Hey there, everybody. Welcome out to another
episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, season
four. Scott Durfey here, joined as always by
my better half. That's debatable. What's up,
Deb? Hi, everyone. Hi, my friends. It's good
to have you, Deb. How's the week been? Everything
good? Oh, I had a fabulous Mother's Day. That's
right. It was fantastic. Just past this past
week. In fact, before I came down here, I had
a busy day at work. Yeah. And I was like, how
am I going to just calm down? And I read through
a couple of my Mother's Day cards and just remembered
the day and being surrounded by my kids and friends
and loved loved loved loved loved ones yeah yeah
warms my heart yeah you definitely had a blessed
day on mother's day you know what though uh it's
not the case for everybody i know and i'm so
sorry for that please come over and i'll feed
you and hug you yeah not everybody mother's day
is not a wonderful day for everybody out there
and we're aware of that we did We've received
a couple of emails encouraging you, Deb, to continue
on and say, hey, don't be nervous. You're doing
a great job. Thank you for that, everyone. And
all of that, yeah. I just wanted to read parts
of this one. I don't know where this person's
from or anything like that, but I thought it
was really cool. I haven't listened to all of
it yet, but I was listening to a recent one that
Deb has joined as a co -host, and I really appreciate
both your openness and vulnerability. This is
what I thought was great. Sharing your experience
is helping me deepen my understanding of the
Savior's grace and atoning sacrifice. Hearing
you continually praise and express gratitude
is exactly what I've needed to hear. Thanks for
all you do. And I think that there's something
to be said about that. not just us, but everybody,
there's something to be said about praising God,
praising Jesus, praising the Lord, where we should
be praising him. And we wrapped up last week
and we actually did our first Institute class,
I did, you weren't there. I was busy doing other
things. Yeah. Well, honestly, you were to you
had a temple walk and things that you had to
do for your bridal shower. That's true. I forgot
about that. And there was a wedding. Yeah. So
there were four horses to ride for one person.
I had to pick my horse. Well, I picked I picked
the other horse and did make it is to it was
great. We talked about who we are like we talked
about last week in the episode, you know, in
our first in our. last episode prior to this
when we talked about who we are, whose we are.
I've been thinking a lot about that of you. Absolutely.
What have you been thinking? Well, it puts things
in perspective really quickly for me. Yeah. Because.
So talking about who who I am. Yes. Yeah. Who
we are. Because I have a lot of distractions.
I have a very busy work that I I a job that I
work at. and it is I think that's where I exercise
the most that I just I literally have to push
pause and I take a big deep breath and I'm like
think celestial dad this is just a job literally
yeah I literally do because there's pressures
and stresses and personalities that are very
very difficult for me that I literally just have
to take a deep breath and go they're a son or
a daughter of God too and we this is this is
not who they really are this is so I there's
perspective a lot of perspective that I have
to just kind of push pause and you know you really
can't find you know positive in a day in a situation
if you look for it yeah if if Oftentimes in the
podcast, we talk about Doctrine and Covenants,
section six, where it says, look unto me in every
thought. I always wondered, so I think that's
important, but I often wonder if we looked unto
him in every thought, knowing who we are, and
if that was part of our process of looking to
him. Hey, I'm a son of God, and I'm a spiritual
son of... We didn't talk much about that. We
talked about being sons and daughters of heavenly
parents, but we learned in Mosiah that we become
spiritual sons and daughters through our covenant
relationship with Jesus Christ too. I think it's
important for me also to remember that not only
am I a daughter of God, but those that I'm surrounded
with. I mean, Bi are also sons and daughters
of God, because this is where I forget it the
most too, not just to work, but when I'm driving.
Because sometimes people cut me off or sometimes
people do things that I'm like super irritated
with. Well, and this is the little story I have
to tell myself. Oh, they're probably hurrying
to the hospital because their wife's in labor
or oh, they probably just found out that their
parent passed away. I literally have to play
this little story in my head. to remember the
eternal perspective of these are sons and daughters
of Heavenly Father and I am a daughter of Heavenly
Father. It's a game I have to play with myself.
