1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,960 Hey there everybody and welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,360 Scott Durfey here, joined as always by Uncle David. 3 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,360 What's up Dave? 4 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:27,440 Hey, Scott on my way over here. 5 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:34,560 I was listening to John Denver sing and I love John Denver's Christmas album, Rocky Mountain 6 00:00:34,560 --> 00:00:36,560 Christmas. 7 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:40,880 And I was listening to it and he was singing Aspen Glow. 8 00:00:40,880 --> 00:00:43,880 I think that's the name of the song. 9 00:00:43,880 --> 00:00:48,160 He had this little saying and I thought, yeah, I can, I can relate to that. 10 00:00:48,160 --> 00:00:54,760 He was saying as the weather gets colder, our hearts grow warmer. 11 00:00:54,760 --> 00:00:58,440 And I thought, I just thought about that. 12 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:03,120 Rest the way over here and thought, you know, there's, this really is a special time of 13 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:04,120 the year. 14 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:10,800 I know it can be also a hard time of the year for many people, but I think generally it 15 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:16,880 can be such a special time of the year as the seasons change and the weather gets colder. 16 00:01:16,880 --> 00:01:23,800 It seems that our hearts gets warmer as we get closer to Thanksgiving and Christmas and 17 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,960 all that we have to be thankful for such a great time of the year. 18 00:01:26,960 --> 00:01:32,600 Yeah, you know, I went to an Alcoholics Anonymous meeting Saturday and as it gets colder and 19 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,000 as we get closer to the holidays, those rooms swell. 20 00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:37,000 Really? 21 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:38,000 Yeah. 22 00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:45,400 Well, you know, this season brings out the magnifying glass and makes our problems and 23 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:46,400 misalignments. 24 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:48,040 Let's put it that way. 25 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:49,120 Seem even bigger. 26 00:01:49,120 --> 00:01:51,420 This is a time typically for family. 27 00:01:51,420 --> 00:01:55,160 It's not uncommon for Alcoholics and addicts and those who suffer from those types of things 28 00:01:55,160 --> 00:02:00,600 to have estranged themselves from their families or to not even have a family in a lot of cases. 29 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,000 I know that's true. 30 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:05,320 I've been aware of that as a member when I was a bishop. 31 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:12,520 It was such a hard time of the year for members of our ward who were alone or lonely and kind 32 00:02:12,520 --> 00:02:13,520 of down and out. 33 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:14,920 It's it does magnify. 34 00:02:14,920 --> 00:02:17,200 I think you're right. 35 00:02:17,200 --> 00:02:20,720 Magnifies our challenges and problems. 36 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:27,760 But it also can be such a time to humble ourselves and examine ourselves, which is part of the 37 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:34,200 reason why, you know, more people who who aren't happy with where they're at, they become 38 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:36,880 extremely unhappy with where they're at. 39 00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:45,840 So I anyway, I think it's I'm grateful to feel that that line is for the most part true. 40 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:52,440 The weather gets colder, our hearts get warmer and hope it is for all of our listeners. 41 00:02:52,440 --> 00:02:57,800 Scott, I had a thought and I thought I would share it today, even though it's it's not 42 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:58,800 on our topic. 43 00:02:58,800 --> 00:03:01,360 We're going to talk about the premortal existence today. 44 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:05,960 Finish our conversation and our lesson on the premoral existence today, which is one 45 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,240 of my favorite topics. 46 00:03:09,240 --> 00:03:18,840 But I I read this quote and I just really loved it and wanted to share it today. 47 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:21,880 It's actually from a general conference years ago. 48 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:32,600 Sister Joey Jones, primary president of the church, and she she wrote. 49 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:38,800 If the love we feel for the Savior, we could say love and focus that we feel for the Savior. 50 00:03:38,800 --> 00:03:46,320 And what he did for us is greater than the energy we give to weaknesses, self doubts, 51 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:50,520 bad habits or poor circumstances. 52 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:56,600 Then he will help us overcome the things which cause misery in our lives. 53 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,640 He saves us from ourselves. 54 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:06,840 Let me reemphasize, she wrote, if the pole of the world is stronger than the faith and 55 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:14,560 trust we have in the Savior, then the pole of the world will prevail every time. 56 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:22,960 If we choose to focus on our negative thoughts and doubts, our worth or sorry, if we choose 57 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:30,960 to focus on our negative thoughts and doubt our worth, instead of trusting in and relying 58 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:36,800 on the Savior, it becomes more difficult to feel the impressions of the world. 59 00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:41,640 Of the Holy Ghost and to feel peace and joy in our life. 60 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,440 I just think that's so great. 61 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:44,440 It's so true. 62 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:45,440 I know that's true. 63 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,000 It just really spoke to me. 64 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:48,560 So you're right, Scott. 65 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:51,000 It's about what do we choose to focus on? 66 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:57,320 And if we and it takes energy to focus, whatever you choose to focus on, negative or positive, 67 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:03,760 good or bad, spiritual or worldly, whatever you choose to focus on, it takes energy. 68 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,400 Believe it or not, it's a choice. 69 00:05:07,400 --> 00:05:10,000 It is a personal, individual choice. 70 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:14,460 If you choose to focus your thoughts on that, it's not a choice. 71 00:05:14,460 --> 00:05:18,320 We don't always have a choice what thoughts come into our mind. 72 00:05:18,320 --> 00:05:23,760 But if it becomes our focus, that's our choice. 73 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:29,360 What we choose to focus on is a decision that we make. 74 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:35,840 And sometimes I know unconsciously, subconsciously, we make that choice. 75 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:42,120 So we need to be, I think, more intentional this season of the year and the rest of the 76 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:52,680 year, all year, about what we choose to spend our energy on in focusing on what we choose 77 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:54,160 to focus on. 78 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:56,960 Yeah, say that three times fast. 79 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:57,960 Sorry. 80 00:05:57,960 --> 00:05:59,480 I hope that made sense. 81 00:05:59,480 --> 00:06:01,040 No, it actually did. 82 00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:08,200 But you know what, David, the really cool thing about all of this is as we start again, 83 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:12,880 restart this lesson today on premortal life, pre-existence, war and heaven, who we are, 84 00:06:12,880 --> 00:06:15,400 who's we are, all of that. 85 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:21,040 Understanding those things help us to position our focus in a way that's more positive and 86 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,680 can actually create that focus. 87 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:29,360 You said it, you know, sometimes subconsciously our focus begins and that's in large part due 88 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:31,600 to a lot of influences. 89 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:33,840 One is the natural man, for sure. 90 00:06:33,840 --> 00:06:35,600 We do have that to contend with. 91 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:39,680 But the other one has something to do with our habits. 92 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:45,480 If we are in the habit of focusing on negative, then our knee-jerk reactions are going to 93 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:47,480 be towards the negative. 94 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:51,800 We were just talking before we got started here today about a couple of people who are 95 00:06:51,800 --> 00:06:54,480 just always happy. 