Hey there everybody, welcome back to another episode of Redeem Through His Blood.
Scott Durfey here, joined as always by David Durfey.
Hey Scott.
How are you David?
Great.
Good to be here.
Good to be back.
Yeah.
We've had a little bit of a break.
It wasn't intentional and I know that there were several days between each of the last
two podcasts.
We apologize for that.
We ran into some life stuff that just kind of derailed this.
Last episode though, we made an announcement that we were drawn this to a close.
That close is coming, but we're kicking the can down the road, right Dave?
We are.
Yeah.
As far as we can.
Still the plan.
As far as we can.
The best thing about it is we made that announcement last, whenever we recorded last, and then
we stood in my driveway and we both looked each other like, oh my gosh, this is coming
to an end.
I'm not sure I want this to happen.
We'll go until I'm out of the state or country or whatever.
Yeah.
And then he'll probably say, let's figure out a way to do it over the phone.
So I don't know.
We'll see how this goes.
I'm excited.
This last week though, when's the last time you were at the Grand Canyon?
Yeah, it's been two years.
I rode with a bunch of guys that I ride motorcycles with.
It's kind of funny.
All these guys that I ride motorcycles with, we look like a real bad motorcycle gang, but
every one of us are Melchizedek Priest and holders.
I'm sure you are a bad motorcycle.
And we call ourselves the Quorum, but we rode down there a couple of years ago.
It was amazing.
You just got back from there.
Stayed in the Kaibab Forest.
Wow, that Grand Canyon.
You know, Scott, I saw that when I was a little kid and I kind of remember it from the South
Rim, but I've never been to the North Rim.
So to go to the North Rim and to kind of tour around there, that was an amazing experience.
You know, that thing is like 200 miles long.
It's 20, it's one of the Seven Wonders of the World.
There was a person there from Holland.
And I said, you know, this is one of the Seven Wonders of the World.
And they said, it is, you know, people don't, right in our backyard, we, I don't know if
it's in our backyard, but just south of us is one of the Seven Wonders, natural, natural
wonders of the world.
200 miles long, 20 miles wide, more than a mile, more than a mile.
Deep.
I think it's 6,000 something feet deep.
Yeah.
It's unbelievable.
You know, there's probably a lot of our listeners that do this too.
But you know, Jane, Brian's wife, she does a rim to rim run every year.
Oh my gosh.
She'll start at one rim, run down into the canyon, run, what?
Run down into the canyon, run through the canyon, and then up out of the canyon.
Oh my goodness.
Pretty incredible, right?
That is incredible.
Wow.
Yeah.
Well, I'm glad you had a great time.
I wish you luck to Dave's going in tomorrow for some medical equipment change.
Yeah.
I'm not great at having surgery, but I guess I'm going to have to find out.
Bite the bullet.
Yeah.
We have a good looking guest.
You know, it is a good looking super.
I think super excited.
Some man that's super in the room with us today.
Super excited to have Craig with us today.
Craig's a really good friend of mine.
Craig say hello.
Hey, I'm happy to be on the podcast with you guys.
Yeah, we're glad to have you here, buddy.
So I've known Craig for, I think we decided 13 or 15 years, maybe even more.
Been pretty close friends over a good, good part of that over the last few years, especially
we've become especially close and working together in recovery and our own recovery
and others recoveries and just just a good, good man here.
So Craig, we brought you here because we, as we've done in the past, you know, we've
done a lot of interviews of people whose lives have been affected for the positive by the
Atonement of Jesus Christ.
It's interesting that I chose to use the word positive.
All effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ are positive in our lives.
Right.
And I've seen, I've been able to be witness to not all, but a lot of the miracles that
have taken place in your life because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
I know that you've been listening to the podcast and been, you know, kind of a, I guess I'm
hesitant to use the word fan.
No, I have been a fan.
Kind of a fan of the podcast at least.
follower.
Yeah.
And from what you've told me, because of the things that we talk about here and the things
that the Spirit has taught you through the things that we talk about here, you've seen
some big changes in your life.
Oh, definitely.
And my life has been enriched by listening to you two and, and examining and implementing
the principles of the Atonement that you guys speak of here.
And, and that's what I kind of would like to share today.
Yeah.
So Craig, talk to us a little bit.
Tell us, you know, what you'd like to about your growing up and, you know, did you grow
up in the church?
Were you in an active family?
Give us just a little bit of background.
Okay.
Yeah.
So my name is Craig Marks.
I was born in Price, Utah to two lovely people.
Is there anything lovely in price?
Well, sorry, Price.
I love Price.
Nine mile.
Yeah.
There's great things down there.
And my folks are from there and they met in high school and fell in love and got married
very young.
