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Hey there everybody and welcome out to another episode of Redeem Through His Blood.

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Scott and David Durfey here as always excited to talk about these sacred and important topics.

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How are you today David?

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Good.

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How are you Scott?

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Good to be with you and everyone out there.

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I'm excited about today's podcast and what we're going to talk about.

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I think it's one of the five keys in regards to repentance and forgiveness in the course

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that was developed and that I taught.

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And I told Elder Anderson when we started to work on his book that I thought the first

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key to really work out our repentance and forgiveness and to access the power of Jesus

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Christ through his Atonement was to understand the fall of all mankind.

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In fact, I remember when we were working on the book I had titled this chapter, the fall

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of all.

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I mean I wanted to be just really emphasize exclamation mark, exclamation mark, exclamation

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mark, the fall of all.

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And he reworked the chapter and sent the title back to me and it was entitled, Far From

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Our Heavenly Home.

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That's a fall for sure.

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That's an apostle.

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That's an apostle.

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You know, I mean really, to make a point here, you know, he was so spiritually, I mean those

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brothers are really so spiritually minded.

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And it was just sweeter.

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It was just sweeter.

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It was kinder.

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It was a little bit more inviting.

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It kind of connected heaven to that whole process.

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Yeah.

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Instead of just saying, you know, we're mortals.

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He was being spiritual by reminding us that, you know, his focus was the heavenly home.

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That we're far from our heavenly home and we shouldn't forget our true identity while

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we understand and accept the fall of all.

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Anyway, I love this.

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So we're going to spend maybe a podcast or two, I think, I hope on this.

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Yeah, I think so.

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That's usually the way it works.

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It's really critical.

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You know, President Benson, you can't, nobody can really appreciate the need for food unless

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they're hungry, unless you're like me in these M&M peanuts you have right here.

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You're eating them even though you're not hungry.

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I know that.

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But it's true.

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You can't really understand and appreciate the Atonement of Jesus Christ unless you understand

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and appreciate the doctrine of the fall.

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It really is foundational to the understanding of it.

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Oh, it's so important.

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You know, when I'm teaching a class for work right now, and it has to do with finance and

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technical analysis and all that stuff.

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But there are certain things, checkpoints, if you will, that if we're going along and

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learning a process, and in this case, we're learning life, we're learning eternal life,

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but as we're going along and we're learning this process, and we miss some of the important

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checkpoints along the way, then our learning experience is incomplete.

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And if our learning experience is incomplete, it makes it more difficult for our spiritual

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experience to be complete as well.

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And so to understand these principles, it really is foundational.

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You know, I know that I've kind of had the attitude in years past that, you know, yeah,

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this is important and things of that nature, but now when we teach this in our Institute

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class at BYU now to young single adults, now we're really emphasized the importance of

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understanding the importance of the fall short, but the importance of understanding the fall

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and all that it entails.

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And appreciating it.

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Appreciating it.

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It seems like as though sometimes people want to run away from this doctrine.

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Right.

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And embracing this doctrine is one of the three pillars of the entire plan of redemption.

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You know, the three pillars Elder Mcconkey taught us are the creation, the fall, and

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the atonement.

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Right.

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And if you don't really understand and appreciate either one of those, then your understanding

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of the plan of redemption of God's plan is incomplete.

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Yeah.

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I love the talk, the three pillars of eternity by Elder Mcconkey.

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And he even talks about the fall in a way that I had never thought of it before.

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I listened to this talk again for, you know, three or four weeks ago and in a way that

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I had never really thought of it.

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But you know, you're right.

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Oftentimes we look at the fall and it has a bit of a, I don't know if I'd use the word

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negative connotation, but there certainly can be to some a prickly feeling around it.

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Right.

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It just doesn't seem to be one that is as edifying.

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That's right.

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And I think that's the way Elder Mcconkey put it in context.

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Yes.

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In that talk, he called the fall of Adam and Eve the father of the atonement of Jesus Christ.

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I love that.

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I love that, Scott.

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Thank you.

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And I, I, you know, when's the last time you thanked Heavenly Father in your prayers

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for the fall?

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When's the last time you really thanked Him?

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Heavenly Father, I'm so thankful that I've fallen.

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I don't know that I've ever positioned it in the way that, Hey, Heavenly Father, I'm

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thankful I'm fallen, but I, but how about this?

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Hey, Heavenly Father, I'm thankful for the opportunity that I have today to go skiing

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or to learn or to grow or to have this experience that I wouldn't be able to have other places.

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Right.

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Well, thinking about this podcast this morning when I said my prayers, I said, I'm thankful

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for the plan, which includes the fall.

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There you go.

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And I'm thankful for opposition and I'm thankful to be human.

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I just think we have to be grateful for this, Scott, and, and not run from it and not try

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to avoid it.

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I love what Stephen Robinson, I just compare phrase that I don't have in front of me, but

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I love what Stephen Robinson said about the doctrine of the fall and in his book.

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I think it was the one believe in Christ where he says, you know, in the church, there's

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where there's where fall, the church is full of spiritual masochists is who don't even

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want to be fallen and they beat themselves up.

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They beat themselves up for being fallen.

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I, I, it's crazy.

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And it, but it's true, you know, and it's amazing how Satan.

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And has turned this beautiful, precious truth and doctrine into something of disdain and

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something that we, that we seem not to embrace.

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And I just, it's so well taught by the prophets in the Book of Mormon.

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And we just need to be more humble and more accepting that really we are nothing and without

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the atonement of Jesus Christ, we're just, we're worthless.

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That's those are the words of King Benjamin.

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We'll read that later.

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You're nothingness, you worthless creatures.

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You know, I mean, that's kind of the way he puts it, right?

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And, and that's okay.

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That was part, that was part of the plans, God.

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It's only okay though, if we understand what came from the fall.

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In other words, when we understand the atonement of Jesus Christ, that's the only time it becomes

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okay.

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Exactly.

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Yeah, you can't just get stuck in the fall.

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No, you cannot.

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You know, when we talk about the fall of Adam and Eve, the fall of us all, that we really,

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we're really dealing with two, I don't know if I would use the word problems, but they,

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but, but they can be problems.

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And we sometimes can see in problems, one spiritual death, one's physical death.

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And everything that goes on, that's wrong with us has to do with spiritual physical

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death.

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So let's just recap real quick.

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Can we do this in our Institute class quite frequently?

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So this helps us understand the necessity of the atonement of Jesus Christ and why it's,

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it's so important that it's infinite, right?

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So it includes physical death, includes anything that has to do with our bodies, you know.

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Yeah, disease, sickness, poor eyesight, all the hand and cabs and mentally, physically,

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emotionally, everything that goes with it.

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And so I love how you just talked about mentally, emotionally and all that goes with that because

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now we kind of gap over into the spiritual death because of the spiritual death, or in

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other words, our separation, our, our literal separation, we don't dwell with God.

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We come down to a celestial world.

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And because of that separation, the spiritual death always also comes into play here.

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And that can also contribute to some of those emotional, mental and other things.

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So we get some, we get some overlap between those two things.

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But here's the problem with the problem.

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The problem with the problem is it's not really that big of a problem if we understand it,

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but Satan wants us to believe that is.

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And he will take those problems and he will horrible lies and magnify.

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The accuser.

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And there you go.

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We read that last week, right?

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The Ecuser.

