1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,280 Hey there everybody welcome back to another episode of Redeem Through His Blood. 2 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,680 We've got Scott and David Durfey here today. 3 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:24,680 Yes we do. 4 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:25,680 As always, what's up Dave? 5 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:26,680 How are you? 6 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:27,680 I'm good. 7 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:35,240 Yeah we're just starting on summer months here in the northern hemisphere and we're 8 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,160 seeing a little lighter step. 9 00:00:38,160 --> 00:00:40,040 It's been a cold spring. 10 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:43,320 Spring and yeah it kind of has but you've been on the golf course plenty. 11 00:00:43,320 --> 00:00:48,520 I have but I am you know yesterday when I golfed it was the first day this spring I've 12 00:00:48,520 --> 00:00:49,880 worn shorts. 13 00:00:49,880 --> 00:00:50,880 Really? 14 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,880 Because because it was the first day that was over 80. 15 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:54,880 Yeah. 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:59,800 I'm kind of cold-blooded and I won't wear shorts unless it's at least 75 or higher. 17 00:00:59,800 --> 00:01:02,720 And it just hasn't been that all spring. 18 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:06,400 Well we will be looking back come August. 19 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:09,440 We'll be looking back and longing for these things I have. 20 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:12,000 True but it's kind of the way it works here. 21 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:16,720 But it's good that we're feeling the warmth of the sun. 22 00:01:16,720 --> 00:01:22,440 Up until now the sun has either been hidden by the clouds or it's just been a prop. 23 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:25,000 A prop. 24 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,000 I like that but it has been a prop. 25 00:01:27,000 --> 00:01:29,760 That's what they actually say at Minnesota Scott. 26 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:34,360 In Minnesota they say in Minnesota because it's so cold and the winters are beautiful 27 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:41,720 and the skies are so blue and the sun is so bright and shining and it's 20 below zero 28 00:01:41,720 --> 00:01:47,440 when chill 40 below and they say the sun is just a prop in Minnesota. 29 00:01:47,440 --> 00:01:52,880 When you first moved there I remember hearing about how cold it was and you were using terms 30 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,960 like 20 below and I think even once 40 below and maybe. 31 00:01:56,960 --> 00:01:58,680 Oh it got 54 below. 32 00:01:58,680 --> 00:02:00,680 And I think maybe that's what I remember. 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:01,680 That wasn't when chill. 34 00:02:01,680 --> 00:02:02,680 That was not when chill. 35 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,680 It was at 54 below and I hadn't been to Minnesota until I started traveling for work about 20 36 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:10,600 years ago and this was prior to that that you were making those comments. 37 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:16,560 And then I went to Minnesota and I was downtown Minneapolis and I loved the sky bridges. 38 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:18,560 Yeah they're awesome. 39 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:21,960 Yeah every so that's that's cool. 40 00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:28,240 All the major buildings and office buildings in downtown Minnesota you can walk miles downtown 41 00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:34,600 Minnesota in the winter on these sky bridges that and and every second floor so every 42 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:41,120 second floor of every major almost every major building in Minnesota has stores in it. 43 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:47,600 So it's a downtown mall but a high rise of maybe 70 story high rise office building. 44 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:54,280 Yeah but the second floor is a mall because people can go down there and walk all around 45 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:56,600 downtown Minnesota and never go outside. 46 00:02:56,600 --> 00:02:58,320 Which is amazing. 47 00:02:58,320 --> 00:03:01,400 I thought I thought whoever came up with this idea is incredible. 48 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:06,400 I noticed that too that there is like a full city mall right all the stores and there's 49 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:10,680 a lot of restaurants which was great for guys that are there on business. 50 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,200 And I thought that was ironic because then just down the street is the largest mall in 51 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:15,200 America. 52 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:16,720 Yeah all of America is the largest. 53 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:19,200 At least there was at the time. 54 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:20,200 I think it still is. 55 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,160 I think it still is in in United States. 56 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:27,360 Canada the same people that built the one in in Minneapolis. 57 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:29,680 It's actually in Bloomington Minnesota. 58 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:34,200 The same company that built that built one just a little bit larger in Canada just a 59 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,560 little bit because they're a Canadian company. 60 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:38,960 They wanted to just do outdo it. 61 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:43,360 Well that's anyway but Minnesota is such a great place to live and raise a family and 62 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:44,760 I'll bet you miss it. 63 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:45,760 I miss it. 64 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,920 Minnesota ice and Minnesota nice. 65 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:52,760 The people are so nice there. 66 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,840 Such a great great state anyway. 67 00:03:55,840 --> 00:04:01,480 We've spent the last three episodes talking about or maybe this will be the third but 68 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,760 talking about forgiveness as one of the manifestations of repentance. 69 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:12,560 We are getting towards the end of the course when we go through all of the steps and the 70 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:13,560 process. 71 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:18,320 Let's rephrase that the process of repentance and coming to our Savior Jesus Christ through 72 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:20,840 His Atonement. 73 00:04:20,840 --> 00:04:25,760 We learn about the fall and how that has affected and why that plays into all of this. 74 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,440 I look forward to talking more about that tonight even in Institute. 75 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:35,720 But as Deb and I teach it but tonight or today Dave I think we're going to talk about maybe 76 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:42,960 one more time about forgiveness, how that plays into all of this, all that we've been 77 00:04:42,960 --> 00:04:44,760 talking about why it's so important. 78 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:50,160 You made a comment to me earlier this morning that you taught this class for I don't know 79 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:51,640 a very very long time. 80 00:04:51,640 --> 00:04:53,440 First off you wrote the class. 81 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:55,440 You're the author of the class. 82 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:56,960 We'll help design the course. 83 00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:01,360 And then you taught it for many many years. 