Hey there everybody welcome back another episode of Redeem Through His Blood Scott Durfee
here and as always joined by David Durfey. How are you Dave?
Great. Fun to be with you Scott.
Another day and a
Great day.
Great day to talk about these really important things. I love that we're, I love the topic
that we're talking about today.
Yeah, we are kind of in the heart and center of our course here.
Yeah.
Because I, not to repeat, but to repeat, you know, if people will really understand the
events of the Atonement, they'll be humbled. And if they can really understand the effects
of the Atonement and all that the Atonement covers Scott, wow, they will be filled with
such gratitude and peace, which will give them the motivation and the love that they
need really to really use to allow the Atonement to flow into their, into their lives.
In a world where gratitude and peace aren't necessarily the predominant norm, it's a
really kind of refreshing and inspiring activity to take a look at this. I know that, you know,
as I attend our Institute class at Deben Eye Teach, as I'm involved in the rooms of recovery
through Alcoholics Anonymous and other AA programs, just to see this power that we're
talking about at work into the lives of others actually helps me to see it at work in my
own life sometimes better too, you know, and it's, so I love that. I love that we're talking
about these. I love our stories that we talked about last week. I know we've got a couple
of more to come this week as we emphasize and bring, bring light to the important doctrine,
the things that we're talking about. So anyway, Dave, wasn't it Wilson Smith that developed
the, the Alcoholics Anonymous? Oh, that was Bill Wilson, Bill Wilson, Dr. Bill Wilson,
Bob Smith. Yeah, two guys. All right. And I know that they felt inspired to do that.
Well, you know, by the spirit to do that, right? They, well, they, it's pretty directly
actually, you know, if you, if I, and I heard this, in fact, I was laying on a beach about
eight or nine years ago when I heard Bill Wilson, it's a recording, he's been dead for
many years. But talk about how he received a revelation on the 12 steps of Alcoholics
Anonymous and they came to him, a light came into his room. I mean, it's something that
is stuff that we're familiar with. Yeah. And, and if, right, the fruit, you're, how do you
judge a by the fruit sheet by their fruit? The fruits, the fruits of that revelation
have been amazing. Yeah, millions, literally millions. And you know, and I don't know how
many hundreds of thousands. And I, you know, I don't know. So hundreds of thousands may
be even low. How many hundreds of thousands of Alcoholics Anonymous meetings are or, or
meetings like that, you know, other recovery groups, most other recovery groups kind of
spawn from that as well. And you know, Dave, there's something really cool about those
meetings at the end of each meeting. And I've been to meetings all over the world, literally.
And at the end of each meeting, we say what's called a serenity prayer, or we say the Lord's
Prayer, or, you know, there's a couple of others. But, you know, in that serenity prayer,
we do that with the intent, we always say for the alcoholic who still suffers both in
and out of these rooms. And I think that that is that prayer. And I think that that prayer
actually invokes the spirit, the administrator of the Atonement of Jesus Christ into the
lives of those who need it to us to inspire us. And I literally believe that I was prayed
there by hundreds of thousands about all like synonymous on it. I'm sure God hears those
prayers. I know it is which step is the second or third that recognizing that there's a greater
power than ourselves and that without power.
Yeah, they're all built around that. But it's introduced as the second step came to believe
that a power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.
Okay, so and you've told me before that you think that's maybe the most important step.
That is the most important step. And it just everything else kind of centers around that.
And my thoughts about that is it's a miracle and, you know, praise the Lord that Wilson,
Brother Wilson, I'll call him and Brother Smith, you know, that they came up with with
this that have blessed so many people. But Scott, wouldn't it have been awesome if they
could have known the details of how that power is possible? Yeah, how that power is administered
and how the Atonement of Jesus Christ makes all those gifts of mercy and grace and power
and you know how that how that really just think how knowing the specifics, the events
and the effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ could strengthen that that step.
Well, and it does it for those of us who embrace that and you know, there's there's a lot of
reasons why it wasn't obviously and Father knew what he was doing all religions and all
and there's an entire chapter churches but religions. There's an entire chapter in the
big book of Alcoholics Anonymous to agnostics and that might be the most spiritual chapter
in the whole book by my estimation it is. But you know, so it had to be it had to be
a big basket, a big wide net to and to to allow those of us. And you know, and the other
thing is to Dave, a lot of folks that come into Alcoholics Anonymous and it's just also
true in our culture, the LDS culture are coming in with a big time resentment against organized
religions. So, you know, to be able to kind of work it the way that it's worked, you know,
a power greater than me rather than then coming right out. And then what that does is that
allows us through our own discovery through the Spirit to find what that is. And inevitably
it leads us to the truth.
