Hey there everybody welcome back for another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood.
Scott Durfey here joined as always by Dave Durfey.
What's up Dave?
Great day Scott. It's thankful to be able to talk about such an important principle
of the gospel forgiving ourselves and others in the repentance process.
This is one where we, when we really get to start taking an introspective look, there's
so often Dave I think that you know this word forgiveness which is really where we come
to at this point in our discussion but this word forgiveness is, it can contain and hold
on to so much emotion for so many of us that I just love when we're able to talk about
this and maybe personally it gives me an opportunity to kind of reflect and take another inventory
which I should be doing on a more regular basis when it comes to forgiveness both of myself
and others but you know this really is where we kind of go next isn't it in the discussion
around repentance and forgiveness.
Absolutely. So we've talked about the foundations of repentance, we've talked about the actions
of repentance and now we're talking about the manifestations of repentance Scott.
And the manifestations of repentance really are that the confession by this the Lord says
in doctrine coming to section 58 by this you may know if a man has repented of his sins
he will confess them and forsake them.
So those are manifestations or evidence of our repentance confessing and forsaking. We've
talked about those last week we talked about rep making restitution again through the power
and the atonement of Jesus Christ with grace and mercy and help enabling power and strength
all along the way through this process Scott the Lord helps us blesses us through his atoning
sacrifice and restitution we talked about that how focusing on him suffering for what
was lost as a result of our sins and that all can be restored even virtue can be restored
if we have lost ours or have stolen it from someone else that even virtue can be restored
through the atonement of Jesus Christ which I don't we can't comprehend that or know how
but that's the miracle and power of Jesus Christ through his atonement.
And now today the final manifestation really of repentance and I know it affects every
single person out there all of those who are listening you and me and every member of our
family is the final manifestation is the ability to forgive ourselves and to forgive others.
And I know that so many people wrestle with this Scott it's it's so hard and I I understand
that I've been there and I know that it's hard and everybody circumstances is different
I can't compare my experiences to anybody else nobody else can compare their experiences
to me or to you so it just depends but while there are some amazing miracles Scott that
I know of in my own life and in the lives of others that through again Jesus Christ
in his atonement power can be given to us to forgive and to forgive to forgive others
and to forgive ourselves it's it's really always troubled me for many years now Scott
when I hear people say you just have to forgive yourself you just got to forgive yourself
you just got to move on and forgive yourself and I think don't please don't shortcut this
process don't short circuit it I really believe Scott that when someone understands that deity
has forgiven them when they truly feel forgiven by the Lord when they can recognize the power
gift and influence of the of the Holy Ghost in their life when they know that Jesus Christ
blood has been applied and wash their garments clean and they feel clean and they know it
Scott it's quite simple after that to forgive yourself and I I just I just have this hypothesis
that others will have to experiment with that I think when someone knows they're forgiven
they will forgive themselves that's why I think it's a manifestation of repentance if
so if one wants to know if they've really repented they will forgive themselves because
because they have done all that was required of them and they know that they're forgiven
by the Lord if the Lord forgives us the C. S. Lewis says if the Lord God forgives us who
are we to be a higher tribunal and judge than God even towards ourselves so this is a manifestation
of repentance because one knows that they've been forgiven one should know they've been
forgiven and one should feel the spirit when they feel that the Lord has forgiven them and
then I think it's quite simple again not always everybody circumstances different I understand
the psychological emotional pains that can be caused by others in our lives but they
can forgive themselves and they can forgive others through the power of Jesus Christ
and His Atonement and through the gift of the Holy Ghost I think that's one of the reasons
why we don't just jump into forgiveness right out of the gate right I mean this is ultimately
the goal kind of the final it's kind of the end game why we do the repentance right know
you're forgiven and forgive yourself and others that's right that's kind of the end
game of this whole repentance and turning to him processes to fill that forgiveness
and to be able to afford ourselves are that same forgiveness which may sometimes even
be I don't know arguably even more difficult but you know if we if we were to just jump
right to forgiveness and if we were to just say hey all right everybody let's everybody
get together forget everything that's happened let's just have a let's just talk about forgiveness
and why it's so important I mean that would be it would have some power it would have
some effect there's no doubt efficacious there it would be inspiring to bring peace
