WEBVTT 00:00:00.400 --> 00:00:03.279 How would education change if we treated educator 00:00:03.279 --> 00:00:06.080 wellness as essential to student achievement? 00:00:06.480 --> 00:00:09.439 At Professional Inspiration, we believe educator 00:00:09.439 --> 00:00:12.820 and student wellness isn't optional. It's foundational. 00:00:13.140 --> 00:00:16.719 Our online courses, nationally accredited, are 00:00:16.719 --> 00:00:20.460 designed to inspire and empower and inform educators 00:00:20.460 --> 00:00:23.679 because when educators are well, students thrive. 00:00:24.160 --> 00:00:27.480 Explore our courses at professional -inspiration 00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:41.500 .com. Stay well. Welcome back to Questions You 00:00:41.500 --> 00:00:43.960 Didn't Ask. I'm Naisha Frey, and I'm here again 00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:47.359 with my friend, Dr. Paul Fleming, ready to keep 00:00:47.359 --> 00:00:50.840 this series rolling. Beyond the Band -Aid, prevention, 00:00:51.020 --> 00:00:54.060 power, and public health equity. Grab your coffee, 00:00:54.240 --> 00:00:57.119 settle in, and let's jump back into the conversation. 00:00:57.679 --> 00:01:00.740 I appreciate you for doing that, making those 00:01:00.740 --> 00:01:06.459 statements in regard to, like, this is not a 00:01:06.459 --> 00:01:10.060 real word. but Disney -fying poverty, right? 00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:15.879 That was not my intention. And I appreciate you 00:01:15.879 --> 00:01:24.859 for making that clarification because yes, being 00:01:24.859 --> 00:01:29.760 poor and lacking your core necessities is not, 00:01:29.879 --> 00:01:32.599 like we talked about, you know, just hoarding 00:01:32.599 --> 00:01:37.109 is not the answer. Being poor and lacking. you 00:01:37.109 --> 00:01:40.689 know, necessities of life and living and dignity 00:01:40.689 --> 00:01:43.810 and humanity. That's not the answer either. So 00:01:43.810 --> 00:01:48.430 that is important for us to, you know, clarify 00:01:48.430 --> 00:01:52.250 that there's somewhere in the middle that we're 00:01:52.250 --> 00:01:57.329 searching to balance. So what I want to do now 00:01:57.329 --> 00:02:04.269 is talk a little bit about, so I have had this 00:02:05.519 --> 00:02:09.520 Especially with the political environment and 00:02:09.520 --> 00:02:12.919 different groups, racial groups, ethnic groups, 00:02:13.379 --> 00:02:15.919 socioeconomic groups, like calling each other 00:02:15.919 --> 00:02:17.719 out and being like, well, why aren't you doing 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:21.840 this? And why didn't you do that? And specifically, 00:02:23.539 --> 00:02:26.439 you know, especially for people who are left 00:02:26.439 --> 00:02:30.060 -leaning, who are more liberal, which I consider 00:02:30.060 --> 00:02:32.240 myself to be more left -leaning, more liberal 00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:34.729 than not. I don't think that's a surprise to 00:02:34.729 --> 00:02:38.870 anybody. There's a lot of rhetoric around, you 00:02:38.870 --> 00:02:41.189 know, well, why aren't Black people out in the 00:02:41.189 --> 00:02:43.669 streets like they usually are? You know, or why 00:02:43.669 --> 00:02:46.810 aren't Black people showing up in the same ways? 00:02:46.930 --> 00:02:49.710 You know, and some of the quick snapbacks are 00:02:49.710 --> 00:02:54.210 we showed up. We was 92 and 86 percent on November 00:02:54.210 --> 00:02:58.270 5th or whatever day it was. So y 'all got to 00:02:58.270 --> 00:03:00.889 figure it out. You know, on top of some of the 00:03:00.889 --> 00:03:04.129 challenges that come, the violence that comes 00:03:04.129 --> 00:03:08.629 from Black bodies and faces and voices being 00:03:08.629 --> 00:03:12.349 present on front lines, what that triggers for 00:03:12.349 --> 00:03:16.550 a lot of law enforcement and now, unfortunately, 00:03:16.710 --> 00:03:19.870 military presence or ICE presence or whoever 00:03:19.870 --> 00:03:23.889 is out there with a gun and a badge. And so some 00:03:23.889 --> 00:03:27.259 of what people might have seen me. talk about 00:03:27.259 --> 00:03:30.560 on my social media handles is this hashtag get 00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:34.479 your people um and the get your people is basically 00:03:34.479 --> 00:03:40.259 to say I'm gonna get my people we gonna figure 00:03:40.259 --> 00:03:43.199 some stuff out we are down with the left -leaning 00:03:43.199 --> 00:03:46.680 we got to do something better right but there's 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:50.780 another group of people that are talking about 00:03:50.780 --> 00:03:53.620 us that they need to work on their people i .e 00:03:53.620 --> 00:03:56.810 especially the problematic with the white folks. 