WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.899 Hello, my name is Baron J. Damon. I'm your certified 00:00:02.899 --> 00:00:05.780 philanthropic coach. We support individuals and 00:00:05.780 --> 00:00:08.779 businesses in crafting strategic plans for their 00:00:08.779 --> 00:00:11.339 charitable giving. Confused about where you want 00:00:11.339 --> 00:00:13.419 to start? Join me for a complimentary session 00:00:13.419 --> 00:00:16.539 today to explore your passions and craft a plan 00:00:16.539 --> 00:00:19.199 for meaningful impact. Let's make a difference 00:00:19.199 --> 00:00:37.390 together. Go to www .businessoflifecc .com. Welcome 00:00:37.390 --> 00:00:40.689 to Questions You Didn't Ask. I'm your host, Nyesha 00:00:40.689 --> 00:00:45.049 Frank. This season is called No Health, No Wealth. 00:00:45.350 --> 00:00:49.109 Economic justice and health equity. Here's the 00:00:49.109 --> 00:00:52.570 truth. Health isn't just medical care. It's shaped 00:00:52.570 --> 00:00:55.770 by income, housing, transportation, and place. 00:00:56.130 --> 00:00:59.390 If you don't have a job that pays enough, if 00:00:59.390 --> 00:01:02.109 rent takes half your paycheck, if the nearest 00:01:02.109 --> 00:01:05.599 grocery store is miles away, you're already on 00:01:05.599 --> 00:01:09.640 shaky ground. Your health is already on the line. 00:01:10.140 --> 00:01:13.260 Let me share some facts that underscore why this 00:01:13.260 --> 00:01:16.599 matters. The median wealth of a Black household 00:01:16.599 --> 00:01:22.879 was around $44 ,900 in 2022. Just a fraction 00:01:22.879 --> 00:01:27.920 of the median White household's $285 ,000, according 00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:31.439 to the Federal Reserve's Survey of Consumer Finances. 00:01:32.169 --> 00:01:37.409 That's over six times less in wealth. Wealth 00:01:37.409 --> 00:01:40.349 isn't just savings, it's assets minus debts. 00:01:40.730 --> 00:01:43.930 For Black families, it's often housing and very 00:01:43.930 --> 00:01:47.290 little else. And where you live, it's an even 00:01:47.290 --> 00:01:50.090 stronger predictor of how long you live than 00:01:50.090 --> 00:01:54.049 genetics. In his book, The Death Gap, Dr. David 00:01:54.049 --> 00:01:57.230 Ansell shows that zip codes in the same city 00:01:57.230 --> 00:02:00.489 can have life expectations that differ by 20 00:02:00.489 --> 00:02:04.269 to 30 years. In Chicago, for example, residents 00:02:04.269 --> 00:02:06.870 of the affluent Streetville neighborhood live 00:02:06.870 --> 00:02:10.469 to be around 90 years old, while just a few miles 00:02:10.469 --> 00:02:14.669 away in Englewood, life expectancy drops to 60 00:02:14.669 --> 00:02:17.979 years. The same pattern shows up across the country, 00:02:18.159 --> 00:02:21.000 whether we're talking about some town in Texas, 00:02:21.340 --> 00:02:24.199 Durham and Sea, or right here in my hometown 00:02:24.199 --> 00:02:27.900 of Raleigh, North Carolina, where people in wealthier 00:02:27.900 --> 00:02:30.699 neighborhoods with good schools, clean air, and 00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:33.680 easy access to doctors and grocery stores live 00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.280 much longer than people in under -resourced, 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:40.759 historically Black and brown communities. This 00:02:40.759 --> 00:02:43.120 brings us to what's often called the Black Tax. 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.800 And the poverty tax. Put simply, these are extra 00:02:47.800 --> 00:02:51.400 costs people face simply because of their race 00:02:51.400 --> 00:02:55.620 or because they are poor. The black tax is the 00:02:55.620 --> 00:02:58.960 extra cost of being black. In the United States, 00:02:59.039 --> 00:03:02.180 it can mean paying more for basic goods and services 00:03:02.180 --> 00:03:05.280 in black neighborhoods, facing higher interest 00:03:05.280 --> 00:03:08.680 rates or insurance premiums, or being shut out 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:12.009 of wealth building opportunities. Writers like 00:03:12.009 --> 00:03:15.090 Sean Rochester have described it as the financial 00:03:15.090 --> 00:03:17.729 weight of discrimination on Black Americans, 00:03:17.969 --> 00:03:22.129 while Andrew W. Carl has documented how unfair 00:03:22.129 --> 00:03:25.789 tax systems stripped wealth from Black property 00:03:25.789 --> 00:03:29.610 owners. And it's not just here. Around the world, 00:03:29.789 --> 00:03:33.289 including in South Africa, the phrase Black tax 00:03:33.289 --> 00:03:36.780 also describes how Black professionals often 00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:39.919 support extended families because of longstanding 00:03:39.919 --> 00:03:44.340 inequalities. Now, the poverty tax describes 00:03:44.340 --> 00:03:48.659 a similar burden. Poor people often end up paying 00:03:48.659 --> 00:03:52.680 more just to live. For example, check cashing 00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.580 services charge high fees when families can't 00:03:55.580 --> 00:03:58.919 access banks. Corner store groceries cost more 00:03:58.919 --> 00:04:02.780 than supermarkets. Predatory lenders overcharge 00:04:02.780 --> 00:04:06.590 with sky -high interest. Even traditional banks 00:04:06.590 --> 00:04:09.370 add to the burden. According to the Consumer 00:04:09.370 --> 00:04:14.009 Financial Protection Bureau, in 2022, banks collected 00:04:14.009 --> 00:04:18.250 $7 .7 billion in overdraft and non -sufficient 00:04:18.250 --> 00:04:22.110 fund fees, fees that are overwhelmingly affect 00:04:22.110 --> 00:04:26.050 those with low balances. Meanwhile, people who 00:04:26.050 --> 00:04:29.230 maintain higher balances or have premium accounts 00:04:29.230 --> 00:04:32.629 enjoy free checking, better interest rates, and 00:04:32.629 --> 00:04:36.160 other perks. Banks often justify these policies 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:38.660 by arguing that such fees cover their operational 00:04:38.660 --> 00:04:41.720 costs or offset the risk of covering short term 00:04:41.720 --> 00:04:44.439 shortages. But as one industry critic put it, 00:04:44.480 --> 00:04:47.180 well, that would be me. This practice is like 00:04:47.180 --> 00:04:50.379 trying to squeeze water out of a rock. It assumes 00:04:50.379 --> 00:04:53.139 the poorest can magically pay for what they can't 00:04:53.139 --> 00:04:55.699 afford, and it continues to extract from those 00:04:55.699 --> 00:04:59.399 already struggling. These practices run directly 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:02.620 counter to the ideals of health equity and economic 00:05:02.620 --> 00:05:06.449 justice. Charging more for being poor or for 00:05:06.449 --> 00:05:09.209 balancing a checkbook poorly doesn't level the 00:05:09.209 --> 00:05:12.829 playing field. It tilts it further. Being poor 00:05:12.829 --> 00:05:15.910 shouldn't cost more. It should cost less if we 00:05:15.910 --> 00:05:18.410 are about helping people improve their current 00:05:18.410 --> 00:05:21.649 financial situation and future to build a stronger 00:05:21.649 --> 00:05:25.870 economy and society for everyone. So when we 00:05:25.870 --> 00:05:28.189 say health equity, we mean that every person, 00:05:28.209 --> 00:05:31.490 regardless of race, zip code, or income, has 00:05:31.490 --> 00:05:34.050 a fair opportunity to live their healthiest life. 00:05:34.970 --> 00:05:38.149 And economic justice means that ensuring communities 00:05:38.149 --> 00:05:41.629 have the resources, jobs, capital, infrastructure 00:05:41.629 --> 00:05:45.709 to make that possible. So I'm honored to be joined 00:05:45.709 --> 00:05:48.509 by two guests who bring extraordinary insight 00:05:48.509 --> 00:05:51.209 and real -world impact to this conversation. 