And then they had a daughter, my sister, and then me and we, they started a life together
and, and we had a really awesome life there.
They've been amazing parents to me for sure.
Everybody I know from Price are good people, you know, the Woodruff's, the McDonald's,
the, I think even, oh, forget their names.
But anyway, there's so many people that, that I have known come out of that little teeny
town and just salt of the earth, good people.
Yeah, that's a great place.
And we just found out that they're going to be building a temple there.
Isn't that amazing?
Wasn't it awesome?
Just enough.
So there will be something lovely in Price.
That's right.
My, my family down there, they're, I'm sure, very excited about that.
That's so exciting.
It'll be, it'll be great.
Right.
Yeah.
So growing up in Price, I love to play baseball.
I'm a, from a family of five kids.
I'm the second in line and was born there and had a great childhood, just really remarkable.
My parents are both active members, Christians, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day
Saints and, and they have been really instrumental in helping me to come to know Jesus.
And, and that's what I'd like to share today.
The, my journey kind of starts, I guess, with a diagnosis of a problem that I had as a child.
In the first grade, I started to have this limp and this problem was observed that I
had with my hip and it's a condition called Perthes disease.
And it's something that happens occasionally to kids.
It's a congenital disorder, degenerative disorder of the hip.
And so I had to wear a brace for a couple of years during my grade school years.
That can be hard, huh?
It was hard.
It was very hard.
And I think I was born a very sensitive kid as it is.
And so wearing a brace that strapped onto both legs was a difficult thing for me as
a child as I started to become very aware of what I thought people thought of me.
And so it's a very common thread in recovery stories that you'll hear is we become very
concerned with what our image is and what we think others think of us.
Absolutely.
And so that started for me at a very young age and then, you know, but that didn't slow
me down very much in spite of those difficulties.
I had an amazing childhood, even got to play sports.
My favorite sport is baseball and I got to play that through high school and even a little
bit in college.
And it was that hip condition limited me somewhat.
But so when I was 14, I went to my family moved to Roosevelt, Utah.
My mom got a teaching job out there and that took our family there.
It was a really miraculous thing that needed to happen as we found out later that our family
needed to move there.
And Roosevelt is a dear place and my parents still live there.
So we're our family shifted over there and I went to Union High School in Roosevelt and
played baseball and graduated from Union High in 1997.
And yeah, it was just life and trying to be a good young man, you know, everything sounds
like it's right on track.
So far, Craig, what happened?
So along the way, as I think I experienced a lot of the same travails and difficulties
that most young men in and out of the church experience, I had difficulties with things
like pornography, for example.
And I always wanted to, I tried to keep the gospel in my life.
It meant a lot to me.
But I started to have difficulties with things like that, struggles.
And I started to notice that I was very susceptible to certain devices, I guess you would say,
of the adversary and I certainly was.
And then so I ended up serving a mission in Mexico for two years.
It was a great experience.
And then came home and this hip problem that I mentioned, it kind of came home to Roost.
It started to have issues.
I met a gal down when I was going to school at SUU in Cedar City.
We met and dated and got married and kind of began our lives together.
But there was this lingering problem that would kind of rear its ugly head essentially.
Let me just push pause here for just a second.
I want to come back to this lingering problem, but I just kind of want to get a feel right
now for at this point in your life, what was your relationship with deity like?
How was that?
What was that all like at that time?
And before you start on that, before you, let me ask you some specific questions about
that.
So you went on a mission.
So you said this all started in high school, union high school.
And you were involved in other things.
So did you feel like you really repented before you went on your mission?
Absolutely.
Yeah, I went through the process of repentance.
Not as I know it today, but definitely the best I did.
What role did the savior play in your repentance in when you were 18, 19 years old?
Well, I read the miracle of forgiveness.
Didn't understand it.
And I just wanted to scared you though.
It scared me.
And and it did its work.
I mean, for 50 years, that book was printed and did its work and got got people to go
see their bishop and clean up their lives for sure.
Yeah.
I, it got me wanting to do good, right things, you know, and it put me on the
covenant path and I wanted to serve a mission.
I knew that I needed to serve a mission.
I felt that in my heart.
And so I became worthy to do that and thankfully was able to go.
And what kind of missionary would you say you were and was the savior?
Did he become more important part of your life?
Yes, absolutely.
Those two years are, I look back with fondness on them.
I, I poured my heart and soul into my missionary service in Mexico.
I really enjoyed that time.
I dedicated my life to the savior and trying to help others.
And as I've learned, you know, in recent years, let's say the last 10 or 12 years,
people with addictions, we have to have a purpose.
And I think at that time in my life, my purpose was in being a missionary filled that void
that I would later fill, you know, in my life that I experienced as a missionary.
I had that.
So I served that mission honorably and had an amazing experience.