00:03:57.050 --> 00:03:59.050 And I've already had a show about the real talk 00:03:59.050 --> 00:04:01.650 with Black and Latino people. If y 'all haven't 00:04:01.650 --> 00:04:03.909 heard it, you definitely need to go listen to 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:09.650 it. The Get Your People campaign. But I imagine 00:04:09.650 --> 00:04:13.430 in talking to my family and friends, it's not 00:04:13.430 --> 00:04:18.509 that easy, right? Especially when folks are entrenched 00:04:18.509 --> 00:04:22.069 in their privilege and wanting to continue to 00:04:23.039 --> 00:04:26.300 Advantage themselves and have that life of ease 00:04:26.300 --> 00:04:34.720 and continue to be willfully in no sense. And 00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:37.699 all of the rest of it. So what have you found, 00:04:37.819 --> 00:04:43.620 if there's any, strategies that help you to move 00:04:43.620 --> 00:04:46.019 people with privilege from just knowing about 00:04:46.019 --> 00:04:47.819 injustice? Because we even have some of these 00:04:47.819 --> 00:04:51.600 problems on the left side. Knowing about injustice. 00:04:52.350 --> 00:04:58.810 to actually doing something about it? Yeah, it's 00:04:58.810 --> 00:05:02.350 a great question. And I want to start by saying 00:05:02.350 --> 00:05:04.689 I definitely don't have all the answers like 00:05:04.689 --> 00:05:09.610 I wish I did. But, you know, I think it's tricky 00:05:09.610 --> 00:05:11.370 in the sense that I do think you're absolutely 00:05:11.370 --> 00:05:16.009 right, that there are a certain subset of those 00:05:16.009 --> 00:05:20.009 who see the injustice, they're willing to say 00:05:20.009 --> 00:05:22.279 something about it, or at least... make sure 00:05:22.279 --> 00:05:24.259 that their friends and neighbors hear them say 00:05:24.259 --> 00:05:28.399 that they're mad about the injustice. But when 00:05:28.399 --> 00:05:32.079 push comes to shove, taking action about the 00:05:32.079 --> 00:05:38.720 injustice would kind of disrupt their easy lifestyle 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:41.019 and they don't want to do that. And so I think 00:05:41.019 --> 00:05:44.600 that is one challenging group to think about. 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.779 I think there's another group. And this is the 00:05:47.779 --> 00:05:50.139 group that I think I'm a little bit more interested 00:05:50.139 --> 00:05:53.680 in spending energy on and with. There's another 00:05:53.680 --> 00:05:57.800 group that sees the injustice, wants to say something 00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.139 about it, make sure people hear them say this 00:06:00.139 --> 00:06:03.540 injustice is not fair. And then they legitimately 00:06:03.540 --> 00:06:06.660 just don't know what to do about it. It feels 00:06:06.660 --> 00:06:11.500 too big for them to tackle. I think also when 00:06:11.500 --> 00:06:14.620 we're talking about. not necessarily all white 00:06:14.620 --> 00:06:17.600 people, but certain segments of white folks, 00:06:17.819 --> 00:06:21.879 they have not exercised the protest muscle. They 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:26.740 have not exercised the way that other communities 00:06:26.740 --> 00:06:29.839 have had to fight year after year for decades 00:06:29.839 --> 00:06:34.480 and centuries. White folks haven't in the same 00:06:34.480 --> 00:06:37.879 way. They need better tools or they need to understand 00:06:37.879 --> 00:06:41.480 better tools. So that's where I think that segment 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:45.079 of the population. needs ideas and strategies 00:06:45.079 --> 00:06:49.779 and organizing get them moving um because i have 00:06:49.779 --> 00:06:51.759 you know i've had a lot of conversations with 00:06:51.759 --> 00:06:55.100 folks i just you know i just don't even know 00:06:55.100 --> 00:06:57.459 where to start or i don't know what what to do 00:06:57.459 --> 00:07:02.079 and so i i do think that sort of paralysis it's 00:07:02.079 --> 00:07:03.920 not just white folks that are feeling that at 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:06.519 this moment right and what we're facing is really 00:07:06.519 --> 00:07:09.660 big and there is a lot of uncertainty about what 00:07:09.660 --> 00:07:12.899 we can do it's not like we all have one solution 00:07:12.899 --> 00:07:16.540 that we think everybody should be doing. But, 00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:19.199 you know, one of the things that I think about, 00:07:19.379 --> 00:07:22.660 first off, nothing's going to change overnight. 