WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.500 Hey y 'all, welcome to Questions You Didn't Ask. 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:07.179 Did you know that this very spot could be showcasing 00:00:07.179 --> 00:00:10.320 your business or event? Whether it's an audio 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.460 ad on our podcast, or a visual ad on our new 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:18.100 YouTube station, or even both, we've got the 00:00:18.100 --> 00:00:21.620 space for you. Nyesha Frey Consulting is reaching 00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:24.420 a growing audience of over a thousand leaders 00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:27.839 who are passionate about health equity, social 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:32.070 justice, and civil rights activism. These are 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:35.329 professionals just like you working across higher 00:00:35.329 --> 00:00:40.409 education, research, healthcare, nonprofit, government, 00:00:40.590 --> 00:00:44.030 and even public health sectors. If you're ready 00:00:44.030 --> 00:00:46.630 to get your message in front of a dedicated and 00:00:46.630 --> 00:00:52.469 engaged audience, send me an email at naishafrayconsultingllc 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:57.149 at gmail .com. Let's talk about how we can help 00:00:57.149 --> 00:00:59.710 you connect with the people who need to hear 00:00:59.710 --> 00:01:02.829 about your services and products that advance 00:01:02.829 --> 00:01:06.969 health equity and wellness. Don't miss out. Get 00:01:06.969 --> 00:01:09.250 in the mix and let's make an impact together. 00:01:20.510 --> 00:01:23.250 Thank you. Thank you for joining us on Questions 00:01:23.250 --> 00:01:26.810 You Didn't Ask for our fourth season. Whether 00:01:26.810 --> 00:01:29.069 you're a longtime listener or joining us for 00:01:29.069 --> 00:01:32.629 the first time, welcome. Today, we embark on 00:01:32.629 --> 00:01:35.030 a journey to connect history with our fight for 00:01:35.030 --> 00:01:38.890 health equity. A journey that is as much about 00:01:38.890 --> 00:01:42.730 uncovering untold stories as it is about inspiring 00:01:42.730 --> 00:01:48.109 real world action. This series, Sankofa in Solidarity, 00:01:48.269 --> 00:01:51.230 uncovering Black and Native legacies for health 00:01:51.230 --> 00:01:54.319 equity. sets the stage for a powerful discussion 00:01:54.319 --> 00:01:57.060 that looks back at our past to build a better 00:01:57.060 --> 00:02:00.120 future. I'm honored to introduce our guest, Dr. 00:02:00.260 --> 00:02:03.519 Elena E. Roberts, Associate Professor of History 00:02:03.519 --> 00:02:06.180 at the University of Pittsburgh and award -winning 00:02:06.180 --> 00:02:09.900 author of I've Been Here All the While, Black 00:02:09.900 --> 00:02:13.539 Freedom on Native Land. Dr. Roberts' groundbreaking 00:02:13.539 --> 00:02:17.080 work reveals the hidden narratives of Black and 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:19.789 Native American communities. Stories that have 00:02:19.789 --> 00:02:22.590 been largely overlooked in mainstream history. 00:02:23.189 --> 00:02:26.110 Before we dive into our conversation, let's take 00:02:26.110 --> 00:02:28.729 a moment to understand some key facts about health 00:02:28.729 --> 00:02:31.689 disparities affecting these communities. Facts 00:02:31.689 --> 00:02:34.389 that underscore why this discussion is so critical. 00:02:35.210 --> 00:02:38.270 Maternal health. African -American women experience 00:02:38.270 --> 00:02:41.030 a maternal mortality rate nearly three times 00:02:41.030 --> 00:02:43.169 higher than that of white women, according to 00:02:43.169 --> 00:02:48.409 CDC in 2020. Diabetes prevalence. Native American 00:02:48.409 --> 00:02:51.150 communities face diabetes rates that are two 00:02:51.150 --> 00:02:54.469 to three times higher than the national average, 00:02:54.729 --> 00:02:57.650 a disparity that contributes to reduced quality 00:02:57.650 --> 00:03:01.289 of life and early mortality, according to the 00:03:01.289 --> 00:03:05.789 Indian Health Service in 2020. Infant mortality. 00:03:06.110 --> 00:03:09.389 While African American infants suffer from higher 00:03:09.389 --> 00:03:11.889 mortality rates compared to the national average, 00:03:12.490 --> 00:03:14.849 Native American communities also struggle with 00:03:14.849 --> 00:03:17.710 significantly elevated infant mortality rates. 00:03:17.909 --> 00:03:20.889 Studies show rates for Native American infants 00:03:20.889 --> 00:03:23.530 can be nearly double those of white infants. 00:03:23.870 --> 00:03:26.509 This is according to the National Center for 00:03:26.509 --> 00:03:31.469 Health Statistics as of 2019. Both African American 00:03:31.469 --> 00:03:34.830 and Native American communities share the burden 00:03:34.830 --> 00:03:38.319 of systemic inequities. For example, While African 00:03:38.319 --> 00:03:40.819 Americans face critical challenges in maternal 00:03:40.819 --> 00:03:44.080 and cardiovascular health, Native Americans are 00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:46.900 disproportionately impacted by chronic conditions 00:03:46.900 --> 00:03:51.180 such as diabetes, substance abuse, and mental 00:03:51.180 --> 00:03:54.520 health issues. These statistics are not just 00:03:54.520 --> 00:03:58.599 numbers. They represent real lives and communities 00:03:58.599 --> 00:04:02.139 in urgent need of better systems of care and 00:04:02.139 --> 00:04:05.400 opportunity. As the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation 00:04:05.400 --> 00:04:09.719 explains, Health equity means that everyone has 00:04:09.719 --> 00:04:13.360 a fair and just opportunity to be as healthy 00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:16.600 as possible. This requires removing obstacles 00:04:16.600 --> 00:04:20.759 such as poverty, discrimination, and systemic 00:04:20.759 --> 00:04:24.079 barriers. Today's conversation is about learning 00:04:24.079 --> 00:04:27.720 from the past, a Sankofa approach, to build pathways 00:04:27.720 --> 00:04:30.699 toward genuine solidarity and collective action. 