Well I think I said last in our last podcast last time that you know, it's this is really
about church. This understanding of the events and the effects of the Atom of Jesus Christ
is just pure gospel, the fullness of the gospel.
Well, and what it does is it invites us into a relationship and eventually for those of
us in the church, a covenant relationship, but what it does is it invites us into a relationship
wherein healing and processing and all that needs to take place so that our lives can
be what they were intended to be can be.
Yeah, so I hope all our listeners can just not just listen but to seek to study, to ponder,
to pray, to really come to a deeper understanding and appreciation for all that the Atonement
of Jesus Christ covers. You know, Scott, I've in all the classes I've attended and all the
talks I've heard and then all the things that goes on in the church, it's still somewhat
surprising to me how little, and I'm not being critical, this is just an observation, not
trying to be critical and I'm not thinking any one individual, but just kind of how limited
so many people see the Atonement of Jesus Christ. They just, if we can just understand
the effects, the universal, unconditional effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ,
how it could inspire us, guide us, fill us with the Spirit, fill us with love, fill us
with peace, fill us with joy, answer so many, so many hard questions. You know, when I taught
young adults for so many years and they came in with all these questions about whether it's
about sexual identity or whether it's about all of the injustice and all of the unfairness
of life, all of that, Scott, can be answered. And I know it doesn't make it necessarily
sometimes any easier, but all of that can be answered and you can find joy and you can
find peace in some of the most difficult challenges and adversities and trials of life if we just
understood the universal, unconditional and conditional effects of the Atonement of Jesus
Christ.
You know what the Atonement of Jesus Christ does for us is it gives us answers to those
questions and those questions that we struggle with, the answers that we so often think,
okay, what is the answer to this question? What is the answer to this problem? What is
the anecdote to the things that I'm facing? What are the steps that I need to take in
order to overcome? Where the Atonement of Jesus Christ helps us to recapitulate that
to instead of what, to who?
Amen. And again, when you're filled with that understanding, our hearts, our hearts, our
feelings, our emotions, our minds all turn to, turn to Jesus Christ and it's through
Him that we can receive the joy and purpose really that we seek in this life.
I'll never forget listening to Elder Razzband who was on the Utah State Commission suicide
prevention and he was on the statewide commission as an apostle of the Church of Jesus Christ,
Lord of the Saints. And anyway, he was speaking about that and I think it was three times
in his talk he said all of our problems, all of our solutions, all of our answers are
found in the Lord Jesus Christ and I would say understanding His mission, His purpose
and His Atonement. If we understood His purpose, His mission, His Atonement, the gift of the
Father in the form of His Son, if we understood all that and we understood the Father's plan,
wow, it is so filled with grace and mercy. Last time we talked, Scott, about how most
of the Heavenly Father's children are going to be saved in the celestial kingdom. I strongly
believe that. I heard Elder McConkie say that years and years ago just based upon that one
fact of all the little children who have died before the age of eight, which was 50% 200
years ago. I actually looked at statistic up once. I wanted to see if that was, if that
was just hearsay and I think it was actually like 48%. 48% 200 years ago, 200 and a few
years ago now, it's probably been 230 or 40 years ago now. 48% of children didn't make
it to the age of eight. Yeah, statistically that's half. Yeah. It's within the. So, you
know, again, and think of the times before that in the dark ages and even worse times
before that and times when we weren't keeping records and for cultures who haven't, etc.
And I know it doesn't make it sometimes any easier when people lose children or when we
see children suffer. We still suffer, but there at least is an answer to that. There's
a purpose to that. There is a happy ending to that even though it's awful. I think of
all these headlines and all this suffering in Gaza right now, right? And in Ukraine
and all, you know, whenever you see the children suffering, man, it's hard. It's hard to watch.
It's hard to think about. But then our thoughts should go to thank God. Please bless the children.
I mean, it goes to a prayer really, right? We turn to a prayer and then we pray for the
suffering, those who are suffering. And we then thank God that he suffered for them and
that he redeemed them and saved them and that he that through through his atoning sacrifice
that that they're going to be fine and they're going to have everything they could have had
should have had would have had. So, Scott, I just, oh man, this the atonement Jesus Christ,
I know it's impossible to comprehend how he did it. And I know it's impossible to fully
comprehend what it covers, but I hope our listeners will have a desire to learn more
about what it covers because the more you understand about the grace and mercy, the
redemptive enabling and compensatory blessings that can flow into our life through the atonement
Jesus Christ, it really does answer life's hardest, most difficult problems and questions.
