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Hey there everybody and welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.

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I'm Scott Durfey and joined as always by David Durfey

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What's up Dave?

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Good to be here Scott.

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Good to have an old friend with us today.

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Yeah, I'll be careful on using adjectives like old.

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Well, old enemy neutral.

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Yeah, there you go.

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There you go.

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Hey gang, before we get started, I just want to thank you all for your responses, your

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emails, all of that.

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Just it's so wonderful, so great to hear from you.

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Last week we were able to address a question from an email and we'll continue to try and

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do that as we can.

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You can send those to heredeemsus.com.

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He redeemsus.com.

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Well, listen Dave, this week is a treat for me.

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I think it probably is for you as well.

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We have a guest with us that has some notoriety in the church and his name is Jack Christensen.

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I have had the opportunity to know Jack for a little over 25 years.

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I'll have 25 years, I guess a little under 25 years.

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I'll have 25 years sober next month.

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In fact, one month from yesterday, as a matter of fact.

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Awesome.

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It's hard to believe.

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Hard to believe.

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After a few years of being in recovery, I had an opportunity to speak with Jack at a

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fireside and I'm sure I have a brighter recollection of that than Jack because he gets an opportunity

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to do that so much.

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I felt like I was with a celebrity because I had listened to so many of his talk tapes

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and stuff growing up.

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I know Jack is Jack Jack the scripture maniac.

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That's right.

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Wow, I can't remember that.

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You didn't know that.

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Well, I know that about Jack and Jack and David know the scriptures to a degree that

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I I hope to some day aspire to.

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But anyway, that's Jack Dave.

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I'm going to let you take it from here and say a few more words and then just kind of

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get us rolling.

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Thanks, Scott.

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Yeah, thanks, Jack for being with us.

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So honored to be here with both of you.

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Jack are what is our stand for?

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It's just our yeah, that's what I thought it's just a middle initial.

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In fact, on all of my products that I have books and it has a period.

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But I didn't learn until I started doing family history that my real name is just Jack are

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yeah, no period, no period.

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So I just leave the period on it.

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But I'm Jack are my dad is Jack.

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So I'm junior.

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Okay, so well, I Jack Jack and I, I guess we knew each other when we were in high school

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playing against each other in sports and he was my my nemesis and we had a lot of respect,

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I think for each other then he was best quarterback.

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I know we played against and it was always fun to beat him.

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I know that he's the only one that did.

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Well I'm going to save you all the research to these guys played in the day of one Gifford

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Nelson.

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That's right.

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Yeah.

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Gifford was a pro bow and Jack was the quarterback at Orem.

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And I remember the, you know, coming over to Orem their homecoming and beating them

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seven to nothing.

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That was that was a big deal for us because we had a Merrick work was kind of small and

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or was really big and one of the bigger schools in the state and had a great team went on

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and one state and did all kinds of great things.

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And anyway, well, it's only been 52 years and I'm still hurting, but that's okay.

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I can be redeemed.

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That's what I know.

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Physically hurting or emotionally hurting.

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Yeah.

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It was mentally mentally.

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I got you.

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That's that makes sense to get beat by a little American fork.

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He was probably really humbling for Jack, which was good for him.

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Yeah.

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Anyway, so we were kind of a nemesis to each other, but we've become great friends.

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Jack went on, played a little college football.

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He met the love of his life.

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Melanie Harris.

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Right.

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And how many children do you have?

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We have one son and five, four daughters, one son, four daughters and our children and

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our, we have 19 grandchildren and four great grandchildren.

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Jack has had many, many church positions and callings.

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After after we taught seminary for a while and I remember observing him teach before

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I actually became a seminary teacher.

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He was a popular teacher.

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I remember him holding his head, people's heads in buckets of water, at least that's

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what I observed.

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That's correct.

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In order to teach them that when they desired God as much as they desired air using the

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sock Socrates experience, you know, when somebody came and asked Socrates, how did he become

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so smart?

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He said, when you desire knowledge more than you desire air after you tried dunked him in

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the ocean and he passed out and Jack was using that for testimony.

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And anyway, I wanted to become a seminary teacher.

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I've always wanted to become like Jack.

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So anyway, it's just really an honor to have him here and he's served as a stake president

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mission president and it's so sweet now, Jack that we share the calling of being a patriarch.

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Well Jack has quite an education too.

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Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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Jack attended.

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Oxford, PhD.

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It's the private side of Oxford, which is Buckingham.

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Buckingham.

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Yeah.

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And served as a besides being Institute Director at UVU, where I was also Institute Director.

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He went over to the secular side, became vice president at Utah Valley University and then

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was called away as a mission president.

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I was actually the assistant to the president, special assistant to the president.

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So I had my office right next to the president and it was great.

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Yeah.

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And had such a positive effect on the university from the community standpoint, building trust

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and support from the community.

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Anyway, Jack, it's just really an honor to have you here and we wanted to be able to have

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you share with us some of your experiences that you've had throughout your life with

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the redemption of Jesus Christ and his atoning sacrifice.

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You and I have spent enough time together.

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I wish it was more, but we've been on a golf trip together and you hosted us when I came

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back to New York and the sacred grove.

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When you were mission president in the New York Rochester mission and anyway, we've had

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enough time together that I know who Jack is and that Jack's had so many experiences

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personally as well as experiences helping others to fill the love of God through the

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redemption of his son.

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So let's just start Jack by having you kind of share any experiences that you want as

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examples of the redemption of Jesus Christ and the power of his atonement.

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Well thank you, Dave and Scott.

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It's a joy to be with you.

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I think the most important thing that I can say to any listeners and to the two of you

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is that I am an, I have an absolute certain witness of the divinity of Jesus Christ.

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I am a living witness of his redemptive power, not only in my own life, but in the lives

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of many, many people that I've had the privilege of serving with and my family.

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I didn't have the great privilege that some of you have had of growing up in an active

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Latter-day Saint family.

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My mom and dad for whatever reason chose not to be active.

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And as a result, they developed habits, they had issues all along the way.

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We talk about Scott being sober for 25 years.

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My father, both my grandfathers, my brother, some of my uncles all struggled with addiction.

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And so it was very, very common in my life to see it growing up.

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I didn't understand it, I do now, thank goodness.

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But my two grandfathers just had difficult lives.

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One was in World War I.

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I never got the problems that war creates in the mind and the spirit and the very soul

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of people.

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And my grandpa, my grandpa, Christensen had some struggles.

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But when he grasped the gospel, I think the premise of what I'd like to say about both

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my grandparent, my grandfathers, my two grandmothers were as, I can't even talk about them.

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They were as saintly as they get.

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And I'll talk about them in a minute because that's what set the whole, my whole course

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of wanting to help other people.

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And by the way, Jack, the one thing I admire the most about you is the individuals who

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I have seen you help.

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Just the one on one.

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You know, besides the masses, the books and the tapes and the leadership positions you've

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held, Jack, I remember the one young man at UVU who used to come in the Institute every

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once in a while.

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Yeah, Dana Wilson.

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And he would always call you when he needed help and you were always, how was Dana doing?

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He's passed away.

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He died of COVID.

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He did.

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And it was a really, I took him to be tested.

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I helped him for 32 plus years.

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I took him shopping every week.

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What was his handicap?

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He had cerebral palsy and a mental deficiency.

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And he always, you know, you were like, you were like more than a brother to him.

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You were like his dad, his brother, his, his lawyer, his housekeeper, his everything.

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And anyway, that's, that's the one thing about you, Jack, since you, you just said it.

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That's what gave you the desire to serve others.

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You have been an amazing example to me.

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Well, thank you.

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Thank you.

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It's been a privilege.

