1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,800 Hey there everybody, welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, Scott 2 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,720 and David Durfey here as always. How's it going, Dave? 3 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:33,400 It's good, Scott. It's good. Grateful. I have been watching the Summer Olympics and 4 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:36,840 oh sweet. My gosh, I've been enjoying that, you know, 5 00:00:36,840 --> 00:00:42,840 just the stories. I love the athleticism and I love the athletics and all of that. But 6 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:50,520 I just, I love the stories of people who overcome adversity, sometimes adversity that we can't 7 00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:54,400 even imagine and rise to the top is so cool to me. 8 00:00:54,400 --> 00:01:00,080 Yeah, so many great human interest stories and stories that applied to all of us. 9 00:01:00,080 --> 00:01:04,600 Even team stories, I know we have several listeners in Canada and you know the Canadian 10 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:10,560 women's rugby team won a bronze medal. They almost beat New Zealand or maybe it was a 11 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:13,840 silver, silver. They almost beat New, they almost, did you see that? 12 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,160 I saw some of that. Yeah, they were amazing. 13 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,480 That was, that was incredible. 14 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,800 And United States medal for the first time. 15 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:21,800 Yeah, that's what, that was the bronze, right? 16 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:22,800 Bronze. 17 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:23,800 The U.S. Yeah. 18 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,520 And the girl from Salt Lake City scored the winning. 19 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:27,920 Yeah, not incredible. 20 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:28,920 The score. 21 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:29,920 Yeah. 22 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:31,320 What do they call it? They don't call it that. 23 00:01:31,320 --> 00:01:33,920 They call it a try or something, don't they? 24 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:34,920 I don't know. 25 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:35,920 I don't either. 26 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:37,600 Anyway, that was so fun. 27 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:39,720 Yeah, it's just, it's just amazing. 28 00:01:39,720 --> 00:01:40,720 Yeah. 29 00:01:40,720 --> 00:01:45,960 I watched the U.S. guy on the pommel horse yesterday. That was incredible to help win 30 00:01:45,960 --> 00:01:46,960 the team. 31 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:48,960 Yeah, first time in 16 years. 32 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:49,960 In so way. 33 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:50,960 Team medal. 34 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:51,960 Anyway. 35 00:01:51,960 --> 00:01:57,560 And, and I'm the real reason I'm grateful is because my sweetheart who suffered a heart 36 00:01:57,560 --> 00:02:05,360 attack and miraculously is going to recover and kind of set us back a little bit because 37 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,400 we're really trying to go on a mission. 38 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:17,600 I was telling you earlier that I kind of have a new term in my gospel lingo, which is annoying 39 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,040 blessings. 40 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:26,720 You know, it's such a, it's such a blessing that she, that we were able to find this out 41 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:32,240 that she had, she's had that three, she'll have to have three stents put in her heart. 42 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:36,420 She's already had one which saved her life. 43 00:02:36,420 --> 00:02:42,000 You know, we're trying to go in October and you know, maybe we'll go November, December, 44 00:02:42,000 --> 00:02:48,120 January, but it's just interesting, Scott, how in our lives we have a plan and that's 45 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:49,120 a good plan. 46 00:02:49,120 --> 00:02:56,560 It's, you know, though, though it's a righteous desire to go on a mission and, and we, we 47 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,120 kind of had our own timetable and all of that. 48 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:06,320 Then I had, I had a little heart issue and had a stent put my heart and had to go through 49 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:13,760 cardiac rehab and pass a stress test, which I did just a week and a half ago. 50 00:03:13,760 --> 00:03:20,560 And then it was like four days after I passed the stress test, which was the final hurdle 51 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:28,160 or, or a rung on the ladder we had to climb in order to go on a mission. 52 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:29,440 And then she has a heart attack. 53 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,240 Now she's going to have to go through cardiac rehab. 54 00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:36,400 We'll have to pass the stress test where we can submit our papers. 55 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:41,200 It's just so annoying that this keeps happening. 56 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,960 And yet such a blessing because what if we would have been in Africa, which is kind of 57 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,160 where we were hoping to go. 58 00:03:49,160 --> 00:03:53,560 And what if we would have been there and then have these, had these issues. 59 00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:58,400 So you know, I know God could have healed my heart, could have healed and fixed Chris's 60 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:05,120 heart, but in the, we were, we live in a world of afflictions and not just a natural man, 61 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,640 hellish world we live in, but the natural causes that we all experiences. 62 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:17,080 You know, God will let it run its course and yet miraculously at the same time protect 63 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:18,360 us. 64 00:04:18,360 --> 00:04:25,280 And all these things you pointed out, elder conch conference talk recently, all these 65 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,200 things will work together for a good. 66 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:31,080 It's just not always to our convenience. 67 00:04:31,080 --> 00:04:32,080 Yeah. 68 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,080 That's true. 69 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:34,080 Yeah. 70 00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:39,960 We, you know, we pray that our, our will and will be aligned with his and then we hang 71 00:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,920 on because you know, sometimes it's not exactly the way we would. 72 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:45,840 I loved elder gongs talk. 73 00:04:45,840 --> 00:04:49,960 This was from, I'm going to just share a part of it when Dave brought this up to me this 74 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:50,960 morning. 75 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,400 We had talked about this talk in elders quorum this past Sunday. 76 00:04:55,400 --> 00:04:59,600 And it was a great lesson that was given to us. 77 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:05,160 But anyway, this is his talk April 6 of 2004. 78 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:06,160 And 2024. 79 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:07,160 Yeah. 80 00:05:07,160 --> 00:05:08,160 2024. 81 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:09,160 Okay. 82 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:13,680 A Chinese story begins with the man, a man's son finds a beautiful horse. 83 00:05:13,680 --> 00:05:17,880 How fortunate the neighbors say we'll see says the man. 84 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:20,880 Then the sun falls off the horse and is permanently injured. 85 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:25,360 How unfortunate the neighbors say, well, we'll see says the man. 86 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:31,320 A conscripting army comes, but doesn't take the injured son. 87 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:35,440 How fortunate the neighbors say, well, we'll see says the man. 88 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,600 And then he goes on the fickle world often feels tempest tossed uncertain, sometimes 89 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,360 fortunate and too often unfortunate. 90 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:47,040 Yet in this world of tribulation, we know that all things will work together for the 91 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,240 good of them that love God. 92 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:55,200 Indeed as we walk up rightly and remember our covenants, all things shall work together 93 00:05:55,200 --> 00:05:56,360 for your good. 94 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:57,880 All things for our good. 95 00:05:57,880 --> 00:05:58,880 Yeah. 96 00:05:58,880 --> 00:05:59,880 Yeah. 97 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:03,040 If we make and keep covenants and if we're faithful. 98 00:06:03,040 --> 00:06:09,240 So anyway, Scott, I, annoying blessings is kind of just a new term and a new way I have 99 00:06:09,240 --> 00:06:14,080 to look on some of these events in Christianized life. 100 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:15,840 But I'm just, I'm really grateful. 101 00:06:15,840 --> 00:06:23,120 So, so, you know, again, I've said this over and over again throughout these podcasts is 102 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:27,720 that I know that you can have rejoicing in sorrow. 