84 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:02,400 What did you tell me? 85 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:03,400 What was one of the... 86 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:05,760 It was really interesting to me. 87 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:11,240 It kind of caught me by surprise when I would sometimes ask students why did you take this 88 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:17,760 class and they would respond because I need to forgive somebody. 89 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,320 It wasn't so much that they connected... 90 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:22,320 We called it... 91 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:27,840 I wanted to call it infinite atonement but Elder Callister's book had just come out and 92 00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:34,680 the church didn't want to have the course be connected to a book that wasn't written 93 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:36,680 by the church. 94 00:05:36,680 --> 00:05:39,120 So they wouldn't let me call it infinite atonement. 95 00:05:39,120 --> 00:05:41,920 That's what I wanted to title the course. 96 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:47,520 So they suggested that I title the course repentance and forgiveness. 97 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:48,520 So that's what the... 98 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:54,160 It's now called the divine gift of forgiveness and it is after Elder Anderson's book which 99 00:05:54,160 --> 00:06:02,480 is awesome that the church feels comfortable that it can be titled after the book. 100 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:08,920 But when it's titled repentance and forgiveness students focused on the forgiveness part and 101 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:13,520 they didn't focus so much on personal forgiveness as they did. 102 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:17,520 Yeah, there's a lot of people I really need to forgive. 103 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:22,760 And that's okay because it's such an important part of the process really is that if you 104 00:06:22,760 --> 00:06:28,320 do forgive I'll forgive you the Lord has said and if you don't forgive I won't forgive you. 105 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:35,520 So that's okay but that was just surprising to me how many people and these are young 106 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:45,160 adults are still wrestling, striving, working to forgive others and who need help with that, 107 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:49,040 who feel that they actually need help with that. 108 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:55,320 So it's such an important part Scott because I really take it pretty literally that if 109 00:06:55,320 --> 00:07:00,680 we're not able to forgive others the Lord is not able to forgive us. 110 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:07,720 And I think it's not that he's not able but that as long as we hold grudges, as long as 111 00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:16,160 we feel contention, as long as we don't forgive others I think it's really hard if not impossible 112 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,080 to forgive ourselves. 113 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:24,520 Because if you're not a forgiving person then you're not going to forgive yourself. 114 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:34,120 So it's just really critical that we see forgiving others including ourselves as an important 115 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,560 part of repentance. 116 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:43,160 And again I think it's more of a manifestation maybe that we have cried out to God, that 117 00:07:43,160 --> 00:07:50,240 we have exercised our faith in Jesus Christ, that we have offered our sins to him, that 118 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:56,960 we have gone to him with a broken heart, that's kind of the core of repentance and then to 119 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:02,120 be able to forgive others including ourselves is kind of the evidence or the manifestation 120 00:08:02,120 --> 00:08:03,360 of it. 121 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:10,200 And I really do love since I brought up Elder Callister's book I really did love reading 122 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:15,680 that I'm marking in I read it a couple times, recommend it to others. 123 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:21,880 And there's a statement in there in the chapter I think on forgiveness and forgiving others 124 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:25,880 and he says it's a quote from Elder Callister. 125 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:34,760 As our understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ increases our ability to forgive ourselves 126 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,560 and others increases. 127 00:08:38,560 --> 00:08:44,640 I'm sure we've said that before I just really hope people will pause just a moment and think 128 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,480 about why is that. 129 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,720 Read that one more time. 130 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:55,680 As our understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ increases our ability and maybe even 131 00:08:55,680 --> 00:09:05,080 our willingness to forgive ourselves and others increases. 132 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:07,680 I know that's true from personal experience Scott. 133 00:09:07,680 --> 00:09:11,680 I know that it's been in my life. 134 00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:13,000 I've been offended. 135 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:15,960 I've been hurt. 136 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:22,120 We've all been in some ways sinned against some of us abused and and when you begin to 137 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:31,200 really understand what the atonement of Jesus Christ covers what it actually is what he actually 138 00:09:31,200 --> 00:09:39,000 did and how to access the power of Christ through his atonement in our life. 139 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:48,160 It is so much I won't say necessarily easier but it's so much more effective in being able 140 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:56,680 to forgive others and ourselves and I always I just this was always a part of my PowerPoint 141 00:09:56,680 --> 00:09:58,760 in my in my course. 142 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:04,040 God I was going to read this from my PowerPoint and this may be an elder Anderson's book. 143 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:13,280 I'm not sure I titled it the efficacy and power of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 144 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:18,240 Christ not only paid for all the sins of all the world. 145 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:27,560 He also suffered for all the consequences of all the sin of all the world through Christ's 146 00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:29,080 atonement. 147 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:38,200 Sinners may receive divine forgiveness from God if they repent and victims may receive 148 00:10:38,200 --> 00:10:45,720 compensatory blessings from God if they forgive. 149 00:10:45,720 --> 00:10:49,520 So how important is it for us to forgive? 150 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:57,760 Being as critical forgiving others is critical to receiving the compensatory powers the enabling 151 00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:02,440 powers and redemptive powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. 152 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:09,800 And then I wrote therefore if we do not repent of our sins or forgive others we either lack 153 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:20,480 adequate faith in appreciation for or understanding of Jesus Christ in his atonement. 154 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:28,600 We may even make a mockery of it by not forgiving ourselves and others. 155 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:32,400 I just think that's really critical to think about that. 156 00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:40,360 We may even be making a mockery of it by not forgiving ourselves and others. 