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I mean, sometimes you worry if you are not worry, isn't the right word, but you wonder

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if it does any good and it wears you out.

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But my very first year of teaching, there was a sign on a teacher's wall in his office

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that changed my life.

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He said, you are not the interruption of my life, but the purpose for it.

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And I have tried to live by that.

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That a student isn't an interruption.

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A troubled teenager isn't an interruption.

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You're the purpose for which I exist.

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And when you go to what president Ezra Taft Benson said, he said this, just as a man or

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a woman does not desire food until they are hungry.

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So they will not desire the salvation of Christ until they know why they need Christ.

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And then he goes on and says, and no one properly and adequately knows why they need Christ

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until they understand one doctrine above them all.

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And that is the fall.

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Exactly.

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We've quoted that.

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And then he says, and no other book on earth teaches that better than the Book of Mormon.

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And so if we can somehow grasp the Book of Mormon and not just hold to it, but remember

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the phrase from First Nephi 8, the group that held fast and continually to the iron rod

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when they got to the tree, they realized it's not even a tree.

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They fell down.

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They fell down and worshiped because they realized it's him.

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It's him.

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And that's what can happen to each of us.

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And I have needed the redemption of the Savior and his sacred blood.

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Going back to my grandparents, when my grandfather Christensen got active in the church and overcame

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some of his issues, I didn't really know him other than when he, well, that's not true.

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When I was a little tiny kid, but as I got older, he died when I was 17.

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And he had to use the redemption of Christ to overcome his addictions, to overcome his

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traditions and his anger about certain things.

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But he went to the Manti Temple with my grandmother and they were faithful.

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Both of them died completely faithful.

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My grandpa, Pinnaker, they lost, my grandma and grandpa Pinnaker lost a 15-year-old, a

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four-year-old, an 18-month-old, and then a son in World War II, all within a short amount

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of time, plus my grandmother's parents and sisters.

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The four-year-old and the 18-month-old all died within like 18 months of each other.

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And my grandfather did not handle it well.

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And he began to drink.

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My grandmother, on the other hand, it's very similar to in Alma where it says, because

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of the exceedingly great length of the war, some got turned against and some became softened.

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Some were harder, some were softer.

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And so my grandpa went harder, my grandmother became the saint of saints.

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And when my uncle Max and Rex turned 10 years old, they went to my grandfather and said,

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we want a special birthday gift for our 10th birthday.

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And my grandpa thought it was another bicycle because the two of them had to share a bicycle.

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They were twins.

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They were twins.

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Yeah.

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And some maybe don't know elder Rex Pinnaker.

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Yeah, of the first quorum of the 70s.

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And so they said, dad, we want a special gift from you.

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And he said, oh, I just want another bike.

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You can't share your bike?

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No, we want you to stop drinking when we turn 10.

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And to my knowledge, he never had another drink.

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I only knew my grandpa Pinnaker as a superstar spiritually.

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I have his scriptures that were what I got from him.

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I have a talk he gave that was inserted in his pearl of great price that I treasured.

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He died when I was 13.

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My grandpa Christiansen died when I was 17.

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But why that is so significant.

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It is, I don't know why my parents chose the way they did.

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A lot of it had to do with World War II.

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My dad left for World War II active in the church and elder.

242
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,880
He played football two years at BYU before he left, came home with a ton of problems.

243
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:21,240
He and my mom had dated in high school.

244
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Excuse me, that's not true.

245
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They went all through school together.

246
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And then my mom was divorced with two children at the end of the war.

247
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And my dad came home from war and they married and they raised us not active in the church.

248
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However, they got it together.

249
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You want to talk about how it's affected my life.

250
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:44,600
I feel, I need to tell you a story.

251
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,640
If you don't mind me talking about my family.

252
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:53,320
I was a grown man with children when I learned this story.

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00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:58,960
And I want to share it because I don't think people appreciate why people do what they

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do.

255
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:09,000
And somehow we've got to get to the point where we realize that this life is birth to

256
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,120
the final judgment and resurrection.

257
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,840
Too many unfair things birth to death.

258
00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:17,520
In other words, Jack, we've talked on this podcast.

259
00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:22,360
There's a difference between temptations and conditions.

260
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:23,360
Amen.

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00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,360
Section 46.

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00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:29,160
The Lord knows the condition of every single person.

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00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:32,400
He suits his mercy according to their condition.

264
00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:34,960
And that is absolutely correct.

265
00:16:34,960 --> 00:16:39,040
And so it's not going to be the same for everybody.

266
00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:45,840
So when my parents got married, they didn't raise us in the church, but my grandparents

267
00:16:45,840 --> 00:16:48,680
were incredible influences in my life.

268
00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:53,400
My grandmother, Pinnaker would say to me, every time she saw me, every time, that's not an

269
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:54,400
exaggeration.

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00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:55,760
Oh, you're going to be a wonderful missionary.

271
00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:57,560
Well, I don't want to be a missionary.

272
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,800
I want to be a football player.

273
00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:01,800
But guess what happened?

274
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:08,640
Her influence made me want to go serve those because I realized why I needed Christ.

275
00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:14,560
But let me tell you a story that I never told in public, that I think will be helpful to

276
00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,000
your listeners.

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00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,040
I was a senior at Orm High.

278
00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:24,160
It was during football season.

279
00:17:24,160 --> 00:17:31,200
My dad was coming home from a meeting late at night and stopped at the bar, had too much

280
00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:37,720
to drink, and hit a parked car not too far from our home.

281
00:17:37,720 --> 00:17:46,280
And the police came, and the officer that was there saw my dad's driver's license.

282
00:17:46,280 --> 00:17:49,360
And his name was Jack Christensen.

283
00:17:49,360 --> 00:17:54,600
And the officer said to my dad, hey, he related to Jack Christensen that's a quarterback of

284
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:55,600
Orm High School.

285
00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,200
He said, yeah, he's my son.

286
00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:03,760
Now before I tell you what happened, let me tell you how I learned this story.

287
00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:09,840
I was making fun of that officer and mocking him a little bit as a grown man.

288
00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:11,600
Just do you remember this officer?

289
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:14,440
Because he'd picked me up a couple of times.

290
00:18:14,440 --> 00:18:17,760
And I just kind of was teasing about him.

291
00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:20,520
And my dad grabbed me by the shoulders.

292
00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:22,960
He says, you have no idea what you're talking about.

293
00:18:22,960 --> 00:18:23,960
Son, you sit down.

294
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:26,000
Let me tell you a story.

295
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,440
That man's the greatest man in Orm, Utah.

296
00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:34,200
He says, you have no idea what he did for you and for me.

297
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,920
That officer, when he pulled my dad over, my dad got to the accident.

298
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,280
He saw that driver's license.

299
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:45,880
And he said, I cannot embarrass your son at this time during the football season.

300
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,000
You can ruin his life.

301
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:55,640
He said, Mr. Christensen, will you promise me if I take care of this and make it go away

302
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:59,560
that you will never drink and drive again?

303
00:18:59,560 --> 00:19:03,840
And my dad said, sir, if I give my word, I'll keep my word no matter what.

304
00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:07,080
I promise you I will never drink and drive again.

305
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:13,240
Thank you for caring about the reputation of my son.

306
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:16,240
Let me tell you how I feel about that man.

307
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:17,240
I didn't know it.

308
00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:20,120
I'll never make fun of anybody again, ever.

309
00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,560
Because I had no idea that that had happened.

310
00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:24,560
And I had children.

311
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,280
And I was, I think I was a bishop at the time.

312
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:29,520
And my dad let me know.

313
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:36,440
And you talk about the mercy of Christ because that started my father on a softening process.

314
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:42,320
And both my parents started reading the Book of Mormon.