00:07:23.100 --> 00:07:26.360 So don't think that you got to dive in and like 00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:29.879 tackle the whole problem tonight, tomorrow, this 00:07:29.879 --> 00:07:32.879 week. So you got that long -term perspective 00:07:32.879 --> 00:07:37.980 and then break it up. What do you want to see 00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:41.490 in five or 10 years? So then What do you have 00:07:41.490 --> 00:07:45.990 to do on a shorter timeframe? There's this organization 00:07:45.990 --> 00:07:48.370 based in Detroit called Sevilla, and they talk 00:07:48.370 --> 00:07:51.269 about 10 -3 -1 -3. What do you want to achieve 00:07:51.269 --> 00:07:53.470 in 10 years? Okay, if you're going to do that 00:07:53.470 --> 00:07:55.370 in 10 years, then what do we have to do in three 00:07:55.370 --> 00:07:59.149 years? It's like the 10 -year vision. Then what 00:07:59.149 --> 00:08:01.449 do we have to have done by three years? Then 00:08:01.449 --> 00:08:03.970 you back it up to one year. And then you say, 00:08:04.009 --> 00:08:05.509 what do I have to do in the next three months 00:08:05.509 --> 00:08:08.250 to set us on that path, right? And so I think 00:08:08.250 --> 00:08:11.199 sometimes it's that type of thinking. that people 00:08:11.199 --> 00:08:13.980 need to be guided towards because they get stuck 00:08:13.980 --> 00:08:18.000 in the if you let's talk about the we mentioned 00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:20.740 the kind of deportation machine right the mystery 00:08:20.740 --> 00:08:24.480 of deportation that has been ramped up is both 00:08:24.480 --> 00:08:27.779 terrible and massive and operating at a federal 00:08:27.779 --> 00:08:31.439 level right and so when you think about what 00:08:31.439 --> 00:08:35.120 what like what naisha what do you and i do about 00:08:35.120 --> 00:08:37.899 that particular fact right it's overwhelming 00:08:37.899 --> 00:08:42.440 so i think in the face of injustices like that, 00:08:42.620 --> 00:08:45.460 it's really important to break it down and then 00:08:45.460 --> 00:08:47.720 also be thinking local, right? So if I think 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.580 about that particular problem, I'm thinking about, 00:08:50.679 --> 00:08:53.799 well, what are immediate needs in my local community 00:08:53.799 --> 00:08:57.179 that I might be able to address? And it could 00:08:57.179 --> 00:08:59.580 be literally as simple as donating 20 bucks, 00:08:59.840 --> 00:09:03.000 50 bucks, like that is one step in the right 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:05.220 direction, right? It is not solving systems, 00:09:05.259 --> 00:09:07.740 it is not changing the world, but it at least 00:09:07.740 --> 00:09:13.610 is better than me only saying wow this deportation 00:09:13.610 --> 00:09:17.929 regime is awful right it gets me past it gets 00:09:17.929 --> 00:09:20.830 me past just saying the thing to actually take 00:09:20.830 --> 00:09:23.590 an action the other thing I might do is think 00:09:23.590 --> 00:09:26.149 about well what are my local organizations that 00:09:26.149 --> 00:09:29.429 are actually focused on this issue and I know 00:09:29.429 --> 00:09:31.149 here in my county there's there's a wonderful 00:09:31.149 --> 00:09:33.990 organization that works on immigrant rights so 00:09:33.990 --> 00:09:36.500 I would be Directing people to how do you plug 00:09:36.500 --> 00:09:39.200 into that, right? How do you plug into what is 00:09:39.200 --> 00:09:42.440 the support that they need in this moment? And 00:09:42.440 --> 00:09:44.580 then I think there's also the piece about like 00:09:44.580 --> 00:09:47.720 educating yourself about what is the vision that 00:09:47.720 --> 00:09:49.840 we actually want, right? Okay, so we don't want 00:09:49.840 --> 00:09:53.379 a deportation regime. What do we want? What do 00:09:53.379 --> 00:09:55.980 we want for our immigrant communities? What do 00:09:55.980 --> 00:09:58.320 we want? And starting to get a better handle 00:09:58.320 --> 00:10:00.879 on what our vision is and using our imagination. 00:10:01.950 --> 00:10:04.529 you know i think it's a way to get people unstuck 00:10:04.529 --> 00:10:07.350 from that place of just this is an injustice 00:10:07.350 --> 00:10:11.090 right and so i i think i mean back to your original 00:10:11.090 --> 00:10:13.009 question i think i strayed from your question 00:10:13.009 --> 00:10:16.490 a little bit but like no you're there that when 00:10:16.490 --> 00:10:19.090 when you're going to get your people like that's 00:10:19.090 --> 00:10:20.450 what you're going to help them do you're going 00:10:20.450 --> 00:10:24.590 to help them see that tiny step forward You're 00:10:24.590 --> 00:10:26.289 not going to tell them what they're doing is 00:10:26.289 --> 00:10:28.549 wrong. You're not going to tell them these other 00:10:28.549 --> 00:10:30.309 things. You're going to take collective action. 00:10:30.490 --> 00:10:33.190 You're going to get a group of people together 00:10:33.190 --> 00:10:36.789 to take one small step forward. Check in. How 00:10:36.789 --> 00:10:38.970 was that one small step? OK, we all survived. 