1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,440 Hey there everybody welcome back for another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:23,440 Scott Durfey here joined as always by Dave Durfey. 3 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:24,440 What's up Dave? 4 00:00:24,440 --> 00:00:31,320 Great day Scott. It's thankful to be able to talk about such an important principle 5 00:00:31,320 --> 00:00:37,320 of the gospel forgiving ourselves and others in the repentance process. 6 00:00:37,320 --> 00:00:44,040 This is one where we, when we really get to start taking an introspective look, there's 7 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:50,440 so often Dave I think that you know this word forgiveness which is really where we come 8 00:00:50,440 --> 00:00:56,760 to at this point in our discussion but this word forgiveness is, it can contain and hold 9 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:03,040 on to so much emotion for so many of us that I just love when we're able to talk about 10 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:10,400 this and maybe personally it gives me an opportunity to kind of reflect and take another inventory 11 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:15,480 which I should be doing on a more regular basis when it comes to forgiveness both of myself 12 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:22,720 and others but you know this really is where we kind of go next isn't it in the discussion 13 00:01:22,720 --> 00:01:25,240 around repentance and forgiveness. 14 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:31,060 Absolutely. So we've talked about the foundations of repentance, we've talked about the actions 15 00:01:31,060 --> 00:01:38,160 of repentance and now we're talking about the manifestations of repentance Scott. 16 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:47,600 And the manifestations of repentance really are that the confession by this the Lord says 17 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,880 in doctrine coming to section 58 by this you may know if a man has repented of his sins 18 00:01:52,880 --> 00:01:56,560 he will confess them and forsake them. 19 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:02,360 So those are manifestations or evidence of our repentance confessing and forsaking. We've 20 00:02:02,360 --> 00:02:09,600 talked about those last week we talked about rep making restitution again through the power 21 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:16,280 and the atonement of Jesus Christ with grace and mercy and help enabling power and strength 22 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:24,120 all along the way through this process Scott the Lord helps us blesses us through his atoning 23 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:32,560 sacrifice and restitution we talked about that how focusing on him suffering for what 24 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:40,640 was lost as a result of our sins and that all can be restored even virtue can be restored 25 00:02:40,640 --> 00:02:48,240 if we have lost ours or have stolen it from someone else that even virtue can be restored 26 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:54,080 through the atonement of Jesus Christ which I don't we can't comprehend that or know how 27 00:02:54,080 --> 00:02:59,720 but that's the miracle and power of Jesus Christ through his atonement. 28 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:04,800 And now today the final manifestation really of repentance and I know it affects every 29 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:11,080 single person out there all of those who are listening you and me and every member of our 30 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:25,600 family is the final manifestation is the ability to forgive ourselves and to forgive others. 31 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:34,400 And I know that so many people wrestle with this Scott it's it's so hard and I I understand 32 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,920 that I've been there and I know that it's hard and everybody circumstances is different 33 00:03:39,920 --> 00:03:45,360 I can't compare my experiences to anybody else nobody else can compare their experiences 34 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:55,080 to me or to you so it just depends but while there are some amazing miracles Scott that 35 00:03:55,080 --> 00:04:02,280 I know of in my own life and in the lives of others that through again Jesus Christ 36 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:14,520 in his atonement power can be given to us to forgive and to forgive to forgive others 37 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:22,440 and to forgive ourselves it's it's really always troubled me for many years now Scott 38 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:28,800 when I hear people say you just have to forgive yourself you just got to forgive yourself 39 00:04:28,800 --> 00:04:37,640 you just got to move on and forgive yourself and I think don't please don't shortcut this 40 00:04:37,640 --> 00:04:46,760 process don't short circuit it I really believe Scott that when someone understands that deity 41 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:55,760 has forgiven them when they truly feel forgiven by the Lord when they can recognize the power 42 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:02,400 gift and influence of the of the Holy Ghost in their life when they know that Jesus Christ 43 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:11,480 blood has been applied and wash their garments clean and they feel clean and they know it 44 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:19,960 Scott it's quite simple after that to forgive yourself and I I just I just have this hypothesis 45 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:29,080 that others will have to experiment with that I think when someone knows they're forgiven 46 00:05:29,080 --> 00:05:33,680 they will forgive themselves that's why I think it's a manifestation of repentance if 47 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:40,840 so if one wants to know if they've really repented they will forgive themselves because 48 00:05:40,840 --> 00:05:46,000 because they have done all that was required of them and they know that they're forgiven 49 00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:55,680 by the Lord if the Lord forgives us the C. S. Lewis says if the Lord God forgives us who 50 00:05:55,680 --> 00:06:08,240 are we to be a higher tribunal and judge than God even towards ourselves so this is a manifestation 51 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:16,440 of repentance because one knows that they've been forgiven one should know they've been 52 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:22,080 forgiven and one should feel the spirit when they feel that the Lord has forgiven them and 53 00:06:22,080 --> 00:06:28,560 then I think it's quite simple again not always everybody circumstances different I understand 54 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:35,880 the psychological emotional pains that can be caused by others in our lives but they 55 00:06:35,880 --> 00:06:45,600 can forgive themselves and they can forgive others through the power of Jesus Christ 56 00:06:45,600 --> 00:06:52,120 and His Atonement and through the gift of the Holy Ghost I think that's one of the reasons 57 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:57,160 why we don't just jump into forgiveness right out of the gate right I mean this is ultimately 58 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,800 the goal kind of the final it's kind of the end game why we do the repentance right know 59 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,400 you're forgiven and forgive yourself and others that's right that's kind of the end 60 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,400 game of this whole repentance and turning to him processes to fill that forgiveness 61 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:16,480 and to be able to afford ourselves are that same forgiveness which may sometimes even 62 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:21,920 be I don't know arguably even more difficult but you know if we if we were to just jump 63 00:07:21,920 --> 00:07:25,800 right to forgiveness and if we were to just say hey all right everybody let's everybody 64 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,160 get together forget everything that's happened let's just have a let's just talk about forgiveness 65 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:35,440 and why it's so important I mean that would be it would have some power it would have 66 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:42,240 some effect there's no doubt efficacious there it would be inspiring to bring peace 67 00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:49,800 to some