315
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:47,560
We had an incredible bishop, an incredible Relief Society president or ward.

316
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:51,920
The bishop just came to our home and said, hey, don't you think it's time?

317
00:19:51,920 --> 00:20:00,040
And so they ended up, we were sealed February 27th, 1973.

318
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:04,740
And I and my sister were the only two of the five children that were sealed at that time.

319
00:20:04,740 --> 00:20:10,400
And then one by one, they have all come back and been sealed to our family.

320
00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:15,800
My parents went on a mission to the islands of the Caribbean.

321
00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:21,960
My dad had never had a calling in the church because he would swear too much.

322
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:25,440
And so he became the greeter and his favorite line.

323
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:30,040
Everybody's favorite line was how the hell are you this morning, brother?

324
00:20:30,040 --> 00:20:32,400
And the bishop just worked with him.

325
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:39,400
Then my uncle Rex calls my dad on the phone and says, hey, I need a couple down in Barbados.

326
00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,600
Well, and I need them to get down there right now.

327
00:20:42,600 --> 00:20:45,280
And I need you and Merle, my mom, to go.

328
00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:46,280
His sister.

329
00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:47,640
Yeah, his sister.

330
00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:51,400
And my dad said, well, Rex, I got a little problem.

331
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:54,360
I still have a little problem with tobacco.

332
00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:58,240
And my uncle just said, well, stop it.

333
00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,880
The Lord needs you and he needs you now.

334
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,560
And my dad blesses art.

335
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:04,000
He did.

336
00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:05,160
And they went down there.

337
00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:09,800
He served as branch president of two branches at the same time.

338
00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:17,880
And he would call me on the phone to ask me about how to do certain things.

339
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,560
He would read the handbook, couldn't understand it.

340
00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:23,080
So he would ask me and I got to train my father.

341
00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,040
They came home from their mission.

342
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:26,160
They moved to St. George.

343
00:21:26,160 --> 00:21:29,040
They served 13 years in the St. George temple.

344
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:36,760
Now I ask you and they both died faithful members of the church.

345
00:21:36,760 --> 00:21:43,040
The redeeming blood of Christ changed my family forever.

346
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:50,040
So when my mother passed away, my brother was with me and my younger sister, who has

347
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,440
always been a superstar.

348
00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:55,680
She was just too young to be sealed without being endowed.

349
00:21:55,680 --> 00:21:58,920
And of course, excuse me, she's the one that was with me when we got sealed.

350
00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:03,120
My other sister, who is a wonderful woman, is a hippie in the 60s.

351
00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:07,640
And she's finally came in and she's been on a mission to Sweden and totally active in

352
00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:08,640
the church.

353
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,400
My oldest sister, she's 83.

354
00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,040
She's had three marriages.

355
00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,200
She has four children, four different fathers.

356
00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:20,040
There couldn't be a greater woman on the earth.

357
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:25,640
And I've watched this process that you two talk about every week affect my own family.

358
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:28,280
Well, my brother was the last one.

359
00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,360
He's a recovering alcoholic.

360
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:31,360
This one that lived in Denver?

361
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:32,360
He lived in Denver.

362
00:22:32,360 --> 00:22:33,720
He was a car dealer in Denver.

363
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:37,360
He's been married and divorced seven times.

364
00:22:37,360 --> 00:22:44,480
And he was with my mom when she died with me and my other sister and my wife.

365
00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,520
And my mom just wouldn't go.

366
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:52,480
And my brother finally put his face down by hers and said, mama, just go.

367
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:53,480
And she didn't do anything.

368
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,760
And then he says, am I the reason you don't want to go?

369
00:22:56,760 --> 00:23:00,440
And she just shook her head and said, yeah.

370
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:04,040
And then he said, I promise you I'll do my best to come back.

371
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:07,280
And then she died within a few minutes.

372
00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:11,600
Well, he just called me one day and just said, I'm tired of living like this.

373
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,960
I got to have help.

374
00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:18,760
He'd been sober for quite a while, but still had from alcohol and drugs, but still had

375
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:22,080
other issues he had to work on.

376
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:28,560
And he got divorced, sold everything, sold all of his business, his home, everything

377
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:30,640
he and his wife split.

378
00:23:30,640 --> 00:23:34,680
He moved to a little 55 plus community in American Fork.

379
00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:35,680
Oh, sweet.

380
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:36,680
He's a caveman.

381
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:37,680
He's a caveman.

382
00:23:37,680 --> 00:23:44,560
And he is just, I have to tell the story.

383
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:52,080
Some people, some of your listeners have probably heard me tell it, but he decided, what do

384
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,080
I do?

385
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:54,760
I said, you need to go see your bishop.

386
00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:55,760
And you got to confess everything.

387
00:23:55,760 --> 00:23:57,560
He says, well, I can't confess everything.

388
00:23:57,560 --> 00:23:59,480
I can't remember everything.

389
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,000
So I asked him a simple question.

390
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:02,880
Have you ever murdered anybody?

391
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,920
He said, no, not that I remember.

392
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,560
I said, okay, then just tell your bishop that.

393
00:24:08,560 --> 00:24:12,200
So he goes into the bishop and tells the bishop, and the bishop didn't know what to

394
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:13,200
do.

395
00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:14,560
So he sent him to the stake.

396
00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:15,560
Let's start with that.

397
00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:16,560
Yeah.

398
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:21,480
So we sent him to the stake present and Tom said, could you go with me to see the stake

399
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,480
present?

400
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,480
Could you have been a stake presence?

401
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,560
I said, okay, I will.

402
00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:31,240
And so we get to the stake present and my brother says, I've done everything you can

403
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:35,040
possibly do wrong, but I've never murdered anybody.

404
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,800
And he said, excommunicate me, do whatever it takes.

405
00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:42,760
I just want to come home.

406
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:47,800
And the stake present and his sweetness to simply said, oh, brother Christians, and you

407
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:49,520
don't know enough to be excommunicated.

408
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:54,040
How about if we just work with you for a couple of years and we teach you the missionary lessons

409
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:59,040
and we teach you the temple preparation classes and that type of thing.

410
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:05,760
So that two year period, and this is not by coincidence, is the only two year period where

411
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:11,280
I didn't have some heavy ecclesiastical or professional assignment where I could be with

412
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:13,440
my brother every single day.

413
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:16,280
Well, maybe not every day, but most days.

414
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:18,640
We didn't miss very many in two years.

415
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:20,040
And this was how long ago, Jack?

416
00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:23,520
This was in 2018.

417
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,160
That was divinely designed.

418
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:26,160
It was.

419
00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,160
It was divinely designed.

420
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,200
It was absolutely orchestrated.

421
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:36,000
And so I was able to be with him, teach him, and our uncle Rex was dying.

422
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,080
So all of my siblings and I went up to see him.

423
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:47,320
And as we're talking, and my brother is using all the church jargon, my uncle Rex just said,

424
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,640
stop, stop, stop.

425
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,520
What on earth has happened to you, Tom?

426
00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:54,080
What has brought about this change?

427
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:58,360
And my brother's response was so profound, I have to share it.

428
00:25:58,360 --> 00:26:00,800
He simply said, oh, I don't know.

429
00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:04,360
I just started doing what I've been taught to do my whole life.

430
00:26:04,360 --> 00:26:05,600
And my life changed.

431
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,080
And I came to know my savior.

432
00:26:07,080 --> 00:26:09,200
He said, I started reading scriptures.

433
00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,760
I started praying, started attending church, started paying my tithing.

434
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:16,440
I couldn't serve in the church because of my past for a while, but I could clean the

435
00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,440
church every Saturday morning.

436
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:22,280
And so we would call him some days and say, hey, let's go fishing.

