WEBVTT

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Hey, hey, everybody. Welcome back to another

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episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. Scott

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Durfey here, joined as always by my better half,

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Deb Durfey. What's up, Deb? Enjoying being here.

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Hi, friends. Well, here we are. I feel like it's

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been a while since we've been together with you

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all. And I guess the reason I'm feeling that

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way is because it has been a while since we've

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been with you all. Many of you have noticed this.

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We started a couple of, we've had them going

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for a while, but we've just started using them

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again. Social media accounts both on Instagram

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and Facebook. They're they're under the name

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of the podcast redeemed through his blood But

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some of you may have noticed that we posted on

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there for Memorial Day that we were taking a

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break for Memorial Day and for those not in the

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US I apologize, but we were taking that break

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for Memorial Day as we celebrate here in the

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US And it was mostly true. We did take a break

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on Memorial Day. We didn't literally break though.

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But shortly thereafter, another post, I posted

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another post on there, kind of revealing the

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real reason that we took that break, Memorial

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Day. So, Deb, I think you've got some explaining

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to do here. What happened, babe? So we were gonna

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actually record on Tuesday, however, I mean after

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Memorial Day. However, on Memorial Day at about

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one o 'clock in the afternoon, we decided to

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enjoy the sunshine and a ride on our motorcycles.

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And so we had kids coming at about five and so

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about... at noon, one o 'clock, we decide to

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get on our bikes and go for a ride. So hang on

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real quick. Many of them are thinking, are you

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kidding me? Deb has a motorcycle? I know people

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think that already. So for those of you who would

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like to see it, go look on those Facebook and

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Instagram accounts. There's actually a photograph

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of Deb on her said motorcycle from a couple years

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ago. So anyway, continue, babe. It's when we

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were in Fish Lake, right? No, it was actually

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up in American Fork Canyon. Oh, there you go.

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Yeah, right there at Pine Hollow. Anyway. We

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do enjoy riding. I actually got my motorcycle

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license, my street license in 2016. Scott talked

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me into taking a class with him, and I ended

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up kicking his butt in the class. Oh, boy. So

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I said, OK, no more riding on back for you, buddy.

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You remember I have the power of that here. You

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better not edit, because that is the truth. So

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I decided I'm not riding Cupcake anymore, I am

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riding, I am driving my own bike and I have been

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for close to a decade, nine years now. So what

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is Cupcake for those of our listening audience

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who don't speak sissy biker talk? That just means

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I don't ride on the back of Scott's bike. I did

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once or twice. I have photos of that. Until you

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said come take this course and I said no every

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single time like I do a lot of things you asked

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me to do. like do a podcast. Yeah. Okay, so anyway,

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you bought this motorcycle and we decide we're

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gonna go on a ride on Monday. Yes. Okay. And

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as we were, we were going down a busy, I mean,

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it's Memorial Day and there are a lot of traffic.

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So we're trying to get out of traffic. So we're

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- Right down University Avenue in Provo. So we're

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stop and go, stop and go, stop and go. Lots of

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traffic. So we get off the main road from all

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the cars and we're following one car and as this

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car is got his blinker on to go left I am ready

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to open up my bike and go like go go go I love

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to hurry I love to ride my bike fast and so I

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could see that Scott didn't have his blinker

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on he wasn't gonna follow that car so I began

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to accelerate and Scott He rides a little bit

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more serene. I'm gonna say grandpa style Just

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more mellow, but I like to drive really fast

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So I accelerate and he kind of swerves to go

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straight Well, I'm a little too close to him

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and I think I'm in a t -bone him So I panic lay

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on my brakes and lay down my bike so and of course

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as soon as it happens, I'm mad I do it. I did

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have a full helmet on, full face helmet and my

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leather boots and I did jump right up. You were

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trying to get me to stay on the ground, but I

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jumped right up and I was like, dang it, I can't

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believe I just did that. Anyways, so. Well, so

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she's downplaying it. It was kind of bad. Her

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helmet's pretty beat up. We thought she had a

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broken foot at least. We thought maybe there

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was some broken ribs also. She spent some time

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at the hospital on Memorial Day. But I didn't

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have an ambulance come get me. No, there was

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no ambulance. Our son came and got us. No broken

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bones as it turns out, which we were all surprised.

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Even our two nurse daughters were surprised by

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that. But anyway, you know, you're not hurt badly.

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And you're hurt a little bit. You're banged up

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a little bit and all of that, but man, it sure

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could have been worse. It definitely could have

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been a whole lot worse. My leather boots took

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a beating. I busted the shifter off on the...

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on my foot, that's why I thought it was broken.

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It did hurt, and I got some good road rash. I

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wouldn't say good, but it's a bad road rash.

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It was a good road rash. You got a lot of it,

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but it's not good. Yeah, interestingly enough,

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I had it. a cute little friend say, did you cry

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when it happened? And I'm like, I'm not a crier.

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When I get hurt, I do not cry. Yeah, you get

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mad. Oh, I get really mad when I get hurt. Yeah.

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I'm not a very. Yeah. Well, I find it interesting,

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almost ironic that, you know, prior to today,

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we've almost exclusively been talking about the

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fall. I made a good fall. As part of the podcast.

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And now you have your own fall experience on

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your Harley Davidson and You know, I guess that's

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just kind of the way. it can sometimes go. Our

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sweet daughter, Jess, wrote a kind of a nice

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tribute to Deb. Which did make me cry. Now, I

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don't cry when I wreck on a motorcycle, but when

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I read this post, I did cry. Well, and I included

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it with the picture on the post for the social

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media. And a couple of you have actually, you

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know, sent well -wishing emails and so on. And

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just a reminder, you can send your emails to

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us at he redeems us at gmail .com. But thanks

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to the few of you who sent well wishes to Deb,

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who read the post, and kind of picked up what

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we were putting down there. But yeah, we want

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to tell you thanks, right, Deb? Absolutely. I

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appreciate that very much. We love our listeners.

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But I wanna read, this is worth reading, because

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there's some lesson in this. I think Jessica,

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she wrote this, our oldest daughter. There was

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some wisdom that comes from this. So here's what

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she wrote, and it's entitled, Joy is Wrapped

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in Leather and Grit. Joy is not always found

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in stillness. Sometimes it roars through the

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wind, wrapped in leather and grit, and rides

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on two wheels. My mother found her joy on a motorcycle,

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the open road, the wind in her hair, the freedom

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of every mile. That was her sacred connection

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of life. But not long ago, she was in a wreck.

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She got banged up, bruised, and forced to slow

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down. She had to do the hardest thing of all,

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receive. rest, let others care for her, offer

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herself the grace she always gives so freely

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to others. But here's the powerful part. She's

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not done. She refuses to let this be the end

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of her joy. She's getting back on the bike because

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her spirit was never meant to be part. Sometimes

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life knocks us down. Sometimes we're scared to

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reconnect with the things that light us up because

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the pain got in the way. But we were never meant

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to give up on joy. We were meant to return to

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it, braver, softer, and stronger than before.

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So if you've fallen, faulted, or forgotten what

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lights you up, this is your reminder, the ride

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isn't over. Pretty incredible. Yeah, that was

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a sweet post. Yeah, she asked if she could put

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it on her page. It was on her page, and I got

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permission to use it, but anyway. A lot of wisdom

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in that sweet young Jess and she loves her mama

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and I love that she put all that in there. So

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you're not selling your bike? No, absolutely

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not. That was the first thing I said to Deb after

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the action is, don't worry, we'll sell them.

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We'll sell them both. And that would have been

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really hard for me. It's been rare that I haven't

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had a motorcycle in my life all my life. And

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anyway, she said, yeah, we're not selling them.

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So. So let's just kind of do a kind of a real

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real very quick recap of where we're at in the

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pod in terms of the podcast And we're pretty

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much in line where with where we are in our Institute

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class at BYU, Deb By the way, awesome kids this

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semester, huh? So great. I can't get over it.

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I can't get over just how Dad gum, amazing these

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kids are. They really are. It's incredible. And

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I know we say that every week, I mean, every

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semester, but the semester's kind of special.

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Anyway, so just to kind of recap where we're

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at, we began the season by talking more in season

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four here. We began the season talking about

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who we are. and whose we are and how identify,

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how identity rather matters. Then we got into

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the fall, the fall of Adam and Eve, the effects

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of the fall of Adam and Eve. We talked about

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the two main deaths or the two main problems

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rather that come by way of the fall, the spiritual

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and physical death. We talked about how even

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the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve are actually

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part of the plan of happiness. making it so that

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maybe we're less critical of ourselves when we

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experience fallen nature, when we experience

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the natural man, when we experience returning

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to things that we said we would never return

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to, and all of those things. And then, you know,

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the main thing, though, that we really, the main

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key doctrinal point, I believe, not just doctrinal

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point, but the life saving or kind of life skill

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point, I think that we talked about as we deal

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with the fall of Adam and Eve, it isn't so much

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about the fall, but how that the fall allows

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us to see who we are and how much we need Jesus

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Christ. I'm glad that we've been talking about

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all that because over the last week or so, I've

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been struggling a little bit. I've been realizing,

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and this is something that I deal with on a fairly

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regular basis. It's not just an occasional thing.

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It comes up on occasion, but Deb, I'm rebellious.

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I shouldn't laugh, but I totally get it. You

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totally get that I'm rebellious. I know that.

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I get that you're rebellious and I get that I'm

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rebellious. You're my wife. Of course you get

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that I'm rebellious. I'm not making any major

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confessions here. I have none to make. Big sins,

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little sins, all of that. But I'm just rebellious.

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By nature. Well, I guess so. I think that some

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of us... or maybe come with varying degrees of

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rebellion just as maybe part of our personality

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traits. And I think that maybe I was one of those

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guys. And maybe by saying that, that's me just

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making excuses for an emotional issue or whatever

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that I can't get under control. I don't really

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know. I just know that I feel rebellious. I keep

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the commandments. I study the scriptures every

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day. for extensive periods of time. I attend

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the temple. I strive really hard to practice

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the principle of charity. I serve other people

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both in the church and in Alcoholics Anonymous

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and in the community and all those others. I

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just try really hard to be a good guy, but I'm

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rebellious. There's just something inside of

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me sometimes that just struggles with conformity.

