Hey there everybody and welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
Scott Durfey here, joined as always by David Durfey
How are you Dave?
Good Scott.
You're off your cruise.
Yeah.
I wish I was still there, but I'm here and I'm grateful.
Yeah, a little messy out there today.
Yeah, pretty snowy here on the Wasatch Front.
We're getting really wet, heavy snow today.
I just came out of the, not the Bahamas, the Caribbean.
Dev and I did a phenomenal cruise.
Is it Caribbean or Caribbean?
Yep.
It's either way I think.
I just, I think it's one of those potato potato things, right?
Yeah.
Yeah, we came out of the Caribbean and just had a phenomenal time.
But it's good to be back here and good to be talking about these things that are so
important to David and I and to all of us.
I know we're grateful for your emails.
Keep those coming.
You can send those to us at, heredeemsusatgmail.com.
We do have a couple that are in queue to be answered.
We'll get to those right away.
So be patient with us, please, as you send those.
But also we've got a couple that we'll be addressing here on the podcast as we go along
as well.
Anyway, we're anxious to get to rockin' and rollin' again, talkin' about these important
topics and so on.
So Dave, where are we startin' today?
Well, you know, Scott, this been on my mind recently because of a few conversations I've
had with individuals.
Some my sweet friends in the temple where I work and some with other friends and everybody.
There's not a family that is not affected by the sins and conditions and circumstances
and negativity and just the world, the world has infiltrated our homes, our families.
I remember Boykipacker used to say that if you have a TV in your home, the great and
spacious building is in your home.
That extends now to much more than just the TV, doesn't it?
Yeah, from, man.
Yeah, I think he said that before social media.
Yeah, he did.
Probably.
So think about how the great and spacious building is in our homes and how influential
the great and spacious building can be with our children in social media platforms and
the scorners, those who point their finger and scorn, those who mock, those who laugh,
those who, you know, I mean, that's the world that we live in, Scott.
Remember has the great and spacious building been more present and prevalent in our lives
than it is now.
I was driving down the freeway just yesterday right here in Happy Valley, Utah, Utah County,
Utah, and there's a sign and I'm not going to quote it exactly because I don't remember
it exactly, but it says something to the effect of social media can have a negative
effect on our mental health.
So yeah, I mean, we're even seeing it if it's recognized by the secular world that
that's the case, then we're in trouble.
Well those recent hearings they had a few weeks ago with Zuckerberg and Facebook and
him apologizing to families who had members commit suicide and they at least feel that
social media played a major role in that.
And I know he didn't apologize for what he did, but he just said he was sorry for what
they were feeling.
But the reality is that we are influenced by that and it's so sad that people, you know,
the saddest thing about I think social media for me, Scott, besides the negativity is
people think that they're connected.
When they use social media, they think they're connected.
When they read Facebook, they think they're connected.
It has nothing to do with being connected.
They're not being connected.
They're sitting in their room alone, laying on their bed alone, in their car alone, wherever
they are alone, looking at a screen.
Well that, Dave, is how the adversary functions.
I mean, think about everything that's counterfeit that the adversary puts in front of us.
Counterfeit love, counterfeit affection, counterfeit connection, counterfeit everything.
And it gets us to believe it.
Virtual reality, AI, now can fake all this stuff, fake voices, fake images, fake everything.
Even video now, right?
And what are you going to believe?
And who are you going to, you know, ultimately believe?
And who are you going to be connected with?
I don't know, Scott.
Anyway, I ran into a friend who is really close to a family whose daughter, this has
been in the news, whose child I should say really, been in the news, another suicide
in our, among our people.
And such a shock to the family, they had no idea what their child was going through, had
no idea that she had suicide ideations.
And, you know, they didn't even know that she, I just, and again, others who are losing
children to a faith crisis or children who are walking away from their faith.
I, I'm just really saddened by that.
However, great hope is in my heart and in my mind, everything, every time I think about
the promises of the prophets, in regards to the covenants, the reality of those covenants,
the sacred nature of the promises contained within those covenants.
And I, I really encourage all of those who are, maybe have any struggles with children
that they feel like they are losing, either physically or spiritually, that you check
out the 2002 enzyme, you got to go back a ways, the enzyme magazine, 2002 September issue,
and find the article there.
It's like the third one in the, in the magazine.
This is September 2002.
The article, it's not really an article.
It's quotes of prophets called hope for parents of wayward children.
Hope for parents, hope for parents of wayward children.
