1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:20,200 Hey there everybody and welcome out to another episode of Redeemed Through His Blood. 2 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:23,360 Scott Durfee here, joined as always by Dave Durfee. 3 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:24,360 What's up Dave? 4 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,840 Good to be with you Scott. 5 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:37,680 Sweet to be here, sweet to be alive, life is hard, seems like so many struggles and difficulties 6 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:44,240 and challenges and problems and it's interesting that we got a I think it's a really significant 7 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:47,080 communication email from someone. 8 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:54,240 Scott, maybe you can set that up just maybe give generally some background to the email 9 00:00:54,240 --> 00:01:01,720 just kind of generally without names and titles or offices or anything that's mentioned 10 00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:02,720 in there. 11 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:04,400 Let's just kind of generally talk about it for a minute. 12 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:10,160 Well, so we got an email this week, in fact I just got it today this morning at 10.52 13 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,200 a.m. to be exact. 14 00:01:12,200 --> 00:01:16,160 But and it was good to get this you know and again gang we... 15 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:17,600 That's not the first one we've got. 16 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:20,080 No, no, no, yeah and I was just going to say them. 17 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:23,600 But this one seems kind of urgent. 18 00:01:23,600 --> 00:01:27,920 Can we invite you as things come up if you have questions or things like that please 19 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,160 send them to us and we'll do what we can to either respond to them via email or talk about 20 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:33,840 them here on the podcast. 21 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:38,160 If we do that we'll protect identity and anonymity for sure. 22 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:45,720 This is a loving father and this loving father has a wonderful young man in his life, his 23 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:53,120 son and his son has struggled and his son has struggled with some morality kind of issues 24 00:01:53,120 --> 00:02:01,320 and this the other person, a young lady happens to be somebody that they know and kind of 25 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:05,200 in the same area, community if you will. 26 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:10,840 And anyway, the frustration or this and I don't really I got to be careful about that 27 00:02:10,840 --> 00:02:15,880 because I don't know that frustration was really what was being trying to be communicated 28 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:19,440 here although there was some frustration in the tone of it for sure. 29 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:21,720 Well, it is frustrating. 30 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:25,280 Yeah, it definitely whatever you have a wayward child. 31 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:27,720 We know that there's frustration there. 32 00:02:27,720 --> 00:02:37,640 You have emotions and feelings of failure and anxiety and some fear, fear, failure, 33 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:44,680 frustration, the three F's and it's it's yeah, I know what that feels like. 34 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,000 Yeah, I guess I do too, honestly. 35 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:52,680 I'm just going to read one, maybe edit it as I read it, but one paragraph, maybe two, 36 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,720 and I think that'll kind of give us a synopsis of what we need to talk about. 37 00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:01,960 But this brother says the impression I've had throughout all of this ordeal is to help 38 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:03,040 him. 39 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,960 That's the son better understand the Savior and his atoning sacrifice. 40 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:12,480 I don't know what in particular to share with him, but we read from the Book of Mormon 41 00:03:12,480 --> 00:03:15,120 and from the New Testament often. 42 00:03:15,120 --> 00:03:20,920 Our state president, so this son is going through kind of the repentance process, I 43 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:27,400 guess, you know, and that could be argued, I guess, because I, you know, repentant is 44 00:03:27,400 --> 00:03:28,920 a way of being in. 45 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:33,880 It seems like based on what this father's telling us in this email that he may not have 46 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,880 that repentant of a heart, but he goes on. 47 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:42,040 Our state president has also given him many assignments, but every and everyone just says 48 00:03:42,040 --> 00:03:44,760 he's a good kid and he'll figure things out. 49 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:46,920 But he's really not figuring it out. 50 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:52,200 And before he can move forward, he needs to awake to the reality of his awful situation. 51 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:57,320 Then he asks a question, do you have any counsel as to how to help wake him up? 52 00:03:57,320 --> 00:04:01,560 I sit here like the father of the prodigal son waiting and watching. 53 00:04:01,560 --> 00:04:06,920 And sometimes I lose my patience and sometimes I get upset and it's easy to love other children. 54 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:11,680 But when it's my own child, I have totally hit rock bottom myself. 55 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:16,080 I've had a couple of priesthood blessings and received good counsel there, but I wondered 56 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,800 if you had any advice. 57 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:25,000 Well it's, I mean, you know, my heart goes out to that father and that no doubt behind 58 00:04:25,000 --> 00:04:30,280 that good father, there is a weeping wife and mother. 59 00:04:30,280 --> 00:04:31,680 No doubt. 60 00:04:31,680 --> 00:04:35,160 And my heart really goes out to them. 61 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:41,560 And I'm telling you, Scott, from personal experience, it is so interesting to me. 62 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:54,200 How, when you have a wayward child, how Satan will use the waywardness of that child to 63 00:04:54,200 --> 00:05:00,080 put parents in kind of a spiral downward, which I don't think is pleasing to the Lord. 64 00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:01,280 I understand it. 65 00:05:01,280 --> 00:05:03,320 I've experienced it. 66 00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:14,240 But there is no reason why any parent cannot feel, continue to feel, always feel joy and 67 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,240 peace. 68 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,160 I've learned, Scott, that you can have joy and sorrow. 69 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:19,160 Yeah. 70 00:05:19,160 --> 00:05:20,160 Yeah. 71 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,600 It's okay to be sad. 72 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,040 That's okay. 73 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:25,840 But you better not lose your joy. 74 00:05:25,840 --> 00:05:29,600 And it's okay to be frustrated. 75 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:30,840 That's okay. 76 00:05:30,840 --> 00:05:36,080 But you better not lose your peace because what you're saying, if you, if you lose your 77 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:44,320 peace and spirit and those are fruits of the spirit, which when I don't have joy and peace, 78 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:51,760 I know I've lost the spirit either temporarily or because of thoughts or negativity or sometimes 79 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:56,640 even because of sin in my life or because of the sins of my children or whatever. 80 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:01,640 And you don't have joy and peace, what does that say about my ability to respond to the 81 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:03,480 spirit? 82 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:07,880 We know the president Nelson has told us we should have joy in every circumstance. 83 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,760 I've been thinking a lot about Adam and Eve. 84 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:12,560 Adam and Eve, leave the Garden of Eden. 85 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:13,560 Think about that. 86 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:15,200 They've communed with God. 87 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,040 I know that they remembered that, those experiences. 88 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,680 Their mind was not veiled by that. 89 00:06:21,680 --> 00:06:26,240 They couldn't remember the pre-moral existence, but they remembered the garden and they remembered 90 00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:34,000 walking and talking with God and they, they go into this dreary world, right? 91 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,960 Celestial world, fallen world. 92 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:43,040 And not long after they have children and their children are old enough, their children 93 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,160 are killing one another. 94 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,000 Think about that as a parent. 95 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:49,920 You know, who's gone, had to go through that. 96 00:06:49,920 --> 00:06:55,040 And well, there have been some and Adam and Eve, right? 97 00:06:55,040 --> 00:07:01,120 I mean, the quality of their parenthood probably surpassed by none. 98 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:06,160 And they have a cane who kills their able, right? 99 00:07:06,160 --> 00:07:09,200 Two brothers who hate each other so much. 100 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,640 Satan has had so much influence in that. 101 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,160 Anyway, I've been thinking a lot about Adam and Eve lately. 102 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,320 I have problems in my own family. 103 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,160 I have a son who's been in prison. 104 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:25,200 You know, our family's certainly not, not perfect without our problems and no family 105 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:34,840 is, but you can still have and must continue to seek joy and peace. 106 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:41,200 And what blocks us from having that Scott is fear and pride. 107 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,200 And pride. 