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Hey there everybody, this is Scott one who apologized in advance of the podcast today

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We have less than perfect sound quality

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Unfortunately, there were some technical issues that we weren't able to become aware of until after we had all

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recorded and parted ways

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Unfortunately due to timing issues and scheduling issues. There's just no way we have to get back into it

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I've done the best I can to normalize the sound. I think it should be acceptable and I hope you enjoy. Thanks for your understanding

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Music

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Hey there everybody and welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. Scott and David Durfey here

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As always excited to do this again. How you doing Dave?

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Well the room's a lot better than it usually is when it's just you and me in the room. Yeah, yeah, we have a little surprise

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guest today

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We have Deb Durfey with us. Hi Deb

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It's good to have Deb. Deb's obviously my my sweet

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Eternal companion. We're super excited to have her just worked out with her work schedule that she's able to be with us today

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And we plan on doing a couple of special things today's works excited to have her here with us before we get rolling though

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Just want to do a quick shout out and if first off

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We've received a couple of really great emails lately and I want to just encourage you to continue to do that

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You can send us emails questions. Whatever at he redeems us at gmail.com. He redeems us at gmail.com

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And so we'll be getting to some of those questions that are still there shortly and

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So stay tuned for that

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All right, so here we go Dave we last week kind of talked about a little bit more as we concluded our discussion around the fall of Adam and Eve and

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Today we're gonna move into yes, we are a little exciting Christmas episode

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Coming birth of Jesus, but before we do Scott I

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It is just really impossible for me to overstate the importance of

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understanding the need for regaemer

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Which also means understanding?

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the reality of the fall and I

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I think I get more positive feedback from family friends and others of

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on our podcast on our lessons on the fall Scott and

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Then maybe any other any other podcasts that we do because I just don't think people

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will

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Understand the and appreciate the the reality part of this is being part of the father's plan

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I mean, I I know we invited all of our listeners to to give thanks to God for the fall

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but I'm not sure everyone has and

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Even if they have or haven't I'm not sure they all really feel it or believe it and I just

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Again cannot

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Overstate how importance?

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It is to understand the need for redeemer it was chapter 3 in

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Jesus the Christ when I was a young missionary that completely flipped my life and approach

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To living the gospel and to repentance

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You know, I I think I've shared my experience

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I for months was trying to repent and didn't feel forgiven didn't feel forgiven didn't feel forgiven and the reason I didn't

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Because I did not understand

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That it wasn't through my efforts. It wasn't through the church. It wasn't through

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You know, I needed Jesus and I did not understand my need for Jesus and I think if you if you miss

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understanding

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More fully the fall you you you will not understand as fully as you need to

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and feel enough gratitude for a

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Savior and redeemer

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So we we last week

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I know we gave the seven points of the importance of understanding the doctrine of the fall

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one of the three pillars of the

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plan of redemption

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But I just wanted to just say one more time

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that

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Because I've been thinking about it all week. It's been on my mind all week

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It's just so critical Scott that we do not base our identity

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based upon the things that we do in

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mortality

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But that we base our identity upon who we are

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which includes our pre-mortal existence and

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Our potential to become like God

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so in a

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You know present Nelson desert books, but I knew kind of devotional book

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And you can read a quote from present Nelson for each day of the year and

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Someone shared this one with me recently

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Based upon our discussion on who you are and this this is for present Nelson

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I think it's for December till December 6th. He wrote in his book

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your true identity is

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established

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by

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and becoming the person you can become

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the person God wants you to be and

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Skipping just a little bit he says

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From an eternal perspective

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You really

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Who you really are is far more important

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Than is what you did so one more time from an eternal perspective

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Who you really are is far more important than is what you did?

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And I just think we really have a problem in our culture

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not just in the church, but in our in our culture of

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Have accomplishment in our culture of success and that we we base our identity upon what we do and

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And that's it. That says

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It's not just a mistake. I think it's a tool of the devil

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that we do that because

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Scott I know people, you know people we all know people

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That

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Act out in some pretty horrible ways

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But I'm I've lived long enough, you know, they are second-poor

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This is all this that's not necessarily who they really are

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That's not who their spirit. That's not what their spirit is. That's not who there's their spirit

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That who they were meant to become

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From an eternal perspective

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It is so much more important to know who you are

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Than to focus on what you do

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Because what you do is not necessarily who you are and this is this is so important for

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me for you for all of our listeners to get beyond

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the obvious the actions of others and ourselves and to just focus upon our eternal

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identity and

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Further to know that we have a savior who covers

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those things that we do for whatever reason whatever

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motives or

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the survival of the fittest things that we do to survive the world to get through the world or

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because of things in our past or

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Conditions that we live in and all the other things that God takes into account

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The ultimate most important knowledge one can have that makes a difference is

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Knowing who they are and focusing less on what they do. I'm not saying that our actions are not important

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I'm not saying that what we do does not eventually determine who we become. I know there's a connection there

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But again from present Nelson from an eternal perspective. It's just so much more important

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So I hope that people will never base their identity

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Based upon the sins and temptations

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They experience in a fallen hellish world or based upon even the sins

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They commit in a fallen hellish world. That is not your identity

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The thing about that is is I can see that it's a problem, you know and even elder or excuse me

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Even president Nelson says what they did

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You know, which puts it past tense. Yeah, right?

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Yeah, but here's the thing, you know and I deal with this on a semi-regular basis in in the rooms of recovery

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I had a guy call me just the other day who is struggling

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His words not mine more than I ever have with this particular drug and with this particular addiction

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And he said but I

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Need to get to a meeting I need to get working steps against it because he he actually kind of did

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See who he was and didn't let any of that get in the way, right?

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Even in present tense not did not did but do what we're doing not what we did but what we're doing

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But you but but is but for every one of those there's probably a handful of others where I'll get the same call

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or I'll know of I'll be I'll be made aware of the same situation and

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Because it's in the process of present moment

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It's really difficult for some people to get that to see that because of their present moment, you know, think about it

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You know for example

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and then this is probably true regardless of the center addiction but

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Whenever somebody has made a mistake the first thing that we should do is fall to our knees

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remember him and and call upon his name and one of the hardest things for us to do is

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Fall in our knees remember him and call upon his name and the reason for that is because we see ourselves in the wrong light

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We see ourselves and I key the accuser again exactly and we see ourselves and are identified by what we did because that's the accuser point

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Exactly, that's who you are. You're just a pervert and so it's super

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I don't know. I shouldn't definitely never use words super easy when I've talked about this

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But it's a little bit easier for us to understand and maybe wrap our brain around not what I did in past tense

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Yeah, because it's behind us and we and we're coming to grips and we're coming to to kind of

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reconcile all of that but when I'm in the process and when that doing is still a part of my fabric of my life

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That's creating all kinds of trouble and in trial and so forth. It's difficult to separate and say this is who I am

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but because of my doings are kind of keeping me anchored to a

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or a

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False belief of who I am

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Yeah, what's your thoughts on this dad?

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You know, I just keep going back to that conference talk with president Nelson when he just simplified it with two words

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Think celestial, you know, and I think if we focus and it's not easy

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But it's simple

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So are we I know you know the quote, you know, are we human having spiritual experience or spiritual beings having human experiences?

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But maybe we should change that we should say are we till lestual beings? I?

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Having celestial experience or we celestial beings having till lestual experiences and the truth is

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The truth is we're both and we should celebrate that because that's part of God's plan

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That is that is part of the plan that we would grow and progress and especially that we would learn

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how to love and rely

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Upon Jesus Christ as our Redeemer. Yeah. Anyway, what that just kind of as a recap

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I hope people will thank God for the fall and again focus more on who they really are

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than what they did and

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Not ever establish their identity based upon their fallen nature

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okay, so

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Scott let's talk about the birth of Jesus and

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You know this all begins really with I mean

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We can talk about the Old Testament prophecies of Jesus and there are depending on how you count there are either dozens or there are

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I think Edershine said there were like 468

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468 prophecies Old Testament prophecies of the birth and life and death of

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Jesus Christ just in the Old Testament just in the Old Testament

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468 now I mean he's using some verses and he you know they

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They're fulfilled like in four different ways and anyway, I

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Really the list I like the most there are 68

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468

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But the point is

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Jesus's birth

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Was at his life and his death were all prophesied thousands of years before and really the first one was

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In Genesis chapter 3 we don't need to read it where he just tells them

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Adam and Eve that

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You know Satan may have power to bruise your heel

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Right, and then this gets a little bit into the temple

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but he

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Has power to crush your head that that's really a direct prophecy of

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the birth and

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Life death of Jesus Christ the resurrection

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So it really begins there and then it goes throughout

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I think the most most of the prophecies of the Old Testament are found in Psalms and

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Isaiah and

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We have lots of prophecies in the Book of Mormon

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You know Lehi, I mean Jesus even knew his name would or I'm sorry Nephi even knew his name would be

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Jesus Jesus Christ and that and of course

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the

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Critics of the Book of Mormon think that's ridiculous, but

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Nephi made it more plain more simple they even knew his name

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So there are so many great Old Testament and Book of Mormon

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Prophecies of the coming forth of of Jesus, but may we chair a few?

