Welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through
His Blood. I'm Scott Durfey, and I have a couple
of guests with me today, one that you're pretty
accustomed to. Hi, Dave. Yeah. Probably bored
with. Not even close. David Durfey, how are you
David? I'm good, Scott. I'm good. This is my,
my last podcast for a while. Oh man. Yeah, that.
For a while we'll. That brings up. Pick it up
when I get home from Australia and I'll have
lots of stories to. Sure. Yeah, that'll be awesome,
too. I can tell you about spiders and all kinds
of things. Yeah, we can't wait. I experience
in Australia. For sure. I hope to have at least
one kangaroo story. Yeah. Maybe a koala. For
sure. Yeah. Maybe a wombat. I don't know. That's
my extended knowledge of Australia. Yeah. And
koalas. They have koalas and all kinds of things
that I hope to see. Yeah, I hope you do too.
Well, so yeah, we're gonna miss Dave. This has
been an amazing experience over the last few
years and thankful to you, Scott. Man, I can't
tell you this kind of become the Holy of Holies.
Yeah, for me, too. This little room and all the
yeah, this little room does kind of facilitate
a lot of growth and healing. I worked a fifth
step with the Young man here just recently and
I'll be doing another one You know what's the
fifth step steps where we talk about all that
that's our personal inventory Okay in alcoholics
anonymous the four steps. We take a personal
inventory We acknowledge everything we've done
wrong. We know and things that have done, too
We just it's just an inventory and then we share
that where do you make the list where? And step
four? Yeah, four. Make a list of all the people
that you hurt and offended. No, that's eight.
Step four is made a personal inventory. That's
where I hear a lot of people get hung up is on
eight. Oh yeah, yeah. Well, eight, four and five
too. If somebody doesn't do four and five, they
won't get sober. And it's the same with eight
and nine. Eight and nine are tied together, but
that's not the purpose of our podcast today.
I'm super excited to have my sweetheart with
us today. You know, we talk about the holy of
this room kind of being, I hate to call it a
holy of holies, but it does have a sacred feel
to it. But when Deb comes in this room, that
elevates. Yeah, for sure. That even gets higher.
Also gets better looking. And that was my next
comment, for sure. As handsome as Dave is, to
have Deb sitting across from me for the next
year and a half, and maybe even beyond that,
maybe we'll be a trio then, who knows? But I'm
really looking forward to it. Hi, Deb. Hello.
Hi, everyone. Say hi to everybody, will you?
Hello, everyone. Yeah, Deb's been a little bit,
I don't know if I'd use the word apprehensive.
Oh, you could use apprehensive, for sure. A little
bit apprehensive to do. You wanna tell us why
you're doing it? So I, in the past I just kept
saying no, absolutely not. No, no, you and Dave
would do a great job. But I think it's because
Dave and I have the same initials. Deb Durfey,
Dave Durfee, I think that's kind of what happened.
That's gotta be it. DD. Yeah. We're the DDs.
No, I really did resist a lot. And when you said,
you know what, pray about it. And I even was
resistant about that. But when I finally did
pray about it, I had an overwhelming, a very
overwhelming feeling of you can do hard things.
And I also tell my institute, our institute kids.
No growing in the comfort zone and no comfort
in the growing zone. So just so you know, I'm
very uncomfortable. Looking forward to growth.
That's good. A lot of growth. A lot of growth.
Well, super excited to have you, sweetheart.
So this week, we will be releasing. This is our
this is our final episode of season three. We'll
begin season four when Deb and I begin recording,
hopefully next week. But we began season one,
episode one, I believe, was actually on Easter.
And so how appropriate, Dave, that here we are.
You know, first shall be last and the last shall
be first. Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So we started
this way. I'm going to finish this way. So grateful
that Deb's going to continue. But yes, Scott,
and that seems to be appropriate because I think
the heart and center of everything that we do
on this podcast is just that one needful thing
that, you know, our faith in Jesus Christ and
really understanding His life. There's, I think,
such an important part of our faith in Christ.
It's not really enough if you want the faith
of power in Christ to just know that He died
for you and that He was resurrected. I mean,
if you really want faith in the Lord Jesus Christ
and His Atonement, you have to study it. You
have to. Because there's a spirit behind it.
It's not necessarily knowing the facts about
it. It's the spirit that comes by by studying
it and by Having a vision and and kind of seeing
it with the eye of faith You know what he what
he actually did and the last week of his life
this You know this Easter season that we're celebrating
is is really the major focus of all the gospel
writers It's interesting, Scott, that, for example,
the Gospel of John, 40 % of the Gospel of John,
more than 40 % of the Gospel of John is spent
on the last week of the Savior's life. Now, the
Savior lived 33 years. Out of 33 years, He spends
almost half of His Gospel just describing the
last week of the Savior's life. That's important,
and John wrote for the saints. You know, Matthew
wrote for the Jews, and Mark was for the Romans,
and Luke for the Gentiles, and John, he wrote
to the church. And here we are at the church.
The Gospel of John was for us, and he spends
half of his Gospel describing the last week.
I think that's really an important aspect of
my faith, is understanding the week of Easter.
And I think that if we would all study it as
individuals and families, it would strengthen
our faith in Jesus Christ, which leads to repentance,
which is the beginning of the doctrine of Christ.
So, anyway, I'm really thankful that we started
that way, and I'm thankful that we're going to
end that way. Talking about the events of the
last week. I've been thinking about this a lot
over the last couple of days. This episode being
together, you know, kind of for the last time
in a year and a half for a year and a half. And
obviously there's some emotion attached to that,
too. But where the real emotion for me comes
as we prepared. you know, have been preparing
for this podcast. And I think the way we prepare
for this podcast is the way we should be preparing
for life. It's just really, as you said, diving
in and really making a study of not just what
he said, not just what he did, but maybe even,
you know, accepting the invitation to look unto
me in every thought like we read about in Doctrine
and Covenants 6, but then to follow that up to,
you know, fill the prints of the nails in my
hands and my feet and to actually go there. You
know, we've talked right from the very beginning,
David, gratitude. Can really grow our desire
to follow him to be like him and I think it's
through that study And that's the beginning of
everything Scott it all comes down to desire
Really? I mean the reason people do what they
do is because of desire and yeah If in fact as
I have learned for myself at least for me It's
true that gratitude is always the beginning of
desire and if I lack if I lack desire it's because
I can go back to the source. I lack gratitude.
And if I can change that, I can change my desires.
That's true for me. I've seen that be true for
other individuals. I think that's an absolute
principle and fact, an absolute truth. So studying
the last week, it ought to fill us with gratitude,
which then will increase our desires to be disciples.
So, you know, this is this is awesome and I know
it takes time to do that and people need to slow
down and Spend maybe a little less time focusing
upon the worldly aspects of Easter and to really
focus upon the the spiritual aspects of Easter
That would make such a difference all the difference,
right? That would probably make all the difference.
I love how and Deb's had a lot of comments around
this maybe W you'd chime in here, but, um, we,
uh, we just finished conference, general conference,
April, 2025 just came to completion. Wow. Right.
I mean, you know, all the, all the stuff that
we talk about in the podcast, David, um, was
talked about in conference, uh, and, and, you
know, with even greater authority and conviction
as it's coming through. But, you know, the things
that we learned there, one of the main things
that was really emphasized there was our worshipful
attitudes around the Easter season. Deb, you've
had some experiences with that this year, some
internal experiences, maybe some external experiences.
