1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,120 Hey there everybody. We have run into some challenges in linking our schedules up this week. 2 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:13,840 So for that reason we'll be playing a wonderful on-core presentation of our good friend Nick. 3 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:20,720 Many of you have potentially heard this interview. For those of you who have, you know that it's 4 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:26,640 worth listening to again. For those of you who have not, we have made reference to this multiple 5 00:00:26,640 --> 00:00:33,840 times since we did this interview with Nick many, many months ago. So please enjoy the podcast. 6 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:42,560 We hope to be with you again live next week and until then take care everybody. 7 00:00:42,560 --> 00:01:00,480 Hey there everybody. Welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. Scott and David 8 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:06,880 Durfee here. How's it going Dave? Good Scott. Good to be here brother. And we have a friend. 9 00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:12,080 Yeah we have a close friend. I'm going to introduce her in just a second. But before I do that I 10 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:18,960 would just want to tell everybody thank you for your emails and questions etc. Don't hesitate to 11 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:24,560 keep those coming and send those at he redeems us at gmail.com. Dave just mentioned we have a guest 12 00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:31,760 with us today. This will be our first live guest. We did do an on-core guest I guess interview when 13 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:38,080 we had Deb, my wife, do hers a few weeks ago. That was just a rerun of a recording that we had done. 14 00:01:38,080 --> 00:01:42,560 I think this is our first interview this season. Maybe our only one. I don't know that's kind of 15 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:48,480 the way it's leaning. And we really hadn't talked. We hadn't decided not to do interviews but we 16 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,960 hadn't really talked about what we were going to do as far as interviews. The other day I'm having 17 00:01:52,960 --> 00:01:59,600 a conversation with a young man that is here with us today who I've known for some time. And it just 18 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:06,320 hit me that it's time to have Nick on the podcast and get his perspective on the things that we talk 19 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,920 about. I want to introduce my good friend Nick. Nick and I have known each other for a while now. 20 00:02:11,920 --> 00:02:17,360 I'm going to let him talk about that. Nick, why don't you do that? Just say hey to everybody. 21 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:23,280 Kind of introduce yourself. Tell everybody how we met and maybe just take three or four minutes 22 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:30,960 and do that. Hey guys, my name is Nick. Grateful to be here. Thanks for having me. I met Scott 23 00:02:30,960 --> 00:02:38,080 in the rooms of recovery probably a little over three years ago. And just listen to what he had 24 00:02:38,080 --> 00:02:46,400 to say about church and recovery, which for me at the time I was struggling with those two. I 25 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:51,200 loved recovery and I wanted nothing to do with the church. But I also loved my relationship 26 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:58,080 with God. And as I started to build a relationship with the Savior, I started talking with Scott 27 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:04,880 more and more. And he suggested a book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, which next to the big book 28 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:12,640 about Alcoholics Anonymous changed my life more than anything to date. And then we started working 29 00:03:12,640 --> 00:03:19,200 the 12 steps together and have become really good friends. And he's been a great mentor and 30 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:28,800 example. And you've just helped me walk through a lot of challenges, making my way back into the 31 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:38,080 church, which was a journey. And just how to navigate religion, recovery, and family. 32 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,360 Nick, I'm going to stop you. You said walk my way back into the church. You didn't do that at all. 33 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:49,520 Nick, you walked into a completely different experience than what you had envisioned prior 34 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:53,520 to what we had done. So you were experiencing something completely new. 35 00:03:53,520 --> 00:03:54,640 Nick, it was brand new. 36 00:03:54,640 --> 00:03:55,120 Nick, yeah. 37 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:02,480 Nick, and yeah, you know, I feel like my experience over the past, you know, a little over three years 38 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:13,200 has just completely given me a new lens to view the Savior and God and what religion means to me 39 00:04:13,200 --> 00:04:20,080 today versus what it was growing up. You know, I'm from Utah County. I've lived in Utah. I've been 40 00:04:20,080 --> 00:04:27,360 in and around the church my whole life. And honestly, I always resented it. You know, 41 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:34,240 I viewed it as a necessary evil for social family business. You know, it was just one of those 42 00:04:34,240 --> 00:04:39,440 things that, you know, you got to kind of toe the line, but it never made its way into my heart 43 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:47,520 where today, you know, it's a completely different story, you know, with the fact that I have a 44 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:54,160 relationship with a God that I love and, you know, with a Savior and with the Spirit and 45 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:57,680 how religion enhances those things. 46 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:08,560 Nick, I love all of that. When people hear a guy, me, you know, with 25 years sober, 47 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:14,160 talk about things, it's, you know, people tend to think and it's human nature. Well, 48 00:05:14,160 --> 00:05:19,520 that's easy for you. You've got 25 years sober. You know, you have a few years sober, 49 00:05:20,320 --> 00:05:28,960 three going on four. That'll happen. We celebrate Nick's sobriety date on December 31st. 50 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,960 Nick, as you walked into that completely different experience, I think that's what we're 51 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:38,240 going to talk about today. How that changed. Why was it a different experience than the one who 52 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:45,920 you had left? What focused had you made? What capitulations or changes had you made? 53 00:05:45,920 --> 00:05:51,680 What about faces had you made in your attitude, in your decision making and so on? So I think 54 00:05:51,680 --> 00:05:55,040 I'll let Dave, if you've got some questions you want to lead off with. 55 00:05:55,040 --> 00:06:03,760 Well, let's kind of go back to your growing up, Nick, and just kind of share, not in detail, 56 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:10,000 but just generally kind of your experience in the church, in your youth. 57 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:16,400 You know, I grew up in the 80s and 90s in North Orem and there was... 58 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,720 That's North Orem, Utah for us. North Orem, Utah. We have a worldwide audience here, but... 59 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:32,000 Gotcha. Okay. And, you know, my dad was always in different leadership positions in the church. 