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So we get these problems and we see them grow and grow and grow before us.

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And pretty soon we have lost all contact.

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Yeah, absolutely, Scott.

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So, you know, he, he accuses us that we, that we are worth, that we'll never be good enough.

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That we, that that's who we are.

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And it's true that we are human and we want to talk about that today and celebrate that,

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that we should celebrate our humanness.

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This is all part of God's plan.

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There's no shock or surprise or God in heaven ringing his hands over the fact that we live

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in a celestial world and that we are influenced every day by a celestial kingdom in a fallen,

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hellish world as beautiful as it is.

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Thank God for the creation as beautiful as it is as much as he's given us and all the

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gifts of the Spirit and everything that he has blessed us with.

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I love Elder Anderson's quote on as the world becomes more evil because of the Atonement

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of Jesus Christ, he compensates us with more of the Spirit of the Lord.

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I love that.

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But Scott, we, we have to really embrace the truth that we were meant to be fallen.

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God wanted us to be fallen.

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You know, it's really, you know, I know I love that this is now in the Temple Endowment,

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right?

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That in the Temple Endowment, they read Eve's great declaration.

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Let's just go to Moses chapter five real quick and read verse 11.

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Moses chapter five, this is, this is how we should feel about it.

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You know, when Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, they didn't go kicking and

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screaming.

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You know, Eve had come to kind of learn and embrace this idea that they had to multiply

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and replenish the earth and they had to be miserable.

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I'm second, if I chapter two now, that they had to be miserable to no joy and they had

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to have children and they had to experience the thorns and the thistles and the sweat

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of thy brow.

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They had to experience all that.

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And when they left, they left the garden in joy.

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Why do we, why do we get so down and depressed because of the world that we live in?

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There's so many great opportunities and blessings because of this hellish mortal fallen experience

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that we're having that God has allowed us to taste the bitter that we might know the

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sweet.

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I have an answer to that question, but before we, before we answer that question, I think

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we should read the scripture.

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Why don't you go ahead?

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Well, let's, let's, let's say, let's read verse 10 about how Adam feels about it.

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Verse 10, Moses chapter five.

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And in that day is the day that they've made sacrifice and they're now in mortality and

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thrust out of the garden and in the celestial world.

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In that day, Adam blessed God and was filled and began to prophesy concerning all the families

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of the earth saying, blessed be the name of God for because of my transgression, my fall,

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my eyes are opened.

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And in this life, I shall have joy.

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And again in the flesh, I shall see God.

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Verse 11, which is so sweet.

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And Eve, his wife, heard all these things and was glad saying, we're at not for our transgression

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or fall.

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We never would have had seed and never should have known good and evil and the joy of our

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redemption and the eternal life, which God giveth unto all the obedient.

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I love that.

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Those two verses.

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That's why she could have joy because of their redemption, right?

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Because they understood their redemption and the eternal life, which God giveth to all

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the obedient.

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And in other words, to all those who qualify for for Christ's power that comes through

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his atonement, which offsets every single one of the negative effects of the fall of

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Adam and Eve.

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She understood that.

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And that's why she could they could say they understood.

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That's why they could say and the joy of our redemption and the eternal life, which God

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giveth to all all the obedient.

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So there's the thing, you know, we think about and I've had kids, people actually, even in

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my ward, etc.

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Say to me, you know, but the fall of Adam and Eve, you know, the effects of the fall

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of Adam and Eve are just so difficult.

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Their life is, you know, and they're not saying that they're not using those, but they're

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telling me things like my depression is overcoming me, my worry about my children who are wandering.

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That's overcoming me.

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You know, the financial situation is the physical, the illnesses, etc.

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Everything is associated with the fall.

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And we see these things and we bemoan them.

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And when we bemoan them, it makes it easy for us to have, I don't know, almost even

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be resentful towards the fall of Adam and Eve.

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Unless we go to the garden and unless we go to the cross and unless we go to the tomb,

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we will never be able to appreciate the fall or even have an appreciation for the fall

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of Adam and Eve.

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Dave.

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Well, and even worse, Scott, if we don't have an appreciation and understanding for the

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fall of Adam and Eve, you cannot fully, you cannot fully understand and appreciate the

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atonement of Jesus Christ.

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So honestly, not, not understanding fall is, is probably the greatest stumbling block to

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really embracing redemption and the atonement of Jesus Christ.

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So Scott, I know that it's part of our, I don't want to, we've been talking about identity

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a lot for a reason.

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And that is if you can really get a glimpse of who you are, your eternal potential, your

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eternal identity and not get stuck here in your earthly mortal identity.

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And you can see back into your pre, get a glimpse back into your pre-mortal existence.

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By the way, Scott, I, I was thinking about it this morning.

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You know, we, I shared some stories about giving a patriarchal blessing and getting

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glimpse of a, of a young woman in her pre-mortal existence and, and how delighted her heavenly

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parents were in her.

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And we shared the story of my son, Devon, who received a patriarchal blessing before I was

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ever a patriarch, which completely flipped him, changed him and set his life on course

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to become the man that he is.

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We shared those experiences and I, I don't think you have to have a patriarchal blessing

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that describes your pre-mortal existence.

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I just kind of want to maybe do a little course correction here.

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I don't think you need a patriarchal blessing that, that talks or describes in detail your

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pre-mortal existence to get a glimpse of your pre-mortal existence because the prophets

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have talked about it.

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The scriptures have talked about it.

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If we just, if we'll just study it, we can, we can get a glimpse of ourselves with a,

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in spite of what your patriarchal blessing may say or not say.

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So I just, I just wanted to maybe make that disclaimer.

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Your patriarchal blessing makes not say anything about your pre-mortal existence because mine

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sure doesn't.

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But I've, I've had a, I've had a glimpse.

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I mean, I haven't seen myself, but I know I was for ordained.

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I know I was among the elect.

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I know I was among the chosen.

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I know I came down here for a purpose.

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I know there's no mistake when I came down here in the time and the condition that I

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came down here, that the gospel would be on the earth and that I would have a purpose

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and a mission.

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I wish we all know that and we need, we need to seek to know what our purpose is in some

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detail and God will reveal that to us.

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We can get our own personal revelation without getting a revelation called the patriarchal

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blessing that will reveal to us, help us to get a glimpse of who we really are.

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So that, and that, that glimpse can come in different ways, right?

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For sure.

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I mean, it can come in our own personal study and that should, it's more likely to come

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in a culmination of ways, you know, as we listen to the prophets talk about and apostles

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and other leaders, inspired leaders talk about these things that, that should help us.

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You know, Dave, where I got my glimpse of my pre-existence was when my, my dad would

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teach me about the pre-existence and the pre-mortal life when I was just a little kid, we'd be

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driving to Salt Lake to the dry cleaners or we'd be working out in the field and, and

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I had, I had endured these very long lectures.

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Yeah.

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I'm sure.

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The same ones you endured from your head.

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And, and you know what, and I never, I never really despised those.

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I really, I really didn't.

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Yeah.

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There were times when they would fill long, but I never despised those.

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Long and sometimes old.

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Yeah.

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And repetitive.

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Which is all, which is all fine.

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My kids can say the same thing about me, but, but what I did learn there and I'm, and I'm

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learning that I learned this in my older age, but what I learned there was my dad really

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helped me see myself in the pre-existence.

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You know, we talked about that at length, you know, he would talk about scripture, he

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would talk about what probably happened there and none of it was conjecture.

