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Hey there everybody, welcome back.

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Well Dave, here we are.

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We're tackling our second episode on Christmas this week.

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And I've been thinking a lot about this, you know.

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I've been kind of out of town for the last couple of days

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on a little vacation with Deb.

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We go down to the national finals rodeo every year

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and happens to be around my birthday.

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And so there's just a lot of things.

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What is your birthday, the 8th?

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Yeah.

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The 8th, I was thinking about that.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, and I watched some of that on cable

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and thought, wow, Scott is in heaven.

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I was.

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Dad in Vegas watching rodeo.

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That's right.

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Because your heart of hearts, people should know it.

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You're a cowboy.

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That's right.

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I am more comfortable in the dirt around horses

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than just about anywhere else.

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So well, that was a lot of fun.

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But you know when we were down there with all of the Christmas

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hustle and bustle and everything like that,

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boy, it's in full bloom in Las Vegas, as you can well imagine.

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But you know, even in Las Vegas, you know,

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with all of the lights and the tinsel

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and all of the commercialism and various things like that,

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I was able to have some really tender conversations

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with people that I love about the life of Jesus Christ

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and his kind of venture into and wander

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into the Christmas season where we celebrate his birth

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and life and all that that entails.

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I just had an overwhelming sense or feeling of gratitude

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towards Jesus and Heavenly Father too.

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You know, we're going to talk a little bit about that today,

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about maybe the greatest gift was from Him,

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from our Father in heavens.

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Anyway.

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That's sweet, Scott.

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You know, I've kind of noticed over the years

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that when we listen to Christmas music now on the radio,

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which is going on many stations,

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and we watch the television Christmas specials,

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and I won't mention names.

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But it seems as though less and less they

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play the hymns of Christmas, the holy songs about Jesus.

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And it's more about it's more about Christmas time

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than it is about Christ.

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You know what I mean?

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It's more about the season than it is the reason.

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I it's just kind of, I don't know, Scott.

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We've just become so secular and becoming more and more

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secular.

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And this is not a scientific survey,

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but it's just interesting to me listen to the radio

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if I listen to it for, I don't know, a half hour or so

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as I'm driving around that it's probably about seven or eight

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to one, you know, that for every eight songs about Christmas

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time, there'll be a song about the Savior.

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Right.

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And I watched a Christmas special lasted for an hour

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last week, and there was only one song of the whole Christmas

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special on TV that had anything to do with Jesus.

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And I just, anyway, I hope that all of our listeners

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are doing the best on their own personal playlists

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to include even on.

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I like this songs about Christmas time.

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I like those, you know, chestnuts roasting on open fire.

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I do too.

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That's all good.

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I love that.

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And I love to hear Slaybell's radio.

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And I like Rudolph even, and I like those songs.

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But I think on our own personal playlist,

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there ought to be probably one for one or one for two maybe,

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at least, that we have more songs about Jesus playing

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this time of year than we do just about the Christmas

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time and the season.

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One of the really neat things about living in the time

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that we do, though, is you can create those playlists,

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like I mentioned.

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Right?

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I mean, there are several platforms,

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and I won't mention any of those either.

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We don't endorse or any of that.

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But, you know, there are several.

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And you can go in there.

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And I love to create, and I've got a few of them.

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I mean, you mentioned, I love bluegrass Christmas music,

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especially those that sing about Jesus.

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Because, you know, those are all kind of in the heart

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of the South, right?

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Right?

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The Bible built in there.

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They do have a unique and just a beautiful relationship

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and view of Jesus Christ, the Savior, and His birth.

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And so many of those are just, they've warned me.

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They've lived me.

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You know, drama, Christmas.

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And then, you know, what I really love

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is, for example, on Sunday mornings,

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Deb and I, we have the playlists that we play

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on all of our speakers.

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You know, the speakers that we have throughout the house

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are all connected.

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And we play instrumental Christmas music, you know,

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from hymns and various things.

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And I agree.

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I love Christmas music, but I especially

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love the Christmas music that draws me to him.

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I love the Christmas music, like you said, you know,

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that reminds me of times past and all the fun times that

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are associated with Christmas.

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Because, you know, this is a celebration.

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This is a time of year when all things, all things

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that are Christmas related, if we see them this way,

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point us towards Jesus Christ.

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Yeah.

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And did we talk about that last time, some of the symbols?

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No, we really didn't get into the symbols last time.

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Maybe you need to review that with some of them.

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But, you know, I found a new Christmas song this year.

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OK.

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It's called King Size Manger by Josh Turner, country.

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Yeah, of course.

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Singer.

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I don't know if you know him.

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I don't really know him.

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But, wow, I loved that.

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I just kind of stumbled onto that on some cable network

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Christian television series.

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Anyway, King Size Manger by Josh Turner.

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There's so many good things out there

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that we're not aware of.

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And it's really important for us to just be more intentional

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on not only what we see, what we feel,

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but even what we listen to this time of year

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and try to do better in focusing on the Savior.

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It's really important how intentional we are towards the approach

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of anything.

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It's so easy, Scott, to get caught up in the secular.

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You know, I mentioned, and we talked about that,

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I was just down at the rodeo in Las Vegas.

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And, you know, that's different.

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A rodeo is a different experience than other sporting events.

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Because, for this one reason, there

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isn't a rodeo that I've ever been to where every person in the stands

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and all the cowboys and all the participants

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don't stand prior to even the singing of the national anthem

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where we pray.

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And invite Heavenly Father Spirit to be with us,

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to protect those who are participating, and to provide

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all of us with the.

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And I really loved it this time, because at the end of the prayer,

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they really focused on how that through the blood of Jesus Christ,

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all these things are possible.

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And this, that's awesome.

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Yeah.

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That's really great.

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Well, today, I want to continue our discussion about Christmas

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and the Savior.

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And we kind of talked about some of the events last week.

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I think we got Him born in a manger wrapped in swaddling

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clothes, whether that was in a con in the middle of Bethlehem,

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or whether that was in a limestone cave, which there are

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so many of those that surround Bethlehem, the limestone caves

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of Bethlehem.

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You know, there are so many things

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that we don't know really the details or specifics about.

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But today, Scott is kind of one of my favorite things

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to ponder.

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And that is the witnesses, kind of the story in general,

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and the witnesses that are Heavenly Father provided the world

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in regards to His gift to the world and the birth of His Son.

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So I'd just like to spend some time on that today.

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And then maybe we can all have some time

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to talk about Nephi's vision, amazing vision

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of the condescension of God in first Nephi chapter 11.

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I think that's such an important Christmas chapter.

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And then maybe some of the symbols, too, if we have time.

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So let's jump in and just talk about some of these witnesses,

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Scott.

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You know, when Jesus was born in Bethlehem,

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I think it's interesting to reflect upon in a manger

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that there must have been animals there

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and that animals were chosen to be eyewitnesses of that event.

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I think that's significant that even the creatures, God's

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creatures, were witnesses to that.

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And I think someday it'll be interesting

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to see which of those animals were selected to be witnesses

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and the importance of that.

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And Joseph, of course, would have been a witness.

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And Mary, her great witness and then her

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magnificent, as she proclaims her gratitude to God in Luke

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chapter 2, and who helped deliver the baby.

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Maybe Joseph, but maybe there was a midwife.

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Maybe there were others there.

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We don't know.

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Who did God provide to help this couple give birth to His Son?

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There would have been those eyewitnesses there in the manger.

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So I think that's the first group who would have seen it happen.

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And then we have the lowly shepherds.

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And you know, this week, as I've kind of been reading a little bit

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about it, and I invite our listeners to do this,

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is to go back and read.

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I hope our listeners were able to listen to the first presidency

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devotional.

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I love the doctrine that's taught in those devotional,

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especially by a member of the 12 or a member of the first

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presidency.

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President Nelson taught some great doctrine in this devotional

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this year a few weeks ago.

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But in 2020, in the Christmas devotional,

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this is President Nelson.

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So I've tried to go back since he was prophet

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and read all of his Christmas devotional addresses, which

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is a really great way, I think, to get kind of this spirit

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of meaning of Christmas in our life,

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and invite our listeners to consider doing that.

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Go back and read all of the Christmas

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devotional of President Nelson.

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He doesn't speak in every year.

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You know, sometimes it's President Eyring,

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or President Oaks, or others.

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But this is 2020.

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His birth occurred in humble circumstances

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among the animals.

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So he points that out.

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I think that's important.

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There, the lamb of God, that's maybe one reason why

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there were animals there, was born during Passover season

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among animals being prepared for paschal sacrifice.

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And one day he would be brought as a lamb to the slaughter.

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He was both the lamb and the shepherd.

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So he gives us an idea here of why, again, maybe animals

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were important, that they be witnesses,

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and why shepherds would be important, that they be witnesses.

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And this seems pretty authoritative to me,

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Scott, when he says, there the lamb of God

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was born during Passover season.

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Well, if President Nelson is saying that, believes that,

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that would put it in April.

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His birth would be sometime in April.

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And again, I think I mentioned this last week.

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So again, why it would be so crowded in Bethlehem,

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that Jews from all over the world had come back,

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not just for the census, but for Passover.

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And it makes sense that Caesar would know that they came back

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to Jerusalem for Passover, and that would be the perfect time

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to do a census.

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I just thought that was really interesting.

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I think that's a statement of doctrine.

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So these shepherds are probably watching over the paschal

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lambs being prepared, used, sacrificed during the week

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of the Passover, the great symbolism of that, Jesus

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being the lamb of God and the good shepherd.