00:04:31.100 --> 00:04:34.579 In this series, we will explore bridging history 00:04:34.579 --> 00:04:37.470 and health equity. How can the hidden histories 00:04:37.470 --> 00:04:40.069 of Black and Native American communities inform 00:04:40.069 --> 00:04:43.149 our strategies to dismantle systemic barriers? 00:04:43.750 --> 00:04:47.110 The narrative of, I got Indian in my family. 00:04:47.529 --> 00:04:50.850 What does this expression mean within Black culture? 00:04:51.009 --> 00:04:54.649 And why does it carry both pride and a call for 00:04:54.649 --> 00:04:58.889 unity? Conversely, why is there less acknowledgement 00:04:58.889 --> 00:05:01.730 of African ancestry among Native communities? 00:05:02.730 --> 00:05:06.079 Solidarity and collective action. What? concrete 00:05:06.079 --> 00:05:09.360 steps can be taken to forge true alliances between 00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:13.560 Black, Native, and Latino communities to address 00:05:13.560 --> 00:05:17.680 health disparities head -on. Dr. Roberts' work 00:05:17.680 --> 00:05:20.720 has been profiled by CNN, The New York Times, 00:05:21.079 --> 00:05:25.160 The Atlantic, and Al Jazeera, among others. Her 00:05:25.160 --> 00:05:27.980 research not only challenges mainstream historical 00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:31.360 narratives, but also provides crucial insights 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.379 into how social determinants such as access to 00:05:34.379 --> 00:05:37.680 quality education, housing, and healthcare, shaped 00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:41.360 the lives of marginalized groups. I began my 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:43.899 own journey into these topics as I organized 00:05:43.899 --> 00:05:46.279 collaborative efforts to advance health equity 00:05:46.279 --> 00:05:49.800 in Northeast North Carolina, a region where Black 00:05:49.800 --> 00:05:52.699 and Native communities, despite being the majority, 00:05:53.120 --> 00:05:56.079 continue to suffer from severe health disparities 00:05:56.079 --> 00:06:00.379 due to historic and systemic oppression and neglect. 00:06:02.000 --> 00:06:05.079 Today, our conversation isn't just academic. 00:06:05.240 --> 00:06:08.939 It's a call to action. We're here to challenge 00:06:08.939 --> 00:06:12.240 our assumptions, break down barriers, and envision 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:16.180 a future where our shared histories empower us 00:06:16.180 --> 00:06:20.579 to create systems that uplift everyone. As I 00:06:20.579 --> 00:06:24.660 always say, as leaders, it is our responsibility 00:06:24.660 --> 00:06:28.720 to dismantle systemic inequities and rebuild 00:06:28.720 --> 00:06:33.089 systems that uplift everyone. So join us as we 00:06:33.089 --> 00:06:36.629 break the silence, confront our own biases, and 00:06:36.629 --> 00:06:40.709 explore the powerful lessons from our past. Let's 00:06:40.709 --> 00:06:43.949 learn together and forge a future where health 00:06:43.949 --> 00:06:47.250 equity and social justice are not just ideals, 00:06:47.430 --> 00:06:51.389 but realities for Black, Native, and all marginalized 00:06:51.389 --> 00:06:54.829 communities. Thank you for being here. Together, 00:06:54.930 --> 00:06:57.689 we can transform our history into a catalyst 00:06:57.689 --> 00:07:01.639 for change. Thank you so much, Dr. Roberts, for 00:07:01.639 --> 00:07:04.620 joining us today. Let's jump right into this 00:07:04.620 --> 00:07:08.519 discussion. My first question for you is my work 00:07:08.519 --> 00:07:12.040 in public health focuses on community -driven 00:07:12.040 --> 00:07:15.620 solutions to health equity problems. According 00:07:15.620 --> 00:07:19.060 to the Robert Wood Johnson Foundation, health 00:07:19.060 --> 00:07:22.800 equity requires removing obstacles such as poverty, 00:07:22.980 --> 00:07:26.680 discrimination, and systemic barriers. How does 00:07:26.680 --> 00:07:29.660 your work as a historian intersect with it? Well, 00:07:29.800 --> 00:07:32.519 I'm not sure that most people are aware of the 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:34.459 fact that both African -Americans and Native 00:07:34.459 --> 00:07:38.259 Americans are facing similar issues around poverty, 00:07:38.519 --> 00:07:41.160 around living in food deserts, discrimination. 00:07:41.899 --> 00:07:45.259 When people were talking about police violence 00:07:45.259 --> 00:07:47.639 against African -Americans, a lot of people were 00:07:47.639 --> 00:07:49.839 missing the fact that Native Americans also have 00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:53.459 a huge amount of police violence perpetuated 00:07:53.459 --> 00:07:57.480 in their communities. Life's work is really about 00:07:57.480 --> 00:07:59.740 bringing these historical narratives together 00:07:59.740 --> 00:08:02.480 to show people that the origins are very similar, 00:08:02.579 --> 00:08:05.240 that the origins of discrimination against Black 00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:07.439 people as well as Native people are both based 00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:13.180 in colonization, essentially. Yeah. So as it 00:08:13.180 --> 00:08:17.040 relates to that, that kind of uncharted territory, 00:08:17.240 --> 00:08:19.779 those connections that usually don't get made 00:08:19.779 --> 00:08:24.680 in mainstream consciousness or even communications, 00:08:24.839 --> 00:08:28.879 media, so on. What inspired you to join Questions 00:08:28.879 --> 00:08:31.279 You Didn't Ask and engage in this discussion 00:08:31.279 --> 00:08:34.200 today? Well, I think the work that you do is 00:08:34.200 --> 00:08:35.539 really wonderful, kind of bringing attention 00:08:35.539 --> 00:08:39.659 to the disparities in health outcomes and working 00:08:39.659 --> 00:08:42.679 towards solutions. The health of a community 00:08:42.679 --> 00:08:46.139 is about public health, but I think it's also 00:08:46.139 --> 00:08:48.830 about social health, mental health. the things 00:08:48.830 --> 00:08:51.590 i'm doing do relate to that i think if we're 00:08:51.590 --> 00:08:53.450 thinking holistically you know in terms of a 00:08:53.450 --> 00:08:56.330 person um and their kind of more you know spiritual 00:08:56.330 --> 00:08:58.269 and mental health along with their physical health 00:08:58.919 --> 00:09:01.580 Yeah, I'm really glad to hear that. You know, 00:09:01.600 --> 00:09:04.659 we think oftentimes of academic and research 00:09:04.659 --> 00:09:07.659 disciplines as being very, very siloed and very 00:09:07.659 --> 00:09:11.299 unique in so many ways. And really, when you 00:09:11.299 --> 00:09:13.279 get down into it, especially if you're concerned 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.419 about the people of a particular topic, you start 00:09:16.419 --> 00:09:19.139 to see more connections. And I think it sparks 00:09:19.139 --> 00:09:22.480 so many more questions, right? Questions that 00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:24.419 we didn't ask or questions that we were scared 00:09:24.419 --> 00:09:27.759 to ask or questions we thought were already asked. 00:09:28.409 --> 00:09:31.809 really haven't. So we're going to join in that 00:09:31.809 --> 00:09:36.610 journey today together for our audience. So I 00:09:36.610 --> 00:09:39.309 want you to start by sharing your journey and 00:09:39.309 --> 00:09:42.750 what led you to become an award -winning historian. 00:09:43.509 --> 00:09:49.169 A lot of personal angst. I had a lot of kind 00:09:49.169 --> 00:09:53.110 of identity crises when I was younger. I didn't 00:09:53.110 --> 00:09:55.870 feel like I fit in a box and humans are kind 00:09:55.870 --> 00:09:58.169 of program to you know put people into boxes 00:09:58.169 --> 00:10:01.090 uh based on what they look like or their interests 00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:04.990 and so in college as i was kind of trying to 00:10:04.990 --> 00:10:06.970 figure out you know what clubs do i fit in and 00:10:06.970 --> 00:10:09.029 you know do i want to join the newspaper do i 00:10:09.029 --> 00:10:11.309 want to join the black student union or a dance 00:10:11.309 --> 00:10:14.049 troupe or whatever i started talking to my dad 00:10:14.049 --> 00:10:18.889 about his family because to me I felt maybe if 00:10:18.889 --> 00:10:20.809 I can figure out, you know, how they felt about 00:10:20.809 --> 00:10:23.350 their own identity or where they fit, maybe that 00:10:23.350 --> 00:10:25.110 would give me some sort of insight about myself. 00:10:26.029 --> 00:10:28.769 And then I like discovered like that there was 00:10:28.769 --> 00:10:31.590 kind of this whole history about Native Americans 00:10:31.590 --> 00:10:34.389 who owned black slaves that I never knew that 00:10:34.389 --> 00:10:37.049 most people I talked to never knew. Even my father 00:10:37.049 --> 00:10:38.929 really didn't know the breadth of this history. 00:10:39.129 --> 00:10:43.049 And so I was excited to find out that my ancestors 00:10:43.049 --> 00:10:46.090 had been kind of. in a similar in -between space, 00:10:46.309 --> 00:10:49.129 not really fitting in any particular box, and 00:10:49.129 --> 00:10:51.590 that I could be the person, because there hadn't 00:10:51.590 --> 00:10:54.470 been that much work done on this topic, I could 00:10:54.470 --> 00:10:56.190 be the person to bring this history to other 00:10:56.190 --> 00:10:58.929 people and to educate them as I educated myself. 00:10:59.929 --> 00:11:03.870 Yeah, I think that that, you know, that also 00:11:03.870 --> 00:11:06.169 resonates with me in terms of how I came to be 00:11:06.169 --> 00:11:10.029 in the space that I'm in and how these formative 00:11:10.029 --> 00:11:14.049 years and this identity and coming into contact 00:11:14.049 --> 00:11:17.269 with our history through our parents through 00:11:17.269 --> 00:11:21.509 our elders um really guide and direct uh what 00:11:21.509 --> 00:11:25.870 gives us that fire that that flame uh and helps 00:11:25.870 --> 00:11:30.330 us to see where can i flourish not just personally 00:11:30.330 --> 00:11:33.409 but also professionally um and so i'm really 00:11:33.409 --> 00:11:36.090 i can read resonate with what you're saying about, 00:11:36.090 --> 00:11:38.570 you know, kind of digging in and trying to figure 00:11:38.570 --> 00:11:41.809 out who am I and how does this relate to who 00:11:41.809 --> 00:11:45.490 I'm going to be? So let's start to unpack some 00:11:45.490 --> 00:11:50.730 of these Black Native histories because you said 00:11:50.730 --> 00:11:54.549 the thing, right? The thing that like drew me 00:11:54.549 --> 00:11:58.610 in and was like, oh my gosh, how is it that as 00:11:58.610 --> 00:12:02.070 a Black woman who was raised in a Black family 00:12:02.070 --> 00:12:06.860 and deeply involved in the Black community and 00:12:06.860 --> 00:12:11.139 civil rights and being very interested in other 00:12:11.139 --> 00:12:15.799 cultures, other religions, other histories, as 00:12:15.799 --> 00:12:20.419 well as my own, how is it that I never knew that 00:12:20.419 --> 00:12:25.179 Native American peoples enslaved African peoples 00:12:25.179 --> 00:12:30.100 in this country? So let's talk about that a little 00:12:30.100 --> 00:12:33.299 bit. Who shaped and influenced your research 00:12:33.299 --> 00:12:35.899 on African -American and Native American history? 