Hey there everybody welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
We've got Scott and David Durfey here today.
How you doing Dave?
Great Scott.
Good day Dave. Be with you. It's good to have another beautiful day here as we walk
on into summer. I'm so glad that we're finally doing that.
And I know you're golfing today so that's your every day.
Beautiful day to golf. I've seen very few days.
That's not a beautiful day to golf.
That are beautiful days for golf.
Yeah I can understand that.
And we again received a couple of great emails this week.
Want to thank you for those. Thanks for sharing your experiences.
For those of you who are asking questions we appreciate those too.
We try and answer those here on the podcast as they come.
So if you have questions or if you have comments that you'd love to share with us we'd love
to hear them. You can do that at heredeemsusatgmail.com.
Well Dave over the last few and this will be yet another episode where we focus on forgiveness.
Yeah Scott we are kind of at the conclusion of the course.
I mean we're getting close and this is kind of the culmination of all of it.
Everything that we've done speaking about our identity to begin with and speaking about
premortal existence and who we are and whose we are and talking about the plan of redemption
and the fall of man and the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And then we've been several weeks now on the doctrine of Christ which is faith in the Lord
Jesus Christ, repentance and receive ordinances and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
So we are and enduring to the end.
Which and that's kind of where we're at is receiving the Holy Ghost and enduring to
the end.
And so I think that this is such an important topic Scott to be able to help one another
to recognize the Holy Ghost in our lives to really understand the role of the Holy Ghost
to really understand what his purpose is and to understand as President Irving says that
whenever we feel the Holy Ghost that the atonement of Jesus Christ is working in our lives and
we are being forgiven.
The paraphrase Elder Christopherson years ago in a conference talk he said that the Holy
Ghost is the messenger and the administrator of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives.
And I've always I've always kind of loved that and that has always been such an important
title of the Holy Ghost for me.
It's a description of the role of the Holy Ghost.
The messenger and the administrator of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives.
And just think about that for a minute messenger.
He's the one that really teaches us God.
I mean we have the word of God but without the Holy Ghost to confirm in our minds and
hearts the word of God it doesn't have the same power or meaning.
So the Holy Ghost really teaches us is the messenger about Jesus Christ and his atonement.
And then he is the administrator.
He ministers all of the grace all of the mercy all of the redemptive enabling and compensatory
powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life.
He's the sanctifier.
He's the justifier.
He's the cleanser.
He's the healer.
You know we speak of really Jesus Christ as a healer but really it's through the instrument
of the Holy Ghost and the personage of the Holy Ghost that Jesus Christ really performs
that.
So the Holy Ghost is plays such a critical role.
I mean just think about this Scott that I know I know what the greatest gift of God
is the greatest gift of God is eternal life.
That's doctrine covenants right 14 seven.
But in this life in this life before we receive the gift of eternal life the supernal gift
that we've been offered to be our companion is the gift of the Holy Ghost and I I just
believe Scott that so many of our challenges our problems are our heart aches are afflictions
are adversities everything can be swallowed up in the comfort and in the knowledge that
we have the Holy Ghost to be our constant companion and I take that pretty literally
Scott that the Holy Ghost can be our constant companion.
Now I know I don't always feel him.
I don't feel him every moment but I believe he's with me and even every man is a sinner.
I'm a sinner.
You're a sinner.
I sin every day you sin every day Scott Paul said no one's without sin.
I get that we're all fallen we're all lost.
It takes it takes a lot to lose the Holy Ghost Scott honestly I have totally flipped from
my mission on my mission.
You know what you know when you're new when you're really new I was really new to feeling
recognizing receiving the Holy Ghost even though I know I felt it throughout my life
from the time of my baptism at the age of eight and I know the Holy Ghost was with me
but I hadn't really noticed him or recognized him as powerfully in my life tell my mission
and I kind of came to this conclusion I think I told my companion this once you know it's
really it's really hard to get the Holy Ghost and it's really easy to lose him and I that's
kind of how I felt a little bit on my mission I was so sensitive to the spirit that I that
I I'm sure I felt that way at the time I said it.
However I have completely changed completely flipped in my philosophy about that coming
back to life from a mission and going through all the all the gunk that you go through and
all the great things to all the great things to but the the challenges and the hardships
I mean you think your your mission is hard right well you know try try raising a family
of six six children let's talk about what's hard.
Yeah right.