60 00:06:32,000 --> 00:06:39,840 So I learned from a young age that it was a lot easier to go along the get along and then do what 61 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:48,480 I wanted behind closed door. You know, I found drinking and partying in high school and, you 62 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:53,920 know, that just... That became, you know, one of the most important things to me. 63 00:06:53,920 --> 00:07:01,520 Yeah. And so it was like, all right, you know, I got to put on a face on Sunday and I'm going to do 64 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:06,640 and say whatever I need to. You know, I'd go to seminary, I graduated seminary, I went to church 65 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:14,080 every week and stuff, but it was like, well, I'll just do and say what I need to then when I can, 66 00:07:14,080 --> 00:07:23,200 I'm going to do what I want to do. Yeah. You know, and so it made it so that I viewed religion as 67 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:32,080 just something that I needed to do and I never gained a relationship with the Savior or with God. 68 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:38,560 Yeah. So as you kind of shared your story, Nick, or kind of introduced yourself, 69 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:45,360 it almost sounded like, I'm not saying this is right, but from your perspective, it almost sounded 70 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:55,200 like you felt perhaps that the church or religion was almost a stumbling block to your relationship 71 00:07:55,200 --> 00:08:02,640 with deity. I thought that the church owned that relationship. So if you... Explain that. 72 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:08,160 Explain that. I didn't realize that the relationship with the Savior and with God 73 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:16,160 was something that is just me, regardless of whatever my stance is with religion. 74 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,920 I thought that if I'm not right with the church, then I definitely can't be right with God or the 75 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:30,240 Savior. So I just thought, well, if I go to church and I pay my tithing and I do my callings and I 76 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:39,840 drink when I golf, maybe I can have the best of both worlds. It's just really interesting 77 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:45,040 your perspective of that, Nick. And I just wonder how many more have that same perspective where 78 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:53,840 they think that the church owns a relationship with deity, that it's through the church that we 79 00:08:53,840 --> 00:09:00,640 have a relationship with God. Is that how you thought? Yeah, I did. And so when I wasn't involved 80 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:06,880 with the church, the idea of praying when I needed help, it never crossed my mind. 81 00:09:06,880 --> 00:09:09,600 Because you were out of the church. Because I was out of the church. 82 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:14,080 And if you weren't in the church, you couldn't have a relationship. 83 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,080 Yeah, because they owned the rights to that relationship. 84 00:09:18,080 --> 00:09:23,680 Yes. Okay. Yeah. And as you were growing up, you know, this is a podcast on repentance 85 00:09:23,680 --> 00:09:29,840 and forgiveness, which is really the ultimate relationship with the Savior, receiving His 86 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:35,920 grace and mercy. But as you were growing up, how did you view the process of repentance? Kind of 87 00:09:35,920 --> 00:09:46,640 describe how you saw repentance. We've described it as turning our back on sin and facing the Savior, 88 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:56,240 moving in His direction. How did you see it? I saw it as that I, like me, I had to change the 89 00:09:56,240 --> 00:10:03,520 behavior. I had to make all the changes. So basically, if sin is facing one direction and the Savior 90 00:10:03,520 --> 00:10:10,160 is another direction, and that's a 180 degree turn, I saw repentance is only making a 90 degree 91 00:10:10,160 --> 00:10:15,120 turn. I turn away from sin, but I'm not turned to the Savior. You're not turned to the Savior. Why? 92 00:10:15,120 --> 00:10:23,120 Why? Because I didn't feel that I felt like I had to do so much on my own. So you hadn't earned 93 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:29,200 the right yet to turn that other 90 degrees? Exactly. Or the other 45 degrees, right? Yeah. 94 00:10:29,760 --> 00:10:37,600 Did you ever hear the scripture growing up, Nick? It is by grace that we are saved after all we can 95 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:48,720 do. I had heard that. Was that a little bit of a problem? So I interpreted after all we can do, 96 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:56,560 like what I heard there is after all I can do. And the way that I understand that scripture now, 97 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:05,680 the we is me and the Savior. That's the we. We're yoked together. I love that, Nick. So all that I 98 00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:11,760 can do, the only thing I can do is turn to Him. That's literally all that I can do. I love that. 99 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:18,080 I love your take on that. I think it's really profound and I had never really considered how 100 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,800 you described it. But I think many of our listeners can absolutely relate to this, 101 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:29,040 is that so many, and I did too in my youth. I never thought of it this way, but it absolutely 102 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:37,040 describes my efforts or the way I saw repentance was a 90 degree angle instead of a 180 degree 103 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:43,200 angle. You know, I was going to go save myself and then after I'd saved myself that I'd then 104 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:48,800 I would turn to Jesus. But I had to do my part first, whatever that was. I didn't know what that was. 105 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:57,280 I was going to go do what I could. So I just think that's really a profound analogy, 90 degree 106 00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:02,720 turn. And that's not repentance. In fact, it may take us further away from the Savior. 107 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:09,120 Because if we think that we're our own Savior, that may actually prevent us from hitting a 108 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:14,720 rock bottom or keep us from even feeling that we need a Savior at all, right? 109 00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:20,640 Right. I didn't understand the peace and comfort that comes from turning to the Savior. 110 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:27,600 I felt like it was all about what's right and what's wrong, like black and white. 111 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,040 This good deed goes in the right column. And if I do enough of those, 112 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,880 maybe if I do 10 more of those than one bad, it'll cancel out. Exactly. 113 00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:45,200 Justice, the law of justice. So many are relating to what you're telling us. 114 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:52,560 So tell us kind of how you came to the point and share with us your story of how you came to the 115 00:12:52,560 --> 00:13:05,040 point where you knew you needed a Savior. You know, I always lived in and around the church, 116 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:15,840 you know, but I also was, for me, pills and drinking became a counterfeit God. 117 00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:22,640 They gave me an instant relief, you know. And so I always knew that I shouldn't do this stuff. 118 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:31,840 And so I tried to control it as best I could for a long time. And, you know, I would go in spurts 119 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:38,080 of, you know, doing what I considered better, but the door was always open. And anytime I felt 120 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:47,280 emotional discomfort, take a pill or do something to numb out that feeling, you know, and I didn't 121 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:53,440 have a relationship with myself. I didn't know who I was. And so I tied up my identity and external 122 00:13:53,440 --> 00:14:02,720 things, you know. And in 2018, life got pretty difficult, a business that my family had, you 123 00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:10,880 know, we were closing it down. And I'd always worked in that business. And I tied up how I saw 124 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:18,400 myself in that, my self worth in that. And when that went away, you know, it was kind of like 125 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:27,600 the perfect storm. I had this addiction that I'd been feeding. My foundation, my world, you know, 126 00:14:27,600 --> 00:14:34,000 the rug was pulled out from underneath me. And I became angry. I felt like I was owed something, 127 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:38,320 you know, and looking back on it, it's completely irrational, but it was very real. 128 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:42,560 By who, Nick? By God. By God, that God owed you something. 