WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.899 Hello, my name is Baron J. Damon. I'm your certified 00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:05.780 philanthropic coach. We support individuals and 00:00:05.780 --> 00:00:08.779 businesses in crafting strategic plans for their 00:00:08.779 --> 00:00:11.339 charitable giving. Confused about where you want 00:00:11.339 --> 00:00:13.419 to start? Join me for a complimentary session 00:00:13.419 --> 00:00:16.539 today to explore your passions and craft a plan 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.199 for meaningful impact. Let's make a difference 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:37.640 together. Go to www .businessoflifecc .com. Welcome 00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:40.640 back to Questions You Didn't Ask. I'm Nyesha 00:00:40.640 --> 00:00:43.960 Frey, and this is episode two of No Health, No 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:46.780 Wealth. We're continuing our conversation with 00:00:46.780 --> 00:00:50.240 Dr. Keisha Bentley -Edwards and Farhad Ali about 00:00:50.240 --> 00:00:53.640 the ties between economics, justice, and health. 00:00:54.090 --> 00:00:56.210 Let's get into it. Yeah. And I wanted to speak 00:00:56.210 --> 00:00:58.950 on that a little bit and pull Farad in some more 00:00:58.950 --> 00:01:01.329 in terms of the manufactured adversity, because 00:01:01.329 --> 00:01:03.590 what you just talked about in regard to those 00:01:03.590 --> 00:01:06.670 four grocery stores on one intersection, I have 00:01:06.670 --> 00:01:09.569 definitely experienced that when I lived in North 00:01:09.569 --> 00:01:12.810 Raleigh. Right. I'm from Raleigh and North Raleigh 00:01:12.810 --> 00:01:15.629 has always been considered the more affluent 00:01:15.629 --> 00:01:18.510 neighborhood or community. And there are several, 00:01:18.549 --> 00:01:21.969 but it's definitely, you know, has always had 00:01:21.969 --> 00:01:26.060 that reputation. And it wasn't because I was 00:01:26.060 --> 00:01:28.640 affluent. I just found a nice apartment in a 00:01:28.640 --> 00:01:32.299 nice place. So I was kind of, you know, the person 00:01:32.299 --> 00:01:34.799 that was a little maybe out of place, you know. 00:01:35.579 --> 00:01:39.840 But so there's the aspect of even city planning 00:01:39.840 --> 00:01:43.680 in terms of the fact that what I found in Raleigh 00:01:43.680 --> 00:01:48.590 was that you did have a mixture of rent. and 00:01:48.590 --> 00:01:52.450 property values, right? So you could be a person 00:01:52.450 --> 00:01:55.769 with a low to moderate middle income and still 00:01:55.769 --> 00:01:58.049 live in North Raleigh. And so there's some of 00:01:58.049 --> 00:02:00.810 that mixture. And with that, if you were able 00:02:00.810 --> 00:02:03.109 to find that nice apartment and qualify for it 00:02:03.109 --> 00:02:05.670 and maintain it, all that good stuff, then you 00:02:05.670 --> 00:02:08.909 had access to more of these grocery stores and 00:02:08.909 --> 00:02:11.629 shopping centers and free samples and really 00:02:11.629 --> 00:02:16.120 good customer service, maybe. And I say maybe 00:02:16.120 --> 00:02:18.199 because sometimes, depending on whether or not 00:02:18.199 --> 00:02:20.120 I had my hair done or I had just come back from 00:02:20.120 --> 00:02:22.879 a meeting, from work, where I was looking really 00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:24.759 professional, or if I had just rolled out of 00:02:24.759 --> 00:02:27.740 the bed on a Saturday morning to go grab something, 00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.360 I might be treated differently in certain spaces, 00:02:30.479 --> 00:02:34.699 right? Absolutely. And that's a part of, no matter 00:02:34.699 --> 00:02:36.800 how much money you make, how much education you 00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:39.490 get, you're still Black. Right. And the first 00:02:39.490 --> 00:02:42.050 thing that people do is they they make a judgment 00:02:42.050 --> 00:02:44.009 about you and how they're going to treat you 00:02:44.009 --> 00:02:46.169 and what opportunities they're going to present 00:02:46.169 --> 00:02:48.949 to you based on your physical appearance, not 00:02:48.949 --> 00:02:51.110 based on your resume. And even then, sometimes 00:02:51.110 --> 00:02:55.669 they don't care. So what I saw is that, you know, 00:02:55.689 --> 00:02:58.870 OK, so this is able to happen right where you 00:02:58.870 --> 00:03:04.490 can have these competing. Companies providing 00:03:04.490 --> 00:03:09.259 the same service. Slightly different ways, just 00:03:09.259 --> 00:03:12.659 slightly different ways in the same area. It's 00:03:12.659 --> 00:03:15.099 not more populated in North Raleigh, I don't 00:03:15.099 --> 00:03:19.199 think. Right? No. You see how much space there 00:03:19.199 --> 00:03:22.379 is in between houses? No. Right. But I'm just 00:03:22.379 --> 00:03:24.900 saying, like, in terms of even for those that 00:03:24.900 --> 00:03:26.639 were like me, I was living in an apartment. You 00:03:26.639 --> 00:03:28.280 know what I'm saying? There's apartments, there's 00:03:28.280 --> 00:03:30.240 houses, there's condos, there's all types of 00:03:30.240 --> 00:03:32.340 stuff in North Raleigh. They still have these 00:03:32.340 --> 00:03:35.819 businesses. multiple businesses that offer the 00:03:35.819 --> 00:03:38.740 same things they offer groceries they offer healthy 00:03:38.740 --> 00:03:42.020 food options they offer coffee they offer restaurants 00:03:42.020 --> 00:03:45.960 they offer workout they offer nature trails they 00:03:45.960 --> 00:03:48.960 offer all types of things that could help make 00:03:48.960 --> 00:03:51.280 your life easier as long as you can afford it 00:03:51.280 --> 00:03:54.599 right you're not charged a convenience fee right 00:03:54.599 --> 00:03:56.580 you're not so they have all these things to make 00:03:56.580 --> 00:04:01.039 life more convenient but if you live in the