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Welcome back to Questions You Didn't Ask. I'm
Nyisha Frey, joined again by wellness entrepreneur,
Charles Chambers, as we continue our series,
Trippin', Black Men, Land, and Liberation. Let's
pick up where we left off. Yes, so the role that
our loved ones, those who truly love us, right,
or who are at least attempting to love us, being
able to keep it real with us about how our alcohol
use. is affecting us and how it's affecting other
people around us is important for the person
that is in the addiction. Right. Absolutely.
It's everything. And so again, that, oh, he's
a functioning alcoholic that just embraces this
toxic behavior and almost cosigns for it. Well,
everybody else. So like, even in the middle of
my addiction, we have to start. pointing things
out when we see them. Yeah. And also, I think
that that functional alcoholism, you know, if
I can go there, kind of plays into our values
as a capitalist society, which says that as long
as you are able to get yourself up in the morning,
go to work, whatever kind of work that is, make
some sort of money, pay some sort of bill, you
know, and not tear up too bad, it's okay, right?
But the functionality is usually centered around,
does that person still hold a job? Does that
person still make money or contribute to the
economy in some way outside of just the ABC store?
That's what we call it in North Carolina is Aunt
Betty's Closet, ABC, right? The liquor store,
okay? The corner store, you know, are you contributing
to? the economy? Are you at least at your kids'
function, regardless of whether or not you're
high or drunk while you're there? If you're sitting
there high or drunk, do you at least keep it
to yourself? And, you know, it's not reeking
through your pores, but just you sitting there
behaving. Are you functioning? Right? And so
to me, that kind of speaks into our values of
capitalism over and to seem Rather than to be
right. Do you at least seem healthy? Do you at
least seem OK and functional rather than are
you actually are you being healthy? So that's
kind of what I'm getting from what you're sharing
and also just reflecting on my experiences, whether
it's professional experiences or how substance
use has impacted my loved ones. So. To keep the
conversation moving, how do you define mindfulness?
Mindfulness. Yeah. And how does it influence
your approach to healing and entrepreneurship?
So I hear you talking about keeping it real with
yourself, you know, as far as this functional
alcoholism is concerned. And then I also hear
you talking about how you are in nature and you're
checking in on yourself. So where does mindfulness
fit into that? And and also in terms of how you
facilitate healing and these adventures with
the other folks that you invite into this space.
So that's like five different. I know. Right.
I'm terrible. Yes. Mindfulness. When you say
mindfulness, that's being present. That's everything.
Being present. What I mean is. And it's much
like for this interview, me showing up. It's
me having my head right for the situation, not
just dragging into it, to being present in my
mind, heart, body, and soul, being present in
moments when I'm dealing with my kids or my loved
ones, when at work, showing up and being present
in the situation of whatever it is, taking the
time to do that. I use the golf analogy to describe
it. It's like practicing mindfulness is like
playing 18 holes in golf. So like after, no matter
what happened on your previous swing, you have
to clear all that out of your head and recenter,
refocus and have that attitude. Like say you
duff the first shot, duff, make a mistake on
that first shot. You got to let that go and clear
your head. and say, hey, I'm getting ready to
blast this out into the universe and quiet all
that negative noise out and just be present in
the moment and just say, hey, I'm going to do
this without any noise from what has happened
just minutes before. You've got to approach this
next scenario with a clear head and an open mind
to have it do what it do. So doing that, practicing
no matter what happened in the past, that's to
approach your next step with all the optimism
of the universe that everything's possible. And
so in traveling, that's what I practice, showing
up. And no matter what happens in the past, there's
opportunities. This is a whole blank slate full
of opportunities. For whatever. If I'm clinging
to the past, there could be all sorts of voices
that sort of mute whatever options or possibilities.
It cancels them out because, you know, the negative
talk inside my head would say, oh, well, that'll
never work. Forget about doing that. By being
present in the moment, it's quieting all that
and stepping into today right now with. clean
slate ready to receive. That carries into my
work and everything that I do today. I think
I practiced some of that before I quit drinking.
And once I sobered up, I sort of learned the
words for it in terms of focusing my efforts
and being present, showing up. How do you help
facilitate that mindfulness when people join
you on your set trips? So for me personally,
I share my experience of what I do, but also
with our trips, we have a therapist involved
and she helps walk people through certain experiences.
