1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:09,040 Hey everybody, we've got quite a treat in store for us today. We'll be doing a repeat 2 00:00:09,040 --> 00:00:13,920 interview, an interview that we did back in January of 2023 with just some wonderful 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:20,160 people who have had an experience and many experiences with the enabling and compensatory 4 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:26,400 and redeeming blessings that come to us through Jesus Christ's Atonement. I know you'll like 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:29,680 it. Enjoy. 6 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:52,160 Hey there everybody, Scott Durfee here back with yet another podcast here with my 7 00:00:52,160 --> 00:00:58,320 Uncle David say hey Dave. Hey, hi everybody. It's going to be with you. Today is going to be a very 8 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:05,120 special podcast, a very special episode. We have two special guests with us today, good friends of 9 00:01:05,120 --> 00:01:12,320 mine and about to become good friends of y'all's too. We have Jory Norton, say hi Jory. Hello, 10 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:18,240 and we have Mandy Norton, Jory's sweet beautiful wife. Say hi Mandy. That's correct, sweet and beautiful. 11 00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:25,040 Yeah, which is proof that Jory is just a fantastic salesman. There's truth to that too, 12 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:34,000 at least in that case. Yeah, for sure. So listen, over the past several episodes, I mean we have 13 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:40,800 nearly 40 out now, our focus the entire time has been one thing and that's been hope, healing, 14 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:46,240 and redemption through the Atonement of Jesus Christ. And today we, the reason we've brought 15 00:01:46,240 --> 00:01:54,240 Mandy and Jory as special guests with us today is they have some experience that I think can help all 16 00:01:54,240 --> 00:02:01,520 of us in gaining that and in establishing or even enhancing our relationship that we have 17 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:06,560 with Jesus, our Savior, through the administration of the Holy Ghost because of some experiences 18 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:10,960 that they've gone through. So I'm going to let David just kind of take it for a minute and 19 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:18,000 maybe start asking some questions and we'll just kind of follow the spirit, follow the flow. So 20 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:25,120 here we go. Well, we've talked before Scott and Mandy and Jory about the Atonement of Jesus Christ 21 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:32,000 and what the Atonement of Jesus Christ covers. We know that Jesus Christ died for our sins. 22 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:38,720 Sometimes we don't focus enough upon how he died for sins committed against us, 23 00:02:38,720 --> 00:02:46,640 for the suffering that we suffer innocently, for the suffering that we suffer through our children 24 00:02:46,640 --> 00:02:53,120 or through the sins or mistakes or failures of others. We don't talk enough sometimes about the 25 00:02:53,120 --> 00:03:01,280 compensatory blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, how he compensates us in our losses, 26 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:07,440 how this is twice in the Scriptures, right? Lehi said this to Jacob, Joseph Smith and Dr. 27 00:03:07,440 --> 00:03:13,680 and Covenants, Section 98, talking about the saints in Jackson County when they lost everything, 28 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:22,800 even some lives. And the Lord says that through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, he would consecrate, 29 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:32,000 consecrate all their afflictions for their gain, that somehow even in their losses, 30 00:03:32,000 --> 00:03:39,280 they would be consecrated. We think about Isaiah, that there would be beauty for ashes 31 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:46,080 through the Atonement of Jesus Christ, that there would be a garment of praise for a spirit of 32 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:54,560 heaviness. All of the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is not to just redeem us in the 33 00:03:54,560 --> 00:04:05,840 next life, in the afterlife, but how it compensates us because of the fall of Adam and Eve and not 34 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:14,560 just our sins, but our death and suffering and pain that we experience in here in mortality, 35 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:20,560 which is all part of our mortal experiences. But the Norton's, Brother and Sister Norton, 36 00:04:20,560 --> 00:04:28,320 we're so thankful that you're here. And you've had some experiences that have been so difficult 37 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:36,640 that I think our listeners can just gain so much strength from hearing your experiences and the 38 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:43,680 things that you've learned from these experiences. So, Mandy, you went on a mission? 39 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:52,160 Yes, I did. South Africa, Cape Town, South Africa. And had some success there? 40 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:57,040 I think. I had a lot of fun. It was a great experience. 41 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:04,880 Learn about the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Teach the restored gospel. Come home. You enjoy 42 00:05:04,880 --> 00:05:10,640 getting married how long after your home? Almost three years. You get married three years after 43 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:20,000 you returned home. Because one of your companions was his sister and that's how you met and that's 44 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:25,360 how you got married. So sweet. You had all these great spiritual experiences, but there's no way 45 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:32,400 you could anticipate what would soon happen after you returned home and got married. 46 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:39,280 And so why don't you just share with us a little bit about getting married and 47 00:05:39,280 --> 00:05:44,720 and the experiences that you had early on in your marriage and the loss of your child. 48 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:54,960 Okay. Let's see. We got married in 2002. He's the one that knows that kind of stuff. 49 00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:57,920 Hey, that's good. I'll take that one. I don't get very many. 50 00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:05,200 We got married in 2002 and quickly we're pregnant with our first baby. 51 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:16,320 And we lost that baby early on in a in a miscarriage and quickly had another baby 52 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:23,280 three months early. So so we had two babies in the span of a year, basically a year and one month. 53 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:33,600 And this was our sweet Kinley. She was born three pounds, 12 ounces. It's just a teeny little thing, 54 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:42,400 but was a fighter and holds still holds holds the record at Utah Valley Hospital for making it 55 00:06:42,400 --> 00:06:50,480 out of the ICU as quickly as she did. She was there for 10 days. So we were able to which I 56 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:58,640 see as a really big blessing also it allowed more time with her. But she required a lot of care. 57 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:07,600 So we never really left her. And then Jory, Jory's sister was getting married and was going to the 58 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:14,880 temple to have her endowments taken out. And we decided that we would leave her for the first time 59 00:07:14,880 --> 00:07:22,640 with a babysitter that was known and trusted around in our community. Our family members had 60 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:33,120 used her a few times and and I had no reservations at all about leaving her with her. And we went 61 00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:41,600 to the temple and had a really great experience that day with Dory's whole family. And in fact, 62 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:48,640 I think, Jory, you said just getting to know you this morning that it was one of the most 63 00:07:48,640 --> 00:07:55,760 powerful spiritual experiences that you had in the temple that day. Yes, share that. Yes, absolutely. 64 00:07:56,800 --> 00:08:02,800 So we, you know, just backtrack a little bit. But, you know, Mandy had come back from the mission 65 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:09,520 and met me and the time I was coming through some of my own struggles and actually in the process 66 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:16,000 of a divorce from a first marriage and and some coming out of some decisions and choices in my 67 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:25,600 life that trying to crawl out of a little bit. And and so to me, you know, she kind of came in at a time 68 00:08:26,240 --> 00:08:31,840 in my life where one being a salesman is an understatement. I don't know what she thought 69 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:38,800 or what she was thinking coming into the situation to look at me and say, yeah, there's potential there. 70 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:48,560 She saw you as an investigator. I'm going to I'm going to push pause on you right now because 71 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:55,280 you're misleading our listeners to a to a slight degree. Jory is a wonderful person and always 72 00:08:55,280 --> 00:09:01,360 has been. I've known Jory for about 20 years now. Jory and I met where I meet a lot of people that 73 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:09,360 we have on here and his mom and dad were actually very instrumental early on in my recovery from 74 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:17,680 drugs and alcohol. Don and Rhonda Norton will forever that their names will forever be sung 75 00:09:18,560 --> 00:09:24,560 with a lot of praises in this household because I love them so much. I remember actually about 76 00:09:24,560 --> 00:09:29,680 this time of year, Christmas time, going to their home for Christmas parties, you know, with with 77 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:34,960 several others. Jean was there and Patrick remember Patrick that played the guitar, you know, and all 78 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:41,280 that. It was just a great time. So, you know, Jory, Jory's a little bit self abasing here, 79 00:09:41,280 --> 00:09:47,200 which is fine. But he is just a wonderful, wonderful person. He's extremely successful in 80 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:53,760 the community. He has all kinds of he's one of the best looking men. Wouldn't you agree, Mandy? 