Hello, my name is Leslie Cain and I am the host of the Why Not Today podcast.
This is a podcast to celebrate people who have been courageous and said, Why Not Today?
I started the podcast in honor of my father, Patrick Cain, who often did say, Why Not Today?
I am based in rest of Virginia playing community right outside of Washington, D.C., and thanks
for joining us.
And I'm excited for my guest today because I don't really know her very well.
It's a no-you-Charlene and I've got Charlene Willis from Charlene Willis, LLC.
And I would like to talk about before we introduce the guest.
I've got a friend back there.
Before I introduce my guest, just share it, like how we connected.
So it's a place I connected with you and as I said, I don't know you very well as a
chamber, which I don't know if you realize this, but my dad actually started the chamber.
Oh, no, I didn't know that.
Yeah, he was one of the founding people for the chamber.
I don't know if you know this either, but Alicia Little.
Yeah, of course.
Do you know that?
Really?
Oh, no, I didn't know that at all.
And you know, I'm the former chair of the chamber.
Yeah, so I know that and seeing you through different chamber events and things, but you
know, kind of funny how they connected.
Yeah, I was meeting with somebody one day and I said, My dad started the chamber.
They're like, Alicia's dad started the chamber.
They know each other.
I'm like, It's a matter of fact they do.
Small little world.
So I'm excited to hear your story.
I heard you speak at a chamber event last year.
That's your last summer fall.
I just remember it was hotter than heck and it was hot.
Yeah.
Almost a year later, we're able to finally connect.
So I'm excited for you to share.
So why don't you introduce yourself a little fun fact and then we'll talk about courage
and all your courageous things.
Sure.
So hi everybody.
And Leslie, thank you so much for having me on today.
It's great to be able to have a conversation and get to know one another live.
And to your guests, I'm a Charlene Willis.
I'm the principal CEO of my own company, Charlene Willis LLC, where I am a leadership coach
and primarily a keynote speaker.
So the speaker comes first and then usually from that I coach in leadership and life.
And I guess my fun fact is that I like to consider myself a recovering C-suite executive.
So rather than deep in it, you know, I just, I stepped out of it and was,
which was probably a very courageous decision to make.
So, but it's great to be here with you Leslie.
Yeah.
I'm excited to have you and hear your story.
And I think, actually, I think the first time I met you, I can remember it was roundtables.
It was some event years ago when you were working in corporate.
Yeah.
It was some event that we sat next to each other.
And yeah, and that's when you were working for, I don't remember who it was, but.
Right.
It was probably Bechtel or Raytheon or Dan Karp for one of those companies.
But it made good to escape.
It is.
Sometimes you just have to pivot as I said.
And that's what we talked about a lot here is the courage to just leave those comfortable positions and do something different.
Share with us what your definition of courage is.
Courage to me is taking a step in spite of your fear.
Right.
And I happen to think that fear is a huge motivator to do absolutely nothing.
And having the courage to say, yes, I'm afraid and no, maybe I'm scared to death, but I know I need to do something different.
And I'm going to take the sats, the courage to do it.
And I have something Leslie, I can't remember if I talked about it when we last saw one another called seven seconds of courage.
And I believe that with seven seconds of courage, you can do anything that can start to transform your life, your career, your work, your relationships.
It just takes seven seconds of courage.
Yeah.
And I've heard that before.
I don't know if you or other people, you don't know if you filed Mel Robbins at all.
Right.
She does.
I think she has a five seconds.
Right.
Yeah, five, four, three, two, one.
But you don't go forward because you could go six, seven, eight, but you go five, four, three, two, one and just do the things.
And, you know, when you talk about courage and fear, it's people think it's a huge thing.
Like you left a sweet job.
I left for America, but it's often those little things we do that leads up, lead up to all those big things.
Absolutely.
You know, and I think a lot of times we put ourselves in situations where we are subjugated to other people or other things because we don't have courage.
