Hey there everybody and welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, Scott
Durfey here and David Durfey here.
Hi Dave.
Hey Scott.
Excited to be here today.
Excited about our topic.
Yeah, me too.
We've been through several weeks as we've talked about the events of the Atonement of
Jesus Christ and if you're just joining us, I invite you to go back and listen to those.
Now today and going forward for the next probably several weeks, we'll be talking about the
effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, where they come into our lives, where the
blessings are available to us, how we access those and many, many, many other things.
So we're looking forward to that too.
Well my experience with this, Scott, and I just remind everybody this is based on a
course that I helped to design and we taught for many years at Utah Valley University Institute
and then Elder Anderson wrote a book which I assisted him on covering this topic about
how to access the Atonement of Jesus Christ and for the last several weeks now we've talked
about kind of the historicity or the historical events, right, of the Atonement of Jesus Christ
and my experience Scott, as I witness students coming to my class was that that was very,
very, very humbling, if they really came to understand the events of the Atonement, it
really, really humbled them and based upon our reading of Alma 32, when Alma says the
word had a more powerful effect upon the mind of the people than the sword or anything else,
I really witnessed that when people understand the Atonement, the events, the actual carrying
out and what Jesus sacrificed, it humbled them and in Alma 32 Alma tells the people,
hey, it's good that you've been compelled to be humble, kind of hit the rock bottom
when they were cast out of their homes and their synagogues and you know here are all
these poor people who show up on the hill called O'Nita and Alma tells them, hey, it's
good that you're compelled to be humble, but it would have been better and it's always
more powerful if you would have been humbled by the power of the word and when we talk
about the events of the Atonement Scott, I think that's the word he was talking about.
I think the word he's talking about and he actually clarifies this in Alma 33, this
is the word, this is the word that you should plant in your hearts, which would again have
a more powerful effect upon the minds of the people in the sword or anything else and would
humble them more than anything else.
That's you want to, you're there, you're looking at it.
It's Alma 33, like verse 22 or 23 second to the last verse in the chapter.
I'm going to start with verse 21, oh my brethren, if you could be healed by merely casting about
your eyes that you might be healed, would you not be healed quickly or would you rather
harden your hearts in unbelief and be slothful that you would not cast about your eyes that
you may, that you might perish?
So look, just look to that brazen serpent, you know, look up, look to the Savior and
you'll be healed, which has become the universal symbol for medical healing.
Right.
Sciences is that brazen serpent on a pole, but it's the next verse.
If so, woe shall come unto you, but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to
believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people and that he shall suffer
and die to atone for their sins, and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall
bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him to be judged at the
last and judgment day according to their works.
And then he says, this is the word.
And now, my brethren, I desire that you should plant this word.
This word.
In your hearts.
What word?
That Jesus Christ and him crucified, that Jesus Christ suffered, that he atoned, that
he died, was resurrected for us.
If you'll just plant the atonement, the events of the atonement in your word, there is nothing
that will be more humbling than that.
So I witnessed that as I as I taught this course, Scott, that if people would just really
study, understand, receive a witness of the Holy Ghost, of course, that Jesus really did
these things, it would humble them.
It would give them a broken heart and a contrite spirit, not only knowing what he did, but
who he did it for, and how our sins caused it.
If people just understand that basic, those basic ideas and doctrine.
Wow, it is so humbling.
And once the people are humble by the power of the word, then they are ready to learn
the doctrine of the effects, the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life.
And my experience, so we've spent maybe four weeks on the events of the atonement, and
we're going to spend two or three weeks on the effects of the atonement.
And what happens is, once my students really learn, once they really felt it in their hearts,
what Jesus had done for them, they were, were humble and their hearts were broken, their
spirits contrite.
And then you begin to speak about the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ and what
it covers and how we're all affected by it, effected and affected by it.
Then you become filled with gratitude.
And it is the gratitude that becomes the most powerful motivation to keep the commandments
and to repent and to keep us on the straight and narrow path and to hold to the iron rod
and to partake over and over and over again to go fall down at the tree and partake of
the fruit over and over again.
So anyway, in teaching the course, it was, it was so, and it affected me as well.
Scott, I, the teacher always gets more than the student, but what, but what we hope our
listeners will feel is understand the events which will humble you, break our hearts, soften
our hearts, make us ready to understand the doctrine of the effects of the atonement.
And when we understand the effects, we will be filled with such gratitude, such hope that
it will encourage us, give us the, the power that we need to continue on the path.