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It was all scripturally sound.

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So my, so the reason I bring that up is because maybe, you know, we have a lot of young parents

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who listen to this podcast and maybe parents, we can help our children.

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That's good.

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We can really, that could be a takeaway from today's conversation is maybe we can help

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our children strive for that glimpse of themselves.

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Yeah.

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In spite of the temptations and trials and hellishness of this world, in spite of what

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the world tells them that they are.

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Exactly.

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And that brings to mind us a story.

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I think I've shared this in maybe previous seasons, but I was good friends with a bishop.

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We were, our, we office right across the hall in the church in Minnesota, where I served

317
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as a bishop.

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He came in my office and we sat down and he kind of broke down and shared that his greatest

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trial were not the challenges in his ward, but the challenges in his family.

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And then he had a son who was not keeping the commandments, his teenage son and how

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hard that was for him.

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And just, just kind of, he just needed to talk.

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And I remember sharing with him the recent quote of Boyd K. Packer back then.

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This is in the late 1990s.

325
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President Packer had said before that, 10 years before that, President Packer had said,

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true doctrine understood changes behavior.

327
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And so I remember more than this study of behavior changes, changes behavior.

328
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Right.

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And I remember kind of talking about that with this bishop father who was, you know, a little

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bit, maybe like Alma, who had an Alma the younger.

331
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And remember thinking, in fact, really, if you look at, if you look at the chapters in

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Alma chapter 39, 40, 41, 42, where Alma is his experience and his teaching to his wayward

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son, Corianton, it is all focused on the fall and the atonement.

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It's so true what you say, Scott, if, if parents would teach their young children the reality

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of the fall and the atonement and who they really are.

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Why would we leave it to the world to teach our children who they are?

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True doctrine understood changes behavior.

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And this is this doctrine of who we really are.

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And that includes the fall and the atonement of Christ and redemption.

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Anyway, I remember talking about that with this bishop and that instead of maybe talking

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about this son's behavior when he would come home really late in the morning after partying

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with his friends, maybe instead of talking about his behavior, what if he talked to his

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son about doctor?

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I remember it was a week or two after that.

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It wasn't long.

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Within weeks, he was back in my office.

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He sat down and again got emotional and shared with me an experience he had with his son

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just the previous night that his son had come home after midnight.

349
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And he, he was drunk and and instead of getting after him or getting mad or overreacting to

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his condition or behavior, he simply said to him, let's just let's just call him John.

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He said to him, John, do you think you sat on the fence in the premortal existence?

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This son, you know, I don't know.

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And his father said, well, I know you didn't.

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And his father went off and taught him who he was and the doctrine of the premortal existence

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and how valued and true he faithful.

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He must have been in the premortal existence.

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Scott, it had a sobering effect on his son.

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And it's been that that boy that boy changed it just flipped it.

359
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It really flipped him.

360
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And soon afterwards, he he was on a mission and was a powerful missionary.

361
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I just I've never forgotten that the effect of that conversation.

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You think of Alma the Younger.

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00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:21,280
I mean, what is Alma the Younger?

364
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What is he experienced?

365
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What he experiences, he says, right?

366
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This is an Alma 36.

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What he experiences is he can remember the teachings of his father concerning one Jesus

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Christ.

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That's what changed Alma.

370
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It's not the angel striking him deaf and dumb or whatever.

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It's the teachings of his father.

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Now I'm sure some of our listeners have not had fathers who have given them the teachings

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of the doctrine.

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But they have fathers, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, prophets, seers and revelators.

375
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All of our listeners are children of the covenant.

376
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And we have the new covenant, which is the Book of Mormon.

377
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And we can learn from the prophets and the fathers in the Book of Mormon and in the scriptures

378
00:26:12,360 --> 00:26:18,160
about who we really are and get a glimpse of who we are.

379
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:26,280
And to just kind of put that into context now, part of our identity now really is that

380
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we are fallen.

381
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That we are prodigals.

382
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:32,240
We are.

383
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:33,480
We're all prodigals.

384
00:26:33,480 --> 00:26:35,560
We're all lost sheep, Scott.

385
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,480
We're all sinners just helping sinners.

386
00:26:38,480 --> 00:26:42,920
That you've got to keep that in mind when you speak of identity.

387
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Because if you forget that, if you just think you're an absolute spiritual being a saint,

388
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then what happens when you sin or when you're tempted or you're affected by sin?

389
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I've seen people just come unraveled, just completely fall apart because they either

390
00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:05,800
keep giving in to the same temptation.

391
00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,200
They think, well, that's just the way I am.

392
00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:09,800
That's just who I am.

393
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:15,520
And they throw in the towel and they give up and they have no regard for the atonement

394
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:22,920
of Jesus Christ because they haven't understood who they really are and the role of the fall

395
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:26,480
of Adam and Eve and the fall of all in their life.

396
00:27:26,480 --> 00:27:31,560
I think it's really critical to celebrate our humanness and to know that we're sinners

397
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and that we're prodigals and that we really need Jesus.

398
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And if we would over receive him and know that we can merit nothing of ourselves, but

399
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:45,760
because of him and his blood, we are saved, we are redeemed, that if I will just repent,

400
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:51,160
bow my head and say thank you like my wife does when she sins, she bows her head and

401
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:57,200
says thank you or renew our covenants when we partake of the sacrament and know that

402
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:02,440
we're forgiven and that the blood of Christ is applied in our life and our garments are

403
00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:04,440
washed white.

404
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:09,200
I don't know if you anyone that doesn't see that or understand that.

405
00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:10,200
Wow.

406
00:28:10,200 --> 00:28:14,600
It life is is going to be overpowering.

407
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:17,200
The world is going to be overpowering.

408
00:28:17,200 --> 00:28:20,360
And it's going to be too difficult to really.

409
00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:26,520
I mean, I think a lot of people who are maybe leaving the church are leaving the church Scott

410
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:35,640
because they don't really understand the role of the fall who they really are and that they

411
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:42,720
are fallen that they're lost and all of a sudden the temptations and the sins that they experience

412
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,960
all of a sudden become too much of their identity.

413
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We should never accept our eternal identity being determined by the temptations that we

414
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,880
experience daily.

415
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:57,880
Or even how we respond to those temptations.

416
00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,040
Or even how we respond to those.

417
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:06,080
That we should celebrate that we're human and know that we're affected by that.

418
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,480
But that's not who we really are.

419
00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:15,640
But so many people, you know, the accuser, he turns our temptations into our identity.

420
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:21,240
All of a sudden we have these temptations to do this and do that and we think, wow,

421
00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:22,320
I must be a pervert.

422
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:27,680
I must just be scum or else they just think, well, that's just who I am.

423
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,400
So that's just who I'm going to be.

424
00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:32,800
And they just accept it.

425
00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:41,200
So I just think it's so crucial to understand the fall and to celebrate it without allowing

426
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:48,640
it to become the pervasive view of ourselves.

427
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:54,880
Understanding the fall is important and it can definitely help us in all of that.

428
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:56,240
But there's a key to that too.

429
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:00,880
I mean, so, you know, we understand the fall, which is the father to the Atonement of Jesus

430
00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:03,680
Christ according to Bruce Armiconchi.

431
00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,280
But now we have to understand the Atonement and we're coming to that.

432
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:08,360
We're getting into that as we move along.