It's that sounds absurd. You can edit that if
you want. I'm not going to edit that. That's
out there for the whole world, sweetie. But,
you know, for those of us who know you. We know
this so it's okay that I play a little game when
I'm well when I have road rage Yeah, we're just
you know, I and nobody's different than you I'm
certainly no different than you in that regard
for sure, but I wonder if you know at some point
We when we have those situations and we see ourselves
as who we are and we see others as who they are.
I think that, you know, as we progress along
this path that we're progressing along, or we're
making an attempt to progress along in healing
from all of the effects of the fallen world,
which we're going to talk about tonight. Which
I'm excited about. Yeah, which we're going to
talk about today. But understanding who I am,
and that I really have a royal birthright that
I really am. by way of heirship entitled to all
that my Heavenly Father has. And in this life,
that's so incomprehensible to me. In this life,
I'm just trying to keep my head above water,
it seems like most of the time. And so most of
the time, what that really means to me then is
that I can just have peace. Peace in the trial,
peace in the affliction, peace in the mess, you
know, like we've talked about so much. will be
joint heirs with Jesus Christ. I mean, that is
overwhelming. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it's like,
I don't even know what that means. So let's just
back it up a little bit. Pause. Actually, I do
kind of have a feeling that I know what that
means, but I think let's just back it up a little
bit and talk about. You know, some of the things
that we talked about, just to wrap up from last
week, some of the things that we talked about
in class this past week about who we are, some
of the comments were, you know, if I really constantly
remembered, and that's the word that you like
to talk about so often is the remembering, but
if I really remembered who I am, then my life
would be completely different a lot of the time.
I wouldn't have the insecurities or feelings
of inadequacies that I have. I would accept the
trials that come my way, maybe with a little
bit of a different approach and so much more.
But we talked about last week the pre -existence,
we talked about the council and heaven and all
that took place there. And then, What we really
didn't get into yet was what happened next, right?
So we know we have these pillars of eternity.
We know we have the creation. We know we have
the fall of Adam and Eve. We know we have the
atonement of Jesus Christ and the resurrection
and all these things are what we call the pillars
of eternity. So the first pillar of eternity,
or the next pillar of eternity that we're gonna
be talking about, rather, is actually the fall
of Adam and Eve. And that's an interesting conversation.
People will sometimes say, well, okay, but aren't
we gonna talk about healing? Aren't we gonna
talk about how do we let Jesus's power into our
lives to heal us from all of the stuff that...
that really stinks in our lives and those kinds
of things. And so, you know, it's important that
we understand who we are and it's important that
we understand why we're in the condition that
we're in today so that we can approach that fallenness
in a different way, a way with more grace, a
way with more ease, a way with more whatever
adjective that you're looking for. That reminds
me of the second article of faith that says,
we believe that men will be punished for their
own sins and not for Adam's transgression. And
I think, I think just remembering that, you know,
we think of the fall and we think of transgression,
but I think understanding the fall has, and really
studying the fall has changed my entire perspective.
of what Adam and Eve did in that Garden of Eden.
Yeah, right, yeah. Okay, well let's do this.
Why would it be important for us to talk about
the fall? Well, I think understanding the fall
has helped me realize that the things, the experiences
and the challenges and the mistakes and things
that I experience in mortality, that it is literally
one of those things that helps me remember that
there is a purpose for all the challenges, trials,
temptations, even on days that I have those.
moments that it's like a why me moment. Why is
this happening? What am I supposed to learn from
this? But it helps me understanding the fall
helps me know that everything has its purpose
and it's all a part of God's plan. There is no
mistakes. There is no accidents. And so everything
that we're here experiencing feeling our life
experiences are part of why we are here, literally.
When we talk about the fall of Adam and Eve,
this is literally our advent into mortality.
And without this advent into mortality, our progression
would have just been stifled, right? There's
just so much that we would not have been able
to do to progress, et cetera. But here's the
problem, there comes, because of the fall, Deb,
there comes two big problems. Spiritual death
and physical death. Physical death, so let's
read about them. So let's go to the first one
is we're gonna talk about physical death. Let's
go to Moses chapter six, verse 48. So, Moses
chapter six, verse 48. And he said unto them,
because that Adam fell, we are, and by his fall
came death, and we are made partakers of misery
and woe. Yay. Hooray. Partakers of misery and
woe. So, you know, because of the physical death,
we become partakers of what? Misery and woe.
