Hello, this is Leslie Kane. I am the host of the Why Not Today podcast. This podcast
is here to celebrate people who have been courageous and said, why not today? I started
the podcast in honor of my father, Patrick Kane, who often said, why not today? I'm based
in Reston, Virginia, a Planned community right outside of Washington, DC. And thanks for
joining us today. And I'm super excited about my guest, Marissa Roy, and I don't really
know her well. She discovered me on social media and we started connecting. And she's
from what I've seen, she has an interesting story. I haven't really figured it all out.
But I always talk about, you know, how do you connect and how do you meet people? And
so I was very impressed, Marissa, how you were very good with social media that you
were working with a friend of mine, and then I started following you and instantly you're
sending me messages and then very softly, really reconnecting and got my attention.
And I started watching you. I'm like, huh, I'm gonna get to know her. And, you know,
we make those connections like, okay, who do you know? And you're very good at connecting
me back to my friend, Jenna Lynn. And we're both, you used to live in Northern Virginia
area. So it's kind of when you can find a connection, I think you feel like you know
somebody. So I'm super excited to hear from you today. So welcome. So why don't we start
with, tell us a little about you and who you are and a fun fact that people might not know.
And then let's get into the courage stuff. Cool. Well, I can basically say any fact,
right? Because you basically don't know a lot about me. Okay, yeah. So thanks for having
me. First of all, I'm super excited. This, as we'll get into it, this whole like mantra
is like, just so relevant to my story. So I'm excited to just be able to share it. So
yeah, like you said, I grew up in the Northern Virginia area. I have lived there my entire
life except for up to May of last year on May of 2022, my husband and I moved to North
Carolina. So we're outside of Charlotte now. But I am a born and bred Nova person. James
Madison in Vienna. Okay. Yeah. And so I guess a fun fact about me would be that I found
my roots in athletics and fitness and performance and all these fun things with volleyball.
I basically played a bunch of different sports. I'm an only child. That's another fun fact.
So I basically got to try every sport between like rollerblading down the block to playing
wiffle ball in the front yard with my dad to doing lacrosse, basketball, soccer leagues,
and all of it was fine. I was, you know, at least half decent at most of them, but nothing
really clicked for me until I started playing volleyball. And like the day I started, I
was hooked and I dropped every other sport. And I'm very much third fun fact, very all
in type of person. So once I find something that I love, I just double down on it. And
it was like that with volleyball. It was like that with fitness, with business, all those
things. But you know, when I was like 10, 11 years old, I had all these sports under
my belt and I was like, Nope, like volleyball is the one. And I proceeded to do that year
round for basically the rest of elementary school, middle school, high school, college.
Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's a, that's a fun fact. Okay. Yay. Well, tell me, we're gonna
start with talking about courage. What does courage mean to you? What does courage mean
to me? Well, I would say that a lot of times people mistake courage for doing things in
the absence of fear. But I would say that courage is doing things with fear present,
but doing it anyways, because that's how we grow. And that's how we push ourselves to
become the next level or the next version of ourselves. So whatever it is you're trying
to do, if you are being courageous about it, it doesn't mean that you're fearless. And
being fearless, I think is a impossible state to get to because we all have fear and we're
all human. So how can we be courageous instead? How can we have that fear, own that fear,
and then be able to progress and take steps towards our goals anyways? Love that. So I
don't know if you checked out my website at all, which brand new launched at the end of
the year. So I'm super excited about that, but I've put courage cards on it. So everybody
that I asked what courage means, we've made courage cards with the definition of courage.
So love that. All right. So what have you done in your life that takes courage? So I
know, tell us about your business, how you got there. I'm very intrigued about what this
is like. So let's share that. Yeah, I think the whole story kind of like really kind of
flows into each other from where I even just left off with talking about volleyball. So
like I said, I was very much an all in type of person. So I played volleyball through
all of my years of middle school, high school year round. It was basically my whole life.
