1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,640 Hey there everybody and welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,800 Scott Durfey here, joined as always by David Durfey 3 00:00:24,800 --> 00:00:25,800 How are you Dave? 4 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:26,800 Good Scott. 5 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:27,800 You're off your cruise. 6 00:00:27,800 --> 00:00:28,800 Yeah. 7 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:32,200 I wish I was still there, but I'm here and I'm grateful. 8 00:00:32,200 --> 00:00:33,960 Yeah, a little messy out there today. 9 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:36,800 Yeah, pretty snowy here on the Wasatch Front. 10 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:41,800 We're getting really wet, heavy snow today. 11 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,320 I just came out of the, not the Bahamas, the Caribbean. 12 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:47,120 Dev and I did a phenomenal cruise. 13 00:00:47,120 --> 00:00:49,440 Is it Caribbean or Caribbean? 14 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:50,440 Yep. 15 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:53,840 It's either way I think. 16 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:57,240 I just, I think it's one of those potato potato things, right? 17 00:00:57,240 --> 00:00:58,240 Yeah. 18 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:03,440 Yeah, we came out of the Caribbean and just had a phenomenal time. 19 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:07,800 But it's good to be back here and good to be talking about these things that are so 20 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:10,080 important to David and I and to all of us. 21 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,480 I know we're grateful for your emails. 22 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:13,480 Keep those coming. 23 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:17,920 You can send those to us at, heredeemsusatgmail.com. 24 00:01:17,920 --> 00:01:21,240 We do have a couple that are in queue to be answered. 25 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:22,960 We'll get to those right away. 26 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:26,520 So be patient with us, please, as you send those. 27 00:01:26,520 --> 00:01:33,360 But also we've got a couple that we'll be addressing here on the podcast as we go along 28 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:34,360 as well. 29 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:39,920 Anyway, we're anxious to get to rockin' and rollin' again, talkin' about these important 30 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:41,480 topics and so on. 31 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,040 So Dave, where are we startin' today? 32 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:49,760 Well, you know, Scott, this been on my mind recently because of a few conversations I've 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,040 had with individuals. 34 00:01:53,040 --> 00:02:04,040 Some my sweet friends in the temple where I work and some with other friends and everybody. 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:14,040 There's not a family that is not affected by the sins and conditions and circumstances 36 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:24,400 and negativity and just the world, the world has infiltrated our homes, our families. 37 00:02:24,400 --> 00:02:30,120 I remember Boykipacker used to say that if you have a TV in your home, the great and 38 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:34,480 spacious building is in your home. 39 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,640 That extends now to much more than just the TV, doesn't it? 40 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:38,640 Yeah, from, man. 41 00:02:38,640 --> 00:02:41,240 Yeah, I think he said that before social media. 42 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:42,240 Yeah, he did. 43 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:43,240 Probably. 44 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:51,880 So think about how the great and spacious building is in our homes and how influential 45 00:02:51,880 --> 00:02:57,320 the great and spacious building can be with our children in social media platforms and 46 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:04,680 the scorners, those who point their finger and scorn, those who mock, those who laugh, 47 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:08,920 those who, you know, I mean, that's the world that we live in, Scott. 48 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:15,720 Remember has the great and spacious building been more present and prevalent in our lives 49 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:17,080 than it is now. 50 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:23,000 I was driving down the freeway just yesterday right here in Happy Valley, Utah, Utah County, 51 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:27,400 Utah, and there's a sign and I'm not going to quote it exactly because I don't remember 52 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:32,720 it exactly, but it says something to the effect of social media can have a negative 53 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:35,200 effect on our mental health. 54 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:40,000 So yeah, I mean, we're even seeing it if it's recognized by the secular world that 55 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,200 that's the case, then we're in trouble. 56 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:50,280 Well those recent hearings they had a few weeks ago with Zuckerberg and Facebook and 57 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:59,120 him apologizing to families who had members commit suicide and they at least feel that 58 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:02,680 social media played a major role in that. 59 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,520 And I know he didn't apologize for what he did, but he just said he was sorry for what 60 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,240 they were feeling. 61 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:16,840 But the reality is that we are influenced by that and it's so sad that people, you know, 62 00:04:16,840 --> 00:04:24,240 the saddest thing about I think social media for me, Scott, besides the negativity is 63 00:04:24,240 --> 00:04:28,400 people think that they're connected. 64 00:04:28,400 --> 00:04:30,900 When they use social media, they think they're connected. 65 00:04:30,900 --> 00:04:34,440 When they read Facebook, they think they're connected. 66 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:36,280 It has nothing to do with being connected. 67 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,040 They're not being connected. 68 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:43,320 They're sitting in their room alone, laying on their bed alone, in their car alone, wherever 69 00:04:43,320 --> 00:04:47,040 they are alone, looking at a screen. 70 00:04:47,040 --> 00:04:49,920 Well that, Dave, is how the adversary functions. 71 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:56,520 I mean, think about everything that's counterfeit that the adversary puts in front of us. 72 00:04:56,520 --> 00:05:02,120 Counterfeit love, counterfeit affection, counterfeit connection, counterfeit everything. 73 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:04,720 And it gets us to believe it. 74 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:14,120 Virtual reality, AI, now can fake all this stuff, fake voices, fake images, fake everything. 75 00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,320 Even video now, right? 76 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,000 And what are you going to believe? 77 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:24,680 And who are you going to, you know, ultimately believe? 78 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:28,360 And who are you going to be connected with? 79 00:05:28,360 --> 00:05:30,360 I don't know, Scott. 80 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:38,960 Anyway, I ran into a friend who is really close to a family whose daughter, this has 81 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:45,800 been in the news, whose child I should say really, been in the news, another suicide 82 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:51,800 in our, among our people. 83 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:57,360 And such a shock to the family, they had no idea what their child was going through, had 84 00:05:57,360 --> 00:06:02,400 no idea that she had suicide ideations. 85 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:11,440 And, you know, they didn't even know that she, I just, and again, others who are losing 86 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:17,080 children to a faith crisis or children who are walking away from their faith. 87 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,840 I, I'm just really saddened by that. 88 00:06:21,840 --> 00:06:28,160 However, great hope is in my heart and in my mind, everything, every time I think about 89 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:36,600 the promises of the prophets, in regards to the covenants, the reality of those covenants, 90 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:42,640 the sacred nature of the promises contained within those covenants. 91 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:49,000 And I, I really encourage all of those who are, maybe have any struggles with children 92 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:55,800 that they feel like they are losing, either physically or spiritually, that you check 93 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:06,120 out the 2002 enzyme, you got to go back a ways, the enzyme magazine, 2002 September issue, 94 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,720 and find the article there. 95 00:07:08,720 --> 00:07:12,240 It's like the third one in the, in the magazine. 96 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,640 This is September 2002. 97 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:17,520 The article, it's not really an article. 98 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:24,040 It's quotes of prophets called hope for parents of wayward children. 99 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:31,240 Hope for parents, hope for parents of wayward children. 100 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:36,360 Enzyme September 2002, but I, this is one of my favorite all time quotes is by Lorenzo 101 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,040 Snow. 102 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:44,680 He says, if you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a 103 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:51,080 resurrection, you will by the power of the priesthood work and labor as the son of God 104 00:07:51,080 --> 00:08:00,400 has until you get all your sons and daughters in the path of exaltation and glory. 