And anyway I I know that coming back into the into the world and and trying to continue
to progress is a is a hard thing after your mission and after all of these years Scott
40 something years now that I've been home from my mission no 50 years it'll be 50 I
wasn't going to correct it will be 50 years next year that I came home from my mission
it's almost 40 for me so I'm 70 years old Scott and and honestly I have completely flipped
it is so easy to get the Holy Ghost and it is so hard to lose him honestly Scott that's
how I feel I I well you better put that in context so others you know you because now
you said well I'm 70 is that because you're older and you find it easier to live the gospel
well partly or is it because you've decided that maybe the way I saw it before was a little
too regimented well I I think I've gone through a lot and I've I've lived a lot of things
had lots of experiences and I guess the one thing I've learned which I which we have tried
hard in this podcast help others to learn is to speedily repent yeah I mean really I
I kind of live in a state of repentance as well as I think we should and I'm not perfect
at that I'm I want to get better at that but I am always thinking about repentance and
I'm repenting every day and I I I certainly know more about the Atonement of Jesus Christ
now that I knew on my mission and having all the experiences of teaching for 40 years and
seminaries and institutes and having ecclesiastical positions and and raising a family and seeing
children struggle and seeing them repend and anyway all of those experiences Scott has
taught me the Holy Ghost really wants to be with us it is really hard to drive him away
he does not want to leave us really I know this about the Holy Ghost and by the by the
way the Holy Ghost is a real personage personage of spirit and I don't know if we want to get
into theological discussion of who the Holy Ghost is and his role but anyway you know
I think he appeared I think he's I I know he's a man and I believe he appeared to Nephi
in the first Nephi 11 chapter 11 I think it's verse 11 I think he appeared to John the Baptist
John the Mcconkey believed that so I think there have been actual people who have seen the personage
that we call the Holy Ghost who who chooses for whatever reason to remain nameless it's
a little bit of a title and some people think that different perhaps individuals or personages
of spirit have fulfilled fulfilled that role or have have been given that title or that
calling and then it isn't just one person I don't believe that I believe the Holy Ghost
is always been the Holy Ghost and will always be the Holy Ghost and even though Joseph Smith
prayed to know if the Holy Ghost would ever receive the body and to receive a body and
Heavenly Father told him that that wasn't for him to really know I believe that someday
he will get a body I believe the Holy Ghost is a I know he's a personage of spirit and
he chooses to sacrifice make the sacrifice of not having a body for now in in order to
be with us always and that he can dwell with us that he can dwell in us and that's another
philosophical discussion does he dwell with us or does he dwell in us we don't need to
focus on that because I don't think that's very important but anyway Scott I I know he
wants to be with us I know he wants to guide and direct us that's that's his role that's
his mission and Heavenly Father wants him to be and Heavenly Father has given him all
the power that he needs to be and the Atonement of Jesus Christ is has given him power and
and he administers that that that grace and mercy of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in
our lives continually that's what he wants to do Heavenly Father loves me I know that
because he gave me his son and he gave me the gift of the Holy Ghost Jesus Christ loves
me because he sacrificed his life for me and I know the Holy Ghost loved me because he
continues to sacrifice make personal sacrifice on his part by being with me always that's
the gospel Jesus Christ as I understand it Scott and it all comes down to our relationship
with the Father with the son and with the Holy Ghost it all comes down to relationships
and we're we're talking now in the course in our repentance and forgiveness course
we're talking really about how can I know that I'm forgiven and how can I have the power
to forgive myself and understanding the role of the Holy Ghost and recognizing and receiving
and responding to the gift of the Holy Ghost those three Rs that were given to us by Elder
Bednar years ago in a conference talk again that's receiving the Holy Ghost recognizing
the Holy Ghost and responding to the Holy Ghost understanding those three actions and
choices on our part are that's that's the key to really knowing that we're forgiven
and to have the power to forgive ourselves so let's talk about that Scott and what's
your thoughts on this subject I love that you talk about how we have the Holy Ghost
and how the making the Holy Ghost probably not the right way to put that but having the
Holy Ghost not be with us takes a lot of work I think that's kind of a maybe a shift in
a lot of our thinking Dave I think that a lot of us think and I know that I have thought
this and I still struggle maybe with this sometimes because I sometimes think well if
I do something that will offend the spirit then the Holy Ghost can't be with me and I'm
not talking about you know walking into a bar and drinking you know I'm talking about
having an attitude having a feeling having a say we're all human you know and I can sit
in my sacrament meeting and hear a testimony meeting and there can be something said and
or I can sit in a Sunday school class and there can be something said or I can that