00:05:51.709 --> 00:05:55.680 Dr. Keisha Bentley Edwards. Associate Professor 00:05:55.680 --> 00:05:59.339 at Duke University School of Medicine, Co -Director 00:05:59.339 --> 00:06:03.319 of the CTSI Center for Equity and Research, and 00:06:03.319 --> 00:06:06.060 Associate Director of Research at the Samuel 00:06:06.060 --> 00:06:10.180 Dubois Cook Center on Social Equity. Her research 00:06:10.180 --> 00:06:13.319 examines how structural racism, gender, and culture 00:06:13.319 --> 00:06:16.579 shape health and education outcomes. And her 00:06:16.579 --> 00:06:19.959 work is supported by NIH and the Robert Wood 00:06:19.959 --> 00:06:25.240 Johnson Foundation. And second, Farhad Ali, a 00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:28.779 dynamic executive investor and board leader with 00:06:28.779 --> 00:06:31.860 more than 30 years of experience advancing economic 00:06:31.860 --> 00:06:35.639 mobility and wealth equity. He has led organizations 00:06:35.639 --> 00:06:38.839 across finance, higher education, and economic 00:06:38.839 --> 00:06:42.160 development, and his work has directly impacted 00:06:42.160 --> 00:06:45.480 Black and Latino communities by driving investment, 00:06:45.800 --> 00:06:49.350 job creation, and leadership development. He 00:06:49.350 --> 00:06:52.189 also serves on the boards of two nationally acclaimed 00:06:52.189 --> 00:06:54.930 community development financial institutions, 00:06:55.209 --> 00:06:59.670 better known as CDFIs. These are specialized 00:06:59.670 --> 00:07:03.110 organizations that provide capital and financial 00:07:03.110 --> 00:07:07.189 services to underserved communities. Each institution 00:07:07.189 --> 00:07:11.350 has over $1 billion in assets and has expanded 00:07:11.350 --> 00:07:14.209 its geographic footprint and economic impact 00:07:14.209 --> 00:07:17.740 beyond North Carolina. setting the standard for 00:07:17.740 --> 00:07:20.300 advancing economic mobility and wealth equity. 00:07:21.180 --> 00:07:24.300 Together in this conversation, we will dig into 00:07:24.300 --> 00:07:27.740 why so many full -time workers fall short of 00:07:27.740 --> 00:07:31.560 basic needs, how economic stress becomes health 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.379 stress in communities of color, the structural 00:07:35.379 --> 00:07:38.779 barriers Black entrepreneurs face today, and 00:07:38.779 --> 00:07:41.439 real -world solutions from equitable investment 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:45.709 to community -led economic justice. Let's dive 00:07:45.709 --> 00:07:49.069 in. So thank you once again for joining me. Today 00:07:49.069 --> 00:07:52.569 is a special, special day where we get to discuss 00:07:52.569 --> 00:07:56.310 this important topic of the intersection between 00:07:56.310 --> 00:07:59.850 health equity and economic justice. But before 00:07:59.850 --> 00:08:02.850 we get into it, I always like to start the conversation 00:08:02.850 --> 00:08:05.269 with a very straightforward question for each 00:08:05.269 --> 00:08:08.269 of my guests. And Keisha, since I do believe 00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:10.009 in ladies first, we're going to start with you. 00:08:10.750 --> 00:08:13.470 Why did you agree to join me in this discussion 00:08:13.470 --> 00:08:17.410 on questions you didn't ask? Well, first off, 00:08:17.529 --> 00:08:22.629 I'm a fan. So I think you're awesome. So you 00:08:22.629 --> 00:08:27.569 had me at hello. But when it comes to the topic, 00:08:27.810 --> 00:08:31.540 you know, I think. we put ourselves in silos, 00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:35.639 like, okay, my health is here. My finances are 00:08:35.639 --> 00:08:38.500 somewhere else and that they're not related unless 00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:41.679 I have a hospital bill, but not really thinking 00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.360 about all the things that happened before. So 00:08:44.360 --> 00:08:47.899 I really appreciate this opportunity to talk 00:08:47.899 --> 00:08:52.440 about us as whole people, you know? So thank 00:08:52.440 --> 00:08:54.960 you. And that's what you do best. And another 00:08:54.960 --> 00:09:00.320 reason why I'm a fan too, Keisha. But speaking 00:09:00.320 --> 00:09:04.600 of being fans, Farad, I never, ever, you know, 00:09:04.639 --> 00:09:07.500 shy away from the opportunity to tell you and 00:09:07.500 --> 00:09:10.480 other people that I'm your fan. But why did you 00:09:10.480 --> 00:09:12.320 agree to join me in this discussion on questions 00:09:12.320 --> 00:09:15.399 you didn't ask? Because you asked. I mean, I 00:09:15.399 --> 00:09:19.279 don't know how to tell you. You know, you asked. 00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:24.100 I think it's important that we. um understand 00:09:24.100 --> 00:09:27.340 that whatever skills that we were given or environments 00:09:27.340 --> 00:09:30.879 or experiences that we've had as a people that 00:09:30.879 --> 00:09:33.919 we look at those as blessings and that we take 00:09:33.919 --> 00:09:38.100 those in the best way to to be better in this 00:09:38.100 --> 00:09:40.559 world was to give those blessings away and so 00:09:40.559 --> 00:09:44.039 when i was honored when you asked honestly because 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:47.980 i'm to be on this panel was um as you know i 00:09:47.980 --> 00:09:51.500 was like huh you sure they smart i'm a practitioner 00:09:53.539 --> 00:09:55.460 You're a lot of voice that's going to be important, 00:09:55.659 --> 00:09:58.320 but I do believe that it's important that whatever 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:01.679 we have, that we should be lavishly blessing 00:10:01.679 --> 00:10:04.659 others with whatever we have. And that if knowledge 00:10:04.659 --> 00:10:07.740 is one of those things or awareness and I can 00:10:07.740 --> 00:10:10.919 be a part of that, I want to, I just want to 00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:15.080 do it. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. 00:10:15.220 --> 00:10:17.279 You know, one of the reasons why I asked that 00:10:17.279 --> 00:10:19.600 question is because it does help kind of flesh 00:10:19.600 --> 00:10:21.950 out. for our listeners like why did these people 00:10:21.950 --> 00:10:24.029 decide to come together to talk about this question 00:10:24.029 --> 00:10:27.490 but also to encourage people once again if you 00:10:27.490 --> 00:10:31.990 haven't heard the theme you know just ask put 00:10:31.990 --> 00:10:34.629 yourself out there you never know what might 00:10:34.629 --> 00:10:37.350 come from just asking the question and of course 00:10:37.350 --> 00:10:39.730 the show is called questions you didn't ask you 00:10:39.730 --> 00:10:41.809 you know like my mama used to say closed mouths 00:10:41.809 --> 00:10:45.169 don't get fed right so we are in the practice 00:10:45.169 --> 00:10:49.029 of asking asking our social circle our network 00:10:49.580 --> 00:10:53.159 And so on. Now, to continue the conversation 00:10:53.159 --> 00:10:56.320 about, you know, how we just need to show up, 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:58.919 you know, ask the questions. Don't keep your 00:10:58.919 --> 00:11:01.940 mouth closed. Let's have the conversation. I 00:11:01.940 --> 00:11:04.259 want to start with you, Keisha. What does health 00:11:04.259 --> 00:11:07.299 equity mean to you and how does it show up in 00:11:07.299 --> 00:11:13.240 your work every day? Well, look, right now, health 00:11:13.240 --> 00:11:17.740 equity is one of those dangerous phrases in today's 00:11:17.740 --> 00:11:20.980 political environment. But it's always been, 00:11:21.120 --> 00:11:24.059 I wouldn't quite call it dangerous work, but 00:11:24.059 --> 00:11:28.159 it's always been work that was somewhat risky. 