105 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,720 That amazing. 106 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,960 So again, if you succeed in passing through these trials and afflictions and receive a 107 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:11,840 resurrection and we're all going to receive a resurrection and if we've kept our covenants, 108 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,240 then we, we, we are where we need to be. 109 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:20,280 You will by the power of the priesthood work and labor. 110 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,760 And I'm sure this is together as mother and father. 111 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,400 You will work and labor as the son of God has until you get all your sons and daughters 112 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:31,020 in the path of exaltation and glory. 113 00:08:31,020 --> 00:08:39,120 This is just as sure as that the sun rose this morning over yonder mountains. 114 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:44,520 Therefore more not because all your sons and daughters do not follow in the path that you 115 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:52,080 have marked out to them or give heed to your counsels in as much as we succeed in securing 116 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:59,280 eternal glory and stand as saviors and as kings and priests to our God. 117 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:04,360 We will save our posterity. 118 00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:07,160 That's an amazing promise. 119 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,640 And I know that's true. 120 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:14,160 I, I just know by the spirit that that's true Scott. 121 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,520 And now nobody's going to force those children. 122 00:09:17,520 --> 00:09:25,440 You know, those, those children continue to refuse to be unwilling and by their choices 123 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:34,280 are unworthy and they refuse to, which I think would be very rare if any, but God's not going 124 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,480 to force them into exaltation and eternal glory. 125 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:45,520 But Lorenzo Snow also said this is in the teachings of the prophet Lorenzo Snow. 126 00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:47,400 One of my favorite quotes as well. 127 00:09:47,400 --> 00:09:55,880 He said that the, those, those spirits in the spirit world will be taught the gospel of Jesus Christ, 128 00:09:55,880 --> 00:10:04,760 where the conditions to receive the gospel are a thousand times more favorable than they 129 00:10:04,760 --> 00:10:10,840 are here in, in this, on this earth. 130 00:10:10,840 --> 00:10:18,720 Well, you know, I, for those who are struggling with their children for whatever reasons, 131 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:27,120 physically, spiritually, emotionally, I just, I always fall back on this article. 132 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:31,920 These quotes of the prophets or as a quote from the prophet Joseph Smith as quoted by 133 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,760 Orsnef Whitney. 134 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:39,440 There's a quote from Brigham Young, Lorenzo Snow and Boyd K Packer. 135 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:42,040 And they could add to this. 136 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:47,240 There's been prophets by President Nelson and others since 2002, of course. 137 00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:50,760 So I just recommend that and that's been on my mind. 138 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:52,720 So I kind of wanted to start with that. 139 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:56,880 I think that's one of the things David that has kind of universal application. 140 00:10:56,880 --> 00:10:57,880 I don't know. 141 00:10:57,880 --> 00:11:02,080 Deb and I were talking about this just the other day while we were in Roa 10 actually 142 00:11:02,080 --> 00:11:09,800 hunder us just a few days ago, we were visiting with a wonderful couple who just seemed like 143 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:11,400 they had everything put together. 144 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:16,360 He had a BYU hat on and so I approached him and, and, you know, as we got to know them 145 00:11:16,360 --> 00:11:18,800 a little better and I don't know a lot of the details. 146 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:25,200 But you know, these, this couple just seemed like the quintessential stereotypical and I 147 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:31,360 mean that in a positive way this time, stereotypical, just members of the church covenant path 148 00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:33,360 keepers, right? 149 00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:36,760 They're just on, you can tell by their fruit you shall know them. 150 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:41,880 Well, you know, as we got to know them a little bit later, it turns out that they are struggling 151 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,200 with a daughter. 152 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:47,160 And, you know, and when I say they're struggling, when we struggle with our children, Dave, 153 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:48,280 I have it, you have it. 154 00:11:48,280 --> 00:11:51,920 When we struggle with our children, we're not struggling with whether or not we love 155 00:11:51,920 --> 00:11:52,920 our children. 156 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,360 We're not struggling with whether or not we, we are going to keep them or see them still 157 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,360 as our children. 158 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:01,640 We are just struggling because our children struggle, somebody once said, you know, you're 159 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,280 only as happy as your, as your saddest kid. 160 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,800 And I think that I think that in some ways, not always, but I think in some ways that 161 00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:10,360 can be true. 162 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:16,200 But this just seems to be throughout the church, throughout our society, we are just riddled 163 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:17,200 with this. 164 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:22,960 Now, the thing I want to say about that is, is we see Satan's work at work on those that 165 00:12:22,960 --> 00:12:23,960 we see wandering. 166 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:28,040 And I, and I, and I hesitate to use that word, but those who, that we see that are on their 167 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:30,760 own path that seems to be different from ours right now. 168 00:12:30,760 --> 00:12:31,760 Yeah. 169 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:35,720 And Satan has that influence there, but we have to be careful as parents and observers 170 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:39,080 and family members and leaders and others who love them. 171 00:12:39,080 --> 00:12:42,760 We have to be careful not to let Satan's influence into our lives too, because that 172 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:43,760 can look like. 173 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:44,760 Absolutely. 174 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:49,680 Because Satan can make that, make that look like a righteous endeavor when indeed it can 175 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,760 be just the opposite of that, David. 176 00:12:51,760 --> 00:12:52,760 Yeah, for sure. 177 00:12:52,760 --> 00:12:53,760 Yeah. 178 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:54,760 And he's a great accuser. 179 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:55,760 Yeah. 180 00:12:55,760 --> 00:12:59,320 And he'll come in and he'll tell us that we're a failure as parents. 181 00:12:59,320 --> 00:13:00,320 Right. 182 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:01,320 What were you doing? 183 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:06,080 You know, you didn't, you didn't say your family prayers every day. 184 00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:07,080 This is your fault. 185 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:08,080 Right. 186 00:13:08,080 --> 00:13:10,160 Or, or you did say your prayers every day. 187 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,160 What's wrong with it? 188 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:12,160 And look what happened. 189 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:13,160 Yeah. 190 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:14,160 And was it worth it? 191 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,000 I mean, you did all of that for nothing. 192 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,680 I mean, all those things that we get accused of, right? 193 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:22,000 All of these things I've even said to my kids, you know better. 194 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,120 So you've become the accuser. 195 00:13:25,120 --> 00:13:26,120 I have been. 196 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,120 I have been. 197 00:13:27,120 --> 00:13:28,840 I've been the accused and the accuser. 198 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:30,000 Yeah, we all have. 199 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:31,000 I know that. 200 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,920 And, and I, we got to be careful because we can do more harm and that's Satan's intent 201 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:41,440 for us to do more harm than good if we approach our children who may not be making the same 202 00:13:41,440 --> 00:13:44,840 choices we're making in the way that he wants us to. 203 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:46,440 Yeah, absolutely. 204 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:51,880 Well, Scott, in our course, back to our course on the divine gift of forgiveness. 