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I think one of my favorites is Isaiah

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chapter 7 Scott got it and I

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Think about George Handel every time we read these verses

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Because in three weeks he wrote the oratorio the Messiah

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And when I was in London this last year one thing I wanted to see was George Handel's grave

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And he's actually buried in Westminster Abbey

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and

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remember standing there seeing the

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the angel

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kind of engraved above his grave and

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thinking well

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Isaiah chapter 7 I

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Think it starts with about verse 12. So here we go chapter 13 or chapter 7 verse 13

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And he said here you now house of David it is a small thing for you to worry men

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But will you worry my God also?

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Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign behold a virgin shall conceive and bear a son and shall call his name

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Emanuel butter and honey shall he eat but he may know to refuse the evil and choose the good for before the child shall know to

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Refuse the evil and choose the good and land that thou a poor shall be forsaken of both her kings. Yeah, I love this

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They knew that he would be born of a virgin that Jesus would be born of a virgin and conceive a son and his name would be

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Emanuel which is interpreted God is with us

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God is with us. I also love the Isaiah

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The Isaiah scriptures and I think it's in isn't chapter 9

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wonderful

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counselor

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mighty God Prince of Peace, I mean the Isaiah prophecies of

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Jesus that's in verse chapter 9 verse 6

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For unto us a child is born

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Unto us a son is given and the government shall be upon his shoulders

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You can you can hear all this and his name shall be called?

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Wonderful can't sorry

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Counselor the mighty God the everlasting father the Prince of Peace. Oh

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Wow, anyway, most of the I think handles

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Messiah was was taken from the prophecies of

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Isaiah and

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That's that's 700 years before

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Jesus is born that even you know predates Lehi and his prophecies

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but I love the prophecies of the virgin birth and when we talk about the virgin birth Scott we of course think of Mary and

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This is a element conkey said the most elect spirit of all of Heavenly Father's spirits

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chosen for ordained to be the mother of

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His only begotten son in the flesh and

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I

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Just I just really love this story of Mary and the Virgin birth we we reject the immaculate conception of

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Catholics and others

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The immaculate conception of course is not only that she was a virgin, but that she would always that she was always a virgin

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There was no ever sexual relations between her and Joseph. So therefore they make Joseph look like an old man

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because we know that Jesus had some brothers and sisters and

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Everybody justifies that if they believe in the immaculate conception by making Joseph look like he's an old man a grandpa

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and then Mary was a young woman who was willing to take on an old man and his

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his

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Kitten kids as their mother had died and that this is Joseph's second marriage. We reject all that

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We don't believe that and further we don't we don't believe in the immaculate conception because they believe that Mary was completely

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Not affected by the fall at all

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That the the fall that she was no longer human that then that's why they they raise her to a level of

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Praying to her and a God and in some cases to an extreme that that she's even greater than Jesus

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because who can be greater than Jesus only his mother and father and

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Anyway, so we we do not

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believe or accept the immaculate conception, but we do accept the virgin birth and I

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Don't know how I don't know the only thing I love how the Book of Mormon the Book of Mormon gives us the best

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Really, let's go down to chapter 7 the Book of Mormon gives us the very best kind of description of how

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how Mary conceived in

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Almond chapter 7 it's right at the bottom of the second column

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Oh, we're saying sorry. Yeah, it's verse 10. Okay, yeah, and behold

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He shall be born of Mary at Jerusalem, which is the land of our forefathers

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She being a virgin a precious and chosen vessel who shall be overshadowed and

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Conceived by the power of the holy ghost and bring forth the Son. Yeah, even the Son of God. There you go

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That's the best description we have of how the conception occurred

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Overshadowed by the holy ghost now. I don't know what that means

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I don't know if she was transported by the Spirit in the presence of God or

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How that happened Scott and frankly I don't care and we don't need to know and Heavenly Father thinks it's so sacred

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He's never gonna describe it and we'll probably never know any detail about that. All we know is that she conceived

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the Son of God and that when he would be born

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He would have all the effects of the flesh

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Upon him through Mary that he would experience all of the experiences of the fall through Mary

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But that because of his divinity only he could completely overcome all of the negative effects of the fall

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Not only for himself, but for all of us because he was God

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He was Adam

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Second Adam and some people call him the second Adam and he is God

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so I just I

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just thrilled with this whole

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plan of how

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for ordained

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Mary was chosen

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To be and you know Mary if she's a good Jew

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She's probably 15 16 years old. She's she's a young girl and Joseph's probably

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About that same age or just a few years older. I

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mean these are probably teenage kids Joseph and Mary and

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the trust and

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preparation no doubt that God had had

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and put in them is

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Really quite amazing. Oh the tradition is is that?

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Mary's mother had maybe passed away by the time this right time Gabriel appears to her

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Right, and that's why he sends her to Elizabeth is for Elizabeth kind of play that role for her and to prepare her for

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for the

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Motherhood Elizabeth being the mother of John the Baptist. Yes, yeah a cousin. Yeah

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maybe maybe Mary's mother's cousin and

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Zacharias being the high priest

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struck deaf and dumb really when he's when you think about the story of Christmas we should start in July of

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2bc and by the way

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I'm not gonna we're not gonna get into the one with Jesus born. I

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Let's just let me just get that out of the way right now by saying

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Yeah, you can believe anything from 7bc to 1bc

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Scholars argue and they have an argument for each of those

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Actually elder mcconkey and president J. Breuven Clark

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They they believe that you know he was born in 5bc and

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Elder mcconkey justifies all that in his mortal Messiah series

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But elder Talmadge believes it was 1bc

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The elder bednar stated that it was on April 6th of 1bc. I mean, you know, so I

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We don't know it's not a part of our salvation and it doesn't matter

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We don't we don't need to know that and maybe he was buried maybe he was married or sorry

299
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Maybe he was born in December and maybe not. I don't I think it was April

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I don't

301
00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:07,600
Generally there aren't shepherds attending their flock by night in Bethlehem in December

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I mean, it's it's cold there in December and but maybe they were

303
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Maybe it was December. I don't know I I really believe that the Romans changed the dates based upon the you know the timing of their

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Pagan worship, I mean that they had a big celebration on December 25th the Romans

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prior to 400 BC or

306
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Or our ad prior to 400 ad when Christianity became the the national the

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Religion of the Empire

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but anyway, they had this to celebrate the birth of

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soul

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the

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Solar Victus God that they believe in the Sun God

312
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Yeah, and that he was reborn on

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December 25th because the days start to get longer

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You know the the shortest days December 21st

315
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And so they picked December 25th so they could have a week-long celebration of celebrating the rebirth of

316
00:25:09,660 --> 00:25:18,020
The soul the Sun God. Yeah. Yeah, so I think that the Romans changing it to December 25th is

317
00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:25,300
Not for me any basis of authority to think that that's when Jesus was born

318
00:25:25,300 --> 00:25:29,940
Yeah, and I actually like to think it was in the spring of the year and like a lot of things

319
00:25:30,540 --> 00:25:34,540
It's moved. It doesn't matter. No, it really doesn't matter. So yeah

320
00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:37,300
but but

321
00:25:37,340 --> 00:25:44,500
Yeah, no, sorry. No, that's okay. That's okay. I think that's that's interesting important. No interesting to some

322
00:25:44,500 --> 00:25:48,300
Yeah, perhaps Deb. I want to get your take on Mary. Yeah

323
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:52,980
Well as you were talking about that and I'm probably feel like I'm stepping back a little bit

324
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But that's okay. Well, we were in Israel. There were also two places where they believed he was born

325
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So I think there's just a lot of convoluted

326
00:26:01,900 --> 00:26:07,700
Traditions yes, absolutely. So is it important? No the fact that he was born. Yes

327
00:26:07,980 --> 00:26:12,460
Yeah, where did you think he was born when you were there where they show you that he was born?