437
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:23,280
Let's go golfing.

438
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:25,960
I can't have got to clean the church.

439
00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:34,720
And so a couple of years ago, well, actually three or four years ago, he got prepared to

440
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:35,720
go to the temple.

441
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:39,840
And my cousin actually, who just lives across the street from where we are right now, Michael

442
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,680
Pinneger, was in the presidency of the Provo Temple.

443
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:48,720
And I was proxy for my dad and my sister was proxy for my mother.

444
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,400
And my cousin performed the ceiling.

445
00:26:51,400 --> 00:27:00,480
And my brother heard these words or similar words as though you had been born in the covenant.

446
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:05,880
And he would no longer felt like he was a second class citizen in the Lord's kingdom.

447
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:06,880
No longer outside.

448
00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:07,880
That's right.

449
00:27:07,880 --> 00:27:08,880
Yeah.

450
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:09,880
That's right.

451
00:27:09,880 --> 00:27:13,960
Well, and those are just some of the, well, Jack, let me ask you about the meat.

452
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:15,280
Let me follow up on that.

453
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:19,880
So how does the atonement really work?

454
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:26,160
I mean, you've alluded to to service your, your, your brother's statement, what he said,

455
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,640
you know, I just started doing everything I'd been taught to do.

456
00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:31,280
You're an example of this.

457
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,000
Your family, your dad's an example, your mom and dad are example of this.

458
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:41,160
It sounds like the atonement of Jesus Christ in their lives was administered as they as

459
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:42,880
they served.

460
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,480
But how does it, how does it really work, Jack?

461
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:52,800
I mean, how, how have you come to the, what have you come to learn as you have watched

462
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:58,080
this about how does the atonement of Jesus Christ really change us?

463
00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,080
How does that work?

464
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:04,160
Well, I'll tell you what I, what I feel, but the spirit seems to agree.

465
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:09,440
So let me go to Alma 34 verse 31.

466
00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,040
It's Amulek's teaching and he's teaching with Alma.

467
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,040
So when Amulek and Alma talk about redemption and atonement, I listen.

468
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,280
Yeah, they're teaching this or am I?

469
00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,400
And they've had to experience it themselves, both of them.

470
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:24,920
Remember, Amulek says, I heard, but I did not hear.

471
00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:25,920
Right.

472
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:26,920
I would not know.

473
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:27,920
I wouldn't know.

474
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:28,920
I knew all these things.

475
00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,920
I knew, but I wouldn't know.

476
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,760
And Alma the younger is going about secretly trying to destroy the church.

477
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:34,760
Right.

478
00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:41,240
And then he has his great grand conversion, which is in the words of Elder Bednar, he

479
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:47,520
says, well, the reason Alma had his experience and excuse me, Paul had his experience and

480
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,640
they didn't have the still small voice like the rest of it is that they were so messed

481
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,880
up, they could never have discerned the still small voice.

482
00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,760
They had to have an angel or the savior come to them because of it.

483
00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:02,360
So when they teach, I listen.

484
00:29:02,360 --> 00:29:07,640
And Amulek says something so profound in Alma 34.

485
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:11,240
He says, yay, I would that you would come forth.

486
00:29:11,240 --> 00:29:18,320
Now, here's the key to everything and harden not your heart any longer.

487
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:19,680
Stop being hard in your heart.

488
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:28,620
Well, so I say to people who have had addiction or have been abused, I say, okay, this whole

489
00:29:28,620 --> 00:29:30,720
thing about forgiving your perpetrator.

490
00:29:30,720 --> 00:29:31,840
All right.

491
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:35,120
Let's say, I know we teach that you need to be forgiven.

492
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:36,720
You need to forgive to be forgiven.

493
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:42,680
However, there are exceptions where what I would ask you is don't harden your heart.

494
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:47,520
Leave a little hole in your heart so that when the forgiveness does come, there's a

495
00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:51,280
place for it to go rather than ricochet off your hardened heart.

496
00:29:51,280 --> 00:29:53,640
It'll seep into that little hole.

497
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:58,720
And then he says, for behold, now is the time in the day of your salvation.

498
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:05,720
And therefore, if you will repent and harden not your hearts, there it is again.

499
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:06,720
What's the next word?

500
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:07,720
Wow.

501
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:08,720
Immediately.

502
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:12,600
Immediately shall the great plan of redemption be brought about under you.

503
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:16,600
The minute you bend your knees, immediately, the minute you open the scriptures, the minute

504
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:24,560
you seek help, the minute you try immediately, the atonement is working in your life.

505
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:30,160
You don't have to wait until you're this good or that, you know, it starts immediately.

506
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:37,520
And you are beginning to be healed in your anger, your bitterness, your heartbreak, your

507
00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:45,000
disillusionment, your guilt, you know, as Dr. Christensen, I just don't think that guilt

508
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,080
is a bad thing.

509
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,120
I think it's a gift.

510
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,120
I think it is a gift.

511
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,120
I think it's a gift.

512
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:52,120
I do too.

513
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:53,880
Pain is pain can be a gift.

514
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:54,880
Absolutely.

515
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:55,880
Absolutely.

516
00:30:55,880 --> 00:30:58,600
Because that's how you know.

517
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,560
It's like when people approach me and they're all angry about something they read about

518
00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:04,880
Joseph Smith, I ask a couple of things.

519
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:07,320
Well, first of all, by their fruit, she shall know them.

520
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,320
What is Galatians 5?

521
00:31:08,320 --> 00:31:11,000
Let's not even go to LDS Latter-day Scripture.

522
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:13,240
Let's go to Galatians, the Apostle Paul.

523
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,720
And what does he say the fruits of the Spirit are?

524
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:17,120
Love, joy, peace.

525
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,440
Is that what you felt when you read that about Joseph Smith?

526
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:20,440
Yeah.

527
00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:21,440
No, I got angry and I'm mad.

528
00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:22,440
They lied to me.

529
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:24,200
I said, Oh, what does that tell you?

530
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,600
It's not true.

531
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:27,960
The Spirit does not act that way.

532
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:33,120
And so when you read the truth, the minute you see the truth about yourself, you just

533
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:43,160
have to realize that the Atonement, the grace of Jesus Christ, his forgiveness, his love

534
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:46,760
begins immediately the second you try.

535
00:31:46,760 --> 00:31:49,240
And I think too often we think, well, I'm not good enough.

536
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:50,240
I've done this.

537
00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:51,240
I've done that.

538
00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:53,160
I've come to the club.

539
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:58,320
Most of us have things in our lives that we struggle with that we wish we didn't have.

540
00:31:58,320 --> 00:32:05,480
I have to deal with anger and with frustration towards some people who falsely accused me.

541
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:08,440
And they didn't have all, they didn't gather all the information.

542
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,880
They thought they did.

543
00:32:10,880 --> 00:32:13,600
And I've tried to reconcile with them and they won't.

544
00:32:13,600 --> 00:32:15,880
And it's hard.

545
00:32:15,880 --> 00:32:17,440
But this much I know.

546
00:32:17,440 --> 00:32:25,800
The minute I bend my knee and I ask Father in the name of Jesus Christ, I got to be healed.

547
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:26,800
I can't have this.

548
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:27,800
I'm a patriarch.

549
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,040
I have to give a blessing.

550
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:33,120
I have to eliminate all contention in my life, all of it.

551
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,720
I have to eliminate all fear, as you know, David.

552
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:36,720
Right.

553
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:40,280
And section 67 is so clear.

554
00:32:40,280 --> 00:32:41,560
You got to get rid of your jealousies.

555
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,600
You got to get rid of your fears.

556
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:45,600
And you got to be humble.

557
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:46,760
Well, how do you do that?