205 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:57,880 The book written by Elder Anderson, you know, we're kind of hanging out in chapter eight 206 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:03,400 here and I know we've done a few podcasts on this about the effects that we've talked 207 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:10,640 about the events and the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the last couple we've 208 00:14:10,640 --> 00:14:18,960 talked about the effects of the Atonement, how the Atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally 209 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:26,480 overcomes spiritual death that came into the world because of the fall of Adam and Eve. 210 00:14:26,480 --> 00:14:29,440 We haven't talked about our personal fall yet. 211 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:37,640 You know, the Atonement of Jesus Christ conditionally overcomes the fall of you and me according 212 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:42,720 to our faith, our repentance, our obedience. 213 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:44,160 And we'll talk about that. 214 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:50,240 It's chapter nine and we're going to start with with faith and and how that's part of 215 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,560 the conditional effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 216 00:14:54,560 --> 00:15:03,000 But we're finishing up on the unconditional effects today in chapter eight of the book. 217 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,960 And we talked about how all will return to the presence of God, all of God's children. 218 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:15,320 We left the presence of God, the Atonement of Jesus Christ allows us to all return to 219 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,760 the presence of God to be judged. 220 00:15:19,760 --> 00:15:21,640 We may not all stay there. 221 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:28,920 No unclean thing can dwell there, but we will all return to the presence of God as resurrected 222 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:32,120 beings after the resurrection. 223 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:39,520 This is only possible because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 224 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:47,640 So as we finish up on that, Scott, let's move from the negative of spiritual death that 225 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,000 came into the world from Adam and Eve. 226 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:57,440 And let's talk about the unconditional effects of our Savior's Atonement in overcoming physical 227 00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:01,360 death that was brought into the world by Adam and Eve. 228 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:10,240 And of course, the first way that the Atonement of our Savior overcomes physical death is 229 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:12,880 through the universal resurrection. 230 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:17,440 We've talked about the resurrection is kind of we did a whole thing, I think on the resurrection 231 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:22,200 when we talked about the events of the Atonement. 232 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:25,440 And I don't want to repeat all of that. 233 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,520 But we know that there will be a resurrection because of Christ being the first fruits of 234 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,400 the resurrection. 235 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:39,360 And then all, including sons of perdition, all God's children will their spirits will 236 00:16:39,360 --> 00:16:44,480 return to their physical bodies and they will be resurrected. 237 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:47,240 And a hair of their head will be lost. 238 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,360 Alma 1144. 239 00:16:49,360 --> 00:16:55,680 All will all things will be restored and they will stand before God to be judged. 240 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,840 So the Atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally overcomes physical death. 241 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:07,760 But there's another aspect of the physical death, Scott, and that has to do with pains 242 00:17:07,760 --> 00:17:19,520 and sicknesses and those who innocently suffer physical or emotional or mental conditions 243 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,800 that they did not choose. 244 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,480 Maybe they were aware that they would come into this world. 245 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,280 I've wondered about this as a patriarch and giving blessings. 246 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:35,080 God is that some individuals come into this world, I believe having had receiving some 247 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:40,200 knowledge and preparation, perhaps in their pre mortal existence, knowing that there would 248 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:47,120 be those challenges and knowing and being taught that the Savior would cover them. 249 00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:49,280 I believe that. 250 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:56,320 However, in the moment, you know, because we're we're here and not there and there's 251 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:06,240 a veil between us, we see so much suffering physically, mentally, emotionally, and all 252 00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:13,320 of those things got that people suffer innocently, not of their choosing, but because of the 253 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:21,400 conditions of this world and I mean, the list would be enormous of those, you know, who 254 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:26,960 are born under certain with certain conditions in their physical body. 255 00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:30,200 I mean, there can be. 256 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:36,720 I don't want to start giving be descriptive, but all our listeners are thinking of things 257 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:41,720 right now in their own personal life or in their family life or their neighbor's life 258 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:46,040 or their their ministering families life. 259 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:47,360 There are so many. 260 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:51,720 I think of chemical imbalance and depression. 261 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,160 You know, I think of physical handicaps. 262 00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:56,600 I think of mental handicaps. 263 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:03,200 I think of sexual even. 264 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:09,360 What's the word differences or things that that just naturally occur. 265 00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:14,720 Yeah, even confusions and, you know, we see a lot of that, you know, just confusion. 266 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,440 And we and we can't really judge that because we don't know. 267 00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:18,600 That's right. 268 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,640 You know, I don't I don't know, Scott. 269 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:23,480 I'm not the judge and I don't I don't think we know. 270 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:27,960 I don't think there's any official doctrine on this that maybe there are maybe there are 271 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:33,760 certain people that are born with certain sexual identities. 272 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:35,880 I don't know. 273 00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:39,280 I just don't know what I do know. 274 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:50,400 What I choose to focus on is not judging them, but in knowing that the Savior covers them. 275 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,520 That's what I know. 276 00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:58,680 If it is not something that they truly chose and I can't determine that you can't determine 277 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:03,080 that I don't even think their parents can determine that. 278 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:14,280 However, the Savior knows and the Savior covers those who suffer innocently because of the 279 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:22,320 fall of Adam and Eve and the imperfect world that we live in and all of the insufficiencies 280 00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:29,400 and tendencies and propensities and that aren't normal. 281 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:38,000 So I I'm just so grateful that that's that's what we believe that the the Atonement of Jesus 282 00:20:38,000 --> 00:20:39,360 Christ covers all of that. 283 00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:46,000 I I've always loved this quote by Elder Jeffrey R. Holland. 284 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:50,160 It was on his talk called Liberty. 285 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:52,320 It was on Liberty jail. 286 00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:55,560 I think even I can't remember. 287 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,600 He'd been he'd visited Liberty jail recently. 288 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:02,840 This is way back in 2008 and in a CES fireside. 289 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:07,040 So you'd have to look up broadcast CES broadcast to find it. 290 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:09,560 But this is what he said. 291 00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:16,400 It ought to be a matter of great doctrinal consolation to us that Jesus in the course 292 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:24,880 of his Atonement experienced all of the heartache and sorrow, all of the disappointments and 293 00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:33,680 injustices that the entire family of man had experienced and would experience from Adam 294 00:21:33,680 --> 00:21:37,000 and Eve to the end of the world. 295 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:44,480 In order that we would not have to face them so severely or so deeply. 296 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,720 Get this last sentence. 