108 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:43,200 Yeah. 109 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,760 I'm telling you, there's a whole chapter in Elder Anderson's book on fear and pride 110 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:55,840 and every parent ought to read it and read it well because I think it, we as a, as a father, 111 00:07:55,840 --> 00:08:00,320 when I have a wayward son, then I'm praying, Oh God, please change my son. 112 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:01,320 Please change my son. 113 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:03,200 Please change my son. 114 00:08:03,200 --> 00:08:05,080 There's no bad prayers. 115 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:10,000 And that's certainly a sincere, worthy prayer. 116 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:16,880 But once I was praying that and the spirit chastised me. 117 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:22,200 Get praying for your wayward son and start praying for you. 118 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:31,080 And I knew what that meant that the waywardness of my son was causing me to lose the spirit 119 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:39,840 of the Lord because I had lost joy and peace in my life and maybe even some of the pure 120 00:08:39,840 --> 00:08:46,240 love of Christ in my life charity and maybe, maybe even a little hope and maybe even a 121 00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:48,760 little, I mean, it really affects you spiritually. 122 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:50,880 I understand that. 123 00:08:50,880 --> 00:09:00,280 But a father at some point and a mother should pray for them that they can be able to through 124 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:04,880 the atonement of Jesus Christ continue to have joy. 125 00:09:04,880 --> 00:09:13,400 I mean, all of the prophets, all parents who've had wayward children have no doubt wept because 126 00:09:13,400 --> 00:09:21,440 God himself wept because he said they are my creation. 127 00:09:21,440 --> 00:09:28,400 They are, they are, and they don't, they hate each other, right? 128 00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:30,200 Even God weeps. 129 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:35,720 But God hasn't lost joy, hasn't lost peace, hasn't lost purpose. 130 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:42,240 And we should, we should, when we get in those states, emotional states in our life, I think 131 00:09:42,240 --> 00:09:49,360 largely because of fear and pride and how easily Satan can use those two emotions against 132 00:09:49,360 --> 00:09:56,960 us, fear, insecurity, pride, he can rob us of that peace and that joy. 133 00:09:56,960 --> 00:10:06,000 And when he does and we become agitated and we become insecure and we become over reactive 134 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:15,400 and we become angry and we become, then we lose power and we lose, we're not in the best 135 00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:21,800 position to really help that child when we're in that state. 136 00:10:21,800 --> 00:10:25,600 So I think that's, that's the first thing I would say. 137 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:30,600 And the second thing I would say is I have always loved the example we have in the Book 138 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:43,280 of Mormon of how Alma uses doctrine to teach us, here was wayward son fornicating on his 139 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:45,560 mission, sent home. 140 00:10:45,560 --> 00:10:52,560 Can you imagine, can you imagine the sense of maybe fear or pride that Alma may have 141 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:58,560 felt as being the high priest of the church, the prophet and his son sent home and he's 142 00:10:58,560 --> 00:11:01,920 thinking, wow, I wonder what people are thinking about that. 143 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:06,080 That doesn't, you know, I mean, think of the fears and pride that no doubt he would have 144 00:11:06,080 --> 00:11:08,080 felt because we're all fallen. 145 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:14,920 But he didn't allow that to settle in on his heart and take control of his behaviors or 146 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:17,800 his response to his son. 147 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:19,320 And so what does he do? 148 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:22,920 Well he just teaches his son doctrine. 149 00:11:22,920 --> 00:11:27,600 And this is one of the greatest examples of all the scriptures, which is evidence of 150 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:31,040 President Packer's statement. 151 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:38,920 True doctrine, understood, changes behavior, better than a discussion of behavior changes 152 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,280 behavior. 153 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:47,040 So then my counsel would be to any parent who's going through this, what is your focus? 154 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:51,400 Is your focus the son's behavior? 155 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:52,400 What's your focus? 156 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,440 You know, just for a minute. 157 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:57,000 I'm not talking about the son. 158 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,120 What is your focus? 159 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:05,280 And if your focus is the behavior, that's not going to be helpful. 160 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:09,680 I mean, you can't ignore the behavior, need to be aware of the behavior, need to do everything 161 00:12:09,680 --> 00:12:14,840 you can to stop the behavior, especially when it's damaging himself or others. 162 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:21,360 However, if you want to really change someone, it's not going to be a discussion of behavior. 163 00:12:21,360 --> 00:12:23,800 It's going to be a discussion of doctrine. 164 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,360 And it sounds like this dad's trying to do that, and it sounds like this son's willing 165 00:12:27,360 --> 00:12:30,960 to read scriptures with him, which I, that's amazing. 166 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:32,280 That's optimistic. 167 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:34,960 And so that's another point. 168 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,480 Focus on doctrine, not on the behavior. 169 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,480 Third thing, how do you really see your son? 170 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:47,040 You know, this, this email says, everybody says he's a good kid. 171 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:50,680 Well, what do you think about your kid? 172 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:52,680 What do you think about your son? 173 00:12:52,680 --> 00:13:01,000 The real, the real point here, Scott, is to pray for the gift, to see your son, the way 174 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,840 God sees your son. 175 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:04,840 Right. 176 00:13:04,840 --> 00:13:07,600 Can I, can I add a few things to that? 177 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:10,040 So, and I agree with all of that. 178 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,200 That's all true doctrine, true or words have never been spoken, then everything that you 179 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:18,480 just spoke, Dave, Dave, there's, there's another component to it, you know, and as fathers, 180 00:13:18,480 --> 00:13:20,200 you and I have been here too. 181 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,000 We're always looking for an action item. 182 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:26,920 Give me the button to push, give me the thing to do, give me the, give me the, step by step. 183 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:27,920 Yeah. 184 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:29,520 Give me the assignment, you know, whatever. 185 00:13:29,520 --> 00:13:30,520 Yeah. 186 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:36,680 You know, and you talk about how are we, what are we putting our focus on? 187 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:38,000 Are we focusing on ourselves? 188 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:41,640 Are we focusing on changing his behavior, our behavior, whatever? 189 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:44,000 And it goes deeper than behavior. 190 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,240 You know, this is really about not what we're doing. 191 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:49,400 It's about who we're being. 192 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:56,120 You know, and in the very beginning stages of this podcast, you and I discuss the importance 193 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:00,440 of understanding who we are and whose we are. 194 00:14:00,440 --> 00:14:06,120 And there's a lot of presupposition here that, you know, this young man has that testimony 195 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:08,640 that this young, you know, he's a good kid. 196 00:14:08,640 --> 00:14:11,320 He, you know, that was said about me. 197 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:16,240 I'm a little sensitive to this kind of stuff, you know, I'm 59 years old and I go back to 198 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:17,240 when I was a teenager. 199 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:18,920 And you were living a lie. 200 00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:19,920 Exactly. 201 00:14:19,920 --> 00:14:22,280 And that's where I'm coming from. 202 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:26,800 Because because, you know, for example, there was a time I was sitting in a, I was told, 203 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:30,320 I told you about this the other day, but I was sitting in a conference. 204 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:32,640 It was, I was 16 or 17 years old. 205 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:38,520 I was living a life that included things that we're talking about here. 206 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,040 I wasn't living a virtuous life. 207 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,200 I was living a lie. 208 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,880 I was on the stake High Council Youth Advisory Committee or whatever, you know, and all of 209 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:48,880 those other things. 210 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:50,240 Well, we had a general authority. 211 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:51,240 Don't remember who it was. 212 00:14:51,240 --> 00:14:53,080 Came and he spoke to us. 213 00:14:53,080 --> 00:14:57,560 I was the one that was being asked to speak in conferences, you know, say prayers, everything. 214 00:14:57,560 --> 00:14:58,760 You know, I was that good kid. 215 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:02,000 Well, we had this general authority come speak to us and he was talking about the law of 216 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:03,000 chastity. 217 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:08,520 I was sitting halfway back in the American Fork Steak Center, American Fork, Utah. 218 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:15,240 I was sitting halfway back in the congregation early morning, fireside, and I just started 219 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:20,480 feeling so guilty and so crappy about myself that I got him walked out. 220 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,560 And as I did that, you know, he embarrassed me in front of everybody. 221 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,320 He says, Hey, where are you going? 