1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,160 Hey there everybody welcome out to another episode of Redeem through His Blood. 2 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,440 This is Scott Durfey joined as always by David Durfey 3 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,440 What's up Dave? 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:25,440 How you doing bud? 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:26,440 Good. 6 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:27,440 Doing good. 7 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:28,440 Good to be here with you Scott. 8 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:29,840 It's good to be with you too. 9 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:32,000 We uh, did you have a good week? 10 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,000 Yeah. 11 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:34,000 Yeah. 12 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:35,000 Great week. 13 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:36,000 Kind of slow. 14 00:00:36,000 --> 00:00:37,000 Not. 15 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,000 We uh. 16 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,000 The holiday blues. 17 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:42,000 Yeah they're here I guess. 18 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,000 I guess. 19 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,720 I uh, the holidays are definitely. 20 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,280 No people have to worry about paying their credit cards. 21 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:49,280 Yeah not me. 22 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:52,280 You know January's got its flaws. 23 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:54,400 Yeah you got that. 24 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:57,080 Anyway well you know that's I'm happy. 25 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,120 We uh, we started a new semester of Institute. 26 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,840 We actually have our first class tonight. 27 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,040 We did a kickoff last week which was always amazing. 28 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:07,680 So it's the most. 29 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:10,080 Dave I'm blown away. 30 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,080 You got to experience this your whole career. 31 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:13,080 Yeah. 32 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:14,080 I didn't. 33 00:01:14,080 --> 00:01:17,880 You know for the last five years since Deb and I have been doing this as a calling. 34 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,560 Not a career but as a part of our callings. 35 00:01:20,560 --> 00:01:28,240 It has been just so wonderfully amazing for me to see the valiant people. 36 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:31,920 I don't want to call them kids but to me they're kids. 37 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,720 The rising generation. 38 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,280 I just, they have a million things going on in their lives. 39 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,280 They're in school. 40 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:40,800 Some of them are many. 41 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:44,880 Maybe most even are working to kind of help supplement their way along. 42 00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,640 And there you are there on Wednesday nights making a decision to come and partake of the 43 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:50,640 spirit. 44 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:51,640 Holy moly. 45 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:52,640 Yeah. 46 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:53,640 They're, they're quite amazing. 47 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:54,640 Yeah. 48 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:55,640 Just awesome. 49 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,120 And there's a patriarch giving patriarchal blessings. 50 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:04,760 You know that was very obvious that this is a chosen generation. 51 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:11,480 I know the prophets have said it but I sure felt that giving blessings and how frequently 52 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:15,800 a second coming came up in those blessings. 53 00:02:15,800 --> 00:02:21,160 And you have to believe Scott that this is a generation that will help us. 54 00:02:21,160 --> 00:02:22,560 You're in the second coming. 55 00:02:22,560 --> 00:02:23,560 Yeah. 56 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,160 I have a question for you. 57 00:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,160 You're not prepared for this. 58 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,360 And if you decide you don't want to answer it just tell me and I'll cut it. 59 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:35,360 But you know when you're giving those patriarchal blessings there's so much sacredness attached 60 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,360 to it. 61 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:37,360 I get it. 62 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,560 And you know and I don't want to encroach on that areas where I shouldn't. 63 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:50,400 But you know as a patriarch Dave I'll bet that you have the gift or the revelation given 64 00:02:50,400 --> 00:02:55,600 as a patriarch while you're doing those things to really kind of see those that you're performing 65 00:02:55,600 --> 00:03:00,280 the blessing to or on as Heavenly Father sees them right. 66 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:01,280 Yeah. 67 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:02,280 Oh for sure Scott. 68 00:03:02,280 --> 00:03:06,560 That's one of the major, I think there's three major parts of the patriarchal blessing 69 00:03:06,560 --> 00:03:10,880 which I tell all the youth that come and adults too. 70 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:15,880 That's true for adults as well who get patriarchal blessing that there's three major parts of 71 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:18,160 their blessings. 72 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:24,200 Their lineage which is maybe the most underappreciated part of the blessing. 73 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:29,720 If they understood the new and everlasting covenant they understood the Abrahamic covenant 74 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:38,360 and if they really understood what that meant and the blessings and responsibilities that 75 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:42,160 went along with that it would be life changing for them. 76 00:03:42,160 --> 00:03:47,320 And I encourage them to really study what the Abrahamic covenant is and the new and 77 00:03:47,320 --> 00:03:49,520 everlasting covenant. 78 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:57,200 Anyway that's the first one and the second one is that the patriarch and he tries to 79 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:04,680 describe it in the best language that he can but there's no language that's equal to the 80 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:13,120 feelings that he feels is to get a glimpse of how Heavenly Father sees them and that 81 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:19,800 can be life changing as well if they could just see themselves the way God sees them, 82 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:28,280 who they are, their preparation in the premortal existence, their purpose and mission here 83 00:04:28,280 --> 00:04:30,360 as well as their potential. 84 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:35,960 I think that's really a precious part of a patriarchal blessing and the third is to 85 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:47,720 get maybe some warning, a heads up, some counsel, some exhortation from the Lord based upon 86 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:54,520 who they are and maybe personal weaknesses or conditions or situations in their life 87 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:59,720 that the Lord wants to give them some warning or help with. 88 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,200 So yeah I think those are the three major parts of a patriarchal blessing and I'll 89 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:09,080 bet if everybody would study their blessing they could probably break it down into those 90 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:10,080 three parts. 91 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,280 Yeah, I love that. 92 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:19,320 I actually have my patriarchal blessing sits on my desk and I read it with some frequency. 93 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:25,000 It had been a while but I had it out this morning and it was reading through it. 94 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:28,240 I think, did Stanley D. Roberts give you your... 95 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:29,240 No, okay. 96 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:34,080 He was stake president when I was a missionary so I went on a mission. 97 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,080 He was my stake president. 98 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:41,920 Alan, brother Alan was a patriarch before Stanley Roberts. 99 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:44,720 That's not familiar to me but... 100 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,080 After he was stake president he became patriarch. 101 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,360 Right, I remember him as both. 102 00:05:48,360 --> 00:05:51,600 I remember him obviously as stake president and then also when he gave... 103 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,960 In fact he's the one that called my dad to be a bishop. 104 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:55,160 You want to hear a funny story? 105 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,760 We're getting a little bit off track but when my dad was called to be a bishop I was about 106 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:05,440 seven years old and I was told by my mom that there's men coming over to talk to dad and 107 00:06:05,440 --> 00:06:10,160 I don't know what I was thinking but it was freaking me out and I couldn't be in there. 108 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:13,720 And so I don't know why I was so insecure about that but I thought my dad was in big 109 00:06:13,720 --> 00:06:16,240 trouble. 110 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:19,520 I didn't know if these men had come or were going to take him to jail. 111 00:06:19,520 --> 00:06:20,680 I didn't know what had been going on. 112 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,680 Well you knew your dad better than a lot of people so... 113 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:27,000 Better than Stanley D. Roberts I for sure. 114 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:32,520 Yeah, anyway, all joking aside but that kind of... 115 00:06:32,520 --> 00:06:33,600 I'll never forget that. 116 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:37,640 I sat on the stairs with the door closed because they closed and I was trying to listen to 117 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:38,920 what was going on in the front room. 118 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Couldn't hear anything. 