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Hello, this is Leslie Kane. I am the host of the Why Not Today podcast. This podcast

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is here to celebrate people who have been courageous and said, why not today? I started

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the podcast in honor of my father, Patrick Kane, who often said, why not today? I'm based

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in Reston, Virginia, a Planned community right outside of Washington, DC. And thanks for

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joining us today. And I'm super excited about my guest, Marissa Roy, and I don't really

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know her well. She discovered me on social media and we started connecting. And she's

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from what I've seen, she has an interesting story. I haven't really figured it all out.

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But I always talk about, you know, how do you connect and how do you meet people? And

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so I was very impressed, Marissa, how you were very good with social media that you

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were working with a friend of mine, and then I started following you and instantly you're

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sending me messages and then very softly, really reconnecting and got my attention.

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And I started watching you. I'm like, huh, I'm gonna get to know her. And, you know,

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we make those connections like, okay, who do you know? And you're very good at connecting

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me back to my friend, Jenna Lynn. And we're both, you used to live in Northern Virginia

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area. So it's kind of when you can find a connection, I think you feel like you know

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somebody. So I'm super excited to hear from you today. So welcome. So why don't we start

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with, tell us a little about you and who you are and a fun fact that people might not know.

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And then let's get into the courage stuff. Cool. Well, I can basically say any fact,

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right? Because you basically don't know a lot about me. Okay, yeah. So thanks for having

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me. First of all, I'm super excited. This, as we'll get into it, this whole like mantra

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is like, just so relevant to my story. So I'm excited to just be able to share it. So

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yeah, like you said, I grew up in the Northern Virginia area. I have lived there my entire

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life except for up to May of last year on May of 2022, my husband and I moved to North

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Carolina. So we're outside of Charlotte now. But I am a born and bred Nova person. James

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Madison in Vienna. Okay. Yeah. And so I guess a fun fact about me would be that I found

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my roots in athletics and fitness and performance and all these fun things with volleyball.

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I basically played a bunch of different sports. I'm an only child. That's another fun fact.

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So I basically got to try every sport between like rollerblading down the block to playing

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wiffle ball in the front yard with my dad to doing lacrosse, basketball, soccer leagues,

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and all of it was fine. I was, you know, at least half decent at most of them, but nothing

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really clicked for me until I started playing volleyball. And like the day I started, I

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was hooked and I dropped every other sport. And I'm very much third fun fact, very all

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in type of person. So once I find something that I love, I just double down on it. And

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it was like that with volleyball. It was like that with fitness, with business, all those

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things. But you know, when I was like 10, 11 years old, I had all these sports under

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my belt and I was like, Nope, like volleyball is the one. And I proceeded to do that year

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round for basically the rest of elementary school, middle school, high school, college.

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Yeah. So, um, yeah, that's a, that's a fun fact. Okay. Yay. Well, tell me, we're gonna

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start with talking about courage. What does courage mean to you? What does courage mean

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to me? Well, I would say that a lot of times people mistake courage for doing things in

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the absence of fear. But I would say that courage is doing things with fear present,

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but doing it anyways, because that's how we grow. And that's how we push ourselves to

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become the next level or the next version of ourselves. So whatever it is you're trying

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to do, if you are being courageous about it, it doesn't mean that you're fearless. And

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being fearless, I think is a impossible state to get to because we all have fear and we're

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all human. So how can we be courageous instead? How can we have that fear, own that fear,

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and then be able to progress and take steps towards our goals anyways? Love that. So I

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don't know if you checked out my website at all, which brand new launched at the end of

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the year. So I'm super excited about that, but I've put courage cards on it. So everybody

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that I asked what courage means, we've made courage cards with the definition of courage.

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So love that. All right. So what have you done in your life that takes courage? So I

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know, tell us about your business, how you got there. I'm very intrigued about what this

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is like. So let's share that. Yeah, I think the whole story kind of like really kind of

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flows into each other from where I even just left off with talking about volleyball. So

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like I said, I was very much an all in type of person. So I played volleyball through

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all of my years of middle school, high school year round. It was basically my whole life.