222 00:15:26,320 --> 00:15:28,600 This stuff about kind of pricking at you or whatever. 223 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:31,720 And I must have turned a million shades of red and all of that. 224 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,320 I felt like I was on fire. 225 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:34,880 I'm filling it again now. 226 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,040 I'm starting to get anxious as I felt filled now. 227 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:39,800 But anyway, do you remember that general authority? 228 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:40,800 I wish I did. 229 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:42,160 No, I wish you didn't. 230 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:43,160 I'm glad you don't. 231 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:46,440 Because of him, buddy, you shouldn't have done that. 232 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:47,440 Right? 233 00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:48,440 Yeah, exactly. 234 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,480 So, so anyway, I leave and I just said, No, I got a sick stomach. 235 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:53,480 I left. 236 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:57,680 Well, you know, subsequent to that, all the stake leaders and everybody, they were so 237 00:15:57,680 --> 00:15:58,680 concerned. 238 00:15:58,680 --> 00:16:00,200 Oh, Scott, we don't want him worried. 239 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:01,480 We don't want him offended. 240 00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:05,360 We, you know, in fact, I had more than one tell me, don't worry. 241 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,680 We told him that you're one of the good ones. 242 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:11,680 And all this time I'm thinking, Yeah, no, I'm not. 243 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,560 You know, you knew something. 244 00:16:13,560 --> 00:16:14,560 Yeah. 245 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:15,560 No one else knew about you. 246 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:17,360 Well, the spirit did. 247 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:18,360 That's for sure. 248 00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:19,360 Right. 249 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:25,440 But the point is, is, you know, for me, in those days, it was so important for me, you 250 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:29,160 know, it sounds like I was kind of brought up the same way this young man was. 251 00:16:29,160 --> 00:16:33,840 And there's no criticism on anybody, not my parents, not his parents or Adam or Eve or 252 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:40,320 anybody or Lehigh or anybody or God who or God who lost the third of his, right. 253 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:44,360 But my testimony was based on what everybody else was thinking. 254 00:16:44,360 --> 00:16:46,200 You know, I mean, I had a testimony. 255 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,200 Don't get me wrong. 256 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,760 I don't ever remember a time when I doubted the validity of the truthfulness of the gospel, 257 00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:51,960 the restoration, all of it. 258 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:56,160 I don't ever remember a time and I've never denied it. 259 00:16:56,160 --> 00:17:02,200 But it wasn't who I was being who it's the things that I was doing, right. 260 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,640 And so those those doings were so important that I checked the box that I looked like this, 261 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,600 that I was that good kid that I. 262 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:11,920 And you know, and I was having those priesthood interviews with my dad and I was having those 263 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:15,160 priesthood interviews with the bishop and and everybody else. 264 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:18,840 And I knew exactly what to say, you know, and I especially knew what to say to make them 265 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:20,640 go quicker. 266 00:17:20,640 --> 00:17:24,440 You know, if you answer the questions quickly and the right way, then you can be done with 267 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,080 it, you know, bow your head and say yes. 268 00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:28,160 Exactly. 269 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,840 This young man. 270 00:17:30,840 --> 00:17:35,880 What we're what we may be seeing here is just an outward expression of a lack that's much 271 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,920 deeper than, hey, you're you're making some mistakes. 272 00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:45,640 And that lack is a connection to deity, a connection to his Heavenly Father, a realization 273 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:51,760 not just on pages on a book and not just saying what somebody wants him to hear, but a situation 274 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:55,200 where, yeah, I know that I'm supposed to say, yeah, I'm nothing blah, blah, blah, but a 275 00:17:55,200 --> 00:18:00,160 real feeling of that and real, real word pictures to go with the kind of words kind of book 276 00:18:00,160 --> 00:18:02,200 of what's going on. 277 00:18:02,200 --> 00:18:09,240 And and if that's the case, then helping that young man fill the Savior's love first, helping 278 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:14,240 him know who he is first, all that other stuff's important, sure. 279 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:20,240 But we've got a triage and the triage we got to get to the to the base of the problem. 280 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:23,760 And does he really see himself as who he is who he really is. 281 00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,400 Yeah, not just who he is. 282 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:28,440 Who's who's that's right. 283 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:29,440 He is. 284 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,360 And why it's important that he's been purchased in why it's important that he has been purchased. 285 00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:34,440 You're right. 286 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,800 Not just that he's been purchased, but why do I need that? 287 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:43,240 What necessitates me being purchased and understand that his parents have been purchased 288 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:45,560 right and that we've all been purchased, right? 289 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:50,120 You know, it just it really depends, Scott, on on, you know, what is a parent's focus 290 00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:52,280 when they have a wayward child. 291 00:18:52,280 --> 00:19:00,800 And honestly, if you're if you're focused more on the badness of the child more than 292 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:06,120 you are focused on the goodness of Jesus Christ, you're going to have anger. 293 00:19:06,120 --> 00:19:08,840 You're going to have you're not going to have peace. 294 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:10,840 You're not going to have joy. 295 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:14,040 You're going to lose spiritual gifts. 296 00:19:14,040 --> 00:19:22,080 You have to focus always more on the goodness of Christ than the badness of the child. 297 00:19:22,080 --> 00:19:24,080 Right. 298 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:32,240 It's just really critical for a parent or or anyone who has a loved one spouse or other. 299 00:19:32,240 --> 00:19:36,200 You have to focus more on the goodness of Christ. 300 00:19:36,200 --> 00:19:39,800 And I'm not talking about leniency or allowing indulgence. 301 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:49,840 I'm not talking about ignoring behaviors and sins that are damaging to your home to others 302 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,040 or to the child. 303 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,200 I'm not talking about that. 304 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,960 No, you shouldn't be lenient or you shouldn't be in doubt and indulging because that's not 305 00:19:57,960 --> 00:19:58,960 charity. 306 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:02,480 We'll talk about that when we talk about forgiving others. 307 00:20:02,480 --> 00:20:04,080 Indulgence is not charity. 308 00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,400 It's not excusing their behaviors. 309 00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:14,360 But if you focus more on their badness than you do on the goodness of Jesus Christ, you're 310 00:20:14,360 --> 00:20:19,440 not going to be in a position of strength to really help that individual. 311 00:20:19,440 --> 00:20:25,960 Yeah, you know, and the best way that we can help our kids get to know themselves is to 312 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,360 get to know him. 313 00:20:28,360 --> 00:20:30,280 Help them get to know him. 314 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:32,000 Help them understand him. 315 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,960 You know, and we think, well, gosh, I've been doing that since this kid was a little boy 316 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,080 in family home evening and all these other things. 317 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,840 We don't know that, you know, we think we know our kids, we think we know everything 318 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:48,840 about them, but we don't know what's happening in a kid's life that, you know, may make that 319 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:54,120 distance feel huge when there really is no distance between ourselves and the Spirit 320 00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:55,120 of our Heavenly Father. 321 00:20:55,120 --> 00:21:00,080 Well, and I think really the key to help somebody know who they are, Scott, is again 322 00:21:00,080 --> 00:21:08,200 for a parent or loved one to have a vision of who they are and who their child or their 323 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:10,440 loved one is. 324 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:16,400 And I think you can only get that through prayer and revelation. 325 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:23,560 And when I talk about about seeing them as they are, as God sees them, I'm not talking 326 00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:27,320 about in the present, I'm not talking about as a as a prodigal. 327 00:21:27,320 --> 00:21:30,240 I'm talking about their premortal existence. 328 00:21:30,240 --> 00:21:32,200 How does God see a child? 329 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,400 How does he see a prodigal? 330 00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:36,200 Does he see them as a prodigal? 331 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,760 Or has he completely forgotten what they were like in the premoral existence and how 332 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:41,480 valuable they were? 333 00:21:41,480 --> 00:21:47,440 What about, does he see them as being celestial beings, glorified, becoming like him? 334 00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:55,080 How does God see that child when a parent can get a glimpse, Scott? 335 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:56,080 Somewhat. 