433
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,200
Yeah, I'm excited to do that.

434
00:30:10,200 --> 00:30:17,400
But you know, as parents, Deb and I have this conversation a lot and inevitably, you know,

435
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:21,520
when we talk about what is the one thing that we could give our children, you know, if you

436
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:24,720
could just give your kids one thing, what would it be?

437
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:26,840
You know, if you had a dream, what would you give?

438
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,240
Good to be talking about this before Christmas.

439
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,840
Yeah, yeah, you're right.

440
00:30:30,840 --> 00:30:32,840
What gifts can we give our children?

441
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,520
Because the gift of identity is right up there.

442
00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:42,000
If it's not at the very top, it's really, really close to the very top.

443
00:30:42,000 --> 00:30:43,480
Not just identity.

444
00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:44,480
True identity.

445
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:53,320
True and unadulterated, understood identity, who we really, really are.

446
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,640
Which includes not just being a son or daughter of God.

447
00:30:56,640 --> 00:30:59,520
I mean, literally.

448
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:06,840
But it's also to teach them that as a human, you're not going to be perfect.

449
00:31:06,840 --> 00:31:07,840
There you go.

450
00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:10,080
And you're not going to be sinless.

451
00:31:10,080 --> 00:31:11,080
Yeah.

452
00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:17,560
I think it's so important we teach our children that because if we're teaching our children

453
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:22,320
that they have to just, we just talk about keep the commandments, keep the commandments,

454
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,320
keep the commandments.

455
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:24,320
Yep.

456
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,240
And we don't teach them that they're fallen and that they're not always going to keep

457
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:29,240
the commandments.

458
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:39,440
I mean, this is a perfect time to maybe share the story with the Boyd K. Packer in a devotional

459
00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:40,440
at the MTC.

460
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,360
That was a branch president at the Missionary Training Center.

461
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:48,440
Boyd K. Packer came on a Tuesday night to do a devotional.

462
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:49,840
I'll never forget this.

463
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:50,840
Got it.

464
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:56,360
It flipped me as a parent forever and does as a grandparent continually.

465
00:31:56,360 --> 00:32:01,640
Anyway, he's talking to the missionaries and he tells the missionaries, we're not going

466
00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,400
to judge your success by the number of baptisms you have.

467
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:13,080
We're going to judge your success by the quality of your parenting and grandparenting.

468
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:18,680
We're going to judge you by what kind of parents or grandparents you become.

469
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:23,920
That's the measure of your success as a missionary.

470
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:29,760
It was, missionaries were really just remember looking in their faces.

471
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:33,800
I was sitting on the stand and looking into their faces.

472
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:42,800
And then he said, and on that note, I have some parenting advice for you.

473
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:48,840
And he has said this in general conference about the same time as about in 1989.

474
00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:57,360
He said, we now live in a world that is more wicked than it is righteous.

475
00:32:57,360 --> 00:33:06,600
And you are going to raise your children in a world that's conditions are slippery.

476
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,400
And it's going to be really hard.

477
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:15,800
And you're, you're going to raise your children teaching them to keep the commandments, but

478
00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:19,560
they're not always going to keep the commandments.

479
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,880
So here's my advice to you.

480
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:30,160
If you don't do a better job teaching your children the atonement of Jesus Christ and

481
00:33:30,160 --> 00:33:37,240
how to access the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ and his atonement, you're going

482
00:33:37,240 --> 00:33:43,640
to lose your children because they're not always going to keep the commandments.

483
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,640
Oh, man, that went into my heart.

484
00:33:47,640 --> 00:33:50,200
My wife was with me and my sweetheart.

485
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,720
And she wrote that down and man, that went deep into our hearts.

486
00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,440
And little did we know, you know, our children were young then.

487
00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:03,040
Little did we know how much, how much truth there would be in that.

488
00:34:03,040 --> 00:34:11,160
And I've had my children, you know, thank me for, for if it weren't for the atonement

489
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:18,840
of Jesus Christ God, I would have lost some of my children for sure.

490
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,840
Because they didn't always keep the commandments.

491
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,120
My children didn't, your children didn't.

492
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:27,160
None of our listeners' children are going to keep all the commandments.

493
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:31,200
And if all we teach them is that they have to keep the commandments, then they don't

494
00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:35,480
understand that they're fallen, that they're prodigals, that they're lost sheep, that they're

495
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:39,920
sinners, and that they need the atonement of Jesus Christ and how to access that in their

496
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:40,920
life.

497
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:41,920
Wow.

498
00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:42,920
Yeah.

499
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:43,920
No wonder.

500
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:44,920
No wonder.

501
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:47,640
I know there's other reasons.

502
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:49,360
I know there's lots of other factors.

503
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:53,920
I'm not, you know, but no wonder so many are leaving.

504
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,200
And, and just one quick note before I forget.

505
00:34:57,200 --> 00:35:04,480
We have this, I have this friend in our ward and she was kind of thinking about leaving

506
00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,560
the church.

507
00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:11,960
And she invited me to come over and talk to her about it.

508
00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:12,960
I mean, bless her heart.

509
00:35:12,960 --> 00:35:15,560
You know, she, she was open about it.

510
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:20,520
She didn't necessarily want to, but she was thinking about it.

511
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:25,440
I remember going over there and talking to her and her husband, the young couple, both

512
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:34,720
three term missionaries and special, special couple, a beautiful couple, spirit in their

513
00:35:34,720 --> 00:35:37,160
home and all of that.

514
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:39,080
So, so great.

515
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:46,800
And I just remember, you know, telling them it's not about the church, it's about the

516
00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:52,360
atonement of Jesus Christ and what the, what the doctrine that's been restored teaches

517
00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,200
us about the atonement of Jesus Christ.

518
00:35:56,200 --> 00:36:01,080
It's what the Book of Mormon teaches us about the atonement of Jesus Christ.

519
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:04,320
Just focus on the Savior.

520
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:11,880
Focus on your need on the Savior and how to, how to have a relationship, how to have a,

521
00:36:11,880 --> 00:36:15,380
a more special relationship with Him.

522
00:36:15,380 --> 00:36:16,880
Just focus on that.

523
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:22,600
Anyway, we talked a lot about that in, in our last Fast and Testimony meeting, which

524
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:28,640
I guess was just a week and a half ago, two weeks ago, few weeks ago.

525
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:34,840
She stood up for her testimony and she talked about how just focus, she was, she was talking

526
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:43,640
about how she was kind of leaning towards leaving the church, but focusing on the Savior

527
00:36:43,640 --> 00:36:45,800
and the atonement of Jesus Christ.

528
00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:52,480
Not only how she changed, not only changed her about how she felt about herself or, or

529
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:59,960
her Savior and Redeemer and her relationship with God, but it changed how she saw everyone

530
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:01,120
in the church.

531
00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,720
It changed her perspective how she saw the church.

532
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:05,880
It changed how she saw the world.

533
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:08,160
It changes everything, Scott.

534
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:15,400
So I just, we, we have to, we have to know who we are, but we also have to know that

535
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,600
because of the fall of Adam and Eve, that we're not going to be perfect.

536
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:21,360
We're not going to be sinless.

537
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:22,840
That's not our identity.

538
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:27,960
That's just the reality and that because of the atonement of Jesus Christ, we can actually

539
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,760
celebrate this mortal, hellish experience.