119 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:45,280 That created a lot of insecurity in my life that day for whatever reason. 120 00:06:45,280 --> 00:06:46,280 I don't know why. 121 00:06:46,280 --> 00:06:47,280 That's awesome. 122 00:06:47,280 --> 00:06:48,280 Your dad was a great bishop. 123 00:06:48,280 --> 00:06:49,280 I know he was. 124 00:06:49,280 --> 00:06:50,280 Yeah, for sure. 125 00:06:50,280 --> 00:06:51,280 Absolutely. 126 00:06:51,280 --> 00:06:53,680 Well Dave, let's get to the topic today. 127 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:59,480 We spent quite a little bit of time last week talking about why we choose to believe. 128 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:05,840 I think we've since then had some maybe revelation or insight into our own lives around that. 129 00:07:05,840 --> 00:07:10,240 But then also, and I'll do this again today, we extended an invitation to those who had 130 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:15,640 questions as we kind of wind things on the podcast up. 131 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:19,840 But again, I don't have a date but that's coming. 132 00:07:19,840 --> 00:07:23,200 We would love to entertain or entertain is the wrong word. 133 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:28,120 We would love to take on some of your questions and I know that we had a few today. 134 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,120 Yeah. 135 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:34,120 Yeah, so before I forget, I forgot last time and how to throw it in at the end, which makes 136 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:35,360 it a tad bit awkward. 137 00:07:35,360 --> 00:07:44,640 But before I forget, the place that you can send those questions is he redeems us at gmail.com. 138 00:07:44,640 --> 00:07:46,200 So just send us any questions you may have. 139 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,560 We'll do our best to get to them if it's appropriate. 140 00:07:48,560 --> 00:07:49,800 And there you go. 141 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:51,560 So we had a couple of questions. 142 00:07:51,560 --> 00:07:52,560 Yeah. 143 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:59,360 And grateful for those questions and grateful for all the feedback, positive feedback and 144 00:07:59,360 --> 00:08:04,120 negative feedback we get. 145 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:08,720 So Scott, there's a question. 146 00:08:08,720 --> 00:08:16,080 Somebody asked a question about if one needs a calling an election made sure before they 147 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:18,280 die. 148 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:25,520 And grateful for the question and there's there's a lot of things said about calling 149 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:32,040 election made sure and second endowment and second anointing and and all of those things. 150 00:08:32,040 --> 00:08:38,080 And I I love what Robert J. Matthews used to always say about that. 151 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:43,840 Scott, when he was asked a question about calling an election or the second anointing 152 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:48,240 or whatever, he would always say, well, let me just. 153 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,840 Say this. 154 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:54,320 Those who are talking about it don't know what they're talking about. 155 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:59,480 And those who aren't talking to those who know about it aren't talking about it. 156 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:03,280 They ain't talking. 157 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:08,640 Now I know there's exceptions to that because I know there's some people that probably do 158 00:09:08,640 --> 00:09:10,400 talk about it. 159 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:14,120 Anyway, that's kind of how I feel about it. 160 00:09:14,120 --> 00:09:18,800 Those who talk about that stuff probably don't know what they're talking about. 161 00:09:18,800 --> 00:09:22,840 And those who know about it, they ain't talking. 162 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:28,080 But in regards to specifically if you need your calling election made sure before you 163 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:38,440 die, the answer would be no with a maybe a caveat that elder Bruce Armacon key in a funeral 164 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,880 address at S. Dilworth Young's funeral. 165 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:49,800 So anyone that wants no can look, look that talk up use AI and look that talk up. 166 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:56,760 He said in essence that any righteous person who dies, the moment they die, they get their 167 00:09:56,760 --> 00:09:59,960 calling election made sure. 168 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:05,720 So you don't have to have your call to election made sure before you die. 169 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:11,360 But if you're faithful, you'll receive it soon after you die. 170 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:16,000 So I that's, that's all I know about about that. 171 00:10:16,000 --> 00:10:23,400 And there's other things I, you know, have studied and know or people who think they 172 00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:28,440 know have said, but it's not really worth repeating. 173 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:32,160 The other thing that comes to my mind when, when things like this come up, you know, it's 174 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:36,800 interesting and, and you know, I got to admit sometimes I like to be the one that goes down 175 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,600 out of curiosity, some of those rabbit holes as well. 176 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,960 But what I got to remember is something that you taught me a long time ago when I had a 177 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,400 question about Dr. Nold that, that just wasn't 100% clear to me, you know, acceptably clear 178 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:50,400 to me. 179 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,560 I think it's in the, is it DNC 2930 or something like that? 180 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:58,280 Yeah, God hasn't made all his judgments, no, no, no, no, man. 181 00:10:58,280 --> 00:10:59,280 But we know enough. 182 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:00,280 Yeah. 183 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,520 And I, and I've heard you say that and I've heard Elder Anderson say that we don't know 184 00:11:03,520 --> 00:11:06,160 everything, but we know enough. 185 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:07,160 Exactly. 186 00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:08,160 Yeah. 187 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,760 And I think God's really loved for us and his mercy. 188 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:11,760 Yeah. 189 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:12,760 Awards us. 190 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,160 He has not revealed all of his judgments unto men. 191 00:11:16,160 --> 00:11:17,160 Not interesting. 192 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:18,160 And what none of us really know. 193 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:24,040 I mean, the, the, the questions such as can you progress from kingdom to kingdom? 194 00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:28,120 I know Elder McConkey and others made some pretty strong statements about that, but I 195 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:34,400 also know that that's their opinions, that there's a, there's no official doctrine on 196 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,320 that and God has chosen not to reveal that to us. 197 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,240 There's, it's, it's just as important, I think Scott in the gospel of Jesus Christ to 198 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:45,320 know what you know. 199 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,280 And it's also just as important to know what has not been revealed. 200 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:55,040 So a lot of people think a lot of things or even teach a lot of things that God himself 201 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:56,720 has not revealed. 202 00:11:56,720 --> 00:12:00,180 And we have to, we have to be really careful to understand that. 203 00:12:00,180 --> 00:12:05,880 And then there are some things that are just too sacred to talk about in forums such as 204 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:10,080 this or over the pulpit or anyplace else. 205 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,760 It's just, it's, it's too sacred. 206 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:20,360 There are certain mysteries of the kingdom that are, are really sweet and powerful that 207 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:24,520 one over time will be able to understand and receive. 208 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,320 If not in this life in the, in the life to come. 209 00:12:27,320 --> 00:12:33,760 I, I just think it's really important that people like Peter, Peter exhorted us, the 210 00:12:33,760 --> 00:12:41,400 saints in his epistle in the New Testament to, to seek their calling and election. 211 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:46,960 We should all seek to be faithful and not worry too much about it because it's only 212 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,560 a matter of time before we do receive it in this life or the next. 213 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:55,320 Anyway, so I hope there were, there were some other questions, but maybe we'll just kind 214 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:01,640 of take you one or two each, uh, each week Scott and talk about it before we jump into 215 00:13:01,640 --> 00:13:02,640 our main. 216 00:13:02,640 --> 00:13:08,240 Well, so Dave, last week we talked about this concept about why do I stay? 217 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:09,240 Right? 218 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:14,120 Um, and, and why do I choose to believe and stay in the restored gospel? 219 00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,120 Yeah. 220 00:13:15,120 --> 00:13:16,640 And, um, I didn't say church. 221 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:19,080 I said restored gospel. 222 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:20,280 That's there's a difference. 223 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:27,160 You know, I, I just think it's really important people understand and delineate between the 224 00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:30,200 restored gospel of Jesus Christ and the church. 225 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:31,800 They're not the same. 226 00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:37,720 I know the church is the vehicle that moves the restored gospel of Jesus Christ forward. 227 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:41,400 But wow, that, that vehicle has a lot of bumps and bruises on it. 228 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,760 Well, and the church is also the reservoir that contains the covenants. 