103 00:06:27,720 --> 00:06:32,960 That's that's really from Paul's second Corinthians chapter six. 104 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:42,280 You can have rejoicings in sorrow and you can have peace in great affliction. 105 00:06:42,280 --> 00:06:49,600 And I've felt that again this last week when Chris had a heart attack and and we're just 106 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:57,040 so blessed that I mean she could have been totally different outcome and I know God preserved 107 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:04,200 her life and you know, didn't stop the heart attack. 108 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:10,760 And if it would have not worked out the way it did and she would have gone on a different 109 00:07:10,760 --> 00:07:16,480 kind of mission to a different place, we call the spirit world. 110 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:24,080 You know, Scott, you have to have the faith that the that God is in control and that that 111 00:07:24,080 --> 00:07:29,000 all things if we keep our covenants do work out for our good. 112 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,520 And even if that happened to this horse bull as it would have been, it was sad and tragic 113 00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:36,480 as it would have been for me and my family. 114 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:42,440 You know, there would have been blessings in that too. 115 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:44,280 There would have been good come out of that too. 116 00:07:44,280 --> 00:07:46,600 And there would have been a purpose in that. 117 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:52,440 I mean, if you really have faith in God and that he's in control, then you have to believe 118 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:58,800 that there's a purpose in all those things that happen to the righteous who are keeping 119 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,360 their covenants. 120 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:05,720 You know, it was President Joseph Fielding Smith who I did some research on this years 121 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:13,920 ago and several of the prophets have quoted President Joseph Fielding Smith who said, 122 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:22,720 no righteous man woman or child will ever die before their time. 123 00:08:22,720 --> 00:08:31,640 President Kimball said that no one would die prematurely if they were righteous, which 124 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:37,040 maybe maybe and I have no doubt that includes people of all faiths and all religions. 125 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:45,880 I don't think righteousness is something our church has some sort of a monopoly on all 126 00:08:45,880 --> 00:08:48,160 good people of the earth. 127 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:56,320 There is purpose in even the bad things that happen to good people and the atonement of 128 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:58,840 Jesus Christ consecrates all of it. 129 00:08:58,840 --> 00:09:02,720 The atonement of Jesus Christ compensates for all of it. 130 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:15,000 The atonement of Jesus Christ gives us hope in darkness and gives us a great purpose in 131 00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:23,600 our lives even though we don't maybe always understand the reasons for bad things in this 132 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:24,600 life. 133 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:31,680 But anyway, so I'm just reflective on all that and really grateful. 134 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:34,760 When things like that happen it does cause pause, doesn't it? 135 00:09:34,760 --> 00:09:37,480 It causes you to just kind of step back and remember. 136 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,200 Knocks the wind out of you a little bit. 137 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:40,200 Yeah, maybe. 138 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:46,160 But you know, maybe it's not a complete capitulation of where we've been and you know, a change 139 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,680 you know, for some it is. 140 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:48,680 I know that. 141 00:09:48,680 --> 00:09:54,320 But I think for all of us that these those little things can be a blessing too. 142 00:09:54,320 --> 00:10:00,400 You know, that's one of the blessings that can come from that is a deeper great gratitude 143 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:04,320 you know, for our covenants and for the purpose of life. 144 00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:05,320 Right. 145 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:10,240 So many examples of church history of annoying blessings. 146 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:13,160 You know, Joseph Smith in Liberty Jail. 147 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:19,280 That was such a blessing for him to be kind of have that hardship because of the revelations 148 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:24,640 that came out of it and that the training and experience bring him young and the 12 had 149 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,360 without Joseph Smith for for those four or five months. 150 00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:34,720 And you know, there's just so many examples of that throughout the history of the church 151 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:45,640 and and every person in the church, you know, who has lived a life of trying of striving 152 00:10:45,640 --> 00:10:48,120 to keep the commandments. 153 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:54,800 There every individual has those experiences where you know, things happen and you go, 154 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:55,800 what's up with that? 155 00:10:55,800 --> 00:11:02,680 I am striving trying to keep all the commandments and these things happen to me. 156 00:11:02,680 --> 00:11:08,920 But Scott, if really if you if you have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, you understand the 157 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:15,560 power redemption in his atonement, there's purpose in it and all these things shall work 158 00:11:15,560 --> 00:11:18,320 together for our good. 159 00:11:18,320 --> 00:11:23,520 Not just because it gives us experience, but it literally there there will be. 160 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,280 I love that story. 161 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,360 It will turn out to be fortunate. 162 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,400 Anyway, yeah. 163 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:36,920 Well, we had a great we just last week when we weren't able to record. 164 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,400 I replayed Jorian Mandy's. 165 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:40,400 Yeah, yeah. 166 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:45,320 So I was I wasn't here because I was in the hospital last week. 167 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:46,640 What a great example to. 168 00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:47,640 Yeah, yeah. 169 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,160 Of this very thing, you know, and so much of his choice. 170 00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:55,120 And I think that this kind of really leads into Dave, I think the topic that we wanted 171 00:11:55,120 --> 00:12:01,080 to cover today, which is choosing to stay, choosing to have that relationship, not letting 172 00:12:01,080 --> 00:12:05,620 those kinds of things be the reason we leave. 173 00:12:05,620 --> 00:12:06,620 We see challenges. 174 00:12:06,620 --> 00:12:11,920 I see this all the time in recovery, both with members of the church and not members 175 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,040 of the church, you know, that they get a challenge. 176 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,040 Things are going OK. 177 00:12:15,040 --> 00:12:17,240 You know, they seem to be we're leveling out. 178 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:23,840 We seem to be putting much of our problems in the past or behind us where we can check 179 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:27,440 on them through our rear view mirror, lest we forget them. 180 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:29,960 We forget them sometimes and we go right back. 181 00:12:29,960 --> 00:12:36,840 But but but even that, even then, sometimes, you know, it's just difficult when we get 182 00:12:36,840 --> 00:12:44,560 a big roadblock or something that challenge a trial, we fall off our horse, so to speak. 183 00:12:44,560 --> 00:12:51,400 And we could just see that as a challenge that's insurmountable and sometimes some that 184 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:56,520 we love choose to leave to go away. 185 00:12:56,520 --> 00:13:04,440 Well, I've always loved Brigham Young's quote on living the gospel in the dark, you know, 186 00:13:04,440 --> 00:13:09,480 when when when bad things happen and you're trying to keep the commandments, it's it's 187 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:16,440 amazing how many people I've witnessed in my long old life. 188 00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,720 It's amazing how many people just fall away. 189 00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:27,080 Because their expectations weren't met in the church out of the church or individuals 190 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:33,560 within their family leave the church and how that shakes them to the core and they think, 191 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:36,720 well, if they leave the church, there must be something wrong. 192 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:45,120 So they end up leaving the church or or I'm known of of parents and I'm not I'm not being 193 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:46,120 critical here. 194 00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:48,920 I'm just just making observations. 