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Hey there everybody and welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.

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Scott and David Durfey here as always excited about another day.

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How you doing Dave?

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Yeah, fired up Scott.

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Fired up.

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Excited to talk about the fall.

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We are in a great time of year.

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This episode will be coming out right after Thanksgiving and you know I just, Dave I've

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been thinking a lot about that.

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We've been talking this morning about a lot of things that we're thankful for and a lot

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of other things but you know I've been thinking a lot about what I'm thankful for this year.

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Well probably been a little more I don't know, poignant a little more in my life this year

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than other years past.

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Boy I tell you every time I do that exercise and I've actually kind of tried to make it

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part of my step 10 you know we talk about in recovery where we do the step 10 take a

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personal inventory at night and as part of mine I try and write down what I'm thankful

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for.

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Well I've just tried to just focus on what I'm thankful for this week and what an exercise

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has been.

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You know it's so important you know I've read recently about how important that is for anyone

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of any religion, atheist or not, religious or not you know I mean it's important for

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anybody I think to recognize gratitude and how even keeping a gratitude journal whether

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you believe or not believe whether you're whatever religion or not religion can really

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change your perception of the world and eventually perception of yourself and as we've talked

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about so far on in this season perception and identity as everything and I wanted to

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ask begin today by asking our listeners did you think your heavenly father this past week

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for the fall did you think him that you're fallen did you thank him for Adam and Eve

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and celebrate their choice to fall into a telestial state I mean really Scott we don't

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that's something that if we would be more grateful for it would immediately make a difference

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in how we see mortality how we see live life was not meant it was never meant to be pain

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free or pleasure filled that this world is telestial world is a place where immediately

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when you think of the fall you should think of the atonement of Jesus Christ when you

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think of Adam and Eve they should point you directly and quickly to Jesus Christ and I

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mean there those two those two pillars and and points of doctrine always go together

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I was thinking in the temple this week in fact I performed a live marriage last Saturday

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and I was trying to express this to the couple of the importance of the endowment and why

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we spend so much time talking about Adam and Eve in the endowment and what that had to

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do with them as a couple like Adam and Eve and that the reason we spend so much time

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on speaking about Adam and Eve in the temple Scott is because it tells us why we need a

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savior and redeemer it answers the fundamental question of why I mean I've heard people say

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elder haven Bruce Haven actually wrote wrote an article about this so many people have

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asked over the years why do we spend so much time in the temple endowment talking about

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creation in the fall we spend such little time hardly any time talking about the story

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or the events from the life of Jesus Christ and it occurred to him one day and I know

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it's true I felt the same that the reason we spend so much time on that is because the

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story of Jesus Christ or his life it tells us and teaches us about what he did but it's

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the story of Adam and Eve and the events of the fall that explained to us why he had to

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do it why he was willing to do it and it it also Scott it tells us how badly we need it

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and how we can access it through ordinances and covenants and bringing us into a relationship

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with him and that through him Jesus Christ that we can enter back into the presence of

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God and live in our heavenly home and be together forever as families I mean that's that's what

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the endowment is all about anyway I was trying to explain that all to a couple that I sealed

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in the temple and I felt the spirit of that and I know they did too I just think it's

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really important for us for all of us all of our listeners to understand the sacred

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role that Adam and Eve played in bringing about the plan of redemption without the creation

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without the fall there would be no atonement and without the atonement of Jesus Christ

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all of the creation in the fall would have been wasted so those three creation fall atonement

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make up the three pillars of the of the entire plan of redemption and I love talking about

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the fall and it just seems as though that's not a popular topic in the church but it sure

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sure is emphasized in the temple and as we talk about the fall it definitely does bring

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up some memory of past years or decades or whatever when it seems like that as a I don't

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know as a people that we just haven't understood and this is no fault of the church this is

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not a theological problem criticism it's not at all not at all maybe a cultural thing for

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sure that's how these things tend to be perpetuated that lack of understanding has also kept us

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from a choice and a sweet sweet relationship and an understanding of the atonement of Jesus

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Christ it's a little bit different you know especially if we learn you know that and especially

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I should say as we learn that the atonement of Jesus Christ was not God's backup plan

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that it was all even the fall of Adam and Eve was part of the orchestrated plan of happiness

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absolutely the great plan of happiness and you know at Adam and Eve declared that Lehi

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taught that Adam fell right this is Lehi in 2nd Nephi 227 Adam fell that men might be

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and men are that they might have joy it's taught throughout the Book of Mormon for a

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great price that they may taste the bitter that they may know the sweet I mean this is

