Hey there everybody, welcome back.
Well Dave, here we are.
We're tackling our second episode on Christmas this week.
And I've been thinking a lot about this, you know.
I've been kind of out of town for the last couple of days
on a little vacation with Deb.
We go down to the national finals rodeo every year
and happens to be around my birthday.
And so there's just a lot of things.
What is your birthday, the 8th?
Yeah.
The 8th, I was thinking about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, and I watched some of that on cable
and thought, wow, Scott is in heaven.
I was.
Dad in Vegas watching rodeo.
That's right.
Because your heart of hearts, people should know it.
You're a cowboy.
That's right.
I am more comfortable in the dirt around horses
than just about anywhere else.
So well, that was a lot of fun.
But you know when we were down there with all of the Christmas
hustle and bustle and everything like that,
boy, it's in full bloom in Las Vegas, as you can well imagine.
But you know, even in Las Vegas, you know,
with all of the lights and the tinsel
and all of the commercialism and various things like that,
I was able to have some really tender conversations
with people that I love about the life of Jesus Christ
and his kind of venture into and wander
into the Christmas season where we celebrate his birth
and life and all that that entails.
I just had an overwhelming sense or feeling of gratitude
towards Jesus and Heavenly Father too.
You know, we're going to talk a little bit about that today,
about maybe the greatest gift was from Him,
from our Father in heavens.
Anyway.
That's sweet, Scott.
You know, I've kind of noticed over the years
that when we listen to Christmas music now on the radio,
which is going on many stations,
and we watch the television Christmas specials,
and I won't mention names.
But it seems as though less and less they
play the hymns of Christmas, the holy songs about Jesus.
And it's more about it's more about Christmas time
than it is about Christ.
You know what I mean?
It's more about the season than it is the reason.
I it's just kind of, I don't know, Scott.
We've just become so secular and becoming more and more
secular.
And this is not a scientific survey,
but it's just interesting to me listen to the radio
if I listen to it for, I don't know, a half hour or so
as I'm driving around that it's probably about seven or eight
to one, you know, that for every eight songs about Christmas
time, there'll be a song about the Savior.
Right.
And I watched a Christmas special lasted for an hour
last week, and there was only one song of the whole Christmas
special on TV that had anything to do with Jesus.
And I just, anyway, I hope that all of our listeners
are doing the best on their own personal playlists
to include even on.
I like this songs about Christmas time.
I like those, you know, chestnuts roasting on open fire.
I do too.
That's all good.
I love that.
And I love to hear Slaybell's radio.
And I like Rudolph even, and I like those songs.
But I think on our own personal playlist,
there ought to be probably one for one or one for two maybe,
at least, that we have more songs about Jesus playing
this time of year than we do just about the Christmas
time and the season.
One of the really neat things about living in the time
that we do, though, is you can create those playlists,
like I mentioned.
Right?
I mean, there are several platforms,
and I won't mention any of those either.
We don't endorse or any of that.
But, you know, there are several.
And you can go in there.
And I love to create, and I've got a few of them.
I mean, you mentioned, I love bluegrass Christmas music,
especially those that sing about Jesus.
Because, you know, those are all kind of in the heart
of the South, right?
Right?
The Bible built in there.
They do have a unique and just a beautiful relationship
and view of Jesus Christ, the Savior, and His birth.
And so many of those are just, they've warned me.
They've lived me.
You know, drama, Christmas.
And then, you know, what I really love
is, for example, on Sunday mornings,
Deb and I, we have the playlists that we play
on all of our speakers.
You know, the speakers that we have throughout the house
are all connected.
And we play instrumental Christmas music, you know,
from hymns and various things.
And I agree.
I love Christmas music, but I especially
love the Christmas music that draws me to him.
I love the Christmas music, like you said, you know,
that reminds me of times past and all the fun times that
are associated with Christmas.
Because, you know, this is a celebration.
This is a time of year when all things, all things
that are Christmas related, if we see them this way,
point us towards Jesus Christ.
Yeah.
And did we talk about that last time, some of the symbols?
No, we really didn't get into the symbols last time.
Maybe you need to review that with some of them.
But, you know, I found a new Christmas song this year.
OK.
It's called King Size Manger by Josh Turner, country.
Yeah, of course.
Singer.
I don't know if you know him.
I don't really know him.
But, wow, I loved that.
I just kind of stumbled onto that on some cable network
Christian television series.
Anyway, King Size Manger by Josh Turner.
There's so many good things out there
that we're not aware of.
And it's really important for us to just be more intentional
on not only what we see, what we feel,
but even what we listen to this time of year
and try to do better in focusing on the Savior.
It's really important how intentional we are towards the approach
of anything.
It's so easy, Scott, to get caught up in the secular.
You know, I mentioned, and we talked about that,
I was just down at the rodeo in Las Vegas.
And, you know, that's different.
A rodeo is a different experience than other sporting events.
Because, for this one reason, there
isn't a rodeo that I've ever been to where every person in the stands
and all the cowboys and all the participants
don't stand prior to even the singing of the national anthem
where we pray.
And invite Heavenly Father Spirit to be with us,
to protect those who are participating, and to provide
all of us with the.
And I really loved it this time, because at the end of the prayer,
they really focused on how that through the blood of Jesus Christ,
all these things are possible.
And this, that's awesome.
Yeah.
That's really great.
Well, today, I want to continue our discussion about Christmas
and the Savior.
And we kind of talked about some of the events last week.
I think we got Him born in a manger wrapped in swaddling
clothes, whether that was in a con in the middle of Bethlehem,
or whether that was in a limestone cave, which there are
so many of those that surround Bethlehem, the limestone caves
of Bethlehem.