I love the people of Mexico.
I came home and I just started to have troubles spiritually falling off the covenant path.
If we want to use that as the, I love, I love that President Nelson speaks of that, that
way, the covenant path, because it makes it very clear.
You know, a person knows if they're on or off the covenant path.
And, and I started to fall off of the covenant path and without getting into specifics.
My spiritual connection with the savior specifically started to dwindle, even having had those really
remarkable experiences for two years.
Craig, can I ask you a question?
Yeah.
Did you really fall off?
Because when we fall off something, that seems like that was accidental.
All right.
You know, or was there more?
I just wasn't directing my intentions correctly.
Yeah, it definitely was the result of not taking care of things that I knew I needed
to do with regard to the gospel.
So sometimes when we fall, it's because we lose our grip.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
It was the difference between losing your grip or that and choosing another path.
What's the difference?
Well, I mean, is there, is there a difference?
It can be hazy.
I'm asking you.
Yeah.
You guys see this.
Yeah.
So to me, there is no difference, right?
I mean, initially, it can feel like there's a difference because initially we can think,
oh, my gosh, look where I am.
How did I get here?
But if we go back and take a real inventory, right, Craig?
If we go back and take a real moral and searching, fearless inventory of ourselves, we'll realize
that we started making decisions or we quit making decisions that would keep us on the
path.
And when we do that, you know, even though it may, it may seem accidental, it was intentional
because our focus was lost, our intent was lost.
And when we do that, then, you know, that's an intent.
And when that happens, then when you, you said something really interesting there, Scott,
you said, when we, when we choose, we didn't say choose, but when we stop making decisions.
Yeah.
The right decisions.
When you stop choosing.
Yeah.
When you walk on the covenant path, you have chosen to walk on another path, which is a
decision, which is a decision.
Right.
Absolutely.
I think that's the key principle with all of this is the principle of agency, you know,
and how, how and accountability and accountability, how we use our agency and then what the results
of that are.
And so I, I experienced that in full force and, and Craig, we know, I know, I know personally
that you have accountability, you know, and I, but I want to point that out because I
think there's a lot of us, all of us at some points will refer to, well, I fell or well,
I stumbled or well, I, this happened to me, you know, or even, even the phrase, you know,
what the phrase that bothers me lately is I'm broken.
Yeah.
And it makes it sound like there's nothing I could have done about that.
I'm just broken.
Uh-huh.
I fell off the shelf and I know what they're saying and there's, you know, but I just,
there's no accountability in that.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And if there's no accountability, there's no solution because if seriously, if we're,
if we are unaccountable for our progress, then there can be no progress.
So what's a better way to say it?
Instead of saying I fell off or instead of saying I'm broken, what do we say?
We own it.
I made bad choices.
Yeah.
I chose, I chose these things and this was the result of my, I knew better.
I knew I should move.
I knew I, I, I can imagine the consequences, but I made the choice anyway.
We just don't know.
Well, we just chose to take a little detour from your story.
Sorry about that.
Yeah.
But, but no, this is important.
That's really important.
Because I, I think the, the points that come out in our stories, if we don't, if we don't
make them known to others, maybe they get missed and that's a really important.
Yeah.
That's a subtle, but important, very important truth.
And I think it'll come through and correct me if I'm wrong.
In fact, you know, I'm saying this without fear of successful contradiction for you,
but, but you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but it will come out that all of that's true
for you too.
You know, that you make a decision to turn your will in your life over again, right?
Eventually and so forth.
So, you know, how did all of this start to point you in the right direction?
Yeah.
So, um, after coming home from serving a mission, uh, I, I met, as I mentioned, uh, a gal and
Cedar, Cedar city and, uh, were you playing baseball down there?
Yeah.
I, I played in the fall and then decided it wasn't for me anymore.
I, that wasn't, uh, time to move on, time to move on and get a career.
And I wanted to, uh, grow up, I guess, uh, I felt the, the need to do that.
So I, my pursuits in school, I, I was drawn toward chemistry and decided to go into pharmacy
as a profession.
Um, I did well in chemistry and pharmacy.
And so I met these awesome mentors down there and, um, and I pursued that path, got married,
uh, in the process.
And then we began, began a family, having a family together, had a son together and eventually
would have three kids, um, with each other, three, three other kids, uh, three daughters
also.
Um, but at, after SUU, I graduated from there and then I went on to pharmacy school at Creighton
University in Omaha, Nebraska.
Yeah.
Many times.
Yeah.
It's a wonderful place.
Uh, so I went to graduate school there.
First, first generation graduate student in my family.
My, my mom was actually the first generation, uh, college graduate.
So we were breaking these barriers that hadn't been broken in, in our families.