558
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:48,240
You have to ask.

559
00:32:48,240 --> 00:32:53,920
Well, section 10, verse 21, the Savior says about the people who stole the lost manuscript.

560
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,080
Their whole problem is they won't ask me.

561
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:05,160
So the instant you start to ask, to pray, to search, to not doubt, but ask all the questions

562
00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:06,160
you want.

563
00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:07,160
But don't doubt.

564
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:14,880
So, Jack, is it as simple as just looking to the brazen serpent?

565
00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,040
But that's what makes it so difficult.

566
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:19,040
It's so easy.

567
00:33:19,040 --> 00:33:20,840
Is it that simple, really?

568
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:22,760
Well, for me, it is.

569
00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,480
I love the term that, you know, Alma uses the term snatched.

570
00:33:26,480 --> 00:33:27,480
Yes.

571
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:31,360
I love that term, that he was snatched.

572
00:33:31,360 --> 00:33:38,800
You know, I just, we've talked about that on this podcast so many times that if we would

573
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,920
just look, if you just look to God and live.

574
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,280
You know, if we just tried to keep the commandment, to look unto me.

575
00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:50,040
Look unto me in every thought.

576
00:33:50,040 --> 00:33:55,480
Now I know that's a work of a higher order.

577
00:33:55,480 --> 00:34:00,280
But just the effort, just the effort to do that.

578
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:01,280
Amen.

579
00:34:01,280 --> 00:34:04,040
In fact, go to 1st Nephi 1511.

580
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,320
Look at what Nephi says.

581
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:14,200
Now this is right in the, he is trying to deal with his brothers and the dream.

582
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:17,120
He's interpreting the dream for his brothers.

583
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:23,520
And so he says in verse 11, which I believe, and in my way of thinking, this is as powerful

584
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:32,480
as Moroni 10, 4, and 5, and as powerful as ask, and ye shall receive, seek, and ye shall

585
00:34:32,480 --> 00:34:33,480
find.

586
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,280
So it reads, Do ye not remember the things?

587
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:38,000
Which the Lord has said.

588
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:39,240
Okay, stop.

589
00:34:39,240 --> 00:34:44,800
So when you have an issue, whether it's social issue, whether it's gender, whatever it is.

590
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:45,800
What did you forget?

591
00:34:45,800 --> 00:34:47,640
What has the Lord said about this?

592
00:34:47,640 --> 00:34:48,640
And where will you find that?

593
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:49,640
What did you forget?

594
00:34:49,640 --> 00:34:50,640
Yes, scriptures.

595
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:51,640
Why do you not remember?

596
00:34:51,640 --> 00:34:52,640
Yeah, okay, go ahead.

597
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:54,080
How can we remember?

598
00:34:54,080 --> 00:34:55,360
Remember, remember.

599
00:34:55,360 --> 00:35:00,600
And Nephi goes on, If ye will not harden your hearts, ask me in faith.

600
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:01,600
Okay, stop.

601
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,280
So there it is again.

602
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:04,760
Don't harden your heart.

603
00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:05,760
This is so stupid.

604
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:07,520
I've been hurt by this person.

605
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:08,520
I've done this.

606
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:09,520
Yeah, I know.

607
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:10,520
We all have.

608
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:11,520
You just don't know it.

609
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,480
All of us carry wounds that we don't let everybody see.

610
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:16,720
How do we do that?

611
00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,320
How do you not harden your heart?

612
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,680
Well, I think this is how you not harden it is the very next line.

613
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,000
Ask me in faith.

614
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,400
Ask me in faith believing that ye shall receive.

615
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,400
Just trust me enough.

616
00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:30,640
Just ask me.

617
00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:31,640
Believe you'll get an answer.

618
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,720
And then the hard part is the next one.

619
00:35:35,720 --> 00:35:39,760
believing that ye shall receive with diligence in keeping my commandments.

620
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Now, there's the problem.

621
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:48,040
It's about keeping commandments because we don't want anybody to tell us what to do.

622
00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,240
And I find that so ironic.

623
00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:52,440
We'll come back and finish that verse in a moment.

624
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:58,040
All our lives we want to be free from our parents telling us everything to do.

625
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:02,040
And then when our heavenly parent, who's a perfect parent, far better than our earthly

626
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,960
parents says, Well, you can make that decision on your own.

627
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:07,960
I trust you.

628
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:08,960
Oh, it's not true.

629
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:13,960
Then I'm going to I'm going to quit because I didn't get that answer when I wanted it.

630
00:36:13,960 --> 00:36:18,200
Well, yeah, you know, he loves us.

631
00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:19,960
And then he says, What's the last thing in there?

632
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:26,120
It says, If you'll do those things, surely these things shall be made known unto you.

633
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:27,200
I know it's true.

634
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:28,720
And I love the word surely.

635
00:36:28,720 --> 00:36:29,720
Surely.

636
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:31,560
It's a fact.

637
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:34,760
You remember what the Lord said, Don't harden your heart.

638
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,760
Ask me in faith.

639
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:36,760
Believe you get an answer.

640
00:36:36,760 --> 00:36:40,600
Try to your best to keep the commandments and learn to repent all the time.

641
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,880
I repent all the time.

642
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:45,400
Yeah, we all should.

643
00:36:45,400 --> 00:36:51,360
I was driving a few days ago and I nearly hit a guy because he just stopped right in

644
00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:54,200
front of me to turn into Macy's.

645
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,160
And I you jerk.

646
00:36:57,160 --> 00:36:59,960
And I immediately I said, Wait a minute.

647
00:36:59,960 --> 00:37:02,720
I'm giving a patriarchal blessing in two days.

648
00:37:02,720 --> 00:37:03,720
Right.

649
00:37:03,720 --> 00:37:05,680
Heavenly Father, I am so sorry.

650
00:37:05,680 --> 00:37:07,480
I am the jerk.

651
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:08,480
Please forgive me.

652
00:37:08,480 --> 00:37:10,840
I'll do all I can to never let that happen again.

653
00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:15,520
And I think one of the things with with the atonement is, is we need to learn from Brigham

654
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:16,960
Young.

655
00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:22,200
He said, I never performed a priesthood ordinance that I was not worthy.

656
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:25,880
Well, when I first read that, I thought I'm the lost.

657
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,880
I have that lots of times.

658
00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,040
But then he describes how to do it.

659
00:37:30,040 --> 00:37:38,000
He said, I go before the Lord and I say this, Father, please cleanse me through the holy

660
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:39,680
blood of the lamb.

661
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,600
And I will try never to do this again with all my heart.

662
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:44,120
I'll try.

663
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,840
But please cleanse me through the holy blood of the lamb.

664
00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:53,160
And if there's anything else I need to repent of before I get up off my knees, well, I'll

665
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:54,960
bring it to my mind right now.

666
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:58,040
Otherwise, I will consider this matter closed.

667
00:37:58,040 --> 00:38:01,320
He says, I just get up and go do it.

668
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,800
And if it's not a major transgression that would affect your membership in the church

669
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:09,360
that you need your help from your priesthood leaders, then I think we need to get over

670
00:38:09,360 --> 00:38:13,080
ourselves and just say, Heavenly Father, I'm going to try never to do that again.

671
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:18,240
And then if we if we mess up, always remember what Elder Scott and Elder Renland have taught

672
00:38:18,240 --> 00:38:22,840
us that there's a major difference between human weakness and open rebellion.

673
00:38:22,840 --> 00:38:24,080
Yeah, we just talked about.

674
00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:25,080
We talked about that.

675
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:26,080
Yeah, last episode.

676
00:38:26,080 --> 00:38:28,360
Well, you have to keep going because this is good.

677
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:30,080
You're following up on what we just talked about.