195 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,640 I'm known of parents who have had a gay child. 196 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:53,640 Right. 197 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,800 And they leave the church because they feel like the church if they're not going to support 198 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,440 my child if they're not going to agree with their lifestyle or they're not going to agree 199 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:08,120 with how I want to live or how somebody in my family wants to live, then they leave that 200 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:12,320 they feel like they have to leave the church to support their child. 201 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,440 I'm confused by that. 202 00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:22,960 You know, I have a gay child and I am so grateful, you know, for him and and for his life and 203 00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,160 for what he's taught me and what I've learned about the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 204 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:37,000 I'm so grateful for what's been revealed about the about the law quote, the law of marriage. 205 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:39,200 And I understand all of that. 206 00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:42,680 And why would I leave? 207 00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:43,680 Why would I leave? 208 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:51,200 And and it's it's kind of like we were reading in John chapter six, you know, when when Jesus 209 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:57,840 gives the sermon of the bread of life and I mean, he's kind of really given it to the 210 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:03,480 people of of a Galilee telling them that he is the bread of life. 211 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:09,520 He's really telling them that he's the Messiah and even his apostles say, wow, this is kind 212 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:17,320 of a hard saying, you know, Jesus is really, really kind of given it to us and and Jesus 213 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:28,160 declaring himself to be the Redeemer and Savior and he can perceive their thoughts and he 214 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:30,040 asked them, will you go away? 215 00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,560 Is that what verses are that? 216 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:34,520 Yeah, I'm going to read it actually in John chapter six. 217 00:15:34,520 --> 00:15:37,680 Yeah, this is in verse I'm going to start in 66. 218 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:42,720 And from that time, many of his disciples went back and walked no more with him. 219 00:15:42,720 --> 00:15:43,920 Yeah. 220 00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:49,200 Because of the hardness because of the message was difficult for them to receive it and and 221 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:50,200 it was an indictment. 222 00:15:50,200 --> 00:15:54,080 Honestly, it was an indictment on their hearts, right? 223 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:57,400 And from that time, many of the disciples went back and walked no more with him. 224 00:15:57,400 --> 00:16:02,080 And then in 66 and Jesus said to the 12, will you go away also? 225 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:03,600 Will you also go away? 226 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:10,200 And then Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to him, to whom shall we go? 227 00:16:10,200 --> 00:16:13,400 Thou hast the words of eternal life. 228 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:15,400 In other words, where are we going to go? 229 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:16,400 Jesus? 230 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,400 Yeah, you're the way, the truth in the life. 231 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:20,520 I know. 232 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:21,840 I. 233 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:22,840 Where are we going to go? 234 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:24,520 Where can I get closer to Jesus? 235 00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:25,520 Right. 236 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:27,040 Then then right here. 237 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:30,160 I mean, and this is what it comes down to, Scott. 238 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:40,720 I mean, so many parents, so many leaders of the church are are focused on helping individuals 239 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:44,280 within their stewardship to gain a testimony. 240 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:48,320 But what we should really be focused on, and that's important. 241 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:49,320 Testimonies important. 242 00:16:49,320 --> 00:16:53,120 But what we should really focus on is conversion. 243 00:16:53,120 --> 00:17:01,000 What are we doing to help individuals to be not just have a testimony, but to become converted 244 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,640 unto the Lord? 245 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:09,240 You know, this is the, I love that phrase converted unto Lord, which I think is like 246 00:17:09,240 --> 00:17:16,880 five or six times in the Alma 23 24 chapters describing the anti Nephi Lehi's and their 247 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:24,840 conversion that they they had come to the knowledge of the truth because of the word 248 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,080 of Ammon, the teachings and testimony of Ammon. 249 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:29,720 That's Alma 23. 250 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:35,040 What verse got sick and assures the Lord live us so sure as many as believed or as many 251 00:17:35,040 --> 00:17:37,600 as were brought to the knowledge of the truth. 252 00:17:37,600 --> 00:17:40,000 So that's a testimony. 253 00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:45,240 We need to do everything we can to help ourselves and others to believe and come to the knowledge 254 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:46,240 of the truth. 255 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,360 And that's not enough. 256 00:17:48,360 --> 00:17:51,880 And they got theirs through the preaching of Ammon and his brethren. 257 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:52,880 Right. 258 00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:55,600 According to the word and according to the spirit of revelation. 259 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,520 So their testimony was given to them because of the word and through the spirit of revelation. 260 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:00,520 Right. 261 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:03,200 No, no, can't get a testimony unless you've had a witness of the Holy Ghost. 262 00:18:03,200 --> 00:18:04,200 Right. 263 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:05,200 And that's all critical. 264 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:09,400 The spirit of revelation and of prophecy and the power of God. 265 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:11,440 The power of God. 266 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:14,640 That's what's required that leads to conversion. 267 00:18:14,640 --> 00:18:16,560 And how do we sometimes see the power of God? 268 00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:20,800 Well here it was through working miracles in them. 269 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:21,800 Yeah. 270 00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,840 So a testimony, I would put this like in a formula. 271 00:18:26,840 --> 00:18:35,040 Testimony or knowledge of truth plus miracles or the power of God in our lives. 272 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,480 The souls see read the rest of that verse. 273 00:18:38,480 --> 00:18:43,520 Yeah, I say unto you as the Lord liveth as many of the Lamanites as believed in their 274 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:50,760 preaching and were converted unto the Lord never did fall away. 275 00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,840 That's what we got to focus on. 276 00:18:53,840 --> 00:18:56,360 Converted unto the Lord. 277 00:18:56,360 --> 00:19:03,240 And in order to do that, we need a testimony, which is a foundation of conversion according 278 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:08,720 to Elder Bednar, but converted unto the Lord requires miracles, the power of God in our 279 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:14,520 life having in other words, and I'm not talking about anything grand here. 280 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:19,680 Really Scott, I'm talking about the miracle of forgiveness, the miracle of repentance, 281 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:25,680 the miracle of seeing the hand of God in your life, the miracle of all of the gifts 282 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:32,240 that God has given us in receiving, receiving, recognizing and responding to those miracles 283 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:38,880 in positive ways leads us to be converted unto the Lord. 284 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:45,320 That's what we have to help ourselves and others with is to see the miracles in our 285 00:19:45,320 --> 00:19:54,960 life really to be more aware of those to look for those to to try to try to bring those 286 00:19:54,960 --> 00:19:57,040 about in our life. 287 00:19:57,040 --> 00:20:02,240 You know, it requires some work to that they're not just going to happen. 288 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:07,200 It requires some effort on our part and some faith on our part reading scriptures and 289 00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,680 saying prayers and doing our dailies result. 