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Hey, friends. Welcome back to Questions You Didn't
Ask. I'm Nyesha Frey. In this episode, Dr. Shanita
Randolph and Dr. Reagan Johnson join me to talk
about the Updose Protective Style Study, salon
-based outreach, and what real -world research
looks like in action. Let's jump into it, doing
it for ourselves. I hope that my audience is
picking up on some themes that keep coming up
in our conversations with you. You all are so
consistent in regard to, you know, being motivated
from your core. who you are and your values.
Also, you're very empathetic to what is happening
in your community and that motivates you even
more. But also you extend that further through
collaboration by listening. and asking and being
present and being responsive. But then the other
thing that I'm picking up on is this bi -directional
partnership. You know, one of the things that
I think that really gets in the way of building
that trust in the community is that, you know,
people in our community are overwhelmed, right?
A lot of people in the world, okay, are overwhelmed.
But our community is, you know, we're overwhelmed
with... more stressors, more challenges, more
barriers and obstructions, right? And so coming
to them and asking them to participate in one
more thing can be really, really daunting. And
so the fact that you are going and asking them,
if you were to participate, what would that look
like? And how can we be of service? And what
would make it worth your while? I think is reflective
of your heart. but also a really good research
strategy, right? For developing effective research
questions, interventions, things of that sort.
Because oftentimes what you see is people coming
in and asking of the community, wanting to examine
the community, being curious about the community
and then bounce, you know, I'm gone, peace, see
ya. And that's it. But what you just explained
with the evolution from the talk. and its success,
and that partnership, which I think is powerful,
and then how that led to establishing Safe Cultures,
and that the opportunity there is to actually
build capacity of one of your partners. That
doesn't necessarily advantage the heat lab directly.
I mean, right? Am I missing something? I mean,
it does. Because, and I'm going to say we, because
I'm going to speak for Shanita on this too. We
are who we say we are. Yep. And when you operate
in that, then it advantages you to be the person
that you said you are. If we say that we are
people who. uh prioritized bi -directional partnerships
that we want to give to the community as much
as we take and sometimes more than we take then
that's who you have to be and so then it advantages
the heat lab because it increases trust as you
said it shows the framework for a blueprint that
we go back the blueprint of how other teams and
labs should operate particularly in community
engaged research and i would say community engaged
Amongst all communities, we specifically, or
I specifically, engage Black communities. But
this should be the way that you engage people
in general. Like Lauren Hill said, reciprocity,
okay? Yes, darling. We should take as much pleasure
in seeing someone else's dream or goals succeed
as we do in ensuring that our own. One time for
tearing down that capitalistic mindset, okay?
and worldview and coming back into, into who
we are, what we say we are. Thank you so much
for that reframe because that's critical. That's
critical in what sets you apart and that's critical
to the blueprint. So thank you. Stand toes down
on that. Yes. Ten toes down. Like, listen, and
I think this is why, I mean, we really care about
our mission. And I think this is, you know, as
Reagan said, is who we are. I am appreciative
if the work leads me to a promotion. I really
don't care about promotion and tenure aside from
doing the work that I'm purposed to do. And you
can't create that. Either you have that and that's
who you are or not. And that relates back to
what Reagan said about her career choice. Right.
She said, I want to help my people. I think I
want to do it through medicine. Oh, that didn't
work. Well, then how else can I do it? Oh, nursing
is a strategy to do it. Either way, I'm going
to get it done. Right. So one thing that I got
so many questions for y 'all and I know I can't
ask them all, but the heat lab isn't just about
data and research. I learned that you all are
about so much more than that. Can you share more
about initiatives like the Science of Soul and
how they support holistic healing? Yes, the Science
of Soul. This was an amazing event that we had
in the spring of last year, integrating the arts
with science and the community. I'll just share
this story for the listeners who may not have
context of it. But Science of Soul was a vision
that I had in a concert listening to Raheem Devon
and Lettucey at the DPAC in Durham. And at the
end of the concert, Raheem's sex session. He
started talking about Black women and giving
stats and started talking about PrEP. Well, come
to find out, he was an ambassador for Gilead
Sciences around this, and he has his own foundation
that focuses on HIV. I text Reagan in March of
2023, 24, and I said, we're going to get Raheem
Debon to Durham. That's what we're going to do.
Well, March of 2025, he was here. And it was
an amazing two -day event. And when you talk
about how they support holistic healing, we had
TED Talks from community members that were paired
with many TED Talks from clinicians and researchers
on mental health, maternal child health, caregiving,
HIV AIDS. We had a community partner that shared
her personal story with living with HIV. And
followed by her, we had a researcher that talked
about the research aspect of HIV. For this two
-day event, we had dancing. We had live music.