336 00:21:56,080 --> 00:22:03,720 I know, I know that this, I'm not talking about manipulating a vision or spirit or anything 337 00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:06,280 else here or trying to force it. 338 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:13,480 But when you just get a glimpse to see them the way God sees them from beginning to end, 339 00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,400 oh man, that can take so much pressure off a relationship. 340 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:21,240 Specifically, that can take pressure off a parent-child relationship. 341 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:22,880 That's what I'm talking about. 342 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:24,920 I know it is. 343 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:25,920 Or spouse. 344 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:27,040 Yeah, true. 345 00:22:27,040 --> 00:22:29,360 Or child worried about their parents. 346 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:34,040 I've had, I've had a lot of adult children come to me telling me about their, about their 347 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,040 parents. 348 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,040 Yeah. 349 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:47,680 But in all those relationships, it is totally changing and softening and redemptive, really, 350 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:57,000 to be able to see a loved one who is in trouble or troubled, to be able to try to get a glimpse 351 00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,360 of how God sees them. 352 00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:02,440 And if I were a parent, that's what I would, that's what I would seek. 353 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,080 I know this, Scott. 354 00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:05,760 God is not wringing his hands. 355 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:06,760 Not at all. 356 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:08,680 He's not sweating bullets. 357 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,920 He's not, he's not losing any sleep. 358 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,400 He's not mad at the kid. 359 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:15,880 He's not mad at them. 360 00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:20,200 He sees them with total mercy, with total grace. 361 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:25,400 He sees them as coming out on top. 362 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,000 It's just a matter of time. 363 00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:28,000 Yeah. 364 00:23:28,000 --> 00:23:30,520 Honestly, it's just a matter of time. 365 00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:34,800 And I think this good father in the said that he's trying to get more patience. 366 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:39,600 Well, he needs to continue to try to receive that gift, which is another gift of the Spirit. 367 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:40,600 Yeah. 368 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,520 If you lose patience, then you're probably losing the Spirit because I think patience 369 00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:47,000 is a gift of the Spirit. 370 00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:49,640 So you have to focus on the Savior. 371 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:55,480 You have to live under the influence and constant companionship of the Holy Ghost and offer 372 00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:01,520 love and mercy and grace to that individual without being, without ignoring the behavior, 373 00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:08,280 without being indulgent, without being lenient, without excusing, without any of that. 374 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:15,160 If you don't, Satan can turn you into a victim and cause you to lose the Spirit. 375 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:16,800 I know it's hard. 376 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:17,800 I know it's hard. 377 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:19,960 You know, any family's got their challenges. 378 00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:21,120 Yes, we do. 379 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:26,000 And Satan can just take, find any chink like that one. 380 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:31,920 I think it's hard for us as Latter-day Saint parents and families because we judge so much 381 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,000 of our success, Scott, in life based on how our children turned out. 382 00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:42,040 Well, if God did that, I wonder how he'd really feel about it. 383 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,280 I wonder how he feels about us doing it. 384 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:46,120 I mean, we've all, you know, we all know. 385 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:53,640 As he failed because one third rejected his plan and became sons of... did he fail? 386 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,200 It sure did not. 387 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,440 You know, did Adam and Eve fail? 388 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,680 Did Lehi fail because one third of his children? 389 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:01,680 No. 390 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:10,360 You know, I mean, it's just, it's wrong for us to think that we have failed. 391 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:11,680 There's no such thing as a perfect parent. 392 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:12,680 I know that. 393 00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:18,480 I mean, none of us are perfect and we've all sinned and we've all made mistakes and we 394 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,840 all have our own failures, no doubt as parents. 395 00:25:21,840 --> 00:25:26,640 But to believe that overall you're a failure because you have a wayward children or two 396 00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:34,000 or three or four or five, you know, I have a friend who was in a state presidency and 397 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:39,000 he and his sweet wife, they're amazing people, amazing people. 398 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:45,440 And they had adopted nine children and all nine children were wayward. 399 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:46,440 They all turned out wayward. 400 00:25:46,440 --> 00:25:51,360 I know there are special challenges with adoptions and anyway. 401 00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:52,960 And it is what it is. 402 00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,480 I'm just, that's the way it was. 403 00:25:56,480 --> 00:26:03,120 And I remember him telling to me once, you know, we've told the Lord that we have done 404 00:26:03,120 --> 00:26:06,800 the best we could with what he sent us. 405 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,680 I love that actually. 406 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:14,280 You know, sometimes that's how you see it. 407 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:18,960 And there's no doubt the Lord knew that this boy that we're talking about or any other 408 00:26:18,960 --> 00:26:23,800 boy or girl who has troubles, there's none of that surprises God. 409 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,960 But it's not just how he sees them in the present, not just how he sees them in the 410 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:33,240 past and the present, but how he sees them in the past, present and future. 411 00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:39,240 And when you can get a glimpse of that knowing the power of Jesus Christ that out of beauty 412 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:46,080 or out of ashes can become something beautiful, you know, beauty for ashes, garment of praise 413 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,160 for a spirit of heaviness and oil of joy for mourning. 414 00:26:50,160 --> 00:26:55,240 When you understand that the Atom of Jesus Christ has that power, then nobody ever feels 415 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:59,440 like throwing it in a towel on any wayward child. 416 00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:00,440 There's always hope. 417 00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,720 Well, you gave some, you gave some pretty prolific examples, you know, you said heavenly 418 00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:10,720 father lost a third of his children, Nephi had some wayward kids, Adam and Eve, all of 419 00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:14,040 us, you know, and there's many, many more examples. 420 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:18,600 There's one big difference, you know, with heavenly fathers, the third that he lost, 421 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,800 there's no redemption. 422 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:27,120 With all of the rest of ours, there's redemption and they have already been redeemed. 423 00:27:27,120 --> 00:27:28,960 They've already been purchased, Dave. 424 00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:30,560 Well, and they were all valued. 425 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:31,560 Exactly. 426 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:32,560 None of them were fanceters. 427 00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:33,560 No. 428 00:27:33,560 --> 00:27:36,000 None of them were fanceters in the pre-born existence. 429 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:40,720 And even though we think, you know, we raise our kids in the church and all these other 430 00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:43,920 things, we just don't know the conditions that our kids are in. 431 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,280 100% of the time. 432 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:46,280 We don't. 433 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:52,160 And so we really do need to withhold any kind of judgment towards them or ourselves about 434 00:27:52,160 --> 00:27:54,680 what that even means. 435 00:27:54,680 --> 00:27:59,320 We've talked about this so many times offline, Scott, about some of our challenges with our 436 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:03,320 own family and with our own challenges that we had growing up. 437 00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:10,760 And the fact is, Scott, you never, even a parent does not know what a child has really 438 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,120 been through. 439 00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:14,840 I went, I was golfing. 440 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:15,840 Oh man. 441 00:28:15,840 --> 00:28:23,720 Well, I won't say when or who, but I was golfing recently with someone who was telling me that 442 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:29,960 over and over and over again, this, this dear father, sweet father, interviewing his children, 443 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:32,920 asking them about, you know, is there anything you need to tell me? 444 00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:34,440 Is there anything wrong? 445 00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:38,440 Is there any, even felt impressed that there was something wrong with one of his children? 