96 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,440 The gift of Deb, my wife, has the gift of happiness. 97 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:02,120 Now, she's not in a perfect mood all the time, you know, and she does feel the effects of 98 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:04,560 the fall emotionally and everything else. 99 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:06,680 But she really does have the gift of happiness. 100 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:10,320 Well, that gift of happiness has been cultivated by her. 101 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:11,520 I love that. 102 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:13,680 She has made the choice. 103 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:20,320 She has made the choice to cultivate and care for that spiritual gift that she has and to 104 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:21,320 make it grow. 105 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:22,320 She's not like that. 106 00:07:22,320 --> 00:07:23,600 You know, when you ask Shirley, how are you doing? 107 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:27,320 The first thing she'll always say, and regardless of how she's feeling or what's happening in 108 00:07:27,320 --> 00:07:31,960 her life, and she's getting along in yours and she's not perfect in her health by any 109 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,200 stretch of the imagination, but I can call her right now. 110 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:35,200 Shirley, how are you doing? 111 00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,320 Oh, Scott, I'm happy. 112 00:07:37,320 --> 00:07:38,920 That will be her response. 113 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,240 That's sweet. 114 00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:41,240 Yeah. 115 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:46,440 But it's easy to do that when we choose to focus our focus on, jeez, that one needful 116 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:47,440 thing. 117 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:48,440 We talked about that last week. 118 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:49,440 Yeah. 119 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:50,440 That one needful thing. 120 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:56,360 We need to focus, especially, you know, as we get closer to Christmas, he is the reason 121 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:58,120 for the season. 122 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:04,760 And if he is our focus during this holiday season, as we begin to get closer to it, really, 123 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:10,760 we can have, as President Nelson promised us, we can have joy if Jesus Christ is our 124 00:08:10,760 --> 00:08:15,000 focus in any circumstances. 125 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:20,400 Even he in his suffering, he did it for the joy. 126 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:22,520 Hebrews teaches, right? 127 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:23,760 So I don't know. 128 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:32,400 I just think that we have probably more, well, I know, I know I have more, I'll just speak 129 00:08:32,400 --> 00:08:33,400 to me. 130 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:40,920 I know I have more control over my focus than I think I do. 131 00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:46,200 I know I don't have perfect control over my thoughts, but I know I have more control 132 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,480 than I think I do over my focus. 133 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:55,360 And what you choose to focus on determines your choices, determines your decisions. 134 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:57,680 I just think it's really critical. 135 00:08:57,680 --> 00:09:08,880 So just a thought that hopefully we can choose where to spend or invest our energy, our mental 136 00:09:08,880 --> 00:09:14,680 capacities and cultivate some of those things in our life. 137 00:09:14,680 --> 00:09:21,400 Pre-mortal existence, Scott, is again one of my favorite topics, and it's become more 138 00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:28,440 so later in my life because of experiences I've had with individuals in my own family 139 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:36,320 giving patriarchal blessings than others with the reality of the pre-mortal existence. 140 00:09:36,320 --> 00:09:42,600 I've heard stories throughout my life of individuals who have had, you know, glimpses or who have 141 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:49,600 had experiences or, you know, spiritual experiences that have confirmed to them the reality of 142 00:09:49,600 --> 00:09:51,920 a pre-mortal existence. 143 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,440 And I believe them. 144 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:02,720 But until you kind of have some of your maybe own personal experiences with it, maybe it 145 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:08,320 doesn't seem quite as real as it could or should in our lives. 146 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:15,080 The prophets we established I think last week, the kind of the scriptural foundation. 147 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:22,240 We talked about the book of Abraham and Alma and doctrine, Covenants section 93 and we 148 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:24,840 could have used many other scriptures. 149 00:10:24,840 --> 00:10:29,720 But today I want to just talk maybe a little bit more about the some details about the 150 00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:38,680 pre-mortal existence and some experiences that I've had and maybe you've had that our 151 00:10:38,680 --> 00:10:43,800 listeners hopefully can relate to or be inspired by. 152 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:45,000 So let's just talk a little bit. 153 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,360 Let's begin by talking a little bit about the war in heaven and what we understand about 154 00:10:49,360 --> 00:10:50,360 the war in heaven. 155 00:10:50,360 --> 00:10:58,680 It was a crucial part and affected all of us in the pre-mortal existence. 156 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:07,040 I know that it has been taught and it sometimes still is that when we were in the council 157 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:15,680 of heaven that in Satan's rebellion that he proposed to force us to keep the commandments. 158 00:11:15,680 --> 00:11:21,560 I think that is that's been taught in the church and I don't think we have a perfect 159 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:28,280 understanding of the word heaven and I don't think it's necessarily wrong to say that. 160 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:35,920 But I think that there's a more universal proposal that he made that would destroy agency 161 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:38,840 then by just forcing us. 162 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:43,320 And it's one that I actually learned from brother Matthews Robert J. Matthews who wrote 163 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:48,120 the Bible dictionary and it's interesting that it's in the Bible dictionary and it continues 164 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:53,080 to be in the Bible dictionary in the latest edition of the Bible dictionary. 165 00:11:53,080 --> 00:12:02,960 So in the Bible dictionary on page 741 under the subtitle war in heaven the war was primarily 166 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:11,440 over how and in what manner the plan of salvation would be administered to the forthcoming human 167 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,200 family upon the earth. 168 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:22,000 The issues involved such things as agency how to gain salvation and who should be the 169 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,080 redeemer. 170 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:29,680 The war broke out because one third of the spirits refused to accept the appointment 171 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:33,920 of Jesus Christ as the savior. 172 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:39,720 Such a refusal was a rebellion against the father's plan of redemption. 173 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:44,600 Notice Scott that it says the father's plan of redemption. 174 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:53,320 I know that's been well emphasized over the last several years since Saturday's way or 175 00:12:53,320 --> 00:12:59,480 popular play and movie and you know idea came out and it looked like it was saviors. 176 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,640 The saviors plan it wasn't the saviors plan it wasn't the sons plan it's the father's 177 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:05,320 plan. 178 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:11,160 Everyone knew that Jesus Christ was chosen by the father to be our savior and redeemer 179 00:13:11,160 --> 00:13:16,360 and that that he would be the center of the plan of redemption. 180 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:22,640 And then Satan you know has this other plan and I don't respect him enough to even call 181 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:27,200 it a plan I think it's just an outright rebellion. 182 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:34,840 The Bible dictionary continues it was evident that if given agency some persons would fall 183 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,080 short of complete salvation. 