to some degree in our life but until and unless we fully understand or begin to make a full
effort that's probably the best way to say that until we make a full effort to understand
the atonement of Jesus Christ and go through the actions of repentance remember the actions
of repentance right crying out if we're exactly if we don't have that crying out experience
if we don't have the ability or or or make an attempt to offer our whole souls in our
sins in our in our broken lives all of the effects of the fall if we don't make that
effort to offer that to him then this forgiveness part of it will really be difficult and in
many cases maybe even all to you know the full degree impossible for us to achieve so
yeah you know I think that it's important that we remember that that we bring all of
those feelings and emotions back into this conversation today back into our into our souls
and our psyches today as we begin to process and consider forgiveness of others and in
towards ourselves ultimately and you know maybe even finally I don't know but in our
own lives that until we have that connection with and faith in Jesus and faith in his name
and the ability to make covenants and bring all of those things into our lives this is
really a difficult thing so having said that is just kind of a preface to where we're going
to go if for whatever reason we're feeling uneasy or if for whatever reason some of these
things are really difficult for us to swallow or consider let's go back let's go back in
time let's go back in our experience of what we've been talking about over the last quite
a while now let's go back and let's take into consideration that crying out and that offering
our souls to him because as we do that then it makes it easier for us to do what we're
talking about David well Scott I know you've had the experience of knowing that you're
forgiven of some of your sins or all of your sins and this is again as a process we're
never through repenting in this life but I've and I've shared my experience of repending
over and over and over again trying to become clean when I went on my mission and and not
knowing if I was worthy and writing letters home and trying to do everything I could and
and feeling guilty and and bad about myself but working so hard to be a worthy missionary
and and then I had that that experience in Pacific Grove California and and it was an
experience it was an event where I knew that I was clean I knew that I was forgiven from
that moment on I forgave myself still had regret still had you know some some some sorrowful
feelings about about my sins as anybody I think would but they didn't eat me up I wasn't
I was I was I was guiltless Scott that's the only way I can describe it I was guiltless
I was blameless I didn't blame myself I didn't blame others I wasn't a victim I of sin or
victim of other sins Scott it it completely changed the trajectory of not only my mission
but of my life to know that when one knows that they're forgiven again going through
the actions laying the foundations of repentance and crying out with a broken heart contrite
spirit offering our sins sacrificing our will to God and you feel this confirmation wash
over you that you are clean that you are redeemed that you are forgiven honestly I didn't even
have to try to forgive myself Scott and I just think so many people who are are having still
a hard time to not I know I know there are some more with sensitive spirits and it's
I know it's complicated I'm not meaning to oversimplify this process but my experience
is that it comes as a gift it's not something that I can just through repetition I forgive
myself I forgive myself I forgive myself I forgive myself and brainwash myself to be
forgiven because that's not the way repentance or redemption works but when one knows where
they stand with God and that they've had a divine experience it's I don't even think
you really need to try to forgive yourself well because it comes it comes as part of
the effects of that divine experience that you're talking about yeah because I I haven't
I've had that same experience that you just described now but it's taken me a long time
in my life to have that experience you know I tried to have that experience while I was
on my mission and and you know maybe I did to a degree I do remember a night and rent
rent in Washington you know where I had just an absolute spiritual manifestation that if
I hadn't been forgiven it would have been impossible for me to have that I realized
that there you go you know and I realized that then you know but but since then and here's
that you know here's what's really kind of clouded it for me is since then is I made
a lot of other stupid decisions I've made a lot of other mistakes I created a lot of
a lot more distance between me and the spirit by my own actions and that's been difficult
it's not now but that had been difficult for me to to overcome by way of you know offering
forgiveness to myself at least and I I think that you know we'll talk about forgiving ourselves
as we go along but I think right now we probably should talk more about forgiving others well
we should because if we don't forgive others God has said he won't forgive us right so
I we are I am kind of jumping ahead we need to forgive others first in order for God to
forgive us and then when God forgives us it's easier for us to forgive ourselves that's
right and I think it's it's usually in that order I actually believe Scott that that's
one of the major roadblocks of us feeling forgiven and it keeps us from forgiving ourselves
is our inability unwillingness to receive the gift and the power from God through Jesus