Okay, physical death. Alright, let's go to Alma
42, chapter nine. We're not gonna do a ton of
this tonight, but just a little bit we need to.
Let's go to Alma chapter 42, verse nine. Therefore,
as the soul could never die, and the fall had
brought upon all mankind a spiritual death, as
well as a temporal, that is, they were cut off
from the presence of the Lord. It was expedient
that mankind should be reclaimed from this spiritual
death. Okay, I love that. And let's not forget
that. We'll put a pin in that and come back to
that in weeks down the road. But where it says
it is expedient that mankind should be reclaimed
from this spiritual. Okay, so we're reclaimed
from the spiritual death. We're reclaimed from
also the physical death, right? And those are
some of the blessings that come by way of Christ's
atonement. But before we get to by way of Christ's
atonement, we really need to dive into, okay,
so what's this fall of Adam and Eve all about?
So number one, was it part of the plan or was
it a mistake? It was definitely part of the plan.
I love Elder Anderson's book, The Divine Gift
of Forgiveness, and there's so many nuggets in
here that talks about the fall. And it says,
before the fall of Adam, this is chapter six,
far from our heavenly home, page 64, in The Divine
Gift of Forgiveness. And I'm in the third paragraph,
a little bit down. Two of the Father's choices
spirits, Adam and Eve, were selected to begin
the human family. before the fall of Adam, there
were no children, no death, and no sin upon the
earth. I can't even imagine that. No children?
No children. No sin? No sin. No death? No death.
I can't even imagine that. And then when Adam
and Eve ate the forbidden fruit, all the living
elements of the earth became mortal, requiring
work to live and survive. and bringing death,
sin, temptation, injustice, physical and spiritual
trials, and all the difficulties of mortality.
That really pushes pause in my brain for a minute.
Yeah. Why? Yeah. Why? Well, like I said, I cannot
imagine no children, no death, and no sin, which
means to me, I mean, I'm reading into this, but
did they really know joy with no sorrow? No.
Okay. The answer to that is found, right? You're
gonna tell me a scripture, I know it. Exactly,
we're gonna go to Moses, chapter five. So the
question was what again? Did they know joy or
could they know joy? Well, there was no sin,
no death upon the earth, so how would they know
joy? Yep, let's go to chapter five of Moses.
Hang on, you're faster than me. And we're gonna
start in Moses chapter five verse eight. Wherefore,
thou shalt do all thou doest in the name of the
Son, and thou shalt repent and call upon God
in the name of the Son forevermore. So obviously
Adam and Eve are being commanded here, taught
here, what they need to be doing. And they're,
right, the very first, one of the very first
things that they're taught is we need to call
upon the name of the Son. That means something
more than just calling upon the Son. They call
upon the name of the Son. We'll get to that in
a few weeks when we talk about faith in the name
of Jesus Christ. So just kind of put that in
the back of your head for a minute. And then
in nine, and in that day the Holy Ghost fell
upon Adam, which beareth record of the Father
and the Son, saying, I am the only begotten of
the Father, from the beginning henceforth and
forever, that thou hast fallen, thou mayest be.
So because they were fallen, now they can be
redeemed and all mankind, even as many will.
So let's just stop right there. Can you have
joy without redemption? Without the redemption
that comes at all mankind, even as many as will.
So it seems like we have a big choice here. I
mean, it's just a choice as many will. Right.
And in that day, Adam blessed God and was filled
and began to prophesy concerning the families
of the earth saying, blessed be the name of God
for because of my transgression, my eyes are
opened. And in this life, I shall have joy. There
it is. and in this life I shall have joy and
again in the flesh I shall see God." And now
Eve, his wife heard all these things and was
glad saying, were it not for our transgression,
we would have never had seed. So there's one
of the four things, okay? So we would have never
had seed and never should have known good and
evil. So they would have never had, I mean, think
of that. If you don't know the difference between
good and evil, that's just flat. There's no up,
there's no down, it's just flat. So that's the
second one. They know good from evil. And the
joy of our redemption. And the joy of our redemption.
