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Hey, good morning everybody. Welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.

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Scott Durfey here joined us always by David Durfey. What's up Dave?

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I'm a little melancholy.

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Why?

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Oh, Scott. You know, life, life is, is good, but it seems to, it seems to speed up the

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older you get. I, my grandson enters the MTC today.

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Oh.

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And I was just thinking on the way over today that, wow, wow, our third grandchild going

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on a mission. And it just seems like, and I'm thinking about, you know, pretty soon.

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Uh-huh.

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Well, you know, it's one thing, you're raising your children, you're in the middle of it,

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you think it's never going to end. And then, then all of a sudden one starts to leave and

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before you blink, they're all gone. And then you start having grandchildren, you have those

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great, great events, family events, you know, spaced out during the month or the year or

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whatever. And you, you cherish that. And then your grandchildren start to leave on missions

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or get married. And then all of a sudden you, you, I mean, what's, what's the, we know

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what an empty nester is, right? When they lose their children. But what do we, what

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do we call those people who lose their grandchildren?

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Well, first off, let's rephrase that. You're not losing them. Okay. And second off, you're

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not being put out to pasture as a grandpa or anything like that.

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It just feels like, you know, so yeah, I'm sure.

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It's never the same.

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No, I know, I know.

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It's never the same.

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I know. And it's, there's some, there's some deep irony in all of that because, you know,

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remember back to when you were a young father and you had young children, I'm doing the

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same as I'm asking you to, but remember back to those days, sometimes those days felt like

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months.

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I know.

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And then sometimes those years felt like days. And that's kind of,

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You look backward and it's like, where did all that time go?

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I know. I know. I always say that my children's childhood was one of the most wonderful weeks

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of my life.

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Because it just seems to.

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That's the way it looks when you look backwards.

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Hey, but I did see some great news. Your granddaughter got to experience who's on a

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mission.

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Yeah.

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Got to experience somebody entering the waters of baptism.

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She I think she even put on a post.

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I got to be with so and so as so and so took made their first covenants.

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She's having an amazing mission.

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I am so happy for her.

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Why wouldn't she?

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She's an amazing.

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She's an amazing person.

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And she's so positive and so happy. And this last week, she found 12 new people to teach.

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She said in 24 hours.

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So I don't know what 24 hours means. If she was looking in the middle of the night for

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them or I don't include sleeping hours or if that includes days of work, but I don't

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care how you measure that.

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That's pretty remarkable.

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That's pretty, that's, you know, and that's that's up by the harmony Pennsylvania.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And she's staying in little, little town there.

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Susquehanna.

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In fact, the pictures that she took were apparently on the river.

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Yeah.

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She goes to church.

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Yeah.

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Where the church history site is Susquehanna River site.

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Did we go there?

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We did.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I thought so.

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Yeah.

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Those pictures.

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Yeah, we went there.

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Remember the Susquehanna River?

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Oh, yes, I do.

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Of course.

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That was one of my most most wonderful experiences of my life was standing there.

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It's one of my favorite.

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You know, what had happened was here we go down a rabbit hole, but what had happened

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was is just prior to that, only weeks prior to that, I'd been set apart as our elders

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corn president.

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So when we stood there on that river, the weight and it wasn't a heavy weight, but

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there's just the enormity of the blessings and the beauty that comes from the power of

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the priesthood.

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I for some reason just being there, it just brought all that to me.

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Anyway, yeah, that was that was sweet.

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I still remember that.

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I it's always fun to take people there and to give them give them a half hour of just

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quiet time to walk up and down the river or set by the river and ponder the power and

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blessings of the priesthood in their life.

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Yeah, that was wonderful.

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Anyway, she's doing great.

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And so I'm just a little melancholy because, you know, my grandchildren are leaving us

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when they come home.

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It's awesome when they come home.

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But it's different.

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But it's different.

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Yeah.

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It's never quite the same.

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And I've I've been thinking about that on the way over here today, thinking, you know,

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not only how can I be a better granddad, but how could I have been a better granddad?

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Isn't that kind of human nature?

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It is for us.

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I know that.

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It seems like, you know, I mean, I've been a fine.

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I've been a good granddad.

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You've been a great granddad.

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I'll say.

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And yet and yet whenever you start going through these melancholy moments or experiences,

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you know, where where there's change, you always you always think, you know, how could

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I have been better?

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Yeah.

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And I don't think that's bad.

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You know, I think, you know, Paul invites us in the New Testament.

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I love it where he invites us to examine yourselves.

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That's good to examine yourselves.

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It's good to kind of review.

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And so when I say I could have been better.

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I'm not beating myself up.

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I think that's the difference.

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Yeah.

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You're just acknowledging the well, you know, I guess I'm acknowledged my humanness, which

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is the obvious, right?

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We all could have done better.

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We can always in almost everything that we've done, we could have done better.

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The point is though is and we'll get back to this as we go through the podcast, you

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know, especially when it comes to things that matter like being a dad, being a granddad,

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being a husband, all of those things, you know, it's our job to do the best we can.

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And where we can't, that's where the compensatory enabling and redeeming blessings of Christ

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at home come and kind of make up the difference, right?

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There's no such thing as a perfect person.

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Nope.

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There's no such thing as a perfect dad.

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There's no such thing as a perfect husband.

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Nope.

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There's no such thing as a perfect granddad.

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My wife can attest to that.

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There's no such thing as a perfect husband.

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Anyway, but today, yeah, well, I just want to say this to what part of the reason you're

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melancholy and this is true with Dave because I've had kind of a pretty close view to this.

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Your buddies with him, you guys are friends.

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You have the ability, David, to be good friends with your grandkids like your dad did.

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Your dad was that to me, you know?

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Yeah, I can see that, Scott.

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And that's important.

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And you know, that kind of that bond, that buddiness bond, if you want to call it that

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or whatever.

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It's true.

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And he, his middle name is my name.

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Oh, it is.

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I didn't know that.

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Okay.

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Grandson.

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Yeah, I have a good name.

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One of them.

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And so, you know, I, that doesn't, that doesn't mean I love him anymore, but it just means

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he has my name.

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And there's something about that, Scott.

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We probably should remember that when we get into what it means to take upon ourselves

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the name of Jesus Christ.

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Because when you, when you share your name with someone or somebody shares your name

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and they have been given your name out of respect, you know, it, there's something about

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that relationship.

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Yeah, there is.

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So anyway, I have a, I have a two year old grandson who is a Scott Durfey.

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Yeah, I do.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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He's two.

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And yeah, he's, he's, he's kind of my namesake.

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That's for sure.

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My wife calls me Wreck-It Ralph because I'm not super careful with stuff.

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Yeah.

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And I don't know if there's even that on steroids.

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So yeah, it's kind of fun.

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Anyway, let's get to the podcast.

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All right.

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So we're really starting the course today.

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I mean, everything else we've done has kind of been introductory.

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And so now we really start the course.

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And when we talk about redemption, we have to talk about the plan of salvation.

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And I think most people, when they think of that term plan of salvation, they immediately

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think of premortal existence, mortality and postmortal existence.

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Right.

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You know, where did we come from?

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You know, why are we here?

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And where are we going?

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And where are we going?

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And and I included that.

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And who are we?

