1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,000 Hello, my name is Leslie Cain and I am the host of the Why Not Today podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:11,320 This is a podcast to celebrate people who have been courageous and said, Why Not Today? 3 00:00:11,320 --> 00:00:16,640 I started the podcast in honor of my father, Patrick Cain, who often did say, Why Not Today? 4 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:20,720 I am based in rest of Virginia playing community right outside of Washington, D.C., and thanks 5 00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:21,720 for joining us. 6 00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,720 And I'm excited for my guest today because I don't really know her very well. 7 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:31,400 It's a no-you-Charlene and I've got Charlene Willis from Charlene Willis, LLC. 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,600 And I would like to talk about before we introduce the guest. 9 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:35,120 I've got a friend back there. 10 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:38,560 Before I introduce my guest, just share it, like how we connected. 11 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:43,600 So it's a place I connected with you and as I said, I don't know you very well as a 12 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,680 chamber, which I don't know if you realize this, but my dad actually started the chamber. 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,240 Oh, no, I didn't know that. 14 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:53,000 Yeah, he was one of the founding people for the chamber. 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:54,800 I don't know if you know this either, but Alicia Little. 16 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:55,800 Yeah, of course. 17 00:00:55,800 --> 00:00:56,800 Do you know that? 18 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:57,800 Really? 19 00:00:57,800 --> 00:00:58,800 Oh, no, I didn't know that at all. 20 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:00,800 And you know, I'm the former chair of the chamber. 21 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:05,400 Yeah, so I know that and seeing you through different chamber events and things, but you 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:06,800 know, kind of funny how they connected. 23 00:01:06,800 --> 00:01:10,800 Yeah, I was meeting with somebody one day and I said, My dad started the chamber. 24 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:12,800 They're like, Alicia's dad started the chamber. 25 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:13,800 They know each other. 26 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:15,800 I'm like, It's a matter of fact they do. 27 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:16,800 Small little world. 28 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,400 So I'm excited to hear your story. 29 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,800 I heard you speak at a chamber event last year. 30 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,800 That's your last summer fall. 31 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:27,800 I just remember it was hotter than heck and it was hot. 32 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:28,800 Yeah. 33 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:30,800 Almost a year later, we're able to finally connect. 34 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,800 So I'm excited for you to share. 35 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,800 So why don't you introduce yourself a little fun fact and then we'll talk about courage 36 00:01:36,800 --> 00:01:38,800 and all your courageous things. 37 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:39,800 Sure. 38 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:40,800 Sure. 39 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:41,800 So hi everybody. 40 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:43,800 And Leslie, thank you so much for having me on today. 41 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,800 It's great to be able to have a conversation and get to know one another live. 42 00:01:47,800 --> 00:01:49,800 And to your guests, I'm a Charlene Willis. 43 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:57,800 I'm the principal CEO of my own company, Charlene Willis LLC, where I am a leadership coach 44 00:01:57,800 --> 00:01:59,800 and primarily a keynote speaker. 45 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:06,800 So the speaker comes first and then usually from that I coach in leadership and life. 46 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:13,800 And I guess my fun fact is that I like to consider myself a recovering C-suite executive. 47 00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:18,800 So rather than deep in it, you know, I just, I stepped out of it and was, 48 00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:22,800 which was probably a very courageous decision to make. 49 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,800 So, but it's great to be here with you Leslie. 50 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:25,800 Yeah. 51 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:27,800 I'm excited to have you and hear your story. 52 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:32,800 And I think, actually, I think the first time I met you, I can remember it was roundtables. 53 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,800 It was some event years ago when you were working in corporate. 54 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:36,800 Yeah. 55 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:39,800 It was some event that we sat next to each other. 56 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,800 And yeah, and that's when you were working for, I don't remember who it was, but. 57 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:43,800 Right. 58 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:47,800 It was probably Bechtel or Raytheon or Dan Karp for one of those companies. 59 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:49,800 But it made good to escape. 60 00:02:49,800 --> 00:02:51,800 It is. 61 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,800 Sometimes you just have to pivot as I said. 62 00:02:54,800 --> 00:03:01,800 And that's what we talked about a lot here is the courage to just leave those comfortable positions and do something different. 63 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,800 Share with us what your definition of courage is. 64 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:13,800 Courage to me is taking a step in spite of your fear. 65 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:14,800 Right. 66 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:20,800 And I happen to think that fear is a huge motivator to do absolutely nothing. 67 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:30,800 And having the courage to say, yes, I'm afraid and no, maybe I'm scared to death, but I know I need to do something different. 