So let's continue on. We're talking about the unconditional effects of the atonement
of Jesus Christ overcoming the spiritual death created in this world universally through
the fall of Adam and Eve. So the atonement unconditionally covers all of us in some ways
or another, Scott. I mean, you've you've you've had your problems. You've had things forced
upon you. I've had things forced upon me. We've all all of us are victims. And I don't
mean that in a negative entitlement sort of way. We're all victims of the fall of Adam
and Eve and the sins and the blood of this generation. I mean, really, and me to extreme
lesser degree than so many others in this world. I we're so blessed. But Scott, we've
all been sinned against. And all of that is unconditionally covered through the atonement
of Jesus Christ. In fact, I think I think I can say all of the negatives in my life,
your life in the world, all of the negatives in the world that came about because of living
in a fallen hellish, celestial world are unconditionally covered by the atonement of Jesus Christ.
And just just think about that and how universal it's it's just so much deeper, broader than
we than we can comprehend really. But last time we talked about salvation of children,
we talked about those who are covered who ignorantly sin who die without the law. This
today I want to talk about a couple of other aspects of how the atonement unconditionally
covers the spiritual death of Adam and Eve. And one of those I'll share by telling this
story. I was the area director out in the Midwest for seminaries and institutes. And
I was invited to go to a North America Central Area meeting where our area president Hugh
Pinnock, a powerful general authority president in the 70, where he would be training stake
presidents who had Indian reservations within their stake. And man, there's there's a lot
of those out there in the Midwest, Scott. You know, in Utah, we we you think of a Native
American reservation, then we know there are a few and you think of the Four Corners area
and others, but there's a lot of them out there in the Midwest. You know, the the the
Mandan and the Sue and all the the Red Lake and the the winter Indian wet reservations
that are in Nebraska and the Dakotas and Minnesota. And he invited all the stake presidents
that covered those areas to there were 40 of them. So we went to a meeting in Hardin,
Montana, which he had arranged to be on the Crow Indian reservation in Hardin, Montana
and little branch building there. And he is really kind of and the reason I was there,
of course, was I was there because I covered the entire Midwest and had dozens of Indian
reservations and seminary and institute programs that that covered those Indian reservations.
So we get we go and he's he's at a point speaking to us where he's just really calling us to
repentance, and he's really letting us have it. And he makes this statement. If any of
you were born in their moccasins, some of you would not be as doing as well as you think
you would do. You wouldn't be doing any better than they were doing. And he was just telling
us we you can't judge these people. You have no idea what they've been through. For generations,
you cannot judge these people. And and he he went on to to quote from Alma. And he says,
I know, I know what the three worst sins are. I know what Alma says about that. I know the
worst sin is the sin of denying the Holy Ghost, the unpardonable sin. I know that and I believe
it. And I believe the second worst sin is Alma says is to commit murder. That's the second
worst sin. But he says Alma says the third worst sin is adultery. He says I actually
believe there's a sin worse than adultery. And that's when you write off somebody. Whenever
you write off somebody, that's a form of murder. You write them off. He said you're committing
a sin worse than adultery. I could tell he really felt strongly about that and what what
I heard and felt I didn't disagree. And then he then he quoted the scripture that he believed
that the greatest gift that we needed as leaders and as priesthood leaders was and he turned
to a doctrine comes section 46, which is a revelation on on the gifts of the spirit,
the Holy Spirit. And I, you know, I knew this section and I knew this gift, but I had heard
it interpreted in different ways. I never heard it heard it interpreted this way. But
he's reading about the gift of administration. And let's read the verse and then I'll tell
you what he said about it. So there's doctrine and covenant section 46 verse 15. And again,
to some it is given by the Holy Ghost to know the differences of administration as it will
be pleasing unto the same Lord, according as the Lord will suiting his mercies, according
to the conditions of the children of men. So the gift of administration is to know how
to suit God's mercy to the children of men, or in other words, according to Elder Pinnock
Hugh Pinnock, the gift of administration is know how to administer the atonement of Jesus
Christ into the lives of others. What a powerful gift. All parents need that gift. All children
need that gift. How to administer the atonement lives of their parents now parents can minister
the atonement lives of their children and how I can administer the atonement lives of strangers
or friends or enemies or whoever we all need that gift we all know we all need the gift
to know how to how to administer mercy how to suit mercy according to the conditions
of the children of men. And I remember him saying you cannot judge these people. You
cannot write them off. You cannot write them off. Well, this my my I was just personally
filled with spirit in that meeting. I sat across the table from him at lunch. It was
in the morning that he had talked about that and at lunch I was sitting across the table
from him. And I was just kind of wrestling with this idea a little bit. And I just said
to him, Elder Pinnock, I loved what you taught us this morning about suiting suiting the
Lord's mercy according to the conditions of the children of men. But how do I how do
I reconciliation that with the scripture in first Corinthians chapter 10 verse 13 that
says, see Scott, I think I've got it right here. First Corinthians 10 13 says, there
hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man. But God is faithful who will
not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able. I just asked him, I said, how do
I reconcile ciliate suiting mercies according to the conditions of men with there's no
temptation that is not common to man and that God will deliver us. And he kind of kind of
winces at me a little bit and and he says to me, well, Brother Durfee, there's a difference
between temptations and conditions. As all he said to me, and it was like 1000 lights
for me, Scott, really, I mean, it was so enlightening to me. I knew I knew I got it. In other words,
we all do have temptations. But that's different than being born into conditions that we didn't
choose. That's that's different than conditions that you have no control over at all. You
have control over temptations. Sure, you have agency. And you can control temptations.