Rahim did a mini concert for us. And it was a
moment of healing that we did not recognize.
how much we needed it and how much the community
needed it. It was a chance for us to understand
science, understand these issues, have some resources
to address them in our community and doing that
in such a way that brought us healing. And I
think that as we are addressing, you know, even
our work, how do we look at the whole self? How
do we consider where people work, live and play
and socialize? into our solutions. And so, you
know, it is our goal to continue things like
the science of soul. Yeah, I'm speechless. I'm
sorry. Every time I think about it, like the
impact that it had was just so great. And so
we are. Planning now to look at sponsors to be
able to support it in its next iteration. I'm
so committed to it, though, if I got to sell
donuts and fish plates. I hope Science of Soul
happens again in 2020. Well, y 'all heard it
here. We're looking for some sponsors for Science
of Soul. Don't be shy. Come on, come through
with your checks, your checkbooks. You know,
you got to tap. We got you. So unfortunately,
in the climate that we're in now with cuts in
higher education and reprioritizing and organizations
having to shift things, it's not going to be
funded through the organization that funded it
last year. And so we are having to rethink how
we're going to make it happen. And that's a common
theme for a lot of researchers and practitioners
that do things to support health equity, addressing
health disparities in marginalized communities
is that pivot. We've been talking about that
quite a bit. How do we pivot? How do we shift?
How do we change? How do we innovate in the midst
of so much upheaval? And Reagan, you played a
major role in bringing the science of soul together.
What did that mean for you? How do you think
it helped? the community, and the heat lab? I
keep using the word benchmark and revolutionary
and all of these words, but I think they really
do fit what the heat lab has done and Science
of Soul was no different. I think the Science
of Soul has the opportunity to change the way
organizations, particularly academic organizations,
partner with the community to disseminate information.
The engaging nature of these many TED Talks invoked
a level of emotion that you saw in the room,
but it also sparked curiosity. So from our evaluations,
like a lot of people express how much they learned
and what they learned and what that led them
to go look up for themselves. And that's the
very nature of what we should be doing, right?
We're conduits of education. We're conduits of
health. Right. We're not there to just give all
the answers to people. What we said, ain't nobody
come to save us. We have to save ourselves. And
this was a way that I see the community being
able to do that and us being able to play a part
in the community saving themselves. You said
a whole word. Ain't nobody coming to save us.
Nobody. And when we recognize that, we can. develop
innovations like these that educate, entertain,
bridge together community members. Because Ryan
Devon is a celebrity, a star, but he's also a
community member. Like he shared some personal
stories throughout this that made him seem like
everybody else in the room. I think people, you
know, until he started singing, everybody has
started to believe, oh, he just. you know, a
regular person, he's normal like me. And he goes
through the same things that I go through and
he made this decision. Maybe I should consider
how I can make this decision for my health as
well. And that's the tie that bind, right? Maybe
that's what we need to, in this day and age where
everybody's on social media, everybody is pop
culture critics and lovers of pop culture stands.
And how do we use that? in order to help people
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let's keep the conversation going. Yes. And one
thing that I loved about being a part of the
science of soul was how it brought people together
from. Multiple sectors, right? Because you all
had politicians from the federal level, from
the state level that either sent remarks, sent
their staff, what have you. You had community
folks, just everyday community folks that were
welcome, whether it was in the academic setting
or in the community setting where we were ready
to party. We ate. And everybody was on the same
floor. Everybody was able to talk and connect
and engage in conversation. And people welcome
that. I definitely felt very at home with both
listening to Raheem speak and then engaging with
him, even just for a picture. Because again,
it seemed like he was really there because this
was who he is and what he wants to convey to
other people. that share his you know his journey
and in different ways right so i think that that's
just really important that you all are facilitating
these events that are very high quality very
very well put together very well organized beautiful
decorations celebratory and folks feel like they
are a part of it, right? They're not just observing
it from afar or being a fan, but you're a part
of it. You are a part of the community. And so
no matter where you're at, and I saw some pretty
high level, you know, well -known researchers,
you know, deans, what have you, and they were
letting their hair down, right? They needed a
space and they took full advantage of it because
they felt welcome. Right. So I just want to say
that, you know, not all researchers are stuffy,
not all researchers are stuck up in the ivory
tower. And I'm thankful that the heat lab is
one is one of those places where where people
can come and feel like they are a part of something.
And one thing that I want people to feel a part
of or to know more about is this amazing research
study called Updo's Protective Styles. And so
let's talk about it. Shanita, what is it and
how does it address health equity for Black women?