00:10:39.169 --> 00:10:40.830 We did it. We did the thing. What's our next 00:10:40.830 --> 00:10:43.909 step? And that's, I think, how we can redirect 00:10:43.909 --> 00:10:47.509 people. Yeah, I think the one thing that I would 00:10:47.509 --> 00:10:50.980 add to that. is what my show does, right? Is 00:10:50.980 --> 00:10:54.200 like check in on your assumptions, check in on 00:10:54.200 --> 00:10:56.379 your blind spots. Like one of the things that 00:10:56.379 --> 00:10:59.000 I found that one of the reasons why I love this 00:10:59.000 --> 00:11:02.179 show is that I'm actually able to learn, you 00:11:02.179 --> 00:11:05.120 know, alongside my guests. And in particular, 00:11:05.299 --> 00:11:08.559 Julissa Soto, who was my guest for, you know, 00:11:08.559 --> 00:11:10.940 the conversation about the Black and Latino community. 00:11:11.220 --> 00:11:14.120 She shared with me not just her own story of 00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:18.539 how she came from Mexico to... America and what 00:11:18.539 --> 00:11:21.759 all took place, which was an amazing story that 00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:25.279 I could not imagine. I then put myself in her 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:27.080 position and said, would you have done that? 00:11:27.240 --> 00:11:29.679 I don't know. I've never had to be in that position 00:11:29.679 --> 00:11:33.320 before. Aha, you have some privilege. You have 00:11:33.320 --> 00:11:37.000 some privilege. Recognizing that, then further 00:11:37.000 --> 00:11:42.899 understanding what is actually the problem. These 00:11:42.899 --> 00:11:45.179 folks are saying, well, you should just get your 00:11:45.179 --> 00:11:47.039 paperwork or come into the country the right 00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:48.919 way. Well, I'm an American. I've always been 00:11:48.919 --> 00:11:50.639 an American. I don't even know what that process 00:11:50.639 --> 00:11:54.879 is. Can we unpack that? And so in that conversation, 00:11:55.139 --> 00:11:57.879 she unpacked some of those things, a lot of those 00:11:57.879 --> 00:12:01.919 things. And I said, wow, this is a lot like what 00:12:01.919 --> 00:12:06.120 we see in other parts of our country, our systems, 00:12:06.379 --> 00:12:09.639 our policies, where there are things that don't 00:12:09.639 --> 00:12:14.210 add up. things that don't make sense, you know, 00:12:14.230 --> 00:12:18.649 and they create a bigger problem than what's 00:12:18.649 --> 00:12:20.570 actually there in the first place. Yes, there 00:12:20.570 --> 00:12:24.929 are people that are here that have been violent, 00:12:25.029 --> 00:12:29.730 that cause trouble, that cause chaos. There are 00:12:29.730 --> 00:12:33.269 Americans here that do those things. So that's 00:12:33.269 --> 00:12:35.519 not even... I don't even know if that's a good 00:12:35.519 --> 00:12:38.200 reason to be getting rid of people. But the point 00:12:38.200 --> 00:12:40.720 is, is that, you know, just for me, it was like 00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:44.940 I had to examine some of my blind spots and also 00:12:44.940 --> 00:12:47.740 recognizing my privileges. I've never had to 00:12:47.740 --> 00:12:51.700 really seriously, seriously think about leaving 00:12:51.700 --> 00:12:55.879 my home country. Never. Now, I've thought about 00:12:55.879 --> 00:12:58.419 it. I've looked at some nice YouTube videos, 00:12:58.519 --> 00:13:02.580 but I've never really had to like have a go bag. 00:13:02.960 --> 00:13:05.419 You know what I'm saying? Maybe I should, but 00:13:05.419 --> 00:13:07.940 it has not gotten to that point yet. And that 00:13:07.940 --> 00:13:10.899 is a point of privilege. And so for me, that 00:13:10.899 --> 00:13:13.299 was important for me to recognize when I was 00:13:13.299 --> 00:13:15.720 having that conversation and examining, like, 00:13:15.779 --> 00:13:19.399 how do I build solidarity with this community? 00:13:19.500 --> 00:13:22.779 Or is solidarity even a possibility with this 00:13:22.779 --> 00:13:24.899 community? Because we come from two totally different. 00:13:25.700 --> 00:13:28.019 perspectives and histories. And there's a whole 00:13:28.019 --> 00:13:29.600 lot that I don't know about them. And there's 00:13:29.600 --> 00:13:31.940 a whole lot that they don't know about me. And 00:13:31.940 --> 00:13:35.580 there's a whole lot of prejudice and what's the 00:13:35.580 --> 00:13:39.799 word, you know, these assumptions and stereotypes. 00:13:40.059 --> 00:13:41.860 That's the word I'm looking for. Stereotypes 00:13:41.860 --> 00:13:45.019 that we have about each other, why you're here, 00:13:45.159 --> 00:13:46.980 why you ain't doing better than what you're doing. 00:13:47.039 --> 00:13:48.860 Why are you doing better than what I'm doing? 00:13:48.899 --> 00:13:52.259 You know, all this stuff. Yeah. It gets tiring. 