328
00:26:12,460 --> 00:26:15,820
I mean one was in a church, right? Yeah. Yeah, one was at the church

329
00:26:16,380 --> 00:26:18,380
Yeah

330
00:26:18,380 --> 00:26:26,660
I think they were both in the and I didn't it it was interesting because I I didn't feel

331
00:26:28,780 --> 00:26:33,900
Something powerful at either place, right? Yeah, I just thought this is interesting

332
00:26:33,900 --> 00:26:41,380
I you know the pictures that you see are very different than what is there. Yeah, I think that's interesting

333
00:26:41,380 --> 00:26:46,500
You just said I didn't feel anything different because there were places when you definitely do. Oh, yeah, for sure

334
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:51,140
Yes, I mean I totally felt something different right, you know Golgotha. I felt something different

335
00:26:52,060 --> 00:26:53,620
Yeah, yeah

336
00:26:53,620 --> 00:26:57,660
Well, I saw that we'll maybe talk more about the place

337
00:26:57,660 --> 00:27:01,020
But what's your I don't want to stop you from your thoughts on Mary?

338
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,500
so I

339
00:27:03,540 --> 00:27:06,740
Have often thought about this as a woman and

340
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Baring children and having a son

341
00:27:11,180 --> 00:27:20,940
But I just think of the faith she must have had and the trust she must have had and the I think

342
00:27:21,220 --> 00:27:23,420
The word that comes to me is innocence. I

343
00:27:24,220 --> 00:27:26,220
think it was just

344
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You know, I think of a 15 year old child

345
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or a girl

346
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Carrying a big burden carrying a

347
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And I wouldn't call it a burden, but a big story

348
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and I I feel like

349
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For her it must have been I

350
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Mean I also think about when she held that knowing that he was a son of God

351
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knowing that

352
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How much closer could you be to God?

353
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then

354
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having that

355
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God in your womb. I

356
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Mean, I can't even imagine what

357
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:14,020
Experiences and I would love to sit with her and

358
00:28:14,780 --> 00:28:17,660
Ask those questions. What was it like?

359
00:28:18,780 --> 00:28:21,540
Carrying the son of God. What was it like?

360
00:28:22,820 --> 00:28:28,940
Raising the son of God. I mean it those thoughts have gone through my mind numerous times

361
00:28:30,180 --> 00:28:31,940
about

362
00:28:31,940 --> 00:28:36,940
nurturing and loving and I mean you have this perfect child and her being

363
00:28:38,060 --> 00:28:40,060
not perfect

364
00:28:40,260 --> 00:28:42,260
raising and

365
00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:44,380
nurturing and

366
00:28:44,380 --> 00:28:46,380
understanding what she knew

367
00:28:47,980 --> 00:28:49,980
But still

368
00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:55,700
Knowing as a small child that he's about his father's business. Yeah, I

369
00:28:55,700 --> 00:29:01,540
Have a picture of a little boy Jesus at the top of my stairs and I remember the first time I saw that

370
00:29:02,220 --> 00:29:03,820
being absolutely

371
00:29:03,820 --> 00:29:05,820
Penetrated with the spirit

372
00:29:05,820 --> 00:29:07,320
thinking

373
00:29:07,320 --> 00:29:09,480
Of the innocence that he had

374
00:29:10,260 --> 00:29:12,260
You know what a beautiful

375
00:29:12,580 --> 00:29:14,580
depiction of

376
00:29:14,740 --> 00:29:16,740
That his ministry I

377
00:29:17,140 --> 00:29:19,700
Like the word innocence, but I also know that

378
00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:26,260
Mary if she was a student of the scriptures and I I know she was I knew I know she knew the prophecies

379
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:32,340
Which would have been an important part of her preparation for her to even believe Gabriel when he appeared

380
00:29:33,980 --> 00:29:38,340
Anyway, if she would have known the scriptures, I mean Alma Book Mormon testified of this

381
00:29:38,340 --> 00:29:39,580
I'm sure there's

382
00:29:39,580 --> 00:29:44,860
Prophecies that we don't even maybe they're not all in the Bible and I know that she must have known

383
00:29:44,860 --> 00:29:50,460
I know she knew that if she was gonna be the mother of God, this was gonna be rough

384
00:29:51,980 --> 00:29:57,420
Innocent for sure, but she had to be really tough and firm knowing that wow

385
00:29:57,980 --> 00:30:02,220
He's gonna suffer and that means I'm gonna suffer. I

386
00:30:03,460 --> 00:30:07,700
Think she she went into this knowing all of that now

387
00:30:08,340 --> 00:30:14,180
Cognitively knowing it is one thing and then experiencing it 33 years later when he's

388
00:30:14,180 --> 00:30:17,380
Crucified on the cross and she's standing there

389
00:30:18,020 --> 00:30:21,060
You know at the foot of the cross what observing this

390
00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:26,220
So that it's experientially it's different than knowing it cognitively

391
00:30:26,300 --> 00:30:33,580
But anyway, she would have known that even as a even as a young girl. Yeah, this is gonna be rough. This is gonna

392
00:30:35,220 --> 00:30:41,100
I mean she was she was taking a lot on a 15 and again must have been somewhat prepared

393
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:45,020
Maybe they're been great adversities in her life or whatever

394
00:30:45,020 --> 00:30:52,460
I can't wait to someday read the book of Mary and see the videos of her young life and how God did prepare

395
00:30:53,940 --> 00:31:01,700
But anyway Gabriel appears if again depending on whatever month you want to you can kind of work that backwards

396
00:31:03,220 --> 00:31:09,780
Gabriel appears if he was born in April he probably right appears sometime in the middle of the summer

397
00:31:09,780 --> 00:31:11,780
I'm married and

398
00:31:12,740 --> 00:31:14,740
She is

399
00:31:15,140 --> 00:31:18,620
espoused to Joseph well to be espoused is

400
00:31:19,260 --> 00:31:22,180
Like you're married. I mean Jewish

401
00:31:23,820 --> 00:31:28,260
Engagement is not like our engagements. They're a little flaky

402
00:31:29,580 --> 00:31:33,900
But did you ever break up an engagement? No, okay? Okay? Well

403
00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:40,540
so many do right we've had

404
00:31:41,620 --> 00:31:48,180
Sir, don't spring sample, you know, you sometimes have these appointments. You're gonna do a life ceiling then all of a sudden it shows up

405
00:31:49,580 --> 00:31:57,340
Cancelled and and there's probably lots of reasons for that but some of those I know are probably last minute fear and broken engagements

406
00:31:57,340 --> 00:32:05,860
Anyway, Mary espoused to Joseph. This would have been arranged marriage. You know, this is a they they didn't always just

407
00:32:05,860 --> 00:32:12,100
That Mary for love it was a different kind of love not romantic, but a sacrifice and

408
00:32:13,220 --> 00:32:16,980
So they she was promised she'd made a covenant

409
00:32:17,700 --> 00:32:22,940
with Joseph already and for her to be told this information and then to

410
00:32:22,940 --> 00:32:30,420
Have the Holy Ghost overshadow her and her conceive the Son of God and then to be told to go see Mary

411
00:32:30,420 --> 00:32:37,140
I think it's I think it's it's awesome to think about the sequence of these events just a little bit. I

412
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:45,140
Believe like elder McConkey that she would have gone to Joseph first. I think she would have told Joseph first

413
00:32:45,140 --> 00:32:50,020
I think she oh she I we don't have record of the Gabriel told her to do that

414
00:32:50,020 --> 00:32:53,140
But I think maybe he did

415
00:32:53,980 --> 00:33:01,140
And if he didn't I think she did it out of respect and that covenant she went and told Joseph a I'm expecting a child

416
00:33:01,380 --> 00:33:06,580
This is what happened. I think she told him. I think he was prepared for this

417
00:33:08,220 --> 00:33:11,260
As you as we read the scriptures and most commentaries

418
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:14,500
Who comment on it?

419
00:33:14,500 --> 00:33:20,780
Make us believe that that Joseph didn't really believe her or what's oh what's Joseph going to do?

420
00:33:20,780 --> 00:33:26,380
You know is he gonna have her stoned is he gonna put her away? Privilege give her a divorce. What's he gonna do? I?

421
00:33:27,540 --> 00:33:33,540
Actually believe based on a Jewish commentary. I read years and years ago. I actually believe he believed her and

422
00:33:34,780 --> 00:33:40,340
He had decided to put her away privily because he was afraid that he was not worthy

423
00:33:40,340 --> 00:33:48,660
To be the stepdad he didn't want to take that on himself and did not believe he was worthy to be the dad

424
00:33:49,580 --> 00:33:55,420
For the son of God, I mean think about Joseph situation if Mary did go and tell Joseph

425
00:33:55,580 --> 00:34:01,060
Hey, I'm expecting and it is the son of God. It's the it's a manual. It's

426
00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:04,260
Jehovah is with us him the Messiah

427
00:34:04,780 --> 00:34:08,300
Think of Joseph would you I mean really as a young man

428
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:10,580
Would you would you want to take that on?