81 00:09:53,760 --> 00:10:01,280 I agree. Yeah, that I've ever. He's aging well. Yeah, yeah, like fine wine, they say. I think. 82 00:10:01,280 --> 00:10:07,280 I'll take it. Yeah. So, so anyway, I just had to I had to call you out on that right early, 83 00:10:07,280 --> 00:10:13,840 Jory. So go ahead and continue. No, I appreciate that, Scott. And the feeling is mutual. Great. 84 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:18,160 Been great to know Scott and have the experiences we've had together. And 85 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:25,120 and but I was at a point in that my my life, I guess the perspective was I honestly looking 86 00:10:25,120 --> 00:10:32,800 in the mirror at that point. Yeah, I did not like what I saw. And fortunately, when I looked at her, 87 00:10:32,800 --> 00:10:39,760 she saw something better. And she saw something different. And so I she saw you with the eyes 88 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:47,120 of faith. Yeah, she she was a blessing and a miracle for sure in my life. And she may agree with 89 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:51,680 this may not, but she never she always wondered why she served a mission. It was kind of this last 90 00:10:51,680 --> 00:10:57,920 minute. Literally what two or three weeks, you kind of decided I guess I should go got the papers in 91 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:04,880 and she had had a call and turned around the MTC two weeks later and said what? Well, why did I 92 00:11:04,880 --> 00:11:12,400 get here? Kind of scenario. And so it's kind of one of those things as you have experience in life 93 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:19,680 and you look back, at least I I look up and again, give credit to to the man above for 94 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,080 for the opportunity that I was able to cross pass with her through her mission, 95 00:11:24,640 --> 00:11:30,880 her getting to serve with my sister and come back. And that's the way that we were able to meet. 96 00:11:32,720 --> 00:11:38,000 But again, at that time, you know, I was I I'll give myself some credit as Scott mentioned, 97 00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:43,360 I definitely was striving for something better. I knew I didn't want to be living the way that I had 98 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:49,040 and some of the things that had taken place and and she came in just at the moment where it was 99 00:11:49,040 --> 00:11:55,840 another motivation to say, okay, yeah, you know, I you know, you hear that story a lot, but those 100 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,720 women that kind of helped save us or help pull us in a better direction. And she definitely was that 101 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:07,520 for me. But as we went that time to the temple, we were fortunate enough, we were able to get married 102 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:13,760 in the temple through our time together, we dated for quite some time. But as she mentioned, 103 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:21,040 you know, with everything going on after Kenley was born, our daughter, you know, we hadn't been 104 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:27,760 really back to the temple much and left her until that time when my sister was was going through. 105 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:35,440 And so I will never forget the experience I had that day, the temple, it was just something I've 106 00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:42,560 never felt or experienced since. But the power I felt that day in the temple was something now that 107 00:12:42,560 --> 00:12:49,280 I definitely look back on and recognize the Lord's hand in that he was preparing me and I think 108 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:57,760 preparing both of us for what was about to take place. And so after the temple, I called the 109 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:05,440 babysitter, our daughter's name is Kinley, and she was almost eight months old, about a week away 110 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:12,000 from being eight months old. And I called to check on her and as soon as we got out of the temple, 111 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:17,760 and the babysitter said, she's fine, you know, everything's fine. And so we went to lunch and 112 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:30,320 then we went straight home. And I walked in the door and the babysitter was rocking our Kinley, 113 00:13:31,440 --> 00:13:41,920 who was cold and gray, and obviously not alive. But the babysitter said that she had fallen off the 114 00:13:41,920 --> 00:13:48,560 of a trundle bed. And at the time, you just believe what you're told, you know, we just 115 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:53,280 how in the world this happened, but okay, we got it, you know, let's do what we have to do. So I 116 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:58,560 grabbed her and I, I, Jory was outside in the car getting it warm for us. I grabbed her and I ran 117 00:13:58,560 --> 00:14:05,280 outside and I screamed, you know, take us, we got to go to the hospital. But then I realized her 118 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:14,560 neck was broken. And I needed to put her down so that I didn't paralyze her. And so we, because I 119 00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:19,440 thought going to the hospital in our car was going to be way faster than getting an ambulance to us. 120 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:28,960 But in the meantime, I took her in later on the floor and started CPR on her. And in about 30 121 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:38,720 seconds, a man that we have no idea who he is stopped and came in in his suit and tie. And he 122 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:44,720 was on his way. I think he said a baptism to a baptism. He left his whole family sitting out 123 00:14:44,720 --> 00:14:52,400 in the car. And he just had heard on the radio and he was helping me do CPR within probably 30 124 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:59,120 seconds of us calling 911. And he was a professional and he immediately knew we needed a helicopter 125 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:06,320 and had everything in the works for us, but we were able to have help, which we were pretty far 126 00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:14,160 away from help. And we were able to get help immediately. And I don't know how maybe five 127 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,720 minutes. So this guy was, when you say he was a professional, he was a medical professional. 128 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:25,440 Yeah, a paramedic. And the radio that he heard it on was his radio for work. Yes. Yeah. And he 129 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:31,680 happened to have a radio on him that he just called right in for a helicopter. And I recognized the 130 00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:37,200 signal that he called. They try to not tell you in front of, you know, and I just said, why, why 131 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:43,280 do we need a helicopter? She's okay. She's going to be okay. It's still, it didn't process yet 132 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:48,800 what was going on. She just fell off of a small bed, you know, we later learned that that's not 133 00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:55,360 what happened. And we don't know what happened to her. We've never been told the babysitters never 134 00:15:55,360 --> 00:16:04,240 told the truth. She's told a few stories. But we were able to, to get her to the hospital. And 135 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:09,920 by the time we got to primary children's hospital, they were already doing brain surgery and removing 136 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:18,880 her skull so she could, her brain could swell. And we still had, would you say we still had some hope 137 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:27,840 at that point? I think we were still pretty naive. We've gone from Salt Lake Temple home, which was 138 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:34,400 at this point, you know, Eagle Man area, the ranch is in from that point, the helicopter landed in 139 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:40,160 the street and took our daughter, whisked her away back up to primary children's. They said, that's 140 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:46,560 where we're headed. So we hopped back in the car, driving back up that same direction. And, 141 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:53,200 and I guess at this point, it was just this utter, you know, this, well, you can't even 142 00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:59,680 comprehend or understand or process or have time to even believe what happened. What was that drive 143 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:08,400 like? It was, it's super surreal when you think about it. Like, I remember watching the helicopter. 