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:31.879 And the reason why I bring up the risk of talking 00:11:31.879 --> 00:11:35.220 about health equity is that if you're talking 00:11:35.220 --> 00:11:41.070 about making sure that everyone has access, to 00:11:41.070 --> 00:11:45.750 good health, well -being, and good health care, 00:11:46.169 --> 00:11:50.330 it implies that there are other people who have 00:11:50.330 --> 00:11:54.129 it and some folks who don't. And oftentimes the 00:11:54.129 --> 00:11:56.870 people who have open access don't want to talk 00:11:56.870 --> 00:12:01.750 about how easy it is to get care and resources 00:12:01.750 --> 00:12:06.309 and communities you can walk in. So this is all 00:12:06.309 --> 00:12:10.139 about the ways that we live our lives. so that 00:12:10.139 --> 00:12:13.500 we can be the healthiest version of ourselves. 00:12:14.879 --> 00:12:17.340 And so that's really, when you talk about health 00:12:17.340 --> 00:12:20.559 equity, you have to talk about who has access 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:24.580 and who doesn't. And you have built an illustrious 00:12:24.580 --> 00:12:29.120 career around studying health equity and not 00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:32.539 just studying it, but promoting like how it can 00:12:32.539 --> 00:12:36.100 be done in real life, right? And how it can be 00:12:36.100 --> 00:12:39.700 done to help improve the lives of others. Of 00:12:39.700 --> 00:12:42.480 course, we talked about, you know, your bio and 00:12:42.480 --> 00:12:44.539 all that other wonderful stuff. But how would 00:12:44.539 --> 00:12:47.159 you say that it shows up in your work? Like, 00:12:47.220 --> 00:12:49.559 obviously, you focus on this, but what are some 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:51.379 of the focuses that you're that you're drilling 00:12:51.379 --> 00:12:54.980 down on now? You know, I really think about, 00:12:54.980 --> 00:12:59.159 you know, my place where I start my conversations 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:02.259 about health equity is really with my family. 00:13:02.679 --> 00:13:06.759 Although I do work with numbers a lot. My motivation 00:13:06.759 --> 00:13:09.559 came from seeing the people in my life, family 00:13:09.559 --> 00:13:13.679 members, community members that were dealing 00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:17.399 with diabetes, foot amputations, cardiovascular 00:13:17.399 --> 00:13:22.259 disease at a very young age. Infant mortality 00:13:22.259 --> 00:13:26.820 was really high. Like a lot of babies died in 00:13:26.820 --> 00:13:30.620 my family when I was a kid. And I thought that 00:13:30.620 --> 00:13:35.000 was normal. And so the ways that. Thinking about 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:39.080 health equity shows up for me in my work is I 00:13:39.080 --> 00:13:41.139 think about, well, what did my family members 00:13:41.139 --> 00:13:44.720 need so that things could be better? What was 00:13:44.720 --> 00:13:47.539 missing, especially as I knew more about what 00:13:47.539 --> 00:13:51.700 was available more broadly, I started realizing 00:13:51.700 --> 00:13:55.000 where the gaps were in my own communities. And 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:59.659 it wasn't all behavioral and thinking like, what 00:13:59.659 --> 00:14:04.299 are the systems that are? preventing folks from 00:14:04.299 --> 00:14:08.419 being as healthy as they could be, because we 00:14:08.419 --> 00:14:13.220 have to engage with our environment. And so you 00:14:13.220 --> 00:14:16.059 want folks to walk? Well, do they have a sidewalk? 00:14:16.759 --> 00:14:19.759 Do they have to walk in the street, right? So, 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:23.039 you know, there's things that I think about on 00:14:23.039 --> 00:14:26.629 more practical. Because I think about what would 00:14:26.629 --> 00:14:29.590 I need to tell my own family members and my community 00:14:29.590 --> 00:14:32.710 members about being healthier and what they need. 00:14:32.769 --> 00:14:35.970 And I make sure that when I'm in the room where 00:14:35.970 --> 00:14:39.070 decisions are made, that I share that information. 00:14:39.789 --> 00:14:43.809 I can resonate with that on so many levels. Farad, 00:14:43.809 --> 00:14:46.429 I'd love to hear, you know, from your perspective, 00:14:46.669 --> 00:14:49.590 what does health equity mean to you and how is 00:14:49.590 --> 00:14:51.669 it showing up in the work that you do every day? 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:55.500 You know, I was fortunate enough to work with 00:14:55.500 --> 00:15:00.259 a lady named Dr. Andrea L. Harris for a number 00:15:00.259 --> 00:15:04.379 of years. And that time was really important 00:15:04.379 --> 00:15:07.139 to me because we worked at the Institute of Minority 00:15:07.139 --> 00:15:09.580 Economic Development. And one of the things that 00:15:09.580 --> 00:15:11.960 we did, we participated in the health smoking 00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:16.779 cessation study around the impacts on the Black 00:15:16.779 --> 00:15:19.139 communities and actually minority communities 00:15:19.139 --> 00:15:22.799 in whole. And we came up with a saying, you know, 00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:27.220 no health, no wealth. We really believe that 00:15:27.220 --> 00:15:30.519 good health enables future earning capacity. 00:15:31.440 --> 00:15:33.419 You know, when you have good health, you have 00:15:33.419 --> 00:15:37.179 an opportunity to earn more money. You got a 00:15:37.179 --> 00:15:39.720 chance to see your investments grow. You get 00:15:39.720 --> 00:15:42.820 a chance to see some asset accumulation. You 00:15:42.820 --> 00:15:44.899 know, when you have poor health, it just reduces 00:15:44.899 --> 00:15:48.289 your ability to work. You know, you heard the 00:15:48.289 --> 00:15:50.830 doctor talk around increasing medicines in her 00:15:50.830 --> 00:15:54.490 family. You know, the financial instability and 00:15:54.490 --> 00:15:56.490 less generational wealth doesn't allow for you 00:15:56.490 --> 00:15:59.990 to accumulate and pass on. Again, you know, we 00:15:59.990 --> 00:16:02.789 can't take any of this with us. So if your inability 00:16:02.789 --> 00:16:04.990 to have health is going to be there, and especially 00:16:04.990 --> 00:16:08.769 when you talk about the difference between acute 00:16:08.769 --> 00:16:12.649 conditions and chronic conditions. We have chronic 00:16:12.649 --> 00:16:15.809 conditions. It actually disrupts our employment. 00:16:16.360 --> 00:16:19.679 it decreases our productivity and just it takes 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.779 away from what we can do so that's that's a big 00:16:22.779 --> 00:16:25.559 thing for me for health and wealth but on the 00:16:25.559 --> 00:16:28.139 other side right that's the you know you look 00:16:28.139 --> 00:16:30.940 at that from that lens but if you look at it 00:16:30.940 --> 00:16:33.120 from the other people the other lens which is 00:16:33.120 --> 00:16:37.600 no wealth no health right you start looking around 00:16:37.600 --> 00:16:40.899 how wealth gives you the access to have you know 00:16:40.899 --> 00:16:45.279 healthier lifestyle quiet but you do have the 00:16:45.279 --> 00:16:48.559 ability to have that it also allows for you to 00:16:48.559 --> 00:16:51.120 shop and get the groceries and nutrition that 00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:53.879 you need it also allows you to be able to go 00:16:53.879 --> 00:16:55.899 to urgent care or the hospital or the emergency 00:16:55.899 --> 00:16:58.820 room without worrying about bills you know it 00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:02.539 allows you to so someone can tell you hey you 00:17:02.539 --> 00:17:04.720 know you got the sugar and then you can take 00:17:04.720 --> 00:17:06.539 the sugar out your diet you know somebody can 00:17:06.539 --> 00:17:07.880 go in your refrigerator and throw it away and 00:17:07.880 --> 00:17:09.539 you won't lose your mind you'll be like okay 00:17:09.539 --> 00:17:11.079 well then we just gotta go buy different types 00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:14.789 of groceries