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Right.

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So we're going to, we're going to start there with talking about the plan of salvation and

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especially the today.

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And we'll see where we go and maybe even next time to some degree, talk about the premortal

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existence because I think Scott, it's one of the most precious truths of the restoration

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of the gospel of Jesus Christ.

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There's evidence that the early Christian fathers believed in it.

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Well, we know that Jesus Christ and the apostles taught it, that they made reference to it.

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We have scriptures on it that we treasure and know our sacred and true.

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But even even some of the early Christian fathers and bishops of the of early Christianity

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believed in a premortal existence.

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But through the apostasy, after after only three or four hundred years, that truth was

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lost was taken out.

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So I think it's really one of the great doctrinal nuggets of the restoration.

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So and I believe the reason it's so important, we maybe should state this right off the bat.

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I think the reason it's so important is because when you know who you are and when you really

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believe that you have spiritual DNA of a God, when you understand what the soul is, the

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soul, when we say soul, it means something totally different than what other Christians

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or other religions define as a soul.

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We believe that man is spirit.

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I mean, that's doctrine come in section 93.

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Man is spirit, that we were before even a spirit, we were an intelligence and that we were created

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somehow or organized as a spirit from an intelligence by heavenly parents.

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And it took a mom and it took a dad to create our spirit.

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And that through this creation, and I don't know, Scott, I know we don't know all the

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details, but I just think that's significant.

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When I just said it takes a mom and it takes a dad to create a spirit from an intelligence.

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And nothing more has been revealed to us before being an intelligence or really what an intelligence

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was or what state of existence we were in as an intelligence.

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But we know we were created an offspring of God.

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Those are Paul's words in the Bible, right?

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That's Acts 17, that we are the offspring of God, which means an offspring of heavenly

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father and heavenly mother and knowing that truth, believing that not just not just knowing

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it but really believing it and allowing that to affect our relationship with them.

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It should inspire us, Scott, to do better and to want to be more.

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This is something that kind of makes our restored gospel a little different.

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There's a differentiator there.

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If you think about how all of this came about, we have Satan, we're going to talk about how

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a third of the hosts of heaven were eliminated from the opportunity by their own choice,

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eliminated from the opportunity to come here.

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It seems like if that was your goal was to throw down or to get rid of all of heavenly

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fathers' teachings and important principles that would help us draw back to him, that

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would be maybe one of the first things that you would want to erase.

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It would be the existence of our spirits in a spirit world living with heavenly parents

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in a pre-existence.

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If he can erase all that, then that begins, that's the very beginning.

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They were just animals.

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Exactly.

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Pre-existence and creation was the father to the fall.

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The fall was the father to the Atonement of Jesus Christ.

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The Atonement of Jesus Christ is what allows us to go back.

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If you can just mess it up from the very beginning, and I think that that's part of the problem.

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If you're Satan, you sure don't want people to know about how they participated in a grand

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council of heaven and how they overthrew him and defeated him in a war in heaven.

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We've said that today's lesson, I think it's important for two major reasons.

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Number one, to know who you are, knowing who you are, the offspring of heavenly parents

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should inspire us, should help us, should strengthen us.

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Second, which we'll discuss today, is understanding to a greater degree the council in heaven

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and the war in heaven, and understanding those events that happen in the pre-mortal existence

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to the best degree that we can.

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We'll tell us a lot about what we are experiencing here in mortality.

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If we really understand the council in heaven and how we honored agency and how God especially

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honored agency, and then we understand the war in heaven, which was all about trying

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to destroy that agency, it will really help us and strengthen us here in mortality.

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Because what we see, really the essence of what's going on here in mortality right now,

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and it seems to be accelerating, and it seems to me to be becoming even more obvious, that

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it's all about overcoming others and taking away their agency.

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Whether that's through, whether that's Satan's effort in causing addictions, all the addictions

255
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that destroy agency, whether that's in war, whether that's in force, or however that may

256
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take place, it's pretty obvious that Satan wants to own us and destroy us by taking away

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agency.

258
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Yeah.

259
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Well, and there's that, you know, I think he wants to own us, and I think he wants to

260
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destroy us to take away agency.

261
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But I also think that there's a lot of this that has to do with his, I don't know how

262
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to put it, his way of snubbing, I don't know the better word, you know, snubbing God,

263
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you know, making it to...

264
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Well, ultimately he would like to destroy God's plan.

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That's what I mean by this, you know.

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And so I think that it's really his way of saying, okay, God, you didn't let me have

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it my way, I'll show you, you know, that kind of thing.

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And you know, and I'm with you.

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You know, I think that there's been a great acceleration, and maybe it's just because

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we become, as you mentioned earlier, as we become older, maybe we just become more sensitive

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to these things.

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But I don't think so.

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I think that we can take a metric look at what's happening in our society today, and

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we can take a look at the faith challenges that we're seeing among people in our own

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faith.

276
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Yeah, true.

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And you see sin taking on new flavors and new appeals and new, you know, enormous type

278
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of attractions that to people that maybe weren't quite as susceptible to that before in the

279
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past.

280
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But now we're seeing it more.

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Denying the truth that man is spirit, that ultimately Scott, it really comes down to

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that.

283
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Man is spirit.

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Man, woman, we are all spirit.

285
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That the soul of man includes a spirit.

286
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That's right.

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That's what we created from heavenly parents.

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Denying that truth really opens us up to all of the power of the world and the worldliness

289
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and temptations of the world.

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00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:45,600
I mean, I was driving over here today thinking a little bit about this, and the song that

291
00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:49,120
came on the radio was material girl.

292
00:16:49,120 --> 00:16:50,400
What?

293
00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:52,680
I am a material girl.

294
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And I yelled at the radio.

295
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:58,520
You are spiritual.

296
00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:00,760
You're a spiritual girl.

297
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:02,720
You are not material.

298
00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:10,160
Anyway, you know, I mean, what's the philosophy of the world is that we're just a potassium

299
00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:20,760
and some salt, water and flesh and that we have evolved from a lower form of life.

300
00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:27,400
And when we die, it's over or anyway, man is spirit, Scott.

301
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,680
So let's just maybe we should start with that scripture.

302
00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:32,320
That's in doctrine comes section 93.

303
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:39,640
And I just, I mean, I think that, you know, when this revelation was received back in

304
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:46,280
1833, I think it must have been mind blowing to some people because they didn't have any

305
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,000
concept of this in 1833.

306
00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:55,200
And verse 36, the glory of God is intelligence, or in other words, light and truth, light

307
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:59,160
and truth forsake that evil one.

308
00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:04,680
Every spirit of man was innocent in the beginning.

309
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And God having redeemed man from the fall, man became again in their infant state innocent

310
00:18:11,240 --> 00:18:12,840
before God.

311
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:17,840
And then if I go just back to verse 32, and every man whose spirit receive with not the

312
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:26,480
light is under condemnation, for man is spirit, the elements are eternal and spirit and element

313
00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:32,120
in separately connected receive a fullness of joy.

314
00:18:32,120 --> 00:18:38,080
That that's just is a revelatory.

315
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:39,520
I don't know a better word.

316
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:46,000
That was just that was a revelation that I'm sure many people had no concept of then and

317
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,920
so much of the world has no concept of it today.

