1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Hey there everybody welcome out to another episode of Redeem Through His Blood. 2 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:23,280 Scott Durfey here joined as always by David Durfey. 3 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:24,280 How are you? 4 00:00:24,280 --> 00:00:25,280 Good, good. 5 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,280 Good. 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:27,280 Happy birthday by the way. 7 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:31,600 I feel kicking after that birthday 7-0. 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:36,720 You know a lot of people ask me all the time is David your brother or you know what's the 9 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:37,720 relationship there? 10 00:00:37,720 --> 00:00:39,280 Yeah I probably sound younger. 11 00:00:39,280 --> 00:00:40,280 You look younger. 12 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:41,280 There's no question there. 13 00:00:41,280 --> 00:00:42,840 Yeah I could be your little brother. 14 00:00:42,840 --> 00:00:43,840 You act younger. 15 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,480 And only in the LDS community is that possible but that is possible. 16 00:00:47,480 --> 00:00:48,480 It really is. 17 00:00:48,480 --> 00:00:50,680 That is possible to have a nephew who's older than you. 18 00:00:50,680 --> 00:00:51,680 Who's older than the uncle. 19 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:52,680 Yeah. 20 00:00:52,680 --> 00:00:53,680 I can cite several situations. 21 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,880 There are stories about, of course I love the culture. 22 00:00:56,880 --> 00:01:04,640 I'm not, I'm not being derogatory or critical but you know mothers standing in the line 23 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:09,440 of their son or daughter's wedding line and they're pregnant. 24 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:13,400 And you know it's possible I guess that who knows. 25 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:14,400 Yeah. 26 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:18,880 You could have been my nephew who was older than me. 27 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:25,040 Well either way it's just been an absolute fun experience over the last few years to 28 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:26,800 be doing this with Dave. 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,720 So Dave when you turn 70 you know I just had a big birthday. 30 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:31,400 I just turned 60 a few months ago. 31 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:38,760 Dave's 10 years and 3 months almost exactly older than me and you know I did a lot of 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,280 reflecting when I hit my big 6-0 milestone this year. 33 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,040 You know I don't know about you but I tend to look back and I think on my life you know 34 00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:50,920 I have this tendency to do personal inventories in my life right. 35 00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:55,840 So I look back and I assess where I am and where I'm going and try to make adjustments 36 00:01:55,840 --> 00:01:57,840 and so forth. 37 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,400 What was your experience turning 70? 38 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:05,320 Well I've been thinking a lot about Brother Matthews and I've been thinking about an old 39 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:12,440 poem that he had I should have brought it called The Old Crow and in essence is the 40 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:17,280 Old Crow, the older it gets the less he knows. 41 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,120 That's just so true Scott. 42 00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:24,200 It just seems like the older I get the more I know I don't know. 43 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:30,400 So I've been thinking about that and I played on my birthday in silence all alone in my 44 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:38,360 room and didn't shed a tear or anything but I probably came close listening to Alan Jackson. 45 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:45,720 I love this it's always been one of my favorite songs but when you get 70 it even means more. 46 00:02:45,720 --> 00:02:53,160 You know he plays a song Alan Jackson who's one of my favorite called The Older I Get. 47 00:02:53,160 --> 00:03:00,920 And the chorus I love the chorus in this chorus those of you who are old ought to download 48 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:03,200 this put it in your playlist for sure. 49 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,280 Maybe listen to it every morning before you get out of bed. 50 00:03:06,280 --> 00:03:09,320 But he says maybe it'd help you get out of bed. 51 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,600 I could use some of that. 52 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:17,000 Anyway in the chorus it says if they found a fountain of youth I wouldn't take a drop 53 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,480 and that's the truth. 54 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:28,920 You know there's of course things that I wish I would have done better done differently. 55 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,840 You know there's so many things that I could have improved on throughout my life but I 56 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,320 wouldn't want to go back and live it over again. 57 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:38,680 I wouldn't want to go back and start over. 58 00:03:38,680 --> 00:03:39,680 I know that. 59 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:46,840 So I think the older you get the more humble hopefully you become because the more you 60 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:48,440 know you don't know. 61 00:03:48,440 --> 00:03:55,320 I think maybe the older I get hopefully the more wisdom I hope I have just that comes 62 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:57,880 out of experience more than anything. 63 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:05,320 The older I get the closer it seems to me that I get to my Heavenly Father my Savior 64 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:13,920 Jesus Christ I think that you you just naturally begin to reflect more on them and your life 65 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:22,440 and your life beyond this life which is not only not only humbling but in some ways sanctifying. 66 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:23,440 So I don't know. 67 00:04:23,440 --> 00:04:27,960 Hi there's there's all those thoughts and feelings that I've had this past weekend 68 00:04:27,960 --> 00:04:29,960 when I turned 70. 69 00:04:29,960 --> 00:04:30,960 Grateful grateful. 70 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,400 I think you get more grateful grateful for count my blessings. 71 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,520 Anything come as a big surprise to you. 72 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,520 Nothing. 73 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:40,520 Yeah. 74 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:41,520 Yeah. 75 00:04:41,520 --> 00:04:42,520 Not really Scott. 76 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,160 You just kind of anticipated it. 77 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:45,160 Yeah. 78 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:46,160 And it doesn't feel really any different. 79 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:47,160 No. 80 00:04:47,160 --> 00:04:54,720 It just just gives me pause for some more meditation and reflection on my life and which I'm thankful 81 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:55,720 for. 82 00:04:55,720 --> 00:05:01,600 You know I think you said it but you know and it's probably more so this way as you 83 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:06,600 get a little more advanced in yours at least that's been my experience but just realizing 84 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:09,520 how much I just absolutely do not know. 85 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:10,520 Yeah. 86 00:05:10,520 --> 00:05:13,960 Oh it's it's really true. 87 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,920 And for brother Matthew for brother Matthew used to say that to me. 88 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:18,920 Yeah. 89 00:05:18,920 --> 00:05:21,840 And to share that poem with me and we kind of talked about that. 90 00:05:21,840 --> 00:05:28,920 I remember thinking wow if he feels like he knows less I know nothing. 91 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:29,920 Yeah. 92 00:05:29,920 --> 00:05:30,920 You know. 93 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:31,920 Yeah. 94 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,240 And we're feeling that I was probably in my early 50s when he shared that with me. 95 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:36,240 Really. 96 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:37,240 Yeah. 97 00:05:37,240 --> 00:05:38,240 And he was about 80. 98 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:42,800 So anyway that's that's kind of my life. 99 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:43,800 How's your life. 100 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:44,800 Life's good. 101 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:45,800 Life's good. 102 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:49,480 We're moving into spring here on the Wasatch Front that's bittersweet for me. 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:50,480 I didn't get quite. 104 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,920 I've still got a lot of skiing left to do this spring but I haven't got quite as much 105 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:58,640 as I'd like to have this winter but that's a first world problem. 106 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:00,640 That's for sure. 107 00:06:00,640 --> 00:06:01,640 You know. 108 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:02,640 We're pretty spoiled too. 109 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:03,640 Are we. 110 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:04,640 Yeah. 111 00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:05,640 Yeah. 112 00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:07,120 I just really hesitate to bemoan anything in my life. 113 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,880 I'm so blessed and have so many wonderful things going on within our family. 114 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:14,080 I had a really cool experience. 115 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:18,200 I got to sit right where you're sitting the other night and Xander my oldest grandson 116 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:23,040 kind of made a makeshift chair right next to you and we watched the jazz game together 117 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:29,240 and tell you you know those are just some of the most cherished wonderful experiences 118 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:30,480 as we grow older. 119 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:31,480 Yeah. 120 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:33,760 That just means so much to me now. 121 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:41,120 Well I guess one of the best happy birthdays I got was from my grandson. 122 00:06:41,120 --> 00:06:42,120 The one on a mission. 123 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,640 The one on a mission who wrote me a special email and expressed his love and gratitude 124 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:47,960 and yeah. 125 00:06:47,960 --> 00:06:49,640 So yeah you're right. 