446 00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:44,520 And I, I, I want you to tell me anything and, and the child never did. 447 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:46,440 Well, I'll come to find out. 448 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:54,800 They were being sexually abused for a long time and ended up acting it out and all kinds 449 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,800 of problems. 450 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,960 And now, you know, not, not in the church. 451 00:28:59,960 --> 00:29:06,400 And Scott, even parents, even as parents, you think you know everything about your children, 452 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,960 that you really don't. 453 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:15,560 And you, it would be awesome if as a parent, children would come clean and tell you about 454 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:22,200 all of their challenges and problems and maybe bullying in their life and, and abuse in their 455 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:27,560 life and, and why they see themselves the way they see themselves. 456 00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:33,760 And if a parent could see all the negativity in certain individuals life, I mean, even, 457 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:39,200 if like you, you were a student by president, you were a student by president, all the things 458 00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:43,680 that you were able to accomplish in all the council, church council and everything you, 459 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,000 you were on as a youth. 460 00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:52,120 And yeah, you, you know, you had your challenges and, and nobody really knows why except you. 461 00:29:52,120 --> 00:30:01,240 And it's, it's so sad to find out as I did as a, as a dad about, you know, certain individuals 462 00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:04,360 in my own family, things were happening to them. 463 00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:06,400 I had no idea. 464 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,160 And as a result, it, it caused some real problems for them. 465 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:17,840 Again, if we could just give empathy, by the way, no sympathy, I think sympathy is always 466 00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:18,840 negative. 467 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:23,920 But if we could just give empathy, if we could just come to an understanding of what our 468 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:29,320 children are going through, maybe just again, get a glimpse. 469 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:39,320 Wow, we would be so much more kind, patient, merciful, less judgmental. 470 00:30:39,320 --> 00:30:43,720 I, you have to call sin what it is. 471 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:47,760 But oftentimes there are reasons behind it. 472 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:51,680 And it's important for us to try to seek to understand that. 473 00:30:51,680 --> 00:30:58,840 And especially, and by far the most important is to know that the power of Jesus Christ 474 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:03,440 and through his Atonement that there is no depth. 475 00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,840 Any child or individual may go. 476 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:13,240 No amount of darkness that they may be immersed in where the Atonement of Jesus Christ won't 477 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:18,480 lift them, cover them and fill them with light. 478 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:28,800 So you hope on, you pray on, you fast and faith on and you do, you all do all of that. 479 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:36,520 And in the timing of the Lord, Scott, in the timing of the Lord, those children are sealed. 480 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:41,200 If people have been sealed in the temple and parents are keeping their covenants, we have 481 00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:48,520 been promised that this Lorenzo Snow, my favorite, when he said, as yonder as the sun comes over 482 00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:54,720 those mountains, your children are yours for eternity. 483 00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:59,640 This power of godliness manifests in the ordinances of the Gospel. 484 00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:04,680 You're not going to lose any children, even if they're making terrible decisions and choices 485 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:05,680 right now. 486 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:07,760 I believe it's only a matter of time. 487 00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,360 Doesn't mean they're going to go to the highest degree, the celestial kingdom be exalted. 488 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:15,960 Well, not until they repent for sure. 489 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,600 But I don't believe I have a child that's not going to be willing to repent. 490 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:25,200 I don't believe I have a child who doesn't understand that I love the Lord Jesus Christ 491 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:28,200 and they felt the spirit of Christ in our home. 492 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:32,680 And I don't think that they're just going to forget that or disrespect that. 493 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:39,960 As long as they have some degree of desire, I don't, I don't worry about my children. 494 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:46,360 And even if they maybe lost that, any desire, maybe they lost all desire, I would never 495 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:52,360 give up hope on them because of what I believe about the power of Christ manifest through 496 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,360 his atoning sacrifice. 497 00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:56,640 I agree. 498 00:32:56,640 --> 00:33:03,040 And you know, to this father, you know, our prayers are with you, but also see the redemption 499 00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:11,480 alive in your own life and look for the blessings and the absolute miracle of your own redemption. 500 00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:15,440 And all of the other redemptions that are important to us will follow as we keep our 501 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,040 covenants as David just mentioned. 502 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:27,040 Maybe Scott, instead of, I've said this prayer, I prayed soften his heart. 503 00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:30,320 Please God soften his heart. 504 00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:32,000 I prayed in faith. 505 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:39,320 I prayed with real intent that prayer, Scott, a more effective prayer would be soften my 506 00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,240 heart. 507 00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,760 Soften my heart that I may see him the way thou sees him. 508 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:53,000 Soften my heart that I can be in a better position to help him. 509 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:58,680 And maybe help me to know how to help him to see himself that way. 510 00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:04,360 But through your help, not my own ideas, not my own impressions, you know, right, help 511 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:07,640 you please, Father, help me to know how. 512 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:11,440 And one just one more time, when you take fear and pride out of it, I had some parents 513 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,600 the other day asked me about what I would do in a certain circumstance, you know, with 514 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:21,840 a child who didn't want to do something that they wanted to force him to do. 515 00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:23,440 Right. 516 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,400 And I said, well, let's let's just start with this. 517 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:32,960 If you take your fears out of it and you take your pride out of it. 518 00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:35,400 Now what does it look like? 519 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,360 You still want to force him? 520 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,400 If you take away your fears and your pride, you still want to force him? 521 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:44,560 I don't think so. 522 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:53,600 You'll see you'll end up weeping for the child, not because of the child. 523 00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:58,160 You know, if you really take out your fears and pride and all of that, Scott, there's 524 00:34:58,160 --> 00:35:06,960 so many parents weeping because of their children, when in fact they should be weeping for their 525 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:07,960 children. 526 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:08,960 Right. 527 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:11,520 And that's what they're really with because that's what happens. 528 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:13,400 Eventually with I love that. 529 00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:14,400 Yeah. 530 00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,400 The empathy. 531 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:22,960 We see, you know, as my role, I guess you'd call it in recovery circles, you know, and 532 00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:25,840 things like that, you know, we see this a lot. 533 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:31,160 You know, we see it from a parent, we see it from a spouse, we see it from a child, you 534 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,920 know, just relationships are tricky. 535 00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:37,040 They just are, you know, a relationship in this world. 536 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,040 They can be complex. 537 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:46,760 They can be, you know, and as we see that, though, as we see that focus on the solution, 538 00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:53,040 on the spirit, on the Atonement of Jesus Christ, which is simple, his power through that, it 539 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,800 takes the complexity away. 540 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,840 Yeah, exactly. 541 00:35:56,840 --> 00:36:03,320 And then with that, when the complexity leaves and I'm able with his help because it requires 542 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:08,840 the enabling power of his Atonement to help me to remove the fear and pride, I can't do 543 00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:09,840 that on my own. 544 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,840 I need the enabling power for me sometimes to do that. 545 00:36:12,840 --> 00:36:13,840 Absolutely. 546 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:15,840 To feel that joy in sorrow. 547 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:16,840 That's right. 548 00:36:16,840 --> 00:36:22,360 And so the Atonement of Jesus Christ is at process throughout this entire exercise or 549 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:23,880 this entire effort. 