318
00:18:50,920 --> 00:18:52,000
Man is spirit.

319
00:18:52,000 --> 00:19:00,600
So if we if we believe that, and because of the restoration, we have some idea of what

320
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:07,400
we did as spirits, who we were as spirits, what happened when we were spirits in a premortal

321
00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:10,200
world or premortal existence.

322
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:16,640
You know, I wish we had maybe a better title than that, we could describe that state or

323
00:19:16,640 --> 00:19:21,360
that place where we lived before we before we came here.

324
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:28,440
But Abraham, let's go to maybe Abraham Scott chapter three.

325
00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:31,680
People will remember this from their seminary days.

326
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,560
It's always been a scripture mastery scripture.

327
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:42,400
Now, Lord, it's short of me, Abraham, the intelligences that were organized before the world was so

328
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,400
intelligence organized.

329
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:49,240
That's that's the term he uses that we were and that would make us a spirit and an organized

330
00:19:49,240 --> 00:19:51,400
intelligence is a spirit.

331
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:58,440
So he sees in his spirits and he describes him as intelligences that were organized before

332
00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:00,280
the world was.

333
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:06,640
And among all these, there were many of the noble and great ones.

334
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:17,520
Now I know that we think we think of prophets and apostles and and sisters, amazing sisters

335
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:19,440
of the restoration.

336
00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:21,520
We think of all of those individuals.

337
00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:29,200
But Scott, I've given enough patriarchal blessings to know that most individuals who overcame

338
00:20:29,200 --> 00:20:34,600
Satan in the war in heaven were pretty noble and pretty great.

339
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:39,480
And the youth that are coming down to the earth today were definitely among the noble

340
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,120
and the great ones.

341
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,380
I know that's true.

342
00:20:44,380 --> 00:20:48,720
That has come to me so many times in giving patriarchal blessings.

343
00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:54,360
Verse 23 of Abraham three and God saw these souls that they were good and he stood in

344
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:59,160
the midst of them and he said, these I'll make my rulers for he stood among those that

345
00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,960
were spirits.

346
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,260
Man is spirits, Scott.

347
00:21:03,260 --> 00:21:08,240
They were spirits and he saw that they were good and he said unto me, Abraham, thou art

348
00:21:08,240 --> 00:21:09,240
one of them.

349
00:21:09,240 --> 00:21:13,040
Thou was chosen before thou was born.

350
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:18,600
Now we learned that in the Bible with Jeremiah that before I formed the in the belly, I knew

351
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:19,600
thee, right?

352
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:21,640
That's right in Jeremiah one.

353
00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:26,440
But here it is again, this idea, this doctrine of four ordination.

354
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:30,960
Now that just that in and of itself, forget the premortal existence for a minute.

355
00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:40,840
The doctrine of four ordinations, Scott, can be a powerful motivator to change us as individuals

356
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:48,840
to believe that we were four ordained to do important things that we were chosen before

357
00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:54,520
we were born before the world was created before as the scriptures often uses the term

358
00:21:54,520 --> 00:22:01,840
in describing Jesus and others that before the foundation of the world or before the

359
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:09,480
foundation of the earth that people were chosen, that there was a plan that we were four ordained.

360
00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:14,120
We'll look in another scripture on that in Alma.

361
00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:20,600
And then he goes on to describe that those who keep their first estate and our first

362
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:24,920
estate would be our premortal existence, that's in verse 26, that they who keep their first

363
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:29,360
estate shall be added upon and they who keep not their first estate shall not have glory

364
00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:33,720
in the same kingdom with those who kept their first estate and they who keep their second

365
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,120
estate shall have glory added upon their heads forever and ever.

366
00:22:37,120 --> 00:22:40,520
So we often think of the premortal existence.

367
00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:48,560
Here's another title for you as our first estate or as Alma calls it in Alma chapter

368
00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,640
13 in the first place.

369
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:59,080
The first place would have been our premortal existence where we existed as spirits.

370
00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:07,720
We know that in the premortal existence or first estate that there was a plan presented

371
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,040
to us.

372
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:16,000
We don't know a lot of details about the Grand Council in heaven, but that there was a plan

373
00:23:16,000 --> 00:23:23,960
presented to us and that Satan volunteered to do the plan and he would get all the credit.

374
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:31,400
He says, we won't read all those scriptures, those are in Moses, that he would take the

375
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:37,000
credit and that people would give him the glory.

376
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:38,280
Even God would give him the glory.

377
00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:42,760
It was obvious that it wasn't so much a plan as God as it was a rebellion.

378
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:48,160
I don't think Satan had, I don't even want to give him the respect, call it a plan.

379
00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:50,880
It was just flat out wicked rebellion.

380
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:58,680
It was war and Heavenly Father had already decided before Satan ever came into the picture

381
00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:06,280
that his firstborn son as a spirit, that our elder brother Jesus Christ would be the savior

382
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:08,440
and the redeemer of the plan.

383
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:13,520
It was the Father's plan and he had chosen Jesus Christ to fulfill that plan.

384
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:20,320
Jesus humbly in the middle of this rebellion or this war says, you know, I will go and

385
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:24,680
I will be thy son and I will do thy will.

386
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:31,480
And it's just totally different attitude between those two.

387
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:35,560
I think we give maybe Satan just my personal opinion.

388
00:24:35,560 --> 00:24:41,880
I don't like giving him a lot of credit or even saying that he was some mighty spirit

389
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:43,640
in the premortal existence.

390
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,280
I think he was extremely charismatic.

391
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:49,320
I think he was extremely influential.

392
00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:59,200
But I don't, I don't, it says that he was one who was in authority, but not, I don't,

393
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:01,320
I don't think he was second to Jesus.

394
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:05,840
I don't think he was one of those mighty ones really.

395
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:08,080
I don't, I don't believe that Scott.

396
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:14,960
Now I know he was powerful and he continues to be and I know that he's effective in what

397
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:15,960
he does.

398
00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:16,960
Right.

399
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:20,920
Now I know he has, this is not a compliment.

400
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,480
I know he has great talent to be wicked.

401
00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:32,040
But his pride, Joseph Smith said that he, that he fell because he sought, sought excellence.

402
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,440
He sought to be in charge.

403
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,880
He sought to be the one who would get all the glory, all the credit.

404
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:45,040
And the son on the other hand was all the credit will be thine.

405
00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:46,600
Thy will be done.

406
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:48,360
I will go father.

407
00:25:48,360 --> 00:25:53,240
And it was totally out of humility and love, not just love for the father, but love for

408
00:25:53,240 --> 00:25:59,040
all of those younger, younger siblings as spirits in the pre-mortal existence that Jesus

409
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:06,960
had acquired and that he was foreordained before the foundation of the world, before

410
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:08,840
even Satan rebelled.

411
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:15,120
Jesus was foreordained and Satan probably knew it, but this was Satan's effort to overthrow

412
00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:16,880
it.

413
00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:19,080
So let's see.

414
00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:23,200
Let's should we look at, let's look at, let's look at Alma chapter 14.

415
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,440
All right, I've got it right here.

416
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,440
Do you have it?

417
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:27,440
14 or 13?

418
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:28,440
13.

419
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:29,440
Yeah.

420
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:30,440
Yeah.