157 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:49,200 So I just think this is such an important topic for us to spend a little more time on 158 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:50,200 Scott. 159 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:55,480 There's a phrase in the Doctrine and Covenants called grace for grace. 160 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:56,960 You shall receive. 161 00:11:56,960 --> 00:11:59,080 It's a promise really. 162 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:02,080 This is Doctrine and Covenants section 93 verse 20. 163 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:05,960 You shall receive grace for grace. 164 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:14,520 I've often wondered and pondered, meditated to what that means. 165 00:12:14,520 --> 00:12:16,760 Grace for grace. 166 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:24,120 I know we've talked about instruments of grace that as we do things that bless others as 167 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:26,960 we serve others. 168 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:36,720 In this case as we forgive others, as we give grace, as we offer grace, it is not just a 169 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:44,200 gift that comes to us but is more natural for us to give grace to ourselves. 170 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:52,760 People that cannot give mercy and grace to others usually lack that ability to offer 171 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,760 it to themselves. 172 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:55,560 That's not always true. 173 00:12:55,560 --> 00:13:01,480 I know there are some people that think that they're totally innocent and they hate everybody. 174 00:13:01,480 --> 00:13:02,600 There's exceptions to that. 175 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:14,760 I know but for most of us as we serve, bless, forgive others, we feel more grace in our life. 176 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:20,120 So I've always loved that concept and that promise given by the Lord and the Doctrine 177 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:30,040 and Covenants and there's just one more point that I think was amazing when I heard this, 178 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:31,040 watched this. 179 00:13:31,040 --> 00:13:33,280 This was Elder Razzband. 180 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,080 This is not the apostle Elder Razzband. 181 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:43,180 This is Elder James R Razzband of the 70 and I don't think they're related but I love 182 00:13:43,180 --> 00:13:45,480 Elder Razzband when I was in the stake presidency. 183 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:52,720 He came to our stake and I spent some time with him and he was an area 70 before he was 184 00:13:52,720 --> 00:13:54,720 a general authority 70. 185 00:13:54,720 --> 00:13:56,640 I have a lot of respect for him. 186 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:03,760 Very humble man, former professor of law, BYU. 187 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:10,880 I just want to read this if that's okay from a devotional that he gave. 188 00:14:10,880 --> 00:14:18,560 Why is it that we sometimes have trouble accepting Christ's Atonement as recompense for the harms 189 00:14:18,560 --> 00:14:20,640 we suffer at other hands? 190 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,040 He asks, the Atonement has two sides. 191 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:32,760 One first because of Christ's Atonement, mercy can satisfy the demands that justice would 192 00:14:32,760 --> 00:14:35,320 impose upon us. 193 00:14:35,320 --> 00:14:40,240 We are typically quicker to accept this side of the Atonement. 194 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:45,560 The idea that when we sin and make mistakes, the Atonement of Christ is available to pay 195 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,560 our debts. 196 00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:52,520 But second, there's a second side to Christ's Atonement. 197 00:14:52,520 --> 00:14:59,480 Christ's Atonement also satisfies our demands of justice against others to fulfill our rights 198 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:04,020 to restitution and being made whole. 199 00:15:04,020 --> 00:15:06,760 We often don't quite see this side of the Atonement. 200 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:11,880 How it satisfies our own demands for justice. 201 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:13,480 Yet it does so. 202 00:15:13,480 --> 00:15:19,920 The Atonement heals us not only from the guilt we suffer when we sin, but the Atonement of 203 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:29,840 Jesus Christ also heals us from the sins and hurts and abuse, we could add, of others. 204 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:38,280 Faith in Christ and His Atonement must include both His power to pay for our sins and His 205 00:15:38,280 --> 00:15:42,360 power to pay for the sins of others. 206 00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,680 If it's an infinite Atonement, Scott, just think about that. 207 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:51,840 If we really understand the Atonement, our ability, our willingness to forgive will increase. 208 00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:59,640 And then he concludes, and this is from a BYU devotional back in October of 2012. 209 00:15:59,640 --> 00:16:07,200 The Razband writes, It is critical to understand that forgiving others is not just a practical 210 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,000 virtue. 211 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:16,720 It is a profound act of faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the promise that the Savior 212 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:26,960 sacrifice repays not just our debts to others, but also the debts of others to us. 213 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:32,080 This does not mean minimizing the sin. 214 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:41,320 It means maximizing our faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 215 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:48,360 Or I would say faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement. 216 00:16:48,360 --> 00:16:50,880 So I know that's true. 217 00:16:50,880 --> 00:16:54,160 I just I really appreciate those ideas. 218 00:16:54,160 --> 00:16:59,880 And again, I should have been prepared to give people just look up Elder Razband's General 219 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:01,080 Conference talk. 220 00:17:01,080 --> 00:17:11,640 He kind of talks about that and talks about how the Savior's Atonement helps us make restitution 221 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:23,400 and how through our Savior we can have the power to forgive others and ourselves. 222 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:27,520 So something to go on from there. 223 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:35,640 When we're talking about forgiving others, and I love that quote, forgiveness doesn't 224 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:37,520 mean minimizing the sin. 225 00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:42,920 It just it means maximizing our faith in Jesus Christ and His Atonement. 226 00:17:42,920 --> 00:17:50,400 I love that because when we talk about faith, when we talk about faith in Jesus Christ and 227 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:55,320 faith unto repentance and all that, there's a power that comes through that faith. 228 00:17:55,320 --> 00:18:00,000 There's a power of faith when we get to certain levels of faith. 229 00:18:00,000 --> 00:18:03,360 And that power is really required. 230 00:18:03,360 --> 00:18:11,360 That faith of power is really sometimes required when it comes to forgiving others, Dave. 231 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:18,440 And when we talk about I don't know how to articulate this best, but I'm going to try. 232 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:25,080 When I think about how I've been sinned against and I have as have we all, I think about how 233 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,760 I've been sinned against and some of those things has been difficult for me to extend 234 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,240 forgiveness. 235 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:38,360 And I know that I've sinned against others and it's been difficult for others to extend 236 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:40,320 me forgiveness. 