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It was, I was either doing homework or I was traveling to volleyball tournaments and at

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practice or at extra conditioning or clinics and all these things. And basically that whole

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world of athletics got me interested in how do I best fuel my body for performance with

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nutrition and how do I get better at the sport? And that's where it all stemmed from. And

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so I was starting to take like on the side of practice, strength and conditioning classes

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where I would learn how to lift weights. It wasn't really like traditional lifting, but

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it was enough to like get me some strength, improve my vertical, that sort of thing. And

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I was really interested in the nutrition and like high school is really when it all started

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when I really, really wanted to learn more about how to best fuel my body. Unfortunately,

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the internet is a place of many, many different sources of information. And there's more now,

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which is even scarier to think about, but with Google and like all the different social

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media platforms that were starting to like boom at the time, I was like, well, I'm just

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going to do whatever research that I can. And unfortunately I found myself falling into

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the trap that a lot of the clients that we work with now have been in for years or decades,

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which is where I found, you know, kind of my purpose with the business that I started.

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I fell into the trap of downloading my fitness pal following its recommendations, which by

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the way, those are horrible recommendations of eating 1200 calories a day of restricting

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myself to lose fat. And like I was saying that I wanted to improve my performance, but

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what I was really doing was trying to get skinnier or lose weight or look like the models

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on the covers of magazines, because that's what I was looking at at the time. And I thought,

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well, if I want to look like that, then I need to eat a certain way. And the only way

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that I figured out how to do that was through eating quote unquote healthy, which my definition

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of that at the time was restriction and not having sweets and eating 1200 calories. And

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it led me into a very vicious cycle of basically only making it two or three days of doing

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that successfully if that, and then just binging on everything that was in the pantry or the

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fridge or you know, whatever it was and feeling terribly guilty and awful about myself because

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I felt like something was wrong with me. And I felt like I had no willpower. I had no discipline.

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I was the problem because I couldn't stick to the plan. And as a teenage girl that did

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quite a number on my self confidence and self advocacy and all these things. And the only

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thing that brought me out of it was finally stumbling across the right resources on social

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media because Instagram was starting to become more popular at this time. And I found some

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more evidence based practitioners that were preaching how to actually fill your body with

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more food, how to incorporate your favorite foods in moderation, why strength training

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is better than cardio for looking the way that you want to look. And these these beliefs

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are still very much perpetuated throughout this industry, but it's getting better. The

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messaging is getting better. But there is still a lot of BS out there. And so I stumbled

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across the right people very early on and immersed myself in that knowledge. And so

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here's the common theme. I found that I was like, Wow, I love that. I went all in on it.

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So as soon as I graduated from high school, I said, I'm going to do something with this

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right away. So I started personal training at a local gym, immediately got my CPT and

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certified personal trainer, sorry, immediately started training clients in person at a basic

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corporate gym, did that for about six months and was basically just burnt out because I'm

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another fun fact, very much an introvert. And I was very drained by training clients

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in person and just the like constant engagement that that takes and the split shifts and all

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of that stuff. So I saw that at the same time, these evidence based practitioners that I

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was following listening to learning from were also taking their businesses online. So this

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is about 2015 2016. And March 8. So funny enough, three days from when you started your

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business, yeah, March 8 of 2016, I decided why not today? And I put up a very, very,

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very ugly website from site builder.com. I was still 18 years old at the time. And I

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just said, like, why not? And genuinely, genuinely, I do not remember really thinking that hard

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about it. I literally just did it. And it just happened. I started taking on some clients

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for free. I started taking on my first few clients online for like 50 bucks a month.

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And like, just, hey, give me experience. Can I coach you for free? Can I do this? Figuring

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it out. Thankfully, I was an 18 year old without that many responsibilities at the time. But

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over the course of the next couple of years, I was able to pull create that to become a

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full time income. And by 2018, I was supporting myself financially. And I was just coaching

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clients one on one. And it was like me, my email, Excel sheets. And the funny enough

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thing is that I originally started the business because I was like, wow, I can sit here in

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sweatpants and not see anyone or talk to anyone. I could just send emails. Sounds amazing for

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my introvert self. Fast forward seven years and I'm on zoom basically back to back all

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day long talking to people, speaking in front of big crowds, like doing basically the opposite

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of what an introvert would want to do. I love it. But it's just ironic and funny how that

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all works out. You know, the best definition I've ever heard of introvert and extrovert,

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which kind of lived, it really worked as introvert. You get energy from being alone. Extrovert,

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you get energy from being with people. So if you're an introvert, you need to make sure

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you're fitting time if you're in front of all these people fitting time in to fill you

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back up.

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Oh, absolutely. I remember I had my first speaking gig in a very long time, actually

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a couple of weeks ago. And afterwards, I had to drive home from Northern Virginia to North

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Carolina, like a six hour drive. And I was wiped. I was chugging coffee on the drive

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home because I had just poured so much into that crowd of people. And I was like, Oh my

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goodness, I am tired.