And this is, this is true, Scott, not only for active members of the church.
This is true for those who have left the church.
I had many students who were in a, in a crisis of faith who, some of them who came in very
skeptical and yet they had a friend who said, well, we're not talking about the church.
We're just talking about the gospel.
And they would come to a class and honestly, it's, it's not about the church.
This course is not about the church.
Now it just so happens that these doctrines are largely the result of the restoration
of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which came about because of, of restoration
scripture and because of profits and, and I bear testimony of that, but this is not
about the church.
This is about understanding the doctrine.
And I think the statement of President Packer when he says true doctrine understood changes
attitudes and behaviors.
Wow.
And the study of attitudes and behaviors.
This is the prime example of that.
I'm telling you, if you want to understand the events and then follows up the study and
understands the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, they will not only be humbled,
but they'll be filled with gratitude.
And we read this early on, but I, one of my favorite quotes, which I know is true from
Elder Richard G Scott is pondering the grandeur of the atonement evokes the most profound feelings
of awe, immense gratitude and deep humility.
And is that ever the truth?
I would probably go the other order.
I think it fills us with deep humility, immense gratitude and awe.
Then he says, those impressions can provide you powerful motivation to keep his commandments
and consistently, we would even say now, daily repent of errors for greater peace and happiness.
So I hope that as we start into this kind of new section of the course that our listeners
will be filled with with gratitude as they understand all that the atonement of Jesus
Christ covers.
And we, we are just so blessed to have these truths that have been restored.
So let's jump into it.
Scott the, the, the effects of the atonement.
So again, if one really wants to understand and appreciate the atonement, they have to
understand and appreciate the fall and the two major negatives of the fall, which are
spiritual death cut off from the presence of God and physical death that we're all going
to die and our spirits will leave our body.
So, so spiritual death is something that we're all going to experience.
We are not in the presence of God.
Even when we have the Holy Ghost with us, we have a member of the Godhead with us, which
helps us to be what we would call being born again, spiritually speaking.
But we're still in a sinful, fallen world and every day sin in some form or another
Scott, whether personal or otherwise, sin in this world affects us.
We're all tainted or affected by sin every day and we live in a, in a fallen, spiritually
lost world.
And there's a benedict and amulet and an Alma and Lehi and all the prophets of the Book
of Mormon and Paul himself and Corinthians, you know, that we all die spiritually speaking
because of the fall of Adam and Eve.
We're all lost.
We're all carnal.
We're all sensual devilish and and we feel it.
We're all, we're all natural man and and every day I feel it, whether it's some physical
challenge or some spiritual temptation or or mistake or weakness.
Anyway, spiritual death is real and let's maybe start with how the atonement of Jesus
Christ unconditionally.
So when we speak about the atonement, Scott, there's, there's the two negative effects
of the fall, spiritual, physical, right death.
And there's two major positives of the atonement.
Try, people can kind of see it.
See a graph of this.
We have one here on, on our screen that we're looking at.
And if people could try to visualize this, that there are two major positives of the
atonement, which is unconditionally the atonement unconditionally overcomes the fall of Adam
and Eve.
We're going to talk about all those today.
We're going to start talking about those today.
And it conditionally overcomes our personal fall of you and me through our faith and obedience.
So the two major positives of the atonement of Jesus Christ are the unconditional effects
and the conditional effects or some Pratt talked about that in a whole kind of discourse.
And I won't take time to read, read, read that quote.
It's one of my favorite quotes and Brother Matthews picked up on that Brother Matthews
who wrote the Bible dictionary and, you know, so helpful to my understanding of this, these
points of doctrine, you know, we don't spend enough time really in the church talking about
the unconditional effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ.
Unconditional Scott and most of the effects of the atonement are unconditional.
Heavenly Father has unconditionally saved most of his children.
That's quite a statement to make, but I'm going to make it.
I believe most of Heavenly Father's children being the celestial kingdom.
And I'm sure there's many listeners right now with their mouths wide open that I said
that.
But the reason I say that is because just 200 years ago and people can look this up,
the infant mortality rate was 50%.
Well, nobody understands the salvation, really exaltation of children like we do.
And where did we learn it?
We learned it in the Book of Mormon.
And then it was taught, of course, in the Doctrine and Covenants section 29 and other, other,
many other places, the salvation of children.
But Heavenly Father Scott has saved most of his children because of the salvation of
children.
I think that is just so hopeful.