129 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:46,720 Some, I don't even know who, but he was the easiest one to blame. 130 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:53,440 So you took it out on him. Yeah, I took it out on him. And, you know, life got 131 00:14:55,040 --> 00:15:02,080 really difficult, you know, I ended up losing everything, lost my family. And I got to a point 132 00:15:02,080 --> 00:15:06,800 where I was like, you know what, I'm tired of trying to fight this addiction. And I threw up 133 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:12,960 my hands and I was like, take me wherever you want to take me. And that was really my first 134 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:19,920 experience with surrendering, you know, and it took me to a bottom. So you surrendered to your 135 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:26,800 addiction. I did. Right. And I remember thinking very clearly, like I'm done fighting this, 136 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:33,360 let's see where this goes, you know, and maybe it'll kill me and this will just be done and over. 137 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:38,640 This is a pretty common, this is a pretty common sentiment, Dave, that I hear a lot. I had it to, 138 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:47,280 you know, especially from people who are dealing with drugs and alcohol, as you just mentioned. 139 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:56,560 So Nick, continue, what happened next? So, you know, when I surrendered to that, 140 00:15:57,200 --> 00:16:06,000 it was like I had a bull ring through my nose and I had no choice. Choice was gone. 141 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:13,040 So you concur then with what Elder Oaks said seven or eight, maybe 10 years ago in a priesthood 142 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:19,920 session of general conference where he said addiction robs us of our ability to make a choice. 143 00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:26,880 100%. Yeah. You know, so instead of trying to fight the choice or fight the addiction, 144 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:35,440 I figured if I just embraced it, then it would make it easier, you know, and, you know, I went 145 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:42,640 for about a year and a half down that road of complete surrender. It took me to places that I 146 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:48,640 just, I didn't know existed, you know, black became white, good became bad. Isaiah says in the last 147 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:56,000 days that people call good evil and evil good. Exactly. You know, my view of reality just got so 148 00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:03,040 skewed. I convinced myself that there was no such thing as right or wrong or morality or, 149 00:17:03,040 --> 00:17:10,080 or, you know, that choices didn't matter because it was an idea that I could hold on to and 150 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:17,600 they kind of justified what I was doing and kind of a moral relativism. Yes. Yeah. Exactly. And 151 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:27,760 live your truth. Yep. You do you. And so, you know, I had this experience where I'm out, 152 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:34,720 you know, kind of living on the streets up in Salt Lake and, and I see that I'm going to die. 153 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:40,080 So were you homeless at this point? Yeah. Living on the streets, literally in Salt Lake City? 154 00:17:40,080 --> 00:17:48,480 Yeah. Okay. Yep. And I see that I'm going to die and I, but more importantly than that, 155 00:17:48,480 --> 00:17:54,240 I felt it. Yeah. I was not in my right mind at the time and, and it was a, it was a weird thing. 156 00:17:54,240 --> 00:18:01,360 I kind of saw like these rings around us that I understood as the demands of justice. And basically 157 00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:06,320 it was like every decision you make, there's a consequence for it. Positive, negative, you know, 158 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:11,360 that is kind of irrelevant. Like you take it, the action, you get the result, you know, and, 159 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:16,640 and I just saw that there was a price to be paid for everything. And it's totally different than 160 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:23,200 what you believed in the few years before that. Completely different than anything. It was, 161 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:28,240 how did you see that? Well, how did this knowledge or vision or what, what would you call it came, 162 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:35,040 how did that come to you? It was the middle of the night. I met this place out in West Valley, 163 00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,480 you know, doing a bunch of stuff that, you know, I'm not proud of and the room lit up. 164 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:49,440 And all of a sudden I was like in a different place, you know, at the scene of an accident. 165 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:56,320 And I knew that the accident was like the people were there because of me. Something had happened. 166 00:18:56,320 --> 00:19:02,560 I didn't see what had happened, but I felt it to my core. And it didn't last long. And all of a 167 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:09,600 sudden like I'm back, but I couldn't even move. I was terrified. I was petrified pain there in fear. 168 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:16,720 And I couldn't talk, you know, and I just remember the only thing I could almost get out was like, 169 00:19:16,720 --> 00:19:22,640 I'm scared, you know, and so I, I just remember thinking like, I got to numb this out, whatever 170 00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:29,840 this is, I got to numb it out, but I couldn't get it to go away. And it was this hit in my stomach 171 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:37,680 that something really bad is going to happen. And whatever I just felt there, I don't ever want to 172 00:19:37,680 --> 00:19:44,720 feel it again. Because it was the only way that I can describe it is it was completely void of light. 173 00:19:44,720 --> 00:19:54,640 It was so dark. So I fought it for a week or two. And I was like, I don't know what's going to happen, 174 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:59,760 but I can't keep doing what I'm going to do, what I'm doing. So I, that sounds like a rock bottom. 175 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,680 Is that, is that kind of maybe like a rock bottom for you? I don't know if everybody has to have 176 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:12,240 a rock bottom, but it was the point where I knew you had to change. I had to change. And so this 177 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:19,120 was in May and you needed help to do it. I needed help. Definitely. And so that's really when my 178 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:28,000 journey started to, you know, I sought out help. I didn't get completely sober until December 31st 179 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,840 to 2020. And this was May of 2020. So you went several more months living in this hell. Yeah, 180 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:44,240 so no, I went, I got help. Okay. I'd left. I never went back to that place. Yeah. I left 181 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:51,120 physicality. Yeah. Okay. You know, and I went to a place for like five, six months to get help. 182 00:20:51,120 --> 00:20:57,040 And I was good. And when I left there, I came back down to Utah County. Were you in rehab then? 183 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:01,360 During that time? So I went to this place called the Other Side Academy. Okay. That is like this 184 00:21:01,360 --> 00:21:07,680 prison alternative. Right. It's like a work camp. And it was really good for me to go there. You 185 00:21:07,680 --> 00:21:14,160 know, that program's 30 months. And I stayed for about six, but they got it so that I could work. 186 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:21,520 You know, I was completely sober. But, you know, one of the things that they talk about in 187 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:29,280 AA and in recovery is that drugs and alcohol, that is, that's how we fix the problem that's 188 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:35,840 going on inside of us. Like that isn't the problem. That is one solution of how to treat the problem. 