degree in our life but until and unless we fully understand or begin to make a full 68 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:55,480 effort that's probably the best way to say that until we make a full effort to understand 69 00:07:55,480 --> 00:08:00,640 the atonement of Jesus Christ and go through the actions of repentance remember the actions 70 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:05,720 of repentance right crying out if we're exactly if we don't have that crying out experience 71 00:08:05,720 --> 00:08:10,480 if we don't have the ability or or or make an attempt to offer our whole souls in our 72 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:16,400 sins in our in our broken lives all of the effects of the fall if we don't make that 73 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:22,840 effort to offer that to him then this forgiveness part of it will really be difficult and in 74 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:30,480 many cases maybe even all to you know the full degree impossible for us to achieve so 75 00:08:30,480 --> 00:08:34,680 yeah you know I think that it's important that we remember that that we bring all of 76 00:08:34,680 --> 00:08:41,440 those feelings and emotions back into this conversation today back into our into our souls 77 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:49,240 and our psyches today as we begin to process and consider forgiveness of others and in 78 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,840 towards ourselves ultimately and you know maybe even finally I don't know but in our 79 00:08:53,840 --> 00:09:02,280 own lives that until we have that connection with and faith in Jesus and faith in his name 80 00:09:02,280 --> 00:09:06,960 and the ability to make covenants and bring all of those things into our lives this is 81 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:12,360 really a difficult thing so having said that is just kind of a preface to where we're going 82 00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:18,720 to go if for whatever reason we're feeling uneasy or if for whatever reason some of these 83 00:09:18,720 --> 00:09:25,160 things are really difficult for us to swallow or consider let's go back let's go back in 84 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:30,160 time let's go back in our experience of what we've been talking about over the last quite 85 00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:35,560 a while now let's go back and let's take into consideration that crying out and that offering 86 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:39,680 our souls to him because as we do that then it makes it easier for us to do what we're 87 00:09:39,680 --> 00:09:45,640 talking about David well Scott I know you've had the experience of knowing that you're 88 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:50,880 forgiven of some of your sins or all of your sins and this is again as a process we're 89 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:58,280 never through repenting in this life but I've and I've shared my experience of repending 90 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:05,320 over and over and over again trying to become clean when I went on my mission and and not 91 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:11,320 knowing if I was worthy and writing letters home and trying to do everything I could and 92 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:18,680 and feeling guilty and and bad about myself but working so hard to be a worthy missionary 93 00:10:18,680 --> 00:10:25,640 and and then I had that that experience in Pacific Grove California and and it was an 94 00:10:25,640 --> 00:10:35,680 experience it was an event where I knew that I was clean I knew that I was forgiven from 95 00:10:35,680 --> 00:10:47,800 that moment on I forgave myself still had regret still had you know some some some sorrowful 96 00:10:47,800 --> 00:10:56,680 feelings about about my sins as anybody I think would but they didn't eat me up I wasn't 97 00:10:56,680 --> 00:11:03,440 I was I was I was guiltless Scott that's the only way I can describe it I was guiltless 98 00:11:03,440 --> 00:11:12,440 I was blameless I didn't blame myself I didn't blame others I wasn't a victim I of sin or 99 00:11:12,440 --> 00:11:21,560 victim of other sins Scott it it completely changed the trajectory of not only my mission 100 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:29,840 but of my life to know that when one knows that they're forgiven again going through 101 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:37,760 the actions laying the foundations of repentance and crying out with a broken heart contrite 102 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:48,440 spirit offering our sins sacrificing our will to God and you feel this confirmation wash 103 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:59,960 over you that you are clean that you are redeemed that you are forgiven honestly I didn't even 104 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:07,320 have to try to forgive myself Scott and I just think so many people who are are having still 105 00:12:07,320 --> 00:12:17,240 a hard time to not I know I know there are some more with sensitive spirits and it's 106 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:25,080 I know it's complicated I'm not meaning to oversimplify this process but my experience 107 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:36,520 is that it comes as a gift it's not something that I can just through repetition I forgive 108 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:43,000 myself I forgive myself I forgive myself I forgive myself and brainwash myself to be 109 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:49,800 forgiven because that's not the way repentance or redemption works but when one knows where 110 00:12:49,800 --> 00:13:00,360 they stand with God and that they've had a divine experience it's I don't even think 111 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:05,440 you really need to try to forgive yourself well because it comes it comes as part of 112 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:12,600 the effects of that divine experience that you're talking about yeah because I I haven't 113 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:17,680 I've had that same experience that you just described now but it's taken me a long time 114 00:13:17,680 --> 00:13:21,240 in my life to have that experience you know I tried to have that experience while I was 115 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:25,840 on my mission and and you know maybe I did to a degree I do remember a night and rent 116 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:32,040 rent in Washington you know where I had just an absolute spiritual manifestation that if 117 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:36,280 I hadn't been forgiven it would have been impossible for me to have that I realized 118 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:42,600 that there you go you know and I realized that then you know but but since then and here's 119 00:13:42,600 --> 00:13:46,560 that you know here's what's really kind of clouded it for me is since then is I made 120 00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:52,280 a lot of other stupid decisions I've made a lot of other mistakes I created a lot of 121 00:13:52,280 --> 00:13:57,280 a lot more distance between me and the spirit by my own actions and that's been difficult 122 00:13:57,280 --> 00:14:04,200 it's not now but that had been difficult for me to to overcome by way of you know offering 123 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:10,600 forgiveness to myself at least and I I think that you know we'll talk about forgiving ourselves 124 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:16,760 as we go along but I think right now we probably should talk more about forgiving others well 125 00:14:16,760 --> 00:14:24,000 we should because if we don't forgive others God has said he won't forgive us right so 126 00:14:24,000 --> 00:14:31,240 I we are I am kind of jumping ahead we need to forgive others first in order for God to 127 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:37,760 forgive us and then when God forgives us it's easier for us to forgive ourselves that's 128 00:14:37,760 --> 00:14:43,680 right and I think it's it's usually in that order I actually believe Scott that that's 129 00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:50,920 one of the major roadblocks of us feeling forgiven and it keeps us from forgiving ourselves 130 00:14:50,920 --> 00:15:02,840 is our inability unwillingness to receive the gift and the power from God through Jesus 131 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:09,840 Christ and his atonement and the administration of the Holy Ghost in our life to forgive others 132 00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:16,720 there's a lot of pain that