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that struggles with just being like everybody

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else. I'm 62 years old, Deb, and I want to put

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another tattoo on my body. Well, I want to drive

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fast. I know you do. And go faster than the speed

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limit. I know you do. And I don't know. I have

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no judgment on that. But I don't know that most

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62 year olds think that kind of way. You know

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what I mean? A couple other things. For example,

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I don't love the second hour of church. As a

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matter of fact, I don't like it. And it's not

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that I'm not edified when I stay there. What

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about when you're teaching? Do you like it when

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you're teaching? I especially don't like it when

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I'm teaching. You don't like it, or you do like

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it when you change? I'm actually teasing, and

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I actually do like the second hour of church

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most times. When you stay. And there you go.

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That's the thing. Sometimes it's just easy for

00:14:12.509 --> 00:14:15.049
me to duck out. I was Elder's Quorum president

00:14:15.049 --> 00:14:17.090
recently, and we have a new Elder's Quorum president,

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Morgan. I love the guy, and we're close friends,

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actually, for a lot of reasons. And he actually

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said to me semi -recently, man, we miss you in

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Elder's Quorum. make sure comments, whatever,

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which was just a real loving way of him saying,

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you know what, you rebel, get your rear end where

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it belongs. Anyway, so I deal with these kinds

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of things. I think that maybe we all do. Yeah,

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to one degree or another, for sure. Yeah, so.

00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:50.740
what's this rebellion thing? We talked about

00:14:50.740 --> 00:14:53.259
spiritual death, we talked about physical death,

00:14:53.340 --> 00:14:56.500
we talked about how the effects of Christ's atonement

00:14:56.500 --> 00:14:59.620
are really the answers to the physical and the

00:14:59.620 --> 00:15:01.899
spiritual death, because those are conditions,

00:15:02.159 --> 00:15:05.039
basically. What we were talking about there were

00:15:05.039 --> 00:15:10.250
conditions. What we're talking about today, when

00:15:10.250 --> 00:15:12.889
we're talking about rebellion, it's not really

00:15:12.889 --> 00:15:15.110
a condition, it's more of a choice in a lot of

00:15:15.110 --> 00:15:18.470
cases. And maybe that's how we would differentiate.

00:15:18.769 --> 00:15:21.690
It's not official, I'm not a psychologist or

00:15:21.690 --> 00:15:23.669
any of those other things, but maybe that's how

00:15:23.669 --> 00:15:27.129
we would differentiate between the spiritual

00:15:27.129 --> 00:15:29.509
and the physical death and the effects that come

00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:32.690
from those and the effects that come from our

00:15:32.690 --> 00:15:35.750
rebellion. Well, and I think it's important to

00:15:35.750 --> 00:15:39.350
know that The root of rebellion is exercising

00:15:39.350 --> 00:15:43.289
our agency. Agency. I mean, we have this blessed,

00:15:43.649 --> 00:15:46.429
wonderful thing called agents. Everybody loves

00:15:46.429 --> 00:15:50.629
agency. Everybody thinks agency is a great thing

00:15:50.629 --> 00:15:53.450
for themselves. Yep, until you have adult children

00:15:53.450 --> 00:15:55.370
and then you don't want them to have agency.

00:15:56.379 --> 00:15:59.279
You don't want agency for them. That's right.

00:15:59.519 --> 00:16:01.620
Or grandchildren too, sometimes. Yeah, I kind

00:16:01.620 --> 00:16:04.159
of want to make their choices. I'm sure my parents

00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:06.139
felt the same way. I know they did. Yeah, I get

00:16:06.139 --> 00:16:08.539
that. Yeah. As a matter of fact, I talked to

00:16:08.539 --> 00:16:11.179
my mom and dad about this semi recently. You

00:16:11.179 --> 00:16:12.919
did? Yeah, I asked them, I said, did you guys

00:16:12.919 --> 00:16:15.320
feel the same way? And I think my dad about swallowed

00:16:15.320 --> 00:16:17.659
his bubblegum. He's just like, oh my gosh, Scott,

00:16:18.220 --> 00:16:22.120
of course we all feel this way. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

00:16:22.220 --> 00:16:25.799
agency is a real thing. It allows us to choose,

00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.600
you know, God, it allows us to choose sin. We

00:16:29.600 --> 00:16:32.519
can resist him or we can choose him. It's all

00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:36.559
about agency. That agency is a blessed thing.

00:16:36.940 --> 00:16:41.899
until it's not. Yeah, and I think that the agency,

00:16:42.519 --> 00:16:44.419
I think you hit the nail on the head when you

00:16:44.419 --> 00:16:47.519
said kind of the root of rebellion really is

00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:50.360
agency. For sure. That's really where it comes

00:16:50.360 --> 00:16:54.879
from, is agency. And we know that agency's an

00:16:54.879 --> 00:17:00.700
important part of the plan, but rebellion, that

00:17:00.700 --> 00:17:04.740
seems kind of, and I know that not everybody

00:17:04.740 --> 00:17:09.109
may feel Rebellion. But maybe there's rebellion

00:17:09.109 --> 00:17:12.009
at least a little bit in all of us. Maybe we

00:17:12.009 --> 00:17:14.569
should talk about that at some point. Oh, I definitely,

00:17:14.869 --> 00:17:19.049
I definitely feel like there is rebellion. I

00:17:19.049 --> 00:17:21.890
didn't ever feel like I was a rebel. I didn't

00:17:21.890 --> 00:17:25.650
feel like I deliberately because Here's the number

00:17:25.650 --> 00:17:27.769
one thing is I would compare. Oh, I'm not as

00:17:27.769 --> 00:17:30.289
bad as that person. I don't drive a hundred on

00:17:30.289 --> 00:17:32.710
my motorcycle. I'm just breaking the speed limit

00:17:32.710 --> 00:17:34.789
a little. I mean, I have these justifications

00:17:34.789 --> 00:17:39.109
and these comparisons. So, I mean, it literally

00:17:39.109 --> 00:17:42.750
is one of those things that, you know, you kind

00:17:42.750 --> 00:17:44.690
of have to put the mirror in front of your face

00:17:44.690 --> 00:17:48.609
and take your own inventory and say, gosh, where

00:17:48.609 --> 00:17:52.029
am I rebellious? Whether choosing in or choosing

00:17:52.029 --> 00:17:56.220
out. You know? Yeah. It's been big for me. It's

00:17:56.220 --> 00:17:59.480
been up in my face lately a lot. You know, just

00:17:59.480 --> 00:18:01.799
dealing with my own rebellion. And again, I'm

00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:05.019
a good guy. So I have a question for you. But

00:18:05.019 --> 00:18:07.599
I've been dealing with this rebellion thing.

00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:11.420
On a scale from one to ten, where are you on

00:18:11.420 --> 00:18:15.380
the rebellion scale today? Today? In this very

00:18:15.380 --> 00:18:19.630
moment? Yeah. Well, I know it changes. It's a

00:18:19.630 --> 00:18:24.029
slippery scale. Deb, I feel like I'm on the witness

00:18:24.029 --> 00:18:27.849
stand here. Don't worry, I have my rubber mallet.

00:18:27.930 --> 00:18:31.349
I'm getting pounded in just a second. A scale

00:18:31.349 --> 00:18:34.130
of one to 10, how am I on the rebellion scale

00:18:34.130 --> 00:18:37.109
today? So what, 10 being very rebellious or 10

00:18:37.109 --> 00:18:41.210
being not rebellious? One being not rebellious,

00:18:41.210 --> 00:18:44.250
10 being very rebellious. 10 being very rebellious.

00:18:44.650 --> 00:18:50.609
So I'm probably... Four. Not very rebellious

00:18:50.609 --> 00:18:56.910
today. In some ways. Well, you're sitting here

00:18:56.910 --> 00:18:59.369
recording a podcast talking about Jesus Christ.

00:18:59.369 --> 00:19:04.059
I know, but I'm a natural man. And I have this

00:19:04.059 --> 00:19:07.420
going on. And I don't mean to be flippant about

00:19:07.420 --> 00:19:09.279
it. It's not something I wear like a badge of

00:19:09.279 --> 00:19:11.980
honor because my rebellion isn't all these cute

00:19:11.980 --> 00:19:16.079
things. A lot of my rebellion is dark. A lot

00:19:16.079 --> 00:19:18.960
of my rebellion has to do with inward feelings.

00:19:19.660 --> 00:19:22.160
The way I feel about myself, the way I see myself,

00:19:22.299 --> 00:19:24.559
the way I indict myself for stuff I've done in

00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:29.130
the past still. you know, and all of that. But

00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:31.490
I can tell you this, Deb, I don't know for sure

00:19:31.490 --> 00:19:34.890
where I'm at today, but I do know that when I

00:19:34.890 --> 00:19:36.809
do the things that we've encouraged others to

00:19:36.809 --> 00:19:39.609
do, I know that when I look unto him in every

00:19:39.609 --> 00:19:43.349
thought from Doctrine and Covenant 6, when I

00:19:43.349 --> 00:19:47.769
remember that in Alma 7, that everything that

00:19:47.769 --> 00:19:50.809
he went through as part of his atonement was

00:19:50.809 --> 00:19:53.990
for me so that he would know how to succor me

00:19:53.990 --> 00:19:57.230
in all of my afflictions. in all of my pain and

00:19:57.230 --> 00:19:59.690
all of my suffering and all of my rebellion and

00:19:59.690 --> 00:20:04.029
all of my everything human. And so, you know,

00:20:04.089 --> 00:20:08.950
for me, if I can just somehow possibly remember

00:20:08.950 --> 00:20:13.869
him and just am able to redirect my focus, and

00:20:13.869 --> 00:20:16.730
it's not always easy, I'm gonna be honest. You

00:20:16.730 --> 00:20:20.210
know, we teach Institute II, we have leadership

00:20:20.210 --> 00:20:22.470
callings, you know, I teach gospel doctrine,

00:20:22.670 --> 00:20:24.630
you're the primary president and all this stuff,

00:20:25.150 --> 00:20:29.000
and Deb, I struggle. I'm still carnal, I still

00:20:29.000 --> 00:20:32.799
have alcoholic tendencies, I still have just,

00:20:33.500 --> 00:20:37.839
and sometimes I see myself as being less than

00:20:37.839 --> 00:20:40.140
or different from those around me because of

00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:46.819
these tendencies. But remember Sunday, do you

00:20:46.819 --> 00:20:49.279
remember the sacrament hymn by Chance? I sure

00:20:49.279 --> 00:20:53.049
do. Do you? Yeah, I stand all amazed. Yeah. Absolutely.