You know, and I tell people, particularly I have two daughters, one's 27 and one's 29, you know, and I've taught them from the time they were growing up to remember that every day you are teaching people how to treat you.
And I think to live that out takes courage.
Right.
And I would start with them.
One of my daughters, her name is easy.
It's Savannah.
The other, her daughter is my other daughter.
Her name is French and it's a genie.
And so she gets all kinds as you can imagine of pronunciation.
And one of the first things I taught her is that, you know, when someone mispronounces your name, don't say, oh, it's okay.
Everybody mispronounces it.
Correct them because that is you.
That's your identity.
That's your ownership.
And the minute you let people be okay with or think you're okay with them not acknowledging and seeing you.
Right.
Then you've already, you know, started off on a back foot.
And I think have the courage, you know, to correct, right.
Do it kindly, do it gently, do it with compassion, but understand that courage starts with teaching people how to treat you.
No, absolutely.
So I love your story.
You shared it, the story slams.
I don't know.
I know you do.
So let's talk about the courageous things you've done in your life.
I don't know if you want to go back to beginning to that.
And it goes back to the little girl and that, you know, and I work, my real job is I'm a, or the one that pays me is I'm a self-directed Mary Kay.
And I really work with courage and confidence around young girls and start them young.
They say a girl's self-esteem or women's self-esteem is highest at age 10.
I would believe that.
And they're like, it's probably even younger than that now.
Right.
And it goes down from there.
Right.
We learned very, very early on what's wrong with us as opposed to what's right with us.
Right.
And it's based on what other people tell us and other things that we are just, you know, we are just bombarded with.
And, you know, I think for me, it's, and I talked about this in the story slam that, you know, the first defining moment for me that I can remember is literally when I was 12 years old.
And I had tried out for cheerleader in junior high school.
And I was so excited.
And I was, you know, and I thought this was it, you know, like so many people, you know, of, of our generation, you know, I didn't come from much and there wasn't much expected of me.
So when I decided to try out for cheerleader, I thought this is it.
This is how I'm going to be seen.
It's going to be fantastic.
And I tried out.
I did a great job.
And I didn't make the team.
I made it as the fourth alternate.
And I thought, well, gosh, I thought I was pretty good.
I mean, even in my, you know, 12 year old mind and the sponsor, they weren't coaches then the sponsor later put me on the team.
And in a way that it didn't make sense because I not only did I not make the team.
I made it as a fourth alternate, right, which is like akin to everybody gets a trophy and you'll never get on that.
And the, the sponsor put me on the team, you know, and then all of my innocence, I asked her why she moved me ahead of the other alternates and put me on the team.
And she said very pointedly, you know, she said, Charlene, well, you know, you're black and I thought you'd be a troublemaker.
So I didn't want you on the team.
And now that I've seen you in class because she was my room teacher, my math teacher says now I've seen you in class.
You're a nice little girl.
And for whatever reason, Leslie, and I don't even know where the strength came from, you know, I realized then that if I wasn't courageous, and if I wasn't brave and I if I wasn't, if I didn't direct how people thought about me or who I was,
then I was always my whole life going to be victim to who they thought I should be, you know, and, you know, and I'm not going to be a teacher.
You know, and I that played itself out, you know, at that time when I was 12, I, you know, I said to myself, well, I'm not going to give up my spot on the cheerleading team, but I'm going to prove to her that I'm so much more than what she thinks I am.
Right, because she she made me feel ashamed for being who I was.
And so somewhere inside me, I developed the courage to say I'm going to prove you wrong, you know, and, and that served me well but I will say that, you know, even too much of a good thing can be a bad thing, because that also set me on a path for the next 40 years of proving people wrong.
Right, and always just being in that spot. And it wasn't until I was 53.
I was diagnosed with cancer twice in, in six months. And so I was first diagnosed with uterine cancer. I had surgery at that taking care of six months later is diagnosed with aggressive breast cancer.
