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Hey there everybody welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.

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Scott Durfey here as always joined by David Durfey.

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What's up Dave?

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Good to be here Scott with you.

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Excited to talk about these important things.

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So I encourage you we have received recently some really great emails, questions and stories

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and comments etc.

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We invite you to continue to send those even those who may have a different view or may

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have a different way of seeing things.

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We actually love those as well.

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So please get those to us.

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You can send those to us at heredeemsus at gmail.com.

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So thanks for those and keep them coming.

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We've had a great conversation this morning already.

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David and I talking about the things that we'll be talking about today and I'm really

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excited David to talk about this today.

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We've talked about so far over the last few weeks the manifestations of repentance which

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so far there's four.

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We've talked about three of those.

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Confess for sake and make restitution.

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And today we're going to be moving into the forgiveness part of it David.

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So I want to just remind all our listeners about the process and the essential elements

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of repentance as I see it and as I have taught it over the years.

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Repentance is a process and there are many different elements of repentance and all of

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them I think are really important to one degree or another.

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I think we participate in all of these elements when we repent.

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The order is not necessarily important.

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I mean people jump in at confession when I think it's more of a manifestation.

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But if confessing to their bishop gets them to eventually to cry out to God which is I

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think the heart and core of repentance then so be it wherever you jump in is good if you

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in fact go through the entire process.

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And it's not only a process that must be completed but it is a process that I think

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occurs in our life on probably a daily basis.

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But I don't think repentance is just as President Elson keeps reminding us is not just a lifelong

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thing something we do over a lifetime.

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It's something that we do daily and this process of repentance should be acting itself out

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daily on a daily basis.

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I know that that's the way the Lord would like us to see it without trifling with daily

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repentance is the Prophet Joseph Smith implores us.

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So I think that the all of these elements and essential four parts of repentance are

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just really important that we think about it.

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What am I doing today for example to increase my faith in the Lord Jesus Christ which is

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one of the foundations of repentance and it's it's that element that faith our faith in

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the Lord Jesus Christ in his atonement that I think is so critical to the entire process.

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In fact as I've said probably many times before if we feel like we're spinning our wheels

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repenting over and over again for the same sins and we we feel like we're not forgiven

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of our sins is probably because we lack sufficient faith in the Lord Jesus Christ or we lack

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an understanding of his atonement or we lack sufficient gratitude for his atonement.

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I just think that's really an important part of repentance that some people don't make

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that connection.

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Some people jump into repentance without actually strengthening their faith in the Lord Jesus

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Christ or their understanding of his atonement and and if you do that then you're I think

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you're short circuiting the process and you'll you'll wonder when you get through with your

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list or your five hours or whatever however you see repentance you'll get to the end of

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it and you'll wonder why don't I feel forgiven.

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I've experienced that Scott you've experienced that I think probably most members have experienced

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that and the reason is because they have a checklist of repentance and it's usually a

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checklist that maybe begins with the letter R and the only R that really really matters

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I mean the R that matters the most say it that way is rely on your redeemer and so often

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times got that that's the heart that's the core is crying out to God in faith in the

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Lord Jesus Christ crying out to him offering our souls and sins to him that is the real

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core of repentance and it's it's been well it was sad to me personally when I experienced

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my repentance I was trying so hard to repent of my sins when I was a young man and never

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felt forgiven never felt forgiven never felt forgiven kept confessing over and over again

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to every priest and leader I mean I confess my mission my stake president my mission president

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I wrote letters I wrote letters home to everybody trying to make restitution I was trying to

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do all I could following a list five step or six step list of repentance and I couldn't

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figure out why I didn't feel forgiven and it wasn't until that that night in Pacific

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Grove California when I cried out when I think I had finally come to an understanding months

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into my mission what the atonement of Jesus Christ really was and when my faith in Jesus

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Christ was finally sufficient where I could cry out and feel his his love his spirit his

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peace and anyway that's that's really the core of repentance and so when we when we

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talk about the manifestations of repentance I'm not saying that these aren't important

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but they're more of a manifestation that we have been forgiven than they really are they're

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not really the core of crying out to God acknowledging Jesus Christ not just suffering for our sins

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but also suffering because of our sins I mean one of the four parts of repentance is is

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fulfilling the conditions of repentance Scott which is a broken heart and contrite spirit