Yeah, so HIV is still a thing. Black women make
up about 12 to 14 percent of the United States
population, but over 50 percent of new cases
of HIV are among Black women. They get it through
heterosexual contact. That doesn't necessarily
have to be the story. There is PrEP, which is
a medication that if taken consistently can improve
or decrease one from getting HIV. And it's been
proven up to 99 % effective. There are different
ways now. There are injectables. There's oral
medication. But what we know is that it's been
out since 2012. FDA approved less than 2 % of
Black women actually take PrEP. for a number
of reasons so in the heat lab we have with beauty
salons with stylists who have been consultants
and with black women we have co -created updos
using prep doing it for ourselves protective
styles and our goal as we always say we're not
prep pushers that's how have i like to say it
right i'm not pushing it no that sounds like
a song but What we do believe is that women should
have the information that they need to make an
informed decision about their own sexual health
and sexual health should be defined for them
in the way that they want it best defined. And
so we want to bring awareness to this. We also
recognize that some of the barriers in clinical
and research is that we evaluate the effectiveness
of PrEP as a yes or no. Like I started it. And,
you know, I'm on it. But what we look what we're
looking at is, you know, even if a woman reaches
out to a telehealth provider about PrEP, even
if she goes from not knowing about PrEP to now
understanding about PrEP, we just want women
to have that informed decision. So it's three
components. One is a stylist training where we
are training stylists across North Carolina to
be opinion leaders. They receive continuing education
units for completing the training. It's a two
-hour training. And they also received Ask Me
About Prep signage to go in their beauty salons.
Component number two is a six -week entertainment
video where we have co -created with a creative
agency that really tells the story through drama,
entertainment about prep and about sexual health.
that the women would actually view this six week.
And then we've partnered with a telehealth agency
where women can actually reach out in the privacy
of their own home, talk to a telehealth provider,
get HIV testing delivered to their home. And
if they choose to, they could even have PrEP
delivered to the home. Earlier, we were talking
about how things change, even in creating this,
a lot of changes have happened. When we first
started this project, there was only oral. Now
there's injectable. When we first started, the
agency, you know, had funding to be able to offer
it free. Right now, some things have shifted
in government with Medicaid and Medicare, but
we are still moving forward and shifting things
as as we need to around that. So that's updo's
protective styles, using PrEP, doing it for ourselves.
Awesome. Now, Reagan, I'm going to ask you, you
know, one thing that you all need to know about
Reagan and Shanita is that these are some not
just powerful black women, but they are beautiful.
When I say they be quaffed. OK, so tell us a
little bit more about why beauty salons. I mean,
we've talked a lot about your partnership, Heat
Lab, with beauty salons and barbershops. Why
them? Yeah, it's so crazy because everything
goes back to my college days, right? So when
I was in nursing school, I'm aging myself. So
I worked at a pager shop, a beeper shop a long
time ago. Very popular in the city. Like everybody
came to this beeper shop and right next door,
a slash beauty salon that everybody went to this
barbershop beauty salon. There'd be a million
people in there. So I needed to practice, you
know, my blood pressures. And the barber would
be like, girl, just come in here and do all your
blood pressures in here. And on Saturday mornings,
I would camp out in the barbershop and do a ton.
Anybody who let me practice blood pressures,
that kind of just really gave me some kind of
meaning to this is a good space to talk to people,
educate people. At that time, people would spend
hours in the shop. And then when I got into my
master's program, I heard another researcher
in Philly was doing a barbershop program around
HIV specifically. And I was like, oh, that's
super interesting to pair the two things that
I'm interested in, the two things that I like.
I like getting my head on. I like teaching people
about HIV and preventing HIV. And so that's kind
of where... It started with me thinking of this
as a good space to kind of share information,
share education and innovate, because think about
all the things that you hear in a beauty salon
or a barbershop, all the things that you tell
your stylist or your stylist. My stylist tells
me a lot, too. So you get to know so much about
the people who you're in community with because
that's a community. Right. Yes. So that's what
started it. And I think it's been a perfect,
trusted place to engage in this work. That's
awesome. I mean, I love what you said, too, about,
you know, this whole bidirectional thing has
been planting a seed in you for a long time.
Right. Because. here you are you know a young
person working towards your nursing degree and
you're also physically like working right you
got to go to work to pay for school or whatever
it is that you need right it's your business
but but here is this barbershop i mean he is
successful barbershop owner everybody loves his
spot and he cares about you and your education
And because of that, he invited you into, you
don't work at his barbershop, you work at the
pager shop. And he invited you in to get your
clinical experience from his customers. And you
want to talk about informed consent, right? So
you had to ask because not everybody wanted to
be bothered with you, right? Right, right. Now
they can say no, but the barber and rest in peace.
the barber lindsey brown he'd be like y 'all
gonna let reagan do her blippers because this
girl gotta get her education because we need
her we need her to be great we need her and she
gonna remember us when she finish and get on
the other side and here you are co -director
of the heat lab y 'all give it up y 'all give
it up give it up all right like give it up for
the him the other stylists and all the patients.
Look, I'm calling them post -patients. The clients
and the barbershops that allow that. I'm so,
so grateful for everybody who's been a part of
my journey. You've been listening to Questions
You Didn't Ask, hosted by Nyesha Frey with Dr.
Shanita Randolph and Dr. Reagan Johnson. If you're
inspired by doing it for ourselves, subscribe,
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Together, we're doing it for ourselves.