290 00:20:11,680 --> 00:20:14,760 I know in daily miracles. 291 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:15,760 Yeah. 292 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:17,000 And that's the point. 293 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,800 You know, these these little daily miracles and in the really not little, you know, sometimes 294 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:27,720 we think of big miracles, little miracles, big miracles, raising Lazarus from the dead, 295 00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:29,480 little miracles. 296 00:20:29,480 --> 00:20:32,880 Scott was able to get up this morning and be functional. 297 00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:36,760 I mean, you know, or whatever, you know, but from one extreme to the other. 298 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:40,520 But all miracles come from the power of God, Dave. 299 00:20:40,520 --> 00:20:45,080 And big little in between miracles, they're all because of the power of God. 300 00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:52,720 And so the as soon as we become able to begin to recognize even the smallest miracles, even 301 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:58,120 the smallest miracles, and maybe more importantly, those small miracles in our lives, then we 302 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:02,360 begin to recognize and see the power of God in our lives. 303 00:21:02,360 --> 00:21:08,040 Once we've done that, once we've done that because our testimony is intact already, once 304 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:12,080 we've done that according to your formula or the formula from the scripture here, once 305 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:15,960 we have done that, then we are converted to the Lord. 306 00:21:15,960 --> 00:21:17,120 We're changed. 307 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,800 We are no longer the same person. 308 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:24,360 We have become changed or converted to the Lord. 309 00:21:24,360 --> 00:21:30,080 And not just in our behaviors and not just in our life, but really truly in our hearts. 310 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:34,280 Especially in our hearts and minds where we're changed. 311 00:21:34,280 --> 00:21:42,040 That's what we need to focus on is a change of heart, a newness of life to be born and 312 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:47,320 again, daily over and over and over again through repentance. 313 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,560 And we just finished the whole course. 314 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:55,440 Scott on on repentance, what it is and what it's not. 315 00:21:55,440 --> 00:22:04,760 And repentance, I think, and being forgiven of sin, being born again is what conversion 316 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,720 is really all about. 317 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:13,200 Now one must have a testimony or and some something of a desire as described by Nephi 318 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:15,560 and 1st Nephi 2 16. 319 00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:22,000 This is what sets him apart from his brothers, laymen, and Lemuel is amazing testimony. 320 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,680 First Nephi 2 verse 16. 321 00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:31,200 I love this Nephi kind of just speaking here and it really tells us, you know, why Nephi 322 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,640 is Nephi and laymen and Lemuel or who they are. 323 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:41,080 When it came to pass that I Nephi being exceedingly young, nevertheless being large in stature 324 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:46,760 and also having great desires to know the mysteries of God, wherefore I did cry unto 325 00:22:46,760 --> 00:22:52,280 the Lord and behold he did visit me and soften my heart. 326 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:57,520 And I did believe all the words which had been spoken by my father, wherefore I did not 327 00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:01,720 rebel against him like unto my brothers. 328 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:08,920 So he had a desire to have a testimony, to know, to have knowledge, to know the mysteries. 329 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:16,280 Then it says because he prayed, exercised his faith and prayed that he had an experience. 330 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:17,280 He had a miracle. 331 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,440 Yeah, but this is more than praying. 332 00:23:19,440 --> 00:23:22,800 Oh yeah, this is this is definitely more than praying. 333 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,200 And I think that's important for us to point that out, right? 334 00:23:26,200 --> 00:23:33,520 And his prayer is described here as I did cry unto the Lord. 335 00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:39,920 And the reason for that is because he needed to match that desire to know the Lord with 336 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,160 his desire to know the Lord, right? 337 00:23:42,160 --> 00:23:49,200 Where he says, and also having great desires to know the mysteries of God. 338 00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,120 He didn't just say I was wondering about the mysteries of God or from time to time these 339 00:23:53,120 --> 00:23:57,600 things have popped into my head or, you know, every Wednesday night when I went to Institute 340 00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:02,560 class we talk about these things or every every Sunday in Sunday school we know that's 341 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:09,280 not what he says, you know, he had a great desire, having great desires to know the mysteries 342 00:24:09,280 --> 00:24:10,280 of God. 343 00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:13,680 And I you know, I know where those desires come from. 344 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:16,720 Yeah, they come from a grateful heart. 345 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,720 Gratitude is the beginning of desire. 346 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,120 I know that. 347 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:28,640 And somehow Scott, he had gratitude for his father gratitude even for it. 348 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:32,240 You know, I mean, just think about this annoying blessings. 349 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:33,240 Right. 350 00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:34,240 Yeah. 351 00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:39,240 Think about the annoying blessing of of taking your family Lehi having to leave everything 352 00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:42,640 behind and go out into the wilderness. 353 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:48,920 And everything behind for them was not a small gold and silver and all that. 354 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,920 Right. 355 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:55,160 They kept it all behind so that they could escape and have time to get away. 356 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:59,280 And it saved their their lives and the whole history. 357 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:06,160 The Book of Mormon is based upon this, this one journey and this one family and talk about 358 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:07,240 annoying blessing. 359 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:11,600 And yet how did how did Nephi see that? 360 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:16,160 He saw that being filled with gratitude for that. 361 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:22,640 There he felt nothing but gratitude believed in the words of his father and trusted in 362 00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:23,640 the Lord. 363 00:25:23,640 --> 00:25:30,280 Lame and Lemuel on the other hand, how did they see this annoyance as an annoyance? 364 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,680 They didn't see it as a blessing. 365 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:39,440 You know, they saw this as a as a great curse to be able to have to leave their home. 366 00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,680 What an inconvenience. 367 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:49,600 And to go out and they then they never did really see this as being a blessing. 368 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:58,280 So I know that Nephi's great quote great desires came about because of his gratitude. 369 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:03,960 And I think gratitude is such an important part of testimony conversion and ultimately 370 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,440 redemption in our eternal life. 371 00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:16,440 So if we can help our children, grandchildren, those who we love to feel gratitude in their 372 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:24,280 life to understand the atonement of Jesus Christ and to feel a need for him to feel gratitude 373 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:32,120 for what he has done for us to understand his suffering and all that he has has offered 374 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:35,920 us and all the gifts he offers us daily. 375 00:26:35,920 --> 00:26:43,560 And we if we could just participate in that and feel that daily Scott that goes way beyond 376 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:49,640 just having a testimony of the restoration or testimony of the truth or even it's one 377 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:51,000 thing right. 378 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,760 It's one thing to know that Jesus lives. 379 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,280 It's another thing to know Jesus. 380 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:59,680 Yeah completely different. 