1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:21,640 Hey there everybody and welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood, Scott 2 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:24,120 Durfey here and David Durfey here. 3 00:00:24,120 --> 00:00:25,120 Hi Dave. 4 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:26,120 Hey Scott. 5 00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:28,360 Excited to be here today. 6 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:29,360 Excited about our topic. 7 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:31,080 Yeah, me too. 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:35,600 We've been through several weeks as we've talked about the events of the Atonement of 9 00:00:35,600 --> 00:00:42,120 Jesus Christ and if you're just joining us, I invite you to go back and listen to those. 10 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:47,280 Now today and going forward for the next probably several weeks, we'll be talking about the 11 00:00:47,280 --> 00:00:51,480 effects of the Atonement of Jesus Christ, where they come into our lives, where the 12 00:00:51,480 --> 00:00:57,600 blessings are available to us, how we access those and many, many, many other things. 13 00:00:57,600 --> 00:01:00,200 So we're looking forward to that too. 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,640 Well my experience with this, Scott, and I just remind everybody this is based on a 15 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:14,520 course that I helped to design and we taught for many years at Utah Valley University Institute 16 00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:22,760 and then Elder Anderson wrote a book which I assisted him on covering this topic about 17 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:28,800 how to access the Atonement of Jesus Christ and for the last several weeks now we've talked 18 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:36,560 about kind of the historicity or the historical events, right, of the Atonement of Jesus Christ 19 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:46,280 and my experience Scott, as I witness students coming to my class was that that was very, 20 00:01:46,280 --> 00:01:53,160 very, very humbling, if they really came to understand the events of the Atonement, it 21 00:01:53,160 --> 00:02:03,880 really, really humbled them and based upon our reading of Alma 32, when Alma says the 22 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:10,040 word had a more powerful effect upon the mind of the people than the sword or anything else, 23 00:02:10,040 --> 00:02:17,440 I really witnessed that when people understand the Atonement, the events, the actual carrying 24 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:28,040 out and what Jesus sacrificed, it humbled them and in Alma 32 Alma tells the people, 25 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:33,160 hey, it's good that you've been compelled to be humble, kind of hit the rock bottom 26 00:02:33,160 --> 00:02:37,840 when they were cast out of their homes and their synagogues and you know here are all 27 00:02:37,840 --> 00:02:43,840 these poor people who show up on the hill called O'Nita and Alma tells them, hey, it's 28 00:02:43,840 --> 00:02:49,680 good that you're compelled to be humble, but it would have been better and it's always 29 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:58,920 more powerful if you would have been humbled by the power of the word and when we talk 30 00:02:58,920 --> 00:03:04,320 about the events of the Atonement Scott, I think that's the word he was talking about. 31 00:03:04,320 --> 00:03:09,600 I think the word he's talking about and he actually clarifies this in Alma 33, this 32 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:16,400 is the word, this is the word that you should plant in your hearts, which would again have 33 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,400 a more powerful effect upon the minds of the people in the sword or anything else and would 34 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,680 humble them more than anything else. 35 00:03:22,680 --> 00:03:25,920 That's you want to, you're there, you're looking at it. 36 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:33,000 It's Alma 33, like verse 22 or 23 second to the last verse in the chapter. 37 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:38,440 I'm going to start with verse 21, oh my brethren, if you could be healed by merely casting about 38 00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:43,600 your eyes that you might be healed, would you not be healed quickly or would you rather 39 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:49,680 harden your hearts in unbelief and be slothful that you would not cast about your eyes that 40 00:03:49,680 --> 00:03:51,560 you may, that you might perish? 41 00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:59,040 So look, just look to that brazen serpent, you know, look up, look to the Savior and 42 00:03:59,040 --> 00:04:03,400 you'll be healed, which has become the universal symbol for medical healing. 43 00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:04,400 Right. 44 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:09,640 Sciences is that brazen serpent on a pole, but it's the next verse. 45 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:16,120 If so, woe shall come unto you, but if not so, then cast about your eyes and begin to 46 00:04:16,120 --> 00:04:22,160 believe in the Son of God, that he will come to redeem his people and that he shall suffer 47 00:04:22,160 --> 00:04:26,960 and die to atone for their sins, and that he shall rise again from the dead, which shall 48 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:32,560 bring to pass the resurrection, that all men shall stand before him to be judged at the 49 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,160 last and judgment day according to their works. 50 00:04:36,160 --> 00:04:38,480 And then he says, this is the word. 51 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,880 And now, my brethren, I desire that you should plant this word. 52 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:43,400 This word. 53 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:44,960 In your hearts. 54 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:45,960 What word? 55 00:04:45,960 --> 00:04:51,960 That Jesus Christ and him crucified, that Jesus Christ suffered, that he atoned, that 56 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,720 he died, was resurrected for us. 57 00:04:56,720 --> 00:05:03,280 If you'll just plant the atonement, the events of the atonement in your word, there is nothing 58 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:08,080 that will be more humbling than that. 59 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:13,960 So I witnessed that as I as I taught this course, Scott, that if people would just really 60 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:20,120 study, understand, receive a witness of the Holy Ghost, of course, that Jesus really did 61 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,880 these things, it would humble them. 62 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:29,840 It would give them a broken heart and a contrite spirit, not only knowing what he did, but 63 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:34,680 who he did it for, and how our sins caused it. 64 00:05:34,680 --> 00:05:40,120 If people just understand that basic, those basic ideas and doctrine. 65 00:05:40,120 --> 00:05:42,800 Wow, it is so humbling. 66 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:50,280 And once the people are humble by the power of the word, then they are ready to learn 67 00:05:50,280 --> 00:05:58,520 the doctrine of the effects, the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life. 68 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:05,120 And my experience, so we've spent maybe four weeks on the events of the atonement, and 69 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:10,520 we're going to spend two or three weeks on the effects of the atonement. 70 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:16,480 And what happens is, once my students really learn, once they really felt it in their hearts, 71 00:06:16,480 --> 00:06:20,520 what Jesus had done for them, they were, were humble and their hearts were broken, their 72 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:21,520 spirits contrite. 73 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:26,280 And then you begin to speak about the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ and what 74 00:06:26,280 --> 00:06:34,040 it covers and how we're all affected by it, effected and affected by it. 75 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,680 Then you become filled with gratitude. 76 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:43,640 And it is the gratitude that becomes the most powerful motivation to keep the commandments 77 00:06:43,640 --> 00:06:50,120 and to repent and to keep us on the straight and narrow path and to hold to the iron rod 78 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:57,040 and to partake over and over and over again to go fall down at the tree and partake of 79 00:06:57,040 --> 00:06:59,880 the fruit over and over again. 80 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:06,160 So anyway, in teaching the course, it was, it was so, and it affected me as well. 81 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:11,920 Scott, I, the teacher always gets more than the student, but what, but what we hope our 82 00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:20,680 listeners will feel is understand the events which will humble you, break our hearts, soften 83 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:27,600 our hearts, make us ready to understand the doctrine of the effects of the atonement. 84 00:07:27,600 --> 00:07:32,880 And when we understand the effects, we will be filled with such gratitude, such hope that 85 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:41,640 it will encourage us, give us the, the power that we need to continue on the path. 86 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:47,640 And this is, this is true, Scott, not only for active members of the church. 