68 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:34,800 And I'm going to take the sats, the courage to do it. 69 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:40,800 And I have something Leslie, I can't remember if I talked about it when we last saw one another called seven seconds of courage. 70 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:51,800 And I believe that with seven seconds of courage, you can do anything that can start to transform your life, your career, your work, your relationships. 71 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:53,800 It just takes seven seconds of courage. 72 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:54,800 Yeah. 73 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:55,800 And I've heard that before. 74 00:03:55,800 --> 00:03:59,800 I don't know if you or other people, you don't know if you filed Mel Robbins at all. 75 00:03:59,800 --> 00:04:00,800 Right. 76 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:01,800 She does. 77 00:04:01,800 --> 00:04:02,800 I think she has a five seconds. 78 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:03,800 Right. 79 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:04,800 Yeah, five, four, three, two, one. 80 00:04:04,800 --> 00:04:09,800 But you don't go forward because you could go six, seven, eight, but you go five, four, three, two, one and just do the things. 81 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,800 And, you know, when you talk about courage and fear, it's people think it's a huge thing. 82 00:04:14,800 --> 00:04:16,800 Like you left a sweet job. 83 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:22,800 I left for America, but it's often those little things we do that leads up, lead up to all those big things. 84 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:23,800 Absolutely. 85 00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:34,800 You know, and I think a lot of times we put ourselves in situations where we are subjugated to other people or other things because we don't have courage. 86 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:48,800 You know, and I tell people, particularly I have two daughters, one's 27 and one's 29, you know, and I've taught them from the time they were growing up to remember that every day you are teaching people how to treat you. 87 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:52,800 And I think to live that out takes courage. 88 00:04:52,800 --> 00:04:53,800 Right. 89 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:54,800 And I would start with them. 90 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:56,800 One of my daughters, her name is easy. 91 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:57,800 It's Savannah. 92 00:04:57,800 --> 00:04:59,800 The other, her daughter is my other daughter. 93 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:01,800 Her name is French and it's a genie. 94 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,800 And so she gets all kinds as you can imagine of pronunciation. 95 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:12,800 And one of the first things I taught her is that, you know, when someone mispronounces your name, don't say, oh, it's okay. 96 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:14,800 Everybody mispronounces it. 97 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:16,800 Correct them because that is you. 98 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:17,800 That's your identity. 99 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,800 That's your ownership. 100 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:26,800 And the minute you let people be okay with or think you're okay with them not acknowledging and seeing you. 101 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:27,800 Right. 102 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:31,800 Then you've already, you know, started off on a back foot. 103 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:35,800 And I think have the courage, you know, to correct, right. 104 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:44,800 Do it kindly, do it gently, do it with compassion, but understand that courage starts with teaching people how to treat you. 105 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,800 No, absolutely. 106 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:48,800 So I love your story. 107 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:49,800 You shared it, the story slams. 108 00:05:49,800 --> 00:05:50,800 I don't know. 109 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:51,800 I know you do. 110 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:54,800 So let's talk about the courageous things you've done in your life. 111 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,800 I don't know if you want to go back to beginning to that. 112 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:08,800 And it goes back to the little girl and that, you know, and I work, my real job is I'm a, or the one that pays me is I'm a self-directed Mary Kay. 113 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:13,800 And I really work with courage and confidence around young girls and start them young. 114 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:18,800 They say a girl's self-esteem or women's self-esteem is highest at age 10. 115 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,800 I would believe that. 116 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,800 And they're like, it's probably even younger than that now. 117 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:25,800 Right. 118 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:26,800 And it goes down from there. 119 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:27,800 Right. 120 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:31,800 We learned very, very early on what's wrong with us as opposed to what's right with us. 121 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:32,800 Right. 122 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:37,800 And it's based on what other people tell us and other things that we are just, you know, we are just bombarded with. 123 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:49,800 And, you know, I think for me, it's, and I talked about this in the story slam that, you know, the first defining moment for me that I can remember is literally when I was 12 years old. 124 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:54,800 And I had tried out for cheerleader in junior high school. 125 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:55,800 And I was so excited. 126 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:06,800 And I was, you know, and I thought this was it, you know, like so many people, you know, of, of our generation, you know, I didn't come from much and there wasn't much expected of me. 127 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,800 So when I decided to try out for cheerleader, I thought this is it. 128 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:11,800 This is how I'm going to be seen. 129 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:13,800 It's going to be fantastic. 