people are experiencing and have experienced in their life and I'm 133 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:25,640 not saying that all of that goes away psychological and and emotional pain and all of that but 134 00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:34,200 they're able to let it go because they know that Jesus Christ has taken it from them and 135 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:44,400 he carried it not only this is where the miraculous part of the atonement of Jesus Christ is incomprehensible 136 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:52,480 he not only paid for our sins and met the demands of justice but he suffered for all 137 00:15:52,480 --> 00:16:00,600 of the sins committed against us all of our suffering all of our pains all of our sicknesses 138 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:07,640 caused by ourselves or others and he did that through his suffering in Gethsemane and on 139 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:13,320 the cross so if we just are able to give it to him then we don't have to carry it you 140 00:16:13,320 --> 00:16:20,960 started off the that last thing that you just said with you know some of us have the inability 141 00:16:20,960 --> 00:16:27,360 or unwillingness to forgive others or ourselves and and it feels like that doesn't it it feels 142 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:33,880 like an inability but it's not really an inability we have the ability but you but you hit you 143 00:16:33,880 --> 00:16:39,440 as a gift that gift has to come as a gift of the spirit and that gift of the spirit you 144 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:43,920 just describe that that gift of the spirit is the administration of the Holy Ghost in 145 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:50,680 our lives and then that gives us the ability you know we we we it does feel like sometimes 146 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,880 our hands are tied it does feel like sometimes and I've experienced this and I and I know 147 00:16:54,880 --> 00:17:01,560 there are others who have had to forgive others in their lives with stories that I just can't 148 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:06,360 even begin to comprehend personally but you know as difficult as it has it has been for 149 00:17:06,360 --> 00:17:13,360 me to sometimes forgive others in the past but you hit the nail on the head or you you 150 00:17:13,360 --> 00:17:18,000 talked about the key of all of that is to live my life in a way that allows the spirit 151 00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:23,040 to be present in my life when the spirit's present in my life in my life then that inability 152 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:29,280 changes from not just inability but it gives me not just the ability but the desire because 153 00:17:29,280 --> 00:17:34,280 that desire as I feel that desire that draws me closer to him and you know and I'm not 154 00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,640 sure which comes first or if it's all kind of at the same time the desire to come closer 155 00:17:38,640 --> 00:17:44,280 or that drawing closer brings the desire but it may come all at once and I think that's 156 00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:51,720 the spiritual gift right it's the willingness desire and strength yeah and power yeah and 157 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:59,800 it's the the willingness to receive that in our life that that makes all the difference 158 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:09,360 Scott you know I I think one of the hardest things to forgive is when we know that the 159 00:18:09,360 --> 00:18:18,960 actions of others have continued to kind of perpetuate the pain yeah over and over and 160 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:27,360 over and it becomes intergenerational and you know and anyway I think for example sexual 161 00:18:27,360 --> 00:18:34,840 abuse I have a son who's a sex offender you know this little boy that we adopt a little 162 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:42,400 boy in 1991 when we adopted him and now and now he's a man and he's been in prison and 163 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:51,280 I listeners I know know this but anyway one of the hardest things to do in forgiving others 164 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:57,920 is when you know the pain they have caused those that you love and even people that 165 00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:03,520 maybe you've never met before and your heart goes out to those individuals where there 166 00:19:03,520 --> 00:19:13,120 have been victims in the wake of others choices decisions and actions and when I honestly 167 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:24,360 Scott I when you see your wife weep and wail and cry and or you see others who you love 168 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:36,000 you know who are deeply hurt because of the actions of others it's pretty hard to to no 169 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:46,240 one can take that lightly and just brush that aside it it hurts you if others who you really 170 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:55,520 love are hurting and you know I I've experienced that I think in the greatest pain in my life 171 00:19:55,520 --> 00:20:01,080 is not what others have done to me but what others have done to members of my family who 172 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:08,200 I who I love and it's harder for me to forgive those individuals who've hurt members of my 173 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:15,640 family in the case of our son the pain that he caused my sweetheart the pain that he's 174 00:20:15,640 --> 00:20:22,240 caused others you would think Scott that that would be really hard for me to forgive and 175 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:29,600 I know that in some families that may that could almost destroy a family yeah yeah I've 176 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:41,800 seen that we both yeah that that individual that prodigal that prodigal son could be what's 177 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:52,440 the word could be cast out yeah shunned shunned disowned disowned yeah yeah ashamed of there's 178 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:58,600 just so many emotions that and it happens all the time in families but honestly Scott and 179 00:20:58,600 --> 00:21:06,760 I'm not this is nothing I did or that I've done or that I claim claim to be worthy of 180 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:15,320 but how did the father forgive the prodigal how did he watch and wait and yeah and yet 181 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:21,000 the other brother in that parable in Luke 15 the prodigal son out of that self-righteous 182 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:29,280 brother hold on to the bitterness of his dad throwing a celebration or party for the return 183 00:21:29,280 --> 00:21:39,640 of his son and honestly Scott it it has to do with where you're at in your understanding 184 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:48,600 and relationship with understanding of and relationship with Jesus Christ and his atonement 185 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:57,240 I because of my understanding of Jesus Christ and his atonement it could just totally immobilize 186 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:04,400 me or shut me down if I thought about all of the pain that my son has caused others 187 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:11,240 that happens to some yes in fact some people will it shuts them down so much they they 188 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:19,920 either leaves leave lose social contacts that shuts them down as far as their social relationships 189 00:22:19,920 --> 00:22:25,880 or maybe even church and other relations right yeah I've seen that but if you understand 190 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:33,680 the atonement of Jesus Christ and the compensatory blessings and powers of the atonement of Jesus 191 00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:42,400 Christ even though I'm sad yeah my heart is so filled with gratitude for Jesus Christ 192 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:48,920 is atonement that there's no bitterness towards my son because I know the Savior has covered 193 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:56,560 that and that any negatives that come out of that that those individuals will be covered 194 00:22:56,560 --> 00:23:03,360 unconditionally by the atonement of Jesus Christ again it still makes me sad I know there will 195 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:11,360 be negatives but I'm not bitter