Um, and it felt really awesome to, to pursue these educational things, you know?
Um, but I went to graduate school, uh, pharmacy school and I wanted to have this career that
was safe and, and was, um, provided security for my family and all of those things.
I wanted to be a good provider, good husband, good father, all of those things.
Well, through, in the course of pharmacy school, um, my hip condition started to, uh, worsen
and I, I went to the doctor and I started to get a prescription for pain medication.
Uh, that's how it began.
Um, and I knew that that was a very slippery slope, but I did it anyway.
I went on that path.
I had taken, um, uh, opiate pain medication in high school after an injury that I had
sledding and I knew that that chemical, those chemicals really, um, I knew that they spoke
to me that they had a very strong, uh, uh, influence on me personally.
It changed something about me essentially.
And knowing that I still went down that path.
So that was a choice.
That was where I used my agency.
Um, and I started down this pain management path.
I needed pain management because I was in severe pain from my hip, but what was your
activity in the gospel?
Jesus Christ.
Uh, at that time, I was actually the elders corn president in Nebraska in the ward that
that we were living in.
Yeah.
And I spiritually, I was doing, I felt that I was doing well and I was still trying to
help people and all of those things, but I hadn't, you know, in recovery, we talk a
lot about you stand at the turning point.
We stood at the turning point.
Yeah.
That was when, if I look back on my life and my history, that's one of those turning point
moments that I didn't recognize as a turning point, but it certainly was, uh, the decision
to get on these pain medications that I knew were going to be a problem for me.
President Hinckley used to call that a switch point.
Yeah.
And he compared it to the railroad and how one would go to Chicago and the other one
maybe the Dallas or wherever.
I think, I think one of the cities was St. Louis.
And anyway, you stand at that switch point and you just move that track just a little
bit, a little turn, just a little bit.
And, and it'll determine, you know, which location you go to North or South.
Yep.
And that's where I stood at that time.
And I, so I started down this path of, uh, and quickly became the wrong track.
Yeah.
I was on the wrong track.
I had good, good analogy.
So I was like in my third year of pharmacy school and I started to, I became physically
dependent on opiate medication, um, including, um, oxy cotton, which has come out to, um,
there's a lot in the news and media about quite a lawsuit, the, uh, things that have
come out as a result of that.
But anyway, I was in the middle of the opiate, uh, epidemic and I was right there.
So I started to do this, I became physically dependent and then I became, um, emotionally
and, and, uh, dependent also, and then eventually addicted to the opiate pain, pain medication.
And that would have major ramifications on my life.
My marriage, um, would start to deteriorate.
Um, after pharmacy school, I took a job at the university of Utah hospital in Salt Lake,
dream job, amazing people, great place.
Uh, I couldn't have scripted my life to go in a better path at that point.
I took this job at the U of U. I loved it.
I was working there and I had this thing that I was carrying with me, this addiction that
I brought with me and it was so painful.
And, um, I did not re recognize how much sway it had over me, how much power it had over
me and how much my, of my agency I was giving back over to the adversary, essentially or
to, um, I was giving up my agency.
I started to lack the ability to choose essentially what I would do.
And that's the danger of addiction is that we lose our ability to even have a choice
in certain matters.
That's what's so harmful and dangerous to an addict is that you come to a point and
Scott knows what I'm talking about where you don't even have the ability to choose otherwise.
Right.
In fact, I, I remember and I've made reference to this several times on this podcast, but
I remember in a priestess session of general conference, maybe 10 years or so ago, elder
Oaks actually stood up and was talking about addiction among other things probably, but
I don't remember everything else, but he said that he said addiction robs us of our ability
to choose.
Yep.
And it's true.
And that's what it was doing in my life.
And so it, it was starting to really wreak havoc and I was, um, I was hurting the people
around me in an effort to maintain, uh, the chemical high and the, the pursuit of, of
being on that medication.
And I still had this physical problem that needed to be addressed.
And, uh, but that kind of took a side, that was a sidebar at this point.
The addiction was front and center.
In the middle of all of that, describe your spiritual life.
You know, what's, what's going on in your spiritual life when you're at the University
of Utah?
Yeah.
So my spiritual life, uh, had taken a complete backseat, um, in part because I was, I was,
we moved back to Utah and I started to become the guy that portrayed a certain image of
a spiritual man, you know, and, but I wasn't that man deep down inside.
And so I was living a double life and that's the worst existence that I think a person
can be involved in when, when you have the benefit of, uh, hindsight to look back on
it.
Thankfully, I have that benefit today.
I can look back and say that I was living a double life.
So I was pretending to be one guy and I was actually a different person deep down inside
and I was a liar and a cheat.
And so the turning point was I was at the University of Utah.
