Hey there everybody welcome back to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
This is Scott Durfee joined as always by the one and only Dave Durfee.
What's up Dave?
Hello Scott I'm enjoying our conversations the last few we've had.
You know I think this part of our course on repentance and forgiveness is something
that I personally need so much help with that it just seems so relevant and I always love
it when we can talk about this because it gives me so much personally to work on.
I mean this is kind of the meat and potatoes or where the rubber hits the road or however
I don't know our listeners want to see it but this is really kind of the bottom line.
I know we call forgiving others and forgiving ourselves as a manifestation of our repentance
but it's also really kind of the bottom line of our repentance is the gift, the gift it
is a gift to be able to forgive ourselves and to forgive our others.
A gift from God, a gift that comes to us through the Holy Ghost.
So it's just I just always love reviewing this for my own personal sake and benefit
and I hope it's blessing others who may be listening.
Definitely a benefit to me as well.
I think last episode I shared a personal experience that I had in being slow or feeling like it
was slow to forgive and you know this is something for me too and I think it has pretty much
universal application here.
This is something that is difficult for me on several levels and depending on the situation
it can be more difficult or less difficult and depending on the person to whom I need
to extend forgiveness it can be more difficult or less difficult and you know there's, you
know we talked earlier I think that there's some categories, we don't really love using
that word but there's some things that I think that you helped me to be able to understand
that we can help us in our forgiveness process here and that's really about the way that
we forgive.
You know why is it that for some of us sometimes it's easy for us to forgive others but not
ourselves.
You know and there's so many other things.
I can think of individuals that fit that description.
Yeah.
I've been that person.
They forgive everybody except themselves.
I've been that person before.
I don't know if I ever have.
I think I have.
Yeah.
I think I have.
And you know and we'll get into this you know there's a couple of things that come into
this shame and guilt and you know we get back to the old payoff.
There's some payoffs sometimes to not forgive ourselves too.
You know.
Well let's, so for example if I'm not forgiving myself, if I abase myself then you know through
that putting myself down I think it kind of relieves me of some responsibility.
Some responsibility to step up.
What was me?
Yeah.
Definitely.
Or maybe even some responsibility to respond to some feelings that I've had for service
or leadership or teaching or whatever the case may be.
You know because it lulls me away.
Again we get back to that.
That scripture in 2nd Nephi 28 you know it lulls me away into carnal security.
That is carnal security sometimes to feel hey I'm just so far broken.
I don't know if I'll ever be able to forgive myself.
Yeah okay.
So there's that group.
What's another one?
So let's read number one.
Number one is it's easy for me to forgive myself but it's a little more difficult for
me to forgive others.
That's the first one.
The second one.
It's really hard for somebody.
It's really I'm just going to use the I mean I put it all in I form.
It's really it's really difficult for me to forgive others but I can forgive myself really
easily.
That's the second one.
Yeah.
And I see people who do that.
I think that's a little bit of a form of self-righteousness.
Yeah.
Right?
Yeah.
Pride.
The pride that you know not seeing our own sins.
You know not seeing our own wretchedness as Nephi puts it is a problem for many and as
a result they see the huge this is the beam and the the beam and the the moat.
The moat right?
That's right.
That Jesus describes.
Yeah that's a problem for me and for I think many others.
Yeah I think you know you and I have talked both there's a guy at Floss Furtby way you
see Terry Warner who developed this program he started the Arbinger group and a lot of
what is talked about in there is how we see each other.
Yeah.
That's what it really boils down to do we see each other as people or do we see each
other as objects or do we see each other as insignificant or indifferent.
It really comes down to and in the objects there's a kind of.
Fire it.
Exactly.
You know.
Yeah and there's a couple of things in the objects we can see people as vehicles you
know where we use people to get us to get things done or we see them as obstacles where
they stand as barriers in us wanting to receive what we want to receive and I think a lot of
that mindset comes into that why is it difficult for me to forgive not just myself but others
but maybe even more others because you know and they use in that program in the Arbinger
group they use they use words like horrible eyes you know I horrible eyes what others
have done and I and I what's the word for what I've done I extol my eyes or I extol
virtues that aren't there or or or or make them bigger than than they really really
are you know and I have a way of we have a way as humans of kind of being able to do
all that too.
So that's another one you know slow to forgive others but it's easy to forgive myself.
Okay third one.