540
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:33,240
Yeah.

541
00:37:33,240 --> 00:37:38,360
You know, you're, you're talking about your friend and your ward and about how focusing

542
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:42,720
on the atonement of Jesus Christ is really key and it really is key.

543
00:37:42,720 --> 00:37:46,040
You know, we, we do talk, the restoration was important.

544
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:47,320
We needed the Book of Mormon.

545
00:37:47,320 --> 00:37:52,400
We needed all of the things that came as a part, even a deeper and greater understanding

546
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:56,880
and more clear and concise understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ, but not just

547
00:37:56,880 --> 00:37:59,960
that, but the ability to access those powers.

548
00:37:59,960 --> 00:38:00,960
Exactly.

549
00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:04,800
Restored covenants, ordinances, sacred ordinances.

550
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:05,800
Yep.

551
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:10,320
And we enter those, and we enter those covenants through those ordinances and those ordinances

552
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:12,440
are extremely important for us to have as well.

553
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:19,800
So as we talk about all of the trials and, you know, and confusion around faith can be

554
00:38:19,800 --> 00:38:26,560
one of those, you know, confusion around faith, confusion around my ability to keep commandments

555
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:30,360
or a certain commandment, you know, all of these things play in.

556
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:37,200
And if we only focus on, if we only focus on the, the fall of Adam and Eve and, you know,

557
00:38:37,200 --> 00:38:43,560
if all of our focus is just on the effects of the fall, then of course we identify there.

558
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:44,560
Yeah.

559
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:45,560
You know, of course we do.

560
00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:48,120
Of course we identify, well, yeah, I'm broken.

561
00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:50,120
I'm, I'm, I'm a result of the fall.

562
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:52,520
I'm a product of the fall of Adam and Eve.

563
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:53,520
Of course I'm broken.

564
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:54,800
Of course I'm a mistake.

565
00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:55,800
Of course.

566
00:38:55,800 --> 00:38:56,800
And then we get down on ourselves.

567
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:01,720
And so until we have the ability to look to the atonement of Jesus Christ and hope that

568
00:39:01,720 --> 00:39:07,880
He comes through that, then the fall is hopeless until we can come to that understanding.

569
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:10,200
So it's important for us to understand that.

570
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,200
Absolutely.

571
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:15,960
In fact, Scott, I wrote something, you know, since you're talking about brokenness and

572
00:39:15,960 --> 00:39:20,680
being flawed, I wrote something a long time ago.

573
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:24,960
It was early in the morning, I don't know, four or five in the morning, then I woke up

574
00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:28,800
and as I like to do, this happens often, regularly.

575
00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:35,920
I like to ponder and, and I've had a lot of revelations playing it better in the morning,

576
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:36,920
Scott.

577
00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:37,920
Yeah.

578
00:39:37,920 --> 00:39:38,920
Yeah.

579
00:39:38,920 --> 00:39:42,560
And I like to get my phone and go to notes and write down some of my thoughts.

580
00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:48,200
And one morning I wrote this down and I wrote down, we're not broken and we're not flawed.

581
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:53,760
To say we're broken or flawed, the notes that sinning and being fallen was not part of God's

582
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:54,760
perfect plan.

583
00:39:54,760 --> 00:39:56,520
That's right.

584
00:39:56,520 --> 00:40:00,080
Sinning and flawed should never be our identity.

585
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:01,920
We are weak.

586
00:40:01,920 --> 00:40:03,640
We are fallen.

587
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:05,440
We are sinners.

588
00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:07,840
But that was all part of the plan.

589
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:12,640
I mean, every father knew that's the way we would be.

590
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:20,840
However, we should never allow our sins or our temptations or our weaknesses to become

591
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,280
our identity.

592
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:24,800
Man is spirit.

593
00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:28,200
We are of divine parentage that will never change.

594
00:40:28,200 --> 00:40:34,760
We cannot be broken like a toy or flawed because we were created by God.

595
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:36,120
There you go.

596
00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:41,360
God doesn't make junk because we are human of the flesh.

597
00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:47,640
We will be tempted and sin when we break commandments or we break covenants.

598
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:48,640
Okay.

599
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,240
We may not be broken, but we may break commandments.

600
00:40:54,240 --> 00:40:58,520
We sever or break our relationships with theity.

601
00:40:58,520 --> 00:41:05,640
The at one month restores and reconciliates makes whole those relationships when we have

602
00:41:05,640 --> 00:41:08,680
a broken heart and contrite spirit.

603
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:15,280
Hearts can be broken, but not spirits, children of God.

604
00:41:15,280 --> 00:41:18,800
Having a broken heart is a positive, not a negative.

605
00:41:18,800 --> 00:41:21,320
Broken hearts are not mended.

606
00:41:21,320 --> 00:41:25,760
They are replaced, God gives us a new heart.

607
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,000
That's in the Ezekiel.

608
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:34,680
Believing or saying we are broken or flawed may make it too easy to rationalize or minimize

609
00:41:34,680 --> 00:41:36,800
sin.

610
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:43,880
Even as a fallen sinner, we should never see ourselves as damaged goods.

611
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:50,880
God loves a broken heart when we sin, but he hates it when Saint convinces us that because

612
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:55,120
of sin, we are broken or flawed.

613
00:41:55,120 --> 00:42:01,120
I know that's kind of what you're saying, but I remember having that strong impression

614
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:04,240
come into my mind.

615
00:42:04,240 --> 00:42:10,000
I know there are songs about being broken, you know, some great Christian songs even

616
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:11,960
about being broken.

617
00:42:11,960 --> 00:42:15,600
Maybe what we should think about is I want to have a broken heart.

618
00:42:15,600 --> 00:42:16,900
There you go.

619
00:42:16,900 --> 00:42:18,600
But I'm not broken or flawed.

620
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:19,600
That's right.

621
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,720
We are not broken, we are not.

622
00:42:21,720 --> 00:42:27,700
What keeps us in that broken state or that broken vision of ourselves is when we are

623
00:42:27,700 --> 00:42:32,040
stuck in that one part of eternity only.

624
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:33,680
The fallen part of eternity only.

625
00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:34,920
The smallest part.

626
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:37,080
The small, very small part.

627
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:38,160
Such a small part.

628
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:41,040
But when we get stuck there, we don't have vision beyond it.

629
00:42:41,040 --> 00:42:48,480
We don't have the memory before it, which creates a deep vision before or I mean a deep

630
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:49,720
vision after it.

631
00:42:49,720 --> 00:42:58,640
So if we get stuck in the middle of everything, then life is going to be really terrible.

632
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,760
Even in life's challenges, if we have the remembrance of who we are and all that that

633
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:09,560
entails, if we have because of that remembrance and understanding of the redemption and all

634
00:43:09,560 --> 00:43:14,440
that that entails, which is, and let's not forget the importance of the enabling powers

635
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:19,980
of Christ's Atonement that come to us, that help us to overcome the feelings of the effects

636
00:43:19,980 --> 00:43:24,840
of the fall of Adam and Eve, then if we stay stuck there, then we're just stuck.

637
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:26,760
Well, I love the Scripture.

638
00:43:26,760 --> 00:43:30,760
It's one that I memorized years ago, Scott.

639
00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:32,560
You know this.

640
00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:37,600
I think this may be a favorite of many missionaries, it seems like.