hood 00:04:02.379 --> 00:04:05.360 then you are charged it's a tax it's a convenient 00:04:05.360 --> 00:04:08.580 fee that's added so going to the bodega going 00:04:08.580 --> 00:04:12.300 to the the mini mart you know all those different 00:04:12.300 --> 00:04:15.360 things you get you pay you pay for the convenience 00:04:15.360 --> 00:04:18.759 you get that's that added tax you pay for the 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:21.779 surveillance and the harassment too so the other 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:26.879 part of it is You know, when they talk about 00:04:26.879 --> 00:04:29.759 it's not a good investment in the black and brown 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:31.980 community and we're going to lose money and this 00:04:31.980 --> 00:04:35.019 and that. But on the other hand, at least in 00:04:35.019 --> 00:04:37.699 Texas, your example, right? They're handing out, 00:04:37.740 --> 00:04:40.639 they're giving food away. They're giving food 00:04:40.639 --> 00:04:45.000 away because someone said it wasn't good enough, 00:04:45.220 --> 00:04:47.399 right? So I'm just trying to figure out how is 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:48.839 that math, math? And I'm going to throw that 00:04:48.839 --> 00:04:52.170 to Farah. How does that work out? And there's 00:04:52.170 --> 00:04:56.509 my other question. There was a Target and a Walmart 00:04:56.509 --> 00:04:59.129 that was always empty. Have you ever been into 00:04:59.129 --> 00:05:02.209 a Walmart where there is never at least 15 people 00:05:02.209 --> 00:05:05.209 in line in front of you? The one last Kmart. 00:05:05.740 --> 00:05:09.259 the one last i'm telling you that empty empty 00:05:09.259 --> 00:05:12.319 parking lots like what like you could just dance 00:05:12.319 --> 00:05:14.279 you could you know how you see that the tick 00:05:14.279 --> 00:05:16.379 tocks where folks are dancing in walmart so is 00:05:16.379 --> 00:05:19.680 the walmart stand because the one that was over 00:05:21.050 --> 00:05:24.230 in the line it's club walmart it's all everybody 00:05:24.230 --> 00:05:27.350 the line in the back of the store and they're 00:05:27.350 --> 00:05:31.870 making money hand over fist clearly clearly everybody 00:05:31.870 --> 00:05:33.810 mad up in there and they got a point yes they 00:05:33.810 --> 00:05:36.589 got several police always always not the police 00:05:36.589 --> 00:05:39.709 but the police the police we're gonna let you 00:05:39.709 --> 00:05:41.009 talk we're gonna be we're gonna let you talk 00:05:41.009 --> 00:05:43.250 we're gonna let you talk go ahead listen i enjoy 00:05:43.250 --> 00:05:45.949 watching y 'all i mean i think it's important 00:05:45.949 --> 00:05:49.310 i mean you know, this is an interesting conversation 00:05:49.310 --> 00:05:52.009 because we're talking about culture as well, 00:05:52.189 --> 00:05:57.089 right? And so we begin to believe that sometimes 00:05:57.089 --> 00:06:02.629 when you're conditioned to be in that environment, 00:06:02.829 --> 00:06:06.670 then it becomes normal, right? I mean, I'm listening 00:06:06.670 --> 00:06:09.149 to you all talk. It's not like we all haven't 00:06:09.149 --> 00:06:11.870 had that experience, right? We all have had it 00:06:11.870 --> 00:06:15.829 because the environment conditions us to be space 00:06:15.829 --> 00:06:18.750 in that. and we've also experienced differently 00:06:18.750 --> 00:06:22.529 by being in different communities and so i think 00:06:22.529 --> 00:06:27.490 there's this awareness of people are putting 00:06:27.490 --> 00:06:31.029 culture on economic development decisions to 00:06:31.029 --> 00:06:34.949 match that right so it's interesting if you you 00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:37.970 look at well we're going to build this this big 00:06:37.970 --> 00:06:41.610 box store right but then they put the stuff next 00:06:41.610 --> 00:06:44.199 to it that they feel is going to help the culture 00:06:44.199 --> 00:06:47.680 like the hair place the bar like they it's really 00:06:47.680 --> 00:06:50.819 about sales it's really about the dollar and 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:53.360 the more those dollars you can get because of 00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:56.480 the buying power you go hard at it and create 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:00.279 this economic environment again you know i don't 00:07:00.279 --> 00:07:02.120 you know i remember they would boycott the stores 00:07:02.120 --> 00:07:03.819 i'm like there's some stores we can't boycott 00:07:03.819 --> 00:07:05.259 because those are the only stores in our community 00:07:05.259 --> 00:07:09.259 absolutely so you we can't boycott some stores 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.180 but i do believe that when you start looking 00:07:12.180 --> 00:07:15.339 at the return on an on dollar investment i mean 00:07:15.339 --> 00:07:17.480 that's what i'm hearing from you right it's like 00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:19.759 the developers are not thinking about the community 00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:21.500 they think about getting a return for their dollar 00:07:21.500 --> 00:07:25.620 and so the community becomes secondary because 00:07:25.620 --> 00:07:27.680 really what you want out of the community is 00:07:27.680 --> 00:07:32.519 financing so no one is talking around improving 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:35.500 the community they're asking how many people 00:07:35.500 --> 00:07:39.259 are in the community what's the roof People make 00:07:39.259 --> 00:07:43.000 these business decisions based on rooftops, people 00:07:43.000 --> 00:07:47.079 in the community, incomes. All these things are 00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:51.160 factors that are not necessarily additives. They're 00:07:51.160 --> 00:07:55.600 just science. Is it science? It might be science. 