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Welcome back. to questions you didn't ask. The
show where we peel back the layers, break the
silence, and have the conversations that too
often go ignored. This is season four, series
two, and it's titled Trippin', Black Men, Mental
Health, and Movement. This series is for anybody
who's ever carried trauma in their body, questions
in their mind, and still find a way to move through
it. It's all about Black men, real ones. whole
ones, complicated ones, and how their stories,
pain, joy, and recovery journeys matter. This
is a conversation about movement and stillness,
about sobriety and storytelling, about what happens
when Black people, especially Black men, step
off the grid and into their healing. I'm your
host, Nyesha Frey, and I bring to this conversation
my background in psychology, clinical psychology.
public health and health behavior my professional
journey began as a substance use counselor in
manhattan's lower east side where i witnessed
firsthand the devastating impact of substances
like cocaine heroin and alcohol on individuals
and communities these experiences deepened my
compassion for those struggling with addiction
Understanding that systemic pressures like American
capitalism, institutionalized racism, and complex
social environments often make illicit drugs
seem like a viable coping mechanism. But healing
is possible. And sometimes healing starts with
stepping outside, literally. Did you know that
Black Americans are less likely to receive mental
health treatment than their white counterparts?
In 2022, only 15 % of non -Hispanic Black adults
received mental health care, compared to 27 %
of non -Hispanic white adults. This gap isn't
just about stigma. It's about access, affordability,
and a health care system that hasn't always served
Black communities equitably. And the consequences
are devastating. The suicide rate among Black
or African -American populations has been rising.
In 2011, the rate was 5 .5 per 100 ,000. By 2020,
it climbed to 7 .7 per 100 ,000. This increase
is alarming, especially when we consider that
suicide rates among Black youth have nearly doubled
in the past decade. But here's something powerful.
Access to nature is linked to better mental health
outcomes. According to research from the American
Psychological Association, spending time outdoors
can lower cortisol levels, reduce anxiety, and
even improve cognitive function. Yet, Black communities
often face disparities in access to nature, from
environmental injustices to a lack of self -welcoming
outdoor spaces. And this has consequences. Did
you know that the life expectancy of Black men
in the U .S. is significantly lower than that
of Black women? According to the CDC, Black men
have a life expectancy of 67 .7 years compared
to 74 .9 years for Black women. Factors like
chronic stress, systemic racism, and limited
access to health -promoting environments, including
nature, play a role in this gap. That's why this
conversation matters. In this episode, I sit
down with Charles E. Chambers. Charles, the fat
cat. Chambers is a brand developer and founder
of Set Trippin' Outdoor Adventures, a movement
focused on reconnecting our communities with
the outdoors through adventure, culture, and
the freedom to explore, play, and thrive in nature.
As a lifelong traveler and creative storyteller,
Charles brings mindfulness, design, and cultural
pride together to inspire connection, adventure,
and community. His work invites Black folks to
see the outdoors not just as escape, but as a
place to thrive. As someone rooted deeply in
public health, I spend my life working on the
structural side of health equity, social determinants,
systemic barriers, policy, and program design.
Charles works on the deeply personal side, using
his life as a canvas to explore what healing
can look like through movement, mindfulness,
and entrepreneurship. This series brings our
worlds together. Together we explore the social
determinants of health, the conditions in which
people are born, grow, work, live, worship, and
age. that influence health outcomes. And we challenge
the idea that outdoor activities, hiking, camping,
fishing, are white things. Black people have
always been connected to the land. From Solomon
Brown, the first African -American employee of
the Smithsonian Institution, to Charles Young,
the first Black superintendent of a national
park, to Rue Mapp, founder of Outdoor Afro. Black
conservationists have paved the way for a new
generation reclaiming outdoor spaces. Today,
Black -led organizations like Outdoor Afro and
Black Men Hike are reshaping the narrative, proving
that nature is for everyone. Because whether
we're talking about therapy or camping, hiking
trails or healing trauma, this conversation is
about liberation through land. access in the
stories we tell ourselves and each other. Let's
get into it. Thank you. Thank you so much, Charles,
for being here today on Questions You Didn't
Ask. You know I've been looking forward to this
conversation with you. I know my guests are pumped
up and ready to hear this amazing discussion.