641
00:43:37,600 --> 00:43:42,200
And if men come unto me, I will show unto them their weakness.

642
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:47,400
Ether 1227, I give unto men weakness.

643
00:43:47,400 --> 00:43:48,400
I love this.

644
00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,040
I love this line right here, Scott.

645
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:56,640
I give unto men weakness that they might be humble.

646
00:43:56,640 --> 00:44:04,800
And if they humble themselves before me and have faith in me, I will make weak things,

647
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,440
become strong unto them.

648
00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:11,640
And the one thing I left out of that verse, Scott, which is my absolute favorite part

649
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:20,960
of the entire verse, which is right in the center of the verse is my grace is sufficient.

650
00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:29,080
And grace in the Bible dictionary is the definition for grace in the Bible dictionary

651
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:32,920
is the enabling power.

652
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:40,840
My grace is sufficient for all those who humble themselves before me.

653
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:47,160
If we I mean really it's as sinners as prodigals as lost sheep.

654
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:53,120
If we will just humble ourselves before God, knowing that he has given us weakness.

655
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:55,320
He has provided the fall.

656
00:44:55,320 --> 00:44:57,880
The fall was part of his plan.

657
00:44:57,880 --> 00:45:04,840
If we would kneel in humility, accepting that.

658
00:45:04,840 --> 00:45:11,960
Knowing that's part of his plan and then relying on him.

659
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:17,760
Scott that is a totally different approach to life.

660
00:45:17,760 --> 00:45:23,760
It would it it change it would just change all of us.

661
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,760
So I I love the doctrine.

662
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:34,600
I love the doctrine of the fall and the Book of Mormon teaches it, you know, so powerfully.

663
00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,400
The first place it appears is Lehi.

664
00:45:37,400 --> 00:45:42,120
I think it's just awesome that Nephi preserved the teaching of Lehi.

665
00:45:42,120 --> 00:45:48,440
It's in the if you want to read it, Scott, it's a first Nephi chapter 10.

666
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:51,480
First Nephi chapter 10, I think it's verses five and six.

667
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,720
Do you want to look that up?

668
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,480
And let's read first Nephi chapter 10.

669
00:45:56,480 --> 00:45:57,480
Is it five and six?

670
00:45:57,480 --> 00:46:00,440
Yeah, it is is five and six.

671
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:06,360
And and he also spoke concerning the prophets how great a number had testified these things

672
00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:12,640
concerning the Messiah of whom he had spoken or this Redeemer of the world.

673
00:46:12,640 --> 00:46:19,920
Wherefore all mankind were in a lost and fallen state and ever would be and ever would be.

674
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:20,920
Wow.

675
00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:26,400
Save they should rely on this Redeemer.

676
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:34,360
That's Nephi quoting Lehi right off the bat in the Book of Mormon.

677
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:38,400
If you don't accept the fall, you can't rely on Christ.

678
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:47,200
And if you don't rely on Christ, I just it's there it is.

679
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,400
The Bible.

680
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:52,440
I love the Bible, Scott, and I know it's true.

681
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:55,480
The Bible is the word of God.

682
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,160
But the fall is somewhat missing.

683
00:46:59,160 --> 00:47:01,200
The doctrine of the fall is somewhat missing.

684
00:47:01,200 --> 00:47:07,680
I know Paul comes really close to describing it in in lots of verses.

685
00:47:07,680 --> 00:47:10,480
They are, you know, I love 1 Corinthians 15.

686
00:47:10,480 --> 00:47:17,000
I think it's 2021, you know, where where he talks about, you know, our need for the Redeemer

687
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:25,600
as an animal die as an animal die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.

688
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:27,680
Well there it is.

689
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:28,680
That's the truth.

690
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:34,920
But the Book of Mormon in greater detail in the in somewhat greater plainness and simplicity

691
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:41,760
teaches this doctrine of the fall in the relationship of the fall at the atonement of Jesus Christ

692
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,720
and the Messiah.

693
00:47:43,720 --> 00:47:52,080
Let's let's look at, for example, how about 2 Nephi chapter 4, you know, where Nephi himself

694
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:59,560
I don't want to say celebrate because some people think he's in a state of depression

695
00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:00,560
here.

696
00:48:00,560 --> 00:48:06,440
He just fathers just died and and he probably is a little sad melancholy.

697
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:12,400
And in 2 Nephi chapter 4 verse 17, if you want to read that, Scott, nevertheless, not

698
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:17,840
withstanding the great goodness of the Lord in showing me his great marvelous works, my

699
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:24,400
heart exclaimeth, O wretched man that I am, yea, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh,

700
00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:27,640
my soul grievous because of mine iniquities.

701
00:48:27,640 --> 00:48:33,320
So I know, I know it doesn't sound like he's celebrating the fall there.

702
00:48:33,320 --> 00:48:38,560
O wretched man that I am, my heart sorroweth because of my flesh.

703
00:48:38,560 --> 00:48:47,200
However, he is acknowledging in a powerful way that he's that he's only human.

704
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:53,680
That because of the flesh, that that there are weakness, that there's sin, that there's

705
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:58,160
all of that in him and that he knows he's going to die.

706
00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,840
He knows his father has just died.

707
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:04,240
The flesh can be hard.

708
00:49:04,240 --> 00:49:09,880
You know, we know that the reason we came down here and there was a fall was so that

709
00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:17,520
there would be opposition so that we could fully have our agency tested and our agency

710
00:49:17,520 --> 00:49:23,160
could be fully operative that we would have choices, but that it was through the fall

711
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:27,520
that again, that we would taste the bitter that we might know the sweet.

712
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:29,000
But look at look at what he said.

713
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,120
I mean, verse 18, what does he say in verse 18?

714
00:49:32,120 --> 00:49:34,240
He's kind of talking about the fall here.

715
00:49:34,240 --> 00:49:39,080
He says, I'm encompassed about because of the temptations and the sins which do easy

716
00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:48,120
it, which do so easily beset me Nephi and all the prophet sin.

717
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:51,000
It's just as part of mortality, Scott.

718
00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:57,240
And to think that that way, like brother Robinson said, to be a spiritual masochist and and

719
00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:04,160
think that we don't even want to sin or that we will never sin.

720
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:11,400
Just sets us up to fail because the sins beset all of us so easily in this life.

721
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:13,280
Well, there's even sin in that thinking.

722
00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:16,040
There's even sin in that thought.

723
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,040
Right?

724
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,040
There is.

725
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:19,040
Yeah.

726
00:50:19,040 --> 00:50:20,160
I mean, that's just part of our flesh.

727
00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:21,160
I know.

728
00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:22,680
But okay now.

729
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:23,680
Okay.

730
00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:25,120
So in 19 he goes on verse 19.

731
00:50:25,120 --> 00:50:26,120
He gets into.

732
00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:27,120
But.

733
00:50:27,120 --> 00:50:30,000
Well, this kind of bridges it really well, too.

734
00:50:30,000 --> 00:50:35,600
He says, when I desire and when I desire to rejoice, my heart growneth and we're all

735
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:36,600
that way.

736
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:37,600
Right?

737
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:38,600
Yeah.

738
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:39,600
Yeah.

739
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,000
When we have the desire to be happy, when we have the desire to be joyful, broken hearted.

740
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,000
Exactly.

741
00:50:44,000 --> 00:50:46,280
My heart growneth or because of my sins.

742
00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:48,640
His heart's broken because of my sins.