189 00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:42,800 So when I got out of this place and came down here from Salt Lake, I was still stuck with the 190 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:51,120 problem. Like I got a hole in my soul, you know, that can only be filled with God. And after 191 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:57,520 trying to be sober without having a solution, you know, and I started meeting with a bishop 192 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,240 and I was reading and I'm doing all these things that I'd been told and I'm not having 193 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:07,440 so you say you were reading. What were you reading? I was reading, um, believing in Christ. 194 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:12,240 Okay. So you were reading church books. I was reading church books, scriptures to 195 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:19,280 scriptures. Okay. Trying. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. But I couldn't pray. Um, I, 196 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:27,120 when I would try to pray, there was something inside of me that I just, I couldn't do it. 197 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:33,040 I physically couldn't do it. It was a strange sensation, you know, and I, I got to the point 198 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:40,480 where after, you know, I'd been sober like eight months, I was like, if this is what it means, 199 00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:46,720 forget this. Like I'd rather go back to the insanity because I get relief there. Cause right 200 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:54,080 now I've got this ball of anxiety. I feel like I can't breathe. So I went back for about a week 201 00:22:54,080 --> 00:23:02,720 and I couldn't get the relief. You went back to, I went back to using, to use back to the addiction. 202 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:09,280 Yeah. I went back. Addictions, looking for relief, looking for relief, you know, and, and I wasn't 203 00:23:09,280 --> 00:23:14,880 getting the relief there. And so I went and checked into a residential treatment center just to kind 204 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:21,120 of duck my head, you know, cause I'm like, I, I, I feel like I'm going insane. Like I can't 205 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:29,120 live in the addiction and I can't live without it either. Like I am screwed, you know, and, and 206 00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:35,840 I didn't think there was any hope. I was in a completely hopeless place. And, and when I was, 207 00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:41,840 went into that rehab, you know, the only relief I could get was sleeping. It was the only time I 208 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:46,800 could get any peace. And I remember I got to a place where I just, I couldn't sleep anymore. 209 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:53,680 And I rolled over and there's this book, the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous next to my bed. 210 00:23:54,720 --> 00:24:00,720 And I remember looking at it and I had no idea what this book was. And I knew that the Bible, 211 00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:06,880 they called it the good book. So I was like, the big book. So the alcoholics wrote their own Bible. 212 00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:11,680 All right, sweet. This thing's got to be boring. I bet if I read five pages, I'll fall asleep, 213 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:19,360 you know, and, and I started reading from it and it spoke to me. I could relate with everything. 214 00:24:19,360 --> 00:24:26,160 And it was the first time I felt hope in a long, long time. And that was the opening that God needed, 215 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:35,440 you're used to, to start to speak to my heart, you know, and, and that is where my journey 216 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:43,360 with God began. Maybe I can reframe that. Maybe that was not the tool God used, but the tool 217 00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:49,840 Nick used to be able to start hearing God again. Absolutely. Yeah. It was a language that I understood. 218 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:55,440 God was like, all right, this is the perfect place to begin. Like this is where I can, 219 00:24:56,160 --> 00:25:02,880 where I can break through to you, you know, because I became willing to begin to, 220 00:25:02,880 --> 00:25:12,000 to be open to something out there. Yeah. Okay. So talk to us about how did the reconciliation 221 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:18,320 with the church take place? What was the process of that? You know, I started down this, this 222 00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:26,000 path because I felt a little bit of hope reading the big book and, and through working the steps in 223 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:35,440 recovery, you know, it began to the beauty of the steps is that I guess one of the best descriptions 224 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,160 that I've heard of it is like, we come to earth where a perfect magnet and we get dragged through 225 00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:45,840 the junkyard of life. And so we've got all this stuff that like God is there, we're just 226 00:25:45,840 --> 00:25:53,200 blocked off from it. And the steps do a great way of, of breaking down, I guess, the repentance 227 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:59,920 process, but it begins to get you unblocked so that you can get that spirit into your life. 228 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:06,320 So I started working through the steps, you know, and after about six months, and one of the things 229 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:13,120 that I did, you know, my dad had always shown me through his example, like the importance of 230 00:26:13,120 --> 00:26:18,880 daily prayer, reading things of that nature. And so, you know, with this book, I was like, 231 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:23,840 okay, my best effort is I can get up, I can make my bed in this rehab and I can read this book. 232 00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:29,840 And, you know, I mean, that was as good as it was for me. But I committed to do it every day. 233 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:34,560 So I started, you know, when things started to happen. And, and after about 234 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:41,280 six months of, you know, doing the work, reading, writing, praying once I could, 235 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:48,400 I started to begin to see this thing each morning. You know, I would see this big building 236 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,200 that I understood to be my relationship with God, you know, this amazing structure. And it was 237 00:26:55,200 --> 00:27:01,280 this relationship that I was building. Or, or this deity that the big book talked about. Yeah. 238 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:07,120 You know, you didn't really maybe know who God was at that point, but you saw that you had 239 00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:14,320 a God and a deity that was, was assisting you through this. Absolutely. 100%. I didn't, 240 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:21,840 I hadn't really given it a lot of thought or definition. I just knew there was something there. 241 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:28,080 Yeah. So defining it wasn't important to you as much as experiencing it was. Defining it was, 242 00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:36,880 I found that the important thing that was trying to let go of my prejudice of what I thought maybe 243 00:27:36,880 --> 00:27:43,360 it was. Right. And, and, and so because of that definitions can sometimes become a roadblock 244 00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:54,320 to our progress. 100%. You know, uh, yeah, I, I found that one of the biggest hurdles was what I 245 00:27:54,320 --> 00:28:03,360 thought I knew. You know, I mean, yeah. So when I just allowed whatever was out there to kind of 246 00:28:03,360 --> 00:28:09,200 reveal itself to me, instead of trying to put it in a box that I, of what I thought it was, 247 00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:18,480 it, uh, it worked, you know, and, and so I would, I would see this structure, you know, and up to 248 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:22,800 this point, you know, I'm like six months sober and, and I swear I'd never go in another church. 