550 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:29,920 And as we go through that, and as I see this in the rooms of recovery too, you know, there's 551 00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:38,160 just a as we focus on the power that heals us, the power that redeems us, the power that 552 00:36:38,160 --> 00:36:42,880 brings us to him, that power will take care of our Heavenly Father's love, the Atonement 553 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:47,040 of Jesus Christ and all the powers that come through that will take care of our loved ones 554 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:48,040 too. 555 00:36:48,040 --> 00:36:49,040 Yeah, absolutely. 556 00:36:49,040 --> 00:36:50,040 They're their his kids. 557 00:36:50,040 --> 00:36:51,280 They were first. 558 00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,280 They were first. 559 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:53,880 They always will be. 560 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,760 There's nothing more that he wants for them to come back to his presence and and the Savior 561 00:36:59,760 --> 00:37:05,600 has said in prophets of coded prophets of coded prophets about this. 562 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,840 Jesus will never finish his work until all of God's children will come home. 563 00:37:10,840 --> 00:37:11,840 Right. 564 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:17,720 Deb and I didn't intend for us to go this long on this topic, but I will just I hopefully 565 00:37:17,720 --> 00:37:21,560 there's been some benefit and I believe there probably is through this conversation. 566 00:37:21,560 --> 00:37:26,440 But you know, Deb and I combined a family 20 something years ago. 567 00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,040 I should know the exact. 568 00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:29,040 We would 2002. 569 00:37:29,040 --> 00:37:31,760 It'll be 21 years in August of this year. 570 00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,600 And when we combine a family, you know, our kids mine and ours. 571 00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:36,600 Exactly. 572 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:37,600 No, ours. 573 00:37:37,600 --> 00:37:38,600 I mean, they're all ours now. 574 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:39,600 Yeah, yours and mine. 575 00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:40,600 Yeah. 576 00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:41,600 Yeah. 577 00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:44,080 And so and so when we combine that family, those this family comes in, the kids are about 578 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:51,120 the same age and they come from homes where addiction and both on both sides was an issue. 579 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:56,520 You know, and so with that comes a lot of other issues. 580 00:37:56,520 --> 00:38:02,000 And I'll never forget the time Deb and I had been and I don't even remember which kid 581 00:38:02,000 --> 00:38:04,080 it was that we were so worried about. 582 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,040 It could have been any of them. 583 00:38:06,040 --> 00:38:10,000 But there was a situation one time when we were just at our wits end, we'd been to the 584 00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,640 temple, we'd been fasting, we'd been to the temple again, we'd been fasting some more 585 00:38:14,640 --> 00:38:20,120 and just on and on trying to merit peace in our family's life. 586 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,560 We were trying to work towards peace in our family's life. 587 00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,120 And you know, and we got it, you know what brought it? 588 00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:30,560 The finally brought that peace was when we nailed down by the side of our bed together 589 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:31,560 after fasting. 590 00:38:31,560 --> 00:38:36,640 And I think after one of us, maybe probably her receiving some guidance from the spirit 591 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:42,000 that we should do this when we nailed down and we said, Heavenly Father, those children 592 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:46,400 are children were yours first and they still are. 593 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,320 We realize our relationship with them is eternal. 594 00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:56,400 We hope that it can be a family relationship eternally and that's our that's our desire, 595 00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,680 that's our aim, that's what we work for here. 596 00:38:58,680 --> 00:39:04,160 But we know that they were yours first and we're not doing a very good job accomplishing 597 00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:07,520 what we think we should be accomplishing right now. 598 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,360 We need you to take them back. 599 00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:16,080 And when we metaphorically, spiritually in a way gave them back to him and just told 600 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,120 him, Heavenly Father, we'll be your tool. 601 00:39:18,120 --> 00:39:21,880 Yeah, we'll partnership, we'll partner with you, do what you need us to do. 602 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,960 And we hope that we can live worthy enough to receive the inspiration from you in order 603 00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:26,960 to do that. 604 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:27,960 Yep. 605 00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:29,680 Tell us what to do and we'll do it. 606 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,680 And when we did that, our lives changed. 607 00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,160 That was 15 plus years ago. 608 00:39:34,160 --> 00:39:35,160 Your approach changes. 609 00:39:35,160 --> 00:39:37,240 It's been different. 610 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:41,520 Changes you, changes your approach, changes how you see it. 611 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:48,360 I had a dear friend who was a stake president who had a daughter who desired to have her 612 00:39:48,360 --> 00:39:56,720 name removed from the church and oh, he is sweet heart, such good people and prayed and 613 00:39:56,720 --> 00:39:58,680 prayed and prayed. 614 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:00,840 God please, please change her. 615 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,000 Please change her and help her to change her mind and change her heart. 616 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:13,680 And that was their prayer and it was, it was powerful and it was in faith and it was consistent 617 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:18,240 over many days and weeks and months. 618 00:40:18,240 --> 00:40:23,680 And one night they were praying and they were praying together and in the middle of this 619 00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:29,480 request, they both opened their eyes and they looked at each other and they said, did you, 620 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,520 did you hear that? 621 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:33,120 Did you feel that? 622 00:40:33,120 --> 00:40:42,040 Simultaneously, they had a powerful manifestation to, this was their thought that both of them 623 00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:48,200 had and it came to them as words in their mind. 624 00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,960 You just love her. 625 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,840 I will change her. 626 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:56,200 But for now, you just love her. 627 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,720 Your responsibility is to love her and I will change her. 628 00:41:00,720 --> 00:41:02,520 And they're still waiting for that change. 629 00:41:02,520 --> 00:41:07,080 God, after all these years and, and, but they have hope. 630 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:08,080 Sure. 631 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:09,080 They have peace. 632 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:10,080 They have knowledge. 633 00:41:10,080 --> 00:41:11,080 Yeah. 634 00:41:11,080 --> 00:41:13,680 They, they know God's in control. 635 00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:19,920 They're not in control and it just totally melded away their fear and their pride and 636 00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,560 all the negatives that go with that when we think that we're losing a child. 637 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:26,120 I mean, that's a real fear when you think you're losing a child. 638 00:41:26,120 --> 00:41:27,120 Yeah, it really is. 639 00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:30,600 Or that you might lose grandchildren because of a lost child or whatever. 640 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:31,600 Yeah, it really is. 641 00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:36,520 It's a real fear, but man, it can be swallowed up. 642 00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:42,960 It can be swallowed up in the love of Christ, the love of God, right in the atonement and 643 00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:49,320 pray on and hope on and, and faith and in the timing of the Lord. 644 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,280 Everything's going to be just fine. 645 00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:55,480 Everything is going to be just fine. 646 00:41:55,480 --> 00:42:01,560 So I, I know that's true for that father, for that son, for that family, for all. 647 00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:06,280 Family, for your family, for all of us. 648 00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,920 Well, um, we've taken up most of our, a lot of time for that, but I think that was important. 649 00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,360 I think that that's, yeah, I think the timing there is critical. 650 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:17,160 I think that the, and we keep getting that request. 651 00:42:17,160 --> 00:42:22,120 So just time to parents who are concerned about wayward children. 652 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,480 And it'll come up again. 653 00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:29,840 You know, this is a constant battle that I think we as parents continually fight or 654 00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:33,880 fight within ourselves sometimes, you know, but I think, you know, for me again, it's 655 00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:41,360 getting a lot easier to, to realize who really is in control and let him be, let him be in 656 00:42:41,360 --> 00:42:42,360 control. 657 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:48,040 Well, Dave, we've got about 15 minutes that we can kind of talk about, unless you have 658 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,760 anything else you want to kind of wrap up around that topic. 659 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:56,040 We, I think we should probably leave that Scott and, and maybe we can just wrap up some 660 00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,240 thoughts on the, we were in the heart of repentance. 661 00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:00,240 Right. 662 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:05,880 By this, you shall know if man repenteth of his sins, he will confess them and forsake 663 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:07,760 them. 664 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,440 And confession is such an critical part of repentance. 