87 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:50,520 This is true for those who have left the church. 88 00:07:50,520 --> 00:07:59,000 I had many students who were in a, in a crisis of faith who, some of them who came in very 89 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:03,560 skeptical and yet they had a friend who said, well, we're not talking about the church. 90 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,680 We're just talking about the gospel. 91 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:12,040 And they would come to a class and honestly, it's, it's not about the church. 92 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,080 This course is not about the church. 93 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:21,360 Now it just so happens that these doctrines are largely the result of the restoration 94 00:08:21,360 --> 00:08:29,280 of the fullness of the gospel of Jesus Christ, which came about because of, of restoration 95 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:35,600 scripture and because of profits and, and I bear testimony of that, but this is not 96 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:37,280 about the church. 97 00:08:37,280 --> 00:08:40,120 This is about understanding the doctrine. 98 00:08:40,120 --> 00:08:46,000 And I think the statement of President Packer when he says true doctrine understood changes 99 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,800 attitudes and behaviors. 100 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:48,800 Wow. 101 00:08:48,800 --> 00:08:51,320 And the study of attitudes and behaviors. 102 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:55,480 This is the prime example of that. 103 00:08:55,480 --> 00:09:02,280 I'm telling you, if you want to understand the events and then follows up the study and 104 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:09,760 understands the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ, they will not only be humbled, 105 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,640 but they'll be filled with gratitude. 106 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:18,680 And we read this early on, but I, one of my favorite quotes, which I know is true from 107 00:09:18,680 --> 00:09:25,920 Elder Richard G Scott is pondering the grandeur of the atonement evokes the most profound feelings 108 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:31,640 of awe, immense gratitude and deep humility. 109 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:33,320 And is that ever the truth? 110 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:36,440 I would probably go the other order. 111 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:42,440 I think it fills us with deep humility, immense gratitude and awe. 112 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:49,920 Then he says, those impressions can provide you powerful motivation to keep his commandments 113 00:09:49,920 --> 00:09:57,760 and consistently, we would even say now, daily repent of errors for greater peace and happiness. 114 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:07,760 So I hope that as we start into this kind of new section of the course that our listeners 115 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:14,200 will be filled with with gratitude as they understand all that the atonement of Jesus 116 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,200 Christ covers. 117 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:24,680 And we, we are just so blessed to have these truths that have been restored. 118 00:10:24,680 --> 00:10:26,640 So let's jump into it. 119 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:30,640 Scott the, the, the effects of the atonement. 120 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:35,480 So again, if one really wants to understand and appreciate the atonement, they have to 121 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:43,720 understand and appreciate the fall and the two major negatives of the fall, which are 122 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:49,800 spiritual death cut off from the presence of God and physical death that we're all going 123 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:53,640 to die and our spirits will leave our body. 124 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,680 So, so spiritual death is something that we're all going to experience. 125 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:01,800 We are not in the presence of God. 126 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:06,840 Even when we have the Holy Ghost with us, we have a member of the Godhead with us, which 127 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:13,400 helps us to be what we would call being born again, spiritually speaking. 128 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:22,320 But we're still in a sinful, fallen world and every day sin in some form or another 129 00:11:22,320 --> 00:11:27,040 Scott, whether personal or otherwise, sin in this world affects us. 130 00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:34,480 We're all tainted or affected by sin every day and we live in a, in a fallen, spiritually 131 00:11:34,480 --> 00:11:36,480 lost world. 132 00:11:36,480 --> 00:11:42,520 And there's a benedict and amulet and an Alma and Lehi and all the prophets of the Book 133 00:11:42,520 --> 00:11:50,200 of Mormon and Paul himself and Corinthians, you know, that we all die spiritually speaking 134 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:53,400 because of the fall of Adam and Eve. 135 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:54,400 We're all lost. 136 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:55,400 We're all carnal. 137 00:11:55,400 --> 00:12:00,160 We're all sensual devilish and and we feel it. 138 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:08,080 We're all, we're all natural man and and every day I feel it, whether it's some physical 139 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,920 challenge or some spiritual temptation or or mistake or weakness. 140 00:12:13,920 --> 00:12:21,360 Anyway, spiritual death is real and let's maybe start with how the atonement of Jesus 141 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,920 Christ unconditionally. 142 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:28,040 So when we speak about the atonement, Scott, there's, there's the two negative effects 143 00:12:28,040 --> 00:12:32,600 of the fall, spiritual, physical, right death. 144 00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:37,760 And there's two major positives of the atonement. 145 00:12:37,760 --> 00:12:40,160 Try, people can kind of see it. 146 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:41,400 See a graph of this. 147 00:12:41,400 --> 00:12:45,800 We have one here on, on our screen that we're looking at. 148 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:52,200 And if people could try to visualize this, that there are two major positives of the 149 00:12:52,200 --> 00:13:00,120 atonement, which is unconditionally the atonement unconditionally overcomes the fall of Adam 150 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:01,120 and Eve. 151 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,400 We're going to talk about all those today. 152 00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,520 We're going to start talking about those today. 153 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:15,360 And it conditionally overcomes our personal fall of you and me through our faith and obedience. 154 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:23,240 So the two major positives of the atonement of Jesus Christ are the unconditional effects 155 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:30,560 and the conditional effects or some Pratt talked about that in a whole kind of discourse. 156 00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,360 And I won't take time to read, read, read that quote. 157 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:38,120 It's one of my favorite quotes and Brother Matthews picked up on that Brother Matthews 158 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:44,120 who wrote the Bible dictionary and, you know, so helpful to my understanding of this, these 159 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:53,200 points of doctrine, you know, we don't spend enough time really in the church talking about 160 00:13:53,200 --> 00:14:00,080 the unconditional effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ. 161 00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:05,640 Unconditional Scott and most of the effects of the atonement are unconditional. 162 00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:14,120 Heavenly Father has unconditionally saved most of his children. 163 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:16,160 That's quite a statement to make, but I'm going to make it. 164 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:20,080 I believe most of Heavenly Father's children being the celestial kingdom. 165 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:25,000 And I'm sure there's many listeners right now with their mouths wide open that I said 166 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:26,000 that. 167 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:31,600 But the reason I say that is because just 200 years ago and people can look this up, 168 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:35,880 the infant mortality rate was 50%. 169 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:44,600 Well, nobody understands the salvation, really exaltation of children like we do. 170 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:46,960 And where did we learn it? 171 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,680 We learned it in the Book of Mormon. 