743
00:50:48,640 --> 00:50:49,640
Nevertheless.

744
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:50,640
And this is key.

745
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:52,520
This is the this the atonement.

746
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:56,920
Nevertheless, I know in whom I have trusted.

747
00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:57,920
I'm going to read 20.

748
00:50:57,920 --> 00:50:58,920
Oh yeah.

749
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:00,960
And 21 actually.

750
00:51:00,960 --> 00:51:03,360
My God hath been my support.

751
00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:08,200
He hath led me through mine afflictions in the wilderness and he hath preserved me upon

752
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:09,680
the waters of the great deep.

753
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:15,200
Now I'm just going to pause right there because God preserves us in our wildernesses and in

754
00:51:15,200 --> 00:51:17,240
our waters of the great deep.

755
00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,640
You know, we look at Nephi and think, well, this guy, he was pretty special.

756
00:51:20,640 --> 00:51:22,320
You know, he had a prophet father.

757
00:51:22,320 --> 00:51:23,960
He had all this stuff going on.

758
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:26,080
And that's all true.

759
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:27,600
And that's all true.

760
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:33,840
But Heavenly Father does not love me less and has provided me with similar opportunity

761
00:51:33,840 --> 00:51:35,440
through the atonement.

762
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:40,200
And when I say similar opportunity, at least similar opportunity to know in whom I have

763
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:42,840
trusted and we find the comfort that comes from that.

764
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:43,840
Yeah.

765
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:44,840
Sorry to interrupt.

766
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:52,360
So remember, remember, Scott, that the real key to Nephi is stated in the very first verse

767
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:54,440
of the Book of Mormon.

768
00:51:54,440 --> 00:51:57,280
I knew I was favored.

769
00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:00,400
I was favored of God.

770
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:02,440
See it's back to his identity.

771
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:03,440
Exactly.

772
00:52:03,440 --> 00:52:05,640
It's back to his identity.

773
00:52:05,640 --> 00:52:08,480
How could he go through the wilderness?

774
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:12,840
Because he knew he was favored, even though he was in a wilderness, even though sins did

775
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:18,960
easily beset him, even though he did make many mistakes and it was, I'm sure, in dark

776
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:22,600
places and some of it his fault, some of it is not his fault.

777
00:52:22,600 --> 00:52:27,480
I mean, it was mortal, but he knew who he was.

778
00:52:27,480 --> 00:52:28,480
Right.

779
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:33,520
I just think it's that's kind of the key was his identity.

780
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:38,520
And by the way, on that thought, that was the key to Jesus himself.

781
00:52:38,520 --> 00:52:39,520
Yeah.

782
00:52:39,520 --> 00:52:47,320
The reason Jesus was able to overcome all that he overcame and the reason that Jesus

783
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:52,040
gave well, Jesus, he didn't even give he did, but he was tempted.

784
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:53,760
We're going to talk about that.

785
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,200
Jesus suffered temptations.

786
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:57,560
That's Paul in Hebrews.

787
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:58,960
He suffered temptations.

788
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:00,320
That's King Benjamin.

789
00:53:00,320 --> 00:53:01,440
It's all Alma.

790
00:53:01,440 --> 00:53:09,320
But the reason Jesus was Jesus was because he knew who he was.

791
00:53:09,320 --> 00:53:12,320
He knew who his father was at age 12.

792
00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:15,880
Should I not be about my father's business?

793
00:53:15,880 --> 00:53:17,080
I mean, he knew.

794
00:53:17,080 --> 00:53:21,000
I think other Maconkey says by the time he's eight years old, he knows he knows he's the

795
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,000
son of God.

796
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:23,440
He knows who he is.

797
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:27,600
And that is what gives him power.

798
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,560
And he has all of those traits.

799
00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,320
But anyway, I think identity is so critical.

800
00:53:35,320 --> 00:53:42,480
Our eternal identity is so critical to get us through our mortal celebration of being

801
00:53:42,480 --> 00:53:43,480
human.

802
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:48,920
And then the celebration would not be possible if we didn't know that we had a redeemer.

803
00:53:48,920 --> 00:53:50,960
Anyway, you want to read the rest of that verse?

804
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,680
So again, I'm going to go back to 21.

805
00:53:53,680 --> 00:53:58,680
He hath filled me with his love even unto the consuming of my flesh.

806
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:05,800
And then 22, he hath confounded my enemies unto the causing of them to quake before me.

807
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:10,440
Now when we think of Nephi's enemies, we think of obviously people.

808
00:54:10,440 --> 00:54:15,840
But when we think of our own enemies and even Nephi's enemies there, we should think of number

809
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:24,200
one, the enemy of us all, and we should think of all things that come from that enemy.

810
00:54:24,200 --> 00:54:29,680
All those things that do so easily beset us, you said that earlier, those things that do

811
00:54:29,680 --> 00:54:38,080
so easily beset us, quake before us if we know, A, in whom we have trusted and we have

812
00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:44,920
put our trust in him and we believe and have had the opportunity and the experiences through

813
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,640
covenant experience, etc., to take upon us his name so that that can be taken place in

814
00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:50,640
our own lives too.

815
00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:56,480
Well, and I love, I'm just going to read a few more, just kind of skip through the rest

816
00:54:56,480 --> 00:54:59,640
of a few verses here in 2 Nephi 4.

817
00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:05,480
Oh Lord, wilt thou encircle me around in the robe of thy righteousness?

818
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:12,360
Verse 34, Oh Lord, I have trusted in thee, and I will trust in thee forever.

819
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:21,800
Verse 35, the last verse, I will cry unto thee, my God, the rock of my righteousness.

820
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:29,560
You know, Nephi learned from his father, Lehi, who taught Nephi's younger brother, Jacob,

821
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:38,560
that it is because of the righteousness of thy redeemer that thou art saved.

822
00:55:38,560 --> 00:55:45,280
And Nephi knew that, Nephi knew he wasn't righteous, but that he could trust in the rock of his

823
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:49,320
righteousness, which was Jesus Christ.

824
00:55:49,320 --> 00:55:54,520
Well, hopefully the fall helps us to feel that, Scott.

825
00:55:54,520 --> 00:56:02,960
Hopefully the fall, like the prodigal sun, when we see ourselves, which I see myself

826
00:56:02,960 --> 00:56:13,240
regularly feeding with this wine, giving some too much credence to the sins and problems

827
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:21,240
of the world, hopefully the fall helps us to come unto ourselves, to know who we really

828
00:56:21,240 --> 00:56:28,600
are and to not forget who we really are and to proclaim as the prodigal did, I'm going

829
00:56:28,600 --> 00:56:31,360
to return to my father.

830
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:34,280
I'm going to return to my father.

831
00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:39,800
And I know that he, like that great parable in Luke 15, the prodigal son, that he is

832
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:45,760
standing there looking and waiting for us to come back.

833
00:56:45,760 --> 00:56:48,400
We've just kind of introduced the fall, Scott.

834
00:56:48,400 --> 00:56:51,920
We didn't get to half the scriptures that we'd kind of outlined to get to.

835
00:56:51,920 --> 00:56:56,800
Well, we can continue this next week, and I think it'll be important that we do.

836
00:56:56,800 --> 00:56:58,720
Maybe just in conclusion.

837
00:56:58,720 --> 00:57:04,360
You know, I love the, I love the primary song, I'm trying to be like Jesus.