and I'm not hopeless because I know that the atonement 196 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:18,920 of Jesus Christ covers it yeah so there again is one of the foundations of the process of 197 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:26,160 repentance is to understand fully the power and gift of the atonement of Jesus Christ 198 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,760 there's something I kind of want to speak to a little bit right there you said and you're 199 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:35,560 right on this you said that it's through the compensatory powers that come to you and others 200 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:41,040 in your family through the atonement of Jesus Christ that allows this or gives that you the 201 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:47,040 ability to have this experience in your life which is peace producing and joy producing 202 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:52,680 right so we get that but I but I would also say that the redemptive powers and the enabling 203 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:58,040 powers come in with just as much force and efficacy as what you're talking about because 204 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:04,560 to know that your son yeah and you and all of us covered to have been redeemed yeah purchased 205 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:09,600 right we have been purchased already regardless of our response to that redemption we have 206 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,920 been redeemed redeemed right so that's that's a part of it the other one is exactly is because 207 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:18,800 of the enabling powers that come to you and others in your family through Christ's atonement 208 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,800 his power through his atonement that gives you the power the ability to do what you just 209 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:29,920 said as well now having said all that it's easy you know and I want to be sensitive and 210 00:24:29,920 --> 00:24:35,280 careful because I know that there may be some of our listeners that are really struggling 211 00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:42,320 still with this concept of forgiving others and maybe with great reason and I have zero 212 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,960 judgment and it's important it's not easy it's important that we say that to you know 213 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:52,080 we're not here saying look at us we've done this perfectly and you should too more do 214 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,960 we want to oversimplify it no but but the question always comes to me and I've had one of the 215 00:24:56,960 --> 00:25:03,640 blessings one of the gifts that's come to me as being a part of for my own recovery and 216 00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:09,360 to help others you know 24 plus years in Alcoholics Anonymous and other recovery programs one 217 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:16,520 of the blessings that has come to me from that is the ability to see so for example 218 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,600 you know I what what your son for example perpetrated and there's no other way to call 219 00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:29,800 it right he perpetrated was a response to perpetration against him at some point it's 220 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:38,880 true you know feel alcohol and and we don't know he went he was abused as a infant and 221 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:43,080 and we don't know what his abusers know we don't know we don't Scott and we don't know 222 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:50,600 what their abusers went through and and and on and on it goes and so maybe maybe this 223 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:58,600 maybe if if viewed in the right light and we shed the light of Christ on this maybe 224 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:04,400 that helps us to see how blessed we really are and through those blessings it can soften 225 00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:10,640 our hearts and give us the ability to with at least sympathy you know and and sometimes 226 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:16,200 for me it's created a great deal of sadness in my heart for somebody who has perpetrated 227 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:22,480 against others grievous I mean terrible terrible things yes but if we knew and sometimes we 228 00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:27,800 get the ability to have the ability to know but if we knew my gosh I I don't I I don't 229 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:33,200 know how I don't know how some people get through the things that they've gone through 230 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,640 and it doesn't come out worse than it actually has well you know what's interesting about 231 00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:45,200 this guy since we're talking about the cycle you know the intergenerational cycle of sin 232 00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:51,480 that's repeated over and over and over again generation to generation to generation somebody 233 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:59,000 has to break that cycle and the only one who can is the one who understands the atonement 234 00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:07,760 of Jesus Christ and applies his Christ our Savior's blood in their lives and their washed 235 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:13,080 clean it is so interesting and I'm sure all of our listeners can think of someone I'm 236 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:19,040 thinking of someone right now who I'm who I'm dealing with and trying to help and who's 237 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:29,800 who's close to me who you know despised the actions of his father you know despised his 238 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:41,040 father's actions when he was young when my friend was a young man and now he's repeating 239 00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:51,480 the same sins of his father and honestly I'm I guess I can't speak for him but I think 240 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:58,840 he uses that partly as an excuse or an entitlement yeah well and so he's a victim so he leaves 241 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:06,560 all these other victims in his wake yeah Scott it honestly I and I don't I'm not the judge 242 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:13,440 but and I don't mean to sound harsh but it's it has to stop the cycle has to stop and it 243 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:25,680 can only stop when an individual fully understands and applies the power of Jesus Christ through 244 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:33,040 his atonement in their lives yeah and if my son I guess the great regret I have is that 245 00:28:33,040 --> 00:28:39,640 somehow I didn't teach my son well enough to really understand and appreciate that about 246 00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:47,560 his his own life and that the atonement of Jesus Christ was not as active or had not 247 00:28:47,560 --> 00:28:55,000 been activated to the extent that it needed to be for him to stop the cycle and again 248 00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,320 maybe some people can't stop the cycle I'm not the judge I don't know their mental state 249 00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:04,480 how they're wired chemical imbalance all of that it's so complicated I know yeah but 250 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:15,680 I know Jesus Christ also knows and I know that there are individuals like and Alma and 251 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:23,760 his children who can break that cycle at Abraham Abraham who broke the cycle of having a wicked 252 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:30,520 father who was involved in terrible things and and Abraham becomes the father of nations 253 00:29:30,520 --> 00:29:35,160 so I know I know there are so many examples of that we even have living prophets president 254 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,480 Nelson I'm sure he had great parents but he had parents who weren't active in the church 255 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:44,560 and tells a story about going in the basement breaking the whiskey bottles and yet and yet 256 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:50,000 look at what