172 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:54,080 And then it was taught, of course, in the Doctrine and Covenants section 29 and other, other, 173 00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,200 many other places, the salvation of children. 174 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:04,280 But Heavenly Father Scott has saved most of his children because of the salvation of 175 00:15:04,280 --> 00:15:07,520 children. 176 00:15:07,520 --> 00:15:09,960 I think that is just so hopeful. 177 00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:18,280 So one of the real, maybe my favorite point of doctrine that has come about through the 178 00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:20,400 restoration. 179 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:30,600 And so this is, this is point number one, that the Atonement of Jesus Christ unconditionally 180 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:40,480 covers all children because they are innocent and alive in Christ as Mormon taught his son 181 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,000 Moroni in the church in the Book of Mormon. 182 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:44,920 Why don't we turn there, Scott? 183 00:15:44,920 --> 00:15:50,000 And while you're turning there, I'm just going to tell this quick story that I've told many 184 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:56,840 times, but for many years I taught at the Missionary Training Center after my mission. 185 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,120 It wasn't even the Missionary Training Center. 186 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:02,760 It was the mission home up in Salt Lake City before there was an MTC. 187 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,880 And I had a companion up there by the name of Elder Hansen. 188 00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:07,600 And Elder Hansen would share this story. 189 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:11,160 Every Tuesday morning I'd go up to Salt Lake and teach missionaries. 190 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:15,120 It was, I treasured that opportunity. 191 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:22,000 I was actually called by President Monson to do that and it was when he was an apostle, 192 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:27,160 of course, but he was over the missionaries and sent me a letter. 193 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:31,160 I was recommended and he sent me a letter and made it official. 194 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:35,800 And I'd go up there every Tuesday and Elder Hansen for a long time was one of my companions 195 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,320 and we would teach the missionaries. 196 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:41,040 And Elder Hansen would share this story. 197 00:16:41,040 --> 00:16:45,160 He was on a mission in Canada and it was near the end of the day. 198 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,320 He was fairly new missionary. 199 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,760 And it was getting dark and they were starting to go back to their apartment. 200 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:55,240 There was this little white cottage down the lane and they felt impressed that they should 201 00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:58,280 go knock on this cottage. 202 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:04,040 Then they knocked on the door and Elder Hansen would always say, this never happened to me 203 00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:07,000 before and it never happened to me again. 204 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:14,080 But I heard a voice and the voice told me, read Moroni 8, 10 through 12. 205 00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:18,800 Then he said, I didn't even know what Moroni 8, 10 through 12 said, but I unzipped my scripture 206 00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,440 covers, which we used to have in those days. 207 00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:27,880 And I was trying to find Moroni 8, 10 through 12 when a young woman answered the door. 208 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:35,240 And I just said to her, ma'am, I have a scripture to read to you. 209 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:39,480 Because he found it just as he began to speak. 210 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:44,600 And he started to read Moroni 8, 10 through 12, which says, Behold, I say unto you that 211 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:50,720 this thing shall ye teach repentance and baptism unto those who are accountable and capable 212 00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:52,120 of committing sin. 213 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:57,680 Ye teach parents they must repent and be baptized and humble themselves as their little children. 214 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,280 And they shall all be saved with their little children. 215 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:06,920 And their little children need no repentance, neither baptism, behold, baptism is unto repentance 216 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,440 to the fulfilling of the commandments unto the remission of sins. 217 00:18:11,440 --> 00:18:16,240 But little children are alive in Christ, even from the foundation of the world, if not so. 218 00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:21,960 God is a partial God and also a changeable God and a respecter of persons for how many 219 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:25,160 little children have died without baptism. 220 00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:31,480 Wow, there's just so much in that passage. 221 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:38,840 I read the scripture and I looked up and tears were streaming down her cheeks. 222 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:41,120 And she said, Who told you? 223 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:43,680 Who are you and who told you? 224 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:48,640 And he said, Ma'am, we're missionaries for the Church of Jesus Christ, Latter-day Saints. 225 00:18:48,640 --> 00:18:50,120 Nobody told us anything. 226 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:53,640 The Lord has sent us here. 227 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:59,720 And she told them that the experience that she had just gone through that two weeks ago, 228 00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:05,480 she'd given birth to her first child, little boys, I remember, and that that child had 229 00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:10,440 died a few hours after birth, which was devastating to her. 230 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:17,600 And she was a good Catholic and she went to her priest and and her priest told her, and 231 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:22,200 I'm sure he did it in the kindest, most loving way he possibly could. 232 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:28,040 But her priest told her that because her child had died without baptism, that her child was 233 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:30,760 in purgatory. 234 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:35,720 And she said, I knew that couldn't be true. 235 00:19:35,720 --> 00:19:41,800 And I've been praying for two weeks for God to send somebody to me to tell me where my 236 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,040 little know where my little child is where my baby is. 237 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:46,040 Sweet. 238 00:19:46,040 --> 00:19:49,000 Now, the Catholic Church, to be fair, has softened their position on that. 239 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,760 That was in that was back in the early 1970s. 240 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,480 And they've changed about 25 years ago. 241 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:59,760 They have they've kind of softened that that doctrine in their church. 242 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:05,720 But but but they still don't know anything about the salvation of children and no other 243 00:20:05,720 --> 00:20:11,600 church, Christian church or religion does know anything about the salvation of little 244 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:12,720 children. 245 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:21,800 We know that because Christ and his Atonement, that little children are alive in Christ. 246 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:27,000 I am so grateful, Scott, for that, for that doctrine. 247 00:20:27,000 --> 00:20:33,600 And you just think about the love of God for his children and how many children have died 248 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,960 before baptism, as Mormon asks in that scripture. 249 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:43,880 So I have some other thoughts about that, but I'm doing any or your thoughts. 250 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:48,280 Well, I do have thoughts, but I want to most of my thoughts are going to be when we get 251 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:53,960 into after we've also talked about the physical death, you know, and what comes as a part 252 00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:54,960 of that. 253 00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:00,360 But when we talk about spiritual and physical death, David, and I'll get and I'll talk 254 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,920 more about this when we get to that point. 