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So the angels come, we read about this, of course,

261
00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:25,400
in Luke chapter two, right, which there's

262
00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,520
another set of witnesses, the angels themselves.

263
00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:32,040
I often think about when I think about the angels,

264
00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:35,280
I think, are these translated beings?

265
00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:39,800
Is this the choir of the city of Enoch, which would make them

266
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:41,280
translated beings?

267
00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:50,080
Or is this premortal spirits disembodied spirits?

268
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:55,120
Where was I when the birth of Jesus was taking place?

269
00:13:55,120 --> 00:13:59,400
What were spirits doing in the premortal existence?

270
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,680
Were they viewing these events?

271
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:04,560
I often think about that, Scott.

272
00:14:04,560 --> 00:14:07,800
So the choir that I think comes and becomes

273
00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,800
kind of a witness themselves to the shepherds,

274
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:13,440
I think is really powerful.

275
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,640
And everyone reads this every Christmas.

276
00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,600
But the angel of the Lord came upon them.

277
00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,360
The glory of the Lord showed around about them.

278
00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:26,600
We're talking about the shepherds, and they were sore afraid.

279
00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:29,360
And the angels said unto them, fear not.

280
00:14:29,360 --> 00:14:30,200
Fear not.

281
00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:31,880
There it is again.

282
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,880
That's what the angel always starts with when he

283
00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:35,920
appears to marry Joseph.

284
00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:38,200
And now the shepherds, for behold,

285
00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:40,600
I bring you good tidings of great joy,

286
00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,720
which shall be to all people.

287
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,480
For unto you is born this day in the city of David,

288
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:50,800
which is Bethlehem, a savior, which is Christ the Lord.

289
00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,080
And this shall be assigned unto you, shall find the babe,

290
00:14:54,080 --> 00:14:57,840
wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.

291
00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,520
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude

292
00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:04,040
of the heavenly host, the choir praising God

293
00:15:04,040 --> 00:15:07,840
and saying, glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace,

294
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,640
goodwill toward men.

295
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,320
And it came to pass as the angels were gone away from them

296
00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:13,280
into heaven.

297
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:16,640
The shepherd said one to another, let us go now into Bethlehem.

298
00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:18,160
I think we read that last week.

299
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,000
And they went and they saw.

300
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,680
And then they went out and started

301
00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:26,560
to proclaim their witness to everyone that would listen to them.

302
00:15:26,560 --> 00:15:28,760
That they had seen the Messiah.

303
00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,400
The Holy Ghost would have had to have been with them for them

304
00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:35,840
to be a witness and to witness of these things, Scott.

305
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,480
But what a powerful witness, the lowly shepherds.

306
00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:43,520
They were close to where these events would have occurred.

307
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,160
They didn't have to go too far.

308
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,440
They didn't have to sacrifice too much.

309
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:51,760
It seemed like believing was easy for them.

310
00:15:51,760 --> 00:15:53,000
And they became missionaries.

311
00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:55,400
I, as we talk about these witnesses,

312
00:15:55,400 --> 00:15:58,920
I want to just kind of compare their conditions

313
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:03,480
and circumstances and how many different kinds of witnesses

314
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,200
we have in the church today.

315
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,680
How many different kind of converts

316
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:12,800
we have in the different circumstances that they may be in.

317
00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:15,400
Some people are born close to the church.

318
00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,360
They see the prophets.

319
00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,960
I don't know if it's any easier for them.

320
00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,160
It might be actually harder for them to believe.

321
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:25,880
But we all have such different circumstances as witnesses

322
00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,520
of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and of Jesus himself.

323
00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,920
Important for us, I think, to also consider and maybe

324
00:16:32,920 --> 00:16:35,080
contemplate that in our own lives.

325
00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:36,200
How do I witness?

326
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:36,720
Yeah.

327
00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:38,120
How am I a witness?

328
00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,960
Am I the shepherd that just saw the angel?

329
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:44,520
And once I've had that experience go out

330
00:16:44,520 --> 00:16:47,360
and I'm willing to share it, I mean, with everybody around,

331
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,400
they left with some zeal, right?

332
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,280
And went out about and shared what they had seen and heard.

333
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:55,520
And quick to believe.

334
00:16:55,520 --> 00:16:56,020
Yeah.

335
00:16:56,020 --> 00:16:57,680
Not a lot of sacrifice involved.

336
00:16:57,680 --> 00:16:58,520
Yeah.

337
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,600
And it says, and they did go now.

338
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:00,880
Yeah.

339
00:17:00,880 --> 00:17:01,520
Let us go now.

340
00:17:01,520 --> 00:17:02,680
It doesn't say, hey, hang on.

341
00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:03,480
Let's debate this.

342
00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:05,160
Let's figure out what's going on here.

343
00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:09,760
Let's get the most current commentary on whether this

344
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,400
should be accurate or not.

345
00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:12,320
They came with haste.

346
00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:13,200
They did.

347
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:13,960
They came with haste.

348
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:15,560
And it wasn't hard for them to do that.

349
00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:17,080
They just immediately did that.

350
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:21,680
It just seems easy for some people to accept the restoration,

351
00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,120
the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.

352
00:17:24,120 --> 00:17:26,080
And they do it without haste.

353
00:17:26,080 --> 00:17:28,760
You know, I have a grandson, granddaughter,

354
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:29,760
in the mission field.

355
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:31,600
It's just interesting to me, the different.

356
00:17:31,600 --> 00:17:32,920
And you remember as a missionary.

357
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:34,280
I remember as a missionary.

358
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:36,640
Some people you had to really work with.

359
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,640
You had to teach them for weeks.

360
00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:40,120
It did not come easy for them.

361
00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,200
There was great sacrifice for them.

362
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,680
And then there were others who were just, they were just ready.

363
00:17:44,680 --> 00:17:45,640
They were just prepared.

364
00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,760
And they immediately almost instantly believe.

365
00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,120
And in haste, they're telling all of their friends and members

366
00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:53,480
about what they've learned.

367
00:17:53,480 --> 00:17:57,400
I mean, there's just so many different kinds of witnesses.

368
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:58,640
I like to think of the shepherds.

369
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:00,480
You know, the shepherds, they were not

370
00:18:00,480 --> 00:18:02,760
of the upper class of society, right?

371
00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:05,680
I mean, they were more of the poor.

372
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,560
They were in humble circumstances.

373
00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,560
They were among the animals for a good part

374
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:11,840
of their lives in the fields.

375
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,880
So let's just kind of transfer that in today's world, right?

376
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,040
I mean, where do we go?

377
00:18:17,040 --> 00:18:18,640
How do we find that kind of solace?

378
00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:20,160
How do we find that kind of quiet?

379
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:24,160
Where are the places where we can go so contemplation can lead us

380
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:25,800
to experiences like that?

381
00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,800
I know that there were those in that culture, in that society,

382
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:32,400
who were distracted, who were all the buzz

383
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:36,320
about the various things of the day and what was going on,

384
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:37,080
and so on.

385
00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:38,160
And here are the shepherds.

386
00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:42,320
They're in a spot where they have, their job is to look

387
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,360
after, in this case, the Paschal Lamb, which is a big job.

388
00:18:45,360 --> 00:18:45,880
Yeah.

389
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:50,560
A very big job, you know, but they have that quiet,

390
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:54,040
that solitude, and those humble circumstances,

391
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:57,440
which kind of lean or land towards them

392
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:02,320
having those experiences, maybe better than potentially others.

393
00:19:02,320 --> 00:19:04,720
Elder Holland even thought it was significant that it happened

394
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,360
in the middle of the night that many witnesses

395
00:19:08,360 --> 00:19:11,480
come to individuals in the middle of the night,

396
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:14,360
that there's something about when the world rests,

397
00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:17,200
when we shut down from the busyness of the day

398
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:18,960
and all the distractions during the day.

399
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:20,040
When everything's quiet.

400
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,280
When everything's quiet.

401
00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:22,440
I mean, you think about that.

402
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:24,920
I think many of our listeners can relate to this.

403
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,000
I mean, I think one of the most powerful witnesses

404
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:30,160
I've ever received was on my mission

405
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,880
in the middle of the night, you know, praying, searching.

406
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,880
There's just something about nighttime or early morning time

407
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:42,400
when it may be still dark, that these kind of witnesses come.

408
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:48,200
But that's one group, the shepherds, the lowly shepherds.

409
00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:51,080
Another is the wise men, which God provided,

410
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:53,880
to be another set of witnesses.

411
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,600
These men are seem to be somewhat mysterious.

412
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,720
I think it may have been more than just three men

413
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:02,080
that we always associate three wise men

414
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,880
because of the three gifts, Gold, Frank, and St. St. Mer.

415
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,240
We read about them in Matthew chapter two, actually.

416
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:11,960
Scott and maybe we can just go over there.

417
00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:15,880
And I can't wait until we can learn more about them.

418
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,240
I know the world has even tried to name them

419
00:20:19,240 --> 00:20:22,320
and has told us about their race and their color

420
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,360
and believe that they were Persian

421
00:20:24,360 --> 00:20:28,000
or that they were mystics or that they were Magi

422
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,360
or magicians.

423
00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:32,920
I don't know, we know so little about these wise men

424
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,640
or even how many there were.

425
00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:37,960
I like to think that maybe there were,

426
00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,000
as Elder McConkey says, maybe there were 12.