126 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:54,880 Grandchildren at our age this becomes an important part of our life but one thing I thought 127 00:06:54,880 --> 00:07:00,760 of when I said said my prayer on my birthday was to try to thank my heavenly father for 128 00:07:00,760 --> 00:07:06,800 my earthly parents you know that they would give me life especially my mother who almost 129 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:08,800 died when I was born. 130 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:14,480 You know she had to stay in the hospital for three weeks because of complications in my 131 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:17,160 birth and I guess I never knew that. 132 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:18,160 Yeah. 133 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:19,160 Interesting. 134 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:20,320 She almost died. 135 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:28,320 She was on death's door when she delivered me and I was in a they describe it like a still 136 00:07:28,320 --> 00:07:31,880 incubator back in those days for three weeks. 137 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:32,880 She couldn't feed me. 138 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:40,520 She couldn't do anything and anyway so I'm grateful for the sacrifice. 139 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,080 My older siblings your dad could tell you probably more about that than me. 140 00:07:45,080 --> 00:07:51,000 I remember him telling me how Grandpa Durfee made him fix dinner or something and he was 141 00:07:51,000 --> 00:07:52,480 still mad at me. 142 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:58,720 My dad was still you know upset that I almost cost his mother his life. 143 00:07:58,720 --> 00:08:00,480 That sounds alright. 144 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:03,480 He's reminded me that a few times. 145 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:04,480 Yeah. 146 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:05,480 That sounds alright. 147 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:09,600 And anyway I'm just really thankful that she was willing to pay that price. 148 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:11,000 I was a blue baby. 149 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:12,000 Okay. 150 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,000 Yeah. 151 00:08:13,000 --> 00:08:18,120 And the cord was wrapped around my neck and the cord had burst inside my mother. 152 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:19,120 Yeah. 153 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:24,400 And the cord and she was she was filled with infection and almost passed. 154 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,640 I didn't know any of that. 155 00:08:26,640 --> 00:08:27,640 Yeah. 156 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:34,280 Anyway so I'm really thankful for her and and all the my wife my sweetheart and all 157 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:35,280 my family. 158 00:08:35,280 --> 00:08:40,360 I think you just feel more gratitude the older you get. 159 00:08:40,360 --> 00:08:46,000 So anyway Scott we've been talking a lot about faith and maybe we should just summarize 160 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:53,880 quickly here faith and maybe some of the questions we often get about faith. 161 00:08:53,880 --> 00:09:01,480 We've talked about faith in the general faith in God you know faith in Jesus Christ faith 162 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:10,240 in the prophets faith in ourselves faith you know really another word for faith is trust 163 00:09:10,240 --> 00:09:12,640 trusting in them and there's different levels of faith. 164 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:17,560 I just want to remind all our listeners you can ever talk about faith as though I have 165 00:09:17,560 --> 00:09:19,280 it or I don't. 166 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:23,200 You must talk about it in where am I at in my faith. 167 00:09:23,200 --> 00:09:28,600 You must always see it as a continuum and that there are different levels. 168 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:33,200 There's a hierarchy to faith and it's true of all the principles of the gospel. 169 00:09:33,200 --> 00:09:39,600 I mean it's just it's just easy for us or human nature is that we think of things in 170 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:45,920 terms of absolutes as haves or haves nots but you can't everyone has some degree of 171 00:09:45,920 --> 00:09:49,120 faith in the general. 172 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,840 You wouldn't get out of bed if you didn't have faith we've talked about that. 173 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:57,840 So we've talked about the levels of faith and I want to remind all our listeners God 174 00:09:57,840 --> 00:09:59,760 has faith. 175 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:05,960 I think it's just wrong to say that if you know all things you don't need faith. 176 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:07,760 I've heard that top before. 177 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:13,320 Well God knows all things but faith is the power by which he created our world by which 178 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:15,640 he creates all worlds. 179 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:21,920 Faith is not only a principle of belief but it is a principle of action. 180 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:28,160 I might know how to create a world that doesn't give me that doesn't automatically replace 181 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:29,320 my faith. 182 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:33,560 I may have perfect knowledge how to create a world but if I don't if I refuse to act 183 00:10:33,560 --> 00:10:36,840 on it I have no faith. 184 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,680 Faith without action is dead. 185 00:10:40,680 --> 00:10:46,320 James you know talked about how you can believe but if you don't have faith and you don't 186 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:49,600 put it into action it's dead. 187 00:10:49,600 --> 00:10:57,600 Faith is the power to believe it's the power to act and it is a principle therefore of 188 00:10:57,600 --> 00:10:58,600 power. 189 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,440 That's all from the lectures on faith. 190 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,640 So we've talked about that in kind of the general and then we talked about faith in 191 00:11:04,640 --> 00:11:09,680 Jesus Christ and what that means and that's the first principle of the gospel and you 192 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:13,080 cannot put that behind repentance. 193 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:20,720 This is a course mostly on repentance and forgiveness and the key to really repentance 194 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:28,040 is understanding what faith is and growing and increasing in our faith to know that it's 195 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:36,400 a gift of God it's a gift of the spirit and to try to receive more faith in Jesus Christ 196 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,000 faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. 197 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:45,560 And if you try to put repentance before that you'll just spin your wheels commit the same 198 00:11:45,560 --> 00:11:48,720 sins over and over again. 199 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:54,640 Young adults and others end up in the bishop's office over and over and over again confessing 200 00:11:54,640 --> 00:12:01,000 the same same sins over and over again and there's no progression in repentance Scott. 201 00:12:01,000 --> 00:12:03,080 Well it's not really repentance. 202 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,280 It is not repentance and there's no power in it. 203 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:11,560 If you don't have sufficient faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. 204 00:12:11,560 --> 00:12:17,880 So faith is the key and the life and the power. 205 00:12:17,880 --> 00:12:25,240 I think we ended last time maybe session or the time before that if faith is not in repentance 206 00:12:25,240 --> 00:12:26,800 is dead. 207 00:12:26,800 --> 00:12:29,120 It's just dead works. 208 00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:33,400 If you confess without faith in Jesus Christ it's just it's all dead. 209 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:35,240 It's definitely not repentance. 210 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:41,960 There will be no progress and the miracle of forgiveness cannot take place unless it's 211 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:48,040 based upon faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and his Atonement. 212 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:55,320 And then we talked Scott about the difference a little bit between faith in Jesus Christ 213 00:12:55,320 --> 00:13:01,680 and faith in the name of Jesus Christ which makes it even more specific. 214 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:05,080 You really want to get get power. 215 00:13:05,080 --> 00:13:09,880 It's amazing how many times I invite our listeners to go look this up. 216 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:15,040 How many times it tells us that we are saved by faith in the name. 217 00:13:15,040 --> 00:13:17,640 Faith in the name of Jesus Christ. 218 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:22,800 And that includes a lot more than just faith in Jesus in the general. 219 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:32,120 That means he's more than just a historical figure spiritual coach great individual or 220 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:35,480 you know even even you know how we see him. 221 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:38,280 But it's it's faith in his character. 222 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:40,120 It's faith in who he is. 223 00:13:40,120 --> 00:13:42,640 It's faith in the ordinances. 224 00:13:42,640 --> 00:13:44,880 It's faith in his priesthood. 225 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,560 It's faith in you know your name is everything your name. 226 00:13:49,560 --> 00:13:58,440 Your name Scott represents everything and to have faith in his name means so much more 227 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,400 than just faith in him. 228 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:07,080 And elder oak summarizes some of that in the book called in his holy name. 229 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,040 So we talked about that. 230 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:15,880 I think we introduced briefly the concept which I'm so grateful for it's a unique, unique 231 00:14:15,880 --> 00:14:25,200 phrase in the Book of Mormon in the lecture on faith of Amulik in Alma chapter 34 when 232 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:32,640 he's talking to the Zoramites and Alma's trusty companion and after Alma teaches Christ 233 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:40,680 and him crucified Amulik comes in and teaches them about faith unto repentance. 234 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:46,840 Faith unto repentance that I think he uses that term about four times and I love that 235 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:53,560 phrase that faith in Jesus Christ leads us to repentance. 236 00:14:53,560 --> 00:15:00,880 You everyone everyone to some degree has faith faith in something but faith unto repentance 237 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:07,680 has to be focused in Jesus Christ in the name of Jesus Christ and his atonement. 238 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:18,280 So I think with all of that maybe as an introduction into repentance Scott we are ready to kind 239 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:25,240 of take it on and as we talk about repentance and so most of the rest of our podcast will 240 00:15:25,240 --> 00:15:29,040 be focused on the process of repentance. 241 00:15:29,040 --> 00:15:36,040 I want and I remember talking to Elder Anderson a little bit about this is that I like to 242 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:44,720 talk about repentance in this with the same outline as the lectures on faith and the school 243 00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:48,180 of the prophets took on the principle of faith. 