Well this one I think and maybe we all kind of fall into all of these from time to time
or sure you know and maybe and maybe we can exist in several of these different stages
of our lives or even simultaneously you know maybe so you know maybe so the third one and
these are in no particular order we've just this is a way that David has kind of laid
them out here but the next one is is I don't I can't forgive others and I can't forgive
myself.
Yeah.
That's a miserable way to live but we see it and and I've been there too you know I've
been in situations where it's hopeless that's it that's a way to that's a really good way
to describe that hopeless fillings of despair no faith right.
And then finally and I think this is the one that we all strive for and that's it's easy
for me to forgive others and it's easy easy for me to appropriately forgive myself.
An easy may not be the right word.
No but but for the lack of a better word and that's why you're willing and that's why
I use the word appropriate to yeah I mean you know for ourselves you know simple yeah
I'm willing I can this is something that I can accomplish is a forgiveness of others
and a forgiveness of myself but I think it's important that for me I throw in that descriptor
of being an appropriate forgiveness of myself because I think a lot of times some of us
I've been guilty of this really guilty of this where you know I can almost become past
feeling yeah in certain things I really can and it's almost embarrassing to say that but
it's true you know and for all of us and it and it and that's been a way that we become
desensitized yeah and that past feeling us kind of was the undertow of my life for you
know in a lot of our lives so you know all of our lives in different areas to a large
degree yeah we become desensitized because of repetition of sin yeah yeah and we totally
rationalize well or we blame or we have excluded ourselves the right to having the spirit with
us you know when we have done things that do not allow the spirit of true of our heavenly
father to be with us then then we can begin to you know a lot of times we think of when
the spirits not with me then I can then I jump into them I'm a rose or a or a you know
a feeling of despair or despondency but that's not that's not the only way that we can respond
to that sometimes we can respond to a lack of spirit in our life with bravado with arrogance
with you know feelings of I'm better than or you know things of that nature as well if
I don't have the spirit how can I help but not sin that's right so if he wants me not
to sin he better give me his spirit that's what's wrong here yeah crazy yes I had a friend
who was excommunicated from the church and he'd been out of the church for several years
lost his membership and and I'm trying to be a missionary and I love him to death we're
close friends and and I after playing racquetball together one day we're talking and I'm saying
you know what's it gonna take what is it gonna take out and how long is it gonna take before
we get you back into the church and he I'll never forget this he said to me David you
don't get it when they took my membership away from the church and I lost the gift of
the Holy Ghost he said it was like somebody put me in a dark room and turned out the lights
and I can't find the switch I remember thinking not only was it very sad but as I thought about
a driving home later I thought well that's pathetic yeah that is really pathetic now
I again I'm not condemning yeah I'm not condemning because I love him but but I thought wow there
at some point you have to take some responsibility for that and find the switch and it may be
you know may not receive full light or there I mean there's always like what we keep talking
about there's always a payoff for people's attitudes and feelings and perspectives right
yeah there is I remember when I was when I went through that process and I was put in
that proverbial dark room as your friend just described it and I remember feeling like there's
got to be a light switch you know and just to go along with your but but you know but
and I'm gonna find it or or God's help that eventually help and find it and that eventually
became my attitude it wasn't maybe right out of the yeah that's not true I gotta give myself
more credit on that because it as it was actually my my intent right out of the gate was to
find that light I felt it but you know here's what here's the interesting thing about that
that observation from your friend the Holy Ghost had left a long time ago right it was
it had been I remember thinking that it had been gone for quite some time so there wasn't
an event that took place that night that morning that day whatever in the stake center and
that membership counsel that said okay Holy Ghost the door's locked you got to go out now
the Holy Ghost hadn't been present for a very long time not on a constant basis not not
as the gift of the Holy Ghost is bestowed upon us would do would do and so I remember
feeling that those feelings too when I was in that place but it if if we can just begin
to put aside our own pride feelings that come up you know and from our pride or from fear
or from just natural phenomenon that takes place as being part of a culture sometimes
we get these feelings of guilt and shame that pop up yeah and when that guilt and shame
pops up that can really move us from you know we kind of laid out four different linear
you know if you will categories classification let's use it that way you know but we can
move depending on our our spiritual condition and I love it to talk about it that way you
know in the big book about alcoholics not a mess I can't remember exactly the page but
it's in the fifth chapter I know that as we go through these processes and it's not untrue