You know, that's another name of Jesus. The joy
of our redemption. I love that. Yeah. And eternal
life, which God giveth unto all the obedient.
So would we have had joy without the fall of
Adam and Eve? No. It would have been that flat.
You know, and it used to be that, you know, and
I don't care to compare and contrast that much,
but it used to be that when we would talk about
this on the podcast, that we would talk about
how that, you know, our faith is really one of
the only faiths that really understand the fall
of Adam and Eve the way we do. But today I was
listening to a Christian radio station and I
heard a preacher on there. I'm not gonna say
his name or even the radio station or anything
like that, but this is a evangelical preacher
on there, praising Adam and Eve for the fall
of Adam and Eve. Yeah, first time I've ever,
ever heard anything like that. Yeah, I think
so too. So, okay, here we are, we're talking
about the fall of Adam and Eve, and again, I'm
gonna pose the question one more time, why do
we care? Why does this matter to you and me,
Doug? Well, I think it helps us understand why
we're here and I mean understanding who we are
and Why we're here. I mean it we gotta learn
from our experience. We got to learn from being
mortal We didn't know what it was like to to
bleed to have an owie You know what? I mean learn
to walk learn to eat That's funny that you'd
go there because if I didn't have the fall of
Adam and Eve I wouldn't have had an owie I know.
Yeah, and I go too, if it wouldn't have been
for the fall of Adam and Eve, alcoholism would
have never become part of my life. Well, we think
different. Well, and I love that. It just, you
know, speaks to your own purity. Well, and I'm
going also back to the book because it says,
first, mortal life would not be easy. Choices
and decisions would constantly be before us,
and our challenge would be to choose good and
reject evil. Yeah. I mean, Literally. I mean,
we face stuff. I don't think there's a human
on this planet that is not going through hard,
hard, hard things right now. Experiencing hard
things, seeing hard things, enduring hard things,
and in all aspects, physically, mentally, emotionally,
spiritually, I think there's just so much, like
President Nelson said, tumultuous times, tumultuous
things. We live in a world that is so hard. But
you know what? The thing that's interesting is
This isn't new news. By understanding the fall,
it's like this is not, I mean, we read anywhere
in scripture, nobody had it easy. Whether you
were born 2 ,000 years ago or you were born in
2 ,000 years, I mean, it's part of the plan.
And we are here to learn good from evil. And
because of the fall, we get to experience good
and evil. If you were to ask me the same question,
if you were to ask me, Scott, why do you think
it's important that we understand the fall of
Adam and Eve? I can talk about it from a collective
perspective for all of us. So I think it's good
that we all understand the fall of Adam and Eve
because of this. I think it's important that
we understand the fall of Adam and Eve as a group
so that we can know this. But then I take this
and I make it personal. So for me, Scott Durfee,
how does understanding the fall of Adam and Eve
help my relationship with deity, help my approach
to overcoming the things that are on me, be all
over me because of the fall of Adam and Eve,
right? So understanding the fall of Adam and
Eve really helps me understand a couple of things.
Number one, it helps me understand that I'm not
broken. I've fallen, but I'm not broken. It helps
me understand that I'm not evil. I have propensities
and tendencies and those types of things that
may not necessarily be 100 % in alignment with
my Heavenly Father's will for me, but that does
not make me evil. It doesn't make me subject
to the devil. and a few other things, but I think
about if it hadn't have been for the fall of
Adam and Eve, number one, I wouldn't have forgotten
who I am. I mean, that's the very veil. That's
one of the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve
is we have that veil. And then the other effects
of the fall of Adam and Eve would also not mean
as much to me if I really have that deep understanding.
So for example, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I
have 26 years sober, but I still have alcoholic
type of thinking and attributes, and people that
don't understand that are shaking their heads
right now. And you get thirsty. And I do. And
people who do understand that are saying, yeah,
no kidding, me too. Yeah. Yeah, no kidding, me
too. Because, you know, I've told the story before,
even on the podcast, but I was... So this would
have been maybe 12 years ago. So I would have
probably been 15 years or 14 years sober somewhere
in that neighborhood. And I was in St. Louis,
Missouri, speaking. I was on a work trip and
I was getting ready to walk across the street
to Bush Stadium to a baseball game. And as I
was walking by myself, I had to walk through
the bar area and all of a sudden I wanted to
drink just out of nowhere. Right? It just hit
me. And it wasn't one of those things like, oh,
that sure sounds good. It was a drive. It was
a pull. It was a, it felt so familiar. That temptation.