You know, there are so many things
that we don't know really the details or specifics about.
But today, Scott is kind of one of my favorite things
to ponder.
And that is the witnesses, kind of the story in general,
and the witnesses that are Heavenly Father provided the world
in regards to His gift to the world and the birth of His Son.
So I'd just like to spend some time on that today.
And then maybe we can all have some time
to talk about Nephi's vision, amazing vision
of the condescension of God in first Nephi chapter 11.
I think that's such an important Christmas chapter.
And then maybe some of the symbols, too, if we have time.
So let's jump in and just talk about some of these witnesses,
Scott.
You know, when Jesus was born in Bethlehem,
I think it's interesting to reflect upon in a manger
that there must have been animals there
and that animals were chosen to be eyewitnesses of that event.
I think that's significant that even the creatures, God's
creatures, were witnesses to that.
And I think someday it'll be interesting
to see which of those animals were selected to be witnesses
and the importance of that.
And Joseph, of course, would have been a witness.
And Mary, her great witness and then her
magnificent, as she proclaims her gratitude to God in Luke
chapter 2, and who helped deliver the baby.
Maybe Joseph, but maybe there was a midwife.
Maybe there were others there.
We don't know.
Who did God provide to help this couple give birth to His Son?
There would have been those eyewitnesses there in the manger.
So I think that's the first group who would have seen it happen.
And then we have the lowly shepherds.
And you know, this week, as I've kind of been reading a little bit
about it, and I invite our listeners to do this,
is to go back and read.
I hope our listeners were able to listen to the first presidency
devotional.
I love the doctrine that's taught in those devotional,
especially by a member of the 12 or a member of the first
presidency.
President Nelson taught some great doctrine in this devotional
this year a few weeks ago.
But in 2020, in the Christmas devotional,
this is President Nelson.
So I've tried to go back since he was prophet
and read all of his Christmas devotional addresses, which
is a really great way, I think, to get kind of this spirit
of meaning of Christmas in our life,
and invite our listeners to consider doing that.
Go back and read all of the Christmas
devotional of President Nelson.
He doesn't speak in every year.
You know, sometimes it's President Eyring,
or President Oaks, or others.
But this is 2020.
His birth occurred in humble circumstances
among the animals.
So he points that out.
I think that's important.
There, the lamb of God, that's maybe one reason why
there were animals there, was born during Passover season
among animals being prepared for paschal sacrifice.
And one day he would be brought as a lamb to the slaughter.
He was both the lamb and the shepherd.
So he gives us an idea here of why, again, maybe animals
were important, that they be witnesses,
and why shepherds would be important, that they be witnesses.
And this seems pretty authoritative to me,
Scott, when he says, there the lamb of God
was born during Passover season.
Well, if President Nelson is saying that, believes that,
that would put it in April.
His birth would be sometime in April.
And again, I think I mentioned this last week.
So again, why it would be so crowded in Bethlehem,
that Jews from all over the world had come back,
not just for the census, but for Passover.
And it makes sense that Caesar would know that they came back
to Jerusalem for Passover, and that would be the perfect time
to do a census.
I just thought that was really interesting.
I think that's a statement of doctrine.
So these shepherds are probably watching over the paschal
lambs being prepared, used, sacrificed during the week
of the Passover, the great symbolism of that, Jesus
being the lamb of God and the good shepherd.
So the angels come, we read about this, of course,
in Luke chapter two, right, which there's
another set of witnesses, the angels themselves.
I often think about when I think about the angels,
I think, are these translated beings?
Is this the choir of the city of Enoch, which would make them
translated beings?
Or is this premortal spirits disembodied spirits?
Where was I when the birth of Jesus was taking place?
What were spirits doing in the premortal existence?
Were they viewing these events?
I often think about that, Scott.
So the choir that I think comes and becomes
kind of a witness themselves to the shepherds,
I think is really powerful.
And everyone reads this every Christmas.
But the angel of the Lord came upon them.
The glory of the Lord showed around about them.
We're talking about the shepherds, and they were sore afraid.
And the angels said unto them, fear not.
Fear not.
There it is again.
That's what the angel always starts with when he
appears to marry Joseph.
And now the shepherds, for behold,
I bring you good tidings of great joy,
which shall be to all people.
For unto you is born this day in the city of David,
which is Bethlehem, a savior, which is Christ the Lord.
And this shall be assigned unto you, shall find the babe,
wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger.
And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude
of the heavenly host, the choir praising God
and saying, glory to God in the highest and on earth, peace,
goodwill toward men.
And it came to pass as the angels were gone away from them
into heaven.
The shepherd said one to another, let us go now into Bethlehem.
I think we read that last week.
And they went and they saw.
And then they went out and started
to proclaim their witness to everyone that would listen to them.
That they had seen the Messiah.
The Holy Ghost would have had to have been with them for them
to be a witness and to witness of these things, Scott.
But what a powerful witness, the lowly shepherds.
They were close to where these events would have occurred.
They didn't have to go too far.
They didn't have to sacrifice too much.
It seemed like believing was easy for them.
And they became missionaries.
I, as we talk about these witnesses,
I want to just kind of compare their conditions
and circumstances and how many different kinds of witnesses
we have in the church today.
How many different kind of converts
we have in the different circumstances that they may be in.
Some people are born close to the church.
They see the prophets.
I don't know if it's any easier for them.
It might be actually harder for them to believe.
But we all have such different circumstances as witnesses
of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ and of Jesus himself.
Important for us, I think, to also consider and maybe
contemplate that in our own lives.
How do I witness?
Yeah.
How am I a witness?