00:12:36.639 --> 00:12:43.320 There is, gosh, such a depth of the African -American 00:12:43.320 --> 00:12:47.100 experience that is still unexplored in scholarly 00:12:47.100 --> 00:12:50.559 spaces, but for the average person who's not 00:12:50.559 --> 00:12:53.580 an academic or doesn't even necessarily go to 00:12:53.580 --> 00:12:56.320 college, there are only certain kind of aspects 00:12:56.320 --> 00:12:58.059 of the Black experience that kind of filter down. 00:12:59.159 --> 00:13:01.580 you know we have the idea of maybe a cotton plantation 00:13:01.580 --> 00:13:04.919 in mississippi or something um and then we extrapolate 00:13:04.919 --> 00:13:07.220 that to think oh like well that's how it was 00:13:07.220 --> 00:13:09.759 for every black slave um because we don't necessarily 00:13:09.759 --> 00:13:15.250 get other information so i think for for me And 00:13:15.250 --> 00:13:17.570 understanding that there are so many different 00:13:17.570 --> 00:13:20.289 pockets of that experience and that my family's 00:13:20.289 --> 00:13:22.509 experience was, it's really just one of those, 00:13:22.649 --> 00:13:25.769 is important. So, you know, whenever I'm able 00:13:25.769 --> 00:13:27.789 to give talks about this, I always emphasize, 00:13:27.850 --> 00:13:30.309 like, there's still more. This is one experience 00:13:30.309 --> 00:13:33.190 that is, I think, interesting and unique. But 00:13:33.190 --> 00:13:35.769 there are so many other ways that the African 00:13:35.769 --> 00:13:37.470 American experience in the North is different. 00:13:37.889 --> 00:13:39.629 The African American experience, you know, in 00:13:39.629 --> 00:13:41.629 California or other parts of the West is different. 00:13:42.509 --> 00:13:46.309 And so this history in specific is interesting, 00:13:46.509 --> 00:13:50.750 I think, because it brings together two kind 00:13:50.750 --> 00:13:53.110 of unknown histories, like Native American history 00:13:53.110 --> 00:13:56.230 is also understudied in academia. And then also 00:13:56.230 --> 00:13:58.649 we don't get much of that at the kind of K through 00:13:58.649 --> 00:14:01.090 12 level. And so bringing those together, you 00:14:01.090 --> 00:14:04.370 get kind of an extra amount of a lack of knowledge. 00:14:05.169 --> 00:14:09.409 Right. So. One of the talks that I heard you 00:14:09.409 --> 00:14:13.230 give was with one of your colleagues. And what 00:14:13.230 --> 00:14:17.289 surprised me about that was there seemed to be 00:14:17.289 --> 00:14:21.129 some other experts that had dabbled in this topic, 00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:23.690 right? And had not just dabbled, but like it 00:14:23.690 --> 00:14:27.049 spent significant time doing the research or 00:14:27.049 --> 00:14:30.769 being familiar with the history. And so that 00:14:30.769 --> 00:14:34.110 surprised me as well, where it's like, oh. She 00:14:34.110 --> 00:14:38.929 has like a whole flock of unicorns that she's, 00:14:38.950 --> 00:14:41.769 you know, learning from and learning with that, 00:14:41.889 --> 00:14:45.889 you know, mainstream communities don't really 00:14:45.889 --> 00:14:48.610 know about. Are there any noteworthy historians 00:14:48.610 --> 00:14:51.929 or researchers that you have found have really 00:14:51.929 --> 00:14:54.629 helped kind of guide your light and help pave 00:14:54.629 --> 00:14:57.809 that way? Or has this been a challenge that you 00:14:57.809 --> 00:15:01.889 have embarked on uniquely? Yeah, well, so also 00:15:01.889 --> 00:15:04.230 related to the last question, the person who 00:15:04.230 --> 00:15:08.690 maybe had one of the largest influences on me 00:15:08.690 --> 00:15:12.169 is Taya Miles, who was a professor at the University 00:15:12.169 --> 00:15:14.450 of Michigan when I met her, is now all fancy 00:15:14.450 --> 00:15:17.330 at Harvard. And she wrote one of the first books 00:15:17.330 --> 00:15:21.309 on the Cherokee Nation, who also owns slaves. 00:15:21.889 --> 00:15:25.350 She later won a MacArthur Genius Grant. So, you 00:15:25.350 --> 00:15:26.889 know, she's kind of done amazing work in this 00:15:26.889 --> 00:15:29.490 area. But because she was one of the first, she 00:15:29.490 --> 00:15:33.330 also got an extreme amount of hate. A lot of 00:15:33.330 --> 00:15:35.909 Native people being very angry that she was talking 00:15:35.909 --> 00:15:38.889 about this. Like, how dare you kind of air Native 00:15:38.889 --> 00:15:41.230 people's dirty laundry? Like, this isn't even 00:15:41.230 --> 00:15:44.889 your history. We suffered too. And all of these 00:15:44.889 --> 00:15:46.889 things, like, that I actually haven't had to 00:15:46.889 --> 00:15:48.710 deal with because of the time that I came along. 00:15:49.389 --> 00:15:52.230 And so, you know, I'm very thankful for the work 00:15:52.230 --> 00:15:54.590 that she did because she showed me. There was 00:15:54.590 --> 00:15:57.309 a path forward in this kind of in -between space, 00:15:57.690 --> 00:16:01.809 but also for the way that she, you know, had 00:16:01.809 --> 00:16:04.909 to be the first to kind of answer for this kind 00:16:04.909 --> 00:16:08.169 of history that I also get to tell. If you're 00:16:08.169 --> 00:16:10.409 enjoying the show as much as we love creating 00:16:10.409 --> 00:16:14.230 it, consider showing your support by buying us 00:16:14.230 --> 00:16:19.070 a cup of coffee. Visit buymeacoffee .com slash 00:16:19.070 --> 00:16:26.750 Nyesha Frey O. That's buymeacoffee .com forward 00:16:26.750 --> 00:16:32.450 slash Nyesha Frey O, all one word. Each cup is 00:16:32.450 --> 00:16:36.309 just $5 and every single one helps us continue 00:16:36.309 --> 00:16:39.889 to produce, develop, and sustain the high quality 00:16:39.889 --> 00:16:43.029 content you've come to expect from questions 00:16:43.029 --> 00:16:45.889 you didn't ask. Thank you for your continued 00:16:45.889 --> 00:16:48.509 support and let's keep the conversation going. 00:16:48.789 --> 00:16:53.379 Yeah. you know, a big part of this conversation 00:16:53.379 --> 00:16:56.299 is going to be a Sankofa reflection because, 00:16:56.379 --> 00:16:59.899 you know, not only are we talking about history, 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:05.059 but how that history impacts us now. And I imagine 00:17:05.059 --> 00:17:09.440 that I imagined when I was reading your book. 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.799 And hearing you talk about this research and 00:17:12.799 --> 00:17:15.480 this history, that there would be some backlash. 