And that was not a six month journey that turned out to be a five year journey. And in that process, I realized that there were lots of opportunities to be courageous about my health.
And in the end, I realized that I had a huge opportunity to be courageous about me and who I am, and who I wanted to be and how I wanted to show up in the world, versus how I had been showing up in the world.
And so I had, I had been quite successful, I'd achieved more than most women, let alone black women had in my industry, which was at the time communications and crisis communications.
And, but what I realized is I spent all those years perfecting a persona of what people said I needed to be in order to be successful.
And, and they were right because I was successful.
Right. But then, and I realized that the, literally at the top of my career Leslie, I mean, I was killing it.
And then I had to realize that actually showing up as someone else every day for decades was killing me. Yeah. And that's where my cancer came from.
And through that process, you know, you'll never hear me say cancer was a gift, because I wouldn't wish that gift on anybody, but through that process, and it went on so long.
Who I had worked so hard to become was stripped away. And I had to have the courage to figure out who I really was.
Because I just created a facade, a beautiful facade for 40 years. But now what, and that was probably one of the, not probably that was the second most courageous point in my life, without a doubt, because I was stuck in between two worlds,
neither of which I understood.
Right. I couldn't go back to who I was, because that person didn't exist anymore.
And I had no idea who I was becoming. And it was just, it was awful, actually, it was really, really awful. And it was scary. And there was a point where I thought that it would be easier to not be alive than to be going through what I was going through.
Right.
So I dug deep for courage.
I think that's really, surely, what I want this podcast to speak to is to give people the courage to be who they want to be.
I interviewed somebody the other day and we talked about the little girl thing. And I said, you know, we started as a little girl, and then we start putting these coats on and these facades and these, I should be in, I've got to change.
And, you know, those are achievement oriented, like, I'm going to prove you and I'm going to do this.
And I'm just smiling it on. And then you wake up one day and whether it's, I think I found a lot of pivot points for women, 50. That is like, all right, what's next? And I've seen a lot of people redeveloping and recreating themselves, but then start throwing those things off.
Absolutely.
And I think that was it. It was, you know, there are many more horrible things about that time period.
But a few good things to really come out of it is I think that it made us all step away from the proverbial hamster wheel that we were on and to really stop and say, who am I? What do I want?
And what do I want the rest of my life to look like? Right? Not just my career, but what do I want the rest of my life to look like? And then do I have the courage to make the decisions to make that happen?
Right. We have to live our life.
And one thing I'm passionate about is, you know, enjoying life, you know, you can still be successful and achieve what you want and make a difference in people's lives, but enjoy your life while you're doing it.
Right. Right. And I think for me, the definition of enjoying your life changed, you know, people would always say, you know, while you never want to be that person, you know, or they'd say, you know, when you're taking your last breath, you're not going to say, gee, I wish I had finished that project.
And whenever I heard people say that, I was like, oh, no, no, that would be me.
I wanted to say, I wish I had finished that last project or I wish I had achieved XYZ because I was an achievement junkie.
Right. That's where my identity came from. That's where my work came from. That's where it all came from.
So it wasn't just saying, okay, you know, what do I want the rest of my life to look like? It was, do I want it to be this? Right?
Because you first have to answer that question before you can answer the question of, well, what do I want it to look like if I want it to be different?
And so for me, it was a complete, you know, transformation. As I tell people, you know, often now that if you had told me five years ago that I'd be living the life I am today, I would have said you were crazy.
I said, there's no possible way. You know, I don't desire to be a keynote speaker. I definitely don't desire to be a coach because I'd always seen coaching and companies as being punitive and I didn't want any part of that.
Right. I certainly didn't think that I'd ever write a book. But I realized once I realized I had a voice, I found my voice, and then I decided to start using my voice, you know, and really, you know, what were the best ways to do that.
And I decided going to a corporate office with my, you know, invisible armor on every day was not the best way for me to do that.
And you've got such an amazing story to be able to share that and give people courage.