427
00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:42,880
Maybe it was a quorum.

428
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:44,960
They must have been believers,

429
00:20:44,960 --> 00:20:47,640
perhaps even before the star appeared.

430
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,720
But they were looking for the star.

431
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:52,960
They were looking for the prophecies to be fulfilled.

432
00:20:52,960 --> 00:20:55,720
They were at least believers in the prophecies.

433
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:57,760
And they had studied the scriptures.

434
00:20:57,760 --> 00:20:59,840
And Elder McConkey felt strongly

435
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:01,760
that they must have been Jews

436
00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:04,120
because the Jews have the scriptures.

437
00:21:04,120 --> 00:21:05,760
I don't know about any of that,

438
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:09,480
but I just know that I'm really thankful

439
00:21:09,480 --> 00:21:11,920
for the Joseph Smith translation

440
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,160
of the King James Version of the Bible

441
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,820
in Matthew chapter two,

442
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,200
because of what the prophet Joseph Smith

443
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,760
was inspired to add to this.

444
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:27,880
So in verse one.

445
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:30,680
And now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea

446
00:21:30,680 --> 00:21:32,520
in the days of Herod the King,

447
00:21:32,520 --> 00:21:35,760
behold there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

448
00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:38,600
saying, where is he that is born king of the Jews?

449
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,520
For we have seen his star in the east

450
00:21:41,520 --> 00:21:43,040
and are come to worship him.

451
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,200
Okay, so verse two is really great.

452
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:47,600
And it says that they came to worship him.

453
00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,080
But when you read, let's read this verse again, Scott,

454
00:21:51,080 --> 00:21:54,520
when you get to the little footnote A there,

455
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:57,640
right by the word where, before you read where,

456
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:02,000
go down to the JST and read what is added there.

457
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,600
And now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea

458
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,360
in the days of Herod the King,

459
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:09,400
behold there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,

460
00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,760
saying, and this is where we transition, saying,

461
00:22:12,760 --> 00:22:16,080
where is the child that was born the Messiah of the Jews?

462
00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,440
Okay, so what did they know?

463
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:20,760
They knew that he was the Messiah.

464
00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,160
To know that Jesus is the Christ,

465
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,480
to know that he's the anointed one,

466
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:29,320
to know that this is the savior and redeemer of the world,

467
00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:32,080
they would have to have the Holy Ghost.

468
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:34,480
And to have the gift of the Holy Ghost,

469
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,200
they must have had the gospel.

470
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,680
It must have been either a special dispensation.

471
00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:41,480
It could have been dispersed,

472
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:43,240
you know, the dispersion of the Jews.

473
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,680
There were Jews all over the Eastern world.

474
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:50,080
And we know that there were even Jews in the Americas

475
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:52,240
because we had a group of people over here

476
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,800
living the law of Moses with the migration of Lehi

477
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:57,960
and his family.

478
00:22:57,960 --> 00:23:00,120
So there were Jews all over the world

479
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:04,080
because of the, you know, captivity of Israel

480
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:06,040
and lost 10 tribes.

481
00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,120
I like to think of these individuals,

482
00:23:08,120 --> 00:23:10,000
whatever tribe they were from,

483
00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,400
whether they were from Judah or from another tribe,

484
00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:16,720
that this must have been a special dispensation

485
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:17,960
of individuals.

486
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:22,080
I like to think of them even as priesthood holders,

487
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,640
whether it's a quorum or not, I don't know.

488
00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,200
But I think they have the gift of the Holy Ghost, Scott.

489
00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:29,400
I think they knew.

490
00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:31,920
I think that must have been something like

491
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:34,080
what was happening here in America.

492
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,640
We know that there were signs in America.

493
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,760
We know that Nephi, the son of Nephi,

494
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,320
who was the son of Helaman.

495
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:42,600
I mean, you can read all about this

496
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,760
in Third Nephi in the Book of Mormon.

497
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:48,000
We know that they knew about the signs

498
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:49,560
and that Jesus would be born.

499
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:51,720
And we know they had the priesthood.

500
00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:54,120
And we know they had the gift of the Holy Ghost,

501
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:57,400
even though they were still living the law of Moses.

502
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:58,560
Whoever these people are,

503
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:01,240
they're probably the same sort of situation

504
00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:03,240
as the people in the Book of Mormon.

505
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,440
I believe these wise men are like the Nephis

506
00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,400
and Helamans and Almans of the Book of Mormon.

507
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:13,080
They must have, someday we'll read from their records.

508
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:15,200
Someday we'll know more about this.

509
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:19,200
But I know this, that if they knew Jesus was the Messiah,

510
00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:22,480
not just King of the Jews, but the Messiah,

511
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:24,760
and they came to worship him,

512
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,680
they had the gift of the Holy Ghost.

513
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,880
And if they had the gift of the Holy Ghost,

514
00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,720
they must have been prophets,

515
00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:36,920
or priesthood at least.

516
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:41,920
So they come and they offer the gifts are mentioned,

517
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:43,920
the three gifts,

518
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,200
they are, Herod says, go find him and come back

519
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,040
and tell me where he is, because Herod's intent,

520
00:24:50,040 --> 00:24:54,000
of course, is to kill anybody that would cause any uprising

521
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:57,200
or think of themselves or anybody else think of them

522
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,520
as being the King of the Jews.

523
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,680
So they, it says in verse nine,

524
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:05,880
when they had heard the King, they departed,

525
00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:09,040
and lo the star, which they saw in the east,

526
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:10,600
went before them,

527
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:13,160
till it came and stood over where the young child was.

528
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:16,040
It's so interesting how these individuals

529
00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:17,800
had to make such a great sacrifice.

530
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,480
I mean, let's think about this group of witnesses.

531
00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:24,440
They had to make a great sacrifice to come and see him.

532
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:26,880
And to be eyewitnesses of him,

533
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,400
they had to make a great sacrifice.

534
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:30,520
They'd waited a long time,

535
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:32,360
even though they knew the prophecies,

536
00:25:32,360 --> 00:25:34,560
they desired to be eyewitnesses,

537
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,080
and God wanted them to be eyewitnesses.

538
00:25:37,080 --> 00:25:41,320
And a star led them right to where he was.

539
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,800
It wasn't probably just, it doesn't sound like to me,

540
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:47,160
the star was just kind of a one night thing.

541
00:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,920
It sounds like to me, even though I don't know for sure,

542
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:54,320
that this star actually just led them right

543
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,600
to where he was located.

544
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,000
And I don't know what that star was.

545
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:02,880
Some people think of it as an asteroid comet.

546
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:04,240
I don't know, it's interesting to-

547
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,120
That's kind of the way it reads, right?

548
00:26:07,120 --> 00:26:10,840
It says that the star, which they saw in the east,

549
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,200
went before them till it came and stood over

550
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:15,280
where the young child was.

551
00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:16,440
I guess it could have been,

552
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,080
if you're driving along in the car and you look at the moon,

553
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:19,920
the moon can follow you.

554
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:21,320
And I guess that's possible, right?

555
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:22,720
That the star was just,

556
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:25,600
but it almost sounds like that the star went

557
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:27,760
and was over him.

558
00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:29,080
I know.

559
00:26:29,080 --> 00:26:30,960
That's how it sounds to me too.

560
00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:32,920
And then verse 11 says,

561
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:35,720
and when they were come into the house,

562
00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,120
well, first I gotta read verse 10,

563
00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:40,360
when they saw the star,

564
00:26:40,360 --> 00:26:44,040
they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.

565
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:45,640
And when they were come into the house,

566
00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:48,520
they saw the young child, not the babe,

567
00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:51,320
the young child with Mary his mother,

568
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,440
and fell down and worshiped him.

569
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,360
And when they opened their treasures,

570
00:26:55,360 --> 00:26:57,680
they presented unto him gifts,

571
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,880
gold, frankincense and myrrh.

572
00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,960
Well, and then they were warned in a dream,

573
00:27:02,960 --> 00:27:04,040
not to go back to Erad,

574
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,000
which is another side of personal revelation

575
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,880
that God gave them revelation.

576
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:12,280
These were righteous, holy men.

577
00:27:12,280 --> 00:27:15,360
They're not part of a cult.

578
00:27:15,360 --> 00:27:18,120
I don't see them at all as being like the Magi

579
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:20,720
or Mystics or whatever.

580
00:27:20,720 --> 00:27:25,000
These are inspired men who have the spirit.

581
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:26,680
It's interesting that they come to the house.

582
00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:28,080
They don't go to the manger.

583
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:28,920
They're not there.

584
00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:30,040
I know that's kind of the tradition

585
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:32,160
and I love that tradition too.

586
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:37,160
And yet it must have been months after he was born

587
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,400
that they finally are able to show up and present him gifts.

588
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:46,000
So I just think it's interesting to contrast.

589
00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:47,320
And they must have been wealthy.

590
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:48,680
They must have had money.

591
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:51,040
They are again, this great sacrifice.

592
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:54,680
They make gold, frankincense and myrrh.

593
00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:56,800
Well, none of those were cheap.

594
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:59,640
And all of them, I think could have been symbolic,

595
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:00,800
you know, of his king.

596
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,560
Some like to think that the myrrh was symbolic

597
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:08,160
of even his death, that that's part of the spice

598
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:09,800
that you anoint the dead,

599
00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,800
that they were pointing to his death and reservoir.

600
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,360
I don't know really about that,

601
00:28:14,360 --> 00:28:17,400
but I know that to bring these gifts,

602
00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,520
that they were prominent.