We encourage the people to journal. We hand out
journal books and then she'll walk the group
through with different prompts. It's throughout
the experience, we'll make sure that there's
plenty of time for people to journal and to reflect
back on their lives. Because that's really the
tripping experiences. I always want to include
not just the outdoor activities, but the mental
part of that experience. I believe that each
of these events, these hurdles that are in front
of a group of people like climbing a mountain
or whitewater rafting, there's transformative
opportunities in these experiences, in these
events. And we try and set up the atmosphere
for that to happen. So we've been dabbling in
this, you know, understanding of what set tripping
is. But why don't you give my audience and me
some insight into how these trips come together
and what usually happens? I know that you have
it's not just yourself. You mentioned a therapist.
I know that there's some other people involved.
So why don't you just give my audience a full
picture of the soup to nuts of a set trip? Started
the business last year. And this was something
that I had been thinking about for years. And
last year I was determined to make it happen.
And so there's a team of eight of us. It's the
team consists of three of us, our guides. And
then we have a therapist, a wellness coach. She
makes sure that the way that we're going about
what we're doing. cover certain values in terms
of the wellness cycle. We drink alkaline water
as opposed to tap. The food that we eat, the
menus, she'll make sure that we're eating healthy
food. So her responsibility is overall maintaining
the quality of our programming, that it's there.
And present. So there's that. There's the therapist.
There's then I have a salesperson and a tech
person. And that consists of eight people. And
the business, again, we last year was my first
year. So the business is evolving as I speak.
And right now I'm in the middle of planning for
the rest of this year and beyond. And it's growing
even in terms of location. talking with your
friend of yours about North Carolina. And I find
it inspiring because when I talk to people about
what I do, there's always interest and encouragement
about these type of events. You know, often I
hear the thing that Black people don't camp or...
Right. That's another thing that I don't think
is true. I think there's a lot of us out there
that are... into the outdoors but there's no
place where no single place where you can go
and get information about it or to go with other
people what i often hear from women is that they
don't feel safe going out there by themselves
and so they don't that they're very much interested
in it but they don't know anyone else that's
into it and so what's up tripping is what i'm
doing a shining a spotlight for those like -minded
folks that are into the outdoors to say, hey,
we're over here. Right, right, right. So go ahead
and share with our audience, how would they be
able to connect with you if they're interested
in learning more or potentially signing up for
a set trip? So there's a mailing list on the
website to definitely join that. And that's at
set -tripping .com. That's S -C -T dash. T -R
-I -P -P -I -N, that's no G, and .com. And there,
definitely sign up on the mailing list. But that'll
give you, if you go there, it'll give you some
insight to what we do. And again, that's involving.
As things come online, that's where you'll find
them. Yeah, tell us some of the places that you
visited and maybe even some of your favorite
moments on a set trip. So we went to the Allegheny
Mountains last year. There was a group of nine
participants in the Allegheny Mountains in the
middle of Pennsylvania. And there we went on
a six -mile trek to an overlook. And that was
the culminating experience. So it was a three
-day trip where we camped out in October in Pennsylvania.
It was exposure to the forest. We were teaching
people the basics of camping, shelter building,
how to start fires, do's and don'ts on trail.
Basically, everything that has to do with the
basics with camping. In addition to that, so
the way that we... that the hike was the last
thing, not the last thing that they did, but
everything that we had in place led to that hike.
And after the hike, that's when, as a group,
we went through this group discussion. It turned
into this transformative experience for people
where people were sharing. After you go through
something with a group of people, it automatically
bonds you with them. And this group that climbed
the mountain together, and also let me say that
in order to get to the top of the mountain, it
takes everyone working together to get it done.
It is dangerous out there. Things can happen.
And so it's a practice of certain. safety things
and then us looking out for each other the group
started as eight individuals and now to this
day we're all on a text thread that where we
communicate routinely about everything almost
like family and so by going through this experience
together we're all bounded by that event and
it's a thing that happens with every group going
through Something like that. If you're enjoying
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let's keep the conversation going. So it's a
great way to create and solidify a community
as well as building your own strength, right?
And awareness. I appreciate so much that you
share that, you know, there are three guides
that the truth is, is that it can be dangerous.
And so people's, you know, natural fear of going
out there alone, untrained with no backup could
be dangerous. So a group trip might be one of
the best ways to go about it, especially when
you have skilled guides to go with you and to
teach you along the way. And the fact that people
don't have to. come there knowing how to camp
or knowing how to create a fire, that you guys
upskill them and train them on these things in
real time. Quite enriching. And that's the thing.
It could be miserable out there without the right
equipment or knowledge. The difference could
be 180 degrees. Yes. I love this. And I want
people to lean into what it is that you're sharing
about. how being out in nature can be such a
facilitator of health and well -being. As you
know, my background is in public health and psychology.
