Hey there everybody and welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
Scott and David Durfey here as always excited about another day.
How you doing Dave?
Yeah, fired up Scott.
Fired up.
Excited to talk about the fall.
We are in a great time of year.
This episode will be coming out right after Thanksgiving and you know I just, Dave I've
been thinking a lot about that.
We've been talking this morning about a lot of things that we're thankful for and a lot
of other things but you know I've been thinking a lot about what I'm thankful for this year.
Well probably been a little more I don't know, poignant a little more in my life this year
than other years past.
Boy I tell you every time I do that exercise and I've actually kind of tried to make it
part of my step 10 you know we talk about in recovery where we do the step 10 take a
personal inventory at night and as part of mine I try and write down what I'm thankful
for.
Well I've just tried to just focus on what I'm thankful for this week and what an exercise
has been.
You know it's so important you know I've read recently about how important that is for anyone
of any religion, atheist or not, religious or not you know I mean it's important for
anybody I think to recognize gratitude and how even keeping a gratitude journal whether
you believe or not believe whether you're whatever religion or not religion can really
change your perception of the world and eventually perception of yourself and as we've talked
about so far on in this season perception and identity as everything and I wanted to
ask begin today by asking our listeners did you think your heavenly father this past week
for the fall did you think him that you're fallen did you thank him for Adam and Eve
and celebrate their choice to fall into a telestial state I mean really Scott we don't
that's something that if we would be more grateful for it would immediately make a difference
in how we see mortality how we see live life was not meant it was never meant to be pain
free or pleasure filled that this world is telestial world is a place where immediately
when you think of the fall you should think of the atonement of Jesus Christ when you
think of Adam and Eve they should point you directly and quickly to Jesus Christ and I
mean there those two those two pillars and and points of doctrine always go together
I was thinking in the temple this week in fact I performed a live marriage last Saturday
and I was trying to express this to the couple of the importance of the endowment and why
we spend so much time talking about Adam and Eve in the endowment and what that had to
do with them as a couple like Adam and Eve and that the reason we spend so much time
on speaking about Adam and Eve in the temple Scott is because it tells us why we need a
savior and redeemer it answers the fundamental question of why I mean I've heard people say
elder haven Bruce Haven actually wrote wrote an article about this so many people have
asked over the years why do we spend so much time in the temple endowment talking about
creation in the fall we spend such little time hardly any time talking about the story
or the events from the life of Jesus Christ and it occurred to him one day and I know
it's true I felt the same that the reason we spend so much time on that is because the
story of Jesus Christ or his life it tells us and teaches us about what he did but it's
the story of Adam and Eve and the events of the fall that explained to us why he had to
do it why he was willing to do it and it it also Scott it tells us how badly we need it
and how we can access it through ordinances and covenants and bringing us into a relationship
with him and that through him Jesus Christ that we can enter back into the presence of
God and live in our heavenly home and be together forever as families I mean that's that's what
the endowment is all about anyway I was trying to explain that all to a couple that I sealed
in the temple and I felt the spirit of that and I know they did too I just think it's
really important for us for all of us all of our listeners to understand the sacred
role that Adam and Eve played in bringing about the plan of redemption without the creation
without the fall there would be no atonement and without the atonement of Jesus Christ
all of the creation in the fall would have been wasted so those three creation fall atonement
make up the three pillars of the of the entire plan of redemption and I love talking about
the fall and it just seems as though that's not a popular topic in the church but it sure
sure is emphasized in the temple and as we talk about the fall it definitely does bring
up some memory of past years or decades or whatever when it seems like that as a I don't
know as a people that we just haven't understood and this is no fault of the church this is
not a theological problem criticism it's not at all not at all maybe a cultural thing for
sure that's how these things tend to be perpetuated that lack of understanding has also kept us
from a choice and a sweet sweet relationship and an understanding of the atonement of Jesus
Christ it's a little bit different you know especially if we learn you know that and especially
I should say as we learn that the atonement of Jesus Christ was not God's backup plan
that it was all even the fall of Adam and Eve was part of the orchestrated plan of happiness
absolutely the great plan of happiness and you know at Adam and Eve declared that Lehi
taught that Adam fell right this is Lehi in 2nd Nephi 227 Adam fell that men might be
and men are that they might have joy it's taught throughout the Book of Mormon for a
great price that they may taste the bitter that they may know the sweet I mean this is