421
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:31,440
Yeah.

422
00:26:31,440 --> 00:26:32,640
So I'm going to start in verse two.

423
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:34,000
Yeah, perfect.

424
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:40,520
And those priests, so Alma 13 verse two beginning in verse two, and those priests were ordained

425
00:26:40,520 --> 00:26:46,280
after the order of his son in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner

426
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:50,080
to look forward to his son for redemption.

427
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:55,640
In that verse alone, there is so much hopeful doctrine given to us.

428
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,480
Well, think about that as an Elder's Court President.

429
00:26:58,480 --> 00:26:59,720
What's my purpose in Elder's Court President?

430
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:02,280
To help people look towards Christ.

431
00:27:02,280 --> 00:27:03,280
For redemption.

432
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:04,280
Period.

433
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:05,280
That's it.

434
00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:06,280
Honestly.

435
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,040
And it's not just as an Elder's Court President, it's as a Sunday school teacher, it's as

436
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:11,800
a primary president, which Deb is.

437
00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:12,800
What about a dad?

438
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:13,800
Or a dad?

439
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:14,800
Granddad.

440
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:15,800
Oh my goodness.

441
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,720
Mom, grandma, brother, friend, sister, friend, neighbor.

442
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:19,720
What should be our purpose?

443
00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:24,560
Yeah, to help others to look towards Christ for redemption, right?

444
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:30,320
And everything else, you know, so we had a discussion in Sunday school this past week.

445
00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,960
And the discussion was how do we help our children and grandchildren develop a greater

446
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,160
relationship with Jesus Christ?

447
00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:40,240
And it's interesting to me, and I don't want to get into any details around this, but it's

448
00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:45,640
interesting to me how when we talk about sometimes just because of the way we're programmed,

449
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:49,600
when we talk about how do we have a deeper or better relationship with Jesus Christ,

450
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,960
we immediately go to the stuff we can do.

451
00:27:52,960 --> 00:27:53,960
We immediately go to.

452
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:54,960
Well that we're good at.

453
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:55,960
How?

454
00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:57,920
Yeah, or that we're good at.

455
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,760
Probably more emphasis there, you know.

456
00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:04,160
But you know, is my hair length exactly right?

457
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:12,640
Am I going to the temple with, I hesitate to get into any examples.

458
00:28:12,640 --> 00:28:13,640
No, I am not.

459
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:14,640
But you know what I mean, right?

460
00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:19,400
I mean, when we focus on paying the tithing, which is important and I don't ever want to

461
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,000
be quoted or misconstrued as saying, Scott said, that's not important.

462
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:24,000
It is important.

463
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:25,760
It's extremely important.

464
00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:27,320
All of that's important.

465
00:28:27,320 --> 00:28:32,680
But when we when we don't focus directly on that establishing that relationship or looking

466
00:28:32,680 --> 00:28:35,960
to him on to him, we have redemption.

467
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:36,960
Then we're missing the mark.

468
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:38,400
That is exactly right.

469
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,280
One needful thing.

470
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:41,280
That's it.

471
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:42,280
One.

472
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:48,000
Now, to get to that one, to get to that one, there's some qualification and there's some

473
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,560
things that need to happen in our life.

474
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:52,080
But it's just by way of alignment.

475
00:28:52,080 --> 00:28:53,080
We'll get there.

476
00:28:53,080 --> 00:28:54,080
I'm going to start over.

477
00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,160
And those priests, this is verse 2 and Alma 13, and those priests were ordained after

478
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:03,240
the order of his son in a manner that thereby the people might know in what manner to look

479
00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:05,800
forward to his son for redemption.

480
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:07,440
Oh, I love that.

481
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:12,960
And this is the manner after which they were ordained, being called and prepared from the

482
00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:19,520
foundation of the world according to the foreknowledge of God on account of their exceeding faith

483
00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:25,440
and good works in the first place or in the first estate in the first place being left

484
00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,120
to choose good or evil.

485
00:29:28,120 --> 00:29:37,400
Therefore, they having chose good and exercising exceeding great faith, exceedingly great faith

486
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:41,240
were called with this holy calling.

487
00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:42,240
What kind of calling?

488
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:49,520
I mean, you hear callings talked about, but this is one semi rare instance when we read

489
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:51,520
with a holy calling.

490
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:52,520
Yeah.

491
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:59,200
Yay with that holy calling which was prepared with and according to a preparatory redemption

492
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,200
for such.

493
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,200
There you go.

494
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:02,200
Isn't that powerful?

495
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:03,200
Yeah.

496
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:10,840
And the other instances are again mind blowing, especially being coming forth in in 1829.

497
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:11,840
Yeah.

498
00:30:11,840 --> 00:30:14,440
When this was all translated.

499
00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:19,520
Let me let me read for to I think that's that's applicable here and thus they have been called

500
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,880
to this holy calling on account of their faith while others would reject the spirit of God

501
00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:29,240
on account of their hardness of their hearts and the blindness of their minds.

502
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:36,440
Now, if it had not been for this, they might have had as great a privilege as their brother.

503
00:30:36,440 --> 00:30:37,440
Yeah.

504
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:38,440
Yeah.

505
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:44,480
And five says or or in fine in the first place or first estate, they were on the same

506
00:30:44,480 --> 00:30:46,000
standing with their brother.

507
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:47,000
Yeah.

508
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:53,160
But because they harden their hearts, they they were lost, which is one third, which is

509
00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:55,440
describing and just briefly there.

510
00:30:55,440 --> 00:30:56,440
Yeah.

511
00:30:56,440 --> 00:31:03,280
And the word the word heaven, well, it's amazing, Scott, that anyone who holds the priesthood

512
00:31:03,280 --> 00:31:12,360
or enjoys priesthood blessings or enjoys ordinances or covenants, sisters who are set apart and

513
00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,120
and function under priesthood keys.

514
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:22,880
All those in who in any way experience the power of the priesthood in this life were

515
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:29,640
foreordained in the first place or first estate, pre-moral existence to enjoy those

516
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,040
blessings here.

517
00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,600
But not everybody who was foreordained will enjoy those blessings here.

518
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:38,680
Yeah, probably not.

519
00:31:38,680 --> 00:31:46,160
You know, BH Roberts and some other brother in the church believe that being foreordained

520
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:48,920
was because of God's foreknowledge.

521
00:31:48,920 --> 00:31:49,920
Yeah.

522
00:31:49,920 --> 00:31:55,680
He knew that they would keep it or they wouldn't keep it.

523
00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:59,840
And if they were foreordained, they're going to keep it.

524
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:04,600
I mean, there's there's some brother and I'm just telling you, I don't I my answer to that

525
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,800
the question is, will will be everyone keep their foreordination?

526
00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:10,400
I don't know.

527
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,440
And it doesn't affect my salvation.

528
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:13,440
No.

529
00:32:13,440 --> 00:32:20,640
There are there are some opinions that if if that's based on God's foreknowledge, they're

530
00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:24,520
going to keep their foreordination.

531
00:32:24,520 --> 00:32:26,120
And I don't know that's true.

532
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:31,040
In fact, I think it's probably been taught by others that that you can lose that that

533
00:32:31,040 --> 00:32:32,240
that it's your agency.