Yeah. And it was ugly. And it scared me. I called
my sponsor who at the time, who was not a member
of the church, but understand life, understood
life. He understood the church too. Big time.
But I called him and I said, He's no longer with
us, he's passed, and I owe my life, a great deal
of my life to that man. Anyway, I called him
and I said, hey, I got a little problem. And
he goes, what's the problem? And I go, I'm walking
through this bar on my way to the baseball game,
and I want a drink. And I was expecting him to
say, oh man, I'm so sorry, that's probably so
hard, blah, blah, blah, you know. You know what
he said? You know what he said. I do know what
he said. You know what he said. And he says,
yeah, well, no kidding. Dummy, that's not exactly
how we put it. But he said, yeah, no kidding,
dummy, you're an alcoholic, you're supposed to
want to drink. That was a big aha for me. And
it's the same way with the fall, Deb. Yeah, no
kidding you have inappropriate emotions. No kidding
you have inappropriate thoughts. No kidding that
you're responding in ways that are inappropriate
to this. situation. Yeah. And everything else.
Well, he had no kidding. No kidding. You're in
a fallen world. You're fallen, bro. You're, you're
a mortal. Yeah. In a fallen world. And you know,
As soon as I say that though, then there's that
part in the back of my head that are like, okay,
you're just trying to justify it. Okay, you're
just trying to justify it. Okay, you're just
trying. That's not the case at all. We are in
a fallen world and because we deal with and have
to respond to the effects of spiritual and physical
death, we forget who we are sometimes. Yeah.
And you know what? We are all tempted. No man's
free from temptation. Yeah. Yeah. The adversary
will use every means possible to deceive us.
And when we make mistakes, Heavenly Father's
not surprised. Heavenly Father's not mad at us.
He's not up there wringing his hands thinking,
oh, this fallen people. There's a plan put in
place for us to heal from all of the effects
of the fall of Adam and Eve. In this book, there's
a quote from President M. Russell Ballard, page
65. He says, Satan will seek to tempt us at all
times and in ways that exploit our greatest weaknesses.
He knows them too. He didn't say that. Or destroy
our strengths. But his promise of pleasure are
short -lived deceptions. His evil design is to
tempt us into sinning, knowing that when we sin,
we separate ourselves from our Heavenly Father
and the Savior Jesus Christ. There he is. He's
the dismemberment. He's trying to dismember us
when we're trying to remember. His desire would
be to destroy us spiritually and keep us from
returning to our Heavenly Father. Why would Heavenly
Father allow Satan to continue to fight against
righteousness and to tempt all of us coming into
mortality? The scriptures answer, and it must
needs be that if the devil should tempt the children
of men, or they could not be agents unto themselves,
for if they never should have bitter, they could
not know the sweet. I think, Deb, there's a couple
of things that we just really wanna drive home
here in context with the spirit of what we're
trying to accomplish here. So let's just re -establish
what it is that we're trying to accomplish with
this podcast. In this podcast, it's our wish
and desire, our objective, to help others to
heal from whatever it is that they need to heal
from using the atonement of Jesus Christ to do
it. Heal from what? Heal from addiction. Heal
from the problems that come from mental illness.
Heal from... Abuse. The problems that can become
ours because of abuse or the abuses even that
we have perpetuated. Yeah, the abuser temptations.
Okay. Turmoils, pains and afflictions of all
kinds. Disease. There's so many. Fear, pride.
selfishness, all of these other negative types
of emotions are all here because of the fall
of Adam and Eve. Now, when I, and this is important
because, you know, when I worked the 12 steps
of Alcoholics Anonymous, and I just had an opportunity
to work steps one, two, and three with the new
sponsor the other day, which was a great experience.
But when I worked through the steps of Alcoholics
Anonymous, I had to find a new design for living.