You can choose whether to give into a temptation or not. But you absolutely cannot control
sometimes the conditions that you are born into or that are heaped upon you upon you
without your choice. There's a there's a difference between conditions and temptations. And the
atonement of Jesus Christ covers all the negative conditions. That was one of the most profound
moments of my life and answered so many and has ever since then answered so many difficult
situations and problems that I've faced in my life with my with my own children without
my adopted son who went to prison, who I spoke about last time and and just so many of those
things that you see in the world that you go, well, that's not right. That's not fair.
That's not that's not just Jesus Christ atonement unconditionally unconditionally covers all the
negative conditions. Suiting his mercies suiting I think of a tailor, the tailor making a suit,
right, suiting, covering, suiting us, covering us, tailor made tailor made suit of mercy.
This cloak covering an atonement means kafar covering a covering of his mercy unconditionally
to cover all of the negative sometimes awful terrible conditions of the children of men.
Well, I've loved that and I have seen it all over in conference talks and scriptures since
then, which I would have which I think I may have missed if I hadn't learned that from
Elder Pinnock on a Crow Indian reservation. Dave, that has application to all of us,
not just those in the Crow Indian reservation, not just those that have been raised in depravity
and all of those other things. I think that that scripture has application even to those
of us probably who have been active in the church and have literally tried, when I say
all of us, I should say all of them that have literally tried all their lives to live the
gospel of Jesus Christ because of the fall, because of the veil, because of all of the
things that we face here in mortality. There are conditions and there's conditions that's
heaped upon each one of us and there's also conditions that we inadvertently, probably
potentially heap upon others as we're raising them as well. And it's comforting to know
that all parents, I think, what parent hasn't thought, oh, my kid has made a mistake, where
did I go wrong? And sometimes, yeah, we do need to be accountable. Sometimes we do need
to take inventory and take a look at our own lives. But other times we need to extend our
self's mercy. And other times we need to extend ourselves some grace and just understand
that there are conditions and I didn't mean to and I'm doing the best that I can and they're
doing the best that they can. And because of this scripture, those who know that God's
judgments will be suited according to the conditions of men, that's an individual thing.
That's not a blanket proposition. That's individual. That's part of the individuality of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ. Amen. But just if we all receive that gift of the Spirit, Scott, think
about this for a minute. If we could all receive that gift of the Spirit, pray for that gift,
use that gift towards myself to know how to suit mercy and to use the Atonement of Jesus
Christ in my own life according to my own conditions. And then you as an Elder's Corn
President to administer the Atonement of Jesus Christ into the lives of others to know how
to suit his mercies according to others' conditions. Right. A bishop, a mother, a father, a friend.
I mean, think about the effects if we could all understand and receive that gift of the
Spirit in our life, how it can make a difference in not only our life, but the lives of so
many others. So in essence, what we're talking about, Scott, is Jesus Christ and his Atonement.
Not only did he suffer for all of the iniquities of life, but he suffered for all the inequalities
of life. I mean, just think how universal that is. Elder Bednar said it this way in
an amazing talk called The Atonement and the Journey of Mortality. It's back in April 2012.
The Savior has suffered not just for our iniquities, but also for the inequality, the unfairness,
the pain, the anguish, and the emotional distresses that so frequently beset us. There is no
physical pain, no anguish of soul, no suffering of spirit, no infirmity or weakness that you
or I ever experienced during our mortal journey that the Savior did not experience first.
And it's not just that he experienced it and can offer us divine empathy, but in some of
this, he unconditionally covered it and compensates us for things that we had no choice over.