00:20:53.309 --> 00:20:55.450
Yeah, so this past Sunday as we were sitting

00:20:55.450 --> 00:20:58.109
in sacrament meeting and it was past Sunday as

00:20:58.109 --> 00:21:01.900
we were sitting there. preparing to partake of

00:21:01.900 --> 00:21:04.579
the sacrament. This has become such a sacred,

00:21:04.579 --> 00:21:08.440
sacred moment of my life each week, Deb. And

00:21:08.440 --> 00:21:11.619
this relates to my rebellion because if I can

00:21:11.619 --> 00:21:15.579
focus on my sacrament experience, if I can focus

00:21:15.579 --> 00:21:18.960
on not just renewing covenants, but realizing

00:21:18.960 --> 00:21:23.279
that I'm making yet again a new covenant to always

00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.200
remember Him. to take his name upon me, to keep

00:21:27.200 --> 00:21:32.940
his commandments and all of those things so that

00:21:32.940 --> 00:21:36.259
I can have his spirit to be with me. You know,

00:21:36.380 --> 00:21:39.819
one thing that we'll explore as we go through

00:21:39.819 --> 00:21:43.059
the podcast is the importance of the Holy Ghost

00:21:43.059 --> 00:21:46.579
in our lives. And I'll mention just now that

00:21:46.579 --> 00:21:49.579
one of the reasons that that is so important

00:21:49.579 --> 00:21:53.440
in our lives is so many of our apostles, and

00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:56.599
we'll get direct quotes in upcoming episodes,

00:21:56.680 --> 00:21:58.920
but so many of our apostles have talked about

00:21:58.920 --> 00:22:02.940
how the Holy Ghost's job is really to be the

00:22:02.940 --> 00:22:05.099
administrator of the atonement of Jesus Christ

00:22:05.099 --> 00:22:08.279
in our lives. And so think about it. It only

00:22:08.279 --> 00:22:12.559
makes sense that if the offset or the answer

00:22:12.559 --> 00:22:14.720
to the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve, which

00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:17.140
are spiritual death, physical death, and everything

00:22:17.140 --> 00:22:21.119
related thereunto. And it's also now has to do

00:22:21.119 --> 00:22:24.079
with rebellion. If all of that, if it was because

00:22:24.079 --> 00:22:27.200
of the atonement of Jesus Christ, that can be

00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.460
the answer to those things, the sacrament experience

00:22:30.460 --> 00:22:34.220
has become so really important to me because

00:22:34.220 --> 00:22:36.359
of that. Yeah, me too. I think we both go through

00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:40.160
Kleenex every week during the sacrament hymn

00:22:40.160 --> 00:22:44.390
and then just communing. sacred, sacred, sacred

00:22:44.390 --> 00:22:49.910
to me. I think this became the most important

00:22:49.910 --> 00:22:53.170
to me, Deb, during the period of time, and there

00:22:53.170 --> 00:22:55.670
were a couple of years there, two, three years

00:22:55.670 --> 00:22:59.509
there, that my membership had been removed. And

00:22:59.509 --> 00:23:03.529
I don't know if you remember, but I remember...

00:23:03.500 --> 00:23:06.839
those moments when I would be in sacrament meeting

00:23:06.839 --> 00:23:09.559
still and I would still be trying to commune

00:23:09.559 --> 00:23:12.460
in the best way I could but not being able to

00:23:12.460 --> 00:23:15.460
partake of the emblems and having that privilege

00:23:15.460 --> 00:23:18.440
removed I was still able to be blessed I still

00:23:18.440 --> 00:23:21.880
felt the effects to a degree of the atonement

00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:25.539
of Jesus Christ because those effects are available

00:23:25.539 --> 00:23:28.720
to all people but I wasn't under covenant relationship

00:23:28.720 --> 00:23:31.019
or that covenant relationship had been paused

00:23:31.019 --> 00:23:36.420
at that moment And I missed it. I felt that void.

00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:40.980
So as dark and as difficult as it can get today,

00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.059
it's nothing in comparison to what it was then.

00:23:44.599 --> 00:23:46.579
Well, and I think you think about that every

00:23:46.579 --> 00:23:48.900
week. I do. I think you think about that every

00:23:48.900 --> 00:23:51.480
week, because I remember the first week that

00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.000
you took partook of the sacrament, and we both

00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:57.700
wept. I remember that very, very vividly. Yeah,

00:23:57.920 --> 00:24:03.410
I do too. I'll never forget it. I'm feeling rebellious

00:24:03.410 --> 00:24:06.509
or when I'm feeling the effects of the fall in

00:24:06.509 --> 00:24:10.890
a particularly extreme fashion, any of them.

00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:13.990
But particularly this week, for me, it's been

00:24:13.990 --> 00:24:18.230
rebellion. I know that if I just focus on him.

00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:22.259
and not me, not my rebellion, but focus on Him.

00:24:22.779 --> 00:24:29.220
I know that Father Lehi actually hit the nail

00:24:29.220 --> 00:24:33.660
on the head here to his son Jacob. And this is

00:24:33.660 --> 00:24:37.359
in 2 Nephi chapter two verse three. And this

00:24:37.359 --> 00:24:39.839
is true for me and it's true for all of us, but

00:24:39.839 --> 00:24:43.700
this is kind of where my focus has been and was.

00:24:44.460 --> 00:24:47.539
this past Sunday. So this is 2 Nephi chapter

00:24:47.539 --> 00:24:51.880
two verse three and he's talking again to Jacob

00:24:51.880 --> 00:24:55.359
and then they're towards about halfway down the

00:24:55.359 --> 00:24:58.279
verse, wherefore I know that thou art redeemed

00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:01.720
because of the righteousness of thy Redeemer.

00:25:03.519 --> 00:25:08.980
That for me is the answer. It's not my righteousness

00:25:08.980 --> 00:25:13.519
anyway. Why do I be critical about me? I need

00:25:13.519 --> 00:25:16.640
to align with his will. I need to do my best

00:25:16.640 --> 00:25:19.299
to keep his commandments. But if I'm feeling

00:25:19.299 --> 00:25:23.079
rebellious, it's not my righteousness. It's his

00:25:23.079 --> 00:25:25.559
righteousness that redeems me. And I just have

00:25:25.559 --> 00:25:27.579
to align with that. And when I do, when I make

00:25:27.579 --> 00:25:29.480
that effort, when I'm cognizant of it, and I

00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:33.420
just make any kind of effort, then I fill the

00:25:33.420 --> 00:25:36.730
spirit. again in my life, typically again in

00:25:36.730 --> 00:25:38.829
my life. Have you ever noticed a little bit of

00:25:38.829 --> 00:25:42.069
effort gets magnified by him? Oh, yeah. I mean,

00:25:42.569 --> 00:25:45.670
I, you know, he does meet us right where we are.

00:25:45.690 --> 00:25:49.210
I love that. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you mean

00:25:49.210 --> 00:25:53.609
exactly? So, you know, sometimes our efforts

00:25:53.609 --> 00:25:56.670
to us feel huge and sometimes they just feel

00:25:56.670 --> 00:26:01.900
like barely a help, you know. Yeah. But. But

00:26:01.900 --> 00:26:04.599
when we turn to Him and when we ask for Him,

00:26:04.680 --> 00:26:08.779
He comes to us. When we cry out to Him, when

00:26:08.779 --> 00:26:13.180
we ask, He meets us in our mess. He meets us

00:26:13.180 --> 00:26:17.519
in our mess. I love that. Well, so we're singing

00:26:17.519 --> 00:26:20.859
the hymn, the sacrament meeting, I stand all

00:26:20.859 --> 00:26:26.369
amazed, and then that second verse comes. I marvel

00:26:26.369 --> 00:26:28.609
that he would descend from his throne to mine

00:26:28.609 --> 00:26:33.589
to rescue a soul so rebellious and proud as mine.

00:26:34.430 --> 00:26:38.769
I'm the rebel. I'm the rebel in that verse. We

00:26:38.769 --> 00:26:48.109
all are. And he not just, it's actually him who

00:26:48.109 --> 00:26:53.049
transforms the rebel. He doesn't just forgive

00:26:53.049 --> 00:26:55.750
the rebellion, he transforms the rebel. Well,

00:26:55.750 --> 00:27:01.029
there you go. Yeah. Yeah. All right, well, maybe

00:27:01.029 --> 00:27:02.930
we should talk about what's rebellion then. Yeah,

00:27:02.930 --> 00:27:07.269
what is rebellion? So in the dictionary, we read

00:27:07.269 --> 00:27:09.890
that rebellion is actually the opposition to

00:27:09.890 --> 00:27:14.569
one in authority. Opposition to one in authority.

00:27:14.970 --> 00:27:19.740
That is me. Any authority. I'm kind of in opposition

00:27:19.740 --> 00:27:21.880
to any authority. That's why you love the second

00:27:21.880 --> 00:27:24.519
hour. That's why you obey the speed limit though

00:27:24.519 --> 00:27:26.960
I'm proud of you there. If you would have had

00:27:26.960 --> 00:27:30.599
as many speeding tickets and license suspensions

00:27:30.599 --> 00:27:32.859
as I have because of those kinds of things, maybe

00:27:32.859 --> 00:27:34.400
you would be too paid. Oh gosh, I better slow

00:27:34.400 --> 00:27:35.720
down. I don't want that in my life. Yeah, I don't

00:27:35.720 --> 00:27:37.839
either. They're expensive. And it happened all

00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:40.259
before we got married, so you didn't have to

00:27:40.259 --> 00:27:44.380
incur that. You incurred plenty of others. Not

00:27:44.380 --> 00:27:46.779
that. That rebellion. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well,

00:27:46.819 --> 00:27:49.579
you know, it's interesting because I was just

00:27:49.579 --> 00:27:55.640
listening to Elder D. Todd Christopherson's conference

00:27:55.640 --> 00:27:59.599
talk from October 2024. And he talks about in

00:27:59.599 --> 00:28:03.539
there about active and passive rebellion. What's

00:28:03.539 --> 00:28:06.940
the title of his talk? Burying Our Weapons of

00:28:06.940 --> 00:28:09.880
Rebellion. So he's actually referring to rebellion

00:28:09.880 --> 00:28:13.539
as like almost a weapon, to weaponize rebellion.