Share those with us. Yeah, about three years
ago, I was asked to give a talk in sacrament
meeting about Easter. And there were two of us
that spoke in church and the gentleman that spoke
before me took the entire meeting. I had two
minutes to deliver my message at the end and
I I I sat there and I thought wow this is really
sad because I really learned a lot. And then
I just push pause and reflected on what a gift
that was for me to dig and to search and and
to really look at. the events of Easter and the
traditions of Easter and the Holy Week and the
Savior's life. And each year since, and even
we had the opportunity to go to Israel and walk
on those holy grounds, oh my word, and to be
able to be on the Sea of Galilee and just feel,
touch, and I'm more of a feel person. You'll
notice I am not a huge word person and so I have
a hard time sometimes articulating exactly what
I'm feeling but the things that were so amazing
for me in from that moment up until even this
Easter is just the fact that This Easter season,
I have been very present and intentional on paying
attention to those bright colors that come out
of that dead ground. Paying attention to the
blossoms that come out on the tree and how everything
points to Christ. Everything. And I just I love
how on that we were able to. Right, go. Listen.
to conference and every single speaker testified
of Jesus Christ, talked about his life. And I
remember in April of 2023 when Bonnie Corden
talked about never give up the opportunity to
testify of Jesus Christ. And I just think what
a gift and what an opportunity to not only sit
at the feet of these disciples and prophets but
to feel that the Holy Ghost testify to me and
then to be able to even look forward to Holy
Week. I mean in this Sunday is Palm Sunday and
my intention is to hyper focus on the events
of Palm Sunday. Anyway, it's been, I've had a
lot of feels. That's really awesome. That's sweet,
Deb. I'm so thankful for the church and the little
course of correction that President Nelson has
made in the church in celebrating Easter. You
know, I have felt that for so many years that
we do such a great job, you know, celebrating
Christmas, but Wow, we haven't been very good
celebrating Easter, and that's changing in the
church, which I'm so grateful for. I think it
really all started maybe with President Hinckley's
statement years ago, you know, when he said that
there would be no Christmas if there would have
been no Easter. And that kind of began the ball
rolling, and I think every year we get a little
better. I'm really thankful that every day of
this coming week, beginning with the triumphal
entry on Sunday, Palm Sunday, that we have videos
to watch and references to study. I know I used
to make my own and hand them out this time of
year to my classes and faculty, and that's all
done. done now on the Church's website, which
is so, so great with videos to accompany those
events. So we are doing so good. And there, you
know, there's another tradition. Let's talk about
just Easter in general for a minute here, Scott.
I think one thing people always wonder, a question
I used to always get asked, is why is Easter
on a different weekend every year? Why is the
date, you know, Christmas is always on the 25th
of December, but Easter is always on a different
day every year. And the reason that is, is because
of, we follow, to try to be a little more accurate,
we follow the Jewish lunar calendar, which is
determined by the moon and not the Roman solar
calendar. And so based upon the lunar calendar,
Easter is always the first Sunday after the first
full moon after spring equinox. So spring equinox,
right, is March 21st. First full moon after that,
whenever that is, and then the first Sunday after
that. Always is when we celebrate Easter. And
there's some Eastern Orthodox churches and a
few other religions, they have a little bit different
Easter because they go by the Julian calendar,
and we go by the Gregorian calendar. So some
people might find it strange why Easter is listed
twice. their calendar, if they look at it, and
one is for the Orthodox Eastern religions, which
go by the Julian calendar. Caesar, Julius Caesar,
started a calendar, which is not as accurate
as the Gregorian calendar, which Pope Gregory
started in about 1500. And anyway, so it's kind
of interesting to understand that, but I I just
really want us today to get into the last events
of Easter and to celebrate it as a week, not
as a day, but Easter season. First time I heard
the term Easter season was Elder Holland in general
conference about seven, eight, nine years ago.
He said we should celebrate it as a season. True.
I have a friend that I grew up with. You know
who they are probably, but his family was Greek
Orthodox. He wasn't Buddhist. And so they celebrated
Orthodox Easter. Yeah. And it was incredible.
You know, some of the Greek Orthodox religions
have really great Easter traditions. And one
of them, which I wish my own family would adopt,
is that on Easter, and then for 40 days after,
that whenever they greeted someone, they would
say, he is risen. And the other person would
say, indeed, he is risen. That was the formal
way they would greet one another, or truly, he
is risen. And they would say that for 40 days
from the time of Easter and the resurrection
until his ascension. 40 days, you know, when
He came back and then 40 days ascended. They
would say that for 40 days. That would be the
kind of the formal greeting. And I thought, man,
I wish my own family could do that. You know,
they would say, Christ is risen or He is risen.
Indeed, He is risen. We're gonna practice that,
Scott. 40 days after Easter. I'm down for 40
days. And then, you know, for 40 days before
Easter, the Protestants and Catholics celebrate
Lent, where they sacrifice something, give up
something, thinking about the coming of Easter.
I mean, you know, if you did that 40 days before
and 40 days after, you got three months. Almost
three months of an Easter season and I just wish
We could expand it even from a week. Yeah two
weeks Yeah of celebrating Easter. We do Christmas.
Yeah, but we start celebrating Christmas now
after Halloween Yeah, but it's not we don't celebrate
it. We commercialize it I know I don't I don't
well that never happened. We start listening
at least to music. Yeah Okay, you do. Yeah, I
do right after Halloween Deb does too, actually.
I've actually had Christmas songs in my head.
Yeah, yeah. Well, so, you know, the traditions,
traditions of Easter and all of us should just
kind of review that and try to make our own family
Easter traditions that would point our minds
and our hearts to the Savior. Agreed. Well, Dave,
then I think maybe a way, I don't know the best
way, but a way to kind of approach our recognition,
even our worship, even our being with Easter,
beginning Sunday. I mean, it's beginning for
all of us, probably has quite a bit ago, you
know, especially with conference, general conference
just having passed. But Dave, I think as we prepare,
I remember a Palm Sunday, Deb and I went, we
were in Dallas, Texas at a friend's home. They're
very, very strong. religious Protestant people
and we went with them to a Palm Sunday experience.
That was just an amazing experience for us, Deb,
wasn't it? And then... I love how they teed up
the entire week with that celebration, that worship
of Heavenly Father and Jesus because of what
He did beginning on that Palm Sunday. So maybe
we just take each day, kind of go through each
day of the Holy Week. You've got a lot of insights
for us. I think Deb does as well. So maybe let's
just, can we just? Yeah, let's start with Sunday.
Palm Sunday, so we call this triumphal entry
the triumphal entry. Yeah wipe wipe home. What's
the poem? Yeah, so the palms this is really cool
this and you know and I knew this but to have
a Physical learning experience with this we had
that in Texas when we were there on Palm Sunday.
We waved the palms You know, so what this is,
so Palm Sunday, the waving of palms is a way
to recognize royalty. Yeah, they would wave them
and they would lay them in front of his white
donkey. It was like rolling out the red carpet.