678
00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:32,440
I just can't get over how important that is.

679
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:33,440
Okay.

680
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,800
So you drop back in, you fall off the wagon.

681
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,240
Does that mean you're lost?

682
00:38:38,240 --> 00:38:39,240
No.

683
00:38:39,240 --> 00:38:40,240
Yeah.

684
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:44,240
You just immediately, the second you bend your knees, the second you try, the second

685
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:48,640
you resist, see as Louis said, nobody knows about temptation till they resist it.

686
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:49,640
Yeah.

687
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:50,640
It's true.

688
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:51,640
Right.

689
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:54,280
And that's why you know about temptation if you've never had to resist it.

690
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,240
That's why Jesus knew more about temptation than anybody.

691
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:58,320
Than we'll ever know about.

692
00:38:58,320 --> 00:38:59,320
That's right.

693
00:38:59,320 --> 00:39:00,800
Because he resisted it every single time.

694
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:01,800
We give into it.

695
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:03,120
And you faced all of it.

696
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,120
All of it.

697
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:05,520
Everything that you and I face.

698
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,600
All our temptations, all our infirmities, everything that says the effect of the fall

699
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:12,680
of Adam and Eve, Jesus Christ felt that.

700
00:39:12,680 --> 00:39:13,920
That's right.

701
00:39:13,920 --> 00:39:22,120
And so what we have to do is get over all of the social talk, the senseless, ceaseless

702
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:28,920
talking of the world about why you shouldn't do this or why you should just do you and

703
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,640
don't, well, how about let's do what the Savior wants us to do.

704
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,520
Once you know he's real, why do I keep the commandments for one simple reason?

705
00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:38,960
I just love him.

706
00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:39,960
Yeah.

707
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,600
And you and I have talked about this, David.

708
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:44,440
You love, casteth out all fear.

709
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:45,440
Perfect love.

710
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:46,440
Cast out all fear.

711
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,800
Well, go back just a minute.

712
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:52,520
So it's not just the social stuff they hear, Jack.

713
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:53,520
It's the accuser.

714
00:39:53,520 --> 00:39:54,520
Oh.

715
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:55,520
You know, it's...

716
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:56,520
Revelation 12.

717
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:57,840
Worse than that, it's the accuser.

718
00:39:57,840 --> 00:39:58,840
That's right.

719
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:00,280
In fact, Joseph Smith taught.

720
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:05,400
He didn't teach them all at one time, but through his ministry, he taught, there are four things

721
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,240
we should never do.

722
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:08,240
Four things.

723
00:40:08,240 --> 00:40:15,480
Now there are, my personal formula for what you should do is every day, scriptures, prayer,

724
00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:18,920
prophets, service, temple.

725
00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:20,160
Then I've added two others.

726
00:40:20,160 --> 00:40:27,360
Are they beautiful music and study church history from legitimate sources?

727
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:29,240
Not at everything on the internet.

728
00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:30,800
Go to legitimate sources.

729
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,520
But Joseph taught four things we should never do if we want to have the spirit.

730
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,960
Number one, we never aspire.

731
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:40,920
What was Satan's big deal?

732
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,160
He aspired to be God.

733
00:40:43,160 --> 00:40:44,160
Yeah.

734
00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:46,880
He sought excellence, Joseph Smith said.

735
00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:47,880
Yeah.

736
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,680
And you go to Alvin Babbit in section 124, verse 84.

737
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:52,960
Yeah, the golden calf.

738
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:53,960
Yeah.

739
00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:54,960
He wanted to...

740
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:56,800
He didn't want to follow the prophet.

741
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,880
He aspired to be the one that would make decisions.

742
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:00,880
In church, yeah.

743
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:01,880
Okay.

744
00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:02,880
So never aspire.

745
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,200
Number two, never accuse.

746
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,720
What is Satan's main MO?

747
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:07,720
Yeah.

748
00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:08,720
He's the accuser.

749
00:41:08,720 --> 00:41:09,720
That's his title.

750
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:10,720
That's his title.

751
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:11,720
Day and night.

752
00:41:11,720 --> 00:41:12,720
That's right.

753
00:41:12,720 --> 00:41:13,720
Number three, never contend.

754
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,960
What does it say in 30...

755
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,720
President Nelson just gave a talk about that, right?

756
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:19,720
Yeah.

757
00:41:19,720 --> 00:41:22,840
And contention, Satan is the father of contention.

758
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:26,200
Who stireth up the hearts of men to contend with anger one against another.

759
00:41:26,200 --> 00:41:30,840
Behold, I say unto you, this is not my doctrine, but this is my doctrine.

760
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,160
Christ says that all these things, such things should be done away.

761
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:39,440
And I think, Jack, much of that contention in anger is because of fear.

762
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:40,440
Oh, absolutely.

763
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:44,560
You know, you got angry at the guy the other day because you were afraid.

764
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:45,560
Yeah, I almost...

765
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:46,560
Yeah.

766
00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:47,560
It could have cost him his life for me.

767
00:41:47,560 --> 00:41:48,560
No, I know.

768
00:41:48,560 --> 00:41:49,560
I know.

769
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:51,040
I think fear is the source of most contention.

770
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:52,600
I agree.

771
00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:53,600
So that's the third.

772
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:54,720
Do not contend.

773
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:59,360
And the fourth is never course.

774
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,640
And remember, in Moses chapter four...

775
00:42:01,640 --> 00:42:02,640
Never course or force.

776
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:06,360
But Satan, what was the battle about?

777
00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:09,840
He tried to take away the agency of man.

778
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:14,800
Well, I think one way he did that, Jack, was not so much he was going to force to keep

779
00:42:14,800 --> 00:42:16,920
the commandments because I don't think he had any desire...

780
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:18,320
He had any intention to keep them.

781
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:23,240
He had no desire to have anything about commandments.

782
00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:27,760
He was going to coerce us or force us by taking away accountability.

783
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:28,760
That's all right.

784
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:30,440
I'll save you no matter what.

785
00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:31,440
That's right.

786
00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,960
I'll save you even if you don't want to be saved and you don't have to do anything.

787
00:42:34,960 --> 00:42:36,200
That's right.

788
00:42:36,200 --> 00:42:40,560
And my personal feeling is, and maybe I shouldn't say this, I don't want him to come after me,

789
00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:42,160
which he always does anyway.

790
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:49,040
And by the way, just wait until if you would become a patriarch or a patriarch's spouse.

791
00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,040
You're attacked.

792
00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Yes, you're attacked more than anything I've ever done.

793
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:57,920
I've done everything you can do in the church except be a member of the Twelve, which I

794
00:42:57,920 --> 00:43:00,040
never want.

795
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:01,040
But I'll tell you this.

796
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:02,320
I've never been worked on harder.

797
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:07,800
I hated the state conference and I hate to admit that because a couple of weeks before

798
00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:10,160
and after I had all these talks.

799
00:43:10,160 --> 00:43:11,320
This is when you were state president.

800
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:12,320
Yes.

801
00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:14,440
I was just brutally beat up.

802
00:43:14,440 --> 00:43:21,360
And I tell people, you be careful what you ask for because I don't think you realize.

803
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:28,000
So but a statement I've always used is if you're being beat up, just remember this,

804
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,920
Satan don't kick no dead dogs.

805
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,800
Yeah, it's kind of a good sign.

806
00:43:31,800 --> 00:43:38,240
And I used to tell my students, you know, the closer you get to Jesus, the harder it

807
00:43:38,240 --> 00:43:43,920
gets in the more your sins and weaknesses even look loom larger.

808
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:44,920
They look larger.

809
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:50,160
They, you know, if you're feeling adversity in your life, then you know you're doing

810
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:51,160
something right.