just makes us I don't know maybe maybe rubs us the wrong way or what have you and Dave
when I when I have those feelings I feel like the spirit leaves me so maybe we could talk
about that a little bit more I don't I'm not sure what you mean by he can be with us and
it's harder for us to get for the for us to push the Holy Ghost away than it is to have
but maybe that's not exactly I think so much of that is not controlling our our minds and
our emotions Scott you know when when when fear sets into my heart it's hard for me to
feel the Holy Ghost right even though I believe he's still with me okay when when lust comes
into my heart it's hard for me to feel the Holy Ghost it's hard for me to recognize
him but I believe he's still with me there are so many things can connected to our our
mental and our emotional and our spiritual that and our physical really that if the physical
is off I mean in yeah right yeah absolutely certain imbalances the Holy Ghost may be with
you but you might not feel him right mentally if we're off that doesn't mean you don't have
the Holy Ghost even though you may not feel him mentally emotionally physically that always
affects whether we recognize the Holy Ghost or not but that doesn't mean he's not with
us I think you almost have to drive him out of your life for him to choose not to be with
us he is with us and I believe you have to really make some conscious evil choices to
get rid of him that's how I feel Scott I I sin and I I immediately repent and he's right
there I I know that the Holy Ghost is is my constant companion and I know that I've driven
him away before in my life but it's been a long time Scott since he hasn't been my companion
yeah I love that you you you put some emphasis on feeling you know feeling that because that's
how I would identify that's how I in the past have gauged it yeah you know and my president
to Packer you still we say that you know we don't it's not so much that we hearing but
more that we feeling but if we don't feeling can he still be with us and what I hear you
saying is that absolutely he can and not only can he but if we've been given the gift of
the Holy Ghost through proper authority through proper restored authority then he is our constant
companion and it is more difficult I have one of the reasons I bring this up David is
because I get this sometimes pretty frequently I mean it's not all that common but it's semi
frequent that I get this in our Institute class where there is just an awful lot of I
hesitate to use the word mental illness because it has such a stereotype attached to it that
I don't like but we all deal with certain things you know that are just not completely
put together just not completely right from a mental standpoint well I've had more than
one and probably more like more than five of my Deben mind students in our Institute
class who when we talk about the spirit when we talk about having the spirit who have enlightened
me a couple of them have said and that and independent of each other so maybe this is
something that's more well known than I thought it was but they keep a a journal and they
write down their experiences that they have with the Holy Ghost that that's stuff that
can help them remind help remind them and so what they because what they do is they're
dealing with mental situations conditions that make it more difficult for them to fill
the spirit and so if they write down these these they said spirit journal or Holy Ghost
journal it they hate to call it that but whatever it is where they're writing down these experiences
and then they can go back and refer to them and so it's not just a feeling it can be a
mental knowing it can be an experience outside of our feelings because they've a lot of us
are just really that the way we feel is different from others.
Yeah absolutely Scott so anyway I hope our listeners are not responding negatively to
what what we're saying and thinking well he's not always with me honestly Scott that kind
of thinking keeps one from feeling yeah the Holy Ghost because it takes faith it takes
faith and I have faith and faith and a firmness of mind to be able to receive recognize and
respond to the Holy Ghost it takes work it takes effort on our part he doesn't just come
and all of a sudden we're we know it honestly we have to play a role in this and he can't
force himself upon us and he won't for sure and so many times if we would just slow down
sometimes in our life in our daily life we need to find times in our life when we can
slow down and we can focus on spiritual things and if we would just be still a little more
still and and think about these things I know that individuals would be able to recognize
him more in their life yeah but but I believe Scott that I take it literally that the Holy
Ghost is our constant companion that's one of his titles he has a lot of other titles
constant companion is one of my favorites but another one of my favorites is that he's
a he's a testator he he testifies of the father he testifies of the son he testifies of the
plan of God he testifies of the atonement of Jesus Christ he is a teacher he teaches us
about all of these things he is a comforter he comforts us when when we're sad when we're
lonely when we're depressed he can comfort us that again may take effort on our part
he doesn't come and automatically override he doesn't necessarily he may he may at times
but normally it wouldn't be normal for him to override our what we have a choice in our
life to do and I know and we've said this often in this podcast I know we have more
choice and power over our thoughts and our emotions than we think we do and he won't override
that if we've chose to think negative thoughts if we've chosen to think faithless ideas and
thoughts if we have chosen to choose negative emotions and let negative emotions which are