603
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:23,200
These are not just lowly shepherds

604
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:24,800
who didn't have much to give.

605
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:29,800
So anyway, different to contrast these witnesses

606
00:28:30,800 --> 00:28:33,920
of shepherds and wise men, Scott.

607
00:28:33,920 --> 00:28:37,920
And again, our listeners and myself and you

608
00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:39,200
ought to think about, you know,

609
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:43,960
where am I in this list of witnesses?

610
00:28:43,960 --> 00:28:47,920
You know, was it easy for me to believe

611
00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,600
that I not have to make much of a sacrifice

612
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,960
or that I paid a price, a real price

613
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:58,840
to become a witness and eyewitness of the Savior?

614
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:03,640
You just brought something up and alluded to this.

615
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:05,080
You know, where was I?

616
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:06,160
How would I respond?

617
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:07,440
What would be my response?

618
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,680
And that's something that I consider every year.

619
00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:12,400
And it's different.

620
00:29:12,400 --> 00:29:14,880
This year, I think my response would be

621
00:29:14,880 --> 00:29:16,840
a little more positive than potentially

622
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:18,560
it would have been in years past,

623
00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:21,840
just because of my constant drawing closer to the Savior

624
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:24,240
through the Holy Ghost, through putting on the atonement

625
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:27,080
of Jesus Christ, through the experiences

626
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,080
that Heavenly Father affords me each week,

627
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,080
each year, each month, whatever.

628
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,240
But I think about that, you know?

629
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,280
And in my mind's eyes, sometimes I just kind of,

630
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,200
as I'm pondering these things, I think even about

631
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,440
how would I have even received the shepherd?

632
00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:45,320
You know, would I have been in tune enough

633
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,040
or would my life been aligned enough

634
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,560
that even when the shepherd came

635
00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:51,680
and declared these great things to me,

636
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:54,480
would I have been able to fill the spirit and believe that?

637
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:58,840
You know, would I recognize the healing properties

638
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,440
behind the gifts that the wise men bring?

639
00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:03,480
You know, that's really what they are.

640
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:04,520
You think about that, you know,

641
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,800
gold, frankincense, and mur, you know, gold, pure metal.

642
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,200
One of the purest of all metals, right?

643
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,480
You think of frankincense and mur,

644
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,400
you already made the allusion to mur,

645
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,560
but you know, frankincense has great healing properties too.

646
00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,000
That's been believed over the years

647
00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,880
and still proven out, I think, today, actually.

648
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,280
But you know, so these things come to my mind

649
00:30:24,280 --> 00:30:25,800
as I think about those things.

650
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,360
I always, one of the things that I try to do

651
00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:32,120
in all of my approaches towards things spiritual,

652
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:34,800
but this especially, is where am I?

653
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:35,920
How would I react?

654
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,320
How did this apply to me?

655
00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,320
And how does this, how can this change my life

656
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:42,640
and what do I need to do to allow it to do that?

657
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000
Yeah, that's a good pattern, good practice, Scott.

658
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:48,560
Well, these gifts that the wise men offered

659
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,920
were not, have only been maybe symbolic

660
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:56,680
and part of their worship, but it would have been

661
00:30:56,680 --> 00:30:57,800
very practical.

662
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:01,640
I mean, God was helping this holy family,

663
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:05,560
Joseph, Mary, and the Christ child

664
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,960
to be able to take off and finance their way to Egypt.

665
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,440
Because right after the wise men leave the house

666
00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:15,800
and witness and present their gifts,

667
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:18,120
they're warned in a dream not to return to Herod,

668
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,400
and when they don't come back to Herod,

669
00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,960
then he has a fit and you know, it's interesting

670
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:28,960
that even Caesar said about Herod that it would be better

671
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,960
to be Herod's pig than his son,

672
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,000
because Herod had killed his own sons.

673
00:31:37,000 --> 00:31:40,840
So he wouldn't kill the pig because he wanted to

674
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:44,360
act like he was Jewish and you know, can't eat pigs

675
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,920
so you won't kill a pig, but he'll kill a son.

676
00:31:47,920 --> 00:31:52,920
And this Herod is so obsessed, God, and I think,

677
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:57,720
not just obsessed but possessed, maybe crazy,

678
00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:01,840
that he orders what's been called the slaughter

679
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:06,160
of the innocence, the slaughter of the infants.

680
00:32:06,160 --> 00:32:09,480
And it's recorded in Matthew chapter two

681
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,920
that he had all of those in Bethlehem

682
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:13,800
and in the coast thereof,

683
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:18,520
any child who was too and under to be slaughtered.

684
00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:22,040
I have no idea how many that would have been.

685
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,800
I know John the Baptist would have maybe been

686
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:26,440
among those who were threatened.

687
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:29,080
And actually we learned in the teachings

688
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:32,520
of the prophet Joseph Smith again, because of the restoration,

689
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:34,480
we learned that Zacharias was slaughtered

690
00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:39,480
because of this event, that somehow the Herod

691
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,960
and those who worked for him knew about the birth

692
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,880
of John the Baptist and something about the miraculous birth

693
00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,800
of John the Baptist and the sign that was given

694
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,000
to Zacharias and so they came to Zacharias

695
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,560
and they wanted to know where John the Baptist was

696
00:32:56,560 --> 00:33:01,080
because they wanted to kill him, the baby John the Baptist.

697
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,000
And Zacharias would not tell them where he was

698
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,720
and apparently Elizabeth had taken the baby

699
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:10,560
and gone into hiding and so when Zacharias would not

700
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:15,160
tell them where his own infant son was at,

701
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,200
so they could slaughter that child,

702
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,320
they slaughtered Zacharias instead.

703
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,800
So this would have been just an awful, awful time.

704
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:29,800
I know our hearts go out to the Palestinians

705
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:31,680
and the slaughter of the infants

706
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:33,960
that are taking place right now.

707
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,360
Anyway, I just think, wow, this must have been,

708
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,880
just think of the evil and the blood

709
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,400
that must have been shed and running in the streets

710
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:48,200
from the slaughter of the innocence of children.

711
00:33:50,320 --> 00:33:54,480
But again, Joseph received a dream as well

712
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:56,640
and was told by the Lord to go into Egypt.

713
00:33:56,640 --> 00:33:59,760
So he took Mary and he took the child

714
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:03,560
and had enough from the gifts given to him by the wise men

715
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:06,320
to flee and be protected from all of this

716
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:07,240
and they go to Egypt.

717
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:09,600
And we don't know how long they were in Egypt.

718
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:14,120
I think it might have been for years, maybe eight years,

719
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,120
maybe before he comes back and is presented at the temple

720
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:21,600
and maybe they go to the temple

721
00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:24,200
when they're on their way back to Nazareth.

722
00:34:24,200 --> 00:34:26,880
But anyway, that's an interesting part of the story

723
00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,120
that I look forward to receiving more details

724
00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:31,380
and specifics about.

725
00:34:31,380 --> 00:34:34,700
The final group of, well, not the final,

726
00:34:34,700 --> 00:34:37,060
but one of the major, one of my favorite,

727
00:34:37,060 --> 00:34:42,060
the witnesses in this story are two individuals

728
00:34:42,740 --> 00:34:44,420
who were in the temple.

729
00:34:44,420 --> 00:34:47,820
And 40 days after Jesus was born,

730
00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:52,820
as good Jewish boys, especially would be,

731
00:34:52,820 --> 00:34:57,620
was that the firstborn child, the firstborn son

732
00:34:57,620 --> 00:34:59,900
of a couple would be presented in the temple

733
00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:01,860
and that there would be a sacrifice there

734
00:35:01,860 --> 00:35:05,540
and that he would be consecrated to the Lord

735
00:35:05,540 --> 00:35:07,500
as a good Jewish boy.

736
00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:12,500
And this took place and it was 40 days after his birth.

737
00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:17,540
So if we go by his birth being around Passover time,

738
00:35:17,540 --> 00:35:20,500
this would have been sometime probably in May

739
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:25,500
when Joseph and Mary take their Jesus, the child,

740
00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:30,100
40 day old child to the temple.

741
00:35:30,100 --> 00:35:34,740
And there in the temple, we read back in Luke chapter two

742
00:35:34,740 --> 00:35:39,060
again, we read of the wit, these two special witnesses,

743
00:35:39,060 --> 00:35:43,460
this older man and this older woman.

744
00:35:43,460 --> 00:35:45,220
I don't know what their connection is,

745
00:35:45,220 --> 00:35:49,300
but Simeon is there and Simeon has been told again

746
00:35:49,300 --> 00:35:50,860
by the Holy Ghost.

747
00:35:50,860 --> 00:35:54,940
So Simeon, a believer has the Holy Ghost

748
00:35:54,940 --> 00:35:57,260
and we pick it up in verse,

749
00:35:57,260 --> 00:35:59,820
well, one thing's interesting in verse 24,

750
00:35:59,820 --> 00:36:02,220
and to offer a sacrifice according to that,

751
00:36:02,220 --> 00:36:04,300
which is said in the law of the Lord,

752
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:07,020
a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons.

753
00:36:07,020 --> 00:36:10,780
This tells us something about the sacrifice.

754
00:36:10,780 --> 00:36:13,980
You could give a burnt offering of an animal

755
00:36:13,980 --> 00:36:17,780
or a sin offering of a bird, Scott,

756
00:36:17,780 --> 00:36:21,580
and they offered just two turtle doves,

757
00:36:21,580 --> 00:36:23,420
which was according to the law,

758
00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:27,220
if you were really destitute, if you were really poor.