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:19.440 And so to hear that there was actually someone 00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:22.859 that took that on initially probably helped, 00:17:22.940 --> 00:17:27.200 you know, smooth the way for you. And thankfully, 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.440 you didn't have to fight that particular fight. 00:17:30.579 --> 00:17:34.480 So I'm thankful to hear that. Along those lines, 00:17:34.660 --> 00:17:37.160 you know, your work challenges mainstream narratives 00:17:37.160 --> 00:17:40.509 about African -American history. Why do you think 00:17:40.509 --> 00:17:43.869 this scholarship remains underrepresented in 00:17:43.869 --> 00:17:48.609 public discourse? Well, so I just mentioned Dr. 00:17:48.750 --> 00:17:52.009 Ty Miles. Her book came out in 2008. So my book 00:17:52.009 --> 00:17:56.190 came out in 2021. And in that kind of in -between 00:17:56.190 --> 00:17:59.730 space, there were a few other books published 00:17:59.730 --> 00:18:02.809 also on the Cherokee Nation, none on the Chickasaw 00:18:02.809 --> 00:18:04.829 and Choctaw Nations, which I focused on and the 00:18:04.829 --> 00:18:08.140 nations I have a connection to. and i was yeah 00:18:08.140 --> 00:18:09.839 i was so curious about that very question like 00:18:09.839 --> 00:18:13.640 why why does this kind of seem like a topic no 00:18:13.640 --> 00:18:15.660 one has ever heard of even though like you know 00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:17.539 i know time all this book and like i know a few 00:18:17.539 --> 00:18:19.779 of these other works um but i think it's because 00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:22.519 it doesn't fit easily into a box and because 00:18:22.519 --> 00:18:26.279 people want to think of african americans and 00:18:26.279 --> 00:18:28.960 native americans in very specific ways um both 00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:32.220 as oppressed peoples and so if you then kind 00:18:32.220 --> 00:18:34.579 of get into the fact that yes Native Americans 00:18:34.579 --> 00:18:40.539 clearly were oppressed and yet some of them also 00:18:40.539 --> 00:18:43.700 oppressed others like it gets a little more complicated 00:18:43.700 --> 00:18:45.720 people start to get a little uncomfortable like 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.119 well how can I feel bad for Native people if 00:18:48.119 --> 00:18:51.460 they also had a slave you know and that's something 00:18:51.460 --> 00:18:53.480 that some people just aren't willing to sit with 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:57.720 that kind of uncomfortable complexity Yeah. And 00:18:57.720 --> 00:19:00.339 I think that this is a time where we're having 00:19:00.339 --> 00:19:03.359 to deal with a lot of uncomfortable things, right? 00:19:03.440 --> 00:19:07.380 A lot of uncomfortable realities. We're having 00:19:07.380 --> 00:19:11.660 to look at our community with a different lens 00:19:11.660 --> 00:19:15.039 and challenge a lot of our assumptions about 00:19:15.039 --> 00:19:19.599 what we thought was or is, what we thought was 00:19:19.599 --> 00:19:24.400 or is possible even. And I think that your research, 00:19:24.539 --> 00:19:28.890 your book, is one of those things that makes 00:19:28.890 --> 00:19:33.390 us, you know, I clenched my pearls several times 00:19:33.390 --> 00:19:38.029 reading this book, okay? And for those who know 00:19:38.029 --> 00:19:42.730 me well, know that I love roses because they 00:19:42.730 --> 00:19:47.250 have thorns, okay? I am not a delicate, overly 00:19:47.250 --> 00:19:50.309 delicate person, but I was clenching the pearls, 00:19:50.470 --> 00:19:57.180 okay? And I've been here all the while. is a 00:19:57.180 --> 00:20:00.819 part of the title of your book. It's an eye -opening 00:20:00.819 --> 00:20:04.720 book. It's a sobering book. It will make you 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:08.720 angry. It will make you frustrated. It will also 00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:12.619 give you a lot of aha moments. So what motivated 00:20:12.619 --> 00:20:15.420 you to write it and how has it been received? 00:20:15.779 --> 00:20:18.039 I mean, we talked a little bit about how, you 00:20:18.039 --> 00:20:20.240 know, you were surprised that it's been fairly 00:20:20.240 --> 00:20:23.490 well received. in terms of not getting as much 00:20:23.490 --> 00:20:26.490 backlash as your counterpart has. But as I've 00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:28.650 seen you on different podcasts and promoting 00:20:28.650 --> 00:20:31.549 your book and sharing and book talks and things 00:20:31.549 --> 00:20:33.450 like that, there's also some back and forth. 00:20:33.549 --> 00:20:36.990 How would you describe that reception? Well, 00:20:37.069 --> 00:20:39.210 I wanted to write this book to tell my family's 00:20:39.210 --> 00:20:42.329 story. That is why I went to graduate school. 00:20:42.470 --> 00:20:44.630 Like I always say, I would never be where I am, 00:20:44.730 --> 00:20:47.750 which is a very happy place right now, if not 00:20:47.750 --> 00:20:51.160 for... wanting to explore this history and wanting 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:54.240 to be the one who got to tell this history. So 00:20:54.240 --> 00:20:57.059 being able to weave my family story into the 00:20:57.059 --> 00:20:59.579 narrative of the first book was amazing. And 00:20:59.579 --> 00:21:01.720 I'm very thankful that my publisher allowed me 00:21:01.720 --> 00:21:07.220 to do that. As for the reception, that was also 00:21:07.220 --> 00:21:10.359 kind of another, I'm not sure perfect storm is 00:21:10.359 --> 00:21:13.700 the right metaphor there. It was the exact right 00:21:13.700 --> 00:21:16.700 time, really. You know, 2021, we had just come 00:21:16.700 --> 00:21:19.220 out of a year where... The United States was 00:21:19.220 --> 00:21:22.240 discussing racism more than ever before. Right. 