249 00:28:22,800 --> 00:28:30,080 Like I, I, I wanted nothing to do with it. And, uh, so I'm doing these things each morning, praying, 250 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:37,280 reading, writing, and I would see this structure being built, you know, but next to it was an empty 251 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:43,200 field that was like staked out, ready to be built on, you know, and I would just continually see 252 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:51,040 this in my mind's eye in the morning says I'm doing this stuff. And I, I understood it that 253 00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:57,920 that was to be my relationship with Christ. And then I needed to start seeking that, you know, and 254 00:28:57,920 --> 00:29:04,560 when I, and at first I was like, I thought I'd sidestep this and, you know, that this was all 255 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:12,240 good. And so I was like, okay, I will start in on this, you know, and so I started reading conference 256 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:17,600 talks and, and, you know, if I'm honest about what my intentions were, my, I had this thought of, 257 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,000 I'm going to see where they're wrong. Cause like I would know that, you know, I mean, like, that's 258 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:27,920 how where my air is. You're so enlightened at this point. Yeah. You know, but, you know, because I had all 259 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:34,240 these ideas that like the church just had it wrong. And, and so I start reading this stuff. And I'm 260 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,000 like, wow, this stuff's amazing. I gotta love it, you know, but I'm not going back into the church, 261 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:46,240 you know, and so I did that for, and I started reading the Book of Mormon too, you know, and, 262 00:29:46,240 --> 00:29:55,120 and it was weird because I had this wall there, you know, like I knew that there was something 263 00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:02,400 there with Christ, but it, it, there was something blocking me from it. You're prejudice. I mean, 264 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:11,120 what is this wall? Would you say is it your prejudice, your anger, your just prior frustrating 265 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,880 experiences that you've had with the church or what's, what's the wall? You know, I think it was 266 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:24,400 some of those things. And by the way, I think everybody at some point has had a wall and the 267 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:31,840 wall may be different for every person, right? Yeah. I, I feel like all of those things played into 268 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:40,960 it, but the thing that I have felt in my heart walking this path was that God was saying to me, 269 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:47,040 okay, I'm going to make you work for this so that you truly appreciate it because I've given you a 270 00:30:47,040 --> 00:30:51,520 lot of free gifts and you tend to appreciate things that you work for a little bit more, 271 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:59,760 you know, but a lot of it was my prejudice, anger, but the thing is through the seeking, 272 00:31:00,320 --> 00:31:05,360 I felt so much hope. Like I knew it was there and I could feel it getting closer and closer, 273 00:31:05,360 --> 00:31:11,920 but it, it took about nine months before that wall came down, you know, and, and 274 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:21,040 at about six months on this path of seeking, I decided to walk back into a church, okay, 275 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:28,640 you know, and I, I went and got the bishop and just told him my story and was like, you know, 276 00:31:28,640 --> 00:31:34,000 I don't know what needs to be done to get back into good standing, but I feel like I'll never be 277 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:40,320 at peace internally until I make things right with the church, you know, and, and at first I was 278 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:44,160 like, you know what, I'm going to walk through this, I'll get back into good standing with the 279 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:49,680 church. God, don't give me an experience with this so that I can wash my hands of it when I'm done, 280 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,040 so that like, all right, I'm in good standing, I'm good, I did all that, I feel at peace, you know, 281 00:31:55,040 --> 00:32:01,520 and I started down that road and, and after doing that for a few months and meeting with the state 282 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:09,200 president and the bishop regularly, you know, I was disfellowshipped and during that time, you know, 283 00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:16,160 I come to know Scott a lot better and he'd suggested this book, The Divine Gift of Forgiveness, 284 00:32:16,880 --> 00:32:26,240 so I'd started reading this book and it just spoke to, like the words in it, it's so similar to, 285 00:32:26,240 --> 00:32:34,000 to the big book and recovery and the principles in it are the exact same and it just, it spoke to me, 286 00:32:34,000 --> 00:32:40,160 it was a language that I understood, you know, and, and so as I'm reading that book, you know, 287 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,840 it talks about how, you know, there's a line that says, your soul will cry out for Christ 288 00:32:46,880 --> 00:32:53,680 and when I read that, it was the most powerful spiritual experience I've ever had. It just, 289 00:32:53,680 --> 00:33:00,640 it just, that wall came completely down and I had this slideshow where God was saying, 290 00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:08,960 this experience you had, you know, I've seen the field you saw, no, but for that, before that, 291 00:33:09,520 --> 00:33:16,160 oh, oh, the darkness, the darkness, this is when your soul cried out for Christ, you know, 292 00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:23,360 I just kind of used the circumstances of what you were doing to, to show you something 293 00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:28,800 and since this time, you haven't been making choices. I've been guiding you, you know, and, 294 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:34,960 and it was just this overwhelming thing of, you know, I took you here to this place for six months 295 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:39,920 and then I got you to a place where you were completely hopeless and then I gave you the big 296 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:45,600 book, you know, and that allowed this to happen and then, you know, and it was just, systematically, 297 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:50,000 it was like, you think you're making choices, all you're doing is moving your feet. You're just 298 00:33:50,000 --> 00:33:55,680 moving your feet. I'm, I'm, I'm guiding this show. But you were moving your feet. I was moving my feet. 299 00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,800 100%. Which is awesome. You had to do something. Yeah, Nick, and I will say this about Nick, 300 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:07,680 Nick moves his feet. When there's an issue in front of Nick, Nick does not stand idly by waiting 301 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:12,080 for something to happen. He moves his feet. And God must have known you would. I mean, 302 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:17,680 God knows you perfectly right, Nick. And he knew that you would. If you, if you reached that point 303 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:22,720 and you made a turn that you would move your feet. That's what he knew about you. 304 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:27,440 Before I was always concerned with the outcome and shouldering the rest, you know, 305 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:32,720 this idea that I have to go make something happen where today it's like, you know what, 306 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:39,440 God's going to do whatever he's going to do. The path is going to present itself. So, you know, 307 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:46,480 it comes down to like, okay, today, what can I do today? I can get up. I can pray. I can read. 308 00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,400 