429
00:34:11,820 --> 00:34:14,540
And anyway, I think he he had fear

430
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:17,140
It's so cool in the

431
00:34:17,140 --> 00:34:19,140
Announcement of Gabriel the angel

432
00:34:19,220 --> 00:34:25,620
To Mary to Joseph and eventually to the shepherds, right? It's fear not

433
00:34:26,540 --> 00:34:28,540
fear not fear not

434
00:34:29,540 --> 00:34:31,540
Which makes me wonder

435
00:34:31,660 --> 00:34:34,180
What sort of fear were they experiencing?

436
00:34:34,180 --> 00:34:39,540
You know how how just think about that. We've talked about Mary

437
00:34:40,300 --> 00:34:45,260
Joseph, but even the shepherds what kind of fear would that invoke in us anyway?

438
00:34:45,380 --> 00:34:48,940
Mary tells Joseph and she says I'm gonna go see Elizabeth

439
00:34:49,460 --> 00:34:54,620
I've been commanded to see Elizabeth. I'll be back in six months or however long she was there

440
00:34:54,820 --> 00:34:59,020
I'll be back and you can tell me what you've decided to do

441
00:34:59,020 --> 00:35:06,180
And he wrestled with it and wrestled with it and I actually believe it's just me that he

442
00:35:06,740 --> 00:35:09,140
he came to the conclusion that I

443
00:35:10,420 --> 00:35:14,900
Just don't know if I can do it. I don't know that I'm capable or worthy and

444
00:35:15,940 --> 00:35:19,380
That's when he has the dream or vision

445
00:35:20,500 --> 00:35:22,500
of the angel appearing

446
00:35:22,860 --> 00:35:24,980
to him saying fear not and

447
00:35:24,980 --> 00:35:27,980
and commanding to do it and

448
00:35:28,740 --> 00:35:33,500
At that point I like to think he actually went down and picked up Mary and brought her home

449
00:35:35,220 --> 00:35:36,580
We don't have a record of that

450
00:35:36,580 --> 00:35:43,420
But there are some traditions that believe that and I kind of like that tradition of what's Gabriel appeared to him he was

451
00:35:44,220 --> 00:35:46,220
He was all in

452
00:35:46,740 --> 00:35:51,140
And he went down there and I don't know where they got married or when they got married

453
00:35:51,140 --> 00:35:55,180
but I believe they got married just as soon as he got that information and

454
00:35:56,580 --> 00:35:59,260
Got that witness and command from Gabriel

455
00:36:00,740 --> 00:36:02,060
So

456
00:36:02,060 --> 00:36:07,580
Mary and Joseph such an important part of of this story. I think about Joseph. I

457
00:36:08,300 --> 00:36:12,160
Was just reading in Matthew. This is chapter 1 verse

458
00:36:12,900 --> 00:36:14,900
19 and Joseph her husband

459
00:36:14,900 --> 00:36:22,860
Being a just man and not willing to make her a public example and when you say just mans God that that is loaded

460
00:36:23,180 --> 00:36:26,220
From a Jewish commentary standpoint. Why don't you?

461
00:36:26,620 --> 00:36:30,940
Yeah, talk to us. That means that means if he was a just man

462
00:36:31,460 --> 00:36:34,540
If he was really a good Jew, he would have stoned her

463
00:36:35,020 --> 00:36:37,420
So for it say him being a just man

464
00:36:37,940 --> 00:36:42,100
He was a just man. He would have fulfilled the law now

465
00:36:42,100 --> 00:36:48,740
He did have that option but most people believe in the circumstances Jewish commentary as I've read that

466
00:36:50,060 --> 00:36:52,060
For him to put her away frivolously

467
00:36:52,620 --> 00:36:58,820
There were there had to be more to it then I mean he knew more than what he was really saying

468
00:36:59,620 --> 00:37:07,420
And then in 20 but while he thought on these things behold the angel the Lord appeared unto him in a dream saying Joseph

469
00:37:07,420 --> 00:37:14,300
Thou son of David which is important. Yeah, you know, that's it that that's important that we recognize the Joseph

470
00:37:14,300 --> 00:37:15,940
His identity

471
00:37:15,940 --> 00:37:23,840
Exactly helping him remember who he is and that it's through this line through this lineage that the Messiah will come

472
00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:31,300
Exactly, right? Yeah, and if you're not to take under the Mary thy wife, you're not to take upon me

473
00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:37,660
See he's saying I think he's already kind of come to conclusion. It might be true because he loves and believes Mary

474
00:37:37,660 --> 00:37:42,900
Yeah, he knows Mary's he knows Mary's virtuous. He knows Mary's a good woman

475
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:48,700
He knows and he's and Mary hasn't said hey, I'm I'm a child by another man

476
00:37:49,420 --> 00:37:55,340
Mary told him I had an angel appear to me and I am the mother of God. I

477
00:37:56,180 --> 00:37:59,460
Think Mary clear made that completely clear to him

478
00:37:59,460 --> 00:38:04,700
So I mean whatever what Joseph is wrestling with is not whether

479
00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:07,500
Mary had an affair

480
00:38:07,740 --> 00:38:09,740
What he's wrestling with is

481
00:38:10,260 --> 00:38:16,260
Really, can I do this? That's right? And that's what I'm getting at because that that would be so

482
00:38:17,140 --> 00:38:23,780
Overwhelming. I mean so what he's a just man. Okay, that's fantastic, right? Which means that he is in the faith

483
00:38:23,780 --> 00:38:28,980
Yeah, which if he's in the faith in the law, yeah, that's not just that's not just a little thing

484
00:38:28,980 --> 00:38:34,900
That's a big deal. I mean at school. It's yeah, I mean it's it's an extremely cool. Yeah

485
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:42,100
21 and she shall bring forth a son and now shall call his name Jesus for he shall save

486
00:38:42,540 --> 00:38:48,620
his people from their sins and so and I think he's Gabriel is just

487
00:38:49,020 --> 00:38:55,380
Verifying what Mary Mary had told him already told you right? Okay, so here now you get the bear now you get the

488
00:38:55,380 --> 00:38:58,780
The second witness now you get the witness from the angel, right?

489
00:38:59,180 --> 00:39:05,140
And you're going to be a new dad of the son of God. Are you kidding me? Yeah?

490
00:39:05,140 --> 00:39:10,940
I I don't care how just I don't care how much earthly preparation or even

491
00:39:11,580 --> 00:39:18,260
Spiritual preparation you put into that that seems like an impossible task from a dad standpoint, right?

492
00:39:18,260 --> 00:39:21,680
So think about what all that entails, you know as Joseph

493
00:39:21,680 --> 00:39:28,220
He now becomes the protector of the son of God that's I read the read the proclamation to the family

494
00:39:28,660 --> 00:39:33,820
That hasn't changed, right? So so many responsibilities in the Jewish culture

495
00:39:33,820 --> 00:39:38,740
He was the protector first born son and then they learn about how Herod about you know

496
00:39:39,020 --> 00:39:47,020
Threaten to kill all the babies and so now Joseph has to take Mary and and Jesus a baby Jesus into Egypt for a time

497
00:39:47,020 --> 00:39:51,860
Yeah, so you're not only protecting Jesus. You got to protect Mary exactly. Yeah

498
00:39:52,580 --> 00:39:59,700
And Egypt at the time. I don't know why you know that might have been a hostile environment or at least at least an

499
00:40:00,260 --> 00:40:05,140
Unfamiliar environment for them to be in and to reestablish and you know good thing

500
00:40:05,140 --> 00:40:07,380
He was a carpenter and had a trade that was probably

501
00:40:08,020 --> 00:40:12,980
You know desirable or in demand wherever they potentially possibly went

502
00:40:12,980 --> 00:40:19,140
But you know, I think of Joseph we don't we don't talk a lot about in tradition and it's okay

503
00:40:19,140 --> 00:40:22,420
You know the focus shouldn't be on Joseph the focus should be on Jesus

504
00:40:23,300 --> 00:40:28,540
But I but as a stepfather, you know, I I sometimes take into consideration

505
00:40:29,780 --> 00:40:34,460
And think of you know, what would I do? I you know just being a stepdad

506
00:40:35,340 --> 00:40:41,420
It would have been a little bit different, you know, because Mary's you know, Jesus is real father

507
00:40:41,420 --> 00:40:47,020
You know, there would have been very little chance of conflict between Joseph and Mary's real father, right?