And encourage other people to, you know, do that because I mean, I left corporate America 24 years ago, but I was not a C-suite at that point. But, you know, it was still scary, you know, and so, you know, the security, everybody asked me, like, what are you going to do when you quit your job?
The big question everybody has is what are you going to do about insurance?
I'm going to pay for it. Like, money to pay for it and you're paying for it with blood, sweat and tears. No vacation.
Right. Well, and you're kind of hastening your need for it because, you know, since things like, of course, you, you know, you look at the contributors, right? You look at your genetic, your genetic contributors, which I had none.
And then the next thing you look at is stress and you look at things like you start watching your cortisol levels and, you know, my stress was off the charts.
I was, you know, I was traveling all over the world, which I loved, or at least I thought I loved it. You know, I was doing all kinds of important things, which to me made me an important person, right, which was also really misaligned.
And, you know, you just get so caught up, so caught up in it. And then I realized that, wow, yeah, I'm really glad I have this great health care. But maybe if I changed my life, I wouldn't need so much.
I mean, I've had that thought, but it's definitely a pivotal thought because knock on one, I'm healthy. Like, right? Rarely, rarely do I go to the doctor. But I created a lifestyle that, you know, yes, they're stressed, but it's not crazy stress and I'm not playing the game that we played in corporate America.
Yeah, I was, you know, I was telling my husband and I think if you're a woman and especially if you're a minority woman, just the amount of hypervigilance that's required to not just walk in the world, but walk in the corporate world is, is really extreme.
And we get so used to it that we don't even realize the stress we're carrying before we even go into the office to deal with the stress that's brought on from there. You know, and I was telling my husband a couple of months ago, because it's been in 2020 was when I left the corporate world.
You know, and I told him, I said, you know, I realized something today. And he's like, what, you know, you know, and half listening to me, I'm sure. And I said, you know, for three years, I have not once walked into a room and felt like I needed to prove my worth to anyone.
Wow.
I haven't done that for three years. I said, I haven't done that in 50 years. Wow. And to be able to have just sat back and realized that, you know, to the, you know, to the point of my block that's called you are enough, you know, to just realize, I am enough.
I have to walk into this room and prove to you that I am anything other than who I am. You know, and I don't, I don't think that people recognize how many of us walk around every day feeling like whatever door I walk through are going to be people on the other side, who are going to
prove my value. Yeah, you know, and if you think about it, how humiliating is that? Yeah, right. Yeah, it's like, why are we not just assumed to be value, you know, valued or valuable and, you know, I used to wonder when I was in corporate, you know, how much like you do I need to be before
you Mr. Executive will see me first as human before you see me as a black woman or whatever trope you might put on me if I raise my voice, you know, it's like how much like you do I have to be in order to be seen as human.
And I just got tired of that. And it wasn't even just that I got tired of it. It said it wore me down. Yeah, it made you sick. Yeah, it wore me down. And so you know, one of my mantras and I use this in my keynote
speeches as well is its choice not chance that changes your life. Right. So choose before chance takes over. I love that. Right, because everything we want in life, everything we want to do is on the other side of fear.
And on that other side of fear is choice. I'll start with choice to me. And so, you know, so everybody I talk to, you know, make that choice today, just do it. Right, right. And you know, everybody always says, you know, tomorrow is not guaranteed to you and you know, we have all these types of, you know, little sayings and, you know, and you know why they exist, because they're true.
Yeah, that's why. Right. So when it's like, you know, oh, I'll do this tomorrow. I always say to myself today is tomorrow.
So true. Right. So to your point with your podcast, why not today? Yeah. Right. What am I putting this off for? And I think so many people because of fear and not having the courage and what other people think we don't do the things we want to do.
And so that's why I'm so passionate about this message and really giving people courage to do the big things, but to do the little things and to put us first. And we are worthy. We are enough.
Right. And, you know, do the things that give us joy and keep us healthy and right.