255 00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:08,160 But there are literally I don't I and I've challenged, you know, so Deb and I, my wife 256 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:13,560 and I teach Institute as a calling for a stake at BYU currently and have done for the last 257 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:14,880 four years now. 258 00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:21,000 And when we talk about this, you know, we've taken the spiritual and physical death and 259 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:27,000 when we examine our lives and the challenges that come to us from in our lives, any challenge, 260 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:33,240 I think that I could categorically put into physical or spiritual death problem, right? 261 00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:34,240 True. 262 00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:39,800 Any problem that I have, literally anything that's going on in my life that is not that 263 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:46,400 is that is upsetting the apple that the apple card of peace or the apple card of contentment 264 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:47,400 or whatever. 265 00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:48,840 I'm sure that's right. 266 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,000 Any problem I have, I think I can categorically put it into one of those. 267 00:21:53,000 --> 00:21:57,600 And so I want to talk more about that when we get to the physical death date, because 268 00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,240 there's a lot especially because of my background, because of my experience, especially in recovery 269 00:22:02,240 --> 00:22:03,920 rooms, etc. 270 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,280 That you know, I want to address, but I'm going to hold on those. 271 00:22:07,280 --> 00:22:13,760 The thing I want to I want to really emphasize is something that you've talked about is the 272 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:21,380 as part of the unconditional blessings that come to us as because of the Atonement of 273 00:22:21,380 --> 00:22:22,800 Jesus Christ. 274 00:22:22,800 --> 00:22:25,160 Let's go ahead and continue and then I'll pop in more. 275 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:29,880 Well, this this this one about children is is personal with me because even though there 276 00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:37,400 is no official doctrine, Scott, in the church, there's been no revelation or official policy 277 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:43,240 on what we know or understand or believe about stillborn children. 278 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,560 But my wife has delivered three stillborns. 279 00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:55,000 And so this doctrine gets really personal with me and we have named those children. 280 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:59,120 We believe all those children needed was a body. 281 00:22:59,120 --> 00:23:04,560 They were they were delivered in the in the final trimester, these little one two pound 282 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:14,080 babies that she had to go through labor to deliver and buried on top of her actually 283 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:19,640 dad's grave in the in little teeny caskets. 284 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:28,240 I I personally know Scott that I have three little boys that I will see in the resurrection 285 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:35,480 and that all they needed was a body and and they're they're saved. 286 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:40,480 So this becomes this becomes personal for me and I always get emotional. 287 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:47,000 Well not always, but almost always I get emotional in the in the temple when I'm performing ceilings 288 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,760 and people will bring their names, right? 289 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:54,200 Couples to be sealed to each other's husband and wife, and then they'll bring names of 290 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,120 children to be sealed to parents. 291 00:23:56,120 --> 00:24:02,600 And every time I get a card and on the card it lists where they were which temple they 292 00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:08,760 were baptized in which temple they were confirmed in and there's a date and a temple and we're 293 00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:17,040 doing the last ordinance for a child that we can perform for them which is to seal them 294 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:18,760 to their parents. 295 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:28,640 But children who die before the age of eight on the card it says baptism not needed confirmation 296 00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:41,960 not needed initiatory not needed endowment not needed and I just go oh man this is one 297 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:52,800 of the greatest doctrines of the restoration is that we know that little children are unconditionally 298 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,160 saved in heaven. 299 00:24:55,160 --> 00:25:00,840 Now in order to go the highest degree of the social kingdom they will have the opportunity 300 00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,280 and will have to choose to be married. 301 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:10,640 They'll have every opportunity to do that and I can't imagine any of them who won't. 302 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:19,160 But I just think it is such a glorious principle for us to rejoice and to be grateful for that 303 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,720 most of the heavenly fathers children. 304 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:28,760 Just based on this doctrine alone half of them are in heaven and there will be many 305 00:25:28,760 --> 00:25:33,720 more who never had the opportunity in this life who will choose and that becomes another 306 00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:38,640 right that becomes another unconditional effect of the atonement of Jesus Christ is that those 307 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:44,720 who didn't who didn't have the law that they're they're they're covered as well so we're going 308 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:50,120 into another point here we'll leave children for a minute and let's talk about all those 309 00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:52,240 who died without the law. 310 00:25:52,240 --> 00:25:59,280 So let's let's let's just go Scott to Mosiah chapter three again this is taught in the 311 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:03,440 Book of Mormon I don't think anybody else understands this or so many Christians who 312 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:09,200 believe that if you die before you confess Jesus or before your baptize you're going 313 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:11,040 to go to hell. 314 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:21,200 Well we we completely reject that that is not the kind loving God that we that we believe 315 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:28,520 in that the atonement of Jesus Christ covers all of God's children according to their choices 316 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:36,320 and accountability for sure but also according to their conditions and their circumstances 317 00:26:36,320 --> 00:26:42,080 and what they knew and what they didn't know there's just so many other the context and 318 00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:44,840 circumstances anyway. 319 00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:51,120 Let's let's read Mosiah chapter three starting with verse seven Scott and lo he shall suffer 320 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:56,320 temptations and pain of body hunger thirst and fatigue even more than man can suffer 321 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:02,200 except it be unto death for behold blood cometh from every poor so great shall be his anguish 322 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:07,240 for the wickedness and abominations of his people and he shall be called Jesus Christ 323 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:12,440 the Son of God the Father of heaven and earth the Creator of all things from the beginning 324 00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:18,840 and his mother shall be called called Mary and lo he cometh unto his own that salvation 325 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:26,320 might come unto the children of men even through faith on his name and even after all this 326 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:32,480 they shall conquer they shall consider him a man and shall say he hath a devil and shall 327 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,200 scourge him and shall crucify him. 328 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:43,920 And so verse nine again and lo he cometh unto his own that salvation might come unto the 329 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,240 children of men even through faith on his name and even after all this they shall consider 330 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,160 him a man and shall say he hath a devil. 331 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:57,560 Okay and ten and eleven eleven's key verse and he shall rise on the third day from the 332 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:03,320 dead and behold he standeth to judge the world and behold all these things are done that 333 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:10,280 a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men. 334 00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:17,600 That a righteous judgment might come upon the children of men all of God's children. 