I mean, that's actually kind of how we refer
to it there. Because of the effects of the fall,
which were my alcoholism, which were all of the
emotional and other negative attributes in my
life that were not in alignment, that were not
God -like, because of all of those things, if
I ever wanted to have peace, okay, I knew the
misery, which was also because of the fall, but
I never... If I were to know the joy and the
peace that would come through Christ's atonement,
that would offset those effects of the fall.
But here's my problem. So I'll be going along
in life and I'll be getting the checkboxes checked
and I'll be going on temple excursions as a youth
and then I'll make a mistake and then I'll...
hurry and repent and go on other temple excursions
as a youth or what have you and then pretty soon
my life gets into my 30s and my 40s and my 50s
and now I'm in the beginning stages of my 60s
and it's not all that much different, right?
I still see everything in my life. I hope I can
explain this right. I still see all of the challenges
in my life. And they can still have those those
they can they can still affect me in negative
ways. For example. If I'm not in tune and if
I'm not realizing that the effects of the fall
of Adam and Eve are at work in my life and I
have an inappropriate feeling or I have a feeling
of anger or resentment towards somebody else
or I have a desire to commit a sin or whatever
the case may be, if I know that I'm fallen, if
I know that because I'm fallen the devil has
the ability to bruise my heel, But because of
enmity, I have power to crush his head. But because
of all of that, I realize that if I'm feeling
those things, it's probably part of Heavenly
Father's plan too. I went a long ways to say
that, didn't I? But I think it's really important
for us to push pause every once in a while. And
especially when we're in that state of temptation
or or whatever, that feeling guilt that, oh my
gosh, I had this thought, or oh my gosh, I really
wanted to do something really mean, or say something,
or whatever, whatever that temptation is, to
push pause and go, thank you, Heavenly Father,
for the fall. Thank you for making me mortal
so that I can experience these things and know
for myself that I am fallen and that I truly
do need. the atonement of Jesus Christ. Just
like Adam and Eve, when they learned that they
could be redeemed. I think when we get to that
space where there's that fallenness that it's
like, wow, I fell really hard this time. And
then to just push pause and look up and go, there
is hope. There's still hope. Even in this big
dark hole I've just dug. And I just kept digging.
And I thought, Wow, even the ladder is gone at
this point. I can't get out of this. What am
I to do? But what a gift to be able to push pause
and say literally, thank you Heavenly Father
for the fall. Thank you for this perfect plan
that helps me learn, that helps me grow, that
gives me experience, helps me, that gives me
freedom to have agency to make those choices.
and then choose again to follow him. I'm going
to read another part in this book. I'm still
in chapter six on page 69. In understanding the
fall, we must remember who we really are. We
are divine, literal spirit children of heavenly
parents. Elder Jeffrey R. Holland taught, because
this doctrine of the Fall is so basic to the
plan of salvation and also because it is so susceptible
to misunderstanding, we must note that these
references to natural evil empathetically do
not mean that men and women are inherently evil.
There is a crucial difference. I love this. As
spirit sons and daughters of God, all mortal
men and women are divine in origin and divine
in their potential destiny. But it is also true
that as a result of the fall, they are now in
a natural or fallen world where the devil taketh
away light. and where some elements of nature,
including temporal human nature, need discipline,
restraint, and refinement. We live in a world
of sin, and no matter how good we desire to be,
sin enters into each of our lives. It's just
a fact. Yeah. So if and when it does, how should
we respond to that, right? Should we see ourselves
as as broken, as defeated, as trash, as unworthy.
Well, and it was important for me to know and
learn that I am not my mistakes. Yeah, that's
right. That is not my identity. And I think that's,
like I said when Elder Holland quoted, I mean,
even before that says, we are divine, literal,
spirit children. Yeah. of heavenly parents. That's
who we really are. And that's why it's so important
that we know who we really are. So that when
we have these temptations, when we have this
sin, when we have this coming at us, that we
don't let it re -identify ourselves. Because
that's not who we are. I am not my abuse. I am
not my addiction. I am not my sins. I am not
my mistakes. I am a literal descendant of the
divine. heavenly parents who love me, and I love
them. For me, one of the great things that come
about by way of the fall of Adam and Eve Dev
is we wouldn't know our need for the Savior.