Yeah. You know, and I would say to Leslie, discover the things that bring you joy, because I've had three out of five people. If you ask them what brings you joy, they probably don't know. Right. They're going to say, oh, friends and family, you know, but you know what, we all have friends that really don't bring us joy.
We have family members that don't bring us joy either. Right. So once you get past the pat answers, you know, what really does bring you joy? You know, for me, it's playing with my obnoxious dogs.
I've discovered that for me, it's taking a walk without headphones, without talking to someone on the phone, just walking and just paying attention to what's going on around me, the squirrel who's working furiously to try to get this piece of food up a tree.
You know, the little things. And when you can focus in on that and really identify those things, I think it's just beautiful.
And it's when I was in corporate, if someone said those things to me, I was like, oh my gosh, are you going to start meditating next?
Exactly.
You know, but there really is true, there really is truth to those things. And it doesn't mean that you get rid of your edge or, you know, it just means that you appreciate what's around you.
So true. Yeah, I was listening to something the other day and they said, you know, pay attention to those little things.
And I try, you know, when I walk around Lake Anilot and right pictures to say, OK, I want to remember this moment and look at the little flowers and collect feathers and whatever I see a picture, a feather, I click a picture and just write it.
It's in the tea.
Yeah. And just, yeah, smell the roses, as they say.
Right, right. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, sometimes it's still so hard to get caught up in everything because these days there's a lot to get caught up in.
You know, but at the end of the day, the only person who can assure your happiness is you.
Yeah.
And I think it's important, important to remember that, you know, I tell people often, I said, you know, you're waiting for the Calvary to come save you, but the Calvary is already here and it's you.
Yeah.
Right. So let's get on with it.
Yeah, don't wait for the white horse and the person coming to save you.
Right. Because it's you. Recognize that it's you.
Yeah.
And it's so beautiful when you see people reach that point that they can do that, that they can put their fear aside and they, you know, and they, they can say, I do have the power to make a choice.
I do have the power to say, why wait until tomorrow? Why not today?
Right.
You know, and I love saying that when I give keynotes and I see the light go off in people's minds and they're like, wow, I just never thought about that. I have the power.
Right.
You know, beliefs that we've been told for so many years.
Yeah.
It's allowed to enjoy and we're allowed to enjoy our life and be around the people we care about and do the things we want to do.
Right. Right. You know, and we're, you know, if I were to add to that, you know, we're allowed to be good people.
You know, one of the things I do, I talk a lot about in my leadership practice is that, you know, with leaders, you know, they're wearing armor too.
Right.
And it's like, you can take that armor off.
You know, you can be human, you know, you are allowed to be fallible.
You know, and that's, I think, what people want today today is I think they want authenticity. I think they want humanity.
They want compassion in their leaders and in the people who are in their lives.
And the more I see people embrace that, the happier I see people become.
Yeah.
So true.
So you mentioned your book.
So tell us, you know what, I think I had in my Amazon card to order and then I realized, you know what, it never showed up.
I never probably clicked the button.
Leslie, go back and click that button.
I'm going to Florida in a couple of days. I'm going to bring it with me.
Great.
So tell us about your book and what motivates you to do that.
I know you can tell me with this message, I'm a book and that is the last thing in the world I want to do at this point.
But yeah.
And that's true.
And I'll tell you, I did not aspire to be an author.
That was not, I was not one of those people who always said, Oh, when I take some time off, I'm going to write a book.
That's what I really want to do.
It wasn't that at all.
It was, you know, I, as I mentioned, I got through this health crisis.
I decided that I needed to leave my, my high stress, high power, high everything, high octane job.
And, and when I had cancer, I was never someone who said, you know, I'm a woman of faith.
And I never said, you know, you know, why me God, why me?
I just always said, tell me what you want me to do with this.
If you're going to bring me through, tell me what I'm supposed to do with it.
And, and I woke up one day and I thought, I am supposed to write a book because I have the courage to tell the truth, to not sugarcoat what happens in the C sweet to not sugarcoat my journey.