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and until someone comes to that contrite heart and a broken heart and contrite spirit it's

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really hard to it's really hard to repent and I don't think you can come to that point

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or meet those conditions until you really understand the atonement of Jesus Christ I

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mean we just had a conversation this morning with somebody about forgiving others forgiving

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a perpetrator you know who who had abused this person who we love and and she was able

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to share with us that it wasn't until she really understood the atonement of Jesus Christ

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and had an experience a personal experience where she kind of heard Jesus cry out why

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us thou forsaken me when she at one point in her life felt forsaken and she she wondered

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you know I feel forsaken but Jesus was really forsaken and he was forsaken for me and when

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she felt that and she heard then the next thing that Jesus cries out from the cross

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I actually don't think he cried it out he probably was it was very quiet almost a whisper

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this is how I picture it when he says it is finished when he says it's finished this

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sweet girl who we love talk to this morning you know she she received peace when she said

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when she heard him speak those words it is finished it's over let it go let it go it's

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done it's complete I suffered it I suffered for all of it I suffered for the perpetrators

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sins I suffered for the consequences of the sins committed against you I suffered for

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the for those who don't understand her for those who don't believe her for those who

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have offended you I have suffered for all of that it is finished let it go it's got

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I I have a we're talking about really today the the final manifestation of repentance

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which is forgiving others including ourselves and I just have this premise and I know it's

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not it's not completely always this way it's not without some exceptions but I have this

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premise based on my experience experiences of so many others that I've talked to about

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this and based upon the experience we have this morning right talking to her I have this

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premise that you can't really forgive others or yourself until you know that the Lord has

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forgiven you until you understand the atonement of Jesus Christ and that he suffered not only

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for my sins but because of my sins he suffered for all of them and he suffered for all of

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the consequences of them and for all the sins of others and for all the consequences of

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the sins of others and it's finished until you really have faith Scott until you really

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have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement I think you not only cannot completely

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forgive yourself I'm sure there are others who just can convince themselves that they're

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forgiven or they did no wrong or maybe brainwash themselves into believing it and I'm sure

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there are others who aren't even Christian who can forgive others but I I believe that

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through our faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement understanding him and his

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atonement not until we know that we're forgiven can we really forgive others including ourselves

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so many I've heard so many students priest leaders others others say you just have to

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forgive yourself you just got to forgive yourself I learned I just had to forgive myself for

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forgive myself and I always I always want to stop them and say it's so much easier to

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forgive yourself when you know that the Lord has forgiven you and it's so much easier to

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forgive others when you know that the Lord suffered for your abuse when you know that

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the Lord suffered for your pain your hurt and when you know that he also suffered for

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those who have been the abusers or the perpetrators of the pain or hurt that he suffered for them

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to I mean when you when you understand the atonement Jesus Christ and when you feel forgiven

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it's amazing how he can heal us not only of our sins but from the pains and the consequences

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forced upon us by the sins of others I have one quote here I want to just share one one

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quote that I think is really awesome on this God it's it's actually from elder Karen a

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few years ago before he was called to be an apostle but this is what he this is what he

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wrote this from April 2022 conference perhaps some of you however consider the accounts

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of survivors and your soul cries out that you are living a survival story right now

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as a victim of abuse neglect bullying domestic violence or any suffering of this kind you

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are in the midst of your own desperate attempt to survive a situation that feels very much

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like a disastrous shipwreck or a promising mission suddenly aborted will you ever be

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rescued will you make it through your own survival story the answer is yes you can survive you

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have in fact already been rescued you have already been saved by the one who has suffered

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the very torment you are suffering and endured the very agony you are enduring Jesus has

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overcome not only the sins of the world but all the abuses of this world to give you power

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to not only survive but one day through him to overcome and even conquer to completely

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rise above the pain the misery the anguish and see them replaced by peace the apostle

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Paul asks who shall separate us from the love of Christ shall tribulation or distress or

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persecution or famine or nakedness or peril or sword and and I'm just going to add or

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pep perpetrators or abuse nay nay in all these things we are more than conquerors through

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him that loved us we can not only survive Scott we through Jesus Christ and his atonement

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we can we can conquer so that's that's what I think we should talk about today and there's

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lots of scriptural examples to help us the Lord's words are are powerful on this this

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point of doctrine I we're coming close to the end we're going to we're probably going