taught so often and so so well so powerfully in the Book of Mormon Scott and maybe we can
just look at some of those foundational scriptures I think on the fall in the Book of Mormon
and I think one that it just really impresses me is the brother of Jared and his declaration
of the of the blessing of the fall I don't know if I think that's what he's feeling
here is he prays about it he confesses his unworthiness but what a prayer I mean here
is a prophet the brother of Jared who in the same chapter ether chapter three is going
to see the Lord Jesus Christ after he offers this prayer Scott so I mean that should tell
us something about his faith and about his worthiness and about where he stands in relationship
to the Lord because he's going to see the pre mortal existence being Jesus Christ in
this chapter anyway verse two oh Lord thou has said that we must be encompassed about
by the floods he's he's been commanded as you know just to remind our listeners he's
been commanded to build eight barges and he's concerned that there's no light in the barges
and how do we get air in the barges and so he's he's praying about this and he asked
the Lord in chapter two what to do about it and the Lord says well just put in a hole
in the ship to get air and you know he did tells him how to get air and then he says
well what do you want me to do about giving you a light I it's so great about how the
Lord makes the brother of Jared struggle right we all struggle in the fall how he wanted
the brother of Jared to struggle and to be somewhat spiritually self-reliant by learning
how to get come to light and he gets these molten rocks and he's taken them to the Lord
and now he prays oh Lord thou has said that we must be encompassed about by the floods
now behold oh Lord and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before
thee for we know that thou art holy and dwell us in the heavens and that we are unworthy
before thee this pretty powerful prophet Scott and he's confessing his unworthiness
before the Lord we know that we are unworthy before thee and he's kind of doing it collectively
for his people as well because of the fall our natures have become evil continually wow
what what a confession but also what a statement of not not just confession Scott but just a
reality check here right and he's I don't think he's feeling sorry for himself and he's not blaming
the fall on any of this he just saying this is the way it is this is the way it is well I'm human
I'm just human and he's recognizing and and I think even celebrating his fallen state
because of the fall our natures have become evil continually nevertheless oh Lord thou has given
us a commandment that we must call upon thee that from thee we may receive according to our desires
and the prayer goes on and a few verses later the Lord appears to him well in which the Lord
says never has men come before me with such great faith as thou hast so I just think it's
it's really important and and the brother of Jared shows us a pattern here how we should confess
and thank God for our fallen our fallen state our fallen nature now he was not saying it's
important to know what he was not saying in that prayer Scott he he didn't take it necessarily as
his personal identity but he's saying my nature you're not saying he's evil he's not saying he's
evil he's saying my nature by nature my weakness because of the fall my nature is evil continually
the prophet Brigham young had taught multiple times that the nature of of mankind is with us
always we never are we never will be completely free of it in this life and that because of the
nature of mankind that we we we do have deficiencies we have tendencies we all are affected by
temptation and we sin and that will never be free from that in this life Scott I think it's just so
critical to our identity to know that we are fallen to know that we're lost that we're centered
we're going to read some scriptures where the book more prophets say we are carnal we are
sensual we are devilish we're we're we're we are sinners but that our identity never has to become
the prominent part of our identity never has to become that I had an experience as a bishop
years and years ago and I had an individual who had had a long five year over five year
terrible addiction with pornography and he came in and he he confessed that to me and he and he
wept he cried and and you know this this man was a wonderful man just you know active really active
in the church faithful and had a wonderful family the wife beautiful wife a number good
number of children and anyway I loved and respected him so much and I sat there and listened to him
confess his sin and he kept in confessing it he kept describing it as his desire it's my it's my I
get this desire or anyway he's describing this whole sin as a as his desire and it just wasn't
set right with me the spirit was making me feel uneasy as I sat there and listened to him and
finally I said to him no wait wait wait wait just a minute wait just a minute I know you
I know you and you keep you keep describing this addiction as if it were your desire I said what
if you instead of saying it like that what what if you do thought of this your desire instead of
being your desire what if you describe your addiction as a temptation as a temptation and not as a
personal desire and he he stopped and he looked at me and I could be kind of you know close when I
and when I could tell it was just really thinking about this then I wasn't really sure what what I
had said or what I said why I had said it and he said bishop so what you're saying to me is that
this is coming from an outside source and I said yeah that's what I'm saying to you this is coming