You know, when we talk about recovery, in the
circles of recovery, we often refer to a great
gift being the gift of desperation. Right. It
is a gift to an absolute gift of desperation.
And that gift of desperation comes to those who
are dealing with addictions by way of what we
sometimes refer to as rock bottom. Yeah. You
know, and that rock bottom is obviously not a
place. It's a choice. It's a decision. It's not
necessarily a series of events. And it can look
and be different for literally everybody. But
there's a gift in that. There's an absolute gift
in understanding our nothingness, right? King
Benjamin teaches us that. To understand our own
nothingness is key, key, absolutely key to all
of this working at all. And so, which is kind
of interesting. One of the great tools that the
adversary uses is to want us to make to be relevant
or important. And it can show up differently
for so many people, right? But when I'm not relevant,
when I'm not feeling those kinds of things, important
or seen or heard or whatever like that, I know
that I'm in need of connection with my savior.
And if I didn't have the fall of Adam and Eve,
I wouldn't know that. In fact, Elder Holland,
I love this. He said, you can't appreciate the
atonement of Jesus Christ unless you understand
the fall of Adam and Eve. You can't appreciate
the atonement if you don't understand the fall.
And I think part of understanding the fall is
knowing that we can't save ourselves. I can't.
Yes. And yeah, and he can. He can. And we'll
let him. I think I'll let him. That's the first
three steps. Well, and also I think about if
we really... Believed that we could do this all
on our own think about how many egos we would
have on you know what I mean I mean, I just well
now here's here's an acronym is that what it's
called for ego that has really helped me out
because out because sometimes I allow my ego
to get in my way that look what I did and look
what I've accomplished and look who I helped
and look who I you know, whatever sure and I
remember being in a meeting one time and somebody
saying, you know what ego is? A meeting of? Alcoholics
Anonymous. Well, it was a 12 -step recovery in
the LDS. Okay, yeah. Back in the 90s and early
2000s when I was a very faithful attender. Back
when you were the OG. Yeah. Anyway, back to ego.
brought up that ego means edging God out because
you know what I think I know better and I don't
need him and I think that's where that humility
and that brokenness is really such a gift because
I've said it before and I always show it but
a broken heart is an open heart and a broken
human is an open human. I mean, we've got to
come down here and be battered and bruised and
torn. Just, I mean, literally, we have to have
these experiences so that we understand and can
grow and then realize, oh, we do have a savior
that saves us. I can't save myself. Nobody else
can save me, but I know who can. And that's what
we have to come to understand. Right. That's
the whole, in my mind, that's the whole purpose
of the fall of Adam and Eve is so that we will
understand our complete and utter absolute absolute
complete and utter dependence on Jesus Christ
and his power that's made available to us through
his atonement there's no addiction that can be
overcome there's no there's no abuse that can
be dealt with there's no PTSD that can be reconciled
quite the way that it can through the power of
Jesus Christ and his atonement. And that's why
this is so important to me, Deb. For so many
years, 19 years, I was going back and forth and
back and forth because I'm fallen and because
I am quite rebellious, which is also a problem
because of the fall for me. Some of us just are.
Our personalities are just that way. We're just.
because of the fall of Adam and Eve. We have
certain predispositions. I just believe that.
But for 19 years, I had a testimony, and I was
trying to be a good kid and go to church and
do those kinds of things, but I couldn't quit
drinking. I couldn't quit doing a whole bunch
of other things. And I just thought that I was
broken. that I had gone too far, that there was
no way that I could because I couldn't get my
stuff together. I couldn't get the discipline
I needed. I couldn't, you know, I mean, it talks
about it. You just read what Elder Anderson said
about our discipline. Yeah. And because I couldn't
pull my discipline together and I still hear
that because I couldn't do that. I was like,
well, this isn't for me. And it took, you know,
a couple of membership councils and a whole bunch
of other things. Today, I'm so grateful that
I have a different set of eyes to see this through.