534
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:34,400
I mean, God's not going to force you to do it.

535
00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:39,440
But based on his foreknowledge, knowing all things from the beginning to the end, I don't

536
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,440
know.

537
00:32:40,440 --> 00:32:44,720
Yeah, that's interesting, because prior to you just saying that, I would have thought,

538
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:51,640
well, you know, because of our ability to come down here and have make choices and have

539
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,440
free agency, free will and all of that.

540
00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:59,920
But you know, this is how I choose to think of it, Scott, because because it inspires me.

541
00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:06,120
I think Elder McConkey had a had a great test of great doctrine or whether it was true doctrine

542
00:33:06,120 --> 00:33:10,320
or not true doctrine is, does it inspire you to be a better person?

543
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:15,880
And if it inspires you to be a better that was just one point of several of his points

544
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:18,600
on how to test doctrine.

545
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:25,520
And the this doctrine of of foreordination, if I think, you know, God knew I was going

546
00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:26,520
to do it.

547
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,680
Yeah, yeah, good point.

548
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:31,800
God knew I could do it and that I would do it.

549
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:32,800
Yeah.

550
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:39,200
I think he knew, Scott, that you would overcome your addictions and hold priesthood keys and

551
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:41,360
you were foreordained to do that.

552
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,720
And nobody would have thought that 10 years ago.

553
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:47,720
Well, well, 24 years ago or 10.

554
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:48,720
Was it 24 years ago?

555
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:50,880
25 actually 25 years ago.

556
00:33:50,880 --> 00:33:53,720
You just celebrated that just last Thursday.

557
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,120
So nobody would have believed that 25 years ago.

558
00:33:56,120 --> 00:33:58,640
But but God wasn't worried about it.

559
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:00,400
You were foreordained to do that.

560
00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:04,960
And he knew that not only you could but that you would.

561
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:05,960
I don't know.

562
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,480
That's that's that's something that inspires me.

563
00:34:08,480 --> 00:34:09,480
Yeah, you know what?

564
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:14,080
Now that you now that you position it that way, I find inspiration in that too.

565
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:20,760
I have people in my life that I love dearly that aren't to obviously choosing to follow

566
00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:21,960
Heavenly Father's path.

567
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:22,960
Yeah, we all do.

568
00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:23,960
I do too.

569
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:27,840
But based on what you just said, you know, that that can also help us as parents, if

570
00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:29,560
those people they'll come around.

571
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:30,560
Yeah, exactly.

572
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,240
Yeah, they'll come around.

573
00:34:32,240 --> 00:34:33,240
God knows them.

574
00:34:33,240 --> 00:34:34,240
Yeah.

575
00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:38,560
And there, there, there, maybe they're failing right now, however you wanted to find that

576
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:39,960
or measure that.

577
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:42,400
Well, maybe maybe they're failing in their testimony.

578
00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:44,960
Maybe they're failing or wavering in their faith.

579
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:47,400
But but God knows them.

580
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:48,400
So true.

581
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,680
Sunday, when we were done with our church, Deb and I went and spoke out of Fifth Sunday,

582
00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:56,720
where we shared our experience, strength and hope around the Atonement of Jesus Christ and

583
00:34:56,720 --> 00:34:58,800
a Dictionary, recovery and things like that.

584
00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:03,080
And I had a couple of parents come up to me.

585
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:09,200
Just wonderful, wonderful people telling me about their son who had been sober for a couple

586
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:10,640
of years.

587
00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:15,680
And you know, this is this is what any faithful parent would be concerned about.

588
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:20,080
You know, my son's sober now and he's making better choices than he had been in the past.

589
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:21,720
And you know, this stuff can be scary.

590
00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:22,720
Right.

591
00:35:22,720 --> 00:35:25,120
I mean, we lose people to death and suicide.

592
00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:26,840
We have so much fear.

593
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:28,400
All that all the time.

594
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:34,080
But you know, but but now he's now he's sober, but he may not necessarily have aligned his

595
00:35:34,080 --> 00:35:37,160
life yet with gospel principles.

596
00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:38,160
Right.

597
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:43,760
And that that's happening, you know, and one of the things that we talk about in the rooms

598
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:48,960
of recovery is if we really have integrity, which is what we have to strive for, we really

599
00:35:48,960 --> 00:35:53,680
have integrity and we really have a testimony, then absolutely one day we will be better

600
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:55,760
aligned with gospel principles.

601
00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:03,200
But that can take time and to know that for ordination for our children is there can if

602
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:08,240
we if we view it right can take away some of the fear that we as parents feel.

603
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:11,520
I told this young couple, hey, I know how you feel.

604
00:36:11,520 --> 00:36:17,120
You know, I've laid at night recently staring at the ceiling, just stewing over and freaking

605
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:21,200
out and worried about my own son who's now sober too.

606
00:36:21,200 --> 00:36:24,400
But but you know, three months ago, I couldn't say that and that was a struggle.

607
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:29,280
I get that but knowing the four nation piece could be in place for these kids for these

608
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:31,600
people can really add inspiration.

609
00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:35,680
It can it can change one's life and inspire you.

610
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:39,680
Now God's not going to force anybody to keep their four nation.

611
00:36:39,680 --> 00:36:46,480
But but again, I'm what I'm banking on here, Scott, in in this idea.

612
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:51,840
And again, I don't know and there's no official doctrine on this, but I'm just going off what

613
00:36:51,840 --> 00:36:53,360
inspires me.

614
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,840
Yeah, I know God knows.

615
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,240
And I know because he knows he's in control.

616
00:37:02,240 --> 00:37:04,640
God is in control.

617
00:37:04,640 --> 00:37:06,480
I know that.

618
00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,760
And that that gives me a lot of peace.

619
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:11,600
It gives me a lot of hope.

620
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:14,560
He he's not going to manipulate.

621
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:21,200
He's not not only is he not going to force, but he is not going to manipulate the other

622
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:26,160
thing we need to remember when it comes to four nation is no one was foreordained to do

623
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,160
anything bad.

624
00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,440
Now he may have known that they were.

625
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,160
You know, when we say four nation, was it real?

626
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:35,680
Was it an ordination?

627
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,960
Did somebody lay their hands on your head and ordain you?

628
00:37:38,960 --> 00:37:42,640
Was there ordination involved this this idea of four nation?

629
00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:47,680
We know so there's so much more we would like to know about the pre-mortal existence.

630
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:51,280
We have been taught that there that we made covenants there.

631
00:37:51,280 --> 00:37:59,440
We have been taught that that we that we received, you know, certain blessings there.

632
00:37:59,440 --> 00:38:03,040
Were we four ordained?

633
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:08,800
Was it not just based on is four nation not just based on four knowledge, but some sort

634
00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:11,040
of ordination like a priesthood?

635
00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:13,760
Yeah, I don't I don't know Scott, but either.

636
00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:14,960
But this is what I know.

637
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:16,160
Yeah.

638
00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:21,520
Is that when we talk of four nation, no one was foreordained to be a bad guy.

639
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:21,920
Right.

640
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,360
That's not how God works.

641
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,840
That's not how he he thinks of people.

642
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:31,600
A lot of people think that Judas was foreordained to betray Jesus Christ.