So without any further ado, let's just jump right
in. So my first question I love to ask my guests
is just tell my audience, why in the world did
you decide to join me on questions you didn't
ask today? Right. You know, I like that question.
The straight answer is because you asked me to.
I mean, you know, but I came on because, you
know, it's it's about showing up and being present.
So this was another opportunity for me to do
so. You ask. And so here I am. Awesome. Awesome.
So for my audience out there, for those of you
who are looking for partnerships and opportunities,
just remember, ask. Ask is one of the most important
things to do is just put yourself out there and
ask the question. You oftentimes will get the
response that you need. Right. And that you want.
So let's start off with you sharing with my audience
and with me to a little bit more about your personal
journey. and how it led you to founding Set Trippin'
Outdoor Adventures. Yes, this journey actually
started back in 2020. That's when I sobered up.
I quit drinking, quit smoking. And it wasn't
a choice that I said, oh, I'm going to quit drinking
and smoking. It was the thing of, it was really,
it came down to a choice of whether I wanted
to live or die. For a long time. The drinking,
it was no longer serving me, and my health was
just horrible. I had chronic migraines. My balance
was off. I could barely walk. I should say that
I worked for myself, and I would work from home.
I think what I was doing was isolating myself.
from the rest of the world. And I was quite comfortable
with it sitting in it. You know, I thought that
was living until it wasn't. Then it became this
thing that consumed me and I wanted free from
that. And I tried quitting myself for the longest,
when I say the longest, I mean years, like, okay,
I'm gonna try it this way. I'm gonna try it that
way. And it wasn't until I asked for help that
actually a change happened. And I wanted to make
sure I mentioned that person, Yolanda Higgins.
That's my cousin. I watched her sober and I was
so inspired. It showed me that it can be done
because her and I used to be drinking buddies.
Right. And so it was a thing of here's a person
that I love dearly and she's right there in front
of me and I'm watching her life change literally.
And I wanted that. And so in 2020, this was right
around the time of the pandemic. That was the
only thing I could do at that moment was to go
to the hospital. And it wasn't a light thing.
I was in intensive care for three days. and then
in the hospital for a couple of more days. That
whole year, the first year when I stopped, was
really just 24 -7 around recovery from meetings,
hospital doctor visits. That's the other thing.
Before I sobered up, I wasn't going to the doctor.
I wasn't eating right. I wasn't exercising. So
this tripping thing that I do now, it's about
all the things opposite of how I was living.
before and that i was living in isolation the
work that i do uh helped me not have to deal
with the public and so i had this buffer between
me and folks and so once i sobered up it became
a question of well okay now i'm sober so how
you want to live what are you gonna do and um
i wanted to live now that i got this life back
right and so then i started looking at all the
things that I had always wanted to do things
that I like to do, and I just started checking
off that list. I put together, I sort of combined
them, and that's what this tripping is about.
I decided I would go on this, I would travel.
I was thinking that the traveling would help
put me in situations that would help me face
reality on real time in its terms. to get me
out of the routine and to get me out there in
terms of interacting with people. And the traveling
helps me stay in the moment. You know, it's a
beautiful thing. I tell you, it's exceeded my
expectations of what I thought this would be.
So for the last three years, what I've been doing
is in January, I load up my Jeep. I'd take off
for the six -month trip. I'll loosely plan a
few destinations, but for the most part, I deliberately
leave it loose so that I could just pretty much
go with the flow wherever the energy was. I wasn't
uptight about any type of time schedule other
than I'll return to Cleveland in June, which
happens to be the same month as my birthday.