Yeah. So they'd place down these palm leaves.
in front of Jesus as he rode into Jerusalem on
a white donkey, which was a kind of a reenactment
of David. And it was fulfilling of Zechariah's
prophecy too. Prophecy as well as a reenactment
of the King David as he rode into Bethlehem and
established his kingship over Israel. It was
symbolic of all of that. I also don't think it's
a coincidence. That a palm is a palm Like if
you think of the palm of the hand if we wave
our hands I mean there's things we do with our
hands and our palms in the church as well waving
or raising or I That just came to me. Well, that's
what's the scripture. I have I have engraved
thee upon the palms of my hands Isaiah in the
Book of Mormon And we sustain and we testify
with our palms as one. Yeah. That's awesome.
That's great. Many of these people in this procession,
as they witnessed, there would have been a throng
of them. This is also Passover, Scott and Deb.
And there would have been millions of people
in Jerusalem at this time who have come back
for Passover. They're celebrating Passover, you
know, this week. as will all of the Jews all
over the world celebrate Passover this week.
And anyway, as he comes in with all of these
people, and I don't know how many were actually
in the parade or following him or lined the streets,
but there would have been probably thousands.
And many of them are raising their palms and...
and laying palms and celebrating this, and they
are shouting, Hosanna! You know, they're, Hosanna,
save us! They're recognizing Him as the Savior
and Redeemer. But by the end of this week, there
will be another crowd, and maybe some of the
same people in that crowd who are chanting, crucify
Him. crucify him. So what happened in that week
to change him from a celebration and Hosanna
to the end of the week seeking to destroy his
life, chanting crucify him? I just think that's
a fascinating way to kind of couch this last
week, how it starts and then how it goes downhill
and how it ends, and really not downhill, because
this was all, of course, the way God had designed
it would go, and Jesus kind of makes that happen
by calling out the Jews, and this is where all
hell really, really breaks loose by the end of
the week. So Sunday he comes and rides in triumphal
entry. He's probably at the evening staying with
Mary and Martha and Lazarus in Bethany or nearby.
It's assumed that he's staying with them. There
are probably many others of his friends and family
who are staying there or in the area, including
his mother Mary. His father Joseph has probably
passed. and would probably be one of the first
to greet Him when He dies on Friday. Joseph,
the carpenter. Anyway, so Jesus is staying in
Bethany, and every day He's going to go into
Jerusalem except Wednesday, and Wednesday is
probably just a day of rest. On Monday, as He,
with some of His disciples and followers, goes
into Jerusalem, just outside of Jerusalem. Bethany,
by the way, is about six miles south of Jerusalem,
so this would be quite a walk, really. They'd
start early in the morning in order to get there.
They passed a victory, and I just think it's
so interesting that Jesus, everything Jesus touched,
you know, He healed. He was always healing things.
We only know one thing that he killed, and that
was a victory. And it was a powerful, powerful
symbol. So he curses his victory, and the reason
he curses it is because there's no fruit. It's
bearing no fruit. This is the spring of the year.
There's probably no blossoms on it, really. It's
not that it's too early for there to be really
fruit, but it's just he knows it's going to be
barren. He says something about that, and then
he curses it. And when they go back near the
end of the day or the next day, they comment
that the tree is dead. Really like what he says
about that that You know that we are not we're
not born to be fig trees Baron fig trees, we're
not born to be shade trees you know we are we
are to be examples and doers of the word and
to be To be bare to be bearing fruit to be to
be fruitful So anyway, that's that's what happens
on Monday and then he goes to the temple immediately
Arriving in Jerusalem and and there they are
Because it's Passover again. There's the money
changers because people from the Jews have come
from all over You know hundreds of miles from
all over the Middle East to celebrate the Passover
and there's the money changers the Jewish leaders
making money off those travelers by Trading in
their money for temple coins It's just so corrupt
and Jesus hates that and so for the second time
second recorded time I Think he actually did
it every Passover. I just don't think it's recorded,
but I think he every Passover he did this and
he turns over the tables and he condemns this
practice, and this was maybe the third strike
for the Jewish leaders. So that really started
the despise of the Jewish leaders. They had been
trying to kill him really since Lazarus' resurrection,
you know, that miracle. They knew then that it
was not going to be enough to just argue with
him or debate him or try to disprove him. The
only way they were going to be able to overthrow
his authority and the threat that he was. The
only way they could put down the threat to their
establishment was to kill him. So really they
were trying to not just kill Jesus. But they
were trying to kill Lazarus. Yeah. And this had
been really their their plan. They had a plan
and they were ready to put it into place. So
it's not just that Jesus overthrew some money
changers tables that made them want to kill him.
They had been really actively planning this for
the last six months. Yeah, trying to put it together.
And why would they wanting be wanting to kill
Lazarus, Dave? Well, because he was that he was.
physical evidence. He was physical evidence that
Jesus was a God. Because he had been risen from
the dead. Jesus had intentionally waited three
days to do that when the spirit would leave the
body according to Jewish beliefs. Wow, what a
miracle of miracles. Lazarus was so so there
was a conspiracy to kill both of them. I want
to back up just a little bit I want to read from
Matthew chapter 21 This is beginning in verse
12 and Jesus went into the temple of God and
cast all all them that sold and bought in the
temple and Overthrew the tables of the money
changers and the seats of them that sold doves
And he said unto them it is written my house
why doves because this was an offering for the
poor the poor You know that if you didn't have
a lamb you could offer some doves So, you know
the and if you didn't have a dove with you you
would come to Jerusalem and you wouldn't through
the money The doves so that you would have that
the Jewish leaders ripping people off So he's
then he says in my house my house is called the
house of prayer and you've made it a den of thieves
OK, I mean, so there's the story. That's not
where the story ends. Right. So we think of this
this Jesus who has had this experience and some
people I've even seen it portrayed on film and
whatnot that he was really angry. I don't think
that that's how he was. I know Jesus would have
been in total control. I think his anger and
my anger are not. They're just different experiences.
And so he has this experience. But then in 14,
and the blind and the lame came to the temple
and he healed them. So it wasn't a destructive
Jesus. It was a healing Jesus. And even what
may appear to be destructive was healing. It
was healing the house of the Lord, changing it
from a den of thieves to the house of the Lord.
It's the only time really that we get some idea
that Jesus was the wrath of Jesus. I think Jesus
was angry, but not the way we would be angry.
He wouldn't feel what we were feeling, and he
certainly wasn't out of control in his emotions
or his actions. But this is the wrath of Jesus,
and it's evidence of what he feels. about the
house of the Lord, or the house of Elohim, the
house of God, and it's so sacred to Him. And
for these people to come in and bring animals
and turn it into some mall or courtyard where
people are making money and not even honestly,
it infuriates Him, really. This causes me to
self -reflect on what I take into the temple
because sometimes I am in a hurry when I enter
the temple and sometimes Not necessarily maybe
a resentment of some crazy driver that got in
my way. So now I'm gonna be late for whatever
session I'm trying to hurry to or whatever. Yeah,
but you know what? It really helps. I mean that
makes me self -reflect on what I treating the
temple in a holier way. Are you taking in commercial,
worldly thoughts? Yes, absolutely. It's not just
what you so much wear into the temple, but the
thoughts and emotions that you have going into
the temple. Hundred percent. Yeah. That's good.
If you're going to go to the house of the Lord,
He wants it to be humble, and He wants it to
be holy, and He wants it to be honest. And then
He does those healings in the temple, right,
on Monday? and they return back to Bethany. So
we don't have a lot recorded on Monday. On Tuesday,
Scott, we have so much recorded, especially in
the book of Matthew, on what he does on Tuesday.