00:07:55.699 --> 00:08:01.899 I don't know. I mean, this is science. If you 00:08:01.899 --> 00:08:04.259 have a lot of single moms in the community and 00:08:04.259 --> 00:08:07.680 they may have children. They may or may not have 00:08:07.680 --> 00:08:11.399 a partner. It's a science to put a child care 00:08:11.399 --> 00:08:14.180 facility on the corner. I mean, that's the science. 00:08:14.279 --> 00:08:18.040 The numbers work because if you get 5 % of that 00:08:18.040 --> 00:08:22.379 community, you make money. You make money if 00:08:22.379 --> 00:08:26.439 you get 5 % of that community to buy. I mean, 00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:32.299 economics is all a social science. That's true. 00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.639 It's like who's buying what and how much convenience, 00:08:36.759 --> 00:08:39.120 as you would say, Keisha, to put in their community 00:08:39.120 --> 00:08:42.039 for them to get access to it. And then they figured 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:45.019 if there's a thousand people there, if I can 00:08:45.019 --> 00:08:47.779 get 10 percent of that thousand, they run those 00:08:47.779 --> 00:08:50.299 in their performance, which is their balance 00:08:50.299 --> 00:08:52.440 sheets or their financial statements. And they 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.100 say, if I get 10 percent of these people, I make 00:08:54.100 --> 00:08:57.690 it, you know. And they get 20 percent. It's a 00:08:57.690 --> 00:09:00.330 great day. 30 percent is a better day. Right. 00:09:00.450 --> 00:09:03.070 But that 10 percent is the conservative number. 00:09:04.110 --> 00:09:07.129 You know that, again, it may attract more people 00:09:07.129 --> 00:09:11.049 in how they do it. So, you know, when you look 00:09:11.049 --> 00:09:16.070 at communities, it's like when you have economic 00:09:16.070 --> 00:09:19.190 planners or housing planners or business planners, 00:09:19.429 --> 00:09:21.549 it's really this is what I'm saying. We want 00:09:21.549 --> 00:09:24.129 we should really want communities to thrive. 00:09:25.700 --> 00:09:29.320 I don't know why we try to put different communities 00:09:29.320 --> 00:09:31.759 stations. I think we should want all communities 00:09:31.759 --> 00:09:34.940 to thrive. And if that's the case, you build 00:09:34.940 --> 00:09:39.000 in systems for them to thrive. It actually helps 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:42.500 the social fabric of bad things not happening. 00:09:43.899 --> 00:09:46.940 I'm trying not to say things, create biases and 00:09:46.940 --> 00:09:49.139 the people who may hear this may not understand. 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.200 But if you create jobs in my community, there's 00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:56.230 less likely there's going to be. An underground 00:09:56.230 --> 00:09:59.789 economy. Correct. I mean, I can do this all day, 00:09:59.809 --> 00:10:03.929 right? If I know how to hire Ray Ray or Jamal, 00:10:04.049 --> 00:10:06.669 because I know what their tendencies are, their 00:10:06.669 --> 00:10:09.789 skill sets, because God blessed everybody the 00:10:09.789 --> 00:10:15.210 same way. And so if you could sell, I'm of the 00:10:15.210 --> 00:10:19.190 opinion, if you're gifted to rap and the way 00:10:19.190 --> 00:10:21.049 they rap these days, because when I grew up, 00:10:21.070 --> 00:10:27.330 rapping was like hotel. You know, now, you know, 00:10:28.009 --> 00:10:31.049 then you take up, and now, Eminem. Yeah, it's 00:10:31.049 --> 00:10:36.210 all that stuff. It's like, brrrr, you know. And 00:10:36.210 --> 00:10:40.750 he old. Right. You know, it happens. Hey, you 00:10:40.750 --> 00:10:43.289 said, I can't, like, what do you mean? Right? 00:10:43.350 --> 00:10:45.690 Petey Pablo and all those guys, right? And I'm 00:10:45.690 --> 00:10:50.139 still old. Enjoy your age. Right? But I say all 00:10:50.139 --> 00:10:53.220 that. I know how old you are because I know how 00:10:53.220 --> 00:10:55.840 old I am. So go ahead. Exactly. Exactly. I know 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:58.580 everybody and everything. Everything you just 00:10:58.580 --> 00:11:01.919 said is all in my wheelhouse. Yeah. So you think 00:11:01.919 --> 00:11:04.740 about that. So if a kid can memorize all that, 00:11:04.799 --> 00:11:08.399 why can't they be a lawyer? Absolutely. It's 00:11:08.399 --> 00:11:12.259 the same skill. It's just managing. You can remember 00:11:12.259 --> 00:11:15.899 code and statutes the same way you can remember 00:11:15.899 --> 00:11:20.250 rhymes. Oh, you bad. Right. So it's helping creating, 00:11:20.289 --> 00:11:23.610 taking the talents in our community and crafting 00:11:23.610 --> 00:11:27.649 them. If you can do graffiti, I'm convinced you 00:11:27.649 --> 00:11:30.990 can be a creative artist and CAD and all these 00:11:30.990 --> 00:11:37.190 other things. If you could sing, you can do voiceovers 00:11:37.190 --> 00:11:40.470 in movies and theater. If you can do these things. 00:11:40.529 --> 00:11:43.230 So I guess what I'm trying to say is when you 00:11:43.230 --> 00:11:47.539 look at community economic development. As assets, 00:11:47.779 --> 00:11:53.360 not just income, but I'm going to help this community 00:11:53.360 --> 00:11:57.019 be better off by bringing this in. Think about 00:11:57.019 --> 00:12:01.200 communal stuff. Think about if you make a candle. 00:12:02.539 --> 00:12:04.639 I've got a couple of candles in my office. You 00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:09.600 think about a candle may cost $5 or $10. To create 00:12:09.600 --> 00:12:14.480 a candle may cost pennies. It's just whack. But 00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:16.600 can you imagine teaching your kids how to do 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:19.500 that and to hustle that in the community and 00:12:19.500 --> 00:12:21.580 other communities? You teach them entrepreneurial 00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:23.720 skills. But if you were doing community economic 00:12:23.720 --> 00:12:27.139 development, you would create a place for people 00:12:27.139 --> 00:12:29.799 to be entrepreneurial, to build on your community 00:12:29.799 --> 00:12:32.519 because it's a social benefit to your business. 