So one of the real, maybe my favorite point of doctrine that has come about through the
restoration.
And so this is, this is point number one, that the Atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally
covers all children because they are innocent and alive in Christ as Mormon taught his son
Moroni in the church in the Book of Mormon.
Why don't we turn there, Scott?
And while you're turning there, I'm just going to tell this quick story that I've told many
times, but for many years I taught at the Missionary Training Center after my mission.
It wasn't even the Missionary Training Center.
It was the mission home up in Salt Lake City before there was an MTC.
And I had a companion up there by the name of Elder Hansen.
And Elder Hansen would share this story.
Every Tuesday morning I'd go up to Salt Lake and teach missionaries.
It was, I treasured that opportunity.
I was actually called by President Monson to do that and it was when he was an apostle,
of course, but he was over the missionaries and sent me a letter.
I was recommended and he sent me a letter and made it official.
And I'd go up there every Tuesday and Elder Hansen for a long time was one of my companions
and we would teach the missionaries.
And Elder Hansen would share this story.
He was on a mission in Canada and it was near the end of the day.
He was fairly new missionary.
And it was getting dark and they were starting to go back to their apartment.
There was this little white cottage down the lane and they felt impressed that they should
go knock on this cottage.
Then they knocked on the door and Elder Hansen would always say, this never happened to me
before and it never happened to me again.
But I heard a voice and the voice told me, read Moroni 8, 10 through 12.
Then he said, I didn't even know what Moroni 8, 10 through 12 said, but I unzipped my scripture
covers, which we used to have in those days.
And I was trying to find Moroni 8, 10 through 12 when a young woman answered the door.
And I just said to her, ma'am, I have a scripture to read to you.
Because he found it just as he began to speak.
And he started to read Moroni 8, 10 through 12, which says, Behold, I say unto you that
this thing shall ye teach repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable
of committing sin.
Ye teach parents they must repent and be baptized and humble themselves as their little children.
And they shall all be saved with their little children.
And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism, behold, baptism is unto repentance
to the fulfilling of the commandments unto the remission of sins.
But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world, if not so.
God is a partial God and also a changeable God and a respecter of persons for how many
little children have died without baptism.
Wow, there's just so much in that passage.
I read the scripture and I looked up and tears were streaming down her cheeks.
And she said, Who told you?
Who are you and who told you?
And he said, Ma'am, we're missionaries for the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints.
Nobody told us anything.
The Lord has sent us here.
And she told them that the experience that she had just gone through that two weeks ago,
she'd given birth to her first child, little boys, I remember, and that that child had
died a few hours after birth, which was devastating to her.
And she was a good Catholic and she went to her priest and and her priest told her, and
I'm sure he did it in the kindest, most loving way he possibly could.
But her priest told her that because her child had died without baptism, that her child was
in purgatory.
And she said, I knew that couldn't be true.
And I've been praying for two weeks for God to send somebody to me to tell me where my
little know where my little child is where my baby is.
Sweet.
Now, the Catholic Church, to be fair, has softened their position on that.
That was in that was back in the early 1970s.
And they've changed about 25 years ago.
They have they've kind of softened that that doctrine in their church.
But but but they still don't know anything about the salvation of children and no other
church, Christian church or religion does know anything about the salvation of little
children.
We know that because Christ and his Atonement, that little children are alive in Christ.
I am so grateful, Scott, for that, for that doctrine.
And you just think about the love of God for his children and how many children have died
before baptism, as Mormon asks in that scripture.
So I have some other thoughts about that, but I'm doing any or your thoughts.
Well, I do have thoughts, but I want to most of my thoughts are going to be when we get
into after we've also talked about the physical death, you know, and what comes as a part
of that.
But when we talk about spiritual and physical death, David, and I'll get and I'll talk
more about this when we get to that point.
But there are literally I don't I and I've challenged, you know, so Deb and I, my wife
and I teach Institute as a calling for a stake at BYU currently and have done for the last
four years now.
And when we talk about this, you know, we've taken the spiritual and physical death and
when we examine our lives and the challenges that come to us from in our lives, any challenge,
I think that I could categorically put into physical or spiritual death problem, right?
True.
Any problem that I have, literally anything that's going on in my life that is not that
is that is upsetting the apple that the apple card of peace or the apple card of contentment
or whatever.
I'm sure that's right.
Any problem I have, I think I can categorically put it into one of those.
And so I want to talk more about that when we get to the physical death date, because
there's a lot especially because of my background, because of my experience, especially in recovery
rooms, etc.