381 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:05,520 And we have to come to know Jesus which is being converted unto him where he's part of 382 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,800 our lives where we know that he's he walks with us and we walk with him. 383 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:17,080 You know the great ultimate third requirement to have the faith of power. 384 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:22,840 And we did a whole podcast on faith so you might want to go back and listen to the to 385 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,040 you know faith. 386 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:26,840 You can never talk about it as though you have or you don't. 387 00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:31,000 You always need to remember faith is in degrees. 388 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:33,360 So the question is not whether you have it. 389 00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:40,360 The question is to what level do you have it and where is your on whom or where is your 390 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:42,480 faith focused. 391 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:51,200 Well the ultimate requirement of the faith of power is to this from the lecture on faith 392 00:27:51,200 --> 00:28:02,440 is to know that the life the course of life that you are pursuing is pleasing to God. 393 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:07,680 That takes more than knowledge more than testimony. 394 00:28:07,680 --> 00:28:17,200 That takes a giving our will to God aligning our will to God and seeking to carry his will 395 00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:21,360 out in our lives and others. 396 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:30,960 That's conversion and when one reaches that point Scott I know it's I know it's a process. 397 00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:35,400 I know it's not a one and done sort of deal. 398 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:43,360 But when one is really converted to the Lord as described in in Alma 23 they never did 399 00:28:43,360 --> 00:28:49,240 or nor they never will fall away. 400 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:57,600 That's I just the word never is really powerful to me in that in verse six of Alma 23 they 401 00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:07,840 never did fall away and in my scriptures I just wrote W O W exclamation mark because 402 00:29:07,840 --> 00:29:12,920 I think that's amazing and that's because they were converted unto the Lord. 403 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,720 So what else can we do to become converted unto the Lord. 404 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,920 You know I know a few people in my past I know a few people in my life and I know I've 405 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:27,720 known them quite well and a couple of them are no longer here. 406 00:29:27,720 --> 00:29:32,480 One of them is well two of them both of my grandfathers your dad and my grandpa Fagan 407 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:33,800 my mom's dad. 408 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:38,800 I knew those guys and I you know when I when I think of my grandpa Fagan for example I 409 00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:45,040 know how he would react I know how he would talk I know how he smelled like old spice 410 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:48,160 after shave all the time right. 411 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:54,880 I know the scriptures that grandpa Durfee would commit or recite from memory in any 412 00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,480 given situation my dad's kind of carried on that tradition as well. 413 00:29:59,480 --> 00:30:04,640 And so I know these men the reason and how I knew them is because Dave I spent time with 414 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,640 them. 415 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:12,440 I spent time with them a lot of time with them and it seems like that the more time 416 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:18,480 I spend with somebody the greater my opportunity is to know them to learn of them to know how 417 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,480 they would react in any given situation to know the comforting words that would be thrown 418 00:30:23,480 --> 00:30:27,880 my way in a time of torment or trial. 419 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:33,440 And I know that that's an earthly experience and it's been wonderful but how much more 420 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:40,480 celestial and how much more wonderful is that experience as we come to know him Jesus Christ. 421 00:30:40,480 --> 00:30:45,520 Yeah well that that's that's ultimately what what it means to be converted unto the Lord 422 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,160 for sure Scott. 423 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:55,640 I I love the little formula or the pattern as Elder Bender puts it in the Helman chapter 424 00:30:55,640 --> 00:31:04,240 15 and maybe we can just look at that real quick in Helman 15 7 and 8. 425 00:31:04,240 --> 00:31:10,760 It says and behold you do know of yourselves for you have witnessed it that as many of 426 00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:14,960 them as are brought to the knowledge of the truth. 427 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:22,240 Okay so there there's what formula number one principle number one brought to the knowledge 428 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:32,920 of the truth and to know the wicked and abominable traditions of their fathers or the sins of 429 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,560 their fathers and their own personal sins or the sins of the world that they have adopted 430 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,160 from the traditions of their fathers or the right or the sins of the world. 431 00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:46,200 So there's the second part. 432 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,760 Well and I think so just push pause for a second because I think that's important that's where 433 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:54,840 we get tripped up today you know when we sometimes we can read this and say the traditions of 434 00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:59,560 our fathers what are really seeing the traditions of the world here in this and that's what 435 00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:05,000 we face today you know so much of this stuff on tiktok and instagram and all these other 436 00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:09,960 things that are disparaging and trying to pull people away from the church traditions 437 00:32:09,960 --> 00:32:12,440 of the fathers the sins of the world. 438 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:19,520 Yeah okay and and it really the way I would word this is knowing that we are just sinners 439 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:29,200 help and sinners right that we're sinners sons and daughters of sinners that we're just 440 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:36,040 Adam and Eve's sons and daughters that we live in a hellish world a fallen world equally 441 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:43,640 you don't understand the fall and the need for a redeemer then nothing else works I mean 442 00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,760 you know if you don't need a redeemer then why would I even try to know him right and 443 00:32:48,760 --> 00:32:53,320 I think that's one of the things that sometimes where we fall into a differentiation pattern 444 00:32:53,320 --> 00:33:00,600 too where it's like well I have him they need him you know but but the point here is is 445 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:07,080 none of us need him less than others we all need Jesus and his atonement his redemption 446 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,920 equal every single one of us and that was all part of the plans God I mean God's not 447 00:33:11,920 --> 00:33:18,520 surprised or upset by that no I mean and we're not being punished for that no that's all 448 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:23,480 part of the plan it's all part of the plan that we would see and it's all part of the 449 00:33:23,480 --> 00:33:26,960 plan that the fathers would see and it's all part of the plan that Adam and Eve would 450 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:35,280 partake and transgress and have to leave the guard I mean we shouldn't that's not necessarily 451 00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:43,400 all negative it's such a blessing the plan of redemption is such a blessing that we all 452 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:49,960 sin and to know that we need a redeemer so that's that's the second part is to know that 453 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:59,960 you need a redeemer and to recognize our sinless fallen state our sinful fallen you know and 454 00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:04,880 are led to believe the holy scriptures yay the prophecies of the holy prophets which 455 00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:12,480 are written so there's a third is to know of the scriptures to know of the word the 456 00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:22,480 power of the word as given to us by from God through living prophets the power of the 457 00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:28,880 word which leads them to faith on the Lord so really that's Alma 32 right you plant the 458 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:37,360 seed which is the word I asked who did I ask this I asked somebody Sunday I my little family 459 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:42,600 I was having dinner with and I said what what's the seed and they all said faith and they 460 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:49,360 I said no it's not and my granddaughter started seeing a primary song that said that that the 461 