Christ and his atonement and the administration of the Holy Ghost in our life to forgive others
there's a lot of pain that people are experiencing and have experienced in their life and I'm
not saying that all of that goes away psychological and and emotional pain and all of that but
they're able to let it go because they know that Jesus Christ has taken it from them and
he carried it not only this is where the miraculous part of the atonement of Jesus Christ is incomprehensible
he not only paid for our sins and met the demands of justice but he suffered for all
of the sins committed against us all of our suffering all of our pains all of our sicknesses
caused by ourselves or others and he did that through his suffering in Gethsemane and on
the cross so if we just are able to give it to him then we don't have to carry it you
started off the that last thing that you just said with you know some of us have the inability
or unwillingness to forgive others or ourselves and and it feels like that doesn't it it feels
like an inability but it's not really an inability we have the ability but you but you hit you
as a gift that gift has to come as a gift of the spirit and that gift of the spirit you
just describe that that gift of the spirit is the administration of the Holy Ghost in
our lives and then that gives us the ability you know we we we it does feel like sometimes
our hands are tied it does feel like sometimes and I've experienced this and I and I know
there are others who have had to forgive others in their lives with stories that I just can't
even begin to comprehend personally but you know as difficult as it has it has been for
me to sometimes forgive others in the past but you hit the nail on the head or you you
talked about the key of all of that is to live my life in a way that allows the spirit
to be present in my life when the spirit's present in my life in my life then that inability
changes from not just inability but it gives me not just the ability but the desire because
that desire as I feel that desire that draws me closer to him and you know and I'm not
sure which comes first or if it's all kind of at the same time the desire to come closer
or that drawing closer brings the desire but it may come all at once and I think that's
the spiritual gift right it's the willingness desire and strength yeah and power yeah and
it's the the willingness to receive that in our life that that makes all the difference
Scott you know I I think one of the hardest things to forgive is when we know that the
actions of others have continued to kind of perpetuate the pain yeah over and over and
over and it becomes intergenerational and you know and anyway I think for example sexual
abuse I have a son who's a sex offender you know this little boy that we adopt a little
boy in 1991 when we adopted him and now and now he's a man and he's been in prison and
I listeners I know know this but anyway one of the hardest things to do in forgiving others
is when you know the pain they have caused those that you love and even people that
maybe you've never met before and your heart goes out to those individuals where there
have been victims in the wake of others choices decisions and actions and when I honestly
Scott I when you see your wife weep and wail and cry and or you see others who you love
you know who are deeply hurt because of the actions of others it's pretty hard to to no
one can take that lightly and just brush that aside it it hurts you if others who you really
love are hurting and you know I I've experienced that I think in the greatest pain in my life
is not what others have done to me but what others have done to members of my family who
I who I love and it's harder for me to forgive those individuals who've hurt members of my
family in the case of our son the pain that he caused my sweetheart the pain that he's
caused others you would think Scott that that would be really hard for me to forgive and
I know that in some families that may that could almost destroy a family yeah yeah I've
seen that we both yeah that that individual that prodigal that prodigal son could be what's
the word could be cast out yeah shunned shunned disowned disowned yeah yeah ashamed of there's
just so many emotions that and it happens all the time in families but honestly Scott and
I'm not this is nothing I did or that I've done or that I claim claim to be worthy of
but how did the father forgive the prodigal how did he watch and wait and yeah and yet
the other brother in that parable in Luke 15 the prodigal son out of that self-righteous
brother hold on to the bitterness of his dad throwing a celebration or party for the return
of his son and honestly Scott it it has to do with where you're at in your understanding
and relationship with understanding of and relationship with Jesus Christ and his atonement
I because of my understanding of Jesus Christ and his atonement it could just totally immobilize
me or shut me down if I thought about all of the pain that my son has caused others
that happens to some yes in fact some people will it shuts them down so much they they
either leaves leave lose social contacts that shuts them down as far as their social relationships
or maybe even church and other relations right yeah I've seen that but if you understand
the atonement of Jesus Christ and the compensatory blessings and powers of the atonement of Jesus
Christ even though I'm sad yeah my heart is so filled with gratitude for Jesus Christ
is atonement that there's no bitterness towards my son because I know the Savior has covered