508
00:40:47,020 --> 00:40:47,940
Yeah, heavenly father

509
00:40:47,940 --> 00:40:56,140
So there are some some big vast differences, but there are some similarities that can draw empathy for those who have potentially been in that situation

510
00:40:56,980 --> 00:40:59,620
even stepchildren could look at that and

511
00:41:00,620 --> 00:41:02,020
draw

512
00:41:02,020 --> 00:41:09,220
Comfort and peace maybe and thinking, you know what Jesus had a stepdad too, you know, and I'm sure you know as a stepfather

513
00:41:09,220 --> 00:41:16,420
You know, you always want to do the right thing. You're serious about your approach to your relationship with heavenly father so that you can teach

514
00:41:16,700 --> 00:41:19,580
well, Joseph's was all of that and

515
00:41:20,180 --> 00:41:22,180
so much more and

516
00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:27,340
And I just have the utmost love and respect for that man because of all of that

517
00:41:27,780 --> 00:41:29,780
Well, he was a man of

518
00:41:30,580 --> 00:41:37,260
Great trust. I mean think of the trust God would have put in Joseph. Yeah to raise his son

519
00:41:37,260 --> 00:41:39,500
Yeah, he got son right

520
00:41:40,300 --> 00:41:46,660
Kindness, you know, yeah, and the revelations that Joseph probably would have received. I mean the relationship and

521
00:41:47,340 --> 00:41:50,540
Revelations along the way to Joseph received

522
00:41:52,380 --> 00:41:56,020
Anyway, so it's a special beginning special story

523
00:41:56,340 --> 00:42:03,140
Yep, what thoughts? Yeah, I was thinking about Joseph's upbringing and how he was prepared just like Mary was prepared

524
00:42:03,140 --> 00:42:05,740
I think Joseph probably had his story as well

525
00:42:05,740 --> 00:42:13,500
ways that he had, you know, younger maybe trials maybe challenges where he was a little bit

526
00:42:15,380 --> 00:42:21,180
You know closer to the spirit to understand so that he could hear the spirit right so that he could receive

527
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:26,020
Revelation so that he could hear when though that important message was delivered. Yeah

528
00:42:27,460 --> 00:42:32,340
You know, I love I love the Michael McLean song about Joseph

529
00:42:32,340 --> 00:42:36,420
He's remember that

530
00:42:39,940 --> 00:42:41,940
And he says no

531
00:42:42,860 --> 00:42:44,860
He's my father

532
00:42:44,900 --> 00:42:47,580
Meaning Joseph saying no Jesus is my father

533
00:42:48,580 --> 00:42:50,900
something to that effect and I just

534
00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:57,820
Just think about this and what what Joseph and Mary had to know about Jesus before Jesus became a man

535
00:42:57,820 --> 00:43:03,900
He knew he was the creator of the world this this baby had created the worlds

536
00:43:04,180 --> 00:43:09,420
I mean when he's laying in the manger, what is Joseph and Mary thinking?

537
00:43:10,180 --> 00:43:13,380
This babe created worlds. What?

538
00:43:14,540 --> 00:43:16,060
anyway, I

539
00:43:16,060 --> 00:43:18,060
This is a

540
00:43:18,060 --> 00:43:22,900
Jesus was a God before he was born. What's the title of that is I was not his father

541
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:29,340
He was yeah, I want to read those lyrics because I think I think that's important. Yeah powerful

542
00:43:29,340 --> 00:43:35,260
Yeah, because I remember when I first heard this song or my favorites me too

543
00:43:35,900 --> 00:43:38,780
Was about the time I was becoming a stepdad really?

544
00:43:39,420 --> 00:43:45,700
He was working late one evening when the wood he knew so well when she thought she recognized him

545
00:43:45,780 --> 00:43:51,760
Though at first she could not tell as she humbly begged his pardon the strange sadness swelled inside

546
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:56,120
When she asked aren't you the father of the man they crucified?

547
00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:02,560
Then the carpenter repeated what he said so many times. He said I'm not his father

548
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:05,040
He was mine

549
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:11,880
Then he humbly went on working with those worn and calloused hands though. He did not ask more questions

550
00:44:11,960 --> 00:44:16,840
He knew she didn't understand so he asked if she would help him and

551
00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:24,800
He saw her answer in a glance. She did all the chores. He asked her. She was so grateful for the chance

552
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,360
Then when they talked for hours of Jesus and how he knew he was divine

553
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:34,720
He said I was not his father. He was mine for how could one so foolish and

554
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,920
So flawed ever hope to raise the son of God. I love that that message

555
00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:45,560
That's kind of a little bit how I see it now now to be honest

556
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:51,600
You know what happened to Joseph? Oh, well, we have so much so many holes to fill in the gaps

557
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:57,160
Yeah, right, we know we know some little really but but a lot of people believe Joseph must have died

558
00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,160
I mean the the really the

559
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,240
lifespan was 40 something years at the time of Jesus and

560
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:10,800
33 years by the time Jesus is crucified most people believe Joseph has died

561
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:13,800
that

562
00:45:13,800 --> 00:45:15,800
Jesus buried

563
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,160
Joseph his stepdad somewhere around Ezra and

564
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:23,420
That's why he's not there and that's why Mary's alone

565
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:32,440
Standing at the foot of the cross when Jesus is crucified and why Jesus is so concerned about Mary that he says to John

566
00:45:32,440 --> 00:45:34,940
Who's standing there with her behold thy mother

567
00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,480
Giving John the responsibility

568
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,080
which would be

569
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,960
You know

570
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:44,400
Amazing

571
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,240
Overwhelming for Jesus to give John the responsibility you got to take care of Mary

572
00:45:48,800 --> 00:45:56,320
Now, I know James was a stepbrother Jesus. So we believe as Latter-day Saints that Mary had other children

573
00:45:57,280 --> 00:45:59,880
after Jesus and some daughters

574
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,320
tells us in the scriptures that he had sisters and James and

575
00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:06,960
James James and Jude

576
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:10,920
Are we know at least those two are half brothers?

577
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:19,880
To Jesus so he had a family. He was born and raised and had a family in the home of Joseph and Mary and

578
00:46:22,440 --> 00:46:29,960
They went down to let's just talk about the birth I guess now Scott in Bethlehem they went there to be taxed

579
00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,560
Went down to Bethlehem

580
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:38,160
Something that I found really interesting when we were studying when I was studying the compo me to

581
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:45,920
How even though he was a half brother he did not believe that Jesus was the Messiah

582
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:52,920
Yeah, yeah, they struggled with that didn't they which I think is so interesting like not being a profiting your own land

583
00:46:52,920 --> 00:46:55,280
Yeah, but I your own family, right?

584
00:46:55,280 --> 00:47:03,720
But after he was resurrected I think was when Jude said oh, yeah, I guess he is the Messiah

585
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:11,240
I mean, and I think that's an important thing to think about is it wasn't all easy and

586
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:17,960
Calming and peaceful because the Son of God was on the planet. I mean they didn't believe him while he was here

587
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:24,880
I mean people struggle now to believe that he is the Messiah and Christ and they didn't even believe while he was there

588
00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:28,520
Even his own step brother and maybe that was in some ways

589
00:47:28,520 --> 00:47:32,680
I've thought about that too Tim and maybe in some ways that was a protection to them

590
00:47:32,680 --> 00:47:39,440
I mean maybe the Lord didn't want them to fully understand everything as to protect them

591
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:40,720
and

592
00:47:40,720 --> 00:47:45,720
They didn't maybe know for sure until he maybe appeared to them

593
00:47:45,720 --> 00:47:50,480
And I think it would have been maybe among his family that he first would have appeared

594
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,160
You know, I know the first appearance that we really have were on the two on the road to Emmaus

595
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:58,400
But I like to think that he he did appear to his family

596
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:04,840
There was a step brothers and sisters and others not just Mary. Yeah, I mean he appeared to Mary

597
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,800
I guess first then the two then the apostles anyway

598
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:12,120
We'll go through all that when we talk about the resurrection, but I

599
00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:20,360
Think that maybe they didn't know for sure until I know Mary did I know Joseph did but the brothers sisters

600
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:24,640
That'd be tough to have an older brother who your mom was telling you was the son of God

601
00:48:24,640 --> 00:48:29,840
I don't know how much she told him, but you're right. They didn't really have a witness

602
00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:34,440
I also think about being the mom of these children and

603
00:48:35,360 --> 00:48:37,120
having that

604
00:48:37,120 --> 00:48:40,360
Sacred relationship with the Savior how do you balance that?