Enzyme September 2002, but I, this is one of my favorite all time quotes is by Lorenzo
Snow.
He says, if you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a
resurrection, you will by the power of the priesthood work and labor as the son of God
has until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory.
That amazing.
So again, if you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a
resurrection and we're all going to receive a resurrection and if we've kept our covenants,
then we, we, we are where we need to be.
You will by the power of the priesthood work and labor.
And I'm sure this is together as mother and father.
You will work and labor as the son of God has until you get all your sons and daughters
in the path of exaltation and glory.
This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains.
Therefore more not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you
have marked out to them or give heed to your counsels in as much as we succeed in securing
eternal glory and stand as saviors and as kings and priests to our God.
We will save our posterity.
That's an amazing promise.
And I know that's true.
I, I just know by the spirit that that's true Scott.
And now nobody's going to force those children.
You know, those, those children continue to refuse to be unwilling and by their choices
are unworthy and they refuse to, which I think would be very rare if any, but God's not going
to force them into exaltation and eternal glory.
But Lorenzo Snow also said this is in the teachings of the prophet Lorenzo Snow.
One of my favorite quotes as well.
He said that the, those, those spirits in the spirit world will be taught the gospel of Jesus Christ,
where the conditions to receive the gospel are a thousand times more favorable than they
are here in, in this, on this earth.
Well, you know, I, for those who are struggling with their children for whatever reasons,
physically, spiritually, emotionally, I just, I always fall back on this article.
These quotes of the prophets or as a quote from the prophet Joseph Smith as quoted by
Orsnef Whitney.
There's a quote from Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow and Boyd K Packer.
And they could add to this.
There's been prophets by President Nelson and others since 2002, of course.
So I just recommend that and that's been on my mind.
So I kind of wanted to start with that.
I think that's one of the things David that has kind of universal application.
I don't know.
Deb and I were talking about this just the other day while we were in Roa 10 actually
hunder us just a few days ago, we were visiting with a wonderful couple who just seemed like
they had everything put together.
He had a BYU hat on and so I approached him and, and, you know, as we got to know them
a little better and I don't know a lot of the details.
But you know, these, this couple just seemed like the quintessential stereotypical and I
mean that in a positive way this time, stereotypical, just members of the church covenant path
keepers, right?
They're just on, you can tell by their fruit you shall know them.
Well, you know, as we got to know them a little bit later, it turns out that they are struggling
with a daughter.
And, you know, and when I say they're struggling, when we struggle with our children, Dave,
I have it, you have it.
When we struggle with our children, we're not struggling with whether or not we love
our children.
We're not struggling with whether or not we, we are going to keep them or see them still
as our children.
We are just struggling because our children struggle, somebody once said, you know, you're
only as happy as your, as your saddest kid.
And I think that I think that in some ways, not always, but I think in some ways that
can be true.
But this just seems to be throughout the church, throughout our society, we are just riddled
with this.
Now, the thing I want to say about that is, is we see Satan's work at work on those that
we see wandering.
And I, and I, and I hesitate to use that word, but those who, that we see that are on their
own path that seems to be different from ours right now.
Yeah.
And Satan has that influence there, but we have to be careful as parents and observers
and family members and leaders and others who love them.
We have to be careful not to let Satan's influence into our lives too, because that
can look like.
Absolutely.
Because Satan can make that, make that look like a righteous endeavor when indeed it can
be just the opposite of that, David.
Yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
And he's a great accuser.
Yeah.
And he'll come in and he'll tell us that we're a failure as parents.
Right.
What were you doing?
You know, you didn't, you didn't say your family prayers every day.
This is your fault.
Right.
Or, or you did say your prayers every day.
What's wrong with it?
And look what happened.
Yeah.
And was it worth it?
I mean, you did all of that for nothing.
I mean, all those things that we get accused of, right?
All of these things I've even said to my kids, you know better.
So you've become the accuser.
I have been.
I've been the accused and the accuser.
Yeah, we all have.
I know that.
And, and I, we got to be careful because we can do more harm and that's Satan's intent
for us to do more harm than good if we approach our children who may not be making the same
choices we're making in the way that he wants us to.
Yeah, absolutely.
Well, Scott, in our course, back to our course on the divine gift of forgiveness.
The book written by Elder Anderson, you know, we're kind of hanging out in chapter eight
here and I know we've done a few podcasts on this about the effects that we've talked
about the events and the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the last couple we've
talked about the effects of the Atonement, how the Atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally
overcomes spiritual death that came into the world because of the fall of Adam and Eve.