297 00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:53,880 However heavy our load might be, it would be a lot heavier if the Savior had not gone 298 00:21:53,880 --> 00:22:01,360 that way before us and carried that burden with us and for us. 299 00:22:01,360 --> 00:22:04,560 I really hold on to that promise. 300 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:10,720 When I see members of my family struggling with depression, discouragement, my own my 301 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:15,080 own sweetheart, you know, takes medication for some of that. 302 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:22,880 She's open about that and and so many who suffer emotional, mental, physical disabilities 303 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:27,600 that they didn't choose. 304 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:33,200 I know I know the the Atonement of Jesus Christ covers that unconditionally, Scott. 305 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:38,160 If there's any negatives that come out of those negatives, he covers that. 306 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:47,080 So what again we go back to gratitude for the Atonement of Jesus Christ should change 307 00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:54,560 how we see everything because if we have an understanding and a gratitude, it changes 308 00:22:54,560 --> 00:23:02,320 our desires and it changes how we see ourselves, how we see our family members and how we really 309 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:04,160 see individuals in the world. 310 00:23:04,160 --> 00:23:05,400 At least it should. 311 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,400 Yeah, absolutely. 312 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:12,280 The other thing it does is it it it offers us freedom, right? 313 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,000 Because if we're if we're captured by the belief and if we're bound and held captive 314 00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:23,120 by the belief that I am I am making mistakes. 315 00:23:23,120 --> 00:23:25,440 I am because of my condition. 316 00:23:25,440 --> 00:23:30,000 I'm pushing my the spirit away from me, which is the administrator of the Atonement of Jesus 317 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,240 Christ and we can't fill it in our lives. 318 00:23:32,240 --> 00:23:36,320 But a lot of times, David, we will believe these things because of the programming that 319 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:41,800 we've been brought up with or or the programming that we're involved with as part of our society 320 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:43,280 and our culture, etc. 321 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,280 Traditions. 322 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:45,840 They're just not 100% accurate. 323 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:49,400 You know, there may be some truth to some of that, but it's just real. 324 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:50,400 You said it. 325 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:51,400 It's just really difficult. 326 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:55,680 I can't even as much as well as I know my kids and I think I do. 327 00:23:55,680 --> 00:24:00,280 But as well as I know them, I can't say to Trevor, Trevor, what's wrong with you? 328 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,520 And I'm not, you know, this is hypothetical. 329 00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:03,680 What's wrong with you? 330 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:04,880 You know better. 331 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:06,600 I don't really know. 332 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:09,520 You know, I don't really know. 333 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:10,520 Even my own kids. 334 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:11,880 I don't know what he feels. 335 00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:13,440 I don't know how he's wired. 336 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,480 I don't know how he has been affected by things that I don't know that have affected his 337 00:24:18,480 --> 00:24:19,480 life. 338 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:20,480 Exactly. 339 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:21,480 And so on. 340 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:27,040 And so again, as parents, as friends, as spouses, even as whatever, we had better be 341 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,800 very careful in our judgment towards that. 342 00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:34,680 And maybe more importantly, David, be very careful in our judgment towards ourselves 343 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,320 as we go through some of that stuff. 344 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:40,200 I know that, you know, I deal with some of that stuff. 345 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:46,720 Depression, anxiety, PTSD things because of things that have been, happened to me in 346 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,040 my life. 347 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:54,080 And when I have had feelings and so forth, I've been super judgmental towards myself 348 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,080 on some of that. 349 00:24:55,080 --> 00:25:00,960 I'm beginning to be much more gentle, much more aware of the effects of the atonement 350 00:25:00,960 --> 00:25:02,240 in my life around that. 351 00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:03,920 But Dave, that's been a struggle. 352 00:25:03,920 --> 00:25:04,920 Yeah. 353 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:06,160 I know, Scott. 354 00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:09,000 And even with what you know, it's a struggle. 355 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,040 In fact, even with what I know, it's a struggle. 356 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:12,880 Without what you know, it's impossible. 357 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:13,880 Literally. 358 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:14,880 You'd still be. 359 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,880 It'd be on the bottle. 360 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:18,880 Probably. 361 00:25:18,880 --> 00:25:19,880 Yeah. 362 00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:20,880 Well, we're dead. 363 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:21,880 More and more likely the latter. 364 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:22,880 Yeah. 365 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:29,120 So I don't know how, you know, how people, parents, families, individuals deal with 366 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:37,480 it when they do not understand what the atonement of Jesus Christ covers and covers unconditionally. 367 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:38,480 Yeah. 368 00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:46,120 I mean, I know we all know this scripture, but I remember, Scott, I've told this story 369 00:25:46,120 --> 00:25:55,000 before about the president of this of the largest Protestant theological seminary in 370 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:56,000 America. 371 00:25:56,000 --> 00:26:06,000 Dr. Ma, who came to our Institute and and read this scripture from the Book of Mormon. 372 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:10,200 You know, he told all of our students in in his little address. 373 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:16,040 He was doing a little devotional for our students at the Utah Valley University. 374 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,960 And he told all of them, hey, don't don't all of you when you come up after don't all 375 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,160 of you try to give me a book of Mormon. 376 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,760 I already have a Book of Mormon. 377 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:23,760 I read it. 378 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:28,280 I love, I love lots of things in your Book of Mormon. 379 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,880 And he says, I really love this scripture. 380 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:38,840 And and this is Alma chapter seven verses 11 through 13. 381 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:39,840 And he read it. 382 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,240 He read it over the pulpit to our students. 383 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:49,160 And Jesus Christ shall go forth suffering pains and afflictions and temptations of every 384 00:26:49,160 --> 00:26:51,000 kind. 385 00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:58,440 And this that the word might be fulfilled, which sayeth, he will take upon him the pains 386 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:03,720 and the sicknesses of his people. 387 00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:12,000 Scott, I I it wouldn't be wrong for us to add take upon him the physical and spiritual 388 00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:23,440 and emotional pains and the physical mental emotional spiritual sicknesses of his people. 389 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:29,120 Yeah, well, that first sentence encapsulates that that can the afflictions and temptations 390 00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:31,320 of every kind. 391 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:32,680 Yeah, that's right. 392 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:33,680 That's complete. 393 00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:36,680 Yeah, absolutely. 394 00:27:36,680 --> 00:27:42,640 And and the verse goes on, he will take upon him death that he may lose the bands of death 395 00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:43,640 unconditionally. 396 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:49,720 I'm adding that which bind his people and he will take upon him their infirmities that 397 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:54,920 his bowels may be filled with mercy according to the flesh that he may know according to 398 00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:02,880 the flesh how to sucker his people according to their infirmities. 399 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:08,760 Infirmities are physical, mental, anything emotional, spiritual. 400 00:28:08,760 --> 00:28:10,800 We all have infirmities. 401 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:14,480 That's part of the fall of Adam and Eve, Scott. 