It was, I was either doing homework or I was traveling to volleyball tournaments and at
practice or at extra conditioning or clinics and all these things. And basically that whole
world of athletics got me interested in how do I best fuel my body for performance with
nutrition and how do I get better at the sport? And that's where it all stemmed from. And
so I was starting to take like on the side of practice, strength and conditioning classes
where I would learn how to lift weights. It wasn't really like traditional lifting, but
it was enough to like get me some strength, improve my vertical, that sort of thing. And
I was really interested in the nutrition and like high school is really when it all started
when I really, really wanted to learn more about how to best fuel my body. Unfortunately,
the internet is a place of many, many different sources of information. And there's more now,
which is even scarier to think about, but with Google and like all the different social
media platforms that were starting to like boom at the time, I was like, well, I'm just
going to do whatever research that I can. And unfortunately I found myself falling into
the trap that a lot of the clients that we work with now have been in for years or decades,
which is where I found, you know, kind of my purpose with the business that I started.
I fell into the trap of downloading my fitness pal following its recommendations, which by
the way, those are horrible recommendations of eating 1200 calories a day of restricting
myself to lose fat. And like I was saying that I wanted to improve my performance, but
what I was really doing was trying to get skinnier or lose weight or look like the models
on the covers of magazines, because that's what I was looking at at the time. And I thought,
well, if I want to look like that, then I need to eat a certain way. And the only way
that I figured out how to do that was through eating quote unquote healthy, which my definition
of that at the time was restriction and not having sweets and eating 1200 calories. And
it led me into a very vicious cycle of basically only making it two or three days of doing
that successfully if that, and then just binging on everything that was in the pantry or the
fridge or you know, whatever it was and feeling terribly guilty and awful about myself because
I felt like something was wrong with me. And I felt like I had no willpower. I had no discipline.
I was the problem because I couldn't stick to the plan. And as a teenage girl that did
quite a number on my self confidence and self advocacy and all these things. And the only
thing that brought me out of it was finally stumbling across the right resources on social
media because Instagram was starting to become more popular at this time. And I found some
more evidence based practitioners that were preaching how to actually fill your body with
more food, how to incorporate your favorite foods in moderation, why strength training
is better than cardio for looking the way that you want to look. And these these beliefs
are still very much perpetuated throughout this industry, but it's getting better. The
messaging is getting better. But there is still a lot of BS out there. And so I stumbled
across the right people very early on and immersed myself in that knowledge. And so
here's the common theme. I found that I was like, Wow, I love that. I went all in on it.
So as soon as I graduated from high school, I said, I'm going to do something with this
right away. So I started personal training at a local gym, immediately got my CPT and
certified personal trainer, sorry, immediately started training clients in person at a basic
corporate gym, did that for about six months and was basically just burnt out because I'm
another fun fact, very much an introvert. And I was very drained by training clients
in person and just the like constant engagement that that takes and the split shifts and all
of that stuff. So I saw that at the same time, these evidence based practitioners that I
was following listening to learning from were also taking their businesses online. So this
is about 2015 2016. And March 8. So funny enough, three days from when you started your
business, yeah, March 8 of 2016, I decided why not today? And I put up a very, very,
very ugly website from site builder.com. I was still 18 years old at the time. And I
just said, like, why not? And genuinely, genuinely, I do not remember really thinking that hard
about it. I literally just did it. And it just happened. I started taking on some clients
for free. I started taking on my first few clients online for like 50 bucks a month.
And like, just, hey, give me experience. Can I coach you for free? Can I do this? Figuring
it out. Thankfully, I was an 18 year old without that many responsibilities at the time. But
over the course of the next couple of years, I was able to pull create that to become a
full time income. And by 2018, I was supporting myself financially. And I was just coaching
clients one on one. And it was like me, my email, Excel sheets. And the funny enough
thing is that I originally started the business because I was like, wow, I can sit here in
sweatpants and not see anyone or talk to anyone. I could just send emails. Sounds amazing for
my introvert self. Fast forward seven years and I'm on zoom basically back to back all
day long talking to people, speaking in front of big crowds, like doing basically the opposite
of what an introvert would want to do. I love it. But it's just ironic and funny how that
all works out. You know, the best definition I've ever heard of introvert and extrovert,
which kind of lived, it really worked as introvert. You get energy from being alone. Extrovert,
you get energy from being with people. So if you're an introvert, you need to make sure
you're fitting time if you're in front of all these people fitting time in to fill you
back up.
Oh, absolutely. I remember I had my first speaking gig in a very long time, actually
a couple of weeks ago. And afterwards, I had to drive home from Northern Virginia to North
Carolina, like a six hour drive. And I was wiped. I was chugging coffee on the drive
home because I had just poured so much into that crowd of people. And I was like, Oh my
goodness, I am tired.