And so I decided, well, okay, if I'm going to write a book, am I supposed to write a book about my cancer journey?
And I realized now I'm supposed to write a book about my life journey.
And so the title of my blog is, you are enough reclaiming your career and your life with purpose, passion and unapologetic authenticity.
And, and the book is really all about that.
It's about how, you know, what I face and how I reclaimed my life and my career unapologetically.
And how others can do the same.
So it's parts, it's, it's all nonfiction, of course, but it's part self help.
It's part how to, and it's also part how not to write, right?
So that you don't find yourself, you know, at 50 something years old, you know, either sick or standing at the top of the mountain and saying to yourself, is this all there is?
I went through all that for this.
I've interviewed somebody else on the podcast that talked about, you know, whatever we're trying to achieve, or, you know, we get there and it's like, it's not really what I wanted, or the adage of, you know, skip the beach trip so you can buy the beach house.
Right.
You get to that point and you skip so many things.
Right, right.
How can we share this message to younger girls?
They have to look through it and wait till they're 50 to figure this out or hopefully they're figuring it out earlier.
Well, and I can tell you if my late 20s girls are any indication, they figure it out a lot sooner.
Right.
Of course, they're completely, you know, different generation, but even with my executive female clients, especially who are climbing the ladder, and they'll come to me because they'll know I've had the executive experience and they want to know what do I need to do to get there.
And the first thing I ask them is, are you, are you climbing toward that next high level position because you want it, or because you think you should want it?
I said, so think about it and they'll say, oh, I want it.
And I said, that's great.
But I want you to take a couple of days and think about that question.
And when you come back and say they don't really want it, you'd be you.
Well, maybe you wouldn't be surprised, but I would say it's higher than 50-50.
Oh, yeah.
But they'll come back and they'll say, you know what?
I'm happy where I am.
You know, and, you know, and I'll ask them things like, well, you know, do you really need that bigger house?
You know, do you need that bigger car that you want?
What would that look like?
Are you going to buy a better car?
Are you going to spend more money?
And, you know, are you going to save things for a rainy day that isn't going to come because you're going to die from a heart attack at your desk?
Or, you know, just kind of what is it?
And I told them, I said, here's the secret.
Nobody tells you when you're an executive woman and you start making really big money.
What changes in your life is that your family has better vacations than they used to because you're not there, right?
You're not there.
You're the one flying in on the third day of the vacation and flying out on the fifth day, right?
And so it comes down to, you know, really quality.
What does quality mean to you?
And I'm always really pleasantly surprised, although I don't judge, but pleasantly surprised at the number of women who come back to me and say, you know, I really had to think about why I want to keep doing this and why the level that I'm at is not good enough for me, right?
Or how can I make the level I am better without having to give up so much of myself?
Yeah, you know, the old management principle, the Peter principle.
Oh, yeah.
Yes.
People get promoted to obsolescence because they don't know how to do the job.
They're happy this, but you got to give them the new title.
And my dad was a city planner and he was out, you know, being in northern Virginia, people kept moving further and further out to get the bigger house.
Right.
And then they're commuting hours.
They don't get to enjoy their beautiful house and their exhausted.
Like, why do we need all the bigger things, the more things that.
Right, right.
And you know, you know, creature comforts are nice.
I'm not saying that they aren't.
But I tell you, so we live in Ashburn, Virginia, and we have since 1995 is when we, when we moved out here.
And we always said, well, we're going to get that even bigger house, we're just going to move closer in because we, you know, we have the, we'll have the money to do it.
You know, and we never did.
And that was fine.
And, you know, we were fortunate to have help with our kids and around the house because my husband and I both had very busy careers.
When, when COVID hit and everything was shut down.
I realized that, you know, we've been in this house now for almost 20 years.
I realized that my, my nanny and my housekeeper had spent more time in my house than I had.
Oh, I'm sure they knew my house better than I did.