402 00:28:14,480 --> 00:28:21,880 The the Lord confesses in ether 1227, I give unto men weakness, or he could have said, 403 00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:28,680 I give unto men infirmities, that they might be humble, and my grace is sufficient for 404 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,880 all men that humble themselves before me. 405 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:37,920 For if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, then will I make weak things, 406 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,760 become strong unto them. 407 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:44,680 That's a portion of Alma or ether 1227. 408 00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:48,520 And then verse 13, now the spirit knoweth all things. 409 00:28:48,520 --> 00:28:56,040 Nevertheless, the son of God suffereth according to the flesh that he might take upon him the 410 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,760 sins of his people that he might blot out their transgressions according to the power 411 00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:02,840 of his deliverance. 412 00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,800 And now behold, this is the testimony which is in me. 413 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:15,520 So I just Scott, Dr. Moss said after that this broke my heart actually. 414 00:29:15,520 --> 00:29:17,760 I think it broke everybody's heart that heard it. 415 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,840 He said, I wish I wish our church believed that. 416 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,680 That's what he said. 417 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:30,720 One of the leading Presbyterian pastors and ministers in the country and he said, I wish 418 00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:32,440 our church could believe that. 419 00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:40,640 But unfortunately, he believes in a finite, a finite that's that's I'm quoting him. 420 00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:46,320 They believe in a finite atonement that only those who confess Jesus are covered by the 421 00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:49,080 atonement. 422 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:58,440 We believe in an infinite, infinite atonement that affects all of God's children of all 423 00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:08,400 worlds of all their infirmities of all their sins, whether repented of or not, the atonement 424 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:13,000 of Jesus Christ covers all of us. 425 00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:16,360 The question is, will we receive it? 426 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,860 Will we understand it? 427 00:30:17,860 --> 00:30:25,960 Will we receive the blessings, power, peace, joy, forgiveness, mercy and grace that flow 428 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:27,800 from it? 429 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:36,080 I just, we should just be so thankful for the restoration of the fullness of the gospel 430 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,320 of Jesus Christ for the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, because nobody else understands 431 00:30:41,320 --> 00:30:43,960 that Scott. 432 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:55,040 So again, we, if we'll just study ponder when you hear the news and you hear about all the 433 00:30:55,040 --> 00:31:01,480 negative things going on the news and all the subjective judgments that news commentators 434 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:09,840 make these days on cable news networks, I just hope you'll hold off from making judgment 435 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,960 and getting down and on people and getting all depressed and thinking that the world's 436 00:31:14,960 --> 00:31:19,400 going to hell in a handbasket. 437 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,560 Jesus has got us Scott. 438 00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:23,960 Jesus covers us. 439 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,120 We read the quote by Elder Anderson. 440 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:36,920 I talked about this that because the world is so sinful and so evil right now, that because 441 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:44,760 of the atonement of Jesus Christ, there are compensatory powers that he has given us. 442 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:50,320 I think the restoration of the gospel is a compensatory blessing. 443 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,200 He talked specifically that there would be an increase of the Holy Ghost that would be 444 00:31:56,200 --> 00:32:02,240 part of the compensatory powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ that would bless us because 445 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,160 of this fallen world and the conditions that we live in right now. 446 00:32:07,160 --> 00:32:15,000 And yet so many times we just get caught up into the news and the wave of what's happening 447 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:24,000 now that we fail to really pause and think about, you know, Jesus has got us. 448 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:25,600 Jesus has got this. 449 00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,000 Jesus is in control. 450 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,520 And if we can have that vision and if we can see it that way, the way that it really is, 451 00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,200 then that can relieve a lot of the anxiety that we feel. 452 00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,080 You know, we began this podcast. 453 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,520 One of the things that we were talking about was some of the anxiety and some of the stress 454 00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:48,800 and so forth that we as parents and our parents have felt towards us and we feel that maybe 455 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:55,560 some of our children and I don't think that that's just something that parents feel whose 456 00:32:55,560 --> 00:33:00,200 kids have left the church or who have decided to go a different spiritual path. 457 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:05,240 I know that parents in the church feel that way about their kids who are seemingly on 458 00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:07,480 the covenant path as well. 459 00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:12,760 The thing that an understanding of this part of the atonement or this part of the effects 460 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:20,280 of the atonement of Jesus Christ can do for us is it cannot only allow us to extend greater 461 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:24,920 grace and mercy outward, but it can also change us inside. 462 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:29,440 It can relieve us of the burden of judgment. 463 00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,880 When that burden or condemnation or condemnation or yeah, probably better said, you know, probably 464 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:39,280 way better said when if we can be relieved of the burden of condemnation and there is 465 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:45,680 a great burden there because so often and probably I might argue most of the time we 466 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:52,040 are going to be inaccurate in our condemnation because that condemnation is from the accuser. 467 00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:53,320 That comes to us from the accuser. 468 00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:58,120 But this understanding of this part of the atonement of Jesus Christ, David, allows 469 00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:05,000 us to have peace and tranquility and to, you know, Elder President Benson used to say, 470 00:34:05,000 --> 00:34:09,440 you know, sometimes Heavenly Father will calm the storm, but sometimes he'll let the 471 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,240 storm rage and he'll calm the child. 472 00:34:12,240 --> 00:34:17,800 He'll calm us and that calming can come to us through an understanding of the things 473 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:19,280 that you're talking about. 474 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:20,280 Yeah. 475 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:21,680 And you know, I had that experience. 476 00:34:21,680 --> 00:34:28,760 I told this story a few podcasts ago about my son, our adopted son, Isaac, who went to 477 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:34,880 prison and I don't think I told this part of the story. 478 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:38,720 If I did, you'll have to cut this out. 479 00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:44,280 But you know, 12 o'clock, he's not home. 480 00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:45,880 It's on a Saturday night. 481 00:34:45,880 --> 00:34:52,640 I've got a patriarchal blessing to give the next morning at I think eight or nine a.m. 482 00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:57,720 And so I'm up and I'm studying and I'm kind of preparing to give a patriarchal blessing 483 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:02,960 the next morning and he doesn't, he's usually pretty good about coming home and by midnight 484 00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,080 and he didn't come home and he didn't come home and 12 30. 485 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:14,200 Probably I start calling and then it goes right to a to voicemail, which is unusual. 486 00:35:14,200 --> 00:35:16,440 Normally he'd pick it up right away. 487 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:19,560 I start texting nothing. 488 00:35:19,560 --> 00:35:22,880 I'm going on, you know, nothing. 489 00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:30,560 And I'm I'm by about one 30, I start praying, Scott. 490 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:41,200 And I'm this is this sacred, but I'll share it. 491 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:48,320 I hear a voice and the voice says to me, I have taken him unto myself. 492 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:53,000 And I think, oh, no, he's he's died. 493 00:35:53,000 --> 00:35:55,600 I thought he died. 494 00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,360 When I heard that, I thought he I started looking out the window. 495 00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,440 I was sure the police were going to show up and tell me that he that there was an accident. 