Exactly. I know the feeling.
Yeah, but essentially, that's kind of the whole origin story of why not today how my
business came to be. And just to kind of fast forward us to where we are today. In 2021,
I decided I wanted to scale my business to a bigger mission. And so I ended up starting
to hire a team. And now I have a staff of 13 amazing individuals. We've served over
180 190 now, people since August of 2021 to transform their lives. And what we do is we
help women who have been in that toxic yo yo dieting cycle for years or for decades
to get out of that, find the body that they love, and be able to actually keep it permanently
because of the mindset and the lifestyle changes that they put in place that make it a permanent
change. Hence the name of the company.
And what's the name of your company?
Permanent Change Coaching.
I like that. Yeah, because there are so many different things out there, as you said, in
different sources. And everybody believes what they see online, which is scary. Probably
my favorite story about that is a friend of mine owns a restaurant locally. And another
friend had come her and her husband came and had a great experience, love the restaurant.
And then they had some friends coming from town. So they recommended the restaurant.
Well, the people went on Google and saw bad Yelp review and believe the stranger on Yelp
versus their friends. Yeah, experience it. I'm like, what have we come to? Yeah. Yeah,
believing everything that shows up online. So I love your philosophies. And it's a permanent
change. And it's and you starting your business like why not today and jumping all in and
I am definitely an all in kind of girl also. And I've had to train myself to like, Okay,
what can you do today? Yeah, little things and not having to do in with like exercise
and working out years ago, I was the all in girl that I would go and like, all right,
today, January 1, I'm getting healthy. I go to the gym and lift so many weights and do
so much exercise. I couldn't move for a week. Yeah. Finally, when I started my fitness journey,
it was like, Okay, what can I do today and commit once a week? And I started taking water
aerobics of all things. And it's like, I love that. And then it was twice a week. And by
June, it was several times a week. And by October, I was teaching. That's awesome. All right,
I can do this. So but yeah, take that courage to get out of bed and just do the things and
to take care of ourselves. Yeah, I know, you know, we're talking about courage and starting
your business. But let's talk about some of the courageous things that you teach as part
of your coaching that may be a little different. Or this permanent change.
Okay, yeah, well, I would say that doing anything differently than the way you've done it before
takes courage, because it's scary to try a different approach, right. And it's a delicate
balance with the like, we work with a lot of women that are that all in type of person,
and they've been all or nothing with their fitness journey, basically their whole life,
where it's like, I'm either going to the gym six days a week, for an hour, two hours, and
dedicating everything, I have to drop everything to prioritize my fitness. And again, the best
shape of my life, and then it lasts for like two weeks. And then it's gone, because then it's then
it's back to nothing, right. And so I would say what takes courage is challenging those beliefs.
And that's where it starts is if you want sustainable change, and you want permanent
change in your health and your fitness journey. And ideally, right, the end goal for all of these
women is not just okay, I want to lose a certain number of pounds, but it's I want the lifestyle
to be something that's just, it's just a part of my life, rather than something that I'm on and
I'm off because that that roller coaster is exhausting. And where that really starts is
just with your beliefs and learning what they are finding awareness around them. What do I believe
about exercise? What do I believe about nutrition? And kind of just questioning, like, is that
actually true? Like, I the belief I need to work out five days a week for an hour to see results?
Is that actually true? Or is that just what your experience was the last time that you got in shape?
And the problem with that is people don't know what they don't know. So what we do is we provide
the got the guidance and the education and the knowledge to help our clients learn that, no,
actually, you can work out four days a week for 2025 minutes at a time, and see great results,
as long as our nutrition is dialed in to. But, you know, we have this such this all or nothing
thinking that the belief holds us back from doing anything less than five days a week for an hour,
or whatever the belief is. And we don't do anything at all. And then we're not getting anywhere.
So we have to start with just kind of a, honestly, just self awareness, which takes courage,
because it's uncomfortable to really look at yourself, honestly, in the mirror like that.
So I would say that's that's where the courage starts. Yeah. And the self awareness piece is so
important. And self coaching to say, is this going to work for me, or not. And, again, that all or
nothing, you know, all these diets, and I know things have worked for a lot of people, but all
this all or nothing kind of thing, like you can't have this, you can't have that. As soon as you tell
me I can't have something, I'm flexibility girl, I mean, like be told to do for me, like, you tell
me I can't have something, then it's like, okay, give it to me. I crave it, you see it, you want it.