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to spend I think a couple of podcasts at least yeah yeah probably at least there were so

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many in all of my classes got over the years and years I taught it at the Institute who

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who I asked them why did why did you take a class on repentance and forgiveness and

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they would say because there's somebody that I need to forgive and I don't know how to

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forgive them they they didn't really connect their forgiving someone with their own repentance

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and I just think it's really important right off the bat as we discuss this that if you're

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seeking to be forgiven you are in the repentance process because repentance is not only for

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us repenting of our sins but repentance also includes the gift that we must receive from

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God through Christ and his atonement administered by the Holy Ghost to be able to forgive others

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that you can't separate in my mind Scott you cannot separate forgiving others from repentance

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and the atonement of Jesus Christ it's not possible to forgive others without the atonement

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of Jesus Christ at least in it in a redemptive enabling and compensatory way so that's what

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we're going to talk about in the next few podcasts there's a couple things that you've

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kind of touched on that I want to kind of come back to the first one that comes to mind

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is when you make mention of daily repentance and you know finding elder president Nelson's

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invited us to find joy in or through daily repentance and so here's my here's my thought

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around that I always think okay so here's the here's the the equation and then here's

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the the solve for the equation the equation is repentance and what do I get for that I

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get joy according to I mean that's how I read what elder or what president Nelson has said

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is finding joy in daily repentance if I'm lacking joy maybe I'm lacking daily repentance

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somehow so well so Scott repentance is not suffering right and that's the point and or

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suffer doctrine covenants 19 verse 4 repent or suffer suffering is the opposite of repentance

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but we see a different than that sometimes I know I know joy is the result of repentance

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so thank you for what you're saying very important for us to understand that the other thing is

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is like when we say if I'm having I've been through this you've been through this many

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probably all of us at some level have been through this finding difficulty around forgiving

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others and then you so when you say well we need to repent so that we can be able or become

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able to forgive others some people will hear that and think well what am I doing wrong yeah

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what did I do wrong what am I why do I have to repent what am I doing wrong and I'm sorry

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if they I'm sorry if they see it that way because I don't mean it that way and I know

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that and that's why I want and you did clarify it earlier I mean just a few seconds ago but

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it's important that we understand that when we say repent this is an invitation to come

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on to him yeah that's what it means that's it that's what repentance is God and it's

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joyful and we all need to do it I know I we're all sinners and we've all been sinned against

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and repentance is are you going to face the sins you've committed or the sins committed

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against you right are you going to fixate on the abuse that you've suffered if that's

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what you're going to fixate on and that's where your mind is no joy or not and I understand

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I get that I I do too you know I understand being a fixated on that yep but until you

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can 180 degrees not 90 not 45 but 180 degrees turn around face the Savior and why you won't

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forget about those things you won't forget about the sins committed against you you won't

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forget about the abuse but until you can turn around and face the Savior and your focus is

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on him and you remember him and you look unto him and you move towards the Gethsemane in

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the cross and you go at the foot of the cross like that good sister told us again this morning

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right she the cross really is meaningful to her now because she's come to understand the

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atonement Jesus Christ and what happened on the cross and her personal experience with

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that until you can do that you're not only not going to be able to forgive others but

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you're not going to be able to be forgiven and if you don't forgive others by the way

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we just say this right up front yeah if you don't forgive others you're can be committing

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maybe the more serious sin the Lord says that Dr. and Covenants 64 9 through 11 and this

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is strong language and I I don't I don't think we can just push this aside we can't

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take this casually I think this is pretty strong doctrine here in regards to what the

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Lord says about forgiving others so 64 9 9 and 10 especially wherefore I say unto you

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that ye ought to forgive one another for he that forgives not his brother his trespasses

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standeth condemned before the Lord for there remaineth in him the greater sin that's if

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you're trying to forgive somebody you're in the process of repentance I the Lord will

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forgive whom I will forgive but of you it is required to forgive all men Scott that's why

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we need to do the repent because there's daily daily people we need to forgive the guy that

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cut me off on the road today you know I I need still working on trying to forgive him but

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if I don't forgive him in the process of not forgiving him I am committing the greater

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sin for him to ruin my peace to choose to let him ruin my peace I am committing the

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greater sin yeah but there's something vastly different between somebody cutting me off and