This is Elder Richard G. Scott. The Atonement will not only help us overcome our transgressions
and mistakes, but in his time, it will resolve. So not just he not only feels it, understands
it, but the Atonement of Jesus Christ will resolve all the inequities of life. Those things
that are unfair, which are the consequences of circumstance or others acts, not of our
own decisions. Elder Quintenelle Cook. Jesus Christ is our Savior and Redeemer, whose Atonement
not only provides for salvation and exaltation, but also will compensate for all the unfairness
of life. The first time I read that about the compensatory power of the Atonement of
Jesus Christ, Scott, that I don't have the quote with me right here, but it was the first
presidency statement on the disease of AIDS. When that was really controversial, when Magic
Johnson had AIDS and nobody, Carl Malone and others weren't going to play basketball
and everybody was kind of freaking out because they believed you could get it if you touched
somebody else's blood. There were a lot of babies and there were innocent spouse or others
who were getting this awful disease of AIDS. The first presidency, and I remember there
were a lot of Christian churches. There were several evangelical churches. This became
quite controversial, who believed that this disease was God's way of punishing homosexuals.
I remember thinking, that's not the God I believe in. I was so grateful when it became
so controversial that the church produced an official statement on the churches, on
the Church of Christ position on AIDS and they came out and said, you know, that this
was not God punishing his children because there were too many innocent people who were
dying from it. This was not coming from God. Then in the very last part of that first presidency
statement, which I think was like 1981, they had essence said, because of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ, all of those who suffer innocently will receive compensatory blessings through
Jesus Christ and His Atonement. That was the first time really in my life, Scott, where
I go, wow, compensatory powers. That's one of the major powers out of the Atonement of
Jesus Christ, is that it covers all of those who suffer innocently. The brethren have been
talking about it ever since, but I think 1881 was the first time that phrase was maybe
really used. It's one of my favorites to describe. Listen to this one line here from elder Todd
Christopherson in a conference not long ago. He said, the Atonement also satisfies the
debt of justice, which justice owes to us by healing and compensating us for any suffering
we innocently endure. So justice, not just mercy, but even in the law of justice, Scott,
the law of justice demands that there be a certain fairness and the Atonement of Jesus
Christ not only merciful, but it's just because justice owes us who suffer innocently something
and the Atonement covers that. Again, meeting the demands of justice. I love this by Elder
Werthlin. The Lord compensates the faithful for every loss that which is taken away from
those who love the Lord will be added unto them in his own way. While it may not come
at the time we desire, the faithful will know that every tear today will eventually be returned
a hundred fold with tears of joicing and gratitude. And sweet Elder Anderson, this is in, I was
kind of interesting that I pointed this out to him. We should put this in your books and
she wrote it. This is one of my favorite quotes from Elder Anderson, which he actually gave
it a BYU devotional. He said, As evil increases in the world, there is a compensatory spiritual
power for the righteous. As the world slides from its spiritual moorings, the Lord prepares
the way for those who seek Him, offering them greater assurance, greater confirmation, and
greater confidence in the spiritual direction they are traveling. The gift of the Holy Ghost
becomes a brighter light in the emerging twilight. I know that's true. And I think about the
youth, today's youth, Scott. I mean, it wasn't easy to be, you know, a good Christian or
a good Latter-day Saint in my day, and it wasn't in your day. But I don't know if I
could do it in today's day. I wouldn't want to be a youth today. You know, I mean, really,
the world is becoming increasingly wicked, evil. I remember President Packer saying,
We have now crossed the point. He told the missionary, there's this in a devotional at
the MTC where I was present. And he said, The world is now more wicked than it is righteous.
I remember thinking, Wow, I'm glad I'm not a youth or, and I know as a patriarch giving
blessings to, you know, the youth that they were prepared for this. They knew this. This
is this. They were well prepared. And I'm not making excuses for them. I'm just saying
that there is more difficult, sinful conditions today than there were even when we were born.
And I know that there are compensatory powers in the lives of the youth and others that
they enjoy because of Jesus Christ and His Atonement.
Yeah. And I think I get to see that. You know, I know that, you know, you've been retired
a minute and been away from the classroom. But, you know, Deb and I have that opportunity
on a weekly basis. In fact, we'll be there tonight. And, you know, we were there last
week and it was amazing as we did our opening social last week for Institute, how many young
adults were there and how they sing, you know, the hymns, the hymns of the restoration was
so much testimony and so much spirit. And yeah, there's there's difficulty. They face
difficulty. But David, you know, when you and I were younger, there was a big, wide
gray area, you know, and I pretty much lived it. I know you didn't, but I pretty much lived
in that big, wide gray area. I don't know. I think I do. I just never wait too much
at the time myself. That gray area is way narrower today. And I'm
this is just anecdotal. This is just based on my observation, but it's pretty accurate
observation. I'm pretty in touch with it, you know, because of my experiences, etc.