I was experiencing tremendous overwhelming withdrawal symptoms from natural physical withdrawal
symptoms from the opiate medications.
And I chose to reach for those pills on the shelf that were not mine, that were my employers
and I stole that were DEA inventory.
Yeah.
The DEA had an inventory of those DEA drug, uh, drug enforcement agency.
Okay.
Yeah.
So the, all of those medications that are narcotics are, uh, scheduled medications and
they're closely watched.
Well, I made the decision, I guess you could say it was, like I said, my agency had been
hampered severely, but I, I reached out and I started to take these pills, um, without
a prescription, without anything.
And then that, that was really another turning point moment that I knew I couldn't come back
from.
And eventually that all led me, uh, brought me to my knees.
I had a moment of clarity, uh, a few months months later, I actually had my hip replaced
during the course of all of this, um, in an effort to hopefully, I, I had the illusion
that by having the medical or the medical treatment of the hip replacement that that
would solve all of my problems.
But I knew deep down inside that my problems were greater than my favorite, um, definition
of addiction is the persistence of a behavior in the face of overwhelming evidence that
is harmful to you and others.
I like that.
I like that, uh, definition because when a person persists in a behavior in the face
of that evidence, they are in the grips of addiction.
And so I was there.
I was, uh, completely wrapped up.
As I said, I had forfeited much of my agency and, uh, I, I had a moment of clarity.
I was actually changing my little girl, Sonora, her diaper one day and I had all these lies
that I was working and scheming and all of these things.
And I just saw clearly God showed me that, uh, my life would end tragically if I didn't
make a decision right there and then to do something about it.
Um, and that these kids would grow up without a father.
And so I took the initial steps to get help and that included, um, outing myself to my
employer, um, very, very humbling experience.
Uh, my wife was already aware of, uh, everything that was going on.
Well, most things that were going on, but, um, I sought help.
I lost my job as a result of coming forward, but I was able to be gifted or granted an
opportunity to receive help.
So I went to a treatment facility and then, um, through that experience and others, I
eventually, uh, became part of the 12 step, um, community and you know, that was the,
that was the first attempt at getting clean and sober or correcting my life, getting my
life back on track, but it would be a few years later before I really hit that, what
we call a rock bottom.
Don't you mean when we choose that rock?
Yeah.
When I arrived at that rock bottom as a result of my choices, Scott taught me something that's
never will leave me.
I pray rock bottom is not a destination.
It's a decision.
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
I love that.
You don't magically.
Not a destination because, because if it was a destination, you should have hit it
a long time ago.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
You know, you could have been in your forces and losing your wife and all that.
I mean, you know, that should have been your rock bottom, but have we, have we answered
the question?
What's the difference between being an addict?
I think that he alluded to that.
But you know, I would, so what I heard you say in was, you know, there came a point when,
you know, I don't remember you saying these words, but I'm getting it that there came
a point where you lost the ability to choose.
So yeah, it's addicted.
Right.
But now that it's affecting and kind of replacing our spiritual life, I mean, that's what happens
with drugs and alcohol is they become a quasi spiritual life for us.
Yeah.
And so we step away and I think that's where the addiction part comes in.
Am I right?
Yeah.
For you on that?
That's right.
Yeah.
That pursuit to feel a certain way became paramount in my life.
It was everything.
And so everything else was cast aside, unfortunately.
And that's what happens in the lives of addicts.
So Craig, let's start transitioning, if we can, into where do the effects of the atonement
of Jesus Christ.
And so, so far right now, what I've heard you explain is a fallen world.
Yeah.
A fallen Craig, a fallen natural, your experience to the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve,
death, physical death, everything that you've talked about right now has been in response
to and as an effect of the fall of Adam and Eve.
We talk about in this podcast that the way that we overcome the effects of the fall of
Adam and Eve is through Jesus Christ's atonement, the effects that come from his power made available
to us rather through his atonement.
At what point and where did you begin to see this happening was a flood all at once?
Did it trickle in for you?
What was your effort involved?
Why was that important for you to begin that relationship and down that process?
Yeah.
So after I went to treatment in Oregon, I came back and my then wife, she asked for a separation
and a divorce.
And so we went through that path and that was extremely harrowing experience, very hard
thing to try to endure as a sober person, you know, without all of the tools and skills.
Yeah.
So let me just push pause for a sec.
When he says for a sober person, that's not going to mean a lot to a lot of people.
But here, so let me just put some color context around what that means for a sober person.
So here's a guy, he's been addicted to and dependent on not just for physical, but for
emotional and spiritual and mental relief.
He's been addicted to these drugs, right?
These opiates opiates and heroin are the same thing just in different form.
I mean, so that put it a little bit in context, right?
And so here's a guy that's gone through all of that.