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somebody perpetrating a major sin against me but the solution is the same for both yeah

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and you know and as difficult as that may be for some of us to wrap our minds around

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it really is the same for both what is that solution that solution is repentance or come

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unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden and I will give you rest that's what that's

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what repentance is so it's not just a covering of our sins but it's a covering of all of

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the conditions that have been brought against us because of the fall of Adam and Eve when

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we embark in this repentance process what we are doing is we are inviting and qualifying

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for the power of the Savior to come in our lives and to heal us from those effects and

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it's it's only through him and his atonement that we that that power really Scott in an

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redeeming sort of way is available to us I know again people can forgive others but it's

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only redemptive if it is through Jesus Christ and his atonement when we understand what

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he suffered for when we understand what the atonement covers that then we can through

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our faith we can have peace and joy and we can feel forgiven and our relationship with

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Christ is changed I am changed from the inside out my heart is changed it's not just a change

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of behavior it's not just a change of mind it's a change of nature everything changes

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my relationship with others change my relationship with my family my relationship with anyway

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it's a it's a new so getting back to a miracle well and get him back to some of the things

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we talked about last week it's a repetitive and iterative experience because we have a

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new iteration of ourselves every time we go through this process thank you Scott I'm

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going to elder rendlin yeah I love elder rendlin really trying to get his focus on not just

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the you know the repetitive but the iterative process of living the gospel I love that and

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that's true that's true and and it's something that even though I've been able to forgive

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others I'm there's others that I still need to forgive that's why it's a daily daily process

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but hopefully like a helix we're we're progressing as we daily repent well and David and sometimes

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those things will come back you know I have some that I have they'll bubble up what I

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would call you know egregious offenses against me that have been difficult for me to forgive

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in my life but I have forgiven but sometimes it still comes back up and when it bubbles

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back up the the thing for me to do is to stay to stay steadfast in my commitment to partaking

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of the fruit to staying true to my covenants to remaining true to my commitment to visit

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the Garden of Gethsemane and the cross and to understand and and to love deeper and to

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invite him into my life and when as I as I feel his love some miraculous event takes

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place in for me and sometimes that hate and that loathing and that struggle within me I

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feel his love also being extended and that that repentance and forgiveness God on a

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daily on a daily basis can be not casual it's not casual it should never be trifled with

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it can be as simple as bowing our head and saying thank you right that's my sweetheart's

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mechanism she bows her head and she says thank you whenever she feels that she has sinned

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or offended someone or whenever she feels that she's been sinned sinned against or that

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someone has offended her she bows her head and says thank you and what does she think

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what comes into her mind when she says that what comes into her heart when she says that

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she's filled with the love of God which is the atonement of Jesus Christ and for the

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offering of God's son and all that goes with that that's what she thinks about and in in

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one blinding moment of bowing her head and say thank you it she lets it go I just think

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rep repentance does not need to be now I'm not talking about serious crimes criminal

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acts or major you know sins where church disciplinary counsel may be required but I'm talking about

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daily sins that we all commit they we shouldn't hold them over you know we shouldn't we we

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should just quickly speedily repent I love that I love that phrase it's in the scriptures

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twice it's in doctrine covenant section you know 109 and dedicatory prayer of the Kirtland

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temple where the Prophet Joseph Smith praise help them father that they may speedily repent

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well that doesn't mean casually that doesn't mean that we that we think of it as being

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easy or breezy but that we take it seriously and we bow our head we say thank you that

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that's my sweetheart's way of making the 180 degree turnaround and face the Savior is just

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by bowing her head and to just silently sometimes to herself saying thank you that that should

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be something that we all try to make just a part of our daily life Scott and and I think

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that's what it means by the way I think that's what it means to pray always that you may not

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be tempted more than you're able I think that's that is over and over again in the scriptures

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the the council the commandment to pray always that you may conquer Satan pray always that

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you may overcome pray always that's over and over again pray always to overcome temptation

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and I think that's what it means is that we just we remember him and we bow our heads

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take the sacrament on Sunday it doesn't just affect your past week right it affects your

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coming week and and it's because I took the sacrament last Sunday that I can say please

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forgive me today or it's a continual process and well their bed nor tells us that as we

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partake of the sacrament it's not just for a remission of our sins is to retain yeah

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mission of our sins is to retain that is to hang on to and and it doesn't mean we won't