there's the same kind of truth there that as we begin to clean house and invite God into
our lives and you know make things right which includes forgiveness which includes repentance
for us and all of those other things that as we begin to do this though then we begin
to have the spirit come into our lives and as those things come in then it's easier for
us to understand the differences between guilt and shame and where those things are guiding
us and we understand too that that guilt and shame can be a product or a byproduct if you
will of our fear and pride yeah okay so the first again the first classification Scott
which we've spent I think the last two podcasts on yeah is to help us to be able to forgive
others right right we and there are many who are not able to forgive give themselves and
I want to spend more time on that so let's talk about that in regards to how can we be
able to more readily forgive ourselves and you've hit on I think one of the key elements
of that is identifying the difference between guilt and shame guilt starts with G and that's
of God Scott guilt gets a bad rap guilt is of God I never forget reading a book that
had a profound effect on me called the gift of pain it was a book about I'm sorry I can't
remember the author but it was a book about the last leprosy colony in the in the mainland
of the United States I think we still have a leprosy colony in the United States but
it's in Hawaii did you know that I did not and the last one in the mainland of the United
States was in Louisiana and this was the doctor director of that tip of that leprosy colony
and I didn't know that leprosy was a nerve disease a nerve disorder where the nerves
are actually eaten damaged or or damaged so badly destroyed that they feel no pain and
as a result of feeling no pain they are it's kind of like being your whole body being
numbed Scott like after you go to the dentist and your mouse numb and what do you do when
you're a kid chew your tongue you chew your tongue and what happens after it doesn't just
happen when you're a kid that happened to me a couple weeks ago and so you come out
of it right and you have this unbelievable pain or sores or damage that you've caused
well leprosy works something like that that where people don't feel that their feet they
they develop these sores these putrid sores on their body because they can't feel the
pain their nerves don't work they don't feel the pressure they don't feel the pain as a
result they get these blisters because they're not their body is not reacting their body
is not balancing it out as their themselves out because of the pressure or pain that they're
supposed to feel but they don't and that's what that's how these sores and all that takes
place and eventually through infection or other things it will destroy them so he talked
about the gift we call pain pain is a gift I also remember a story I read in readers
digest many years ago about these two boys I can't remember if they were twins or not
but but brothers possibly twins who were born and I can't remember the condition where their
nerves were damaged and they felt no pain and the mother was telling us this horrendous
story of how difficult it was to raise these two sons who didn't live very long because
they would run out in front of they felt no pain they had no fear she she caught them
one day jumping off the house with their legs broken fractured and they were still jumping
off the house and they just became completely handicapped and and I mean that that's an
example of what we take for granted pain guilt causes us pain spiritual pain I believe it's
a gift from God Scott it's it's of God it helps us to recognize when we have sinned
it's like touching a stove you immediately react from God given guilt and what a blessing
that we do and we don't that was another thing I remember that is the burns that these boys
had putting their hand on the stove and thinking it was cool watching their you know smelling
their skin burned their flesh burned anyway awful and so guilt is such a blessing shame
on the other hand is is evil it's it's I think it's interesting how the word ashamed is you
almost always a negative in the scriptures they were ashamed shame is of Satan it is
self-centered it it is it creates all kinds of faults perspective of who we are it's definitely
shows a lack of faith in Jesus Christ and his atonement it totally causes us to look
inward we seek sometimes to hide it guilt on the other hand is outward it's forthcoming
it's confessing it's acknowledging that's what guilt is guilt out in the open shame
is hidden in a closet somewhere in our heart and we harbor it I just think it's really
important for all of us to understand the difference between the two and to just really
recognize that that guilt is such a blessing and it's it's really focused on Jesus Christ
in his atonement it's it's the understanding that we have sinned while shame on the other
hand is something that we seek to hide and Satan is a part of that and he tries to through
shame this is really the problem with shames God he wants us to I he wants our identity
to become what our sins are yeah right so it focuses more on our on our character than
it does our behavior guilt focuses more on our behavior and that I have sinned shame
on the other hand we start to think if we have a pornography addiction that I'm a that
just who I am I'm a pervert and all of a sudden we begin to identify our character with the
nature of our sin that is totally evil and and wrong that we do that and that's what
shame causes us to do yeah the book you referenced the gift of pain is written by a Philip Yancy
and a Dr. Paul brand so I'd recommend Paul Dr. Paul brand was the director that our amazing
book readers maybe take a look at I just looked it up and it's available on Amazon and many