643
00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:36,560
There's no four nation in any evil that might be done in this world.

644
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,360
That's now God may know that they will.

645
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,720
He may know because it was for knowledge that that may happen.

646
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,520
But you can't say they were foreordained to do that.

647
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:48,960
That's different.

648
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,520
So I don't know.

649
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:57,840
It's a it's a subject that I think can be really inspiring and helpful in understanding who

650
00:38:57,840 --> 00:39:04,080
we are and to motivate us to to to seek to return home to our heavenly home.

651
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:11,040
But I I we just don't know if if everyone's going to keep their

652
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:12,160
four nation or not.

653
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:18,880
But I would like to think that most of them, if not all of them will because again of the

654
00:39:18,880 --> 00:39:23,760
of the foreknowledge of God, I can't imagine him foredaining anyone to anything.

655
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:24,240
Yeah.

656
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:28,000
If he didn't believe or know that they were going to do it.

657
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:33,040
You know, we talk about that that provides I've been my mind's been going a million miles

658
00:39:33,040 --> 00:39:34,720
an hour as you've been talking about this.

659
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:39,360
But you know, we talk about how this four ordination that can inspire us, especially

660
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:44,400
for people around us, you know, at least at first glance, you know, for example, you know,

661
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,680
if I have children who are struggling and I do, we all do.

662
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,560
And you know, if they are foreordained and that four nation is going to be kept that take that

663
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:55,520
takes a lot of worry out and fear away from me.

664
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:57,520
But but what's even more than that maybe.

665
00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:02,960
And I had these thoughts when I was going through my own experience of overcoming addiction,

666
00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:04,320
overcoming natural man.

667
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,240
I'm still in the process of that, obviously.

668
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:11,360
But I had those same thoughts and experiences, you know, what I would read and about or remember

669
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:12,800
about four ordination.

670
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:19,600
If I really am foreordained to this and I really am one day going to fly right, so to speak,

671
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,720
you know, that provides personal inspiration to Dave.

672
00:40:22,720 --> 00:40:23,200
Right.

673
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:24,560
No doubt about it.

674
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:24,720
Yeah.

675
00:40:24,720 --> 00:40:28,000
You know, so, you know, if that's how I'm going to, if that's how I'm going to be anyway,

676
00:40:28,000 --> 00:40:29,600
why don't I just start now?

677
00:40:29,600 --> 00:40:30,960
Yeah, absolutely.

678
00:40:30,960 --> 00:40:31,600
Yeah.

679
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:34,400
I love I've always loved this quote.

680
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:39,680
We've shared this before in previous seasons, but I've always loved this and Elder Maxwell

681
00:40:39,680 --> 00:40:42,560
was present when this this thought was given.

682
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:46,480
This was given in a CES fireside many years ago.

683
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:52,160
This is a stake president to I can picture him and hear his voice.

684
00:40:53,200 --> 00:41:00,160
Really popular humanitarian or humanities professor and stake president at BYU.

685
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,800
His name was Lell Woodbury.

686
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:10,640
Woodbury and President Woodbury in a commissioners fireside church education fireside.

687
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:12,800
This is what he said.

688
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:14,800
So I'm going to read it.

689
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,240
You tell me what you get out of it.

690
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:17,760
Let's talk about it.

691
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:24,720
Equally complete now is each of our lives before the Lord.

692
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:29,440
We are continually before him.

693
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:37,840
The totality of our psyches personalities bodies choices behaviors and outcomes are always before

694
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:44,000
him knowledge of this fact should change our entire approach to life.

695
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:54,960
For life becomes then not a cumulative additive process one in which we layer on increments

696
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:59,920
of perfection like successive coats of lacquer or varnish.

697
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:08,560
Life is rather a challenge to discover who we are not to determine who we shall become.

698
00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:17,600
Who were we and what were we when we shouted for joy as the foundations of the earth were laid.

699
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:23,280
What feats what great feats did we perform in the great battle in heaven?

700
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,280
How did we keep our first estate?

701
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:33,760
Why and by whom were we for ordained to the holy priesthood to leadership positions to airship in the

702
00:42:33,760 --> 00:42:34,960
house of Israel.

703
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:38,400
In what way are we created in the image of God?

704
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,280
How are we his sons and daughters?

705
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:50,560
How literal is our endowment to become kings priests and gods queens priestesses and goddesses?

706
00:42:50,560 --> 00:43:00,800
The greater prophecy the greater prophecy Scott is not what we shall become but who we are.

707
00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,880
And I would just put in parentheses and how God sees us.

708
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:11,040
The challenge is not to add on perfection but to strip away blindness.

709
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:12,720
I love that.

710
00:43:12,720 --> 00:43:21,200
The challenge is not to add on perfection but to strip away blindness and corruption and to

711
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,080
discover who we really are.

712
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:27,200
The essence is greater than the promise.

713
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:32,720
We are better subsumed in being than we are in becoming.

714
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,200
Now I love the idea of becoming and all that President Oakes and others have said about we are

715
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:40,880
becoming and I know that.

716
00:43:40,880 --> 00:43:48,560
But what he is saying here is we don't spend enough time in trying to understand who we were in the

717
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:57,680
pre-mortal existence and who we really are than to trying to continually prove ourselves in this life.

718
00:43:58,320 --> 00:44:04,400
It's kind of a different approach to how you live life and the effect.

719
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:09,680
Knowing, having that knowledge of who you were, we're going to share a few experiences of

720
00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:16,640
individuals who are close to us, individuals who I know, who because of the revelation they

721
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:22,000
personally received and the glimpse that they received in their patriarchal blessing or by

722
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:26,960
other means, when you get a glimpse of who you were in the pre-mortal existence,

723
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:32,960
Scott, you're not so worried about trying to prove yourself in this life.

724
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:33,520
No you're not.

725
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,920
You're just trying to be who you were.

726
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:38,960
That's different.

727
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:39,920
That's a different approach.

728
00:44:40,720 --> 00:44:47,520
If we could just get a glimpse, if we could just part the veil for a moment and see who we were

729
00:44:47,520 --> 00:44:55,040
and the participation that we experienced in the pre-mortal existence supporting sustaining.

730
00:44:55,040 --> 00:44:59,440
Scott, I've given two patriarchal blessings the last two weeks.

731
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:07,360
Both of them were powerful in supporting Jesus Christ in their pre-mortal existence

732
00:45:07,360 --> 00:45:11,760
and defending him and the Father's plan of redemption.

733
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:20,640
Now I know that about these youth that are coming forth to prepare the earth for the second coming.

734
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:26,800
All of that was foreordained based on the foreknowledge of God and their participation

735
00:45:26,800 --> 00:45:30,320
in the pre-mortal existence and who they are as spirits.

736
00:45:30,320 --> 00:45:35,920
And if we could just get more in touch with our spirit self and who we were in the

737
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:45,440
pre-mortal existence, oh Scott, I just think life would take on a different meaning in our

738
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:46,320
approach to living.

739
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:47,040
It would be different.

740
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:47,360
Oh yeah.

741
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:52,880
You asked me my take on what you just read and I have so many things, but I think it really

742
00:45:52,880 --> 00:45:55,440
boils down to just one main thing.

743
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:57,840
We learn about who we are.