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taught so often and so so well so powerfully in the Book of Mormon Scott and maybe we can

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just look at some of those foundational scriptures I think on the fall in the Book of Mormon

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and I think one that it just really impresses me is the brother of Jared and his declaration

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of the of the blessing of the fall I don't know if I think that's what he's feeling

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here is he prays about it he confesses his unworthiness but what a prayer I mean here

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is a prophet the brother of Jared who in the same chapter ether chapter three is going

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to see the Lord Jesus Christ after he offers this prayer Scott so I mean that should tell

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us something about his faith and about his worthiness and about where he stands in relationship

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to the Lord because he's going to see the pre mortal existence being Jesus Christ in

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this chapter anyway verse two oh Lord thou has said that we must be encompassed about

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by the floods he's he's been commanded as you know just to remind our listeners he's

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been commanded to build eight barges and he's concerned that there's no light in the barges

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and how do we get air in the barges and so he's he's praying about this and he asked

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the Lord in chapter two what to do about it and the Lord says well just put in a hole

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in the ship to get air and you know he did tells him how to get air and then he says

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well what do you want me to do about giving you a light I it's so great about how the

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Lord makes the brother of Jared struggle right we all struggle in the fall how he wanted

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the brother of Jared to struggle and to be somewhat spiritually self-reliant by learning

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how to get come to light and he gets these molten rocks and he's taken them to the Lord

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and now he prays oh Lord thou has said that we must be encompassed about by the floods

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now behold oh Lord and do not be angry with thy servant because of his weakness before

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thee for we know that thou art holy and dwell us in the heavens and that we are unworthy

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before thee this pretty powerful prophet Scott and he's confessing his unworthiness

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before the Lord we know that we are unworthy before thee and he's kind of doing it collectively

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for his people as well because of the fall our natures have become evil continually wow

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what what a confession but also what a statement of not not just confession Scott but just a

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reality check here right and he's I don't think he's feeling sorry for himself and he's not blaming

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the fall on any of this he just saying this is the way it is this is the way it is well I'm human

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I'm just human and he's recognizing and and I think even celebrating his fallen state

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because of the fall our natures have become evil continually nevertheless oh Lord thou has given

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us a commandment that we must call upon thee that from thee we may receive according to our desires

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and the prayer goes on and a few verses later the Lord appears to him well in which the Lord

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says never has men come before me with such great faith as thou hast so I just think it's

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it's really important and and the brother of Jared shows us a pattern here how we should confess

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and thank God for our fallen our fallen state our fallen nature now he was not saying it's

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important to know what he was not saying in that prayer Scott he he didn't take it necessarily as

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his personal identity but he's saying my nature you're not saying he's evil he's not saying he's

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evil he's saying my nature by nature my weakness because of the fall my nature is evil continually

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the prophet Brigham young had taught multiple times that the nature of of mankind is with us

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always we never are we never will be completely free of it in this life and that because of the

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nature of mankind that we we we do have deficiencies we have tendencies we all are affected by

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temptation and we sin and that will never be free from that in this life Scott I think it's just so

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critical to our identity to know that we are fallen to know that we're lost that we're centered

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we're going to read some scriptures where the book more prophets say we are carnal we are

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sensual we are devilish we're we're we're we are sinners but that our identity never has to become

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the prominent part of our identity never has to become that I had an experience as a bishop

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years and years ago and I had an individual who had had a long five year over five year

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terrible addiction with pornography and he came in and he he confessed that to me and he and he

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wept he cried and and you know this this man was a wonderful man just you know active really active

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in the church faithful and had a wonderful family the wife beautiful wife a number good

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number of children and anyway I loved and respected him so much and I sat there and listened to him

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confess his sin and he kept in confessing it he kept describing it as his desire it's my it's my I

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get this desire or anyway he's describing this whole sin as a as his desire and it just wasn't

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set right with me the spirit was making me feel uneasy as I sat there and listened to him and

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finally I said to him no wait wait wait wait just a minute wait just a minute I know you

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I know you and you keep you keep describing this addiction as if it were your desire I said what

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if you instead of saying it like that what what if you do thought of this your desire instead of

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being your desire what if you describe your addiction as a temptation as a temptation and not as a

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personal desire and he he stopped and he looked at me and I could be kind of you know close when I

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and when I could tell it was just really thinking about this then I wasn't really sure what what I

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had said or what I said why I had said it and he said bishop so what you're saying to me is that

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this is coming from an outside source and I said yeah that's what I'm saying to you this is coming