always with us but which we can choose to overcome with love right perfect love cast
without all fear I think perfect love cast without all lust I believe perfect love cast
out all negative emotions and if we don't choose that and if we don't do our part he's
not going to choose to overwrite it so we have to do our part to feel the Holy Ghost
God it takes it takes mental exertion by the way which is another definition of faith in
the lectures on faith in the lectures on faith it says faith requires mental exertion it
takes great mental exertion on our part and it takes a really soft heart firm mind firm
mind soft heart in fact we let's read the scripture on firmness of mind and the love
of God and the connection between those two Scott it's in Jacob chapter 3 Jacob chapter
3 verses 1 and 2 I I think there's just so much instruction in this little passage I
mean Jacob is talking to those wives who have been abused and he's talking to those
who are pure in heart the wives of the Nephites who have become wicked and and this is what
he says to them so verses verses 1 and 2 Scott but behold I Jacob would speak unto you that
are pure in heart look unto God with firmness of mind so now notice this he's he's acknowledging
that they're pure in heart he's acknowledging that these are good people but what do they
lack they apparently are not very firm in their minds they're not very firm in their
minds which affects their faith firmness of mind and faith are also connected in the book
of Mormon in Alma 58 talking about the the stripling warriors of Heelman and it talks
about their faith and their firmness of mind it takes great faith Scott and firmness of
mind to be able to recognize the Holy Ghost in our lives and if people would just focus
on it more and and exercise their for their faith and mental exertion they would feel
so start start over sorry but behold I Jacob would speak unto you that are pure in heart
look unto God with firmness of mind and pray unto him with exceeding faith and he will
console you in your afflictions and he will plead your cause and send down justice upon
those who seek your destruction all you that are pure in heart lift up your heads and receive
the pleasing word of God and feast upon his love for you may if your minds are firm forever
finally there are so many members of the church who do not feast upon the love of God who
don't understand that God so loved the world he gave his only begotten son and they they
fell to recognize what God did for them because he loved them his infinite love for them and
they don't understand the love of Jesus Christ what he did just for them individually personally
I believe that's a lack of faith and a lack of firmness of mind Scott I I I know I've
just been so many wonderful Latter-day Saints I have known throughout my lifetime who live
the gospel who keeps the commandments who are covenant keeping true and faithful and
they they don't feel the love of God in their life and I just this is my this is the scripture
I always fell feel back I always fall back on this scripture then what is wrong with
their thinking what is wrong with their mind and their emotions what why is it I know they
have the Holy Ghost with them scoppin they don't feel him or maybe they occasionally
do and they've received a testimony there's there's lots of ways that we feel the Holy
Ghost and there's lots of gifts he offers us but I think the ultimate gifts God and
there's this really gets to the heart of our message today I think the ultimate gift that
we can receive from the gift of the Holy Ghost is the love of God and forgiveness of sin
and to know where we stand with the father and to have a relationship with him as a father
would as a child to father and to know of his love to feel his love that is the ultimate
gift and witness of the Holy Ghost is that God loves us so for people who don't experience
that I wonder what are they lacking in their firmness of their mind or what are they why
is it that their emotions will not allow them to feel the love of God and the gift of the
Holy Ghost in their life well I have two comments I have two thoughts around that question actually
so the first one is is first of all what do we mean by love of God you know when we talk
about the love of God do we have to feel the love of God is this a caloric burn within
us that we have to feel that love or can we see the love of God can we witness the love
of God and can we observe the love of God in our lives and in the lives of others and
can that be a feeling of his love you know that's the first thing that comes to my mind
is we just need to understand what we're talking about here and not get caught up in the emotional
approach to love I mean it can be important and it can be a manifestation of love but
you know the emotional approach here if we take a strictly an emotional approach and
I don't know all of the you know there's ethos and arrows there's all these different types
of loves and I and I'm not an expert can't even comment on those but there are different
types but if we understand that we're not just talking about an emotional experience
here that's number one number two is I have found Dave when I'm when I'm lacking in this
when I'm not feeling the love of God like I would like to like I would need to like
I should be I realize in those cases and it's almost every time and probably is every time
if I'm honest it's because my relationship with deity is out of whack it's not in line
you know you know it's that's got to be important that's got I have to do what's necessary for
me to maintain that relationship with it is and that's not on it's not unusual that's
not on that's not unfair even you know in my relationship with my sweet wife I work at