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Exactly. I know the feeling.

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Yeah, but essentially, that's kind of the whole origin story of why not today how my

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business came to be. And just to kind of fast forward us to where we are today. In 2021,

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I decided I wanted to scale my business to a bigger mission. And so I ended up starting

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to hire a team. And now I have a staff of 13 amazing individuals. We've served over

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180 190 now, people since August of 2021 to transform their lives. And what we do is we

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help women who have been in that toxic yo yo dieting cycle for years or for decades

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to get out of that, find the body that they love, and be able to actually keep it permanently

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because of the mindset and the lifestyle changes that they put in place that make it a permanent

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change. Hence the name of the company.

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And what's the name of your company?

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Permanent Change Coaching.

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I like that. Yeah, because there are so many different things out there, as you said, in

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different sources. And everybody believes what they see online, which is scary. Probably

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my favorite story about that is a friend of mine owns a restaurant locally. And another

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friend had come her and her husband came and had a great experience, love the restaurant.

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And then they had some friends coming from town. So they recommended the restaurant.

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Well, the people went on Google and saw bad Yelp review and believe the stranger on Yelp

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versus their friends. Yeah, experience it. I'm like, what have we come to? Yeah. Yeah,

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believing everything that shows up online. So I love your philosophies. And it's a permanent

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change. And it's and you starting your business like why not today and jumping all in and

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I am definitely an all in kind of girl also. And I've had to train myself to like, Okay,

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what can you do today? Yeah, little things and not having to do in with like exercise

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and working out years ago, I was the all in girl that I would go and like, all right,

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today, January 1, I'm getting healthy. I go to the gym and lift so many weights and do

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so much exercise. I couldn't move for a week. Yeah. Finally, when I started my fitness journey,

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it was like, Okay, what can I do today and commit once a week? And I started taking water

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aerobics of all things. And it's like, I love that. And then it was twice a week. And by

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June, it was several times a week. And by October, I was teaching. That's awesome. All right,

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I can do this. So but yeah, take that courage to get out of bed and just do the things and

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to take care of ourselves. Yeah, I know, you know, we're talking about courage and starting

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your business. But let's talk about some of the courageous things that you teach as part

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of your coaching that may be a little different. Or this permanent change.

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Okay, yeah, well, I would say that doing anything differently than the way you've done it before

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takes courage, because it's scary to try a different approach, right. And it's a delicate

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balance with the like, we work with a lot of women that are that all in type of person,

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and they've been all or nothing with their fitness journey, basically their whole life,

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where it's like, I'm either going to the gym six days a week, for an hour, two hours, and

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dedicating everything, I have to drop everything to prioritize my fitness. And again, the best

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shape of my life, and then it lasts for like two weeks. And then it's gone, because then it's then

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it's back to nothing, right. And so I would say what takes courage is challenging those beliefs.

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And that's where it starts is if you want sustainable change, and you want permanent

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change in your health and your fitness journey. And ideally, right, the end goal for all of these

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women is not just okay, I want to lose a certain number of pounds, but it's I want the lifestyle

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to be something that's just, it's just a part of my life, rather than something that I'm on and

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I'm off because that that roller coaster is exhausting. And where that really starts is

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just with your beliefs and learning what they are finding awareness around them. What do I believe

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about exercise? What do I believe about nutrition? And kind of just questioning, like, is that

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actually true? Like, I the belief I need to work out five days a week for an hour to see results?

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Is that actually true? Or is that just what your experience was the last time that you got in shape?

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And the problem with that is people don't know what they don't know. So what we do is we provide

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the got the guidance and the education and the knowledge to help our clients learn that, no,

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actually, you can work out four days a week for 2025 minutes at a time, and see great results,

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as long as our nutrition is dialed in to. But, you know, we have this such this all or nothing

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thinking that the belief holds us back from doing anything less than five days a week for an hour,

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or whatever the belief is. And we don't do anything at all. And then we're not getting anywhere.

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So we have to start with just kind of a, honestly, just self awareness, which takes courage,

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because it's uncomfortable to really look at yourself, honestly, in the mirror like that.

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So I would say that's that's where the courage starts. Yeah. And the self awareness piece is so

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important. And self coaching to say, is this going to work for me, or not. And, again, that all or

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nothing, you know, all these diets, and I know things have worked for a lot of people, but all

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this all or nothing kind of thing, like you can't have this, you can't have that. As soon as you tell

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me I can't have something, I'm flexibility girl, I mean, like be told to do for me, like, you tell

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me I can't have something, then it's like, okay, give it to me. I crave it, you see it, you want it.