144 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:15,760 I kept just watching the helicopter. And I remember Jory's sister talking to him about how he was 145 00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:23,520 going to do this without falling off the wagon, drugs and alcohol. Right. And just saying, you've 146 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:28,160 got something big ahead of you. How are you going to do this? And that's all I really remember 147 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:36,160 about the drive there. Do you remember anything else? I even at that point, as I think back now, 148 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:42,480 I feel, you know, my grandpa once shared an experience of when he was in this horrible 149 00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:48,400 scenario in a plane that was going down. And he felt kind of this overwhelming, almost like honey, 150 00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:55,520 just kind of draped over him that, you know, he could take a breath and he felt this peace that 151 00:17:55,520 --> 00:18:00,080 he, you know, at that time didn't even know or understand, but it's later expressed what he 152 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:05,680 felt like that was. And I think even from the beginning, you know, as I look back on that drive, 153 00:18:06,640 --> 00:18:12,880 one, we, it was such a whirlwind and we still, we had a reason to hope we didn't really know for 154 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:19,040 sure what had happened. We hadn't heard any definite medical determinations or of what had taken 155 00:18:19,040 --> 00:18:28,720 place, but it was almost like already kind of in this cloud of protection of like, you know, 156 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:35,040 kind of what I felt in the temple that day. Yeah. And just this, this power beyond me that was aware 157 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:40,800 and not even knowing at that point what I was, what we were driving to other than something 158 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:45,040 not good had happened. So kind of in hindsight, you would look back at your experience in the 159 00:18:45,040 --> 00:18:51,200 temple. You said it was one of the most spiritual experiences you had had and you were being 160 00:18:51,200 --> 00:18:56,240 prepared. And so the administration of the Holy Ghost had been with you throughout that day and 161 00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:01,920 was continuing with you, it sounds like. Would you say that's accurate? For sure. And we've talked 162 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:11,120 about in this podcast several times, Mandy and Jory, that the Holy Ghost, the really one of the 163 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:17,520 major roles of the Holy Ghost is to administer the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. 164 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:25,840 So looking back on it now, but maybe not really knowing at the time, the Atonement of Jesus Christ 165 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:32,320 was being administered into your life really right from the very beginning, even before 166 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:38,480 even before you even knew what had happened. Yeah, for sure. And through that whole process, 167 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:43,040 right? Yeah. And Mandy, you're going to tell us more about what happened at the hospital. 168 00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:50,480 We got when we got there, they took us. I was a little bit of a crazy lady. I can chime in. 169 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:59,040 The ER was check full and I just barged my way right to the front desk and said, 170 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:05,200 my baby just came in on life flight. Where is she? And immediately they had us whisked off to a 171 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:13,280 room, a white room. And I'm in the medical profession. And I know what that white room means. 172 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:22,080 And it was a good hour maybe or two that we sat there and waiting for an update. And 173 00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:30,400 they came down and told us that she was, well, actually, in that time, we might want to add that 174 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:37,840 we, there were detectives up there and we didn't know why they had come to interview us and took 175 00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:43,280 us to separate rooms to make sure our story, they didn't know we weren't home. And it was called in 176 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:50,160 as a child abuse case by the helicopter from the helicopter. So they took us to separate areas and 177 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:56,320 interviewed us to make sure our stories matched. And then when they realized we weren't there, 178 00:20:56,320 --> 00:21:03,200 we really don't know what happened to her. They came and told us she had some serious fractures 179 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:11,760 to her skull and a broken neck and had been shaken very hard. Her, her, I can't think of it right, 180 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:19,920 we're torn. Yeah. And you know that there's, we're just going to see there's a chance, 181 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:27,600 there's not much of a chance, but there's a chance. And so we waited for a long time and family members 182 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:35,680 started to come and help us. And we spent that so that this was probably by the evening, Saturday 183 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:42,320 night. And nothing had really happened besides, you know, she was being kept alive on machines. 184 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:50,800 Tons of visitors, we were just really overwhelmed. And then the next morning, they just told us, 185 00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:58,240 you know, she, she declined during the night. And she's a vegetable, basically. And I can 186 00:21:58,240 --> 00:22:04,000 remember on the drive, the on the drive up there also praying saying, I will take care of any 187 00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:14,560 condition she's in, just save her. But so then we're Sunday morning, Jory and I were there alone. 188 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:21,440 And actually, I think, I think my parents slept in a waiting room somewhere around the hospital. 189 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:27,760 But there was a lot of that going on. Yeah, people were hiding out around waiting for us. 190 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:35,760 When I went in, and Jory was able to fall asleep for a few minutes, but I was able, I went and got 191 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:44,080 him and just said, you know, she's not doing well. And the team of doctors that had been working on 192 00:22:44,080 --> 00:22:51,920 her came and took us to a private room. And sat us down and just said, you know, we have machines 193 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:58,160 keep her body alive for as long as possible, or as long as you want. But, you know, you need to 194 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:05,280 think about taking her off of life support. And they were interested in donation, that was a part 195 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:12,800 of their trying to get us to quickly, you know, make some decisions. And they just stared at us 196 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:18,080 like we were supposed to just have that answer right away. And so we asked if it was okay if we 197 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:26,560 would pray about it. And they were respectful and left us there in the room. And Jory and I 198 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:34,880 knelt down together, just offered a simple prayer. And we stood up and we didn't say a word to each 199 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:43,840 other, we just hugged each other and said, we can do this. And at that point, we walked out and just 200 00:23:43,840 --> 00:23:49,120 got the doctor's attention and said, we're going to take her off. Let's find for her to go. 201 00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:59,360 There was no doubt in our mind, that experience of in that little waiting room, I'll never forget. 202 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:05,360 Again, you know, I look back on the temple or the driver, these little experiences now. 203 00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:14,000 And that is one that has been foundational for us as we knelt. And I mean, literally, 204 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:20,720 we stood up and we looked at each other and as we can look at each other now, and we did not 205 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:27,280 have to say a word. We never had to question. I couldn't imagine, you know, we stood up and she 206 00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:30,560 said, well, I think we should do this. And I said, Oh, no, I think we should do this. 207 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:38,240 We want to attend her mercy without even word spoken, just solidified in our hearts that we knew 208 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:44,720 that this it was her time. It was her time to go throughout this whole experience to I've had 209 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:53,520 a lot of people. I think a lot more people come to me than to Jory probably. I have a lot of 210 00:24:53,520 --> 00:24:59,920 other people that have lost kids and that kind of stuff that talk to me and say, how, 211 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:05,680 how are you not angry? How are you not? How did you ever go back to the temple? How did you go 212 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:13,520 back to church? How did you know any and still have people ask those questions? And it's never 213 00:25:13,520 --> 00:25:21,120 been a question in our mind that it was a punishment. You know, it has always been we've 214 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:28,640 just we've had that experience really has gotten us through a lot of really hard times by referring 215 00:25:28,640 --> 00:25:35,360 back to those feelings of she was supposed to go. And unfortunately, we had waited too long that her 216 00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:40,400 brain had been gone too long that she couldn't donate much, but her eyes, we were able to donate 217 00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:52,000 her eyes and give somebody else the chance to see. And honestly, I think through, 218 00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:59,360 you know, we waited for we waited for our family members to all get there to be able to say goodbye 219 00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:10,560 to her and we rocked her until she passed and driving the hardest part, I will say right for me was 220 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:22,960 leaving the hospital with my baby and heading her body over to somebody else, you know, 221 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:37,760 but I will say the they've known to people that have asked questions and asked how we did this and 222 00:26:37,760 --> 00:26:46,880 how all of it we could all we always just we have no other nothing else we could refer to 223 00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:53,760 of how we did this other than through the atonement and through somebody taking our pain for us. 224 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:05,360 And obviously, we still feel a lot of pain. And I miss my daughter, but the collateral beauty that 225 00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:15,040 we have seen come out from it from being able to help other people. And I honestly can't can't 226 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:20,880 give you a number on how many people have called and asked, you know, how do I help my family member? 