Am I the shepherd that just saw the angel?
And once I've had that experience go out
and I'm willing to share it, I mean, with everybody around,
they left with some zeal, right?
And went out about and shared what they had seen and heard.
And quick to believe.
Yeah.
Not a lot of sacrifice involved.
Yeah.
And it says, and they did go now.
Yeah.
Let us go now.
It doesn't say, hey, hang on.
Let's debate this.
Let's figure out what's going on here.
Let's get the most current commentary on whether this
should be accurate or not.
They came with haste.
They did.
They came with haste.
And it wasn't hard for them to do that.
They just immediately did that.
It just seems easy for some people to accept the restoration,
the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.
And they do it without haste.
You know, I have a grandson, granddaughter,
in the mission field.
It's just interesting to me, the different.
And you remember as a missionary.
I remember as a missionary.
Some people you had to really work with.
You had to teach them for weeks.
It did not come easy for them.
There was great sacrifice for them.
And then there were others who were just, they were just ready.
They were just prepared.
And they immediately almost instantly believe.
And in haste, they're telling all of their friends and members
about what they've learned.
I mean, there's just so many different kinds of witnesses.
I like to think of the shepherds.
You know, the shepherds, they were not
of the upper class of society, right?
I mean, they were more of the poor.
They were in humble circumstances.
They were among the animals for a good part
of their lives in the fields.
So let's just kind of transfer that in today's world, right?
I mean, where do we go?
How do we find that kind of solace?
How do we find that kind of quiet?
Where are the places where we can go so contemplation can lead us
to experiences like that?
I know that there were those in that culture, in that society,
who were distracted, who were all the buzz
about the various things of the day and what was going on,
and so on.
And here are the shepherds.
They're in a spot where they have, their job is to look
after, in this case, the Paschal Lamb, which is a big job.
Yeah.
A very big job, you know, but they have that quiet,
that solitude, and those humble circumstances,
which kind of lean or land towards them
having those experiences, maybe better than potentially others.
Elder Holland even thought it was significant that it happened
in the middle of the night that many witnesses
come to individuals in the middle of the night,
that there's something about when the world rests,
when we shut down from the busyness of the day
and all the distractions during the day.
When everything's quiet.
I mean, you think about that.
I think many of our listeners can relate to this.
I mean, I think one of the most powerful witnesses
I've ever received was on my mission
in the middle of the night, you know, praying, searching.
There's just something about nighttime or early morning time
when it may be still dark, that these kind of witnesses come.
But that's one group, the shepherds, the lowly shepherds.
Another is the wise men, which God provided,
to be another set of witnesses.
These men are seem to be somewhat mysterious.
I think it may have been more than just three men
that we always associate three wise men
because of the three gifts, Gold, Frank, and St. St. Mer.
We read about them in Matthew chapter two, actually.
Scott and maybe we can just go over there.
And I can't wait until we can learn more about them.
I know the world has even tried to name them
and has told us about their race and their color
and believe that they were Persian
or that they were mystics or that they were Magi
or magicians.
I don't know, we know so little about these wise men
or even how many there were.
I like to think that maybe there were,
as Elder McConkey says, maybe there were 12.
Maybe it was a quorum.
They must have been believers,
perhaps even before the star appeared.
But they were looking for the star.
They were looking for the prophecies to be fulfilled.
They were at least believers in the prophecies.
And they had studied the scriptures.
And Elder McConkey felt strongly
that they must have been Jews
because the Jews have the scriptures.
I don't know about any of that,
but I just know that I'm really thankful
for the Joseph Smith translation
of the King James Version of the Bible
in Matthew chapter two,
because of what the prophet Joseph Smith
was inspired to add to this.
So in verse one.
And now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea
in the days of Herod the King,
behold there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
saying, where is he that is born king of the Jews?
For we have seen his star in the east
and are come to worship him.
Okay, so verse two is really great.
And it says that they came to worship him.
But when you read, let's read this verse again, Scott,
when you get to the little footnote A there,
right by the word where, before you read where,
go down to the JST and read what is added there.
And now when Jesus was born in Bethlehem of Judea
in the days of Herod the King,
behold there came wise men from the east to Jerusalem,
saying, and this is where we transition, saying,
where is the child that was born the Messiah of the Jews?
Okay, so what did they know?
They knew that he was the Messiah.
To know that Jesus is the Christ,
to know that he's the anointed one,
to know that this is the savior and redeemer of the world,
they would have to have the Holy Ghost.
And to have the gift of the Holy Ghost,
they must have had the gospel.
It must have been either a special dispensation.
It could have been dispersed,
you know, the dispersion of the Jews.
There were Jews all over the Eastern world.
And we know that there were even Jews in the Americas
because we had a group of people over here
living the law of Moses with the migration of Lehi
and his family.
So there were Jews all over the world
because of the, you know, captivity of Israel
and lost 10 tribes.
I like to think of these individuals,
whatever tribe they were from,
whether they were from Judah or from another tribe,
that this must have been a special dispensation
of individuals.
I like to think of them even as priesthood holders,
whether it's a quorum or not, I don't know.
But I think they have the gift of the Holy Ghost, Scott.
I think they knew.
I think that must have been something like
what was happening here in America.
We know that there were signs in America.
We know that Nephi, the son of Nephi,
who was the son of Helaman.
I mean, you can read all about this
in Third Nephi in the Book of Mormon.
We know that they knew about the signs
and that Jesus would be born.
And we know they had the priesthood.
And we know they had the gift of the Holy Ghost,
even though they were still living the law of Moses.
Whoever these people are,
they're probably the same sort of situation
as the people in the Book of Mormon.