744
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:03,360
We learn about this foreordination and we learn about all of the great and wonder,

745
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:08,800
the great and wonder, a lot of the great and wonderful things that we participated in there

746
00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:10,400
that prepared us to come here.

747
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,920
What we really learned there though, that we have forgotten because of the veil and we have

748
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:22,480
to come to a remembrance of and we do that when we are partaking of the sacrament, we remember him.

749
00:46:22,480 --> 00:46:28,240
And so not only did we know a lot more about ourselves there, but we knew a lot more about him.

750
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:34,000
And understanding that foreordination may empower me and it does.

751
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,280
There is no question.

752
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,360
But what it does even more than that, David, is it points me away from myself and to him

753
00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:40,960
in this life.

754
00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:42,880
I love, you know, and I will read this real quick.

755
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:45,040
Adam Miller, I know you love Adam Miller.

756
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:48,080
I love Adam Miller, wrote a book called Letters to a Young Mormon.

757
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:51,840
And this is just one excerpt from it and I love this.

758
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:55,360
Keeping the law doesn't earn you heavenly merits and breaking the law doesn't

759
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,520
earn you hellish demerits.

760
00:46:57,520 --> 00:46:58,320
OK, that's fine.

761
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:00,800
And that's for a conversation that we'll have down the road here.

762
00:47:00,800 --> 00:47:03,040
But both merits and demerits are about you.

763
00:47:03,040 --> 00:47:08,560
The purpose of the law is to point you away from yourself, free you from the self-obsessed

764
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,000
burden of your own story and center you on Christ.

765
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:14,800
Yeah.

766
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,960
And I think that's where that began, right?

767
00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,520
You don't need to generate merit in order to be saved.

768
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:27,200
You need to instead to come to Christ and rely wholly upon his merits of him who is mighty to

769
00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:32,480
save. So when I start worrying about, I got foreordained, I made promises and I come down here

770
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:34,160
and I've already screwed all that up.

771
00:47:34,160 --> 00:47:35,840
I've already made a mess of all of that.

772
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:38,240
Then I'm seeing it wrong.

773
00:47:38,240 --> 00:47:39,440
You're seeing it totally wrong.

774
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:40,240
Totally wrong.

775
00:47:40,240 --> 00:47:41,440
Totally wrong.

776
00:47:41,440 --> 00:47:46,480
And if I don't remember that from there, everything else is going to be difficult for

777
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:47,600
me to put into place too.

778
00:47:48,880 --> 00:47:55,840
I mean, just just real quickly, you know, you take you take an example of my my son who we adopted

779
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:03,440
as fetal alcoholism, as as burgers, who struggled with bipolar and then all of his all of his

780
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,840
struggles, Scott, you know,

781
00:48:08,240 --> 00:48:13,760
in the I'm not sure he sees himself, but the way he should.

782
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:20,640
But when I know the society doesn't see him, even close the way that God sees him.

783
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:26,240
But but his mom and I have received a glimpse of who he is.

784
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:33,120
And then I remember sitting out on the deck one day and us kind of talking to each other and

785
00:48:33,920 --> 00:48:37,840
and saying, how isn't he going to be glorious in the resurrection?

786
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:39,360
Yeah. Oh boy.

787
00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:42,000
All that pent up.

788
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,040
Isn't he going to be glorious in the resurrection?

789
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:45,280
Yes.

790
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:49,440
And honestly, Scott, I know I know this life is a test.

791
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:52,000
And I know this is scripture, right?

792
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:56,640
This is Moses sent him down there to prove themselves.

793
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:57,600
I know that.

794
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:05,120
But I, for example, Truman Madsen used to always say about the Abraham and Isaac and the great test,

795
00:49:05,120 --> 00:49:06,240
the Abrahamic test.

796
00:49:06,960 --> 00:49:12,960
Why would God ask Abraham to sacrifice his son, Isaac?

797
00:49:12,960 --> 00:49:14,800
Why would God do that?

798
00:49:14,800 --> 00:49:22,560
And Truman Madsen's answer to that question was always, well, God knew what he would do.

799
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:28,000
He didn't ask him to do that because God wondered whether he would do it or not,

800
00:49:28,000 --> 00:49:29,920
whether he'd be obedient or not.

801
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:35,760
He did that so that Abraham could learn something about Abraham.

802
00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:42,880
He did that so that Abraham could learn about himself and

803
00:49:42,880 --> 00:49:52,880
himself and to become more focused upon this whole idea of the father sacrificing his son

804
00:49:53,760 --> 00:49:58,080
and to focus Abraham on redemption through Jesus Christ.

805
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:00,720
I mean, Scott, that's what it all comes down to.

806
00:50:00,720 --> 00:50:00,960
Yeah.

807
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:08,320
If, honestly, if we could just see ourselves the way God sees us, if we could just get a glimpse of

808
00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:15,280
standing in the premortal existence, of raising our right arm or even going to war

809
00:50:15,280 --> 00:50:23,600
to defend the plan of redemption and to defend the commission given to Jesus Christ to be our

810
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:24,720
Savior and Redeemer.

811
00:50:25,680 --> 00:50:30,240
I mean, if we could see that, think of how that would inspire us and

812
00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:36,560
pull us, strengthen us towards doing better.

813
00:50:36,560 --> 00:50:40,160
It would do all that, but it would also provide a lot of relief.

814
00:50:40,800 --> 00:50:45,760
It would relieve us from virtually any anxiety that we experience here,

815
00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:50,240
with the exception of those that suffer from organic depression.

816
00:50:50,240 --> 00:50:54,320
It would definitely relieve a ton of our depression that we experience here.

817
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:57,040
Fear gone.

818
00:50:58,480 --> 00:51:04,960
If we just come to the knowledge of that, fear gone, anxiety gone, all of those things that

819
00:51:04,960 --> 00:51:10,160
really beset us in this mortal existence would really not have any power over us.

820
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:10,400
Right.

821
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:12,320
Right, Scott.

822
00:51:12,320 --> 00:51:19,840
So we probably should end today by turning to a book of Revelation in the Bible and reading just

823
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:22,640
those few verses about the war in heaven.

824
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:25,040
Most of this chapter is on the war in heaven.

825
00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:27,920
It's Revelation chapter 12 verses 9 through 11.

826
00:51:27,920 --> 00:51:35,920
But if you want to read those three verses, the Revelation chapter 12 verses 9 through 11,

827
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:40,800
then let's talk about what we learned about who we were and about the role we played.

828
00:51:40,800 --> 00:51:48,880
And not just that we overcame Satan, but how did we overcome Satan in the pre-mortal existence,

829
00:51:48,880 --> 00:51:52,800
which means really, how will we overcome him here?

830
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:56,880
This scripture, I think, can be life changing.

831
00:51:56,880 --> 00:52:02,400
And the great dragon was cast out, the adult serpent called the devil and Satan,

832
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,480
which deceiveth the whole world.

833
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,720
He was cast out into the earth and his angels were cast out with him.

834
00:52:09,440 --> 00:52:11,760
And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven,

835
00:52:11,760 --> 00:52:18,320
Now this is come salvation and strength and the kingdom of our God and the power of his

836
00:52:18,320 --> 00:52:27,200
Christ for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accuses them before God day and night.