227 00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:26,880 How do I help my sister? They just lost their child. This, you know, what could I do? Or I've 228 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,760 I've reached out when I hear of anyone that's lost a child, I always reach out to them. 229 00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:40,400 I feel like that's been more my part of filling her close to me is to help other people through it. 230 00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:49,360 But I haven't had a lot of spiritual experiences with her other than knowing where she is and 231 00:27:49,360 --> 00:27:57,200 knowing that that I get to be with her again. But I think Heavenly Father's way of helping me 232 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:06,320 is I'm a fixer, obviously, I'm somebody that wants to help him. And I think that's something 233 00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:12,480 that Heavenly Father's blessed me with is the ability to not be super emotional when I'm doing 234 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:21,360 that and to just help. You can't fix it, you know, but you can tell them that they're going to be okay 235 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:28,320 ways that we've been okay. You know, where did you kind of learn this, Mandy? I mean, 236 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:35,680 it's listening to your story. It's amazing to me. You were how old at the time? I was 26. 237 00:28:35,680 --> 00:28:42,000 Yes. You were 26 years old at the time. That's been, I think you said 19, she'd be 19 years old. 238 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:48,160 Yeah, on February or let's see, February 1st, she'll have been gone for 19 years. 239 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:56,000 Yeah, wow. So you were 26 years old, Mandy, and you were able to process all this as hard as it was 240 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:02,080 and is difficult and the grief and the mourning and all that that you went through. But somehow, 241 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:08,080 your faith never wavered. Never. Your testimony was never shaken. 242 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:17,840 You somehow knew that God was in control. How, where did that come from? Where did that strength 243 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:23,600 come from? I don't know. I had to dig deep. I think, I think we both did, but 244 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:34,240 it was something on your mission. Was it something in your youth? What was it that was it just a 245 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:40,560 gift? Was it something that was, were you born with this? Is this premortal? Is I mean, where did 246 00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:49,120 you get this, this, this spiritual strength or understanding of the Atonement of Jesus Christ? 247 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:56,880 And where did you get that at 26? I honestly don't know, but I think probably my mission 248 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,560 is where I started to kind of understand that I still don't understand the Atonement fully 249 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:13,120 and don't utilize it as much as I should and could. But I don't know. Honestly, I can't tell you. 250 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:20,720 I know it's a gift. Whether you can identify the source or not. This is a gift from God 251 00:30:21,360 --> 00:30:27,680 that somehow you were, you were blessed to receive and that you received it early in your life. 252 00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:32,240 And can you imagine trying to go through what you went through 253 00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:42,480 without having that gift? Yeah, I couldn't. People ask all the time, how would you do that? 254 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:48,160 How I could never do what you did. You know, people say that and I don't like comparing trials. I 255 00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:53,840 think our trials are relative to our own situations. I don't like people saying, Oh, I could never do 256 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:59,360 what you did because, you know, you never know how strong you're going to be until you have to be. 257 00:30:59,360 --> 00:31:10,000 Exactly. And I don't know where it came from, but I know that I have quite a few moms and quite a 258 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:18,000 few people that have been able to get strength from my testimony of it. It doesn't mean that I 259 00:31:18,000 --> 00:31:23,120 don't love her and don't miss her and would give anything to have her back. I would love to not have 260 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:29,120 to help these people, you know, I would love to not know what they're feeling. But a huge part 261 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:37,440 of me is to try to take some of their pain away. And I feel like that's been my calling since she 262 00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:46,000 passed. I think we've we've grieved and mourned in completely different ways. And I think mine has 263 00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:55,520 been more than through other people, helping and talking to other people. And just the hardest part 264 00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:00,560 is not not having an answer of what happened to our child, you know, to say, I don't know what 265 00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:06,400 happened to my baby, but this is how we got through it. I, you know, and we're still getting through 266 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:12,640 it. It's not something that you just get over ever. So so two things. So you were given a gift. 267 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:20,960 You received it. Yeah. 26 years old. And God has used you as a gift. I mean, literally, he's used 268 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:28,640 you as a gift and an instrument. Yeah, to bless the lives of so many more for the last 19 years. 269 00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:41,200 I do feel like that's been my way of honoring her and just keeping her alive in our home and 270 00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:48,320 around us is we don't we don't sugarcoat any of it. We don't. But everyone that knows us knows 271 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:54,960 about our daughter, because she's are still in our family, you know, she's still a part of our family. 272 00:32:54,960 --> 00:33:04,640 And yeah, I just think that that was my, my, my own personal blessing and still is. And like I said, 273 00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:12,000 the beauty that we've been able to see the ripple effect of what our testimonies have done for other 274 00:33:12,000 --> 00:33:19,120 people. It doesn't mean that I haven't questioned or it doesn't mean that I haven't, you know, 275 00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:27,760 but I could always go back to my testimony and knowing that I get to be with her again. And 276 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:36,400 I would never, I don't think I could do this without the gospel and knowing that I get to be 277 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:43,920 with her again. I mean, I guess other people do it, but I don't know how I would. Yeah. So, so not 278 00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:50,800 only the power and the grace and the mercy and all of that from the Atonement of Jesus Christ, 279 00:33:50,800 --> 00:33:56,640 not only the Holy Ghost and, and having the gift of the Holy Ghost, the Comforter to be with you 280 00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:05,040 and all of that. But what I'm hearing you say is your firm witness and testimony of the restored 281 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:13,040 gospel of Jesus Christ and the doctrine that families can be together forever and the unconditional 282 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:20,560 redemption of Jesus Christ and knowing that as parents having been sealed in the Holy Temple 283 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:30,080 for time and all eternity, that that child is yours forever and ever to be raised by you 284 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:38,400 in the millennium. Yeah. That's, that's given you a lot of strength too. Yeah. It gives me a lot 285 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:45,520 of hope and it keeps me going a lot. I mean, I'll admit, you know, I feel sometimes I feel like I 286 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:50,640 have one foot there and one foot here and want to be on both sides, you know, I want to be with her, 287 00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:58,960 but I, you know, I have my kids here. But yeah, I feel like we've, I've been given some kind of 288 00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:06,320 strength that, that only can be explained to me through our Savior. And this angel, 289 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:14,880 Kinley has, you haven't had any, you've said told told me earlier that you have any really 290 00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:21,200 personal experiences with her. You haven't felt, but how is she as an angel blessing your family? 