I can write. And then I can go out and it's like, where can I be of service at work? 309 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,320 Where can I be of service to my kids, my family? Where can I be of service? And I, 310 00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,240 in recovery, who can I help? Where can I be of service? And as I focus on these things, 311 00:35:00,240 --> 00:35:07,520 number one, I'm not thinking about myself, which makes it so that I find a lot more joy too. Like, 312 00:35:08,240 --> 00:35:13,440 I just see God's hand everywhere. Walking back into that with the church, it's like, 313 00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:19,360 okay, the church, I have my own relationship, regardless of where, you know, if I'm active 314 00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:25,760 in the church or not, I have this relationship with God, with the Savior, with the Spirit, 315 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:33,040 and going into it, having, taking that ownership of that relationship, 316 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:39,920 has made it so that the teachings in the church and everything that I've experienced in the church 317 00:35:39,920 --> 00:35:48,800 just enhances it. Yeah. So your redemption, your redemption, let's, let's kind of explore 318 00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:54,720 your redemption here for just a minute, because a lot of people in AA or other programs, right, 319 00:35:54,720 --> 00:36:01,120 can change their behaviors. But that's not repentance. And that's not redemption. It's a 320 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:09,680 change of nature, a change of heart. It's Jesus described as being born again, right? But your 321 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:20,640 redemption conversion has not been necessarily through the church, right? No. Nor should it be. 322 00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:30,080 Nor should it be. So that you see the church as you said, enhancing? Yes. Enhancing that relationship. 323 00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:38,720 But before in your youth and before you saw it as your relationship with God had to be 324 00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:44,880 through the church. Now you see it as the church just enhancing all of that. 325 00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:53,200 The way that I kind of view it growing up is I worship the church. It's like I got in the 326 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:58,000 building and I never made it through the ceiling up to where God and the Savior were. You know, 327 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,280 I, yeah, you were just in the building and they love the building and maybe some point in your youth 328 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:08,800 or whatever you love the building, you believed in prophets and you saw them as so special and 329 00:37:08,800 --> 00:37:15,280 they are and but, but you never got past that. Right. I worship people and I worship the institution, 330 00:37:16,000 --> 00:37:21,840 the social and then it just didn't make sense to me, you know, and I was like, well, I'll just 331 00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:29,840 go along to get along, you know, and, but your view now is, is described your experience with the 332 00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:38,800 church now. So my view now is that I have a relationship with God, with the Savior. It's 333 00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:45,840 completely independent of anything else. It's not contingent on, you know, church attendance or 334 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:55,040 religion and then bringing religion into it, you know, and this is just based off my experience. 335 00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:59,920 You know, it's not an idea that I have. It's just, it's the way that it's happened, unfolded for me. 336 00:37:59,920 --> 00:38:08,000 Everybody's experience is different. Conference talks, Scripture, you know, I, I cannot get enough 337 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:14,000 of the words of the Savior since I had that experience with the book. Now as I, I just, 338 00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:22,080 with which book? The divine gift of forgiveness. Yeah. I, I can't get enough, you know, I read 339 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:30,080 as many books on the Savior as, as I can. I love reading like C.S. Lewis and Emmett Fox and these 340 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:37,520 other Christian writers who bring in a different perspective because I, I just, I love it. Like 341 00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:46,720 it speaks to me, you know, and, and so the church now I, I view it as a vehicle that helps me get 342 00:38:46,720 --> 00:38:56,160 closer to Christ, but it isn't the, I got hung up on the, the vehicle. I was trying to worship the 343 00:38:56,160 --> 00:39:02,720 vehicle and yeah, that's not really getting me anywhere. Yeah. I think, I think that's so important. 344 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:11,120 So redemption, what point can I ask you and there may be not a point or a day or a moment, 345 00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:19,280 but as far as redemption goes, Nick, or as far as forgiveness of your sins and that you were good 346 00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:26,000 with the Savior, describe that process. I mean, we describe repentance, right, as a, as a process, 347 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:33,040 as a foundation, there's a foundation to it, there's conditions, broken heart, contrite spirit, 348 00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:38,720 we talk about the actions of crying out to God, giving our whole soul to God, we try to talk 349 00:39:38,720 --> 00:39:46,240 about the manifestations of all this. Kind of where are you at in your redemption or forgiveness 350 00:39:46,240 --> 00:39:51,520 or receiving the grace and mercy of Christ and you know you're in good standing with Him. 351 00:39:51,520 --> 00:40:01,200 Talk about that process. For me, a lot of that has been through the immense. As I make things right 352 00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:10,160 with others, I feel okay with me. I know I'm good with God. Walking through getting back into good 353 00:40:10,160 --> 00:40:17,040 standing with the church, I felt like the sacrament was a formality, you know, and the 354 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:24,640 stake president would ask me questions of like, you know, when you get back into good standing, 355 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:29,840 like the spirit, you'll, you'll fully have the spirit or I can't remember how he worded it, 356 00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,960 you know, but I just remember thinking like, you know what, like I'm good with God, like I know that. 357 00:40:34,960 --> 00:40:43,440 But when I got, like when I got back into good standing, the stake presidency brought in the 358 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:50,320 sacrament, they blessed it, they gave it to me. And I remember as I went to take it, I kind of had 359 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:55,040 a slideshow that played through some of the craziest things that had happened in the past and 360 00:40:55,920 --> 00:41:02,240 just this feeling inside of like, this is, it's behind me. Like it really is behind me. 361 00:41:02,960 --> 00:41:08,560 It's been a gradual process, you know, and, and I don't believe that it was a gradual process 362 00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:17,360 for the Savior to forgive me because the price was already paid. It was becoming okay with me, 363 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:25,440 you know, and, and for me, a lot of that is to, to, you know, there's a saying in, in AA and 364 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:31,840 they put it on the coins to thine own self be true. I lived the way that I live because I feel in my 365 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:40,080 heart that it's the right thing to do where before I would try to live a certain way because I was 366 00:41:40,880 --> 00:41:45,920 thought it was because I wanted to portray an image right that I'm doing something. 367 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:51,840 Maybe seeking an outcome fit in the culture, fit in the culture and all of that, right? 