The youth today are feeling and enjoying those who are aligning, those who are accepting
and those who are taking to heed. Who will receive the gift? Exactly. Dr. McCombs and
Sadie, the gift and the giver of the gift. Exactly. They receive the gift and the giver
because of their obedience and strict adherence to the stuff that they're hearing from our
prophets and apostles today. And so, you know, as part of that compensatory blessing to them
is the love that they feel from the apostles and prophets today, which inspired them because
of their gratitude to align probably more closely than I don't know other generations
in the past have with our Heavenly Father, Dave. Yeah. All because of the compensatory
blessings. Right, Scott. Right. I, you know, I'm thinking of someone right now who I know
who was, you know, sexually abused over and over again. And I, I know the effects that
had on that child when that child grew up and became an adult and no doubt in my mind and
by the spirit, I know that some of the choices that they made were the result of conditions
forced on them, sins committed against them, not of their own choice or choosing. And honestly,
I, it's, it, it doesn't make it less sad knowing that, but it can bring some peace in sorrow.
That's so true. Because I know that the atonement has that individual. Yeah. That the atonement
covers that individual. That if sins are, that if wrongs are committed because of sins committed
against you, that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers that. That's, that is the power of
the atonement of Jesus Christ, the compensatory and redeeming and enabling powers of the atonement
of Jesus Christ in our life. I know a Bishop who shared with me a Bishop of a young adult
ward who would have individuals come in who had committed sins of immorality and how because
of maybe having been a missionary or, or having, you know, lived in a something of an ideal
Latter-day St. Home or family that they were, they were definitely more accountable and
that maybe one or two acts of immorality or fornication would justify him by the spirit
really as a judge in Israel where he felt like it would be helpful to them out of love
that they have a, what they used to call disciplinary counsel or a membership counsel now. It's
what we use the, what we call it. And so he had a lot of those, but he said I was shocked
one Sunday when a girl came in and she had written down that she had committed fornication
thirty-nine times. And as he said, I began to, to talk to her and question her and get
to know her, how she had experienced rape as a child and had been so sexually violated
as a child that she had completely in essence had the, her conscience, which I believe is
a light to be able to discern light. The conscience is like a pair of eyes that allows us to be
able to discern light. And she, she was just so her thinking and spiritually she became
so distorted that he said, I remember thinking, wow, thirty-nine times and I can't have a
disciplinary counselor, membership counsel for her. The atonement covers her and he knew
that there were just some basic things that he had to do to help her to receive it. I
mean, Scott, I'm not the judge and I'm not, I'm not saying I, I only God can judge. Only
He really knows perfectly what mercies we can, how to suit His mercies according to the conditions
of men. And that is a gift that all of us should covet, all of us should seek to receive
is to know how to offer mercy, how to offer grace, and how to receive it right grace for
grace, how to receive grace and mercy by offering the atonement. And, and even again, as you
point out so, so well, so important to ourselves.
Right.
I don't, I'm not even sure we can judge ourselves in some way, Scott.
Right.
I think the Lord in some ways may be more merciful in His judgment of us than we are of us. But
the point is, the power and comprehension of the atonement of Jesus Christ is just unimaginable.
You know, Dave, I think it was Eleanor Roosevelt said that we are our own worst critics and
we believe others see us that same way. And we really do. You know, I know that I do.
I know that I still battle with this and I've had a recent wrestle with this, you know,
just because of my my fall because of my personal fall, etc. But to really believe that, you
know, it's so easy, you know, in alcoholics, not a mess. We talk about, you know, we have
these sayings that we say and one of them is that we believe that God could and would
if he were sought. If we seek God that he that not only not only can he but he will.
And for many of us, I've said this fact I say this when I speak quite frequently, I
believed that God could and would if he were sought for you. But I had a difficult time
believing that for me, because of the way that I chose to receive the programming in
my life, and believed that perfection because I was raised a certain way that I was responsible
a certain way. What I didn't realize is that the way I was raised may not have been necessarily
the way that I thought I was raised. There was there is there is fall and mortality in
every experience that we have in this life and suiting that judgment according to the
conditions of man is not just important that we extend that to others. But maybe we need
to look first to ourselves. And then and then by then and thereby we become equipped also
to extend it to others. Dave, I agree. Everybody's story is different. Totally different. No two
stories are the same. And not only that, but our individual stories also change. True.