We haven't talked about our personal fall yet.
You know, the Atonement of Jesus Christ conditionally overcomes the fall of you and me according
to our faith, our repentance, our obedience.
And we'll talk about that.
It's chapter nine and we're going to start with with faith and and how that's part of
the conditional effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
But we're finishing up on the unconditional effects today in chapter eight of the book.
And we talked about how all will return to the presence of God, all of God's children.
We left the presence of God, the Atonement of Jesus Christ allows us to all return to
the presence of God to be judged.
We may not all stay there.
No unclean thing can dwell there, but we will all return to the presence of God as resurrected
beings after the resurrection.
This is only possible because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ.
So as we finish up on that, Scott, let's move from the negative of spiritual death that
came into the world from Adam and Eve.
And let's talk about the unconditional effects of our Savior's Atonement in overcoming physical
death that was brought into the world by Adam and Eve.
And of course, the first way that the Atonement of our Savior overcomes physical death is
through the universal resurrection.
We've talked about the resurrection is kind of we did a whole thing, I think on the resurrection
when we talked about the events of the Atonement.
And I don't want to repeat all of that.
But we know that there will be a resurrection because of Christ being the first fruits of
the resurrection.
And then all, including sons of perdition, all God's children will their spirits will
return to their physical bodies and they will be resurrected.
And a hair of their head will be lost.
Alma 1144.
All will all things will be restored and they will stand before God to be judged.
So the Atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes physical death.
But there's another aspect of the physical death, Scott, and that has to do with pains
and sicknesses and those who innocently suffer physical or emotional or mental conditions
that they did not choose.
Maybe they were aware that they would come into this world.
I've wondered about this as a patriarch and giving blessings.
God is that some individuals come into this world, I believe having had receiving some
knowledge and preparation, perhaps in their pre mortal existence, knowing that there would
be those challenges and knowing and being taught that the Savior would cover them.
I believe that.
However, in the moment, you know, because we're we're here and not there and there's
a veil between us, we see so much suffering physically, mentally, emotionally, and all
of those things got that people suffer innocently, not of their choosing, but because of the
conditions of this world and I mean, the list would be enormous of those, you know, who
are born under certain with certain conditions in their physical body.
I mean, there can be.
I don't want to start giving be descriptive, but all our listeners are thinking of things
right now in their own personal life or in their family life or their neighbor's life
or their their ministering families life.
There are so many.
I think of chemical imbalance and depression.
You know, I think of physical handicaps.
I think of mental handicaps.
I think of sexual even.
What's the word differences or things that that just naturally occur.
Yeah, even confusions and, you know, we see a lot of that, you know, just confusion.
And we and we can't really judge that because we don't know.
That's right.
You know, I don't I don't know, Scott.
I'm not the judge and I don't I don't think we know.
I don't think there's any official doctrine on this that maybe there are maybe there are
certain people that are born with certain sexual identities.
I don't know.
I just don't know what I do know.
What I choose to focus on is not judging them, but in knowing that the Savior covers them.
That's what I know.
If it is not something that they truly chose and I can't determine that you can't determine
that I don't even think their parents can determine that.
However, the Savior knows and the Savior covers those who suffer innocently because of the
fall of Adam and Eve and the imperfect world that we live in and all of the insufficiencies
and tendencies and propensities and that aren't normal.
So I I'm just so grateful that that's that's what we believe that the the Atonement of Jesus
Christ covers all of that.
I I've always loved this quote by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland.
It was on his talk called Liberty.
It was on Liberty jail.
I think even I can't remember.
He'd been he'd visited Liberty jail recently.
This is way back in 2008 and in a CES fireside.
So you'd have to look up broadcast CES broadcast to find it.
But this is what he said.
It ought to be a matter of great doctrinal consolation to us that Jesus in the course
of his Atonement experienced all of the heartache and sorrow, all of the disappointments and
injustices that the entire family of man had experienced and would experience from Adam
and Eve to the end of the world.
In order that we would not have to face them so severely or so deeply.
Get this last sentence.
However heavy our load might be, it would be a lot heavier if the Savior had not gone
that way before us and carried that burden with us and for us.
I really hold on to that promise.
When I see members of my family struggling with depression, discouragement, my own my
own sweetheart, you know, takes medication for some of that.
She's open about that and and so many who suffer emotional, mental, physical disabilities
that they didn't choose.
I know I know the the Atonement of Jesus Christ covers that unconditionally, Scott.