that and that any negatives that come out of that that those individuals will be covered
unconditionally by the atonement of Jesus Christ again it still makes me sad I know there will
be negatives but I'm not bitter and I'm not hopeless because I know that the atonement
of Jesus Christ covers it yeah so there again is one of the foundations of the process of
repentance is to understand fully the power and gift of the atonement of Jesus Christ
there's something I kind of want to speak to a little bit right there you said and you're
right on this you said that it's through the compensatory powers that come to you and others
in your family through the atonement of Jesus Christ that allows this or gives that you the
ability to have this experience in your life which is peace producing and joy producing
right so we get that but I but I would also say that the redemptive powers and the enabling
powers come in with just as much force and efficacy as what you're talking about because
to know that your son yeah and you and all of us covered to have been redeemed yeah purchased
right we have been purchased already regardless of our response to that redemption we have
been redeemed redeemed right so that's that's a part of it the other one is exactly is because
of the enabling powers that come to you and others in your family through Christ's atonement
his power through his atonement that gives you the power the ability to do what you just
said as well now having said all that it's easy you know and I want to be sensitive and
careful because I know that there may be some of our listeners that are really struggling
still with this concept of forgiving others and maybe with great reason and I have zero
judgment and it's important it's not easy it's important that we say that to you know
we're not here saying look at us we've done this perfectly and you should too more do
we want to oversimplify it no but but the question always comes to me and I've had one of the
blessings one of the gifts that's come to me as being a part of for my own recovery and
to help others you know 24 plus years in Alcoholics Anonymous and other recovery programs one
of the blessings that has come to me from that is the ability to see so for example
you know I what what your son for example perpetrated and there's no other way to call
it right he perpetrated was a response to perpetration against him at some point it's
true you know feel alcohol and and we don't know he went he was abused as a infant and
and we don't know what his abusers know we don't know we don't Scott and we don't know
what their abusers went through and and and on and on it goes and so maybe maybe this
maybe if if viewed in the right light and we shed the light of Christ on this maybe
that helps us to see how blessed we really are and through those blessings it can soften
our hearts and give us the ability to with at least sympathy you know and and sometimes
for me it's created a great deal of sadness in my heart for somebody who has perpetrated
against others grievous I mean terrible terrible things yes but if we knew and sometimes we
get the ability to have the ability to know but if we knew my gosh I I don't I I don't
know how I don't know how some people get through the things that they've gone through
and it doesn't come out worse than it actually has well you know what's interesting about
this guy since we're talking about the cycle you know the intergenerational cycle of sin
that's repeated over and over and over again generation to generation to generation somebody
has to break that cycle and the only one who can is the one who understands the atonement
of Jesus Christ and applies his Christ our Savior's blood in their lives and their washed
clean it is so interesting and I'm sure all of our listeners can think of someone I'm
thinking of someone right now who I'm who I'm dealing with and trying to help and who's
who's close to me who you know despised the actions of his father you know despised his
father's actions when he was young when my friend was a young man and now he's repeating
the same sins of his father and honestly I'm I guess I can't speak for him but I think
he uses that partly as an excuse or an entitlement yeah well and so he's a victim so he leaves
all these other victims in his wake yeah Scott it honestly I and I don't I'm not the judge
but and I don't mean to sound harsh but it's it has to stop the cycle has to stop and it
can only stop when an individual fully understands and applies the power of Jesus Christ through
his atonement in their lives yeah and if my son I guess the great regret I have is that
somehow I didn't teach my son well enough to really understand and appreciate that about
his his own life and that the atonement of Jesus Christ was not as active or had not
been activated to the extent that it needed to be for him to stop the cycle and again
maybe some people can't stop the cycle I'm not the judge I don't know their mental state
how they're wired chemical imbalance all of that it's so complicated I know yeah but
I know Jesus Christ also knows and I know that there are individuals like and Alma and
his children who can break that cycle at Abraham Abraham who broke the cycle of having a wicked
father who was involved in terrible things and and Abraham becomes the father of nations
so I know I know there are so many examples of that we even have living prophets president
Nelson I'm sure he had great parents but he had parents who weren't active in the church
and tells a story about going in the basement breaking the whiskey bottles and yet and yet
look at what he becomes and and he would be the first to tell us that it was because of