291 00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:28,560 Do you think now? I think she's with my kids a lot. I know she's with our oldest daughter. 292 00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:34,880 She talks about her a lot and she, she actually writes in a journal that she writes to her. 293 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:41,200 That's how, she's, that's how much she wants her sister, you know, so she's, she writes letters to 294 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:47,600 her. This is your 17 year old daughter? Yeah. And she's always, since she was, could talk, she's 295 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:55,440 always had a very spiritual relationship with her, which has really helped also to, you know, 296 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:02,880 know that she's watching out for our kids. And, and I know that Jory's had some experiences with her. 297 00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:10,560 I even know of, you know, some neighbor kids that have said some things about her that they 298 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:18,000 shouldn't know her. Yeah. So, you know, she's around. She's our little angel. We do, we call her 299 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:24,800 her our angel and I know she's around and I, and I know that she's helping me more than I recognize. 300 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:31,680 The prophet Joseph Smith taught the doctrine that those who have passed on, our loved ones who have 301 00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:39,920 passed on, are more aware of us than we are of them. And they feel after us and they feel our 302 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:48,960 emotions. I think that's so interesting that, that he taught that and I believe that that we have, 303 00:36:48,960 --> 00:36:55,040 we all have people who love us on the other side of the veil and who watch over us. Yeah. And who, 304 00:36:55,040 --> 00:37:01,520 who definitely feel after us and are involved in our lives without us maybe being aware of them. 305 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:07,840 Yeah. Yeah. I, I prayed for years for some big experience, you know, I wanted to see her. I 306 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:14,720 wanted to see that she was okay and that, that hasn't been what Heavenly Father's wanted me to see. 307 00:37:14,720 --> 00:37:21,920 So I've had to find, sometimes I have to think of, you know, how can I do today and how can I get, 308 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:29,440 you know, but I, I can, we always do. In fact, you, you mentioned that you feel like that's almost 309 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:36,320 been a protection to you. Yeah. That you haven't had like a personal experiences maybe with her. 310 00:37:36,320 --> 00:37:43,440 Yeah. I just feel like it might be too, I'm really emotional when it comes to her and I feel like 311 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:49,840 it would maybe be too hard for me. And I think that's Heavenly Father's way of protecting me. 312 00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:59,680 Well, jury, on the other hand, when this all happened and your sister, was it your sister 313 00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:06,720 who warned you? Who warned you about this is going to be heavy? Yeah, my sister. I think it's going 314 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:11,920 to be hard. Why don't you just catch us up a little bit, Jorian, without getting into a ton of detail 315 00:38:11,920 --> 00:38:18,560 about maybe a few of the challenges and so forth that you had faced and through the help of a 12 316 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,720 step program and your Heavenly Father and Lord and Savior Jesus Christ was able to work into 317 00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:29,760 some recovery time and stuff like that. Why don't you just kind of give us that perspective? So I, 318 00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:37,680 I kind of alluded to, you know, how we met, Andy and I, and where I had gotten myself to a place of, 319 00:38:37,680 --> 00:38:44,320 you know, little better footing and overcome, you know, through 12 steps where, you know, 320 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:51,520 we met Scott and in, in those experiences there had gotten, you know, to a place where I had started 321 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:59,600 experiencing, you know, the atonement, you know, where I'd been in places of overwhelming despair, 322 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,400 you know, that whole that we dig and not knowing any other way that I could get out. I actually had 323 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:10,640 a front row seat to this, watching Jory go through the trials and stuff that he went through, not 324 00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:18,240 just during this time, but prior to attending, even after it. And to watch Jory walk hand in hand 325 00:39:18,240 --> 00:39:24,480 with the Spirit has been a wonderful thing through all of this, even right from the very start when 326 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,720 that relationship with the Spirit may have been just a little bit strange, Jory. Yeah. 327 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:37,600 No, it was, you know, it was those, you know, I kind of, in this experience and all of it, it interrelates 328 00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:43,920 to just, I guess, the natural man and our finite mind trying to figure it out, you know, how do I 329 00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:50,240 get through this, whether it was my challenges, you know, with addiction and substances and 330 00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:57,440 overcoming those things from decisions that I'd made. You know, I, you know, you get to a point 331 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:04,640 where you try anything and everything and your own power to say, I don't want to do this, you know, 332 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:11,120 I don't want to live like this, but I knew I would make that commitment and promise to myself 333 00:40:11,120 --> 00:40:16,720 every night, you know, after another day of, ah, man, I don't want to be living this way. I don't 334 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:22,160 want to be doing this, but yet that next day would come after every fiber of my being committing 335 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,720 that I don't want to be there. I'm not going to do this again. And the next morning I knew I would 336 00:40:28,720 --> 00:40:33,680 wake up and I knew exactly where I was going to be and what I was going to be doing because I didn't 337 00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:39,120 know any other way. You know, I couldn't fix some of these challenges and problems that I'd got myself 338 00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:45,440 into. And that was the beginning stages of my understanding of, you know, what do I need to do 339 00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:53,280 to find something in power greater than myself to restore me and help me to get out of this hole 340 00:40:53,280 --> 00:41:03,360 that I've dug. And my last experience was six years of that cycle of every day, you know, just 341 00:41:03,360 --> 00:41:08,160 not wanting to do the things I was doing, not want to live that way, even recognizing that, 342 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:13,600 you know, the wreckage and the things I was, you know, doing to people around me that loved me. 343 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:20,640 And I did not want that. My desires, my wants were good, but until I understood that I needed to look 344 00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:29,360 beyond my own self and willpower to find a way out of this, I couldn't six years. And I remember 345 00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:37,680 the day when I, what we call surrendered that, that day of complete desperation and pleading and, 346 00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:43,760 you know, call it that you dug that dug that hole. And I remember one phrase that stuck with me is, 347 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,480 you know, if you want to get out this hole, because I was digging it, trying to dig myself 348 00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:54,320 out. And that was just creating tunnels all over the place to nowhere. But the simple phrase, 349 00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:02,720 drop the shovel, stop digging and look up. And kind of interrupt you really fast. I think it's 350 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:09,760 a, well, I think it's really important for, for you to say that you were able to be clean 351 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:19,680 and sober through Kim Lee's entire life, which the six years came after that. But before that, 352 00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:27,920 he also struggled for years. So, you know, with this huge, you know, with addiction and recovery, 353 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:33,840 it's not just a one day thing and you're better. And he was able, we feel like it was such a blessing 354 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:41,280 from heaven that he was able to be clean for her whole life. Yeah. Well, how come? Why? Why? As 355 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:46,800 long as Kim Lee was here, what was there? What was the saving grace about Kim Lee? What was it about 356 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:54,640 this baby? This angel already? Yeah. How did she save your life for a year? Yeah, you've raised the 357 00:42:54,640 --> 00:43:03,440 term gift. And that's kind of resounding in my mind. I talked about my angel wife, the gift of the 358 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:09,440 timing and when she came into my life. And then we talk about this gift of our angel daughter. And 359 00:43:10,880 --> 00:43:15,600 you know, my