I mean, we have where he, in chapter 23, he goes
again to the temple and he really lets the...
the Sadducees, and the Pharisees, and the Sanhedrin.
He really lets them have it. I mean, it's scathing,
you know, to call them, you know, whited sepulchers,
and he just calls them out, you know, hypocrites.
He condemns in every way possible, and I'm sure
some of it's not even recorded, of the hatred.
I don't think that's too strong a word here.
the one thing He hated more than anything else
was their self -righteousness. I think that's
true for... And hypocrisy, right? Hypocrisy and
self -righteousness. There's nothing that I think
Jesus hates more than that. More than anything,
He hates that. And He just really lets them have
it in Matthew chapter 23. To me, it's probably
one of my least favorite chapters in the New
Testament. It's uncomfortable, and to be honest,
I know it's true, and I know that the Spirit
of the Lord can testify that it's true, but it's
kind of hard to read. Anyway, that's Matthew
23, and then after all of that, that just infuriates
the Jewish authorities, and man, before the end
of this week, they're going to make sure that
he's dead. So doesn't doesn't he on this day
also? Fortel the destruction of the temple so
He brings that up. He's brought that up before
yeah, you know he brought that up Six months
to a year before Scott that a temple be destroyed
in three or days. I'll raise it up he talks about
that as a Prophecy to his disciples to the Jews
in another previous to coming to Jerusalem. But
anyway, and that evening, so poignant that he
goes up on the Mount of Olives. Oh, Jerusalem,
Jerusalem, how I've loved you and would have
gathered you as a hand gathers her chicks, but
you would not. And it's also that evening on
Tuesday evening where we get Matthew 24. which
is really, I think, more accurate and better
read in Joseph Smith Matthew. Joseph Smith Matthew
is Matthew, the Joseph Smith translation of Matthew
chapter 24 given on Tuesday, where he talks about
his second coming. And he's with just his disciples
here, and they ask him, and he gives them Matthew
chapter 24. So I really love that. chapter, especially
studied in Joseph Smith Matthew. So that's Tuesday,
and that evening they go home probably very late.
Tuesday is a big day, and there's lots recorded
on what Jesus did on Tuesday. On Wednesday, we
don't have really anything recorded on Wednesday,
Scott. He just rests with his friends. This is
his last day to be with them, really. He knows
that after after Wednesday, it's going to go
downhill pretty fast. And so he's just with his
mother, Mary, and his best friends and his closest
disciples, his apostles. Someday I hope to have
a record of some of those events on Wednesday,
which were maybe too sacred for them to... to
share with us. There's a lot of stuff going on
behind the scenes Wednesday, too. Yeah. Yeah,
there's a conspiracy continues. Exactly. Continues.
Judas kind of finalizes his betrayal for 30 pieces
of silver. Right. Yeah. So the Jews are conspiring
and Judas as well. And Judas has made his deal
to betray Jesus for 30 pieces of silver. also
a prophecy fulfilled, and 30 pieces of silver,
a price of a slave. So, a lot of symbolism there,
and that's taking place on Wednesday. On Thursday,
Jesus tells Peter and John to make arrangements
for their Passover celebration. So they go in,
and following Jesus' instructions, they find
a man, which is probably John Mark, or same Mark,
we believe, as who wrote the Gospels, that he's
got a room for them, a home where they can meet.
John is his Jewish name, Mark is his Greek name.
like to know more about him. He was a companion
of Paul, and there's some history in several
verses, several passages that talk about Mark
and Paul's letters. But they find him, and they
have these signs, and the room is prepared for
the Last Supper. They, Thursday, go probably
in the afternoon towards evening. The Passover
will begin. When they see three stars is really
when the next day begins. So Thursday, for us,
Thursday goes until midnight, right? Thursday
for them goes until dusk. And so, you know, sometimes
chronologies of the gospel, you have to keep
this in mind, that the real Friday begins when
dusk on Thursday begins. And it goes until the
following evening. They don't go from midnight
to midnight. They go from dusk to dusk. So on
Thursday is when they're killing the lambs. And
they estimate, Scott, I read this the other day,
they estimate that there would have been like
260 ,000 lambs. Can you imagine the blood in
the streets? to celebrate the Passover. I mean,
that's crazy to think about that, but that was
one estimate. And all of this is going on, and
so they'll have lamb, the apostles, they're going
to follow the Jewish tradition. This will be
the last Passover. This Passover will be the
last because Jesus fulfills the law. And there
will be a new supper. There will be the new emblems
of the sacrament that will be introduced to the
disciples. And the slaughtering of lambs and
the sacrifice of animals will end. And Jesus
will make that pretty clear in the Last Supper
Thursday night, or for them, that would be the
beginning of Friday. Yeah. Even a new covenant,
right? A new covenant. And He fulfills the law.
And he tells them, it's not just enough to love
God and your neighbor. I want you to love others
as I have loved. A new commandment, he says.
A new commandment I give to you that you love
one another as I have loved you. There's five
chapters in John on the Last Supper. Five chapters.
There's no one event. we know more about than
the Last Supper because of John recording that.
Five chapters of his 21 chapters. There's only
21 chapters in the Gospel of John, and five of
them are on the Last Supper. By the way, some
people may wonder, how can the chosen, the people
that do the chosen, make a whole movie on the
Last Supper? Well, that's why, because John recorded
almost everything that happened there. Oh man,
it's really amazing. So grateful for that too.
Yeah, and there's so much to learn from it. Jesus
washing their feet. This is a sacred ordinance.
Nobody should be doing this in a Sunday school
class. I've heard of that before, that a Sunday
school teacher celebrating Easter wanted to wash
his... His kids' feet. This is a sacred ordinance
that should be so holy and sacred that it's only
really preserved for the temple, to be honest.
The washing and the anointing and those kinds
of things should only be done in very sacred
places by those in authority. But Jesus does
this to introduce the fulfillment of the law
in a really sacred We've already had opportunity
throughout Jesus' life to see inside the man
Jesus, inside his character and attributes and
perfections and all those things. We've had that
opportunity throughout his life. But today, in
this instance, Dave, we get a glimpse that blows
me away. You know, if I really think about it
through mortal eyes and through my fallen self,
it just blows me away. Jesus knew that Judas
was going to betray him. Mm -hmm and had already
in fact done so right? Jesus washed the feet
of Judas. Yeah, he does You know if you read
other McConkey's mortal Messiah, he has he kind
of puts them He kind of arranges that the seating
they'll be kind of seated in a square. They're
not they're not like Leonardo da Vinci's painting
the Last Supper where they're all on just one
long table. Like we would probably eat a feast
on one long table. This is on kind of a square.
The Last Supper probably would have had four
tables set up in something of a square or something
like that. And they had this tradition that they
would partake of the Passover meal. Leaning,
sitting, the tables would be very low. Sometimes
they would even be they would tie ropes from
the ceiling to the table so that nothing would
touch the floor. I mean, all of that could have
been symbolic, but Elder McConkie puts Judas
to the left of Jesus so that Jesus is leaning
on his left side. All the disciples are leaning
on their left side, kind of laying as they partake
of the Last Supper. By tradition and Jesus follows
this tradition and they're laying on these pillows
and on their left side and You know after washing
their feet including Judas's right He identifies
his betrayer. Yep, and he probably Judas wants
to be to his left because Judas There has been
some contention Before the Last Supper really
began the disciples were arguing about who's
the most prominent and who gets to set where.