If there's any negatives that come out of those negatives, he covers that.
So what again we go back to gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ should change
how we see everything because if we have an understanding and a gratitude, it changes
our desires and it changes how we see ourselves, how we see our family members and how we really
see individuals in the world.
At least it should.
Yeah, absolutely.
The other thing it does is it it it offers us freedom, right?
Because if we're if we're captured by the belief and if we're bound and held captive
by the belief that I am I am making mistakes.
I am because of my condition.
I'm pushing my the spirit away from me, which is the administrator of the Atonement of Jesus
Christ and we can't fill it in our lives.
But a lot of times, David, we will believe these things because of the programming that
we've been brought up with or or the programming that we're involved with as part of our society
and our culture, etc.
Traditions.
They're just not 100% accurate.
You know, there may be some truth to some of that, but it's just real.
You said it.
It's just really difficult.
I can't even as much as well as I know my kids and I think I do.
But as well as I know them, I can't say to Trevor, Trevor, what's wrong with you?
And I'm not, you know, this is hypothetical.
What's wrong with you?
You know better.
I don't really know.
You know, I don't really know.
Even my own kids.
I don't know what he feels.
I don't know how he's wired.
I don't know how he has been affected by things that I don't know that have affected his
life.
Exactly.
And so on.
And so again, as parents, as friends, as spouses, even as whatever, we had better be
very careful in our judgment towards that.
And maybe more importantly, David, be very careful in our judgment towards ourselves
as we go through some of that stuff.
I know that, you know, I deal with some of that stuff.
Depression, anxiety, PTSD things because of things that have been, happened to me in
my life.
And when I have had feelings and so forth, I've been super judgmental towards myself
on some of that.
I'm beginning to be much more gentle, much more aware of the effects of the atonement
in my life around that.
But Dave, that's been a struggle.
Yeah.
I know, Scott.
And even with what you know, it's a struggle.
In fact, even with what I know, it's a struggle.
Without what you know, it's impossible.
Literally.
You'd still be.
It'd be on the bottle.
Probably.
Yeah.
Well, we're dead.
More and more likely the latter.
Yeah.
So I don't know how, you know, how people, parents, families, individuals deal with
it when they do not understand what the atonement of Jesus Christ covers and covers unconditionally.
Yeah.
I mean, I know we all know this scripture, but I remember, Scott, I've told this story
before about the president of this of the largest Protestant theological seminary in
America.
Dr. Ma, who came to our Institute and and read this scripture from the Book of Mormon.
You know, he told all of our students in in his little address.
He was doing a little devotional for our students at the Utah Valley University.
And he told all of them, hey, don't don't all of you when you come up after don't all
of you try to give me a book of Mormon.
I already have a Book of Mormon.
I read it.
I love, I love lots of things in your Book of Mormon.
And he says, I really love this scripture.
And and this is Alma chapter seven verses 11 through 13.
And he read it.
He read it over the pulpit to our students.
And Jesus Christ shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every
kind.
And this that the word might be fulfilled, which sayeth, he will take upon him the pains
and the sicknesses of his people.
Scott, I I it wouldn't be wrong for us to add take upon him the physical and spiritual
and emotional pains and the physical mental emotional spiritual sicknesses of his people.
Yeah, well, that first sentence encapsulates that that can the afflictions and temptations
of every kind.
Yeah, that's right.
That's complete.
Yeah, absolutely.
And and the verse goes on, he will take upon him death that he may lose the bands of death
unconditionally.
I'm adding that which bind his people and he will take upon him their infirmities that
his bowels may be filled with mercy according to the flesh that he may know according to
the flesh how to sucker his people according to their infirmities.
Infirmities are physical, mental, anything emotional, spiritual.
We all have infirmities.
That's part of the fall of Adam and Eve, Scott.
The the Lord confesses in ether 1227, I give unto men weakness, or he could have said,
I give unto men infirmities, that they might be humble, and my grace is sufficient for
all men that humble themselves before me.
For if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things,
become strong unto them.
That's a portion of Alma or ether 1227.
And then verse 13, now the spirit knoweth all things.
Nevertheless, the son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the
sins of his people that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power
of his deliverance.
And now behold, this is the testimony which is in me.
So I just Scott, Dr. Moss said after that this broke my heart actually.
I think it broke everybody's heart that heard it.
He said, I wish I wish our church believed that.
That's what he said.
One of the leading Presbyterian pastors and ministers in the country and he said, I wish
our church could believe that.
But unfortunately, he believes in a finite, a finite that's that's I'm quoting him.