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from an out this is a this is a temptation you're being tempted just coming from an outside source

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and he said so what you're saying to me is I'm not a pervert I'm wow I looked at him and I said

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that's what I'm saying I I know you are not a pervert I knew him I knew him I knew in fact I

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asked him Scott what is the deepest desire of your heart then he started to weep and he said the

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deepest desire of my heart is to be with my wife and family forever and ever and I said that's what

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I thought that's what I thought you would say so why are you describing this pornography addiction

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as your desire the deepest desire of your heart is to have an eternal family no you are not a

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pervert and then he said one more thing so what you're saying to me is I can overcome this

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and I said no that is not what I'm saying to you

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what I what I am trying to say to you is that with Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice

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you can overcome this well then that changed the focus Scott and and boy to his credit he

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stayed true and faithful and and I trust and pray that he has completely stayed clean anyway I I

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just think it's really important for me for you for all of our listeners to know that that we are

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fallen that because of our natures we are evil continually but that I'm not evil you're not

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evil we do sin which qualifies us to be sinners but we are also saints and that's reminiscent of

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the old Indian chief right who's whose grandson came to him and was saying grandpa you know I

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I I feel this I feel like I'm two people I feel like I'm two people and by the way president K

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used to always talk about the dual nature of man you know that we are human beings having a spiritual

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experience that's you know versus spiritual beings having a human experience and this dual nature of

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mankind and this this war that goes on and and this this young teenage native american

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explaining that to the wise man his grandpa and the grandpa says well let me let me teach you

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something there's there's two dogs or two wolves inside each of us and they're always at war with

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one another they're always competing for your attention and the young man said so who wins

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and the grandfather and the wise man said whichever one you feed whichever one you feed

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whichever one you focus on I just think it's really important Scott for us that to confess and

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actually to be grateful for our humanness in our fallen state but to not allow that to dominate

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our focus or our identity. If we go back to this prayer in ether three this is in verse two

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because of the fall our natures have become evil he doesn't say I've become evil right you've made

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this point I'm just I'm just reiterating it he said he doesn't say you've become evil or I've

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become evil but our natures have become evil which is true and that is such an important

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delineation that we absolutely have to make in our own lives because the enemy the accuser

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the accuser will will tell us to think that we're perverts or whatever and identify with whatever

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label I decided to give myself but he says that the that our natures have become evil continually

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right not me my nature what an important confession in other words I'm a sinner my nature by nature

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by nature I'm a sinner right and so often you know when we when we talk amongst ourselves with

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our friends and this is one of the common things that we hear so often now you need to stop judging

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yourself so harshly you need to start you need to stop seeing yourself in that way which is

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absolutely the truth yeah right there is nothing inaccurate in that statement we do need to stop

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seeing ourselves in ways that aren't aligned with the way our heavenly father sees us that's

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that's the key we've spent episodes already on that and the and its importance but when I when I

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recognize that I struggle with or that I am how is it I my nature has become on has become evil

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continually so there's two things I need to recognize there one is is the continuation of

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this evil nature is probably going to perpetuate into the resurrection into the final judgment

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that evil nature will be with me and it will be something that I need to contend with and that I

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need to identify in its true form right nature yeah Scott nature and so when we see that what we're

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really doing when I see myself or when I recognize my fallen nature what I'm really doing and I'm not

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making a judgment on myself I'm just simply making an objective observation based on true principles

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and that objective observation what that does now is it leads me into an acknowledgement of my

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absolute dependence getting back to the that's the key getting back to the the endowment presentation

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that you were talking about earlier right that's why we talk about it that's why it's so important

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that we do right we have to understand our absolute dependence because of our continual

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evil nature not person evil nature and I keep reiterating that and emphasizing that because

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I just because we'll forget it we'll all at some point go back to beating ourselves up and we'll

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forget it's my nature that's continually evil not me and so you know it's it's understanding

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that my continual nature that's what I am that's what I deal with but that's not who I am exactly

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who I am is a redeemed son of my heavenly father a brother of a loving savior who did not heed to

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temptation who lived a sinless life and did all that was necessary so that his power could be

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accessed by me through his atonement and thereby I overcome that continual evil nature it just

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it just answers Scott so many problems that people deal with and it's just such an important

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truth and realization and understanding of who we are and again who's we are we are we are

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our sons and daughters of Adam and Eve that is a truth absolute and the I get we quoted this

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scripture last week I quoted it in the podcast I give unto men weakness right ether 1227 I give

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unto men weakness well that's through the fall we through the fall through mortality we are all