Elder McConkie speculates that Judas started
all of that. That his guilt had gotten the best
of him and that he was really speculating about
him being the most prominent and that he was
going to, in Elder McConkie's mind, his betrayal
as evil and as wicked as it was, that he thought,
Judas perhaps, thought that by him betraying
Jesus, that Jesus was really going to prove to
the Jews once and for all that he could save
himself. Having no idea by the spirit of the
mind and will of God, Judas was trying to be
most prominent. By selling them out being the
treasurer of the 12 and sell out Jesus believing
that Jesus would really Prove himself and if
he didn't maybe he really wasn't the Christ after
all. Yeah. Yeah, I mean Anyway, he's probably
setting to his left and Jesus whispers and identifies
him as the betrayer and he gets up and leaves
before Jesus Initiates the sacrament Judas is
gone after having his feet washed And then Jesus,
some of His greatest teachings, right, are in
the Last Supper, which Gratefully John recorded,
about the Comforter, the Second Comforter, and
the Holy Ghost, and all of these great discourses
that He gives to the Twelve. And then it gets
up to chapter 17, where we have the greatest
prayer, I mean, we have the disciples in 3rd
Nephi felt like they cannot record the words
of the prayer Jesus uttered because it was too
sacred, but we have the great intercessory prayer
recorded in John chapter 17, which is amazing
that to be able to hear the Son of God pray to
His Father. Anyway, I Everyone should study the
Great Intercessory Prayer on Thursday, if you're
studying what happens day by day. I just really
love that. And, you know, this is life eternal.
Jesus praying to the Father, this is where He
says that. This is life eternal, that they might
know Thee, Father, and the Son, Jesus Christ,
whom Thou hast sent. I mean, I... that we see
so much of Jesus and His prayer for the disciples
to be one as the Father and the Son are one.
And then, after the prayer and the sacrament
and all that takes place in that upper room,
Scott, they sing the halil, which is from Psalms
in preparation as tradition, Jewish tradition,
and they sing some hymns. And they leave, and
they walk over to Gethsemane. That's Thursday,
and Gethsemane happens that night. Which again,
for the Jews, is really Friday. But I don't know
where people will be Thursday. Thursday night,
we should all be thinking about the events of
the Last Supper and Gethsemane. Specifically,
the Last Supper is super important, but Gethsemane,
again, this is where he invites us to see him.
And this is really the second, the first being
his sinless life, but the second event, the Atonement
of Jesus Christ, Dave, is what's about to take
place here in Gethsemane. Yeah, absolutely. Do
you have any thoughts on the Last Supper? We
didn't cover all of that or take enough time
on it. My personal thought is the more I reflect
and I look upon, I mean, when we were in Israel,
I'm gonna go back to that, they had a Seder plate
and they had all of the different things. Did
you guys take the Passover in? No. Did they do
that for you? No. But the more I study into that,
there are so many different views on what that
means in all different types of religions. And
I would love to study even more because I'm I
don't know enough. But the thing that has been
so impactful for me is how it integrates and
strengthens my testimony of the Last Supper,
combining with this the sacrament and how it
is Such a huge part of my worship every single
Sunday. Yeah That's awesome You know the Passover
we don't need to go into this right now But the
Passover have been been practiced among the Jews
for 1 ,500 years. Yeah You know, it was not something
Abraham did. It's not something that Noah did.
This all started under Moses and leading the
children of Israel out of Egypt, freeing the
children of Israel and the Passover, the angels,
the destroying angel, passing over the Israelites
because they had put blood, Lamb's blood on the
doorposts of their home, which saved their firstborn.
Son I mean there's so much symbolism about that
there right the lamb of God firstborn son the
blood of the blood and and and this is what this
is what they had celebrated for 1500 years and
Jesus fulfills it because he's he's the lamb
of God and He's going to die and his blood is
going to be spilled and there's no sense in celebrating
What happened in Egypt? We're going to start
celebrating this new Passover which is my death,
which is my blood, which will be spilled, and
that's the sacrament. You're going to take a
little piece of bread representing His flesh,
and a little glass of wine, which will celebrate
His blood, and those doing, come follow me, know
why we don't do wine, why we do water now. Anyway,
that's going to be in remembrance of me, not
of our liberation from Egypt, but this is going
to celebrate my death. I'm the Savior and Redeemer
of Israel. So anyway, that's all part of that
Last Supper. So he goes to Gethsemane. Gethsemane,
you guys have been there. You've seen those ancient
gnarly olive trees. I have a leaf from one of
those trees right here in my room. Yeah, cool.
Some of them that are kind of fenced and protected
that you can't get by or they say... Those branches
lean over the fences, Dave. Do they? Yeah. Okay.
That's how I got them. When I was there, I would
have done the same thing. Anyway, 2 ,000 years
old and... Don't you wish they could tell us
this story? Yeah, man. Yeah, I sure do. Anyway,
and I remember our visit. We went there at night.
Did you guys go there at night? We went to Gethsemane
at night. That would be cool. It was so cool.
We'd kind of walked over there. It's about a
mile from where the Last Supper was probably.
Right. Yeah. So you had to walk up the hill.
Yeah. Yeah. Man, I just kind of wanted to be
alone. I didn't want to be with the group. So
I just kind of went and found a place where I
could be alone and pray. and it was dark so nobody
could see me. It was really just an unbelievable
experience for me. I can't even imagine. To be
in Gethsemane and try to be a disciple and to
just be there. None of them really witnessed
what He did, and yet He must have told them,
or through the Spirit they knew, because they
describe it. You know, he takes Peter, James,
and John with him. They're about a stone throw
away, right? Stone cast away from where he is.
We're down to 11 apostles now, because Judas
is out doing his dirty deed. Eight of them he
kind of leaves a little further out on the edge
of Gethsemane, the Garden of Gethsemane. He takes
the three, Peter, James, and John, into Gethsemane
with him, the same three who he had taken to
the Medal of Transfiguration. I mean, this was
the first presidency of the church. And he takes
them in with him, then walks away from them about
a stone cast. And according to Matthew, falls
down. He's laid out. He's laid out when he prays.
I wish that we had more paintings of that, and
now I know that Luke says that he knelt down
to pray, and I'm sure he did, but at some point
he is laid out. I wish we had more great paintings
of Jesus in Gethsemane laid out praying. I know
there are some, and they're some of my favorite
paintings of the Atonement, but he's not calmly
With his hands folded or his arms folded kneeling
by a rock By the time this experience is over.
I mean this is this is going to be bad then it's
going to be painful and This is where he cries
out, you know If if there be any other way if
thou be willing You know, let let this pass from
me the bitter cup the bitter cup There's been
so much happened to that we just don't have time
to cover between I know you know between now
And what's about to happen, but but this is where
it really begins Dave this I mean it's begun
already began at his birth as a Thursday night
at 9 p .m. They they actually give us the time
9 p .m. To midnight and sorry hours you know
and I know there's time differences between there
and here But I think it would be good if it not
P .M. on Thursday, we found ourselves in a attitude
and a posture of worshiping because of what happened
on that day. That would be an important tradition,
I think. Luke gives us maybe a little more detail.
Mark gives us some detail, too, where he's laid
out and where he's praying. In Luke 22, Okay
verse what 39 through 44 Well, let's read it.