I believe these wise men are like the Nephis
and Helamans and Almans of the Book of Mormon.
They must have, someday we'll read from their records.
Someday we'll know more about this.
But I know this, that if they knew Jesus was the Messiah,
not just King of the Jews, but the Messiah,
and they came to worship him,
they had the gift of the Holy Ghost.
And if they had the gift of the Holy Ghost,
they must have been prophets,
or priesthood at least.
So they come and they offer the gifts are mentioned,
the three gifts,
they are, Herod says, go find him and come back
and tell me where he is, because Herod's intent,
of course, is to kill anybody that would cause any uprising
or think of themselves or anybody else think of them
as being the King of the Jews.
So they, it says in verse nine,
when they had heard the King, they departed,
and lo the star, which they saw in the east,
went before them,
till it came and stood over where the young child was.
It's so interesting how these individuals
had to make such a great sacrifice.
I mean, let's think about this group of witnesses.
They had to make a great sacrifice to come and see him.
And to be eyewitnesses of him,
they had to make a great sacrifice.
They'd waited a long time,
even though they knew the prophecies,
they desired to be eyewitnesses,
and God wanted them to be eyewitnesses.
And a star led them right to where he was.
It wasn't probably just, it doesn't sound like to me,
the star was just kind of a one night thing.
It sounds like to me, even though I don't know for sure,
that this star actually just led them right
to where he was located.
And I don't know what that star was.
Some people think of it as an asteroid comet.
I don't know, it's interesting to-
That's kind of the way it reads, right?
It says that the star, which they saw in the east,
went before them till it came and stood over
where the young child was.
I guess it could have been,
if you're driving along in the car and you look at the moon,
the moon can follow you.
And I guess that's possible, right?
That the star was just,
but it almost sounds like that the star went
and was over him.
I know.
That's how it sounds to me too.
And then verse 11 says,
and when they were come into the house,
well, first I gotta read verse 10,
when they saw the star,
they rejoiced with exceeding great joy.
And when they were come into the house,
they saw the young child, not the babe,
the young child with Mary his mother,
and fell down and worshiped him.
And when they opened their treasures,
they presented unto him gifts,
gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Well, and then they were warned in a dream,
not to go back to Erad,
which is another side of personal revelation
that God gave them revelation.
These were righteous, holy men.
They're not part of a cult.
I don't see them at all as being like the Magi
or Mystics or whatever.
These are inspired men who have the spirit.
It's interesting that they come to the house.
They don't go to the manger.
They're not there.
I know that's kind of the tradition
and I love that tradition too.
And yet it must have been months after he was born
that they finally are able to show up and present him gifts.
So I just think it's interesting to contrast.
And they must have been wealthy.
They must have had money.
They are again, this great sacrifice.
They make gold, frankincense and myrrh.
Well, none of those were cheap.
And all of them, I think could have been symbolic,
you know, of his king.
Some like to think that the myrrh was symbolic
of even his death, that that's part of the spice
that you anoint the dead,
that they were pointing to his death and reservoir.
I don't know really about that,
but I know that to bring these gifts,
that they were prominent.
These are not just lowly shepherds
who didn't have much to give.
So anyway, different to contrast these witnesses
of shepherds and wise men, Scott.
And again, our listeners and myself and you
ought to think about, you know,
where am I in this list of witnesses?
You know, was it easy for me to believe
that I not have to make much of a sacrifice
or that I paid a price, a real price
to become a witness and eyewitness of the Savior?
You just brought something up and alluded to this.
You know, where was I?
How would I respond?
What would be my response?
And that's something that I consider every year.
And it's different.
This year, I think my response would be
a little more positive than potentially
it would have been in years past,
just because of my constant drawing closer to the Savior
through the Holy Ghost, through putting on the atonement
of Jesus Christ, through the experiences
that Heavenly Father affords me each week,
each year, each month, whatever.
But I think about that, you know?
And in my mind's eyes, sometimes I just kind of,
as I'm pondering these things, I think even about
how would I have even received the shepherd?
You know, would I have been in tune enough
or would my life been aligned enough
that even when the shepherd came
and declared these great things to me,
would I have been able to fill the spirit and believe that?
You know, would I recognize the healing properties
behind the gifts that the wise men bring?
You know, that's really what they are.
You think about that, you know,
gold, frankincense, and mur, you know, gold, pure metal.
One of the purest of all metals, right?
You think of frankincense and mur,
you already made the allusion to mur,
but you know, frankincense has great healing properties too.
That's been believed over the years
and still proven out, I think, today, actually.
But you know, so these things come to my mind
as I think about those things.
I always, one of the things that I try to do
in all of my approaches towards things spiritual,
but this especially, is where am I?
How would I react?
How did this apply to me?
And how does this, how can this change my life
and what do I need to do to allow it to do that?
Yeah, that's a good pattern, good practice, Scott.
Well, these gifts that the wise men offered
were not, have only been maybe symbolic
and part of their worship, but it would have been
very practical.
I mean, God was helping this holy family,
Joseph, Mary, and the Christ child
to be able to take off and finance their way to Egypt.
Because right after the wise men leave the house
and witness and present their gifts,
they're warned in a dream not to return to Herod,
and when they don't come back to Herod,
then he has a fit and you know, it's interesting
that even Caesar said about Herod that it would be better
to be Herod's pig than his son,
because Herod had killed his own sons.
So he wouldn't kill the pig because he wanted to
act like he was Jewish and you know, can't eat pigs
so you won't kill a pig, but he'll kill a son.
And this Herod is so obsessed, God, and I think,
not just obsessed but possessed, maybe crazy,
that he orders what's been called the slaughter
of the innocence, the slaughter of the infants.