759
00:36:27,220 --> 00:36:31,740
So it tells us something about the kind of temporal condition

760
00:36:31,740 --> 00:36:34,860
of Joseph and Mary and how poor they were,

761
00:36:34,860 --> 00:36:39,220
how lowly they were to offer two turtle doves

762
00:36:39,220 --> 00:36:41,100
or two young pigeons.

763
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:42,780
And then verse 25 reads,

764
00:36:43,780 --> 00:36:45,780
and behold, there was a man in Jerusalem

765
00:36:45,780 --> 00:36:50,780
whose name was Simeon and the same man was just and devout.

766
00:36:51,540 --> 00:36:52,900
Love that description.

767
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:56,460
Waiting for the consolation of Israel.

768
00:36:56,460 --> 00:36:58,700
I love that title of Jesus,

769
00:36:58,700 --> 00:37:01,500
the consolation of Israel.

770
00:37:02,340 --> 00:37:05,260
And the Holy Ghost was upon him.

771
00:37:05,260 --> 00:37:10,260
Verse 26, and it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost

772
00:37:10,260 --> 00:37:13,180
that he should not see death before he had seen

773
00:37:13,180 --> 00:37:15,380
the Lord's Christ.

774
00:37:16,340 --> 00:37:19,540
And he came by the Spirit into the temple.

775
00:37:19,540 --> 00:37:22,940
And when the parents brought him the child Jesus

776
00:37:22,940 --> 00:37:26,500
to do for him after the custom of the law,

777
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:31,500
then took he, then took he, him up in his arms

778
00:37:31,580 --> 00:37:35,980
and blessed God and said, Lord,

779
00:37:35,980 --> 00:37:39,540
thou letst thou thy servant depart in peace

780
00:37:39,540 --> 00:37:43,740
according to thy word, for mine eyes have seen

781
00:37:43,740 --> 00:37:47,180
thy salvation, which thou hast prepared

782
00:37:47,180 --> 00:37:49,980
before the face of all people,

783
00:37:49,980 --> 00:37:52,660
a light to lighten the Gentiles

784
00:37:52,660 --> 00:37:56,420
and the glory of thy people Israel.

785
00:37:56,420 --> 00:38:00,860
And Joseph and his mother, Mary, marveled at those things

786
00:38:00,860 --> 00:38:03,660
which were spoken of him.

787
00:38:03,660 --> 00:38:06,740
And Simeon blessed them and said unto Mary,

788
00:38:06,740 --> 00:38:11,300
his mother, behold, this child is set for the fall.

789
00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:15,840
Or we might think of that he is appointed

790
00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:20,840
to overcome the fall and rising again of many in Israel,

791
00:38:21,660 --> 00:38:26,660
meaning the rising, the healing in his wings of Israel,

792
00:38:27,580 --> 00:38:29,420
the salvation of Israel.

793
00:38:29,420 --> 00:38:32,660
And for a sign which shall be spoken against,

794
00:38:32,660 --> 00:38:37,660
verse 35, yea, a sword shall pierce through thine own soul

795
00:38:37,820 --> 00:38:42,820
also, alluding to the prophecy of a sword

796
00:38:42,820 --> 00:38:47,820
being piercing the side of Jesus when he's crucified

797
00:38:49,740 --> 00:38:54,740
and warning Mary that it's going to be like the sword

798
00:38:54,940 --> 00:38:56,140
going through her.

799
00:38:56,140 --> 00:38:59,620
I mean, it's going to be really painful for Mary

800
00:38:59,620 --> 00:39:02,060
to raise this boy.

801
00:39:02,060 --> 00:39:05,500
That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.

802
00:39:05,500 --> 00:39:09,540
Well, I love those inspired verses written by Luke.

803
00:39:09,540 --> 00:39:13,180
And we believe, Scott, that Luke's source for this

804
00:39:13,180 --> 00:39:17,140
would have been the mother of Jesus Mary herself

805
00:39:17,140 --> 00:39:20,700
who shared with Luke these events and these words.

806
00:39:22,060 --> 00:39:27,060
And this Simeon, what is, this is another kind of

807
00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:31,920
circumstance or set of witnesses who are in the house

808
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:34,840
of the Lord waiting upon the Lord.

809
00:39:34,840 --> 00:39:39,720
They don't go anywhere to go see Jesus, he comes to them.

810
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:45,720
They're just engaged in the work of the Lord in the temple

811
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:51,200
in offering whatever sacrifices they can there to the Lord.

812
00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:56,080
And Jesus is brought to them, he comes to them,

813
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,300
fulfilling the prophecy that they would see him

814
00:39:59,300 --> 00:40:01,040
before they died.

815
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:02,200
So that's Simeon.

816
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:03,040
Any thoughts on Simeon?

817
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:04,440
You want to talk about Anna?

818
00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:08,560
One of the kind of, you know, there's really what,

819
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:13,560
five essential parts when we do the rest of the podcast,

820
00:40:13,920 --> 00:40:16,840
and one of those essential parts that we talk about

821
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:18,160
is faith.

822
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:21,400
We talk about faith and the different levels of faith.

823
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:23,840
We have faith, we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ,

824
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,160
we have faith in the name of Christ.

825
00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:30,640
And all of those things as we increase in faith move up.

826
00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,120
Well, think about this, if you had a witness,

827
00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:34,120
I'll put it in first person.

828
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:37,640
If I had a witness of the Holy Ghost, the Jesus Christ

829
00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:40,680
that I would see the Savior, right?

830
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:41,680
What did he call him here?

831
00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:46,680
The consolation of Israel before my death, you know,

832
00:40:46,840 --> 00:40:47,720
I would wonder.

833
00:40:48,960 --> 00:40:49,800
I don't know.

834
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:51,680
I mean, maybe my faith would be pure enough.

835
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,920
Maybe my faith would be deep enough,

836
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:56,720
but imagine Simeon's faith.

837
00:40:56,720 --> 00:40:58,440
He didn't seem surprised.

838
00:40:58,440 --> 00:41:01,920
His response was, holy cow, it's real.

839
00:41:01,920 --> 00:41:04,040
I can't believe this is actually real.

840
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:06,960
You know, his response was much more reverent,

841
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:10,520
much more worshipful than any of that.

842
00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:12,840
You know, here is, and he witnesses,

843
00:41:12,840 --> 00:41:15,240
because he's been born witness through the spirit

844
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,880
of the Holy Ghost, the same method that we're all born

845
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,320
witness of, the divinity of Jesus Christ.

846
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:23,600
He had received that, he recognized it,

847
00:41:23,600 --> 00:41:26,840
he embraced it fully and look at the experience

848
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,240
that not only he had, but that we all get to have

849
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:33,120
because of his experience and the recording of it.

850
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:34,520
I wish we had more detail.

851
00:41:34,520 --> 00:41:37,080
I wish we had his first person.

852
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:40,040
I look forward to maybe one day visiting with Simeon

853
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:43,760
and just asking him, what was that like for you?

854
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,400
And not only that, but give me insight into what led up

855
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,360
to your faith in having that,

856
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:50,640
even before he was presented to you.

857
00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:51,640
Really, really.

858
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:55,520
And maybe Simeon felt like his best opportunity

859
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,080
to have that prophecy fulfilled,

860
00:41:57,080 --> 00:41:59,360
that promise of seeing him before he died,

861
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:02,720
would take place in the house of the Lord, in the temple.

862
00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:05,960
So he was at the temple and it's just interesting, right?

863
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:09,640
You know, to compare shepherds go to the manger,

864
00:42:09,640 --> 00:42:11,600
wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger,

865
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,840
think of the humble circumstances, become witnesses.

866
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:20,080
The wise men go to the house, they go to the house,

867
00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,280
something sacred about the manger scene,

868
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:26,040
something sacred about that house scene,

869
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,400
sacred nature of the holy family in the home.

870
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,160
Right. Right.

871
00:42:31,160 --> 00:42:35,440
And then Simeon sees him in the temple.

872
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:36,600
Yeah.

873
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,640
It is interesting, again, the different circumstances

874
00:42:39,640 --> 00:42:42,400
and the different, the many, all the different places

875
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,000
got where we can be a witness,

876
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,880
where we can see the face of the Lord,

877
00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:52,960
where we can see his hands in our life, hear his voice

878
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,560
and be a witness of him.

879
00:42:55,440 --> 00:43:00,440
So Anna, one of my favorite witnesses,

880
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,440
there was one Anna, verse 36 in Luke two, a prophetess.

881
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:08,880
She's called a prophetess of the tribe of Asher.

882
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,680
She was of great age, had lived with a husband

883
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,120
seven years from her virginity.

884
00:43:14,120 --> 00:43:16,480
So I don't know, maybe that would put her,

885
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:20,000
maybe around in her 20s when her husband dies

886
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:23,680
and she was a widow of about four score in four years.

887
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:26,800
So I know the Catholics actually celebrate Anna

888
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:29,240
as being 84 when this happens.

889
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:34,240
But as I read this, she was a widow for 84 years

890
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:35,320
after she was married.

891
00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:38,480
I think she could be a hundred years older, Morse God.

892
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:39,640
I don't know.

893
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,360
I don't think it's, you know, nothing definitive here,

894
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:46,920
but she's old, especially for those times.