They believe in a finite atonement that only those who confess Jesus are covered by the
atonement.
We believe in an infinite, infinite atonement that affects all of God's children of all
worlds of all their infirmities of all their sins, whether repented of or not, the atonement
of Jesus Christ covers all of us.
The question is, will we receive it?
Will we understand it?
Will we receive the blessings, power, peace, joy, forgiveness, mercy and grace that flow
from it?
I just, we should just be so thankful for the restoration of the fullness of the gospel
of Jesus Christ for the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, because nobody else understands
that Scott.
So again, we, if we'll just study ponder when you hear the news and you hear about all the
negative things going on the news and all the subjective judgments that news commentators
make these days on cable news networks, I just hope you'll hold off from making judgment
and getting down and on people and getting all depressed and thinking that the world's
going to hell in a handbasket.
Jesus has got us Scott.
Jesus covers us.
We read the quote by Elder Anderson.
I talked about this that because the world is so sinful and so evil right now, that because
of the atonement of Jesus Christ, there are compensatory powers that he has given us.
I think the restoration of the gospel is a compensatory blessing.
He talked specifically that there would be an increase of the Holy Ghost that would be
part of the compensatory powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ that would bless us because
of this fallen world and the conditions that we live in right now.
And yet so many times we just get caught up into the news and the wave of what's happening
now that we fail to really pause and think about, you know, Jesus has got us.
Jesus has got this.
Jesus is in control.
And if we can have that vision and if we can see it that way, the way that it really is,
then that can relieve a lot of the anxiety that we feel.
You know, we began this podcast.
One of the things that we were talking about was some of the anxiety and some of the stress
and so forth that we as parents and our parents have felt towards us and we feel that maybe
some of our children and I don't think that that's just something that parents feel whose
kids have left the church or who have decided to go a different spiritual path.
I know that parents in the church feel that way about their kids who are seemingly on
the covenant path as well.
The thing that an understanding of this part of the atonement or this part of the effects
of the atonement of Jesus Christ can do for us is it cannot only allow us to extend greater
grace and mercy outward, but it can also change us inside.
It can relieve us of the burden of judgment.
When that burden or condemnation or condemnation or yeah, probably better said, you know, probably
way better said when if we can be relieved of the burden of condemnation and there is
a great burden there because so often and probably I might argue most of the time we
are going to be inaccurate in our condemnation because that condemnation is from the accuser.
That comes to us from the accuser.
But this understanding of this part of the atonement of Jesus Christ, David, allows
us to have peace and tranquility and to, you know, Elder President Benson used to say,
you know, sometimes Heavenly Father will calm the storm, but sometimes he'll let the
storm rage and he'll calm the child.
He'll calm us and that calming can come to us through an understanding of the things
that you're talking about.
Yeah.
And you know, I had that experience.
I told this story a few podcasts ago about my son, our adopted son, Isaac, who went to
prison and I don't think I told this part of the story.
If I did, you'll have to cut this out.
But you know, 12 o'clock, he's not home.
It's on a Saturday night.
I've got a patriarchal blessing to give the next morning at I think eight or nine a.m.
And so I'm up and I'm studying and I'm kind of preparing to give a patriarchal blessing
the next morning and he doesn't, he's usually pretty good about coming home and by midnight
and he didn't come home and he didn't come home and 12 30.
Probably I start calling and then it goes right to a to voicemail, which is unusual.
Normally he'd pick it up right away.
I start texting nothing.
I'm going on, you know, nothing.
And I'm I'm by about one 30, I start praying, Scott.
And I'm this is this sacred, but I'll share it.
I hear a voice and the voice says to me, I have taken him unto myself.
And I think, oh, no, he's he's died.
I thought he died.
When I heard that, I thought he I started looking out the window.
I was sure the police were going to show up and tell me that he that there was an accident.
He'd been killed or that somebody had killed him or whatever, or maybe he'd taken his life.
You know, there'd been suicide ideations with him.
So I thought he was dead.
And it gets to be 2am and I I'm thinking, oh, you know, nobody shows up and I'm praying
again and I hear the voice.
I have taken him unto myself.
About 3am.
I hear it again.
Scott, three times.
Three times I heard that voice.
And I I recognize that voice.
I have taken him unto myself.
Well at 340, I get a phone call.
And it's it's Isaac and he's in tears telling me he's been arrested.
And he was arrested at 1130.
And that he's in the county county jail.
And he's probably on his way to prison.