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sin but what can be our experience is this can expand if I stay true to my my Sunday practice

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as I stay true to my my worship during the sacrament each Sunday can build on the last

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and I can take that power that comes from that covenantal relationship and the reminder

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that comes to it my part and his as I go through that each week then it can definitely have

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a carryover or it can it can affect me now and and not only into the future David but

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it can also change my past for sure yeah yeah absolutely but but I I think so many see repentance

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as just a thing to cover the past yeah and repentance covers the past it covers the present

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and it does cover the future that's the moment of Jesus Christ is infinite which means not

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only that it's for all people but that's for all time that makes it iterative past present

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and future yeah progressive not just regressive and in the past again getting back to forgiving

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others Scott if we just read 64 9 9 and 10 that if we don't forgive others we can we

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commit the greater sin yeah I mean just I know that sounds hard to believe for some

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people are listening to us right now because there have been some who have who have experienced

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such terrible things against their family you know we we got an email this week from

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a brother who who you know shared with us about the experience of his father murdering

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his mother I mean think about that yeah yeah yeah and there's more to the story than that

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too I mean so here's a father alcoholic LDS but alcoholic the mother who wants to participate

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in in things church wise and does teach his primary but the father will never allow the

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mother to become baptized anyway the person that sent us the email because of the turmoil

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and the dysfunction in their home at a very young age was married well said also that

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his entire world came to a screeching halt one day when he received a phone call from

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his mother's friend who said I need you to come to your mom's house right now and he

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did and the friend stopped him anyway the turns out that to his dad had shot his mother three

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times and she spent some time in the ICU before she finally passed away and then during his

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incarceration dad decided that he wanted to be rebaptized and asked the son whom apparently

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he'd never expressed remorse to or even apologize to for wrecking his and his sibling's life

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wanted him to rebaptize him and he did and talked about how that was very difficult and

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even maybe with a little bit of a hard hard in the beginning but through the atonement

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of Jesus Christ and through the grace of Jesus Christ that was made available to him because

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of Christ's atonement that that that he was actually able when his dad was released from

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incarceration was he not only able to baptize him but he was able to go to the temple and

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see himself to the dad's new wife.

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Yeah, can you imagine having to live through that Scott and again I it may seem really

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harsh when the Lord says if you don't forgive forgive others you're you're committing the

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greater sin or you're under the greater condemnation and how's that possible because I know that

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it takes time I I know the Lord knows it takes time to maybe forgive others the Lord understands

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that but I think what it means God and I'm interested in your take on this that the

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greater condemnation or the greater sin is that as long as I'm fixated on that I can't

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have really the relationship that I need or want to have with the Lord Jesus Christ and

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if I'm fixated on the sins of others or the sins committed against me or the abuse or

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the however I see myself as a victim to quit seeing myself as the ultimate victim but to

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turn around and face Jesus Christ who is really the only ultimate victim who who innocently

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innocently suffered for all of the sins and the consequences of all sin of all the world

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to turn around and to focus on him and as long as I can't do that because I am I'm concerned

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about my victimization I'm concerned about my situation and I can't I don't have the

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faith or the understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ enough to turn around to go

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to get 70 in the cross and to to look unto him in every thought I commit the greater

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sin I mean I don't know for how many years this this young man who's who's sharing this

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with us how much probably that really affected his relationship with Jesus and with his heavenly

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father to to be so angry and I I'm not I'm not judging and I'm not condemning here at

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all not blaming how much that would have been hard not to be angry at his dad not to not

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to not to suffer not to feel the pain and the anguish from all of that but if I can't

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forgive him eventually then I choose to continue to suffer yeah and that is why the condemnation

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is more on me I just I just don't think that alone it's humanly possible probably I don't

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think that we because of the fall I don't think we are equipped I think that we have

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things that are lacking in our natural man that disallow us to participate that in a

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full experience at least in an in a redemptive way yeah at least in an in redemptive way

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we can say that that that's absolutely true Scott and here's another reason why the greater

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condemnation is on us I believe is for example and there's a story similar to this in elder

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Anderson's book in the second chapter but I know of an individual of a family I know

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of a family who because of the sins of the husband and the dad the whole family is embarrassed

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because of his behaviors and examples and sins he eventually goes to goes to jail he's