it every day yeah she works out harder than I do but I work at it every day and with my
relationship with my heavenly Father with Jesus through the with the with the spirit
of the Holy Ghost I need to be working on that every day as well it's true Scott and
yet I go back again I see their faces to people who who work at it who read their scriptures
who say their prayers who keep the commandments and they still don't know where they stand
with God yeah and they still don't know if God loves them and I think how have experiences
or abuse or manipulation or the world or the accuser Satan and others have worked upon
them and have so mentally piled up so much stuff in their mind and upon their life that
they can't see feel or understand the love of God and it just it it's heartbreaking
for me really and I think that again if one would really undertake to study what it what
is required of us and to really focus upon what can I do to fill the Holy Ghost in my
life and to seek to walk by the spirit as Paul says to live by the spirit to receive
the fruits of the spirit as described in Galatians chapter five of love and joy and peace if
if that would become one's focus is to be able to to recognize the Holy Ghost in their
life and receive the fruits of the Holy Ghost in their life they would discover in the in
the work that they need to control their thoughts and they need to control their emotions I know
everybody's probably tired of me harping on that but as a patriarch Scott as a patriarch
to be able to receive revelation I had to learn the first lesson I learned being a patriarch
and probably it has become the greatest lesson I have learned in my entire life is how our
emotions and our thoughts control our ability to receive revelation in our lives and to
receive recognize and respond to the Holy Ghost that that's just a in in convertible
fact they say it right probably in controversial in controversial fact that you can't change
that our our thoughts and our emotions control or somewhat determine I know you can't force
revelation you can't force it you can't manipulate it you can't demand it you can't control
the timing of it but I know Scott from experience many years of experience being a patriarch
that my emotions had to be in the right place I had to be filled with love and I had to
forgive others including myself I had to learn the have the faith of the power of the of
Christ through his atonement and and know that I was worthy enough even though I wasn't
sinless or perfect I was worthy enough that the Holy Ghost wanted to bless others through
me as a patriarch or others through me as a dad or others through me as a granddad or
others through me as a minister or friend or especially husband that if if if I do not
control my thoughts if I am weak mentally if something's not right if some if I have
some chemical imbalance if there are certain anxieties or fears or or troubles or thoughts
that I am obsessed with that are controlling me then I can't I'm not in a position where
I can really receive recognize and respond to the Holy Ghost and I think that that's
what I mean when I when I'm talking about establishing that relationship right in people
probably get tired of hearing this quote this scripture too but this is in Doctrine Covenants
36 36 looking to me in every thought takes a lot of work doubt not fear not takes a lot
of so what's the anecdote to doubt and fear looking under him that takes so much effort
and focus yeah and yet and it takes a lot of mental firmness okay which is true and
it does that's absolutely accurate but how do we do it it is it does take a lot of work
but the effort is less sometimes than we make it out well you don't do it just by going
with the flow no but this is how you do do it behold this is verse 37 the wounds which
pierced my side and also the Prince of the Nails in my feet hands and feet be faithful
keep my commandments and you shall inherit the kingdom of heaven so how do we do it we
go to where he was when he paid for all of this for us and that takes a great eye of
faith takes a great eye of faith Scott see yourself in Gethsemane and at the foot of
the cross and then we strive to be faithful in keeping his commandments why so that we
can have his spirit with us right we go back to the sacrament prayer we go back to you
know that we will always remember him that we will take his name upon us why that they
may always have his spirit to be with him that's why we do that you know every Sunday
we make that covenant and and I'm going to this today but there is a connection between
being willing to take upon yourself his name and receiving the Holy Ghost to always be
with us that's another that's maybe in the topic for another time but but going back
to this idea of look unto me in every thought doubt not fear not doubt not fear not Scott
right now not as mental right fear not fear not as emotional right if you don't control
your thoughts if you doubt if you don't control your emotions and you fear it's pretty hard
to put yourself at the foot of the cross or in Gethsemane and to hear the voice it is
of God through the Holy Ghost say you're forgiven I forgive you so it's not I love you yeah
so so maybe it's not an event maybe it's not a one and done type of for sure it's it's
you know maybe it's maybe it's I'm doubting and fearing today I need to look at him more
I can't look at him potentially in every thought but what if I look to me towards him in more
thoughts than I currently am and what if I make a little deeper it's driving it what
if I make just a little bit deeper effort it's driving to do we strive yeah you know
behold the wounds which pierce his side and also the Prince of the Nails and his hands
and his feet what if I just get a glimpse of that a little bit at a time and then at