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weak our our natures are evil continually that's all true but the most important thing in that

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scripture in ether 1227 is my grace is sufficient for all who humble themselves before me so I just

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hope that we can celebrate the fall our fallenness our human nature and experience we can celebrate

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that because immediately when we think of it it should point us towards and help us to focus upon

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the Lord Jesus Christ and his atonement we talked about Nephi last last week Scott oh

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wretched man that I am right second Nephi chapter 4 verse 17 oh wretched man that I am but in the

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very next verses what is he what is that pointing to what does he acknowledge but I know in whom

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I have trusted that's it that's where that's where it goes it's it's like my wife I mean my my wife

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would y'all put her on par with with anybody up there as soon as she feels bad about her

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fallen nature and even my wife and the unbelievable saint that she is is a you know she sins

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she's a sinner she's she's her nature's evil continually too she's no better than the brother

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Jared for sure but she's amazing as soon as she sins or she gets discouraged because of her

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fallen nature she just has this little trigger now which we all need to learn and she bows her head

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and she says thank you not because she's a sinner but because she knows she needs

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Jesus Christ and because of him she's a saint I mean you just bow your head and you say thank you

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thank you for this experience and thank you for providing thank you heavenly father for providing

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me a savior that's what that's what she's saying when she bows her head and says thank you thank

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you heavenly father for my savior my redeemer Jesus Christ so to all of our listeners we cannot

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appreciate or be grateful it's thanksgiving scott of all the things and it's going to be

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christmas and for all the things that we should be thankful for it's Jesus christ and his atonement

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but you can never never fully appreciate it understand your need for it or feel the level

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of gratitude that we should all have for it unless we understand and we thank god literally thank god

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for the fall and for adam and for eve and confess our fallen nature before him continually

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it we're never I mean we all feel as god we're we should and we should again I said this last week

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what I'm just saying it again we should never try to make our identity to what tempts us our

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temptations should never become a part of our identity you know for example in the in the

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world of addiction scott I know there's this popular phrase right once an addict always an addict

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and all that you speak to this but that has that always bothers me a little bit because if that

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becomes their identity if they see themselves as being always an addict now I know the nature is

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always there the temptation is always there right I don't know if you're ever totally free from it

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but to see yourself as always an addict doesn't would this does seem to me to be necessarily

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a principle or a thought that would be edifying or that would strengthen you well what do you what

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do you say to individuals who say once an addict always an addict well first off I think that

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it's important that we understand what's meant by that right because as is the case in so many

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things in our world words can have different meanings right and so when I call myself an

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alcoholic or an addict and we can use those interchangeably for this discussion but when

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I and I do I refer to myself as I'm an alcoholic yeah recovering the alcohol yeah and that's the

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key you know recovery yeah but I don't say that I mean it's it's not uncommon that I say I'm an

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alcoholic and you know and it to people that don't know you know I'll follow it up with who's in

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recovery or and I have 25 years sober but I'm an alcoholic and and what that's saying is what

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ether or excuse me what the brother of Jared said I'm just I'm just recognizing the nature of the

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continual nature of my of my alcoholism it's just me being evil it's just in my evil nature it's not

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me it's my evil nature but that so there's two there's two things people will always often

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read I shouldn't say always will often refer to themselves you go to an AA meeting and you know

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I go to an AA meeting and if I share this Saturday with 25 years I will introduce myself I hi my name

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Scott and I'm an alcoholic just like in the movies yeah you know what did they say hi Scott yeah they do

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they actually hi Scott yeah they actually do it's you know yeah you know and I'll just throw

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the same parenthetically I will tell you and I've said this as I've shared my story those those were

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the first words of hope I heard what what were the hi Scott hi Scott well my name's my name's Scott

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and I'm an alcoholic well hi Scott I felt at home I felt welcomed I felt part of something I felt

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embraced by a solution a group of people who carried a solution and so you know when we say that

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we're not necessarily referring when I say once an alcoholic always an alcoholic once an addict

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always an alcoholic all that means is is that this has got to be a part of my life for the rest of my

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life this this and when I say this this recovery part you know the recovering part has to be part

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of my life for the rest of my life and and and and probably chief among them is second step to

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recognize that Jesus Christ is my salvation through this that through him and only through and by him

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am I able to overcome any continual evil in my life yeah alcoholism drug addiction whatever so

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you know I think I think to the person who's not familiar with the culture around alcoholism

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or I should say recovery from alcoholism drug addiction and those other types of things when

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they hear that I've even had people say I hate to label myself as an alcoholic I don't want to