he becomes and and he would be the first to tell us that it was because of 257 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:58,180 his understanding and applying the atonement of Jesus Christ in his life so the whole key 258 00:29:58,180 --> 00:30:08,000 to this process of forgiving others is the application again of the atonement of Jesus 259 00:30:08,000 --> 00:30:18,960 Christ in our life so I think in the book Elder Anderson wrote Scott one of my favorite 260 00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:27,560 stories in that chapter on this principle or this point this manifestation or evidence 261 00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:37,200 of repentance is page 227 and maybe maybe I can just read part of it or paraphrase thank 262 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:46,440 you he you know Richard Norby who's also a friend who was involved in the Institute 263 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:54,360 of Religion program as I was was the senior missionary who was bombed in Brussels and 264 00:30:54,360 --> 00:31:00,160 when the bomb went off he was in the zero zone where anybody in that zone should have 265 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:08,880 been killed and he miraculously wasn't but had he is he was forever and ever rest of 266 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:18,480 his mortal life affected by that event and anyway he was badly burned and spent months 267 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:25,660 and months and months in rehabilitation and he has he has really suffered and continues 268 00:31:25,660 --> 00:31:32,880 to fill the effects of it of it daily and Elder Anderson actually gave in one of his 269 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:41,760 conference talks tells the story about brother Norby well Richard Norby and this is in on 270 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:52,000 page 227 of the book Elder Anderson says Richard Norby when he thinks about what has happened 271 00:31:52,000 --> 00:32:01,640 to him and the victim that he was he does not think about the terrorists he chooses not 272 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:11,680 to focus on the terrorists or the bomb but rather he chooses to focus on Jesus Christ 273 00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:20,960 and the cross that's what he chooses to think about I've heard brother Norby actually tell 274 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:29,360 other others that and that's the key to it our thoughts should immediately turn to Jesus 275 00:32:29,360 --> 00:32:38,960 Christ when we either become victims or we have loved ones our loved ones become victims 276 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:49,320 from the sins of others Jesus not only suffered for the sins of all the world Scott but he 277 00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:58,400 suffered for all the negative effects of all the sins of all the world and we not only 278 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:06,800 need the power of Christ through his atonement in our life to be forgiven of sins but we 279 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:19,680 need the power of Christ through his atonement to be able to forgive sin and I I just it's 280 00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:28,400 just a matter of looking to Christ look unto me and every thought doubt not fear not and 281 00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:36,440 see the wounds in my hands and feet I think that if that be if that could be our focus 282 00:33:36,440 --> 00:33:46,000 it's so much easier to forgive the prophets are good at this Elder Anderson write some 283 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:50,280 things but I'll stop there for a minute Scott for you to to respond to anything you would 284 00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:56,480 like to say about it I'm just as you're talking I'm just having a few experiences go through 285 00:33:56,480 --> 00:34:04,160 my recollection mind right a few because initially I think you know have I ever really been offended 286 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:09,200 to the point where it would be difficult for me to forgive somebody and and apparently 287 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:15,800 you know as I think on that apparently the spirit does a good job in helping us to also 288 00:34:15,800 --> 00:34:20,800 not just forgive but sometimes even forget at least maybe on a temporary basis but you 289 00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:25,320 know as I put my mind back in process and think about some of the things I'm I recall 290 00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:34,240 the inexperience that I had I was maybe four or five years sober and I'm in a meeting and 291 00:34:34,240 --> 00:34:39,160 a man walks into a meeting he's brand new and I'd never hadn't hadn't seen him I'd seen 292 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:44,600 him but not in a meeting and this man and I'm not going to go into any detail because 293 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:50,440 some of our listeners you know that it will affect but but there this man walks in and 294 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:56,480 had created a ton of turmoil it not just in my life but in the life of a lot of people 295 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:02,880 that I loved and at that point in my recovery and that point in my recovery from not just 296 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,880 alcoholism but from the natural man at that point in my recovery you know this was something 297 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:13,280 that was still really difficult for me to deal with David and and I had my sponsor was there 298 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:19,440 not LDS but great great man and he was there and he could tell something was disturbing 299 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:23,040 me and when the meeting was over he come up to me he says what in the heck is wrong with 300 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:26,680 you and I explained to him he already knew the situation because we had talked about 301 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:33,680 it and it had been a point of of concern and a point of aggregate aggravation for me for 302 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:38,520 for a few five or six years actually up to this point now he hadn't offended me directly 303 00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:44,720 but had others in my family people that I loved my my sponsor his name was John at the time 304 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,320 said to me he says what is wrong with you and I told him I said that's the guy and I 305 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,040 says and I know what you're going to tell me you're going to tell me go pray for him 306 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:56,120 he says I'm not going to tell you to pray for him until you can pray for you he said 307 00:35:56,120 --> 00:36:02,200 you need to get right you need to be okay with this you know and that helped me now 308 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:10,680 that guy and I he's passed now unfortunately died from really sad tragic situations later 309 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:16,240 but he and I you know over the years this has been 16 now it's been almost 20 years 310 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:21,040 ago now but over the years he and I became not just friends not just acquaintances but 311 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:28,000 we were able to put stuff aside and become kind of close to each other because what 312 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,640 I was able to realize is that he had been through some really difficult things in his 313 00:36:32,640 --> 00:36:38,440 life and when I learned of those things my empathy for him just compassion just swelled 314 00:36:38,440 --> 00:36:44,560 within me you know and he for me and you know it's just really interesting how as we see 315 00:36:44,560 --> 00:36:49,960 the Savior and come to know him like we've talked about which is so important how we 316 00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:54,880 begin to see each other and others differently than that man and when we talk about forgiveness 317 00:36:54,880 --> 00:37:02,760 David one of the Savior's great roles he has many but one of his great roles is not to 318 00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:09,720 just provide a way for us to be forgiven but also provide that forgiveness and when we 319 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:15,920 are to forgive when we exercise that same