Well, that's why we own our own businesses, right? Because we don't want to be told what to do by
anyone. Exactly. Yeah, I came upon that years ago, when I realized, you know, I need that
flexibility. My each day is different, because, you know, and I need health and fitness to be
flexible with my life. Like, I can't be a member of a gym when I'm gone 200 days out of the year,
you know, and be able to make it work for your life. And the way, you know, you're thinking so.
So, I kind of talked about a lot of the questions I go over.
So how'd you feel after starting your business? Right, Joyce? Ever regret it? I mean, definitely
don't regret it. Like I said, it was just kind of ironic how it ended up like the intention of
starting it was let me avoid people. And then it ended up being like, I get to meet so many awesome
people, like, like how we just randomly connected, like you followed me through a client, I was like,
hey, you know, gentlemen, this is really cool. And now here we are, like, I just love this stuff. But
it's just ironic knowing what the intention was. Back in 2016. I was like, let me just
hide behind my computer. But yeah, I mean, how do we win? Or I know, right with my Mary Kay business,
when I first got out of college, my mom's friends and sell it Mary Kay, I said, don't ever talk to
me. I'm never going to buy it. I'm never going to sell it. 28 years ago. We are. Yeah. How do I feel
after I said, why not today? You know, I have, I don't think I have a poor memory. But I think
that I was just so and something that I believe is a strength of mine and can also be a weakness,
if taken too far, is that I'm very, very action driven. And so I'll take a lot of messy action
and not really think twice about it. And I almost think that that ignorance at the time was my
superpower because I was an 18 year old. I had no reason to believe that anyone would take me seriously.
Right. And I went ahead and just like, didn't think about it. I just was like, all right, here it is.
I remember feeling very excited. But I don't really remember second guessing. And I think it was just
pure like ignorance is bliss. Like, if we're being completely honest. And that's a good thing. It's
just like, take the idea and run with it. I'm not I'm like you. It's just like, very rarely do I take
a long time and like, you know what, I'm just going to do it. And that's how this podcast all started.
It's like, okay, I'm going to do it. And this is the date and I had no idea what it was going to look
like. And it's taken me a while to get it going. I mentioned the website, and I started this in
March and every day on my to do list was work on a website, work on a website. And finally,
beginning of December, I'm like, you know what, I need to get this done before year end and finish
it and have it finished. So one of those things is just like learning it every day you go. And I
think that's with any business endeavor that it's just starting. And that's the hardest thing.
Yeah, figured out. And like finding like just putting those deadlines on the calendar,
like I don't think I necessarily had a deadline when I started my business. I think I
probably put the website up start to finish in a matter of 24 hours, probably because I was just
like, all right, we're doing this today. But when it comes to those projects, like I remember when
I started my podcast with one of my best friends, who's also a fitness coach, she owns her own
business, similar to mine. And we wanted to start a barbell lifestyle podcast. Yeah. So we started
in December of 2020. And I remember like bringing it up to her probably only a few weeks prior to
when we actually started it. And then we just set a really aggressive timeline for when we were going
to start it. And like, when you do that, it just happens, right? It forces you to do the things on
time, rather than being like, well, you know, I'll start tomorrow or whatever. One of my favorite
quotes, things start happening too. Yeah. One of my favorite quotes from Alex Hermosy, who's someone
I love to follow, who's just like an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, that that sort of person
is one of the ways to never be successful, never make any money, never enjoy your life, is to start
tomorrow. And if you start tomorrow, then like you will just, you will ruin whatever business that
you have started. Yeah. And that's why, you know, the whole mantra of why not today, there was a
restaurant in Reston years ago and they had a sign in there. I'll never forget it. It's free beer
tomorrow. Yeah. Never going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Just got to do it. And I think once you get an
idea and put into motion, you have the passion behind it, you're excited, then things do start
happening and fall, falling into place. I had a mentor one time, she said, things don't fall in
your lap unless your lap is out there. And so when you're out doing things, then, you know, you're
already out in front of people. And it just, I love that. So, and I have a question for you.