244 00:15:48,180 --> 00:15:54,320 So in the lectures on faith, Joseph Smith with Sidney Rigdon or some Pratt and others 245 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:59,080 who kind of developed and wrote the lectures on faith. 246 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:05,000 They took on three questions and I think this is a principle that all of our listeners can 247 00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:09,880 apply in their gospel study Scott is that when you study a principle of the gospel and 248 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:12,960 I that's how I love to study the gospel. 249 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,720 I love to I love to read the scriptures chronologically. 250 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,560 I love to read them sequentially. 251 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:20,560 I love that. 252 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:27,920 But mostly I love to read them but thematically by themes or by principles. 253 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:36,040 When I study the gospel, I try to use the same outline that is used in the in the presenting 254 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,840 the writing of the lectures on faith. 255 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,520 So when they when they wrote that they said we're going to answer three questions about 256 00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:45,640 faith. 257 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:51,640 And I recommend that in any principle of the gospel we study, we ask ourselves the same 258 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:54,720 three questions. 259 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:58,280 Number one, what is it? 260 00:16:58,280 --> 00:16:59,280 What is it? 261 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:00,280 What is faith? 262 00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:01,760 What is repentance? 263 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:02,760 What is hope? 264 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:04,640 What is charity? 265 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:10,080 So when you study the gospel and you're studying principles, that's the first question you should 266 00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:12,680 answer is what is it? 267 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:16,800 The second is how can I obtain it? 268 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:19,240 How can I obtain it? 269 00:17:19,240 --> 00:17:25,880 What do I have to do or or what do I have to know or how can I develop it? 270 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:27,760 It's the how. 271 00:17:27,760 --> 00:17:35,400 And the third question is what are the blessings that flow into it or the promises? 272 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:37,480 What are the blessings and promises? 273 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:43,760 This kind of provides motivation in some ways of being able to obtain it. 274 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:50,520 What are the promises or blessings that flow into our life from that principle? 275 00:17:50,520 --> 00:17:55,720 I would maybe add a fourth question and that is why is it important? 276 00:17:55,720 --> 00:18:04,480 So as we as we go through now as we move into the principle of repentance, we'll kind of 277 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:13,120 follow something of that order and in in again the Elder Anderson's book, the Divine Gift 278 00:18:13,120 --> 00:18:19,280 of Forgiveness, when we talk about repentance, I think it's really critical when you want 279 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:27,040 to understand what it is, is first to understand what it is not. 280 00:18:27,040 --> 00:18:32,600 And I think that's true for a lot of principles of the gospel, Scott, to understand to understand 281 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:39,440 what it is, it's helpful to first understand what it's not. 282 00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:42,640 I learned that from Theodore Burton. 283 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:46,920 When I was a branch president at the missionary training center, Theodore Burton had given 284 00:18:46,920 --> 00:18:53,280 an amazing, our listeners can look this up and it was a BYU speeches by Theodore Burton. 285 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:57,200 I can't remember the title of it, but it was on repentance. 286 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:07,800 And Theodore M Burton back in the 80s, sometime gave this talk on what repentance is not. 287 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:12,880 And he taught me really in that talk that to really understand what it is, you got to 288 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:15,040 understand what it's not. 289 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:21,600 So let's let's begin by defining it by understanding what it's not. 290 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:23,560 Did you find the talk? 291 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,080 Is it called the meaning of repentance? 292 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:26,080 Yeah. 293 00:19:26,080 --> 00:19:27,080 1985. 294 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:28,560 The meaning of repentance. 295 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,560 Yeah. 296 00:19:29,560 --> 00:19:32,040 So that is such an amazing talk. 297 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:37,200 Yeah, it's a you can Google search that just to look up Theodore M Burton. 298 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:42,760 I just put in Theodore M Burton and then what repentance is not. 299 00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:43,960 That just actually came up. 300 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:45,480 So the meaning of repentance. 301 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:46,480 The meaning of repentance. 302 00:19:46,480 --> 00:19:53,040 That is one of the best talks on repentance that I've ever read to this day. 303 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:58,200 You know, President Nelson is doing such an amazing job teaching it, but that still is 304 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:05,360 a for me a go to an understanding what repentance is not and therefore understanding as he gets 305 00:20:05,360 --> 00:20:09,640 in and develops that talk to talk about what it is. 306 00:20:09,640 --> 00:20:18,360 Well, when Elder Anderson, I were beginning to work on this chapter in the book, I had 307 00:20:18,360 --> 00:20:25,360 presented some ideas and my thoughts and feelings and my outline and my quotes and I had sent 308 00:20:25,360 --> 00:20:27,280 it up to him with the title. 309 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:34,320 I suggested that the title for this chapter be the miss of repentance. 310 00:20:34,320 --> 00:20:41,760 That's how I that's how I taught it for years and you know, in my classes at UBU and so 311 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:48,160 I kind of chuckled and as I read his, his new title. 312 00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:54,880 He retitled it and he called it, you know, miss was just too strong of a word for him. 313 00:20:54,880 --> 00:21:02,800 You know, he's just so kind and so gentle as I think all of the 12 are really. 314 00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,800 And so he sent, he sent it back to me and he'd retitled it. 315 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,280 The detours of repentance. 316 00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,160 Anyway, and I, I think this is one of my favorite. 317 00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:20,680 This is one of my favorite chapters of the book, Scott, it's chapter 13 in the book, 318 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:24,640 the mind gift of forgiveness. 319 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:32,240 But this, this really, as I taught this over the years, Scott, I thought I, I witnessed 320 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:39,640 so many students have aha moments because they had completely misunderstood really 321 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:46,920 what repentance was because they didn't know what it wasn't. 322 00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:53,040 And anyway, this is kind of a, this is kind of a fun chapter and a, and a fun part of 323 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:54,760 this course. 324 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,600 So let's, let's just jump into it. 325 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:57,600 Yeah. 326 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:00,480 Before we do though, Dave, I just want to comment on this because this is one of those 327 00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:05,800 things I don't think, you know, that your missionaries at the MTC and your students as 328 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:12,520 they've gone through this, and you know, they've had that experience, that aha moment, that's 329 00:22:12,520 --> 00:22:14,040 available for us too. 330 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,480 I mean, I don't care where you are in terms of maturity and how long you've been part 331 00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:23,720 of the church or how deep and strong your testimony is, there may be some aha moments 332 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:25,520 available for all of us here. 333 00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:30,640 And so my invitation as we go through this, don't just say, yeah, I get all that and, 334 00:22:30,640 --> 00:22:35,240 and assume and pass through, pass, pass, pass by all of the things that we're about to talk 335 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:36,240 about here. 336 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:41,880 I know you can fast forward, but I'd recommend not doing that because it's been my experience 337 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,360 that every time we teach this, there's aha moments available to just about all of us. 338 00:22:46,360 --> 00:22:48,840 So without in mind, let's go ahead and proceed, Dave. 339 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:51,560 Well, this chapter is such an important one, I think for E.C. 340 00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:52,560 Leasticle leaders. 341 00:22:52,560 --> 00:22:53,560 Yeah, 100%. 342 00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:56,880 You know, my, my experience is in the church in the E.C. 343 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:59,080 Leasticle positions. 344 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:06,480 This is a chapter that I've been invited by state presidents and others to, to actually 345 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:13,360 teach to their council of bishops because there's just so much misunderstanding, I think about 346 00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:16,960 what repentance is and what it's not. 347 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:24,880 And I think this, this really helps clarify what it is when you understand what it isn't. 348 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:34,280 So I, I think the first one is just really powerful and important and elder Nelson blesses 349 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:40,200 our, I'm so grateful for how he has, he has taught this, but before him, this was not 350 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:45,000 always taught as strongly as he has taught it. 351 00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:57,640 And that is repentance is not, is not the punishment, penalty or payment for sin. 352 00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:04,520 Scott, there's been so many people spend their wills because they thought that they were 353 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,600 saved by grace after all they could do. 354 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:12,040 And they thought all they could do was that they had to work out their repentance, which 355 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,880 meant that they had to be punished for it. 356 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:16,520 They had to suffer for it. 357 00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:20,960 They had to, in some degree, they had to make payment for it. 358 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:31,920 I mean, Scott, I hate to admit this, but my, my early elementary understanding of repentance 359 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:38,080 when I was a new seminary teacher, honestly, I'm sure I must have taught this because it's 360 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:44,880 how I understood it until, until I really got into the missionary training center and 361 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:49,320 had to really learn about it, trying to help young missionaries repent. 