Well we talked, we cried.
I expressed my my sorrow and my love, all of that.
Tried to encourage him, give him some hope.
And after a short phone call, I went in to wake up Chris.
That's tough.
And it is a tough conversation.
Tell your wife that your son's in prison.
Anyway, I woke her up.
And I said, sweetheart, before I tell you what happened, I need to tell you what I've
experienced.
And I told her what I had experienced and what I'd heard.
And I said, after I told her that, my experience, I said, so Isaac's been arrested and he's
in jail probably on his way to prison.
There was such a peace really Scott in all of that.
I mean there was sadness.
There was emotional heartbreak.
All of that that goes with that.
You know, we were very, very sad and sorrowful and weeping.
And I said to her, you know, I have a blessing to give in a few hours.
I've been up all night.
I have a blessing to give in a few hours.
Yeah I think I should cancel it, don't you?
And she said, well I don't know, you better go pray about it first.
So I went down to my office and I prayed and I had this powerful impression.
Little bit of a, really a little bit of a correction, chastisement.
You know, who do you think you are?
These blessings don't come from you.
You don't give these blessings.
These aren't your words.
I just need you to show up.
Just show up.
Wow.
And I, of course, didn't cancel the blessing and it was one of, remember that young woman
and the blessing that she received and it was one of the more powerful blessings I think
I've felt.
And she didn't know about any of the background or what I'd experienced that night.
I was compensated.
Through the atonement of Jesus Christ in my sorrow, in my emotional state of being sorrowful
and sad and upset and a little frustrated.
You know, I was compensated, Scott.
And I know Isaac was compensated.
I know my sweetheart was compensated.
There was all this compensation.
I've, I have taken him unto myself.
I've got him.
The impression was it went along with that revelation was, hey, you've done a fine job.
You've done a fine job.
You've been a good dad.
But now I've got him.
But now he's mine.
The peace I know again that you can have peace and joy even in sorrow and in great affliction.
That's only possible because of the atonement of Jesus Christ and our savior, our redeemer,
providing his, his, the powers, the redemptive enabling compensatory powers that flow into
our life through the gift of God, son.
I, I, I know that's true and hope that our listeners will take some consolation, receive
their own witness of that in their, in their own lives and not allow any of the negatives
that are natural in this natural mortal world to, to destroy us spiritually.
I see so many parents, Scott, who when their children fall spiritually or are affected
in terrible ways because of the fall of Adam and Eve, I see sometimes parents who are so
negatively affected by that who can't understand why, why we, we, we did come follow me.
We said our prayers.
We did family home evening.
We went to church every Sunday.
Wow.
It must not be true.
And they fall.
Like people would just not focus so much on the church and focus more upon the gospel
of Jesus Christ and the atonement of our savior.
That's where they're going to find peace.
And what that does to you, Scott, is I'm telling you, going to church and partaking of the sacrament
every day or every Sunday, then renewing our covenants with that little piece of broken
bread and that little cup representing his blood.
I'm telling you, if you kidding me, that, that means so much more to me because of,
of the afflictions and sorrows and, and trials and adversities in my life because I, I know
that as I sit there and reflect upon his suffering, I reflect on my suffering too.
And the truth that he's got this, he suffered it first.
And because he suffered it, my suffering is not as bad as it would have been.
And that I can have peace and joy through his Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost, which administers
all of the blessings and powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ and into our lives.
So what I hear you saying, and I think our listeners, I hope are hearing this too, isn't
that having a relationship with the church, keeping my commandments, saying my prayers,
doing the duty to God, doing all the things.
What I hear you saying is it's not in that that we find solace.
It's not in that that we find redemption.
It's not in that that we find safe keeping.
It's in under and it's not even, and it's not even because of the atonement of Jesus
Christ.
I mean, it is ultimately because of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
But David, what it really is, is our understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
That's where the peace comes.
That's where from we gain the ability to have the experiences like you had with sweet Isaac
and Chris had with that, that experience with Isaac.
I have taken him unto myself because you understand the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
We all think we understand.
I don't know that that's true, but probably we all think we understand the covenants and
the commandments and we understand that, you know, if we DNC 82110, you know, I the Lord
imbound when you do what I say, but when you don't do what I say, I have no promise.
And we get that and I believe that.
But we sometimes misinterpret all of that to meaning, hey, it's all on me.
You're right.
It's important for me to be the dad I need to be.
It's important for me to be the husband or just even the person.
Now, you know, several years ago, this has been maybe 10 years ago.