605
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,640
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, clearly. I'm not Mary

606
00:48:44,640 --> 00:48:51,280
But you know, I've often thought that tender relationship that she had with Jesus

607
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:57,640
And then what those you know her responsibility with those other children to

608
00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:05,760
Yeah, no, not loving Jesus you wouldn't love Jesus anymore and you love Jude or anymore and you love James

609
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:11,600
Right the others and you know something that maybe you can't you can't tell them everything

610
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:16,960
Right and they didn't understand anyway, right? Yeah

611
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:19,520
Yeah, good point. Thank you

612
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:25,960
Well, they go down to Bethlehem because the decree that comes out from Caesar Augustus that all the world needs to be taxed

613
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:31,640
Right Luke chapter 2 so they go down there because they're there of the royal blood

614
00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:35,040
both Mary and Joseph are the seat of David and

615
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:42,920
And David the city of David is Bethlehem. I mean, that's where that's where he kept his throne his palace

616
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:48,920
Bethlehem was a royal city. This is also a city where Ruth and Boas there. They're also

617
00:49:49,760 --> 00:49:52,520
Jesus also descendants of Ruth and Boas in the

618
00:49:53,320 --> 00:49:55,120
genealogy and

619
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:58,280
That's where they lived was Bethlehem and this is where

620
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:06,640
They're really near Bethlehem only a mile away. It's where Rachel was buried the beloved wife of Jacob and I mean

621
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:08,640
I mean Bethlehem was a

622
00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:14,160
Not just a royal city, but it was a the city of their fathers

623
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:19,560
It was a sacred city and they go down there to be to do their census

624
00:50:20,320 --> 00:50:24,360
To be taxed and that that was probably not so much maybe a Roman

625
00:50:24,360 --> 00:50:28,720
Command that they go back to the city of their fathers but more of a Jewish tradition

626
00:50:28,720 --> 00:50:31,680
And I like to believe if it was in the spring of the year

627
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,280
That it would have been the same time as maybe the Passover

628
00:50:35,280 --> 00:50:42,360
I mean, what a better way to take a census than to do it at the time of Passover when most people are traveling

629
00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:47,200
To Jerusalem anyway, they can go back to their land of their origin and

630
00:50:47,720 --> 00:50:50,840
Then do a census. I kind of like to think that it's up. Maybe

631
00:50:50,840 --> 00:50:58,760
The birth is at the same time as the Passover and maybe not just because of the census but because of the Passover

632
00:50:59,560 --> 00:51:04,360
There's no room in the end ends actually Joseph Smith

633
00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:10,720
The Prophet Joseph Smith and Joseph Smith translation. He makes that plural not just no room in the end

634
00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:14,160
But in the ends or the cons

635
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:23,240
I mean the real translation of that is the con and back in those days the the Oriental Eastern way was you traveled in caravans

636
00:51:23,560 --> 00:51:29,000
And I'm sure that it wasn't just Joseph and Mary alone. I'm sure they were in a caravan

637
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:33,400
You did that for protection. He did that for a lot of just practical reasons

638
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:38,120
And when you got there man, it wasn't just you you and your wife looking for a room

639
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:45,040
It was everybody else looking for room and there were been lots of other people there because the census maybe because of Passover

640
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:48,280
And they can't find any place to stay President Elson

641
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:55,360
Then elder Nelson gave a whole talk on this at BYU devotional talking about the caravan the cons and

642
00:51:55,560 --> 00:52:01,640
Where they may have stayed and he kind of believed that they stay actually, you know, if there's no rooms available

643
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:05,840
That they would have just gone in the middle of a big

644
00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:07,760
these

645
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:13,120
Ends or cons as they call them had a lot of rooms around the animals

646
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,720
I mean just just picture kind of a courtyard

647
00:52:16,240 --> 00:52:22,960
filled with animals and you put the animals in the center or in the courtyard surrounded by rooms to

648
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:27,520
protect the animals from wolves from thieves from others and

649
00:52:28,680 --> 00:52:34,160
President Elson believes pretty strongly that he was born in the middle of

650
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:43,680
All of these serums that were around them all these people and he's born in the center of them and laid in a manger among the animals there

651
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:52,520
But I think many others believe that and this is this is apparently a historical fact according to the writers

652
00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:54,520
Ed or shy I'm far

653
00:52:54,960 --> 00:53:01,440
Far believe this really strongly that who wrote the life of Christ who elder Tal means another mcconkey draw a lot of

654
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:07,400
Information from he believes that he was born in a cave and there are

655
00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:11,600
there are hundreds of limestone caves in Bethlehem and

656
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:18,560
You did you guys go to yeah, yeah, and as a matter of fact those caves were used for similar reasons

657
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:22,000
You just mentioned a really used for the animals exactly

658
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,480
Yeah, they they stayed there people would stay there

659
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:27,480
They would have their animals in the cave with them

660
00:53:28,040 --> 00:53:30,160
There's a good possibility when I went there

661
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:32,720
You know they they have a Armenian

662
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:41,840
Catholic Orthodox Church over the one cave that the Armenians these some traditions believe he was born in and if you if you go

663
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:44,760
It went down to the basement. Did you guys go to Bethlehem? Yeah? Yeah? Yeah?

664
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:50,200
I did the old Armenian church right burning incense. Yep. Yeah, and if you go down

665
00:53:50,240 --> 00:53:54,600
You can see the cave where they believe he was born. Yeah, that's one place

666
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:58,240
There's another place where the Catholic the other it's a Roman Catholic Church things

667
00:53:58,240 --> 00:54:03,040
He was born in the middle of a church which would have been kind of I maybe like it

668
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:10,320
What president Elson said, you know that he wasn't born in a cave, but in the middle of a con I know what I went there

669
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,640
And I went there a long time ago, and it was still fresh on people's minds

670
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:19,640
That president Kay had visited there David over Kay and that he had gone to some of the other

671
00:54:20,240 --> 00:54:27,000
Limestone caves and he had identified he felt strongly that there was one cave and it kind of became known as the

672
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:32,920
You know president Kay's impression. I remember going there and seeing that cave which was

673
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:35,800
Who knows and again?

674
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:40,760
It's not that important. Although we would all love to know and maybe someday we will

675
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:45,680
But here's the important point and I think young Mckonkey

676
00:54:46,520 --> 00:54:49,760
Really says this I could ever say it

677
00:54:49,760 --> 00:54:58,600
Is that he the point is it was essential that he disanned below all things and in order to fulfill that

678
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:04,360
Scripture that truth that he was born in about the lowest

679
00:55:05,440 --> 00:55:06,560
possible

680
00:55:06,560 --> 00:55:09,560
conditions a Jewish baby could be born into

681
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,920
Among the animals smelly animals

682
00:55:15,760 --> 00:55:17,120
no

683
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:18,640
no

684
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:20,640
No crib for a bed

685
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,200
that it was

686
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:25,200
He was laid in a manger

687
00:55:25,520 --> 00:55:30,280
Mary would have been somewhat prepared for this and brought swaddling clothes

688
00:55:30,280 --> 00:55:36,920
And I know there's lots people who make it important significance of swaddling clothes and the end I and I'm fine with that

689
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:39,200
I mean, I don't disagree with that but

690
00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,320
Swaddling clothes really means rags and

691
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:46,240
I know she would have probably had more prepared for this

692
00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,640
Baby than that. I think she knew that this baby was probably gonna be born in Bethlehem

693
00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:54,040
She knew the prophecy and Mike it prophesied of that

694
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:59,720
the prophet Mike and prophesied that in the Mike chapter 5 I think it is that

695
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:04,760
That she would be born in that the baby would be born in Bethlehem. So her going down there

696
00:56:04,760 --> 00:56:09,560
I think she knew the baby is gonna be born. I I don't think she just wrapped him in a bunch of rags

697
00:56:10,560 --> 00:56:12,560
But they were poor

698
00:56:13,160 --> 00:56:15,160
They were really poor

699
00:56:15,160 --> 00:56:17,160
And they had nothing

700
00:56:17,600 --> 00:56:21,840
And evidence of that is when they presented him in the temple 40 days after his birth

701
00:56:22,560 --> 00:56:23,960
She

702
00:56:23,960 --> 00:56:30,200
Sacrifices two turtle doves. Well, normally you would give a a burnt offering of a lamb and a

703
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:36,560
Sin offering of a bird and but if you're really really poor you can just sacrifice two birds

704
00:56:38,600 --> 00:56:42,520
That's what they sacrifice evidence of their their

705
00:56:42,520 --> 00:56:45,840
Their poor economic situation so

706
00:56:46,680 --> 00:56:51,360
you know rapids while he closed lying in a major in the middle of

707
00:56:53,360 --> 00:56:58,960
The animals and whatever is there speculation is that did they have people who helped them was there a midwife was there?