power in our own lives we might not ever be 320 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:22,000 more Christ like than we are in those moments David so Scott we haven't discussed this but 321 00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:30,920 let me just ask you a question why wouldn't someone pray to God for power to forgive others 322 00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:36,960 yeah yeah why wouldn't they there's several reasons I want you to talk about this and 323 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:43,920 to talk about what is the payoff yeah that some people have yep by not forgiving what's 324 00:37:43,920 --> 00:37:51,520 the payoff by being a victim or what's the payoff for being angry and bitter towards 325 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,480 others for the hurt they've caused you or loved ones what's the pay off I have a lot 326 00:37:55,480 --> 00:38:02,440 of experience with this because of my association with these kinds of things in recovery specifically 327 00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,840 you know I've seen it also in you know my various church responsibilities and colleagues 328 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:12,640 but I've seen it more probably more frequently in recovery there is a payoff for example 329 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:18,640 let's just all consider you know we make a mistake and it's a big mistake and it's embarrassing 330 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:23,960 and you know and it causes somebody harm and and down the road it's you know it's been 331 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:30,080 months maybe even years and it creates all kinds of hell in our own lives and because 332 00:38:30,080 --> 00:38:34,280 of that hell that we're experiencing in our own lives we develop a new personality and 333 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:43,160 that personality has a lot to do with I can't be responsible and we begin to decline in 334 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:49,240 our responsibility and we begin to decline in our ability to have positive social interaction 335 00:38:49,240 --> 00:38:54,480 and we begin to just kind of decline in all areas of our lives when that happens and I 336 00:38:54,480 --> 00:39:00,200 know many of us as I'm even saying this are probably relating to that thinking yeah that's 337 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:05,000 me right now or yeah that's been me in the past I've definitely have felt that and and 338 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,680 maybe this is something I can watch out for in the future because here's what happens 339 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:14,400 at some point we find ourselves and I've seen this maybe I have even experienced it to a 340 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:19,440 degree in my own life but one day we wake up and we say who am I and how in the heck 341 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:23,640 did I get here my life is so much different than I thought it would be I'm not happy I'm 342 00:39:23,640 --> 00:39:29,960 not joyous I'm not free from the bondage of the the circumstances and many many other 343 00:39:29,960 --> 00:39:38,400 things and so it's created a a a person of me who has become irresponsible to all of 344 00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:43,240 the things responsible in my life does that make sense so far yeah okay absolutely and 345 00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:49,200 so if that's the case there is a certain you know we read in in we I think we read it just 346 00:39:49,200 --> 00:39:54,360 a couple weeks ago maybe you can tell us a reference but you know Satan he'll lull us 347 00:39:54,360 --> 00:40:02,080 away causing us to say yay all is well in Zion yay Zion and so when he does that he 348 00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:08,800 has or when we do that he has the ability in us to create that sense of apathy that sense 349 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:15,000 of not trying that sense of giving up that sent and we're justified in our not that sense 350 00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:21,160 of not being accountable yeah big one right yeah a big big big if I'm a victim then why 351 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,720 could I be if I then I'm not accountable if I'm bitter then why could I be accountable 352 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:32,240 right accountable to what I mean to just be in a decent person sometimes the payoff is 353 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:41,440 that it becomes an excuse that's exactly it for my unhappiness or my misery or my my sins 354 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:48,720 that I commit and we use it don't we to be we do and the fallacy there is is we think 355 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:53,240 well it would be too much work because we have two choices you know we've talked in 356 00:40:53,240 --> 00:40:57,400 the past there's two wolves that live inside us you know the old Indian proverb right 357 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:01,120 at Native American proverb there's two or one you feel when you feed that's the one 358 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:08,240 anger peace joy sorrow I mean and we can contrast these two wolves in however way we want to 359 00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:14,320 in this way we're categorizing them in peace sorrow forgiveness non-forgiveness they're 360 00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:21,800 kind of the same right and so if if I if I hold on to that and harbor that and I don't 361 00:41:21,800 --> 00:41:28,680 have to be responsible for the hard work that in my mind I see in front of me if I were 362 00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:35,200 to overcome this challenge or if I were to become responsible for my own feelings emotions 363 00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:40,440 and attitudes etc that's going to take a ton of work what we don't realize on me not on 364 00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:46,320 them it's all if we see it that way yeah right which is erroneous right it's not on me but 365 00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:52,320 the enemy wants us to see it's evil being on me because then it makes it more daunting 366 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,680 more impossible for me to accomplish what I want what I say I want to accomplish I say 367 00:41:57,680 --> 00:42:04,320 I want joy I say I want peace well do I really because is or is the payoff to stay stuck 368 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:10,600 you know and I'll just call it that just if the payoff to stay stuck is greater than the 369 00:42:10,600 --> 00:42:16,000 payoff to get well will stay stuck yeah and sometimes that payoff to stay stuck is I get 370 00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:20,920 people paying attention to me I don't have to apologize when I'm wrong everybody walk 371 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:25,680 on eggshells around me I have a chip on my show I mean and it can and maybe not even 372 00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:32,960 that way maybe I was drawn I've become a role exactly role they feel they have to fulfill 373 00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:38,000 and it can look a lot of different ways at the heart of it it becomes an identity and 374 00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:44,800 that's right and Satan has put a certain identity on them and they feel like that's who they 375 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:51,800 really truly are and and really Scott I I don't want to sensationalize it but but it's 376 00:42:51,800 --> 00:42:57,160 Satan who uses these things against us right and and he'll say and he'll whisper to us 377 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:03,320 it's so that would be so hard to change that would be so hard to forgive it would be so 378 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:11,200 hard to become unstucked and it and it's really not it's just it's really just focusing on 379 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:16,000 Jesus Christ I know it takes effort I know it takes focus I know it takes work it takes 380 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:24,280 great fair prayer it takes a lot of faith you know there's work involved in it but the 381 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:34,600 the payoff of that is peace and love and joy and all the fruits of the spirit I all of 382 00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:42,320 us you and me all our listeners need