He's gone to a really well known treatment center right up there, like everybody's heard
of Betty Ford.
This one's kind of like that.
So he's been to this.
He comes home, he's gone to work.
He's now at this treatment center 90 days, heroin.
Yeah.
90 day over 90 day over a 90 day treatment center.
So he's in this treatment center, getting clean, getting working through his physical
and mental withdrawals and all of that.
Finally starting to feel a little bit of the sunlight of the spirit, I'm assuming.
Coming home and thinking I'm getting all my stuff together and then you walk home and
into that.
And you are ill equipped.
You are ill equipped.
Am I wrong?
No.
You are totally ill equipped to deal with the emotional turmoil that was standing in
front of you.
Yeah.
I was not equipped to deal with what was coming.
And so I tried my best out of sheer willpower to stay on the path.
I ended up in our separation.
We were separated for about six months or so and the kids were with her and that was
very hard.
And then eventually I ended up getting a job back in pharmacy.
I had someone take pity on me, essentially some people that I knew out in the UNO basin.
They were very kind and gave me a second opportunity knowing my circumstances.
They gave me a shot as a pharmacist.
I went back into that career and about three or four months into that I relapsed and started
back down the path.
And you know, that was a very hard thing when you think that you have gotten a certain hold
on something and then it rears its ugly head again and you used to come to that.
That was really hard.
So I found a new bottom in all of that and I proved a lot of people who didn't think
I could do this right.
Essentially, I had several people I think that were like, yeah, you probably aren't
going to make it out.
And I don't know and Scott can speak to this too, but the grace that is afforded someone
who's given opportunity after opportunity is so tremendous.
I was given so much grace and I didn't recognize it at the time that I was receiving that,
but I was given all this grace.
I had this moment.
I'll be very quick in saying it.
I had a moment after this relapse where it was made clear to me that my life was not
going to go move forward in the way that it was, that I was living it if I continued.
And so my younger brother Preston, he's a dear soul to me.
He asked me a question one day when I was down and out.
He said, how much longer do you think you can go on like this?
And that hit me like a ton of stones.
And it hit me so hard with the force and I said I can't go on like this anymore.
And all of us that know you are grateful for that stoning you took that for sure.
Well Craig, in just the last few minutes that we have of the podcast today, what I'd
really like to hear you talk about is so so far we've heard about what it was like.
You know, we hear a little bit about what happened.
Why don't you just kind of finish that with what happened?
Talk to us about your relationship with Jesus Christ and His Atonement and how that's made
the difference for you and your life.
Okay.
Thank you for this opportunity.
I really appreciate it.
I admire both of you and what you're attempting to do and bring this message to others.
I had an opportunity to fill the redemption and experience the redemption that comes
and can only come through the Savior.
I stood at that last turning point and it was a literal choice between moving forward,
living and or ending my life is what it came to.
I felt that those were the terms and conditions that I was presented with.
And in that moment I surrendered to God and I gave up my will in order for Him to show
me a new life.
And that's the journey that I started out on.
I knew it was going to be very rocky and hard.
It has been.
I started on this path of recovery and it has been remarkable.
I'm in the rooms of recovery now.
I moved out here to Utah Valley to be close to my kids.
Eventually I would meet my sweet person named Aaron who is absolutely wonderful in every
way.
She's a doll.
I call her the glue that's put me all back together.
She has loved me in a way that I've needed and I'm so thankful for her.
We met about six years ago and started dating and then got married and we now have two kids
of our own, a four year old and a two year old.
But anyway, I want to try to encapsulate this.
I felt that I was just out of reach of the Savior's love.
I had had this amazing experience of surrender that every addict and alcoholic must face.
I had come to this point of surrender and I had tapped into my relationship with a very
loving God.
I felt the love of God again and that's what sustained me through all of the ups and downs
of early recovery and sobriety.
I was missing a vital piece to the puzzle and the only piece which is Jesus Christ.
I wondered how I could tap into that because I knew I had a relationship with the Father
with God because I prayed to Him for strength and for courage.
But I didn't know how Jesus could help me as a man and as a father and as a husband.
And so I made that my intention and my desire and I started to pray to God for an experience
to know His Son.
And I was telling Scott a while back that I had an experience recently.
My oldest son, Dallin, he's 20 years old.
He and I have, as a result of my actions and things that I've talked about here, our relationship
isn't the best that it could be.
It isn't what I want it to be and hopefully not what he wants it to be eventually.
But I have, right now, we're not in communication, but I have this longing to be with my son.
I desire, I want so badly to have him in my life and to sucker him and to love him and
show him compassion and whatever he needs.
And it was in this thought and in this moment that I prayed to the Lord and I had an experience
where God showed me that that love that I have for my son is exactly the same love that
Jesus Christ has for me.