from an out this is a this is a temptation you're being tempted just coming from an outside source
and he said so what you're saying to me is I'm not a pervert I'm wow I looked at him and I said
that's what I'm saying I I know you are not a pervert I knew him I knew him I knew in fact I
asked him Scott what is the deepest desire of your heart then he started to weep and he said the
deepest desire of my heart is to be with my wife and family forever and ever and I said that's what
I thought that's what I thought you would say so why are you describing this pornography addiction
as your desire the deepest desire of your heart is to have an eternal family no you are not a
pervert and then he said one more thing so what you're saying to me is I can overcome this
and I said no that is not what I'm saying to you
what I what I am trying to say to you is that with Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice
you can overcome this well then that changed the focus Scott and and boy to his credit he
stayed true and faithful and and I trust and pray that he has completely stayed clean anyway I I
just think it's really important for me for you for all of our listeners to know that that we are
fallen that because of our natures we are evil continually but that I'm not evil you're not
evil we do sin which qualifies us to be sinners but we are also saints and that's reminiscent of
the old Indian chief right who's whose grandson came to him and was saying grandpa you know I
I I feel this I feel like I'm two people I feel like I'm two people and by the way president K
used to always talk about the dual nature of man you know that we are human beings having a spiritual
experience that's you know versus spiritual beings having a human experience and this dual nature of
mankind and this this war that goes on and and this this young teenage native american
explaining that to the wise man his grandpa and the grandpa says well let me let me teach you
something there's there's two dogs or two wolves inside each of us and they're always at war with
one another they're always competing for your attention and the young man said so who wins
and the grandfather and the wise man said whichever one you feed whichever one you feed
whichever one you focus on I just think it's really important Scott for us that to confess and
actually to be grateful for our humanness in our fallen state but to not allow that to dominate
our focus or our identity. If we go back to this prayer in ether three this is in verse two
because of the fall our natures have become evil he doesn't say I've become evil right you've made
this point I'm just I'm just reiterating it he said he doesn't say you've become evil or I've
become evil but our natures have become evil which is true and that is such an important
delineation that we absolutely have to make in our own lives because the enemy the accuser
the accuser will will tell us to think that we're perverts or whatever and identify with whatever
label I decided to give myself but he says that the that our natures have become evil continually
right not me my nature what an important confession in other words I'm a sinner my nature by nature
by nature I'm a sinner right and so often you know when we when we talk amongst ourselves with
our friends and this is one of the common things that we hear so often now you need to stop judging
yourself so harshly you need to start you need to stop seeing yourself in that way which is
absolutely the truth yeah right there is nothing inaccurate in that statement we do need to stop
seeing ourselves in ways that aren't aligned with the way our heavenly father sees us that's
that's the key we've spent episodes already on that and the and its importance but when I when I
recognize that I struggle with or that I am how is it I my nature has become on has become evil
continually so there's two things I need to recognize there one is is the continuation of
this evil nature is probably going to perpetuate into the resurrection into the final judgment
that evil nature will be with me and it will be something that I need to contend with and that I
need to identify in its true form right nature yeah Scott nature and so when we see that what we're
really doing when I see myself or when I recognize my fallen nature what I'm really doing and I'm not
making a judgment on myself I'm just simply making an objective observation based on true principles
and that objective observation what that does now is it leads me into an acknowledgement of my
absolute dependence getting back to the that's the key getting back to the the endowment presentation
that you were talking about earlier right that's why we talk about it that's why it's so important
that we do right we have to understand our absolute dependence because of our continual
evil nature not person evil nature and I keep reiterating that and emphasizing that because
I just because we'll forget it we'll all at some point go back to beating ourselves up and we'll
forget it's my nature that's continually evil not me and so you know it's it's understanding
that my continual nature that's what I am that's what I deal with but that's not who I am exactly
who I am is a redeemed son of my heavenly father a brother of a loving savior who did not heed to
temptation who lived a sinless life and did all that was necessary so that his power could be
accessed by me through his atonement and thereby I overcome that continual evil nature it just
it just answers Scott so many problems that people deal with and it's just such an important
truth and realization and understanding of who we are and again who's we are we are we are
our sons and daughters of Adam and Eve that is a truth absolute and the I get we quoted this