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be labeled as an alcoholic the rest of my life well that's just another word for you're a fallen man

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and this this this particular and labels aren't good labels are negative and in this particular

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part of your fallenness we we do need to just kind of identify it to help us remember how important

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it is that we stay to help to help us remember how important it is that we not just stay vigilant

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towards working steps but that we stay extra vigilant on a relationship with a higher that's

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with a power that's greater than ourselves that can restore us to sanity if we take certain steps

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yeah yeah and you know Scott that's exactly what I the the temple endowment tries to teach us right

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is that each of us are Adam and Eve and we have we we are in a celestial state and immediately we

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should build our altars and offer sacrifice and and think about the Lamb of God and Jesus Christ

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and thank Him that because of His suffering and His death that our suffering will not be in vain

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it'll be consecrated for our gain and that through Him we will have eternal life the Book of Mormon

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just teaches us over and over and over again Scott I mean look I just I'm going to go to the

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mosaic chapter 16 I think it's one of the great great discourses on doctrine on this doctrine

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it's it's a benedict the prophet of benedict keep teaching King Noah in his court and I believe

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it's chapter 16 that definitely converts Alma the senior that one high priest who who became a saint

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all that followed that because of Alma the younger and his son and

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anyway it changes these people this one of the greatest discourses on the the fall and the atonement

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it is chapter chapter is really 14 15 and 16 a benedict teaching King Noah says that old serpent

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did beguile our first parents I'm in verse three middle of the verse which was the curse of their

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fall which was the cause of all mankind get that Scott all mankind becoming carnal sensual

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devilish knowing evil from good subjecting themselves to the devil thus all mankind were lost

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all mankind Scott were lost and behold they would have been endlessly lost were it not for

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that God that redeemed his people from their lost and fallen state but remember that he that

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persists in his own carnal nature and goes on in the ways of sin and rebellion against God

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remaneth in his fallen state and the devil hath all power over him therefore he is as though

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there was no redemption made being an enemy to God and also as the devil an enemy to God

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and now if Christ had not come into the world I love this verse and now and I think about

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Christmas or dumb and read this verse and now if Christ had not come into the world

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old speaking of things to come as though they had already come because this is 148 BC

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approximately there could have been no redemption so even before Christ was born Scott even before

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he was born have been a die the prophet and Nephi 600 years before Christ was born what did they

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think of they knew they were lost they knew they were fallen they knew they were subject to a world

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that was powered in many respects by the devil they they knew that they were living in a world

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of sin and that they felt the effects of that every day but what did they think of

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their focus was on redemption then upon Jesus Christ their Savior and their Redeemer

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so if we need to celebrate the fall but we don't need to that doesn't need to be our identity

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we need to know that we are sinners we're all just sinners helping sinners but when I think of that

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we need to immediately see Jesus in the garden and on the cross and we need to have our minds

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and our thoughts as he commanded us to do be ever upon him look unto me in every thought so as soon

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as we we become discouraged by our fallen nature and our state of carnality that we are never free

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from really I mean I you feel the temptation every day I feel temptation every day I know the prophets

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feel temptations every day I think sometimes the closer you get to Jesus the more temptation you

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feel the more small things you know anyway bring them young taught Joseph Smith thought we're never

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we're never totally free from it but through the through receiving the gift of the Holy Ghost we

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can become spiritually alive we can be born again and we can in many respects be free from the

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continual continual effects of sin even though the brother of Jared said because of the fall

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his nature was evil continually that's an important confession and to recognize it but we don't have

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to be sinning we don't have to be complacent about sin I think it's so important that we learn how to

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hate the sins but love the sinners and that includes ourselves Scott in my own self I can

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abhor sin but I can love me and recognize that it's because of the fall I feel these things

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not because that's who I am is because of the fall I'm tempted but that's not who I am is because

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of the fall I have certain propensities tendencies weaknesses of the flesh but that's not who I am

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I am a son of God and I am a disciple of Jesus Christ and have been born again through him

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and I can become a joint heir of Christ through the ordinances and the power of godliness

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found in the ordinances of the restored gospel of Jesus I mean that's what should be our focus

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in our identity and that makes all the difference it does make all the difference in fact it is all

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the difference it is the difference not all the difference it is the difference right and it's

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through that that we how it's through that that develops our ability to see ourselves but it's

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also through that that develops our ability to see him Jesus Christ for what he is and what he

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what he he has done and and all of that very key you know when when as you're going through

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talking about all of that our identities I and I and I have big pictures to go with these words

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we all do we all have pictures to go with these words about you know our identity is on who on