You started as an entrepreneur super young, 18 and very young. But you know, it's interesting,
I was talking to somebody the other day about the kids these days and they're starting businesses,
you know, entrepreneurs, super young, but were your parents entrepreneurs or they worked for
somebody? My mom was not. My mom was immigrated from Korea when she was 13 years old. And so she
has always kind of, she's been in like the government contracting world. So, I mean,
very typical for the Northern Virginia area. And my dad, I would say I picked this up from him,
which is also why I love the inspiration for your podcast, because it's such a deep connection to
your dad. And I actually also have a tattoo in remembrance and in my dad's not dead, but he
inspired this phrase, which is D I W E do it with enthusiasm. And I was going through a really hard
time last summer. And I was asking him for some advice just about life and certain decisions that
I had to make. And basically his advice was something that his dad said. And he said,
whatever you do, do it with enthusiasm, love it because it's your choice. Right. And if you're
going to choose to do it, then do it with enthusiasm. And so I got that tattooed over
the summer last year. And I'm sure that when he passes, I will probably add on to the artwork
around this, but he was, or he is still, he will never stop working. He is an engineer, software,
hardware. He never finished college though, but he's probably taken enough college credits to
probably have like three or four degrees. He just never finished it. And because he doesn't have any
letters behind his name, he always kind of had to be an entrepreneur in a way he's started multiple
businesses. He's won government contracts for certain projects with a bunch of different like,
like international security projects, NASA, the FBI, CIA, all these different things that he's been
able to do without like the typical credentials that an engineer would need. And he actually is
on an entrepreneurial journey right now. I'll give him a shameless plug here. He has a business
called Call Genie and I'm super proud of it. It's awesome. So it's, it's basically a way like,
you know how with like Skype or like Amazon, they have that new feature where you can like pull up a
video call on your TV. So it's basically that, but it allows families to pop in on their elderly
family members without needing the elderly family members permission. So it's basically like a way
to check on, you know, grandma, grandpa. Is that, is that the thing, like an Amazon thing?
But it, or a lot. So it's completely separate. Okay. It's completely separate, but I'm just giving
the analogy of like, if you have a video call on your TV, yeah. But it just, without the permission
of the, the, the person on the other end saying like, oh yeah, accept the call. Cause they might
not be able to, they might not be cognitively there enough to do that. Yeah. And so he's,
he's working on that and working on scaling that and putting in software and technical
technology to where there's motion sensors to detect like, oh, if they fall, you turn on the call
right away, get in touch with the family so they can call 911 or like if there's, you know, not
enough movement, like tuning in, seeing like, Hey, are they, are they sleeping? Like what's going on?
And just putting in those safety metrics as well. So he's on that journey right now. I think he
started that maybe about a year ago. So I wanted to give him that plug cause it's super dope.
Well, you know what, another, and I always like to connect and help people with ideas is another
market he might be able to tap into is my youngest sister has Down syndrome. And so in that world,
I'm on the board of directors of a group home in the area. And that might be good. I don't know
about privacy stuff, but a good thing for people with disabilities living on their own too.
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that would be a great market. I can definitely put you in contact.
And the reason I asked if your parents were entrepreneurs, one thing I've discovered is
more often than not, if you have an entrepreneur track, you were raised by somebody with an
entrepreneur. Like my dad owned his own business and I watched him, you know, he was there for all
of our soccer games and all of our activities. And yet at night, after dinner, he went into his
office and worked, you know, he'd worked a lot, but he still was there for the things that are
important. That's exactly, that was exactly my experience. Like I didn't, the, the, the,
like I didn't, the, the crazy thing is, is I never knew how many hours a week he worked because he
was always present for me. But when I asked him in hindsight, cause now we can have these conversations
cause I'm just old enough, mature enough to like understand all this stuff. Now he was probably
clocking 80, 90 hours a week, just on a normal week. Like that was just his life. That's what he did.
And I never had any idea. Yeah. Because that's the same as my dad. He was very present
and he actually took when I was 16, my parents bought an RV and we traveled for five weeks
across country and we would stop at a campsite and he'd go to the pay phone and work. And I didn't
realize what he gave us as gifts that was able to do that. And I've been able to model that with my
world and my life. I don't have kids, but I have seven nieces and nephews and I've been able to take
them on vacations and not miss any school play or do any of those things and be there to help her.
So yeah, owning your own business is definitely, if you got it in you, it's definitely the way to go.
And so I encourage people through this podcast to do the things that's scary and just try it.