So that's one of the reasons why I was so interested
in having you on the show. And so now I want
to dig into some more of like how our spaces
intersect by diving into this concept of the
social determinants of health. And in my world,
the social determinants of health are conditions
in the environment. where people are born, live,
learn, work, play, worship, and age. So all these
places, all these environments, right? How have
factors like employment, we talked a little bit
about that, access to nature, economic stability,
these types of social determinants of health
influence health and wellness journeys from your
perspective? For me, it's a huge impact on it.
And certainly I can say for myself, I grew up
in the projects in Cleveland and there in the
projects, it was a ton of concrete. And in fact,
I can remember that they would have this patch.
It would be a square patch for a tree coming
out of it. So it'd be concrete over 90 % of the
space where I live. And then there would be this,
a few patches. sprinkled around the community
where there would be one tree growing out of
this concrete with a dirt patch. And I just thought
that was absurd. Even as a kid, I knew that that
wasn't right. Like, this is horrible. When I
was in ninth grade, we moved from the projects
to the suburbs border of Shaker Heights. Totally
different experience, totally wooded area, and
it was just gorgeous. When we moved there, that
felt more normal than where we were in the projects.
It's living in, one, a dense population of people
that are just packed full of folks with this
concrete everywhere. To me, it just was unnatural.
It never did sit well with me, and it's no way
to live. The projects, if you notice, they're
often near some sort of factory that's got this
stuff blown out of it. I have asthma. And I'm
certain that it came from, you could see the
stacks from where I used to live. And inhaling
that as a kid in its developmental years had
to contribute to something. But so, yes, our
environment plays a big part in our lives. Another
thing about the things that are in our environment,
I used to volunteer at a youth center in King
Kennedy in Cleveland. And at night, I would drive
home, which is out in the suburbs, and sit out
on the patio and relax. And I felt guilty after
I left the youth center that I worked at. It
was in the projects, and it was right in the
heart of it. Being there, you could feel, I could
feel the, there's this level of anxiety that's
just right there. It's a constant thing, you
know, your heightened awareness, you know, it's,
you could feel the tension in the air in this
community center. The kids would come in with
that. Well, I think they would come in to get
away from that stuff that's out there. When I
would lock up the space and go home, I would
be leaving that environment. But often what I
would think about is that the kids are still
in that environment. And being in that state,
that state of heightened awareness and dealing
with all this stuff, I think it ages us. It's
not helping us grow. So it's got to be hurting.
If you can imagine kids that are in their developmental
years, growing up in that environment is... is
not good for us. Right. No, 100%. And one of
the words that was coming to my mind when you
were talking about it is the concept of hypervigilance.
That is a survival strategy when you're in highly
stressful and potentially dangerous environments
where you always have to do what a lot of people
call keeping your head on a swivel. Right. So
in other words, for those folks who are not familiar
with that term, basically always looking around,
watching your back, watching your sides. In some
ways, I would imagine, Charles, and you correct
me if I'm wrong, it's almost like being in training
or actual a soldier. Right. Some of the things
that I'm sure you probably learned or were trained
in in the military may have even been similar
to some of the things that you knew about how
to survive in those highly stressful. environment.
So, and then it's even interesting to think about,
and I tend to go down these rabbit holes and
connections and things like that, but you know
how a lot of times, you know, our kids in the
hood are targeted by the military to join as
a, as a means to get out. Right. But it's to
get out and go into what, right. So you talk
a little bit about some of the statistics and,
and culture and, and opportunities or lack thereof.
that are present in the military and how they
can feed into some of our, you know, unhealthy
behaviors that we might've shown up there with
trying to escape, but you kind of go in deeper.
So that's escaping one environment and going
into another environment as opposed to, you know,
the challenge that you felt, which was you were
at a point in your life where this was a job
of service. but a paying job, you know, and you
were able to leave and go somewhere else to find
your peace. And your peace was a big part of
that had to do with your access to nature, that
you knew these young, innocent children, which
I think a lot of people forget that even though
these kids are required to age faster, to grow
up faster, but that they're actually children,
you know. you felt a sense of guilt about that.
Right. That's tough. I can relate to that. At
a point in my career, I wanted to be, for the
longest time, I wanted to be a children and family
psychologist. And when I had the opportunity
to serve children and families, I found myself
especially attached to the children and very
much wanting to save them from the environment
that they were in, but recognizing that there
was still so little that I could do and that
their agency as children was so limited in terms
of what they could do. And so thinking even about
the air quality that they breathe and the homes
that they live in and recognizing my own privilege,
you know, we talk a lot in health equity and
in the work of social justice about, you know,
white privilege. But even as Black people, different
ones of us, you know, experience and have and
hold certain privilege. And so in this case,
the privilege was I can lead. Or I can leave
and go into nature. I can leave and sit on my
front porch and not worry about who's coming
down the sidewalk or who's driving by or what's
going on in the house behind me as I sit on this
front porch and who might be rushing out or rushing
in, you know, but that we can find peace at some
point in our day, especially attached to our
homes. Yes. That's deep. And very important.