362 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:53,040 But I used to teach that, okay, you're saved by grace after all you can do. 363 00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,400 So how much of the sin can you pay for? 364 00:24:55,400 --> 00:25:02,720 And I used to share the example of when my, my mother caught me stealing lifesavers. 365 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:08,000 You know, we went in, I had worked at the dry cleaners, you know, they're an American 366 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,880 health work and next to them, next to the dry cleaners was his five and dime store. 367 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:12,880 Sprouse Ritz. 368 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:13,880 Sprouse Ritz. 369 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:18,920 They, I think it said, had a nickel and 10 cents and we used to call it the old five 370 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,240 and dime. 371 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:24,720 So anyway, that was right next to the cleaners. 372 00:25:24,720 --> 00:25:31,080 And as a boy, I'd walk over there and brother crots, the, the manager, you know, the store, 373 00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:33,680 he always wave at me and they were always so nice. 374 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:38,600 I was some good friends with the, the checkout ladies and then I'd walk down the candy aisle 375 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:44,240 and I'd just take it a little pack of chocolate lifesavers and put it in my pocket and walk 376 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:50,560 out and it got to be, I kind of got addicted on chocolate lifesavers. 377 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:52,760 So wait a minute, chocolate lifesavers. 378 00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:53,760 Chocolate lifesavers. 379 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:54,760 Do they make this? 380 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,280 And they were four cents a pack. 381 00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:57,360 Do they still make those? 382 00:25:57,360 --> 00:25:58,360 I don't think so. 383 00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,000 Man, I think I'd be interested in that. 384 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:01,560 Oh, they were so good, Scott. 385 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:02,800 That's, that's my addiction. 386 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,800 I feel like my childhood has just started. 387 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:06,800 Yeah, yeah. 388 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,600 Anyway, they were four cents a pack and I'd just put a pack in my pocket and I'd walk 389 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:17,400 over to cleaners and go in the back and hide myself somewhere and, and eat, eat the chocolate 390 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:18,400 lifesavers. 391 00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:26,160 Well, I was like in the third grade and first week of school, that was the summer where 392 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:27,160 I started that. 393 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:32,000 And the first week of school, Billy Allen and I were walking home and I said, Hey, Bill, 394 00:26:32,000 --> 00:26:33,000 I got it. 395 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:34,000 I got it. 396 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:35,000 I got to show you something. 397 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,360 And I figured out how to get some free lifesavers. 398 00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:41,400 So I said, Bill, you just, you just kind of stand out here and, and I'm going to get 399 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:42,840 some lifesavers. 400 00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:49,360 So on the way home as we were walking home, I wish I shouldn't be laughing. 401 00:26:49,360 --> 00:26:51,840 I'm sorry. 402 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:57,920 I walked in to grab, grab a couple packs of chocolate lifesavers. 403 00:26:57,920 --> 00:27:00,120 One for me, one for Billy. 404 00:27:00,120 --> 00:27:04,880 And I, I went to walk out and Billy wasn't around and I was a little nervous. 405 00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:09,040 So I thought, well, I'm going to step in the cleaners till I can find Billy or I didn't 406 00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:10,040 know where he went. 407 00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:14,760 And as I turned the corner and I go into the dry cleaners, there's Billy in the dry cleaners 408 00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,840 telling my mom what I'm doing. 409 00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:19,960 Billy Allen is snitching on you. 410 00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:26,960 I guess, you know, so Bill Allen grew to be like, I don't know, six, 10. 411 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:27,960 This guy's a big man. 412 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:28,960 Oh yeah. 413 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,040 He was a star, he's starting tight end at BYU football. 414 00:27:33,040 --> 00:27:37,480 So he wasn't too worried about the saying stitches get snitches, snitches get stitches. 415 00:27:37,480 --> 00:27:38,480 He wasn't too worried about that. 416 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:44,320 No, and he wasn't, you know, and I'm, and I regret that I was such a poor example to 417 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:45,320 him. 418 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,600 You know, it's probably the reason he's, he's really not in church. 419 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,600 Oh yeah. 420 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,520 I'm sure that's exactly the reason, Dave. 421 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,480 He's kind of your lifesaver. 422 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:55,040 Anyway, I love, I love him. 423 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:58,480 He was one of the first ones to wish me happy birthday on my birthday, by the way. 424 00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,480 Really cool. 425 00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:01,800 Anyway, there he is. 426 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:08,440 My mother looks up and sees me standing in the glass doorway and, and she motions to 427 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:12,600 me like this and she just says, Billy, you, you better go home. 428 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,880 And my mom just let me have it. 429 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,880 Just let me have it. 430 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:23,160 And I remember, you know, anyway, I won't tell you all the details, but she made me 431 00:28:23,160 --> 00:28:29,040 sit in the front, crying my eyes out, customers coming in and looking at me. 432 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:35,280 And then when she had a minute, she took me by the, probably by the year and took me over 433 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:42,280 to five and 10 and walked back to Brother Crotts, who was in our bishopric, by the way, in our 434 00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:43,280 ward. 435 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:45,280 He held seventh ward. 436 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:51,440 And, and anyway, she said, David, David needs to tell you something, Brother Crotts. 437 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,520 And I confess stealing lifesavers. 438 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,720 And he said, how many packs have you taken? 439 00:28:56,720 --> 00:28:58,800 I said, I don't know. 440 00:28:58,800 --> 00:28:59,800 I don't know. 441 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:00,800 Maybe a hundred. 442 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:02,800 I didn't know. 443 00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:03,800 Wow. 444 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:04,800 Yeah. 445 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:09,440 He kept wondering why he was running out of chocolate lifesavers and none others probably. 446 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:10,440 Yeah. 447 00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:11,440 Inventory. 448 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,360 Anyway, I think what's four cents times a hundred. 449 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:15,360 Four dollars. 450 00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:18,120 So my mother pulls out five dollars. 451 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:23,480 My mother pulls five dollars out of her purse and gives it to me and I give it to him. 452 00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:28,200 And then she says, you know, you'll work, you'll work that out. 453 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,720 You know, you're, you're, you're going to work that off. 454 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:33,320 You owe me five dollars. 455 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:38,400 Well that was my, that was kind of, as I remember it, one of the first acts of repentance after 456 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,600 I was baptized and in the third grade. 457 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:47,360 And I used to kind of sometimes tell that story and say, so how much of the sin did 458 00:29:47,360 --> 00:29:48,360 I pay for? 459 00:29:48,360 --> 00:29:49,360 Yeah. 460 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:51,800 How much of the sin did I pay for? 461 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:59,040 Uh, 10% 5% 2% 1% I mean, I had to pay something. 462 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,680 There had to be something paid. 463 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:08,000 Well, if you're just going off mathematical, you paid 125% because you know, you paid 464 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:09,000 five. 465 00:30:09,000 --> 00:30:10,680 That's for the lifesaver, but not for the sin. 466 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:13,160 How much of the sin did I pay for? 467 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:19,200 So I used to teach that, Hey, you have to pay something and until you pay something, 468 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,400 then Jesus is a toman, doesn't really kick in. 469 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:27,320 Scott, that's just false doctors. 470 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:28,800 You can't pay back anything. 