665 00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:17,960 And we spent a, our whole last podcast on that, Scott, but maybe there were just a few 666 00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,840 things that we should wrap up on them. 667 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:29,040 And I, I, with all the energy of my heart, I want to say that repentance is not an institutional 668 00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:30,040 activity. 669 00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:31,040 Amen. 670 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:32,040 Scott. 671 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:33,040 Amen. 672 00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:34,040 Amen. 673 00:43:34,040 --> 00:43:47,160 However, the church plays a critical role in repentance when serious sins have been committed. 674 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:53,720 And the handbook lists very clearly what some of those serious sins are. 675 00:43:53,720 --> 00:44:00,680 And the church plays a critical role in helping individuals to repent. 676 00:44:00,680 --> 00:44:06,200 The church has keys, the keys of the priesthood. 677 00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:08,320 There's power in that, Scott. 678 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:14,400 And part of the power of the keys of a bishop as president of the Aaronic priesthood is 679 00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:19,600 the keys of repentance, repentance and the administering of angels. 680 00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:20,600 Right. 681 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:21,600 And both can be critical. 682 00:44:21,600 --> 00:44:26,480 I mean, there's a whole, there's a whole chapter in Elder Anderson's book on the role of angels 683 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:28,080 in repentance. 684 00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:30,600 These two things are actually connected. 685 00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:38,680 That the bishop has a role to administer the keys of repentance and angels, administering 686 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:43,480 of angels and the atonement of Jesus Christ in the lives of others. 687 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:48,720 Scott, that, that's the keys that a bishop, a common judge in Israel has. 688 00:44:48,720 --> 00:44:55,360 So it's just really important that, that our listeners understand that church plays a really 689 00:44:55,360 --> 00:45:03,160 important, um, special role in helping us to repent of serious sins. 690 00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:09,320 And any member can look in the church handbook of instructions, which I love, which is chapter 691 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:11,920 32 in the church handbook of instructions. 692 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,760 This is all available to the public. 693 00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:19,080 They can look at the whole list of serious sins. 694 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,160 Uh, and here's, here's just a, uh, the beginning. 695 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:33,400 Violent acts and abuse, sexual immorality, any fraudulent acts, violations of trust and 696 00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,680 special, uh, some other acts. 697 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:43,280 And there are any time that murder or rape or sexual assault or child or youth abuse 698 00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:51,240 or abuse of a spouse or another adult or any predatory behavior, violent, sexual or financial, 699 00:45:51,240 --> 00:45:58,560 incest, pornography, especially children pornography, plural marriage, uh, serious sin while holding 700 00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:03,560 a prominent church position, most felony convictions. 701 00:46:03,560 --> 00:46:11,160 All of these, there's a long list of serious sins that must be confessed to the proper 702 00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:12,880 church authority. 703 00:46:12,880 --> 00:46:19,000 There may be a membership council that needs to be called, which again is a really serious, 704 00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:24,680 special, important part of repentance for those who have committed certain serious sins. 705 00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:29,600 And there might be a, uh, a bishops council, uh, bishop might preside over a membership 706 00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:35,200 council or a stake president might preside over a membership council on the stake level, 707 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:40,320 especially for those who have been endowed or married in the temple and received higher 708 00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:47,680 ordinances and made higher, uh, covenants or a mission president even has keys to administer 709 00:46:47,680 --> 00:46:50,080 over a membership council. 710 00:46:50,080 --> 00:46:56,800 And those membership councils, Scott, are, oh man, they are so spiritual, so powerful, 711 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,680 especially if the individual is repentant. 712 00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:06,080 Uh, I've been in some hard ones where that's not been the case and they're not always pleasant, 713 00:47:06,080 --> 00:47:11,120 but I've always felt the spirit in those membership councils, either to help a person 714 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:18,120 to repent or in a few rare instances to call a person to repentance. 715 00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:25,160 And they're really just councils of love filled with the spirit of the Lord to help an individual 716 00:47:25,160 --> 00:47:28,960 to receive all of the blessings of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 717 00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:32,800 And there is no sin that cannot be repented of. 718 00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:38,880 I mean, there's one sin that we call not only unforgivable but unpardonable, and that's 719 00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:44,600 the denying of the Holy Ghost, but I don't think any member that I know of would ever 720 00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:50,640 even want to repent or use the church to overcome that sin. 721 00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:56,600 Everyone who goes in to confess to the bishop, there's no sin that they cannot repent of 722 00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,400 and the church can help. 723 00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,840 The keys of the priesthood can help. 724 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:06,640 So, um, outcomes of membership councils to just review those quickly. 725 00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:10,160 There might be no action taken. 726 00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:12,920 Person may remain in good standing in the church. 727 00:48:12,920 --> 00:48:19,440 There may be some, uh, some informal action taken or church counseling perhaps required 728 00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,840 to help some individuals. 729 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:31,520 And there may be some, uh, uh, special restrictions on membership that may be placed on an individual. 730 00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:38,360 Uh, that maybe they, maybe they can't say prayers or participate in church meetings. 731 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,160 Uh, uh, I mean, they can't teach. 732 00:48:41,160 --> 00:48:46,160 They can't hold certain callings or there may be some membership restrictions or in the, 733 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:52,280 in the very worst cases, which would be rare, their, their membership may be withdrawn. 734 00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:55,520 You know, we use call that excommunication. 735 00:48:55,520 --> 00:48:58,240 We don't call that, call it that now. 736 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:00,320 Seems a little harsh. 737 00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:04,760 So we call it now because of the mercy of the Lord. 738 00:49:04,760 --> 00:49:10,520 Uh, in this culture, we call that withholding their membership. 739 00:49:10,520 --> 00:49:16,320 And those are kind of the, uh, the outcomes and, and the whole purpose of membership councils 740 00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:22,360 Scott in the church are really important for priesthood leaders to consider. 741 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:26,240 And they know these that number one, right? 742 00:49:26,240 --> 00:49:29,720 We are to protect any victims. 743 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:38,040 One who has been hurt or abused or victimized membership councils take into consideration 744 00:49:38,040 --> 00:49:43,960 the needs and the salvation and the recovery of any victims. 745 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:52,840 And second, we really consider the salvation of the individual who is confessing or who 746 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:57,360 has been caught in sin and maybe isn't confessing. 747 00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:06,960 Those are even harder, but that's such a critical consideration is the salvation of the individual. 748 00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:15,080 And then third is the consideration of the integrity of the church. 749 00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:24,160 Those are three of the considerations that often guide the outcomes of church membership 750 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,240 all under the direction of the spirit of the Lord. 751 00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:35,840 Ultimately, I mean individuals, some individuals Scott could commit the same sin and some may 752 00:50:35,840 --> 00:50:41,360 remain in good standing and maybe some lose their membership in the church. 753 00:50:41,360 --> 00:50:48,840 I mean, there's just, it's just all depends on background circumstances. 754 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:57,040 How many people were ended up being injured or hurt or suffered or how many people know 755 00:50:57,040 --> 00:51:02,200 about it, which affects the integrity of the church and what was the intent of the individual 756 00:51:02,200 --> 00:51:10,440 and motivation and anyway, all of that condition, all the conditions and circumstances are taken 757 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:14,000 into consideration, but ultimately the spirit of the Lord. 758 00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:23,520 I've got my experiences in those councils and I've been in many, many of those councils. 759 00:51:23,520 --> 00:51:26,320 The spirit of the Lord ultimately determines the outcome. 760 00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:32,960 Wouldn't it be safe to say to Dave in some of those situations that the ability to perceive 761 00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:37,600 a broken heart and contract spirit is definitely going to come to play into that too, right? 762 00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:38,600 Absolutely. 763 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:46,400 And sometimes these councils help an individual be able to experience a broken heart and contract 764 00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:47,400 spirit. 