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what we've done wrong sometimes and and our fallen natures and and that is a big big big problem

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because it is and the accuser is what keeps those pictures before us continually that's

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exactly right and and he can make those pictures seem even uglier than what they really are if we

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if you know if we allow that to happen and see more real than they really are yeah one of the

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problems that I think is semi-universal is that we as people we as humans we as those who are

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struggling with this evil continual may continually evil nature is the way that we judge ourselves

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the way that we talk to ourselves condemn the way that we can shame and put ourselves down and

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compare ourselves to others right and everything like that if I'm sponsoring somebody or if even

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me if if if I'm sponsoring somebody and I get a phone call and I haven't heard from them a week

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a month sometimes longer then I get a phone call eventually and that phone call says and I say

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man you've been kind of gone hey wall where you been well I've been ashamed I've been embarrassed

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I've been whatever we call it on a runner sometimes and and and what that means is is that somebody's

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made a mistake they've slipped up and now their identity all comes back to this is who I am I'm

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to slip up I'm the mess up yeah I'm the mistake I'm the and that's what I'm a pervert that's what

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sainton wants us to believe he wants us to believe that it's me that that is who I am right and and

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if he can get us to do that and and for whatever reason and whatever tools are used I guess this

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is part of the enmity right that we that we have but we in the bruising of our heels but we definitely

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get those heels bruised as we go through life and just see ourselves that way now a lot of that

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and I would probably say maybe even most of that comes when we don't understand him when we don't

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really know him when we don't because we have these experiences based on human experiences

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and all of our reaction to life is based on our human interaction and our interpersonal

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relationships that we have here and so for example if a father was going to be you know if I had a

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dad and this isn't my dad but if I had a dad who's going to be extremely disappointed in me for

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something that I had done then I am going to let that affect me well if we see Heavenly Father in

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that same realm and we don't see him in the purest perfect form that we do then we can also make

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that part of our experience here and that can compound the problem another big saint tool of

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satans. Yeah absolutely Scott you made reference to the the bruising of our heel or the bruising

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of man's heel and maybe some of our listeners aren't as familiar with that but that's in Genesis

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chapter 3 it's in the Prograde Price Moses chapter 4 when after Adam and Eve have partaken of the

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fruit he addresses Adam and there are certain consequences for the partaking of the fruit

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right he'll he'll work by the sweat of his brow and then there's a there's a consequence for

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Eve and that you know the some of the the curse of Adam and Eve that we all experience

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that she will bear with great affliction children and and then he and then he curses this he talks

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to the serpent and he says I'm going to start in it's verse 20 in the Prograde Price Moses chapter

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4 verse 20 I the Lord sent unto the serpent because thou hast done this thou shalt be cursed above all

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cattle and above all every beast of the field upon thy belly shalt thou go and doush thou shalt

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eat all the days of thy life and I will put enmity this is important Scott I will put enmity

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between thee and the woman between thy seed and her seed and he shall have power and he shall

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bruise thy head and thou shalt bruise his hill in the temple it becomes even a little more clear

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than that that through the atonement of Jesus Christ God even though Satan can

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bruise our hill that through the atonement of Jesus Christ Satan will be crushed I mean that's

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the meaning of that that no doubt because of the fall yeah because of a fallen state a celestial

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world hey we're bruised every day but because he Jesus Christ was bruised for our iniquities

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and he felt all of the suffering and he took upon himself all of the pains and punishment for all

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sin and for all sicknesses and for all negative consequences all negative consequences of the

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fall are swallowed up and suffered by Jesus Christ in his offering to us in his atonement

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Satan is crushed we need to understand that and so when we feel when we feel him bruising our hill

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we need to be thoughtful and have our minds go immediately to our gratitude for Jesus Christ

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and his atonement so when we think of the fall this important doctrine it should point us

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to the atonement of of Jesus Christ and I hope that our listeners will feel a greater need

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as for Jesus Christ as they feel greater gratitude and have greater understanding

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for the blessing that Adam and Eve I just you know Adam and Eve are two four ordained individuals

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I think elder mcconkey refer to them maybe being as you know Jesus Christ is the most important

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person that's been born on this this earth maybe the second to to him was and I'm not

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comparing men and women here I'm just saying maybe the second most important man would have been Adam

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and maybe Mary the mother of Jesus most important woman born on this earth and maybe just second

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her is Eve I just we need to celebrate Adam and Eve and the choice that they made and I

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here's something else we have to celebrate be thankful for is Latter-day Saints