other places well getting back to guilt and shame you know you you you make some really
important and poignant points around the concepts of guilt and shame and again in not just in
the church but in recovery and in in life and in in so many areas you know in our own circles
of influence of our own cultures this guilt and shame thing has really been a problem
since the beginning of time right I mean even in the even in the Garden of Eden I hid myself
hide yeah Satan commands them exactly it because you're naked hide because God can see everything
that's wrong with you you should hide yeah right guilt is you know what I ate the fruit
and because I ate the fruit there's going to be a price to pay but you know and I'm
going to have to to go through some process here but there's a but there's a plan in place
for this and that plan ultimately will allow me to not just put this behind me but to eventually
receive exaltation and so you know that's the guilt and that's the shame a lot of times
I've heard it said in recovery and in other places recovery doesn't just have the corner
on all these really cool sayings it's just where I spend a lot of time right but the
a lot of times in recovery when we talk about guilt and shame we differentiate them by
realizing that guilt means I made a mistake as you mentioned yeah I just made a mistake
right and because of the and that's a gift or sinned which is a mistake right and so
those that that sin that mistake that guilt that I feel because of that is a gift to me
because it helps me keep my ship on course right we're shame so guilt means I made a
mistake shame as you mentioned comes from the enemy comes from Satan he wants us to
believe in shame he wants us to you know we talk about I remember thinking in hearing
this even shame on you you know for doing something shame on you it's part of our culture
you know and it goes all the way back to public flogging sin and even back to the law of Moses
you know it felt like there is some shame involved there maybe with the the stoning
you know in front of everybody and various things but when it comes to shame that is
Satan inspiring us to believe that I am a mistake yeah oh I love that guilt is I made
a mistake shame is I am a mistake and that's why we try to hide it so much you know just
again guilt is from God and it is quickly should be quickly replaced with gratitude
for the atonement of Jesus Christ shame on the other hand shame is of Satan and it fills
us with selfish self-centered thoughts and feelings yeah graded guilt turns us to God
yeah and shame turns us inward to ourselves I think a lot of times when we think of selfishness
and inwardness and you know even to the extreme of narcissism that we think of things that
would produce positive outcome you know but but you know a lot of times selfishness can
also produce negative outcome and this is what we're talking about here and again there's
a payoff yeah there's a payoff to this right so important for me for you all of us to really
consider what that may be anyway to forgive ourselves we have to be able to identify the
difference Scott between guilt and shame because those who feel true guilt as a gift
will be able to work out their repentance but for those who feel shame they don't work
out their repentance and they never do feel free you know and they're not able unless
they brainwash themselves which isn't really forgiving themselves at all right they're
never free from from the feeling that they'll never they're never going to to be good enough
right in a proper response to guilt will put us in that contrite spirit mode which is the
alignment of our will with heavenly fathers that's a they the correct response to guilt
will do that for us there is no the only correct response to shame is to put it aside to eradicate
it from our lives the only way we can eradicate shame from our lives is to focus on our connection
with the savior yeah good correct I love the talk given by elder Jeffrey R. Holland
a couple years ago back in 2009 I think it was January 2009 BYU speeches BYU devotional
called remember lots wife I really recommend that to all of us to to read or reread it's
so so great here about you know lot the story of lots wife and fleeing from Sodom and Gomorrah
and her commanded not to look back or she'll turn to a pillar of salt and she does and
there's interesting commentaries and interpretations about that but but it's also maybe a metaphor
for some of us which elder Holland brilliantly as he always does makes a whole talk about
it and just two paragraphs from that talks God that I think applies here elder Holland
says when something is over and done with when it has been repented of as fully as it
can be repented of when life has moved on as it should and a lot of other wonderfully
good things have happened since then it is not right to go back over and over again and
open up some ancient wound that the son of God himself died trying to heal when repentance
is sincere when honest effort is being made to progress we are guilty of the greater sin
if we keep remembering and choosing to recall and rebash someone with their earlier mistakes
and that someone might be ourselves we can be so hard on ourselves often so much more
than on others so I it's the metaphor of lots wife you why turn around and look back the
somebody wrote in a book on this subject years ago that while you're driving don't keep your
head you you spend too much time looking in the rearview mirror you're not going to be
able to progress moving ahead you're going to it's going to be a big accident waiting
to happen if you're trying to drive a car forward while you're looking in the rearview
mirror well it's not just that lots wife looked back and I think we need to always remember
this too because it's it can be important for us sometimes to remember sometimes our