his understanding and applying the atonement of Jesus Christ in his life so the whole key
to this process of forgiving others is the application again of the atonement of Jesus
Christ in our life so I think in the book Elder Anderson wrote Scott one of my favorite
stories in that chapter on this principle or this point this manifestation or evidence
of repentance is page 227 and maybe maybe I can just read part of it or paraphrase thank
you he you know Richard Norby who's also a friend who was involved in the Institute
of Religion program as I was was the senior missionary who was bombed in Brussels and
when the bomb went off he was in the zero zone where anybody in that zone should have
been killed and he miraculously wasn't but had he is he was forever and ever rest of
his mortal life affected by that event and anyway he was badly burned and spent months
and months and months in rehabilitation and he has he has really suffered and continues
to fill the effects of it of it daily and Elder Anderson actually gave in one of his
conference talks tells the story about brother Norby well Richard Norby and this is in on
page 227 of the book Elder Anderson says Richard Norby when he thinks about what has happened
to him and the victim that he was he does not think about the terrorists he chooses not
to focus on the terrorists or the bomb but rather he chooses to focus on Jesus Christ
and the cross that's what he chooses to think about I've heard brother Norby actually tell
other others that and that's the key to it our thoughts should immediately turn to Jesus
Christ when we either become victims or we have loved ones our loved ones become victims
from the sins of others Jesus not only suffered for the sins of all the world Scott but he
suffered for all the negative effects of all the sins of all the world and we not only
need the power of Christ through his atonement in our life to be forgiven of sins but we
need the power of Christ through his atonement to be able to forgive sin and I I just it's
just a matter of looking to Christ look unto me and every thought doubt not fear not and
see the wounds in my hands and feet I think that if that be if that could be our focus
it's so much easier to forgive the prophets are good at this Elder Anderson write some
things but I'll stop there for a minute Scott for you to to respond to anything you would
like to say about it I'm just as you're talking I'm just having a few experiences go through
my recollection mind right a few because initially I think you know have I ever really been offended
to the point where it would be difficult for me to forgive somebody and and apparently
you know as I think on that apparently the spirit does a good job in helping us to also
not just forgive but sometimes even forget at least maybe on a temporary basis but you
know as I put my mind back in process and think about some of the things I'm I recall
the inexperience that I had I was maybe four or five years sober and I'm in a meeting and
a man walks into a meeting he's brand new and I'd never hadn't hadn't seen him I'd seen
him but not in a meeting and this man and I'm not going to go into any detail because
some of our listeners you know that it will affect but but there this man walks in and
had created a ton of turmoil it not just in my life but in the life of a lot of people
that I loved and at that point in my recovery and that point in my recovery from not just
alcoholism but from the natural man at that point in my recovery you know this was something
that was still really difficult for me to deal with David and and I had my sponsor was there
not LDS but great great man and he was there and he could tell something was disturbing
me and when the meeting was over he come up to me he says what in the heck is wrong with
you and I explained to him he already knew the situation because we had talked about
it and it had been a point of of concern and a point of aggregate aggravation for me for
for a few five or six years actually up to this point now he hadn't offended me directly
but had others in my family people that I loved my my sponsor his name was John at the time
said to me he says what is wrong with you and I told him I said that's the guy and I
says and I know what you're going to tell me you're going to tell me go pray for him
he says I'm not going to tell you to pray for him until you can pray for you he said
you need to get right you need to be okay with this you know and that helped me now
that guy and I he's passed now unfortunately died from really sad tragic situations later
but he and I you know over the years this has been 16 now it's been almost 20 years
ago now but over the years he and I became not just friends not just acquaintances but
we were able to put stuff aside and become kind of close to each other because what
I was able to realize is that he had been through some really difficult things in his
life and when I learned of those things my empathy for him just compassion just swelled
within me you know and he for me and you know it's just really interesting how as we see
the Savior and come to know him like we've talked about which is so important how we
begin to see each other and others differently than that man and when we talk about forgiveness
David one of the Savior's great roles he has many but one of his great roles is not to
just provide a way for us to be forgiven but also provide that forgiveness and when we
are to forgive when we exercise that same power in our own lives we might not ever be
more Christ like than we are in those moments David so Scott we haven't discussed this but