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Well, that's why we own our own businesses, right? Because we don't want to be told what to do by

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anyone. Exactly. Yeah, I came upon that years ago, when I realized, you know, I need that

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flexibility. My each day is different, because, you know, and I need health and fitness to be

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flexible with my life. Like, I can't be a member of a gym when I'm gone 200 days out of the year,

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you know, and be able to make it work for your life. And the way, you know, you're thinking so.

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So, I kind of talked about a lot of the questions I go over.

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So how'd you feel after starting your business? Right, Joyce? Ever regret it? I mean, definitely

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don't regret it. Like I said, it was just kind of ironic how it ended up like the intention of

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starting it was let me avoid people. And then it ended up being like, I get to meet so many awesome

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people, like, like how we just randomly connected, like you followed me through a client, I was like,

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hey, you know, gentlemen, this is really cool. And now here we are, like, I just love this stuff. But

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it's just ironic knowing what the intention was. Back in 2016. I was like, let me just

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hide behind my computer. But yeah, I mean, how do we win? Or I know, right with my Mary Kay business,

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when I first got out of college, my mom's friends and sell it Mary Kay, I said, don't ever talk to

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me. I'm never going to buy it. I'm never going to sell it. 28 years ago. We are. Yeah. How do I feel

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after I said, why not today? You know, I have, I don't think I have a poor memory. But I think

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that I was just so and something that I believe is a strength of mine and can also be a weakness,

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if taken too far, is that I'm very, very action driven. And so I'll take a lot of messy action

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and not really think twice about it. And I almost think that that ignorance at the time was my

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superpower because I was an 18 year old. I had no reason to believe that anyone would take me seriously.

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Right. And I went ahead and just like, didn't think about it. I just was like, all right, here it is.

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I remember feeling very excited. But I don't really remember second guessing. And I think it was just

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pure like ignorance is bliss. Like, if we're being completely honest. And that's a good thing. It's

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just like, take the idea and run with it. I'm not I'm like you. It's just like, very rarely do I take

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a long time and like, you know what, I'm just going to do it. And that's how this podcast all started.

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It's like, okay, I'm going to do it. And this is the date and I had no idea what it was going to look

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like. And it's taken me a while to get it going. I mentioned the website, and I started this in

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March and every day on my to do list was work on a website, work on a website. And finally,

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beginning of December, I'm like, you know what, I need to get this done before year end and finish

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it and have it finished. So one of those things is just like learning it every day you go. And I

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think that's with any business endeavor that it's just starting. And that's the hardest thing.

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Yeah, figured out. And like finding like just putting those deadlines on the calendar,

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like I don't think I necessarily had a deadline when I started my business. I think I

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probably put the website up start to finish in a matter of 24 hours, probably because I was just

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like, all right, we're doing this today. But when it comes to those projects, like I remember when

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I started my podcast with one of my best friends, who's also a fitness coach, she owns her own

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business, similar to mine. And we wanted to start a barbell lifestyle podcast. Yeah. So we started

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in December of 2020. And I remember like bringing it up to her probably only a few weeks prior to

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when we actually started it. And then we just set a really aggressive timeline for when we were going

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to start it. And like, when you do that, it just happens, right? It forces you to do the things on

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time, rather than being like, well, you know, I'll start tomorrow or whatever. One of my favorite

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quotes, things start happening too. Yeah. One of my favorite quotes from Alex Hermosy, who's someone

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I love to follow, who's just like an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, that that sort of person

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is one of the ways to never be successful, never make any money, never enjoy your life, is to start

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tomorrow. And if you start tomorrow, then like you will just, you will ruin whatever business that

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you have started. Yeah. And that's why, you know, the whole mantra of why not today, there was a

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restaurant in Reston years ago and they had a sign in there. I'll never forget it. It's free beer

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tomorrow. Yeah. Never going to happen. Yeah. Yeah. Just got to do it. And I think once you get an

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idea and put into motion, you have the passion behind it, you're excited, then things do start

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happening and fall, falling into place. I had a mentor one time, she said, things don't fall in

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your lap unless your lap is out there. And so when you're out doing things, then, you know, you're

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already out in front of people. And it just, I love that. So, and I have a question for you.