And it's recorded in Matthew chapter two
that he had all of those in Bethlehem
and in the coast thereof,
any child who was too and under to be slaughtered.
I have no idea how many that would have been.
I know John the Baptist would have maybe been
among those who were threatened.
And actually we learned in the teachings
of the prophet Joseph Smith again, because of the restoration,
we learned that Zacharias was slaughtered
because of this event, that somehow the Herod
and those who worked for him knew about the birth
of John the Baptist and something about the miraculous birth
of John the Baptist and the sign that was given
to Zacharias and so they came to Zacharias
and they wanted to know where John the Baptist was
because they wanted to kill him, the baby John the Baptist.
And Zacharias would not tell them where he was
and apparently Elizabeth had taken the baby
and gone into hiding and so when Zacharias would not
tell them where his own infant son was at,
so they could slaughter that child,
they slaughtered Zacharias instead.
So this would have been just an awful, awful time.
I know our hearts go out to the Palestinians
and the slaughter of the infants
that are taking place right now.
Anyway, I just think, wow, this must have been,
just think of the evil and the blood
that must have been shed and running in the streets
from the slaughter of the innocence of children.
But again, Joseph received a dream as well
and was told by the Lord to go into Egypt.
So he took Mary and he took the child
and had enough from the gifts given to him by the wise men
to flee and be protected from all of this
and they go to Egypt.
And we don't know how long they were in Egypt.
I think it might have been for years, maybe eight years,
maybe before he comes back and is presented at the temple
and maybe they go to the temple
when they're on their way back to Nazareth.
But anyway, that's an interesting part of the story
that I look forward to receiving more details
and specifics about.
The final group of, well, not the final,
but one of the major, one of my favorite,
the witnesses in this story are two individuals
who were in the temple.
And 40 days after Jesus was born,
as good Jewish boys, especially would be,
was that the firstborn child, the firstborn son
of a couple would be presented in the temple
and that there would be a sacrifice there
and that he would be consecrated to the Lord
as a good Jewish boy.
And this took place and it was 40 days after his birth.
So if we go by his birth being around Passover time,
this would have been sometime probably in May
when Joseph and Mary take their Jesus, the child,
40 day old child to the temple.
And there in the temple, we read back in Luke chapter two
again, we read of the wit, these two special witnesses,
this older man and this older woman.
I don't know what their connection is,
but Simeon is there and Simeon has been told again
by the Holy Ghost.
So Simeon, a believer has the Holy Ghost
and we pick it up in verse,
well, one thing's interesting in verse 24,
and to offer a sacrifice according to that,
which is said in the law of the Lord,
a pair of turtle doves or two young pigeons.
This tells us something about the sacrifice.
You could give a burnt offering of an animal
or a sin offering of a bird, Scott,
and they offered just two turtle doves,
which was according to the law,
if you were really destitute, if you were really poor.
So it tells us something about the kind of temporal condition
of Joseph and Mary and how poor they were,
how lowly they were to offer two turtle doves
or two young pigeons.
And then verse 25 reads,
and behold, there was a man in Jerusalem
whose name was Simeon and the same man was just and devout.
Love that description.
Waiting for the consolation of Israel.
I love that title of Jesus,
the consolation of Israel.
And the Holy Ghost was upon him.
Verse 26, and it was revealed unto him by the Holy Ghost
that he should not see death before he had seen
the Lord's Christ.
And he came by the Spirit into the temple.
And when the parents brought him the child Jesus
to do for him after the custom of the law,
then took he, then took he, him up in his arms
and blessed God and said, Lord,
thou letst thou thy servant depart in peace
according to thy word, for mine eyes have seen
thy salvation, which thou hast prepared
before the face of all people,
a light to lighten the Gentiles
and the glory of thy people Israel.
And Joseph and his mother, Mary, marveled at those things
which were spoken of him.
And Simeon blessed them and said unto Mary,
his mother, behold, this child is set for the fall.
Or we might think of that he is appointed
to overcome the fall and rising again of many in Israel,
meaning the rising, the healing in his wings of Israel,
the salvation of Israel.
And for a sign which shall be spoken against,
verse 35, yea, a sword shall pierce through thine own soul
also, alluding to the prophecy of a sword
being piercing the side of Jesus when he's crucified
and warning Mary that it's going to be like the sword
going through her.
I mean, it's going to be really painful for Mary
to raise this boy.
That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.
Well, I love those inspired verses written by Luke.
And we believe, Scott, that Luke's source for this
would have been the mother of Jesus Mary herself
who shared with Luke these events and these words.
And this Simeon, what is, this is another kind of
circumstance or set of witnesses who are in the house
of the Lord waiting upon the Lord.
They don't go anywhere to go see Jesus, he comes to them.
They're just engaged in the work of the Lord in the temple
in offering whatever sacrifices they can there to the Lord.
And Jesus is brought to them, he comes to them,
fulfilling the prophecy that they would see him
before they died.
So that's Simeon.
Any thoughts on Simeon?
You want to talk about Anna?
One of the kind of, you know, there's really what,
five essential parts when we do the rest of the podcast,
and one of those essential parts that we talk about
is faith.
We talk about faith and the different levels of faith.
We have faith, we have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ,
we have faith in the name of Christ.
And all of those things as we increase in faith move up.
Well, think about this, if you had a witness,
I'll put it in first person.
If I had a witness of the Holy Ghost, the Jesus Christ
that I would see the Savior, right?
What did he call him here?
The consolation of Israel before my death, you know,
I would wonder.
I don't know.
I mean, maybe my faith would be pure enough.