130 00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:14,800 And I tried out. 131 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:15,800 I did a great job. 132 00:07:15,800 --> 00:07:17,800 And I didn't make the team. 133 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:19,800 I made it as the fourth alternate. 134 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,800 And I thought, well, gosh, I thought I was pretty good. 135 00:07:23,800 --> 00:07:33,800 I mean, even in my, you know, 12 year old mind and the sponsor, they weren't coaches then the sponsor later put me on the team. 136 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:37,800 And in a way that it didn't make sense because I not only did I not make the team. 137 00:07:37,800 --> 00:07:44,800 I made it as a fourth alternate, right, which is like akin to everybody gets a trophy and you'll never get on that. 138 00:07:44,800 --> 00:07:54,800 And the, the sponsor put me on the team, you know, and then all of my innocence, I asked her why she moved me ahead of the other alternates and put me on the team. 139 00:07:54,800 --> 00:08:01,800 And she said very pointedly, you know, she said, Charlene, well, you know, you're black and I thought you'd be a troublemaker. 140 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:02,800 So I didn't want you on the team. 141 00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:09,800 And now that I've seen you in class because she was my room teacher, my math teacher says now I've seen you in class. 142 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:10,800 You're a nice little girl. 143 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:30,800 And for whatever reason, Leslie, and I don't even know where the strength came from, you know, I realized then that if I wasn't courageous, and if I wasn't brave and I if I wasn't, if I didn't direct how people thought about me or who I was, 144 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:39,800 then I was always my whole life going to be victim to who they thought I should be, you know, and, you know, and I'm not going to be a teacher. 145 00:08:39,800 --> 00:08:54,800 You know, and I that played itself out, you know, at that time when I was 12, I, you know, I said to myself, well, I'm not going to give up my spot on the cheerleading team, but I'm going to prove to her that I'm so much more than what she thinks I am. 146 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,800 Right, because she she made me feel ashamed for being who I was. 147 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:19,800 And so somewhere inside me, I developed the courage to say I'm going to prove you wrong, you know, and, and that served me well but I will say that, you know, even too much of a good thing can be a bad thing, because that also set me on a path for the next 40 years of proving people wrong. 148 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:29,800 Right, and always just being in that spot. And it wasn't until I was 53. 149 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:43,800 I was diagnosed with cancer twice in, in six months. And so I was first diagnosed with uterine cancer. I had surgery at that taking care of six months later is diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer. 150 00:09:43,800 --> 00:09:56,800 And that was not a six month journey that turned out to be a five year journey. And in that process, I realized that there were lots of opportunities to be courageous about my health. 151 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:11,800 And in the end, I realized that I had a huge opportunity to be courageous about me and who I am, and who I wanted to be and how I wanted to show up in the world, versus how I had been showing up in the world. 152 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:24,800 And so I had, I had been quite successful, I'd achieved more than most women, let alone black women had in my industry, which was at the time communications and crisis communications. 153 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:36,800 And, but what I realized is I spent all those years perfecting a persona of what people said I needed to be in order to be successful. 154 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:41,800 And, and they were right because I was successful. 155 00:10:41,800 --> 00:10:49,800 Right. But then, and I realized that the, literally at the top of my career Leslie, I mean, I was killing it. 156 00:10:49,800 --> 00:11:00,800 And then I had to realize that actually showing up as someone else every day for decades was killing me. Yeah. And that's where my cancer came from. 157 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:12,800 And through that process, you know, you'll never hear me say cancer was a gift, because I wouldn't wish that gift on anybody, but through that process, and it went on so long. 158 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:23,800 Who I had worked so hard to become was stripped away. And I had to have the courage to figure out who I really was. 159 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:41,800 Because I just created a facade, a beautiful facade for 40 years. But now what, and that was probably one of the, not probably that was the second most courageous point in my life, without a doubt, because I was stuck in between two worlds, 160 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,800 neither of which I understood. 161 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:49,800 Right. I couldn't go back to who I was, because that person didn't exist anymore. 162 00:11:49,800 --> 00:12:11,800 And I had no idea who I was becoming. And it was just, it was awful, actually, it was really, really awful. And it was scary. And there was a point where I thought that it would be easier to not be alive than to be going through what I was going through. 163 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:12,800 Right. 164 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,800 So I dug deep for courage. 165 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:21,800 I think that's really, surely, what I want this podcast to speak to is to give people the courage to be who they want to be. 166 00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:32,800 I interviewed somebody the other day and we talked about the little girl thing. And I said, you know, we started as a little girl, and then we start putting these coats on and these facades and these, I should be in, I've got to change. 167 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:37,800 And, you know, those are achievement oriented, like, I'm going to prove you and I'm going to do this. 168 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:53,800 And I'm just smiling it on. And then you wake up one day and whether it's, I think I found a lot of pivot points for women, 50. That is like, all right, what's next? And I've seen a lot of people redeveloping and recreating themselves, but then start throwing those things off. 169 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:55,800 Absolutely. 