229 00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:45,760 Yes. 230 00:13:45,760 --> 00:13:50,240 That are, that we need to keep those sacred and a lot of the scriptures, the Holy Scriptures, 231 00:13:50,240 --> 00:13:57,320 the, the organization and prophets, seers and revelators and, uh, the restored gospel 232 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:58,320 of Jesus Christ. 233 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:02,640 God is, uh, is really the precious cargo. 234 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:10,160 It's really the, the heart, but, um, the, the vehicle that moves it forward in the body 235 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:17,600 that, uh, that helps take care and protect that heart is really, really important. 236 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:22,240 But it's certainly imperfect. 237 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:30,120 And there's been so many, all everybody, you can't be a member of the church and not, not 238 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:38,400 to be aware of, of some of the weaknesses and imperfections of, of the church, meaning 239 00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:45,920 the organization, maybe certain historical events and the lives of individuals both past, 240 00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:49,040 present and will be in the future. 241 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:55,440 Because as long as you have a, a mortal group of people running an organization, it's not 242 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,520 going to be a perfect organization. 243 00:14:59,520 --> 00:15:01,120 We've all had experiences with that. 244 00:15:01,120 --> 00:15:02,120 And, and you know what? 245 00:15:02,120 --> 00:15:06,440 And quite frankly, and honestly, I've been on both ends of that, you know, I've been 246 00:15:06,440 --> 00:15:08,040 the guy that said something stupid. 247 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,040 I think we all have a guy that got a little thin skin. 248 00:15:11,040 --> 00:15:12,040 I think we all have. 249 00:15:12,040 --> 00:15:13,040 I said too. 250 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,880 So yeah, I've offended people and I've been offended. 251 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:16,880 Yeah. 252 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:17,880 Yeah. 253 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:24,400 So I, I, when I think of that, I think, you know, I just have to extend grace to the extent 254 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,880 that I hope it's extended. 255 00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:26,880 Yeah, exactly. 256 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,440 That's, that's really good. 257 00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:30,720 Yeah. 258 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:38,480 So anyway, I, I've entitled this document, Why I Choose to Believe and Stay in the Restored 259 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:41,080 Gospel of Jesus Christ. 260 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:43,480 And it really is a choice. 261 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:52,040 And I just, I just hope everybody understands that it's their personal choice. 262 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,960 And then it's the choice of others and that, that nobody is, is forced to stay and nobody's 263 00:15:57,960 --> 00:15:59,960 forced to leave. 264 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,840 I mean, second Nephi, right? 265 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,280 You can choose to act or be acted upon. 266 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,960 And we have our agency. 267 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:18,480 But boy, Scott, it's, it's hard for me to understand really, because I haven't experienced 268 00:16:18,480 --> 00:16:25,640 it and I don't want to judge anyone or condemn anyone for whatever reasons have chosen to 269 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:27,800 walk away. 270 00:16:27,800 --> 00:16:34,120 And maybe it's permanently, I would like to believe that most of those who walk away 271 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:40,200 may be temporarily, that there will be events or experiences in their life or the Lord will 272 00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:46,960 take their, their hand or their by the hand, the Lord will take them by the hand and maybe 273 00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,680 change their course of direction or events will happen in their life. 274 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:53,040 And a lot of them will come back. 275 00:16:53,040 --> 00:16:55,920 I know that I, there's lots of stories like that. 276 00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,400 So you hear about all these people who are leaving. 277 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:06,640 It would be really interesting to know 20 years later how many have returned. 278 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:13,000 And I'm sure I, who knows, knowing the speculation to, to guess, but I know a good number of 279 00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:17,960 them have returned already that I've known who have left. 280 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:25,680 And I just think it's really critical to, to, for each individual member of the church 281 00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,800 who believes they have a testimony to do two things. 282 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:34,040 Number one, know why they believe, why they choose to believe and stay. 283 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:40,240 And number two, to continue to grow it, to continue to develop it, continue to strengthen 284 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:43,400 their knowledge and testimony. 285 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:48,720 And there's a difference to Scott, not just between gospel and church. 286 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:53,840 There's, it's really important to distinguish between the gospel of Jesus Christ, the restored 287 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,080 gospel of Jesus Christ and the church. 288 00:17:57,080 --> 00:18:02,400 And it's equally as important to distinguish between a testimony and conversion. 289 00:18:02,400 --> 00:18:06,960 And lots of people, I think have testimonies, but if they haven't truly been converted under 290 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:12,600 the Lord, then boy, they're, they're on pretty shaky ground. 291 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:13,600 Yeah. 292 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:21,920 You know, I, I believe that who or what that we have that testimony in and that conversion 293 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:26,920 in is really critical to, because, you know, I know that there are those, I'm not pointing 294 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:31,640 fingers, I've been one of these people in the past, and there's really, you know, a 295 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:37,320 fine line between the, that delineates between the two, two concepts I'm about to, to mention 296 00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:38,320 here. 297 00:18:38,320 --> 00:18:44,080 One is, is that sometimes people have a testimony or a conversion to the church, to the organization, 298 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:48,480 to the institution, to what it gives to all the good that it does for all of the redeeming 299 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,400 and redemptive qualities and, and how that it makes our lives better. 300 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,960 It's a, you know, through assimilation, and that's not what we're after here, but, but 301 00:18:55,960 --> 00:19:04,120 through assimilation, the church gives us a very, very good pattern for living. 302 00:19:04,120 --> 00:19:07,120 And that if we follow that pattern for living, we're surely going to have the spirit abundant 303 00:19:07,120 --> 00:19:08,120 in our lives. 304 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,840 We're surely going to have blessings in our lives. 305 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:15,160 We're surely going to have a level and a measure of joy increase because we're adhering to 306 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:20,240 principles that align us with those kinds of, just through the law, those kinds of things 307 00:19:20,240 --> 00:19:21,240 that come our way. 308 00:19:21,240 --> 00:19:26,800 And I would hang on just a minute because I'd call that a testimony in the church. 309 00:19:26,800 --> 00:19:31,720 I personally don't think you can be converted to the church because conversion to me means 310 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:32,720 change. 311 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:33,720 Okay. 312 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:40,320 If a person is converted, yeah, if you convert something, yeah, you change something, yeah, 313 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:44,760 and conversion to, I don't think it's possible to be converted to the Lord, to the church. 314 00:19:44,760 --> 00:19:45,760 Sorry. 315 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,480 I don't think that conversion is, is associated with church. 316 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:50,480 Okay. 317 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:52,040 So you can know it's true. 318 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:53,040 You can love it. 319 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:54,040 You can like it. 320 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,000 You can do all those things as far as the church is concerned. 321 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,160 You can even say, I know it's true. 322 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:03,600 I know it's the only true and living church. 323 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:08,520 But if you're not converted to the Lord Jesus Christ, and I know we haven't been changed. 324 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:14,320 If the church hasn't transformed you, if the gospel is not working your life, I honestly, 325 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:21,680 Scott, I don't, I don't know how those people will survive or stay in the church at all. 326 00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:26,000 And the reason I think you're saying this, correct me if I'm wrong, but in Alma 23, right, 327 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:27,840 verse six, we learned that. 328 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:28,840 Yes. 329 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:29,840 Five times in that chapter. 330 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:33,200 Those who were converted unto the Lord never did fall away. 331 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:34,200 Five times. 332 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,200 But that's the difference though. 333 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:36,200 That's the difference. 