496 00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:12,480 He'd been killed or that somebody had killed him or whatever, or maybe he'd taken his life. 497 00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:17,840 You know, there'd been suicide ideations with him. 498 00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:21,520 So I thought he was dead. 499 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:29,000 And it gets to be 2am and I I'm thinking, oh, you know, nobody shows up and I'm praying 500 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,480 again and I hear the voice. 501 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:37,200 I have taken him unto myself. 502 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:39,320 About 3am. 503 00:36:39,320 --> 00:36:40,320 I hear it again. 504 00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:44,560 Scott, three times. 505 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:47,080 Three times I heard that voice. 506 00:36:47,080 --> 00:36:50,400 And I I recognize that voice. 507 00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,400 I have taken him unto myself. 508 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:58,000 Well at 340, I get a phone call. 509 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:03,640 And it's it's Isaac and he's in tears telling me he's been arrested. 510 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:08,240 And he was arrested at 1130. 511 00:37:08,240 --> 00:37:12,480 And that he's in the county county jail. 512 00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:17,760 And he's probably on his way to prison. 513 00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:19,720 Well we talked, we cried. 514 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:26,920 I expressed my my sorrow and my love, all of that. 515 00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:30,960 Tried to encourage him, give him some hope. 516 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:38,720 And after a short phone call, I went in to wake up Chris. 517 00:37:38,720 --> 00:37:39,720 That's tough. 518 00:37:39,720 --> 00:37:43,080 And it is a tough conversation. 519 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,560 Tell your wife that your son's in prison. 520 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,600 Anyway, I woke her up. 521 00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:56,960 And I said, sweetheart, before I tell you what happened, I need to tell you what I've 522 00:37:56,960 --> 00:38:00,400 experienced. 523 00:38:00,400 --> 00:38:03,920 And I told her what I had experienced and what I'd heard. 524 00:38:03,920 --> 00:38:13,240 And I said, after I told her that, my experience, I said, so Isaac's been arrested and he's 525 00:38:13,240 --> 00:38:18,040 in jail probably on his way to prison. 526 00:38:18,040 --> 00:38:22,600 There was such a peace really Scott in all of that. 527 00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,400 I mean there was sadness. 528 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,080 There was emotional heartbreak. 529 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,240 All of that that goes with that. 530 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:39,600 You know, we were very, very sad and sorrowful and weeping. 531 00:38:39,600 --> 00:38:45,520 And I said to her, you know, I have a blessing to give in a few hours. 532 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,320 I've been up all night. 533 00:38:47,320 --> 00:38:50,160 I have a blessing to give in a few hours. 534 00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,880 Yeah I think I should cancel it, don't you? 535 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,640 And she said, well I don't know, you better go pray about it first. 536 00:38:56,640 --> 00:39:05,200 So I went down to my office and I prayed and I had this powerful impression. 537 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,560 Little bit of a, really a little bit of a correction, chastisement. 538 00:39:10,560 --> 00:39:12,480 You know, who do you think you are? 539 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,400 These blessings don't come from you. 540 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:17,520 You don't give these blessings. 541 00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:18,680 These aren't your words. 542 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:21,520 I just need you to show up. 543 00:39:21,520 --> 00:39:24,520 Just show up. 544 00:39:24,520 --> 00:39:28,240 Wow. 545 00:39:28,240 --> 00:39:34,440 And I, of course, didn't cancel the blessing and it was one of, remember that young woman 546 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,280 and the blessing that she received and it was one of the more powerful blessings I think 547 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,120 I've felt. 548 00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:49,240 And she didn't know about any of the background or what I'd experienced that night. 549 00:39:49,240 --> 00:39:53,440 I was compensated. 550 00:39:53,440 --> 00:40:03,480 Through the atonement of Jesus Christ in my sorrow, in my emotional state of being sorrowful 551 00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:08,040 and sad and upset and a little frustrated. 552 00:40:08,040 --> 00:40:11,960 You know, I was compensated, Scott. 553 00:40:11,960 --> 00:40:14,800 And I know Isaac was compensated. 554 00:40:14,800 --> 00:40:17,720 I know my sweetheart was compensated. 555 00:40:17,720 --> 00:40:21,680 There was all this compensation. 556 00:40:21,680 --> 00:40:24,040 I've, I have taken him unto myself. 557 00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:25,040 I've got him. 558 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:32,200 The impression was it went along with that revelation was, hey, you've done a fine job. 559 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,280 You've done a fine job. 560 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,400 You've been a good dad. 561 00:40:36,400 --> 00:40:38,400 But now I've got him. 562 00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:40,480 But now he's mine. 563 00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:54,320 The peace I know again that you can have peace and joy even in sorrow and in great affliction. 564 00:40:54,320 --> 00:41:03,840 That's only possible because of the atonement of Jesus Christ and our savior, our redeemer, 565 00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:12,520 providing his, his, the powers, the redemptive enabling compensatory powers that flow into 566 00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,320 our life through the gift of God, son. 567 00:41:17,320 --> 00:41:28,160 I, I, I know that's true and hope that our listeners will take some consolation, receive 568 00:41:28,160 --> 00:41:37,680 their own witness of that in their, in their own lives and not allow any of the negatives 569 00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:45,680 that are natural in this natural mortal world to, to destroy us spiritually. 570 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:54,560 I see so many parents, Scott, who when their children fall spiritually or are affected 571 00:41:54,560 --> 00:42:02,440 in terrible ways because of the fall of Adam and Eve, I see sometimes parents who are so 572 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:09,120 negatively affected by that who can't understand why, why we, we, we did come follow me. 573 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:10,320 We said our prayers. 574 00:42:10,320 --> 00:42:11,720 We did family home evening. 575 00:42:11,720 --> 00:42:13,400 We went to church every Sunday. 576 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:14,400 Wow. 577 00:42:14,400 --> 00:42:15,400 It must not be true. 578 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,720 And they fall. 579 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:26,200 Like people would just not focus so much on the church and focus more upon the gospel 580 00:42:26,200 --> 00:42:31,320 of Jesus Christ and the atonement of our savior. 581 00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,840 That's where they're going to find peace. 582 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:39,880 And what that does to you, Scott, is I'm telling you, going to church and partaking of the sacrament 583 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:46,040 every day or every Sunday, then renewing our covenants with that little piece of broken 584 00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:49,680 bread and that little cup representing his blood. 585 00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:56,680 I'm telling you, if you kidding me, that, that means so much more to me because of, 586 00:42:56,680 --> 00:43:05,560 of the afflictions and sorrows and, and trials and adversities in my life because I, I know 587 00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:14,120 that as I sit there and reflect upon his suffering, I reflect on my suffering too. 588 00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:19,640 And the truth that he's got this, he suffered it first. 589 00:43:19,640 --> 00:43:26,640 And because he suffered it, my suffering is not as bad as it would have been. 590 00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:35,360 And that I can have peace and joy through his Holy Spirit, the Holy Ghost, which administers 591 00:43:35,360 --> 00:43:42,360 all of the blessings and powers of the atonement of Jesus Christ and into our lives. 592 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:50,320 So what I hear you saying, and I think our listeners, I hope are hearing this too, isn't 593 00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:58,400 that having a relationship with the church, keeping my commandments, saying my prayers, 594 00:43:58,400 --> 00:44:01,720 doing the duty to God, doing all the things. 595 00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:06,080 What I hear you saying is it's not in that that we find solace. 596 00:44:06,080 --> 00:44:08,520 It's not in that that we find redemption. 597 00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:12,280 It's not in that that we find safe keeping. 598 00:44:12,280 --> 00:44:17,800 It's in under and it's not even, and it's not even because of the atonement of Jesus 599 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:18,800 Christ. 600 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:21,200 I mean, it is ultimately because of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 601 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,320 But David, what it really is, is our understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 602 00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:28,120 That's where the peace comes. 603 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:34,840 That's where from we gain the ability to have the experiences like you had with sweet Isaac 604 00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,960 and Chris had with that, that experience with Isaac. 