I love these verses. This is my favorite. This
is my favorite passage about Gethsemane Luke
wouldn't have been there by the way Luke would
not Luke would have learned this from the Apostles
Luke is Probably using Mary's recollect. Yeah
the mother of Jesus records, but he we have this
which he Luke 22, 39. And he came out and went
as he want to the Mount of Olives, and his disciples
also followed him. And when he was at the place,
he told them, pray ye, pray that ye enter not
into temptation. And he was withdrawn from them
about a stone's cast and kneeled down and prayed,
saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this
cup from me. Nevertheless, not my will, but thine
be done. and there appeared an angel unto him
from heaven strengthening him. And being in agony,
he prayed more earnestly and his sweat was, as
it were, great drops of blood falling down to
the ground. Everybody interprets verse 44 a little
differently when it comes to other churches.
I've shared multiple times in these podcasts
my experience. Your experience has been shared
recently on other podcasts, by the way. Yeah,
that's what I understand. Anyway, calling 30
-something churches one afternoon and asking
them for their interpretation of Luke 22, 44,
I got all kinds of different answers. But only
a few of them viewed it the way we know it to
be true, because think... God for a prophet,
and for the Joseph Smith translation. You know,
if you really read verse 44, it says, His sweat
was, as it were, like great drops of blood falling
to the ground. And people take it to mean that
Jesus is sweating profusely. His sweat, noun,
His sweat. Were was like great drops of blood
falling on the ground so they they think he's
he's really wrestling You know internally and
that he's he's viewing or he's he knows what's
going to happen on Friday And he's thinking about
the crucifixion and the cross and that he's he's
sweating Perspiring and that this is symbolic
of the blood that he will spill on the cross
That's how all of them, but I think two or just
a few, two or three. That's how they saw it.
I love the way Mosiah teaches us. Well, you know,
only only because of the restoration. Exactly.
Do we know really what happened there? And it's
it's twice. It's in Mosiah three, seven, and
it's in Doctrine and Covenants, Section 19. Where
we know that he was got read verse. Yeah, I'm
just gonna read verse 7 and low He shall suffer
temptations and pain of body hunger thirst and
fatigue even more than man can suffer except
to be unto death for behold Blood cometh from
every poor so great shall be his anguish for
the wickedness and abominations of his people
That's where Joseph Smith learned it first. Can
you imagine how that experience would have been
for Joseph Smith while he was making that translation?
I think there would have been a long pause where
he went, wow, I didn't know that. The term every
poor is not in the Bible. It's just not there.
So not only do most churches believe Jesus didn't
bleed in Gethsemane, but they have no idea how
bad it was. that the suffering had caused all
of his capillaries in his body, his veins and
arteries to collapse because of the constriction
of stress and pain that he was under for some
three hours, and that he bled from every pore.
Just think about that. Anybody would die. There's
only been, I think, a couple. There are a couple.
recorded medical incidences where people are
in so much pain that there is some few capillaries
that burst, and blood actually has been seen
oozing from their pores. But not every pore.
Not every pore. This is in very limited scope.
Yeah, exactly. And so most other churches have
no idea what really happened in Gethsemane. I
can't even imagine. However, when you think about
all the pain and suffering that goes on in the
world, because we live in a crazy world, and
this is just our time, but throughout all mankind,
to think about what kind of pressure, pain, anguish
he went through is not even fathomable to think
of. I can't even Truly I cannot imagine Because
we have all had our own get so many we've had
our own fall on our face and cry out and plead
and cry Mm -hmm, but we have no idea what that
must have been. No, it's incomprehensible Absolutely
Incomprehensible no one could have lived through
it the medical term for this God is hematidrosis
This is the beginning of the atonement of Jesus
Christ, His pain and suffering. And now let me
just have everybody think about this for a minute.
The results of this suffering in the Garden of
Gethsemane. Because it would make the next...
He's going to be alive for the next about 18
hours. He's only going to live for another 18
hours. He's going to be... crucified on the cross
at 9 a .m. the next day. So some what 10 hours,
9 hours after he leaves Gethsemane, he's going
to be crucified and then die six hours after
that. Anything after Gethsemane though is going
to be so magnified exponentially because he's
dehydrated. If you bleed from every pore, think
of how dehydrated he is. And we don't have any
record that he got any water or drink. He did
go to the brook, the Kidron brook, and I love
how the church depicts that in their video that
he washes himself. The stream becomes bloody
because he's washing all the blood off of himself.
I love that because maybe that's how nobody else
knows how bloody Gethsemane was. And yet... The
dehydration from all of this would have made
him so sick, so weak, delirious for some people,
right? Nauseous and all of that that goes with
dehydration. And then bruised. And Isaiah describes
that so beautifully. And Benedi in Mosiah chapter
14 describes that so beautifully about being
bruised. For the inequities of his people this
hat that that began and that started and really
took place in in Gethsemane and any touch To
his skin. Can you imagine? I mean have you ever
really had a really bad bruise? His whole body
would have been a bruise He was truly literally
bruised for our iniquities and that Any any touch
to his skin even the kiss of Betrayal by Judas
on his cheek would have been painful So and then
to get slapped and to get beaten to have the
cross thrust thrust upon your back and Scourged
and all that he went through, you know in the
in the next 14 15 hours Everything would have
been so Exponentially worse because of what started
in Gethsemane. And that's why I actually believe
that all those events that followed Gethsemane
is actually part of his pain and suffering. And
really part of his atonement is because of what
happened in Gethsemane and how that would have
made him so sick and so bruised that anything
for the next few hours of his life would have
been painful. I think oftentimes when we sing
the hymns for the sacrament and they talk about
bruised, torn, and broken, some of those words
just penetrate my heart. Like in ways that, and
I think that's why oftentimes, not a big surprise,
I weep. Literally weep through those sacrament
hymns. And that's part of what we should be thinking
about when we partake of the sacrament. as we
sing hymns in particular, flesh and blood. Let's
just turn to Mosiah chapter 14. This is what
I would have on my tombstone, is the scripture
in Mosiah 14, quoting Isaiah 53, Starting with
verse 3, he is despised and rejected of men,
a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief. And
we hid, as it were, our faces from him. He was
despised, and we had esteemed him not. A lot
in those verses when I read, and we hid, as it
were, our faces from him. I know that that may
have been out of those who were ashamed of Him,
but I think it may also have been, in my own
mind, it may have been me in the pre -mortal
existence seeing what He was going through. Because
I think many spirits in the pre -mortal existence,
if not all, would have been aware of this transcendental
event. This would have affected all of them.
And I think I couldn't have watched it. I think
I would have turned away. I don't think I could
have witnessed it because it would be too painful
for me to even witness. Verse 4, For our inequities
the chastisement of our peace was upon him and
with his stripes We are healed all we like sheep
have gone astray We have turned everyone to his
own way and the Lord hath laid on him the inequities
of me And us all yeah, it's it's personal and
he did all of that Just for me and for all of
the world So that's where it begins, but that's
not where it ends. That's only the beginning
of his suffering Scott and them it the really
the culmination and the the climax of his suffering
is on the cross where According to Talmadge according
to McConkey and now according to President Nelson
The cross was Gethsemane intensified Because
all of Gethsemane came back and the father withdraws
his presence Another piece I cannot even imagine.