00:12:32.960 --> 00:12:37.639 So if I have a business, McDonald's, Hardee's, 00:12:37.639 --> 00:12:39.159 Wendy's or whatever, and I'm putting it in the 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:42.259 community. I'm thinking in my mind, I want to 00:12:42.259 --> 00:12:45.480 build a community center next door that will 00:12:45.480 --> 00:12:48.080 support entrepreneurship because that would be 00:12:48.080 --> 00:12:51.240 my workers. That will be my innovators. That 00:12:51.240 --> 00:12:53.919 will be my customers. I mean, I go on and on. 00:12:54.720 --> 00:12:58.000 She had workspaces. Right. You start thinking 00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:02.250 like that, you build community. But we have stopped 00:13:02.250 --> 00:13:05.129 thinking like that community act. We start thinking, 00:13:05.230 --> 00:13:08.330 I got mine, you got yours. But it's a way to 00:13:08.330 --> 00:13:11.509 have a collective. Because none of us have enough 00:13:11.509 --> 00:13:16.210 by ourselves anyway. So the collective allows 00:13:16.210 --> 00:13:20.049 for us to all thrive in a way that it's not competitive, 00:13:20.149 --> 00:13:24.409 but it's more community. So that's kind of how 00:13:24.409 --> 00:13:29.090 I think through this. It's not always. a economic 00:13:29.090 --> 00:13:32.289 win for people to think like that, but I do think 00:13:32.289 --> 00:13:37.629 it is a social economic win to do it. If you're 00:13:37.629 --> 00:13:39.909 enjoying the show as much as we love creating 00:13:39.909 --> 00:13:43.710 it, consider showing your support by buying us 00:13:43.710 --> 00:13:48.549 a cup of coffee. Visit buymeacoffee .com slash 00:13:48.549 --> 00:13:56.269 Nyesha Frey O. That's buymeacoffee .com forward 00:13:56.269 --> 00:14:01.940 slash. naisha fray oh all one word each cup is 00:14:01.940 --> 00:14:05.220 just five dollars and every single one helps 00:14:05.220 --> 00:14:08.799 us continue to produce develop and sustain the 00:14:08.799 --> 00:14:12.179 high quality content you've come to expect from 00:14:12.179 --> 00:14:15.360 questions you didn't ask thank you for your continued 00:14:15.360 --> 00:14:18.000 support and let's keep the conversation going 00:14:18.000 --> 00:14:21.139 so i'm gonna challenge you on that and i know 00:14:21.139 --> 00:14:24.279 that you can meet the challenge because i i just 00:14:24.279 --> 00:14:27.549 finished a series with dr paul fleming and i 00:14:27.549 --> 00:14:31.970 asked him this question what you just described 00:14:31.970 --> 00:14:35.149 in terms of community economic development the 00:14:35.149 --> 00:14:37.750 difference between that and what we consider 00:14:37.750 --> 00:14:41.169 now is economic development how you talked about 00:14:41.169 --> 00:14:45.230 translating talents into careers entrepreneurs 00:14:45.230 --> 00:14:50.750 so on and so forth you talked about social fabric 00:14:50.750 --> 00:14:54.889 and all this stuff is it more cost effective 00:14:57.929 --> 00:15:01.269 And you can talk about short versus long term. 00:15:01.350 --> 00:15:04.169 To continue on this path of what we could now 00:15:04.169 --> 00:15:06.669 consider transactional economic development as 00:15:06.669 --> 00:15:11.409 it is to shift to a more community economic development 00:15:11.409 --> 00:15:15.289 where we're having more of a transformational 00:15:15.289 --> 00:15:19.210 systems change in terms of developing communities. 00:15:19.450 --> 00:15:25.509 If you could talk about... The pros and cons, 00:15:25.789 --> 00:15:30.009 maybe the cost and benefit, maybe the ROI. And 00:15:30.009 --> 00:15:32.230 I know I asked like 10 questions. If you can 00:15:32.230 --> 00:15:34.509 just lean into that a little bit more in terms 00:15:34.509 --> 00:15:37.570 of, you know, as a business person, as an entrepreneur, 00:15:37.690 --> 00:15:43.490 as a successful serial entrepreneur. Are you 00:15:43.490 --> 00:15:48.769 are you missing out on money or are you playing 00:15:48.769 --> 00:15:51.769 a long game? How do you see that working out? 00:15:53.039 --> 00:15:58.220 So I believe that having a balanced approach 00:15:58.220 --> 00:16:06.080 to helping people be better off pays dividends 00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:10.519 in the long run. I believe that, like that's 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:14.460 a part of my DNA, right? That creating equitable 00:16:14.460 --> 00:16:18.240 benefits for people to have affordable, inclusionary, 00:16:18.240 --> 00:16:23.399 longstanding protections. Because I've been blessed 00:16:23.399 --> 00:16:27.620 to see both sides. Talk about it. Lean in. Right? 00:16:27.700 --> 00:16:32.019 So I know the skill sets that it takes to live 00:16:32.019 --> 00:16:34.659 in a community, to keep your head on a swivel, 00:16:34.799 --> 00:16:38.159 to make it paycheck to paycheck, to be able to 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:44.580 balance daycare, parents, and everything else 00:16:44.580 --> 00:16:47.080 that's a part of that process. And I've also 00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:50.440 seen people not have that, don't have those same 00:16:50.440 --> 00:16:53.289 skills. because they never rode a school bus 00:16:53.289 --> 00:16:56.269 and they never had to have a key, last key key 00:16:56.269 --> 00:16:57.850 because they were dropped off at school. And 00:16:57.850 --> 00:17:01.049 I've seen them need a computer, not a calculator, 00:17:01.169 --> 00:17:04.049 a computer and get it the same day. I've seen 00:17:04.049 --> 00:17:07.809 people get the resources they need quickly, which 00:17:07.809 --> 00:17:10.910 may not have taught them the skill sets to be. 00:17:11.690 --> 00:17:13.609 There's a difference between empathy and sympathy. 