605 00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:43,520 I have taken him unto myself because you understand the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 606 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:44,920 We all think we understand. 607 00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:49,360 I don't know that that's true, but probably we all think we understand the covenants and 608 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:56,440 the commandments and we understand that, you know, if we DNC 82110, you know, I the Lord 609 00:44:56,440 --> 00:44:59,680 imbound when you do what I say, but when you don't do what I say, I have no promise. 610 00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:02,160 And we get that and I believe that. 611 00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:08,400 But we sometimes misinterpret all of that to meaning, hey, it's all on me. 612 00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:09,400 You're right. 613 00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:12,680 It's important for me to be the dad I need to be. 614 00:45:12,680 --> 00:45:15,560 It's important for me to be the husband or just even the person. 615 00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:22,360 Now, you know, several years ago, this has been maybe 10 years ago. 616 00:45:22,360 --> 00:45:29,280 All of you probably know, for those of you who don't, I am still very involved in alcoholics, 617 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:35,440 anonymous, other recovery programs too, but that one most specifically in one year, David. 618 00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:39,960 And it's only because we went back and it just seems so overwhelming that it was like, 619 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:40,960 let's quantify this. 620 00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:47,160 There were 23 people that we knew very closely that died by suicide or by overdose. 621 00:45:47,160 --> 00:45:52,360 And all of these people had spouses or parents and all of these spouses and parents, you 622 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:54,720 know, two of the parents quite well. 623 00:45:54,720 --> 00:45:59,520 Your, your, your son-in-law was brother to one of them. 624 00:45:59,520 --> 00:46:01,920 But it seems that it doesn't seem it. 625 00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,920 This is a this is a fact. 626 00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:11,360 Those that have understanding and a relationship with Jesus Christ's atonement and feel the 627 00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:17,320 compensatory blessings that flow from it that align themselves so that when they partake 628 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,680 of the sacrament, they have the experience that you just explained. 629 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:25,640 You just said, when I take this sacrament now, it means so much more to me as I put 630 00:46:25,640 --> 00:46:33,240 on the atonement of Jesus Christ and not receive but retain a remission of my sins and retain 631 00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:38,040 the effects of the atonement in my life as the Holy Ghost is part of that covenantal process 632 00:46:38,040 --> 00:46:43,120 that we go through as we partake of the sacrament, that we may always have his spirit to be with 633 00:46:43,120 --> 00:46:44,120 us. 634 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:49,240 And when his spirit is always with us, the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ are 635 00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:56,080 being administered, but not just being administered, but become visible to us as well. 636 00:46:56,080 --> 00:47:01,600 And that that is one of the deep, great blessings that you just explained from your own life. 637 00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:05,920 I think a lot of us have experiences that kind of guide that go along with that. 638 00:47:05,920 --> 00:47:10,360 But you know, of those 23 people that one year that passed, very few of their families 639 00:47:10,360 --> 00:47:16,720 were had an understanding or even a deep desire to understand these things. 640 00:47:16,720 --> 00:47:21,800 And for them, this was maybe 10 years ago, and for them I'm predicting that's been 10 641 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,960 years of mostly struggle, mostly help. 642 00:47:25,960 --> 00:47:26,960 And the negativity in there. 643 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:27,960 Yeah. 644 00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,240 But for those who didn't, and one was fairly recent, I may have shared a few months ago 645 00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:36,000 about a young lady who had a son who took his own life. 646 00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:40,640 He hung himself in a tree just behind their house, and I had an opportunity to attend and 647 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:41,920 speak at that funeral. 648 00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:46,240 But there was peace there because she understands the atonement of Jesus Christ. 649 00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:48,240 And she's not worried about her son. 650 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,640 You know, she's not worried about her son because she knows that the effects of the 651 00:47:52,640 --> 00:47:57,120 atonement of Jesus Christ are not just at work in her life, but in all of the lives 652 00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,640 of those that she loves and associates with. 653 00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:05,160 And you know, and that's that can be something that we can all invite through an understanding 654 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,000 and an understanding requires effort on our part, but through an understanding of the 655 00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:14,000 atonement of Jesus Christ so that we can fill the spirit in our lives. 656 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:20,600 Christ is where that peace and that calmness comes even in the face of adversity. 657 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:22,000 The church of Jesus Christ. 658 00:48:22,000 --> 00:48:27,040 God has a has one really central role. 659 00:48:27,040 --> 00:48:35,040 Now I know the four parts and roles and taking care of the poor and all of that. 660 00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:41,480 But really when it comes to redemption, when it when it really comes down to it, all the 661 00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:49,680 programs, all the meetings, all the all the policies, all the principles, everything of 662 00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,000 everything in the church. 663 00:48:53,000 --> 00:49:00,520 If it doesn't if it doesn't point us to Jesus Christ, if it doesn't increase our understanding 664 00:49:00,520 --> 00:49:09,120 of and our gratitude for the atonement of Jesus Christ and the gift of Jesus Christ from 665 00:49:09,120 --> 00:49:17,480 our given to us offered to us from our loving Heavenly Father, if it doesn't do that, then 666 00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:18,480 what's it doing? 667 00:49:18,480 --> 00:49:20,200 Yeah, Joseph Smith said that. 668 00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,200 Oh yeah. 669 00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:22,200 Boyd K. Packer said that. 670 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:23,200 A lot of them. 671 00:49:23,200 --> 00:49:25,920 You told me Jesus Christ is the root of Christian doctrine. 672 00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:28,360 And if it doesn't touch that root, it's dead. 673 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:29,360 Dead. 674 00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:30,360 It's dead. 675 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:31,360 That's pretty definitive. 676 00:49:31,360 --> 00:49:36,600 So if I know there's social reasons and I know there's there's good things that we 677 00:49:36,600 --> 00:49:42,760 do, you know, I delivered cookies, Valentine cookies yesterday to my family's that I minister 678 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:46,800 to and I didn't say a word about the atonement of Jesus Christ. 679 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:53,720 And I know there's there there's sweet, divine, good things that that happen in the church. 680 00:49:53,720 --> 00:49:56,440 And it's not all about that. 681 00:49:56,440 --> 00:50:02,320 But but really, in my mind, it is because I mean, I delivered cookies to a guy doesn't 682 00:50:02,320 --> 00:50:03,520 want anything to do with the church. 683 00:50:03,520 --> 00:50:09,720 And the only reason I did it was because I want him to I if there's something that happens 684 00:50:09,720 --> 00:50:12,440 goes goes south in his family. 685 00:50:12,440 --> 00:50:18,800 If he feels like there's ever a need or there's ever an opportunity for me to to help teach 686 00:50:18,800 --> 00:50:23,560 him about Jesus and teach him that Jesus is there for him. 687 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,700 I want to have something of a relationship. 688 00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:31,760 So I know everything that we do should be should be focused on that, right? 689 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,080 Yeah, but I disagree with something you said. 690 00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:36,760 You said I didn't say anything about the atonement of Jesus Christ. 691 00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:42,280 You didn't have to because your actions are in line with the atonement of Jesus Christ. 692 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,760 David, you're not judging this guy because he's not part of it. 693 00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,760 You're not trying to give him a sales pitch. 694 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:51,680 You are by way of invitation inviting the spirit into even if it's just the spirit of 695 00:50:51,680 --> 00:50:52,680 love. 696 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,120 Yeah, I believe that even if it's just a spirit of acceptance, you know, but he didn't hear 697 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:57,640 any word about that. 698 00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,720 But but he felt it. 699 00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:01,000 He hopefully felt it. 700 00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,000 Yeah. 701 00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:06,400 And if he's feeling it, then but I just we all need to think about why do we do what 702 00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:07,400 we do? 703 00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:08,400 Right. 