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excommunicated from the church there's great great pain caused by him upon others especially

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his family and the mother again I'm not I'm not judging I'm not criticizing I'm only

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now reporting the mother cannot forgive him divorces him and I'm not saying that was wrong

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I'm not I'm not making any judgment here but the mother divorces him and she gets custody

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of the children and because you know of him spending some time in jail and because of other

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other things she has custody and she won't let the children ever speak of or see the

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father receive any contact from the father or now even grandfathers grandfather grandmother

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from that side of the family there is no contact this this this person who was hurt and sinned

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against will is now going to it's now going to go on through the second the third and

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fourth and who knows how many generations this pain of what the father cause is going

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to be perpetuated over and over and over again through generations of time think of it Scott

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if people could just forgive and let it go and through the love of God be able to continue

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to live a life of peace but it's just so sad that Satan can take a sin even even really

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serious sins Satan can take that and it's it's not so much the this the sin that destroyed

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that family it's their unwillingness to forgive that is destroying that family and Satan is

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behind it this is not it's not pleasing to God he's commanded us to forgive all he'll

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forgive who we will forgive but it is it is commanded that we forgive all and and the

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the damage and the the destruction that will continue to go on now for generations is all

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caused because of a person's unwillingness to turn around to go into Christ to lay their

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pain their abuse that they're suffering at the feet of the Savior and to hear him say

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it is finished I want to read a couple of the words from the story that you just referenced

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this is on page 22 very bottom of the page 22 in the book the divine gift of forgiveness

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and this is the lady who had been devastated because of the actions of her husband she

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was going on and talking a little bit about the story and then this is what she says I

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was devastated scared lonely and so so sad I prayed constantly to Heavenly Father and

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one day I woke up and the pain was gone all I can say is that the gift of the atonement

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of Jesus Christ is real and he took the pain from me and then at the very end of that story

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and I said going over to page 24 this is the very last paragraph of that same story it

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says how was I able to do it to care for him so what had happened is the husband became

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sick she had remarried the husband needed care and she was able to take care of her ex-husband

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and how was I able to do it to care for him after all he had done to cause so much pain

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it was because Heavenly Father loves his children and the atonement of Jesus Christ is real all

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broken things can be fixed broken hearts broken relationships and broken lives all because

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of our Savior Jesus Christ there's so much power and so much truth and so much freedom

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that comes from that that is just when we hold on and again I get it no judgment for

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me on anybody who is having difficulty forgiving others this may be one of the hardest most

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difficult things we are asked in our human experience to do is to forgive others when

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we make Jesus Christ the center of our lives and all of our lives and all that we do points

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back to him and what he did for us what he suffered because of me and what he suffered

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for me this lady didn't sin I mean of course we all sin but the sin was not hers but the

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pain was right the pain was hers and the pain was hers in ways that are absolutely ineffable

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we just cannot describe she just is it's impossible even for her to describe the pain and she

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says and so so sad so sad but it was and then because she had prayed constantly because

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she had made Jesus Christ the center of her life and all that she did and all that she

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thought about apparently she woke up one morning and it was gone the hate was gone yeah

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a miracle and a gift totally a gift yeah one that cannot be earned but one that needs

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to be qualified for through faith right through faith in Jesus Christ and through understanding

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his atonement and and whether whether we're a victim of a disease like the woman who had

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years of issue with blood who makes her way through the crowd through all of the the

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pain and embarrassment and humiliation and all that goes with with especially in the

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Jewish culture at that time of having an issue of blood and her go out into the public which

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was what she was not supposed to do to go out into the public and have the faith that

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Jesus could heal her and just touch if I could just touch and I him of the garment she knew

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that she could be healed and Jesus fills power he says I feel power come out of me who touched

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me and disciples said Lord there's so many people in this press what do you mean who

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touched you you are being touched by everybody right now but it was different for him and

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he sees the woman and this is this is powerful because this is only a few times in the scripture

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Scott he tells the woman thy faith hath made the whole right not just physically healed

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but she was spiritually redeemed saved reconciled all of it and and I think you know whether

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we're a victim of physical disease emotional abuse physical abuse sexual abuse whatever

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we are afflicted with and we're all just sinners help and sinners and we're all victims of

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sin and we were all perpetrators of sin really you can't sin in a bubble but if you hold

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on to a sin committed against you how many other people are you negatively affecting