00:13:52.639 --> 00:13:56.379 Yeah. And you know, It makes me think back to 00:13:56.379 --> 00:13:59.580 what you were saying earlier about the sharing, 00:13:59.840 --> 00:14:03.860 because, you know, think about all of these movements 00:14:03.860 --> 00:14:07.700 are so much stronger when we've got each other's 00:14:07.700 --> 00:14:10.419 back, right? When the movement for immigrant 00:14:10.419 --> 00:14:13.879 rights has the back of Black Lives Matter and 00:14:13.879 --> 00:14:17.419 vice versa, both of those movements become stronger, 00:14:17.559 --> 00:14:20.919 right? And it is, I mean, certainly there's... 00:14:21.320 --> 00:14:23.779 It's not as simple as that, so I'll acknowledge 00:14:23.779 --> 00:14:26.679 it, but there's an abundance, right, in that 00:14:26.679 --> 00:14:30.299 sharing mentality. It's not either I have rights 00:14:30.299 --> 00:14:32.279 or you have rights and it's a zero -sum game 00:14:32.279 --> 00:14:34.539 because that mentality is just going to keep 00:14:34.539 --> 00:14:39.940 us where we're at, right? And so this idea of 00:14:39.940 --> 00:14:45.500 an abundance of, like, we can share and therefore 00:14:45.500 --> 00:14:49.519 we can create more and more. It's not... If I 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.120 have, you don't have. It's what do we have together? 00:14:52.519 --> 00:14:56.659 And I think that really applies also to how we 00:14:56.659 --> 00:15:00.740 fight injustice, how we are activists in our 00:15:00.740 --> 00:15:05.500 communities, kind of recognizing that, yes, you 00:15:05.500 --> 00:15:09.279 may be fighting one fight primarily, but that 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.080 those fights are connected and that we do need 00:15:12.080 --> 00:15:15.120 to show up for each other because all these systems 00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.740 are connected. The deportation regime, at the 00:15:19.740 --> 00:15:22.580 end of the day, is a violent law enforcement 00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:25.000 apparatus that works in many of the same ways 00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.480 that local police can be violent against many 00:15:28.480 --> 00:15:31.500 marginalized communities, especially Black communities. 00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:34.360 And so those two things are connected, right? 00:15:34.440 --> 00:15:39.700 And when we separate those fights, we're less 00:15:39.700 --> 00:15:42.559 powerful, right? Yeah, it's divide and conquer. 00:15:42.740 --> 00:15:46.340 You don't win that way, right? Yeah. If you're 00:15:46.340 --> 00:15:48.600 enjoying the show as much as we love creating 00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:52.419 it, consider showing your support by buying us 00:15:52.419 --> 00:15:57.259 a cup of coffee. Visit buymeacoffee .com slash 00:15:57.259 --> 00:16:04.940 Nyesha Frey O. That's buymeacoffee .com forward 00:16:04.940 --> 00:16:10.639 slash Nyesha Frey O. All one word. Each cup is 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:14.480 just $5 and every single one helps us continue 00:16:14.480 --> 00:16:18.070 to produce, develop and sustain the high quality 00:16:18.070 --> 00:16:21.230 content you've come to expect from questions 00:16:21.230 --> 00:16:24.070 you didn't ask. Thank you for your continued 00:16:24.070 --> 00:16:26.669 support and let's keep the conversation going. 00:16:27.070 --> 00:16:29.730 And I appreciate you saying that too, because 00:16:29.730 --> 00:16:34.169 what is happening is there's also a sense of, 00:16:34.230 --> 00:16:37.990 I don't know if nervousness is the right word, 00:16:38.110 --> 00:16:42.750 but vigilance is definitely it. Nervousness is 00:16:42.750 --> 00:16:46.299 a part of it because They're starting to go after 00:16:46.299 --> 00:16:49.360 Haitians. And all my Haitian friends look like 00:16:49.360 --> 00:16:52.659 my cousins. You know what I mean? So it's like, 00:16:52.779 --> 00:16:56.240 well, what is that? What is, wait, what's going 00:16:56.240 --> 00:16:59.679 on here? Granted, I have a passport. I don't 00:16:59.679 --> 00:17:02.740 know if it's still like, if it is expired yet. 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.000 I need to get it together. Like we need to get 00:17:05.000 --> 00:17:07.519 our paperwork together. But that's crazy that 00:17:07.519 --> 00:17:09.220 we have to think about getting our paperwork 00:17:09.220 --> 00:17:12.380 together. And when I think about that, it takes 00:17:12.380 --> 00:17:16.869 me back to some. like very traumatic historic 00:17:16.869 --> 00:17:22.930 events from my people of, you know, people from 00:17:22.930 --> 00:17:26.690 slavery, you know, Black people who were enslaved, 00:17:26.970 --> 00:17:29.990 African peoples who had been enslaved. The way 00:17:29.990 --> 00:17:32.109 that you could move about from place to place 00:17:32.109 --> 00:17:36.630 is you had to have a note from either the person 00:17:36.630 --> 00:17:40.450 who owned you because you were their property. 