237 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:44,560 But when we talk about repentance and when we've done this over the last couple of weeks, 238 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:50,600 in fact, we've done this over the entirety of the podcasts that we've recorded here. 239 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:56,720 But when we talk about repentance, what we're really talking about is taking upon us Jesus 240 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:58,560 Christ becoming like Him. 241 00:18:58,560 --> 00:18:59,560 Come unto me. 242 00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:05,000 We talked I think last week that repentance is just an invitation to come to me, to be 243 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,840 like me, to take my oak upon you, but to be like me. 244 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:15,920 And that's one of the in Matthew 548, we know when he says be there for perfect or complete. 245 00:19:15,920 --> 00:19:21,440 Even as I or your Father in heaven is this is one of the areas that in my estimation 246 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,400 can be a big stumbling block for us to becoming like Him. 247 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:26,640 We know He did. 248 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:28,000 We know that He forgave. 249 00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,000 He forgave the vilest of sinners. 250 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:31,200 Those who killed Him. 251 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:35,540 Those who spat on Him and many, many, many others. 252 00:19:35,540 --> 00:19:41,200 And so as we become like Him, as we strive to become more like Him through our deep love 253 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:49,280 and devotion to Him, these things that are sometimes really difficult for us to embrace 254 00:19:49,280 --> 00:19:57,720 and engage in and participate in can become a little lighter to do if we are truly aligned 255 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,320 with Jesus Christ and His Atonement for us. 256 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:06,600 So it's even through the Atonement that our ability to forgive, it's even through Christ's 257 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:12,400 Atonement that our ability to forgive others is actually even made possible. 258 00:20:12,400 --> 00:20:14,640 Absolutely, Scott. 259 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:21,880 And you kind of touched on this, but any any false ideas, perceptions, beliefs that we 260 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:33,720 have in regards to perfectionism or in a legalistic mindset where we where we think that they 261 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:34,720 owe it to me. 262 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:41,440 They, you know, I for an eye, I for two for two balance the skills of justice. 263 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:51,720 To have a legalistic view of the world and really keeps us from exercising as completely 264 00:20:51,720 --> 00:21:00,880 as we should our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and off and extending mercy and grace to others 265 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:06,960 as well as believing in perfectionism. 266 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:13,960 That holds us back, but it also puts a pretty high standard on others, which which causes 267 00:21:13,960 --> 00:21:19,400 us great resentment and contention oftentimes. 268 00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:26,640 So you know, false, false ideas, philosophies, perceptions that we that we carry throughout 269 00:21:26,640 --> 00:21:31,000 our life and many of these have been learned from our parents. 270 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:38,920 Many of these are generational blind spots that we have, Scott, that we need to be able 271 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:46,480 to recognize, kind of bring bring them out into the sunlight and and really kind of break 272 00:21:46,480 --> 00:21:53,840 those down and and see see things the way God sees them. 273 00:21:53,840 --> 00:22:02,520 I I really feel sorry for those who are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day 274 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,600 Saints who still believe in I for an eye and a tooth for tooth. 275 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,800 I mean, the law of Moses was fulfilled. 276 00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,800 The law of Moses has been replaced. 277 00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:21,200 In his sermon on the Mount, I mean the greatest sermon we all, you know, we all know that 278 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:23,160 that was the greatest sermon ever given. 279 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:29,720 And one reason we know that's because he not only gave it in the old world in Jerusalem. 280 00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,080 Well, you didn't give it in Jerusalem. 281 00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:38,400 He gave it in Galilee, but he repeats it to the people in the Americas. 282 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:47,520 For some some significant changes, it's recorded in the Book of Mormon and and I that's an 283 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:51,840 amazing that's an amazing three chapters in the Book of Mormon, three chapters in the 284 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,840 Bible in Matthew five through seven. 285 00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:59,440 And he says, you know, it's it's been said of old I for an eye, tooth for tooth has been 286 00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:02,960 said of old that you do this or you do that. 287 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:10,040 What I say unto you, turn the other cheek, if a man takes your coat, give him your cloak 288 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,040 also. 289 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:20,600 I mean, the law of the gospel of Jesus Christ God is the perception that's the philosophy 290 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:24,040 that we all need to adopt in practice. 291 00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,360 It's a higher law. 292 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:27,840 It's a higher it's a holier way. 293 00:23:27,840 --> 00:23:34,800 And there's just still too many people in the world today who call themselves Christians 294 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,400 who are stuck in the Old Testament and who are demanding an eye for an eye and a tooth 295 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,040 for a tooth. 296 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:44,240 But that's not the gospel of Jesus Christ. 297 00:23:44,240 --> 00:23:51,320 There's I'm not I'm not giving any political statement here, but there's just way too 298 00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:53,920 much of that in politics. 299 00:23:53,920 --> 00:24:04,720 There's way too much of that on television and legal legal suing them suing him suing 300 00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:05,720 her. 301 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:07,960 I'm not I'm not making the same there. 302 00:24:07,960 --> 00:24:09,760 I'm not saying you should or you shouldn't. 303 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:21,440 But I think one really needs to just evaluate their motives and and make room for grace and 304 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:24,520 for mercy. 305 00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:28,000 So you're right about that, Scott. 306 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:31,800 There's there's things that we need to kind of change our world view on. 307 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:36,200 I don't think we said this maybe as strongly as Elder Holland said it. 308 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:41,800 I think we touched on this, but there's another aspect to forgiving that I I hope all of our 309 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,240 listeners will understand. 310 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:50,800 And this comes from a conference talk in October 2018, Elder Holland. 311 00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:56,000 Elder Holland wrote, forgive and ye shall be forgiven. 