184 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:47,480 Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come automatically to all who pass through 185 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:55,960 mortality without regard to individual preference agency or voluntary dedication. 186 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:03,480 One more time the sentence is key Lucifer and his followers wanted salvation to come 187 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:09,920 automatically that meaning we're not going to force you to do anything it's going to 188 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:18,200 come automatically it's going to come unconditionally to everyone who passes through mortality without 189 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:23,960 regard to individual preference agency or volunteer or voluntary dedication. 190 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:30,520 Well that that is no doubt the most universal effective way to destroy agency is to say 191 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:36,960 it doesn't matter what you choose it doesn't matter what you do go down there and do anything 192 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:45,760 you want party party on it doesn't matter there will be no accountability there will 193 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:54,640 be I will save you will all everyone universal this is the essence of universalism that everyone 194 00:14:54,640 --> 00:14:57,600 will be saved. 195 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:06,400 That was the false philosophy that other mccunkey teaches that this was a philosophy of Satan 196 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:15,120 and others his followers that was impossible what he couldn't pull it off because he wasn't 197 00:15:15,120 --> 00:15:20,000 going to overthrow God God was sovereign he's not going to overthrow God or God's laws but 198 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:25,720 in essence he that's what he was saying he was he was over he was seeking to overthrow 199 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:32,680 God by destroying law and accountability and if you do that Scott if there's no commandments 200 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:37,000 think about it if there's no commandments and there's no accountability and it doesn't 201 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:48,880 matter what I do you destroy agency agency is doesn't matter anymore it's gone so that 202 00:15:48,880 --> 00:15:56,560 I believe is what saint proposed and and to really to really believe that to really nail 203 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:03,560 that down look at the culture that we're living in right now I mean the war continues we're 204 00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:09,920 still in the war the prophets have taught that the war in heaven has been just transferred 205 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:18,440 from the premortal existence to this earth and here in mortality we see that alright 206 00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:26,040 so no doubt communism and other dictatorships force people and they destroy agency and I 207 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:31,800 actually believe Scott that when the rise of communism is where this teaching of forcing 208 00:16:31,800 --> 00:16:39,920 people that kind of became the model communism and and forcing governments that would force 209 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:45,640 other people I think that's where the whole idea that maybe that was part of the war in 210 00:16:45,640 --> 00:16:53,440 heaven and that Satan's plan or sorry Satan's rebellion was to force us and that's how he 211 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:59,640 was going to destroy agency as I've studied it as you go back and and there were some 212 00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:05,160 absolute comparisons made to communism and what happened in the war in heaven so I think 213 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:12,920 that's kind of where that is really emphasized that that the war in heaven was about force 214 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:22,720 and I believe that it is definitely more universal to do a more universal effort to destroy agency 215 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:30,360 a more effective way to destroy agency is by saying it doesn't matter go to the church 216 00:17:30,360 --> 00:17:35,720 of what's happening now just go down and do anything you want good bad evil it doesn't 217 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:44,320 matter I'll save you I'll get the credit that's what Satan proposed well we see here right 218 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:50,280 we see here in mortality that's pretty hard to say no to obviously right people are wow 219 00:17:50,280 --> 00:18:00,560 just pro-choice and I'm not I'm not saying that in terms of one one decision or choice 220 00:18:00,560 --> 00:18:05,560 in you know people here pro-choice saying anything of abortion I'm saying that his whole thing 221 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:15,680 was hey just go choose anything you want that's how you destroy agency is by destroying law 222 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:21,880 by destroying commandments and destroying accountability if there's no accountability then there's no 223 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:28,320 need for a savior there's no need for an entomment this gets back to the very center of the anti-christ 224 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:35,480 in the book of Mormon knee or in in Alma chapter one you know where he proposes hey we don't 225 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:42,680 need a savior well you don't need a redeemer because there is no sin core or there's no 226 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:51,240 crime there's no crime it's just dog eat dog survival of the fittest you know that's what 227 00:18:51,240 --> 00:18:59,240 was proposed in the pre-mortal existence so when you think about that and and that's 228 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:05,680 what I believe it really does affect how you see what's going on in this life and maybe 229 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:12,400 even in my own life and in your own life is that wow I need to be I need to be careful 230 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:18,720 I need to not just be drifting with the culture here I need to stand up I need to make some 231 00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:27,040 choices and decisions in my life because that's what decisions choices accountability to those 232 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:35,640 decisions and choices right and wrong things are not relative there is absolute truth and 233 00:19:35,640 --> 00:19:42,640 there's absolute right and wrong good and evil righteousness and wickedness but same 234 00:19:42,640 --> 00:19:48,240 proposed that there wouldn't be any of that they just do what you just do what you want 235 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:55,400 do what feels good and I'll save you no wonder one third followed him isn't that amazing 236 00:19:55,400 --> 00:20:00,560 that one third of the host brother Matthews used to always say that the reason he believes 237 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:06,320 that it wasn't about force because he says nobody likes to be forced to do anything he 238 00:20:06,320 --> 00:20:12,800 says I can't believe that a Satan would have said I am going to force you to keep the commandments 239 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:18,680 that no way would he have gotten one third to follow him but the reason he got so many 240 00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:26,000 to follow him the reason that was so attractive and popular was because they were worried 241 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:32,720 the one third that did end up following him they were they doubted their ability to either 242 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:40,360 choose the right or they didn't want to rely on a savior or redeemer they they felt like 243 00:20:40,360 --> 00:20:45,800 they could be totally independent do their own thing and it would free them up and they 244 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:54,960 would be free liberated no wonder one third of the host of heaven wanted to follow him 245 00:20:54,960 --> 00:21:02,720 and no wonder Scott there's so many we see in our culture throughout the world really 246 00:21:02,720 --> 00:21:08,280 no many no wonder so many here are attracted to that philosophy it's pretty attractive 247 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:14,080 yeah there's no doubt well and there's a couple of reasons for that I love some of the points 248 00:21:14,080 --> 00:21:17,520 that you made all of the points that you made but there's a few of the points that you made 249 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:25,600 I think that are especially poignant or relative to the things that we talk about in this podcast 250 00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:30,080 one of the one of the things that you said you know you bring up knee-hoor you know this 251 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:36,080 whole knee-hoor principle yeah I'll see it yeah the the the whole knee-hoor principle 252 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:40,080 you'll find that throughout the entire Book of Mormon you'll find it through other scripture 253 00:21:40,080 --> 00:21:45,200 you'll find it in our culture you'll find it in our in our own lives all around us even 254 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:49,760 within the church to a degree I mean you know it's a bit of a stretch but we can even find 255 00:21:49,760 --> 00:21:56,080 it there but the whole idea behind that is is you know