00:17:14.410 --> 00:17:17.009 Right. One is really experiencing it. And one 00:17:17.009 --> 00:17:19.930 is just like, you know, I can never be empathetic 00:17:19.930 --> 00:17:22.529 to some things that maybe a woman may feel. Right. 00:17:22.569 --> 00:17:24.849 I can be sympathetic, but I can never really 00:17:24.849 --> 00:17:27.269 be empathetic. Right. But I can be sympathetic 00:17:27.269 --> 00:17:30.750 enough to make sure that I provide inclusionary 00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:32.109 stuff. Let me tell you what I learned. I was 00:17:32.109 --> 00:17:34.150 on the board of the American Heart Association 00:17:34.150 --> 00:17:38.289 and told them I really don't want to be on the 00:17:38.289 --> 00:17:39.789 board. That's something I thought cancer killed 00:17:39.789 --> 00:17:44.339 people more than any group. That was. heart diseases 00:17:44.339 --> 00:17:47.900 killed more people than any other disease and 00:17:47.900 --> 00:17:51.339 i learned heart disease kills more people of 00:17:51.339 --> 00:17:56.539 color than any other disease and i learned heart 00:17:56.539 --> 00:18:02.180 disease killed more black women of cup i mean 00:18:02.180 --> 00:18:05.420 than any other disease right so then i started 00:18:05.420 --> 00:18:08.660 thinking around and then we created this environment 00:18:08.660 --> 00:18:13.109 where We had the sororities, the links, the mothers 00:18:13.109 --> 00:18:15.849 at churches, and we created a social economic 00:18:15.849 --> 00:18:19.890 group around educating these women around CPR 00:18:19.890 --> 00:18:22.670 and all these things, because we knew that they 00:18:22.670 --> 00:18:26.210 were also the backbone to their communities, 00:18:26.410 --> 00:18:29.049 including Indian women, Hispanic women, Black 00:18:29.049 --> 00:18:32.529 women around CPR and all these other things. 00:18:33.690 --> 00:18:35.910 So then I'm thinking about economic development 00:18:35.910 --> 00:18:40.460 on this. So if I know. And I'm not saying this 00:18:40.460 --> 00:18:44.059 is always true, but if I know in a housing community 00:18:44.059 --> 00:18:50.900 that has 400 homes or 400 apartments, that 300 00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:56.359 of them are single women of color or single women 00:18:56.359 --> 00:19:00.940 with children, right? Single parent women. And 00:19:00.940 --> 00:19:05.859 I know that heart attacks kill Black women more 00:19:05.859 --> 00:19:08.920 than... Why don't we have defibrillators in those 00:19:08.920 --> 00:19:15.640 communities? Listen. I'm just asking. Be a part 00:19:15.640 --> 00:19:19.059 of a community economic development tool that 00:19:19.059 --> 00:19:21.859 I would think that should be provided because 00:19:21.859 --> 00:19:26.940 it would help keep people alive. It would help 00:19:26.940 --> 00:19:29.440 keep families stable. But are they a strain on 00:19:29.440 --> 00:19:31.920 the economy? They're poor. They don't have a 00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:37.500 husband. But guess what? Would it be a strain 00:19:37.500 --> 00:19:40.819 on the economy if she dies and that child is 00:19:40.819 --> 00:19:42.859 raised without a mother and then they have to 00:19:42.859 --> 00:19:45.099 go into the system and they have to go through 00:19:45.099 --> 00:19:47.420 the mental health strains of being moved out 00:19:47.420 --> 00:19:50.079 and trying to bury a mother and having to go 00:19:50.079 --> 00:19:52.819 through a system of what could happen? Is that 00:19:52.819 --> 00:19:55.420 a strain? I think we need to start measuring 00:19:55.420 --> 00:19:58.640 the economic and non -economic processes between 00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:02.599 making decisions around recognizing if heart 00:20:02.599 --> 00:20:07.750 disease kills. more people women of color particularly 00:20:07.750 --> 00:20:11.349 black women than any other disease then i'm thinking 00:20:11.349 --> 00:20:18.150 wherever they convene live party pick a name 00:20:18.150 --> 00:20:23.089 we should have cpr training defibrillators and 00:20:23.089 --> 00:20:26.430 an understanding of how to make this work because 00:20:26.430 --> 00:20:29.309 if they are backbone of the community. And we 00:20:29.309 --> 00:20:31.750 can agree to that because they're making more 00:20:31.750 --> 00:20:34.150 money than we are making. They're in college 00:20:34.150 --> 00:20:37.809 more. They are disciplined. They are nurturing. 00:20:38.529 --> 00:20:41.849 And we know that women are, I mean, let's not 00:20:41.849 --> 00:20:43.930 play this game, right? We know there's Black 00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:46.390 girl magic. Why don't we want them to live longer 00:20:46.390 --> 00:20:49.049 and do better and help our community? So when 00:20:49.049 --> 00:20:51.289 I'm thinking about community economic development 00:20:51.289 --> 00:20:53.319 is what I was saying to you. And you're like, 00:20:53.380 --> 00:20:55.579 isn't that a cost to have a defibrillator? You're 00:20:55.579 --> 00:21:01.799 damn right it's a cost. Yes, exactly. Yep. With 00:21:01.799 --> 00:21:05.339 no life insurance. I was about to say, cheaper 00:21:05.339 --> 00:21:08.759 than the GoFundMe. You know, and then we can 00:21:08.759 --> 00:21:11.000 teach. But not only that, listen, Keisha, if 00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:12.819 we do that, then we're training the kids how 00:21:12.819 --> 00:21:16.920 to do CPR. And we train them how to do CPR, which 00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:19.390 could be. You know, we don't want to talk around 00:21:19.390 --> 00:21:22.390 that. We just want to put people in boxes in 00:21:22.390 --> 00:21:26.670 community and say, I did it. That's the transactional 00:21:26.670 --> 00:21:30.410 part of that bothers me. Because when I go back, 00:21:30.470 --> 00:21:34.029 so these poor people have, oh, you know, they're 00:21:34.029 --> 00:21:36.609 sick, but you're not providing a doctor. There's 00:21:36.609 --> 00:21:40.109 no urgent care downstairs. Shouldn't there be 00:21:40.109 --> 00:21:42.730 rotating doctors? You got a thousand people in 00:21:42.730 --> 00:21:46.390 here. I mean, like that kind of mentality of 00:21:46.390 --> 00:21:51.019 social. social engineering and community economic 00:21:51.019 --> 00:21:53.779 development to get to the positive outcomes of 00:21:53.779 --> 00:21:57.480 a labor force. Because remember, if you think 00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.460 through it, people are good for economic development 00:22:00.460 --> 00:22:07.519 because they provide labor. And what you're talking 00:22:07.519 --> 00:22:09.759 about is that manufactured adversity, right? 