471 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:29,800 Yeah. 472 00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,760 You know, man can merit nothing of himself. 473 00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:36,920 I don't know why that scripture wasn't on the forefront of my mind back then. 474 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:37,920 When you were in third grade. 475 00:30:37,920 --> 00:30:42,120 No, no, when I was starting, when you were teaching, when I was teaching this, I don't 476 00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:49,000 know why I was not more in tune with, with how salvation and redemption works, but, but 477 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:51,200 man is nothing. 478 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:58,960 And anyway, so I just, uh, you're saved by grace after all you can do after all you can 479 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,040 do means all we can do is repent. 480 00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:11,880 But there is no payment, no payment, no punishment, no penalty in repentance for sin. 481 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,960 Yes, there may be punishment. 482 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:16,960 Yes, there may be consequences. 483 00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:24,480 Yes, there may be some suffering and it may feel like payment, but it's not for the sin. 484 00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:33,200 There are natural consequences, Scott, that are the result of our sins and they're, that's 485 00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:34,200 right. 486 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:39,480 That's good to keep us from, from sinning more often than we do, but that doesn't bring 487 00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:40,800 forgiveness. 488 00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:47,160 That doesn't, that doesn't put into our lives divine forgiveness or redemption. 489 00:31:47,160 --> 00:31:52,640 I mean, just because someone's caught for murder and they spend the rest of their life 490 00:31:52,640 --> 00:32:02,280 in prison or even if they, their life capital punishment, if their life were taken, it doesn't 491 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:15,400 absolve them of their sins, only Jesus Christ can do that and he paid for all the sins of 492 00:32:15,400 --> 00:32:25,840 all the world, all of it, all the sins, all of all the sins of all the world. 493 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:32,480 And until someone I think really understands that, Scott, then they, it really holds them 494 00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:40,160 back from repenting because they're not sure if they're ready to make the payment that 495 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:45,560 they think they need to make or pay the price that they think they need to pay in order 496 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:53,600 to ask God to forgive them or for Jesus' atonement to cover them. 497 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:54,600 That's a problem. 498 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:59,560 I think that one thing delays, potentially delays so much potential repentance that could 499 00:32:59,560 --> 00:33:07,120 take place because of that fear, that misunderstanding, that fear that is attached to that can just 500 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,200 be absolutely spiritually crippling towards us, to us, Dave. 501 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,000 Yeah, absolutely. 502 00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,680 And maybe we should look in the scriptures for just a minute. 503 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:22,000 I brought up that scripture in the second Nephi, I think it's 25, Scott, saved by grace 504 00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:28,240 after all we can do and I can tell you a story about that in Nauvoo, standing on a corner 505 00:33:28,240 --> 00:33:35,320 and hearing this youth pastor, he was a youth pastor for a church when they were doing the 506 00:33:35,320 --> 00:33:37,480 open house for the Nauvoo temple. 507 00:33:37,480 --> 00:33:41,040 By the way, what great news about the Kirtland Temple. 508 00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,080 Oh yeah, Kirtland Temple and all the Joseph Smith properties. 509 00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:44,080 Yeah, isn't that awesome? 510 00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:45,080 Holy cow. 511 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:46,080 That's so exciting. 512 00:33:46,080 --> 00:33:49,640 Yeah, I just got absolutely excited when I heard that. 513 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:55,440 When the Nauvoo temple was built and we were having an open house, this young youth pastor 514 00:33:55,440 --> 00:34:01,760 standing on the corner and I was a Delta IV, I was part of the security force. 515 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:02,760 Delta IV sounds pretty efficient. 516 00:34:02,760 --> 00:34:03,760 It was. 517 00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:11,360 I had an earpiece and a mouthpiece and I looked tough standing on that corner, tried to scare 518 00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:17,000 away any terrorists or bad people away. 519 00:34:17,000 --> 00:34:18,520 That's a sight to behold, I'm sure. 520 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:23,360 And it was fun for me to stand there all day and listen to this youth pastor read from 521 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:31,600 our own scriptures to put us down or to express anti-Mormon views. 522 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:39,720 And he just kept pounding this scripture and it was so, well, I don't know, I wouldn't 523 00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:40,720 maybe say fun. 524 00:34:40,720 --> 00:34:45,920 It was interesting and sometimes a little sad to watch how people would try to defend 525 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:49,240 our faith arguing that we don't believe this scripture. 526 00:34:49,240 --> 00:34:55,920 And you know, this is a second E.Fight 25-23 where we labor diligently to write, to persuade 527 00:34:55,920 --> 00:35:01,000 our children and also our brother to believe in Christ and to be reconciled to God. 528 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:07,640 For we know that it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do. 529 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:14,240 Well, I remember one young mother, she had a couple of children, toddlers, and she had 530 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,400 a baby and a baby carriage. 531 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,960 Man, she came by there and said, we don't believe that. 532 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,120 He says, right here in your own scriptures. 533 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:23,520 It's right here in your own scriptures. 534 00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:26,640 And she said, well, we have to suffer. 535 00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:29,320 We have to do things when we repent. 536 00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,000 You know, when we sin, we have to pay for it. 537 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,440 She was so, she was such a great defender of the faith. 538 00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:41,640 But I remember thinking, wow, I'm so sorry that she doesn't understand what she's really 539 00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:48,320 saying and how she is denying the atonement of Jesus Christ by thinking that Jesus did 540 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,960 not pay for all of all the sins of all the world. 541 00:35:53,960 --> 00:35:59,640 And I, after standing there, I was told I couldn't say anything to anybody really until 542 00:35:59,640 --> 00:36:05,000 after my shift was over and when my shift was over and I took out my earpiece and all 543 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:06,880 that equipment put in my pocket. 544 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:17,400 But I walked over this youth pastor and apologized to him for what some people had said. 545 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:24,160 And I had to explain to him, nobody believes in grace and no one believes in more grace 546 00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,160 than we do. 547 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,160 Then we do. 548 00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:27,160 Right. 549 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,520 And I, and he and I had a really interesting conversation and I took the copy of the Book 550 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:35,400 of Mormon that he had and turned to scriptures in the Book of Mormon that talk about man 551 00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,360 can merit nothing of himself. 552 00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:44,160 How many times that's in the Book of Mormon that we can merit nothing of ourselves and 553 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:50,560 how the atonement of Jesus Christ covers everything, including children and unconditionally and 554 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:57,040 how anyway, we went through that all those scriptures and he said, wow, I, okay, thank 555 00:36:57,040 --> 00:36:58,040 you. 556 00:36:58,040 --> 00:36:59,680 I didn't understand all of that. 557 00:36:59,680 --> 00:37:05,280 Anyway, I don't, I'm sure he didn't enjoy the church or necessarily changes his feelings 558 00:37:05,280 --> 00:37:11,400 towards probably LDS, but I didn't see him on the corner the next day. 559 00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:19,240 And I've often wondered, you know, how many of us in the church misunderstand this, this 560 00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:23,000 verse of scripture and what repentance really is. 561 00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:27,600 So there's all kinds of different ways that you can interpret this verse. 562 00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:34,640 We're saved by grace or it is by grace that we are saved after all we can do. 563 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:38,920 I heard an interesting interpretation of this recently. 564 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:45,300 It was that after all we can do is focus more on the law of Moses than it is the gospel 565 00:37:45,300 --> 00:37:52,760 of Jesus Christ and it's saved by grace is focused upon the, the pre Moses and law of 566 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:58,440 Moses and more post gospel of Jesus Christ. 567 00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:03,360 So after all we can do is, is something that related more to the law of Moses that they 568 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:06,280 had very strict laws and laws needed to be obeyed. 569 00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:08,080 Well, that's one, that's just one way. 570 00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:12,680 It's not my favorite way, but that's one way that this can be interpreted. 571 00:38:12,680 --> 00:38:18,200 If you read this whole chapter, Scott, and take all of it in context, you know, when 572 00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:24,040 he gets to the, the second to the last verse, read the second to the last verse in chapter 573 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:26,240 25, it's verse 29, Scott. 574 00:38:26,240 --> 00:38:31,320 So this verse 29, and now behold, I say unto you that the right way is to believe in Christ 575 00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:33,480 and deny him not. 576 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,360 And Christ is the Holy One of Israel. 