some point in my progression then I feel the healing effects also the love the great deep
love and then also I can it because of the great love that I'm feeling now go back in
time and allow myself in that moment back in time to feel his love as well and heal
all that yeah well amen I love that all that but Scott there's there's a lot of there's
a lot of people with a lot of mental yeah I know and emotional challenges and I don't
want to discount those or to minimum minimize all of that and people should be using any
medication they possibly are prescribed by doctors to become more chemically balanced
people should receive the the help the inspired help of of hopefully inspired helpers and
others counselors therapists there are so many things that God has given us which which
people according to elder Hollins should see the the hand of God and and see these helpers
and medications and others as a gift from God as miracles in our life and people should
utilize those they're really instruments of grace they are yeah absolutely and so for
those who are listening I hope there's so many who take take medication and all of a
sudden they become kind of themselves and they can kind of feel love God and they think
they're okay and they stop taking their medication they feel what and they they don't understand
why they're so spiritually down and and mentally discouraged and depressed and there's holistic
Scott things I I'm a believer in that you know your grandmother derpy was a believer
in that you know there's so many holistic things that we should be doing to be to be
healthier to be more more receptive put ourselves in a position to to receive the Holy Ghost
in their lives I I mean it's it's a whole thing it's it's a balanced thing and they're
the physical and the mental and the emotional and even the social yeah all affects the spiritual
for one to be able to be spiritual and to feel the love of God and the Holy Ghost in
their life they need to make sure that their their life is balanced as a as a bishop in
Minnesota years ago we had this good member of the church faithful member of the church
psychiatrist from Chicago come and give us kind of a welfare session and counseling session
priesthood leaders and she came to Minnesota I remember and I'll never forget what she
taught us and her hypothesis was that if if people are off in any one area right physically
mentally emotionally socially if they weren't balanced if they did not have balance in their
life they could not receive the Holy Ghost to the extent that they might have received
it they can't you know that being balanced is so important if if somebody is off maybe
physically it can lead to depression if they're off mentally it can it can lead to physical
sickness you know the the mind's effect upon the body and and all of these things are connected
that it's all connected Scott and one must must see their life as a whole and work on
all of it but so many going back to Jacob so many of the pure in heart whose hearts are
right yeah can't feel the love of God because they don't receive the Holy Ghost because
they can't control their thoughts and their emotions firmness of mind firmness of mind
and we've been we've been commanded over and over over again I've 128 times what I counted
in the scriptures 128 times in the Old Testament New Testament in all the standard works to
fear not or to be not afraid that's not always a choice to begin with but it usually always
becomes a choice we can't control the fears or some of the negative emotions that we feel
we're we're natural man we're fallen we're just humans and sinners helping other humans
and sinners and and yet Scott we are free because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ to act and
not to be acted upon and you can't you can't stop negative emotions from coming into your
your mind or heart but you can replace them I testify I know that with prayer and with
faith and with effort that emotions and negative thoughts negative emotions irrational emotions
irrational thoughts can be replaced I know that if one will pray with all energy of heart
maron I 748 they can replace it with his love and when they have his love they will feel
his spirit and when they feel his spirit Scott they should immediately think of President
Irving's quote when we feel the Holy Ghost in our life we should understand that the
Atonement of Jesus Christ is working in our life so how do you feel forgiven how can we
forgive ourselves how can we feel the love of God honestly I this is it's simple but
it's not easy but the simple answer is receive recognize and respond to the Holy Ghost so
what can we do to receive the Holy Ghost and but there's so many scriptures on this God
that we don't necessarily go through need to go through and read them all but in in
second e5 31 17 we we learn that we receive a remission of sins not so much by the water
that we baptize people in it's by the reception of of the spirit the baptism of fire and the
Holy Ghost that brings a remission of sins right that's what brings a remission of sins
it's not doing the ordinances in the temple that bring a remission of sins God it's the
Holy Ghost by participating in the ordinances of the gospel that brings the remission of
sins the Holy Ghost is the sanctifier he is the justifier he is the agent of forgiveness
it is in him and through him and by him that we are forgiven of our sins God so in all
that we do in the church and trying in our best efforts to live the gospel Jesus Christ
it shouldn't be what am I doing it should be what can I do to qualify for the gift of
the Holy Ghost and what can I do to help others to qualify for the gift of the Holy Ghost
so that should be that should be more our focus in Alma 13 11 through 12 we learn that