312 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,760 Christ taught that in the New Testament. 313 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:06,080 And in our day, quote, I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it is required 314 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:08,160 to forgive all men. 315 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,440 That's in doctrine covenant section 64. 316 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:19,400 Then he says Elder Holland, it is however important for some of you living in real anguish to 317 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,920 note what he did not say. 318 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:30,440 He did not say you are not allowed to feel true pain or real sorrow from the shattering 319 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:35,440 experiences you have had at the hand of another. 320 00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:43,760 Nor did he say in order to forgive fully, you have to re enter a toxic relationship or return 321 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,880 to an abusive destructive circumstance. 322 00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:55,480 But not withstanding, even the most terrible offenses that might come to us, we can rise 323 00:25:55,480 --> 00:26:03,160 above our pain only when we put our feet onto the path of true healing. 324 00:26:03,160 --> 00:26:09,680 That path is the forgiving one walked by Jesus of Nazareth. 325 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:10,680 Well I love that. 326 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:15,480 So I hope all of our listeners understand that forgiving doesn't mean that you don't 327 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,400 feel some pain. 328 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:23,080 I do love what Elder Anderson wrote in his book, the Divine Gift of Forgiveness. 329 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:29,640 And one of the definitions he gave of forgiveness is that it's not forgetting the sin or the 330 00:26:29,640 --> 00:26:32,240 abuse that was committed against us. 331 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:36,040 I think God blesses us to not forget it. 332 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:42,560 So I would say forgiving is not forgetting because I think it's a great blessing and protection 333 00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,240 to us that we not forget. 334 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:52,200 And Elder Anderson wrote forgiving is remembering with peace. 335 00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:58,320 Now I know you can't think back upon your experiences that you've had and feel peace. 336 00:26:58,320 --> 00:27:06,440 But when you think about the individuals or when you think of others who have perhaps 337 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:15,440 been perpetrators against you, you can let it go and know that God is a God of not only 338 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:23,800 mercy but a God of justice and that all judgment the Father has given to Jesus Christ and that 339 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,560 justice will be done and carried out. 340 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:31,240 And God is the God of justice. 341 00:27:31,240 --> 00:27:36,840 We're not necessarily the ones who have the assignment or responsibility to make sure 342 00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,120 that that's carried out. 343 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:47,240 Even though one should not ignore the laws of the land and when certain sins have been 344 00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:53,240 committed or certain criminal acts have been committed, certainly those should be reported 345 00:27:53,240 --> 00:28:01,960 and those individuals should face the consequences of perhaps the law of the land in which they 346 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:02,960 live. 347 00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:12,440 So, Scott, some things to think about in regards to forgiving others as we kind of wind that 348 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,440 part of this up. 349 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:19,280 I think I'll just end my contribution to this with this, Dave. 350 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:20,280 It's not easy. 351 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:27,120 You know, I know that forgiving others can be a big, inseamingly insurmountable task 352 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:29,560 sometimes and with great reason. 353 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:34,360 You know, in Alcoholics Anonymous and the other recovery programs, and I've mentioned 354 00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:39,160 this before, when we're talking about not being able to forgive somebody, what we're 355 00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:41,560 really talking about in a word is a resentment. 356 00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:45,840 A resentment is something that stops us from forgiving others. 357 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:50,600 And we have a resentment and we fan the flame of that resentment sometimes because we need 358 00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:57,680 justification and our inadequacies or our own failures in life, et cetera. 359 00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,960 And in the big book of Alcoholics Anonymous, there's a story towards the very end of the 360 00:29:01,960 --> 00:29:07,120 book that talks about a person who is dealing with a major resentment. 361 00:29:07,120 --> 00:29:13,480 And I'm not going to get into any more detail really than that, except for that, I guess 362 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,120 I will say this, the resentment was against a mother. 363 00:29:17,120 --> 00:29:20,080 And in fact, I'll read this paragraph. 364 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,320 This resentment was against my mother and it was 25 years old. 365 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:28,360 I had fed it, fanned it, and nurtured it, and it had become as much a part of me as 366 00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:29,520 breathing. 367 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:34,560 It had provided me with excuses for my lack of education, my marital failures, personal 368 00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:38,280 failures, inadequacy, and of course, my alcoholism. 369 00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:45,000 And though I really thought I had been willing to part with it, now I knew I was reluctant 370 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:46,000 to let it go. 371 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:51,600 I used to in the hospital, I'll just kind of skip ahead and somebody comes in and talks 372 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,440 to him and this is what was said. 373 00:29:54,440 --> 00:29:59,600 If you have a resentment and you want to be free of it, if you will pray for the person 374 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,120 or the thing that you resent, you will be free. 375 00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:08,040 If you will ask in prayer for everything you want for yourself to be given to them, you 376 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:09,480 will be free. 377 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,760 Ask for their help, their prosperity, their happiness, and you will be free. 378 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,800 And you will realize that where you used to feel bitterness and resentment and hatred, 379 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:23,000 you now feel compassionate, understanding, and love. 380 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:31,840 You know, the principles for recovery were taken from Matthew 5, chapter 5 through 7. 381 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:35,640 They were taken from the Beatitudes, the Sermon on the Mount. 382 00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:40,800 And right there in Matthew 5, 43, it hath been said that thou shalt love thy neighbor 383 00:30:40,800 --> 00:30:41,800 and hate thy enemy. 