00:21:22.339 --> 00:21:26.519 And so people were more willing then to go in 00:21:26.519 --> 00:21:31.160 to this more complex topic and say, OK, we're 00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.539 thinking about anti -Black racism at an infrastructure 00:21:34.539 --> 00:21:36.640 level and at an individual kind of prejudice 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:41.319 level in different spaces, primarily still through 00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:43.730 that white -Black dichotomy. But now here's a 00:21:43.730 --> 00:21:45.730 book that's bringing another group in and saying, 00:21:45.829 --> 00:21:47.589 well, you know, look, Native Americans have also 00:21:47.589 --> 00:21:50.549 been impacted by this racial hierarchy created. 00:21:51.269 --> 00:21:53.789 And people were willing to engage and people 00:21:53.789 --> 00:21:57.250 were willing to really kind of, I think, look 00:21:57.250 --> 00:22:00.490 into themselves. And I was talking to a friend, 00:22:00.609 --> 00:22:03.369 a friend I made who was Chickasaw because he 00:22:03.369 --> 00:22:06.170 read this book. And he said that he really appreciated 00:22:06.170 --> 00:22:10.250 that I kind of say in the introduction. look, 00:22:10.289 --> 00:22:12.549 I'm laying myself bare in this book. I'm willing 00:22:12.549 --> 00:22:15.509 to talk about my family and some of the great 00:22:15.509 --> 00:22:17.109 things they did and maybe some of the not so 00:22:17.109 --> 00:22:19.109 great things they did that impacted other people. 00:22:19.589 --> 00:22:22.410 And that allowed him and I think a lot of other 00:22:22.410 --> 00:22:25.130 people to say, if she's willing to do this, maybe 00:22:25.130 --> 00:22:28.609 I am also willing to do this. That's awesome. 00:22:29.430 --> 00:22:33.009 Vulnerability, right? And showing that, you know, 00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:37.690 no one group of people or person is infallible. 00:22:38.000 --> 00:22:41.599 Right. We all have our struggles. We all have 00:22:41.599 --> 00:22:44.900 our triumphs. We all have times when we have 00:22:44.900 --> 00:22:49.500 been oppressed in some sense or other times is 00:22:49.500 --> 00:22:52.619 what's what was interesting about this book is 00:22:52.619 --> 00:22:56.880 seeing that Native American peoples were oppressors 00:22:56.880 --> 00:23:00.900 and being oppressed at the same time. And that 00:23:00.900 --> 00:23:05.609 is a very interesting place to be in. And I think 00:23:05.609 --> 00:23:09.470 I want to go back to, you know, something that 00:23:09.470 --> 00:23:13.089 I've heard a lot in our community coming up over 00:23:13.089 --> 00:23:18.009 the years, which is what does it mean for African 00:23:18.009 --> 00:23:21.430 -Americans or Black Americans? What does it really 00:23:21.430 --> 00:23:25.160 mean when? You know, we're describing ourselves. 00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.420 We're describing our families. Our families are 00:23:28.420 --> 00:23:31.460 so unique. Our family histories are so interesting 00:23:31.460 --> 00:23:34.940 in that we oftentimes don't have a specific place 00:23:34.940 --> 00:23:38.799 to point to specifically in Africa. We have more 00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.980 origin story as it relates to here in the Americas 00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:44.680 because of the way that the transatlantic slave 00:23:44.680 --> 00:23:47.559 trade and documentation happened or lack thereof. 00:23:47.880 --> 00:23:51.339 And so people in the Black community would commonly 00:23:51.339 --> 00:23:54.740 say, well, we got Indian in our family. And it 00:23:54.740 --> 00:23:57.700 would explain things like skin complexion. It 00:23:57.700 --> 00:24:01.319 would explain things like hair texture. It would 00:24:01.319 --> 00:24:04.019 explain things like health conditions, health 00:24:04.019 --> 00:24:07.500 issues. It could explain so many different things. 00:24:07.839 --> 00:24:11.220 And what do you think this narrative or why do 00:24:11.220 --> 00:24:14.940 you think this narrative is so deeply romanticized 00:24:14.940 --> 00:24:20.000 in Black culture? That's a great question. I 00:24:20.000 --> 00:24:24.829 mean, the... When I mentioned that I was looking 00:24:24.829 --> 00:24:26.950 at my family and looking at these various clubs 00:24:26.950 --> 00:24:28.710 and thinking, where do I fit? Part of that is 00:24:28.710 --> 00:24:30.690 because of the way my dad looks. My dad is often 00:24:30.690 --> 00:24:35.369 mistaken for a white man. And he never really 00:24:35.369 --> 00:24:37.490 was interested in family history. He didn't know 00:24:37.490 --> 00:24:39.970 anything that I later found out. But I assumed 00:24:39.970 --> 00:24:43.269 it was from a white person. And I never would 00:24:43.269 --> 00:24:44.890 have thought, oh, some of this comes actually 00:24:44.890 --> 00:24:48.049 from Native people. So reconstructing our family 00:24:48.049 --> 00:24:50.190 tree now, there are lots of white people in it. 00:24:50.809 --> 00:24:54.309 Don't get me wrong. But the Native line is also 00:24:54.309 --> 00:24:58.390 part of that. And so I didn't start as kind of 00:24:58.390 --> 00:25:02.369 someone who already had that idea of like, oh, 00:25:02.369 --> 00:25:03.970 there's Native American ancestry in our family. 