895
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,360
I mean, I think the Jewish lifestyle time of people

896
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:55,360
at the time of Jesus for most people were around 50

897
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,960
or even in their 40s.

898
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,960
She's old, she's a hundred, maybe more, maybe a little less.

899
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:06,920
She was a widow of about four score in four years,

900
00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:09,480
which departed not from the temple.

901
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:11,160
I love this description of her.

902
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,680
She departed not from the temple,

903
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:19,680
but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.

904
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:25,840
And she coming in that instant gave thanks, gave thanks,

905
00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:29,960
like and likewise unto the Lord and spake of him

906
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:34,960
to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.

907
00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,640
I just think that's a really short,

908
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,480
but really sweet description of Anna and her witnessing

909
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:48,080
of the Savior, witnessing not only of him,

910
00:44:48,080 --> 00:44:52,120
but of the redemption of Jerusalem and all of Israel.

911
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,680
So I'd like to know more about Anna,

912
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,920
but there again, she would not depart from the temple.

913
00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:02,520
I don't know if there was any prophecy

914
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,120
in regards to her experience.

915
00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:07,800
If she knew that she would see him,

916
00:45:07,800 --> 00:45:10,880
but when she did see him, she knew,

917
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:15,200
and that experience happened best for her in the temple.

918
00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:18,720
So we have all of these witness, Scott,

919
00:45:18,720 --> 00:45:22,760
that are contained in the story of the birth of Jesus

920
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:25,880
in the Bible, and we have other witnesses,

921
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:29,640
many other witnesses that I'm sure are not recorded

922
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:34,320
and some that are recorded, that are maybe scriptures

923
00:45:34,320 --> 00:45:37,640
that we'll read from sometime in the millennium.

924
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,160
There must have been other special dispensation

925
00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:43,520
and other groups of the tribes of Israel

926
00:45:43,520 --> 00:45:47,040
who looked for these prophecies and knew that

927
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,040
the time had been delivered and that Jesus was born.

928
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,560
And one of those is in the Book of Mormon,

929
00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,400
the special dispensation of Nephites and Lamanites

930
00:45:58,400 --> 00:45:59,880
in the Book of Mormon.

931
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:03,520
We go to maybe third Nephi chapter one.

932
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:07,680
We have this amazing story that Samuel the Lamanite

933
00:46:07,680 --> 00:46:10,280
had prophesied and told the people,

934
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:12,640
just come out and told the people, you got five years,

935
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:14,640
and in five years, the sign's gonna be given,

936
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,440
and this is the sign, he details on what the sign is.

937
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:20,880
The sign is there will be a day and a night and a day,

938
00:46:20,880 --> 00:46:22,880
but no darkness.

939
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,760
There will be no darkness at night.

940
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,880
You'll have, I don't know if the sun didn't go down

941
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:30,640
or the stars were so bright,

942
00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:32,640
or I don't know how that really happened,

943
00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:34,280
but that there would be no night.

944
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:35,920
And he says, you got five years,

945
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:39,920
and when that happens, you'll know that Jesus is born

946
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:43,160
and that the prophecies have been fulfilled.

947
00:46:43,160 --> 00:46:45,840
Well, five years comes and goes

948
00:46:45,840 --> 00:46:50,280
and the people are so doubtful of such little faith

949
00:46:50,280 --> 00:46:54,080
that many of them or most of them even said,

950
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:56,000
okay, so if it doesn't happen,

951
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:58,560
we're gonna kill those who believe it is going to happen.

952
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:01,880
They're ludicrous and we're gonna kill them.

953
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,720
And so that's the circumstances we find Nephi,

954
00:47:06,720 --> 00:47:10,320
son of Nephi, who's the son of Eli, or son of Helaman,

955
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,240
and Nephi prays and he prays all night,

956
00:47:14,240 --> 00:47:16,320
and the Lord speaks to him.

957
00:47:16,320 --> 00:47:19,440
Let's just go to, I just think this is so sweet

958
00:47:19,440 --> 00:47:24,440
that Nephi hears the voice of the Lord, doesn't see him.

959
00:47:24,800 --> 00:47:29,800
He will see him when he appears to him 33 years later,

960
00:47:30,040 --> 00:47:34,760
and his resurrection, he'll become one of the 12 Nephi apostles,

961
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,560
but in the third Nephi chapter one,

962
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:40,240
we read where the Lord speaks to him.

963
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:42,800
So they're going to put them to death,

964
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:46,520
and he, verse 12 says in third Nephi one,

965
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:50,280
it came to pass that he cried mightily into the Lord

966
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,840
all that day, and behold, the voice of the Lord

967
00:47:52,840 --> 00:47:56,800
came unto him saying, I mean, this is so sweet,

968
00:47:56,800 --> 00:48:01,280
the spirit, I don't know how this revelation was received.

969
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:02,960
He said it's the voice of the Lord,

970
00:48:02,960 --> 00:48:06,080
it could be the Holy Ghost, speaking the voice of the Lord,

971
00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:08,160
or maybe it could even be an angel.

972
00:48:08,160 --> 00:48:11,600
I'm not sure, maybe it's the Lord himself,

973
00:48:11,600 --> 00:48:15,320
who is in the womb of Mary,

974
00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:19,000
but he could speak to him as well, I suppose.

975
00:48:19,000 --> 00:48:22,600
Verse 13, here's the voice of the Lord to Nephi.

976
00:48:22,600 --> 00:48:25,400
Lift up your head and be of good cheer.

977
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:28,080
That's so awesome.

978
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,320
Be of good cheer, first thing he tells him.

979
00:48:31,240 --> 00:48:34,260
In other words, don't fear, be of good cheer.

980
00:48:35,240 --> 00:48:37,160
For behold, the time is at hand,

981
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,640
and on this night shall the sign be given,

982
00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,000
and on the morrow come I into the world.

983
00:48:44,000 --> 00:48:46,840
So whoever it is, speaking in first person,

984
00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,280
to show unto the world that I will fulfill all that

985
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:54,640
which I have caused to be spoken

986
00:48:54,640 --> 00:48:57,840
by the mouth of my holy prophets.

987
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:00,720
It seems that to the Lord, the Savior,

988
00:49:00,720 --> 00:49:04,080
it was, this is really important to him,

989
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:06,720
that one of the reasons he's coming

990
00:49:06,720 --> 00:49:08,720
is not just to be our Savior and Redeemer,

991
00:49:08,720 --> 00:49:10,480
I think that's the primary reason,

992
00:49:10,480 --> 00:49:15,480
but it's also to fulfill the words of the prophets.

993
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:20,400
Behold, I come unto my own to fulfill all things

994
00:49:20,400 --> 00:49:23,760
which I have made known unto the children of men

995
00:49:23,760 --> 00:49:26,240
from the foundation of the world,

996
00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:31,240
and to do the will both of the Father and of the Son,

997
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,000
of the Father because of me,

998
00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:36,760
and of the Father because of my flesh.

999
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:39,000
And behold, the time is at hand,

1000
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:42,200
and this night shall the sign be given.

1001
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,120
Well, the sign was given,

1002
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:49,600
many fell down to the earth as if they were dead

1003
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:52,440
and thought it was over for them.

1004
00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:55,560
It says that the more part of them,

1005
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:59,880
which like duh, the more part of them believed,

1006
00:49:59,880 --> 00:50:02,240
I mean, how could they not, right?

1007
00:50:02,240 --> 00:50:05,440
A day and a night and a day and there's no darkness,

1008
00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,080
how could they not believe?

1009
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,600
So the more part of them did believe,

1010
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:11,640
but many of them would have fallen away.

1011
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,920
So here's another group of witnesses, Scott,

1012
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,240
another group of, not just Nephi,

1013
00:50:17,240 --> 00:50:19,800
who actually hears the voice of the Lord,

1014
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:23,360
but these individuals who see these signs and they believe.

1015
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:25,800
I don't know how long that lasts.

1016
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:27,000
It seems like for most of them,

1017
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,800
it doesn't last all that long.

1018
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:31,780
A year, two years, it seems like a few years later,

1019
00:50:31,780 --> 00:50:34,960
by about three or four years later,

1020
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,000
it says that most of them have fallen away.

1021
00:50:38,000 --> 00:50:39,360
They no longer believe.

1022
00:50:40,520 --> 00:50:45,000
And that, unfortunately, 33 years later,

1023
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:46,560
after the sign's given,

1024
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,040
of course, the incredible destruction

1025
00:50:50,040 --> 00:50:52,240
that happens in the Americas.

1026
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,120
And many of those individuals would have no doubt

1027
00:50:57,120 --> 00:51:01,080
maybe been some of those who had actually seen the sign,

1028
00:51:01,080 --> 00:51:04,440
given, testified of, prophesied of,

1029
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,400
by Samuel the Lamanite,

1030
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:09,360
many of those who were maybe destroyed in those cities

1031
00:51:09,360 --> 00:51:12,400
would have been those individuals who had seen the sign,

1032
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,080
who had fallen down, who had believed,

1033
00:51:16,460 --> 00:51:18,360
but had fallen away,

1034
00:51:18,360 --> 00:51:22,120
because they had never received the real witness

1035
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,760
and testimony of the Holy Ghost.

1036
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,800
It seems to me, Scott, that's the key

1037
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:31,080
in these witnesses and the difference between the witnesses

1038
00:51:31,080 --> 00:51:34,080
is are they seeing signs?

1039
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:37,600
Are they just believing because they see signs?