384 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:46,640 But I say unto you, love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate 385 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,600 you and pray for them, which despitefully use you and persecute you. 386 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:53,400 I don't know if you've ever tried doing that. 387 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,160 But that's not an easy task. 388 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:01,800 You know, that is a very, in and of ourselves and by our own power, that's a very difficult 389 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:02,800 task. 390 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:04,480 And it's not a suggestion. 391 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,160 That's right. 392 00:31:06,160 --> 00:31:08,000 You know, that's a commandment. 393 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:09,280 That's right. 394 00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:11,720 And not easy to do. 395 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:14,320 And it may take time to do it. 396 00:31:14,320 --> 00:31:15,320 But we have time. 397 00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:16,320 But we have time. 398 00:31:16,320 --> 00:31:19,880 I think you're touching on something else, Scott. 399 00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:30,880 And that that is that just as our faith in Jesus Christ is a gift of the Spirit. 400 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:39,640 It's also true that our ability, willingness to forgive others is a gift. 401 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,400 It's not something we just do on our own. 402 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,160 It's not something that we just make up our mind to do it. 403 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:54,200 It comes as a gift from the Holy Ghost as we understand Jesus Christ and his Atonement, 404 00:31:54,200 --> 00:32:00,720 what it covers, how it covers me, how it covers them and how it covers all of the evils. 405 00:32:00,720 --> 00:32:02,520 And sins. 406 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:08,960 I think we've heard all of us, most of us have heard stories of individuals who have 407 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:13,760 really suffered some terrible things at the hands of others. 408 00:32:13,760 --> 00:32:20,440 And what has helped them forgive others is to sometimes go to the individual or communicate 409 00:32:20,440 --> 00:32:24,880 with the individual if you can't if you can't go be with them. 410 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,400 And that's understandable in some cases. 411 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:33,520 But to communicate to some individuals that I hope that you'll forgive me because of the 412 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,200 feelings that I've had towards you. 413 00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:50,760 I mean, I think sometimes we become guilty of what's what's the word, Scott, of perpetuating 414 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,800 the sin by not forgiving others. 415 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:59,880 And as long as we don't forgive others and the sins of others continue to cause us to 416 00:32:59,880 --> 00:33:09,200 lose peace, to cause us to affect our relationship with God or our relationship with others, 417 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:16,080 then we become, I mean, it's just so I think one of the most sickening statistics that 418 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:21,000 we read about is that abusers abuse others. 419 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:26,880 I mean, that's just well, I think what you meant is up with that those who are abused. 420 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:27,880 Yeah, I'm sorry. 421 00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:29,680 Yeah, so those who are abused. 422 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:31,840 Yeah, it's pretty typical that abusers. 423 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:32,840 Others. 424 00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,800 I what's up with that? 425 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:35,800 Yeah. 426 00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:43,520 And I think part of that is that they never work through forgiving their abuser and the 427 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:51,120 atonement of Jesus Christ, the gift of forgiveness and the atonement of Jesus Christ has never 428 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,800 really kicked in or become a part of their life. 429 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:59,080 And therefore they perpetuate it. 430 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,240 So it's just so critical that we we learn how to forgive others. 431 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:09,200 And there's a story that we've told and I think we probably should probably tell it 432 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:10,200 again today. 433 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:11,200 Corey Temboom. 434 00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:12,200 Do you want? 435 00:34:12,200 --> 00:34:13,200 Yeah. 436 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:14,200 Do you want to kind of recap? 437 00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,240 Do you have a children's book? 438 00:34:17,240 --> 00:34:18,560 Right here. 439 00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,200 So I just I don't want to just tell it. 440 00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:26,920 I think it's worth actually quoting a line from the from the book. 441 00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:32,760 And this is based on her experience in the prison camp with her sister. 442 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:40,560 I think she had like four members of her family die at the hands of of the Nazis and how she 443 00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:45,400 was able to forgive and this is a story that was actually if you want to read more about 444 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:50,960 this, you can you can definitely read the book, which is called The Hiding Place, which 445 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:52,120 is an amazing book. 446 00:34:52,120 --> 00:34:56,440 I love reading that book and then recommend it to all of you if you haven't read The 447 00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,880 Hiding Place by Corey Temboom. 448 00:34:59,880 --> 00:35:06,760 But Bishop Keith McMullen told this story in General Conference in in April 2010 and 449 00:35:06,760 --> 00:35:13,480 Elder Anderson chose to quote from that in in the book. 450 00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:22,480 So Corey survives a prison camp or sister or best friend and sister does not and other 451 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:30,320 family members are are killed and die in the atrocities of the gas chambers and prison 452 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:34,640 camps of Germany. 453 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:39,680 So Corey Temboom, what page on this is page 230. 454 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:45,240 OK, the story is told on 229 and 230. 455 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:51,960 She's she's actually in Ravensbrook and she's she gives us talk at a church and she's talking 456 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:57,360 to them about how Jesus, you know, helps them and help them in the prison. 457 00:35:57,360 --> 00:36:03,760 Now this was many years after the release and the end of World War two and all of that. 458 00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:09,840 She's going around giving giving talks about this and in all in many Christian churches, 459 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:16,600 she even comes over the United States and talks about this Scott and how horrific the 460 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:25,560 suffering was and how through Christ she was able to to find peace and to and to be forgiven. 461 00:36:25,560 --> 00:36:29,560 And so let me start maybe paragraph before in Ravensbrook. 462 00:36:29,560 --> 00:36:34,480 She and Betsy, that's her sister, learn that God helps us to forgive. 463 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,600 Following the war, Corey was determined to share this message. 464 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:41,960 And on one occasion, she had just spoken to a group of people in Germany suffering from 465 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:44,400 the ravages of war. 466 00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,880 Her message was God forgives. 