00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:18.440
Yes. It's not a new concept, but think about

00:28:18.440 --> 00:28:20.380
that. It's kind of powerful to think about it.

00:28:20.500 --> 00:28:23.440
But I remember when we very first started studying

00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:29.109
the weapons of rebellion. types of rebellion

00:28:29.109 --> 00:28:32.809
that he refers to in this talk. One is active

00:28:32.809 --> 00:28:36.150
rebellion, which is open disobedience, opposition

00:28:36.150 --> 00:28:39.109
to God's plan, just deliberately making that

00:28:39.109 --> 00:28:41.450
choice. And then passive rebellion. And this

00:28:41.450 --> 00:28:44.170
was, I thought so interesting, was spiritual

00:28:44.170 --> 00:28:47.349
apathy, ignoring God's will. You know, when you

00:28:47.349 --> 00:28:48.930
get those promptings, and I'm going to tell on

00:28:48.930 --> 00:28:51.490
myself right now, because before we went on that

00:28:51.490 --> 00:28:55.369
Memorial Day ride, I had a feeling. you shouldn't

00:28:55.369 --> 00:28:58.170
go on a motorcycle ride. And I argued with the

00:28:58.170 --> 00:29:02.109
spirit clearly. And so, you know, passive rebellion

00:29:02.109 --> 00:29:07.230
is I got this, I'm fine. So I mean, that was

00:29:07.230 --> 00:29:11.009
a big aha for me is the, you know, passive rebellion,

00:29:11.410 --> 00:29:15.490
because I don't consider myself until I really

00:29:15.490 --> 00:29:17.650
take my personal inventory, but I don't say,

00:29:17.829 --> 00:29:21.069
yes, I'm rebellious, but really I am. I mean,

00:29:21.069 --> 00:29:24.329
I have rebellion in me. I mean, you know, passive

00:29:24.329 --> 00:29:28.210
and active. I think it's interesting how you

00:29:28.210 --> 00:29:31.910
referred to, and I know you didn't come up with

00:29:31.910 --> 00:29:34.190
this idea, it's from the Book of Mormon, but

00:29:34.190 --> 00:29:37.069
I think it's interesting that when we talk about

00:29:37.069 --> 00:29:40.509
rebellion, that oftentimes we just automatically

00:29:40.509 --> 00:29:44.490
go to that phrase weapons of rebellion and Elder

00:29:44.490 --> 00:29:47.400
Christopherson's talk. Weapons of Rebellion.

00:29:47.660 --> 00:29:51.119
There's a whole lesson that we do in Institute

00:29:51.119 --> 00:29:53.220
from the book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness

00:29:53.220 --> 00:29:57.319
by Elder Anderson, Weapons of Rebellion. Which

00:29:57.319 --> 00:29:59.400
you taught last week. Right. While I was healing.

00:29:59.859 --> 00:30:03.000
Yes, while you were beginning the healing process,

00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:06.079
right? I think that it's probably important that

00:30:06.079 --> 00:30:09.339
we all understand that this is not necessarily

00:30:09.339 --> 00:30:14.369
something that... though we should strive, as

00:30:14.369 --> 00:30:17.769
we should always strive to overcome our imperfections,

00:30:17.890 --> 00:30:21.329
our rebellions, our effects of the false spiritual

00:30:21.329 --> 00:30:23.589
and physical death, though we should always be

00:30:23.589 --> 00:30:26.849
striving to overcome those things, I think that

00:30:26.849 --> 00:30:30.109
sometimes we use our rebellions as a deeper indictment

00:30:30.109 --> 00:30:32.190
towards ourselves. Does that make any sense?

00:30:33.250 --> 00:30:38.170
So in other words, if it's - Casualness, avoidance,

00:30:38.750 --> 00:30:41.990
spiritual indifferences, maybe sins of all -

00:30:41.609 --> 00:30:46.349
Yeah. Yeah. Any of those. And so if I have those

00:30:46.349 --> 00:30:49.730
and I see it as rebellion, then I can indict

00:30:49.730 --> 00:30:53.089
myself and I can take it more seriously against

00:30:53.089 --> 00:30:56.509
myself than if it was just something that maybe

00:30:56.509 --> 00:30:59.829
I forgot or maybe I didn't mean to, you know,

00:30:59.829 --> 00:31:03.009
maybe sometimes I see rebellion as being intentional.

00:31:03.509 --> 00:31:06.549
Right. And if it's not intentional, it's not

00:31:06.549 --> 00:31:09.009
rebellion, but that's not necessarily the case

00:31:09.009 --> 00:31:11.710
according to Elder Christopherson. That's not

00:31:11.710 --> 00:31:13.650
necessarily the case, because you just said something

00:31:13.650 --> 00:31:16.769
about passive rebellion. That's an interesting

00:31:16.769 --> 00:31:19.430
concept, so can you expand on that a little bit?

00:31:19.750 --> 00:31:23.609
In his talk, he says, perhaps the more insidious

00:31:23.609 --> 00:31:27.450
form of rebellion against God is the passive

00:31:27.450 --> 00:31:31.509
version, ignoring his will in our lives. Many

00:31:31.509 --> 00:31:35.069
who would never consider active rebellion may

00:31:35.069 --> 00:31:38.960
still oppose the will and the word of God by

00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.779
pursuing their own path without regarding to

00:31:42.779 --> 00:31:46.759
divine direction. I am 100 % guilty of this."

00:31:46.759 --> 00:31:48.779
And he goes on to say, it reminds him of the

00:31:48.779 --> 00:31:51.940
song from Frank Sinatra, I Did It My Way. How

00:31:51.940 --> 00:31:55.200
many times have we done that? I'll do it my way.

00:31:55.299 --> 00:31:57.940
I got this. Some of my greatest thinking got

00:31:57.940 --> 00:32:02.349
me in the biggest messes of my life. Because,

00:32:02.589 --> 00:32:06.309
you know, if you really think about how the Savior

00:32:06.309 --> 00:32:09.910
lived his life, he literally was always, not

00:32:09.910 --> 00:32:12.089
my will, but thine be done. Not my will. What

00:32:12.089 --> 00:32:14.109
would my Father have me do? What would my Father

00:32:14.109 --> 00:32:16.869
have me do? And what a perfect example to do

00:32:16.869 --> 00:32:24.690
that. And I'm striving, trying, to allow God

00:32:24.690 --> 00:32:28.230
to be the director of my life. That's one of

00:32:28.230 --> 00:32:30.609
the things that I think that we really need to

00:32:30.609 --> 00:32:34.730
talk about is that this being rebellious is actually

00:32:34.730 --> 00:32:40.369
part of being a natural man, right? So for example,

00:32:40.490 --> 00:32:42.809
and we'll just read that right out of Mosiah

00:32:42.809 --> 00:32:45.230
chapter three, verse 19, for the natural man

00:32:45.230 --> 00:32:47.450
is an enemy to God and has been from the fall

00:32:47.450 --> 00:32:50.829
of Adam and will be for ever and ever unless

00:32:50.829 --> 00:32:54.049
he yields to the enticings of the Holy Spirit

00:32:54.049 --> 00:32:56.109
and putteth off the natural man and becomeeth

00:32:56.109 --> 00:32:59.440
the saint. How? Through the atonement of Christ

00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.960
the Lord and becomeeth as a child submissive,

00:33:02.079 --> 00:33:04.240
meek, humble, patient, full of love, willing

00:33:04.240 --> 00:33:07.519
to submit to all things which the Lord seeth

00:33:07.519 --> 00:33:10.039
fit to inflict upon him even as a child does

00:33:10.039 --> 00:33:14.019
submit to his father. So we're all natural men.

00:33:14.839 --> 00:33:18.000
We're all, every single one of us are natural

00:33:18.000 --> 00:33:19.859
men. He learned about that when we were talking

00:33:19.859 --> 00:33:24.680
about the fall. We're all fallen. And in Alma

00:33:24.680 --> 00:33:29.119
42, I think we can use this scripture as kind

00:33:29.119 --> 00:33:32.160
of an exclamation point on the last. So this

00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:36.420
is in Alma chapter 42 verse 10. Therefore, as

00:33:36.420 --> 00:33:40.220
they had become carnal, sensual, and devilish,

00:33:40.240 --> 00:33:44.019
by nature this probationary state became a state

00:33:44.019 --> 00:33:46.880
for them to prepare. It became a preparatory

00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:52.279
state. So talking about mortal life, right? We

00:33:52.279 --> 00:33:56.269
became carnal, sensual, and devilish by nature.

00:33:57.049 --> 00:34:03.529
So it's in our human nature to be fallen, rebellious,

00:34:03.869 --> 00:34:08.989
carnal, devilish, all that, right? But here's

00:34:08.989 --> 00:34:13.610
the anecdote, sweetheart. Here's the, kind of,

00:34:13.710 --> 00:34:17.130
not kind of, here's definitely the answer to.