let me just ask you a question why wouldn't someone pray to God for power to forgive others
yeah yeah why wouldn't they there's several reasons I want you to talk about this and
to talk about what is the payoff yeah that some people have yep by not forgiving what's
the payoff by being a victim or what's the payoff for being angry and bitter towards
others for the hurt they've caused you or loved ones what's the pay off I have a lot
of experience with this because of my association with these kinds of things in recovery specifically
you know I've seen it also in you know my various church responsibilities and colleagues
but I've seen it more probably more frequently in recovery there is a payoff for example
let's just all consider you know we make a mistake and it's a big mistake and it's embarrassing
and you know and it causes somebody harm and and down the road it's you know it's been
months maybe even years and it creates all kinds of hell in our own lives and because
of that hell that we're experiencing in our own lives we develop a new personality and
that personality has a lot to do with I can't be responsible and we begin to decline in
our responsibility and we begin to decline in our ability to have positive social interaction
and we begin to just kind of decline in all areas of our lives when that happens and I
know many of us as I'm even saying this are probably relating to that thinking yeah that's
me right now or yeah that's been me in the past I've definitely have felt that and and
maybe this is something I can watch out for in the future because here's what happens
at some point we find ourselves and I've seen this maybe I have even experienced it to a
degree in my own life but one day we wake up and we say who am I and how in the heck
did I get here my life is so much different than I thought it would be I'm not happy I'm
not joyous I'm not free from the bondage of the the circumstances and many many other
things and so it's created a a a person of me who has become irresponsible to all of
the things responsible in my life does that make sense so far yeah okay absolutely and
so if that's the case there is a certain you know we read in in we I think we read it just
a couple weeks ago maybe you can tell us a reference but you know Satan he'll lull us
away causing us to say yay all is well in Zion yay Zion and so when he does that he
has or when we do that he has the ability in us to create that sense of apathy that sense
of not trying that sense of giving up that sent and we're justified in our not that sense
of not being accountable yeah big one right yeah a big big big if I'm a victim then why
could I be if I then I'm not accountable if I'm bitter then why could I be accountable
right accountable to what I mean to just be in a decent person sometimes the payoff is
that it becomes an excuse that's exactly it for my unhappiness or my misery or my my sins
that I commit and we use it don't we to be we do and the fallacy there is is we think
well it would be too much work because we have two choices you know we've talked in
the past there's two wolves that live inside us you know the old Indian proverb right
at Native American proverb there's two or one you feel when you feed that's the one
anger peace joy sorrow I mean and we can contrast these two wolves in however way we want to
in this way we're categorizing them in peace sorrow forgiveness non-forgiveness they're
kind of the same right and so if if I if I hold on to that and harbor that and I don't
have to be responsible for the hard work that in my mind I see in front of me if I were
to overcome this challenge or if I were to become responsible for my own feelings emotions
and attitudes etc that's going to take a ton of work what we don't realize on me not on
them it's all if we see it that way yeah right which is erroneous right it's not on me but
the enemy wants us to see it's evil being on me because then it makes it more daunting
more impossible for me to accomplish what I want what I say I want to accomplish I say
I want joy I say I want peace well do I really because is or is the payoff to stay stuck
you know and I'll just call it that just if the payoff to stay stuck is greater than the
payoff to get well will stay stuck yeah and sometimes that payoff to stay stuck is I get
people paying attention to me I don't have to apologize when I'm wrong everybody walk
on eggshells around me I have a chip on my show I mean and it can and maybe not even
that way maybe I was drawn I've become a role exactly role they feel they have to fulfill
and it can look a lot of different ways at the heart of it it becomes an identity and
that's right and Satan has put a certain identity on them and they feel like that's who they
really truly are and and really Scott I I don't want to sensationalize it but but it's
Satan who uses these things against us right and and he'll say and he'll whisper to us
it's so that would be so hard to change that would be so hard to forgive it would be so
hard to become unstucked and it and it's really not it's just it's really just focusing on
Jesus Christ I know it takes effort I know it takes focus I know it takes work it takes
great fair prayer it takes a lot of faith you know there's work involved in it but the
the payoff of that is peace and love and joy and all the fruits of the spirit I all of
us you and me all our listeners need to ask yourself am I stuck you know what what what
am I stuck on what what have I not yeah I able to let go and move on from that's the
right way to ask that question because we're all stuck in some place in our lives and at
some level we're all stuck as part of the the effects of the fall yeah and you know