00:22:09.920 --> 00:22:12.400 So I shouldn't have to overcome that because 00:22:12.400 --> 00:22:16.559 the It should already be there, right? The urgent 00:22:16.559 --> 00:22:19.200 care should be there so things don't have to 00:22:19.200 --> 00:22:23.680 literally fester. You know, not only do we need 00:22:23.680 --> 00:22:27.039 to have a defibrillator, we also need to make 00:22:27.039 --> 00:22:31.160 sure that it works and it's where it's supposed 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:35.039 to be, right? One of my colleagues, Monique Starks, 00:22:35.180 --> 00:22:37.400 that's her line of work. She's a cardiologist, 00:22:37.500 --> 00:22:41.640 is identifying where these are, these devices 00:22:41.640 --> 00:22:45.480 are. And to make sure that we have more of them 00:22:45.480 --> 00:22:48.720 in black communities and rural communities and 00:22:48.720 --> 00:22:51.539 black and rural communities. Because for all 00:22:51.539 --> 00:22:53.700 the reasons that you're talking about, the places 00:22:53.700 --> 00:22:58.380 that have the lowest risk for heart disease is 00:22:58.380 --> 00:23:04.440 where you find more of these devices. So I want 00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.559 to even push it, push us a little bit further 00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.799 back because we're talking about. economic, community 00:23:09.799 --> 00:23:11.819 economic development. We're talking about the 00:23:11.819 --> 00:23:15.480 intersections of economic justice and health 00:23:15.480 --> 00:23:18.920 equity. And I'm so fortunate to be the host of 00:23:18.920 --> 00:23:21.039 this show because I get to learn and talk to 00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:23.140 all these amazing people. And I'm going to go 00:23:23.140 --> 00:23:26.660 again to my conversation with Dr. Fleming, where 00:23:26.660 --> 00:23:29.740 he talked about prevention thinking, root cause 00:23:29.740 --> 00:23:33.339 analysis, where he talked about taking a few 00:23:33.339 --> 00:23:36.839 steps back, right? So what would economic justice 00:23:37.559 --> 00:23:41.440 and health equity look like in a community where 00:23:41.440 --> 00:23:45.380 you didn't need defibrillators everywhere where 00:23:45.380 --> 00:23:50.059 you didn't need people trained with cpr because 00:23:50.059 --> 00:23:53.900 like you said for rod you're not just helping 00:23:53.900 --> 00:23:57.339 people survive you're helping them thrive so 00:23:57.339 --> 00:24:01.160 what would that look like in terms of you know 00:24:01.160 --> 00:24:05.460 how you create these communities develop housing 00:24:06.880 --> 00:24:09.319 And what other things, other things that are 00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:11.880 around? Well, see, I'm glad you brought that 00:24:11.880 --> 00:24:14.539 up. That's been my thing. You know, it's a two 00:24:14.539 --> 00:24:18.160 pronged approach. The first prong. So a lot of 00:24:18.160 --> 00:24:21.319 times when we talk about resiliency and especially 00:24:21.319 --> 00:24:24.000 when we talk about resiliency with black people, 00:24:24.019 --> 00:24:27.500 with children, it ends up being a stopgap measure. 00:24:27.640 --> 00:24:30.460 What do we need to get them now? How can we make 00:24:30.460 --> 00:24:35.599 them? more flexible or more hardy and resistant 00:24:35.599 --> 00:24:41.000 to the poor outcomes of adversity, right? That 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:43.799 is the quick, let's do this because this is the 00:24:43.799 --> 00:24:46.759 situation you're in now. Children are only children 00:24:46.759 --> 00:24:50.019 for a short period of time. They don't have time 00:24:50.019 --> 00:24:52.960 for long -term solutions. I get that, right? 00:24:53.579 --> 00:24:58.039 But we saw oftentimes those systemic responses 00:24:58.039 --> 00:25:01.269 stop there. They stop at that individual level, 00:25:01.410 --> 00:25:04.430 that immediate band -aid, and they never actually 00:25:04.430 --> 00:25:08.269 get to the root problems, right? They never actually 00:25:08.269 --> 00:25:12.109 get to what is causing the issues. So I think 00:25:12.109 --> 00:25:14.650 that we actually have to have that dual approach 00:25:14.650 --> 00:25:18.329 or the two -pronged approach to let's make sure 00:25:18.329 --> 00:25:22.049 people are taken care of now by having the defibrillators, 00:25:22.109 --> 00:25:26.990 but also making sure that their communities have 00:25:26.990 --> 00:25:30.829 what they need. So in the long term, they won't 00:25:30.829 --> 00:25:33.730 need them or they won't need them as much. So 00:25:33.730 --> 00:25:36.269 I don't think it's either or I think it's both 00:25:36.269 --> 00:25:39.329 and like we need to help people where they are 00:25:39.329 --> 00:25:43.369 right now, but also give them and not give them 00:25:43.369 --> 00:25:47.170 but make sure the resources are readily available 00:25:47.170 --> 00:25:53.369 and reachable so that they can be their healthiest 00:25:53.369 --> 00:25:57.769 selves. Where, you know, people have agency, 00:25:58.089 --> 00:26:01.410 right? So it's not that we're trying to