everything's okay you're okay I'm okay 256 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:01,280 everything's just okay you're right yeah there's no big deals there's no problem with what you're 257 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:07,840 doing just go ahead whatever your thing whatever makes you feel good yeah right and I there's a 258 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:12,880 couple of things here you read from the Bible dictionary and just another part that I'm going 259 00:22:12,880 --> 00:22:18,080 to read here this is also under the war of heaven it says the warfare is continued in mortality 260 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:24,560 and the conflict between right and wrong between the gospel and the false principles etc the same 261 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:31,920 contestants and the same issues are doing battle and the same salvation is at stake yeah I love 262 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,960 that Scott thanks for reading it I think it's so cool how it's true how he puts that because it is 263 00:22:36,960 --> 00:22:42,880 true you know we talk about this war in heaven like it was and it was you know there we had some 264 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:49,440 some experience in it in a past part of our lives part of our spiritual existence right 265 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:56,000 but I think it that sometimes it's not as obvious or it's less likely for us to see or to think about 266 00:22:56,000 --> 00:23:01,680 that same thing going on here that same philosophical debate debate the knee-hoor principle in Alma one 267 00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:06,560 you know that I mean that was many many many centuries after the war in heaven and here we are 268 00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:13,120 many many many centuries after that and nothing's changed right so we have it right but so the but 269 00:23:13,120 --> 00:23:20,880 the point here is okay so this is great and this is important doctrine I can see that but how and 270 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:26,880 why does that help me with my relationship with the atonement of Jesus Christ and and I think that 271 00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,600 I can answer that in part and I want to hear what you have to say about it too but I one of the things 272 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:37,600 that I think about when I ask myself that question okay how does that relate to what's going on here 273 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:43,600 if I had that relationship there if I really knew him there and and that's what we're talking about 274 00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:52,080 here if we knew him we voted with our with our devotion with our with our commitment to him 275 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:58,000 to to follow his plan heavenly father's plan that would be carried out by the Savior well 276 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:04,480 well by knowing him and having had that experience and and we know we knew him and we know which way 277 00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:11,680 we fell on these issues that's evidenced by our being here in mortal form well here we are in 278 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:17,920 mortal form and if we can have and tap into those remembrances that memory of somehow 279 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:24,640 what it was like there why was it so important for me then and those things we'll pull forward 280 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:30,640 we'll be able to pull those spiritual memories those spiritual remembrances from that time Dave 281 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,200 you get the experiences probably more than most people in the church because of your experiences 282 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:41,600 with the patriarchal blessings but we can pull those experiences forward tap in again to who we 283 00:24:41,600 --> 00:24:47,440 really are and through that fill the relief from the effects of the fall of adam and eve through 284 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:54,560 Christ power as is afforded to us through his atonement yeah that's that's awesome Scott the the 285 00:24:54,560 --> 00:25:02,800 three a's and really are the center of this doctrine and and to really understand what happened 286 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:08,000 in the premortal existence and what the war in heaven was all about it was about the three a's 287 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:17,680 our agency accountability and atonement there was there was a years ago a great conference talk given 288 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:24,320 that was the title of the talk by elder boyd k packer there have been byu devotionals that have 289 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:29,120 used that title and i invite our listeners to look up all of them and read them and understand 290 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:38,560 that the war in heaven and the war that we fight now is really centered in those three a's agency 291 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:45,520 which is there is no agency if there's no accountability and accountability would never 292 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:53,520 matter if there were not an atonement of jesus christ that all three of those are dependent upon the 293 00:25:53,520 --> 00:26:00,400 upon the i mean those are the those are the essence those three a's make up the essence 294 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:11,600 of the of the father's plan of salvation and his plan of redemption that agency has to be honored 295 00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:19,280 it has to be protected at all cost we read we read the verse last the passage of scripture 296 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:26,560 in revelations 12 last week about the war in heaven just briefly and how we how we conquered satan 297 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:33,600 right and the three ways that we conquered him was through the blood of the lamb that the atonement 298 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:44,160 of jesus christ had power had effect on us even in the premortal existence we progressed there 299 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:52,800 there based not upon our own strength or genius but we progressed in the premortal existence 300 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:59,040 based on the atonement of jesus christ it was retroactive if the atonement of jesus christ 301 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:05,920 was retroactive to adam to alma to all of those before jesus even carried out the atonement 302 00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:13,360 then it's retroactive all the way back into our premortal existence and it is that's what we 303 00:27:13,360 --> 00:27:20,400 believe that the atonement of jesus christ had power and influence and strength in our life we 304 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:30,240 had faith in jesus christ god before we were ever born i always just get a little twinge when i hear 305 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,840 that in the premortal existence i actually taught this in the missionary discussions back in the 306 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:41,760 seventies the rainbow lessons we actually used to teach that we in the premore existence we walked 307 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:50,080 by sight but in this life we walk by faith well there's some truth to that but it's mostly wrong 308 00:27:51,440 --> 00:28:00,560 because we walked by faith we fought in faith our power and our strength even in the premortal 309 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:09,120 existence god was based on our faith in and our testimony of jesus christ our elder brother there 310 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:17,440 as our savior and redeemer this whole war was accomplished in the premortal existence by faith 311 00:28:17,440 --> 00:28:25,200 in jesus christ and it's how it will be conquered and how will overcome satan in this life but 312 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:34,000 back to revelation 12 verse 11 it says we overcame satan in the premortal existence by the blood of 313 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:42,880 the lamb second by the word of our testimony and third that we were willing to give our lives 314 00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:50,480 to our lives under the death that's how we overcame it there that's the only way we can overcome it 315 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:59,840 here so i i just think understanding the war in heaven and our role in that and how that has 316 00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:07,120 that has transferred to us here is just a really important part of our identity 317 00:29:08,480 --> 00:29:15,120 and who we are and scott once you know who you are i mean if we could get a glimpse of how 318 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:25,360 valiant we were in the war how how ferociously we fought in the war in heaven to defend jesus christ 319 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:32,720 as our savior and redeemer and the father's plan of salvation and redemption wow if you can get a 320 00:29:32,720 --> 00:29:44,320 glimpse of that it changes you and it changes you immediately and forever and i say what you want 321 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:49,840 before i share a story about that well i i was just going to say i know you have a 322 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:55,520 couple of stories about well sorry i'm talking well no no no that are