Right.
And that was kind of a sobering moment.
You know, the day I hear this, this musical tone in my house and thinking, what is that?
You know, and my nanny says, it's the washing machine.
I thought, I didn't know I'd made noise when it stopped.
Never paid attention to it.
Right.
In your long house.
Yeah.
You know, so it's, you know, I don't begrudge anybody who wants more, who wants bigger, who wants any of those things.
I just want them to ask themselves why and how is it going to make their life better?
Right.
You know, and if they have an answer that is satisfactory to them, who am I to judge?
Right.
Because happiness looks different on everybody.
I just want people to have those things by choice, not because they just fell into it.
Not by chance.
Right.
Exactly.
Obviously your life is different and better and happier and looks like you're enjoying it and hopefully healthier.
So how would you encourage somebody else?
And we've talked about a lot of different things, but first listening or watching this, how would you encourage them to take the step?
Yeah, I would say, you know, a couple of things.
First and foremost, I tell everyone I talk to you to really recognize that you are enough.
Right.
That you are everything you need to be.
And all of those people, those voices that who are telling you that you're not enough, silence them, even if they're in your own head.
The second, and I mean this with every fiber of my being.
You know, it is choice, not chance that changes everything.
Yeah.
Right.
And that can be a small choice.
It can be a huge choice, but it changes everything.
And it doesn't mean you have to change your life, your whole life.
You have to pivot and go in a new direction.
Start small, you know, and work your way up.
You know, what's not working?
You know, is there some way you want to show up differently?
And then the other is, so once you realize those things, how do you do it?
So, and that's where I get to my seven seconds of courage.
And if you look at a kind of what some of the research and neuroscientists are, it will tell us is that that first six seconds are all fear when we think we want to do something.
That's when we're in our fight or flight mode.
And what you want to do is get to that seventh second because that's when one part of your brain, that fight or flight shuts down and possibility opens up.
And you just need to get to that seventh second.
Just take that deep breath, get to that seventh second and take action.
Whatever that is.
That way.
I love that.
You know, why not today?
Exactly.
Why not today?
Yeah, I knew your message would be perfect for this.
So thank you.
So to find your book, to find you to contact you to connect with you, I'm going to share it in the show notes.
But what are you going to share as far as people where to get your book?
Well, certainly first thing I would say is please follow me on LinkedIn and sign up for for my newsletter.
And on LinkedIn, you can just find me at charlene.wheelist and you'll know because it's my speaking website, LinkedIn site, and you'll see that.
My website is www.charlenewheelist.com.
You can get my book there and some other goodies that are going up on my site soon.
And that are freebies that you can get and other things to purchase.
And then of course, my book is available Barnes and Noble Amazon.com and all of your other places, popular places except the airport that you buy a book.
And it is, it's available in hard copy as well as as audio book and I am the the narrator in the audio book as well.
And the only thing if you buy the book during my through my website and send me a note, I'll actually send you a personalized autographed copy of it.
Oh, okay. Yes, I don't know if I can get it by Saturday, but you're in rest and you could actually.
And I heard Barnes and Noble open in rest.
Yes, yes, yes, I know they have me on my book online and some have it in store some don't yet. I don't really understand how they figure that out.
But yes, we're in happy to do that.
Okay, yay. Well, thank you for being a guest and I really enjoy getting to know you and your story.
And so you can find the Why Not Today Podcast at anyplacepodcasts.com.
We do have a website called whynottodaypodcast.com.
And we have why not today swag.
So if you want to encourage other people or you want to be encouraged daily, you've got stickers and t-shirts and cups and all kinds of looking at some other fun things.
Feel free to share them. Anybody listening, share the podcast, rate it, comment and review it.
And thank you, Charlene. So much fun to know you.
Yes.
Everybody listening. Thank you for listening or watching and don't forget they why not today.
Great. Thank you, Leslie. And thank you to your listeners and viewers.
Thank you. Bye.