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Welcome back to Questions You Didn't Ask. I'm
Nyesha Frey, joined again by the brilliant Dr.
Elena Roberts as we continue. Sankofa and Solidarity,
Uncovering Black and Native Legacies for Health
Equity. Let's dive back in. Yeah, that was the
part that hurt, right? The reason why it hurt
was because at the time, and I'm not sure why
he felt the need to denigrate Native Americans
beyond it being a political maneuver, right?
that could potentially benefit African -American
people, Black people. And that it was a similar
calculation that Native American people took
as it related to, is it better for us to align
ourselves with more Black people or for us to
align ourselves with more white people, right?
And so from that is why I say we realize that
Frederick Douglass up on our pedestal. of being
an amazing abolitionist, orator, freedom fighter
for the rights and lives and dignity of Black
people, reveals himself to be human in that he's
making calculated moves to position Black people
politically above Native American people. And
because hindsight is 20 -20. we can now reflect
on, was that the right calculation? And I'm not
asking you to answer that question because that
would require a magic ball, right? A crystal
ball, right? Which I don't have. And I'm assuming
you don't. But what we can do is think about
broader solidarity and future action. We can
learn. from what has happened in the past in
that what we see with Tulsa, what we see in the
evidence of what has happened with the five tribes
and their tribal nations and their land and how
different Native American peoples have been put
onto limited reservations and cut off from so
many. opportunities to advance their communities
and realize and advance things like health equity,
right? Is that we can look back and see that
calculation didn't actually work out for either
one of us. It didn't work out. So how do the
struggles and histories of Black, Native, and
I'm even going to throw in their Latino communities
because I see some overlap and it also kind of
relates to another series that I did with one
of my colleagues who happens to be Latino, how
does this intersect? Because we have these minority
communities that they have to make that calculated
political alignment. And what we keep seeing
and finding is that, especially in real time,
it's not necessarily working out on their behalf
as we're seeing all these, you know, really destructive
and traumatizing deportations of our Latino brothers
and sisters, whether they feel like we're brothers
and sisters or not. They are being treated like
they were our brothers and sisters in the sense
of their humanity being denigrated. So when we
think about that, do you see how our histories,
our struggles can help us move forward where
there could potentially be some cross -community
solidarity? Well, I mean, unfortunately, this
is the perfect moment to see kind of, as you
mentioned, that we have to have that solidarity
or else we're all going to be kind of equally
hurt. Yeah, I mean, you have part of the very
diverse and broad Latino community voting for
Trump. You have a number of Lumbees in North
Carolina voting for Trump. I think a lot of people.
see Native Americans as progressive and Democrat
voters, and that's not necessarily the case,
because a lot of them are rural and conservative.
So the moment we're in, I think, when we're seeing
all non -white histories, you know, deleted off
web pages and programs meant to help, you know,
in the public health space or in the sciences,
anything focusing on anyone who's not white,
you know, there goes your money. We're all in
the same boat. Yes. So kind of when I am I'm
working on a project right now, my second book,
looking at this kind of more modern day moment,
basically where people are now more kind of aware
of or understanding these histories. And really,
I'm asking this question, like, how can we bring
these to bear on what we're going through today?
How can we kind of help? the Chickasaw Nation
and the Choctaw Nation and really all of these
nations to understand, acknowledging your history
is not a weakness because actually you would
look far better than the United States right
now, right? Kind of acknowledging that, but then
also doing more to include Black people and include
other people who are vulnerable because you actually
right now, you have these safe spaces like the
state governments and even the federal government
to an extent. cannot do certain things to tribal
citizens who are on tribal land. And so actually
there's an opportunity for these to be spaces
that can be more progressive no matter where
they are because of that special nation to nation
relationship Indian nations have with the United
States. So it's getting to see people, like it's
getting people to see where we are and how we
can help one another instead of continuing to
let ourselves be divided by this. ideology that
is not going to save us, clearly. Clearly, it
is not going to save us, hasn't saved us, and
continues to hurt, harm, put us in danger, and
ultimately kill us. As you mentioned, what's
happening with the public health infrastructure
and governmental agencies and institutions is
a dismantling of an opportunity for us to continue
to be leaders in health, health care, health
innovation, health technology, leaders in health
equity for the world. That's what we are, you
know, regardless of how expensive it is. People
look to America for good reason, for leading
the way in terms of health innovation. and providing
the example of how to be inclusive, how to be
diverse, how to reach target populations, various
diverse target populations. And so the very specific
targeted approach to dismantle that is, to me,
an act of terrorism and murder. Because what
we will see is that by taking resources away,
from marginalized communities, Black, Native,
Latino communities from the federal government.