00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:55,200 seed is faith or that faith is the seed I'm not familiar with that primary song but I 462 00:34:55,200 --> 00:35:01,560 said well that's not true so she said well that's why everybody answers that grandpa 463 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,120 that's why everybody says that the seed is faith because because that primary song and 464 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:15,520 I said well in the scriptures in Alma chapter 32 the seed is the word so it's it's the word 465 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:25,960 that is so important in building our testimony or our faith which will grow unto repentance 466 00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:32,920 our faith will grow unto repentance and repent faith and repentance bringeth a change of heart 467 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:39,360 unto them so what brings the change Scott face what now changes conversion change of heart 468 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:47,960 yeah change of heart change of life the change of even our perspective all of that is what 469 00:35:47,960 --> 00:35:55,160 it means to be converted unto the Lord and according to Alma or Helium in 157 faith and 470 00:35:55,160 --> 00:36:03,880 repentance bringeth a change of heart unto them so for me it's pretty simple that being 471 00:36:03,880 --> 00:36:09,640 converted unto the Lord means that we repent and we it's more than just laying down your 472 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:15,280 weapons and burying them it's that you have a complete complete change of heart and you 473 00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:23,800 you're willing to make covenants with God as the Antinipa Lehi's did that's what we should 474 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:31,520 focus on with our families and those who we love is what what needs to happen to lead 475 00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:38,400 to conversion unto the Lord starts with starts with testimony but if that's where it ends 476 00:36:38,400 --> 00:36:44,080 love what Elder Bednar said about that I think that was in October 2012 where he talks about 477 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:51,360 to testimony and conversion and he says a testimony will not be enough if you've only 478 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:57,200 got testimony that is not going to get you through the darkness of these latter days 479 00:36:57,200 --> 00:37:04,520 testimony is not enough and I the Lord knew that even with Peter and the original apostles 480 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:10,920 and and the early church in the New Testament because I love one of my favorite scriptures 481 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:22,000 always been in Luke chapter 22 when when he says you know to Peter when thou art converted 482 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:28,160 strengthen thy brother I mean Peter was walking with the Lord he knew the Lord he he had a 483 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:36,000 testimony of the Lord and yet apparently he hasn't been completely converted unto the 484 00:37:36,000 --> 00:37:44,680 Lord until after the resurrection of Jesus Christ that's because you know he ends up 485 00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:52,360 denying him three times but it's after the resurrection the physical resurrection and 486 00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:58,160 really after he gets the gift of the Holy Ghost he may have had a witness of the Holy 487 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:06,320 Ghost and a testimony of Jesus when Jesus was with him before Jesus's atoning sacrifice 488 00:38:06,320 --> 00:38:14,160 but it was after the atonement of Christ after the resurrection and after Peter and the 489 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,840 church had received the gift of the Holy Ghost when it fell on them fifty days after the 490 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:26,160 resurrection which was the Pentecost that on the day of Pentecost is recorded in in 491 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:36,560 the acts that's when Peter became converted unto the Lord and it's more than just receiving 492 00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:41,880 the Holy Ghost I well I don't know if it is more than that actually I for one to really 493 00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:48,040 receive the Holy Ghost they will walk in the spirit they'll talk in the spirit they'll 494 00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:55,920 live in the spirit and when we do that that's what it means to be converted daily is to 495 00:38:55,920 --> 00:39:02,040 walk and talk and live according to the spirit influence of the Holy Ghost in our life which 496 00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,560 is an amazing gift if you think about it a member of the deity so how do we walk with 497 00:39:06,560 --> 00:39:12,320 Jesus to me is to have the Holy Ghost with us how do we walk with God is to have the 498 00:39:12,320 --> 00:39:18,160 Holy Ghost with us because he is one with God and Jesus as a member of the Godhead 499 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:28,600 and one of the members of deity so if we will receive the Holy Ghost as Peter did then he 500 00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:35,040 becomes converted and I'm sure Peter wasn't perfect or sinless even after that Peter would 501 00:39:35,040 --> 00:39:42,560 have used the principle of faith and repentance and conversion is a daily process but he would 502 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,440 have been intentional and diligent about that. 503 00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,680 So how does this apply in our day? 504 00:39:48,680 --> 00:39:54,960 You know we live in a day when we have so much pull out there there's so much opposition 505 00:39:54,960 --> 00:40:02,320 to our spiritual lives and it's really easy Dave for all of us I think to be distracted 506 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:09,720 and for us to lose not just focus but contact even with those things that can be so important 507 00:40:09,720 --> 00:40:10,720 to us. 508 00:40:10,720 --> 00:40:17,240 I've had an opportunity I know you have probably to a larger degree even than I to just see 509 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:24,560 people and it's been me even in the past times where we just challenged we were challenged 510 00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:31,040 with things in this life and because of our distractions so I'll speak for me because 511 00:40:31,040 --> 00:40:37,920 of my distractions in my life it in the past has been easy for me to not pay attention 512 00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:41,080 to you use the word dailies right? 513 00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:47,600 To not cry out to not be in my scriptures and trying to seek to have that spiritual 514 00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:53,760 witness because when you know when we read that in Helaman chapter 15 when we read about 515 00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:59,880 getting that testimony and the pattern and that pattern isn't a one and done pattern 516 00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:04,640 that's not just something we do once and okay it's accomplished so that's the point you 517 00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:12,200 know that's the thing that we must in order for us to keep our testimonies intact and 518 00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:17,960 probably said that wrong in order for us to maintain a conversion process in our lives 519 00:41:17,960 --> 00:41:23,680 because that's what's important is the conversion but to always be changing because of Jesus 520 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:29,400 Christ we have to do those things that we talked about we it's important for us to be 521 00:41:29,400 --> 00:41:33,880 with him and how do we get to him you know and there's many ways and some of us will 522 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:39,280 choose different ways as some of our favorite ways to do that but you know undoubtedly you 523 00:41:39,280 --> 00:41:43,960 know being in the temple and participating in those covenants that we and remembering 524 00:41:43,960 --> 00:41:50,240 those covenants and learning more about and and becoming stronger in our resolve to live 525 00:41:50,240 --> 00:41:58,080 our covenants we've talked about that in several episodes recently those covenants prayer 526 00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:05,160 attend our church attendance and but but maybe maybe Dave sometimes in my mind the weight 527 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:10,440 because this way we can't really quantify but it's how do we treat others mm-hmm how 528 00:42:10,440 --> 00:42:17,920 am I treating others how am I as a member of Christ's church or as a member of the human 529 00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:24,360 family even as a child of God how am I treating others do I make others feel welcome and do 530 00:42:24,360 --> 00:42:30,240 I allow others to feel I had an experience I've got a daughter my oldest daughter Jessica 531 00:42:30,240 --> 00:42:35,800 she's not she's baptized but she's not active in the church the other day she went to church 532 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:40,080 and she went alone and and she went into a church where people don't know her went to 533 00:42:40,080 --> 00:42:48,920 our to her ward and she felt really alone nobody talked to her she called her mom later 534 00:42:48,920 --> 00:42:53,920 almost in tears I just mom I just was going there hoping to fill the spirit and hoping 535 00:42:53,920 --> 00:43:00,240 to maybe fill a coming home that wasn't necessarily the words that she used and she says and nobody 536 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:05,160 talked to me now this is a kid that's not a recluse this is a kid who's out in front 537 00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:12,200 and very friendly and very gregarious and just and and just felt shunned and and so 538 00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:19,880 