Maybe my faith would be deep enough,
but imagine Simeon's faith.
He didn't seem surprised.
His response was, holy cow, it's real.
I can't believe this is actually real.
You know, his response was much more reverent,
much more worshipful than any of that.
You know, here is, and he witnesses,
because he's been born witness through the spirit
of the Holy Ghost, the same method that we're all born
witness of, the divinity of Jesus Christ.
He had received that, he recognized it,
he embraced it fully and look at the experience
that not only he had, but that we all get to have
because of his experience and the recording of it.
I wish we had more detail.
I wish we had his first person.
I look forward to maybe one day visiting with Simeon
and just asking him, what was that like for you?
And not only that, but give me insight into what led up
to your faith in having that,
even before he was presented to you.
Really, really.
And maybe Simeon felt like his best opportunity
to have that prophecy fulfilled,
that promise of seeing him before he died,
would take place in the house of the Lord, in the temple.
So he was at the temple and it's just interesting, right?
You know, to compare shepherds go to the manger,
wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger,
think of the humble circumstances, become witnesses.
The wise men go to the house, they go to the house,
something sacred about the manger scene,
something sacred about that house scene,
sacred nature of the holy family in the home.
Right. Right.
And then Simeon sees him in the temple.
Yeah.
It is interesting, again, the different circumstances
and the different, the many, all the different places
got where we can be a witness,
where we can see the face of the Lord,
where we can see his hands in our life, hear his voice
and be a witness of him.
So Anna, one of my favorite witnesses,
there was one Anna, verse 36 in Luke two, a prophetess.
She's called a prophetess of the tribe of Asher.
She was of great age, had lived with a husband
seven years from her virginity.
So I don't know, maybe that would put her,
maybe around in her 20s when her husband dies
and she was a widow of about four score in four years.
So I know the Catholics actually celebrate Anna
as being 84 when this happens.
But as I read this, she was a widow for 84 years
after she was married.
I think she could be a hundred years older, Morse God.
I don't know.
I don't think it's, you know, nothing definitive here,
but she's old, especially for those times.
I mean, I think the Jewish lifestyle time of people
at the time of Jesus for most people were around 50
or even in their 40s.
She's old, she's a hundred, maybe more, maybe a little less.
She was a widow of about four score in four years,
which departed not from the temple.
I love this description of her.
She departed not from the temple,
but served God with fastings and prayers night and day.
And she coming in that instant gave thanks, gave thanks,
like and likewise unto the Lord and spake of him
to all them that looked for redemption in Jerusalem.
I just think that's a really short,
but really sweet description of Anna and her witnessing
of the Savior, witnessing not only of him,
but of the redemption of Jerusalem and all of Israel.
So I'd like to know more about Anna,
but there again, she would not depart from the temple.
I don't know if there was any prophecy
in regards to her experience.
If she knew that she would see him,
but when she did see him, she knew,
and that experience happened best for her in the temple.
So we have all of these witness, Scott,
that are contained in the story of the birth of Jesus
in the Bible, and we have other witnesses,
many other witnesses that I'm sure are not recorded
and some that are recorded, that are maybe scriptures
that we'll read from sometime in the millennium.
There must have been other special dispensation
and other groups of the tribes of Israel
who looked for these prophecies and knew that
the time had been delivered and that Jesus was born.
And one of those is in the Book of Mormon,
the special dispensation of Nephites and Lamanites
in the Book of Mormon.
We go to maybe third Nephi chapter one.
We have this amazing story that Samuel the Lamanite
had prophesied and told the people,
just come out and told the people, you got five years,
and in five years, the sign's gonna be given,
and this is the sign, he details on what the sign is.
The sign is there will be a day and a night and a day,
but no darkness.
There will be no darkness at night.
You'll have, I don't know if the sun didn't go down
or the stars were so bright,
or I don't know how that really happened,
but that there would be no night.
And he says, you got five years,
and when that happens, you'll know that Jesus is born
and that the prophecies have been fulfilled.
Well, five years comes and goes
and the people are so doubtful of such little faith
that many of them or most of them even said,
okay, so if it doesn't happen,
we're gonna kill those who believe it is going to happen.
They're ludicrous and we're gonna kill them.
And so that's the circumstances we find Nephi,
son of Nephi, who's the son of Eli, or son of Helaman,
and Nephi prays and he prays all night,
and the Lord speaks to him.
Let's just go to, I just think this is so sweet
that Nephi hears the voice of the Lord, doesn't see him.
He will see him when he appears to him 33 years later,
and his resurrection, he'll become one of the 12 Nephi apostles,
but in the third Nephi chapter one,
we read where the Lord speaks to him.
So they're going to put them to death,
and he, verse 12 says in third Nephi one,
it came to pass that he cried mightily into the Lord
all that day, and behold, the voice of the Lord
came unto him saying, I mean, this is so sweet,
the spirit, I don't know how this revelation was received.
He said it's the voice of the Lord,
it could be the Holy Ghost, speaking the voice of the Lord,
or maybe it could even be an angel.
I'm not sure, maybe it's the Lord himself,
who is in the womb of Mary,
but he could speak to him as well, I suppose.
Verse 13, here's the voice of the Lord to Nephi.
Lift up your head and be of good cheer.
That's so awesome.
Be of good cheer, first thing he tells him.
In other words, don't fear, be of good cheer.
For behold, the time is at hand,
and on this night shall the sign be given,
and on the morrow come I into the world.
So whoever it is, speaking in first person,
to show unto the world that I will fulfill all that
which I have caused to be spoken
by the mouth of my holy prophets.