scripture last week I quoted it in the podcast I give unto men weakness right ether 1227 I give
unto men weakness well that's through the fall we through the fall through mortality we are all
weak our our natures are evil continually that's all true but the most important thing in that
scripture in ether 1227 is my grace is sufficient for all who humble themselves before me so I just
hope that we can celebrate the fall our fallenness our human nature and experience we can celebrate
that because immediately when we think of it it should point us towards and help us to focus upon
the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement we talked about Nephi last last week Scott oh
wretched man that I am right second Nephi chapter 4 verse 17 oh wretched man that I am but in the
very next verses what is he what is that pointing to what does he acknowledge but I know in whom
I have trusted that's it that's where that's where it goes it's it's like my wife I mean my my wife
would y'all put her on par with with anybody up there as soon as she feels bad about her
fallen nature and even my wife and the unbelievable saint that she is is a you know she sins
she's a sinner she's she's her nature's evil continually too she's no better than the brother
Jared for sure but she's amazing as soon as she sins or she gets discouraged because of her
fallen nature she just has this little trigger now which we all need to learn and she bows her head
and she says thank you not because she's a sinner but because she knows she needs
Jesus Christ and because of him she's a saint I mean you just bow your head and you say thank you
thank you for this experience and thank you for providing thank you heavenly father for providing
me a savior that's what that's what she's saying when she bows her head and says thank you thank
you heavenly father for my savior my redeemer Jesus Christ so to all of our listeners we cannot
appreciate or be grateful it's thanksgiving scott of all the things and it's going to be
christmas and for all the things that we should be thankful for it's Jesus christ and his atonement
but you can never never fully appreciate it understand your need for it or feel the level
of gratitude that we should all have for it unless we understand and we thank god literally thank god
for the fall and for adam and for eve and confess our fallen nature before him continually
it we're never I mean we all feel as god we're we should and we should again I said this last week
what I'm just saying it again we should never try to make our identity to what tempts us our
temptations should never become a part of our identity you know for example in the in the
world of addiction scott I know there's this popular phrase right once an addict always an addict
and all that you speak to this but that has that always bothers me a little bit because if that
becomes their identity if they see themselves as being always an addict now I know the nature is
always there the temptation is always there right I don't know if you're ever totally free from it
but to see yourself as always an addict doesn't would this does seem to me to be necessarily
a principle or a thought that would be edifying or that would strengthen you well what do you what
do you say to individuals who say once an addict always an addict well first off I think that
it's important that we understand what's meant by that right because as is the case in so many
things in our world words can have different meanings right and so when I call myself an
alcoholic or an addict and we can use those interchangeably for this discussion but when
I and I do I refer to myself as I'm an alcoholic yeah recovering the alcohol yeah and that's the
key you know recovery yeah but I don't say that I mean it's it's not uncommon that I say I'm an
alcoholic and you know and it to people that don't know you know I'll follow it up with who's in
recovery or and I have 25 years sober but I'm an alcoholic and and what that's saying is what
ether or excuse me what the brother of Jared said I'm just I'm just recognizing the nature of the
continual nature of my of my alcoholism it's just me being evil it's just in my evil nature it's not
me it's my evil nature but that so there's two there's two things people will always often
read I shouldn't say always will often refer to themselves you go to an AA meeting and you know
I go to an AA meeting and if I share this Saturday with 25 years I will introduce myself I hi my name
Scott and I'm an alcoholic just like in the movies yeah you know what did they say hi Scott yeah they do
they actually hi Scott yeah they actually do it's you know yeah you know and I'll just throw
the same parenthetically I will tell you and I've said this as I've shared my story those those were
the first words of hope I heard what what were the hi Scott hi Scott well my name's my name's Scott
and I'm an alcoholic well hi Scott I felt at home I felt welcomed I felt part of something I felt
embraced by a solution a group of people who carried a solution and so you know when we say that
we're not necessarily referring when I say once an alcoholic always an alcoholic once an addict
always an alcoholic all that means is is that this has got to be a part of my life for the rest of my
life this this and when I say this this recovery part you know the recovering part has to be part
of my life for the rest of my life and and and and probably chief among them is second step to
recognize that Jesus Christ is my salvation through this that through him and only through and by him
am I able to overcome any continual evil in my life yeah alcoholism drug addiction whatever so
you know I think I think to the person who's not familiar with the culture around alcoholism