577 00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:40,720 Wherefore you must bow down before him and worship him with all your might, might, mind 578 00:38:40,720 --> 00:38:43,660 and strength and your whole soul. 579 00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:46,940 And if you do this, you shall in no wise be cast out. 580 00:38:46,940 --> 00:38:48,400 So what do we have to do? 581 00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:49,400 Notice the word do. 582 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:55,680 If you do this, going back to the scripture in verse 23, you're saved by grace after all 583 00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:56,680 you can do. 584 00:38:56,680 --> 00:38:57,680 Yeah. 585 00:38:57,680 --> 00:38:58,680 What's all you can do? 586 00:38:58,680 --> 00:38:59,680 Worship him. 587 00:38:59,680 --> 00:39:02,680 That's all you can do. 588 00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:06,200 That's I think, I think that's what Nephi is saying. 589 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:14,520 All you can do means you worship him with all your might, mind and strength and your whole 590 00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:16,320 soul. 591 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:20,120 That's all you can do. 592 00:39:20,120 --> 00:39:30,600 And he says, and if you do this, if you do this, you shall know wise be cast out. 593 00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:36,000 And I have another cross reference that I want to, I think our listeners should put 594 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:45,000 this cross reference by second Nephi 25 verse 23, and that's Alma 24, verse 11. 595 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,840 So we go to Alma 24, verse 11, Scott. 596 00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:53,080 Let's read that verse. 597 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:59,360 So in verse, Alma 24, verse 11, you want to read? 598 00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:00,360 Yeah. 599 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:05,000 And now, now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do as we were 600 00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:09,520 the most lost of all mankind to repent of our sins. 601 00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:13,000 What's all we can do to repent of all our sins right here, right? 602 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:15,120 If you take out the parentheses there. 603 00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,240 Okay, so I'll read it without the parentheses. 604 00:40:17,240 --> 00:40:21,160 And now behold, my brethren, since it has been all that we could do to repent of all 605 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,400 our sins and the many murders which we have committed and to get God to take them away 606 00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:27,640 from our hearts. 607 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:31,760 And I love that to get God to take them away from our hearts for it was all we could do 608 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:36,480 to repent sufficiently before God that he would take away our stain. 609 00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,200 What's all we can do to repent? 610 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,760 That's all we can do. 611 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:43,960 That's what Nephi's saying. 612 00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:46,240 You're saved by grace after all you can do. 613 00:40:46,240 --> 00:40:52,240 And what's all you can do to repent to repent, which means to worship. 614 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:54,120 To means to fall down. 615 00:40:54,120 --> 00:40:56,000 It means to turn around. 616 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,640 It means to come unto me. 617 00:40:58,640 --> 00:41:03,520 We'll talk about what repentance is in another podcast, but it means all of that. 618 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,840 That's all we can do. 619 00:41:06,840 --> 00:41:10,760 All we can do does not mean making any payment. 620 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,480 It is not the penalty. 621 00:41:12,480 --> 00:41:15,760 It is not the punishment for sin. 622 00:41:15,760 --> 00:41:23,440 And for people to have any misconception about that, we'll keep them from repenting. 623 00:41:23,440 --> 00:41:25,520 Repentance is worship. 624 00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:31,520 Repentance is moving towards Christ, turning around, putting the sins at their back and 625 00:41:31,520 --> 00:41:38,880 facing Jesus Christ and moving towards Him, loving Him, serving Him, worshiping Him. 626 00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:39,880 That's repentance. 627 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:41,800 It is not a punishment. 628 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:43,660 It is not a penalty. 629 00:41:43,660 --> 00:41:47,560 It is not any zero percent of sin. 630 00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:51,880 And we spoke about Brother Matthews who wrote the Bible dictionary. 631 00:41:51,880 --> 00:42:00,160 And in my discussion with Brother Matthews about this, Brother Matthews said, David, 632 00:42:00,160 --> 00:42:05,660 we can pay zero percent. 633 00:42:05,660 --> 00:42:07,800 We cannot pay. 634 00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,080 And this is in the Elder Anderson's book. 635 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:18,360 We cannot pay one millionth of one percent of any sin that we commit. 636 00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:20,160 You just can't. 637 00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,200 You broke a divine law and you're immortal. 638 00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,440 You can't make any payment. 639 00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:27,040 I don't care if you give your life for it. 640 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:29,720 You can't give your life. 641 00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:35,120 You can't suffer enough for any sin you commit. 642 00:42:35,120 --> 00:42:38,000 No amount of payment, no amount of restitution. 643 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:46,880 My mother paying $5 for a $4 fine did not pay for my sin, paid for the lifesavers. 644 00:42:46,880 --> 00:42:49,680 You can make payment to society. 645 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:55,840 You can do all that you can do to make up for what you did, but you cannot make any 646 00:42:55,840 --> 00:43:06,200 payment for the sin or the breach of a broken law of God. 647 00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:09,360 Only a God could do that. 648 00:43:09,360 --> 00:43:13,960 Well, and a God that has fulfilled the events of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 649 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,160 Who was sinless? 650 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:23,880 Only a sinless divine being could do that. 651 00:43:23,880 --> 00:43:32,600 I just, I know, I hope some lights are going on right now in people's minds about, wow, 652 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:37,040 you know, because honestly, it has been so misunderstood, I think. 653 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,040 Oh, yeah. 654 00:43:38,040 --> 00:43:39,040 Scott. 655 00:43:39,040 --> 00:43:43,240 Dave, so if we can just let me just share some of my experience around this misunderstanding, 656 00:43:43,240 --> 00:43:47,280 you know, I think most of our listeners probably know and I know we get new ones in from time 657 00:43:47,280 --> 00:43:48,280 to time. 658 00:43:48,280 --> 00:43:53,680 But, you know, my life and David's life have seemingly had a lot of parallels, but there's 659 00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:57,040 been a lot of diversion between the two as well. 660 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:03,040 You know, for example, you know, I spent a good portion of my life involved in sinning 661 00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:08,280 in the throes of addiction, alcoholism, drug addiction and much, much more. 662 00:44:08,280 --> 00:44:11,920 You know, since that repentance process has been different from me. 663 00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:16,120 You know, I've been sober 25 years and it's a lot different today than it was then. 664 00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:17,960 But Dave, that's how I saw this. 665 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:23,640 You know, this is how I saw repentance in the past was, you know, I, and the problem 666 00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:28,120 with that is for people who have made what we, you know, big sins, little sins, even 667 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,760 little sins can create and I hate to differentiate, but because all sins sin. 668 00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,760 But you know, the big sins, little sins, I had thought that my sins, big sins were so 669 00:44:36,760 --> 00:44:41,840 big that there's just no possible way I would ever be able to work my way back. 670 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:46,480 And I know I'm not alone when I think that I have to work my way back. 671 00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,800 That seems like an impossibility I give up. 672 00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,040 Well, working my way back has not. 673 00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:54,840 Well, it has something to do with me, but way less. 674 00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:59,680 You have to make some effort, but it has way less to do with me than I thought it did. 675 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:04,800 And what it does have to do with me has been totally rewritten in my mind and on my heart. 676 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:06,400 It's completely different. 677 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,400 Completely. 678 00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:08,400 Completely different. 679 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:13,360 And I got to tell you the relief and encouragement, even still when I'm thinking about it, even 680 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:21,120 in this moment, praise God for that understanding, because that understanding has relieved me from 681 00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:28,360 the bondage of guilt and shame and all other things like unto it, that the enemy, the accuser 682 00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,440 would put in front of me and have me believe about myself. 683 00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:34,680 Well, think of the relief that I've had. 684 00:45:34,680 --> 00:45:39,400 Think of the relief that each of our listeners could embrace or could have if we were to 685 00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:45,240 just capitulate our belief or our understanding around the payment for sin. 686 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,040 I can't pay for sin. 687 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,840 I never have been able to. 688 00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:50,160 Never can and you never will. 689 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,200 And it was never intended for me to. 690 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,600 Sure, I suffer the consequences of sin. 691 00:45:54,600 --> 00:45:59,800 Sure, there's sadness and pain that comes into my life as a result of sin, but that 692 00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:02,640 is not punishment for my sin. 693 00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:08,560 It's direct result of just what we call, you know, I don't know what's natural consequence. 694 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:09,560 There you go. 695 00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:10,560 Just consequences. 696 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:12,320 The natural consequences of sinning. 697 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:13,320 Yeah. 698 00:46:13,320 --> 00:46:15,680 Of going against the light of Christ. 699 00:46:15,680 --> 00:46:16,980 There are consequences. 