so I think being aware and being 00:17:14.789 --> 00:17:18.789 able to have wealth gives you the option to have 00:17:18.789 --> 00:17:22.490 a healthier lifestyle in a better way. So if 00:17:22.490 --> 00:17:25.690 we're talking about building generational wealth 00:17:25.690 --> 00:17:28.190 in the community that has not had an opportunity 00:17:28.190 --> 00:17:30.750 to build wealth because we've been really building 00:17:30.750 --> 00:17:34.950 America over these number of years, and that's 00:17:34.950 --> 00:17:37.869 a whole kind of conversation, then you don't 00:17:37.869 --> 00:17:42.990 get a chance to participate in wealth. No health, 00:17:43.029 --> 00:17:45.069 no wealth, you know, and with wealth, you can 00:17:45.069 --> 00:17:48.890 have better health. If you're enjoying the show 00:17:48.890 --> 00:17:52.109 as much as we love creating it, consider showing 00:17:52.109 --> 00:17:56.109 your support by buying us a cup of coffee. Visit 00:17:56.109 --> 00:18:02.109 buymeacoffee .com slash Nyesha Frey O. That's 00:18:02.109 --> 00:18:09.329 buymeacoffee .com forward slash Nyesha Frey O. 00:18:09.529 --> 00:18:14.720 All one word. Each cup is just $5 and every single 00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.380 one helps us continue to produce, develop, and 00:18:18.380 --> 00:18:21.440 sustain the high quality content you've come 00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:24.539 to expect from questions you didn't ask. Thank 00:18:24.539 --> 00:18:27.420 you for your continued support and let's keep 00:18:27.420 --> 00:18:30.079 the conversation going. That's understandable. 00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:32.799 You know, you just made me think about something 00:18:32.799 --> 00:18:36.670 I used to teach in my classes. And I would talk 00:18:36.670 --> 00:18:39.710 about even the way we talk about health is cultural, 00:18:39.869 --> 00:18:43.750 but it's also on that wealth side, right? So 00:18:43.750 --> 00:18:46.490 if I ask someone, are you healthy? Or how do 00:18:46.490 --> 00:18:50.849 you know when you're healthy? For someone who, 00:18:50.930 --> 00:18:54.549 say, has a white collar job, makes more money, 00:18:54.710 --> 00:18:57.369 they may say something, oh, like if I can run 00:18:57.369 --> 00:19:01.230 a 10K, I'm healthy, right? But if you ask someone 00:19:01.230 --> 00:19:06.410 who is more working class, Are you healthy? How 00:19:06.410 --> 00:19:07.750 do you know when you're healthy is when I can 00:19:07.750 --> 00:19:11.210 go to work, when it's much more functional, my 00:19:11.210 --> 00:19:14.369 everyday functioning. I can look after my kids 00:19:14.369 --> 00:19:18.789 or my grandkids. That's a very different perspective. 00:19:18.869 --> 00:19:23.410 So when you tell people even to lead a more healthy 00:19:23.410 --> 00:19:26.069 lifestyle, are you telling them you need to work 00:19:26.069 --> 00:19:29.829 more? Are you telling them like the ways that 00:19:29.829 --> 00:19:34.920 we talk about how we use our. Is it a matter 00:19:34.920 --> 00:19:38.400 of how you use your leisure time or how you use 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:41.880 your productive time? And then if your wealth 00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:44.640 is already there, health becomes part of how 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:48.180 you use your leisure time. Yeah, I can definitely 00:19:48.180 --> 00:19:50.859 understand that. It was interesting. I was just 00:19:50.859 --> 00:19:54.000 preparing to purchase some groceries and I was 00:19:54.000 --> 00:19:56.500 thinking I was going to be able to make a quick. 00:19:56.799 --> 00:20:00.940 order online and order some groceries and pick 00:20:00.940 --> 00:20:04.619 them up from the local grocery store. And when 00:20:04.619 --> 00:20:08.480 I was thinking about, okay, I need to pack my 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:12.799 daughter's lunchbox and I know that we need to 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:15.740 kind of cut back on carbs and it would be good 00:20:15.740 --> 00:20:19.559 to have some low calorie options. And then I 00:20:19.559 --> 00:20:22.839 put those search criteria in and then did the 00:20:22.839 --> 00:20:29.819 low to high sorting. In terms of prices, yeah, 00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:35.079 it was like very blatantly obvious that the most 00:20:35.079 --> 00:20:38.400 expensive things, right, are the things that 00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:41.079 are good for you. The least expensive things 00:20:41.079 --> 00:20:43.539 are the things that have all of the things that 00:20:43.539 --> 00:20:45.680 we're usually trying, that our doctors are usually 00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:48.680 telling us to avoid, right? The white sugars, 00:20:48.779 --> 00:20:53.220 just overall sugar, high calories, all that kind 00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:58.740 of stuff. it everything that you're saying um 00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:04.059 tracks on so many different levels so when we 00:21:04.059 --> 00:21:07.759 think about i'm just going to throw this out 00:21:07.759 --> 00:21:11.400 here especially for you harad what what is economic 00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:14.640 justice and why is it so important right now 00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:21.779 right right now right this is before you asked 00:21:21.779 --> 00:21:25.259 me you know it has so many different things So, 00:21:25.279 --> 00:21:27.640 you know, economic development, people typically 00:21:27.640 --> 00:21:33.220 look at economic development in really a transactional 00:21:33.220 --> 00:21:39.240 way. And where, you know, you do something for 00:21:39.240 --> 00:21:43.400 me. I was looking in Durham recently, they had 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:48.160 a new affordable housing project. And of course, 00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:50.460 Duke was there, the city of Durham was there. 00:21:51.519 --> 00:21:53.940 you know this is this is not passing disparagement 00:21:53.940 --> 00:21:56.539 on on the work there but we're so excited to 00:21:56.539 --> 00:21:59.819 talk about a transaction that happened and we 00:21:59.819 --> 00:22:04.180 actually refer to economic development in a very 00:22:04.180 --> 00:22:08.859 transactional way and when i started learning 00:22:08.859 --> 00:22:13.339 around community economic development which is 00:22:13.339 --> 00:22:17.180 really different you actually look at ways to 00:22:18.380 --> 00:22:23.420 provide a transformational way of economic development 00:22:23.420 --> 00:22:27.480 right so when i'm thinking of economic development 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:32.099 it's not just building the building and having 00:22:32.099 --> 00:22:34.759 an apartment that's affordable for people to 00:22:34.759 --> 00:22:38.680 live in for me it's like okay so where is the 00:22:38.680 --> 00:22:42.779 bus stop you know where is the grocery store 00:22:42.779 --> 00:22:46.700 where is the drug store for people to get the 00:22:46.700 --> 00:22:49.500 the drugs they may need or the medicines they 00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:53.559 may need where is the labor opportunities for 00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:56.420 them to go to work and to be on time and to not 00:22:56.420 --> 00:22:59.759 have an issue because of the the weather change 00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:02.359 you know is there a bus i remember when i ran 00:23:02.359 --> 00:23:04.740 for office they were talking about buses and 00:23:04.740 --> 00:23:06.740 bus and i kept saying see y 'all looking at this 00:23:06.740 --> 00:23:08.819 the wrong way you're talking about the city providing 00:23:08.819 --> 00:23:12.700 buses i'm like my problem is the bus stops are 00:23:12.700 --> 00:23:17.200 horrible they don't have They don't have benches. 