or I should say recovery from alcoholism drug addiction and those other types of things when
they hear that I've even had people say I hate to label myself as an alcoholic I don't want to
be labeled as an alcoholic the rest of my life well that's just another word for you're a fallen man
and this this this particular and labels aren't good labels are negative and in this particular
part of your fallenness we we do need to just kind of identify it to help us remember how important
it is that we stay to help to help us remember how important it is that we not just stay vigilant
towards working steps but that we stay extra vigilant on a relationship with a higher that's
with a power that's greater than ourselves that can restore us to sanity if we take certain steps
yeah yeah and you know Scott that's exactly what I the the temple endowment tries to teach us right
is that each of us are Adam and Eve and we have we we are in a celestial state and immediately we
should build our altars and offer sacrifice and and think about the Lamb of God and Jesus Christ
and thank Him that because of His suffering and His death that our suffering will not be in vain
it'll be consecrated for our gain and that through Him we will have eternal life the Book of Mormon
just teaches us over and over and over again Scott I mean look I just I'm going to go to the
mosaic chapter 16 I think it's one of the great great discourses on doctrine on this doctrine
it's it's a benedict the prophet of benedict keep teaching King Noah in his court and I believe
it's chapter 16 that definitely converts Alma the senior that one high priest who who became a saint
all that followed that because of Alma the younger and his son and
anyway it changes these people this one of the greatest discourses on the the fall and the atonement
it is chapter chapter is really 14 15 and 16 a benedict teaching King Noah says that old serpent
did beguile our first parents I'm in verse three middle of the verse which was the curse of their
fall which was the cause of all mankind get that Scott all mankind becoming carnal sensual
devilish knowing evil from good subjecting themselves to the devil thus all mankind were lost
all mankind Scott were lost and behold they would have been endlessly lost were it not for
that God that redeemed his people from their lost and fallen state but remember that he that
persists in his own carnal nature and goes on in the ways of sin and rebellion against God
remaneth in his fallen state and the devil hath all power over him therefore he is as though
there was no redemption made being an enemy to God and also as the devil an enemy to God
and now if Christ had not come into the world I love this verse and now and I think about
Christmas or dumb and read this verse and now if Christ had not come into the world
old speaking of things to come as though they had already come because this is 148 BC
approximately there could have been no redemption so even before Christ was born Scott even before
he was born have been a die the prophet and Nephi 600 years before Christ was born what did they
think of they knew they were lost they knew they were fallen they knew they were subject to a world
that was powered in many respects by the devil they they knew that they were living in a world
of sin and that they felt the effects of that every day but what did they think of
their focus was on redemption then upon Jesus Christ their Savior and their Redeemer
so if we need to celebrate the fall but we don't need to that doesn't need to be our identity
we need to know that we are sinners we're all just sinners helping sinners but when I think of that
we need to immediately see Jesus in the garden and on the cross and we need to have our minds
and our thoughts as he commanded us to do be ever upon him look unto me in every thought so as soon
as we we become discouraged by our fallen nature and our state of carnality that we are never free
from really I mean I you feel the temptation every day I feel temptation every day I know the prophets
feel temptations every day I think sometimes the closer you get to Jesus the more temptation you
feel the more small things you know anyway bring them young taught Joseph Smith thought we're never
we're never totally free from it but through the through receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost we
can become spiritually alive we can be born again and we can in many respects be free from the
continual continual effects of sin even though the brother of Jared said because of the fall
his nature was evil continually that's an important confession and to recognize it but we don't have
to be sinning we don't have to be complacent about sin I think it's so important that we learn how to
hate the sins but love the sinners and that includes ourselves Scott in my own self I can
abhor sin but I can love me and recognize that it's because of the fall I feel these things
not because that's who I am is because of the fall I'm tempted but that's not who I am is because
of the fall I have certain propensities tendencies weaknesses of the flesh but that's not who I am
I am a son of God and I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and have been born again through him
and I can become a joint heir of Christ through the ordinances and the power of godliness
found in the ordinances of the restored gospel of Jesus I mean that's what should be our focus
in our identity and that makes all the difference it does make all the difference in fact it is all
the difference it is the difference not all the difference it is the difference right and it's
through that that we how it's through that that develops our ability to see ourselves but it's
also through that that develops our ability to see him Jesus Christ for what he is and what he