to ask yourself am I stuck you know what what what 383 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:47,880 am I stuck on what what have I not yeah I able to let go and move on from that's the 384 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:54,960 right way to ask that question because we're all stuck in some place in our lives and at 385 00:43:54,960 --> 00:44:00,960 some level we're all stuck as part of the the effects of the fall yeah and you know 386 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:07,640 and as we see that I'm stuck as being the big payoff in our life because again if I'm 387 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:13,320 stuck for example I won't have to if I if I'm stuck in and I don't want please don't 388 00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,400 misunderstand what I'm saying here I know there are levels of depression that are organic 389 00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:23,600 that can't be controlled I get all that I really do and I realize that some so much 390 00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:32,280 of that is not a choice but sometimes it can be and when it is that choice can be so comfortable 391 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:38,640 for us to just sit in our own garbage and and not have to take any action and it's the 392 00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:45,840 not accountability that's it no agency we choose to be acted upon instead of choosing 393 00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:54,760 to act that's right right second Nephi chapter 2 Nephi over early hi teaching us over and 394 00:44:54,760 --> 00:45:04,800 over again and finally Scott on this on this principle and we can't say this strong enough 395 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:13,560 it's a commandment it is a commandment to forgive others Jesus has repeated it it's his own 396 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:21,000 words from his own mouth over and over again in the scriptures we are commanded to forgive 397 00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:30,160 and if we don't forgive he won't forgive us we will not be forgiven and on that point 398 00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:38,200 Nephi said that speaking to his father I know the Lord give us no commandments under the 399 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:46,800 children of men save he shall prepare away for them that they may accomplish the thing 400 00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:52,160 which he commanded them well it may be no other commandment is that more obvious than 401 00:45:52,160 --> 00:46:02,000 in this one where it's not us who really can do it it's a gift from him he will prepare 402 00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:09,280 away for us that we will forgive if we will pray for it if we will desire it if we'll 403 00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:17,080 exercise faith in our efforts to forgive he will prepare away and he will help us to keep 404 00:46:17,080 --> 00:46:25,800 this commandment but we just have to really emphasize there is a commandment it is it 405 00:46:25,800 --> 00:46:32,800 is an essential commandment to the promise and the blessing to be able to be forgiven 406 00:46:32,800 --> 00:46:42,680 and to forgive ourselves is that we must forgive others yeah and and that is when again we 407 00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:48,600 in my estimation that's when we become Christ like in a way that we will never be able to 408 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:53,920 become Christ like without having done so I mean it's just period and the conversation 409 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:59,840 right there I mean that's just really what it's all about I just don't think the words 410 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:06,440 are I mean these are really powerful strong words in doctrine comes in 64 verse 9 wherefore 411 00:47:06,440 --> 00:47:13,280 I say unto you that ye ought to forgive one another for he that forgives not his brother 412 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:21,160 his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord for their remaineth in him the greater 413 00:47:21,160 --> 00:47:32,600 sin that's amazing Scott that the greater sin of us not being willing to forgive others 414 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:39,600 the greater sin is in us than those who have even heard us I the Lord will forgive whom 415 00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:52,160 I will forgive but of you it is required to forgive all men all men and Scott I know you 416 00:47:52,160 --> 00:48:06,960 know there's just so much unrest and confusion and people being upset contentious angry because 417 00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:12,120 of what others are doing who we may not even have a personal relationship with you know 418 00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:18,960 it may be political it may be others that we hear about or we watch the news or whatever 419 00:48:18,960 --> 00:48:27,760 and it gets us so upset and and we have to forgive we have to forgive on a daily basis 420 00:48:27,760 --> 00:48:32,280 really if we want peace and if we want the spirit of the Lord we have to forgive on a 421 00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:39,920 daily basis and we should pray for ourselves right to do that and we should pray for others 422 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:46,680 there you go anyway I I just well and and you know and as we're praying for others 423 00:48:46,680 --> 00:48:52,680 I and I do this one of the prayers that as I'm praying for my you know in quotation 424 00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:57,160 marks here enemies which were counseled to do which I really don't have enemies but those 425 00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,680 that may offend me or as I'm praying for those what I'm really praying for David and you 426 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:10,080 said this a few minutes ago is Satan will try to confuse us of our identities and confuse 427 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:15,480 us of other people's identities right yes and so you know what I pray for is Heavenly 428 00:49:15,480 --> 00:49:21,760 Father bless me to see him the way you do that would be a good prayer bless me to understand 429 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:28,600 maybe not in detail but or maybe in detail or whatever but whatever would be your will 430 00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:35,640 bless me with the ability to know you know what what challenges what what fears what 431 00:49:35,640 --> 00:49:41,560 is it in this person's life would create this kind of behavior yeah that's so good Scott 432 00:49:41,560 --> 00:49:45,040 and then also David be and I'm you're gonna make another point here but before you do 433 00:49:45,040 --> 00:49:50,840 that you you talked about the Savior gives us a great example you know and he talks to 434 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:56,040 us throughout all of Scripture and talks to us about the importance of forgiveness and 435 00:49:56,040 --> 00:50:01,200 how we can do it but he gave us the greatest example while he's hanging on the cross one 436 00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:10,600 of the very few final things he said Father forgive them for they know not what they do 437 00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:19,200 thank you elder Holland just a few years ago in October General Conference 2018 forgive 438 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:28,960 and ye shall be forgiven Christ taught I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive but 439 00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:37,840 of you it is required commanded to forgive all men it is however important this elder 440 00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:44,120 Holland it is however important for some of you living in real anguish to know what he 441 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:52,600 did not say he did not say you are not allowed to feel true pain or real sorrow from the 442 00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:59,900 shattering experiences you have had at the hand of another nor did he say in order to 443 00:50:59,900 --> 00:51:08,880 forgive fully you have to re-enter a toxic relationship or return to an abusive destructive 444 00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:16,840 circumstance he didn't say that but not withstanding even the most terrible offenses that might 445 00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:26,560 come to us we can rise above our pain but only when we put our feet onto the path of 446 