All of you probably know, for those of you who don't, I am still very involved in alcoholics,
anonymous, other recovery programs too, but that one most specifically in one year, David.
And it's only because we went back and it just seems so overwhelming that it was like,
let's quantify this.
There were 23 people that we knew very closely that died by suicide or by overdose.
And all of these people had spouses or parents and all of these spouses and parents, you
know, two of the parents quite well.
Your, your, your son-in-law was brother to one of them.
But it seems that it doesn't seem it.
This is a this is a fact.
Those that have understanding and a relationship with Jesus Christ's atonement and feel the
compensatory blessings that flow from it that align themselves so that when they partake
of the sacrament, they have the experience that you just explained.
You just said, when I take this sacrament now, it means so much more to me as I put
on the atonement of Jesus Christ and not receive but retain a remission of my sins and retain
the effects of the atonement in my life as the Holy Ghost is part of that covenantal process
that we go through as we partake of the sacrament, that we may always have his spirit to be with
us.
And when his spirit is always with us, the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ are
being administered, but not just being administered, but become visible to us as well.
And that that is one of the deep, great blessings that you just explained from your own life.
I think a lot of us have experiences that kind of guide that go along with that.
But you know, of those 23 people that one year that passed, very few of their families
were had an understanding or even a deep desire to understand these things.
And for them, this was maybe 10 years ago, and for them I'm predicting that's been 10
years of mostly struggle, mostly help.
And the negativity in there.
Yeah.
But for those who didn't, and one was fairly recent, I may have shared a few months ago
about a young lady who had a son who took his own life.
He hung himself in a tree just behind their house, and I had an opportunity to attend and
speak at that funeral.
But there was peace there because she understands the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And she's not worried about her son.
You know, she's not worried about her son because she knows that the effects of the
atonement of Jesus Christ are not just at work in her life, but in all of the lives
of those that she loves and associates with.
And you know, and that's that can be something that we can all invite through an understanding
and an understanding requires effort on our part, but through an understanding of the
atonement of Jesus Christ so that we can fill the spirit in our lives.
Christ is where that peace and that calmness comes even in the face of adversity.
The church of Jesus Christ.
God has a has one really central role.
Now I know the four parts and roles and taking care of the poor and all of that.
But really when it comes to redemption, when it when it really comes down to it, all the
programs, all the meetings, all the all the policies, all the principles, everything of
everything in the church.
If it doesn't if it doesn't point us to Jesus Christ, if it doesn't increase our understanding
of and our gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ and the gift of Jesus Christ from
our given to us offered to us from our loving Heavenly Father, if it doesn't do that, then
what's it doing?
Yeah, Joseph Smith said that.
Oh yeah.
Boyd K. Packer said that.
A lot of them.
You told me Jesus Christ is the root of Christian doctrine.
And if it doesn't touch that root, it's dead.
Dead.
It's dead.
That's pretty definitive.
So if I know there's social reasons and I know there's there's good things that we
do, you know, I delivered cookies, Valentine cookies yesterday to my family's that I minister
to and I didn't say a word about the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And I know there's there there's sweet, divine, good things that that happen in the church.
And it's not all about that.
But but really, in my mind, it is because I mean, I delivered cookies to a guy doesn't
want anything to do with the church.
And the only reason I did it was because I want him to I if there's something that happens
goes goes south in his family.
If he feels like there's ever a need or there's ever an opportunity for me to to help teach
him about Jesus and teach him that Jesus is there for him.
I want to have something of a relationship.
So I know everything that we do should be should be focused on that, right?
Yeah, but I disagree with something you said.
You said I didn't say anything about the atonement of Jesus Christ.
You didn't have to because your actions are in line with the atonement of Jesus Christ.
David, you're not judging this guy because he's not part of it.
You're not trying to give him a sales pitch.
You are by way of invitation inviting the spirit into even if it's just the spirit of
love.
Yeah, I believe that even if it's just a spirit of acceptance, you know, but he didn't hear
any word about that.
But but he felt it.
He hopefully felt it.
Yeah.
And if he's feeling it, then but I just we all need to think about why do we do what
we do?
Right.
What's our purpose?
What is really our purpose?
And that should be our purpose.
Anything that we do in our family, you know, it should it should be ultimately to help
to help us all as a family, you know, my children, my grandchildren to feel that that Jesus is
there for them, that he has suffered for them for all of their pains, all of their sicknesses,
all of their sufferings, all of their sins, that he's he's there for them.