They change with our perspective. They change with our experience. They change with the
energy that we give it or take from it. And all of that is also conditioned or can be
conditioned upon the way that we receive the blessing that we just talked about from the
Atonement of Jesus Christ. I love this talk that our newest apostle, the newest apostle
Elder Patrick Kiran, who I had the pleasure of meeting when he came and did a devotional
for us at the Utah Valley University Institute of Religion. It was a you know, it was really
a sweet experience for him to speak to our faculty and to meet him personally and then
to have him speak to our students. He is he is so I mean, he is he is so kind. He is
so loving. He is so just down to earth, Scott. And recently he gave a talk. This is just
not even two years ago. This is April 2022. And I just have loved using this quote over
and over again. But let me just read a couple paragraphs. He's he's talking about to those
who have been abused, those who suffered, which he is, you know, he was born in England
and has been around the world is I think he parents, if I remember, was in the Middle
East and he lived there for a while. And, you know, he's he he's very experienced with
this. Anyway, Elder Kiran says, perhaps some of you, however, consider the accounts of
survivors and your soul cries out that you are living that you are living a survival
story right now as a victim of abuse, neglect, bullying, domestic violence, or any suffering
of this kind. You are in the midst of your own desperate attempt to survive a situation
that feels very much like a disastrous shipwreck or a promising mission suddenly aborted, which
you didn't choose. Will you ever be rescued? Will you make it through your own survival
story? And then he says, the answer is yes, you can survive. You have in fact already
been rescued. You have already been saved by the one who has suffered the very torment
you are suffering and endured the very agony you are enduring. Jesus has overcome the abuses
of this world to give you power to not only survive, but one day through him to overcome
and even conquer, to completely rise above the pain, the misery, the anguish, and see
them replaced by peace. And then he quotes that great scripture in in Romans, who shall
separate us from the love of Christ, shall tribulation, distress, persecution, or famine,
or nakedness, or peril, or sword, nay, nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors
through him that loved us. That's the power, unconditional blessings, compensatory blessings,
Scott of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. Understanding that and feeling that causes us to be so
filled with gratitude and love for our Heavenly Father's plan and our Savior's willingness
to carry it out.
Sometimes I think it might be more important for it, well, sometimes I think it might be
really important for us to begin our approach of the Atonement at the compensatory blessings,
because Dave, once I feel the compensatory blessings that work in my life, then I've
removed the distraction from my life, at least for now, and I'll have to come back to that
and do it again and again, at least that's been my experience. But then I've removed
the distraction from my life in order for me, and I feel more able to put on the other
components of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. I feel more worthy to approach him in my repentance.
I feel more able to receive the enabling and strengthening blessings that can come to me,
because I feel better aligned. Because there's just, you know, the accuser again, right?
We'll get us to believe that our conditions are who we are, not our conditions.
So important, Scott, what you just said. You know, when you have a child who's making
bad decisions and choices, don't talk about their behaviors. Talk about this doctrine.
Talk about the compensatory powers. Talk about the mercy. Talk about the grace. Talk about
the Atonement of Jesus Christ, the depth, the breadth, you know, how much of the Atonement
of Jesus Christ is there for them, because that's what will frankly enable them, strengthen
them, to be able to keep the commandments. It's the most motivating power on this earth,
is to understand the love of God in offering his son and the love of Jesus Christ in the
giving of his blood, his life, his everything, to save his brothers and sisters and our heavenly
father's children. I mean, understanding that, Scott, is what leads people to find their
purpose and to find peace and to find the, not just the ability or the will, but even
the beginning desires to change and to repent.
I've heard people in the past talk about how the Atonement of Jesus Christ was an invitation
and it felt inviting to them. You know, when Jesus says, come unto me, well, that's, you
know, how we come unto him is through his Atonement. In the past for much, for part
of my life, David, didn't feel inviting. It filled in dining. It filled, it felt like
the Atonement of Jesus Christ was an indictment to me, not an invitation to heal, but an indictment
for me to expose where I was such a loser, so to speak. This compensatory blessings that's
offered to us will negate all of that because it's through the compensatory blessings that
I'm most able, I feel heavenly fathers love through all of it, but it's where I personally
feel a greater degree with more intensity, with more purpose that goes straight to the
heart of my soul through the compensatory blessings. I think that, and again, getting
back to which is, which enables me and it further invites me to put on the rest of the
Atonement.
Well, that's a profound question we should all ask ourselves where we're really at in
our relationship with Jesus Christ is do we see the Atonement as inditing or inviting?
And however you answer that question, we'll tell you where you're at in your relationship.
Right, and if the...
And probably in your understanding as well.
It probably more important...
Your understanding, importantly.
And your relationship.
And if it fills in inditing, if it fills in inditing, then we are not going to accept
an invitation. But once we've removed that and we fill the love of the compensatory blessings,
that invitation becomes so real to us.
That's really profound, thank you, Scott. We need to all remember that. The Atonement
of Jesus Christ should be inviting, not inditing. And it is. If we really understand it...
If we understand it, if we don't listen to the words of the accuser...