And even though we have Native nations, Indian
nations, they do benefit from federal grants
to study the health and well -being, as well
as to serve the health and well -being needs
of their communities. And so when that spigot
is cut off, what we are signing up for. is less
resources to maintain or improve or save the
lives of our loved ones. And so that is the reason
why I make the bold statement that this is a
murderous policy and agenda to try to further
deepen these health disparities. And as I mentioned
earlier, these are real lives. These are real
communities. As I've shared on my podcast before,
how they impact me and my family on a daily basis
and why that informs me and the work that I do
and motivates me to keep moving forward. And
so given your expertise and when we think about,
you know, one of the things that I also think
about is how a lot of our elected officials have
let us down, are letting us down, right? They
have a really tough job. It was hard before January
20th, 2025. And it has just gotten harder. So
I do want to give that balance to the equation.
But for a lot of us, we see that they are letting
us down. And not only our elected officials,
but our business owners, our corporations, our
private philanthropic organizations, even our
professional organizations, they are letting
us down. So what we're also tasked with then
is that if these people who claim to be our quote
unquote leaders are leaving us high and dry to
allow this 47th executive administration to plow
us down in real time, take our jobs, take our
resources, take our health care. then what can
we as individuals do? If the leaders won't lead,
what can we do? So when we think about your expertise
and kind of the angle at which you look at and
analyze our history and our current state, what
action should everyday people, potentially scholars,
who are probably reeling, I know they are because
I work with them, from all of these pullbacks
and restraints? Those policymakers that might
be young in the process or potentially yearning
to make a stronger impact. What can we do to
amplify these hidden histories so that we can
be better informed to advocate for justice? What
are some of the things that you can imagine we
can do? I mean, I've been asking myself that
question and I. I've been. doing little things
like i uh what is it called five there's this
website called fivecalls .org where you can you
put in your address and then it tells you who
your representatives if you don't know and like
uh how to contact your congress people and your
senators and so whenever there is an issue which
there always is every day often multiple issues
like i call those people and i say you know please
vote against this thing or Please do not vote
to confirm this person. Does it do anything?
Sometimes it does. Sometimes it doesn't. But
either way, it makes me feel as though at least
they had to hear my voice. You know, at least
they had to understand that someone they represent
is really annoyed at something they did, even
if they ignore me. Then there are. So my organization
or my my employer is the university, of course,
and so. Columbia, Columbia University, just kind
of pre capitulated to President Trump. And so
I actually am talking to my chair right now,
the chair of my department to say, how can we
kind of talk to our university leaders right
now and say, don't do this, basically, like,
don't wait until it happens. But to say, we are
on your side, we support you. And like, please
don't give in. Then on an individual level, like
I've just been making connections with people,
like making connections with Native folks. Like
anytime I meet someone who is Chickasaw or Choctaw,
anytime I see someone who's like a university
professor or in some place where I can reach
them, like email them or whatever, I always just
kind of reach out to them and say, like, are
you aware of this history? Can I talk to you
about this history? Do you support, you know,
giving freedmen citizenship in your nation? And
I'm like, Maybe I can hit a hundred people eventually.
Like maybe I can hit a thousand. Anyone I can
just talk to on a human to human level and say,
this is my family's history. This is how it intersects
with your family's history. Please on a human
level, at least like, can this mean something?
And maybe I can grow a movement that way. Like
that's sort of my hope. But even if that doesn't
come true, I don't want to feel as though I failed
because it's better than nothing. And it's kind
of what's getting me. through this, like doing
my own little part of my own little subfield,
because that's, that's what I can do. Like, that's
my specialty. That's what I feel maybe most comfortable
doing aside from like, you know, larger protests
or things like that. And I think if we all kind
of make our own little movement in our own little
subfield or our own little community, hopefully
that can get us somewhere because it's really
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you for your continued support and let's keep
the conversation going it is it is and i just
have to tell you thank you for being a light
You are a light. I am thankful for you joining
us and helping us to spread the word about this
very important history, about this history that
is not meant for us. I mean, get mad. You're
going to get mad. You're going to get mad. Get
mad. Do it. And then start to figure out how
we can use this to be a lesson learned, right?