he's our sanctifier that he's a sanctifier in 13 527 we learn again he's the agent of
forgiveness and I love in Moroni 6 4 that's kind of always been my go to scripture about
how to be forgiven how to recognize forgiven that it's not through our our merits but it's
only solely completely through the merits of Jesus Christ and we are cleansed by the power
and gift of the Holy Ghost I actually believe it's cleansed by the power of the Holy Ghost
because I believe Scott that there are many nonmembers who receive a forgiveness of sin
that's my opinion that's not church doctrine so I believe there are many who who can receive
the power of the Holy Ghost without having the gift of the Holy Ghost who can receive
blessings through the atonement of Jesus Christ in their life not just not just a testimony
I know friends that we teach we now call them friends not investigators which I like but
friends and investigators that that we've taught or who are being taught you know they
have the they they're entitled to the power of the Holy Ghost so that they can receive
a testimony and I also believe that they receive grace and mercy in their lives as well through
the power of the Holy Ghost ultimately it is through the gift of the Holy Ghost that
we receive the full effects of God's God's gifts his ordinances in the power of godliness
in our life so I want to read that that last scripture that you just referenced Moroni
six fours out okay yeah I love this scripture it was one of President Hinckley's favorite
yeah and the reason I want to read it is not just to you know add emphasis to what you
just said but to tie the relationship together and about relationships and you'll understand
you'll understand that at the very end of this verse now this is Moroni chapter six
verse four and after they had been received unto baptism and were wrought upon and cleansed
by the power of the Holy Ghost that's what you just referred to cleanse he's the cleanser
they were numbered among the people of the church of Christ and their names were taken
that they might be remembered and nourished by the good word of God to keep them in the
right way to keep them continually watchful unto prayer relying alone upon the merits
of Christ who was the author and the finisher of their faith that takes some furnace of
mind Scott and that's and that's the relationship component it's it's Christ's Christ's work
Christ's atonement administered and sanctified us through the Holy Ghost yeah thank you Scott
I love the way you said that and again I just I'm really emphasizing this for everyone because
of all those who I'm thinking about it requires firmness of mind it requires work it requires
effort yeah to be able to really recognize that it's not through our merits it's not
through my performance I can keep all the commandments and still go to hell it without
Jesus Christ I could keep all the commandments and I'd still go to hell but but really Scott
it takes faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement this is the doctrine of Christ Scott faith
in Jesus Christ in his atonement second repentance third baptism fourth the Holy Ghost and fifth
enduring to the end which president Elton I love his interpretation of enduring to the
end is participating in temple ordinances and other ordinances of the gospel so Scott
I've said three or four times it all comes down to relationships and we need to really
think about the relationships we have with the Godhead and we need to think about them
in his three separate beings right we need to see the father for who he really is in
our relationship with him as a child to a parent we need to really understand our relationship
with our heavenly father and we need to really understand our relationship with our savior
and redeemer Jesus Christ that he becomes our spiritual father or the father of our spiritual
lives the father of our salvation he is my elder brother in the premortal existence but
I feel closer to him when I see him as not just a brother but as a father of my salvation
that he was willing to die and that he purchased me with his blood and that I am his servant
I love that sort of relationship with the savior and then we need to understand and
seek to have a relationship with the Holy Ghost and he is the third member of the Godhead
we can have deity in our lives every day deity is with us Scott not just because my spirit
is divine or the source of heavenly parents but because I actually have a member of the
Godhead with me as my constant companion who is continually throughout the day delivering
grace and mercy and ministering the atonement of Jesus Christ in my life this is a sub-pernal
gift words of President Packard a sub-pernal gift of the gift of the Holy Ghost that we
have been given as members of the church and years ago Elder McConkey gave an unbelievable
powerful talk about our relationship with the Lord on March 2, 1982 BYU devotional and
I have always loved that talk and I won't go into the whole history of it or even the
outcomes or consequences of it which is another story for another time but but in the when
he when he gets near the end of the talk he says you know we really need a relationship
with all three we don't just need a relationship with God we need a relationship with God the
Father with God the Son and with God the Holy Ghost and then he kind of in my words this
what I got out of it paraphrase if you're going to air in a relationship with one of the three
then you probably should air in your relationship with the Holy Ghost because it's the Holy
Ghost that teaches us about the Father and it's the Holy Ghost that teaches us about
the Son and it's the Holy Ghost that testifies and ministers all of the gifts of God into