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You started as an entrepreneur super young, 18 and very young. But you know, it's interesting,

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I was talking to somebody the other day about the kids these days and they're starting businesses,

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you know, entrepreneurs, super young, but were your parents entrepreneurs or they worked for

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somebody? My mom was not. My mom was immigrated from Korea when she was 13 years old. And so she

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has always kind of, she's been in like the government contracting world. So, I mean,

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very typical for the Northern Virginia area. And my dad, I would say I picked this up from him,

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which is also why I love the inspiration for your podcast, because it's such a deep connection to

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your dad. And I actually also have a tattoo in remembrance and in my dad's not dead, but he

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inspired this phrase, which is D I W E do it with enthusiasm. And I was going through a really hard

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time last summer. And I was asking him for some advice just about life and certain decisions that

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I had to make. And basically his advice was something that his dad said. And he said,

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whatever you do, do it with enthusiasm, love it because it's your choice. Right. And if you're

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going to choose to do it, then do it with enthusiasm. And so I got that tattooed over

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the summer last year. And I'm sure that when he passes, I will probably add on to the artwork

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around this, but he was, or he is still, he will never stop working. He is an engineer, software,

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hardware. He never finished college though, but he's probably taken enough college credits to

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probably have like three or four degrees. He just never finished it. And because he doesn't have any

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letters behind his name, he always kind of had to be an entrepreneur in a way he's started multiple

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businesses. He's won government contracts for certain projects with a bunch of different like,

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like international security projects, NASA, the FBI, CIA, all these different things that he's been

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able to do without like the typical credentials that an engineer would need. And he actually is

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on an entrepreneurial journey right now. I'll give him a shameless plug here. He has a business

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called Call Genie and I'm super proud of it. It's awesome. So it's, it's basically a way like,

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you know how with like Skype or like Amazon, they have that new feature where you can like pull up a

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video call on your TV. So it's basically that, but it allows families to pop in on their elderly

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family members without needing the elderly family members permission. So it's basically like a way

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to check on, you know, grandma, grandpa. Is that, is that the thing, like an Amazon thing?

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But it, or a lot. So it's completely separate. Okay. It's completely separate, but I'm just giving

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the analogy of like, if you have a video call on your TV, yeah. But it just, without the permission

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of the, the, the person on the other end saying like, oh yeah, accept the call. Cause they might

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not be able to, they might not be cognitively there enough to do that. Yeah. And so he's,

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he's working on that and working on scaling that and putting in software and technical

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technology to where there's motion sensors to detect like, oh, if they fall, you turn on the call

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right away, get in touch with the family so they can call 911 or like if there's, you know, not

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enough movement, like tuning in, seeing like, Hey, are they, are they sleeping? Like what's going on?

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And just putting in those safety metrics as well. So he's on that journey right now. I think he

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started that maybe about a year ago. So I wanted to give him that plug cause it's super dope.

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Well, you know what, another, and I always like to connect and help people with ideas is another

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market he might be able to tap into is my youngest sister has Down syndrome. And so in that world,

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I'm on the board of directors of a group home in the area. And that might be good. I don't know

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about privacy stuff, but a good thing for people with disabilities living on their own too.

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Absolutely. Yeah. I think that would be a great market. I can definitely put you in contact.

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And the reason I asked if your parents were entrepreneurs, one thing I've discovered is

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more often than not, if you have an entrepreneur track, you were raised by somebody with an

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entrepreneur. Like my dad owned his own business and I watched him, you know, he was there for all

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of our soccer games and all of our activities. And yet at night, after dinner, he went into his

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office and worked, you know, he'd worked a lot, but he still was there for the things that are

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important. That's exactly, that was exactly my experience. Like I didn't, the, the, the,

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like I didn't, the, the crazy thing is, is I never knew how many hours a week he worked because he

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was always present for me. But when I asked him in hindsight, cause now we can have these conversations

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cause I'm just old enough, mature enough to like understand all this stuff. Now he was probably

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clocking 80, 90 hours a week, just on a normal week. Like that was just his life. That's what he did.

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And I never had any idea. Yeah. Because that's the same as my dad. He was very present

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and he actually took when I was 16, my parents bought an RV and we traveled for five weeks

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across country and we would stop at a campsite and he'd go to the pay phone and work. And I didn't

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realize what he gave us as gifts that was able to do that. And I've been able to model that with my

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world and my life. I don't have kids, but I have seven nieces and nephews and I've been able to take

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them on vacations and not miss any school play or do any of those things and be there to help her.

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So yeah, owning your own business is definitely, if you got it in you, it's definitely the way to go.

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And so I encourage people through this podcast to do the things that's scary and just try it.