true desires, you know, and I think through all of that, it's just, it's 360 00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:20,720 understanding of the perspective. You know, we think things in our own mind and try to solve it, 361 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:26,000 but not understanding that the Lord is always there. He's mindful. He's aware of us. He waits 362 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:34,160 patiently, very patiently in some cases like mine. But she definitely, you know, was a gift 363 00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:41,680 at that time. And as Mandy mentioned, one of the greatest tender mercies now that I recognize, 364 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:49,280 and we've mentioned a few of these, is the fact that her life, I was in a place where I was there 365 00:43:49,280 --> 00:43:55,280 and I was present, and I was able to love her with everything I had up until her last day. 366 00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:04,400 And now I continue to, and I feel her close and I know she's there. But for me, I think perspective 367 00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:11,600 is really something that's changed everything in my life. It's perspective and through the spirit, 368 00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:19,920 we're actually able to see a true, infinite perspective where naturally we just get caught up 369 00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:26,480 in, you know, this and that and the things that, you know, we have to do here. We have to accomplish, 370 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:33,120 but we don't see the bigger picture or understand it or even comprehend it. And through all these 371 00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:40,960 experiences and my experiences through the perspective of the spirit, I've learned what the 372 00:44:40,960 --> 00:44:48,800 Atonement of Jesus Christ is for me, for myself, for our angel daughter, for our family. And I'm 373 00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,360 so grateful for that. There's days now, like I said, we're in different places, you know, all of us, 374 00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:57,840 we're doing different things and the world will throw something across our bow, you know, any 375 00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:05,040 given day that's going to take us for a loop or ride. But I know through my experiences that in 376 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:11,120 the Sure Foundation I have on the rock of our Redeemer Jesus Christ, through my experiences, 377 00:45:12,080 --> 00:45:18,400 what a gift it is to have that perspective. And no matter what, as long as I have that foundation, 378 00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:23,200 I can come back to that same perspective, whether it's with my own challenges with our 379 00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:30,240 family, our daughter, our 17 year old teenage daughter now, what an incredible gift we learn 380 00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:35,600 through these experiences if we are able to see them through the lens of the spirit in that 381 00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:43,200 perspective. The eternal perspective that the gospel gives us, right? So, Jory, I love this phrase, 382 00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:55,360 put down the shovel, put down the shovel and look up. Wow. Is that a thought or like a voice in 383 00:45:55,360 --> 00:46:01,920 your mind? And tell me what happened right after that? How did that come to you? 384 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:07,760 It's interesting, you mention it even now, and you can call it a thought, you can call it, 385 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:17,520 you can kind of picture it or whatever, but it is a physical experience of relief, of lifting 386 00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:27,280 off these weights of years of just wondering how did I get here? How do I get to a better place? 387 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:34,560 Even though I want it with all my heart and soul, I can't figure this out. For me now, it's a daily 388 00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:41,280 event. You can look at that picture, but I feel that in my things. There's things that I do every 389 00:46:41,280 --> 00:46:48,480 single day now that I've learned through my experience in life and recovery that I know I 390 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:56,960 start my day every single day with that type of visual in my studies, in my prayer and meditation 391 00:46:56,960 --> 00:47:04,640 that I know each day I got to do that almost in a way, fill that burden lifted and say, Lord, I 392 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:10,000 need your help and I'm ready and I'm willing. Guide me today and the things that you'd have me do. 393 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:16,240 This is like President Nelson describes the daily, the joy of daily repentance. 394 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:23,120 Basically, you feel that, right? Yeah, absolutely. Thank you for reminding me 395 00:47:23,120 --> 00:47:29,360 because we take it for granted and it doesn't take long for me to think back. 396 00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:37,680 And that's the gift too. We were reminded and have gratitude, which in tune keeps in line with our 397 00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:43,440 humility and our ability to recognize and feel and see the tender mercy of the Lord, feel the 398 00:47:43,440 --> 00:47:51,840 spirit and have the strength we need to push forward. And for me to support and love my amazing 399 00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:57,680 life through these experiences, you know, and I think that's part of the, you know, the perspective 400 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:02,960 I see. There's things I went through that helped prepare me. You know, it doesn't seem like that 401 00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:11,120 was a good thing for me to go through or have to experience or live with. But now, when we see 402 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:16,720 things through the lens of that perspective and the spirit, we recognize it for what it is and 403 00:48:16,720 --> 00:48:22,400 it's the truth that, you know, I was here. I'm always here. And all these things will work together 404 00:48:22,400 --> 00:48:28,080 for your good. And that all these things will be consecrated for your gain as an elders' 405 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:33,200 quorum president that you're right, is that your service? Your brother, yeah. Yeah, that's right. 406 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,400 That's right. You're my brother's war. I'm sorry for him. I apologize. You're his elders' quorum 407 00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:46,800 president. I mean, through opportunities like that, really, Jory, because of your experience, 408 00:48:47,520 --> 00:48:52,640 how are you able to administer the Atonement of Jesus Christ into the lives of others because 409 00:48:52,640 --> 00:49:01,600 of your experience? Yeah, that is, I'm still learning, but what an amazing blessing. I have 410 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:08,320 opportunities, you know, and if anything I've learned in my experience of calling or whatever, 411 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:16,080 it's about the one, you know. And I've had opportunities to really experience that with 412 00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:23,040 people that I can really understand and relate and share my faith and hope with through those 413 00:49:23,040 --> 00:49:27,600 experiences. Jory's not going to be the kind of person that's going to really tout himself much, 414 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:34,240 which is great, and we wouldn't want that anyway, but I feel like it's important that I say something 415 00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:41,680 about that. You know, Dave, you ask a question, how do you help administer the Atonement of Jesus 416 00:49:41,680 --> 00:49:48,400 Christ, Jory, to those among whom you serve? Your ward members, virtually all of the adults in your 417 00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:55,200 ward are under your stewardship, at least all of the men. And the answer to that is obvious to 418 00:49:55,200 --> 00:50:01,600 those of us who know you. And it may not be obvious to you because to those of us who know you, you 419 00:50:01,600 --> 00:50:07,280 know, the way we administer, the best way anything or anybody could administer the Atonement of Jesus 420 00:50:07,280 --> 00:50:15,120 Christ into the lives of others is to be Christ-like. And Jory is Christ-like. And in order for that to 421 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:20,160 be accomplished, there's really a few things that need to happen too, right? The Scriptures tell us 422 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:24,320 that this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God in Jesus Christ, whom thou 423 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:32,720 hast sent. Jesus, I mean, Jory knows Jesus. He knows him. He knows him. And then there's another 424 00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:36,880 commandment, you know, be therefore perfect, even as I or your Father in heaven, which is, 425 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:45,520 even as I or your Father who is in heaven is perfect. Jory is not perfect, but Jory is inviting 426 00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:51,600 and qualifying for perfection through the Atonement of Jesus Christ by supplicating himself 427 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:58,400 every single day. Right, Mandy? I mean, on a pretty regular basis, at least, to the will of our 428 00:50:58,400 --> 00:51:02,720 Heavenly Father, turning his will and his life over to the care of God as we understand him, 429 00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:07,280 which is the third step of the Alcoholics Anonymous. And Jory also talked about, 430 00:51:08,240 --> 00:51:13,120 when you asked him about putting down the shovel, and Jory said, it's just something I have to do 431 00:51:13,120 --> 00:51:18,560 every day. And the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, we read, and I don't