00:25:04.029 --> 00:25:06.150 Like I had actually never heard that. But I've 00:25:06.150 --> 00:25:07.829 heard it from many people ever since I started 00:25:07.829 --> 00:25:11.630 doing this research. And what I found from talking 00:25:11.630 --> 00:25:15.869 to sociologists and doing my own research. It 00:25:15.869 --> 00:25:17.869 really seems that having a Native American ancestor 00:25:17.869 --> 00:25:19.589 is more attractive than having a white ancestor 00:25:19.589 --> 00:25:22.309 because people don't know about the history of 00:25:22.309 --> 00:25:24.470 Native American slave ownership. So when they 00:25:24.470 --> 00:25:27.309 say we have Indian in our family, it's more a 00:25:27.309 --> 00:25:29.970 romantic idea of, oh, one of our ancestors ran 00:25:29.970 --> 00:25:32.650 away and was sheltered by a Native nation, you 00:25:32.650 --> 00:25:36.069 know, or, oh, Native and Black people realized 00:25:36.069 --> 00:25:37.650 that they were both being oppressed by the white 00:25:37.650 --> 00:25:39.529 man. And so they got together and had a relationship 00:25:39.529 --> 00:25:43.660 somehow. And this did happen at times, but it 00:25:43.660 --> 00:25:46.279 was nowhere near the amount of people who were 00:25:46.279 --> 00:25:49.519 enslaved by Native Americans. And so it's easier 00:25:49.519 --> 00:25:52.180 to think of a Native ancestor in the same position 00:25:52.180 --> 00:25:55.119 as your Black ancestor than, unfortunately, the 00:25:55.119 --> 00:25:57.880 rampant sexual assault of Black women by their 00:25:57.880 --> 00:26:00.039 white stakeholders or, you know, white men in 00:26:00.039 --> 00:26:03.119 the community. It's been estimated that somewhere 00:26:03.119 --> 00:26:06.380 from 40 to 75 percent of African -Americans have 00:26:06.380 --> 00:26:09.980 white ancestry because of that. And so, you know, 00:26:09.980 --> 00:26:12.000 that's part of the reason we look so different 00:26:12.000 --> 00:26:15.019 and we have, you know, features or whatever that 00:26:15.019 --> 00:26:18.119 come from that ancestry, but it's not someone 00:26:18.119 --> 00:26:20.299 that people, not something that people want to 00:26:20.299 --> 00:26:22.900 claim because it's not a happy story. And it 00:26:22.900 --> 00:26:25.700 reminds us of that, you know, difficult history 00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:28.420 and oppression that our ancestors had. Yeah. 00:26:28.559 --> 00:26:33.299 Yeah. I definitely resonate with that. My family, 00:26:33.400 --> 00:26:36.160 my mother's side in particular, my mother specifically, 00:26:36.339 --> 00:26:41.039 was fortunate to take a deep dive into her family 00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:45.619 ancestry and found out the most that she could. 00:26:45.740 --> 00:26:49.539 And it got to a point where she discovered that 00:26:49.539 --> 00:26:54.339 one of our ancestors, a great, great grandparent, 00:26:54.359 --> 00:26:58.279 grandmother, in fact, was, as you just mentioned, 00:26:58.559 --> 00:27:05.769 the result of... rape by a slave owner, white 00:27:05.769 --> 00:27:08.430 male slave owner who happened to be Irish or 00:27:08.430 --> 00:27:13.990 of Irish descent. And his solution for that child 00:27:13.990 --> 00:27:19.930 resulting from his behavior, his violence onto 00:27:19.930 --> 00:27:24.049 another woman of African descent was to send 00:27:24.049 --> 00:27:28.240 her across the Ohio River. into Ohio so that 00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:31.940 she could be free. And after listening to your 00:27:31.940 --> 00:27:36.440 book, I thought more critically about that, about 00:27:36.440 --> 00:27:39.319 how lonely she must have been, how difficult 00:27:39.319 --> 00:27:43.579 that must have been for her and her mother, if 00:27:43.579 --> 00:27:46.380 her mother was allowed to accompany her. At what 00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:50.660 age was she sent to live away? What was she given 00:27:50.660 --> 00:27:55.259 to help her to start on her own way? And so that 00:27:55.259 --> 00:27:59.559 pain, of having to carry a child that is the 00:27:59.559 --> 00:28:03.759 result of an unwanted sexual encounter, a violent 00:28:03.759 --> 00:28:07.119 sexual encounter that the mother had no control 00:28:07.119 --> 00:28:12.039 over, had no legal ramifications for, had no 00:28:12.039 --> 00:28:15.799 protection from it ever happening again, then 00:28:15.799 --> 00:28:20.420 having this child, you know, the mental and emotional 00:28:21.610 --> 00:28:25.009 bond, what was that like for the mother? And 00:28:25.009 --> 00:28:28.190 then also the quote unquote privilege of maybe 00:28:28.190 --> 00:28:33.029 that child having more European features or what 00:28:33.029 --> 00:28:35.710 we consider white features than maybe her brothers 00:28:35.710 --> 00:28:37.849 and sisters who did not have the same father. 00:28:38.289 --> 00:28:42.589 And so how does that resonate with the family? 00:28:42.670 --> 00:28:46.269 I can recall a time where I kind of used it in 00:28:46.269 --> 00:28:49.730 a social setting amongst other white people. 00:28:50.190 --> 00:28:53.549 where we were having a casual conversation and, 00:28:53.549 --> 00:28:56.730 you know, European ancestry and where your people 00:28:56.730 --> 00:28:59.849 came up and they were, you know, having a great 00:28:59.849 --> 00:29:03.349 time talking about, oh, Germany and Great Britain 00:29:03.349 --> 00:29:06.609 and, you know, Italy or France or what have you. 00:29:06.670 --> 00:29:12.829 And I said, well, I'm Irish. And so that made 00:29:12.829 --> 00:29:16.690 for a very quiet end to that conversation. So 00:29:16.690 --> 00:29:21.329 I definitely understand. where when my mother 00:29:21.329 --> 00:29:26.049 found also some traces of evidence that indicated 00:29:26.049 --> 00:29:29.109 we may also have Native American heritage, that 00:29:29.109 --> 00:29:32.329 it was a lot, the assumption was that this was 00:29:32.329 --> 00:29:38.450 probably potentially a more loving type of relationship 00:29:38.450 --> 00:29:42.609 and not as violent as the other ancestor experience. 00:29:43.009 --> 00:29:47.400 So on the flip side, Why don't Native American 00:29:47.400 --> 00:29:50.400 communities express the same level of affinity 00:29:50.400 --> 00:29:53.299 or acknowledgement regarding African ancestry? 00:29:53.539 --> 00:29:56.359 I think we never question that as Black people, 00:29:56.460 --> 00:30:00.660 whether it's, you know, oh, well, I have European 00:30:00.660 --> 00:30:06.299 ancestry and white people do not tend to acknowledge 00:30:06.299 --> 00:30:09.980 or wear as a badge their mutual Black ancestry, 00:30:10.079 --> 00:30:14.319 right? Because it takes two. Right. So if I've 00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:18.119 got a white ancestor, then you have a black ancestor. 