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is that there is no other Christian church I've I've been I've read recently again some of the

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biblical commentaries of the fall and how everybody condemns the fall that where's no there's not

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another Christian church that believes that the fall was actually part of God's plan and it was

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supposed to be that way I just think that's I just think that's one of the great blessings of the

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restoration of the gospel it's one of the great blessings of the Book of Mormon it's one of the

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great blessings of having prophets seers and revelators on this earth is that we can celebrate

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the fall while at the same time give gratitude and thanks and realize our dependence upon Jesus

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Christ but all others believe that that the fall should have never taken place they believe that

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Adam and Eve did a terrible thing and that we could have been all born and raised in a

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paradicycle glory and we don't believe that and I just think it it should make life it should

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make life more bearable for all of us understanding that this was part of God's plan it's not a

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mistake there's not a mistake in God's plan or in his creations this is all part of the

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of what he wanted to happen and as a result he he he made ample provision to cover it

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to compensate us and and thank God for our understanding of the fall and the atonement

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of Jesus Christ you know you're talking about how we are I think the only one that the sees

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that the only religion that sees the fall of Adam and Eve the way that we do well you know that's

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a tactic that Satan used even in the garden right so here so so listen for example you know when

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Satan comes to Eve in the garden right you know he says take take a bite of this fruit

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and she says I can't do that she says I can't even touch it exactly he said oh come on you

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you're not gonna die yeah you're not gonna die right you know so so what's he doing is he's trying

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to get Eve to even in the very beginning question God yeah to even put a question mark in her mind

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around okay and and and when you're talking about that that's how others continually see it

400
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well that's Satan still getting us to try to question God you're right and when we do that

401
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that's when doubt can creep in that's when the spirit of the adversary can creep in and kind of

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overshadow all other things and and I think perhaps maybe just maybe that that could be one of the

403
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reasons that Satan has done such a powerful attempt in in changing the way that we see this

404
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is because that if he can thwart our vision on the fall of Adam and Eve then he can definitely

405
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mess up the way we see the atonement of Jesus Christ yeah that's a great that's a great observation

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Scott I I love your thought on that and it's true and you know Paul talks about that that Eve was

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beguiled yeah well she was beguiled yeah she was beguiled she she was absolutely deceived by by

408
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Satan now she she finally realized she finally realized I don't know what point she realized

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that yeah yeah I do need to become I do need to become like my heavenly father and I do need to

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I do need to to leave this garden in order to I mean at some point she realized that hey we can't

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keep the first commandment the first commandment was right to multiply and replenish the earth

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the second commandment given by God was don't partake of the fruit now some people see that

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that's a great contradiction and and it's it's really more it's really cleared up in in moses

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chapter three because in moses chapter three he says nevertheless you may choose for thyself

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then Eve had come to realize that these two commandments I'm gonna have to choose to leave

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this garden in order to multiply and replenish the earth she knew that after she had partaken

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is it became more real to her and she got Adam to partake as well so all of this is part of

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the plan and some people say well why did God give contradicting commandments well brother

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matthews rumber j matthews he has a whole talk on that and it's because of of the of the sacred

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nature of agency God can make them fall they had to choose for themselves and I don't know how long

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they were in the garden before all this happened right we don't have any sequential timing of of

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these events that they could have been in the garden for I think a long long time before Eve said hey

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we got it we add them we've got we got to get on with the keeping that first commandment to

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multiply and replenish the earth and for whatever reason in the garden of Eden we don't understand

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we don't have any more details than what the scriptures provide us we don't know if it's that

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they couldn't procreate or if they just wouldn't procreate we don't know that's ridiculous to

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probably even philosophically discuss or wonder but but she came to understand that we have to

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move on from here and there was deception she was beguiled but she made the choice and I love we

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read the scripture last week that I love that it's in the temple endowment about her rejoicing

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her rejoicing in the fall that they might be able to have children and they might be able to progress

431
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I just hope all of us can see our our fallen state as a state of progression and that

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what as soon as we think about our fallen natures which are evil continually that we can rejoice

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in our absolute dependence on Jesus Christ being such an important part and the fulfillment

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of God's plan of redemption you know I don't think we read last week scott it's always been

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impressive to me about king benjamin and what he says about the fall even after people are born again

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00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,960
even after they're born again even after they're converted even after they're forgiven of all their

437
00:50:53,960 --> 00:51:00,520
sins scott what does what does he say to them I mean here they are rejoicing this in moseiah chapter

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four even after they're rejoicing and they talk about how they now have a piece of conscience