00:17:41.109 --> 00:17:43.329 that said you had permission to go from this 00:17:43.329 --> 00:17:47.089 place to that or you had to be carrying with 00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:49.849 you your freedom papers if you happen to be free 00:17:49.849 --> 00:17:54.269 and you would hope and pray that if someone asked 00:17:54.269 --> 00:17:55.970 for them that they didn't rip them up burn them 00:17:55.970 --> 00:17:58.690 up and throw them away because we didn't have 00:17:58.690 --> 00:18:00.990 lamination back then we definitely didn't have 00:18:00.990 --> 00:18:03.250 any type of what you know what i'm saying so 00:18:03.250 --> 00:18:06.670 you know it's bringing back some really bad you 00:18:06.670 --> 00:18:10.119 know like associations It's making me think about 00:18:10.119 --> 00:18:13.579 how the birther movement started with Trump, 00:18:13.599 --> 00:18:16.440 you know, hating on Barack where he wanted to 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:19.240 see his papers. He was denying, you know, the 00:18:19.240 --> 00:18:22.220 fact that President Barack Obama was an American 00:18:22.220 --> 00:18:24.460 citizen and questioning that and starting that 00:18:24.460 --> 00:18:26.619 whole movement. And so now it's trickling down 00:18:26.619 --> 00:18:31.480 and creating this issue with immigration. And 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:34.799 one of the big dog whistles of this whole thing 00:18:34.799 --> 00:18:38.910 was Trump being in the debate. talking about 00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:42.990 the Haitians are eating cats and dogs. What? 00:18:43.670 --> 00:18:47.109 Yeah. So, you know, all these things are connected. 00:18:47.329 --> 00:18:52.509 And that is your point, that we cannot overcome 00:18:52.509 --> 00:18:58.470 this trauma, this violence, this terrorism, if 00:18:58.470 --> 00:19:02.410 we're all in our respective corners, just trying 00:19:02.410 --> 00:19:06.009 to protect our individual, you know, identity. 00:19:08.269 --> 00:19:12.750 and community. With that being said, you have 00:19:12.750 --> 00:19:17.410 a new book. I do. You have a new book that's 00:19:17.410 --> 00:19:23.170 coming out called Imagine Doing Better. I love 00:19:23.170 --> 00:19:25.329 that title. I don't know if I told you that. 00:19:25.910 --> 00:19:28.230 One of the reasons why I love that title, and 00:19:28.230 --> 00:19:30.309 that's not the only part of the title, but that's 00:19:30.309 --> 00:19:32.990 the main part, is that I often say, do better. 00:19:33.329 --> 00:19:36.670 Folks be messing up. Do better. And you say, 00:19:36.750 --> 00:19:39.170 no, let's imagine it. Let's go there, right? 00:19:39.230 --> 00:19:41.829 Let's go ahead and let's put in the work to imagine 00:19:41.829 --> 00:19:45.930 to do better. You even gave some community members 00:19:45.930 --> 00:19:50.210 some ideas about how to do better. You're concerned. 00:19:51.089 --> 00:19:54.230 You're on alert. You know there's some violence 00:19:54.230 --> 00:19:56.529 and some terrorism and some injustice going on 00:19:56.529 --> 00:19:59.849 and it is not sitting right with you. So let's 00:19:59.849 --> 00:20:02.750 think about what it is to do better. And in this 00:20:02.750 --> 00:20:07.460 book, You talk a lot about prevention thinking. 00:20:08.859 --> 00:20:14.200 Prevention thinking. One of the things that resonates 00:20:14.200 --> 00:20:16.960 with me in this moment about prevention thinking, 00:20:17.119 --> 00:20:19.859 and you're going to tell our audience and tell 00:20:19.859 --> 00:20:23.279 me to a little bit more about how this term really 00:20:23.279 --> 00:20:29.440 shows up in your everyday life and your studies 00:20:29.440 --> 00:20:31.160 and things like that. But one of the things that 00:20:31.160 --> 00:20:35.160 comes to my mind is, you know, I was a part of 00:20:35.160 --> 00:20:40.460 a group of thinkers and community workers and 00:20:40.460 --> 00:20:42.680 social adjustment movement people that were concerned 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.579 about this thing called adverse childhood experiences, 00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:49.740 ACEs. And it was brought to our attention that 00:20:49.740 --> 00:20:54.019 a lot of the trauma or disruption that people 00:20:54.019 --> 00:20:56.339 are feeling in the right here and now can be 00:20:56.339 --> 00:20:58.339 traced back to what happened to them as children. 00:20:58.420 --> 00:21:01.960 That's not a big... aha moment, but it happened 00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.940 to be like, we need to go back and examine this 00:21:04.940 --> 00:21:07.059 and pay more attention to it. And one of the 00:21:07.059 --> 00:21:10.019 strategies of dealing with ACEs was resilience. 00:21:10.680 --> 00:21:13.099 And so we started talking about resilience and 00:21:13.099 --> 00:21:15.339 we need to teach people resilience and these 00:21:15.339 --> 00:21:18.259 different resilience strategies. And none of 00:21:18.259 --> 00:21:21.180 this was bad. None of this was negative. None 00:21:21.180 --> 00:21:24.279 of this was like nonsense. To me, it was very 00:21:24.279 --> 00:21:28.460 legitimate. But as we grow, we learn, right? 