It seems that to the Lord, the Savior,
it was, this is really important to him,
that one of the reasons he's coming
is not just to be our Savior and Redeemer,
I think that's the primary reason,
but it's also to fulfill the words of the prophets.
Behold, I come unto my own to fulfill all things
which I have made known unto the children of men
from the foundation of the world,
and to do the will both of the Father and of the Son,
of the Father because of me,
and of the Father because of my flesh.
And behold, the time is at hand,
and this night shall the sign be given.
Well, the sign was given,
many fell down to the earth as if they were dead
and thought it was over for them.
It says that the more part of them,
which like duh, the more part of them believed,
I mean, how could they not, right?
A day and a night and a day and there's no darkness,
how could they not believe?
So the more part of them did believe,
but many of them would have fallen away.
So here's another group of witnesses, Scott,
another group of, not just Nephi,
who actually hears the voice of the Lord,
but these individuals who see these signs and they believe.
I don't know how long that lasts.
It seems like for most of them,
it doesn't last all that long.
A year, two years, it seems like a few years later,
by about three or four years later,
it says that most of them have fallen away.
They no longer believe.
And that, unfortunately, 33 years later,
after the sign's given,
of course, the incredible destruction
that happens in the Americas.
And many of those individuals would have no doubt
maybe been some of those who had actually seen the sign,
given, testified of, prophesied of,
by Samuel the Lamanite,
many of those who were maybe destroyed in those cities
would have been those individuals who had seen the sign,
who had fallen down, who had believed,
but had fallen away,
because they had never received the real witness
and testimony of the Holy Ghost.
It seems to me, Scott, that's the key
in these witnesses and the difference between the witnesses
is are they seeing signs?
Are they just believing because they see signs?
Or are they believing because of revelation
and because they have the gift of the Holy Ghost?
And I hope our listeners can just ponder about that
and think about where are they at
in their witness of the Savior this Christmas time?
Have they received the witness of the Holy Ghost?
Because that's ultimately the one
that seems to make the difference in all of these.
I'm just gonna take a second on this,
because you used the word received, right?
And the word received means that we take action.
We can't just passively be in our lives and receive.
It requires effort on our part to receive.
And it is a gift, it's not something you were.
The gift comes through what?
Broken heart, contrite spirit,
aligning our lives with Him.
And through that alignment, then the gift comes, right?
And it's work, but it's a different work,
as Adam Miller would say, a completely different work.
It's working nonetheless.
But that work to receive would have required them to,
and it requires us today, to not just rest on our laurels,
that when that witness comes,
that we continually take action
to continually have that witness reinserted into our lives.
And there's a lesson for me there, for those people.
I mean, I wonder where I would have been.
I like to hope that I would have been one of those
that would have also received Him in the beginning
and during the Great Destruction.
That would later come, but those are things
that I think are important for each of us to consider.
Yeah, how sweet.
Well, Nephi hears the voice, and Nephi becomes so powerful.
I think this Nephi, in third Nephi,
and you wanna learn more about him, read chapter seven.
This Nephi became such a powerful witness
that those who heard him could not disbelieve him.
Maybe they didn't believe him,
maybe he didn't change their life.
But this Nephi, who the Lord had spoken to in chapter one,
by chapter seven, he's such a powerful missionary
that angels attend to him daily,
and that when he testifies, people cannot disbelieve him.
I think he's one of the greatest missionaries.
I wish we knew more about his missionary experiences
or stories about him, but I think he must be
one of the most powerful missionaries and prophets
and testators in the Book of Mormon of the Savior.
So all of the different witnesses,
well, that leads us, I just wanna spend a moment
on the condescension of God in first Nephi chapter one,
because I think this may be one of the most,
besides Luke two, maybe one of the most
Christmassy scripture chapters in all the standard works
is Nephi's vision when he's caught away by the Spirit
in the top of the high mountain,
he wants to see the Spirit, the Spirit,
this is the Holy Ghost, Scott, speaking of the Holy Ghost,
it says, the Spirit of the Lord appears to him.
Now, some people think that may actually be
the pre-mortal Christ.
I seems like to me most of the prophets,
except the fact that the Spirit of the Lord here
is the Holy Ghost.
I remember Mary and G Romney, LeGrand Richards,
and many others in general conference have said that
and have actually said that this is one of the few
appearances of the Holy Ghost to individuals in the flesh.
I mean, men on the earth, mortal men,
that the Holy Ghost appeared as a spirit to these men.
And it even says in this chapter that he spoke
to Nephi face to face.
Well, if that's the Holy Ghost, then we have a experience
where others have seen actually the Spirit
of the Holy Ghost.
Well, the Holy Ghost appears to Nephi
after carrying him to the top of the high mountain
and ask him, what do you desire?
And he says, I desire to know what my father saw.
I want to see the dream, the tree of life, the iron rod.
I want to know more about that.
I want to see what he saw and know the meaning
of these things.
And the Spirit of the Lord asked him,
do you believe in the words of your father?
And he says, you know I do.
And he says, okay, do you believe us in the Son
of the Most High?
And he says he does.
And after he says that, he sees the tree.
It seems really clear to me, that's in verse six and seven.
It seems really clear to me, Scott,
that the angel is, or the Spirit of the Lord,
sorry, the angel hasn't come yet.
The Spirit of the Lord, the Holy Ghost says,
okay, so the tree of life,
the thing that symbolizes the love of God
is the Son of God.
The tree of life is the Son of God.
The condescension of God.
The coming down to earth of God to Father,
his Son, by a virgin named Mary.
And the gift of the Father to the world
in the form of his Son.
For God so loved the world, right, John chapter three.
For God so loved the world,
that he gave his only begotten Son.