00:34:17.210 --> 00:34:20.510
our rebellion and we have a couple of different

00:34:20.510 --> 00:34:22.929
examples in scripture but my favorite maybe my

00:34:22.929 --> 00:34:27.809
favorite example in scripture is right here in

00:34:27.809 --> 00:34:31.510
Alma chapter 23 now we all remember Ammon King

00:34:31.510 --> 00:34:34.809
Lamoni and the whole story There, I know you

00:34:34.809 --> 00:34:36.630
have some great insights around that too, and

00:34:36.630 --> 00:34:39.030
I wanna hear those, Deb, but right here in Alma

00:34:39.030 --> 00:34:42.590
chapter 23 verse six, and as sure as the Lord

00:34:42.590 --> 00:34:45.849
liveth, so sure as many as believed, or as many

00:34:45.849 --> 00:34:47.909
as were brought to the knowledge of the truth

00:34:47.909 --> 00:34:49.630
through the preaching of Ammon and his brother

00:34:49.630 --> 00:34:51.590
and according to the spirit of revelation and

00:34:51.590 --> 00:34:55.530
the prophecy and the power of God, working miracles

00:34:55.530 --> 00:34:58.469
in them, yea, I say unto you as the Lord liveth,

00:34:58.650 --> 00:35:02.059
as many as the Lamanites. as believed in their

00:35:02.059 --> 00:35:05.820
preaching and were converted unto the Lord, never

00:35:05.820 --> 00:35:10.260
did fall away. And then verse seven, for they

00:35:10.260 --> 00:35:14.460
became a righteous people, for they did lay down

00:35:14.460 --> 00:35:19.519
their weapons of rebellion. So, you know, they

00:35:19.519 --> 00:35:22.000
had these miracles, they became converted unto

00:35:22.000 --> 00:35:24.360
the Lord, and then they laid down their weapons

00:35:24.360 --> 00:35:27.159
of rebellion, that they did not fight against

00:35:27.159 --> 00:35:29.139
God anymore, neither against their brethren.

00:35:29.400 --> 00:35:31.380
Do you think they kind of had that Jesus Christ

00:35:31.380 --> 00:35:33.960
moment? They're like, okay, what would thou have

00:35:33.960 --> 00:35:38.000
me do? Exactly. Now these were they who were

00:35:38.000 --> 00:35:41.360
converted under the Lord. It's interesting, that

00:35:41.360 --> 00:35:45.010
word comes up a couple of times, converted. unto

00:35:45.010 --> 00:35:49.369
the Lord. To me, this is the key. This is absolutely

00:35:49.369 --> 00:35:51.610
the key. This is the key to me that when I'm

00:35:51.610 --> 00:35:54.230
partaking of the sacrament, this is the feeling,

00:35:54.650 --> 00:35:57.530
this is the experience that I'm having is that

00:35:57.530 --> 00:36:01.809
conversion experience. To convert something means

00:36:01.809 --> 00:36:04.309
to change it. Yeah, and I think that's the biggest

00:36:04.309 --> 00:36:07.170
piece is that change, that change of heart. When

00:36:07.170 --> 00:36:11.210
you take... that willingness and to go, okay,

00:36:11.269 --> 00:36:13.570
God, I'm powerless. I'm going to give you all

00:36:13.570 --> 00:36:18.230
my tricks and all my weapons and all my rebellions

00:36:18.230 --> 00:36:22.590
and I'm going to let you break me up and transform

00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:26.849
me and change me into who I am meant to be. I

00:36:26.849 --> 00:36:29.369
love that. I love that. And I think it's important

00:36:29.369 --> 00:36:33.320
to remember the miracles. in that too because

00:36:33.320 --> 00:36:36.119
we have a prophet that said seek and expect miracles

00:36:36.119 --> 00:36:39.000
because the power of God working miracles in

00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.659
them they weren't watching Ammon's miracles they

00:36:41.659 --> 00:36:44.380
were they were allowing though God to work those

00:36:44.380 --> 00:36:46.820
miracles in their own lives and I think that's

00:36:46.820 --> 00:36:52.400
so powerful and all in in verse 13 I think there's

00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.980
more in there as well. Do you want to read 13?

00:36:55.000 --> 00:36:58.099
Yeah, go ahead. And these are they that laid

00:36:58.099 --> 00:37:00.900
down their weapons of rebellion, yea, all their

00:37:00.900 --> 00:37:04.599
weapons of war. I think it's important to remember

00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:07.179
laying down their weapons and laying down their

00:37:07.179 --> 00:37:10.380
rebellion, the weapons of rebellion. I love that.

00:37:10.380 --> 00:37:16.889
I love that piece. Also in Alma 2419, let's go

00:37:16.889 --> 00:37:19.630
there just quickly. This little scripture chain's

00:37:19.630 --> 00:37:21.550
kind of an important scripture chain because

00:37:21.550 --> 00:37:24.750
it helps us A, see that we're carnal, that it's

00:37:24.750 --> 00:37:26.750
part of the plan, that it's part of our nature.

00:37:28.539 --> 00:37:31.340
to that through conversion or through change

00:37:31.340 --> 00:37:34.780
that can only come in and through Jesus Christ.

00:37:34.900 --> 00:37:36.800
So we're not changed. We don't change ourselves.

00:37:36.980 --> 00:37:40.239
We're changed or converted by and through him.

00:37:40.719 --> 00:37:42.679
That's why I always say conversion is always

00:37:42.679 --> 00:37:45.099
more important than testimony. Testimony is important

00:37:45.099 --> 00:37:47.300
because it feeds our conversion, but our conversion

00:37:47.300 --> 00:37:51.329
is what... happens when we apply the atoning

00:37:51.329 --> 00:37:53.510
blood of Jesus Christ into our lives is that

00:37:53.510 --> 00:37:56.650
conversion. So this is Alma 24, 19. It talks

00:37:56.650 --> 00:37:59.489
about, okay, now that they're converted, where

00:37:59.489 --> 00:38:02.050
does the conversion take them? And thus we see.

00:38:02.469 --> 00:38:06.349
I love it when we read, and thus we see in scripture.

00:38:07.150 --> 00:38:09.230
That means that there's been something taught

00:38:09.230 --> 00:38:11.809
prior to that, okay? And maybe it was the miracles

00:38:11.809 --> 00:38:13.969
that they got to see. Well, and it is. I mean,

00:38:14.010 --> 00:38:16.909
it's everything that we just read. And thus we

00:38:16.909 --> 00:38:19.670
see when these Lamanites, were brought to believe

00:38:19.670 --> 00:38:23.050
and to know the truth, they were firm and would

00:38:23.050 --> 00:38:25.449
suffer even into death rather than commit sin.

00:38:25.929 --> 00:38:28.849
And thus we see that they buried their weapons

00:38:28.849 --> 00:38:33.590
of peace or they buried the weapons of war for

00:38:33.590 --> 00:38:36.929
peace. Yeah, when it puts it that way, it's like,

00:38:37.030 --> 00:38:40.769
okay, I'm willing in this moment. You put it

00:38:40.769 --> 00:38:43.010
like that. I want peace. Yeah, of course. Who

00:38:43.010 --> 00:38:47.929
doesn't want peace? Yeah, I say I do and most

00:38:47.929 --> 00:38:50.610
of the time I do but there are times when obviously

00:38:50.610 --> 00:38:54.090
I don't Because you know, we all have weapons

00:38:54.090 --> 00:38:57.780
of rebellion For sure. And I'll expose some of

00:38:57.780 --> 00:38:59.760
mine. I think I already have, but I'll expose

00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:01.820
some of mine in a minute. But you know, last

00:39:01.820 --> 00:39:04.739
week we taught this very lesson, this very, very

00:39:04.739 --> 00:39:09.260
lesson in Institute. I said we. You weren't there.

00:39:09.360 --> 00:39:12.440
You were home with your leg up and an ice pack

00:39:12.440 --> 00:39:17.360
on it. Red light therapy. We talked about, and

00:39:17.360 --> 00:39:19.880
I think this is an important exercise, an invitation

00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:21.960
that we should extend to all of us. Deb, you

00:39:21.960 --> 00:39:25.239
know this. You've been around and experienced

00:39:25.239 --> 00:39:27.440
in the rooms of recovery for even longer than

00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:31.059
I have, but one of the things that we do there

00:39:31.059 --> 00:39:35.039
as kind of a maintenance step is step 10. Step

00:39:35.039 --> 00:39:38.480
10 is continue to take personal inventory and

00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.869
when we were wrong, promptly admitted it. And

00:39:41.869 --> 00:39:44.369
that personal inventory isn't just to sit down

00:39:44.369 --> 00:39:46.289
and think about things, you know, most of the

00:39:46.289 --> 00:39:49.250
time my sponsor has me and I have the guys that

00:39:49.250 --> 00:39:52.369
I work with, you know, kind of do a personal

00:39:52.369 --> 00:39:54.369
inventory written out. I have a little book over

00:39:54.369 --> 00:39:56.690
there on my desk that's my personal inventory

00:39:56.690 --> 00:40:01.079
book. And in it, if I open it up, I would be

00:40:01.079 --> 00:40:04.019
able to identify many weapons of rebellion. And

00:40:04.019 --> 00:40:07.059
so maybe our invitation to each of us is to maybe

00:40:07.059 --> 00:40:11.219
do just a little prayerful, silent, quiet, personal

00:40:11.219 --> 00:40:13.659
inventory about what our weapons of rebellion

00:40:13.659 --> 00:40:16.500
are, ask Heavenly Father to help reveal some

00:40:16.500 --> 00:40:19.159
of them to us. And maybe we can talk about what

00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:21.480
some of them may look like. So our Institute

00:40:21.480 --> 00:40:23.719
students last week, I asked them, what are some

00:40:23.719 --> 00:40:26.630
of your weapons of rebellion? Here are some of

00:40:26.630 --> 00:40:28.670
the ones that were brought up. Do you wanna read

00:40:28.670 --> 00:40:31.429
a couple of those? Yeah, I think they're interesting

00:40:31.429 --> 00:40:34.210
and they're different every semester too. Sloth,

00:40:34.829 --> 00:40:39.949
anger, labels. Labels, okay, what about that?