It all just fits nicely. This being my third
year, last year what I did was it just, it was
life changing. Last year what I did was I started
a company that helps other people go through
what I've been experiencing. So I've been putting
together outdoor adventure activities for groups
of people to come out and experience nature for
what it is. It's something about being out there
in the forest that for me, it's calming. It's
like me being a designer. I'm real sensitive
to my environment visually and physically, emotionally.
I think I feel more than I see. So in other words,
when I'm in the city, to me, what I hear is noise
and what I see is chaos and just clutter. To
me, visually, being in the city is, to put it
frank, often it's ugly. Everything just flows.
I mean, between the sounds, the colors, it's
a whole different space out there. So the tripping
company, Set Trippin, I put that together to
share what I've learned. That is so very powerful.
The first question, me saying, why did you join?
He said, because you asked. And then the second
question, one of the most pivotal points in your
process, in your journey, was that you asked
for help, right? And then you asked yourself
again, once you reclaimed your life, what am
I going to do with this new found life that I
have? And how am I going to live it differently?
And and then you asked yourself again, how can
I share this with other people? Because this
is not just something that I needed, but to avoid.
It sounds like the continuous isolation of I'm
going to go on these journeys. You're also inviting
people in, asking people to join you or asking
people if this is what they also need and how
you can facilitate that for them. It's a beautiful
thing. It really is. It really is. And I applaud
you for being so bold to reclaim your life, right?
And to use that list of things that you always
wanted to do in real time to redefine who you
were and not just allow it to stay in the space
of a dream in one day, but to make it real and
current. time so that you could experience it
and that you realize that you deserved experiencing
it yes and now it's on steroids it's a practice
every day of living that way it's it's a choice
every day every second of me being sober and
to be honest with you I think the life that I
have now was the life that I wanted to have in
my mind when I was drinking But the alcohol never
even got me nowhere close to how my life is today.
In terms of the connection with other people,
the experiences that I have, I call it artificial.
So I can't see myself going back to that lifestyle
of where I was. That's powerful. So because we're
talking a little bit, well, we're talking quite
a bit about your journey. In your experience,
how do systemic factors like racism and economic
pressures contribute to substance use in Black
communities? Of course, that's a loaded question.
I mean, there's tons of stuff inside that question.
And you're absolutely right. You're spot on that.
I think there's this weight that's on us, us
being our people. And I think it's different.
I think it's different for women. There's a pressure
that's on us. And it's real. It really is. I
think that that's why a lot of folks turn to
the alcohol or that type of behavior. I think
it's a learned thing. I believe that's how I
started. I grew up with a family. It's a loving
family. When we got together, there would always
be alcohol involved. And so I always thought
that, you know, that was just a part of life.
You know, everybody drank. And I thought that's
just what you do when you grow up. That it's
become so much a part of our culture, our thing.
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you for your continued support and let's keep
the conversation going. Yeah. Yeah. I often,
you know, think about how, and I am a drinker,
so I have to be very honest about that in that,
I mean, I've also dealt with the impacts of alcoholism
in my personal and professional life. And that,
has given me some different insight into alcohol
use, substance use, and how we are so socialized
and oftentimes pressured into using alcohol.
We think about peer pressure when we're... going
into puberty, when we're teenagers, preteens,
all that good stuff, you know, health class,
if there's still a health class, I hope there
is. My health class was, you know, constantly
talking about things like peer pressure and how
to avoid them, avoid peer pressure. But what
we, what I saw happening in my adult years was
that peer pressure continues. And sometimes it
continues in the workspace. Some of my close
friends, family members, I saw developing and
having an active alcohol problem because of their
professional networks and what was accepted,
what was expected from their peers, from their
boss, the social environment that they were in.
One example was in banking. You know, when I
lived in New York, I had a close friend who was,
you know. Work for the big companies. I'm not
going to name any names and wind up in trouble.