memory of those guilt situations you know we do need to remember those those memories
can also be a gift but it's the fact that she looked back longingly yeah she looked back
and wanted that's what many commentaries believe either right yeah someday I want to know more
about that you know yeah her heart motivation what really happened there yeah elder Richardson
said this years ago forgiving oneself of a sin does not excuse does not mean excusing
oneself for sinning when we forgive a sin we neither say it is okay nor that payment
will not be required so do you get that when we forgive a sin including ourselves we neither
say it's okay nor the payment will not be required in other words somebody had to pay
for it right and it's immediately we should think our thoughts should go to Jesus Christ
I think one of the biggest problems Scott of not being able to forgive ourselves and and
or not being able to forgive others is because we don't understand the atonement of Jesus
Christ and that he paid the punishment he paid the penalty he met the demands of justice
and some of us continue to try to beat ourselves up we continue to try to make the payment
or we we demand the payment from others we're going to make them pay and so we disdain them
we try to we try to sabotage them or sabotage our relationship we're going to cause them
pain for what they did because we think that's the way redemption or forgiveness should work
it's the way we balance the scale that's that's a mockery of the atonement of Jesus Christ
God it's a mockery of the atonement of Jesus Christ to think that I can make full payment
or that I demand payment from anyone else who has sinned against me or me make payment
for any sin that I've committed elder Richardson goes on and says rather forgiveness allows
us to turn both the final judgment of guilt and the full payment of debt over to the Lord
Jesus Christ the Lord has said leave judgment alone with me for it is mine and I will repay
that's the atonement of Jesus Christ and so I again think that one of the in all of those
four classifications if we really went down below the surface the key to each of those
even more than than certain character trades is what is their understanding of the atonement
of Jesus Christ because understanding the atonement of Jesus Christ which the which is the major
foundation of repentance itself should just naturally will naturally help us to forgive
give ourselves and forgive others by not by not holding payment or punishment over our
heads it's it's isn't it we're like spiritual masochists that we we keep wanting to just
beat ourselves up over and over and over again for sins that we've committed or mistakes
that we've made I just elder Holland again in that same talk remembering lots wife he
says that when when honest effort is being made to progress we are guilty of the greater
sin if we keep remembering and recalling and rebashing someone which may be even ourselves
that's a greater sin Scott we keep we because we just keep hurting others which again may
be ourselves and if we're hurting ourselves if we're not forgiving ourselves Scott we
are hurting others because we're not the person that we could be or that we should be or we
are denying the full miracle and blessings of the atonement of Jesus Christ in our life
which affects everyone who knows us that's important with everything that we do here
you know weeks ago probably maybe even months ago we said we can't sin in a bubble because
even because even our sin you know even you know and I think we talked about it you know
as I had to do with pornography addiction maybe or something like that but even though
people don't know or even though these things are within us or private or whatever they're
really not because they do affect others that were around they affect our attitudes they
affect the way that we interact they affect the way that we behave and so on and so yeah
this is an extremely important part of it as well and I think even the misunderstanding
or the lack of understanding of the atonement of Jesus Christ is a factor in not forgiving
ourselves and I think it goes back to our earlier podcast one of our first podcast it's
a lack of understanding or a misunderstanding Scott of the doctrine of the fall of Adam
and Eve who do we think that we are what what do we think about our whole purpose and the
plan of redemption and we sin and we I mean Scott those was all part of the plan that
we would sin there's no surprises to God he knew that we would sin I know God cannot justify
sin he cannot look upon it with the least degree of allowance I get that but he knew
that we would he's not shocked he's not wringing his hands he's not throwing his head back
and his hand to his forehead saying oh no you didn't yeah there's there's nothing about
sin that has surprised him or that has disdained that he looks upon an individual as maybe
someone who has sinned right but he still looks upon them knowing their past their present
and their future and sees them as his child and his love is always there for them so I
I think that part of the problem of not forgiving ourselves is a lack of understanding or misunderstanding
of the of the fall of Adam and Eve I think another reason people don't forgive themselves
or it's hard to forgive ourselves Scott is a lack of faith which we we discussed in a
podcast the lack of faith in the power of the atonement of Jesus Christ people believe
they have faith in Jesus Christ and they may believe that in which category is this that
he forgives everybody else that the atonement of Jesus Christ is there for everybody else
but it's not there for me yeah that's the first category we talked about you know that
I can forgive others because I know God does forgive them but he doesn't forgive me and
I think it it actually can be more difficult Scott I think for us to forgive others than