Yeah, I know at least in It's recorded at least
in Gethsemane. He had an angel. Yeah, that was
another event in Gethsemane an angel came to
strengthen him and I Love the imagery of that
when you have loved to have seen that the angel
who I think Really is that as elder McConkey
really? Speculates that it was probably Adam
That Michael the archangel came to strengthen
him That would be an interesting Conversation
so then he goes he's betrayed with a kiss for
30 pieces of silver we've talked about He's taken
to Caiaphas the Jews the Romans take him to Caiaphas
and Caiaphas They go through a mockery of a trial
he spit upon he slapped they're trying to find
witnesses to testify against him probably false
witnesses who are paid and He goes through this
whole mockery that lasts for several hours in
the middle of the night, which is Probably against
Jewish law, I understand. They break their own
law. He went to Annas first, and Annas sent him
over to Caiaphas, by the way. And then from Caiaphas,
after being abused, tormented, and accused, then
he goes, and just think about that. We're all
accused. I mean, there's just so many parts of
this. that we should all be able to relate to.
Even if they're tormented. We're all tormented.
Maybe not the exact way physically that he was,
but we suffer those things. We're all abused.
We're all neglected. We're all accused. But not
like that. He ends up at Pilate's palace. Pilate,
you know, he's just such a wimp, such a puppet.
He wants doesn't want to hurt the Jewish leaders
feelings. So if they want to crucify him, that's
what he's going to do But he he finds out that
he's from Galilee that he's a Galilean and Herod's
in town because it's the Passover And so he says
well, you gotta go over to see Herod. I'm not
you know, I'm the governor of Judea I'm not the
governor of Galilee. That's Herod. So he goes
over to Herod and Herod is the son of Herod the
Great who had all the children killed when he
was born, and Jesus really disdains him and won't
answer his question. As the only person to ask
him a question, Jesus didn't respond. He was
totally silent the whole time he was at the place
of Herod. And this is where they stripped him,
they tormented him and abused him and put on
a scarlet or purple whatever account you want
to believe robe and sent him back to Pilate because
he wouldn't even speak to Herod. And then Pilate
ends up washing his hands and asking the people,
according to your traditions, you can let one
criminal go free. I'll give you a choice. Barabbas,
who is probably, I think, the greatest criminal
of Jerusalem at the time, who's alive, who's
a murderer, one of the gospel writers, identifies
him as a murderer. or Jesus, and they want Barabbas
to be released over Jesus, and they start to
chant. That's where maybe, maybe some, maybe
a few, I don't know, the people who were chanting
Hosanna at the beginning of the week are now
chanting, crucify Him, crucify Him. Anyway, so
Pilate turns him over to the Jews after having
them scourged, which is according to the Roman
tradition. If you're going to crucify somebody,
you scourge them first. Some of them would die
before they were through getting scourged, and
at the very least, it would kind of speed up
their death hanging on the cross. So he scourges
them, 39 whips with metal and bone tied in the
ends of the strands of the whip. And now again,
think of what he's been through. Think of what
he's been through. He has walked, by the way,
if you really look at the map and you study it,
and you guys have been there, but he's walked
over five miles since Gethsemane, and going back
and forth, going from... Anas the Caiaphas the
pilot to Herod back to pilot. He's walked over
five miles. He's been totally abused and then
any sleep for maybe days. I don't know and They
put a cross on his back and he's walking to Golgotha
no wonder he collapses and Simeon's there who
later becomes a convert according to tradition
Simeon of Cyrene and He's enlisted, or I like
to think he volunteered to carry the cross the
rest of the way. And they get to the cross at
9 a .m. I don't know where you're going to be
on Friday. 9 a .m. But you got to think about
it. 9 a .m. Good Friday. I always thought that's
such a contradiction. Good is kind of an offshoot
of the word God. So I get it, but man, it's good
for us, but bad for him. And you know, I think
this is another place where I think traditions
could play such a significant role in celebrating
Easter as what you do on Good Friday. Yeah. We
have a plan that we've actually put into place
three, four years ago. This is actually our second
year. Oh, okay. That's a good start. Just go
with me, Deb. This is a good start. So this will
be our second year. I thought we did it. Anyway,
it doesn't matter. But we will be in the celestial
room. There you go. At noon. At noon. Oh, wow.
At noon. Yeah, that's awesome. We've already
got our appointment made. I wish we observed
it as a holiday in this nation. We should. We
really should. I know in Europe they do. You're
off on Good Friday. I wish the church would give
all their employees Good Friday off if you're
listening to President Nelson. Yeah. The church
at least should close down. On Good Friday. I
request the day off and reflect Good Friday.
I really learned this from my secretary in Minnesota
who was a former Catholic. She was a convert
and she would come in in my office every time
this time of the year and say, now Brother Durfee,
you know I don't work on Good Friday. And she
had learned that as a good Catholic girl. And
she would, just before we had a St. Paul Minnesota
temple, and she would drive seven hours on Thursday
night and get to the Chicago temple around midnight.
And then she would just spend, do five sessions.
On Friday. On Friday. How cool. She'd be in the
temple all day Friday and drive back home Saturday.
And that was her tradition. That's a great tradition.
Oh man, I really honor her, Barbara Foster. She
taught me. Good Friday ought to be a sacred day.
So again, I don't know what people can do, and
maybe it's just a moment to bow your head and
say thank you, but it ought to be acknowledged
that on 9 a .m. he is crucified between two thieves.
There are seven statements that he makes from
the cross from 9 a .m. until he dies at 3 p .m.
But the fourth statement is the one at 12 noon
that is the most haunting. And at 12 noon, this
is where all hell breaks loose. At 12 noon, you
know, he's just turned over to the buffettings
of Satan, really, and really experienced spiritual
death where he's completely cut off from God
and he cries out and you can imagine the the
sinless one experiencing really perdition God's
presence has withdrawn from him. He is experiencing
hell literally and he cries out at 12 noon My
God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? This
is where Jesus experienced the full effects of
the fall. Spiritual death. Prior to now, he had
not experienced spiritual death. He had experienced
the physical death elements of the fall and had
and had healed the spiritual or physical death
elements of the fall and spiritual in so many.
of his followers up until this point. But until
this point, he's had the Father and others ministering
to him to strengthen him, to buoy him up, to
give him what he needed to fulfill his mission.
Here at noon on the cross, he's alone. And Dave,
this is where... Also, you know, we read in scripture
about earthquakes and about all the things that
happened at about that time. You know, this is
where not only do our spiritual, not only do
we spiritually react to the events that was taking
place there, but even the physical realm was
was mother nature was reacting to that. I love
it. Quoted a Protestant leader minister from
the past. His name is Charles Spurgeon, and he
made an observation one time, and I wish I could
find it so I could read it exactly. But it's
along these lines that the hearts of men were
hardened to the point where they couldn't be
broken, but even the rocks were broken because
of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. That's good.
I think it's also really important to think about
the sacrifice that Heavenly Father made by intentionally
turning away. What a grievous thing to do to
His only begotten Son. Yeah. Ouch. The only one
who even comes close to knowing how that feels
is Abraham when he was asked to sacrifice his
son, Isaac. Can you imagine even contemplating
that? No, no. That's why we call him Father Abraham.