334 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:37,200 Okay. 335 00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:40,480 But so I'm going to, I'm going to disagree with you. 336 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:41,480 Okay. 337 00:20:41,480 --> 00:20:45,760 I believe that because it says they were converted to the Lord. 338 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:46,760 Yeah. 339 00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,960 You're saying that you don't believe somebody can be converted to the church, but I think 340 00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:54,400 that the church can create some conversion in us and change us. 341 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:55,400 I've seen it. 342 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,400 You've seen it. 343 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,120 I mean, I don't really want to dwell on this, but I listened to a podcast of a friend who 344 00:21:01,120 --> 00:21:04,120 was a former bishop and now has left the church. 345 00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:05,120 He was converted. 346 00:21:05,120 --> 00:21:08,720 He was changed because of the church, but he wasn't converted to the Lord. 347 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:09,720 Yeah. 348 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:15,280 And I know that maybe we're getting into semantics here, but, but, but that's to me, that's the 349 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,280 thing. 350 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,160 If somebody is just focuses on, and we can choose not to use word conversion, and that's 351 00:21:21,160 --> 00:21:27,080 fine with me, but if somebody just focuses on their relationship with the church itself, 352 00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:28,280 the institution or whatever. 353 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:34,640 And moving up, moving up and, you know, comparing themselves and they're just trying to be. 354 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:35,640 Yeah. 355 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:36,640 Yeah. 356 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,760 And I have no idea that we started our podcast. 357 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:47,320 I think the very first one in season one, when, when I said paraphrasing Robert J. Matthews 358 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:54,000 again, I said the gospel of Jesus Christ is not assimilation. 359 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:56,160 It's redemption, redemption. 360 00:21:56,160 --> 00:21:58,800 And that's the delineation to me. 361 00:21:58,800 --> 00:22:04,920 You know, the church is, we can assimilate only with and through the redemption of Jesus 362 00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:09,680 Christ and the blessings made available to us because of his atonement. 363 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,120 That's the only place that redemption comes in. 364 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:16,160 And so for me, that's where in our, when we read about these people who were converted 365 00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,760 on to the Lord, never did fall away. 366 00:22:18,760 --> 00:22:24,520 Their conversion was to the Lord, not their church to the Lord converted under the Lord, 367 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:27,040 converted under the Lord, converted under the Lord. 368 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:28,040 Yeah. 369 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:29,040 That's the key. 370 00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:30,200 It's actually Alma 23. 371 00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:35,800 And even, even Scott in turn of turn to let's, let's turn to fourth Nephi. 372 00:22:35,800 --> 00:22:43,400 You know, after, after Jesus appears to the people in third Nephi and all of the healing 373 00:22:43,400 --> 00:22:50,440 and forgiving and the miracles associated with his appearance to the people in third 374 00:22:50,440 --> 00:22:54,440 Nephi, oh man, for 200 years, Scott. 375 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:55,440 Yeah. 376 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:59,880 No one, nobody falls away and for almost 200 years. 377 00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:05,720 Alma eventually pride and other things start set into the church and people start to fall 378 00:23:05,720 --> 00:23:07,040 away. 379 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:12,840 But for almost 200 years and let me see your scriptures there. 380 00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:20,720 And I love this, I love this description of how it says that there was no contention. 381 00:23:20,720 --> 00:23:21,720 There was no contention. 382 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:23,200 There's no contention. 383 00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:25,560 I love this description. 384 00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,280 And now I Mormon would the Esha know that the people had multiplied in so much they 385 00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:36,080 spread upon all the face of the land and that they had become exceedingly rich because 386 00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,120 of their prosperity in Christ. 387 00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:41,120 In Christ. 388 00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,440 See, that's, that's the difference. 389 00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:46,800 That is what, that's what made it possible for them. 390 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,240 And then, then this verse, and it came to pass. 391 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:55,080 There was no contention in land because of the love of God, which to me is manifested 392 00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:01,600 in Jesus Christ, the love of God, which did dwell in the hearts of the people. 393 00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:02,600 Yeah. 394 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:07,200 I mean, that's, that's conversion. 395 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:08,200 That's conversion. 396 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:13,760 And I, I know a lot of people have had testimonies of the church and they go on some go on missions 397 00:24:13,760 --> 00:24:18,080 and they have great testimonies of the church and they're, they're doing the best they can 398 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:25,000 to keep all the commandments and there were, but they never really have experienced some 399 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:33,360 of the great miracles of the atonement of Jesus Christ and redemption in their lives. 400 00:24:33,360 --> 00:24:40,440 And so this kind of outline that I just kind of created for myself really was, has, has 401 00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:44,440 really been helpful to me and I, I hope it will be helpful to others. 402 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,280 Well, Dave, you say you created this for yourself. 403 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:48,800 Let's expand on that just a little bit. 404 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,560 This wasn't just created for yourself. 405 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,440 You have had people come to you. 406 00:24:52,440 --> 00:24:53,440 Oh, so many. 407 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,040 Yeah, who have had these questions, who have faced the stuff that we're referring to. 408 00:24:58,040 --> 00:25:04,000 When I was a bishop and even people say presidency and I still have people come and say, I'm 409 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:09,240 thinking about walking away and before I do, I want to, anyway, Scott. 410 00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,080 Well, so this is spawned from that. 411 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:16,680 I mean, all of, all of what I'm talking about here today has actually come from a wrestle, 412 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,960 not a wrestle for you, but a wrestle for you to put it together in a way that makes sense 413 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:21,960 for others. 414 00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:25,240 And so this has been a labor of love, no doubt. 415 00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:27,840 And I can, I can attest that it's been a labor. 416 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,600 David and I have been sending emails and text back and forth as he's working on this. 417 00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:34,200 And yeah, so. 418 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:42,400 And it seems to have been my lot pretty early on in my married life to be in certain places 419 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:50,600 or certain positions or no certain people who have really, really struggled with their 420 00:25:50,600 --> 00:26:00,320 understanding of testimony, conversion, and to overcome the gospel of assimilation and 421 00:26:00,320 --> 00:26:04,040 try to help them understand the gospel of redemption. 422 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,520 And, and, and even it's really some hardcore apostates. 423 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:16,680 Both, both when I lived in Highland, Utah, before we moved to Minnesota, then even in 424 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,720 Minnesota, as a member of Sake Presidency and in a Mission Presidency, I was given an 425 00:26:21,720 --> 00:26:27,240 assignment to deal with some of the apostates there. 426 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:38,440 So anyway, that just seems to have been part of my life is trying to help individuals who 427 00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:47,040 have hardcore apostatized from the church, like my relationship with Ron Lafferty and 428 00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:53,160 Ken A.C. and others who went off and started having their own revelations and starting 429 00:26:53,160 --> 00:27:00,920 their own church to two individuals who have just kind of quietly slipped out the back door 430 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:05,560 because they just didn't feel like the church was for them anymore. 431 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:13,120 So after all of those experiences, I've, I have just decided that I've got to, I've 432 00:27:13,120 --> 00:27:21,640 got to help others understand why I choose, especially my family, why I choose to believe 433 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,320 and why I choose to stay. 434 00:27:24,320 --> 00:27:26,280 So that's, that's what this is about. 435 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:32,280 And I, I kind of broke it down into four, four main parts, you know, evidences and witnesses. 436 00:27:32,280 --> 00:27:33,920 We talked about some of this last week. 437 00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:37,520 I know evidences and witnesses. 438 00:27:37,520 --> 00:27:39,920 And that's the first one. 439 00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:45,040 The second one is, and then there's parts under each of these, but the second one is personal 440 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:46,920 experience. 441 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:54,360 The third one is my knowledge and relationship of the Godhead or with the Godhead and then 442 00:27:54,360 --> 00:28:04,800 just certain true points, very true points of, of doctrine. 443 00:28:04,800 --> 00:28:07,680 I love that phrase in the book of Mormon, which is in there about three or four times, 444 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:11,760 the very points of doctrine. 445 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:13,440 And I, I love that. 446 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:22,160 And those are the four reasons why I choose to believe and stay in the restored gospel 447 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:23,600 of Jesus Christ. 