know if I'm quoting it, 432 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:28,400 verbatim, I think I am, but we read what we really have is just a daily reprieve based on our 433 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:36,640 spiritual condition. Oftentimes, some of the greatest gifts in our lives, beauty for ashes, 434 00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:42,320 you know, can come from some of the most tragic, seemingly tragic to the rest of the world, 435 00:51:42,320 --> 00:51:48,160 seemingly tragic experiences. There's no doubt that the two of you and your entire family, 436 00:51:48,160 --> 00:51:52,080 because this stuff doesn't happen in a bubble. This has affected everyone who loves you. 437 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:59,280 This affected Deb and I. We cried, literally cried multiple times as we prayed by the side of our 438 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:04,880 bed for you while this was going on. This stuff doesn't just happen in a bubble. It happens to all 439 00:52:04,880 --> 00:52:10,320 of us. When it happens to one of us, it happens to all of us. And the thing that we've been able to 440 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:16,160 see, and I've appreciated, and Jory, you've had your struggles through it. We all have struggles 441 00:52:16,160 --> 00:52:25,280 through it. But because you have been able to exercise a broken heart, right? I can't. He can. 442 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:32,080 I think I'll let him. That's how we kind of define that in recovery. And a broken heart and a 443 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,680 contract spirit, and you already talked about that. You know, the contract spirit is just turning 444 00:52:35,680 --> 00:52:42,240 to him every day, finding joy and daily repentance. And you talked about that. And your example, 445 00:52:42,240 --> 00:52:47,360 to not just those around you, not just those in your ward, not just those in your family, 446 00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:53,200 not just those that you have stewardship over in your own family, too. But many, many others, 447 00:52:53,200 --> 00:53:01,360 Jory and Mandy, because of the things that you've gone through, we all, we all get to fill and witness 448 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:08,240 the effects of the atonement as well. Well, I feel really Mandy and Jory, I feel like Ken Lee 449 00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:14,880 has blessed my life today. Thanks. You know, just getting to know you and to know your story, 450 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:23,600 I feel like your experience and her, that she's blessed my life today. I want to read to you 451 00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:32,080 a quote from Elder Anderson's book called The Divine Gift of Forgiveness. And I want you to 452 00:53:32,080 --> 00:53:35,920 just comment on this, because there's kind of another aspect of this story, I think, 453 00:53:35,920 --> 00:53:44,400 which is not just how the atonement covered you, compensated you, how the atonement of Jesus Christ 454 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:54,080 allowed you to consecrate your loss for gain, but how you were able to forgive, how you were able to 455 00:53:54,080 --> 00:54:02,320 forgive and not allow any sort of resentment to come into your life as a result of this experience. 456 00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:08,000 So let me read this quote and ask you to respond to this quote, Mandy, and just give me your thoughts 457 00:54:08,000 --> 00:54:16,880 about it. Okay. Our faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ not only includes faith in the Savior's 458 00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:26,400 ability to pay for our sins, but also his ability to heal our wounds when others sin against us. 459 00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:34,640 Yes, Christ paid for all the sins of all the world, including the effects of those sins. 460 00:54:36,160 --> 00:54:45,280 Forgiveness is not excusing sin. It is trusting in the atonement of Jesus Christ. 461 00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:54,320 I like that last part so much, because can you read that last sentence one more time? 462 00:54:54,320 --> 00:55:02,160 Yeah, I love it too, Mandy. Forgiveness is not excusing sin or the mistakes of others. 463 00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:10,080 Forgiveness is not excusing sin. It is trusting in the atonement of Jesus Christ. 464 00:55:10,080 --> 00:55:16,800 That's exactly what we've had to do. I've had to do, because I can tell you honestly, 465 00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:24,720 my feelings, and I think we talked about this quite a bit, but at the beginning I just knew I 466 00:55:24,720 --> 00:55:31,440 needed, I couldn't do it being angry. I couldn't live that way. I couldn't live being mad at this 467 00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:39,840 babysitter. I couldn't live with that resentment inside of me and be happy. And I, it was pretty 468 00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:47,200 fast that I just felt like, okay, we just need to forgive her and move on with that part. 469 00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,360 It's not going to work. She's not going to tell us what happened. 470 00:55:53,600 --> 00:55:58,640 She's never really apologized. Never apologized, really. It's just been, but 471 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:06,400 I felt pretty immediately that it was essential to forgive her 472 00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:14,960 so that we could really grieve for our daughter. I will, I want to be honest in saying that 473 00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:24,080 as the years go by, I do have a lot of moments of anger towards the babysitter 474 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:32,080 against, who's, you know, sinned against us, but it's always usually taken away from me pretty fast. 475 00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:36,800 And the only anger I feel about it is I just want her to say she's sorry. 476 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:46,640 But that's, I just have, I know that I'm not going to know what happens until my daughter tells me 477 00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:54,800 what happened to her. And holding resentment and hatred and holding those feelings inside 478 00:56:54,800 --> 00:57:03,440 or it's too heavy. It's too much. So we have to give it up. That's a choice. It's a daily choice. 479 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:09,440 Several times a day sometimes. That's a choice you made from the very beginning. 480 00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:17,360 Was it your focus would not be on the babysitter? Yep. Your focus was going to be on Kenley and 481 00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:24,400 the atonement of Jesus Christ and being an eternal family. Yep. It's the only way that I could have 482 00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:31,440 survived it. I didn't want to be here anymore after she left and that caught me through. 483 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:38,000 And for 19 years, that's been a daily choice. Yep. It's definitely a choice. 484 00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:45,520 That's amazing. But I also feel like it's been a huge gift from Heavenly Father to give that to us 485 00:57:45,520 --> 00:57:54,400 because had so many people say, you were in the temple. How could, you know, how, how could a loving 486 00:57:54,400 --> 00:58:03,920 Heavenly Father do this to you? And that was said to us a lot. I, I could honestly say I never felt 487 00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:12,160 anger towards my Heavenly Father for it. I never felt like I was getting punished or or that I, 488 00:58:12,160 --> 00:58:18,480 I don't know. It's, it was just a gift. The atonement of Jesus Christ is there for all of us. 489 00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:25,120 Yeah. Right. The gift is for all of us. Yeah. But it must be received and that's the choice. Yeah. 490 00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:33,280 That is the choice. And you have chosen daily to choose him and to choose the atonement of Jesus 491 00:58:33,280 --> 00:58:38,960 Christ and redemption and the gospel of Jesus Christ, all of that. And others who don't focus on 492 00:58:38,960 --> 00:58:47,520 that, but choose to focus on the negative. It's, it's amazing how, how that goes to two different 493 00:58:47,520 --> 00:58:55,760 places. Yeah. And I don't want to sound like I'm the saint that, you know, never, never has hard 494 00:58:55,760 --> 00:59:01,360 feelings or never, you know, I don't want to sound like that. But we're just sinners helping sinners. 495 00:59:01,360 --> 00:59:10,640 Right. Yes. I do plenty of things that are right. Yes. But I do feel like through the last 20 years, 496 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:17,120 you know, that we've, I've been guided and directed and I've been carried. Yeah. I think it's 497 00:59:17,120 --> 00:59:22,880 important for us to, we've thought about this a lot, but in honoring her and through this experience, 498 00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:29,520 we've had discussions of nothing else. What can we do from this and learn from this experience 499 00:59:29,520 --> 00:59:37,360 and share hope? I'm sure there's listeners. And my hope is that they recognize, you know, that this 500 00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:45,360 is, no matter where you're at, you know, there is that hope and there is that gift. And we, through 501 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:50,880 our experiences, you know, that's all we have to share, not a perfect way of how we got there, 502 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:55,200 how we did it, you know, it's, we all have our roundabout way, but that hope is there, that gift 503 00:59:55,200 --> 01:00:04,000 is there. And as we have chosen, as you mentioned, to accept that gift, you can't even express the 504 01:00:04,000 --> 01:00:10,080 gratitude that we have to our loving heavenly Father and, and to our Savior for His atonement 505 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:18,480 and sacrifice that has brought us here. Yeah. The neck, the, for us to, 506 01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:26,720 I don't want to say the word celebrate, but when the anniversary of the date came of her death, 507 01:00:28,080 --> 01:00:33,440 we were wondering how do we do get through this day? And we decided we go to the temple, 508 01:00:34,480 --> 01:00:38,160 show heavenly, you know, it was kind of our way of thanking Heavenly Father for the gifts that 509 01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:43,360 He's given us. And we went to the temple and the temple president came and talked to us for a while 510 01:00:43,360 --> 01:00:50,160 before and told us that we had a baby girl coming and I sure enough had a baby girl in, in my tummy. 