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You just never know. Yeah. Well, the thing about like this day and age too, is like,

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everything hinges. And like, I know this is why like you were also intrigued by like my,

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my personal brand, but everything hinges on personal branding. So how do you show up on

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social media? Who are you? Because it doesn't matter what you're selling, what your business is.

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Like people don't buy into the products they buy into you. So me as a personality is a lot of times

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the attracting feature for people to come to PCC. And so how I show up, how I present myself on

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social media, like that is your marketing, no matter if I was selling socks or coaching, right?

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And that's so important. It's interesting. You know, I listened to a podcast one time talking

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about personal brand and it's like, the reason you post a picture of your food and what you're

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doing is people get to know, like, and trust you. And my sister ran into Tucson, she's got a new job,

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one of my other sisters, and there's a couple of people she worked with and they're like, oh my

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gosh, I love Lovely. She's your sister. Like, I haven't seen her talk to these people in years.

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And then they love and adore me because they see me on social media and what I do.

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Yeah. So you just never know. All right. So we could talk forever and ever, but I always ask,

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what encouragement would you give somebody to say, why not today? I know we've kind of talked about

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it. Yeah. Yeah. What encouragement would I give somebody to say, why not today?

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I would say, why not today? And I would also beg you to ask yourself, why not me? Like a lot of

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times it's like, okay, why not today? Like putting the urgency behind it starting now rather than

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tomorrow. But another place where like self doubt kind of roots itself is like, well, I'm not capable

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of that. Like I'm not meant for those greater things, whether that's a fitness goal, a business

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goal, like anything we tend to just like think that we're special and something is so wrong with

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us that we can't achieve the thing that we want. But the reality of it is, is that like, I'm not

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special. You're not special. No one is so special that we can start our own businesses and someone

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else can't. Right. And so the question I would ask you to ask yourself is why not me? And really

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like dig into that question. Why not you? Like there is, there is nothing inherently wrong with

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you to the point where you can't get what you want out of life. It is all there for you. There are

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fricking five year olds making a million dollars by posting Twitch streaming on YouTube. It's

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incredibly frustrating. And my kids will not have technology until they need to go to sports

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premises and text me when to pick them up. Yeah. Because that, that whole thing is, it's just,

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I'm still, I think I'm a little bit mentally ahead of myself in terms of age when it comes to like

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my perceptions around technology. Cause I'm like AI, like screw that. I don't, I don't want anything

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to do with that. That's scary. My kids aren't touching TV. They're not touching an iPad until

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they're like 15, but that's beside the point. Yeah. Why not you really dig into that? You're not,

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you're not so special in the fact that you're broken or incapable or incompetent of achieving

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whatever it is you want. Usually the gap between where you are, where you want to be is just a

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matter of finding the right knowledge, guidance, support, education, or just taking some action.

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Everything is figure out. Yeah. I have a mentor that said that to me, why not me? And I remember

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exactly where I was in my car when she said it to me. And it's always that. The other thing I don't

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know, I have a diamond Bumblebee ring. I love that. But it's a Mary Kay prize and Mary Kay. So

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do you know the story behind the Bumblebee? No. Okay. According to law fund physics, a Bumblebee

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shouldn't fly. It weighs too much for its wings. Oh yeah. So as women, we're often told we can't

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do something, but we can do anything we put our mind to. And so Mary Kay gives us diamond Bumblebees

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as prizes as a reminder of that. So yeah, why not me? And just get started. Say why not they?

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Well, this has been fun. I love getting to know you and I can't wait to get to know you a little

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bit more. So tell us how people can get in touch with you and you will for sure follow up because

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you're so good. And then we'll share in the show notes information about your contact information.

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Yeah, absolutely. You know, I'll just, I'll just keep it simple. Like Instagram is the easiest

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place. I'm the most active there. Um, like I'm on a bunch of different platforms, but like the,

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the primary is just direct everything back to the Instagram profile. So that's just Marissa Roy

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fitness. So one R two S is, um, Marissa Roy fitness and yeah, just shoot me a DM or, you know,

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check out the page, follow for funny or insightful reels and content.

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Well, thank you. It's been fun to have you on and I love people and I love that. I didn't really

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know you until today. Um, thank you everybody for listening and you can find the why not today

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podcast on iTunes and app and Google and Spotify, all the places. Um, I, my website is active now,

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check out the why not today podcast website. And when you go listen to the podcast, let me know

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you're listening, follow us on Instagram, on Facebook, um, rate review, um, share the podcast

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and let us know you're listening. So thanks again for listening today and thank you Marissa for

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sharing your courage story. Thank you so much.