This is the real story of Christmas, Scott,
is the condescension of God,
who is symbolized by the tree of life,
seen by Lehi, Nephi, and I'm sure many others
that we may or may not have a record of.
And the Holy Ghost speaks to Nephi,
it says in verse 11, face to face.
And he spakeeth unto me as a man speaketh with another.
And he was in the form of a man.
Then an angel appears and the angel says unto him, look.
And he looks and he sees this city of Nazareth.
He sees the virgin.
He sees the heavens were opened.
This is the closest the Father wants us to know
about how Jesus was fathered by him.
And a virgin most beautiful and fair above all of the virgins.
And he said unto him, knowest thou the condescension of God?
Nephi's response is so classic.
After the angel asked him that, Nephi says,
I said unto him, I know that he loved his children.
Nevertheless, I do not know the meaning of all things.
Isn't that awesome?
I love that because I think back to Elder Holland.
You know, when Elder Holland gave his talk,
let's focus on what we do know, right?
So he's focusing on, I do know that he loves me,
but I want to know more.
And then everything that he does
is because he loves the world.
I mean, that kind of goes to 2 Nephi 26.
Everything the Lord does,
he does because he loves the world.
And you know what, that can answer a lot of questions
and certainly help us overcome a lot of challenges
and afflictions in our lives.
God is to know, no matter what,
God's love is constant, unchanging, eternal.
And that he loves me no matter what.
I just, that may be the most important thing to know.
And the most, maybe most important thing to focus
on this Christmas season and every season of the year
is that God loves me.
I mean, that's the great message of the Christmas seasons,
God, is the condescension of God
and the love of God in the form of his son.
Well, the angel walks him through the process,
walks him through this amazing vision in verse 21.
The angel had told him to look and he looks
and the angel said unto me,
behold the Lamb of God,
yea, even the son of the eternal father, exclamation mark.
I often think about how Joseph Smith,
when he translated this,
how he knew to put an exclamation mark there
or whoever put the punctuation mark there.
Whether Joseph told Oliver Cowdery to do that
or Oliver Cowdery knew to do that by the spirit.
But I think that's an important exclamation mark.
I actually circle all the exclamation marks
in the Book of Mormon, Scott.
When there's an exclamation mark in the Book of Mormon,
I think that's important.
And there's one there in verse 21,
behold the Lamb of God, yea, even the son
of the eternal father, exclamation mark.
Knowest thou the meaning of the tree
which thy father saw?
Verse 22.
And I answered to him saying, yea, yea, I do know.
I know, I know.
The tree is the love of God,
which Shaddeth itself abroad in the hearts
of the children of men,
wherefore it is the most desirable above all things.
And he spake unto me saying,
the angel said, yes, you're right Nephi,
it is the most desirable thing,
and the most joyous to the soul.
I wonder who this angel is.
Is this Gabriel?
Is this the same angel who appeared to the shepherds
and who said joy to the world, the Lord has come?
Is this the same angel who told them all not to fear,
but to have joy, to cheer, to be of good cheer?
Is this that, is this Gabriel?
Who is this angel?
I'd love to know more about that.
Well, this whole chapter goes through
and talks about not just the birth of Jesus Christ,
but evidence of the love of God
because he sacrifices his life.
And that there are apostles called
and they sacrifice their life.
I just think our listeners should read
this Christmas season, first Nephi chapter 11, Scott.
I think again, it's one of the most Christmassy
of all chapters in the Book of Mormon.
And every time I read the first Nephi chapter 11,
I feel closer to my Savior and I feel the Holy Ghost,
and I become one of the witnesses of those events, Scott.
I'm a witness of the events of the first Christmas,
and pray that all of our listeners
will become a part of that group
and feel the Holy Ghost bear witness
that those events are true.
Even though we may not have been there
and may have not been eyewitnesses,
I know that Anna and Simeon, I know the wise men
and the shepherds and those who were present knew,
and I know and you can know too.
And I hope that we'll do that.
And reading first Nephi chapter 11
may be one of the ways for you to receive that witness.
It's our deepest desire that each of us have the ability
to draw up on those witnesses ourselves.
I think that it's important to each of us potentially
to have that experience or experiences like unto that
where we can receive witnesses from the Father,
from the Holy Ghost, by the through the Holy Ghost
of the divinity of Jesus Christ and His birth
and the importance of all of those things that we may hear
and that the testimonies of Anna and Simeon
and the wise men and the shepherds will resonate
and Samuel the Lamanite and Nephi and Alma.
All the prophets from Adam on.
My goodness, it's my prayer that we strive
to have experiences of our own
that we don't have to have experiences like theirs.
Our experiences can be our own
and can be tailored and personal.
Heavenly Father knows this personally and intimately
and He will provide for us these same experiences.
Thanks so much for being with us.
Dave, thank you.
Yeah, no, thank you.
Merry Christmas everybody.
Merry Christmas to you.
Merry, Merry Christmas and hope that we all can enjoy
the reason for the season and put our minds and focus
and our hearts, especially our hearts.
And give what gifts are you going to give the Savior
this time of the year and my reflection on that is,
well, we should give Him our heart.
And then I think the gift that He appreciates
maybe even the very most is to give Him our sins.
I agree, through repentance, through turning to Him
and taking upon us His name.
Thanks for being with us everybody.
We do hope that your Christmas season is wonderful.
Please don't hesitate to share.
In fact, let me reword that.
We encourage you to share via email at
heredeemsusatgmail.com.
Maybe share some of your insights around Christmas,
even some of your traditions that are Christ focused.
Thanks for being with us.
We look forward to being with you again next week
and until then be well.