So when I think about, you know, some of my walk
and journey, I had the good fortune to do some
research and get acquainted with and learn more
about the environmental justice movement. And
what I learned was that it actually began in
Warren County, North Carolina, back in 1982.
And it was it was. Found it because Black residents
protested against toxic waste dumping in their
community. You know, you talked about the smokestacks
and the hood, you know, but this was a rural
community. You know, so we think about nature.
We oftentimes think about, oh, where there are
large, you know, expanses of forest or land.
And what we don't realize is that even in those
spaces, those rural spaces, that there can be
environmental factors. that negatively impact
the health of those people, especially when you're
talking about Black people or non -white people.
Have you come into contact with this movement
of environmental justice? And if so, how does
this history inform your work and perspective
on what you do today, especially with set tripping?
That's an area that I'm starting to look closer
at. And it's so important, especially even now
today, that especially what this administration
is doing right now, like I'm wondering what is
next year going to look like in terms of camping?
After all the effects of what we're doing this
year, what they're doing this year with the parks,
with the metro parks, that's like everything.
We're talking about the 47th Executive Administration.
And the types of executive orders and changes
that are coming down and how that's impacting
our park system and our environment. So, yes,
Charles, how is that affecting set tripping and
even your own, you know, I like to say nomad
discovery experience, you know, as it relates
to January through June of each year? Our environment.
it's it's limiting possibilities or opportunities
by this our green space is dwindling down to
nothing we um there's certain states that have
some gorgeous uh parks and spaces and i am alarmed
for what that's going to look like in years to
come because it's a thing like the effects of
today will hit later on down the road we'll hit
larger next year and a year after. And so it's
disappointing that here we took the time to build
these spaces and now they're pretty sensitive
in terms of sustaining them. And having this
type of interruption could hurt a lot of these
spaces that we have available to us. And it's
terrible. And what it does is limit opportunities
with where we can go. Yeah. And find those healing
spaces. You know, the fact that in this conversation,
we were talking about nature, being in nature,
access to nature, green spaces, and how that
those spaces, those environments and the health
and well -being of the environment facilitates
our own health and well -being. You know, I don't
think that a lot of people consider that, you
know, and for those of us who do. It's definitely
a time for us to think about how can we preserve
what we have, preserve and protect what we have,
whether that is, you know, our own acquisition
of green space, natural space, or whether that
has to do with our own political activism, social
activism, you know, campaigning and awareness.
But I think one of the pieces for me even is
just to be aware of the fact that environmental
justice movement organizing, sounding the alarm,
is a part of our Black history, our Black American
history, and that it's not just relevant. for
our rural environments but also for our urban
environments for for the hood you know our thoughtfulness
around you know the built environments uh and
what is that even city planning role have to
have to play in that facilitation of health and
well -being of the communities and populations
that live near there do we need to continue to
build up up up and out out how is real estate
being overutilized? And what does that look like?
I know I've been privileged to have family in
Cleveland, Ohio and visit there and be there
for all my life. And then also to grow up in
North Carolina myself and recognizing that people
have come to North Carolina and recognize that
even when you're flying into RDU for those of
you to visit that way by flight, you notice that
it's like mostly green. It's very, very green.
It's one of the things that I love about growing
up in this part of North Carolina is that it's
very green. It's very lush. There's even a lot
of planned planting. But that's not the case
for everybody that lives here. And some of that
is a facade for a certain population and others
don't, you know, always benefit from that. So
I just really like to call out that type of awareness
and even, you know, like we were saying, you
know, how are the actions that are happening
now from an executive federal perspective going
to impact us tomorrow, next year, five years
from now, 10 years from now? Right, parks closing,
those spaces will dwindle. And worse, the ones
that are open won't have the support that they
need. And so things will fall by the wayside.
It takes time to get these spaces to where they
are now. And to start going in reverse or killing
off these spaces is just terrible. That's a wrap
on this episode of Questions You Didn't Ask.
I'm Naisha Frey, and it's been a privilege to
speak with Charles Chambers, founder of Set Trippin'
Outdoor Adventures. His reflections on freedom,
recovery, and reclaiming space set the stage
for what's ahead. Join me next time as Trippin'
Black Men, Land, and Liberation continues.