335 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:20,000 That's why these things were done. 336 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:22,160 Here is why he did it. 337 00:28:22,160 --> 00:28:25,160 Here is why Christ carried out the atonement. 338 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:30,160 Here's why the Father sacrificed his only begotten Son. 339 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,000 That a righteous judgment. 340 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:36,080 I used to always ask my students so what's a righteous judgment. 341 00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,440 Give me another word for righteous a blank judgment. 342 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,720 They would say loving. 343 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,080 I'd say good that's good. 344 00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:44,560 A loving judgment. 345 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,760 But the one that I would stand out the most they would always say you know these are young 346 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:51,800 adults and they're all about this. 347 00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,640 They would say a fair judgment. 348 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:57,560 It would be fair. 349 00:28:57,560 --> 00:29:00,680 I would say it would be equitable. 350 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:01,680 Right? 351 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:12,600 It's this is this is the judgment that the atonement allows God to make a fair kind loving judgment. 352 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,280 And verse eleven. 353 00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:20,080 For behold and also his blood atoneth for the sins of those who have fallen by the transgression 354 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:26,560 of Adam who have died not knowing the will of God concerning them or who have ignorantly 355 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,060 sinned. 356 00:29:28,060 --> 00:29:29,320 Or who have ignorantly sinned. 357 00:29:29,320 --> 00:29:30,320 Right. 358 00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:31,800 Who have ignorantly sinned. 359 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:33,760 How many people have died not knowing the will of God. 360 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:35,720 How many people have died not knowing God. 361 00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:39,320 How many people have died not even knowing or hearing about Jesus Christ. 362 00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:45,120 How many people have died ignorantly literally ignorantly sinning. 363 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,600 Now I know all man has a light of Christ and all man has a conscience. 364 00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:54,520 But if you don't have the law if you don't have the gospel if you don't have the commandments. 365 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,240 Right. 366 00:29:57,240 --> 00:30:00,960 You can't be held accountable for those things. 367 00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:10,040 That's why Jesus did what he did so that a righteous judgment might come upon all the 368 00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:11,680 children of men. 369 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:20,320 So really Scott they demographers you know they estimate probably anywhere between 90 370 00:30:20,320 --> 00:30:26,120 billion to 120 billion people have lived on the planet earth. 371 00:30:26,120 --> 00:30:30,080 So let's say a hundred billion people have lived on the planet earth. 372 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:35,440 Karen Elton president Nelson the elder Nelson at the time talked about this many years ago 373 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,400 how many billions of people lived on the earth. 374 00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:47,320 Anyway out of those hundred billion how many people have the gospel. 375 00:30:47,320 --> 00:30:51,840 How many people even had the opportunity to have the gospel. 376 00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:59,080 How many people lived and died hearing nothing about the gospel. 377 00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:08,480 So what God no respecter persons not partial he's unchanging loving. 378 00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:16,560 Right how many of those people will after this life and maybe a more ideal setting and 379 00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:23,000 more ideal conditions are going to receive the fullness of the gospel. 380 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:29,480 And this is why we do temple work so that they can have all of the laws and the ordinances 381 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:34,640 given to them so they can accept all those things. 382 00:31:34,640 --> 00:31:40,760 It's astounding Scott how much how many temples we have today and how much work is being performed 383 00:31:40,760 --> 00:31:43,720 in them. 384 00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:51,960 I know that in the temple where I serve that there have been now since it's opening only 385 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:56,120 less than six months ago well it's probably been about six months now. 386 00:31:56,120 --> 00:32:00,640 Open in August was that been about six months. 387 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:07,880 There have been several hundred thousand ordinances already. 388 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:14,720 Now when I say ordinances that there's lots of ordinances to perform but if you take all 389 00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:18,880 of the hundreds of thousands of people that have had ordinances performed and you break 390 00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:24,680 all this down there have been thousands and thousands of individuals in our temple in 391 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,160 six months. 392 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:33,440 Well I wonder how many temples do we have how many thousands of ordinances are performed 393 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,240 every month in the temple. 394 00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:40,600 We have a lot of work to do but the work goes on and it's just going to increase and it's 395 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:48,160 going to accelerate all those people who died not having the gospel because of the atonement 396 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:55,680 of Jesus Christ will be unconditionally covered and receive the opportunities that they didn't 397 00:32:55,680 --> 00:32:59,240 have in this life to receive the gospel there. 398 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:03,160 You know that doctrine come in section seventy six was where Joseph Smith really began to 399 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:08,400 learn this and he it's taught in the Book of Mormon it's clearly taught in the Book 400 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:16,280 of Mormon in fact you we just read King Benjamin's address but Jacob Jacob in chapter nine of 401 00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:21,840 second Nephi in this amazing discourse on the atonement I'll just read one verse verse 402 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:31,400 twenty six Jacob says for the atonement satisfied the demands of his justice upon all those 403 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:38,640 who have not the law given to them well think about that he repeats that in other places 404 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,560 and it's taught in several other places in the scriptures but when Joseph Smith received 405 00:33:43,560 --> 00:33:49,120 the doctrine covenants remember when we were in Hiram Ohio at the John Johnson farm where 406 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:54,440 Joseph Smith received the revelation and he he had this it's called the vision but really 407 00:33:54,440 --> 00:34:00,720 there's like six visions and he sees the father and the son he and Sidney Regnan they see 408 00:34:00,720 --> 00:34:06,480 the father and the son they see the the little bit of the war in heaven and they see Satan 409 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:12,320 and then they see they see the celestial kingdom and then they see this terrestrial kingdom 410 00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:15,840 and then they see the celestial kingdom they see they see they see outer darkness they 411 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:22,040 see all of this and this is where he really begins to learn that there is not just a heaven 412 00:34:22,040 --> 00:34:27,520 or a hill that people will be judged with the righteous judgment they'll go where they're 413 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:34,720 happiest where they desire maybe where they're most comfortable according to their desires 414 00:34:34,720 --> 00:34:40,000 and that was really hard for many members of the church to accept I mean Brigham Young 415 00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:46,960 writes how hard that was for him to accept that was like a revolutionary idea for him 416 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:57,360 that salvation wasn't just a heaven and a hell to think about the possibility of people 417 00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:08,120 being in a kingdom of glory even in the celestial kingdom anyway there's just no other church 418 00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:12,600 and and it's because we have the fullness of the gospel and it's been restored through 419 00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:18,920 the Book of Mormon and the the scriptures and revelations who are more who believe