That you know, I want to address, but I'm going to hold on those.
The thing I want to I want to really emphasize is something that you've talked about is the
as part of the unconditional blessings that come to us as because of the Atonement of
Jesus Christ.
Let's go ahead and continue and then I'll pop in more.
Well, this this this one about children is is personal with me because even though there
is no official doctrine, Scott, in the church, there's been no revelation or official policy
on what we know or understand or believe about stillborn children.
But my wife has delivered three stillborns.
And so this doctrine gets really personal with me and we have named those children.
We believe all those children needed was a body.
They were they were delivered in the in the final trimester, these little one two pound
babies that she had to go through labor to deliver and buried on top of her actually
dad's grave in the in little teeny caskets.
I I personally know Scott that I have three little boys that I will see in the resurrection
and that all they needed was a body and and they're they're saved.
So this becomes this becomes personal for me and I always get emotional.
Well not always, but almost always I get emotional in the in the temple when I'm performing ceilings
and people will bring their names, right?
Couples to be sealed to each other's husband and wife, and then they'll bring names of
children to be sealed to parents.
And every time I get a card and on the card it lists where they were which temple they
were baptized in which temple they were confirmed in and there's a date and a temple and we're
doing the last ordinance for a child that we can perform for them which is to seal them
to their parents.
But children who die before the age of eight on the card it says baptism not needed confirmation
not needed initiatory not needed endowment not needed and I just go oh man this is one
of the greatest doctrines of the restoration is that we know that little children are unconditionally
saved in heaven.
Now in order to go the highest degree of the social kingdom they will have the opportunity
and will have to choose to be married.
They'll have every opportunity to do that and I can't imagine any of them who won't.
But I just think it is such a glorious principle for us to rejoice and to be grateful for that
most of the heavenly fathers children.
Just based on this doctrine alone half of them are in heaven and there will be many
more who never had the opportunity in this life who will choose and that becomes another
right that becomes another unconditional effect of the atonement of Jesus Christ is that those
who didn't who didn't have the law that they're they're they're covered as well so we're going
into another point here we'll leave children for a minute and let's talk about all those
who died without the law.
So let's let's let's just go Scott to Mosiah chapter three again this is taught in the
Book of Mormon I don't think anybody else understands this or so many Christians who
believe that if you die before you confess Jesus or before your baptize you're going
to go to hell.
Well we we completely reject that that is not the kind loving God that we that we believe
in that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers all of God's children according to their choices
and accountability for sure but also according to their conditions and their circumstances
and what they knew and what they didn't know there's just so many other the context and
circumstances anyway.
Let's let's read Mosiah chapter three starting with verse seven Scott and lo he shall suffer
temptations and pain of body hunger thirst and fatigue even more than man can suffer
except it be unto death for behold blood cometh from every poor so great shall be his anguish
for the wickedness and abominations of his people and he shall be called Jesus Christ
the Son of God the Father of heaven and earth the Creator of all things from the beginning
and his mother shall be called called Mary and lo he cometh unto his own that salvation
might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name and even after all this
they shall conquer they shall consider him a man and shall say he hath a devil and shall
scourge him and shall crucify him.
And so verse nine again and lo he cometh unto his own that salvation might come unto the
children of men even through faith on his name and even after all this they shall consider
him a man and shall say he hath a devil.
Okay and ten and eleven eleven's key verse and he shall rise on the third day from the
dead and behold he standeth to judge the world and behold all these things are done that
a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men.
That a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men all of God's children.
That's why these things were done.
Here is why he did it.
Here is why Christ carried out the atonement.
Here's why the Father sacrificed his only begotten Son.
That a righteous judgment.
I used to always ask my students so what's a righteous judgment.
Give me another word for righteous a blank judgment.
They would say loving.
I'd say good that's good.
A loving judgment.
But the one that I would stand out the most they would always say you know these are young
adults and they're all about this.
They would say a fair judgment.
It would be fair.
I would say it would be equitable.
Right?
It's this is this is the judgment that the atonement allows God to make a fair kind loving judgment.
And verse eleven.
For behold and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression
of Adam who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them or who have ignorantly
sinned.
Or who have ignorantly sinned.
Right.
Who have ignorantly sinned.
How many people have died not knowing the will of God.
How many people have died not knowing God.
How many people have died not even knowing or hearing about Jesus Christ.
How many people have died ignorantly literally ignorantly sinning.