make, 00:26:01.430 --> 00:26:03.769 I say we need to make all the decisions for folks, 00:26:03.890 --> 00:26:08.990 but people operate in the context that they live 00:26:08.990 --> 00:26:11.690 in, right? So all the things that Farad is talking 00:26:11.690 --> 00:26:15.549 about, if, you know, I'm in a housing community 00:26:15.549 --> 00:26:18.950 where I got to walk, you know, a quarter of a 00:26:18.950 --> 00:26:21.009 mile, half a mile just to get to the bus stop 00:26:21.009 --> 00:26:26.160 compared to other folks. who have in that same 00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:29.359 quarter mile, they have an urgent care. They 00:26:29.359 --> 00:26:32.460 have an urgent care, a doctor's office, a hospital, 00:26:32.559 --> 00:26:36.750 and specialty centers, specialty clinics. all 00:26:36.750 --> 00:26:40.190 in that same distance, it's a very different 00:26:40.190 --> 00:26:42.970 conversation we're talking about when we talk 00:26:42.970 --> 00:26:46.269 about primary care providers. You know, you complain, 00:26:46.430 --> 00:26:48.430 you hear people complain about folks going to 00:26:48.430 --> 00:26:51.309 the ER when they should just go, like, why are 00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.630 they doing any preventive care? And it's like, 00:26:53.670 --> 00:26:56.390 well, where are the primary care doctors, right? 00:26:56.690 --> 00:26:59.349 Who's going to watch these other kids while I 00:26:59.349 --> 00:27:03.420 take me, myself? to the primary care. You know, 00:27:03.440 --> 00:27:06.039 like these are things that we have to talk about. 00:27:06.140 --> 00:27:09.859 How long is the wait, right? So in order for 00:27:09.859 --> 00:27:12.180 me to get the test, it's six months. And these 00:27:12.180 --> 00:27:14.940 are some systemic failures that are not being 00:27:14.940 --> 00:27:18.099 addressed. That is a big issue across the board, 00:27:18.200 --> 00:27:22.839 but it's even more intense if you live in an 00:27:22.839 --> 00:27:26.400 area that does not have these things readily 00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.380 available. And we see, you know, there's a lot. 00:27:30.029 --> 00:27:33.349 that is talked about especially right now with 00:27:33.349 --> 00:27:37.650 the medicaid cuts that are happening now about 00:27:37.650 --> 00:27:41.289 closing hospitals and clinics in rural communities 00:27:41.289 --> 00:27:44.529 but these hospitals and clinics have been getting 00:27:44.529 --> 00:27:48.750 cut and broken down in predominantly black communities 00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.490 you can look at chicago you can look at los angeles 00:27:51.490 --> 00:27:57.029 for the last 50 years 60 years ever since ever 00:27:57.029 --> 00:27:59.529 since we had a medicare That was when you started 00:27:59.529 --> 00:28:03.750 seeing the hospitals and clinics in Black communities 00:28:03.750 --> 00:28:06.049 start getting shut down and getting shuttered. 00:28:06.049 --> 00:28:08.869 And we're still, we're dealing with those consequences. 00:28:09.130 --> 00:28:12.769 And which is why you have those maternal health 00:28:12.769 --> 00:28:16.769 deserts, while you have, we talk about food deserts, 00:28:16.769 --> 00:28:18.829 but we don't talk about the health deserts that 00:28:18.829 --> 00:28:23.319 are also in urban communities. Yeah, you know, 00:28:23.319 --> 00:28:26.119 and Keisha, one of the things, too, that we sometimes 00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:32.339 take for granted is the exposure of this. Like, 00:28:32.359 --> 00:28:34.940 I didn't know what, I mean, I didn't know what 00:28:34.940 --> 00:28:41.319 defibrillator was until I was in my 20s. And 00:28:41.319 --> 00:28:45.099 I think it's important that that social capital 00:28:45.099 --> 00:28:49.880 of understanding community stuff is important. 00:28:51.500 --> 00:28:54.240 I was listening to you talk, and I just was sitting 00:28:54.240 --> 00:28:56.000 there going, you know what? Some people don't 00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:58.279 even know what a defibrillator is or maternal 00:28:58.279 --> 00:29:02.359 health is and why that's important. So the more 00:29:02.359 --> 00:29:07.279 we can expose people to this, I think the more 00:29:07.279 --> 00:29:10.819 we can provide a greater understanding for the 00:29:10.819 --> 00:29:13.319 next generation. Because the generation of wealth 00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:17.319 is just not about income. Absolutely. You know, 00:29:17.460 --> 00:29:24.000 it's social capital. it's economic capital and 00:29:24.000 --> 00:29:29.140 it's physical capital and if you've got those 00:29:29.140 --> 00:29:33.160 three you've got the ingredients for building 00:29:33.160 --> 00:29:39.079 wealth because sometimes how many of us get jobs 00:29:39.079 --> 00:29:43.119 because of who we know oh most definitely yes 00:29:43.119 --> 00:29:47.160 exactly and so to know who you know sometimes 00:29:47.160 --> 00:29:50.269 having the language is important Sometimes you 00:29:50.269 --> 00:29:52.970 don't get the job because of who you know. Anyway, 00:29:52.970 --> 00:29:59.210 I'm sorry. And so your ability to have a command 00:29:59.210 --> 00:30:03.509 on, you know, my wife was telling me when she's 00:30:03.509 --> 00:30:06.750 been an entrepreneur for like 35 years, she told 00:30:06.750 --> 00:30:08.930 me like there's two pages that she reads in the 00:30:08.930 --> 00:30:13.529 paper. It's the sports section and the business 00:30:13.529 --> 00:30:16.549 section. She said two reasons. One, they're always 00:30:16.549 --> 00:30:22.160 factual. and two that's what men talk about and 00:30:22.160 --> 00:30:25.900 and she's as an entrepreneur she's trying to 00:30:25.900 --> 00:30:28.119 build out understanding those things are important 00:30:28.119 --> 00:30:32.519 to be in conversations and so being able to train 00:30:32.519 --> 00:30:34.460 you know people say well those kids didn't learn 00:30:34.460 --> 00:30:37.180 it at the dinner table or lunch table the breakfast 00:30:37.180 --> 00:30:39.660 table let's let's start teaching them that right 00:30:39.660 --> 00:30:43.720 so social capital does have its own baseline 00:30:43.720 --> 00:30:46.079 that we could also be able to help people to 00:30:46.079 --> 00:30:48.920 be better off. And so I'm thinking around all 00:30:48.920 --> 00:30:52.559 the things that we take advantage of that we 00:30:52.559 --> 00:30:55.180 don't recognize builds our credibility and our 00:30:55.180 --> 00:31:00.039 ability to be fluid in community. And same skill 00:31:00.039 --> 00:31:02.680 sets need to be taught in a community because 00:31:02.680 --> 00:31:05.640 there's just a lack of awareness. Well, you know, 00:31:05.660 --> 00:31:09.960 I would even say it's not just the lack of awareness. 