going to help us with all of that 323 00:29:55,520 --> 00:30:02,960 but but david this is one of the things that you think about it you know if let's go back to 324 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:10,240 c.s. louis and warmwood and you know in the dead devil's uh understudies and so forth and if you 325 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:17,440 had an understudy and you were the devil um and and you were trying to thwart or throw barriers in 326 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:22,880 front of heavenly father's plan i believe this might be the first place you would start yeah i i think 327 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:29,920 if you could confuse us about who we are that would be all we would really really i that's 328 00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,160 probably all it would really need to be done really and then mission accomplished because that 329 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:39,440 it's that confusion around who we really are david that i in my opinion and and you know i have some 330 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:45,120 experience with this uh with my own life and with the lives of many many many many many others 331 00:30:45,120 --> 00:30:51,600 that i have an opportunity to be around and serve with and and serve uh but if but if we can forget 332 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:58,080 who we are if we can be confused about our spiritual identity we have such identity crisis in our 333 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:05,200 world today as it is around gender and so many other things right uh that that's just an expansion 334 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:13,200 of of what satan's trying to do if he can confuse us about who we are then he wins yeah absolutely 335 00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:22,480 scott absolutely and it just seems to me that uh in the premoral existence and in this life that he 336 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:31,760 he makes he really confuses the line between right and wrong yeah he almost has erased in our 337 00:31:31,760 --> 00:31:38,640 culture the line between good and evil and it it's a it's a fulfillment of isaias prophecy 338 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:44,640 that in the latter days that people would call evil good and good evil and there's just so much 339 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:52,880 confusion about that here in our world and that that is the war that's what the war in heaven was 340 00:31:52,880 --> 00:32:03,440 all about so i i've had um a couple of experiences with this as a as a patriarch you know really 341 00:32:03,440 --> 00:32:10,400 almost every sunday i haven't experienced with this to some degree or another in in bestowing 342 00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:17,760 patriarchal blessings upon individuals and and honestly with an eye of faith and and i take no 343 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:24,800 credit for this god i it's a it's a it's a gift from heavenly father it's not not from me none of 344 00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:30,240 these blessings come from me i know that i could give lots of examples and experiences i've had 345 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:37,600 that have taught me that some sometimes hard lessons to learn that i'm nobody but it's true 346 00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:46,640 acting as an instrument to be able to kind of see them the way god sees them many patriarchal 347 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:54,640 blessings talk about hell not just how chosen and elect they were in the premoral existence 348 00:32:54,640 --> 00:33:00,960 and how they were preserved to come forth in these latter days based upon their premoral existence 349 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:06,080 which is taught that we are added upon in this life depending upon what we did in the premoral 350 00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:12,880 existence and will be added upon in the next life depending upon how we live this life but 351 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:20,480 you know i've i've had a few times when you get a glimpse and you you see them in the premoral 352 00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:28,080 existence and it's over it's overcoming really it's it's uh so touching to be overcome by the 353 00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:35,200 spirit and to kind of see them and i had that experience it's been a few years ago now and 354 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:42,240 we've shared this in our previous seasons there was a there was a young woman who called me up and 355 00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:49,040 asked if she could set up a time to have a patriarchal blessing to receive a blessing 356 00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:55,520 and i could just kind of tell by her voice that she was a little bit older and i i always ask those 357 00:33:55,520 --> 00:34:02,400 who you know request a blessing a little bit about themselves so as i inquired about her she 358 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:09,040 told me that she had not been to church in 16 years that she had just recently started to go 359 00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:15,760 back to church and the reason she was going back to church was because she had an eight-year-old 360 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:21,520 daughter she had actually two children she told me she had two children she had never been married 361 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:29,520 and this eight-year-old daughter she wanted her to be baptized and so she'd start to go back to 362 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:35,520 church for her daughters this sunday in which she called me she called me on a sunday evening and 363 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:40,880 she said i went to church today and after sacramene the bishop came down to me and said he wanted to 364 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:45,840 talk to me in the office and we went in his office for a minute and we got acquainted he wanted to 365 00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:50,160 know a little bit about me and he he said i feel impressed to ask you do you have a patriarchal 366 00:34:50,160 --> 00:34:55,280 blessing and she said no and he said well i feel impressed you should get one so he gave me a 367 00:34:56,240 --> 00:35:04,560 recommend and wanted me to call you and set up a time so we set up a time and she came over a 368 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:12,480 few weeks later probably three weeks later and i remember opening the door and there's this beautiful 369 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:22,720 young woman 32 years old with with dreadlocks and tattoos piercings and you could tell that you 370 00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:31,600 know she'd had had a hard life we we welcomed her in we went in the office she she'd come alone and 371 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:39,680 we visited got got better-coined and i knew that the lord had a blessing for her and this was the 372 00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:46,880 day for her to receive it so after saying a little prayer i laid my hands on her head after i asked 373 00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:54,640 her to say a prayer and it was very sweet short prayer and then i laid my hands on her head and 374 00:35:54,640 --> 00:36:00,720 scott i was really overcome by the spirit of the lord and the love of her heavenly father for her 375 00:36:01,680 --> 00:36:14,800 and i i could see her as a as a young girl i could see the white dress she wore i mean this was i 376 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:22,000 don't again how literal this was i don't know whether in the body or out of the body is paul kind 377 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:34,480 of describes i don't know but i i could see her in in my mind's eye i could see her and uh i she 378 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:46,080 was just so fun so much energy so playful and then i got just a glimpse of her heavenly parents 379 00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:55,360 look watching her and smiling at her and i was trying to describe this in her blessing and i 380 00:36:55,360 --> 00:37:04,000 kept using the word delight how they delighted in her as their as their spirit spirit daughter 381 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:13,920 and uh anyway i'm trying to describe all this in a paragraph and then i knew there were two things 382 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:19,040 i had to say and i've never said i'd never said them before i've never said them a sense in any 383 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:25,120 blessing but i knew him this came from heavenly father and he knew she needed to hear this 384 00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:32,400 and i said your heavenly father wants you to know that you are one of his favorites 385 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:39,440 i remember when i said that sky thought no is that is is that really docturally accurate 386 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:50,160 it you know my my thoughts went is that doctrinal uh and i thought well we're all his favorites you 387 00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:58,000 know but she needs to know that she's one of his favorites that you know god loves us all 388 00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:04,560 i like what nief i said that he was highly favored he knew he was highly favored of the lord 389 00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:10,080 anyway i remember some of those thoughts going