170 00:12:55,800 --> 00:13:11,800 And I think that was it. It was, you know, there are many more horrible things about that time period. 171 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:30,800 But a few good things to really come out of it is I think that it made us all step away from the proverbial hamster wheel that we were on and to really stop and say, who am I? What do I want? 172 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:50,800 And what do I want the rest of my life to look like? Right? Not just my career, but what do I want the rest of my life to look like? And then do I have the courage to make the decisions to make that happen? 173 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:52,800 Right. We have to live our life. 174 00:13:52,800 --> 00:14:03,800 And one thing I'm passionate about is, you know, enjoying life, you know, you can still be successful and achieve what you want and make a difference in people's lives, but enjoy your life while you're doing it. 175 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:21,800 Right. Right. And I think for me, the definition of enjoying your life changed, you know, people would always say, you know, while you never want to be that person, you know, or they'd say, you know, when you're taking your last breath, you're not going to say, gee, I wish I had finished that project. 176 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:26,800 And whenever I heard people say that, I was like, oh, no, no, that would be me. 177 00:14:26,800 --> 00:14:33,800 I wanted to say, I wish I had finished that last project or I wish I had achieved XYZ because I was an achievement junkie. 178 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:39,800 Right. That's where my identity came from. That's where my work came from. That's where it all came from. 179 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:52,800 So it wasn't just saying, okay, you know, what do I want the rest of my life to look like? It was, do I want it to be this? Right? 180 00:14:52,800 --> 00:15:01,800 Because you first have to answer that question before you can answer the question of, well, what do I want it to look like if I want it to be different? 181 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:16,800 And so for me, it was a complete, you know, transformation. As I tell people, you know, often now that if you had told me five years ago that I'd be living the life I am today, I would have said you were crazy. 182 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:29,800 I said, there's no possible way. You know, I don't desire to be a keynote speaker. I definitely don't desire to be a coach because I'd always seen coaching and companies as being punitive and I didn't want any part of that. 183 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:47,800 Right. I certainly didn't think that I'd ever write a book. But I realized once I realized I had a voice, I found my voice, and then I decided to start using my voice, you know, and really, you know, what were the best ways to do that. 184 00:15:47,800 --> 00:15:58,800 And I decided going to a corporate office with my, you know, invisible armor on every day was not the best way for me to do that. 185 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,800 And you've got such an amazing story to be able to share that and give people courage. 186 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:18,800 And encourage other people to, you know, do that because I mean, I left corporate America 24 years ago, but I was not a C-suite at that point. But, you know, it was still scary, you know, and so, you know, the security, everybody asked me, like, what are you going to do when you quit your job? 187 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:21,800 The big question everybody has is what are you going to do about insurance? 188 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:32,800 I'm going to pay for it. Like, money to pay for it and you're paying for it with blood, sweat and tears. No vacation. 189 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:45,800 Right. Well, and you're kind of hastening your need for it because, you know, since things like, of course, you, you know, you look at the contributors, right? You look at your genetic, your genetic contributors, which I had none. 190 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:53,800 And then the next thing you look at is stress and you look at things like you start watching your cortisol levels and, you know, my stress was off the charts. 191 00:16:53,800 --> 00:17:07,800 I was, you know, I was traveling all over the world, which I loved, or at least I thought I loved it. You know, I was doing all kinds of important things, which to me made me an important person, right, which was also really misaligned. 192 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:24,800 And, you know, you just get so caught up, so caught up in it. And then I realized that, wow, yeah, I'm really glad I have this great health care. But maybe if I changed my life, I wouldn't need so much. 193 00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:46,800 I mean, I've had that thought, but it's definitely a pivotal thought because knock on one, I'm healthy. Like, right? Rarely, rarely do I go to the doctor. But I created a lifestyle that, you know, yes, they're stressed, but it's not crazy stress and I'm not playing the game that we played in corporate America. 194 00:17:46,800 --> 00:18:05,800 Yeah, I was, you know, I was telling my husband and I think if you're a woman and especially if you're a minority woman, just the amount of hypervigilance that's required to not just walk in the world, but walk in the corporate world is, is really extreme. 195 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:22,800 And we get so used to it that we don't even realize the stress we're carrying before we even go into the office to deal with the stress that's brought on from there. You know, and I was telling my husband a couple of months ago, because it's been in 2020 was when I left the corporate world. 196 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:40,800 You know, and I told him, I said, you know, I realized something today. And he's like, what, you know, you know, and half listening to me, I'm sure. And I said, you know, for three years, I have not once walked into a room and felt like I needed to prove my worth to anyone. 197 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:41,800 Wow. 198 00:18:41,800 --> 00:19:00,800 I haven't done that for three years. I said, I haven't done that in 50 years. Wow. And to be able to have just sat back and realized that, you know, to the, you know, to the point of my block that's called you are enough, you know, to just realize, I am enough. 199 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:22,800 I have to walk into this room and prove to you that I am anything other than who I am. You know, and I don't, I don't think that people recognize how many of us walk around every day feeling like whatever door I walk through are going to be people on the other side, who are going to 200 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:46,800 prove my value. Yeah, you know, and if you think about it, how humiliating is that? Yeah, right. Yeah, it's like, why are we not just assumed to be value, you know, valued or valuable and, you know, I used to wonder when I was in corporate, you know, how much like you do I need to be before 201 00:19:46,800 --> 00:20:02,800 you Mr. Executive will see me first as human before you see me as a black woman or whatever trope you might put on me if I raise my voice, you know, it's like how much like you do I have to be in order to be seen as human. 