1040
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:40,560
Or are they believing because of revelation

1041
00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,640
and because they have the gift of the Holy Ghost?

1042
00:51:42,640 --> 00:51:45,220
And I hope our listeners can just ponder about that

1043
00:51:45,220 --> 00:51:47,180
and think about where are they at

1044
00:51:47,180 --> 00:51:50,060
in their witness of the Savior this Christmas time?

1045
00:51:50,060 --> 00:51:52,120
Have they received the witness of the Holy Ghost?

1046
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,680
Because that's ultimately the one

1047
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,160
that seems to make the difference in all of these.

1048
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:58,500
I'm just gonna take a second on this,

1049
00:51:58,500 --> 00:52:00,560
because you used the word received, right?

1050
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:05,560
And the word received means that we take action.

1051
00:52:05,560 --> 00:52:10,560
We can't just passively be in our lives and receive.

1052
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,360
It requires effort on our part to receive.

1053
00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,360
And it is a gift, it's not something you were.

1054
00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:16,880
The gift comes through what?

1055
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:18,400
Broken heart, contrite spirit,

1056
00:52:18,400 --> 00:52:20,400
aligning our lives with Him.

1057
00:52:20,400 --> 00:52:24,000
And through that alignment, then the gift comes, right?

1058
00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,760
And it's work, but it's a different work,

1059
00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:28,120
as Adam Miller would say, a completely different work.

1060
00:52:28,120 --> 00:52:29,600
It's working nonetheless.

1061
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:33,400
But that work to receive would have required them to,

1062
00:52:33,400 --> 00:52:38,000
and it requires us today, to not just rest on our laurels,

1063
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:39,600
that when that witness comes,

1064
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:41,600
that we continually take action

1065
00:52:41,600 --> 00:52:45,480
to continually have that witness reinserted into our lives.

1066
00:52:45,480 --> 00:52:49,480
And there's a lesson for me there, for those people.

1067
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:51,720
I mean, I wonder where I would have been.

1068
00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:53,820
I like to hope that I would have been one of those

1069
00:52:53,820 --> 00:52:57,080
that would have also received Him in the beginning

1070
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,000
and during the Great Destruction.

1071
00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:01,880
That would later come, but those are things

1072
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,080
that I think are important for each of us to consider.

1073
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:05,240
Yeah, how sweet.

1074
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:09,280
Well, Nephi hears the voice, and Nephi becomes so powerful.

1075
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:12,680
I think this Nephi, in third Nephi,

1076
00:53:12,680 --> 00:53:15,480
and you wanna learn more about him, read chapter seven.

1077
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,000
This Nephi became such a powerful witness

1078
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,600
that those who heard him could not disbelieve him.

1079
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:22,640
Maybe they didn't believe him,

1080
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:24,440
maybe he didn't change their life.

1081
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:29,440
But this Nephi, who the Lord had spoken to in chapter one,

1082
00:53:30,360 --> 00:53:32,720
by chapter seven, he's such a powerful missionary

1083
00:53:32,720 --> 00:53:34,920
that angels attend to him daily,

1084
00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:39,920
and that when he testifies, people cannot disbelieve him.

1085
00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:41,600
I think he's one of the greatest missionaries.

1086
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,360
I wish we knew more about his missionary experiences

1087
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,520
or stories about him, but I think he must be

1088
00:53:47,520 --> 00:53:50,400
one of the most powerful missionaries and prophets

1089
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,080
and testators in the Book of Mormon of the Savior.

1090
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:55,880
So all of the different witnesses,

1091
00:53:55,880 --> 00:53:59,240
well, that leads us, I just wanna spend a moment

1092
00:53:59,240 --> 00:54:03,560
on the condescension of God in first Nephi chapter one,

1093
00:54:03,560 --> 00:54:05,880
because I think this may be one of the most,

1094
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:08,160
besides Luke two, maybe one of the most

1095
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:13,160
Christmassy scripture chapters in all the standard works

1096
00:54:13,800 --> 00:54:17,240
is Nephi's vision when he's caught away by the Spirit

1097
00:54:17,240 --> 00:54:19,200
in the top of the high mountain,

1098
00:54:19,200 --> 00:54:21,280
he wants to see the Spirit, the Spirit,

1099
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:24,720
this is the Holy Ghost, Scott, speaking of the Holy Ghost,

1100
00:54:24,720 --> 00:54:27,000
it says, the Spirit of the Lord appears to him.

1101
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:29,480
Now, some people think that may actually be

1102
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:31,160
the pre-mortal Christ.

1103
00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:34,280
I seems like to me most of the prophets,

1104
00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:36,600
except the fact that the Spirit of the Lord here

1105
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:37,960
is the Holy Ghost.

1106
00:54:39,000 --> 00:54:43,000
I remember Mary and G Romney, LeGrand Richards,

1107
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:47,280
and many others in general conference have said that

1108
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:51,400
and have actually said that this is one of the few

1109
00:54:51,400 --> 00:54:56,160
appearances of the Holy Ghost to individuals in the flesh.

1110
00:54:56,160 --> 00:54:59,120
I mean, men on the earth, mortal men,

1111
00:54:59,120 --> 00:55:04,120
that the Holy Ghost appeared as a spirit to these men.

1112
00:55:04,720 --> 00:55:08,480
And it even says in this chapter that he spoke

1113
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:10,240
to Nephi face to face.

1114
00:55:10,240 --> 00:55:15,200
Well, if that's the Holy Ghost, then we have a experience

1115
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:18,720
where others have seen actually the Spirit

1116
00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:20,640
of the Holy Ghost.

1117
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:23,440
Well, the Holy Ghost appears to Nephi

1118
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,320
after carrying him to the top of the high mountain

1119
00:55:26,320 --> 00:55:27,680
and ask him, what do you desire?

1120
00:55:27,680 --> 00:55:30,520
And he says, I desire to know what my father saw.

1121
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:34,680
I want to see the dream, the tree of life, the iron rod.

1122
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,360
I want to know more about that.

1123
00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:39,280
I want to see what he saw and know the meaning

1124
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:40,600
of these things.

1125
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:44,000
And the Spirit of the Lord asked him,

1126
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:45,400
do you believe in the words of your father?

1127
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:46,360
And he says, you know I do.

1128
00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:50,400
And he says, okay, do you believe us in the Son

1129
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:52,200
of the Most High?

1130
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:53,640
And he says he does.

1131
00:55:53,640 --> 00:55:57,280
And after he says that, he sees the tree.

1132
00:55:57,280 --> 00:56:00,800
It seems really clear to me, that's in verse six and seven.

1133
00:56:00,800 --> 00:56:02,400
It seems really clear to me, Scott,

1134
00:56:02,400 --> 00:56:05,120
that the angel is, or the Spirit of the Lord,

1135
00:56:05,120 --> 00:56:06,880
sorry, the angel hasn't come yet.

1136
00:56:06,880 --> 00:56:09,600
The Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Ghost says,

1137
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:13,160
okay, so the tree of life,

1138
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:17,240
the thing that symbolizes the love of God

1139
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,560
is the Son of God.

1140
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:24,480
The tree of life is the Son of God.

1141
00:56:24,480 --> 00:56:26,880
The condescension of God.

1142
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:30,600
The coming down to earth of God to Father,

1143
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:34,320
his Son, by a virgin named Mary.

1144
00:56:34,320 --> 00:56:38,880
And the gift of the Father to the world

1145
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,880
in the form of his Son.

1146
00:56:40,880 --> 00:56:45,640
For God so loved the world, right, John chapter three.

1147
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,000
For God so loved the world,

1148
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,480
that he gave his only begotten Son.

1149
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,600
This is the real story of Christmas, Scott,

1150
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,240
is the condescension of God,

1151
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,720
who is symbolized by the tree of life,

1152
00:57:02,720 --> 00:57:06,320
seen by Lehi, Nephi, and I'm sure many others

1153
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:09,080
that we may or may not have a record of.

1154
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:12,520
And the Holy Ghost speaks to Nephi,

1155
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,640
it says in verse 11, face to face.

1156
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:21,160
And he spakeeth unto me as a man speaketh with another.

1157
00:57:21,160 --> 00:57:24,160
And he was in the form of a man.

1158
00:57:24,160 --> 00:57:28,440
Then an angel appears and the angel says unto him, look.

1159
00:57:28,440 --> 00:57:33,440
And he looks and he sees this city of Nazareth.

1160
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,160
He sees the virgin.

1161
00:57:36,160 --> 00:57:38,600
He sees the heavens were opened.

1162
00:57:38,600 --> 00:57:41,400
This is the closest the Father wants us to know

1163
00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,040
about how Jesus was fathered by him.

1164
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:49,520
And a virgin most beautiful and fair above all of the virgins.

1165
00:57:49,520 --> 00:57:53,400
And he said unto him, knowest thou the condescension of God?

1166
00:57:54,320 --> 00:57:57,160
Nephi's response is so classic.

1167
00:57:57,160 --> 00:58:00,560
After the angel asked him that, Nephi says,

1168
00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:05,200
I said unto him, I know that he loved his children.

1169
00:58:05,200 --> 00:58:09,680
Nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.

1170
00:58:09,680 --> 00:58:10,520
Isn't that awesome?

1171
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,880
I love that because I think back to Elder Holland.

1172
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:15,640
You know, when Elder Holland gave his talk,

1173
00:58:15,640 --> 00:58:19,040
let's focus on what we do know, right?