811
00:43:51,160 --> 00:43:52,160
That's right.

812
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:57,120
And James teaches us that if we will resist the devil, he'll flee from us.

813
00:43:57,120 --> 00:43:59,800
Now he'll be back.

814
00:43:59,800 --> 00:44:00,800
For sure.

815
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:01,800
But with his buddies.

816
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:02,800
But he'll leave.

817
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:05,360
And I even sometimes I never cease.

818
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,160
Sorry, I get emotional.

819
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:08,880
I don't mean to.

820
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,080
I call upon the name of Jesus Christ whenever I need to.

821
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:14,440
I'll cast out evil spirits.

822
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,680
I don't care.

823
00:44:15,680 --> 00:44:16,760
I am not going to give in.

824
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,200
I don't want to give any place for Satan in my life.

825
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,520
I know what power he has.

826
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:28,760
President Packer said I will not consent to any influence from the adversary.

827
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:30,920
Well, I love the Savior.

828
00:44:30,920 --> 00:44:32,760
That's why I live the Word of wisdom.

829
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:33,760
I love the Savior.

830
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,040
That's why I want to live the law of chastity.

831
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:37,280
I love the Savior.

832
00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,600
That's why I want to pay tithing.

833
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,160
It's not a big deal to me.

834
00:44:41,160 --> 00:44:42,160
I just love him.

835
00:44:42,160 --> 00:44:43,160
Thanks for everything.

836
00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,480
Boy, what is 10% Yeah, right.

837
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:48,200
And I have needed help in the past.

838
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:49,200
I don't mind.

839
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:51,320
I love to pay fast offering.

840
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,760
Well it's it's out of love and it's also out of gratitude.

841
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,000
We've talked about that gratitude.

842
00:44:56,000 --> 00:45:00,120
Gratitude is the beginning of desire by the way, that's from Ed Pinninger.

843
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,160
Yeah, gratitude is the beginning of desire.

844
00:45:04,160 --> 00:45:10,440
Gratitude is a is an attitude that just really makes a difference in our life and our ability

845
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:11,440
to change.

846
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:12,440
I try.

847
00:45:12,440 --> 00:45:14,560
Well, share with us some more examples Jack.

848
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:15,560
I will.

849
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:21,560
Let me say one of the individuals and and not just what they did, but how okay the how

850
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:24,240
the Savior changed them.

851
00:45:24,240 --> 00:45:26,920
Well, let me or you say this.

852
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:32,200
I think it's important that our listeners realize that when you keep the commandments, when

853
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:36,440
you strive with all your heart to serve the Lord, it doesn't mean that all your problems

854
00:45:36,440 --> 00:45:38,120
will go away.

855
00:45:38,120 --> 00:45:43,640
But it gives you the foundation and the vision and the heart to deal with them.

856
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:45,280
Yeah, and the reservoir of faith.

857
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:46,280
That's right.

858
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:50,400
Parenting, marriage, all sorts of things.

859
00:45:50,400 --> 00:45:51,840
It's a matter of the heart.

860
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:52,840
Right.

861
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:53,840
Where's your heart?

862
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:54,840
For sure.

863
00:45:54,840 --> 00:46:00,680
And that and that takes spirituality is only gained by making it present.

864
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:06,720
Oak said by making a succession of correct choice choices over long periods of time.

865
00:46:06,720 --> 00:46:07,960
Small and simple.

866
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:09,120
And be patient.

867
00:46:09,120 --> 00:46:10,360
Be patient.

868
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:11,600
You're not going to hell.

869
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:12,600
Just keep trying.

870
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,600
Yeah.

871
00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:19,320
Let me give you one that we talked about just a little bit before when Scott told me the

872
00:46:19,320 --> 00:46:26,080
story of a man that that came over and told him that that I love you.

873
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:28,240
And this is when Scott was just three.

874
00:46:28,240 --> 00:46:30,240
Yeah, Scott was coming back.

875
00:46:30,240 --> 00:46:31,240
Let me let me.

876
00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:34,560
So let me just kind of preface this and then I'll let you please let you jump in from there.

877
00:46:34,560 --> 00:46:39,520
So when when Deb and I first moved into this house, the one that we're in right now, it

878
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,800
was about 17 or 18 ish years ago.

879
00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,760
And I my membership had been lifted, which was a great blessing.

880
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:48,760
And we've talked about that.

881
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,160
But my membership had been lifted and I had a little bit of a chip on my shoulder at that

882
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:53,560
time.

883
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:56,880
And we moved in here and you know how things go.

884
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:04,040
The the elders corn president wanted to meet with me and I I reluctantly agreed and went

885
00:47:04,040 --> 00:47:08,800
and the first thing he said to me when I got there and I love this man today, when I first

886
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:13,880
got there, Alan McNeil said to me, he said, Scott, I just want you to know that we love

887
00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:14,880
you.

888
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:17,440
How much we absolutely love you.

889
00:47:17,440 --> 00:47:21,480
And that just rubbed me wrong because of the chip on my shoulder.

890
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:22,520
My heart wasn't soft.

891
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,920
My shoulder had a big chip on it.

892
00:47:24,920 --> 00:47:25,920
And I just got up.

893
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:27,880
I said, you don't know me.

894
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:29,400
Don't tell me that until you know me.

895
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:30,400
And I left.

896
00:47:30,400 --> 00:47:33,080
Well, here it is 17 years ish later.

897
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:37,680
A couple years ago, I was called to be the elders corn president in this same ward.

898
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:44,600
And it almost immediately, Jack, when when I got set apart and I was going through the

899
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:50,280
list on the website of the elders in our ward and some of them I didn't know.

900
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:57,680
And I loved them and I felt this great, enduring, powerful love just enveloped me, which you

901
00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,840
didn't just decide you were going to do.

902
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:03,240
It's not beyond your ability.

903
00:48:03,240 --> 00:48:06,840
Well, not only beyond my ability, but it was even beyond my intentions.

904
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,040
I hadn't even considered that.

905
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:10,040
It wasn't even something.

906
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:11,760
In fact, it's a gift.

907
00:48:11,760 --> 00:48:18,040
In fact, this this experience with Brother McNeil had left my mind until almost that

908
00:48:18,040 --> 00:48:19,040
time.

909
00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,360
And so here I am sitting in this very office that we're in and I'm going through that and

910
00:48:22,360 --> 00:48:26,200
I feel that and I just needed to go see Alan.

911
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:33,160
And I said, Alan, I owe you a huge men's 15 ish plus years later, because I know now

912
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,720
that love that you expressed to me.

913
00:48:35,720 --> 00:48:40,000
And he just smiled, you know, gave me a big hug and and all that.

914
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:42,720
So that was that's kind of the beginning of that story, Jack.

915
00:48:42,720 --> 00:48:48,360
Well, and I I almost hesitate because I haven't received his permission to share this.

916
00:48:48,360 --> 00:48:54,560
But then at our 40 year class reunion, which was held two years early because they were

917
00:48:54,560 --> 00:48:59,920
demolishing our high school, I had been called and I was leaving a month later to be the

918
00:48:59,920 --> 00:49:03,320
mission president of the New York Rochester Mission.

919
00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:08,640
And after our meeting and after our dinner and everything, Brother McNeil took me aside

920
00:49:08,640 --> 00:49:13,280
and shared with me some of the feelings he had had because of something I had said and

921
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:16,040
done when we were in high school.

922
00:49:16,040 --> 00:49:19,040
And he was absolutely justified.

923
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:20,200
I was I was wrong.

924
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:21,200
Just something stupid.

925
00:49:21,200 --> 00:49:23,120
Just something stupid, not to anyone particularly.

926
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:26,680
I just told a story about some things.