I anyway, I and for those who are listening this podcast for the first time, you know,
one of the one of the aspects of that sweet story, which I shared with you about my son
Isaac, if you haven't heard previous podcasts, was this is an adopted son who was born as
a fetal alcohol baby who was abused badly as a child as an infant who has bipolar and
as burgers and I'm not making excuses.
I'm just telling you the reality.
You're acknowledging the conditions.
This is the physical.
That's it.
The physical emotional conditions he was born into this world with, which I don't think
he chose.
He may knew of something about it before he was born.
He may have been somewhat prepared for it before he was born, but what he knew before
he was born and what I know now and which I hope he knows now because I've tried to
teach him is that Jesus is there for him and not just there for him, but Jesus has got
him.
Yeah.
If I told him that story and I've had Jesus has got you, Isaac.
Yeah.
And you know, he's he's out of prison now and he still goes to church.
He loves Jesus.
She's still got his problems.
Yeah, he's still got his problems and hopefully someday he'll have the milk as he crested and
someday he'll receive the ordinances and covenants that he's, you know, hasn't yet
received.
But I'm not worried about that.
It's only a matter of time.
I know it's only a matter of time because, you know, I know his heart and he knows what
he knows is the heart of God.
And if we if we just all knew the heart of God that, you know, the scripture in 2 Nephi,
you know that God doesn't do anything for the world, save us for the benefit of the
world because he loves the world.
I love that scripture in 2 Nephi 26.
And and Isaac knows that Isaac knows that Jesus loves him.
God loves him.
His parents love him.
He knows the prophets love him.
He's had an experience with a couple of prophets, Elder Elder Anderson, when we went to the
prison to meet with Isaac, Elder Anderson wanted to meet him and have that experience.
And Isaac, Isaac felt Elder Anderson's love for him.
And ultimately through Elder Anderson, God's love for him and Elder Hell's because Isaac's
kind of this savant on the Oregon and Elder Hell's invited to to further his talent by
giving by letting Richard Elliott, the premier, you know, organist for the choir.
Oh man.
And anyway, Elder Hell's arranged for Richard Elliott to give Isaac a lesson.
This is when Isaac was like 14, 15 years old.
And then he went up to Elder Hell's office, made an appointment.
Isaac did this on his own.
He was 16 because he had to drive up there on his own.
He wouldn't let me go with him.
And so he drove up there all alone to meet with Elder Hell's 16 years old and he, he
talked to Elder Hell's.
He said for a half hour and Elder Hell's said, well, I have another meeting Isaac, you know,
Isaac, I'm sure was talking about all the things that probably weren't that interesting
to Elder.
Well, Elder Hell's was just so kind to him.
And Elder Hell says, I need to go to another meeting and he stood up and he walked around
his desk and he came over and Isaac stood up and he, he hugged Isaac and he put his
hands on Isaac's shoulders.
Then he looked into Isaac's eyes and he said, Isaac, I want you to know I will always be
one of your best friends.
Honestly, honestly, Scott, Isaac, he didn't come down off that cloud.
He didn't touch the ground.
It was like the world had just melded away and he didn't touch the ground for a couple
of weeks because he knew he had a prophet that was his friend.
Yeah.
Well, and the spirit bore witness of the truth of the things that the prophets were telling
Isaac knows that's true.
And that ultimately God feels that way about him.
And anyway, I'm just, we should just all be so thankful for the restored gospel of Jesus
Christ for what the Book of Mormon is teaches us what we understand about the infinite,
infinite atonement of Jesus Christ, the justice which works both ways and the mercy which
works both ways for sins and sinners and those who have been sinned against and those who
are victims and those who have been abused and anyway.
Well, infinite but yet individual in its most perfect form to right.
Elder Maxwell, infinite but intimate.
Yeah.
It is infinite but intimate.
And I know that's true.
I hope our listeners will feel the spirit of that and and do what they need to do.
I think there it takes work, it takes study, it takes effort to really get your own testimony
and understanding of these things.
And I hope our listeners will do that.
Yeah.
As do I.
Great day.
Thanks so much, David.
As always, we start to move through the effects and now as we begin to talk about how do we
actually put on the atonement of Jesus Christ, what does that look like, what's the role
of faith and so on.
We'll be moving that into the weeks to come.
Such a joy for David and I to be able to talk about these things.
It means so much to both of us and to see and hear about through your emails how this is
affecting your lives as well.
Thanks for being with us.
We appreciate your time today and look forward to being with you again next week.
And until then, take care.