I just wonder you know how often am I doing that how often do we as a people for whatever 539 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:24,560 reason when we see differences how are we handling that and I really think that's an 540 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,280 important thing for us also to focus on Dave. 541 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:34,240 Yeah well you're touching kind of now Scott on what are the evidences or the signs of 542 00:43:34,240 --> 00:43:44,480 conversion and Marvin Jay Ashton just a year or two before he died Apostle elder Marvin 543 00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:52,880 Jay Ashton yeah came to Minneapolis in 1993 he asked a question among leadership there 544 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:58,200 and leadership meeting he asked a question what is the what is the greatest evidence 545 00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:04,200 of conversion now that's a tough question because you're trying to you're you're trying to 546 00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:11,920 guess what he's thinking and everybody was giving great answers you know what's the signs 547 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:19,440 or evidence the greatest sign or evidence of conversion and everybody was given these 548 00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:28,440 really great answers and they they were all were evidences and signs of conversion and 549 00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:36,960 this went on for a long time several minutes and everyone was almost exhausted because 550 00:44:36,960 --> 00:44:41,480 he said well that's that's really good yeah that's one of the signs and evidences and 551 00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:48,280 and it went on and on and after he had exhausted everybody's possible answer he said let me 552 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:56,160 just tell you can I just to give you the answer the greatest evidence and sign of conversion 553 00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:07,400 is how you treat others I believe that it was that simple is how you treat others how 554 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:17,760 you see them how you treat them how you serve them that is the greatest evidence of conversion 555 00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:22,000 and I and I know that he was thinking this and this and if he were here he would say 556 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:27,480 that's exactly what I meant but how do we treat others especially those that aren't 557 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:34,480 necessarily like us well you know honestly Scott that scripture in Luke let's just go 558 00:45:34,480 --> 00:45:43,920 back to it for a minute Luke chapter 22 Jesus says to Peter when they are converted what 559 00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:50,920 will you do strengthen your brother and strengthen your brother and now I okay so I agree with 560 00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:56,240 you I just not just in our church you'll strengthen everybody you'll strengthen your brothers 561 00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:02,120 your sisters you'll strengthen those in your faith none of your faith you'll strengthen 562 00:46:02,120 --> 00:46:10,400 everyone you you won't put them down you won't weaken them you won't to chastise I'm 563 00:46:10,400 --> 00:46:15,720 there's a there's a time and a place for chastisement but it should always be done in in love and 564 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:21,000 by the spirit and it's pretty rare and even then even then you'll strengthen them in the 565 00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:25,440 chastisement you'll you'll show them away if you want to really know the chastise pattern 566 00:46:25,440 --> 00:46:31,640 look at the doctrine come to section 95 verse 1 where the Lord really chastises Joseph and 567 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:40,640 Hyrum anyway another time for that so it's it's how you strengthen people even strangers 568 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:49,600 that you meet Scott how can I strengthen them the cashier you know how can then I I bought 569 00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:58,080 my little diet to drink today and this cashier just seemed down and out you know and I I'm 570 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:05,040 not I'm just saying I just felt like I had to say hey I hope you I really hope things 571 00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:09,600 go better for you today and you have a you have a great day today and I mean I just felt 572 00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:16,240 like what can I do to strengthen her I what can we do to strengthen people that is maybe 573 00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:20,520 the greatest evidence and sign of conversion and that that includes even members of our 574 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:25,960 own family and it's so easy Scott in our own families I've been thinking a lot about this 575 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:35,960 lately it is so easy in our own families when they don't meet our expectations that we somehow 576 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:44,520 just natural man that we somehow punish them or we put them down or we chastise them in 577 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:53,800 inappropriate ways or we is give them the silent treatment or we're we're I don't know 578 00:47:53,800 --> 00:48:00,520 where we where we just don't handle it the way the Lord would handle it even in our own 579 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:06,200 families those who we love them up the most how do we treat them and so many times Scott 580 00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:14,040 this breaks my heart but in so many times we treat members of our family less Christian 581 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:22,600 and with less grace and mercy then we treat strangers I don't get that I don't need now 582 00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:28,200 I know that's natural man and I've done it I have done it but when you really think about 583 00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:34,240 it what's up with that why would you treat your son your daughter your your wife your 584 00:48:34,240 --> 00:48:41,120 husband your brother your sister with less grace or with less mercy or with less show 585 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:48,600 of love and kindness what why would you treat them less than a stranger well can I tell you 586 00:48:48,600 --> 00:48:54,680 what was told me where much is given much is expected and we sometimes use these kinds 587 00:48:54,680 --> 00:49:01,520 of things that's inappropriate and it's wrong that you know that doesn't justify but that 588 00:49:01,520 --> 00:49:09,040 is sometimes I think we can adopt that thought process right especially with our own family 589 00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:14,560 and I and I hate that there's just one of the things that really can be it's evil it 590 00:49:14,560 --> 00:49:20,600 can be divisive none of that causes contention which is of the devil it's all of the devil 591 00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:26,560 yeah yeah this is all of the devil so once again the greatest evidence and sign of conversion 592 00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:30,760 the way we treat each other the way we treat each other and that includes members of our 593 00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:37,200 own family and and and we're not nice yeah if we're not kind if we if we don't treat 594 00:49:37,200 --> 00:49:42,520 them out of love and everything that we say and everything that we do really how converted 595 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:47,080 to the Lord are we right I mean everybody should be asking themselves that question right 596 00:49:47,080 --> 00:49:54,600 now how converted to the Lord am I if I can't even treat my own son or daughter or spouse 597 00:49:54,600 --> 00:50:02,320 yeah with love and respect and kindness anyway I hope I hope everyone will just think about 598 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:09,800 that and and and really think about how that applies and I know it applies to me and I can 599 00:50:09,800 --> 00:50:16,440 do better and I have to repent continually and I'm still working on that and I I haven't 600 00:50:16,440 --> 00:50:21,680 perfected it and I'm I'm sure there's people out there a lot better at it than I am but 601 00:50:21,680 --> 00:50:31,320 I just know it's really really important and honestly Scott the way to overcome it is to 602 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:39,560 look unto him in every thought look unto him in every word look unto him in everything 603 00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:47,640 that we do as we've been commanded to do and to have Jesus Christ in the spirit of the 604 00:50:47,640 --> 00:50:55,280 Lord to be with us I mean when we yell when we when we raise our voice when we when we 605 00:50:55,280 --> 00:51:05,160 get mad or angry out of fear or unex or unmet expectations or or when we are disappointed 606 00:51:05,160 --> 00:51:13,840 in it causes us to lose the spirit of the Lord what what are we allowing yeah well you know 607 00:51:13,840 --> 00:51:19,280 everything that you've just described are motivated and propagated by two words pride 608 00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:26,480 and fear yeah and and both of those will come at us and those are tools of the devil that 609 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:38,040 are being unleashed in on prior to now unprecedented ways it's just it's it's ridiculous how we 610 00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:43,840 have all of this coming at us and creating so much pride and fear and we could do an 611 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:49,320 entire we have in fact done an entire podcast episode on that in the past you should go 612 00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:55,280 look that up too but you know