through my mind when i said that 390 00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:17,920 and uh so i said he wants you to know that you're one of his favorites and then this sentence and 391 00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:25,280 this really affected her and me i said and he wants you to know he's never been mad at you 392 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:39,920 well i remember her head falling into her lap and my hands were suspended in midair and i just 393 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:46,800 nothing was said we just there was a moment of silence and she wept for a moment and then she 394 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:54,000 she sat back up and continued to kind of cry and but in that in that moment when her head was in her 395 00:38:54,000 --> 00:39:05,200 lap and the the blessing had had this pause i remember thinking wow wow the love of god for his 396 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:12,880 children how he loved his children in the premortal existence how he loves them here i remember 397 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:19,120 thinking wow if he if he if he's never been mad at her he's never been mad at any of my kids 398 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:27,600 if he's never been mad at any of my kids he's never been mad at me if he's never been mad at me 399 00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:34,400 he's never i know he's never been mad at my wife i just remember thinking wow the love of god 400 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:44,480 it was it was quite a moment scott to feel that i know she felt that i i never i've always felt 401 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:49,920 bad after that blessing i never asked her if she sought to i kind of wondered if she had seen it 402 00:39:50,720 --> 00:40:02,160 but as i tried to describe that i know that the premortal existence became so real to me and i hope 403 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:12,320 that it has to her and i haven't seen her since but i know that that changed her life it will 404 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:21,440 change her life it has and it will and and and it has mine so i just i just want to testify to all 405 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:29,440 of our listeners that i know the premortal existence is real and that we are literal spirit sons and 406 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:37,680 daughters of heavenly parents and how pleased they were with us and how much they loved us and how 407 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:47,520 sad they were that one third i think about this sometimes when i think of the way we're children 408 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:55,360 who leave the teachings of their parents and who rebel and wander for a while think how hard it 409 00:40:55,360 --> 00:41:02,800 was for our heavenly parents to lose one third and scott not just to lose them for a little while 410 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:12,400 but for them to be so rebellious and really hateful towards their savior redeemer the 411 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:19,360 the firstborn son of our heavenly parents and he only begun in the flesh jesus christ 412 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:26,160 to be so hateful towards him and so rebellious towards their father that they would become 413 00:41:26,160 --> 00:41:34,800 known as perdition and choose to follow satan instead of following the father's plan i i think 414 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:42,080 about how hard that must have been for those heavenly parents so i just uh the premortal 415 00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:50,880 existences is is real to me and uh and i know that we existed before this life and i know that 416 00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:57,200 that how we lived there and the choices that we made there definitely have direct effect 417 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:06,400 not just on us having physical bodies here but what we are here to accomplish what we are here 418 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:15,040 to do and when one gets some sort of a glimpse or an idea or belief that they existed before 419 00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:20,480 this life and there's more to this life than just this life that their life here was influenced by 420 00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:26,400 their life before this life that they came here for a foreordained purpose or mission 421 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:35,760 that when people feel that believe it get a glimpse of it wow scott it changes it changes them 422 00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:41,760 forever it changes changes all their decisions and choices in their life after that i think one of 423 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:47,120 the biggest things i love so much about that story and i've heard that story several times now 424 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:53,600 uh about the patriarchal blessing and it changes i think this time one of the things that i love 425 00:42:53,600 --> 00:43:04,240 so much about that is heavenly father's never been mad at you i don't know um but i think i i 426 00:43:04,240 --> 00:43:12,240 i think i do know i think that if we have a real concept a real living concept of what it was like 427 00:43:12,240 --> 00:43:18,240 to be in a pre-mortal life with loving parents with a with a with a redeemer with a savior 428 00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:23,760 who would come down and satisfy the laws of justice in our behalf so that we could have free 429 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:31,040 agencies so that we could be like unto him unto them in all ways but especially and first in that 430 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:38,960 way i just heavenly father knew the end from the beginning he knew all the things that we would go 431 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:45,920 through it makes sense that he wouldn't be mad at any of us scott i've i've i've kind of made this 432 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,640 a study yeah you know in the old testament it talks a lot about his anger and his wrath right 433 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:56,320 then i've made a study this and i was so grateful that elder christopherson confirmed this because 434 00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:03,120 i'd come to the same conclusion that his anger and wrath as it's described is not an emotion 435 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:13,520 God has no wrathful emotion when he talks about his wrath that is not an emotion that he has 436 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:22,400 i mean i'm sure he could be but he is not he there's no contention their anger or wrath 437 00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:32,480 it is it describes his actions it describes his the consequences for breaking laws or commandments 438 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:39,520 it describes what he does scott not what he feels when you talk about the wrath of God 439 00:44:40,160 --> 00:44:48,160 you're talking about the outcomes or his actions wrath does not describe his emotions 440 00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:55,440 for his children yeah yeah and i i know i have felt like God's been angry with me i know the the 441 00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,640 students in our institute class that we see every wednesday night have expressed that to me i know my 442 00:45:00,640 --> 00:45:07,760 kids have felt that some still do i know members so i think this is a problem you know that we must 443 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:13,920 overcome and one of the great ways the best way i know to overcome this is through a relationship 444 00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:20,720 with our heavenly father the holy ghost jesus christ because of his atonement but again going back to 445 00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:27,360 an understanding who we were from the very beginning really kind of helps me to line that all out 446 00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:36,000 and true and understanding who god is yeah helps us to know who we are yeah and when you know when 447 00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:43,680 you know that god is a loving father yeah and that our relationship to him is child to father 448 00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:52,960 father to child right and that he is he's never going to to hate us he's never going to be mad 449 00:45:52,960 --> 00:46:00,080 at us now again there are laws and there will be consequences but there is accountability 450 00:46:00,720 --> 00:46:06,720 but the law but the consequences aren't because of god's anger towards us exactly the consequences 451 00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:13,920 are because of the the the law of justice and mercy yeah exactly so i think it's really just 452 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:20,960 critical that we see god for for who he is now i know he is a god of emotions i know he has emotions 453 00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:28,480 absolutely but his emotions are always appropriate and perfect and i know he cries i know he feels 454 00:46:28,480 --> 00:46:36,720 sorrow i know that he i i think angry is a word that can mean take on a lot of i know he feels 455 00:46:36,720 --> 00:46:43,520 he never feels contention i'm sure he feels disappointment i'm sure he feels a lot of the 456 00:46:43,520 --> 00:46:51,680 things that a loving parent watching their children struggle would feel but he also has 457 00:46:51,680 --> 00:46:59,680 the ability to see the end