765 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:48,400 Yeah. 766 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:53,240 And a lot of times these councils help certain people have the ability to forgive themselves 767 00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:54,240 ultimately. 768 00:51:54,240 --> 00:51:56,240 Yes, absolutely. 769 00:51:56,240 --> 00:52:04,200 In fact, Scott, there was one man who came in a membership council many years ago who 770 00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:13,920 honestly, we knew the Lord had forgiven him, but we knew he had to be excommunicated, what 771 00:52:13,920 --> 00:52:20,160 we called it then, because if he wasn't, the spirit made it very clear to us that he'd 772 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:21,160 never forgive himself. 773 00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:23,000 He would never forgive himself. 774 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:24,000 Wow. 775 00:52:24,000 --> 00:52:25,000 Yeah. 776 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:33,800 And maybe there would be members of his family who would never forgive him or who would be 777 00:52:33,800 --> 00:52:40,680 negatively affected in their standing in the church if he was not excommunicated. 778 00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:47,880 So you know, there's just every case is different, but the one thing they all have in common, 779 00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:52,400 their councils of love, and they are directed by the spirit of Lord. 780 00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:54,640 That's been my experience in all of them. 781 00:52:54,640 --> 00:52:57,520 I've had my own experience there. 782 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:00,800 And you know, I'm not going to share in detail this time. 783 00:53:00,800 --> 00:53:05,560 If you wanted to hear that, you can go back to last season, this very episode last season 784 00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:06,920 I did share in some detail. 785 00:53:06,920 --> 00:53:13,280 But Dave, I've been through that to that council myself where there was a lifting of my membership 786 00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:15,480 excommunication. 787 00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:19,280 And you know, it was actually a blessing. 788 00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:24,720 So often, you know, I if you scroll through social media, you'll see somebody that's screaming 789 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:27,680 and yelling about the church is wrong because of this. 790 00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:32,240 If you go to, you know, various news outlets, you know, there's this is just one of those 791 00:53:32,240 --> 00:53:38,520 things that can sometimes be misconstrued and done so in a way that's just completely 792 00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:39,520 inaccurate. 793 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,800 And so and I know not everybody's experience is the same. 794 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:49,040 But for me, when that experience was my experience, I was one of those that had I have not been 795 00:53:49,040 --> 00:53:55,400 able to have the opportunity to experience what I experienced in a removal of my membership 796 00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:02,200 privileges at that time that there may have been a really difficult time and really difficult 797 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,000 for me, I should say, to complete the repentance process. 798 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:07,000 Absolutely, Scott. 799 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,400 There's just thank you for saying that. 800 00:54:08,400 --> 00:54:09,400 Absolutely. 801 00:54:09,400 --> 00:54:13,120 Yeah, I just I just don't think that, you know, there would have been a stoppage, a 802 00:54:13,120 --> 00:54:20,800 complete stoppage, you know, because the pattern in my life had become so ingrained. 803 00:54:20,800 --> 00:54:23,760 And for various reasons, and I don't want to get in and there's no blame game. 804 00:54:23,760 --> 00:54:24,760 There's none of that. 805 00:54:24,760 --> 00:54:26,480 But for whatever it is what it is. 806 00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:31,000 But for various reasons, it had been so the pattern had been so ingrained in me to be 807 00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:36,400 able to, you know, just kind of skirt my way around things to talk my way around it to, 808 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:41,600 you know, he's a good kid going back to that, you know, we let him know you're and I really, 809 00:54:41,600 --> 00:54:48,040 really rode that roller coaster for a long time and tell at that that event for me that 810 00:54:48,040 --> 00:54:52,760 that that membership counts and the keys of the priestess got termed and I heard that 811 00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,360 and I felt that. 812 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:57,800 I felt that and there's power and they will open up doors. 813 00:54:57,800 --> 00:55:02,600 Yeah, they'll open up doors that will help you to be either more accountable or more 814 00:55:02,600 --> 00:55:11,280 remorseful or more committed or or whatever they those keys are so are just so critical. 815 00:55:11,280 --> 00:55:17,360 There's been times through my experience when I was participating in my own addictive compulsive 816 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:21,920 behaviors and when others that I now help in Alcoholics Anonymous and other things like 817 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:27,520 that participate in their obsessive compulsive behaviors drinking, for example, you know, 818 00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:31,600 there were just times when I would promise swear it off, you know, in the big book of 819 00:55:31,600 --> 00:55:36,560 Alcoholics Anonymous, there's a whole a couple of paragraphs that talk about what we did, 820 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:41,120 you know, we'd swear it off with and without a oath, we'd make a deal with Heavenly Father, 821 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:44,880 we would make a promise to ourselves that if I ever did this again, then this would 822 00:55:44,880 --> 00:55:46,000 be my consequence. 823 00:55:46,000 --> 00:55:50,560 And even if it was my consequence, it wasn't enough for me to be deterred. 824 00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:57,120 And so when I had that that experience and went through that membership council and literally 825 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:01,720 felt the power of the priesthood, the keys of the priesthood being turned to my behalf 826 00:56:01,720 --> 00:56:08,040 to precipitate my repentance, which is my full turning back to him, which is the invitation 827 00:56:08,040 --> 00:56:14,440 to have the Spirit back in my life, which is an invitation for me to take his name upon 828 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,720 me and understand what that means and really be committed to it. 829 00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:21,000 If I had not have gone through that, I don't know. 830 00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,280 I don't know because I don't see forward, but there's pretty good chance and that's 831 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,520 probably why Heavenly Father put that in my path. 832 00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:30,960 Well, I know one thing, Scott, if you wouldn't have gone through that, you wouldn't be holding 833 00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:32,400 keys of the priesthood today. 834 00:56:32,400 --> 00:56:38,440 I mean, here you are now, all those years later, and you hold keys. 835 00:56:38,440 --> 00:56:46,240 So you know, that's the power of the miracle of the Atonement of Jesus Christ. 836 00:56:46,240 --> 00:56:50,160 And that's the miracle of repentance and forgiveness in our life. 837 00:56:50,160 --> 00:56:51,160 Right. 838 00:56:51,160 --> 00:56:54,920 And to our Father that we talked about earlier, I was your kid, dad. 839 00:56:54,920 --> 00:56:56,080 Don't give up on him. 840 00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:57,080 Yeah, exactly. 841 00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:58,880 Don't you give up on him. 842 00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:01,200 And don't you put love in him. 843 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,720 And don't you put impediment. 844 00:57:03,720 --> 00:57:07,720 Maybe that dad should see his son someday holding keys. 845 00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:08,720 Yep. 846 00:57:08,720 --> 00:57:09,720 Yep. 847 00:57:09,720 --> 00:57:11,200 Because that's how Heavenly Father sees him. 848 00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:18,680 I just want to ask you, and I've told this before, my good friend, Japanese brother in 849 00:57:18,680 --> 00:57:24,840 the Gospel, also a former bishop and had a wayward son and how he prayed for that wayward 850 00:57:24,840 --> 00:57:34,280 son and one day in the Chicago temple, praying in the celestial room for his wayward son. 851 00:57:34,280 --> 00:57:39,360 And he feels impressed to look up towards the veil and he looks up towards the veil 852 00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:42,720 and he sees with spiritual eyes. 853 00:57:42,720 --> 00:57:50,480 He sees his son coming through the veil clothed in the holy robes of the priesthood and he 854 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:53,000 just wept. 855 00:57:53,000 --> 00:58:01,320 He has never again lost peace or joy because of that wayward son and that wayward son has 856 00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:04,480 not yet gone through the temple. 857 00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:12,200 But he received a witness that someday he would and he had that he has that vision. 858 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:17,160 He has that hope, that assurance by the spirit. 859 00:58:17,160 --> 00:58:26,280 So I hope Scott, that all of our listeners can again exercise true, true, powerful faith 860 00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:34,520 in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and that there is no one who's been lost from Heavenly 861 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:38,800 Father that the Atonement of Jesus Christ can't save. 862 00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,200 It's been good, Dave, to be here to have this conversation with you today. 863 00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:47,000 To our listeners, we hope you know that you have been redeemed through his blood. 864 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:48,600 We hope you feel a spirit. 865 00:58:48,600 --> 00:58:51,840 We hope that we haven't extended an official. 866 00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:57,680 Typically we do, but we haven't extended an official invitation today, but maybe the spirit 867 00:58:57,680 --> 00:58:58,680 has. 868 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:04,680 And if you've felt a prompting from the spirit, an invitation to do something, to be something 869 00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,160 different or to participate in something, we invite you to do that. 870 00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:09,160 Encourage you to do so. 871 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,080 Don't forget that you have been redeemed through his blood. 872 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,320 Thanks for being with us today and always we look forward to being with you again next 873 00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:17,320 week as well. 874 00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:33,960 Until then, have a great week, everybody.