00:31:11.019 --> 00:31:14.680 but also the practical aspects of how to use 00:31:14.680 --> 00:31:18.220 what when. And so even as we talk about health 00:31:18.220 --> 00:31:22.259 literacy, financial literacy, it's not enough 00:31:22.259 --> 00:31:27.579 like at your Sunday service and it's heart disease 00:31:27.579 --> 00:31:31.660 awareness, right? And you get those fast facts, 00:31:31.880 --> 00:31:36.109 right? That Black folks in their mid -40s. are 00:31:36.109 --> 00:31:38.789 twice as likely to die from their first heart 00:31:38.789 --> 00:31:43.049 disease or heart incidence. Black people in their 00:31:43.049 --> 00:31:46.250 mid -40s are two to three times more likely to 00:31:46.250 --> 00:31:48.869 die from a heart attack, their first heart attack, 00:31:49.069 --> 00:31:52.309 than their white counterparts. It's one thing 00:31:52.309 --> 00:31:54.890 to get that information in the Sunday service 00:31:54.890 --> 00:32:02.019 or in the schedule. What do you call this? It's 00:32:02.019 --> 00:32:04.259 one thing to get that information in the Sunday 00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:08.299 program, but it's something else that when you 00:32:08.299 --> 00:32:12.279 have, we're at a church where every third Sunday 00:32:12.279 --> 00:32:16.480 they have blood pressure checks or they have 00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:19.400 a, like you may know that you're supposed to. 00:32:20.009 --> 00:32:21.529 watch your blood pressure, but you don't know 00:32:21.529 --> 00:32:23.869 exactly what it is and I don't know how to do 00:32:23.869 --> 00:32:25.890 it. So now all of a sudden I know how to check 00:32:25.890 --> 00:32:28.490 my blood pressure and everyone else's. So it's 00:32:28.490 --> 00:32:31.029 one thing to know that blood pressure is important, 00:32:31.309 --> 00:32:34.049 but it's something very different to know how 00:32:34.049 --> 00:32:37.170 to check your blood pressure, to know what is 00:32:37.170 --> 00:32:40.970 high, what to do, where to go and when to go. 00:32:41.210 --> 00:32:44.750 And the same thing can be said about economic 00:32:44.750 --> 00:32:49.839 health as well. you know knowing what to use 00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:52.980 when is important but have being able to have 00:32:52.980 --> 00:32:55.279 that practical knowledge to actually have the 00:32:55.279 --> 00:32:57.819 money so you can test it out and make some mistakes 00:32:57.819 --> 00:33:00.200 and recover from it and know how to recover from 00:33:00.200 --> 00:33:02.759 the mistakes. You know, that's really all part 00:33:02.759 --> 00:33:06.319 of that social capital that is really important. 00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.279 That is part of that generational wealth. Because 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:11.539 as you said, generational wealth isn't just about 00:33:11.539 --> 00:33:14.220 the money you pass down. It's important. But 00:33:14.220 --> 00:33:17.500 it's also about the social capital that you pass 00:33:17.500 --> 00:33:19.940 down, the fact that you can call. like Uncle 00:33:19.940 --> 00:33:23.680 Daddy, Judge Uncle Daddy, and say, can you, you 00:33:23.680 --> 00:33:27.099 know, get my baby a job? I got a speeding ticket. 00:33:27.099 --> 00:33:29.500 You tell me what I need to do, right? Exactly. 00:33:29.500 --> 00:33:33.059 I got a speeding ticket. Or, you know, or I was 00:33:33.059 --> 00:33:34.759 at a party I shouldn't have been at. Like all 00:33:34.759 --> 00:33:37.079 those different things that can happen as a teenager. 00:33:38.000 --> 00:33:41.839 Those are the social intergenerational knowledge 00:33:41.839 --> 00:33:46.039 and social capital. that comes with it and it's 00:33:46.039 --> 00:33:48.299 and i'm still not comfortable with my own social 00:33:48.299 --> 00:33:50.920 capital you know i've been working at duke for 00:33:50.920 --> 00:33:54.380 nine years i'm still uncomfortable calling a 00:33:54.380 --> 00:33:58.039 physician that i know personally to say hey can 00:33:58.039 --> 00:34:00.819 you uh take another look at this right so this 00:34:00.819 --> 00:34:03.079 is something i have to get comfortable with because 00:34:03.079 --> 00:34:06.359 i need my daughters to be very comfortable calling 00:34:06.359 --> 00:34:09.940 on their network for favors right because that's 00:34:09.940 --> 00:34:13.219 that's just part of of wealth and, and having 00:34:13.219 --> 00:34:15.460 that access. Like that's really, that's why I 00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:17.860 got the big dollar education so that I would 00:34:17.860 --> 00:34:19.860 have access to these circles and I need to use 00:34:19.860 --> 00:34:22.920 them better. That's episode two of No Health, 00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:26.119 No Wealth. I'm Nyesha Frey. Thank you for listening. 00:34:26.400 --> 00:34:29.360 Be sure to tune in for the next episode as we 00:34:29.360 --> 00:34:32.659 build on this dialogue about money, equity, and 00:34:32.659 --> 00:34:36.079 health. Follow or subscribe now so you don't 00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:36.420 miss it.