700 00:46:16,980 --> 00:46:20,440 You cannot find happiness in sin. 701 00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:25,120 People may find pleasure for a time, but eventually it's going to come back and they're going 702 00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:26,720 to hit rock bottom. 703 00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:31,640 And even when you hit rock bottom, that's not any payment for sin. 704 00:46:31,640 --> 00:46:37,240 No, you know, we, when we read the scripture in doctrine, covenant section six, I think 705 00:46:37,240 --> 00:46:41,520 it's verse 33 where it says, doubt not fear not look unto me in every thought. 706 00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:42,520 Right. 707 00:46:42,520 --> 00:46:50,040 And, and I read that now and I do look unto him and I try to do it more frequently. 708 00:46:50,040 --> 00:46:56,880 I'd, you know, but the point is, is that as I do look unto him for that payment of sin, 709 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:04,600 I, I'm my goodness, you know, here is Jesus Christ paying for Scott Durfee's sin. 710 00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,480 Scott Durfee, I'm responsible and I will have to deal with consequences and so much 711 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:10,480 other stuff. 712 00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:14,760 There will be some suffering totally different though than it was before, but that suffering 713 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:21,200 that you experience in your repentance is not any punishment, payment or, or penalty 714 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:22,200 for sin. 715 00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:23,760 And it feels different because of it. 716 00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:24,760 Yeah, absolutely. 717 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:28,160 That is, that's really a great point. 718 00:47:28,160 --> 00:47:31,160 So I, I'm not being at all critical. 719 00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:37,160 In fact, the quote of president of Kimball is in elder Anderson's book out of our respect 720 00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:38,160 for him. 721 00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:44,680 In elder, in elder president Kimball's book, the divine, the miracle of forgiveness for 722 00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:45,680 so many years. 723 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:52,600 And I heard seminary teachers and priesthood leaders quote this, that unless you have suffered, 724 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:56,600 you have not repented. 725 00:47:56,600 --> 00:48:01,920 And so they took that to mean that's part of the classical leaders and members. 726 00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:08,400 My own saintly wife included this completely held her back for years until she was like 727 00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:09,400 40 years old. 728 00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,040 And then the experience we shared when she was crying one day and I come home and, and 729 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,360 she tells me she's never going to be good enough. 730 00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,760 And the reason she said she's never going to be good enough is because she kept making 731 00:48:19,760 --> 00:48:26,080 the same mistakes and she, she came to realize I can never do enough. 732 00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:32,040 And if I can't do enough, then grace, the grace of Christ will never kick in for me 733 00:48:32,040 --> 00:48:33,720 because of the, all you can do. 734 00:48:33,720 --> 00:48:34,720 Yeah. 735 00:48:34,720 --> 00:48:36,800 She was hung up on all you can do. 736 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,440 And she knew she could never do enough. 737 00:48:39,440 --> 00:48:45,160 And then she has that epiphany that she knew that she was good enough because he, Jesus 738 00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,480 Christ was good enough. 739 00:48:47,480 --> 00:48:55,800 Anyway, for years, so many people were, I think, misunderstanding what president Kimball was 740 00:48:55,800 --> 00:48:57,200 really said. 741 00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:02,600 He said, if you, if you haven't suffered, you haven't sinned or you, I'm sorry, if you 742 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:07,800 haven't suffered because of your sin, you haven't repented. 743 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:17,640 Anyway, Scott, I'm, you know, I'm just sad that people think that they had any ability 744 00:49:17,640 --> 00:49:24,720 to make any payment or pay for any penalty for their sins. 745 00:49:24,720 --> 00:49:30,360 The doctrine covenant section 19 verse four, Scott makes repentance sounds like it's just 746 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:32,080 the opposite of suffering. 747 00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,000 Now I know they're suffering in repentance. 748 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,280 I know president Kimball was right. 749 00:49:36,280 --> 00:49:37,280 It's true. 750 00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:38,800 President Kimball's right. 751 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:43,320 If you haven't suffered, you probably haven't repented because you haven't felt the effects 752 00:49:43,320 --> 00:49:44,320 of your sin. 753 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:49,640 Scott, when we get into talking about the process of repentance, we're going to talk about, 754 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:51,920 you have to have a broken heart and contrite spirit. 755 00:49:51,920 --> 00:49:55,040 Well, that's not comfortable. 756 00:49:55,040 --> 00:49:56,440 You suffer. 757 00:49:56,440 --> 00:49:58,160 There's definitely suffering. 758 00:49:58,160 --> 00:50:02,920 A broken heart hurts a contrite spirit. 759 00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:08,080 There's some suffering in that you will suffer when you sin. 760 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:09,080 Amen. 761 00:50:09,080 --> 00:50:10,080 Amen. 762 00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:13,880 To a large degree though, Dave, some of our suffering is optional. 763 00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,200 Amen. 764 00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:16,640 We get to choose that. 765 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,840 We get to decide how much suffering will I impose on myself. 766 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:28,280 You know, because in a very kind of a twisted way, we almost, and I'm really reticent to 767 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,280 put it this way, but we play God. 768 00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:37,760 We play judge and executioner and jury all at the same time, and we're really, really 769 00:50:37,760 --> 00:50:38,760 hard on ourselves. 770 00:50:38,760 --> 00:50:41,160 And, you know, we can't blame ourselves for this. 771 00:50:41,160 --> 00:50:47,400 This is a bit of a learning process that we've grown into or grown up with or what have you. 772 00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:52,520 And, you know, again, you said it earlier, but this is one of the things that when, well, 773 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:53,520 let me put it this way. 774 00:50:53,520 --> 00:50:59,880 I had a lady come up to me fairly recently, someone that I know fairly well in my ward, 775 00:50:59,880 --> 00:51:00,880 actually. 776 00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:04,960 And with tears in her eyes, she looked at me and said, thank you for helping me. 777 00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:05,960 And it's not me. 778 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:06,960 I'm not helping her. 779 00:51:06,960 --> 00:51:08,200 You're helping her more than I am. 780 00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,920 And, you know, it's the spirit actually that's helping. 781 00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:15,200 But she said, thank you for your podcast and help me to understand that it's not up to 782 00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:19,160 me, that it's not up to me. 783 00:51:19,160 --> 00:51:26,160 And it's so liberating for people to understand that Jesus, I mean, Scott, it's dozens of 784 00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:29,320 times in the scriptures that Jesus suffered. 785 00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:30,320 He paid. 786 00:51:30,320 --> 00:51:34,800 He, he was punished for all of the sins of all the world. 787 00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:40,560 And I believe that even includes the sins that are not repented of the payment is made. 788 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,120 The ticket is there. 789 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:48,360 The ticket is waiting at will call for people to turn around and face a savior and get back 790 00:51:48,360 --> 00:51:51,280 to will call and pick up the ticket. 791 00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,040 And there is there's, is there's things they have to do? 792 00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:55,040 Yes. 793 00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:56,040 Do they have to qualify for that? 794 00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:57,040 For the gift? 795 00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:58,040 Yes. 796 00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,040 Certainly. 797 00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:00,040 Yes. 798 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:01,040 There's things you have to do. 799 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:04,200 You have to, what it, what's all you can do? 800 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:09,160 Repent and worship him, serve him, worship him with all your heart, mind and strength 801 00:52:09,160 --> 00:52:10,640 and whole soul. 802 00:52:10,640 --> 00:52:11,640 Yeah. 803 00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:24,920 But it's not no part of redemption and salvation is, is out of our paying for our sins or being 804 00:52:24,920 --> 00:52:31,440 punished for our sins or making any sort of payment or receiving any punishment anyway. 805 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:33,760 Well, so you can see why we don't just start here. 806 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:34,760 Yeah. 807 00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:35,760 Right. 808 00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:37,440 You can see why we don't just come out of the gate in the podcast. 809 00:52:37,440 --> 00:52:39,720 Say, here we are, season three, episode one. 810 00:52:39,720 --> 00:52:40,720 Here's what repentance is. 811 00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:42,560 We're going to talk about repentance. 812 00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:45,240 If we did that, David, it would be a mess. 813 00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:46,240 Absolutely. 814 00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:51,080 You know, so we have to line up online, precept upon precept here a little there a little, 815 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:56,600 learn and gain this experience and this knowledge and this testimony, right? 816 00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:57,600 Witness. 817 00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,400 Through the blood of the lamb and through the word of our testimony, right? 818 00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,160 Then we are able to proceed. 819 00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:10,400 That's why it has been so important that we've talked about the events of the fall, the 820 00:53:10,400 --> 00:53:16,640 events of the atonement of Jesus Christ, why they were so important and how those events 821 00:53:16,640 --> 00:53:20,080 offset the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve. 822 00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:24,560 And the last couple of weeks when we've talked about faith in the Lord Jesus Christ and in 823 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:31,200 that power that comes to us from faith, especially faith unto repentance, you know, now we're 824 00:53:31,200 --> 00:53:32,200 prepared. 