467 00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:53,240 It was then that Corey Temboom's faithfulness brought forth its blessing. 468 00:36:53,240 --> 00:36:59,440 A man approached her, she recognized him as one of the cruelest, meanest guards in the 469 00:36:59,440 --> 00:37:01,400 camp. 470 00:37:01,400 --> 00:37:05,720 And he said to her, you mentioned Ravensbrook in your talk. 471 00:37:05,720 --> 00:37:08,920 He said, I was a guard there. 472 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:13,000 But since that time, I have become a Christian. 473 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:17,360 He explained that he had sought forgiveness for the cruel things he had done. 474 00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:26,360 He extended his hands, his hand, and asked Corey, will you forgive me? 475 00:37:26,360 --> 00:37:34,720 Corey then said, quote, it could not have been many seconds that he stood there. 476 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:36,920 Hand held out. 477 00:37:36,920 --> 00:37:43,440 But to me, it seemed ours as I wrestled with the most difficult thing I had ever had to 478 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:45,200 do. 479 00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:55,520 The message that God forgives has a condition that we forgive those who have injured us. 480 00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,880 Help me, I prayed silently. 481 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,080 I can lift my hand. 482 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,480 I can do that much. 483 00:38:03,480 --> 00:38:09,320 But God, you have to supply the feeling. 484 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:18,880 Suddenly, mechanically, I forced and thrust my hand into the one stretched out to me. 485 00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:23,000 As I did, an incredible thing took place. 486 00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:27,320 The current started in my shoulder like an electrical current. 487 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,380 It started in my shoulder. 488 00:38:29,380 --> 00:38:31,380 It raised down my arm. 489 00:38:31,380 --> 00:38:35,040 It sprang into our joined hands. 490 00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:41,640 And then this healing warmth seemed to flood over my whole being, bringing tears to my 491 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:42,640 eyes. 492 00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:50,440 I forgive you, brother, I cried, with all my heart. 493 00:38:50,440 --> 00:38:57,640 For a long moment, we grasped each other's hands, the former cruel guard and the former 494 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:58,640 prisoner. 495 00:38:58,640 --> 00:39:08,760 I had never known God's love as intensely as I did then. 496 00:39:08,760 --> 00:39:16,440 I love that that she explains or she expresses how she had never felt God's love more intensely 497 00:39:16,440 --> 00:39:19,880 than she did in her moment of forgiveness. 498 00:39:19,880 --> 00:39:23,320 I wonder if that's if that's an experience that we can all have. 499 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:25,320 Yeah, you know, she could. 500 00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:26,320 Why can't we? 501 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:31,120 It's a gift, the point of that story, really, that the ability to forgive others doesn't 502 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,760 come from you or me. 503 00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,640 It comes as a gift from the Holy Spirit. 504 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:41,920 But that gives only available to us after we've recognized that we need to that it's important 505 00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:44,000 that it's available to us. 506 00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:46,200 I think it takes as much. 507 00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:47,320 I know it does. 508 00:39:47,320 --> 00:39:55,200 I know it takes as much faith in Jesus Christ and his Atonement to forgive others, God, as 509 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,440 it does for us to be forgiven. 510 00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:03,320 I love this scripture in D&C 8833. 511 00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:08,600 For what doth that prophet a man, if the gift is bestowed upon him and he received not the 512 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:15,440 gift, be healed he rejoices not in that which is given unto him, neither rejoices in him 513 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,520 who is the giver of the gift. 514 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:21,360 Yeah, yeah, it is a gift and that gift has to come to us. 515 00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:27,680 But that gift is only available to us through our alignment and to not receive it. 516 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:35,600 Yeah, is also a rejection of the giver of the gift and his Atonement. 517 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:36,600 Something to think about. 518 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:40,880 You know, Scott, the Prophet Joseph Smith wrote in the teachings of the Prophet Joseph 519 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:49,200 Smith, the near we get to our Heavenly Father, the more we are disposed to look with compassion 520 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:52,560 upon perishing souls. 521 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:59,480 We feel that we want to take them upon our shoulders and cast their sins behind our backs. 522 00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:06,680 If you would have God to have mercy on you, have mercy on one another. 523 00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:12,860 I love that the closer the nearer, the closer in the nearer we get to our Heavenly Father 524 00:41:12,860 --> 00:41:24,160 and to our Savior, Jesus Christ and to the Holy Ghost, the more we are disposed and able 525 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:32,360 to look with compassion upon them to offer forgiveness to them even if they receive it 526 00:41:32,360 --> 00:41:33,360 or not. 527 00:41:33,360 --> 00:41:36,360 And you know, he was such a great example of that. 528 00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:44,040 So one of the great stories told in church history is, you know, this Conver W W Phelps 529 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,800 who is so talented, who's who's, you know, I don't know how many hymns he has in the 530 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:54,960 hymn book and such a writer and editor and and brilliant man W W Phelps. 531 00:41:54,960 --> 00:42:05,600 But in them in the mobs of Missouri and in the persecution of Missouri, W W Phelps, uh, 532 00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:12,680 or sick the prophet turned his back on the church and he he bore some false testimony 533 00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:18,080 and and said some really mean things to get out of a lot of trouble. 534 00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:23,880 And it really hurt the church and it was, uh, it really hurt the prophet Joseph Smith 535 00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,520 and it caused caused him personally in the church. 536 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:30,720 A lot of a lot of heartache and pain. 537 00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:36,240 Only when he came back a few years later, he wrote, he writes this long letter to Joseph 538 00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:43,480 Smith about, uh, you know, what was going on and how he was deceived and how he was 539 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:50,800 sorry and asked for forgiveness from the prophet Joseph Smith and the prophet Joseph 540 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:51,800 Smith. 541 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:54,320 This is what he wrote back. 542 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:58,800 It is true that we have suffered much in consequence of your behavior. 543 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:05,560 The cup of gall already full enough for mortals to drink was indeed filled to overflowing 544 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,080 when you turned against us. 545 00:43:08,080 --> 00:43:11,600 However, the cup has been drunk. 