But some of those big, big companies that we
think about on Wall Street and the idea that
they had carts of liquor that would come around
during the day, that it was expected that they
would go out after work and drink and not just
have a drink, but to drink a lot. The fact that,
on another hand... I've heard in the sales industry
in particular, there is a lot of drug and substance
use. And so we oftentimes think about, you know,
even the pressure of racism within workplaces
where it's like you need to be a part of the
in crowd, right? You need to be close to your
boss in order to get that promotion. And so in
order to do that, you have to kind of emulate
those same. cultures, those same values, those
same behaviors in order to have that quote unquote
quality time with those people in order to aid
you in your process to advance. And then not
to mention, like we talked about, just our family
structures, traditions. I know that I have some
traditions related to alcohol in my family, and
a lot of it is festive. A lot of it is paired
with very good times and celebration. And some
of it is paired with when we're sad and grieving
and methods to get numb some of that pain and
help us to get through, quote unquote, some of
that pain. And so those things play themselves
out in that some people actually struggle with
that alcohol use and outside of those isolated
or what may be perceived as isolated. events
continue into day -to -day functioning. And so
I just really appreciate where you're coming
from in regard to how these different communities
and groups and networks that we're connected
to and how that contributes to alcoholism and
how accepted it is as opposed to what we consider
when we think about cocaine or crack or even
heroin and the whole pandemic that we're facing
in that regard of substances or even how people
conceive of now the challenge is, you know, we
have these gangs that are pushing drugs as opposed
to, no, it's right there on the corner. It's
in every ad. It's in every movie. It's in every
it's everywhere you go. So let's think about,
you know, how are we creating spaces where people
can be fulfill health and joy without this alcohol
or drugs encroaching on experience? Right. And
I could give you another example. I was in the
Marine Corps and my first year in, I went overseas
and. I walk into the squad bay. And the first
thing I see is beer machines. They actually had
beer machines in the barracks. And I was just
fascinated by that to this day. Like, why would
they put a vending machine of beer inside the
barracks? It's like, so in the Marine Corps,
there's, and probably the other services, it's
not written down anywhere, but it's this undertone
of party hard, like it's your last day. And so.
Here at the Marine Corps, you get all these young
individuals that are healthy and clear -headed.
And to me, they're like a factory. I actually
have this contempt for the Marine Corps because
I believe that there's more that they could do
to not have that type of environment. And it
really could be the opposite. They could be taking
these young men and really helping them develop
into the people that they should be. Why they
don't, I don't know, but I believe it's deliberate.
I went in the Marine Corps with the idea that,
okay, within the four years I was... The game
plan was I would have my associate by the time
I got out. The first, in other words, I would
work and go to school to sort of make my time.
My first three years in the Marine Corps was
just a blur. It was like I joined, and then next
thing I knew, I was waking up three years later,
realizing that I'm getting out next year. And
so then I started looking into going to school.
finally and when i looked into that they do offer
the courses but the courses are crap and sorry
the credits that i earned while i was in the
marine corps didn't even transfer over to the
schools they it it's it would be these one room
um type of facilities that are i guess what i'm
i'm trying to point out the difference uh between
the things that the marine corps do to help build
up The individuals, they'll have these elaborate
enlisted men clubs, e -clubs, where it's state
-of -the -art. And then for the education system
programs that they have going on, it's pretty
much antiquated type of situations that no one
even uses the services. And so I believe it's
because of the environment that they foster.
while you're in there. I don't think they want
people to develop. But I just wanted to mention
that for people thinking about the military.
So when my younger cousins ask me about joining
the military, I tell them don't. The divorce
rate in the military is through the roof. The
suicide rate is through the roof. It's an environment
that's not, well, that's toxic, actually. If
you don't have to. It wasn't all bad for me.