837
00:52:27,200 --> 00:52:32,800
And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb and by the word of their testimony.

838
00:52:32,800 --> 00:52:36,640
And they loved not their lives unto death.

839
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:42,640
So that last verse, verse 11, we learned a lot about God.

840
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,320
We learned a lot about the accuser.

841
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,920
The title given to Satan, which is perfect, how he accuses us.

842
00:52:49,920 --> 00:52:55,280
And not not just there, but he continues to accuse us here that we aren't spirit,

843
00:52:55,280 --> 00:53:02,640
that we are only, you know, flesh and blood, and that we anyway, he continues to accuse us.

844
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,320
He accuses God.

845
00:53:04,320 --> 00:53:06,000
He accuses our savior.

846
00:53:06,000 --> 00:53:11,280
He accuses everything and tries to make good evil and evil.

847
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,040
Good, but verse 11, they overcame him.

848
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:16,160
This is us, Scott.

849
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:21,200
This is this is all of those who have come to this world with a body.

850
00:53:21,200 --> 00:53:24,720
They overcame him by the blood of the Lamb.

851
00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:30,160
In other words, Scott, based just on that line, Brother Matthews believed that we were

852
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:31,600
repented in the spirit world.

853
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:37,440
That it wasn't just through the enabling power of Jesus Christ and his atonement, which had

854
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,400
effect on us in the premortal existence, but that it was through the redemptive power of

855
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:44,800
Jesus Christ and that we repented there.

856
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:52,000
In fact, he he taught that if you can commit the unpardonable sin in the premortal existence,

857
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:56,480
which Satan and one third of the host of heaven did, if you can commit that sin, there must

858
00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:02,800
have been other degrees of righteousness and under righteousness in the premortal existence.

859
00:54:02,800 --> 00:54:08,400
And we must have known something about sin, not the same, not in the same sort of physical

860
00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:14,640
way that we understand sin here in this life, but there must have been some degree of it.

861
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:19,280
And it is to some extent, and I I don't want to get into all the philosophy of that.

862
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:25,760
But the point is, we knew that through Christ and the blood, and you know, he didn't have

863
00:54:25,760 --> 00:54:28,160
blood there, but we must have seen it.

864
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,160
We must have seen the atonement.

865
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,920
We must have seen it. We must have seen the atonement of Jesus Christ.

866
00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:38,640
And what when Isaiah describes the atonement of Jesus Christ and how we all looked upon

867
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:45,600
him, I think that's describing our pre premortal estate in existence when we all saw the atonement

868
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:51,840
of Jesus Christ before we were born, that we overcame Satan by the blood of the lamb.

869
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:55,920
We knew about the atonement of Jesus Christ and we relied on him.

870
00:54:55,920 --> 00:55:01,360
That's number one. And by the word of their testimony, we had testimonies, God, in the

871
00:55:01,360 --> 00:55:08,720
premortal existence. We bore witness. We were missionaries. We were sharing our testimonies

872
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:14,000
by the word of their testimonies. And in sharing those testimonies, we would have influenced

873
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:21,920
others. There was a war, a philosophical war of words, a war of beliefs.

874
00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:32,320
So anyway, we had testimonies and it was not just by having them, but by the word and sharing them

875
00:55:32,880 --> 00:55:38,000
that we overcame Satan there and Scott, that's how we'll overcome him here.

876
00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:46,640
Right. And then third, and they love not their lives unto the death, meaning we were willing

877
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:54,000
to go to the wall for Jesus Christ and the father's plan of redemption in the premortal

878
00:55:54,000 --> 00:56:02,480
existence. We were willing to give all that we had, even our whole souls, our whole spirit,

879
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:08,640
our whole life in the premortal existence before we came here. And that's how we'll

880
00:56:08,640 --> 00:56:21,120
overcome him here. So who are we? We're his. It's a, it's a, Scott, I think that this one doctor and

881
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:28,320
which again, we have to acknowledge the role of the Prophet Joseph Smith and the restoration

882
00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:30,720
that we even believe this or that we even know this.

883
00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:41,680
That before we were born, that we were foreordained, that we were among the noble and the great ones

884
00:56:41,680 --> 00:56:50,640
chosen, that we were, that we are spirit, that our spiritual lives are the thing that matters the most.

885
00:56:52,320 --> 00:57:00,160
That these, all of these truths can maybe be appreciated and applied by this quote by President

886
00:57:00,160 --> 00:57:12,000
Uchtdorf when he said, I testify that God sees us as we truly are past, present, and future.

887
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,400
And he sees us worthy of his rescue.

888
00:57:18,800 --> 00:57:24,400
You may feel that your life is in ruins, he says. You may have sinned, you may be afraid,

889
00:57:24,400 --> 00:57:31,200
you may be angry, grieving, or tortured by doubt, but just as the good shepherd finds his lost sheep,

890
00:57:31,920 --> 00:57:39,920
if you will only lift up your heart to the Savior of the world, he will find you. He will rescue you,

891
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:45,040
he will lift you up and place you on his shoulders and he will carry you home.

892
00:57:45,040 --> 00:57:54,720
I just testify, God knows us, God. He knows who we are and the fact that we're here and that we're

893
00:57:54,720 --> 00:58:01,520
engaged in his kingdom, building his kingdom, in preparing the earth for the second coming of

894
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:09,760
Jesus Christ should give us some idea of who we were and what we were foreordained to accomplish.

895
00:58:09,760 --> 00:58:18,400
This should give us so much confidence and humility and faith and hope and love.

896
00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:26,240
So I hope our listeners will maybe reread some of the scriptures we shared and find their own

897
00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:34,720
and ponder these truths and find their favorite quotes from the prophets on who we were and

898
00:58:34,720 --> 00:58:41,840
as much as you can about our pre-mortal state and let that inspire you here in mortality.

899
00:58:43,280 --> 00:58:49,440
And I think it's that remembering that sometimes we struggle with. I think it's often common. I

900
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:56,320
don't know if I would use the word easy, but it is easy too to sometimes forget and have a lapse in

901
00:58:56,320 --> 00:59:02,240
memory of those experiences. I think that they've been the best way for me and maybe this can be

902
00:59:02,240 --> 00:59:09,760
our invitation. You just extended one to go search the scriptures for this, but maybe one invitation

903
00:59:09,760 --> 00:59:14,720
I could extend to is maybe we just add to our prayers this week. Heavenly Father, help me remember

904
00:59:14,720 --> 00:59:22,320
who I am. Please just help me remember who I am and I promise us all that through the Spirit if we

905
00:59:22,320 --> 00:59:28,400
seek and strive for alignment with him, with Jesus, with our Heavenly Father, with the Spirit,

906
00:59:28,400 --> 00:59:35,920
that the Spirit will bear witness to us, whose we are, and also maybe empower us in ways to help us

907
00:59:35,920 --> 00:59:43,920
to retain that memory, that memory, Dave. Instead of striving so hard to add on perfection,

908
00:59:44,960 --> 00:59:50,720
maybe we should try to strip away blindness. And as always, have a great week. Remember who you

909
00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,880
are. Remember who's you are. Remember that you have been redeemed through his blood and we look

910
00:59:54,880 --> 01:00:00,880
forward to being with you next week. Till then, take care.