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how many other people have to suffer through you because of the sins committed against

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you until you receive the atonement of Jesus Christ through your faith in him and turn

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around and lay it at his feet I mean that it's it's really tragic Scott there have been

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so many individuals destroyed not so much by the sins committed against them but their

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unwillingness or maybe through ignorance I don't know I can't judge but but through

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their inability or unwillingness to turn around and to face the Savior and to look under him

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in every thought and to behold the wounds in his side in the Prince the Nails and his

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hands and feet doctrine covenants section six right you know in recovery this is a big

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one this is a big one in life I get it but recovery is kind of an experiment or a microcosm

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of life and of the God and of the gospel a hundred percent and we we when we as a sponsor

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and I won't get into any details but as a sponsor and being one who has heard many fourths and

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fifths or heard many fifth steps which is the confession step that we talked about semi

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recently and now when a sponsor is hearing this this is not to inactive forgiveness

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of sins this is to help them identify so that they can move into the repentance process

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whatever that looks like LDS not LDS whatever the case may be but inevitably and I and I

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heard some really blood curdling gut wrenching stuff you can only imagine you know this is

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some of the most evil of the most evil that in our culture that I think that we could

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experience in many cases it's interesting to me that I don't know that interesting is

409
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the right word but I find it I find it interesting to make this observation it's interesting

410
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to me that as people go through this process and if they begin to see themselves as a victim

411
00:46:33,920 --> 00:46:41,040
this victimization David can become an identity yeah and when we subscribe to because of the

412
00:46:41,040 --> 00:46:46,880
accuser there and there's a big payoff you know there can be big payoffs to be in a victim

413
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so what would some of those payoffs be well if I'm a victim then I may not be responsible

414
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or I may not be accountable to this or to do I may not be emotionally available to participate

415
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,280
and for example in my with my kids or my spouse or my friends or whatever the case may be

416
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:13,080
there there can be a payoff but it's because it has become an identity when that identity

417
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shifts and we see ourselves in our true identity and in in Alcoholics Anonymous and other repro

418
00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:27,040
recovery programs we do that through steps one two three and and then 10 11 12 we've

419
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talked about some of that I can recap if we need to but but we when we go through that

420
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process our identity shifts and we begin to see ourselves for who we really are who we

421
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really are is somebody who has learned to love and understand a power greater than me

422
00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:50,360
Jesus Christ because they've because they understand first Scott they first understand

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that they're not they're powerless in other words from a gospel perspective they understand

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that they are a son or daughter of Adam and Eve and that they are human and that they're

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00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:09,840
fallen and that they're a sinner and that's step one right my life has become unmanageable

426
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:15,520
I have no control over alcohol I can't control it in my life and it has become unmanageable

427
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or in a fallen celestial hellish world sons of Adam and Eve and then the second step is

428
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came to believe that a power greater than me could restore me to sanity and I said that

429
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:30,960
you know we question sometimes the restoration to sanity you know kind of tongue in cheek

430
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:35,800
maybe there never was sanity for some of us but nonetheless restore us to sanity or to

431
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:42,000
give us sanity in our lives that can only come through an identity the identity that

432
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:49,280
we come on it come in with has to morph to a different identity in order for us to fill

433
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,880
the joy the happiness the relief the freedom the escape from bondage and all other all

434
00:48:54,880 --> 00:49:03,600
other adjectives that are appropriately placed on that leaving that sinless life so to speak

435
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:11,040
and when that identity shifts it becomes I'll be careful to ever use the word easy but it

436
00:49:11,040 --> 00:49:17,640
becomes easier to forgive more others more natural more natural to forgive others it

437
00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:23,960
becomes a part of our new identity a child not of Adam and Eve anymore but of heavenly

438
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:30,440
Father who loves me who has compensated and empowered and redeemed me through the atonement

439
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:36,080
of Jesus Christ and it's through that identity shift Dave that I think that getting back

440
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,400
to what we talked about earlier through that identity shift that we begin to fill that

441
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:45,440
joy that comes through daily repentance especially as we're able to forgive others yeah well

442
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:56,840
that's that's awesome Scott yeah at some point we have to iterate from being a a son or daughter

443
00:49:56,840 --> 00:50:05,200
of Adam and Eve and see ourself as a child of Christ that he suffered and he died for