838
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:07,720
And we've been taught that we should try to try to be like Jesus.

839
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:09,360
And it's true.

840
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:13,240
And he, and he actually exhorted us, right?

841
00:57:13,240 --> 00:57:20,800
To be perfect as I am perfect in the parable at the temple in the Book of Mormon in 30

842
00:57:20,800 --> 00:57:29,200
12 and in the Bible in Matthew, in Matthew chapter five verse 48, be therefore perfect

843
00:57:29,200 --> 00:57:33,080
even as I or your father who is in heaven is perfect.

844
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:40,680
So so we know, we know that we should strive to be to be like Jesus.

845
00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:44,720
And we all love that amazing primary song.

846
00:57:44,720 --> 00:57:50,480
And I remember President Irving quoting it and getting really emotional when he quoted

847
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:51,480
it.

848
00:57:51,480 --> 00:57:53,160
I think it was in a priesthood meeting years ago.

849
00:57:53,160 --> 00:57:55,000
I'm trying to be like Jesus.

850
00:57:55,000 --> 00:58:06,840
Well, I, I love the song, but we're not going to be like Jesus who gave no heed to temptation.

851
00:58:06,840 --> 00:58:13,360
It's just not going to be mortally possible that we in this life become like Jesus.

852
00:58:13,360 --> 00:58:16,560
I hope that I can be his hands.

853
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:19,960
I hope that sometimes by the spirit, we can be his voice.

854
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:26,040
I hope that we can serve and take on the characteristics of Jesus Christ and really

855
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:32,680
make that an intentional part of our daily life is to seek to become like Jesus.

856
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:36,960
But I was bringing this up with a group of seminary and institute teachers that I was

857
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,760
teaching the course on the divine gift of forgiveness to.

858
00:58:40,760 --> 00:58:46,000
And I said, you know, I, I love that song, but I wish it said something about the fact

859
00:58:46,000 --> 00:58:50,200
that we're all fallen that we're all lost and we're not going to be like Jesus in this

860
00:58:50,200 --> 00:58:52,700
life.

861
00:58:52,700 --> 00:58:58,200
And I had a seminary teacher who, who wrote me and he said, I wonder if I could write

862
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:03,040
some words and capture the concept of redemption in the song.

863
00:59:03,040 --> 00:59:05,240
I'm trying to be like Jesus.

864
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:08,760
He says it's far from perfect, but here's what I came up with.

865
00:59:08,760 --> 00:59:11,920
So here's another verse is how many verses are there in that?

866
00:59:11,920 --> 00:59:12,920
Oh, I have no idea.

867
00:59:12,920 --> 00:59:14,720
Anyway, this would be the third or fourth.

868
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:15,720
Yeah.

869
00:59:15,720 --> 00:59:19,640
And I wish they would add to that primary hymn.

870
00:59:19,640 --> 00:59:22,960
And I really love this, Scott.

871
00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:26,840
And this is my good friend, Tucker Boyle, who wrote this.

872
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:27,840
I'm trying.

873
00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:30,000
I hope you can hear the kind of music because I say it.

874
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:31,000
Okay.

875
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:32,000
I should play it in the back.

876
00:59:32,000 --> 00:59:33,000
Maybe you can hum it.

877
00:59:33,000 --> 00:59:35,040
Yeah, well, probably not.

878
00:59:35,040 --> 00:59:41,000
I'm trying to be like Jesus, but stumbling along the way.

879
00:59:41,000 --> 00:59:48,520
I struggle to live as he did in all that I do and say, but though I may falter and make

880
00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:56,960
a wrong choice, I find hope and forgiveness as the still small voice whispers trust in

881
00:59:56,960 --> 01:00:01,400
the Savior and know this is true.

882
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:06,680
His grace is sufficient for mortals like you.

883
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:17,640
His love is still constant, repent and fear not for these are the things Jesus taught.

884
01:00:17,640 --> 01:00:19,800
That's the doctrine of the fall.

885
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:20,800
Yeah.

886
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:21,800
And the atonement.

887
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:26,240
I'm grateful that Tucker shared that with me.

888
01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:27,720
I love that song.

889
01:00:27,720 --> 01:00:29,520
I'm trying to be like Jesus.

890
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:35,680
And a couple of years ago when you first shared that, that Tucker had written, I love the

891
01:00:35,680 --> 01:00:36,680
song even more.

892
01:00:36,680 --> 01:00:37,680
I know.

893
01:00:37,680 --> 01:00:40,560
I think about it every time I've seen or heard a song.

894
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:41,880
I think of that verse.

895
01:00:41,880 --> 01:00:47,200
I kind of want to print those words and have my have our Institute to students saying that

896
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:50,480
to one at one night at beginning of class.

897
01:00:50,480 --> 01:00:58,240
But anyway, I need to talk to my good friend, Ryan Agat, who has some assignments, church,

898
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:01,440
Salt Lake headquarters, putting the new hymn book together.

899
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:02,440
There you go.

900
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,560
Maybe you say if you're going to put that in there, you should include this verse.

901
01:01:05,560 --> 01:01:06,560
What?

902
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:08,840
What would you see if you could get that?

903
01:01:08,840 --> 01:01:11,080
But thanks so much for being with us today.

904
01:01:11,080 --> 01:01:13,240
We've barely scratched the surface.

905
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:18,680
We've got a lot more that we can and probably will talk about when it comes to this very

906
01:01:18,680 --> 01:01:25,120
most important topic, you know, the understanding who we are and it's how that relates, how

907
01:01:25,120 --> 01:01:31,360
our identity relates to the experiences that we still experience that we still participate

908
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:34,080
in as a result of the fall of Adam and Eve.

909
01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:38,600
Or the spiritual death and the physical death and all that's entailed and involved with

910
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:44,840
that and that is answered by the Atom and the power of Jesus Christ that comes through

911
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,840
his Atom.

912
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:52,200
We'll probably carry this out again next next episode a little bit as we move into this.

913
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:56,960
But what an exciting experience it is to one more time go through these very important

914
01:01:56,960 --> 01:01:57,960
concepts.

915
01:01:57,960 --> 01:01:58,960
Dave, do you have anything finally you want to share?

916
01:01:58,960 --> 01:01:59,960
No, thank you.

917
01:01:59,960 --> 01:02:07,160
I'm forward to continuing this next week again all of this to help us to learn really how

918
01:02:07,160 --> 01:02:13,680
to rely on Jesus Christ and strengthen our relationship with him.

919
01:02:13,680 --> 01:02:18,520
Would you all please just take a moment this week as an assignment and maybe even contemplate

920
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:23,640
this as we're partaking of the sacrament as we retain a remission of sins there that

921
01:02:23,640 --> 01:02:30,720
on Sunday, but maybe we could just be thinking about how am I responding to the effects of

922
01:02:30,720 --> 01:02:32,200
the fall of Adam and Eve.

923
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,160
And to thank Heavenly Father for the fall.

924
01:02:35,160 --> 01:02:43,160
And then to cast our vision forward to the redemption and how all of that, although

925
01:02:43,160 --> 01:02:46,080
those things can be made right and whole for us.

926
01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:47,080
Thanks for being with us.

927
01:02:47,080 --> 01:02:51,480
We look forward to being with you again next week and until then be well.

928
01:02:51,480 --> 01:03:06,320
Take care everybody.