from the beginning and he sees the beginning and he remembers us 458 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:05,920 in ways that we can't necessarily remember because of the veil and it affects his feelings for us 459 00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:12,000 if we had that same blessing and benefit to get a glimpse there's a veil for a reason 460 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,320 and one of the other reasons there's a bell so that we won't be too accountable 461 00:47:17,680 --> 00:47:23,680 you know it's not just to test us that's one reason that there's a bell that we can be tested 462 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:31,600 but another reason is is that we he out of his love for us he doesn't want us to be overly accountable 463 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:38,000 to be able to see perfectly who we were there and what we were for today and do accomplish 464 00:47:38,000 --> 00:47:46,880 so i i just know that our belief what we believe what we choose to believe what we understand 465 00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:52,400 about the premoral existence scott it definitely affects our daily life here 466 00:47:54,960 --> 00:48:02,400 so another another experience scott that i've had that's personal with with me my family is 467 00:48:02,400 --> 00:48:14,400 uh with my with my son devin i know not not every person has this uh blessing and by the way i've 468 00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:20,560 given i don't know 300 and something patriarchal blessings and i haven't seen everyone in their 469 00:48:20,560 --> 00:48:25,680 premoral existence in detail the way i saw that that particular daughter of heavenly father 470 00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:32,320 but i i've got had a glimpse of a few and uh before i was ever a patriarch 471 00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:39,840 i was encouraging my son to get his patriarchal blessing he had uh in minnesota when we lived 472 00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:48,240 in minnesota for 14 years where he was basically raised uh as a child and teenager and had such 473 00:48:48,240 --> 00:48:57,120 great success as a basketball player and captain of his basketball team and and uh all city conference 474 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:03,600 this is a big deal some great basketball players in the minneapolis st paul metro area and he was 475 00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:09,280 all conference point guard and and went on played little college basketball became captain of his 476 00:49:09,280 --> 00:49:14,800 college basketball team he saw himself as a basketball player that was his identity scott 477 00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:21,680 and i had a hard time really to get him to be fully functionable uh he was always a great kid 478 00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,480 always a good kid i think he he tried really hard to live the standards and keep the commandments 479 00:49:26,480 --> 00:49:35,360 and he was such a respectful son to his parents earthly parents and and uh anyway lots of lots 480 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:40,880 of sweet things about him but he he just didn't feel really connected to the church or sees himself 481 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:48,240 so much as maybe a latter-day saint and uh it was while he was playing college basketball that i had 482 00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:54,480 that i had uh got up there for the weekend picked him up brought him home enjoyed a few days with 483 00:49:54,480 --> 00:50:00,720 him and then i was driving him back to his college dorms where he lived with basketball players and 484 00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:07,920 i was saying hey debon how you doing good son are you going to church once in a while he said i 485 00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:13,440 i'm going once in a while dad i'm going once in a while i said son are you still thinking about 486 00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:18,640 going on a mission because you know i that was a conversation we'd had throughout his teenage years 487 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:28,400 and this was a little bit heartbreaking he said to me dad i'm not a missionary and i'm never going 488 00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:38,400 to go on a mission and please don't bring up the m word again and uh wow that that was a little 489 00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:44,640 shocking surprising and a little hurtful and uh i think we wrote in silence for a while after that 490 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:53,120 and uh so i told my sweetheart when i got home and that night we prayed again that he might be 491 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:59,680 able to go on a mission uh we continued to pray for that and he had a non-member girlfriend and 492 00:50:59,680 --> 00:51:06,560 i was concerned about that and anyway he we got invited to move to utah i think the year after that 493 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:16,640 and he was kind of finishing up his college uh he was 22 years old at the time and i called him 494 00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:24,000 up one day and i said son we've been asked moved to utah then i hope that you'll come with us 495 00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:30,160 because i wasn't sure he would i thought maybe just stay in minnesota because his connections there 496 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:38,640 and uh i said i'm hoping that you'll come with us and uh he said dad i i actually think i need a 497 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:45,600 change i i'd like to do that and i'd like to maybe move out there before you move out there so i 498 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:50,640 think it was in april or may that i moved him out to before we didn't we didn't move till august i 499 00:51:50,640 --> 00:51:58,400 think i moved him out there in april to utah from minnesota to utah and uh he's he got introduced to 500 00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:04,400 a to a sweet girl a little lds girl and they started to date i know that he had kind of changed 501 00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:09,360 his cell phone number and had kind of broken things off with his girlfriend in minnesota and 502 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:17,680 and uh by the time we moved out to utah he he had he really liked this girl and they were really 503 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:25,760 close a few months after we had moved out there yeah they came to us in our home and i think it 504 00:52:25,760 --> 00:52:31,120 was october november and and they said hey we wanted you to be the first to know that uh 505 00:52:31,120 --> 00:52:38,640 we're gonna get married in the spring you know he's 22 she's 21 and i said wow that's great 506 00:52:38,640 --> 00:52:43,200 that's awesome congratulations and i asked in the temple 507 00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:51,520 and he said he he put up his hand but we're gonna work towards that dad we're gonna work 508 00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:58,720 towards that i said oh man that would be awesome debon debon before you get married get your patriarchal 509 00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:06,320 blessing please get your patriarchal blessing so about two weeks later after the big announcement 510 00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:12,080 uh i get a call from debon and i'm i'm actually driving home from work it's about six o'clock at 511 00:53:12,080 --> 00:53:19,920 night he says hey dad where's the patriarch live and i said hey son this is my favorite part of 512 00:53:19,920 --> 00:53:28,960 this story hey son you can't just show up bud you you got to see your bishop you got to get a recommend 513 00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:33,280 you got to be you got to be worthy it's something that you got to prepare for 514 00:53:33,280 --> 00:53:45,120 and there was maybe silence for a moment and he said hey dad i've seen my bishop i have a recommend 515 00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:52,320 i'm worthy enough i have an appointment at and seven o'clock tonight and i've been fasting all day 516 00:53:52,320 --> 00:54:04,560 will you just tell me where he lives oh man uh this is such a good boy but uh wow well he was 517 00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:15,440 22 dad i know i know that was bad dadmanship on my part hey you know anyway he was he had been 518 00:54:15,440 --> 00:54:22,000 fasting and praying all day he said and i said oh son that's so great and then i thought well 519 00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:28,320 we're gonna come right and so i said we're are we invited or mom and i invited no no if it's okay 520 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:34,640 dad i just want this to be between me and the patriarch and the lord and i said oh that's that 521 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:40,720 sweet son and then i thought all about britney's going and so i said is britney going because i 522 00:54:40,720 --> 00:54:47,760 in my mind you're thinking if she's going i'm going exactly yeah and he said actually actually 523 00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:54,000 no no dad she's not in fact i asked her if she'd come over to the house and visit with you guys 524 00:54:54,000 --> 00:54:58,480 while i get my blessing and so is that okay if she comes over to the house tonight while i get my 525 00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:06,080 blessing and i said sure son that's that's awesome uh that'll be great i have you all i'll see you 526 00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:14,320 after your blessing so