And my desire to be close to him is exactly what the Savior wants with each of us.
And so I want to make the rest of my life, however long that is, and with you gentlemen
and others, I want to make it my purpose to share that message of hope that Christ is
there when he says come unto me, he means it.
His arms are stretched open to us and we need to come to him and it has been my experience
and I can testify that Jesus Christ can make you whole, the parts of you that are lacking,
that you feel are not right, and you know what those are better than anyone else, that
Jesus Christ through his amazing and inexplicable atonement can fill all of that for us.
And that's what has happened for me.
So there's a difference, there's a difference, right, Greg, between recovery and then use
this word.
And I was really grateful you use this word.
You said my redemption.
There's a difference between recovery and redemption.
Can you kind of describe the difference between addicts who go through recovery and addicts
who are redeemed?
Oh, that's a great question.
Yes.
I think the difference lies in conversion, conversion through the Spirit and through
our Savior.
And that's what I've experienced, this deep change that can't be unchanged, that can't
be reversed, I should say.
When you experience a true conversion to Jesus Christ, as I feel that I have now through
repentance and through his amazing grace, you cannot go back to what you were before.
You are transformed.
That's the difference between living a life of recovery and all of these attempts and
I'm trying and I'm doing and, you know, I'm making these efforts and all of these things
and actually just receiving that grace.
It's not, you can elaborate on this.
So you know, atheists and agnostics can change their behaviors and experience recovery and
overcome addictions, but through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, through real repentance,
true repentance, you know, we've talked about this so many times, three seasons now, it
comes down not to changing your behavior, but it comes down to Christ changing your
nature.
Yes.
Is that what you're saying and why have you experienced that or how have you experienced
that now and why didn't you why didn't you experience that when you repented before your
mission or on your mission or what's the difference?
The difference I think is has been a willingness to number one, come into a covenant relationship
with the Savior and making him the power source for all of what I do and what I want to accomplish.
If I'm driving at something and I want to accomplish something out of my own sheer will
and force and I'm excluding the Lord and in all of that desire to make others happy,
desire to be a good boy, desire to be a obedient missionary.
You know, there were lots of good great reasons why you served a successful mission, but I'm
not sure that you experienced the same level of conversion on your mission that you've
experienced in the past few years, right?
Yeah, absolutely.
It's been an amazing process because and that's the mercy and love that the Savior has for
each of us.
He loves us so much that he's willing to allow us to have our individual experience with
him and in a way that is so meaningful to each of us that it can have an impact forever,
you know, eternally.
And that's what I love about the Atonement is that there's no limit to it.
There's no limit to the experience that we can each have with the Savior because it just
grows, it broadens as we share it with others.
And so that's what I hope my new mission is and purpose is in life the rest of my life
to share this message.
Hopefully with other Christians, I have a desire to help loved ones of addicts, especially
I'm going to put together something for loved ones of addicts who are trying to support
their addicted and spiritually ill people in their lives.
I feel prompted to do that.
And so I'm going to put together something with my siblings, actually.
It's called My Brother's Keeper.
It's going to be a really cool thing.
And my siblings can speak to it and they've helped me tremendously.
I have, I just am so grateful.
I when this is the thing that I talk to the men that I am able to help in the rooms of
recovery is I tell them, no matter what you face today, if you really consider the amazing
grace that brought you here and has allowed you to still be here, Scott and I have lost
countless numbers of friends and people that we've come to know in the rooms of recovery
who have died as a result of this awful disease.
Relapse.
Relapse and if we're gifted this ability to move forward, we better do something with
it.
And that's what I intend to do.
And I just, I think both of you for allowing me to share my story.
So yeah, now I'm a general contractor.
I'm not a pharmacist anymore, but my life has is so rich and so full and I love the Lord
and I love the gospel and amazing things are going to happen as a result of this experience.
I can't let it go to waste.
I have a friend named Jason who said, if you don't share your story, he's he's also in
recovery and a member of the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
He says, if you don't share your story, if you don't come back, then there won't be an
Alma the younger.
There won't be a Paul to share a story of redemption.
We need people to lift others up who are struggling because we don't always, you know, not everyone
comes to the gospel of Jesus Christ in the same with the same parameters.
You know, well, it might, it might be too sacred.
I know we're probably going a little long, but it may be too sacred to share or whatever.
So I don't want want you to, if you feel that way.
But so Paul had an experience Alma had an experience.
It was an event.
Was your, was your coming to the Lord and your redemption?
Would you say it was more of an event or was it more of a process?
Did it happen?
Was there something that happened that you can identify as an event or did it just happen
gradually over time little by little here, here, here a little there a little kind of
a mixture of the two.
It's been a process and I've had to learn and grow and be transformed as a result of
that process.