when we talk for example you know if I'm going to be up 613 00:51:55,280 --> 00:52:01,000 tight because one of my kids isn't particularly living the way that I think that they should 614 00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:08,160 live what is that about me I'm fearful or I'm prideful and probably both right right 615 00:52:08,160 --> 00:52:12,760 and I agree with what you're saying Scott and it's also just as we read in the human 616 00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:21,440 fifteen right it's because of the false traditions of our fathers or our mothers or our grandparents 617 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:29,640 it's it's so often the way we treat others including members of our own family is often 618 00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:40,760 just a generational carry on same old same old right when are when are we going to break 619 00:52:40,760 --> 00:52:48,040 the cycle yeah when are we going to be an Abrahamic figure and break the cycle and over 620 00:52:48,040 --> 00:52:55,960 and repent and over and forgive the traditions of our fathers not just about repenting of 621 00:52:55,960 --> 00:53:01,800 them but forgiving them right the traditions of our fathers because so much of how we treat 622 00:53:01,800 --> 00:53:12,720 others and how we are socially is often just a an echo or a copy of the way our parent 623 00:53:12,720 --> 00:53:17,940 we saw our parents do it yeah and if we don't if we don't that's part of the pattern of 624 00:53:17,940 --> 00:53:25,560 conversion really is to understand the false traditions of our parents and to repent of 625 00:53:25,560 --> 00:53:31,840 those and forgive those so that we can really move on in our lives and come closer to the 626 00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:37,760 Lord by doing things the way he would do it so the only way we can overcome the false 627 00:53:37,760 --> 00:53:44,640 traditions of our parents God is to say well I love my I love my earthly parents then they're 628 00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:54,000 my celestial eternal parents but my real dad yeah my real father and my spiritual father 629 00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:59,920 who is Jesus Christ so we have a spirit father Elohim or our heavenly father and we have a 630 00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:06,520 spiritual father Jesus Christ and to be converted to the Lord means that we recognize him as 631 00:54:06,520 --> 00:54:16,360 our spiritual father and if we want to be spiritual then we should we should adapt and adopt 632 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:24,280 in our lives according to the way he lived yeah that's that's the key I think and and 633 00:54:24,280 --> 00:54:31,560 how many times do we think about that a day you know am I doing it the way Jesus would 634 00:54:31,560 --> 00:54:37,200 do it I mean that was the great question and they used to have what's what's the initials 635 00:54:37,200 --> 00:54:45,320 or the acronym what would Jesus do ww JD ww JD what would Jesus do the great story that 636 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:50,840 is or taff Benson used to tell so often that was written by I can't remember the author 637 00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:57,800 in the book but the man who who took that on as an experiment that every day he would 638 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:05,640 ask himself what would Jesus do and how it changes life and to it to really a great degree 639 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:12,360 that is that's what conversion is is to ask ourselves that and then try to try to live 640 00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:18,080 that way you talk about traditions of our fathers and just trying to be a little better 641 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,320 and a little better and a little better I have a couple stories to go with that and I 642 00:55:21,320 --> 00:55:26,680 won't share them all but but so I've tried my dad was a great dad and I've heard my 643 00:55:26,680 --> 00:55:32,200 dad talk about your dad and his relationship great that relationship with his dad and I 644 00:55:32,200 --> 00:55:38,600 and and but it wasn't perfect and I think that my dad's done some work and some improvement 645 00:55:38,600 --> 00:55:43,040 and and made some change there and in terms in terms of the traditions of his father's 646 00:55:43,040 --> 00:55:49,680 well then I come and I thought that I'd fixed them all I thought that I had taken care of 647 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,320 in fact you know people have said that y'all you're a tradition breaker you're you know 648 00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:58,040 whatever for your family and you broke the cycle and I thought I'd broke the cycle well 649 00:55:58,040 --> 00:56:04,440 I'm sitting there with this just happened Sunday we're sitting at dinner Sunday and 650 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:12,440 Dakota my middle son who has three wonderful little boys Jimmy Scotty and Hawes and he 651 00:56:12,440 --> 00:56:19,360 had a discipline one of his kids Jimmy and he did it in such a calm and Christ like way 652 00:56:19,360 --> 00:56:24,320 and that I think Deb made a comment to him like Dakota I'm just so impressed and he says 653 00:56:24,320 --> 00:56:30,360 I'm just trying to break the traditions of my father's did he use those words yeah he 654 00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:35,800 kind of maybe not verbatim but that was the message and he did use traditions of fathers 655 00:56:35,800 --> 00:56:41,320 and what a blow that was to me though yeah because here I thought and I didn't really 656 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:46,680 think that you know I mean that's falling well I hope my sons break the traditions and I 657 00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:53,480 was really grateful you know I did I as part of my gratitude list that night I made I made 658 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:59,560 intentionally made a note I'm so grateful for my kids who are being better with their 659 00:56:59,560 --> 00:57:05,320 kids than I was with I witnessed that with my son as well yeah yeah that's really which 660 00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,280 is it's actually a tender little mercy if we see it that way you know you know it is 661 00:57:09,280 --> 00:57:13,480 yeah it's actually a tender mercy where I can just that's one of the miracles that's 662 00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:18,160 one of the miracles going back to the very beginning of our podcast today that's one 663 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:24,640 of the miracles that I see greatest miracle and yeah and so that's change and that's 664 00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:30,480 what helps me change forgiveness that's what helps my conversion a miracle of progression 665 00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:39,440 the miracle of growth and hopefully you and me can continue to grow and and progress through 666 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:45,560 not not just on our own no no no not just on our own but through our faith in the Lord 667 00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:52,480 Jesus Christ and His atonement we can repent we can improve we can grow we can progress 668 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:57,840 yeah well so you just described it to that's a version unto the Lord faith in Jesus faith 669 00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:05,440 unto repentance faith in the name and you've you just encapsulated all of that so I I hope 670 00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:09,480 that what's an invitation we can give our listeners well there's a couple of really good ones here 671 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:14,400 but I think one of the ones should be let's let's be really looking and seeking for the 672 00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:19,080 miracles in our lives let's look for the even the small miracles that you know again small 673 00:58:19,080 --> 00:58:24,480 miracles medium miracles big miracles let's look for the small miracles in our lives and 674 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:30,840 then I think the real Dave the real important invitation would be with it we should probably 675 00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:37,000 all take an inventory we should all take a seeking searching fearless moral inventory 676 00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:43,800 of ourselves and where we are in this conversion process how is my conversion am I converted 677 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:50,760 unto the Lord so that I would never fall away and if I am what will it take for me to maintain 678 00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:56,560 that and if I'm not what will it take for me to get there love that Scott and again 679 00:58:56,560 --> 00:59:02,280 just like I said about faith you can't talk about it as though you have it or you don't 680 00:59:02,280 --> 00:59:06,600 you can't do that with being converted unto the Lord either it's it's not whether you 681 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:13,400 are whether you're not it's to what degree are you converted unto the Lord and I think 682 00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:20,400 most of our listeners are to a large degree converted unto the Lord but I love your invitation 683 00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:29,000 to take a kind of a self examination of where we are and how we can improve you know and 684 00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:36,400 this is good for you and me is is is really important it may be an important first step 685 00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:43,000 for us to be able to prove yeah yeah may God bless us to all be fearless in that approach 686 00:59:43,000 --> 00:59:47,920 as we assess where we are in our own conversion process and then give us the power that we 687 00:59:47,920 --> 00:59:51,600 need to deepen it that's our prayer we're grateful that you were with us today we look 688 00:59:51,600 --> 01:00:18,480 forward to being with you again next week and until then be well