368 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:59,440 Right. Yeah. Yes, exactly. And but now, but now 369 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:08,480 it's just become a part of who I am. You know, and I mean, I, I never would have dreamed 370 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:16,720 that the thing that I look forward to the most each day is, is my time in the morning, time to get 371 00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:24,640 quiet, you know, and I always, you know, praying, praying was something that needed a complete 372 00:42:24,640 --> 00:42:30,960 overhaul on my part. Like I couldn't be honest when I prayed. You know, I thought that I had to 373 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:38,560 take a certain type of reverence or whatever. And I had to, you know, my journey with that was, 374 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:44,880 I had to take all formality out of it. When I would get mad, I'd swear. And when I'd pray, 375 00:42:44,880 --> 00:42:52,000 you know, because it, I, I just felt like I was so disingenuous before, you know, and I was trying 376 00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:59,920 to gain an authentic relationship with, with God, with the Savior. And, and you know, now it's, 377 00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:06,880 and before I always felt like I was taking the game plan to him. It was like, I'm God's coach. 378 00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:11,360 It's like, all right, big guy, here's what we're going to do today. You're going to help me. 379 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:17,120 But this is what I'm doing. And put in a quarters, you know, I think Elder Christopherson 380 00:43:17,120 --> 00:43:26,320 described it to Nick as a vending machine gospel, put in the money and out comes the candy bar you 381 00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:35,360 choose. Exactly. Yes. That's how you saw it too. It's not that is it. Let me, let me ask about the 382 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:40,800 formality of the sacrament you saw it as a formality. You said, how do you see, how do you 383 00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:48,240 see the sacrament and ordinances and covenants now and kind of the role of covenants in the 384 00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:53,280 church was just, you know, kind of unique to the church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. 385 00:43:53,280 --> 00:44:02,240 How do you see that in your role of the Savior? You know, it's a road that I've been walking 386 00:44:02,240 --> 00:44:10,320 down and I don't fully understand it. But what I have come to see is that like that's 387 00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:18,880 the major difference between our church and every, you know, every other religion. And I found that 388 00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:27,440 the spirit is everywhere. And that was the thing I thought the church owned the Holy Ghost because 389 00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:32,800 of, you know, when you're baptized, you get the gift of the Holy Ghost. So I didn't believe that if 390 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:37,440 you weren't in the church that you could have a spiritual experience, you know, and that's the 391 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:45,520 beauty of AA and some of these other places where I find spirituality is that it's like truth is 392 00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:51,760 truth anywhere, you know, and the difference between the church and some of these other things is 393 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:58,400 that, you know, it brings the covenants into play. You know, I just recently got a temple recommend. 394 00:45:00,160 --> 00:45:08,720 And so, yeah, you know, it's something that I've just been incorporating in as I felt moved to do it. 395 00:45:08,720 --> 00:45:13,760 And though, is this is this the first time you've been to the temple in your life? Or did you, 396 00:45:13,760 --> 00:45:19,760 did you serve a mission? I don't, I didn't serve a mission, but, you know, I'd been to the temple. 397 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:28,640 I'd never enjoyed it, but I'd been. Yeah, you didn't see the symbolism. You 398 00:45:28,640 --> 00:45:34,880 didn't feel the spirit when you were there the first time you went, right? Is that your experience? 399 00:45:34,880 --> 00:45:39,280 That is exactly. You thought it was a ritual and probably a little weird, huh? 400 00:45:39,840 --> 00:45:47,040 It freaked me out. I didn't like it. Yeah. You know, and it's been a journey to get back there 401 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:50,880 because everything in me has been like, don't do it, don't do it. And that's generally how I 402 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,600 know what I need to do is I don't, I mean, I just, I don't want to do anything that's good for me. 403 00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:00,960 I don't know why it's that way, but I've just learned to recognize the feeling when I don't want 404 00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:08,000 to do it. It's probably what I need to do. Yeah. Well, this 90 degree, let me just go back to this 405 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:17,040 one more time. So this former view of your 90 degree, we'll call it the 90 degree angle of repentance 406 00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:24,720 where you move instead of, you move away from sin and you go sideways, which probably lands you, 407 00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:32,240 puts you in no man's land, right? Describe what it means now to when you feel tempted or you, 408 00:46:32,240 --> 00:46:37,440 you sin, we all sin, right? We're all sinners helping sinners. How is it that you turn to the 409 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:46,640 Savior and you move towards Him? And how have you experienced the, my arms are outstretched steel? 410 00:46:47,280 --> 00:46:57,120 How do you experience that on a daily basis? I guess I've come to the acceptance that my job 411 00:46:57,760 --> 00:47:01,600 is to be imperfect, is to make mistakes. That's why I was sent here. 412 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:08,640 And our whole podcast on the fall is that we should thank God for the fall. We should thank 413 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:15,200 God. I give unto men weakness. He even said that, Nick in Ether 1227, I give unto men weakness 414 00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:23,440 that they may be humble. So describe that and what that means to you. So it's a daily reminder 415 00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:29,040 that I need God, the weaknesses that I have. You go to the seven deadly sins, 416 00:47:29,040 --> 00:47:36,880 you know, pride and judgment. Those are like my two, you know, I am so much pride and I judge so 417 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:45,040 harshly, you know, and I see it on a, on a daily basis. But I find, I found that for I always 418 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,160 wanted to attain just enough perfection to the point where I didn't need God anymore. 419 00:47:50,160 --> 00:48:00,240 Like now it's like God gave me the imperfections that I have to remind me on a daily basis that 420 00:48:00,240 --> 00:48:07,760 there's nothing I can do without him. So the turning is acknowledging it, asking for his 421 00:48:07,760 --> 00:48:13,920 guidance to teach me how to be better. All I can do is turn to him. That's, that's all I can do. And 422 00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:23,600 then through that, there's just a change that happens where like I want to be better. Where 423 00:48:23,600 --> 00:48:28,800 before it was like, I want to portray that I'm doing better. But in my heart, I'm holding on to 424 00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:36,000 these things. And I, I couldn't articulate those things until it started to change, you know. And 425 00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:46,720 I guess that the one that I had had to completely surrender was that desire to go back to that 426 00:48:46,720 --> 00:48:53,440 counterfeit God of drugs, alcohol, where he completely removed that the desire is no longer 427 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:59,600 there. Number one, I didn't think that that was possible. And number two, it's like, okay, 428 00:48:59,600 --> 00:49:06,720 if I can become that willing with these other character defects, like he will change me, you 429 00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:11,600 know, or he won't, maybe he wants me to have those things so that I would continue to remember to 430 00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:18,240 turn to him. I don't, you know, I don't know, but accepting the imperfections and not seeing them 431 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:24,720 