00:21:28.500 --> 00:21:30.680 As time passes, if you're paying attention, you 00:21:30.680 --> 00:21:32.440 start learning. And one of the things that came 00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:35.700 to mind was conversations that I was hearing, 00:21:35.960 --> 00:21:39.420 family, friends, social media, blah, blah, which 00:21:39.420 --> 00:21:42.900 was like, but can we talk about why so much resilience 00:21:42.900 --> 00:21:48.440 is needed? Can we prevent the need for all of 00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:53.480 that resilience? Maybe it's too much resilience. 00:21:53.559 --> 00:21:56.579 Maybe there's too much going on. So when you 00:21:56.579 --> 00:21:58.740 when I just thought about, you know, your book 00:21:58.740 --> 00:22:02.759 about doing better, imagine doing better and 00:22:02.759 --> 00:22:04.579 prevention thinking. That's one of the things 00:22:04.579 --> 00:22:07.660 that came to my mind. So I'm going to hush now 00:22:07.660 --> 00:22:11.759 and I'm going to let you tell me and our audience, 00:22:11.980 --> 00:22:17.019 you know, what is this term? What does that mean 00:22:17.019 --> 00:22:20.740 in everyday terms for you and the work that you 00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:24.130 do? Yeah, absolutely. I know you have a lot of 00:22:24.130 --> 00:22:27.089 listeners who work in the field of public health. 00:22:27.190 --> 00:22:31.230 And so a lot of prevention thinking is based 00:22:31.230 --> 00:22:35.970 on ideas that we know and love in public health. 00:22:36.529 --> 00:22:40.630 But it's trying to bring that lens to the entire 00:22:40.630 --> 00:22:43.750 way we think about structuring our society, how 00:22:43.750 --> 00:22:46.809 we make laws, how we make policies. So not just 00:22:46.809 --> 00:22:49.309 thinking about what are our public health policies, 00:22:49.390 --> 00:22:52.920 but how do we think about the environment and 00:22:52.920 --> 00:22:55.359 education and other things through this with 00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.900 this prevention thinking lens and when i say 00:22:57.900 --> 00:23:00.380 prevention thinking i'm mostly talking about 00:23:00.380 --> 00:23:02.920 a couple of different things which we know really 00:23:02.920 --> 00:23:06.019 well in in public health world but you know we 00:23:06.019 --> 00:23:09.160 are trying to get to the root cause of what an 00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:14.859 issue is right so when we think about any problem 00:23:14.859 --> 00:23:18.400 that we're facing in society whether it's related 00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:23.420 to violence or poverty, whatever it is, we're 00:23:23.420 --> 00:23:25.779 going and thinking about what is the root cause? 00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:28.680 And we can just, you know, the easiest way to 00:23:28.680 --> 00:23:32.559 get at that is you just keep on asking why, why, 00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:35.240 why, why? And eventually you get to the point 00:23:35.240 --> 00:23:39.380 where you're thinking about systems or bigger, 00:23:39.500 --> 00:23:42.099 bigger level issues that need to be tackled. 00:23:42.380 --> 00:23:44.700 So, you know, the first step of prevention thinking 00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.640 is like, what is the root cause? The second piece, 00:23:48.839 --> 00:23:51.259 again, will be familiar to a public health audience, 00:23:51.480 --> 00:23:54.460 is that we're prioritizing primary prevention. 00:23:54.660 --> 00:23:58.400 So if you remember back to graduate school, thinking 00:23:58.400 --> 00:24:00.680 about the different levels of prevention, right? 00:24:00.900 --> 00:24:03.839 Primary prevention is, let's just try to stop 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:05.759 the thing before it happens in the first place. 00:24:06.259 --> 00:24:08.880 Because we also can do things like secondary 00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.680 and tertiary prevention, which is... Oh, once 00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:14.920 you have the disease, let's think about what 00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:17.920 medicine we can give you. Once you have this 00:24:17.920 --> 00:24:20.579 problem, what can we do to make it a little bit 00:24:20.579 --> 00:24:22.880 better, right? So those are different levels 00:24:22.880 --> 00:24:25.640 of prevention. What prevention thinking invites 00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:29.099 us to do is let's just prevent this thing from 00:24:29.099 --> 00:24:33.140 happening in the first place. Let's try to make 00:24:33.140 --> 00:24:35.769 it so they're... There isn't really violence 00:24:35.769 --> 00:24:39.009 in our communities. Let's try to make it so that 00:24:39.009 --> 00:24:42.410 your uncle doesn't get diabetes in the first 00:24:42.410 --> 00:24:46.470 place. Let's try to make it so that people are 00:24:46.470 --> 00:24:49.250 not criminalized in the first place and end up 00:24:49.250 --> 00:24:53.529 in jail for years and decades. What can we do, 00:24:53.609 --> 00:24:56.609 right? And then the final thing is that when 00:24:56.609 --> 00:25:00.410 we're thinking about prevention, we are prioritizing 00:25:00.410 --> 00:25:02.630 the wants and needs of the impacted community. 