00:23:18.579 --> 00:23:20.259 I'm like, y 'all are talking about voting for 00:23:20.259 --> 00:23:21.460 somebody who's telling you he's going to give 00:23:21.460 --> 00:23:23.579 you more bus service. I'm like, but I don't want 00:23:23.579 --> 00:23:26.279 my grandmother out there waiting on the crooked 00:23:26.279 --> 00:23:30.960 sidewalk. There's no bench, so people are sitting 00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.640 on the trash can, and there's no covering for 00:23:33.640 --> 00:23:36.559 the water, the elements of sun or water that 00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:40.039 may come. And so as you start looking at the 00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:45.319 possibilities of... economic development, I think 00:23:45.319 --> 00:23:49.079 we need to be looking at it from a healthy standpoint, 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:52.759 right? Which deals with how do we support small 00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.039 businesses? How do we invest in housing? How 00:23:56.039 --> 00:23:59.900 do we recognize transportation access? How do 00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:04.759 we aim for healthy living and gyms and parks? 00:24:05.000 --> 00:24:10.680 And so the mindset of economic development sometimes 00:24:12.310 --> 00:24:16.349 appears like a transaction for a community. And 00:24:16.349 --> 00:24:20.789 I'm an advocate of don't be transactional, but 00:24:20.789 --> 00:24:24.109 be transformational and think about ways we can 00:24:24.109 --> 00:24:28.710 build in ways for people not to just survive, 00:24:28.910 --> 00:24:31.849 but thrive. And we'd love to celebrate the survival. 00:24:32.049 --> 00:24:34.690 Like we help you survive. I don't want you to 00:24:34.690 --> 00:24:37.079 help me survive. i really want to thrive right 00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:40.160 so give me the things around these things so 00:24:40.160 --> 00:24:43.339 that i can be perpetually taken care of and not 00:24:43.339 --> 00:24:45.900 feel like you gave me something but like you 00:24:45.900 --> 00:24:48.500 know it's like telling somebody how to fish doesn't 00:24:48.500 --> 00:24:50.920 mean anything if you don't give them pole the 00:24:50.920 --> 00:24:55.019 rod the hook and the water deficient and the 00:24:55.019 --> 00:24:57.460 water better not be poisoned and it better not 00:24:57.460 --> 00:25:00.299 be poisoned so you gotta we don't think or talk 00:25:00.299 --> 00:25:06.319 around those issues we just talk about so Farad, 00:25:06.440 --> 00:25:10.859 you know that you are a person that thinks ahead 00:25:10.859 --> 00:25:17.900 and you are a person who listens and you understand 00:25:17.900 --> 00:25:23.480 and you answer the question so well. But I also 00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.859 want you to talk about how does community economic 00:25:26.859 --> 00:25:31.279 development relate to economic justice? What 00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:33.319 is that? A lot of people don't know. We know. 00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.079 We probably know so good. Sometimes we don't 00:25:36.079 --> 00:25:39.599 even really think about or examine the definition. 00:25:39.779 --> 00:25:42.480 But what is economic justice? Like we talked 00:25:42.480 --> 00:25:44.619 about health equity, but what in the world is 00:25:44.619 --> 00:25:47.200 economic justice, especially in the context of 00:25:47.200 --> 00:25:52.480 what you talked about? Yeah, so for me, economic 00:25:52.480 --> 00:25:55.859 justice is around figuring out what's the return 00:25:55.859 --> 00:26:00.950 on investment. How business people look at. economic 00:26:00.950 --> 00:26:04.250 development is like if i'm going to get some 00:26:04.250 --> 00:26:08.990 return on my dollar that's monetary that makes 00:26:08.990 --> 00:26:12.650 this a good business decision a community economic 00:26:12.650 --> 00:26:16.049 development in an economic justice mindset says 00:26:16.049 --> 00:26:19.950 there will be some financial returns but there 00:26:19.950 --> 00:26:23.789 will also be some non -financial returns that 00:26:23.789 --> 00:26:27.150 will build community and provide opportunity 00:26:27.150 --> 00:26:32.410 so for example I think about like the project 00:26:32.410 --> 00:26:35.109 at Whitted School where they build. I don't know 00:26:35.109 --> 00:26:36.609 if you know where Whitted School is. It's right 00:26:36.609 --> 00:26:42.210 near south side of Durham. Carl Webb and team 00:26:42.210 --> 00:26:47.230 took an old building that was historic. It helped 00:26:47.230 --> 00:26:50.509 with integration or during the time back when. 00:26:50.849 --> 00:26:54.450 And they converted it into a senior living facility 00:26:54.450 --> 00:26:57.230 so they could have it with someone with dignity. 00:26:57.809 --> 00:27:03.299 But then they also. put in their nursery. It 00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:05.519 was like, it did two things, right? It allowed 00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:07.980 older people to interact with younger people, 00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.079 younger people to see older people. It was right 00:27:11.079 --> 00:27:15.460 near the bus station. And so it provided a tool 00:27:15.460 --> 00:27:19.180 where people could save money and have some kind 00:27:19.180 --> 00:27:22.460 of prosperity. So when I think of economic justice, 00:27:22.759 --> 00:27:27.440 I tried to put a model on If we're going to do 00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:31.339 an economic project, whatever the economic development 00:27:31.339 --> 00:27:35.400 project, what's the economic and non -economic 00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:40.680 variables that improve this community? Makes 00:27:40.680 --> 00:27:44.880 it more healthier, makes it easier living, makes 00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:47.480 it all the things that we do for other communities 00:27:47.480 --> 00:27:51.799 in a way that allows for there to be some equality. 00:27:52.579 --> 00:27:55.099 A lot of people like to talk about shared prosperity. 00:27:56.359 --> 00:27:59.220 And I always talk around that's really aspirational 00:27:59.220 --> 00:28:01.400 unless you understand the systematic barriers 00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:05.400 of shared prosperity, such as poverty, unemployment, 00:28:05.980 --> 00:28:09.940 and the historical inequities that were put on 00:28:09.940 --> 00:28:13.559 our community. And so if you don't have the sense 00:28:13.559 --> 00:28:18.240 of social mobility and economic mobility, then 00:28:18.240 --> 00:28:22.339 it's hard to find economic justice in projects 00:28:22.339 --> 00:28:26.099 or economic development. So it would really be 00:28:26.099 --> 00:28:30.180 important. And I wish Sandy Darity was here. 00:28:30.259 --> 00:28:35.140 We were in a panel. I think we were in Baltimore 00:28:35.140 --> 00:28:39.200 or Florida. And I think I had just left city 00:28:39.200 --> 00:28:41.240 council. And he said, wouldn't it have been amazing 00:28:41.240 --> 00:28:44.299 if every economic development project you did 00:28:44.299 --> 00:28:46.940 or you approved on city council, you could talk 00:28:46.940 --> 00:28:50.000 around the impact too. We were talking about 00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:51.839 a project in Northeast Central Durham. If you 00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.319 could talk around the economic impact to those 00:28:54.319 --> 00:28:57.119 people who are in Northeast Central Durham, to 00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:58.960 those Black people who live in Northeast Central 00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:01.019 Durham, to those Hispanic