what he he has done and and all of that very key you know when when as you're going through
talking about all of that our identities I and I and I have big pictures to go with these words
we all do we all have pictures to go with these words about you know our identity is on who on
what we've done wrong sometimes and and our fallen natures and and that is a big big big problem
because it is and the accuser is what keeps those pictures before us continually that's
exactly right and and he can make those pictures seem even uglier than what they really are if we
if you know if we allow that to happen and see more real than they really are yeah one of the
problems that I think is semi-universal is that we as people we as humans we as those who are
struggling with this evil continual may continually evil nature is the way that we judge ourselves
the way that we talk to ourselves condemn the way that we can shame and put ourselves down and
compare ourselves to others right and everything like that if I'm sponsoring somebody or if even
me if if if I'm sponsoring somebody and I get a phone call and I haven't heard from them a week
a month sometimes longer then I get a phone call eventually and that phone call says and I say
man you've been kind of gone hey wall where you been well I've been ashamed I've been embarrassed
I've been whatever we call it on a runner sometimes and and and what that means is is that somebody's
made a mistake they've slipped up and now their identity all comes back to this is who I am I'm
to slip up I'm the mess up yeah I'm the mistake I'm the and that's what I'm a pervert that's what
sainton wants us to believe he wants us to believe that it's me that that is who I am right and and
if he can get us to do that and and for whatever reason and whatever tools are used I guess this
is part of the enmity right that we that we have but we in the bruising of our heels but we definitely
get those heels bruised as we go through life and just see ourselves that way now a lot of that
and I would probably say maybe even most of that comes when we don't understand him when we don't
really know him when we don't because we have these experiences based on human experiences
and all of our reaction to life is based on our human interaction and our interpersonal
relationships that we have here and so for example if a father was going to be you know if I had a
dad and this isn't my dad but if I had a dad who's going to be extremely disappointed in me for
something that I had done then I am going to let that affect me well if we see Heavenly Father in
that same realm and we don't see him in the purest perfect form that we do then we can also make
that part of our experience here and that can compound the problem another big saint tool of
satans. Yeah absolutely Scott you made reference to the the bruising of our heel or the bruising
of man's heel and maybe some of our listeners aren't as familiar with that but that's in Genesis
chapter 3 it's in the Prograde Price Moses chapter 4 when after Adam and Eve have partaken of the
fruit he addresses Adam and there are certain consequences for the partaking of the fruit
right he'll he'll work by the sweat of his brow and then there's a there's a consequence for
Eve and that you know the some of the the curse of Adam and Eve that we all experience
that she will bear with great affliction children and and then he and then he curses this he talks
to the serpent and he says I'm going to start in it's verse 20 in the Prograde Price Moses chapter
4 verse 20 I the Lord sent unto the serpent because thou hast done this thou shalt be cursed above all
cattle and above all every beast of the field upon thy belly shalt thou go and doush thou shalt
eat all the days of thy life and I will put enmity this is important Scott I will put enmity
between thee and the woman between thy seed and her seed and he shall have power and he shall
bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise his hill in the temple it becomes even a little more clear
than that that through the atonement of Jesus Christ God even though Satan can
bruise our hill that through the atonement of Jesus Christ Satan will be crushed I mean that's
the meaning of that that no doubt because of the fall yeah because of a fallen state a celestial
world hey we're bruised every day but because he Jesus Christ was bruised for our iniquities
and he felt all of the suffering and he took upon himself all of the pains and punishment for all
sin and for all sicknesses and for all negative consequences all negative consequences of the
fall are swallowed up and suffered by Jesus Christ in his offering to us in his atonement
Satan is crushed we need to understand that and so when we feel when we feel him bruising our hill
we need to be thoughtful and have our minds go immediately to our gratitude for Jesus Christ
and his atonement so when we think of the fall this important doctrine it should point us
to the atonement of of Jesus Christ and I hope that our listeners will feel a greater need
as for Jesus Christ as they feel greater gratitude and have greater understanding
for the blessing that Adam and Eve I just you know Adam and Eve are two four ordained individuals
I think elder mcconkey refer to them maybe being as you know Jesus Christ is the most important
person that's been born on this this earth maybe the second to to him was and I'm not
comparing men and women here I'm just saying maybe the second most important man would have been Adam
and maybe Mary the mother of Jesus most important woman born on this earth and maybe just second
her is Eve I just we need to celebrate Adam and Eve and the choice that they made and I