If we understand it, it really is inviting. I mean, if you understand all the conditional
aspects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, then you are... you have a greater desire,
motivation, and strength to participate in the conditional aspects of the Atonement of
Jesus Christ, which includes faith and baptism and receiving ordinances and keeping covenants
and all of that. Those are all the conditional aspects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ,
which we'll talk more about in the next podcast or two after this.
But we're still focused right now on my favorite part of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which
are the unconditional aspects and effects of the Atonement in our lives.
There's one last one, Scott, and we'll just touch on this briefly. When it comes to overcoming
spiritual death, which is the first negative consequence of the fall of Adam and Eve, is
how the Atonement of Jesus Christ... because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we will
all... all return to the presence of God.
Word all is complete. That's inclusive of every one of us, Dave. So are you mean... you
mean sons of perdition? You...
I mean all...
Those who don't...
All of all...
Those who don't eventually accept that to degree... the highest degree of glory?
This is taught a dozen times in the Book of Mormon, Scott. Brother Matthews really taught
this to me, and he taught it to so many others. But this is where I... it's where I first
learned it was setting its feet of Brother Robert Matthews. And his... his favorite scripture
on it, I think, was Heloman 14. And again, it's over and over again in the Book of Mormon.
But I just think, again, this... this motivates me because I know I'm gonna... I can't just
go commit all the sins I want to commit and then just go be cast out to outer darkness
or... or even the terrestrial kingdom or even the terrestrial kingdom and not face God.
There is going to be a face to face. We are all going to return to the presence of God.
And that... that's... that's motivating to me. That affects me, Scott. So in Heloman 14,
this is doctrine taught powerfully by Samuel Lamanite. Verse 15,
For behold, he, speaking of Christ, surely must die, that salvation may come. Ye it behoove
with him, and becomeeth expedient, that he dyeth, to bring to pass the resurrection of the dead,
that thereby men may be brought into the presence of the Lord. Now get this. Verse 16,
Ye behold, this death bringeth to pass the resurrection, and redeemeth all mankind. All...
did you get that, Scott? All mankind from the first death. That spiritual death. For all mankind,
by the fall of Adam, being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead,
both as to things temporal or physical, and to things spiritual. But behold, verse 17,
But behold, the resurrection of Christ redeemeth mankind, yea, even all mankind, and bringeth
them back into the presence of the Lord. Now, Scott, I know the Scripture says no unclean
thing can dwell in the presence of God. I know we can't dwell there, but we will return there.
We will all go back to God to be judged, and it will be face to face. And I love to think that,
like President Benson said, we'll all be surprised how familiar, we'll all be surprised how familiar
the Father seems to us, and we'll all be overcome by the love that he has for us. And then based
upon our choices, our decision, accountability, the righteous judgment, we'll go where we can thrive,
according to our desires, and our will, and what we want. I mean, that's right, that's the way it
is. But we will not escape. Because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, we left God's presence, and
because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ is also taught powerfully in Jacob's discourse in 2nd
Ephi 9, and in other places. Because we left God's presence, came to a fallen world, we will return
to His presence because of the Atonement of Jesus Christ and the resurrection. And then there will
be a judgment. But I think that doctrine is important for us to understand. And I think most
people don't necessarily see it that way. And I just think about that. I know the Prophet
Joseph Smith said we should think more about that. We should think more about, President
Elton just, I think, taught that we all need to be thinking a little more celestial, meaning
having an eternal perspective. And look to the end from the beginning, see the end, see the end
from the beginning. I know that because of Christ, that we will return to the presence of God. And
I hope that we can all look forward to that.
In this episode, and the one before it, is actually where we start to fill the personal
application or how the application of Jesus' Atonement is at work in our life. If that's not
our experience, then I'm going to invite us to open our hearts and our minds and allow that to be
the experience. Because if we just have an intellectual relationship with the things that
we've been talking about, and it's easy to do, especially with the things that we've been talking
about up until now, even with those, I invite us to have a more than just an intellectual
relationship. We're inviting us to come unto Him, to have that relationship with Him, for that is
really what it's all about. But you know, as we talk about the effects of the Atonement of Jesus
Christ, and this is going to be true last week, true this week, and true in the weeks to come,
I invite us all to start seeing where we can do a better job in accepting the effects of the
Atonement of Jesus Christ in our lives. Because that's really all it is. It's just a
lot about us aligning with it so that we can accept it, especially when it comes to these,
the unconditional components, the unconditional blessings, the unconditional effects of the
Atonement of Jesus Christ. I love today that the Atonement of Jesus Christ is indeed an
invitation for me to come unto Him rather than an indictment of my own fallenness. That has made
all the difference for me. May that do the same for you and in all that we do. That's our prayer.
We look forward to being with you again next week. Thanks so much for being with us today,
and always be well.