to forgive ourselves when and because we know what we were thinking when we sinned and we
know how accountable we are or not we we know what we did wrong and we know why we did it
we we sometimes don't know that or make that judgment about others we know we knew better
and we want to beat ourselves up in order just that we won't do it again well and there's
there's a part of that beat ourselves up to that kind of gives us some satisfaction I
think towards this flogging ourselves exactly cutting spiritually punishment cutting ourselves
right right right right because you know in our culture and I think in most cultures you
know for the the the consequence for sin or most a lot of misgivings has been some sort
of physical punishment or punishment at just punishment period in the past and you know
and there is a when we talked about what sin is not you know we know that there are consequences
that come because of our actions and that those consequences can come as a very negative
experience in our lives you know for example you know we had last week talked about Cameron
and and Chris Williams Williams who he who Cameron had you know unintentionally but had
nonetheless perpetrated a grave problem for this family he had driven drunk and several
lives were lost because of that but you know we we he knows the things that he's gone through
and and he believes and and maybe a lot of us would believe and I'm not saying he believes
this because I have knowledge of this but I'm just you know kind of wondering if you know
this is sometimes where we go that that maybe I need extra if you knew how bad I think that's
one of the secrets that we have that we think when we meet other people that people when
people love us and people who are the type that would be more likely more less likely
to forgive themselves might be in this category where if you only knew me yeah if you only
knew this about me what I don't want you to know and Deb always says that in our institute
class one of the questions that sometimes we need to overcome is is what I don't want
you to know about me is this and you know and and and it's so kind of private self-awarenesses
or self-esteem says erroneous as they may be that keep us I kind of think in that category
where you know I just feel like I need to get beat up I feel like I need to be punished
for it and there's never enough punishment yeah in that sad Scott yeah but it's true
it is true we've all we've all experienced that and it's it's so dangerous and sad to
think how sin opens us up to Satan who wants us to identify again ourselves with our with
our sin and as soon as he does that Scott he's really got us yeah we need to know who we
are and whose we are I read it I read an interesting scripture I got to grab my Bible here I read
another interesting scripture not long ago a few weeks ago in Isaiah 43 studying Isaiah and I was
in chapter 43 I came across this verse it's the first verse in fact this is this is such a
beautiful chapter chapter 43 Isaiah verse 1 but now thus saith the Lord that created the
O Jacob and he that formed thee O Israel fear not for I have redeemed thee I have called thee by
thy name and thou art mine wow I when I read that I really felt the spirit of that Scott
and it really affected me for a long time it still affects me but you know Israel and Jacob wasn't
there was nothing too righteous about them in the middle of Isaiah here where he's calling
them to repentance I mean they're they're in bad shape and and they're sinning and in Isaiah has
been the prophet to calm their repentance and he actually ends up becoming a martyr but through
this prophet God is still reaching out continually to Jacob and Israel and telling them I have redeemed
thee you just need to know who you are and especially that you're mine I think that is so
so powerful even in your sins you are still mine and I I just hope that our listeners
can begin fear not we need to eliminate the fear so much of our fears are based upon
our lack of understanding of who we are and not knowing who's we are that we belong to him that
we are his in fact I think fear Scott is a major reason why people have a hard time forgiving themselves
one of the reasons fear comes into play is because they're afraid their lack of faith
in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and in the enabling power of the Atonement of Jesus Christ
people are afraid that they're going to commit the sin again and again and again that's that's
part of the fear right and they have they have fear if they're not fully repented that
they're never going to be able to return to the presence of God so they lose hope they have fear
of moving on and they have fear of change they fear of what what will the change in my life
really look like I mean I fear change I don't know if I want to quit my sinning I don't know
if I want to really forgive myself and move on and they fear that they fear
that they fear if Satan can place fear into our hearts he can totally shut us down and keep us
not only from trying to repent but he can ultimately keep us from recognizing
repentance or forgiveness in our life and keep us from forgiving ourselves yeah you said something
about remembering you know it's important for us to remember so much remember who we are remember
whose we are remember who they are remember who's they are etc and you know we think and I've and
I've heard this it's easy for you to say remember remember is not easy for me to remember who I am
some people will say that's not easy for me well there's an anecdote for that and it's right in
the scripture you know and we get as an anecdote for that is actually a member of the godhead
that helps us to remember who we are if we go to John 14 verses 26 through 27 this is an old
missionary scripture we're all probably very familiar with it but the comforter which is the