Yeah, so thanks to have that. Yeah, we should
all not just think of the sacrifice of the son,
but of the father. And I think in some ways that
would even be harder. I agree. To have to. Witness
it and and know you had to withdraw from the
Sun for him to feel the depths of hell So that
happens for three more hours and there's total
darkness There's total darkness in Jerusalem
for three hours and for three days in America
and maybe other parts of the world the darkness
and the earthquakes in the the heaving of the
rocks and breaking of the rocks. And all of that
happens at that time and in some places longer
than others, apparently, because it was three
hours in Jerusalem, but three days in America.
So, Jesus at 12 noon, besides that statement,
why hast thou forsaken me, at 3 p .m. He cries
out, it is finished into thy hands I commend
my spirit and he dies the Savior dies they have
to hurry and bury him in a borrowed tomb Joseph
of Arimathea which is interesting and they bury
him and the garden tomb one of my most favorite
places I think in Jerusalem where you can go
and see, not the Catholic traditional place,
but the Episcopalian Church of England has a
garden called the Garden Tomb, and that's where
we believe that Jesus was buried, according to
President Lee and others. So, he's dead the rest
of the day on Friday, which should only be really
a few hours by Jewish reckoning of time. Then
all day Saturday from Jewish reckoning of time
Friday evening to Saturday evening and Then early
Sunday morning So that he's not dead three full
days He's dead on three days So it's after three
days that he's resurrected, but they're not 24
hours 72 hours. He's only dead for about 40 hours
He's in the tomb for about 40 hours and in that
40 hours He is preaching the gospel in the spirit
world, Doctrine and Covenants, Section 138, where
you can learn about, in some detail, Jesus' visit
to the spirits in the spirit world, where he
begins the preaching of the gospel to them who
are dead. And the prison doors are opened, and
the gospel begins to be preached. Can you imagine
the joy and the... What's going on in the spirit
world for those 40 hours and forever after that?
Completely changes the spirit world and redemption
of the dead. And then early, I believe really
early myself, maybe 5 a .m. as the sun is coming
up in April or 6 a .m. that Mary's there. Mary
is there and she's alone. and she's weeping,
and everybody on Sunday, I don't know again what
your traditions are on Sunday, but mine is to
always get up early and to read John chapter
20. I try to get up about the time of the resurrection,
and I read John chapter 20. Probably the most
important chapter, I think, in all of Scripture,
the record of His resurrection. and Mary greeting
him and Mary holding him. You know, again, thank
God for a prophet in the Joseph Smith translation.
He didn't say, touch me not, speaking to Mary.
He said, hold me not. There would have been an
embrace. This is probably more than a special
friendship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene.
There's some special relationship here that Jesus
would choose to appear to her first before He
appeared to Peter, the chief apostle. I mean,
there's something really significant here. And
He even appears to other women before He appears
to Peter and the apostles, which says something
about His respect, I think, for women. But to
Mary, she holds him. And he says, hold me not,
Mary. I need to send him to his father in heaven.
He appeared to Mary before he went back to the
presence of his father. I love John chapter 20.
I just think that is the gospel. That is the
gospel. That's the good news, is John chapter
20. You can't think about the resurrection in
these events of Easter without thinking of 1
Corinthians chapter 15, and Paul basically says,
if there was no resurrection, you're wasting
your time. Yeah, with everything. If there's
no resurrection and Jesus didn't live again,
then why are you doing what you're doing? There
is no Christianity. There is no church. There
is no point. If Christ isn't alive and wasn't
resurrected and appeared to Mary, then go home.
Die and be done. It's over. That's probably why
they say 40 days after He is risen. That's probably
what they did back then. He is risen! He is risen!
Yeah, exactly. Like it was probably such a celebration
of awe. Can you imagine, Deb? Yes, and we should
be celebrating. That way as well. And one of
his apostles didn't even believe it. Yes. You
know, Thomas, because when Jesus does appear
to the twelve, Thomas, or not to the twelve,
because Judas committed suicide, by the way,
he's committed suicide even before the resurrection.
He appears to the ten disciples. Thomas is out
running there. Can you imagine missing that meeting?
Being late to that meeting? Say, hey, Jesus was
just here. And he's, no way! Doubting Thomas,
poor doubting Thomas. He appears to the 11, the
11 a week later, and Thomas is there, and Jesus
says, Thomas, come and touch and feel, and eats
honeycomb with him. Luke 24, I love that. Scott,
this is the essence of our message. Jesus Christ,
Him crucified and resurrected. That is the good
news. That's what all Christians base their faith
and hope upon, is that Jesus suffered, that He
died, and He was resurrected the third day. The
Prophet Joseph Smith said, anything to that is
only an appendage. That is the gospel of Jesus
Christ, and anything else is just an add -on.
So, that's Easter. We have a great opportunity
in front of us this week as we prepare for Sunday,
where we really where we really celebrate that
he is indeed risen. I love this, Dave. We're
out of time. We could take so much. I know we're
over time. We could we could dive into so many.
And, you know, and I encourage you if you're
interested. Hope you are to go back and listen
to maybe our previous podcasts on this or or
go find somebody else's too There's just so much
great wisdom and learning that we need to have
as we strengthen our own Testimonies and grow
closer to him. Yeah. Thank you Thanks, Deb. Any
last word, Deb? I'm looking forward to my own
study, my own experience. It's a personal thing.
Absolutely. And I am really looking forward to
it. As am I. As I hope all of our family members
might make it personal to each of them. And I
just want to just bear testimony in the name
of Jesus Christ that I know that He lives. I've
heard his voice. I know what his voice sounds
like. I've heard his voice. I haven't seen him
in the flesh. But I've seen him with an eye of
faith and in dreams and visions. And I know we
have living special witnesses of the living.
resurrected Christ on the earth today, and I'm
not one of them, but if I would have been there
in the room with the twelve when Jesus appeared
to them, I would not know more then than I know
now that He lives. It's beyond faith for me.
I know it's faith, but I know. And my testimony
is still growing. It will continue to grow. I'm
excited to share the witness and the message
of the Gospel with people in Australia. And I
look forward to that. I look forward to coming
home in a year and a half, Scott, and picking
it up from there. So thank you. Bittersweet.
Thanks, Dave. I too have been so grateful for
this opportunity to do this podcast with you,
but mostly to draw closer through it to my Lord
and Savior Jesus Christ, which I have done. And
I think I've done that in ways that would not
have been available to me otherwise without this
experience So I'm so grateful for but above everything
this experience and in every other experience
that I've ever had in my life I'm grateful for
the experiences that he had I'm grateful that
he Was willing to bear my burdens to bear my
griefs to bear my sorrows to bear my fears to
bear everything about me that has been a result
of the fall of Adam and Eve, and I'm grateful
for that. I'm really grateful, Deb, to also be
doing this now with you and look forward to that.
What are your final thoughts today, sweetheart?
I literally stand all amazed in this holy space.
It's very, very humbling to feel and to know.
and to testify of Jesus Christ. My heart has
been filled. Thank you. Well, thank you. And
thanks to all of you for being with us. We pray
that your Easter experience will be everything
that you hope for and maybe even more than that,
as you invite the spirit of our Heavenly Father
to be with you and administrate the blessings
of Jesus's atonement in this season. We look
forward to being with you again next week. Deb
and I do. Good luck on your mission, David. We
will miss you. We'll look forward to David and
I. He doesn't know this yet, but we're going
to be in pretty frequent contact and I will be
reporting back on his mission as we go. Thanks
for being with us, everybody. Thanks for being
with us, everybody. We look forward to being
with you again next week and until then, be well.