202 00:20:02,800 --> 00:20:15,800 And I just got tired of that. And it wasn't even just that I got tired of it. It said it wore me down. Yeah, it made you sick. Yeah, it wore me down. And so you know, one of my mantras and I use this in my keynote 203 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:33,800 speeches as well is its choice not chance that changes your life. Right. So choose before chance takes over. I love that. Right, because everything we want in life, everything we want to do is on the other side of fear. 204 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:57,800 And on that other side of fear is choice. I'll start with choice to me. And so, you know, so everybody I talk to, you know, make that choice today, just do it. Right, right. And you know, everybody always says, you know, tomorrow is not guaranteed to you and you know, we have all these types of, you know, little sayings and, you know, and you know why they exist, because they're true. 205 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:06,800 Yeah, that's why. Right. So when it's like, you know, oh, I'll do this tomorrow. I always say to myself today is tomorrow. 206 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:23,800 So true. Right. So to your point with your podcast, why not today? Yeah. Right. What am I putting this off for? And I think so many people because of fear and not having the courage and what other people think we don't do the things we want to do. 207 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:34,800 And so that's why I'm so passionate about this message and really giving people courage to do the big things, but to do the little things and to put us first. And we are worthy. We are enough. 208 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:41,800 Right. And, you know, do the things that give us joy and keep us healthy and right. 209 00:21:41,800 --> 00:22:00,800 Yeah. You know, and I would say to Leslie, discover the things that bring you joy, because I've had three out of five people. If you ask them what brings you joy, they probably don't know. Right. They're going to say, oh, friends and family, you know, but you know what, we all have friends that really don't bring us joy. 210 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:15,800 We have family members that don't bring us joy either. Right. So once you get past the pat answers, you know, what really does bring you joy? You know, for me, it's playing with my obnoxious dogs. 211 00:22:15,800 --> 00:22:32,800 I've discovered that for me, it's taking a walk without headphones, without talking to someone on the phone, just walking and just paying attention to what's going on around me, the squirrel who's working furiously to try to get this piece of food up a tree. 212 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:42,800 You know, the little things. And when you can focus in on that and really identify those things, I think it's just beautiful. 213 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:51,800 And it's when I was in corporate, if someone said those things to me, I was like, oh my gosh, are you going to start meditating next? 214 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:52,800 Exactly. 215 00:22:52,800 --> 00:23:02,800 You know, but there really is true, there really is truth to those things. And it doesn't mean that you get rid of your edge or, you know, it just means that you appreciate what's around you. 216 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:07,800 So true. Yeah, I was listening to something the other day and they said, you know, pay attention to those little things. 217 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:22,800 And I try, you know, when I walk around Lake Anilot and right pictures to say, OK, I want to remember this moment and look at the little flowers and collect feathers and whatever I see a picture, a feather, I click a picture and just write it. 218 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:23,800 It's in the tea. 219 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:26,800 Yeah. And just, yeah, smell the roses, as they say. 220 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:35,800 Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, sometimes it's still so hard to get caught up in everything because these days there's a lot to get caught up in. 221 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,800 You know, but at the end of the day, the only person who can assure your happiness is you. 222 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:41,800 Yeah. 223 00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:51,800 And I think it's important, important to remember that, you know, I tell people often, I said, you know, you're waiting for the Calvary to come save you, but the Calvary is already here and it's you. 224 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:52,800 Yeah. 225 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,800 Right. So let's get on with it. 226 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:58,800 Yeah, don't wait for the white horse and the person coming to save you. 227 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,800 Right. Because it's you. Recognize that it's you. 228 00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:02,800 Yeah. 229 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:18,800 And it's so beautiful when you see people reach that point that they can do that, that they can put their fear aside and they, you know, and they, they can say, I do have the power to make a choice. 230 00:24:18,800 --> 00:24:23,800 I do have the power to say, why wait until tomorrow? Why not today? 231 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:24,800 Right. 232 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:34,800 You know, and I love saying that when I give keynotes and I see the light go off in people's minds and they're like, wow, I just never thought about that. I have the power. 233 00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:35,800 Right. 234 00:24:35,800 --> 00:24:38,800 You know, beliefs that we've been told for so many years. 235 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:39,800 Yeah. 236 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:47,800 It's allowed to enjoy and we're allowed to enjoy our life and be around the people we care about and do the things we want to do. 237 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:53,800 Right. Right. You know, and we're, you know, if I were to add to that, you know, we're allowed to be good people. 238 00:24:53,800 --> 00:25:02,800 You know, one of the things I do, I talk a lot about in my leadership practice is that, you know, with leaders, you know, they're wearing armor too. 239 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:03,800 Right. 