825 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:36,240 Now we can begin to because of a great relationship that's been established with our Lord and 826 00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:37,360 Savior Jesus Christ. 827 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:42,000 Now we can move in to that repentance and we can actually grasp that, you know, he did 828 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:43,000 pay for it. 829 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,640 I have, I have had an experience over the last several weeks, months going through this 830 00:53:47,640 --> 00:53:52,680 course and now I can grasp that I'm ready to, to take that on. 831 00:53:52,680 --> 00:53:54,360 He paid for my sins. 832 00:53:54,360 --> 00:53:59,120 Everything that we've done, Scott, everything is just to lay a foundation. 833 00:53:59,120 --> 00:54:00,120 Right. 834 00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:01,120 It's just a foundation. 835 00:54:01,120 --> 00:54:06,440 But if you, if you try to build, if you try to build without the foundation, if you try 836 00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:14,520 to repent without everything that we've done so far in this course, it is going to be one 837 00:54:14,520 --> 00:54:17,240 frustrating, futile. 838 00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:21,400 Well, and sometimes, Dave, I would even argue that that could be damaging. 839 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:22,400 Yeah, damning. 840 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:23,400 Yeah. 841 00:54:23,400 --> 00:54:27,080 I've seen, I've seen, I've seen situations. 842 00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:33,240 I know you have to where faith gets challenged in this process because our testimonies aren't 843 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:38,800 sure because we don't have that grasp in that relationship with our Heavenly Father through 844 00:54:38,800 --> 00:54:41,480 Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost. 845 00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:46,760 I think one of the saddest things in my life, Scott, that I've witnessed and unfortunately 846 00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:55,920 over and over again so many times is a so-called faith crisis because people have just given 847 00:54:55,920 --> 00:54:56,920 up. 848 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,520 They've just thrown in the towel. 849 00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:04,200 They know they can never do enough speaking about saved by grace after all you can do. 850 00:55:04,200 --> 00:55:10,840 They finally come to the realization they can never do enough and they become just so 851 00:55:10,840 --> 00:55:17,880 tired and so weary, sometimes even in well-doing, which we've been commanded not to become weary 852 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:19,080 and well-doing. 853 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:25,600 And I think the, the whole key in not being weary and well-doing is to understand the doctrine 854 00:55:25,600 --> 00:55:30,360 of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the doctrine of Christ, faith, repentance. 855 00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:34,880 If you don't understand the doctrine and you don't understand these principles and you 856 00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:43,440 haven't laid a foundation, it is one frustrating faith crisis after another experience. 857 00:55:43,440 --> 00:55:48,760 And it just, it makes me so sad that people, it's kind of, Scott, in the, kind of in the 858 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,920 extreme, people who, who are trying to save themselves. 859 00:55:53,920 --> 00:55:59,120 It's a mockery, it really, it's a mockery of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 860 00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:05,080 So I know most of that's out of ignorance, but it's still a lack of understanding and 861 00:56:05,080 --> 00:56:08,880 can become a mockery of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 862 00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:11,520 Well, let's go, let's go to 19-4. 863 00:56:11,520 --> 00:56:13,040 You're going to read 19 verse 4. 864 00:56:13,040 --> 00:56:20,480 And surely every man must repent or suffer for I, God am endless. 865 00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,680 Repent or suffer. 866 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,760 Feels like they're opposites there to me, Scott. 867 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:27,000 Repentance and suffering. 868 00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:28,100 Repent or suffer. 869 00:56:28,100 --> 00:56:30,600 You can either repent or you can suffer. 870 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:35,000 And by the way, all the suffering in the world is not going to pay for your sins. 871 00:56:35,000 --> 00:56:41,880 You cannot, worlds without end, make any payment for any of your sins. 872 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,280 Jesus has paid for all of that. 873 00:56:45,280 --> 00:56:50,320 I remember, you know, Elder Anderson and I having a discussion about that. 874 00:56:50,320 --> 00:56:51,500 Do we believe? 875 00:56:51,500 --> 00:56:56,240 Do we believe that Jesus suffered for all the sins of all the world? 876 00:56:56,240 --> 00:56:57,240 Yes. 877 00:56:57,240 --> 00:57:02,840 Do we believe that he suffered for all the sin, all of the sin of all of the world? 878 00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:04,840 Yes. 879 00:57:04,840 --> 00:57:10,760 We don't believe in a God who would require double payment. 880 00:57:10,760 --> 00:57:15,440 Do we believe that God would have his son suffer for all the sins of all the world? 881 00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,280 And then that he would expect you to suffer and make any sort of payment towards that 882 00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:20,360 too? 883 00:57:20,360 --> 00:57:25,200 Do we think that justice requires a double payment? 884 00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:32,800 Our God is so full of grace and so full of mercy, Scott, that there was one payment and 885 00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,640 the rest of everything that we do and there is suffering. 886 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:41,800 And there, if you want to, if you want to think of it as payment or penalty, you can. 887 00:57:41,800 --> 00:57:51,560 All of that is to get back to Jesus Christ and to receive his atonement, because if we 888 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:56,480 don't receive his atonement, there will be no progress. 889 00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:03,800 Man again can merit nothing, zero nada of himself. 890 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:10,000 I just, we just can't stress that enough. 891 00:58:10,000 --> 00:58:18,720 So Scott, this is just one point of what repentance is not. 892 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:26,920 And understanding this one point can just, I think, really free people up to begin to 893 00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:34,360 exercise greater faith in the atonement of Jesus Christ than to simplify the process. 894 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:40,040 And to begin, to begin, even though we have several more points to make on what it's not, 895 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:47,280 but they can begin to see that there are things that we can do, that we should do in order 896 00:58:47,280 --> 00:58:53,360 to receive all of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. 897 00:58:53,360 --> 00:59:01,520 And I testify that I know that he paid, that he suffered, that he made the payment and 898 00:59:01,520 --> 00:59:07,600 suffered the penalty for all the sins of all the world. 899 00:59:07,600 --> 00:59:13,320 It is so interesting, Scott, I read this again, this the other day, in Thurneify chapter 11, 900 00:59:13,320 --> 00:59:19,320 how he introduces himself is just so interesting to me, when he appears to the people in the 901 00:59:19,320 --> 00:59:20,960 Americas. 902 00:59:20,960 --> 00:59:28,000 And the last part of his introduction of himself in verse 14, I'm just going to read this line, 903 00:59:28,000 --> 00:59:35,400 I am the God of Israel and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins 904 00:59:35,400 --> 00:59:38,760 of the world. 905 00:59:38,760 --> 00:59:42,480 That is over and over again in the Book of Mormon and Doctrine and Covenants only one 906 00:59:42,480 --> 00:59:44,120 time in the Bible. 907 00:59:44,120 --> 00:59:51,400 But Jesus introduces himself, this is the last point he makes in his introduction to the 908 00:59:51,400 --> 00:59:53,160 people in the Americas. 909 00:59:53,160 --> 01:00:01,160 I was slain for the sins plural of the world. 910 01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:05,160 I believe that covers all of them and I believe it covers all of it. 911 01:00:05,160 --> 01:00:11,280 And all we can do to receive the grace of mercy that can flow into our life from the 912 01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:18,280 atonement of Jesus Christ is to worship him with all of our heart, mind, mind, strength, 913 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:21,440 soul, our whole soul. 914 01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:27,600 And that's what repentance is ultimately, little preview. 915 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:33,880 That's what repentance ultimately is, is to give our whole soul to him, to worship him. 916 01:00:33,880 --> 01:00:37,840 But we'll get to that, we'll get more into the details of that after we talk about the 917 01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:41,280 other things of what repentance is not in future podcasts. 918 01:00:41,280 --> 01:00:46,880 The first principles and ordinances of the gospel are first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ 919 01:00:46,880 --> 01:00:49,320 and second repentance. 920 01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:52,000 And there's a reason that they're in this order. 921 01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:58,440 Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ is so absolutely critical to the process of repentance. 922 01:00:58,440 --> 01:01:03,840 If we don't have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, which requires us to know him, to believe 923 01:01:03,840 --> 01:01:07,040 him, to have that relationship with him. 924 01:01:07,040 --> 01:01:12,320 And as we establish that, then the process of repentance and the ability for us to accept 925 01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:17,720 his graces, his suffering for our own becomes so much easier. 926 01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,640 Our invitation this week would be for us to consider these things, especially as we 927 01:01:21,640 --> 01:01:25,600 partake of the sacrament for those of us who are able and for those of us who are not 928 01:01:25,600 --> 01:01:28,800 still make this part of your sacrament process. 929 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:34,040 Nonetheless, let's just think about how is our relationship with our Heavenly Father? 930 01:01:34,040 --> 01:01:39,880 What's our relationship with Jesus Christ like and how often are we filling the administration 931 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,760 of the atonement in our lives through the Holy Ghost? 932 01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:49,400 As we do that, we will have the ability and the opportunity to understand that Jesus Christ 933 01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:53,800 has truly paid and suffered for all the sins of all the world. 934 01:01:53,800 --> 01:01:57,640 It's our prayer that we all remember that throughout this week and always. 935 01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:14,680 Until we are together again, be well.