Now I know all man has a light of Christ and all man has a conscience.
But if you don't have the law if you don't have the gospel if you don't have the commandments.
Right.
You can't be held accountable for those things.
That's why Jesus did what he did so that a righteous judgment might come upon all the
children of men.
So really Scott they demographers you know they estimate probably anywhere between 90
billion to 120 billion people have lived on the planet earth.
So let's say a hundred billion people have lived on the planet earth.
Karen Elton president Nelson the elder Nelson at the time talked about this many years ago
how many billions of people lived on the earth.
Anyway out of those hundred billion how many people have the gospel.
How many people even had the opportunity to have the gospel.
How many people lived and died hearing nothing about the gospel.
So what God no respecter persons not partial he's unchanging loving.
Right how many of those people will after this life and maybe a more ideal setting and
more ideal conditions are going to receive the fullness of the gospel.
And this is why we do temple work so that they can have all of the laws and the ordinances
given to them so they can accept all those things.
It's astounding Scott how much how many temples we have today and how much work is being performed
in them.
I know that in the temple where I serve that there have been now since it's opening only
less than six months ago well it's probably been about six months now.
Open in August was that been about six months.
There have been several hundred thousand ordinances already.
Now when I say ordinances that there's lots of ordinances to perform but if you take all
of the hundreds of thousands of people that have had ordinances performed and you break
all this down there have been thousands and thousands of individuals in our temple in
six months.
Well I wonder how many temples do we have how many thousands of ordinances are performed
every month in the temple.
We have a lot of work to do but the work goes on and it's just going to increase and it's
going to accelerate all those people who died not having the gospel because of the atonement
of Jesus Christ will be unconditionally covered and receive the opportunities that they didn't
have in this life to receive the gospel there.
You know that doctrine come in section seventy six was where Joseph Smith really began to
learn this and he it's taught in the Book of Mormon it's clearly taught in the Book
of Mormon in fact you we just read King Benjamin's address but Jacob Jacob in chapter nine of
second Nephi in this amazing discourse on the atonement I'll just read one verse verse
twenty six Jacob says for the atonement satisfied the demands of his justice upon all those
who have not the law given to them well think about that he repeats that in other places
and it's taught in several other places in the scriptures but when Joseph Smith received
the doctrine covenants remember when we were in Hiram Ohio at the John Johnson farm where
Joseph Smith received the revelation and he he had this it's called the vision but really
there's like six visions and he sees the father and the son he and Sidney Regnan they see
the father and the son they see the the little bit of the war in heaven and they see Satan
and then they see they see the celestial kingdom and then they see this terrestrial kingdom
and then they see the celestial kingdom they see they see they see outer darkness they
see all of this and this is where he really begins to learn that there is not just a heaven
or a hill that people will be judged with the righteous judgment they'll go where they're
happiest where they desire maybe where they're most comfortable according to their desires
and that was really hard for many members of the church to accept I mean Brigham Young
writes how hard that was for him to accept that was like a revolutionary idea for him
that salvation wasn't just a heaven and a hell to think about the possibility of people
being in a kingdom of glory even in the celestial kingdom anyway there's just no other church
and and it's because we have the fullness of the gospel and it's been restored through
the Book of Mormon and the the scriptures and revelations who are more who believe in
more grace who believe in more mercy who believe more in the not just in the salvation exaltation
but in the numbers of children of heavenly father that will receive salvation exaltation
I mean really it it's a testimony of of our heavenly father's love for us all those who
died so without the law and all those who ignorantly sin who never had the commandments never had
the opportunities will will be saved there's a lot of great things that come out of the
atonement of Jesus Christ but just understanding that really increases should it increases my
gratitude and that for that for that for all those things that you just talked about we
should all be grateful when we have that gratitude as we've talked about so many other times
to when we have that gratitude then our desired follow and to align our will with heavenly
fathers actually increases right along with it Dave yeah for sure you know I have told
the story in previous seasons of our podcast about my my first experience where this became
really important to me was when we were went on my family was invited to adopt a prisoner
and to go to the prison and to participate in the family home evening program and we
went there our first Monday went into a non denominational chapel this is at the old prison
at the point of the mountain and and there we we were introduced to David there the prisoner
who happened to be black and happened to be Muslim but he he felt like this would maybe
help him this would look good on his record and he lots of LDS he's a good guy and they
wanted to invite him so we go into a little room we go into a little room and we after
we have an opening exercise and we introduce ourselves to David and David introduces himself