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because they've taken upon themselves the name of Jesus Christ in a in a more sacred and significant

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way than even even baptism really they they cry out oh have mercy and apply the atoning blood

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and then verse four they have joy and peace of conscience and then right after that king

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benjamin says to them in verse five behold if the knowledge of the goodness of god at this time

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has awakened you to a sense of your nothingness and your worthless and fallen state that is so

444
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interesting that he kind of reverses this and he says I hope that the goodness of christ helps you

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to remember your fallen worthless state isn't that interesting and then he goes on and he talks about

446
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hey let the knowledge of the goodness of god this is verse six let the goodness of god and his

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matchless power and his wisdom and patience and his long suffering towards the children of man and

448
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also the atonement which has been prepared from the foundation of the world let that let that be

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what you focus on focus on that but it's because of the goodness of god and the atonement of Jesus

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christ that should help you to remember how worthless and the let me put that different

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of your worthless and fallen state that you're in and there's Scott there's a difference between

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00:52:43,560 --> 00:52:53,720
state and trait I use teach this in in my course at the institute you know he it's a fallen state

453
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state is different than trait our trait is that we have spiritual DNA in us we have gods DNA

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spiritually speaking spirit DNA in us that that's what we should identify with and that should be

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be we should consider that to be our traits and yet we are in such a fallen state and then in verse

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11 he talks always retain in remembrance I mean the middle of verse 11 always retain and

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rememberance the greatness of god and your own nothingness and his goodness and long suffering

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towards you unworthy creatures and humble yourselves even in the depths of humility calling on the name

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of the lord daily and standing steadfastly in the faith of that which is to come

460
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meaning Jesus christ the birth then the life and the death and the resurrection of Jesus christ

461
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to come I like the the first part of 11 to and I'm going to read it again I said under you I have

462
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as I've said before that as you have come and and this is key because this is setting us up in

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order for us to be able to do that these these are prerequisite to all of that yeah that if you've

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come to the knowledge and the glory of god or if you have known of his goodness and there's a difference

465
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yeah you know to know god and to know of his goodness I mean there there's that's an adjective

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and to know it and to be grateful for that carries a great deal of gratitude a ton of weight when it

467
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comes to this as you have known of his goodness and have tasted of his love and have received a

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remission of your sins which to me are one and the same which causes such exceeding great joy

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in your souls even so I would that you should remember and always retain in remembrance the

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greatness of god and then it goes on and your own nothingness and and so in order for us to retain

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in a remission or to retain a remembrance of the greatness of god that that is that that presumes

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that we once knew yeah of the greatness right yeah that we understood stood it and we still do

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the way that we understand it and the way that we still do is to taste of his love and to fill

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the promise and the hope of his redeeming love through that's a daily thing Scott it is and

475
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:31,640
sometimes it's more than daily hourly moment by moment I was talking to a sponsor a sponsor yesterday

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was having a terrible rotten no good day and I just reminded him hey we can start our day over

477
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:44,440
anytime we want and that's what that really means right and and it's to recognize our need right

478
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:52,680
right our need on a savior and how much we rely right on a redeemer yeah that's that is the key

479
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to our happiness and the fulfillment of the great plan of happiness that we live in a fallen state

480
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:07,880
praise the lord and he sent a savior and redeemer praise the lord I mean I I just hope this time

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of year when when we think about the the Christmas season Scott I hope that the fall I hope that

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Adam and Eve are somehow a part of our Christmas traditions and our celebration and that we celebrate

483
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them and that we're grateful for what they have made possible for us because without them we would

484
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have no need for redeemer and a savior and I'm just so thankful that this is God's plan of salvation

485
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and redemption that that it's through Jesus Christ and not through you not through me not on our own

486
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that we are redeemed that is the perfect plan of God amen wow and great timing you know as we

487
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enter into the holiday season as we start to just by nature I think the whole world just kind of by

488
00:57:06,360 --> 00:57:11,480
nature takes a little bit different feel during this time of year and as we consider the importance

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of the things that we've been talking about now and as we move into a celebration of the

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birth of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ then then I hope that these things will enhance our

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experience as we go through that and I know I promise you that they will if you'll make an effort

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for that to happen thanks for being with us our email address he redeems us at gmail.com we've

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received a lot of great emails we're responding to those as we can we will continue to talk about

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in fact we've got a few of those that we'll be talking about on the podcast in upcoming weeks

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hope your Thanksgiving was great hope everything as we move into the holiday season

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with Christmas and everything else goes well for you as well thanks for being with us and we look

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forward to being with you again next week and until then be well