holy ghost and just think of that name alone the comforter to bring me comforter whom the
father will send in my name he shall teach you all things and bring all things to your remembers
yeah all things who you are who's you are probably top top among those things absolutely yeah and so
you know if we're if we're struggling with who we are if we're struggling with that remembering
who we are and I really do believe that if we do remember if we know who we are if we have those
rememberings uh alive and well on a constant basis in our lives I think that this process I'm not
saying it's going to be easy ever for anybody I mean this is a mortal process this is it does take
some effort it does take some work on our part but it's not impossible in fact it becomes increasingly
more possible in fact it can be done with grace and ease I would submit if we remember who we are
but in order for us to do that we must maintain a relationship that will allow the spirit of the
holy ghost to be alive and well in our lives always I love that Scott so uh Scott I I have some
antidotes you use that term I have some antidotes uh for people for our listeners for you and me
our families to consider on things that they can do in order to forgive themselves okay so I've had
hundreds of students thank me for this list who have come back and if they're real if you really
put in the effort use the word effort I love president Nelson's uh exclamation mark statement
God loves effort it takes effort these are gifts but to receive these gifts takes effort
so I'm gonna I'm gonna list maybe five or six of of these and I maybe I'm gonna start with the first
one to know who and who's you are and don't forget it and allow the holy ghost to help you to always
remember it second humility humility which is the result of striving to live a righteous life Scott
humility helps us to be more dependent on Christ and his redeeming atonement than upon our own
efforts humility is a result of knowing that man can merit nothing of himself that's also part of
our identity our identity to know who we really are that we're humans to that we are meritless
we can merit nothing of ourselves to know that and to to depend upon the atonement of Jesus Christ
that's true humility that's what humility is next searching the scriptures that takes great effort
with with the desire to understand the universal effects of the fall and the power of the infinite
atonement if if we could just really get into the words God the word of God and to understand
the truths of the doctrine of the fall of all mankind and the atonement of Jesus Christ
we would begin to see ourselves and others and our sins as they really are next is praying with
all energy of heart to be filled with perfect love charity pure love of Christ which casteth
out all fear and all other negative emotions that's that comes from moroni seven forty eight to
pray with all energy of heart for this love moroni exhorts us
anyway i i just think that's something that we've talked a lot about in our podcast and i hope
people continue to experiment with it and apply that in their life next is learning
of Jesus Christ as he invites us to do which includes his character his mercy and his grace
which will help us to be forgiven and to feel forgiven and then to forgive ourselves
and finally scott which i want to spend the rest of our time on the few minutes that we have left
finally knowing that when we feel the holy ghost in our life the atonement of christ is doing its
work and we are being forgiven or we have been forgiven i i just love that quote from president
iring that when we feel the holy ghost we know the atonement is working in our life
i think scott ultimately to forgive ourselves it is quite simple not always easy but it's quite
simple when we know that god has forgiven us therefore the key to forgive ourselves is to know
that we are forgiven to know where we stand with god well in order to do that he's given us a list
of several examples you know of how to know that we're forgiven um maybe we can just look at a few
of these right dr and covenants scott if you want to let's let's read a few of these dr and covenants
section six dr and covenants section six revelation through the prophet joseph smith the
oliver caldery when a few days after oliver caldery had gone down to harmony and
inquires of joseph smith what the lord would have him do and
and six twenty three scott please he says did not i speak peace under your mind concerning the
matter what greater witness can you have them from god i know people feel that from time to time
but satan can either mask it or we don't dwell on it enough we're not mindful enough to identify it
and to allow it to dwell with us long enough and we get too too much caught up in all the
distractions of the world and the noise of the world that we don't identify the peace which
the holy ghost will bring into our life as we seek to repent and there is no greater witness
than peace when it comes to repenting and forgiving so here's another one scott let's let's go to
second nifa four thirty and thirty one you know this is after nifa has declared ol wretched man
that i am and he's obviously in the state of repentance in this chapter ol wretched man that
i am and yet i know in whom i've trusted listen to what he says in verses thirty and thirty one
nifa he says rejoice oh my heart and cry unto the lord and say oh lord i will praise thee forever
yay my soul will rejoice in thee my god and the rock of my salvation oh lord wilt thou redeem my
soul wilt thou deliver me from the hands of mine enemies wilt thou make me that i may shake at the
appearance of sin so i think there's a couple of things in this what what do you see scott
but the very last one wilt thou make me that i may shake at the appearance of sin