to us takes his shirt off and shows us his muscles and he built like an upside down pyramid
he was about five eight and probably two twenty and I remember him telling us you know that
he bench pressed over four hundred pounds and you know anyway he was kind of preparing
me told us for the Mr. Utah contest anyway we loved him he was so charismatic and I
remember coming home from that first evening and looking in the rear view mirror at my
children as we drove to our home in Highland Utah and Taylor was crying and I said Taylor
what's wrong and Taylor said I really hate leaving David there felt bad for him and all
of our I looked at all the other kids that were all shaking their heads yes I mean it
was amazing really from the first day how much we we cared for him and loved him and
we always looked forward to going back and spending time with him you know I remember
that first day he was going to tell us why he was in prison and I I said my kids were
really young you know at the time and I said no no no no David it's okay that we don't
need to know why you're here we just want to focus on your your future and enjoy the
present we don't need to talk about the past because I didn't want them to think of him
as a criminal well I had a I had a volunteer card so I could go up and visit him anytime
and I would usually once a month I'd go up and go to church with him I was trying to
convert him so I'd go up and go to church with him once a month and one Sunday I went
up to go to church at the prison and the bishop met me at the door his greatest man I'm so
sweet he met me at the door and he said brother derpy hey David came in to see me this week
and he's been really depressed and he's really afraid that when you find out why he's here
he he really loves your family and he's afraid that when you find out why he's here in prison
that you won't bring your family anymore so he said I think it'd be really good for you
to just kind of listen to David's story and let David tell you why he's here I said yeah
yeah no that's fine I I don't mind knowing why he's here I just don't want any kids to
know well so after after sacrament meeting when everybody else went to Sunday school
bishop let us use his office then we went in and David told me a story and Scott I was
I was like 34 years old but I I had never really imagined I was pretty naive I was pretty protected
as you know and David told me about how he was born to a prostitute in Kansas City never
knew his father and I just remember him telling me about how hard his childhood was and I'll
never forget him saying when I was six my mother forced me into child prostitution and he became
a child prostitute at the age of six and at the age of eight he became a heroin addict
because he began to object to you know doing what his mother was getting paid for him to do I
remember him saying actually my mother made a lot of money off of me and he had this big
dent in his forehead and it was obvious but you know I didn't really think much about it anyway
when he's telling me a story he said do you see this do you see this my forehead I said yeah and
he said well when I was 10 one morning and I was laying in bed and I'd forgotten to take out the
garbage and my mother hit me in the head with a tire iron and crushed my forehead never took me
to a doctor and I thought I was gonna die for several weeks and he said that when I when I
finally healed I decided that I couldn't live there she was gonna kill me so he said I ran away
at the age of 12 he ran away and he lived on the streets the age of 14 he had a gun and he said
this is a quote I don't know why I can never forget this but he said I hated my mother but in some
strange way I loved her and I thought I could help her so I went home I'll never forget that and
then he told me that something happened his mother did something that brought back all his bad
memories from his childhood and and he became enraged and shot his mother and killed her then
he was put into the juvenile delinquent detention programs of the state of Missouri the state of
Missouri took him over and and he was in detention foster home after foster home after foster home
and anyway 18 he he said that he joined the Peace Corps and he ends up in Ogden Utah and gets in
a fight with a man and kills a man at the age of 18 and he's given he's given 10 years to life
and he was 32 I was 34 he was 32 and he'd been in prison since he was 18 so he'd been in prison
for 14 years Scott as I sat there and listened to this story it was it was appalling and it was
shocking to me and I remember thinking wow you know I just I just didn't know how how awful how
terrible how this little this little boy had no no opportunity no shot and and yet I had this profound
feeling of love for him anyway that I I just was overcome with compassion for him and and we
continued to go and then we adopted to finish this story we adopted because of David really because
because he was African-American and his influence in us and our love for him we decided we adopt
a little black boy we'd have the three stillborns and we wanted to have another baby and so we we
went to Philadelphia and adopted this little two month old baby and David knew all about this and
in fact if he wouldn't have approved it we wouldn't have done it but he encouraged it so we we adopted
this little black boy and I'll never forget the the next Monday first Monday of the month when we'd
go to the prison and we had we had Isaac who we just adopted and everybody was fighting over who
was going to carry a man to the prison and show him off to David and I finally said stop it I'm
gonna I'm gonna do that so because they were all fighting over it and so I carried him in David
was there already there in the non-denominational chapel and he I don't know how he'd carry how
he pulled this off but he had starched increased his denim Levi's and his denim shirt his collar
was stiff and he had his top button button and he had his hair slicked back all greased and