people in Northeast 00:29:01.019 --> 00:29:03.779 Central Durham, if you do the project or if you 00:29:03.779 --> 00:29:06.240 don't do the project. And I started thinking 00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:09.099 about that, like, wow. Now, wouldn't that be 00:29:09.099 --> 00:29:12.440 fascinating for them to present not only the 00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:15.000 economic development project, but to present 00:29:15.000 --> 00:29:20.420 how this would be. positive for the community 00:29:20.420 --> 00:29:25.039 in the future and to be measured by that. It's 00:29:25.039 --> 00:29:29.339 a different game, right? And so when you start 00:29:29.339 --> 00:29:30.880 talking about that, I think we need to look at 00:29:30.880 --> 00:29:34.599 improvements to our community beyond affordable 00:29:34.599 --> 00:29:38.359 housing, but look at the culture, the education, 00:29:38.740 --> 00:29:42.279 the environmental sustainability, and all the 00:29:42.279 --> 00:29:44.980 other economic successes that can allow for them 00:29:44.980 --> 00:29:49.910 to have some prosperity. from it not just a building 00:29:49.910 --> 00:29:54.369 right or just being able to pay your bills and 00:29:54.369 --> 00:29:58.509 get by right okay so you just paid your bills 00:29:58.509 --> 00:30:02.710 you getting by you know um but but there's no 00:30:02.710 --> 00:30:06.529 nothing left over for living you know and that's 00:30:06.529 --> 00:30:10.289 not even getting by right right so i mean it 00:30:10.289 --> 00:30:12.329 kind of goes back to what you were saying about 00:30:12.329 --> 00:30:15.400 the you know depending on who you ask how they 00:30:15.400 --> 00:30:17.720 know they're healthy that can vary depending 00:30:17.720 --> 00:30:20.700 on what their economic you know situation is 00:30:20.700 --> 00:30:22.839 so i'm going to turn it over to you keisha what 00:30:22.839 --> 00:30:26.160 is economic justice and why is it so important 00:30:26.160 --> 00:30:30.440 especially now well you know thinking about a 00:30:30.440 --> 00:30:34.559 lot of what farad said about the justice and 00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:38.539 a big thing right now in health equity spaces 00:30:38.539 --> 00:30:41.900 and health equity research It's cost benefit 00:30:41.900 --> 00:30:45.019 analysis that is happening for every little thing, 00:30:45.119 --> 00:30:48.240 whether it is a government resource, it's any 00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:50.460 type of service. You've got to be able to say, 00:30:50.579 --> 00:30:53.359 you know, I'm going to put in two cents and then 00:30:53.359 --> 00:30:55.759 I'm going to save you 50 cents. Like it's, that's 00:30:55.759 --> 00:30:58.960 what it's, it's always in that type of direction. 00:30:59.339 --> 00:31:03.880 And there's not as much of we're doing this because 00:31:03.880 --> 00:31:06.079 it's the right thing to do. We're doing this 00:31:06.079 --> 00:31:09.700 because it's going to save money. So that transactional 00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:14.970 side. comes into play. But where the economic 00:31:14.970 --> 00:31:19.109 injustice and the health equity and the health 00:31:19.109 --> 00:31:24.069 intersect is that once you realize that a lot 00:31:24.069 --> 00:31:26.970 of the adversity that people deal with, especially 00:31:26.970 --> 00:31:29.109 if we're going to talk specifically about Black 00:31:29.109 --> 00:31:32.289 people, which is what I usually talk about, that 00:31:32.289 --> 00:31:36.269 it's manufactured adversity, right? It's manufactured 00:31:36.269 --> 00:31:40.819 adversity. you know i like to talk about when 00:31:40.819 --> 00:31:44.920 i lived in texas and to be honest with this is 00:31:44.920 --> 00:31:46.799 the first time i lived in a predominantly white 00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:50.440 neighborhood and i was fascinated fascinated 00:31:50.440 --> 00:31:53.700 with the grocery stores that there was a corner 00:31:53.700 --> 00:32:00.859 where there was a grocery store on every inner 00:32:00.859 --> 00:32:03.839 at the intersection every corner there was a 00:32:03.839 --> 00:32:07.400 grocery store there was the regular local grocery 00:32:07.400 --> 00:32:10.700 store. There was the HEB, which is H -E -B, which 00:32:10.700 --> 00:32:14.460 is like the Texas grocery store. So there was 00:32:14.460 --> 00:32:18.180 one that was like the Kroger's. There was a Sprouts, 00:32:18.279 --> 00:32:24.240 a Whole Foods, and a Trader Joe's. So there were 00:32:24.240 --> 00:32:27.819 some shopping centers where there were two grocery 00:32:27.819 --> 00:32:31.019 stores in the same shopping center. And in each 00:32:31.019 --> 00:32:35.660 of those shopping centers, they gave you samples. 00:32:37.220 --> 00:32:40.819 You walked in. And the first I remember because 00:32:40.819 --> 00:32:44.480 I lived in Philly and I thought I was doing great 00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:48.299 because I had a shop right. And, you know, I 00:32:48.299 --> 00:32:51.039 could get all my groceries in one place. I didn't 00:32:51.039 --> 00:32:54.440 have to go to five different places. And when 00:32:54.440 --> 00:32:58.900 I got there and I walked in and they gave me 00:32:58.900 --> 00:33:01.480 some cheese, some wine, some fruit. They had 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:04.059 cut up fruit in a little container that you could 00:33:04.059 --> 00:33:07.460 just go and test the oranges. I was like, so 00:33:07.460 --> 00:33:12.279 not only, and it was cheaper. It was cheaper. 00:33:12.700 --> 00:33:17.819 That was it, right? And so it wasn't just that 00:33:17.819 --> 00:33:20.839 you had this abundance of fresh food available 00:33:20.839 --> 00:33:26.720 on my way home from work. It was higher quality. 00:33:27.480 --> 00:33:32.099 It was cheaper. And it was just so accessible. 00:33:32.339 --> 00:33:36.549 And if I tasted something, And I was like, oh, 00:33:36.630 --> 00:33:38.690 this is not good. Someone would come out and 00:33:38.690 --> 00:33:40.609 say, oh, well, they would start removing the 00:33:40.609 --> 00:33:45.190 bags and put something else out there. So it's 00:33:45.190 --> 00:33:49.849 the different type of that economic justice about 00:33:49.849 --> 00:33:53.150 who deserves health that we don't always talk 00:33:53.150 --> 00:33:56.170 about. And that is also part of the economic 00:33:56.170 --> 00:34:00.309 justice because. A lot of times you have these 00:34:00.309 --> 00:34:03.730 big stores that say it's not a good return on 00:34:03.730 --> 00:34:09.190 investment to move into a neighborhood that's 00:34:09.190 --> 00:34:13.130 predominantly Black or that's working class or 00:34:13.130 --> 00:34:16.650 facing higher levels of poverty. They don't even 00:34:16.650 --> 00:34:20.210 give them a chance. And usually if you see, like 00:34:20.210 --> 00:34:23.829 I already know that if a Whole Foods pops up 00:34:23.829 --> 00:34:26.610 in a predominantly Black neighborhood, it's about 00:34:26.610 --> 00:34:31.460 to flip. We can see that. We saw that in Harlem, 00:34:31.599 --> 00:34:34.340 right? The first sign is the Starbucks. That's 00:34:34.340 --> 00:34:37.559 usually the first sign. By the time you're making 00:34:37.559 --> 00:34:40.260 the Whole Foods, you gone. It's gone. I went 00:34:40.260 --> 00:34:42.579 to New York and they built that Disney store. 