But one pivotal moment was when I felt the overwhelming love of Jesus Christ in that
moment, I made a commitment and a covenant with him that I would use that grace that
he had afforded me to bless the lives of others.
And that is where I've felt this amazing influx of power and love.
And it, that's been the big turning point for me.
I prayed and I said, God, if you're going to give this to me, I'm going to use it for
good.
And that's what I intend to do.
And that's what I know you guys are trying to do.
Also, that's that was a pivotal moment.
And you said, quote, in that moment.
So it was a moment.
Yeah.
A blinding moment.
Yeah.
When Alma recounts his experience to his son, I love it.
It's just so you can relate to it.
Oh, it brings me to tears every time that I read it.
How great was my sorrow?
And how overwhelming was my joy?
And if you take that whole chapter of Alma 36, Gray, and you turn it into chiasmus, do
you know the center, the center point of the chiasmus?
I don't.
Okay, I'm going to read it to you.
Okay.
And the center, he is, this is really amazing and what a, what a testimony of the prophetic
call of Joseph Smith, because Joseph Smith is a, as a young man in his twenties could
not have invented this.
But in this, the whole chapter is written in chiasmus and the Hebrew literature for
and here's the center.
You would take the whole chapter.
Here's the center and then I'm going to read it and then have you just respond to it.
Now as my mind caught hold, this is verse 18.
Now as my mind caught hold upon this thought, I cried within my heart.
Oh Jesus, thou son of God, have mercy on me who am in the gall of bitterness and am encircled
about by the everlasting chains of death.
And now behold, when I thought this, I could remember my pains no more.
Yay, I was harrowed up by the memory of my sins no more.
And oh what joy and what marvelous light I did behold.
Yay, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain.
That's just, is that the moment?
That's the moment.
Yeah.
When you experienced that reversion, that life or death, you had come to that, that place.
Yeah.
And how great was my joy?
How great is my joy today because of that mercy that was extended to me?
And I hope that it's my prayer that I can continue to share that joy and that light.
I love the concept of light.
We bring light to the world.
Christ brought light to the world and we carry it for Him and we need to do that for others.
That's what we can do and we can make a difference, no doubt about it.
Well, we're grateful, Craig, that you chose light and life and came out of the darkness
and spiritual death that you were in and grateful for all of those who have had that influence
in your life.
Thank you for letting me share my story with you.
I am a front row seat to have a front row seat to Craig's life by nature of our relationship
and I am so, so grateful for that.
I can tell you, however, that Craig's life is still not perfect.
I can tell you that life and life's events still come at Craig just like it does at
all of us.
This hasn't been the thing that has made Craig's life a lottery winner against all things that
have fallen.
He still faces them and he still deals with some things like we all do again that can
be extremely challenging to us.
The difference is today he hangs on to, he cleaves to his covenants and he hangs on to
the things that continually bring him peace in his life.
I love you, Craig.
Thanks, Scott.
I love you too.
Thanks for being here.
Any final thoughts, any final words that you'd love to impart to us?
I want to express my gratitude and I hope that anyone who hears this would open up their
heart to whatever it is that is troubling you.
I know that the Savior can not only understand but he will help you in whatever it is that
you're facing and your listeners, I'm sure, as I have been helped by previous podcasts,
I just pray that you make yourself open to the Lord and he'll show you in his own way,
unique way, you'll have an experience not unlike my own.
He longs.
He does.
Longs for to have a relationship with us, doesn't he, Craig?
Yes.
I loved the way you described that with your son.
You long to have a relationship with someone and your son may not even realize that fully
as we don't realize it fully at times in our life, how the Savior longs to have a closer,
more personal, redemptive relationship with us.
Anyway, thank you so much for being here today.
Thanks for being with us, Craig.
If you're open to it, Craig, I'm going to invite our listeners to send emails to heredeemsosatgmail.com.
If you have any questions for Craig, have any comments for Craig encouragement, whatever,
please send those to heredeemsosatgmail.com.
I'll forward those on to Craig and we'll see if we can get those responded to Craig.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Once again, I love you.
I love your passion behind all that you do.
I love your more than anything.
I love your relationship and it's evident to me as your sponsor and as your friend,
it's evident to me that your relationship with your heavenly father through his spirit
and as is accommodated to us through his son, Jesus Christ.
I love to be a part of that.
I love to watch that and I can encourage you to continue in that vein.
The second best thing about Craig, actually maybe the first best thing about Craig is
Aaron and his kids.
And I want Aaron to know I love her and the kids.
You have a wonderful, wonderful dad.
Please, please, please listen and feel the things which you have heard today.
Thanks for being with us, everybody.
We invite you and encourage you to be with us again next week.
Until then, be well.