our lives so if you're going to air in a relationship with a member of the Godhead
work on your relationship with the Holy Ghost you don't hear that very often Scott we always
talk about a relationship with Jesus I mean that seems to get most the press right we
need a relationship with Jesus and we need a relationship with the Father who so loved
the world he see gave us Jesus and we need a relationship with the gift of the Holy Ghost
who teaches us about the Father and the Son and allows us to have a relationship with
them through the spirit I it's just so important that we do all that we can to make a study
of it I know we haven't talked necessarily about too much today maybe we should do this
next next podcast Scott let's talk about how can we get the Holy Ghost because there's
some great scriptures on that and let's let's do a study on how we can receive the Holy
Ghost in our life today I think we're just pretty much talking about the importance of
it right but but we can through our efforts there are things we can do that influence
his ability to not only be with us because I think he chooses to be with us not only
to be with us but our ability to recognize him right just in closing back in 1999 it
would have been 99 because October of 1998 when I got sober and this was the winter after
Christmas of 1999 so January I'm in a fireside and this fireside is for those who are struggling
or have been struggling with addiction it was put on by the then church program of addiction
recovery it's changed a little bit quite a bit actually since then but then that's what
it was and it was alcoholics and at drag addicts in this fireside and their family members
and one Jack our Christians and you may know him friend he was on our podcast and that
just a couple of months ago and anyway yeah and this was this was I heard him speak I
had the opportunity with him to speak at several subsequent firesides after I had you know
gotten a little further in the path but he said a couple of things in that fireside that
I will never forget one of the things that he said and I know he's not the originator
of this thought but I heard it from him and one of the things that he said is that when
we feel lonely and I take that to mean Dave when we feel lonely when we don't feel like
we're right when we don't feel the love of God when we don't feel like we matter in life
to anybody when we're feeling lonely now that's not actually how he put it he says if we will
strive to have the spirit in our lives we will never have to face loneliness alone and
that's so important to me you know because we talk about if we're going to strive to
have a relationship well how do we have a relationship with the Savior we have that
relationship with the Savior through the Holy Ghost how do we have a relationship with the
Father we have that also through the Holy Ghost so if we always want to feel the effects
of the atonement of Jesus Christ which is God's love if we want to feel the effects
which is actually God's love in our lives then we will strive to have the Holy Ghost
in our lives or to feel the Holy Ghost in our lives yeah I were to recognize the Holy
Ghost so maybe it may be an invitation Scott as we conclude for our for our listeners to
begin to ponder how can I we'll talk about this next week how can I begin to receive
recognize and respond more effectively to the gift of the Holy Ghost the supernal gift
of the Holy Ghost and I have always loved I this scripture is quite kind of mind boggling
to me Scott and I I remember when I first read this scripture actually it had a profound
effect on me then and it was actually right before my mission and it is when Jesus is
with his disciples and they are praying and he's praying and then they're praying to him
and we learn what they say to him and he says to the father father they're praying to me
because I am with them but of all of the things that they pray for it says that they prayed
for the thing which they most desired which was the gift of the Holy Ghost that's in
third Nephi chapter 19 Scott I can't remember the exact verse but they did pray it's in
verse 9 they did pray for that which they most desired and they desired that the Holy
Ghost should be given unto them why don't you repeat that reference just one more time
30 by 19 9 they did pray for that which they most desired is that what I most desire is
that what I pray for most is that the one thing in my prayers that I really don't neglect
in my prayers that I really in faith pray for I think if that's one one thing that we
can invite our listeners and ourselves Scott to do better at is to to recognize that of
all that we can desire from God in this life the greatest gift he has given us and the thing
that we should most desire is to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost in our life and and
through the power of prayer we can do that that among other things that we can do that's
one thing that we can begin to do now is to recognize him as the most important gift we
can receive and to pray in earnestness and in great faith for that and we will have a
divine invitation to do all that as the Sabbath rolls around in just a few days and we have
an opportunity to partake of the sacrament so let's make sure that as we're taking the
sacrament this week that this is on our mind that would as we covenant to always remember
him and and to take his name upon us that that as a result of that that we have been
promised that we will have his spirit to always be with us it's our prayer that we can recognize
that that we can do what we need to do to receive it and that we can respond to that
in a holier and higher way as we walk down this path of life thanks for being with us
we look forward to being with you again next week and until then be well.