and as we see that I'm stuck as being the big payoff in our life because again if I'm
stuck for example I won't have to if I if I'm stuck in and I don't want please don't
misunderstand what I'm saying here I know there are levels of depression that are organic
that can't be controlled I get all that I really do and I realize that some so much
of that is not a choice but sometimes it can be and when it is that choice can be so comfortable
for us to just sit in our own garbage and and not have to take any action and it's the
not accountability that's it no agency we choose to be acted upon instead of choosing
to act that's right right second Nephi chapter 2 Nephi over early hi teaching us over and
over again and finally Scott on this on this principle and we can't say this strong enough
it's a commandment it is a commandment to forgive others Jesus has repeated it it's his own
words from his own mouth over and over again in the scriptures we are commanded to forgive
and if we don't forgive he won't forgive us we will not be forgiven and on that point
Nephi said that speaking to his father I know the Lord give us no commandments under the
children of men save he shall prepare away for them that they may accomplish the thing
which he commanded them well it may be no other commandment is that more obvious than
in this one where it's not us who really can do it it's a gift from him he will prepare
away for us that we will forgive if we will pray for it if we will desire it if we'll
exercise faith in our efforts to forgive he will prepare away and he will help us to keep
this commandment but we just have to really emphasize there is a commandment it is it
is an essential commandment to the promise and the blessing to be able to be forgiven
and to forgive ourselves is that we must forgive others yeah and and that is when again we
in my estimation that's when we become Christ like in a way that we will never be able to
become Christ like without having done so I mean it's just period and the conversation
right there I mean that's just really what it's all about I just don't think the words
are I mean these are really powerful strong words in doctrine comes in 64 verse 9 wherefore
I say unto you that ye ought to forgive one another for he that forgives not his brother
his trespasses standeth condemned before the Lord for their remaineth in him the greater
sin that's amazing Scott that the greater sin of us not being willing to forgive others
the greater sin is in us than those who have even heard us I the Lord will forgive whom
I will forgive but of you it is required to forgive all men all men and Scott I know you
know there's just so much unrest and confusion and people being upset contentious angry because
of what others are doing who we may not even have a personal relationship with you know
it may be political it may be others that we hear about or we watch the news or whatever
and it gets us so upset and and we have to forgive we have to forgive on a daily basis
really if we want peace and if we want the spirit of the Lord we have to forgive on a
daily basis and we should pray for ourselves right to do that and we should pray for others
there you go anyway I I just well and and you know and as we're praying for others
I and I do this one of the prayers that as I'm praying for my you know in quotation
marks here enemies which were counseled to do which I really don't have enemies but those
that may offend me or as I'm praying for those what I'm really praying for David and you
said this a few minutes ago is Satan will try to confuse us of our identities and confuse
us of other people's identities right yes and so you know what I pray for is Heavenly
Father bless me to see him the way you do that would be a good prayer bless me to understand
maybe not in detail but or maybe in detail or whatever but whatever would be your will
bless me with the ability to know you know what what challenges what what fears what
is it in this person's life would create this kind of behavior yeah that's so good Scott
and then also David be and I'm you're gonna make another point here but before you do
that you you talked about the Savior gives us a great example you know and he talks to
us throughout all of Scripture and talks to us about the importance of forgiveness and
how we can do it but he gave us the greatest example while he's hanging on the cross one
of the very few final things he said Father forgive them for they know not what they do
thank you elder Holland just a few years ago in October General Conference 2018 forgive
and ye shall be forgiven Christ taught I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive but
of you it is required commanded to forgive all men it is however important this elder
Holland it is however important for some of you living in real anguish to know what he
did not say he did not say you are not allowed to feel true pain or real sorrow from the
shattering experiences you have had at the hand of another nor did he say in order to
forgive fully you have to re-enter a toxic relationship or return to an abusive destructive
circumstance he didn't say that but not withstanding even the most terrible offenses that might
come to us we can rise above our pain but only when we put our feet onto the path of
true healing and that path is the forgiving one walked by Jesus of Nazareth I know Scott
that there is pain and there is hearts that are shattered and there there are wet pillows
at night because of all of the pain in the world and the pain that sin causes that I
just really love how elder Anderson worded this paragraph it's one of my one of my favorite