00:40:40.090 --> 00:40:44.650
What about, so sloth. Laziness, I guess, we could

00:40:44.650 --> 00:40:47.769
use another word for sloth. We could also say

00:40:47.769 --> 00:40:52.190
maybe procrastination or whatever. Anger, I mean,

00:40:52.349 --> 00:40:55.630
that's a big one. Obvious, probably weapon of

00:40:55.630 --> 00:40:59.389
rebellion. Labels? Yeah. I think that's a form

00:40:59.389 --> 00:41:02.869
of judgment. Maybe better than, worse than, less

00:41:02.869 --> 00:41:06.250
than. If I have a label, is that a weapon of

00:41:06.250 --> 00:41:08.789
rebellion? I think it can be. I agree. I think

00:41:08.789 --> 00:41:11.889
it definitely can be. Depending on why you're

00:41:11.889 --> 00:41:14.889
using a label. Because I love the label of being

00:41:14.889 --> 00:41:21.010
a mom. But there are definitely labels like fat,

00:41:21.150 --> 00:41:25.269
short, big, tall. Well there are even labels

00:41:25.269 --> 00:41:28.590
that we could use as weapons of rebellion that

00:41:28.590 --> 00:41:32.230
may seem benign. For example, I refer to myself

00:41:32.230 --> 00:41:35.530
as a recovering alcoholic. Could I use that as

00:41:35.530 --> 00:41:39.969
a weapon of rebellion? Sure could. Probably have,

00:41:40.570 --> 00:41:44.050
you know, if I was honest. Okay, so let's explore

00:41:44.050 --> 00:41:46.449
that. How would I use that as a weapon of rebellion,

00:41:46.769 --> 00:41:49.570
for example? A justification, for sure. A justification

00:41:49.570 --> 00:41:52.409
for what? For being who you are, doing what you

00:41:52.409 --> 00:41:54.789
do, saying what you say. Okay, maybe having an

00:41:54.789 --> 00:41:57.110
appropriate... Maybe having desires like you

00:41:57.110 --> 00:42:00.050
have. Okay. Like, I mean, now you're making me

00:42:00.050 --> 00:42:05.630
judge you. You're asking me how you. Who better

00:42:05.630 --> 00:42:08.630
to judge me than you though, right? That's not

00:42:08.630 --> 00:42:11.670
fair. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, labels, the other,

00:42:11.849 --> 00:42:14.070
I mean, some of these other ones are selective

00:42:14.070 --> 00:42:17.329
discipleship. I think that is so interesting

00:42:17.329 --> 00:42:19.530
because there are certain things that we want

00:42:19.530 --> 00:42:22.210
to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and there are

00:42:22.210 --> 00:42:25.409
certain things it's like, not yet. Dishonesty,

00:42:25.829 --> 00:42:29.219
comparison and differences. Fear and pride are

00:42:29.219 --> 00:42:32.440
definitely the number ones for I think the human

00:42:32.440 --> 00:42:36.400
race, and maybe I'll just say me, and modified

00:42:36.400 --> 00:42:38.599
obedience. Modified obedience, I thought that

00:42:38.599 --> 00:42:42.480
was really interesting. What is modified obedience?

00:42:42.940 --> 00:42:47.000
Well, you know, one of the big ones is why is

00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:49.719
it okay for us to drink Red Bulls and not coffee?

00:42:50.179 --> 00:42:54.619
That modified obedience is a big one. Or, you

00:42:54.619 --> 00:42:58.510
know, the... you know, tuck in a garment so it'll

00:42:58.510 --> 00:43:02.369
fit your style or whatever. So maybe modified

00:43:02.369 --> 00:43:06.150
obedience is an issue that I deal with in my

00:43:06.150 --> 00:43:10.090
rebellion, because as soon as you say that about

00:43:10.090 --> 00:43:13.070
coffee and Red Bull, for example, I'm like, yeah.

00:43:13.809 --> 00:43:15.989
Yeah, I know, and you're not alone. You know

00:43:15.989 --> 00:43:18.230
what I mean? You are not alone. And I'm being

00:43:18.230 --> 00:43:19.929
sincere in that. I hear this all the time. I

00:43:19.929 --> 00:43:22.590
hear it all the time, because it's way worse

00:43:22.590 --> 00:43:28.489
for you. And it indeed is. For sure. I mean,

00:43:28.789 --> 00:43:32.829
I just think it's so interesting that every semester

00:43:32.829 --> 00:43:34.869
they come up with a different lesson. I remember

00:43:34.869 --> 00:43:38.030
gaming came up in one semester. How could gaming

00:43:38.030 --> 00:43:40.389
be a weapon of rebellion? Well, I think it's

00:43:40.389 --> 00:43:42.690
a distraction. Yeah, so how could a distraction

00:43:42.690 --> 00:43:45.269
be a weapon of rebellion? Well, and they even

00:43:45.269 --> 00:43:49.329
said their phones. Oh, I 100 % am guilty of that.

00:43:49.489 --> 00:43:51.329
I mean, when I go in to read my scripture study,

00:43:51.449 --> 00:43:54.210
I listen to a... podcast and follow along. And

00:43:54.210 --> 00:43:56.849
sometimes I get distracted on what pops up on

00:43:56.849 --> 00:44:00.530
my phone before I get to the podcast. So yes,

00:44:00.630 --> 00:44:02.630
phones can definitely be distraction. And before

00:44:02.630 --> 00:44:06.190
you know it, you've wasted 30 minutes of time

00:44:06.190 --> 00:44:10.869
being distracted. Whether it's your social media,

00:44:11.070 --> 00:44:15.210
whether it's a game you play, I don't know, but

00:44:15.210 --> 00:44:20.210
it's 100%. Any of it, all of it. Yes. Any of

00:44:20.210 --> 00:44:25.639
it and all of it. We've identified some that

00:44:25.639 --> 00:44:29.159
were identified by our students at Institute.

00:44:29.179 --> 00:44:32.360
They're so amazing. Last week, these Weapons

00:44:32.360 --> 00:44:37.000
of Rebellion. Over the many semesters now, and

00:44:37.000 --> 00:44:38.739
I don't know how many it is, over the last five

00:44:38.739 --> 00:44:41.519
years as we've been teaching Institute, Deb,

00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:44.360
and basically the same class each time with a

00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:47.980
couple of exceptions. But either way, even then,

00:44:48.139 --> 00:44:51.820
we would always teach a class on Weapons of Rebellion.

00:44:52.239 --> 00:44:54.719
And I noticed, and I've kind of... I've kind

00:44:54.719 --> 00:44:57.619
of taken the weapons of rebellion that we've

00:44:57.619 --> 00:45:00.820
talked about over the years and categorized them

00:45:00.820 --> 00:45:05.159
into one, two, three, eight different categories.

00:45:06.019 --> 00:45:08.460
And so for example, I'll just mention the categories

00:45:08.460 --> 00:45:11.239
at a high level. Maybe we can pick one or two

00:45:11.239 --> 00:45:14.539
from each of these. Again, if you're interested

00:45:14.539 --> 00:45:18.960
in this list. send us an email and I'll send

00:45:18.960 --> 00:45:20.780
you a copy of it. Just put in there that you

00:45:20.780 --> 00:45:23.679
would like a copy of the potential weapons of

00:45:23.679 --> 00:45:25.800
rebellion and I'll send it to you. It's a good

00:45:25.800 --> 00:45:30.300
self inventory. Yeah, it's a personal inventory.

00:45:30.440 --> 00:45:33.119
Yeah, it just kind of primes the pump. You know,

00:45:33.219 --> 00:45:35.260
kind of just gives you some food for thought.

00:45:35.500 --> 00:45:37.760
And as you're reading it, you'll expand it. And

00:45:37.760 --> 00:45:39.860
as you do, I'm gonna ask you to send it back

00:45:39.860 --> 00:45:42.960
with your expansion. added so the first one that

00:45:42.960 --> 00:45:46.280
I and in no particular order but attitudes and

00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:48.579
dispositions you know there can be weapons of

00:45:48.579 --> 00:45:51.380
rebellions that fall under the category attitudes

00:45:51.380 --> 00:45:55.440
and dispositions and you mentioned pride you

00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.099
know refusing help needing to be right all the

00:45:58.099 --> 00:46:02.019
time or even what you call them low -end pride

00:46:02.019 --> 00:46:07.369
not good enough and not accepting praise or gratitude,

00:46:08.289 --> 00:46:10.929
you know? Oh no, no. Because I remember when

00:46:10.929 --> 00:46:13.750
somebody told me, my sponsor actually, when she

00:46:13.750 --> 00:46:16.469
told me, you know, you never heard the Savior,

00:46:16.550 --> 00:46:18.789
when somebody gave him a compliment, say, oh

00:46:18.789 --> 00:46:22.269
no, no, no. You did such an amazing job healing

00:46:22.269 --> 00:46:25.710
this person. Oh no, no, no. That's low end pride.

00:46:25.929 --> 00:46:29.550
He did give credit to the Father. Always, always

00:46:29.550 --> 00:46:32.079
gave credit to the Father. Entitlement. That's

00:46:32.079 --> 00:46:35.039
another one that, you know, I'm owed, I'm owed

00:46:35.039 --> 00:46:37.320
this, I'm owed that. Why am I owed this or I'm

00:46:37.320 --> 00:46:39.179
owed that? I don't know, but I'm owed this or

00:46:39.179 --> 00:46:41.460
I'm owed that. Again, falling under attitudes

00:46:41.460 --> 00:46:44.539
and dispositions. How about cynicism or sarcasm

00:46:44.539 --> 00:46:47.199
towards sacred things or just cynicism and sarcasm

00:46:47.199 --> 00:46:50.579
in general? You know, we know sarcastic people

00:46:50.579 --> 00:46:54.480
and sometimes those sarcasms can be difficult

00:46:54.480 --> 00:46:57.619
and distracting from the spirit and those things

00:46:57.619 --> 00:47:00.460
can definitely be hurtful and definitely be used

00:47:00.460 --> 00:47:05.940
as a weapon. and they definitely create distance

00:47:05.940 --> 00:47:09.340
between us and God. You see any others on there

00:47:09.340 --> 00:47:13.260
that? Well, I'm going to the next category, which

00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:15.320
is spiritual apathy and avoidance, and the one

00:47:15.320 --> 00:47:19.219
on this sheet that jumped out at me is ignoring

00:47:19.219 --> 00:47:21.059
promptings of the Holy Ghost, because I already

00:47:21.059 --> 00:47:24.699
shared that piece of how I had that feeling to

00:47:24.699 --> 00:47:27.699
not go on a ride on Memorial Day, but I argued.