00:25:03.390 --> 00:25:06.589 So it's not me. And what I mean by that is I 00:25:06.589 --> 00:25:08.569 might have an understanding of what root causes 00:25:08.569 --> 00:25:11.349 are and I'll want to prioritize primary prevention, 00:25:11.430 --> 00:25:15.170 but I'm not doing anything until I actually know 00:25:15.170 --> 00:25:18.690 what the community that's in question wants and 00:25:18.690 --> 00:25:21.450 needs. And this is that concept of nothing about 00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:24.609 us without us. Communities should have agency 00:25:24.609 --> 00:25:29.029 and control over what is going on in their own. 00:25:29.480 --> 00:25:32.119 So that's what I mean when I talk about prevention 00:25:32.119 --> 00:25:34.819 thinking. And I think, you know, more broadly, 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:39.700 the book invites readers to use their imagination 00:25:39.700 --> 00:25:44.460 for what the society that they actually think 00:25:44.460 --> 00:25:48.099 we all need. Like, what is it that we need in 00:25:48.099 --> 00:25:52.240 this world, in this country? And, you know, there's 00:25:52.240 --> 00:25:56.420 a quote in the book. It's from Robin D .G. Kelly's 00:25:56.420 --> 00:26:01.059 book, Freedom Dreams. he says the map to a new 00:26:01.059 --> 00:26:04.259 world is in the imagination and i just love that 00:26:04.259 --> 00:26:07.779 quote because the thing is is i i think we all 00:26:07.779 --> 00:26:09.720 recognize or certainly the listeners of this 00:26:09.720 --> 00:26:13.259 podcast recognize we need a new world we need 00:26:13.259 --> 00:26:16.299 a world that is built on those principles of 00:26:16.299 --> 00:26:19.039 sharing the principles of equity right we need 00:26:19.039 --> 00:26:22.779 that world and so this quote the map to the new 00:26:22.779 --> 00:26:25.680 world is in the imagination We're never going 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.200 to get to that new world if we don't dream it 00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:31.539 up first. And so that's that piece of the imagine 00:26:31.539 --> 00:26:34.160 doing better is we got to start with our imagination. 00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:37.579 I think the other two pieces the book really 00:26:37.579 --> 00:26:40.559 highlights is reflection and action. And of course, 00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:43.579 the action piece is about the doing better. I 00:26:43.579 --> 00:26:45.940 appreciate your compliments of the title. I also 00:26:45.940 --> 00:26:49.200 love it because I think those pieces are so connected 00:26:49.200 --> 00:26:52.160 and complimentary. we can't just stop at the 00:26:52.160 --> 00:26:54.220 imagination, right? And we can't stop at the 00:26:54.220 --> 00:26:58.400 reflection. We have to actually do better. And 00:26:58.400 --> 00:27:02.299 so the last half of the book really talks about 00:27:02.299 --> 00:27:05.680 like, if we want to transform our society, how 00:27:05.680 --> 00:27:08.660 do we do it? How do we think about doing that? 00:27:08.900 --> 00:27:11.519 How do we, and I talk a little bit about how 00:27:11.519 --> 00:27:14.039 we transform ourselves, how we transform those 00:27:14.039 --> 00:27:16.960 around us. So that's getting to kind of the question 00:27:16.960 --> 00:27:19.660 you asked earlier about. about getting your people 00:27:19.660 --> 00:27:22.720 but then also like which systems should we be 00:27:22.720 --> 00:27:24.920 transforming how what are the strategies and 00:27:24.920 --> 00:27:27.859 approaches and tools we can use so really i like 00:27:27.859 --> 00:27:31.140 to think of the book as it's a roadmap for readers 00:27:31.140 --> 00:27:34.160 for how we get to that that better world and 00:27:34.160 --> 00:27:39.240 it does start with imagination so a part of what 00:27:39.240 --> 00:27:42.720 i hear you saying is that in addition to my hashtag 00:27:42.720 --> 00:27:45.980 of get your people I should also be saying, get 00:27:45.980 --> 00:27:51.119 your book. Imagine doing better. I love it. I 00:27:51.119 --> 00:27:53.660 love it. I won't complain about that. I don't 00:27:53.660 --> 00:27:56.220 know. I don't know if the hashtag will be as 00:27:56.220 --> 00:27:59.460 popular, but we can work with it. Thank you for 00:27:59.460 --> 00:28:01.759 tuning in to Questions You Didn't Ask with me, 00:28:01.900 --> 00:28:04.619 Nyesha Frey, and my guest, Dr. Paul Fleming. 00:28:04.759 --> 00:28:07.599 These conversations just keep getting better. 00:28:07.859 --> 00:28:11.660 Every episode, another aha moment. Don't miss 00:28:11.660 --> 00:28:14.619 what's next. as beyond the band -aid keeps the 00:28:14.619 --> 00:28:18.200 momentum going. Subscribe, share, and I'll see 00:28:18.200 --> 00:28:18.900 you in the next one.