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:39,520 true healing and that path is the forgiving one walked by Jesus of Nazareth I know Scott 447 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:47,960 that there is pain and there is hearts that are shattered and there there are wet pillows 448 00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:56,440 at night because of all of the pain in the world and the pain that sin causes that I 449 00:51:56,440 --> 00:52:04,640 just really love how elder Anderson worded this paragraph it's one of my one of my favorite 450 00:52:04,640 --> 00:52:14,680 here in his book the divine gift of forgiveness elder Anderson wrote forgiveness is not excusing 451 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:22,920 accountability or failing to protect ourselves our families and other innocent victims forgiveness 452 00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:32,240 is not continuing in a relationship with someone who is not trustworthy forgiveness is not 453 00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:41,800 condoning or excusing injustice forgiveness is not dismissing the hurt or the disgust 454 00:52:41,800 --> 00:52:54,080 we feel because of the actions of others forgiveness is not forgetting but it is remembering in 455 00:52:54,080 --> 00:53:02,760 peace I that may take some time for others more time for others and maybe others and 456 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:08,720 that we that again that comes as a gift but it's it's not forgetting I don't think for 457 00:53:08,720 --> 00:53:14,680 giving is forgetting I think again it's a gift from God that we don't forget actually 458 00:53:14,680 --> 00:53:20,480 so that we won't be hurt over and over and over again by maybe the same individuals but 459 00:53:20,480 --> 00:53:30,400 for but forgiving is remembering it or what them or whatever in peace through Jesus Christ 460 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:38,880 yes through Jesus Christ that's the key and and president oop Dorf when he was in the 461 00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:46,960 first presidency he he made this statement remember heaven is filled with those who have 462 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:57,760 this one thing in common they are forgiven and they forgive I love that remember heaven 463 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:06,560 is filled with those who have this one thing in common they are forgiven and they forgive 464 00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:14,240 lay your burden at the Savior's feet he says let go of judgment allow Christ's atonement 465 00:54:14,240 --> 00:54:23,680 to change and heal your heart love one another forgive one another the merciful will obtain 466 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:31,920 mercy that's from the April amazing talk unforgiveness by the way by president oop Dorf in April of 467 00:54:32,480 --> 00:54:40,000 2012 so I know it's a commandment and I know that it's a commandment that we can all keep 468 00:54:40,000 --> 00:54:46,080 not easy no commandments are but so worth the effort because of the peace it brings and we've 469 00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:51,120 been promised God one of my favorite scriptures in well I think it's my favorite section the 470 00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:58,880 doctrine comes section 93 and in section 93 it's kind of john the Baptist recounting his 471 00:54:58,880 --> 00:55:05,520 little experience with Jesus and and we have this really precious line you shall receive grace for 472 00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:14,000 grace I know that's true for us I know that as we offer grace and mercy to others that it always 473 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:21,840 comes back to us and also one of my favorite lines from preach my gospel and I'm sure it's in 474 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:30,800 the new preach my gospel as well but this is it as our understanding of the atonement of Jesus 475 00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:39,040 Christ increases our ability to forgive others and ourselves increases I know that's I know 476 00:55:39,040 --> 00:55:50,480 that's true so I I hope that all of us can think about who it is that maybe we need to forgive 477 00:55:50,480 --> 00:55:57,760 who it is that is maybe making it difficult for us to to move on and make the progress that we 478 00:55:57,760 --> 00:56:05,600 need progression that we need to make to who are kind of because we're stuck root bound we're not 479 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:13,520 growing the way we should grow because our roots are not sunk deep deep enough into the atonement 480 00:56:13,520 --> 00:56:22,160 of Jesus Christ and we are not receiving the blood and the blessings of the atonement of Jesus 481 00:56:22,160 --> 00:56:28,640 Christ into our life as it should be ministered into our life through the gift of the Holy Ghost 482 00:56:28,640 --> 00:56:37,440 so I I just hope and pray that all of us can ponder how this may apply to us because ultimately 483 00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:47,680 it's the final manifestation of our efforts to repent and to be forgiven by God is us receiving 484 00:56:47,680 --> 00:56:56,800 the gift paying the price doing the work to receive the gift of being able to forgive others 485 00:56:56,800 --> 00:57:03,840 that we might be able to be forgiven and then forgive ourselves which we'll talk more about 486 00:57:03,840 --> 00:57:09,760 and I I think Scott one last thing for me is a lot of people maybe ask the question or asking 487 00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:15,760 them themselves right now how do I know if I have forgiven them I think it's been helpful over the 488 00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:23,440 years as I've taught this and have experimented with this in my own life I have just a little 489 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:31,600 list here of how do you know you have forgiven others one you are able to pray for them 490 00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:46,720 sincerely to you see them as a child of God with mercy and grace three you feel God's love for 491 00:57:46,720 --> 00:57:57,120 them you get a glimpse of how he sees them and feel his love for them four you are not angry 492 00:57:57,760 --> 00:58:12,880 or bitter five you have no resentment towards them six you understand and feel the Lord's love 493 00:58:12,880 --> 00:58:24,960 and the power of his atonement in your own life when when you can all of those are I think 494 00:58:25,680 --> 00:58:35,200 evidences of how do we know if we have forgiven others even though again there may be still some 495 00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:43,920 pain there may be still some sorrow there may be still be some hurt but you know you forgiven 496 00:58:44,560 --> 00:58:52,880 and you know that it's only a matter of time before even our tears he will wipe away our tears 497 00:58:52,880 --> 00:59:01,200 from our eyes and that it will all be behind us there's a there's a deep freedom that comes when 498 00:59:01,200 --> 00:59:08,240 we find the ability to forgive others there's a there's a just an absolute sense of release 499 00:59:08,880 --> 00:59:13,680 from that bondage when that happens I've seen it I felt it in my own life I've seen it in 500 00:59:13,680 --> 00:59:20,320 the lives of others and and I invite us all as we conclude here today that let's as we go through 501 00:59:20,320 --> 00:59:27,200 this week and especially as we sit at the sacrament table this Sunday and we renew covenants and 502 00:59:27,200 --> 00:59:34,720 commitments and our love and devotion to to him to Jesus and to our heavenly Father but as we're 503 00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:39,920 sitting there I hope it's I hope it's in our hearts and I hope that it's on our thoughts and on our 504 00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:47,440 minds to be praying for ourselves and those for whom we should be providing and extending at some 505 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:53,920 point forgiveness as we've been commanded to do it's it's our prayer it's our hope that all of us 506 00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:59,040 will fill not just our own redemption but the redemption of others and that we will have the 507 00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:04,720 ability to see others in our lives and in their lives the way our heavenly Father sees them 508 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:10,640 I'm grateful to know that through his atonement all things all these things are possible thanks 509 01:00:10,640 --> 01:00:15,520 for being with us we look forward to being with you again next week until then have a great week 510 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:26,640 everybody