here's something else we have to celebrate be thankful for is Latter-day Saints
is that there is no other Christian church I've I've been I've read recently again some of the
biblical commentaries of the fall and how everybody condemns the fall that where's no there's not
another Christian church that believes that the fall was actually part of God's plan and it was
supposed to be that way I just think that's I just think that's one of the great blessings of the
restoration of the gospel it's one of the great blessings of the Book of Mormon it's one of the
great blessings of having prophets seers and revelators on this earth is that we can celebrate
the fall while at the same time give gratitude and thanks and realize our dependence upon Jesus
Christ but all others believe that that the fall should have never taken place they believe that
Adam and Eve did a terrible thing and that we could have been all born and raised in a
paradicycle glory and we don't believe that and I just think it it should make life it should
make life more bearable for all of us understanding that this was part of God's plan it's not a
mistake there's not a mistake in God's plan or in his creations this is all part of the
of what he wanted to happen and as a result he he he made ample provision to cover it
to compensate us and and thank God for our understanding of the fall and the atonement
of Jesus Christ you know you're talking about how we are I think the only one that the sees
that the only religion that sees the fall of Adam and Eve the way that we do well you know that's
a tactic that Satan used even in the garden right so here so so listen for example you know when
Satan comes to Eve in the garden right you know he says take take a bite of this fruit
and she says I can't do that she says I can't even touch it exactly he said oh come on you
you're not gonna die yeah you're not gonna die right you know so so what's he doing is he's trying
to get Eve to even in the very beginning question God yeah to even put a question mark in her mind
around okay and and and when you're talking about that that's how others continually see it
well that's Satan still getting us to try to question God you're right and when we do that
that's when doubt can creep in that's when the spirit of the adversary can creep in and kind of
overshadow all other things and and I think perhaps maybe just maybe that that could be one of the
reasons that Satan has done such a powerful attempt in in changing the way that we see this
is because that if he can thwart our vision on the fall of Adam and Eve then he can definitely
mess up the way we see the atonement of Jesus Christ yeah that's a great that's a great observation
Scott I I love your thought on that and it's true and you know Paul talks about that that Eve was
beguiled yeah well she was beguiled yeah she was beguiled she she was absolutely deceived by by
Satan now she she finally realized she finally realized I don't know what point she realized
that yeah yeah I do need to become I do need to become like my heavenly father and I do need to
I do need to to leave this garden in order to I mean at some point she realized that hey we can't
keep the first commandment the first commandment was right to multiply and replenish the earth
the second commandment given by God was don't partake of the fruit now some people see that
that's a great contradiction and and it's it's really more it's really cleared up in in moses
chapter three because in moses chapter three he says nevertheless you may choose for thyself
then Eve had come to realize that these two commandments I'm gonna have to choose to leave
this garden in order to multiply and replenish the earth she knew that after she had partaken
is it became more real to her and she got Adam to partake as well so all of this is part of
the plan and some people say well why did God give contradicting commandments well brother
matthews rumber j matthews he has a whole talk on that and it's because of of the of the sacred
nature of agency God can make them fall they had to choose for themselves and I don't know how long
they were in the garden before all this happened right we don't have any sequential timing of of
these events that they could have been in the garden for I think a long long time before Eve said hey
we got it we add them we've got we got to get on with the keeping that first commandment to
multiply and replenish the earth and for whatever reason in the garden of Eden we don't understand
we don't have any more details than what the scriptures provide us we don't know if it's that
they couldn't procreate or if they just wouldn't procreate we don't know that's ridiculous to
probably even philosophically discuss or wonder but but she came to understand that we have to
move on from here and there was deception she was beguiled but she made the choice and I love we
read the scripture last week that I love that it's in the temple endowment about her rejoicing
her rejoicing in the fall that they might be able to have children and they might be able to progress
I just hope all of us can see our our fallen state as a state of progression and that
what as soon as we think about our fallen natures which are evil continually that we can rejoice
in our absolute dependence on Jesus Christ being such an important part and the fulfillment
of God's plan of redemption you know I don't think we read last week scott it's always been
impressive to me about king benjamin and what he says about the fall even after people are born again
even after they're born again even after they're converted even after they're forgiven of all their
sins scott what does what does he say to them I mean here they are rejoicing this in moseiah chapter