anyway uh she came over to house about seven he went to get a his patriarchal 527 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:23,200 blessing uh from a wonderful staked patriarch and about eight o'clock he he drives up i remember him 528 00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:29,520 driving up and this is my favorite part of the story when he opens the door to come in the house 529 00:55:30,640 --> 00:55:36,960 he doesn't let go of the door knob he never let go of the door knob he opened the house 530 00:55:36,960 --> 00:55:45,520 or he opened the door into the house holding the door knob and with his left hand he waves to 531 00:55:45,520 --> 00:55:51,920 britney hey britney i gotta see you outside for a minute and he looks kind of white he kind of looks 532 00:55:51,920 --> 00:55:57,600 peeking like you know and i'm thinking oh no what happened you know i've been through quite a bit 533 00:55:57,600 --> 00:56:04,320 with him and i'm thinking oh is something wrong yeah and and uh she gets up kind of shrugs her 534 00:56:04,320 --> 00:56:10,640 shoulders and looks at us and walks outside and i'm thinking oh man what's what's going on so i ran 535 00:56:10,640 --> 00:56:16,720 upstairs to look out my bedroom window through the blinds of our bedroom window like any good yeah 536 00:56:16,720 --> 00:56:26,720 absolutely and uh i could see him leaning out on his car uh weeping she's wiping his tears and 537 00:56:26,720 --> 00:56:33,840 he's wiping hers and pretty soon they come to walk back into the house and i ran downstairs to 538 00:56:33,840 --> 00:56:40,480 sit back in the couch before they could so they made it look like nothing they're all calm and 539 00:56:40,480 --> 00:56:47,760 serene been sitting here the whole time guys and uh he says uh hey mom and dad we're gonna leave and 540 00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:54,880 i just wanted you to to know that we're taking off and i'll let you know uh i'll talk to you tomorrow 541 00:56:55,600 --> 00:57:00,400 oh man that was a long night i didn't i didn't sleep i actually heard him come home but i i wanted to 542 00:57:00,400 --> 00:57:06,240 honor what he had said and then he came home late that night i eventually got a few hours 543 00:57:06,240 --> 00:57:12,160 sleep but i i got up early like five o'clock because i knew he had to go to work really early 544 00:57:12,720 --> 00:57:19,760 and when he came up to the kitchen around six o'clock i said son please please can you tell me 545 00:57:19,760 --> 00:57:27,520 what happened and this is a boy scott i've never heard publicly bear his testimony he said to me 546 00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:34,960 dad i had a vision i said what what do you mean son what do you mean you had a vision 547 00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:43,040 and he said i i got a glimpse i got a glimpse of myself in the pre-mortal existence last night 548 00:57:43,040 --> 00:57:49,680 when the patriarch laid his hands on my head to give me my blessing i could see myself 549 00:57:49,680 --> 00:58:00,720 in the pre-mortal existence and this is a quote i was very influential in helping others follow 550 00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:10,480 jesus christ and not follow saint and then he said and dad if i did that there i have to do that here 551 00:58:10,480 --> 00:58:19,360 i'm gonna go on a mission and the engagements off wow scott i i was speechless i i didn't know 552 00:58:19,360 --> 00:58:27,840 what to say i it was such a tender sweet moment the spirit so strong and i knew that he'd had an 553 00:58:27,840 --> 00:58:37,840 experience something of an epiphany and he had he he knew who he was he knew his purpose and it 554 00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:46,960 changed immediately that this is what this was such a miracle because in one blinding moment 555 00:58:46,960 --> 00:58:55,840 his life immediately completely changed when he had that experience with the patriarch the night 556 00:58:55,840 --> 00:59:01,440 before i mean he opened the door and wouldn't let go of the door enough if that would have been me i 557 00:59:01,440 --> 00:59:05,760 think i might have come in and talked and wondered what to do about it all you know i maybe would 558 00:59:05,760 --> 00:59:10,880 have thought what am i going to do about this he knew immediately what he had to do about that 559 00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:17,520 and it completely changed the course and direction of his life and britney's and britney's and their 560 00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:24,080 families so he put two two weeks later he's put in his papers and a few weeks after that he gets his 561 00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:31,280 call then he's called to go to florida on his mission goes in the mtc on his 23rd birthday 562 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:39,520 the 23rd birthday he enters the mtc and it changed his life forever he was a 563 00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:48,480 a tremendous effective missionary and i'm happy to say that britney waited she had her own experiences 564 00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:56,960 and she and she waited thankfully and they were married in the temple three weeks after he got home 565 00:59:57,840 --> 01:00:04,960 they were married in the temple and have four beautiful children you know honestly the the 566 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:13,600 observing that and the lesson that i've learned scott from that experience and patriarchal blessings 567 01:00:14,320 --> 01:00:20,400 is that once we know and i invite all of our listeners to restudy their patriarchal blessings 568 01:00:20,400 --> 01:00:25,040 and maybe maybe maybe their premortal existence isn't really mentioned in their their patriarchal 569 01:00:25,040 --> 01:00:30,640 blessing but if they read it in faith if they really kind of read between the lines i think 570 01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:36,960 they can get a glimpse to see themselves the way god sees them and to kind of know they'll get a 571 01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:48,400 better idea of who they are uh and once we do that once we see that with an eye of faith then it's in 572 01:00:48,400 --> 01:01:02,160 our hearts scott it changes us forever so i just invite our listeners to kind of re-examine their 573 01:01:02,160 --> 01:01:11,440 patriarchal blessings to study them to ponder who they are their their gifts that they need to cultivate 574 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:20,640 uh their talents that they brought with them here from the premortal existence their purpose and 575 01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:30,560 and who they are and once they know who they are um their lives will be forever changed and uh 576 01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:41,760 blessed and uh i just bear witness of the truth of those experiences and and those truths scott so 577 01:01:42,880 --> 01:01:51,040 thank you the uh the the whole thing that i love the most about the story about the young lady who 578 01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:56,080 was one of heavenly father's favorites and the story about and and this story is not just devin's 579 01:01:56,080 --> 01:02:01,840 story this is devin and britney's story this last story really right because because of their eternal 580 01:02:01,840 --> 01:02:10,160 union and and all of that now the the cool thing about all of this is is these these experiences 581 01:02:10,160 --> 01:02:15,680 or some like it that heavenly father has in store for us heavenly father wants us to all all to know 582 01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:23,760 these things he wants me to know from whence i come right he he wants me to know of my spiritual 583 01:02:23,760 --> 01:02:29,840 dna right and he wants all of us to know that he wants all of us to know that because knowing who 584 01:02:29,840 --> 01:02:36,720 we are when life does throw things at us which it will if we can go back so for throughout devin's 585 01:02:36,720 --> 01:02:43,760 life he will be able to go back if he chooses and tap into that same night that he and britney held 586 01:02:43,760 --> 01:02:48,320 each other leaning against his car wiping tears from each other because of one of the most poignant 587 01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:55,200 experiences that was life changing for them we all have that we all have that ability we all 588 01:02:55,200 --> 01:03:00,960 have the promise from heavenly father that he will help us to know who we are so that we can 589 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:07,200 through that memory through that remember ring also remember his son yeah brothers and sisters it 590 01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:15,360 is only through the effects of jesus christ through his atonement that we have the ability to overcome 591 01:03:15,360 --> 01:03:20,480 any and all of the effects of the fall of adam and eve which is mortality and we're talking 592 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:28,080 about mortality today and it is only it is only through his atonement that we overcame satan in 593 01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:34,800 the premortal existence yep and it's because of that we did that there we have to do that here 594 01:03:34,800 --> 01:03:39,120 that's right and it's through the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimonies and 595 01:03:39,120 --> 01:03:45,840 and loving not our license to us and to the death to the death that we will overcome satan and his 596 01:03:45,840 --> 01:03:52,960 followers here may god bless us so to do throughout this week is our prayer and we pray that for each 597 01:03:52,960 --> 01:03:59,680 and every one of us gang don't don't hesitate to send us your questions he redeems us at gmail.com 598 01:03:59,680 --> 01:04:04,800 god be with you all until we meet again we look forward to being with you again next week until 599 01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:20,720 then be well