927
00:49:26,680 --> 00:49:30,320
And I was on the Seminary Council in high school on my senior year.

928
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:34,320
And it was totally inappropriate for the leader of the Seminary or a leader of the Seminary

929
00:49:34,320 --> 00:49:36,700
to say something like that.

930
00:49:36,700 --> 00:49:41,600
So Alan felt bad that, OK, well, maybe I shouldn't go to seminary.

931
00:49:41,600 --> 00:49:43,880
That's the kind of guy that's leading it.

932
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:51,440
And then he struggled with feelings about a mission because of me.

933
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:59,040
And now at 40 years later, he's telling me begging begging me to forgive him.

934
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,280
And I said, and I wish everyone could have been there.

935
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,880
I had my arms around the back of his head and he has his around mine and we're forehead

936
00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:08,880
to forehead.

937
00:50:08,880 --> 00:50:11,200
And I don't care what anybody thought.

938
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:13,600
Two big grown men crying.

939
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:14,600
Football players.

940
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:15,600
He was great.

941
00:50:15,600 --> 00:50:18,000
He was our linebacker and I was the quarterback.

942
00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:19,840
And it came to me.

943
00:50:19,840 --> 00:50:24,240
I said, just think of what we've just learned from each other.

944
00:50:24,240 --> 00:50:26,280
I said, I beg your forgiveness.

945
00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:32,720
I said, I didn't understand what it meant to be a priesthood holder when I was 17.

946
00:50:32,720 --> 00:50:34,160
I didn't get it.

947
00:50:34,160 --> 00:50:39,840
And I beg your forgiveness and you didn't have to wait 40 years.

948
00:50:39,840 --> 00:50:41,080
So look at what we've learned.

949
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:46,400
If you had come to me sooner and I had known and you had known, we both could have saved

950
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:52,880
ourselves a lot of pain because the Savior knows our hearts.

951
00:50:52,880 --> 00:51:02,680
And to this day, I every time I see him or his lovely wife, I have the most sweet, beautiful,

952
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:07,240
loving, healed feelings that one could possibly have.

953
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:09,840
And I believe he has those for me as well.

954
00:51:09,840 --> 00:51:10,840
For sure.

955
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:14,000
Can I mention one real quick?

956
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:24,760
My daughter who is divorced, a single mother with four children, she could have given up

957
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:26,160
when everything that happened.

958
00:51:26,160 --> 00:51:28,840
It's just been a disaster.

959
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:35,760
But what she has done is just said, no, I choose to believe.

960
00:51:35,760 --> 00:51:40,000
I choose to be faithful no matter what's happened to me.

961
00:51:40,000 --> 00:51:41,680
She's working on a master's degree.

962
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:42,840
She's working full time.

963
00:51:42,840 --> 00:51:44,560
She's trying to raise these kids.

964
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:46,240
She's the gospel doctrine teacher.

965
00:51:46,240 --> 00:51:52,200
I share this because she has been such an example of the very thing you talk about in

966
00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:56,560
this podcast that she just said, okay, and does she get discouraged?

967
00:51:56,560 --> 00:51:57,560
Of course.

968
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,120
Does she want to quit at times?

969
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:01,120
Of course.

970
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:06,840
But the whole point is I choose to be a disciple of Jesus Christ and I'm going to put my discipleship

971
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:10,840
of the Savior above everyone and everything else in my life.

972
00:52:10,840 --> 00:52:14,560
And as a result, it has saved her.

973
00:52:14,560 --> 00:52:16,920
That's the bottom line, Jack.

974
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:17,920
Yeah, that's right.

975
00:52:17,920 --> 00:52:18,920
It's saved.

976
00:52:18,920 --> 00:52:19,920
It's a relationship.

977
00:52:19,920 --> 00:52:20,920
That's right.

978
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:21,920
With the Savior.

979
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:27,520
If all of us would just everything he's asked us to do, all the commandments, all the covenants,

980
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:34,920
everything about the temple, anything that we can have a closer relationship with him.

981
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:35,920
That's right.

982
00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:37,040
And with our father.

983
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:38,400
Yeah, absolutely.

984
00:52:38,400 --> 00:52:39,400
Be connected.

985
00:52:39,400 --> 00:52:40,400
Be bound.

986
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:44,160
And the Holy Ghost will be with us even though we think it's not.

987
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:51,520
Always remember 3rd Nephi 920 where the Lamanites had the Holy Ghost and they knew it not.

988
00:52:51,520 --> 00:52:55,720
And Sidney Reagan in section 35, the Lord was using him all the time and he didn't even

989
00:52:55,720 --> 00:52:57,720
know it.

990
00:52:57,720 --> 00:53:01,080
I just want to thank each of you for this privilege.

991
00:53:01,080 --> 00:53:02,960
I know the things we've talked about are true.

992
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,800
I know the Savior lives and he redeems us through his holy blood.

993
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:08,880
And I say that in the name of Jesus Christ.

994
00:53:08,880 --> 00:53:09,880
Amen.

995
00:53:09,880 --> 00:53:10,880
Amen.

996
00:53:10,880 --> 00:53:11,880
Jack, thank you.

997
00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:13,480
We didn't have enough time.

998
00:53:13,480 --> 00:53:20,400
I wanted to hear the story about the missionary story that you told me a long time ago.

999
00:53:20,400 --> 00:53:22,200
I haven't written down here, but I didn't get it.

1000
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:24,120
Maybe I can come back and tell it.

1001
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:25,120
Would you?

1002
00:53:25,120 --> 00:53:26,120
Oh, we'd love that.

1003
00:53:26,120 --> 00:53:33,560
If you'd come back, we could hear a few more stories that I know that our listeners not

1004
00:53:33,560 --> 00:53:35,600
only would love to hear, but they need to hear.

1005
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:42,560
So it's always so great to be with you, Jack, and talk the Gospel and see the light in Jack's

1006
00:53:42,560 --> 00:53:50,720
eyes and feel the conviction in his voice and to witness over the years as I have the

1007
00:53:50,720 --> 00:53:52,640
goodness of his heart.

1008
00:53:52,640 --> 00:53:54,000
So thank you so much, Jack.

1009
00:53:54,000 --> 00:53:55,600
Sure, love and appreciate you.

1010
00:53:55,600 --> 00:53:56,600
Thank you.

1011
00:53:56,600 --> 00:53:59,200
You're your dear friend.

1012
00:53:59,200 --> 00:54:01,240
Thanks so much for being with us, Jack.

1013
00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:05,880
Thanks, David, for your insights and questions, etc.

1014
00:54:05,880 --> 00:54:13,120
We hope that you have absolutely felt the redeeming love and the the through the Holy

1015
00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:20,120
Ghost, the cleansing power that comes to us through a knowledge of getting to know him

1016
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:25,440
of having the ability, having our desires increase as our gratitude grows.

1017
00:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,280
And I think that, Jack, what you've done to us is given us a deeper gratitude.

1018
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:36,680
You know, your insights have definitely imposed on me a deeper gratitude with that comes a

1019
00:54:36,680 --> 00:54:39,360
greater desire with that desire comes.

1020
00:54:39,360 --> 00:54:44,240
Hopefully, if I'll act on that desire, which I commit to do even a deeper desire discipleship

1021
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:47,240
in following our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

1022
00:54:47,240 --> 00:54:48,880
Thanks for being with us, Jack and Dave.

1023
00:54:48,880 --> 00:54:50,880
Thanks for being with us, everybody else.

1024
00:54:50,880 --> 00:54:53,480
We look forward to being with you again next week.

1025
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,240
And remember that you have been redeemed through his blood.

1026
00:54:57,240 --> 00:55:19,400
We'll see you next week.