240 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:06,800 And it's like, you can take that armor off. 241 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:11,800 You know, you can be human, you know, you are allowed to be fallible. 242 00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:19,800 You know, and that's, I think, what people want today today is I think they want authenticity. I think they want humanity. 243 00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:24,800 They want compassion in their leaders and in the people who are in their lives. 244 00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:30,800 And the more I see people embrace that, the happier I see people become. 245 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:31,800 Yeah. 246 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:32,800 So true. 247 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:34,800 So you mentioned your book. 248 00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:41,800 So tell us, you know what, I think I had in my Amazon card to order and then I realized, you know what, it never showed up. 249 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:42,800 I never probably clicked the button. 250 00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:44,800 Leslie, go back and click that button. 251 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:50,800 I'm going to Florida in a couple of days. I'm going to bring it with me. 252 00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:51,800 Great. 253 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,800 So tell us about your book and what motivates you to do that. 254 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:59,800 I know you can tell me with this message, I'm a book and that is the last thing in the world I want to do at this point. 255 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:00,800 But yeah. 256 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:02,800 And that's true. 257 00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:05,800 And I'll tell you, I did not aspire to be an author. 258 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:10,800 That was not, I was not one of those people who always said, Oh, when I take some time off, I'm going to write a book. 259 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:12,800 That's what I really want to do. 260 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:14,800 It wasn't that at all. 261 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:18,800 It was, you know, I, as I mentioned, I got through this health crisis. 262 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:26,800 I decided that I needed to leave my, my high stress, high power, high everything, high octane job. 263 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:32,800 And, and when I had cancer, I was never someone who said, you know, I'm a woman of faith. 264 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,800 And I never said, you know, you know, why me God, why me? 265 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,800 I just always said, tell me what you want me to do with this. 266 00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:43,800 If you're going to bring me through, tell me what I'm supposed to do with it. 267 00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:58,800 And, and I woke up one day and I thought, I am supposed to write a book because I have the courage to tell the truth, to not sugarcoat what happens in the C sweet to not sugarcoat my journey. 268 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:05,800 And so I decided, well, okay, if I'm going to write a book, am I supposed to write a book about my cancer journey? 269 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:09,800 And I realized now I'm supposed to write a book about my life journey. 270 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:20,800 And so the title of my blog is, you are enough reclaiming your career and your life with purpose, passion and unapologetic authenticity. 271 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:25,800 And, and the book is really all about that. 272 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:32,800 It's about how, you know, what I face and how I reclaimed my life and my career unapologetically. 273 00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:35,800 And how others can do the same. 274 00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,800 So it's parts, it's, it's all nonfiction, of course, but it's part self help. 275 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,800 It's part how to, and it's also part how not to write, right? 276 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:56,800 So that you don't find yourself, you know, at 50 something years old, you know, either sick or standing at the top of the mountain and saying to yourself, is this all there is? 277 00:27:56,800 --> 00:28:01,800 I went through all that for this. 278 00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:14,800 I've interviewed somebody else on the podcast that talked about, you know, whatever we're trying to achieve, or, you know, we get there and it's like, it's not really what I wanted, or the adage of, you know, skip the beach trip so you can buy the beach house. 279 00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,800 Right. 280 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:19,800 You get to that point and you skip so many things. 281 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:20,800 Right, right. 282 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:23,800 How can we share this message to younger girls? 283 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,800 They have to look through it and wait till they're 50 to figure this out or hopefully they're figuring it out earlier. 284 00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:36,800 Well, and I can tell you if my late 20s girls are any indication, they figure it out a lot sooner. 285 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:37,800 Right. 286 00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:54,800 Of course, they're completely, you know, different generation, but even with my executive female clients, especially who are climbing the ladder, and they'll come to me because they'll know I've had the executive experience and they want to know what do I need to do to get there. 287 00:28:54,800 --> 00:29:06,800 And the first thing I ask them is, are you, are you climbing toward that next high level position because you want it, or because you think you should want it? 288 00:29:06,800 --> 00:29:10,800 I said, so think about it and they'll say, oh, I want it. 289 00:29:10,800 --> 00:29:11,800 And I said, that's great. 290 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,800 But I want you to take a couple of days and think about that question. 291 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:21,800 And when you come back and say they don't really want it, you'd be you. 292 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,800 Well, maybe you wouldn't be surprised, but I would say it's higher than 50-50. 