448 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:30,480 And, and maybe before we just jump into this, Scott, you know, C.S. Lewis a long time ago 449 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,920 said this about Christianity. 450 00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:42,840 I believe in Christianity as I believe that the sun has risen not only because I see it, 451 00:28:42,840 --> 00:28:47,360 but because by it, I see everything else. 452 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:55,120 In other words, Christianity for C.S. Lewis, the light and the truths of Christianity didn't 453 00:28:55,120 --> 00:29:01,440 just change him, but changed how he saw everything else. 454 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,280 Changed his world. 455 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:07,960 And I could say the same thing about the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. 456 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,880 You know, let's, let's not, let's not blow right past that. 457 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:12,400 There's an invitation there. 458 00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:15,040 Well, there's an invitation for all of us. 459 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:20,520 I mean, so how does, how, how, because of the gospel of Jesus Christ and that lens that 460 00:29:20,520 --> 00:29:25,880 we see our world through, exactly, how is our life different because of that lens that 461 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,880 we see through. 462 00:29:26,880 --> 00:29:32,760 I wonder if people and for some people it hasn't been all positive for sure. 463 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:33,760 Absolutely. 464 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,480 But that's more, that's the church. 465 00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:42,240 That's not the gospel and people need to again distinguish between what they believe in what 466 00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:44,600 they, anyway. 467 00:29:44,600 --> 00:29:50,960 I believe in the restored gospel of Jesus Christ God as I believe that the sun has risen, 468 00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:58,520 not because I see it or know it, but because by it, I see and know everything else. 469 00:29:58,520 --> 00:29:59,520 Yeah. 470 00:29:59,520 --> 00:30:03,080 I mean, it's, that's how I feel about it. 471 00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:04,720 The restored gospel of Jesus Christ. 472 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:15,720 I mean, we, we just have so much to be thankful for so many principles and points of doctrine 473 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:23,840 that doctrine changes behavior more than a discussion of behavior changes behavior. 474 00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:33,640 Just that idea, you know, has, has permeated everything that I see, everything that I think, 475 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:37,760 everything that I feel and everything that I do. 476 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,560 So those are the four kind of points. 477 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:47,200 And then under each of those four points, and those are again, evidences and witnesses, 478 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:55,520 personal experiences, knowledge and relationship with the Godhead and then true points of doctrine. 479 00:30:55,520 --> 00:31:03,120 Under each of those, I have a sub points that, that I make and under evidences and witnesses, 480 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:11,120 God, I have the witness of the Holy Ghost, the, the edification, enlightenment, the daily 481 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:13,620 revelations. 482 00:31:13,620 --> 00:31:20,160 So Scott on that, on that point of having the Holy Ghost and revelation daily, daily 483 00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:29,240 revelation, I love this verse, you know, Mormon's commentary on those who were faithful in the 484 00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:36,480 time of great wickedness of secret combinations and a time and culture that I think very much 485 00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,920 mirrors our time and culture. 486 00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:46,960 Mormon gives us a little key, a little insight here as to what help those individuals, righteous 487 00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,480 individuals, endure in the church. 488 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,480 So Helman 11, 23. 489 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:56,120 There began to be much strife, but it came to pass. 490 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:57,960 Do we have a lot of strife? 491 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:03,200 Well, yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a, you know, great question, right? 492 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:04,200 Do we have a lot of strife? 493 00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:05,200 Publicly, privately? 494 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,200 All of that. 495 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,200 All of that. 496 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:08,760 We live in a time of strife. 497 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:09,760 We live in a time of strife. 498 00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:14,400 There began to be much strife, but it came to pass that Nephi and Lehi and many of their 499 00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:17,680 brethren who knew concerning true points of doctrine. 500 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:22,600 Okay, first thing, they knew the true points of doctrine. 501 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:29,280 The doctrine was, was really important to them, not, not, not so much some of the other 502 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,600 stuff, but the doctrine. 503 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:32,320 Okay, keep going. 504 00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:34,080 Having many revelations daily. 505 00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:35,600 There you go. 506 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:41,520 Therefore they did preach unto the people in as much that they did put an end to their 507 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:44,120 strife in that same year. 508 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:46,320 So what's the anecdote to strife? 509 00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:48,400 So true doctrine, right? 510 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:49,560 And daily revelations. 511 00:32:49,560 --> 00:32:50,560 Daily revelations. 512 00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:53,440 Fill in the Holy Ghost daily. 513 00:32:53,440 --> 00:33:00,560 I just, wow, I, I, I just don't know what we would, what I would do without the gift 514 00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:02,520 of the Holy Ghost in my life, Scott. 515 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,600 And I'm really, I know, I know Heavenly Father and His love and mercy gives all man the light 516 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,760 of Christ and light of Christ can, can be with everyone. 517 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:19,520 And even the power of the Holy Ghost can impress and inspire and edify and enlighten and bless 518 00:33:19,520 --> 00:33:22,040 all of God's children. 519 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:30,560 But wow, the gift of the Holy Ghost and to feel His presence and let Him administer the 520 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:36,160 love of God and the atonement of Jesus Christ in my life daily. 521 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,800 Why would I, how or why would I ever choose to walk away from that? 522 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:40,800 Yeah. 523 00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:46,520 So maybe I could just comment just for real briefly on that, you know, when we think about 524 00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:48,520 all of the strife that we have, and we all have it. 525 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,280 I was thinking about some of the strife that was really kind of tipping me over the other 526 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,280 day. 527 00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:56,120 You know, it was, it was getting to me. 528 00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,120 It was really, really getting to me. 529 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:00,200 I know, and in my head, I know all this stuff. 530 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:03,720 And in my heart, it's indelibly etched on my heart. 531 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:10,120 Or I know all this in my head, but in my heart, I know the truth and I know from where all 532 00:34:10,120 --> 00:34:11,720 comfort comes and stuff like that. 533 00:34:11,720 --> 00:34:16,440 But it's really sometimes easy for me to get caught up in my fallen self and let the 534 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:20,080 strife seem bigger than maybe I should let it. 535 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:24,560 But I got thinking about, and I, you know, I do what I do. 536 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:30,080 I went for a little walk and I am praying and I'm communing and I'm trying to just cry 537 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,120 out in my own little way, you know, I need to be better. 538 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:36,440 I need to get this right in my life because I, it's not feeling right. 539 00:34:36,440 --> 00:34:38,840 And it occurred to me and then I knew this. 540 00:34:38,840 --> 00:34:39,840 I've taught it. 541 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:40,840 I've learned it. 542 00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:44,840 We've talked about it on the podcast multiple, multiple times. 543 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:50,720 And if I have the spirit of the heavenly father spirit in my life daily, that they may always 544 00:34:50,720 --> 00:34:53,360 have his spirit to be with them, that kind of experience. 545 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:54,360 Right. 546 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:55,360 The sacrament promise. 547 00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:02,600 If I have that, then the strife is really not as big a strife as it seems. 548 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:08,080 And in some cases, not all, and I'm not, and I won't say that in all cases because I know 549 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,600 that as part of Heavenly Father's plan, it's intended for us to feel strife and grief and 550 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:14,320 all of these, I get that. 551 00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:19,440 So I know that not all my strife will be alleviated, but the strife that's unnecessary definitely 552 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,520 can be, especially as I court the spirit of the Holy Ghost in my life. 553 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:25,520 Yeah. 554 00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:26,760 No, exactly, Scott. 