708
00:56:58,960 --> 00:57:05,040
You know who would have helped Mary with all this? I don't know. Maybe angels attended her. I don't know but

709
00:57:05,920 --> 00:57:07,920
but

710
00:57:08,640 --> 00:57:10,440
The birth was lowly

711
00:57:10,440 --> 00:57:12,440
Lowly

712
00:57:12,480 --> 00:57:19,920
That's the point. I think that's a interesting foreshadowing to Jesus's life. Yeah his entire life

713
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:26,940
He spent with those who were marginalized with those who were less fortunate with the with the sinner

714
00:57:26,940 --> 00:57:31,160
You know with the destitute with the disease with with all

715
00:57:32,080 --> 00:57:37,960
Effects of the fall of Adam and Eve showing up in the human race. That's where Jesus spent his time

716
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:44,920
He experienced he had experience it. You know, it wasn't a what for Jesus. It wasn't an academic knowing

717
00:57:44,920 --> 00:57:50,420
It was a he knew it because he had lived it too, right and through that and because of that

718
00:57:50,420 --> 00:57:54,520
No, I know he's a son of God and I know the empathy could have been achieved

719
00:57:55,040 --> 00:58:00,160
By way of being the son of God in any way that it needed to be but he did go through that

720
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:03,160
And I think that it's important maybe not for him

721
00:58:03,160 --> 00:58:08,920
But it's important for us to recognize that he did go through that because now I can see a

722
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:14,280
God who you know went one for example, you know

723
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:22,080
Devin I mentioned earlier that we were at a funeral earlier in the week and somebody talked about how the person who had this young man

724
00:58:22,080 --> 00:58:23,960
Who had passed away?

725
00:58:23,960 --> 00:58:26,280
Did something for a homeless person, you know

726
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:31,600
And when we start when we when we do those things and and we say that's what Jesus would have done

727
00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:39,120
Well, Jesus would have done that out of empathy as much as anything else because he experienced some of that himself even from the very beginning

728
00:58:40,320 --> 00:58:42,320
Yeah, the king of kings

729
00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,520
Lord of lords right a God

730
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:49,720
Born in such lonely circumstances made in a major

731
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:54,920
Well, there there had to be witnesses God knew there had to be witnesses for this

732
00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:59,400
So and Luke too after wrapping him as falling from laying him in a major

733
00:58:59,400 --> 00:59:01,400
We read about the shepherds

734
00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:04,440
Did you guys go to shepherds?

735
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:06,760
Yeah, yeah, that was one of my favorite places

736
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:13,000
There was a way we were there in June we were seeing Christmas carols

737
00:59:13,720 --> 00:59:19,000
And it was really sacred and as we were seeing Christmas carols up from the

738
00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:24,800
Kind of the hill where we came here comes a little boy a crippled boy

739
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:27,320
with a couple of lambs

740
00:59:27,320 --> 00:59:33,960
I'm going to be kidding me. It was just oh, it was one of my favorite

741
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:43,940
Experiences was to be seeing Christmas carols in shepherds field looking over at Bethlehem on the opposite hill

742
00:59:44,760 --> 00:59:51,440
I mean all these cities Jerusalem six miles south is Bethlehem and they're they're built on top of these hills

743
00:59:51,840 --> 00:59:53,120
then

744
00:59:53,120 --> 00:59:55,120
Overlooking Bethlehem. I just

745
00:59:55,120 --> 01:00:02,440
Well, it was so sacred so special for me and the testimonies we had a testimony meeting in shepherds field

746
01:00:03,680 --> 01:00:06,960
Anyway thinking about these shepherds is quite amazing and I

747
01:00:07,480 --> 01:00:12,840
I actually like to think I like the tradition or the thought that these are just shepherds

748
01:00:13,000 --> 01:00:16,200
But maybe these are shepherds over seeing the

749
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:21,920
Pascal lambs or the lambs that would be sacrificed and offered at the

750
01:00:21,920 --> 01:00:28,960
Temple I like that thought because ultimately, you know there this is like a calling for them and they're

751
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:31,480
everything that their whole

752
01:00:31,520 --> 01:00:37,000
Lively hood and they're calling their their vocation is to the care for these lambs

753
01:00:37,640 --> 01:00:41,960
Well, who else to be a better witness of the lamb of God?

754
01:00:43,000 --> 01:00:45,000
Then these shepherds I

755
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:48,880
Just I love this part of the story

756
01:00:48,880 --> 01:00:55,200
And then the angels appearing in that when I think of the angels I think where was I yeah

757
01:00:55,520 --> 01:01:00,520
Where was I pretty mortally for this happen right? Yeah was it was a were we watching this?

758
01:01:00,520 --> 01:01:05,080
I know I wasn't part of the choir, but I would have liked to have thought I heard the choir

759
01:01:06,080 --> 01:01:11,840
You would have been there. Oh, yeah, you were in the choir for sure. Yeah, I know you were singing

760
01:01:11,960 --> 01:01:13,960
Don't think about that think if you were oh

761
01:01:14,240 --> 01:01:15,280
I

762
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:20,280
Would love to be in a choir of angels think about that. I'll bet you were yeah

763
01:01:20,280 --> 01:01:24,720
I mean there was no resurrection then these are pretty normal spirits, right?

764
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:31,200
There could have been translated beings, you know, I guess I mean there could have been maybe this the choir from the city of

765
01:01:31,200 --> 01:01:33,200
Enic, but I don't know

766
01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:40,480
Could have been translated being seen yeah, but I like to think where was I well did I get to hear this choir and

767
01:01:40,480 --> 01:01:47,440
And I just think it's one of the great parts of the Christmas story to this choir and singing

768
01:01:47,440 --> 01:01:49,840
You know glory to God in the highest

769
01:01:50,640 --> 01:01:52,640
Wow, I just

770
01:01:54,480 --> 01:02:00,560
So these shepherds I like thinking the shepherd boys they would have been

771
01:02:01,720 --> 01:02:05,480
Anyway prepared I believe they would be prepared for this and

772
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:10,440
And they act immediately what's the what's the words in

773
01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:14,760
In Luke chapter 2 near the bottom of the of the page

774
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,600
And there's a second column where it says they they went immediately. I mean they

775
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:22,480
as soon as they had the

776
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:24,680
command to go and

777
01:02:24,680 --> 01:02:28,280
Fear not and all of that peace on earth goodwill to work man

778
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:30,560
they

779
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:32,440
Haste

780
01:02:32,440 --> 01:02:39,200
Yeah, they will with haste, you know like immediately like round. Oh man

781
01:02:39,360 --> 01:02:46,640
They they were so I they had to be prepared to just you have that experience and then they just immediately respond

782
01:02:47,480 --> 01:02:50,400
and I think they kind of know right where to go and

783
01:02:51,440 --> 01:02:58,200
Maybe you've seen it in a vision and they find Mary and Joseph and the babe wrapped in swallowing clothes lying in a major

784
01:02:58,200 --> 01:03:04,800
And it's interesting that they bring that up twice and Luke brings that up twice about the manger and swaddling clothes

785
01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:10,320
Not just the Mary lay him in a manger, but they saw him in a manger. I mean, it's kind of a second witness

786
01:03:10,760 --> 01:03:12,760
Luke wants to make a big deal out of that

787
01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,800
I'm gonna read it. I want to read Luke chapter 2 verses 8 through

788
01:03:18,800 --> 01:03:24,680
Whatever and they were in the same country shepherds abiding by the field keeping watch over their flock by night

789
01:03:24,680 --> 01:03:30,940
And lo the angel of the Lord came upon them and the glory of the Lord shown round about them

790
01:03:30,940 --> 01:03:35,760
And they were sore afraid and the angel said unto them fear not for behold

791
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:41,320
I bring unto you good tidings of great joy. What shall be to all people for unto you is

792
01:03:41,600 --> 01:03:47,080
Born this day in the city of David a savior, which is Christ the Lord. We just pause right there

793
01:03:47,080 --> 01:03:51,260
I love when I hear for unto you is born this day

794
01:03:51,260 --> 01:03:57,640
Mmm unto who unto me unto me is born this day in the city

795
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:00,020
It is personal in the city of David a savior

796
01:04:00,540 --> 01:04:04,380
My savior, which is Christ the Lord and this shall be a sign unto you

797
01:04:04,380 --> 01:04:13,220
You shall find the babe wrapped in swaddling clothes lined in the manger and suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of heavenly hosts