in 420 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:27,840 more grace who believe in more mercy who believe more in the not just in the salvation exaltation 421 00:35:27,840 --> 00:35:34,680 but in the numbers of children of heavenly father that will receive salvation exaltation 422 00:35:34,680 --> 00:35:41,800 I mean really it it's a testimony of of our heavenly father's love for us all those who 423 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:49,560 died so without the law and all those who ignorantly sin who never had the commandments never had 424 00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:55,440 the opportunities will will be saved there's a lot of great things that come out of the 425 00:35:55,440 --> 00:36:01,080 atonement of Jesus Christ but just understanding that really increases should it increases my 426 00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:06,400 gratitude and that for that for that for all those things that you just talked about we 427 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:10,800 should all be grateful when we have that gratitude as we've talked about so many other times 428 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:16,280 to when we have that gratitude then our desired follow and to align our will with heavenly 429 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:21,520 fathers actually increases right along with it Dave yeah for sure you know I have told 430 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:29,000 the story in previous seasons of our podcast about my my first experience where this became 431 00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:38,280 really important to me was when we were went on my family was invited to adopt a prisoner 432 00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:44,160 and to go to the prison and to participate in the family home evening program and we 433 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:51,280 went there our first Monday went into a non denominational chapel this is at the old prison 434 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:59,280 at the point of the mountain and and there we we were introduced to David there the prisoner 435 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:05,240 who happened to be black and happened to be Muslim but he he felt like this would maybe 436 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:11,120 help him this would look good on his record and he lots of LDS he's a good guy and they 437 00:37:11,120 --> 00:37:17,960 wanted to invite him so we go into a little room we go into a little room and we after 438 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:24,240 we have an opening exercise and we introduce ourselves to David and David introduces himself 439 00:37:24,240 --> 00:37:31,520 to us takes his shirt off and shows us his muscles and he built like an upside down pyramid 440 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:38,920 he was about five eight and probably two twenty and I remember him telling us you know that 441 00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:44,960 he bench pressed over four hundred pounds and you know anyway he was kind of preparing 442 00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:53,040 me told us for the Mr. Utah contest anyway we loved him he was so charismatic and I 443 00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,920 remember coming home from that first evening and looking in the rear view mirror at my 444 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:05,360 children as we drove to our home in Highland Utah and Taylor was crying and I said Taylor 445 00:38:05,360 --> 00:38:15,880 what's wrong and Taylor said I really hate leaving David there felt bad for him and all 446 00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:20,600 of our I looked at all the other kids that were all shaking their heads yes I mean it 447 00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:28,000 was amazing really from the first day how much we we cared for him and loved him and 448 00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:33,600 we always looked forward to going back and spending time with him you know I remember 449 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:38,320 that first day he was going to tell us why he was in prison and I I said my kids were 450 00:38:38,320 --> 00:38:42,480 really young you know at the time and I said no no no no David it's okay that we don't 451 00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:47,920 need to know why you're here we just want to focus on your your future and enjoy the 452 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:52,520 present we don't need to talk about the past because I didn't want them to think of him 453 00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:58,120 as a criminal well I had a I had a volunteer card so I could go up and visit him anytime 454 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:02,840 and I would usually once a month I'd go up and go to church with him I was trying to 455 00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:07,760 convert him so I'd go up and go to church with him once a month and one Sunday I went 456 00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:16,600 up to go to church at the prison and the bishop met me at the door his greatest man I'm so 457 00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,640 sweet he met me at the door and he said brother derpy hey David came in to see me this week 458 00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:26,920 and he's been really depressed and he's really afraid that when you find out why he's here 459 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:32,400 he he really loves your family and he's afraid that when you find out why he's here in prison 460 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:37,320 that you won't bring your family anymore so he said I think it'd be really good for you 461 00:39:37,320 --> 00:39:42,400 to just kind of listen to David's story and let David tell you why he's here I said yeah 462 00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:46,320 yeah no that's fine I I don't mind knowing why he's here I just don't want any kids to 463 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:53,320 know well so after after sacrament meeting when everybody else went to Sunday school 464 00:39:53,320 --> 00:40:00,520 bishop let us use his office then we went in and David told me a story and Scott I was 465 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:08,600 I was like 34 years old but I I had never really imagined I was pretty naive I was pretty protected 466 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:15,880 as you know and David told me about how he was born to a prostitute in Kansas City never 467 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:24,080 knew his father and I just remember him telling me about how hard his childhood was and I'll 468 00:40:24,080 --> 00:40:31,640 never forget him saying when I was six my mother forced me into child prostitution and he became 469 00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:38,480 a child prostitute at the age of six and at the age of eight he became a heroin addict 470 00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:45,320 because he began to object to you know doing what his mother was getting paid for him to do I 471 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:53,720 remember him saying actually my mother made a lot of money off of me and he had this big 472 00:40:53,720 --> 00:41:02,360 dent in his forehead and it was obvious but you know I didn't really think much about it anyway 473 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:08,320 when he's telling me a story he said do you see this do you see this my forehead I said yeah and 474 00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:14,120 he said well when I was 10 one morning and I was laying in bed and I'd forgotten to take out the 475 00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:21,000 garbage and my mother hit me in the head with a tire iron and crushed my forehead never took me 476 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:28,080 to a doctor and I thought I was gonna die for several weeks and he said that when I when I 477 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:36,800 finally healed I decided that I couldn't live there she was gonna kill me so he said I ran away 478 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:45,240 at the age of 12 he ran away and he lived on the streets the age of 14 he had a gun and he said 479 00:41:45,240 --> 00:41:55,280 this is a quote I don't know why I can never forget this but he said I hated my mother but in some 480 00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:04,560 strange way I loved her and I thought I could help her so I went home I'll never forget that and 481 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:11,360 then he told me that something happened his mother did something that brought back all his bad 482 00:42:11,360 --> 00:42:18,760 memories from his childhood and and he became enraged and shot his mother and killed her then 483 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:25,720 he was put into the juvenile delinquent detention programs of the state of Missouri the state of 484 00:42:25,720 --> 00:42:32,280 Missouri took him over and and he was in detention foster home after foster home after foster home 485 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:42,960 and anyway 18 he he said that he joined the Peace Corps and he ends up in Ogden Utah and gets in 486 00:42:42,960 --> 00:42:49,600 a fight with a man and kills a man at the age of 18 and he's given he's given 10 years to life 487 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:58,080 and he was 32 I was 34 he was 32 and he'd been in prison since he was 18 so he'd been in prison 488 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:08,000 for 14 years Scott as I sat there and listened to this story it was it was appalling and it was 489 00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:17,360 shocking to me and I