I was at a time when I wasn't sure what I was
going to do with my life. And so I thought that
that would be some positive time I could spend
in the Marine Corps figuring it out. But the
racism and all of the other isms is alive and
well in the military. Not to be, if you are going
to go in there, to be clear about what you're
going to do and do it. Yeah. Yeah. So that's
another major area and pathway, you know, a profession,
a training ground that we have to be very honest
with ourselves, with our youth about what are
those options really yield? What do they really
look like? And what are the things that you need
to be cognizant of if that winds up being the
best option for you? You know, if you are in
there, you need to kind of come equipped. and
be very honest about what are some of the pitfalls
that might come along the way. So one of the
other questions that I have is, you know, how
has, and you kind of touched on this a little
bit, but how would you say reconnecting with
nature? You know, so we talked about, you know,
our families, we've talked about traditions,
we've talked about... work spaces, societal problems,
and all those things. But how has nature, reconnecting
with nature, played a role in your healing and
your recovering process? It's played a major
role in it. For me, when I'm out there, it puts
me in the moment, in the present. It's hard to
be wondering about if I left the iron on when
you're out in the middle of the forest. To me,
it slows things down. It's everything. I mean,
it's where life makes sense for me. I've had
some of the best sleep out there, and food always
tastes better out there, no matter what it is.
I'm not sure why. And then also, I've noticed
that when I take groups out, it happens routinely.
My job when I take groups out is really I focus
on the safety of what we're doing and everyone
being prepared. And it's really nature that does
the magic when we're out there in terms of having
groups bind together. I've often seen issues
that people had inside come out just because
the only difference is that we're out in the
middle of the forest. It's something about that
experience that does that. That's interesting.
It kind of helps people shed some of the outer
parts, distractions, and kind of focus in on
what really matters in that moment. Exactly.
It also teaches life lessons, like being out
there, you can't take everything with you. And
so it's the thing of you're committing by saying,
okay, I'm only going to take this, this. So there's
a commitment involved. Often what I learned out
of nature translates directly to how I behave
here in the city. I learned that there's a lot
of things inside the city that I don't need,
that I could survive without. I don't have to
have, you know, the flat screen TV and the hundred
channel cable channel. Living with just a few
things can be just as fulfilling as being in
the city. Actually, to me, it's better out there
as to having everything I need, I would want
inside the city. It's a huge difference. So kind
of getting to the core of the issue is shedding
away all of these extraneous distractions and
being able to focus on what's really important,
what's really necessary. And redefining what
happiness and satisfaction is. So one of the
other things that you mentioned about your journey
is related to isolation. And one of the things
that I understand is that isolation can be a
common experience among Black men. How has isolation
impacted your mental health and your entrepreneurial
journey? It seems like your, you know, concepts
of isolation. you know, have have either been
a motivator or the opposite. Exactly. Exactly.
And you're right. You're pointing out there's
two different types of isolations that I've been
talking about. And there was the one when I was
drinking, when I was in my addiction, I'd isolated
myself. And I guess the difference is, is it
was more like. I think I was hiding when I was
in my addiction. It was an isolation where it
was avoiding being present, avoiding showing
up, avoiding engagement, avoiding, it wasn't
really living, avoiding life, like, you know,
just kind of hanging out on the fringe. And to
be honest with you, back then, I was quite cool
with that. And in fact, I used to call myself
the fat cat in the back. Like, I didn't have
to be out in front and with all these folks in
my job. I'm working with people with, well, I'm
connected to several events throughout the year.
I could be out in the middle of all these experiences
with people, but I chose not to. And I was cool
with that. So that type of isolation was more
along the toxic kind of that's not really living.
Actually, I think that's just dying, waiting
to die. Whereas in today's me being sober, it's
more like. I wouldn't even use the word isolation.
Well, but it's the same meaning. But I guess
the way it serves me now is that I use that time
when I'm solo to check myself. I repeat this
process that I've gone through with sobriety
every second, every hour, every day, acceptance,
taking self -inventory on myself. There's a number
of things that... that I just constantly do.