293 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:26,800 Oh, yeah. 294 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:29,800 But they'll come back and they'll say, you know what? 295 00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:31,800 I'm happy where I am. 296 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:37,800 You know, and, you know, and I'll ask them things like, well, you know, do you really need that bigger house? 297 00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,800 You know, do you need that bigger car that you want? 298 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:41,800 What would that look like? 299 00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:42,800 Are you going to buy a better car? 300 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:43,800 Are you going to spend more money? 301 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:50,800 And, you know, are you going to save things for a rainy day that isn't going to come because you're going to die from a heart attack at your desk? 302 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:54,800 Or, you know, just kind of what is it? 303 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,800 And I told them, I said, here's the secret. 304 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,800 Nobody tells you when you're an executive woman and you start making really big money. 305 00:30:01,800 --> 00:30:11,800 What changes in your life is that your family has better vacations than they used to because you're not there, right? 306 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:12,800 You're not there. 307 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:18,800 You're the one flying in on the third day of the vacation and flying out on the fifth day, right? 308 00:30:18,800 --> 00:30:21,800 And so it comes down to, you know, really quality. 309 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:23,800 What does quality mean to you? 310 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:43,800 And I'm always really pleasantly surprised, although I don't judge, but pleasantly surprised at the number of women who come back to me and say, you know, I really had to think about why I want to keep doing this and why the level that I'm at is not good enough for me, right? 311 00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:50,800 Or how can I make the level I am better without having to give up so much of myself? 312 00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,800 Yeah, you know, the old management principle, the Peter principle. 313 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:55,800 Oh, yeah. 314 00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:56,800 Yes. 315 00:30:56,800 --> 00:30:59,800 People get promoted to obsolescence because they don't know how to do the job. 316 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:01,800 They're happy this, but you got to give them the new title. 317 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:10,800 And my dad was a city planner and he was out, you know, being in northern Virginia, people kept moving further and further out to get the bigger house. 318 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:11,800 Right. 319 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,800 And then they're commuting hours. 320 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,800 They don't get to enjoy their beautiful house and their exhausted. 321 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:22,800 Like, why do we need all the bigger things, the more things that. 322 00:31:22,800 --> 00:31:23,800 Right, right. 323 00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,800 And you know, you know, creature comforts are nice. 324 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:27,800 I'm not saying that they aren't. 325 00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:36,800 But I tell you, so we live in Ashburn, Virginia, and we have since 1995 is when we, when we moved out here. 326 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:45,800 And we always said, well, we're going to get that even bigger house, we're just going to move closer in because we, you know, we have the, we'll have the money to do it. 327 00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:47,800 You know, and we never did. 328 00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:48,800 And that was fine. 329 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:55,800 And, you know, we were fortunate to have help with our kids and around the house because my husband and I both had very busy careers. 330 00:31:55,800 --> 00:32:00,800 When, when COVID hit and everything was shut down. 331 00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:05,800 I realized that, you know, we've been in this house now for almost 20 years. 332 00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:13,800 I realized that my, my nanny and my housekeeper had spent more time in my house than I had. 333 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,800 Oh, I'm sure they knew my house better than I did. 334 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:18,800 Right. 335 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,800 And that was kind of a sobering moment. 336 00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:28,800 You know, the day I hear this, this musical tone in my house and thinking, what is that? 337 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,800 You know, and my nanny says, it's the washing machine. 338 00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:37,800 I thought, I didn't know I'd made noise when it stopped. 339 00:32:37,800 --> 00:32:38,800 Never paid attention to it. 340 00:32:38,800 --> 00:32:39,800 Right. 341 00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:40,800 In your long house. 342 00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:41,800 Yeah. 343 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:47,800 You know, so it's, you know, I don't begrudge anybody who wants more, who wants bigger, who wants any of those things. 344 00:32:47,800 --> 00:32:52,800 I just want them to ask themselves why and how is it going to make their life better? 345 00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:53,800 Right. 346 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,800 You know, and if they have an answer that is satisfactory to them, who am I to judge? 347 00:32:57,800 --> 00:32:58,800 Right. 348 00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:01,800 Because happiness looks different on everybody. 349 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:07,800 I just want people to have those things by choice, not because they just fell into it. 350 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,800 Not by chance. 351 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,800 Right. 352 00:33:09,800 --> 00:33:10,800 Exactly. 353 00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:17,800 Obviously your life is different and better and happier and looks like you're enjoying it and hopefully healthier. 