444
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:12,960
me and he is my spiritual father and I want to have a relationship with him I know he's

445
00:50:12,960 --> 00:50:17,880
not the father of my spirit that adds to our identity when we understand that we are created

446
00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:24,520
in the image and likeness of God and that he is the father of my spirit and he loves

447
00:50:24,520 --> 00:50:33,360
me so much that he offered or sacrificed his only begotten son that whosoever believeth

448
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:38,640
in him should not perish it's really true Scott identity is everything and then we actually

449
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:44,920
started this whole podcast with that that identity is everything identity determines eternity

450
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:52,960
we talked all about that and it's it's really true and when one sees themselves as a victim

451
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:59,080
they get stuck well when we see ourselves as a victim as you said we are seeing ourselves

452
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:04,520
as fallen right and we go to mosey chapter 3 verse 19 and we talk about what happens

453
00:51:04,520 --> 00:51:09,480
when we see ourselves as a fallen and the natural man is an enemy to God and has been

454
00:51:09,480 --> 00:51:14,960
from the fall of Adam and will be forever and ever unless he yields to the enticings

455
00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:20,080
of the Holy Spirit and put us off the natural man and become a saint through the atonement

456
00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:26,280
of Christ the Lord and become a child submissive me humble patient full of love willing to

457
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:32,400
submit to all things which the Lord seeeth fit to inflict upon him even as a child does

458
00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:38,720
submit to his father a change of identity we shift from natural man to a child of our

459
00:51:38,720 --> 00:51:50,200
heavenly father yeah yeah that's that's really important and and until one can really consciously

460
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:56,840
understand that Scott and let go of their identity as a victim it's going to be really

461
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:03,000
hard to turn around and want to become a child of Jesus Christ or yeah right or to really

462
00:52:03,000 --> 00:52:09,400
understand what it means to be a child of heavenly parents right I think it's really

463
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,040
interesting Scott in the scriptures a word the word blameless I've just always found

464
00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:19,960
that to be really interesting I think I've mentioned it before but I think when I know

465
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:27,280
all the scriptures where it says be blameless I think that means that we should live a life

466
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:37,320
of repentance and forgiveness which means we don't blame others for where I'm at and

467
00:52:37,320 --> 00:52:44,160
we live a life so that others can't blame us that would be wow would that be that's the

468
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:53,160
utopia of spirituality and of a Christian life is to tune to because of the atonement

469
00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:59,520
of Jesus Christ Scott I mean this is the faith and understanding one needs to come to to

470
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:05,840
really be able to let things go into to live the life that Jesus Christ is encouraging

471
00:53:05,840 --> 00:53:14,000
us to live a blameless a blameless life is to that through the atonement of Jesus Christ

472
00:53:14,000 --> 00:53:20,440
we don't have to blame anybody because Jesus Christ has compensated this enabled us and

473
00:53:20,440 --> 00:53:27,080
in and redeemed us that through Christ that we don't have to lose anything that's that

474
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:33,680
he can restore virtue he can restore sanity he can restore anything that we think that

475
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:39,640
we may have lost because of the sins or abuse of others that through Jesus Christ and his

476
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:48,080
atonement that we can have beauty out of ashes and oil of joy out of mourning I love that

477
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:56,240
imagery of Isaiah right in Isaiah chapter 61 that that through Jesus Christ really ugly

478
00:53:56,240 --> 00:54:04,520
terrible terrible things ashes out of ashes can come something that is really beautiful

479
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:11,760
and and not only can can we become whole again but but we can become strengthened and we

480
00:54:11,760 --> 00:54:18,400
can become even more beautiful than we were before that's all that's what the atonement

481
00:54:18,400 --> 00:54:25,080
of Jesus Christ is that's the power that's available to us so I I just hope and pray

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00:54:25,080 --> 00:54:33,080
that all of our listeners can maybe ponder this but I invite you to think about how can

483
00:54:33,080 --> 00:54:43,320
I become more blameless how can I blame others less and how can I live a life so that others

484
00:54:43,320 --> 00:54:51,440
won't blame me I if we could live that kind of a life Scott through through the power

485
00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:58,560
gift and atonement of Jesus Christ I think we would find what it means to really have

486
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:04,360
the joy that comes through repentance thanks for being with us we look forward to being

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00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:22,840
with you again next week until then be well