You just never know. Yeah. Well, the thing about like this day and age too, is like,
everything hinges. And like, I know this is why like you were also intrigued by like my,
my personal brand, but everything hinges on personal branding. So how do you show up on
social media? Who are you? Because it doesn't matter what you're selling, what your business is.
Like people don't buy into the products they buy into you. So me as a personality is a lot of times
the attracting feature for people to come to PCC. And so how I show up, how I present myself on
social media, like that is your marketing, no matter if I was selling socks or coaching, right?
And that's so important. It's interesting. You know, I listened to a podcast one time talking
about personal brand and it's like, the reason you post a picture of your food and what you're
doing is people get to know, like, and trust you. And my sister ran into Tucson, she's got a new job,
one of my other sisters, and there's a couple of people she worked with and they're like, oh my
gosh, I love Lovely. She's your sister. Like, I haven't seen her talk to these people in years.
And then they love and adore me because they see me on social media and what I do.
Yeah. So you just never know. All right. So we could talk forever and ever, but I always ask,
what encouragement would you give somebody to say, why not today? I know we've kind of talked about
it. Yeah. Yeah. What encouragement would I give somebody to say, why not today?
I would say, why not today? And I would also beg you to ask yourself, why not me? Like a lot of
times it's like, okay, why not today? Like putting the urgency behind it starting now rather than
tomorrow. But another place where like self doubt kind of roots itself is like, well, I'm not capable
of that. Like I'm not meant for those greater things, whether that's a fitness goal, a business
goal, like anything we tend to just like think that we're special and something is so wrong with
us that we can't achieve the thing that we want. But the reality of it is, is that like, I'm not
special. You're not special. No one is so special that we can start our own businesses and someone
else can't. Right. And so the question I would ask you to ask yourself is why not me? And really
like dig into that question. Why not you? Like there is, there is nothing inherently wrong with
you to the point where you can't get what you want out of life. It is all there for you. There are
fricking five year olds making a million dollars by posting Twitch streaming on YouTube. It's
incredibly frustrating. And my kids will not have technology until they need to go to sports
premises and text me when to pick them up. Yeah. Because that, that whole thing is, it's just,
I'm still, I think I'm a little bit mentally ahead of myself in terms of age when it comes to like
my perceptions around technology. Cause I'm like AI, like screw that. I don't, I don't want anything
to do with that. That's scary. My kids aren't touching TV. They're not touching an iPad until
they're like 15, but that's beside the point. Yeah. Why not you really dig into that? You're not,
you're not so special in the fact that you're broken or incapable or incompetent of achieving
whatever it is you want. Usually the gap between where you are, where you want to be is just a
matter of finding the right knowledge, guidance, support, education, or just taking some action.
Everything is figure out. Yeah. I have a mentor that said that to me, why not me? And I remember
exactly where I was in my car when she said it to me. And it's always that. The other thing I don't
know, I have a diamond Bumblebee ring. I love that. But it's a Mary Kay prize and Mary Kay. So
do you know the story behind the Bumblebee? No. Okay. According to law fund physics, a Bumblebee
shouldn't fly. It weighs too much for its wings. Oh yeah. So as women, we're often told we can't
do something, but we can do anything we put our mind to. And so Mary Kay gives us diamond Bumblebees
as prizes as a reminder of that. So yeah, why not me? And just get started. Say why not they?
Well, this has been fun. I love getting to know you and I can't wait to get to know you a little
bit more. So tell us how people can get in touch with you and you will for sure follow up because
you're so good. And then we'll share in the show notes information about your contact information.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'll just, I'll just keep it simple. Like Instagram is the easiest
place. I'm the most active there. Um, like I'm on a bunch of different platforms, but like the,
the primary is just direct everything back to the Instagram profile. So that's just Marissa Roy
fitness. So one R two S is, um, Marissa Roy fitness and yeah, just shoot me a DM or, you know,
check out the page, follow for funny or insightful reels and content.
Well, thank you. It's been fun to have you on and I love people and I love that. I didn't really
know you until today. Um, thank you everybody for listening and you can find the why not today
podcast on iTunes and app and Google and Spotify, all the places. Um, I, my website is active now,
check out the why not today podcast website. And when you go listen to the podcast, let me know
you're listening, follow us on Instagram, on Facebook, um, rate review, um, share the podcast
and let us know you're listening. So thanks again for listening today and thank you Marissa for
sharing your courage story. Thank you so much.