354 00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:20,800 So how would you encourage somebody else? 355 00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:28,800 And we've talked about a lot of different things, but first listening or watching this, how would you encourage them to take the step? 356 00:33:28,800 --> 00:33:31,800 Yeah, I would say, you know, a couple of things. 357 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:38,800 First and foremost, I tell everyone I talk to you to really recognize that you are enough. 358 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:39,800 Right. 359 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:41,800 That you are everything you need to be. 360 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:48,800 And all of those people, those voices that who are telling you that you're not enough, silence them, even if they're in your own head. 361 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,800 The second, and I mean this with every fiber of my being. 362 00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:58,800 You know, it is choice, not chance that changes everything. 363 00:33:58,800 --> 00:33:59,800 Yeah. 364 00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:00,800 Right. 365 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:01,800 And that can be a small choice. 366 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:04,800 It can be a huge choice, but it changes everything. 367 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:07,800 And it doesn't mean you have to change your life, your whole life. 368 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,800 You have to pivot and go in a new direction. 369 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,800 Start small, you know, and work your way up. 370 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:14,800 You know, what's not working? 371 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:18,800 You know, is there some way you want to show up differently? 372 00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,800 And then the other is, so once you realize those things, how do you do it? 373 00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:26,800 So, and that's where I get to my seven seconds of courage. 374 00:34:26,800 --> 00:34:39,800 And if you look at a kind of what some of the research and neuroscientists are, it will tell us is that that first six seconds are all fear when we think we want to do something. 375 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,800 That's when we're in our fight or flight mode. 376 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:52,800 And what you want to do is get to that seventh second because that's when one part of your brain, that fight or flight shuts down and possibility opens up. 377 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:56,800 And you just need to get to that seventh second. 378 00:34:56,800 --> 00:35:02,800 Just take that deep breath, get to that seventh second and take action. 379 00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:04,800 Whatever that is. 380 00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:05,800 That way. 381 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:06,800 I love that. 382 00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:07,800 You know, why not today? 383 00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:08,800 Exactly. 384 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,800 Why not today? 385 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,800 Yeah, I knew your message would be perfect for this. 386 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:15,800 So thank you. 387 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,800 So to find your book, to find you to contact you to connect with you, I'm going to share it in the show notes. 388 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:25,800 But what are you going to share as far as people where to get your book? 389 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:32,800 Well, certainly first thing I would say is please follow me on LinkedIn and sign up for for my newsletter. 390 00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:41,800 And on LinkedIn, you can just find me at charlene.wheelist and you'll know because it's my speaking website, LinkedIn site, and you'll see that. 391 00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,800 My website is www.charlenewheelist.com. 392 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:51,800 You can get my book there and some other goodies that are going up on my site soon. 393 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,800 And that are freebies that you can get and other things to purchase. 394 00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:06,800 And then of course, my book is available Barnes and Noble Amazon.com and all of your other places, popular places except the airport that you buy a book. 395 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:16,800 And it is, it's available in hard copy as well as as audio book and I am the the narrator in the audio book as well. 396 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:24,800 And the only thing if you buy the book during my through my website and send me a note, I'll actually send you a personalized autographed copy of it. 397 00:36:24,800 --> 00:36:33,800 Oh, okay. Yes, I don't know if I can get it by Saturday, but you're in rest and you could actually. 398 00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,800 And I heard Barnes and Noble open in rest. 399 00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:45,800 Yes, yes, yes, I know they have me on my book online and some have it in store some don't yet. I don't really understand how they figure that out. 400 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:50,800 But yes, we're in happy to do that. 401 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,800 Okay, yay. Well, thank you for being a guest and I really enjoy getting to know you and your story. 402 00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,800 And so you can find the Why Not Today Podcast at anyplacepodcasts.com. 403 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:04,800 We do have a website called whynottodaypodcast.com. 404 00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:06,800 And we have why not today swag. 405 00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:14,800 So if you want to encourage other people or you want to be encouraged daily, you've got stickers and t-shirts and cups and all kinds of looking at some other fun things. 406 00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:22,800 Feel free to share them. Anybody listening, share the podcast, rate it, comment and review it. 407 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,800 And thank you, Charlene. So much fun to know you. 408 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:26,800 Yes. 409 00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:32,800 Everybody listening. Thank you for listening or watching and don't forget they why not today. 410 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:36,800 Great. Thank you, Leslie. And thank you to your listeners and viewers. 411 00:37:36,800 --> 00:37:46,800 Thank you. Bye.