remember thinking wow you know I just I just didn't know how how awful how 490 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:28,880 terrible how this little this little boy had no no opportunity no shot and and yet I had this profound 491 00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:39,800 feeling of love for him anyway that I I just was overcome with compassion for him and and we 492 00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:46,680 continued to go and then we adopted to finish this story we adopted because of David really because 493 00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:52,440 because he was African-American and his influence in us and our love for him we decided we adopt 494 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:59,520 a little black boy we'd have the three stillborns and we wanted to have another baby and so we we 495 00:43:59,520 --> 00:44:04,480 went to Philadelphia and adopted this little two month old baby and David knew all about this and 496 00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:10,880 in fact if he wouldn't have approved it we wouldn't have done it but he encouraged it so we we adopted 497 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:15,800 this little black boy and I'll never forget the the next Monday first Monday of the month when we'd 498 00:44:15,800 --> 00:44:20,920 go to the prison and we had we had Isaac who we just adopted and everybody was fighting over who 499 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:27,240 was going to carry a man to the prison and show him off to David and I finally said stop it I'm 500 00:44:27,240 --> 00:44:33,200 gonna I'm gonna do that so because they were all fighting over it and so I carried him in David 501 00:44:33,200 --> 00:44:39,920 was there already there in the non-denominational chapel and he I don't know how he'd carry how 502 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:50,080 he pulled this off but he had starched increased his denim Levi's and his denim shirt his collar 503 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:56,000 was stiff and he had his top button button and he had his hair slicked back all greased and 504 00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,960 slicked back I mean it looked like he was going to his wedding or something and his black 505 00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:06,520 Nike's were polished and man he looked I said wow David you look like a million bucks and he said 506 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:16,160 well I'm I meet my godchild you know I anyway he always kind of saw Isaac that way and anyway I 507 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:25,440 said you want to hold him and he said yes so he puts out his massively muscular arms and I put 508 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:33,720 Isaac in his hands and he kind of rolls him into his into it towards his body he just kind of 509 00:45:33,720 --> 00:45:40,760 rolls him in there I tell Isaac was a little insecure and I said no David David let me let me 510 00:45:40,760 --> 00:45:46,040 show you how to hold him you got hold him like this so I took the baby bag kind of show David 511 00:45:46,040 --> 00:45:52,920 how to hold a baby and then gave him back to David and then something happened and David's eyes 512 00:45:52,920 --> 00:46:00,520 looked into Isaac's eyes and Isaac was looking into at David and and it was so interesting because 513 00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:07,640 you could just see David's countenance fall and David became immediately depressed we had our 514 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:12,960 little opening exercise we went into a room and David wouldn't talk to us the rest of night didn't 515 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:17,000 want to hold the baby and didn't want to talk to us the rest of the night and I kept saying David 516 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:22,560 what's wrong what's wrong we not he just shake his head and put up his hands and shake his head 517 00:46:22,560 --> 00:46:29,320 no he wouldn't he wouldn't say anything well it was awful it turned out to be just awful and my 518 00:46:29,320 --> 00:46:36,920 kids were just confused and upset and I just thought oh man I was I was mad I was actually I 519 00:46:36,920 --> 00:46:44,440 left mad and I stayed mad and the next day I right after I got through teaching all my classes in 520 00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:50,520 seminary I went back to the prison then I went into his house with my volunteer card I went into 521 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:56,920 his house he was in at the time minimum security after being there 14 years and but I went into 522 00:46:56,920 --> 00:47:04,680 his house and I said I just sat down and by him a little table between us I said David listen I 523 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:09,400 don't know what happened last night but if every time we come up here you're gonna act like that 524 00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:17,320 then maybe we shouldn't come anymore I was mad because of the effect that it had on my little 525 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:25,080 kids and I remember him slam it taking his hand and hardly could slam in his hand on a table and 526 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:33,160 saying it's a little late for that don't you think I said what are you talking about what happened 527 00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:44,520 last night and he said I just have one question for you why didn't God give me a mother and a 528 00:47:44,520 --> 00:47:52,120 family like that speaking of our family why couldn't I have been that baby why couldn't I have been 529 00:47:52,120 --> 00:48:03,880 adopted why couldn't I have been have a mother and a family like that wow that well first of all 530 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:11,400 that just took all the anger out of me I knew I knew why he was depressed I knew why and it was 531 00:48:12,520 --> 00:48:20,040 touching and humbling and I knew then Scott this is the first time I really came to learn this too 532 00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,240 by the way I had never really had the opportunity to even think about this but I knew how to answer 533 00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:33,000 that question I knew the answer to that question and I said to him by the Holy Ghost it was the 534 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:37,480 Holy Ghost that taught me the answer to that question and then I went back and I found all the 535 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:43,960 scriptures and the the true points of doctrine that teach it but I knew what to say and I I said 536 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:51,320 David I don't know why I don't know why God didn't give you a mom or a family like that 537 00:48:52,040 --> 00:49:01,400 but I can tell you this I can promise you this that if you desire it someday you will have a mother 538 00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:10,840 and you will have a family like that and I knew it was true and I told him that it was only through 539 00:49:10,840 --> 00:49:19,880 the Atonement of Jesus Christ that that was possible and he felt it was true and our conversation 540 00:49:19,880 --> 00:49:26,440 after that was about the the power and blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ in our life 541 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:32,600 I'll never forget that Scott and the effect that that had on me and the effect that that had on 542 00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:41,160 David oh a long story short we continue to visit David there's more to that story and you can 543 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:47,000 probably hear more about that in previous seasons but we moved to Minnesota and we kind of lost 544 00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:56,040 contact and anyway David David's have been in prison last I read that he had been institutionalized 545 00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:01,880 but somebody told me recently my son I think told me that he had read that maybe that he had gotten 546 00:50:01,880 --> 00:50:11,320 out but I will always I'm all I will always be grateful for the lesson that I learned inside 547 00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:16,440 a prison when I was 34 years old about the power of the Atonement and who it covered 548 00:50:17,720 --> 00:50:23,640 that those individuals who never had the opportunity will receive that opportunity 549 00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:31,000 if it is their desire and if they will be faithful and obedient I know that's true Scott 550 00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:38,280 and there's again there's no other gospel or church in the world that believes that 551 00:50:39,000 --> 00:50:42,920 except the church Jesus Christ Leroy de Saines because of the fullness of the gospel taught in 552 00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:49,400 the scriptures you know Dave there's a little bit of that David and all of us to a degree I think 553 00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:55,960 for sure and I and I you know we we think I I find myself thinking you know well I'm so glad I 554 00:50:55,960 --> 00:51:00,440 don't have to go through those kinds of things and and for the in large part I think that's 555 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:06,040 probably all about our experience most of our listeners experience for sure but the thing is 556 00:51:06,040 --> 00:51:12,040 though is you know and maybe this is my invitation you know when have we felt that way when have we 557 00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:18,440 felt like David you know why haven't I been blessed and when and then where where do we not see the 558 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,240 blessings that are in front of us