798
01:04:13,220 --> 01:04:22,020
Praising God and saying glory to God in the highest and on earth peace goodwill towards men and it came to pass it as the angels

799
01:04:22,020 --> 01:04:25,380
Were gone away from them into heaven the shepherd said on one to another

800
01:04:25,700 --> 01:04:31,300
Let us go even unto Bethlehem and see this thing which has come to pass which the Lord hath made known unto us

801
01:04:31,300 --> 01:04:37,380
And they came with haste and found Mary and Joseph and the babe lying in the manger

802
01:04:37,380 --> 01:04:40,220
I read things and I like to kind of see the

803
01:04:40,220 --> 01:04:46,340
Maybe a metaphor in there, but you know, I think of how often it is that I'm sore afraid

804
01:04:46,420 --> 01:04:54,460
Yeah, sore afraid to accept for whatever reason my own inadequacies my my disbeliefs the way

805
01:04:54,620 --> 01:05:00,500
My my in my inaccurate view of the way I see myself not remembering who I am

806
01:05:00,500 --> 01:05:05,380
But I remember those times when I am sore afraid. Yeah, I'm sore afraid

807
01:05:05,380 --> 01:05:14,140
But if I listen there's always heavenly hosts encouraging me to to come to him come to see this thing

808
01:05:14,140 --> 01:05:18,660
Which has come to pass and and you know, I think it's important for all of us

809
01:05:18,660 --> 01:05:25,300
I take it as a personal importance in my own life that that you know when it's dark when it's

810
01:05:25,780 --> 01:05:32,100
When it when I'm doing my business is righteous and as sacred as it may be it can sometimes become a

811
01:05:32,100 --> 01:05:38,660
Load, you know, it can be heavy and it can be but when I when I hear that always a bad thing

812
01:05:38,980 --> 01:05:42,460
No, it's not but it's still heavy, you know, it's still weight

813
01:05:43,340 --> 01:05:45,580
And when I hear that and then when I

814
01:05:46,780 --> 01:05:53,900
Am and encouraged by that multitude or by the the heavenly hosts and I remember peace good will toward men

815
01:05:53,900 --> 01:05:58,080
That's peace toward good will toward me and then and then

816
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:02,240
Well after that's happened if I will take that same attitude

817
01:06:02,240 --> 01:06:07,000
Let us go now even unto where ever Jesus may be found and in this case

818
01:06:07,000 --> 01:06:12,840
It was Bethlehem and see these things which have come to pass which the Lord hath made known unto us

819
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:18,040
You know, there's so much that can come to pass to us as we study the atonement of Jesus Christ

820
01:06:18,040 --> 01:06:26,760
if we study our way and what it means in our lives to turn away from anything that the effects of the

821
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:33,720
The fall of Adam and Eve which we've spent the last three weeks talking about when we turn away from that when we accept the

822
01:06:34,320 --> 01:06:39,080
Invitation to come and see this thing which has come to pass and then we hastily go there and

823
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:45,040
And whatever that experience brings us that when we are there in the presence of Jesus Christ

824
01:06:45,040 --> 01:06:50,400
Who is the answer to all of the problems all of the effects of the fall of Adam and Eve?

825
01:06:50,480 --> 01:06:53,440
What a joyful thing that can be not just for those shepherds

826
01:06:53,440 --> 01:06:57,120
But for me and you and for all of us today, right? Yeah

827
01:06:57,640 --> 01:07:02,160
And then it's recorded in the next verse or two after that that they

828
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:06,360
Immediately went into the city. Yeah, anyway, it's the night

829
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:15,640
Apparently and they go into the city. I love in chat in verse 17 when it's when basically the shepherds were bearing testimony of it

830
01:07:15,640 --> 01:07:19,360
Right and they were I mean like you said earlier a witness

831
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:23,680
They're right. They were the witness and then they bore testimony of it and then on the next page

832
01:07:23,720 --> 01:07:25,720
Then people that are hearing it are wondering

833
01:07:26,880 --> 01:07:29,440
So we it was wondering. Yes

834
01:07:30,360 --> 01:07:32,760
Witness. Yes, wondering. Yes

835
01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:38,800
Yeah, I love that and how many of them maybe believed and went to help the baby as well

836
01:07:38,800 --> 01:07:42,280
We don't know how many of them just oh, these are shepherds

837
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:49,920
These are silly shepherds and discounted it didn't go look you never never did enjoy the witness that they could have enjoyed

838
01:07:50,520 --> 01:07:53,760
So anyway, I wanted to think I just have to

839
01:07:54,320 --> 01:07:59,520
Focus on 19 because I have a picture upstairs that my son Dakota gave me and

840
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:08,840
It says in there and this is verse 19 that says but Mary kept all these things and pondered them in her heart

841
01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:15,320
I think about how a mom just holds things so sacred so sacred

842
01:08:16,600 --> 01:08:21,800
That's a good place to end. That's that's one of my favorite verses in Luke as well. Yeah

843
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:24,200
Mary

844
01:08:24,200 --> 01:08:29,120
How's it how she said again? I love all these things in her heart, but Mary kept all

845
01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:35,000
These things and pondered them in her heart. I'm sure she's still pondering

846
01:08:35,560 --> 01:08:37,560
I would

847
01:08:37,560 --> 01:08:39,920
You imagine that right what she's thinking

848
01:08:44,600 --> 01:08:46,800
Deb sings the song Mary did you know

849
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:53,760
You know, she'll sit at the piano and play that sing that sometimes and and it's hard not to get emotional when you hear that

850
01:08:53,760 --> 01:08:56,040
Because you you do wonder did you know?

851
01:08:56,480 --> 01:09:03,880
Did you know Mary that your son would grow up and all of this would be part of his earthly experience and none of it

852
01:09:03,880 --> 01:09:07,320
Would be comfortable and easy for him let alone you

853
01:09:07,960 --> 01:09:11,400
right well, yeah, there's a lot more to this story and

854
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:15,840
Maybe we can finish that up next next week. Okay, we'll do it and

855
01:09:16,400 --> 01:09:20,920
Talked about the the coming of the wise men, which is probably about a year later

856
01:09:21,440 --> 01:09:25,520
You know the false tradition of Christmas which I love this tradition

857
01:09:25,520 --> 01:09:28,560
Is that the wise men are there on the night of Jesus's birth?

858
01:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,800
But actually they don't show up and tell about probably

859
01:09:31,800 --> 01:09:39,960
Within a year later just because based on the rest of the story and what here it does with infants who are to and under

860
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:44,480
so most people believe Jesus could have been maybe up to two years old or

861
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:50,240
Sometime after the first year of Jesus that the wise men possibly

862
01:09:50,920 --> 01:09:53,120
showed up after seeing the star and

863
01:09:53,680 --> 01:09:58,920
Taking maybe as much of the year to travel to where they needed to travel. Well, we'll talk about the

864
01:09:58,920 --> 01:10:06,440
Yeah, we'll plan to do that. We have a Mary's magnificent, you know those great verses in Luke 2 about her praising God and

865
01:10:08,000 --> 01:10:10,000
The presentation

866
01:10:10,400 --> 01:10:13,360
Simeon and Anna and there there's just so much more in this

867
01:10:13,680 --> 01:10:20,560
Yeah, there's there's no way and then you know, there's a few secular things that maybe we should take a look at too and tie them back as well

868
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:26,920
You know as part of our Christmas celebration, so so hey everybody. Thanks so much for being with us today Deb

869
01:10:26,920 --> 01:10:29,600
Thanks for joining us. It's been a pleasure to have you

870
01:10:30,080 --> 01:10:32,080
Wish you could do this more with us, but

871
01:10:33,040 --> 01:10:36,200
game thanks so much everybody for being with us we

872
01:10:36,680 --> 01:10:41,040
Plan to take this little kind of this walk down Christmas Lane

873
01:10:41,040 --> 01:10:45,000
If you will as we had talked about these important things all leading up

874
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:47,600
I mean the reason we're really doing this which is timely

875
01:10:47,640 --> 01:10:54,040
But all leading up it really to what we want to talk about soon, which is the Easter that's home of Jesus Christ

876
01:10:54,040 --> 01:10:59,280
And and how he overcame the fall. Yeah, and we're excited about that. Thanks for being with us

877
01:10:59,280 --> 01:11:01,560
We look forward to being with you again next week

878
01:11:01,560 --> 01:11:07,600
I hope your holiday preparations are going smooth and and that you're feeling the peace and the spirit

879
01:11:07,600 --> 01:11:24,360
That is intended to be felt during this time of year until we see you or talk to you again. Be well. Take care everybody