slicked back I mean it looked like he was going to his wedding or something and his black
Nike's were polished and man he looked I said wow David you look like a million bucks and he said
well I'm I meet my godchild you know I anyway he always kind of saw Isaac that way and anyway I
said you want to hold him and he said yes so he puts out his massively muscular arms and I put
Isaac in his hands and he kind of rolls him into his into it towards his body he just kind of
rolls him in there I tell Isaac was a little insecure and I said no David David let me let me
show you how to hold him you got hold him like this so I took the baby bag kind of show David
how to hold a baby and then gave him back to David and then something happened and David's eyes
looked into Isaac's eyes and Isaac was looking into at David and and it was so interesting because
you could just see David's countenance fall and David became immediately depressed we had our
little opening exercise we went into a room and David wouldn't talk to us the rest of night didn't
want to hold the baby and didn't want to talk to us the rest of the night and I kept saying David
what's wrong what's wrong we not he just shake his head and put up his hands and shake his head
no he wouldn't he wouldn't say anything well it was awful it turned out to be just awful and my
kids were just confused and upset and I just thought oh man I was I was mad I was actually I
left mad and I stayed mad and the next day I right after I got through teaching all my classes in
seminary I went back to the prison then I went into his house with my volunteer card I went into
his house he was in at the time minimum security after being there 14 years and but I went into
his house and I said I just sat down and by him a little table between us I said David listen I
don't know what happened last night but if every time we come up here you're gonna act like that
then maybe we shouldn't come anymore I was mad because of the effect that it had on my little
kids and I remember him slam it taking his hand and hardly could slam in his hand on a table and
saying it's a little late for that don't you think I said what are you talking about what happened
last night and he said I just have one question for you why didn't God give me a mother and a
family like that speaking of our family why couldn't I have been that baby why couldn't I have been
adopted why couldn't I have been have a mother and a family like that wow that well first of all
that just took all the anger out of me I knew I knew why he was depressed I knew why and it was
touching and humbling and I knew then Scott this is the first time I really came to learn this too
by the way I had never really had the opportunity to even think about this but I knew how to answer
that question I knew the answer to that question and I said to him by the Holy Ghost it was the
Holy Ghost that taught me the answer to that question and then I went back and I found all the
scriptures and the the true points of doctrine that teach it but I knew what to say and I I said
David I don't know why I don't know why God didn't give you a mom or a family like that
but I can tell you this I can promise you this that if you desire it someday you will have a mother
and you will have a family like that and I knew it was true and I told him that it was only through
the Atonement of Jesus Christ that that was possible and he felt it was true and our conversation
after that was about the the power and blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life
I'll never forget that Scott and the effect that that had on me and the effect that that had on
David oh a long story short we continue to visit David there's more to that story and you can
probably hear more about that in previous seasons but we moved to Minnesota and we kind of lost
contact and anyway David David's have been in prison last I read that he had been institutionalized
but somebody told me recently my son I think told me that he had read that maybe that he had gotten
out but I will always I'm all I will always be grateful for the lesson that I learned inside
a prison when I was 34 years old about the power of the Atonement and who it covered
that those individuals who never had the opportunity will receive that opportunity
if it is their desire and if they will be faithful and obedient I know that's true Scott
and there's again there's no other gospel or church in the world that believes that
except the church Jesus Christ Leroy de Saines because of the fullness of the gospel taught in
the scriptures you know Dave there's a little bit of that David and all of us to a degree I think
for sure and I and I you know we we think I I find myself thinking you know well I'm so glad I
don't have to go through those kinds of things and and for the in large part I think that's
probably all about our experience most of our listeners experience for sure but the thing is
though is you know and maybe this is my invitation you know when have we felt that way when have we
felt like David you know why haven't I been blessed and when and then where where do we not see the
blessings that are in front of us and who do we need how do we access those how do we gain that
understanding that's kind of our our hope you know in this podcast and the one that will surely
follow as we talk about the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ but we are every single one of
us affected by the negativity of the fall the fall of Adam and Eve and our own fall as you've
mentioned you know for spiritual and physical and there's so much in our lives whether we're
whether we're covenant keeping members of the church or we're completely out of the church
whether we're facing a what we would call a faith crisis or whether our testimony is solid and sure
there are things in our lives that we absolutely that absolutely necessitate us to embrace the