four even after they're rejoicing and they talk about how they now have a piece of conscience
because they've taken upon themselves the name of Jesus Christ in a in a more sacred and significant
way than even even baptism really they they cry out oh have mercy and apply the atoning blood
and then verse four they have joy and peace of conscience and then right after that king
benjamin says to them in verse five behold if the knowledge of the goodness of god at this time
has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness and your worthless and fallen state that is so
interesting that he kind of reverses this and he says I hope that the goodness of christ helps you
to remember your fallen worthless state isn't that interesting and then he goes on and he talks about
hey let the knowledge of the goodness of god this is verse six let the goodness of god and his
matchless power and his wisdom and patience and his long suffering towards the children of man and
also the atonement which has been prepared from the foundation of the world let that let that be
what you focus on focus on that but it's because of the goodness of god and the atonement of Jesus
christ that should help you to remember how worthless and the let me put that different
of your worthless and fallen state that you're in and there's Scott there's a difference between
state and trait I use teach this in in my course at the institute you know he it's a fallen state
state is different than trait our trait is that we have spiritual DNA in us we have gods DNA
spiritually speaking spirit DNA in us that that's what we should identify with and that should be
be we should consider that to be our traits and yet we are in such a fallen state and then in verse
11 he talks always retain in remembrance I mean the middle of verse 11 always retain and
rememberance the greatness of god and your own nothingness and his goodness and long suffering
towards you unworthy creatures and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility calling on the name
of the lord daily and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come
meaning Jesus christ the birth then the life and the death and the resurrection of Jesus christ
to come I like the the first part of 11 to and I'm going to read it again I said under you I have
as I've said before that as you have come and and this is key because this is setting us up in
order for us to be able to do that these these are prerequisite to all of that yeah that if you've
come to the knowledge and the glory of god or if you have known of his goodness and there's a difference
yeah you know to know god and to know of his goodness I mean there there's that's an adjective
and to know it and to be grateful for that carries a great deal of gratitude a ton of weight when it
comes to this as you have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love and have received a
remission of your sins which to me are one and the same which causes such exceeding great joy
in your souls even so I would that you should remember and always retain in remembrance the
greatness of god and then it goes on and your own nothingness and and so in order for us to retain
in a remission or to retain a remembrance of the greatness of god that that is that that presumes
that we once knew yeah of the greatness right yeah that we understood stood it and we still do
the way that we understand it and the way that we still do is to taste of his love and to fill
the promise and the hope of his redeeming love through that's a daily thing Scott it is and
sometimes it's more than daily hourly moment by moment I was talking to a sponsor a sponsor yesterday
was having a terrible rotten no good day and I just reminded him hey we can start our day over
anytime we want and that's what that really means right and and it's to recognize our need right
right our need on a savior and how much we rely right on a redeemer yeah that's that is the key
to our happiness and the fulfillment of the great plan of happiness that we live in a fallen state
praise the lord and he sent a savior and redeemer praise the lord I mean I I just hope this time
of year when when we think about the the Christmas season Scott I hope that the fall I hope that
Adam and Eve are somehow a part of our Christmas traditions and our celebration and that we celebrate
them and that we're grateful for what they have made possible for us because without them we would
have no need for redeemer and a savior and I'm just so thankful that this is God's plan of salvation
and redemption that that it's through Jesus Christ and not through you not through me not on our own
that we are redeemed that is the perfect plan of God amen wow and great timing you know as we
enter into the holiday season as we start to just by nature I think the whole world just kind of by
nature takes a little bit different feel during this time of year and as we consider the importance
of the things that we've been talking about now and as we move into a celebration of the
birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ then then I hope that these things will enhance our
experience as we go through that and I know I promise you that they will if you'll make an effort
for that to happen thanks for being with us our email address he redeems us at gmail.com we've
received a lot of great emails we're responding to those as we can we will continue to talk about
in fact we've got a few of those that we'll be talking about on the podcast in upcoming weeks
hope your Thanksgiving was great hope everything as we move into the holiday season
with Christmas and everything else goes well for you as well thanks for being with us and we look
forward to being with you again next week and until then be well