man we should all pray for that huh yeah no kidding we should all pray for that but how do we know
how did nifa know that he was forgiven it wasn't necessarily that he did shake at the appearance
of sin right yeah it's his attitude that he wanted to shake at the appearance of sin
he was willing to pray for that he sought that that was his desire so he he identifies several
desires in there this desire that he has to rejoice he's rejoicing to his god he is filled with
gratitude and with the desire not to sin anymore these are all evidences it's it's so evident as you
read his words and in fact that whole chapter as you go through it that he has repented and that he
has been forgiven and and another there's a whole group of people that experience a similar feeling
in moseya chapter four verses two and three after king benjamin has delivered his amazing discourse
on the atonement of jesus christ in uh in moseya chapter three then we have this whole group of
people who pitched their tents around the temple and king benjamin had built the tower and and
after this discourse we find them falling to the ground and and try to let's let's listen carefully
to this and try to feel what they're feeling the two and three and they had re and they had viewed
themselves in their own carnal state even less than the dust of the earth all right so scott they
understood the fall yeah and they and they all cried aloud with one voice saying oh have mercy
and apply the atoning blood of christ that we may receive forgiveness of our sins and our hearts
may be purified for we believe in jesus christ the son of god who created heaven and earth and all
things who shall come down among the children of man so what are they feeling an appreciation a
love a connection to jesus christ because of his atoning blood yeah yeah yeah and and expressing
their their belief their hope their faith yeah right they're filled with this the spirit the
this is the holy ghost that's causing these feelings in them okay next verse and it came to pass
that after they had spoken these words the spirit of the lord came upon them and they were filled
with joy having received a remission of their sins and having peace of conscience because of the
exceeding faith which they had in jesus christ who should come according to the words which king
benjamin had spoken unto them had a great word yeah yeah how did they know they were forgiven
what was there what was the emotion joy they were filled with joy and peace and no doubt
peace peace of conscience peace of conscience joy and peace and why because of their exceeding faith
in jesus christ yeah well how about alma chapter 13 where i have a whole list of these but we'll
just do one more scott alma chapter 13 verses 11 and 12 therefore they are called after this holy
order and were sanctified and their garments were washed white through the blood of the lamb
now they after being sanctified by the holy ghost having their garments made white with
pure and spotless before god could not look upon sin save it were with adorance and there were many
exceedingly great many who were made pure and entered into the rest of the lord their god
what uh i don't know what word would you use or stand out to you in that verse god
are evidence of their forgiveness well that their their garments had been washed through
the blood of the lamb so there's there's some faith there too right there's yeah there's some
deep there's some deep faith in order for them to understand that um you know after being sanctified
by the holy ghost having their garments made white being pure and spotless before god they
could not look upon sin save it were with adorance and so they they couldn't even look they couldn't
even look at it without you know i would say without i without saying get sick to my stomach
yeah you know and and maybe that even includes scott their past yeah their past sins yeah i'm
sure it does right and that when we talk to the whole podcast on what it means to forsake yep
yep to forsake our sins which means we don't even think about them and the reason we don't think
about them is because they kind of make us sick think about them yeah i i scott i can remember
all my sins yeah i can remember all my sins but it's not with any joy no it's it i remember my
sins and i feel i feel great regret and abhorrence and i actually think scott so we we've used the
word joy and we've used the word peace but i actually feel i think one of the signs of repentance
is that i feel abhorrence and i feel great regret for my sins i think that's evidence yeah that we
have been forgiven of our sins not just the joy and peace knowing that christ has redeemed us saved
us and forgiven us of sin well i hope i hope that this will be helpful to those who are
seeking to know where they stand and i know that i testify my experience i've seen this over and
over again thinking about several instances of the missionary training center when i was
there trying to help missionaries to repent and uh knowing that once they came to know
and sweet testimonies and some letters i received from missionaries once they came to know
where they stood with god they quickly were able to forgive themselves and move on and become and
become great instruments in the hands of god and i that would be my prayer for me and for you and for
all of us folks we hope you've felt the spirit we hope that you have been able to ingest some of the
wonderful beautiful truths that we talk about we testify of but most importantly and above all
things we hope that this gives us an opportunity and a desire through our gratitude to come unto
him more fully as we feel the power of his atonement at work in our lives thanks for being with us
today remember that you have been redeemed through his blood and we look forward to being with you
again next week