1174
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:23,400
So he's focusing on, I do know that he loves me,

1175
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:24,560
but I want to know more.

1176
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,040
And then everything that he does

1177
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:27,560
is because he loves the world.

1178
00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,600
I mean, that kind of goes to 2 Nephi 26.

1179
00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:32,280
Everything the Lord does,

1180
00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,680
he does because he loves the world.

1181
00:58:34,680 --> 00:58:37,440
And you know what, that can answer a lot of questions

1182
00:58:37,440 --> 00:58:40,280
and certainly help us overcome a lot of challenges

1183
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:41,960
and afflictions in our lives.

1184
00:58:41,960 --> 00:58:44,560
God is to know, no matter what,

1185
00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:48,720
God's love is constant, unchanging, eternal.

1186
00:58:48,720 --> 00:58:51,000
And that he loves me no matter what.

1187
00:58:51,000 --> 00:58:56,000
I just, that may be the most important thing to know.

1188
00:58:56,120 --> 00:58:58,680
And the most, maybe most important thing to focus

1189
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,000
on this Christmas season and every season of the year

1190
00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:03,640
is that God loves me.

1191
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:06,080
I mean, that's the great message of the Christmas seasons,

1192
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:09,320
God, is the condescension of God

1193
00:59:09,320 --> 00:59:12,960
and the love of God in the form of his son.

1194
00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:15,160
Well, the angel walks him through the process,

1195
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:19,880
walks him through this amazing vision in verse 21.

1196
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:22,880
The angel had told him to look and he looks

1197
00:59:22,880 --> 00:59:24,440
and the angel said unto me,

1198
00:59:24,440 --> 00:59:26,440
behold the Lamb of God,

1199
00:59:26,440 --> 00:59:31,440
yea, even the son of the eternal father, exclamation mark.

1200
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:34,000
I often think about how Joseph Smith,

1201
00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:35,480
when he translated this,

1202
00:59:35,480 --> 00:59:38,000
how he knew to put an exclamation mark there

1203
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:41,080
or whoever put the punctuation mark there.

1204
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,720
Whether Joseph told Oliver Cowdery to do that

1205
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:46,440
or Oliver Cowdery knew to do that by the spirit.

1206
00:59:46,440 --> 00:59:49,640
But I think that's an important exclamation mark.

1207
00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,080
I actually circle all the exclamation marks

1208
00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,980
in the Book of Mormon, Scott.

1209
00:59:54,980 --> 00:59:56,980
When there's an exclamation mark in the Book of Mormon,

1210
00:59:56,980 --> 00:59:58,880
I think that's important.

1211
00:59:58,880 --> 01:00:01,240
And there's one there in verse 21,

1212
01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:03,640
behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the son

1213
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,440
of the eternal father, exclamation mark.

1214
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,960
Knowest thou the meaning of the tree

1215
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:09,720
which thy father saw?

1216
01:00:09,720 --> 01:00:11,120
Verse 22.

1217
01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,520
And I answered to him saying, yea, yea, I do know.

1218
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:16,040
I know, I know.

1219
01:00:16,040 --> 01:00:19,600
The tree is the love of God,

1220
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:22,080
which Shaddeth itself abroad in the hearts

1221
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:23,480
of the children of men,

1222
01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:28,320
wherefore it is the most desirable above all things.

1223
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:30,520
And he spake unto me saying,

1224
01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,120
the angel said, yes, you're right Nephi,

1225
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:34,760
it is the most desirable thing,

1226
01:00:34,760 --> 01:00:39,760
and the most joyous to the soul.

1227
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:41,420
I wonder who this angel is.

1228
01:00:41,420 --> 01:00:42,720
Is this Gabriel?

1229
01:00:42,720 --> 01:00:45,400
Is this the same angel who appeared to the shepherds

1230
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:49,800
and who said joy to the world, the Lord has come?

1231
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:53,000
Is this the same angel who told them all not to fear,

1232
01:00:53,000 --> 01:00:56,440
but to have joy, to cheer, to be of good cheer?

1233
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:58,520
Is this that, is this Gabriel?

1234
01:00:58,520 --> 01:00:59,920
Who is this angel?

1235
01:00:59,920 --> 01:01:01,880
I'd love to know more about that.

1236
01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:03,520
Well, this whole chapter goes through

1237
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:07,120
and talks about not just the birth of Jesus Christ,

1238
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:08,840
but evidence of the love of God

1239
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,240
because he sacrifices his life.

1240
01:01:11,240 --> 01:01:13,320
And that there are apostles called

1241
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,280
and they sacrifice their life.

1242
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:19,800
I just think our listeners should read

1243
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,880
this Christmas season, first Nephi chapter 11, Scott.

1244
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:28,880
I think again, it's one of the most Christmassy

1245
01:01:28,880 --> 01:01:31,640
of all chapters in the Book of Mormon.

1246
01:01:31,640 --> 01:01:36,440
And every time I read the first Nephi chapter 11,

1247
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:39,960
I feel closer to my Savior and I feel the Holy Ghost,

1248
01:01:39,960 --> 01:01:44,000
and I become one of the witnesses of those events, Scott.

1249
01:01:44,000 --> 01:01:49,000
I'm a witness of the events of the first Christmas,

1250
01:01:49,120 --> 01:01:51,960
and pray that all of our listeners

1251
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:54,840
will become a part of that group

1252
01:01:54,840 --> 01:01:57,080
and feel the Holy Ghost bear witness

1253
01:01:57,080 --> 01:01:59,400
that those events are true.

1254
01:01:59,400 --> 01:02:02,600
Even though we may not have been there

1255
01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,880
and may have not been eyewitnesses,

1256
01:02:04,880 --> 01:02:09,880
I know that Anna and Simeon, I know the wise men

1257
01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:13,840
and the shepherds and those who were present knew,

1258
01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:16,820
and I know and you can know too.

1259
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:19,680
And I hope that we'll do that.

1260
01:02:19,680 --> 01:02:22,240
And reading first Nephi chapter 11

1261
01:02:22,240 --> 01:02:25,320
may be one of the ways for you to receive that witness.

1262
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:30,320
It's our deepest desire that each of us have the ability

1263
01:02:30,520 --> 01:02:33,120
to draw up on those witnesses ourselves.

1264
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:37,520
I think that it's important to each of us potentially

1265
01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:41,960
to have that experience or experiences like unto that

1266
01:02:41,960 --> 01:02:45,440
where we can receive witnesses from the Father,

1267
01:02:45,440 --> 01:02:47,960
from the Holy Ghost, by the through the Holy Ghost

1268
01:02:47,960 --> 01:02:50,600
of the divinity of Jesus Christ and His birth

1269
01:02:50,600 --> 01:02:53,760
and the importance of all of those things that we may hear

1270
01:02:53,760 --> 01:02:56,520
and that the testimonies of Anna and Simeon

1271
01:02:56,520 --> 01:02:59,080
and the wise men and the shepherds will resonate

1272
01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:04,080
and Samuel the Lamanite and Nephi and Alma.

1273
01:03:05,200 --> 01:03:07,920
All the prophets from Adam on.

1274
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:12,480
My goodness, it's my prayer that we strive

1275
01:03:12,480 --> 01:03:15,160
to have experiences of our own

1276
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:17,480
that we don't have to have experiences like theirs.

1277
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,160
Our experiences can be our own

1278
01:03:19,160 --> 01:03:22,120
and can be tailored and personal.

1279
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:25,880
Heavenly Father knows this personally and intimately

1280
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,560
and He will provide for us these same experiences.

1281
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:29,840
Thanks so much for being with us.

1282
01:03:29,840 --> 01:03:31,160
Dave, thank you.

1283
01:03:31,160 --> 01:03:32,000
Yeah, no, thank you.

1284
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:33,720
Merry Christmas everybody.

1285
01:03:33,720 --> 01:03:34,720
Merry Christmas to you.

1286
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:39,120
Merry, Merry Christmas and hope that we all can enjoy

1287
01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:44,120
the reason for the season and put our minds and focus

1288
01:03:44,760 --> 01:03:46,680
and our hearts, especially our hearts.

1289
01:03:46,680 --> 01:03:49,920
And give what gifts are you going to give the Savior

1290
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,680
this time of the year and my reflection on that is,

1291
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:55,600
well, we should give Him our heart.

1292
01:03:55,600 --> 01:03:58,200
And then I think the gift that He appreciates

1293
01:03:58,200 --> 01:04:03,200
maybe even the very most is to give Him our sins.

1294
01:04:03,320 --> 01:04:06,880
I agree, through repentance, through turning to Him

1295
01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:09,480
and taking upon us His name.

1296
01:04:09,480 --> 01:04:10,760
Thanks for being with us everybody.

1297
01:04:10,760 --> 01:04:13,800
We do hope that your Christmas season is wonderful.

1298
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:15,880
Please don't hesitate to share.

1299
01:04:15,880 --> 01:04:17,760
In fact, let me reword that.

1300
01:04:17,760 --> 01:04:20,000
We encourage you to share via email at

1301
01:04:20,000 --> 01:04:22,840
heredeemsusatgmail.com.

1302
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:25,280
Maybe share some of your insights around Christmas,

1303
01:04:25,280 --> 01:04:28,200
even some of your traditions that are Christ focused.

1304
01:04:28,200 --> 01:04:29,040
Thanks for being with us.

1305
01:04:29,040 --> 01:04:31,000
We look forward to being with you again next week

1306
01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:32,240
and until then be well.