here in his book the divine gift of forgiveness elder Anderson wrote forgiveness is not excusing
accountability or failing to protect ourselves our families and other innocent victims forgiveness
is not continuing in a relationship with someone who is not trustworthy forgiveness is not
condoning or excusing injustice forgiveness is not dismissing the hurt or the disgust
we feel because of the actions of others forgiveness is not forgetting but it is remembering in
peace I that may take some time for others more time for others and maybe others and
that we that again that comes as a gift but it's it's not forgetting I don't think for
giving is forgetting I think again it's a gift from God that we don't forget actually
so that we won't be hurt over and over and over again by maybe the same individuals but
for but forgiving is remembering it or what them or whatever in peace through Jesus Christ
yes through Jesus Christ that's the key and and president oop Dorf when he was in the
first presidency he he made this statement remember heaven is filled with those who have
this one thing in common they are forgiven and they forgive I love that remember heaven
is filled with those who have this one thing in common they are forgiven and they forgive
lay your burden at the Savior's feet he says let go of judgment allow Christ's atonement
to change and heal your heart love one another forgive one another the merciful will obtain
mercy that's from the April amazing talk unforgiveness by the way by president oop Dorf in April of
2012 so I know it's a commandment and I know that it's a commandment that we can all keep
not easy no commandments are but so worth the effort because of the peace it brings and we've
been promised God one of my favorite scriptures in well I think it's my favorite section the
doctrine comes section 93 and in section 93 it's kind of john the Baptist recounting his
little experience with Jesus and and we have this really precious line you shall receive grace for
grace I know that's true for us I know that as we offer grace and mercy to others that it always
comes back to us and also one of my favorite lines from preach my gospel and I'm sure it's in
the new preach my gospel as well but this is it as our understanding of the atonement of Jesus
Christ increases our ability to forgive others and ourselves increases I know that's I know
that's true so I I hope that all of us can think about who it is that maybe we need to forgive
who it is that is maybe making it difficult for us to to move on and make the progress that we
need progression that we need to make to who are kind of because we're stuck root bound we're not
growing the way we should grow because our roots are not sunk deep deep enough into the atonement
of Jesus Christ and we are not receiving the blood and the blessings of the atonement of Jesus
Christ into our life as it should be ministered into our life through the gift of the Holy Ghost
so I I just hope and pray that all of us can ponder how this may apply to us because ultimately
it's the final manifestation of our efforts to repent and to be forgiven by God is us receiving
the gift paying the price doing the work to receive the gift of being able to forgive others
that we might be able to be forgiven and then forgive ourselves which we'll talk more about
and I I think Scott one last thing for me is a lot of people maybe ask the question or asking
them themselves right now how do I know if I have forgiven them I think it's been helpful over the
years as I've taught this and have experimented with this in my own life I have just a little
list here of how do you know you have forgiven others one you are able to pray for them
sincerely to you see them as a child of God with mercy and grace three you feel God's love for
them you get a glimpse of how he sees them and feel his love for them four you are not angry
or bitter five you have no resentment towards them six you understand and feel the Lord's love
and the power of his atonement in your own life when when you can all of those are I think
evidences of how do we know if we have forgiven others even though again there may be still some
pain there may be still some sorrow there may be still be some hurt but you know you forgiven
and you know that it's only a matter of time before even our tears he will wipe away our tears
from our eyes and that it will all be behind us there's a there's a deep freedom that comes when
we find the ability to forgive others there's a there's a just an absolute sense of release
from that bondage when that happens I've seen it I felt it in my own life I've seen it in
the lives of others and and I invite us all as we conclude here today that let's as we go through
this week and especially as we sit at the sacrament table this Sunday and we renew covenants and
commitments and our love and devotion to to him to Jesus and to our heavenly Father but as we're
sitting there I hope it's I hope it's in our hearts and I hope that it's on our thoughts and on our
minds to be praying for ourselves and those for whom we should be providing and extending at some
point forgiveness as we've been commanded to do it's it's our prayer it's our hope that all of us
will fill not just our own redemption but the redemption of others and that we will have the
ability to see others in our lives and in their lives the way our heavenly Father sees them
I'm grateful to know that through his atonement all things all these things are possible thanks
for being with us we look forward to being with you again next week until then have a great week
everybody