511 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:58,720 And it was just was a really special experience that being in the same place on the anniversary 512 01:00:58,720 --> 01:01:07,280 that she died was healing for us. And we did it for quite a few years with that and invited family 513 01:01:07,280 --> 01:01:13,600 members and stuff. And it just, to me, that was our way of just telling Heavenly Father, we're 514 01:01:13,600 --> 01:01:25,040 still here. Thank you and keep helping us, you know. Well, thank you for your sharing your story 515 01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:31,840 and the blessing of hope and, and the healing that that offers to so many of our listeners, 516 01:01:31,840 --> 01:01:38,160 myself included. I'm really, I'm really, really thankful that you came and and shared your experience 517 01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:44,800 with us today. And, you know, Scott will kind of help us conclude this, but I, I'd like to maybe 518 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:51,840 just invite them, Scott, when you're finished, to maybe just share by just seems appropriate, 519 01:01:51,840 --> 01:01:57,600 the spirits really strong here to end with something of a testimony in the name of Jesus 520 01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:07,600 Christ and so grateful for him and for all that he has given us that he, you know, was so willing to 521 01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:13,920 come down and knowing that we would have these experiences, no doubt knowing even before you 522 01:02:13,920 --> 01:02:20,160 had that experience that you would have that experience and that he suffered it. And grateful 523 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:28,800 that you've been able to receive it. It's, it's, it's there, but it has to be received. And those 524 01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:34,800 who reject the gift, as we've talked about, not only reject the gift, they reject the giver 525 01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:45,280 of the gift. Yeah, Christ himself. And you're, you're an amazing example of, of receiving that gift 526 01:02:45,280 --> 01:02:50,960 and the blessing it's been in your life and in all of our lives who know you. So thank you so much, 527 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:56,720 Scott. Thanks for being with us, you guys. I hope you know how much I love you. And thanks for being 528 01:02:56,720 --> 01:03:02,480 here and sharing with us something that can't be easy to share, something that can't even be easy 529 01:03:02,480 --> 01:03:08,640 to relive like you must have to do even sometimes in the quiet chambers of your own soul, you know, 530 01:03:08,640 --> 01:03:14,800 and to, to deal with the things that you've had to deal with. I appreciate our relationship. I 531 01:03:14,800 --> 01:03:20,880 appreciate the experiences that we have had over the years. Some of my most spiritual experiences 532 01:03:20,880 --> 01:03:26,960 have been in the same room with Jory and, and I appreciate that. Love you both. Thanks for being 533 01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:32,560 with us today. I know that you will have touched. So we're going to conclude first, we'll hear from 534 01:03:32,560 --> 01:03:39,600 Jory, then we'll hear from Andy, if that's okay. And upon conclusion, may you just know how much 535 01:03:39,600 --> 01:03:44,080 our listeners, how much we love you, how much we appreciate you're being a part of this with us 536 01:03:44,080 --> 01:03:51,360 today and always. And we invite you to always remember that you have always been also been 537 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:56,240 redeemed through his blood. If you'd like to get ahold of Mandy and Jory for whatever reason, 538 01:03:56,240 --> 01:04:03,440 we'd invite you to just reach out to me or to David and I here at he redeems us at gmail.com. 539 01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:07,920 And we will go ahead and filter those through as is appropriate to them. 540 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:17,440 Okay, with that, Jory, I first just express my gratitude for the opportunity to be here and be 541 01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:28,960 with you. And as Scott mentioned, it is, it is a lot to consider when asked, because we know 542 01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:38,000 every time the roller coaster we're about to jump on of emotion and reliving experiences and challenges. 543 01:04:38,000 --> 01:04:43,760 But my testimony is one just ultimately of gratitude, because my next emotion right after, 544 01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:52,080 oh, you know, am I going to be able to do that again? And along with my sweet wife and seeing 545 01:04:52,080 --> 01:04:57,920 and knowing the emotion it brings up in her to share these experiences, immediately I go to 546 01:04:57,920 --> 01:05:07,760 gratitude for what the Lord has given me for the gift of the Atonement for the redeeming power. 547 01:05:07,760 --> 01:05:16,320 I truly have been rescued. I've truly been redeemed through his grace. I've seen it directly 548 01:05:17,520 --> 01:05:24,000 in my day to day life and in overcoming challenges and given the enabling power through our struggles 549 01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:30,320 and trials and this experience of losing our daughter that we shared with you today. But if 550 01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:40,720 nothing else, I just want to share ultimately my testimony of hope through him, no matter where 551 01:05:40,720 --> 01:05:46,960 you're at, and anyone listening, if there's nothing else I could give today, it would be that gift 552 01:05:46,960 --> 01:05:54,480 of hope, that knowing that through my experience with the Savior and the Atonement, he has given me 553 01:05:54,480 --> 01:06:00,080 the strength to overcome things that I never thought I could overcome, to get through trials 554 01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:06,080 that I never could have comprehended. And in turn, taking me to places where I look at now, 555 01:06:06,080 --> 01:06:12,160 and you mentioned, you know, Elders Corn President, and to me, I still like look at point, wait, 556 01:06:12,160 --> 01:06:20,720 wait, you're talking to me? You know, that's me. I look back and there's no doubt in my mind, 557 01:06:20,720 --> 01:06:28,560 every fiber of my being knows why and how. I used to ask the question, how did I get here? And that 558 01:06:28,560 --> 01:06:38,480 was one of beaten, bruised, torn through trials and decisions and challenges and one of frustration. 559 01:06:38,480 --> 01:06:45,920 Today, my testimony is complete opposite of how did I get here? And looking up and thanking my 560 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:52,400 Heavenly Father for His Son and for His grace and for the joy I have each day and living with that, 561 01:06:52,400 --> 01:06:57,680 and accepting that gift that He offers each and every one of us. I just share that with you and 562 01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:07,120 in my testimony and gratitude for this opportunity and love of my sweet incredible life and the gift 563 01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:12,080 that she is to me. And I do that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen. 564 01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:18,880 Jory is much better at this than I am. He's more of the, He would like to shout His testimony from 565 01:07:18,880 --> 01:07:25,040 the rooftops and He does as much as He can and I'm more quiet about it and a little bit more 566 01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:31,440 reserved. But I'll admit it took a lot for me to get here. It took a lot of Jory coursing me to get 567 01:07:31,440 --> 01:07:44,240 here. I didn't, I was scared to relive it. But I've always been reminded that if I can help one person, 568 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:53,760 it's worth it. And I truly believe with all of my heart that we don't go through our trials to keep 569 01:07:53,760 --> 01:08:00,560 quiet about them. We go through our trials to help people and otherwise what, what is it? 570 01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:07,680 What is it worth? You know, we didn't go through this to hide and be quiet. We went through it to 571 01:08:07,680 --> 01:08:13,280 be able to be there for other people and I'm grateful that I can see that perspective. And I think, 572 01:08:14,640 --> 01:08:23,360 you know, Heavenly Father, it's more subtle and inside of me my testimony, but there's nothing that I 573 01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:34,880 there's nothing I hold more dear to my heart than my testimony to our Savior. And I'm so grateful that 574 01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:43,520 He is there for me and gets me through a lot of hard days. It doesn't go away. People always ask, 575 01:08:43,520 --> 01:08:48,640 you know, how long does it take to get over? You don't, it doesn't, you don't get over it. 576 01:08:48,640 --> 01:08:53,680 And I just know that my Heavenly Father has helped me every day and He helps me to know the right 577 01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:59,760 thing to say to other people that are struggling. And if I can help one person through this, it's 578 01:08:59,760 --> 01:09:10,080 all worth it. And I just want to share that I know my Savior and Heavenly Father are aware of me and 579 01:09:10,080 --> 01:09:19,840 I might not feel my daughter physically close to me, but I know she's around. And I know that she 580 01:09:19,840 --> 01:09:29,040 is cheering us on. And I just want you to know that we're here to help each other through our trials. 581 01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:35,920 We're not here to go through this alone. And that's the Savior proved that to us. And I'm just really 582 01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:41,920 grateful for that. And I say that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.