But for those of us who are struggling and beating
ourselves up and feeling like I'm just never
gonna get this thing, it's okay. It's okay. We
may never totally get this thing, whatever this
thing is to you, but it's okay. Because what
we're gonna find out as we go through the next
few episodes and get well into the podcast here
at least What we're gonna find out is it's okay
And there's a process in place for us where we
can be reconciled Where we can still have peace
because we've been purchased. We've been redeemed
through the blood of Jesus Christ And I feel
like the more experiences we have with though
with that immortality with the brokenness and
the hardness. I think it, you know, we have enough
broken spots on us and we allow the Savior to
mend. I just think of those shattered vases and
bowls that people, you know, like literally just
bust into millions of pieces. And it's not that
He's changing our hearts. He's giving us a new
heart. He literally, I mean, repentance is change.
And he is changing us to who we really are. Because
we came, we come down here and get beat up a
little bit. I'm going to read one more quote
out of the book, page 68. It says, You are now
here on earth, a glorious son or daughter of
God. You have entered a mortal world with all
the deficiencies, temptations, and enticements
of a secondary existence where Satan and his
followers are allowed to tempt you, to seduce
you, and to ensnare you. While you have made
mistakes, these sins do not describe who you
are. Your identity is not defined by the sins
of the world but by the righteousness of another.
Finding yourself here with the sins of failings
of the difficult, difficult probationary state,
your soul cries out for divine help. This is
our brokenness. This is where we cry out. Deep
in your soul, you yearn for a redeemer, a savior
to find your way back to your heavenly home.
The fall does not define you. It helps refine
you. And I think it goes back to that sweet little
story about Jessica being homesick, because that's
really where we all will end up, is in our heavenly
home. This is not our permanent home. I think
next week we can kind of wrap up this part of
it. We will be talking about this in our institute
class this week. So this will be a good timing
for us. But Deb, I think just before we wrap
up today, this is really important for me. To
understand the fall of Adam and Eve. is probably
what really changed everything for me. I think
I've said this before, I've had a testimony as
long as I can remember. And how that came about,
I don't know and I don't care, I had one and
have had all my life. But conversion didn't come
for me really. I mean there were bits and pieces
of conversion and I know that I'm still in the
process of conversion because conversion literally
means to change and I'm still trying and making
effort through Jesus Christ and his sacrifice
to make those changes. But this is where it changed
for me. This is where I began to really see myself.
When I understood the fall it made it easier
to see myself as a loving as a loved, rather,
child of heavenly parents, when I understood
the fall. When I really understood that, you
know what, Scott, it's okay. You're supposed
to want to drink, dummy. And the heavenly father's
not mad at you. He's not surprised. You're supposed
to want to sin. You're supposed to have, and
whatever that is. And you're supposed to turn
to him. And I'm so grateful to know that today.
to know I'm not broken, to know that when I have
these feelings and these thoughts and these impressions
and these inadequacies and on and on and on,
that it's okay, that it's just a lie. And it
doesn't define you. No, that's not who I am.
Well, so, as we wrap it up, like we always do,
wherever you are, however you're feeling, we
just hope you know you're welcome to be with
us. We hope you feel Jesus' love for you. He's
not waiting for you to clean up everything before
you come to Him. He just wants you to come to
Him. Yeah, broken and all. He meets us in the
middle of our mess. That's where His grace truly
shines. So come as you are, broken and open,
hopeful, questioning, searching. You're not alone.
We'd love that if you'd stay connected with us.
Appreciate the, we've got many already emails,
appreciate the words of encouragement and all
of that. And just continue to ask you to continue
to do that for us. Also, if you have any questions,
maybe share an experience with us, a time when...
understanding your fallenness has been a blessing
to you, and maybe a question of, hey, my fallenness
doesn't feel like a blessing, and we can talk
about that more as well. And if this episode
touched your heart, we hope you'll share it with
someone you love, a friend, a family member,
anyone who could use a little bit more hope right
now. So next week, we're gonna talk more about
how the Savior doesn't just redeem us, He heals
us, He lifts us, He transforms us, and He does
it in everyday life. That's kind of amazing to
me. He does it in everyday life, not just in
our church life, not just in our whatever, but
in our everyday life. I love that. Thanks for
being with us, friends. And remember, there's
always hope through him because you have truly
been redeemed through his blood. Thanks for being
with us. See you next time.