00:34:42.659 --> 00:34:48.400 I was like, oh. We thought we was doing something 00:34:48.400 --> 00:34:50.780 with Magic Johnson's movie theater when it showed 00:34:50.780 --> 00:34:55.920 up. We was feeling like we were saved. Yes. Yes. 00:34:55.920 --> 00:34:58.860 Magic Johnson owned that Starbucks. Magic Johnson 00:34:58.860 --> 00:35:02.880 owned that Starbucks, but it ushered in a whole 00:35:02.880 --> 00:35:06.400 new era. It wasn't really meant for us. So, you 00:35:06.400 --> 00:35:10.480 know, it's a matter of, you know, that economic 00:35:10.480 --> 00:35:15.119 justice. It's one thing to tell people to eat 00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:20.719 healthy. But if you have to eat either out from 00:35:20.719 --> 00:35:25.530 the little mini marts at gas stations. or at 00:35:25.530 --> 00:35:31.969 drugstores, corner stores, Family Dollar, Dollar 00:35:31.969 --> 00:35:34.909 General, you know, it's a very different, that's 00:35:34.909 --> 00:35:38.690 where you get the high salt, high carb food. 00:35:39.969 --> 00:35:42.570 And that's where you get the cheaper food. You 00:35:42.570 --> 00:35:44.929 know, trying to get the fresh groceries, it gets 00:35:44.929 --> 00:35:48.210 a lot more difficult. And if we were to talk 00:35:48.210 --> 00:35:50.630 about the thing that like people get a bad rap 00:35:50.630 --> 00:35:52.739 on, and this is something that. i appreciate 00:35:52.739 --> 00:35:57.539 uh working with uh sandy darity on is the myths 00:35:57.539 --> 00:35:59.639 that black people don't know how to manage money 00:35:59.639 --> 00:36:05.159 right and especially if you get my friends who 00:36:05.159 --> 00:36:10.099 are single mothers who have to take care of kids 00:36:10.099 --> 00:36:14.960 and sometimes a parent best money managers ever 00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:16.820 you want to talk about going to the grocery store 00:36:17.579 --> 00:36:20.340 The issue, the only problem is, is that they 00:36:20.340 --> 00:36:22.579 have to get a lot of canned food. They get foods 00:36:22.579 --> 00:36:27.019 that last a long time. And my girl Kelly, I was 00:36:27.019 --> 00:36:29.900 always impressed with her because at 27 years 00:36:29.900 --> 00:36:33.340 old, she went and bought an old lady freezer 00:36:33.340 --> 00:36:39.349 so that she could. So she could buy meat and 00:36:39.349 --> 00:36:45.309 put it into the, you know, when it was on sale 00:36:45.309 --> 00:36:48.909 and she could buy in bulk, you know, when possible 00:36:48.909 --> 00:36:54.610 for leaner times. And I just, we don't get the 00:36:54.610 --> 00:36:57.369 credit and a lot of Sandy's work, you know, proves 00:36:57.369 --> 00:37:00.690 the point, you know, that we do know how to manage 00:37:00.690 --> 00:37:04.409 money. We just don't have a lot of it. you know 00:37:04.409 --> 00:37:06.789 there's always room for growth but to expect 00:37:06.789 --> 00:37:09.809 financial literacy to solve all the problems 00:37:09.809 --> 00:37:12.829 when there's no finances you know get we got 00:37:12.829 --> 00:37:14.929 to have some money and then like you can give 00:37:14.929 --> 00:37:17.949 me some like hey for when you get money we can 00:37:17.949 --> 00:37:20.429 do some lessons but that all comes into play 00:37:20.429 --> 00:37:23.050 as far as our health because how many jobs are 00:37:23.050 --> 00:37:26.269 we having do our jobs because our health insurance 00:37:26.269 --> 00:37:29.849 is tied to employment if you have inconsistent 00:37:29.849 --> 00:37:34.320 employment Or as there is more and more of a 00:37:34.320 --> 00:37:38.079 push of the gig economy, I know for folks who 00:37:38.079 --> 00:37:41.679 are in their 20s, you know, doing things like 00:37:41.679 --> 00:37:45.260 Lyft, Uber, DoorDash, it's appealing because 00:37:45.260 --> 00:37:48.099 you can make your own hours. You're getting your 00:37:48.099 --> 00:37:52.760 money quickly. But there's nothing for the long 00:37:52.760 --> 00:37:56.940 term, right? There's no health insurance. There's 00:37:56.940 --> 00:38:00.039 no savings. You know, there's no extension of 00:38:00.039 --> 00:38:03.699 a retirement benefit. You're not buying a house 00:38:03.699 --> 00:38:08.500 from that, especially if the side gig economy 00:38:08.500 --> 00:38:13.880 is your primary income. Those are all issues 00:38:13.880 --> 00:38:17.360 that will affect your health and the way that 00:38:17.360 --> 00:38:20.099 you can care for yourself because you got to 00:38:20.099 --> 00:38:22.440 do more and more. You end up working more hours 00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:25.320 in the gig economy than you would at a traditional 00:38:25.320 --> 00:38:28.219 job. But you don't have the flexibility that 00:38:28.219 --> 00:38:30.639 you may need so that you can pick up your kids. 00:38:31.420 --> 00:38:34.599 So those are some of the ways that you can see 00:38:34.599 --> 00:38:38.480 some of the economic intersections. On the other 00:38:38.480 --> 00:38:43.659 side of economic justice, we know that, you know, 00:38:43.659 --> 00:38:47.699 in the Black community, we tend to do more with 00:38:47.699 --> 00:38:49.840 less in general. But if we were to talk about 00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:53.199 folks who have a higher level of education, you 00:38:53.199 --> 00:38:57.989 see Bigger disparities between, say, middle class, 00:38:58.190 --> 00:39:01.510 upper, highly educated Black people and white 00:39:01.510 --> 00:39:05.670 people on a lot of the key health indicators. 00:39:05.730 --> 00:39:10.210 So infant mortality, maternal mortality, heart 00:39:10.210 --> 00:39:12.809 disease, all those different things that are. 00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:17.039 preventable diseases where wealth is that great 00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:19.679 predictor you have more wealth or you've got 00:39:19.679 --> 00:39:22.000 more higher income higher education if you're 00:39:22.000 --> 00:39:23.739 white or if you're part of the general population 00:39:23.739 --> 00:39:28.559 then the more wealth the increase of your positive 00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:30.960 health indicators decrease of the negative health 00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:37.019 indicators for African Americans you might see 00:39:37.019 --> 00:39:40.099 a little increase depending on what it is but 00:39:40.559 --> 00:39:43.519 oftentimes it's not significant or the drop in 00:39:43.519 --> 00:39:47.440 poor health outcomes is so drastic for white 00:39:47.440 --> 00:39:53.000 populations that for that the little improvement 00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:57.079 you get for African Americans when you have more 00:39:57.079 --> 00:40:00.860 education you have a higher income it makes a 00:40:00.860 --> 00:40:04.849 bigger gap. So it ends up being a situation where 00:40:04.849 --> 00:40:08.329 we are not all the same. So what will happen 00:40:08.329 --> 00:40:11.789 is if we were to think specifically about maternal 00:40:11.789 --> 00:40:15.690 health, so folks who are pregnant, someone, a 00:40:15.690 --> 00:40:18.469 Black person who has a college degree and they're 00:40:18.469 --> 00:40:20.289 pregnant, they go in a doctor's office and they 00:40:20.289 --> 00:40:24.019 say, oh. Oh, well, hello, Dr. Keisha. I see you're 00:40:24.019 --> 00:40:26.099 married. Do they say Dr. Keisha? They don't say 00:40:26.099 --> 00:40:28.840 Dr. Keisha. They just say Keisha. But, you know, 00:40:28.860 --> 00:40:30.900 I'm just trying to say. That's a part of the 00:40:30.900 --> 00:40:33.099 issue, though, is that when you go to the doctor, 00:40:33.300 --> 00:40:37.019 they don't know what your economic status is. 00:40:37.059 --> 00:40:39.460 They don't know what your financial situation 00:40:39.460 --> 00:40:43.219 is. They just see a brown face. They see a black 00:40:43.219 --> 00:40:46.099 woman. Yeah. And you know, and I'm, I'm okay 00:40:46.099 --> 00:40:48.860 with being treated like my brothers and sisters 00:40:48.860 --> 00:40:51.360 in arms. Like I am perfectly fine with that. 00:40:51.380 --> 00:40:53.320 And I got to tell you, things got to be real 00:40:53.320 --> 00:40:56.739 bad for me to have to drop a Dr. Bentley in there. 00:40:57.019 --> 00:41:00.739 So you have this thing where no matter where 00:41:00.739 --> 00:41:02.980 you're at, folks will treat you some kind of 00:41:02.980 --> 00:41:06.519 way that is not a good way in that health encounter. 