atonement of Jesus Christ so that we can have the peace in our lives I think that we're looking for
and here it is Dave well the real irony and not contradiction or I don't know what phrase to use
here of that whole story is that little black baby that we carried into prison that day two months
old little did I know that when he would be in his 20s that he would end up back in that same prison
yeah but the other thing is about that little boy is that his story though different that's the
point is not that much different that's the point here was a little black baby born born to a drug
addict right in Philadelphia that we had we adopted who was born with fetal alcoholism
bipolar as burgers yeah all kind of abused going through drug withdrawal in the hospital
abused as a child which the court order had to take the child out of the out of its home
anyway little did I know of how that doctrine yeah that I had learned with David would 20
something years later come back to bless my life and see my own son in prison and know that
he was also covered right now again I'm not saying David or my son or anyone else who goes to prison
is not accountable I'm not the judge but there is no one on this earth who really can offer righteous
judgment Scott they judge people by the law by the law of man and that's good and the law of God
to some extent right we have we have judges bishops and and others who judge us in mortality
but let me again it goes back to I have done all these things king Benjamin said speaking of Christ
Christ did all these things that that there would be a righteous judgment I can't judge
I can't even judge my own son who you know we've raised he'll be he'll be 33 years old tomorrow
well not tomorrow this next month and I can't judge him but I know the atonement covers him
and that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ that he will receive a merciful fair equitable
loving righteous judgment I see people we all see people on the news who we who we rush so quickly
to judgment and we judge them and we write them off right another story I'll tell on our next
podcast well how many people we write off we can't judge them you can't even judge your own family
you can't even judge your own spouse no you can't and we think we know but we don't you know and
that's the point you know so often too and I and I know that there's a lot of us probably listening
to this because this is just the way we're programmed I and I really believe that word
programmed to think that you know because I'm in the church I'm held more accountable there's
some truth to that there is some truth if you have the law you're more where there's more light
more is expected there's there is some much given much required however these things apply to us too
as members as covenant members covenant keeping keeping members of the church we have to see
that the Lord will extend according to his mercies a fair judgment and again that a righteous
judgment might come up on the children of men that righteous judgment can only be handed by him
and and we need to remember that is this is not just for those in the extremities these are for
those also who feel like we are in the middle of the safe ship Zion as zelder ballard put it right
so absolutely anyway I think my favorite quote in preach my gospel scott on page 52 all that is in
unfair about life can be made right through the atonement of Jesus Christ you know it was
interesting that when my son Isaac was in prison and I was helping elder Anderson write write his
book the divine gift of forgiveness elder Anderson wanted to go to the prison to meet Isaac
and so he had called me up and said if I make arrangements will you meet me there sunday morning
at seven and and then he confirmed that that he had made arrangements and we went to the prison
I met him there the parking lot walked in with the the prison with elder Anderson and with the
bishop of Isaac's little ward unit and prison and after meeting about 80 prisoners elder Anderson
talked to them and offered you know his love and his spoke about the mercy and grace of Christ and
then he asked them if they had any questions I'll never forget that one prisoner on the isles
about in the middle of the group who raised his hand then I'll never forget him with some
despondency saying really elder Anderson really what hope is there for some of us because some
of us have lost everything and I'll never forget elder Anderson who does not get too emotional or
worse and he he doesn't get sensational about anything but I'll never forget him becoming
quite animated you know coming up almost on his toes and his voice raising raising his voice
then proclaiming and he bore testimony powerful testimony of the atonement of Jesus Christ and
he said there is nothing because of the atonement of Jesus Christ there is nothing that you have
lost permanently that cannot be restored to you nothing man I remember thinking about that thing
and wow nothing well that I later read that the prophet Joseph Smith thought top that as well
now now I know that some of those men had been divorced and lost their wives and
maybe children and maybe maybe some relationships had been lost which could not be
really fully restored because of the agency of others but there was nothing that those men
had lost permanently if they so desired it including including a eternal companion in the family
if they repented and that through the power the point is that through the power the gift
the grace the mercy of Jesus Christ that anything or everything can be restored to us
that that's that's the point Scott of the the message of the the effects of the atonement
of Jesus Christ in our lives as we approach this week and all that is in front of us I hope that
the things that we've talked about today will kind of echo in our minds and in our souls and
remind us of our great worth such great worth that even a god died for us Jesus Christ grateful to
know that look forward to being with you again next week and until then be well