00:47:28.000 --> 00:47:29.980
I've got a couple of real, and I'm not going

00:47:29.980 --> 00:47:32.179
to share them, but I've got a couple of really

00:47:32.179 --> 00:47:34.900
gut wrenching experiences about ignoring the

00:47:34.900 --> 00:47:36.320
promptings of the Holy Ghost. Yeah, it's not.

00:47:36.639 --> 00:47:39.599
It's not. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is rebellion.

00:47:39.639 --> 00:47:43.760
Yeah. You know, checking the boss box. Oh, so

00:47:43.760 --> 00:47:48.119
like religiosity kind of checking the box mentality.

00:47:48.460 --> 00:47:50.539
Yeah. Like I did that. I said my prayers. I read

00:47:50.539 --> 00:47:52.519
my scriptures. Yeah. I'm still not filling the

00:47:52.519 --> 00:47:54.539
scripture or filling the spirit. Yeah. Yeah.

00:47:54.539 --> 00:47:57.369
Yeah. Yeah. or going to church for the sake of

00:47:57.369 --> 00:48:00.730
going to church. We haven't seen you in church

00:48:00.730 --> 00:48:02.690
lately. We haven't seen you in church. I used

00:48:02.690 --> 00:48:08.670
to hear that, that maybe it would be, we miss

00:48:08.670 --> 00:48:14.010
you in our worship or whatever. But yeah, okay,

00:48:14.269 --> 00:48:18.139
what else? Gosh, all of these I could probably

00:48:18.139 --> 00:48:22.019
go on. Next to the next category is destructive

00:48:22.019 --> 00:48:24.800
behaviors and patterns. Destructive behaviors

00:48:24.800 --> 00:48:27.239
and patterns. This has been a big one for me.

00:48:27.719 --> 00:48:31.039
Behaviors and patterns has been a struggle throughout

00:48:31.039 --> 00:48:35.199
my life. Addictions, you know, and you can throw

00:48:35.199 --> 00:48:37.440
in others. We've just categorized a few here

00:48:37.440 --> 00:48:40.920
of addiction to pornography, alcohol, drugs,

00:48:41.500 --> 00:48:46.510
even social media. addiction to drama, addiction

00:48:46.510 --> 00:48:49.050
to having to be right, addiction to having to

00:48:49.050 --> 00:48:53.150
be the center of attention. Yeah, exactly. So

00:48:53.150 --> 00:48:58.449
many of those things. How about anger? Yep, unresolved

00:48:58.449 --> 00:49:02.570
conflict. Resentment, I think, is one that could

00:49:02.570 --> 00:49:06.170
be on there as well. I think in season one, episode

00:49:06.170 --> 00:49:09.489
three or something along those lines, David and

00:49:09.489 --> 00:49:14.300
I did a whole episode on fear and anger. or fear

00:49:14.300 --> 00:49:17.920
and pride rather. And I shared a story in there

00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:22.119
about fear for me and how I really discovered

00:49:22.119 --> 00:49:25.059
that fear wasn't really fear for me. I mean,

00:49:25.400 --> 00:49:27.579
anger wasn't really anger for me. It was more

00:49:27.579 --> 00:49:33.880
about fear. And fear really can be a weapon of

00:49:33.880 --> 00:49:38.300
rebellion for me in a big, big way. What else

00:49:38.300 --> 00:49:40.280
you see under destructive behavior? Dishonesty,

00:49:40.699 --> 00:49:44.380
sexual immorality, passive aggressiveness, manipulative

00:49:44.380 --> 00:49:48.380
behavior, emotional withdrawal, uncontrolled

00:49:48.380 --> 00:49:53.340
spending. Oh dear, that hit me in the pocket.

00:49:54.820 --> 00:49:58.860
Or greed. Gossip, slander. Yeah, there's. How

00:49:58.860 --> 00:50:00.900
about, this is a big one in our country right

00:50:00.900 --> 00:50:03.159
now. And I think it's maybe all over the world,

00:50:03.159 --> 00:50:06.059
but it's big right here in the United States

00:50:06.059 --> 00:50:10.420
of America. Division. Yeah, that's hard. Division.

00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:14.039
It's us against them. It's even us against them

00:50:14.039 --> 00:50:18.440
within us, you know? What's the next? The next

00:50:18.440 --> 00:50:22.059
one is misusing God -given gifts. So career obsession,

00:50:22.539 --> 00:50:26.809
maybe putting off your family. worshipping beauty,

00:50:27.050 --> 00:50:30.789
fitness, or body image, social media obsession,

00:50:31.389 --> 00:50:34.929
or comparison -driven identity, using humor.

00:50:34.929 --> 00:50:38.409
What's a comparison -driven identity? I think,

00:50:39.130 --> 00:50:43.130
well, I mean, my judgment on this, or my definition

00:50:43.130 --> 00:50:47.010
on this is my own judgment. I mean, I would say,

00:50:47.110 --> 00:50:49.710
because it's my own perception, but comparison

00:50:49.710 --> 00:50:52.730
identity is seeing, you know, all these people

00:50:52.730 --> 00:50:54.989
that are doing things that and I'm feeling the,

00:50:54.989 --> 00:50:57.750
they call it FOMO, feeling left out, fear of

00:50:57.750 --> 00:51:01.989
missing out. But seeing that they get to do this

00:51:01.989 --> 00:51:04.269
and they're going there and I'm comparing my

00:51:04.269 --> 00:51:07.829
life to them or my experiences to them or whatever.

00:51:08.289 --> 00:51:12.429
I think that's been intensified immensely on

00:51:12.429 --> 00:51:14.769
social media. I think about when I was in, you

00:51:14.769 --> 00:51:16.630
know, junior high and high school when you were

00:51:16.630 --> 00:51:20.449
in those, you know, influential ages. And man,

00:51:20.449 --> 00:51:22.429
if I knew what all my friends did without me,

00:51:22.429 --> 00:51:26.730
I would have been a hot mess. Sometimes I just

00:51:26.730 --> 00:51:29.389
accidentally found out later, but now everything

00:51:29.389 --> 00:51:34.269
is so in our face and everything is so like,

00:51:34.269 --> 00:51:36.750
yeah, and I'm really grateful there were not.

00:51:38.239 --> 00:51:41.460
phones and proof because man, I would be really

00:51:41.460 --> 00:51:43.760
exposed. In today's world, if you're not at a

00:51:43.760 --> 00:51:47.239
party, you know immediately. Yeah. Yeah. When

00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:48.980
we were growing up, if you weren't at a party,

00:51:49.139 --> 00:51:51.079
you may not even find out that the party ever

00:51:51.079 --> 00:51:53.980
happened. Exactly. And you were just fine. Yeah.

00:51:54.159 --> 00:51:57.239
The next one is fear and control as rebellion.

00:51:57.849 --> 00:52:00.929
fear of failure, fear of judgment, fear of vulnerability.

00:52:01.250 --> 00:52:04.289
I mean, there's so much perfectionism, rejecting

00:52:04.289 --> 00:52:07.510
spiritual risks like repentance, forgiveness,

00:52:07.590 --> 00:52:09.570
or testimony. I remember as a young kid thinking,

00:52:09.570 --> 00:52:11.730
I'll repent about this later, because right now

00:52:11.730 --> 00:52:13.929
I'm actually enjoying this and false beliefs

00:52:13.929 --> 00:52:20.250
and inner lies. I can't change, right? God doesn't

00:52:20.250 --> 00:52:22.809
really love me anymore. Others are better, more

00:52:22.809 --> 00:52:26.349
spiritual. Why should I even try? Well, and I

00:52:26.349 --> 00:52:31.570
think it's important to also remember that when

00:52:31.570 --> 00:52:35.889
we can't get really gut -level honest, I don't

00:52:35.889 --> 00:52:39.210
think we can heal. Literally. That's definitely

00:52:39.210 --> 00:52:41.690
one of the points in the Pillars of Repentance

00:52:41.690 --> 00:52:44.929
is the ability to be completely honest. Yeah.

00:52:45.469 --> 00:52:49.670
Yeah. So important. Yeah. All right, religious

00:52:49.670 --> 00:52:51.849
rebellion. So within the church, you know, like

00:52:51.849 --> 00:52:54.889
for example, weaponizing doctrine to hurt or

00:52:54.889 --> 00:52:58.309
exclude people. Unfortunately, I've seen this.

00:52:59.329 --> 00:53:03.449
You know, idolizing a specific cultural view

00:53:03.449 --> 00:53:07.369
as gospel truth. You know, we have some cultural

00:53:07.369 --> 00:53:11.559
views that have kind of taken on that. gospel

00:53:11.559 --> 00:53:14.460
truth persona that may or may not be and those

00:53:14.460 --> 00:53:17.880
that can definitely be weaponized, right? Over

00:53:17.880 --> 00:53:24.079
reliance on our checklist righteousness. Did

00:53:24.079 --> 00:53:27.760
this, did this, did this. Yes, I know. Guilty.

00:53:28.139 --> 00:53:32.739
Yeah, valuing tradition over revelation. We used

00:53:32.739 --> 00:53:36.360
to talk a lot, David and I, about the difference

00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:39.820
between redemption and assimilation. You know,

00:53:40.000 --> 00:53:42.179
living in an assimilation where everybody has

00:53:42.179 --> 00:53:44.460
to be like everybody else. That can definitely

00:53:44.460 --> 00:53:50.260
be. Anyway, those are a few, Deb. I think that...