555 00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:34,040 You know, I, the supernal gift of the Holy Ghost that was elder packer, present packer's 556 00:35:34,040 --> 00:35:40,760 description, the supernal gift of the Holy Ghost is, is one of the really the, one of 557 00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:45,840 the most precious points of doctrine of the restoration. 558 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:52,840 And it happens to be the one that Joseph Smith chose to accentuate when asked by President 559 00:35:52,840 --> 00:36:01,160 Martin Van Buren when he went back to Washington, DC, seeking redress from all of the, the property 560 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,400 they had lost in Missouri. 561 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:08,720 And in this little conversation, it's reported that Martin Van Buren said, well, what is 562 00:36:08,720 --> 00:36:14,800 it about you Mormons that set you apart or well, how are you different from, from other 563 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:17,080 you know, Christians and churches? 564 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:22,360 And they hadn't, Joseph Smith said, we have the gift of the Holy Ghost. 565 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,360 Yeah. 566 00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:24,360 Yeah. 567 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:31,560 So, I mean, Scott, I have a, I have a testimony of that. 568 00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:36,680 And I know that through the gift of the Holy Ghost, I've been converted because he has, 569 00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:41,760 he's the one that administers, he's the messenger and the administrator of the Atonement of Jesus 570 00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,600 Christ in my life. 571 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:47,640 He's the messenger and the administrator of the love of God in my life. 572 00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:58,720 He is the, the, the, the motivator, the comforter, the, I mean, man, I just that gift of loan. 573 00:36:58,720 --> 00:37:05,360 Why, why would somebody walk away from that and not want that in their life? 574 00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:13,600 So that's, that's a really, maybe that's number one for me is the evidence and witnesses 575 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:19,760 that I've received from the Holy Ghost and have the precious gift of the Holy Ghost to 576 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:30,280 be my guide and comforter is worth more than all the riches of the world to me. 577 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:37,760 I, I can almost hear some of our listeners because I have felt this way. 578 00:37:37,760 --> 00:37:41,680 You know, I've spent a lot of my time in the margins of society, you know, especially 579 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:45,600 of the church and I don't know, but there was a time when I was sort of, and I'm, and 580 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:51,920 I'm wondering if as I might have at some point in my life as I hear this say, okay, that's 581 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,080 a great, but how do I get the Holy Ghost? 582 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:56,080 Yeah. 583 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:57,080 How? 584 00:37:57,080 --> 00:37:59,280 I mean, I, you know, and I, and I, even though I think I may know it and I, you know, and 585 00:37:59,280 --> 00:38:03,800 I feel like this is a checkbox experience, checkbox experience for me so that I can have 586 00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:05,920 the Holy Ghost in my life. 587 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:07,960 It's not necessarily the case. 588 00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:13,880 Well, I, I, I have just two things to say about that. 589 00:38:13,880 --> 00:38:18,200 Number one, I used to believe, and I've said this before, I used to believe when I was 590 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:24,880 a full-time missionary that it was so easy to lose the Holy Ghost and he was so hard 591 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:29,640 to get to be my daily constant companion. 592 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:30,640 That's kind of how I felt about it. 593 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:31,640 Yeah, I've heard you say that. 594 00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:34,760 It just seemed like it was so easy to lose him. 595 00:38:34,760 --> 00:38:39,840 You know, Scott, all these years later now, 50 years later, I'm just, I'm just the opposite 596 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:40,840 on that. 597 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:41,840 Yeah. 598 00:38:41,840 --> 00:38:44,440 It is really hard to lose the Holy Ghost. 599 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:45,440 Okay. 600 00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:46,440 So what do you think is the difference? 601 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,720 Do you think the difference between then and now is that you're living your life more 602 00:38:49,720 --> 00:38:55,040 righteously now and it's more abundant, or do you think it's just a way that you see it 603 00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:56,040 differently? 604 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,040 Both. 605 00:38:57,040 --> 00:38:58,040 Yes. 606 00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,040 Yeah. 607 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:00,040 Right. 608 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,040 Yes, both. 609 00:39:01,040 --> 00:39:02,040 Yeah. 610 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:08,480 And a lot of it really is, is my knowledge and understanding of the love of God and who 611 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:16,160 the Holy Ghost is and his purpose and just the idea that he really does want to be with 612 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,400 me. 613 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:19,400 God really wants me to have. 614 00:39:19,400 --> 00:39:24,680 God really knows I need to have the Holy Ghost to guide and direct me. 615 00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:33,960 And even in, even in some of my worst moments, God, I have tried to listen, remember, I think 616 00:39:33,960 --> 00:39:42,280 a lot of it said I remember and I try to remember and listen to the Holy Ghost and he's always, 617 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,360 he's always been able to bless me. 618 00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:53,000 So I, I think it's, I don't, I don't think I'm any better now than I necessarily was 619 00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:54,200 as a full-time missionary. 620 00:39:54,200 --> 00:40:00,000 I was pretty good missionary and worked hard to be obedient and true and faithful. 621 00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:07,800 And I mean, I was full-time and anyway, I, I don't know that I don't think I'm any more 622 00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:18,200 righteous now than I was then, I just have a clear understanding of who God is and the 623 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:25,840 power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in my life and daily repentance, daily repentance 624 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:31,960 and understand, you know, that the Holy Ghost really wants to be my friend and he really 625 00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:32,960 wants to be with me. 626 00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,920 If I choose him, he most, he almost always will be with me. 627 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,200 So anyway, that's my first point. 628 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:46,080 My second point is that we just need to be more mindful of it. 629 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:51,520 You know, I think, I think the Holy Ghost is really, if you're a baptized member of 630 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:57,520 the church, you receive the Holy Ghost, receive the Holy Ghost. 631 00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:01,520 The problem isn't the Holy Ghost wanting to be with us. 632 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:03,520 It's not, it's the problem. 633 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:07,160 If we don't feel the Holy Ghost, it's not probably because of him. 634 00:41:07,160 --> 00:41:10,880 It's because we have not received him. 635 00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,440 So how do we receive him? 636 00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:18,360 And to receive him, you have to desire him. 637 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:20,960 You have to be mindful of him. 638 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:29,680 You have to be seeking, thinking, trying to feel him in your life. 639 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:36,800 Anyway, I, I, I think a lot of it is just controlling our, our thoughts and emotions, 640 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:43,840 Scott, that if, if one doesn't control their thoughts and emotions, it's impossible to 641 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,440 really feel the Holy Ghost in your life. 642 00:41:46,440 --> 00:41:47,440 Yeah. 643 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,760 I also know that, I know this for a fact. 644 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:54,600 I know that when I'm under the influence of the adversary or the accuser, or I'm even, 645 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:59,640 even if I'm not under the influence per se, but I'm just listening even to the shouting 646 00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:05,520 whispers of the, of the adversary, the accuser, then I'm going to believe that. 647 00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,080 You know, what does the accuser want me to believe? 648 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:11,040 The accuser wants me to believe you can't have the Holy Ghost with you. 649 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,080 You don't deserve to have the Holy Ghost with you. 650 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,000 You have, you know, so leave sin, leave sin aside. 651 00:42:17,000 --> 00:42:19,760 You know, you haven't worked hard enough. 652 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:21,760 You haven't paid the price enough. 653 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:22,760 You haven't. 654 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:23,760 Yeah. 655 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:24,760 And to me, that's key. 656 00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:26,040 You know, you haven't paid the price. 657 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:27,400 No, I haven't. 658 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,400 But he has. 659 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:29,400 Yeah. 660 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:30,400 He has. 661 00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:35,400 And if I align with that price, then I'm entitled to have the, and by aligning with that price, 662 00:42:35,400 --> 00:42:40,400 all I have to do first of all is recognize my dependence on him, right? 663 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:41,400 Exactly. 