546 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:17,240 The will of our father has been done and we are yet alive. 547 00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:23,220 Believing your confession to be real and your repentance genuine, I shall be happy once 548 00:43:23,220 --> 00:43:31,440 again to give you the right hand of fellowship and rejoice over the returning prodigal. 549 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:39,040 Your letter was read to the saints last Sunday and it was unanimously resolved that w w Phelps 550 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:42,520 should be received into fellowship. 551 00:43:42,520 --> 00:43:50,120 Come on, dear brother, since the war is past for friends at first our friends again at 552 00:43:50,120 --> 00:44:01,960 last, I mean, we can't comprehend the harm that he did and the pain that he caused and 553 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:10,560 to be so quick to forgive and to forgive him back in fellowship and and you know, as w 554 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:19,120 w Phelps who wrote to him, praise to the man because of the love, affection, respect, 555 00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:25,080 and testimony he had of the prophet Joseph Smith and his prophetic call. 556 00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:29,400 I mean that that was the prophet Joseph Smith. 557 00:44:29,400 --> 00:44:35,720 The greatest example of all Scott to conclude our podcast today is of course Jesus Christ, 558 00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:36,720 right? 559 00:44:36,720 --> 00:44:39,320 Nobody has suffered more. 560 00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:41,880 Nobody has been more of a victim. 561 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,760 Nobody has been more innocent. 562 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:52,720 Nobody has been more persecuted, suffered innocently at the hands of others than Jesus 563 00:44:52,720 --> 00:44:54,880 Christ. 564 00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:58,240 And what does he say from the cross? 565 00:44:58,240 --> 00:44:59,960 Forgive them father. 566 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:04,360 He not only forgives them, but he prays that God will forgive them. 567 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:09,760 That's maybe maybe that's part of the key to being able to forgive Scott is not only that 568 00:45:09,760 --> 00:45:15,720 we forgive others, but we pray to God. 569 00:45:15,720 --> 00:45:20,280 We pray that our heavenly father will forgive them. 570 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:28,400 Maybe it's not just enough that we not demand justice, but to to I mean, I know justice will 571 00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:29,400 be done. 572 00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:38,920 God is a God of justice and mercy, but also to pray to God that he might show them mercy. 573 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:47,560 Jesus Christ is the perfect, most powerful example of all of that. 574 00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:59,320 So some things to consider as we try to complete the process of of our repentance and receive 575 00:45:59,320 --> 00:46:06,160 the full access and power of Jesus Christ and his atonement in our life. 576 00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:12,000 Because I consider all that Jesus Christ has done for me, for each of us, you know, I love 577 00:46:12,000 --> 00:46:18,840 to always go back to Alma chapter 7 because the reminder there for me is that he did it 578 00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,040 all and why he did it. 579 00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:26,360 He shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions verse 11 and temptations of every kind. 580 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:29,960 And this that the word might be fulfilled, which says he will take upon him the pains 581 00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:34,480 and sicknesses of his people and he will take upon him death that he may lose the bands 582 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:39,400 of death which bind his people and he will take upon him their infirmities that his bowels 583 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:43,760 may be filled with mercy according to the flesh that he may know according to the flesh 584 00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:48,560 how to sucker his people according to their infirmities. 585 00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:51,040 And I know that he did that for me. 586 00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:53,800 And it's a little easier, I guess. 587 00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:57,320 I don't know if that's the right term to use, but it's a little more comfortable, a little 588 00:46:57,320 --> 00:47:00,360 easier for me to accept that he did that for me. 589 00:47:00,360 --> 00:47:01,360 He loved me. 590 00:47:01,360 --> 00:47:03,600 I can feel that and I can apply that. 591 00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:08,360 He did that to those who have offended for those who have offended may as well. 592 00:47:08,360 --> 00:47:17,360 Yeah, and and and provided compensatory blessing Scott out of the says the negative all the 593 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:23,920 negative consequences that we have all experienced because of sins committed against us or committed 594 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:25,240 against our loved ones. 595 00:47:25,240 --> 00:47:28,160 You know my experience Scott is. 596 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:32,320 It's been easier for me to forgive others who hurt me. 597 00:47:32,320 --> 00:47:33,320 Right. 598 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:39,480 It's harder for me to forgive others who have hurt my loved ones. 599 00:47:39,480 --> 00:47:40,640 I don't know why that is. 600 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:45,040 I probably just being a dad husband. 601 00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:50,600 Those have been the hardest ones for me is to forgive others who have hurt people that 602 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,600 I love the most. 603 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:55,920 However, we have to do that. 604 00:47:55,920 --> 00:47:57,880 We have to do that too. 605 00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:04,800 But I think I think again the key to all of this is to understand the Atonement of Jesus 606 00:48:04,800 --> 00:48:11,200 Christ exercise faith in Jesus Christ is atonement and receive it as a gift. 607 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:18,800 It doesn't come by just gritting our teeth and just I forgive you and you know it. 608 00:48:18,800 --> 00:48:25,400 Yeah, it has to kind of it has to flow through us Scott through the spirit influence gift 609 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,160 of the of the Holy Ghost in our lives. 610 00:48:28,160 --> 00:48:30,960 Hey, thanks for being with us this week gang. 611 00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:36,800 We we we hope and pray that the things that we talk about are adding to your lives. 612 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:43,160 We hope that through these three soon to be four episodes on forgiveness. 613 00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:48,920 We know that we're talking and sharing a lot of experience and not getting into steps 614 00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:52,880 or techniques or processes or those types of things. 615 00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:59,280 And just as a reminder that the process behind all of this is to come on to him to take upon 616 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:04,720 us his Atonement to go to the garden to go to the cross to understand the blessings and 617 00:49:04,720 --> 00:49:10,480 redemption that can that can come to all of us through the resurrection and to know that 618 00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:12,640 it was done for all of us as a gift. 619 00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,520 May we accept that gift. 620 00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:18,160 We may we accept the giver of the gift and all that we do is our prayer. 621 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:20,360 We look forward to being with you again next week. 622 00:49:20,360 --> 00:49:27,360 Can until then be well.