00:53:51.530 --> 00:53:56.650
We've done a pretty good job talking about the

00:53:56.650 --> 00:53:59.230
rebellion, weapons of rebellion, how important

00:53:59.230 --> 00:54:03.050
it is for us to bury those weapons of rebellion,

00:54:03.250 --> 00:54:06.769
the invitation around burying them, that through

00:54:06.769 --> 00:54:10.329
conversion, turning to the Lord completely and

00:54:10.329 --> 00:54:14.650
letting him change us, that those weapons can

00:54:14.650 --> 00:54:17.250
potentially be stayed buried if we bury them

00:54:17.250 --> 00:54:22.829
deep enough. Elder Christofferson said, basically

00:54:22.829 --> 00:54:27.869
summarized, may we bury very, very deep any element

00:54:27.869 --> 00:54:31.469
of rebellion against God in our lives and replace

00:54:31.469 --> 00:54:36.570
it with a willing heart and a willing mind. I

00:54:36.570 --> 00:54:40.030
love that. I love that too. I love that too,

00:54:40.130 --> 00:54:43.739
I also love. In Mosiah, chapter five, this again

00:54:43.739 --> 00:54:46.719
part of King Benjamin's address, chapter five,

00:54:46.840 --> 00:54:50.059
verse two. And they all cried with one voice,

00:54:50.380 --> 00:54:52.719
saying, Yea, we believe all the words which thou

00:54:52.719 --> 00:54:55.699
hast spoken unto us, and also we know of their

00:54:55.699 --> 00:54:59.559
surety and truth, because of the spirit of the

00:54:59.559 --> 00:55:03.079
Lord Omnipotent which has wrought a mighty change

00:55:03.079 --> 00:55:06.559
in us. or in our hearts, that we have no more

00:55:06.559 --> 00:55:10.920
disposition to do evil, but to do good continually.

00:55:11.880 --> 00:55:15.059
So it's by having that spirit, Deb, that spirit

00:55:15.059 --> 00:55:17.420
of the Lord Omnipotent, the spirit of the Lord

00:55:17.420 --> 00:55:19.579
Omnipotent, which is the Holy Ghost, of course,

00:55:20.679 --> 00:55:23.340
in us that will change us, that will change our

00:55:23.340 --> 00:55:25.559
hearts, that will create it and make us so we

00:55:25.559 --> 00:55:28.159
have no more disposition to do evil, but to do

00:55:28.159 --> 00:55:31.420
good continually. So it sounds to me like, The

00:55:31.420 --> 00:55:35.480
answer to our rebellion is to have the Spirit

00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:39.880
of the Holy Ghost in our lives. Well, and again,

00:55:39.880 --> 00:55:41.780
we're gonna go back to the sacrament because

00:55:41.780 --> 00:55:44.940
I think it's important to remember those sacred

00:55:44.940 --> 00:55:51.199
prayers that talk about being willing. You know,

00:55:51.440 --> 00:55:55.260
willingness to follow, willingness to obey, willingness,

00:55:55.659 --> 00:55:58.780
you know, and we're not gonna do it perfect.

00:55:59.420 --> 00:56:03.119
But I just love the verbiage in there that talks

00:56:03.119 --> 00:56:07.400
about willing. Yeah, just willing. Yeah. Just

00:56:07.400 --> 00:56:08.699
having a willingness to change. We are willing

00:56:08.699 --> 00:56:11.719
to take upon His name. Yeah. Willing, you know,

00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:14.559
with that broken heart and that contrite spirit.

00:56:16.099 --> 00:56:19.239
I love this promise. This is a promise in Ezekiel

00:56:19.239 --> 00:56:24.380
chapter 36, verses 26 and 27. A new heart also

00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:27.559
will I. give you and a new spirit will I put

00:56:27.559 --> 00:56:31.119
within you and I will take away the stony heart

00:56:31.119 --> 00:56:33.659
out of your flesh and I will give you a heart

00:56:33.659 --> 00:56:36.480
a new heart and I will give you a heart of flesh

00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:40.579
and I will put my spirit within you and cause

00:56:40.579 --> 00:56:43.940
you to walk in my statutes and keep all my judgments

00:56:43.940 --> 00:56:47.800
and to do them a new heart that's what I want

00:56:47.949 --> 00:56:52.230
I just want a new heart. And I think, I know,

00:56:52.829 --> 00:56:55.829
in fact, I testify that the only way to get that

00:56:55.829 --> 00:56:58.170
new heart is to have the spirit of the Holy Ghost

00:56:58.170 --> 00:57:01.989
administrating the effects of Jesus Christ's

00:57:01.989 --> 00:57:04.650
atonement in my life. And if I do that, I'm still

00:57:04.650 --> 00:57:06.679
gonna deal with rebellion. I'm still going to

00:57:06.679 --> 00:57:08.780
have rebellious thoughts, attitudes, feelings.

00:57:09.219 --> 00:57:11.579
But when I do, I'm not going to beat myself up

00:57:11.579 --> 00:57:14.179
for it. I'm going to recognize it for what it's

00:57:14.179 --> 00:57:16.579
it, what it is. It's part of the fall. It comes

00:57:16.579 --> 00:57:19.539
by way of agency. Heavenly Father's not surprised

00:57:19.539 --> 00:57:21.500
by it. He's not disappointed in me because I

00:57:21.500 --> 00:57:24.199
have it. You know, how I act and what I do with

00:57:24.199 --> 00:57:26.659
them, that's a totally different thing altogether.

00:57:26.820 --> 00:57:29.699
But he's not mad at me because I have them. So,

00:57:29.820 --> 00:57:34.159
you know, if I think again, think back to that

00:57:34.159 --> 00:57:38.619
song, I stand all amazed that the love Jesus

00:57:38.619 --> 00:57:41.860
offers me, confused by the grace that so fully

00:57:41.860 --> 00:57:48.760
he proffers me. That's the answer, Deb. He's

00:57:48.760 --> 00:57:53.760
the answer. He is definitely the answer. Christ

00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:57.679
not only removes sin, he removes the desire for

00:57:57.679 --> 00:58:02.579
sin. As we, you know, Spirit leads us to humility,

00:58:03.400 --> 00:58:07.599
to that broken heart, to that willingness, our

00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:12.559
desires to be more holy. I love the hymn, page

00:58:12.559 --> 00:58:15.340
one, two, three, in the old hymn book. Oh, may

00:58:15.340 --> 00:58:18.900
my soul commune with thee and find thy holy peace.

00:58:19.059 --> 00:58:23.780
I love that hymn because it reminds me that I

00:58:23.780 --> 00:58:28.280
am. I am nothing. I am absolutely nothing without

00:58:28.280 --> 00:58:33.480
him. I love that. Well, and you know, it occurs

00:58:33.480 --> 00:58:37.880
to me. He doesn't just forgive rebellion. He

00:58:37.880 --> 00:58:41.199
transforms the rebel. It's through conversion.

00:58:41.940 --> 00:58:44.139
It's only through conversion, only through changing.

00:58:44.260 --> 00:58:46.179
Conversion isn't the one and done thing. We're

00:58:46.179 --> 00:58:48.380
going to talk about that more and more as we

00:58:48.380 --> 00:58:54.389
go throughout the season here. That's the answer,

00:58:54.469 --> 00:58:59.429
it's all about conversion. So this week as we

00:58:59.429 --> 00:59:02.590
end this podcast, we want to encourage our friends

00:59:02.590 --> 00:59:04.469
and our listeners, those of you that are with

00:59:04.469 --> 00:59:09.690
us, to identify your weapons, identify your rebellions,

00:59:10.030 --> 00:59:13.309
and ask the Spirit to help you trust Christ to

00:59:13.309 --> 00:59:16.309
do what we cannot do for ourselves. Because He

00:59:16.309 --> 00:59:21.150
doesn't make up the difference. He is the difference.

00:59:22.299 --> 00:59:25.019
So, as we kinda close today, we just wanna say

00:59:25.019 --> 00:59:27.059
that wherever you are and however you're feeling,

00:59:27.480 --> 00:59:29.760
you're welcome to be here with us. We love that

00:59:29.760 --> 00:59:32.219
you are. You know, Jesus isn't just waiting for

00:59:32.219 --> 00:59:33.980
you to clean everything up before you come to

00:59:33.980 --> 00:59:35.699
Him. He wants you to come just the way you are.

00:59:36.360 --> 00:59:38.840
Like I said earlier, He meets us right in the

00:59:38.840 --> 00:59:42.340
middle of our mess. That's where His grace shines

00:59:42.340 --> 00:59:45.179
the brightest. Thank Heaven. So come as you are.

00:59:46.009 --> 00:59:48.849
broken, hopeful, questioning, searching, you

00:59:48.849 --> 00:59:51.630
are not alone. And remember, we'd love to stay

00:59:51.630 --> 00:59:53.210
connected with you. So if you have thoughts,

00:59:53.309 --> 00:59:55.949
questions, stories, et cetera that you'd like

00:59:55.949 --> 00:59:58.210
to share with us. And again, if you'd like a

00:59:58.210 --> 01:00:01.309
copy of what we shared and talked about here

01:00:01.309 --> 01:00:03.690
today, please let us know that you can do that

01:00:03.690 --> 01:00:07.630
at he redeems us at gmail .com. We read every

01:00:07.630 --> 01:00:10.989
one of those and also a reminder to go on and

01:00:10.989 --> 01:00:13.670
take a look at our social media pages. You're

01:00:13.670 --> 01:00:16.889
there anyway, you know you are. So go ahead and

01:00:16.889 --> 01:00:20.809
find it. Follow us on social media, like, share.

01:00:21.369 --> 01:00:24.230
Let's get the word out about the podcast. And

01:00:24.230 --> 01:00:27.610
if this episode touched your heart, we hope that

01:00:27.610 --> 01:00:29.210
you'll share it with someone you love and care

01:00:29.210 --> 01:00:31.429
about, a friend, a family member, anyone who

01:00:31.429 --> 01:00:33.510
could use a little more hope right now. Heaven

01:00:33.510 --> 01:00:37.469
knows we all need more hope. Yeah. Next week,

01:00:37.489 --> 01:00:39.210
we're gonna talk more about how the Savior doesn't

01:00:39.210 --> 01:00:42.150
just redeem us, but he lifts us, he transforms

01:00:42.150 --> 01:00:45.820
us, and he does it in our everyday lives. Thanks

01:00:45.820 --> 01:00:48.880
for being with us and remember there is always

01:00:48.880 --> 01:00:52.760
hope through Jesus Christ Because you have been

01:00:52.760 --> 01:00:56.059
redeemed through his blood Thanks for being with

01:00:56.059 --> 01:00:58.960
us everybody. We'll see you next time