as a flaw, but as like, that's how it was designed, gets me to a place where it's like, okay, 432 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:32,880 I just, I want to do better today. But if I fall short, you know, you will, when I fall short, 433 00:49:32,880 --> 00:49:39,600 when I fall short, do I owe an apology to somebody, you know, because one of my favorite 434 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:46,240 scriptures is in Matthew five, I think it's 2324 right in there, where it talks about how, like, 435 00:49:46,240 --> 00:49:51,200 if you bring a gift to the altar, and then you remember, you've got to make things right with 436 00:49:51,200 --> 00:49:56,160 somebody else, leave the gift there, go make it right with the other people, then bring it back, 437 00:49:56,160 --> 00:50:02,800 you know, I, and I believe Elder Stevenson talked about this in conference about the bridge with 438 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:09,040 the two towers. Yes, yes. That I can't be like God and love a fellow man. Right. I got to make 439 00:50:09,040 --> 00:50:15,920 things right with the people around me, both, you know, to be at peace with myself and to, 440 00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:24,400 to be right with God. Well, John taught in first John, if we don't, how do you know you love God, 441 00:50:24,400 --> 00:50:28,800 because you love your brother. If you don't love your brother, you don't love God. And if you don't 442 00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:33,360 love God, you don't love your brother. I mean, those those towers are inseparable and one without 443 00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:38,640 the other isn't any good. I want to read the scripture and then maybe conclude with this. 444 00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:47,600 Nick, this is because listening to your story has kind of reminded me of the scripture in Alma 445 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:55,200 chapter 26. Ammon's kind of glorying to the Lord and rehearsing his kind of missionary experiences 446 00:50:55,200 --> 00:51:04,240 and his his conversion and conversion of others. And he says in verse 17 Alma 26 17, 447 00:51:04,240 --> 00:51:12,320 who could have supposed that our God would have been so merciful as to have snatched us 448 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:22,240 from our awful, sinful and polluted state? How do you relate to that scripture? And 449 00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:27,680 how would you describe that happening in your life? You know, I think that is a 450 00:51:27,680 --> 00:51:38,000 perfect description of what I've experienced because I hear a lot of stories of people, 451 00:51:38,000 --> 00:51:46,640 you know, who are like, I prayed and God showed up and I wasn't looking for God. And he came in, 452 00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:52,320 you know, and I felt like he put his arm around me and was like, dude, just quit running. Let me 453 00:51:52,320 --> 00:52:01,040 help you please. You know, and and then, you know, the thing that I can say that I've done is I've 454 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:11,840 sought the guidance each day and he's just moved me, you know, and guided me to things that have 455 00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:17,120 gone completely against what I wanted. But, you know, I've also come to the realization that I've 456 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:23,840 never known what's best for me and rarely do I want what's best for me, you know. And so, 457 00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:30,400 so, you know, just surrendering to like, all right, you point me where you want me to go and I'll go. 458 00:52:32,160 --> 00:52:37,920 That's awesome. Well, we're grateful you've been snatched. I'm grateful that I've been snatched. 459 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:44,880 Grateful that Scott's been snatched. I mean, I love that word in the scriptures. We've all been 460 00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:53,360 snatched. And I really appreciate your story, Nick, and your willingness and humility to share 461 00:52:53,360 --> 00:53:00,480 it with all of us. I hope there's some takeaways here that one of them I think the real powerful 462 00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:07,440 things that you've taught us, Nick, the false way to see repentance is going sideways. I honestly, 463 00:53:07,440 --> 00:53:13,840 so many people see it as either I face sin or I face the Savior. But the truth is, 464 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:21,680 when you go 90 degrees, you face nothing. And you this bleakness and all the false gods that fill 465 00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:29,440 in the blanks for us, this counterfeit God that you've talked about. And then how you now interpret 466 00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:41,440 2 Nephi 25 that we are saved by grace after all we can do is the Savior and you, not just not 467 00:53:41,440 --> 00:53:47,520 all I can do, it's not I, it's we, and you're equally yoked to the Savior. And I really appreciate 468 00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:54,720 your perspective on that. So I hope that all of our listeners can review their lives, think about 469 00:53:54,720 --> 00:54:02,240 maybe when they were snatched or think about what we need to do to put ourselves in a position to be 470 00:54:02,240 --> 00:54:12,160 snatched, where the or the Savior can can work with us, where he can turn us, help us turn towards 471 00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:18,800 him. And all we have to do is move our feet. But I know God knows that all of his children in the 472 00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:26,560 right situation, in the right conditions at the right time, that he will be there for them and 473 00:54:26,560 --> 00:54:32,960 hopefully sooner than later for all of us. Anyway, thanks. Thanks again, Nick for being here. 474 00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:39,520 Thanks for having me. Nick, just as we close, the very last paragraph in the big book of Alcoholics 475 00:54:39,520 --> 00:54:47,200 Anonymous on page 164, it really kind of describes Nick. I've had a very intimate purview of Nick 476 00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:53,360 over the last few years now as we've worked steps together and kind of trudged the happy road to 477 00:54:53,360 --> 00:55:00,320 destiny as we call it in Alcoholics Anonymous. And Nick really embodies this. And the reason for 478 00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:05,360 the embodiment of this is because of the experience that you've just heard and the one that you've 479 00:55:05,360 --> 00:55:09,920 just shared, Nick. We appreciate you being here today. We appreciate you the love that you have 480 00:55:09,920 --> 00:55:15,840 for your Heavenly Father. It shows in everything that you do. And again, I am privileged to be 481 00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:20,640 able to see that in your life on an almost a daily basis. Here's what it says. It says, 482 00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:26,720 abandon yourself to God as you understand God. Admit your faults to Him. Clear away the wreckage 483 00:55:26,720 --> 00:55:32,240 of your past. Give freely of what you find and join us. We shall be with you in the fellowship 484 00:55:32,240 --> 00:55:38,720 of the Spirit. And you will surely meet some of us as you trudge the happy road to destiny. 485 00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:45,280 May God bless you and keep you until then. Nick, I love you. I hope you know that. 486 00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:53,680 I love you too, ma'am. I admire your efforts. The way that you have been honest in your approach 487 00:55:54,320 --> 00:56:00,480 to your relationship with the idea has been exemplary, not just to me, but literally hundreds 488 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:06,240 of others, not just in AA, but other places as well. God loves you. He appreciates what you're 489 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:12,400 doing now and all that you're going to continue to do. Thanks for being with us, everybody. Our 490 00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:19,680 invitation to you would be to look in your lives where maybe we have seen repentance as a 90-degree 491 00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:27,280 angle, or maybe where we have been amiss in some parts of our lives in having that relationship 492 00:56:27,280 --> 00:56:31,440 directly with Him. Thanks for being with us. Thank you, Nick. I look forward to being with you 493 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:46,480 again. Until then, be well.