00:41:07.079 --> 00:41:11.929 And then even if they do know, that you are married 00:41:11.929 --> 00:41:17.909 and that you got your PhD, MD, JD, MSW, because 00:41:17.909 --> 00:41:22.510 we like to collect degrees. Oh, yeah. And they 00:41:22.510 --> 00:41:24.670 assume that you're going to have the same outcomes 00:41:24.670 --> 00:41:29.929 as white folks that are similarly situated. So 00:41:29.929 --> 00:41:32.590 they're not even aware of a lot of the health 00:41:32.590 --> 00:41:36.460 care providers are not aware of the. the larger 00:41:36.460 --> 00:41:39.500 issues where it's like well my provider and i 00:41:39.500 --> 00:41:43.559 have this great relationship but when i go into 00:41:43.559 --> 00:41:46.820 the hospital these people don't know me you know 00:41:46.820 --> 00:41:49.179 if you're lucky and you have a great relationship 00:41:49.179 --> 00:41:52.559 with your doctor you go in the hospital you're 00:41:52.559 --> 00:41:55.239 just like everybody else anyway right and so 00:41:55.239 --> 00:41:58.239 um and you get treated like everybody else and 00:41:58.239 --> 00:42:00.320 these are the things that happen and it's not 00:42:00.320 --> 00:42:05.000 good it's not good and so Just because you make 00:42:05.000 --> 00:42:08.400 more money as a Black person doesn't mean that 00:42:08.400 --> 00:42:13.219 you are protected from racism. You may be able 00:42:13.219 --> 00:42:16.980 to rebound better from racism, meaning that you 00:42:16.980 --> 00:42:20.440 can choose to go to another provider. You can 00:42:20.440 --> 00:42:24.139 choose to take your business elsewhere in ways 00:42:24.139 --> 00:42:27.139 that can improve your health. You know how to 00:42:27.139 --> 00:42:34.360 file a formal complaint. Maybe. Maybe. And that's 00:42:34.360 --> 00:42:38.880 a big maybe. But it doesn't mean that those slights 00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.260 and discrimination don't impact your health. 00:42:41.400 --> 00:42:44.900 Most definitely. So just because you can bounce 00:42:44.900 --> 00:42:47.340 from it doesn't mean that you're fully recovering 00:42:47.340 --> 00:42:51.300 from it. And that's not talked about enough as 00:42:51.300 --> 00:42:53.840 far as economic justice. The dollar does not 00:42:53.840 --> 00:42:56.940 go as far. It doesn't give you the same social 00:42:56.940 --> 00:43:00.400 capital. Still, go get your education, go make 00:43:00.400 --> 00:43:04.980 that money, but understand the limitations. You'll 00:43:04.980 --> 00:43:08.619 get more out of it than if you didn't. But just 00:43:08.619 --> 00:43:11.440 understand that it will not solve all of Black 00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:15.679 people's problems. I just want to parlay, you 00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:17.800 know, I didn't want to interrupt an earlier part 00:43:17.800 --> 00:43:21.940 of, you know, I remember I'm speaking Dr. Andrea 00:43:21.940 --> 00:43:25.119 Harris's language. I want to be nailed to this. 00:43:25.440 --> 00:43:27.500 She used to say there's a black tax to being 00:43:27.500 --> 00:43:30.639 poor. Absolutely. And I was like, what do you 00:43:30.639 --> 00:43:32.360 mean there's a black tax? I've never heard of 00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.599 black tax. I've heard of federal tax, state tax. 00:43:35.219 --> 00:43:39.840 She said, well, she said, let's go through this. 00:43:40.199 --> 00:43:43.139 If you live in a poor community, then you have 00:43:43.139 --> 00:43:46.500 to pay more for grocery because, you know, the 00:43:46.500 --> 00:43:49.579 grocery store may be the bodega, the local grocery 00:43:49.579 --> 00:43:53.800 store. So milk may be a certain price at a large 00:43:53.800 --> 00:43:56.539 retailer in a prominent community i'm trying 00:43:56.539 --> 00:43:58.159 to leave everybody's names out but y 'all know 00:43:58.159 --> 00:44:02.559 what i'm talking around 239 and with your card 00:44:02.559 --> 00:44:06.920 you can get it for 220 but if you go get it store 00:44:06.920 --> 00:44:08.840 you can't even get a gallon you gotta get a half 00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:12.920 a gallon and pay four dollars the impact to the 00:44:12.920 --> 00:44:17.099 dollar the percentage impact of the dollar for 00:44:17.099 --> 00:44:21.340 a let A community that doesn't make as much money 00:44:21.340 --> 00:44:23.679 is real. And then you got to think about the 00:44:23.679 --> 00:44:26.619 impact to what they have to do, that they add 00:44:26.619 --> 00:44:30.099 costs because of insurance and having to put 00:44:30.099 --> 00:44:33.000 a gate up and having to have cameras. They price 00:44:33.000 --> 00:44:36.800 all that in that work. So you end up paying more 00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:40.400 to be in that community. So it's so important 00:44:40.400 --> 00:44:43.000 when you're talking around building communities 00:44:43.000 --> 00:44:46.480 and understanding the health impacts. And we're 00:44:46.480 --> 00:44:48.940 not even talking about the mental health impact. 00:44:50.490 --> 00:44:52.630 We're talking about all this physical stuff, 00:44:52.769 --> 00:44:55.750 but the mental impact of having to live in that 00:44:55.750 --> 00:45:00.230 environment can create an outcome that is not 00:45:00.230 --> 00:45:04.869 good. Absolutely. That surveillance, right? So 00:45:04.869 --> 00:45:07.969 it's the combination of you personally having 00:45:07.969 --> 00:45:10.190 to be hypervigilant so that you're not taken 00:45:10.190 --> 00:45:13.070 advantage of in a lot of different ways. You're 00:45:13.070 --> 00:45:15.550 not being harassed by the police. Your kids aren't 00:45:15.550 --> 00:45:17.630 being harassed by the police. Your partners aren't 00:45:17.630 --> 00:45:21.510 being harassed. And then knowing that you're 00:45:21.510 --> 00:45:25.329 always being watched. And if you, you know, you 00:45:25.329 --> 00:45:27.329 might be able to get away with this, but not 00:45:27.329 --> 00:45:31.510 for long, you know, or even if you do all the 00:45:31.510 --> 00:45:35.309 right things that it can turn. So that hypervigilant, 00:45:35.389 --> 00:45:39.210 the safety nets and the freedom to make mistakes, 00:45:39.610 --> 00:45:44.929 especially if you're in an environment. And if 00:45:44.929 --> 00:45:48.989 you live in an area that has higher crime rates, 00:45:49.210 --> 00:45:52.929 violent crime rates and, you know, who's getting 00:45:52.929 --> 00:45:57.590 the benefit of the doubt? It's exhausting. It's 00:45:57.590 --> 00:46:03.050 exhausting. It's absolutely exhausting. Yeah, 00:46:03.090 --> 00:46:05.530 I know this is true when it comes to stop and 00:46:05.530 --> 00:46:08.260 frisk. Right. So we know. You know, just going 00:46:08.260 --> 00:46:10.920 home from work and knowing that the police are 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:13.340 going to pull you over, whether you're walking, 00:46:13.460 --> 00:46:15.900 going to the bus stop, standing in the mud, you 00:46:15.900 --> 00:46:19.800 could still get pulled over or held. And it's 00:46:19.800 --> 00:46:23.239 these inconveniences that are not just a minor 00:46:23.239 --> 00:46:26.699 inconvenience. They are an assault on your mental 00:46:26.699 --> 00:46:32.039 health. And so, yes, as Black people, we are 00:46:32.039 --> 00:46:36.460 resilient. But imagine the innovation. that Black 00:46:36.460 --> 00:46:38.420 people would have if we didn't have to deal with 00:46:38.420 --> 00:46:42.360 all this manufactured adversity. Thanks for joining 00:46:42.360 --> 00:46:45.599 me for episode one of No Health, No Wealth, Economic 00:46:45.599 --> 00:46:49.619 Justice and Health Equity. I'm Naisha Frey. Join 00:46:49.619 --> 00:46:52.320 us for episode two as we continue the conversation 00:46:52.320 --> 00:46:55.380 with Dr. Keisha Bentley -Edwards and Farhad Ali. 00:46:55.659 --> 00:46:58.599 Until then, subscribe on your favorite podcast 00:46:58.599 --> 00:47:01.900 platform and stay connected with me on LinkedIn, 00:47:02.179 --> 00:47:04.579 YouTube, Blue Sky or Substack.