and who do we need how do we access those how do we gain that 559 00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:28,440 understanding that's kind of our our hope you know in this podcast and the one that will surely 560 00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:33,640 follow as we talk about the effects of the atonement of Jesus Christ but we are every single one of 561 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:40,360 us affected by the negativity of the fall the fall of Adam and Eve and our own fall as you've 562 00:51:40,360 --> 00:51:45,480 mentioned you know for spiritual and physical and there's so much in our lives whether we're 563 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,640 whether we're covenant keeping members of the church or we're completely out of the church 564 00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:56,440 whether we're facing a what we would call a faith crisis or whether our testimony is solid and sure 565 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:03,080 there are things in our lives that we absolutely that absolutely necessitate us to embrace the 566 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:08,200 atonement of Jesus Christ so that we can have the peace in our lives I think that we're looking for 567 00:52:08,200 --> 00:52:15,240 and here it is Dave well the real irony and not contradiction or I don't know what phrase to use 568 00:52:15,240 --> 00:52:21,640 here of that whole story is that little black baby that we carried into prison that day two months 569 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:27,160 old little did I know that when he would be in his 20s that he would end up back in that same prison 570 00:52:27,160 --> 00:52:32,040 yeah but the other thing is about that little boy is that his story though different that's the 571 00:52:32,040 --> 00:52:39,240 point is not that much different that's the point here was a little black baby born born to a drug 572 00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:45,640 addict right in Philadelphia that we had we adopted who was born with fetal alcoholism 573 00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:53,080 bipolar as burgers yeah all kind of abused going through drug withdrawal in the hospital 574 00:52:53,080 --> 00:53:00,440 abused as a child which the court order had to take the child out of the out of its home 575 00:53:01,560 --> 00:53:12,280 anyway little did I know of how that doctrine yeah that I had learned with David would 20 576 00:53:12,280 --> 00:53:22,200 something years later come back to bless my life and see my own son in prison and know that 577 00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:28,200 he was also covered right now again I'm not saying David or my son or anyone else who goes to prison 578 00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:35,080 is not accountable I'm not the judge but there is no one on this earth who really can offer righteous 579 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:41,560 judgment Scott they judge people by the law by the law of man and that's good and the law of God 580 00:53:41,560 --> 00:53:52,040 to some extent right we have we have judges bishops and and others who judge us in mortality 581 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:59,880 but let me again it goes back to I have done all these things king Benjamin said speaking of Christ 582 00:53:59,880 --> 00:54:08,040 Christ did all these things that that there would be a righteous judgment I can't judge 583 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:15,320 I can't even judge my own son who you know we've raised he'll be he'll be 33 years old tomorrow 584 00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:26,280 well not tomorrow this next month and I can't judge him but I know the atonement covers him 585 00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:33,640 and that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ that he will receive a merciful fair equitable 586 00:54:33,640 --> 00:54:43,160 loving righteous judgment I see people we all see people on the news who we who we rush so quickly 587 00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:50,520 to judgment and we judge them and we write them off right another story I'll tell on our next 588 00:54:50,520 --> 00:55:00,520 podcast well how many people we write off we can't judge them you can't even judge your own family 589 00:55:00,520 --> 00:55:06,760 you can't even judge your own spouse no you can't and we think we know but we don't you know and 590 00:55:06,760 --> 00:55:11,560 that's the point you know so often too and I and I know that there's a lot of us probably listening 591 00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:15,640 to this because this is just the way we're programmed I and I really believe that word 592 00:55:15,640 --> 00:55:20,280 programmed to think that you know because I'm in the church I'm held more accountable there's 593 00:55:20,280 --> 00:55:25,080 some truth to that there is some truth if you have the law you're more where there's more light 594 00:55:25,080 --> 00:55:33,240 more is expected there's there is some much given much required however these things apply to us too 595 00:55:33,240 --> 00:55:38,840 as members as covenant members covenant keeping keeping members of the church we have to see 596 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:47,160 that the Lord will extend according to his mercies a fair judgment and again that a righteous 597 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:52,440 judgment might come up on the children of men that righteous judgment can only be handed by him 598 00:55:52,440 --> 00:55:57,480 and and we need to remember that is this is not just for those in the extremities these are for 599 00:55:57,480 --> 00:56:04,280 those also who feel like we are in the middle of the safe ship Zion as zelder ballard put it right 600 00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:15,800 so absolutely anyway I think my favorite quote in preach my gospel scott on page 52 all that is in 601 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:23,640 unfair about life can be made right through the atonement of Jesus Christ you know it was 602 00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:30,120 interesting that when my son Isaac was in prison and I was helping elder Anderson write write his 603 00:56:30,120 --> 00:56:35,480 book the divine gift of forgiveness elder Anderson wanted to go to the prison to meet Isaac 604 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:41,720 and so he had called me up and said if I make arrangements will you meet me there sunday morning 605 00:56:41,720 --> 00:56:48,840 at seven and and then he confirmed that that he had made arrangements and we went to the prison 606 00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:54,120 I met him there the parking lot walked in with the the prison with elder Anderson and with the 607 00:56:54,120 --> 00:57:05,000 bishop of Isaac's little ward unit and prison and after meeting about 80 prisoners elder Anderson 608 00:57:05,000 --> 00:57:13,240 talked to them and offered you know his love and his spoke about the mercy and grace of Christ and 609 00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:19,720 then he asked them if they had any questions I'll never forget that one prisoner on the isles 610 00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:24,600 about in the middle of the group who raised his hand then I'll never forget him with some 611 00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:35,400 despondency saying really elder Anderson really what hope is there for some of us because some 612 00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:47,320 of us have lost everything and I'll never forget elder Anderson who does not get too emotional or 613 00:57:47,320 --> 00:57:53,640 worse and he he doesn't get sensational about anything but I'll never forget him becoming 614 00:57:53,640 --> 00:58:01,560 quite animated you know coming up almost on his toes and his voice raising raising his voice 615 00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:09,240 then proclaiming and he bore testimony powerful testimony of the atonement of Jesus Christ and 616 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:16,360 he said there is nothing because of the atonement of Jesus Christ there is nothing that you have 617 00:58:16,360 --> 00:58:25,640 lost permanently that cannot be restored to you nothing man I remember thinking about that thing 618 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:32,840 and wow nothing well that I later read that the prophet Joseph Smith thought top that as well 619 00:58:33,560 --> 00:58:37,560 now now I know that some of those men had been divorced and lost their wives and 620 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:43,640 maybe children and maybe maybe some relationships had been lost which could not be 621 00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:51,400 really fully restored because of the agency of others but there was nothing that those men 622 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:58,440 had lost permanently if they so desired it including including a eternal companion in the family 623 00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:05,400 if they repented and that through the power the point is that through the power the gift 624 00:59:05,400 --> 00:59:14,440 the grace the mercy of Jesus Christ that anything or everything can be restored to us 625 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:22,760 that that's that's the point Scott of the the message of the the effects of the atonement 626 00:59:22,760 --> 00:59:30,520 of Jesus Christ in our lives as we approach this week and all that is in front of us I hope that 627 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:35,560 the things that we've talked about today will kind of echo in our minds and in our souls and 628 00:59:35,560 --> 00:59:42,680 remind us of our great worth such great worth that even a god died for us Jesus Christ grateful to 629 00:59:42,680 --> 01:00:06,520 know that look forward to being with you again next week and until then be well