When I'm in nature or isolated, it gives me time
to sort through these ideas, meditating, to sort
of recenter myself on these trips. And it's not
used in that toxic way that I used to do before,
but really more to elevate me, to clear my lenses
of how I see things. It gives me time to reflect
on life. More so today it propels me forward
than it does hold me back. Yeah. And it's interesting
how, you know, when you first started talking
about isolation in the midst of the addiction,
it was almost like you were just existing. Like
you say, kind of just waiting to die. But and
that's really powerful because I think a lot
of people that are going to watch this or listen
to it. are going to be able to identify with
that there are a lot of us who are just existing
or waiting to die just kind of you know checking
the boxes just kind of going through the motions
right but then you know right i used to say well
i'm gonna die from something i might as well
you know live this way do my thing i'd rather
go out this way than I remember reading the disclaimer
on the package of cigarettes. It says it's toxic
for you. And so I'm smoking a cigarette and reading
it. Right. And the alcohol, I knew it was hurting
me. It was damaging. But I figured, you know,
life sucks. This is just the way that it is.
And, you know, I think what happened. i really
start to feel the the weight of my drinking i
mean i i drink a lot when i say i drink a lot
i drink a lot and uh whatever you think is a
lot double that i drink all day every day for
decades and um and it well okay to put it short
basically it's a it attitude it doesn't really
matter it and Today, it does matter for me. It's
showing up and being present and a clear crystal,
clear mind is everything. It's everything. I
asked myself a question. It's sort of a rhetorical
question. So it's really a conversation that
I have with myself. And so I'll ask myself, so
if I knew that the world would end a day tomorrow
or two or three days from now, would you drink?
Would I drink? Would I pick up? What would I
do? And the answer to that changes. So I sort
of ask myself that when I'm checking in with
myself to just give as a barometer how I'm feeling,
what I'm thinking about. And I would like to
think that I wouldn't. I would like to think
that those last days, I want to be clear -minded
to enjoy those last times. with a clear head
as opposed to a fog, you know, drinking myself
into oblivion and not even remembering or experiencing
engaged with any of it. So let's discuss this
term that I understand gets under your skin,
like irritates you. Functional alcoholism. Yeah,
yeah. Why doesn't this term resonate with you?
And what alternative language do you prefer?
Let's talk about what is functional alcoholism
or the perception of it. Yeah. Right. So that's
a term that in our culture, I think that term
right there is hurting us big time. So it's sort
of like saying it's okay to... to drink in excess
we acknowledge okay he's an alcoholic or she's
an alcoholic but she's functioning she's doing
all right well she she's she has a job a nice
job educated you know how bad could it be well
yeah it's bad that's the thing about addictions
the addictions that don't tell on themselves
does that to further itself those are the bad
ones those are the ones that are killers because
the consequences are delayed and that's what
the alcoholism is doing to our community and
on the death certificate they don't put down
alcoholism they say cirrhosis of the liver or
they'll define everything else other than alcohol
but the real the reality is the alcohol is killing
our community and a functioning alcoholic is
not something to praise or or oh that's nice
that's saying you know your survivor as opposed
to praising people for healing using that same
energy functioning alcoholic so for me when i
hear that term i just make it a point even when
I don't want to bring it up, don't feel like
getting into the whole conversation, I just make
it a point to say what I want to say about that
term, to do my part, to say, hey, this is not
cool. I had a cousin that passed away recently,
and it was alcoholism, to put it bluntly. And
so we're out hanging with each other, and we're
not. being upfront and honest with each other.
Like when I was in my addiction, it was people
telling me that, hey, this is a problem that
helped me to see. So when I was in my funk, I
couldn't really, my reality was distorted. So
these outside voices, these words that we hear
help on that road to recover. The words that...
that are wrapped in reality do help people on
that course to reality saying, hey, this is not
cool and this isn't accepted. And because when
we're in our addiction, we hear those words.
We may not respond to them directly, but it's
important to step up and share how you feel and
express your point about these things that are
hurting us. That's a wrap on this episode of
Questions You Didn't Ask. I'm Nyesha Frey, and
it's been a privilege to speak with Charles Chambers,
founder of Set Trippin' Outdoor Adventures. His
reflections on freedom, recovery, and reclaiming
space set the stage for what's ahead. Join me
next time as Trippin' Black Men, Land, and Liberation
continues.