664 00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:45,200 And then make a decision to turn my will and life over to him. 665 00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:46,200 Exactly. 666 00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,200 Yeah. 667 00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:51,080 It's, it's fun this year that we're studying the doctrine in covenants. 668 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,080 And I really, really love the doctrine in covenants. 669 00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:58,280 All, I love all the scriptures, but you know, I've always seen the doctrine in covenants 670 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:01,160 is kind of the book of mercy. 671 00:43:01,160 --> 00:43:07,280 And because over and over and over again, Scott, in the doctrine, covenants, it's the 672 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:10,480 Holy Ghost giving these revelations, right? 673 00:43:10,480 --> 00:43:17,280 The Holy Ghost is the one who's saying, I forgive you of your sins. 674 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:22,280 That's in there like two dozen times in the revelation, Scott. 675 00:43:22,280 --> 00:43:25,400 I forgive you of your sins. 676 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:30,000 And this is right after some of them have done some pretty stupid things. 677 00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:37,200 And I've, I've really as, as we study the doctrine, covenants this year, I really encourage 678 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:44,720 our families and our listeners to really hear the voice of the Lord as administered through 679 00:43:44,720 --> 00:43:51,880 the gift of the Holy Ghost, to hear the mercy and grace that the Holy Ghost whispers to 680 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:57,120 us if we would listen, if we would receive him. 681 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:07,160 So Scott, I, this, I know I'm hesitant to share this, but you know, not long ago, I 682 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:18,520 was just laying in bed and pondering about, you know, my life, my blessings, just, you 683 00:44:18,520 --> 00:44:25,920 know, who, who, who I am and the blessings I've received and being just enveloped, you 684 00:44:25,920 --> 00:44:36,160 know, by a spirit of love and joy and peace and feeling the presence of the, of the Holy 685 00:44:36,160 --> 00:44:39,600 Ghost and the, and the love of God. 686 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:47,600 And oh man, Scott, what a, what a sweet blessing. 687 00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:55,280 And one that we probably should receive more often, Brigham Young and others, you know, 688 00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:59,320 used to say we live far beneath our privileges. 689 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:05,200 And I think that's really true when it comes to the, to the witnesses and the peace and 690 00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,760 joy that can be administered into our life through the Holy Ghost. 691 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:20,480 If we would just focus more on how can I receive him, how can I recognize him and how can I 692 00:45:20,480 --> 00:45:27,920 be more true and respond to him, you know, the three Rs receive, recognize and respond 693 00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,480 to the Holy Ghost. 694 00:45:30,480 --> 00:45:37,160 And anyway, I, I'm really grateful for the, for that gift, Scott. 695 00:45:37,160 --> 00:45:44,520 So that's just, that's just one of the many reasons why I would choose to, to believe 696 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,040 and stay. 697 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,120 Scott under, under evidence and witnesses. 698 00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:55,680 I also have the teachings, testimony and experiences of others. 699 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:56,680 Right. 700 00:45:56,680 --> 00:46:03,760 And, you know, we're in the same family and I know there's been many times we've heard, 701 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:12,240 you know, experiences, same place, same time given by the same people, you know, my mother, 702 00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:17,800 your grandmother, you know, who knew and you knew that they knew. 703 00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:20,880 So there's four kinds of people in the church, Scott. 704 00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,320 Based on an Arabian proverb, I think it was Elder Packer who shared this years ago in, 705 00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:26,760 in I think a conference. 706 00:46:26,760 --> 00:46:28,080 There are four kinds of people. 707 00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:29,800 Here we go. 708 00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:39,520 Those who know not, but know not that they know not, they are a fool, shun them. 709 00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:40,680 That's according to the proverb. 710 00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:42,680 That's not me saying that. 711 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:55,120 Second, those who know not, but know that they know not, they are asleep, wake them. 712 00:46:55,120 --> 00:47:07,160 Those who know not, but know that they know not, they're simple, teach them. 713 00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:18,240 And those who know and know that they know, they are wise, follow them. 714 00:47:18,240 --> 00:47:24,320 That's a, there's those four kinds of people in the church. 715 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:32,400 And I, we have been in places and times and sometimes, you know, in my home growing up 716 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:37,720 and we have those family home evenings and we would hear my mother, your grandmother, 717 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:46,800 my dad, your grandfather and others who would share what they knew and we knew that they 718 00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:49,880 knew. 719 00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:56,000 I'm really grateful for all of those people in my life and that includes many leaders, 720 00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:02,520 family members and friends that have, that have strengthened, you know, my testimony 721 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:06,120 and my witness of the gospel of Jesus Christ. 722 00:48:06,120 --> 00:48:10,200 Well, and, you know, when you talk about these family and friends and those that were around 723 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,880 and in those settings, I absolutely experienced what you just described. 724 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:14,880 I did. 725 00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:15,880 I experienced that. 726 00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:21,560 I knew that they knew and that knowing helped me and that knowing helped to establish and 727 00:48:21,560 --> 00:48:23,720 made foundation for my knowing. 728 00:48:23,720 --> 00:48:29,560 It's not the only thing that I base my knowing on, but it created an important foundation 729 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:32,440 and it was important that we had those in those settings. 730 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:39,080 But what was even perhaps, and maybe it's an individual approach or reset receiving it 731 00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,560 in individually, but it was those moments that I spent alone with grandpa. 732 00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:44,560 Yeah. 733 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:45,560 Sure. 734 00:48:45,560 --> 00:48:47,640 And I was with my grandfather's, my grandpa Fagan too. 735 00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:51,440 It was those moments that, you know, it was those moments, for example, you know, when 736 00:48:51,440 --> 00:48:57,880 I would be with my grandpa Fagan and he would want to bless the food and tears would pour 737 00:48:57,880 --> 00:49:02,160 down his eyes every time he did because he felt the spirit, you know, and I know that 738 00:49:02,160 --> 00:49:03,920 and I knew, and I knew he knew. 739 00:49:03,920 --> 00:49:05,640 I knew he knew his father in heaven. 740 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:06,640 He had been through some rough stuff. 741 00:49:06,640 --> 00:49:07,880 He was talking to God. 742 00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:08,880 Yeah. 743 00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:09,880 I knew that. 744 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:10,880 And you're right. 745 00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,280 That is, and, you know, so, you know what, maybe that for me, here's another invitation 746 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:17,720 for me at least. 747 00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:20,440 Am I providing those experiences for those around me? 748 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:21,440 Yeah. 749 00:49:21,440 --> 00:49:27,880 Is my life, is the way I'm living my life such that those around me know I know and by my 750 00:49:27,880 --> 00:49:30,440 knowing can enhance their own knowing. 751 00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:32,000 Yeah, that's awesome. 752 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:38,120 And it wasn't just the quality of the people and the love that we have for the people, 753 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:39,760 the love they have for us. 754 00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:43,680 But when they said what they said, it was accompanied. 755 00:49:43,680 --> 00:49:49,400 It was carried from their heart by the Holy Ghost into our heart. 756 00:49:49,400 --> 00:49:50,840 I love the way you put that. 757 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:56,680 So there again, the Holy Ghost is ultimately the witness and testator of the things that 758 00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:59,200 we've heard others to know to be true. 759 00:49:59,200 --> 00:50:02,640 And you said it carried from heart to heart. 760 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,880 There's a difference between heart to heart than brain to brain. 761 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:06,880 Yeah. 762 00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:07,880 Yeah, for sure. 763 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,880 Isn't there? 764 00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:09,880 Oh, for sure. 765 00:50:09,880 --> 00:50:10,880 Yeah. 766 00:50:10,880 --> 00:50:13,160 But both we knew in our minds and our heart, right? 767 00:50:13,160 --> 00:50:14,760 Doctrine comes section nine. 768 00:50:14,760 --> 00:50:16,440 You better study it out. 769 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,680 You better know both make your own decision and cause it to burn inside you. 770 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:23,240 Yeah, right. 771 00:50:23,240 --> 00:50:31,960 And there's been so many, you know, my study in my teaching, Scott, you know, other evidences 772 00:50:31,960 --> 00:50:39,200 and other witnesses, for example, you know, the testimony of all of the eye and ear witnesses 773 00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:49,720 and the Savior and the miracles and the angels and all of those experiences that are throughout 774 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:52,320 the history of the church. 775 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,360 And I've received a witness that that really happened. 