704 00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:10,160 What's our purpose? 705 00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,000 What is really our purpose? 706 00:51:12,000 --> 00:51:14,320 And that should be our purpose. 707 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:20,040 Anything that we do in our family, you know, it should it should be ultimately to help 708 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:28,040 to help us all as a family, you know, my children, my grandchildren to feel that that Jesus is 709 00:51:28,040 --> 00:51:36,360 there for them, that he has suffered for them for all of their pains, all of their sicknesses, 710 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:43,360 all of their sufferings, all of their sins, that he's he's there for them. 711 00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:49,160 I anyway, I and for those who are listening this podcast for the first time, you know, 712 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:53,120 one of the one of the aspects of that sweet story, which I shared with you about my son 713 00:51:53,120 --> 00:52:00,040 Isaac, if you haven't heard previous podcasts, was this is an adopted son who was born as 714 00:52:00,040 --> 00:52:11,480 a fetal alcohol baby who was abused badly as a child as an infant who has bipolar and 715 00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,120 as burgers and I'm not making excuses. 716 00:52:14,120 --> 00:52:16,480 I'm just telling you the reality. 717 00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,120 You're acknowledging the conditions. 718 00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:20,960 This is the physical. 719 00:52:20,960 --> 00:52:21,960 That's it. 720 00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:27,360 The physical emotional conditions he was born into this world with, which I don't think 721 00:52:27,360 --> 00:52:29,480 he chose. 722 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:32,960 He may knew of something about it before he was born. 723 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,800 He may have been somewhat prepared for it before he was born, but what he knew before 724 00:52:37,800 --> 00:52:44,760 he was born and what I know now and which I hope he knows now because I've tried to 725 00:52:44,760 --> 00:52:52,440 teach him is that Jesus is there for him and not just there for him, but Jesus has got 726 00:52:52,440 --> 00:52:53,440 him. 727 00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:54,440 Yeah. 728 00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:55,440 Yeah. 729 00:52:55,440 --> 00:52:56,440 Yeah. 730 00:52:56,440 --> 00:53:01,120 If I told him that story and I've had Jesus has got you, Isaac. 731 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:02,120 Yeah. 732 00:53:02,120 --> 00:53:09,320 And you know, he's he's out of prison now and he still goes to church. 733 00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:11,000 He loves Jesus. 734 00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:12,400 She's still got his problems. 735 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:18,560 Yeah, he's still got his problems and hopefully someday he'll have the milk as he crested and 736 00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:23,880 someday he'll receive the ordinances and covenants that he's, you know, hasn't yet 737 00:53:23,880 --> 00:53:26,000 received. 738 00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:27,640 But I'm not worried about that. 739 00:53:27,640 --> 00:53:28,640 It's only a matter of time. 740 00:53:28,640 --> 00:53:34,680 I know it's only a matter of time because, you know, I know his heart and he knows what 741 00:53:34,680 --> 00:53:38,800 he knows is the heart of God. 742 00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:44,840 And if we if we just all knew the heart of God that, you know, the scripture in 2 Nephi, 743 00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:50,120 you know that God doesn't do anything for the world, save us for the benefit of the 744 00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:54,920 world because he loves the world. 745 00:53:54,920 --> 00:53:58,440 I love that scripture in 2 Nephi 26. 746 00:53:58,440 --> 00:54:03,560 And and Isaac knows that Isaac knows that Jesus loves him. 747 00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:04,560 God loves him. 748 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:06,360 His parents love him. 749 00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:08,160 He knows the prophets love him. 750 00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:14,560 He's had an experience with a couple of prophets, Elder Elder Anderson, when we went to the 751 00:54:14,560 --> 00:54:20,480 prison to meet with Isaac, Elder Anderson wanted to meet him and have that experience. 752 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,200 And Isaac, Isaac felt Elder Anderson's love for him. 753 00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:30,560 And ultimately through Elder Anderson, God's love for him and Elder Hell's because Isaac's 754 00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:38,000 kind of this savant on the Oregon and Elder Hell's invited to to further his talent by 755 00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:46,600 giving by letting Richard Elliott, the premier, you know, organist for the choir. 756 00:54:46,600 --> 00:54:48,720 Oh man. 757 00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:53,640 And anyway, Elder Hell's arranged for Richard Elliott to give Isaac a lesson. 758 00:54:53,640 --> 00:54:57,720 This is when Isaac was like 14, 15 years old. 759 00:54:57,720 --> 00:55:00,560 And then he went up to Elder Hell's office, made an appointment. 760 00:55:00,560 --> 00:55:02,320 Isaac did this on his own. 761 00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,120 He was 16 because he had to drive up there on his own. 762 00:55:05,120 --> 00:55:07,240 He wouldn't let me go with him. 763 00:55:07,240 --> 00:55:13,400 And so he drove up there all alone to meet with Elder Hell's 16 years old and he, he 764 00:55:13,400 --> 00:55:14,320 talked to Elder Hell's. 765 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:19,080 He said for a half hour and Elder Hell's said, well, I have another meeting Isaac, you know, 766 00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:24,840 Isaac, I'm sure was talking about all the things that probably weren't that interesting 767 00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:25,840 to Elder. 768 00:55:25,840 --> 00:55:29,120 Well, Elder Hell's was just so kind to him. 769 00:55:29,120 --> 00:55:32,440 And Elder Hell says, I need to go to another meeting and he stood up and he walked around 770 00:55:32,440 --> 00:55:37,600 his desk and he came over and Isaac stood up and he, he hugged Isaac and he put his 771 00:55:37,600 --> 00:55:39,960 hands on Isaac's shoulders. 772 00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:45,920 Then he looked into Isaac's eyes and he said, Isaac, I want you to know I will always be 773 00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:49,120 one of your best friends. 774 00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:55,240 Honestly, honestly, Scott, Isaac, he didn't come down off that cloud. 775 00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:56,920 He didn't touch the ground. 776 00:55:56,920 --> 00:56:03,280 It was like the world had just melded away and he didn't touch the ground for a couple 777 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:08,760 of weeks because he knew he had a prophet that was his friend. 778 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:09,760 Yeah. 779 00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,760 Well, and the spirit bore witness of the truth of the things that the prophets were telling 780 00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:16,400 Isaac knows that's true. 781 00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:21,280 And that ultimately God feels that way about him. 782 00:56:21,280 --> 00:56:29,880 And anyway, I'm just, we should just all be so thankful for the restored gospel of Jesus 783 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:36,480 Christ for what the Book of Mormon is teaches us what we understand about the infinite, 784 00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:43,680 infinite atonement of Jesus Christ, the justice which works both ways and the mercy which 785 00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:50,520 works both ways for sins and sinners and those who have been sinned against and those who 786 00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:55,440 are victims and those who have been abused and anyway. 787 00:56:55,440 --> 00:57:01,160 Well, infinite but yet individual in its most perfect form to right. 788 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,920 Elder Maxwell, infinite but intimate. 789 00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:05,920 Yeah. 790 00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:06,920 Yeah. 791 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,600 It is infinite but intimate. 792 00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,160 And I know that's true. 793 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:18,280 I hope our listeners will feel the spirit of that and and do what they need to do. 794 00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:27,120 I think there it takes work, it takes study, it takes effort to really get your own testimony 795 00:57:27,120 --> 00:57:30,840 and understanding of these things. 796 00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:33,000 And I hope our listeners will do that. 797 00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:34,000 Yeah. 798 00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:35,000 As do I. 799 00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:36,000 Great day. 800 00:57:36,000 --> 00:57:38,040 Thanks so much, David. 801 00:57:38,040 --> 00:57:45,640 As always, we start to move through the effects and now as we begin to talk about how do we 802 00:57:45,640 --> 00:57:50,000 actually put on the atonement of Jesus Christ, what does that look like, what's the role 803 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,320 of faith and so on. 804 00:57:52,320 --> 00:57:56,760 We'll be moving that into the weeks to come. 805 00:57:56,760 --> 00:57:59,920 Such a joy for David and I to be able to talk about these things. 806 00:57:59,920 --> 00:58:06,480 It means so much to both of us and to see and hear about through your emails how this is 807 00:58:06,480 --> 00:58:09,640 affecting your lives as well. 808 00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:10,640 Thanks for being with us. 809 00:58:10,640 --> 00:58:15,080 We appreciate your time today and look forward to being with you again next week. 810 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:16,480 And until then, take care.