How can we use this to help? us strategize differently,
for us to think differently about who we are,
right? And who our allies could be. And when
you know who your allies could be, you also know
you got to get past certain challenges before
you can get to the meat of embracing each other,
right? So being more informed about those potential
allies, because again, I think going back to
our earlier conversation, we oftentimes romanticize.
Native communities re -romanticize a lot of,
you know, Seminoles. I went to school in Florida.
I also, you know, am an alumnus of Columbia.
I'm very upset about what's happening. And I'm
seeing my colleagues dealing with it at their
own institutions. University of Michigan just
noted that they rolled back their DEI. I know
University of California just rolled back theirs.
And so these are very daunting times, but we're
having these conversations regardless because
they are very much needed and necessary. Two
things before we wrap up. One is thank you for
all of the shout outs. I wanted to give Bria
Baker's book a little bit more of a shout out,
Rooted, The American Legacy of Land Theft. and
the Modern Movement for Black Land Ownership.
Are there any other organizations that you would
like our community to know about, to books, websites
that you really, really enjoy or get a lot from
that you think deserve a bit of a boost, if you
will? There might be some of your favorites you
want to share. If you happen to be listening
to this and you are a freedman or you later on
do family history and discover that you are,
I want to point you toward the Choctaw Chickasaw
Freedmen Association. They have a web page that
isn't always updated, but they have a good amount
of information and a lot of places kind of to
start doing that genealogy and also to maybe
hopefully get involved in kind of the advocacy
that I'm doing for citizenship. Then I guess
I also mentioned Taya Miles's book. It's called
Ties That Bind. So she's the OG, as they say.
She really kind of started this subfield. And
I just have so much respect for her and her work.
And a lot of, some of, she handles things in
a different way. And that history is different.
I mean, these are nations, you know, the Cherokee
Nation's history is different from the Chickasaw
and Choctaw Nations. But it also goes a lot more
into, you know, sexual assault of Black women
in the turkey nation and kind of the identity
issues that come from being Black in a Native
nation in the way that my book don't. So that
would be kind of maybe something to read alongside
my book. All right. That is awesome. The last
question that I tend to ask my guests because
of the title, what are the questions that I didn't
ask that maybe we should be so bold as to ask
in the future? Not even kidding. We covered so
much. This is, I don't know, the best or one
of the best interviews I've ever done. You're
an amazing interviewer. Oh, I'm so glad. I'm
so glad to hear that. We always are looking for
positive feedback and always looking to plant
seeds. I mean, you mentioned how your work, your
efforts, whether it's five calls, which I'm also
a fan of, and your efforts to connect with people,
I think is so important. We have to connect with
people. We have to share what it is that we know.
And remember that as crazy as the world is, There
are still good people in the world. There are
still people who are open, who want to listen,
who want to learn, who want to grow, who need
the opportunity to even know that this is a question
to ask, a topic to explore. And so I am super
glad that these are some of the things that you
were doing. And I just want to encourage you
to continue to plant those seeds. You know, our
ancestors. you know, planted lots of seeds. And
we are now benefiting from many of them. If we
think about, you know, our grandparents, our
great -grandparents, and the saying that is becoming
more and more popular, we are our ancestors'
wildest dreams. You know, there were things that
they imagined for their children and their children's
children that they knew in the time that they
were here would probably never happen in their
lifetime. But because of their perseverance and
because of the seeds that they sowed, we are
here. We are still here and we are a blessing
and we continue to try to be a blessing to others.
And I just want to continue to support you and
let you know your scholarship matters. Your family
matters. Your family history matters. Your ancestors
matter. And I'm so glad that I had the chance
to fangirl with you today on questions you didn't
ask and that you were able to be a part of this
wonderful journey with me. thank you you're about
to make me cry thank you so much for having me
bless you darling all right well thank you to
all our listeners for tuning in we are so excited
to be back and as you can see this is season
four series one of questions you demand