776 00:50:55,360 --> 00:50:58,880 These are not people who are who are making that up, right? 777 00:50:58,880 --> 00:51:01,200 That Joseph Smith really saw. 778 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:07,320 And there were there were witnesses along with him, except for the first vision in almost 779 00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:13,440 all of the other times that it's recorded that he saw the Savior or that he saw angels. 780 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,160 There were often most of the time individuals and other witnesses with him. 781 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:19,160 Yeah. 782 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:22,400 Oliver Cowdery, you know, never denied. 783 00:51:22,400 --> 00:51:25,760 He bore testimony, tell his deathbed. 784 00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:33,800 He had seen angels that angels had restored the priesthood, John the Baptist, Peter, James 785 00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:40,960 and John that he had seen Moroni, all of those things. 786 00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,480 Those are a big part of my testimony of the restoration, Scott. 787 00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:45,480 I love that. 788 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:50,320 And you know, as you're sharing that, it occurs to me that this principle is important and 789 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:54,480 can have sway in all important parts of our life. 790 00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:58,000 For example, you know, I'm a recovering alcoholic. 791 00:51:58,000 --> 00:52:02,160 I could not over and we'll talk about this when we talk about miracles and, you know, 792 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:04,640 not today because we're running out of time. 793 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:09,800 But but this still this still applies because my first Alcoholics Anonymous meeting, I went 794 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:12,560 there and I heard people who knew. 795 00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:13,560 Yeah. 796 00:52:13,560 --> 00:52:14,720 They knew God too. 797 00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:15,720 Right. 798 00:52:15,720 --> 00:52:19,240 They knew God in a different way than I knew him and in an important way that I would later 799 00:52:19,240 --> 00:52:20,800 come to know him. 800 00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:25,600 But they knew and I knew they knew and they're knowing that what did they know? 801 00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:28,880 They knew that there was power greater than that could restore them to sanity. 802 00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,480 If anybody needed sanity restored in their life, it was me. 803 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:33,480 Right. 804 00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:39,680 And so because I knew that they had experienced that and, you know, literally the spirit again, 805 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:43,640 bearing witness heart to heart, not brain to brain in those settings, too. 806 00:52:43,640 --> 00:52:45,280 I knew that God lived. 807 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:50,560 I knew that God loved me and I knew that through him and this instrument of grace that we call 808 00:52:50,560 --> 00:52:56,920 Alcoholics Anonymous and Recovery that I could return to him in a way that I could not have 809 00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:57,920 any other way. 810 00:52:57,920 --> 00:53:01,360 And I needed people before me to know that before I could know it. 811 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:02,360 Isn't that awesome? 812 00:53:02,360 --> 00:53:03,360 Yeah. 813 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:04,640 And Scott, that wasn't a church meeting. 814 00:53:04,640 --> 00:53:06,960 No, but God was there. 815 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,240 The Holy Ghost was there. 816 00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:09,240 100%. 817 00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:10,240 The Holy Ghost was there. 818 00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:15,320 The power of the Holy Ghost was witnessing and that's the love of God for all of his 819 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:16,320 children. 820 00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:22,040 And the Holy Ghost was there administering the effects of Christ's Atonement in the lives 821 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,040 of Alcoholics. 822 00:53:23,040 --> 00:53:24,040 Absolutely. 823 00:53:24,040 --> 00:53:25,440 And he does that every day. 824 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:27,440 That wasn't a church addiction program. 825 00:53:27,440 --> 00:53:28,440 That wasn't. 826 00:53:28,440 --> 00:53:29,440 No, it wasn't. 827 00:53:29,440 --> 00:53:30,440 I didn't go to that. 828 00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:33,440 Yeah, I didn't go to that until a couple months later. 829 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:39,800 And I think it's an important point we can make that we don't, church doesn't have any 830 00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:44,800 monopoly on miracles and witnesses and these kinds of things. 831 00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:47,480 I know there's a difference between the power of the Holy Ghost and the gift of the Holy 832 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:48,480 Ghost. 833 00:53:48,480 --> 00:53:55,520 And I know there's a difference between angels as messengers and angels restoring keys of 834 00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,520 priesthood. 835 00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,600 You know, there's a difference in that. 836 00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:04,400 But man, there's so many good people on the earth who God has witnessed to and the Holy 837 00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,000 Ghost has witnessed to. 838 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:13,560 And I'm really thankful for all of those people outside the church of other religions even. 839 00:54:13,560 --> 00:54:21,280 You know, the Muslim and the Buddha and the Hindu and others, you know, who I think Heavenly 840 00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:27,000 Father wants them to feel his love for them as well and and he'll administer that to them 841 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:32,760 through whatever means he decides to do it, which is best for them based upon their situation. 842 00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:38,520 And anyway, so we have eye and ear witnesses of the of the restoration. 843 00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:43,200 And then there's been there's been some times Scott in my life where I've heard living 844 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:48,120 prophets bear their witness, bear their testimony. 845 00:54:48,120 --> 00:54:57,280 And I not only knew that what they were saying was true, but I knew that he was a prophet. 846 00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:06,640 I've had eye and ear witnesses of the divinity of the call of a prophet in my life. 847 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:08,280 I don't have to. 848 00:55:08,280 --> 00:55:11,040 We don't have time to share share those. 849 00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:15,480 But there have been multiple share one. 850 00:55:15,480 --> 00:55:20,840 Well, I remember I'll never forget being alone in the Marriott Center. 851 00:55:20,840 --> 00:55:26,560 Well, I was I was alone, but there were 10 others that 10,000 other people there 10 up 852 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:28,360 10,000 other men there. 853 00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:30,720 Okay, I went alone. 854 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:31,720 Okay, okay. 855 00:55:31,720 --> 00:55:36,800 I went alone to priesthood meeting and all these brothers in there and I'm setting way 856 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,920 up kind of in the rafters so that I can be alone. 857 00:55:40,920 --> 00:55:46,520 And we're watching a kind of closed circuit. 858 00:55:46,520 --> 00:55:52,360 It was kind of new technology, right in the Marriott Center of priesthood meeting conference 859 00:55:52,360 --> 00:55:55,320 general conference priesthood meeting. 860 00:55:55,320 --> 00:56:02,680 And Spencer W. Kimmel was speaking and I think this was 1978 or 1979. 861 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:10,400 And I remember him at the near the end of his talks, God, which was a powerful talk 862 00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:17,440 and he was a he was such a powerful prophet for me and in the church in the world really 863 00:56:17,440 --> 00:56:19,280 I thought. 864 00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:24,120 But he said a paraphrase, but it's pretty close. 865 00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:32,160 He said, I bear you my testimony, quoting my predecessor, John Taylor. 866 00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:39,400 I know Jesus Christ lives because I have seen him. 867 00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:44,400 In the name of Jesus Christ, amen. 868 00:56:44,400 --> 00:56:52,800 And I remember going, it kind of took my breath away and I about fell off the bench and because 869 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:59,320 the witness, the power, the feeling again, the Holy Ghost bearing witness of that to 870 00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:03,440 me was undeniable. 871 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:11,840 And I have heard others who have shared their sacred experiences and I have known by the 872 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:16,800 power of the Holy Ghost that they knew. 873 00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:22,000 They knew that they knew and I knew it was true. 874 00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:29,720 So I'm really just thankful and hope I don't forget all of these experiences that the Lord 875 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:37,200 has blessed me with in evidences and witnesses of the truthfulness of the restoration of the 876 00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:38,200 gospel. 877 00:57:38,200 --> 00:57:39,200 Yeah. 878 00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:43,560 And I but I think it's important that we recall those and remembered them and reflect on those. 879 00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:44,560 Those are gifts. 880 00:57:44,560 --> 00:57:49,960 Those are gifts that are given to us to help provide guideposts in our lives. 881 00:57:49,960 --> 00:57:53,440 We have several other points that we'll be making in subsequent podcasts. 882 00:57:53,440 --> 00:57:59,560 I love the direction that I feel like we've been kind of inspired to to take with us. 883 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:00,560 Maybe you are as well. 884 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:02,560 Again, don't hesitate to send us your questions. 885 00:58:02,560 --> 00:58:07,440 But above all things, just just reflect, if you will, this week, our invitation will just 886 00:58:07,440 --> 00:58:14,720 be reflective on why is it that we believe you believe and why we choose to stay. 887 00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,560 We look forward to being with you again next week. 888 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:33,600 And until then, be well.