00:30:18.400 --> 00:30:23.000 Right. And that never gets acknowledged. The 00:30:23.000 --> 00:30:25.440 same is true for Native Americans. If I have 00:30:25.440 --> 00:30:29.140 a Native American ancestor, then you have a black 00:30:29.140 --> 00:30:31.559 ancestor. What are your thoughts and reflections 00:30:31.559 --> 00:30:34.599 on that conundrum? See, I love that you've asked 00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:36.240 me that after your previous question, because 00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:38.579 no one has ever asked me that before, even though 00:30:38.579 --> 00:30:42.099 it's the obvious flip side. Right. And that's 00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:46.619 because claiming a Native ancestor today is seen 00:30:46.619 --> 00:30:49.380 as, you know, like exotic. And as we've said, 00:30:49.500 --> 00:30:51.660 you know, maybe this connection to this loving 00:30:51.660 --> 00:30:54.440 relationship or something that signals kind of 00:30:54.440 --> 00:30:57.339 anti -colonialism, you know, fighting. Whereas 00:30:57.339 --> 00:31:00.579 an African ancestor, like first you have to acknowledge 00:31:00.579 --> 00:31:03.140 slavery because that Black person in that period 00:31:03.140 --> 00:31:05.099 of time likely would have been a slave. No one 00:31:05.099 --> 00:31:07.420 wants to do that. That's not fun. And then the 00:31:07.420 --> 00:31:10.519 other thing is that being Black is, you know. 00:31:11.559 --> 00:31:15.380 to an extent it's seen as like cool um i think 00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:17.519 maybe especially to some people who want to say 00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:20.200 certain things that they otherwise couldn't um 00:31:20.200 --> 00:31:22.299 but for the most part it's not seen as attractive 00:31:22.299 --> 00:31:25.980 like it's not seen as a good thing right um what 00:31:25.980 --> 00:31:28.519 is that one thing like no one wants to be an 00:31:28.519 --> 00:31:31.220 n -word like i've heard that before um because 00:31:31.220 --> 00:31:34.279 no one wants the associated discrimination and 00:31:34.279 --> 00:31:38.619 the The history is difficult unless you're just 00:31:38.619 --> 00:31:40.660 claiming like, oh, like I have, you know, athletic 00:31:40.660 --> 00:31:42.740 genes or whatever, whatever other stereotypes 00:31:42.740 --> 00:31:45.400 are associated with black people. So, yeah, the 00:31:45.400 --> 00:31:50.740 the native ancestor. Or why you have a nice tan 00:31:50.740 --> 00:31:56.299 or like, yes. No one wants to claim us. Yeah, 00:31:56.420 --> 00:32:00.599 it's true. It's true. And I think that that is 00:32:00.599 --> 00:32:07.240 something that we are seeing. a shift. We're 00:32:07.240 --> 00:32:10.480 starting to see more of a shift, right? At least 00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:13.359 in my social circles and social media and things 00:32:13.359 --> 00:32:16.180 like that, where there's a growing acknowledgement 00:32:16.180 --> 00:32:21.299 of anti -Blackness within some Native American 00:32:21.299 --> 00:32:25.079 communities, tribes, and social justice groups. 00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.000 What do you think is driving this shift, you 00:32:28.000 --> 00:32:31.099 know, where they're starting to acknowledge that 00:32:31.099 --> 00:32:34.680 there are... Black people with Native ancestry 00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:38.519 or Native people with Black ancestry that are 00:32:38.519 --> 00:32:41.920 still a part of their tribe or their community? 00:32:42.400 --> 00:32:44.319 You know, what do you think that's about that 00:32:44.319 --> 00:32:46.400 they're starting to embrace this now or acknowledge 00:32:46.400 --> 00:32:50.119 it? This has been such a slow movement. And I 00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:53.559 didn't think about it in this way before a Chickasaw 00:32:53.559 --> 00:32:56.559 friend of mine was like. we're decades behind 00:32:56.559 --> 00:32:59.299 the African -American civil rights movement. 00:32:59.359 --> 00:33:01.500 There has never been something like that for 00:33:01.500 --> 00:33:03.859 Indian country, which is kind of how we talk 00:33:03.859 --> 00:33:05.660 about broadly defined Indian nations in North 00:33:05.660 --> 00:33:09.200 America. And so there are kind of small pockets, 00:33:09.279 --> 00:33:13.779 like Ty's book, my book. There was in the late 00:33:13.779 --> 00:33:18.079 1990s, like 1997 or 1998, there was a Navajo 00:33:18.079 --> 00:33:21.250 woman who was also part Black. who was in the 00:33:21.250 --> 00:33:24.210 news because she had won, it was called the Miss 00:33:24.210 --> 00:33:26.529 Navajo Nation. And so it's kind of like Miss 00:33:26.529 --> 00:33:29.190 America, except you're supposed to demonstrate 00:33:29.190 --> 00:33:32.329 all the kinds of ways of being an ideal Navajo 00:33:32.329 --> 00:33:35.089 woman. So she could weave, she could shear a 00:33:35.089 --> 00:33:37.970 sheep, she could speak Navajo, like all the things. 00:33:38.049 --> 00:33:39.849 And yet she still got a huge amount of racist 00:33:39.849 --> 00:33:42.289 backlash because the idea was, how can she really 00:33:42.289 --> 00:33:45.109 be Navajo when like she also looks Black? She 00:33:45.109 --> 00:33:46.910 has a Navajo grandmother, you know, she can do 00:33:46.910 --> 00:33:48.589 all of these things. And yet still there was 00:33:48.589 --> 00:33:52.660 this pushback. And so it's been very, very gradual 00:33:52.660 --> 00:33:55.579 that these conversations are happening. And I 00:33:55.579 --> 00:33:59.259 think 2020 and 2021, again, was a time where 00:33:59.259 --> 00:34:03.200 Native America, broadly defined, was kind of 00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:05.500 following these conversations and very slowly 00:34:05.500 --> 00:34:10.650 allowing themselves to think about, OK, Black 00:34:10.650 --> 00:34:12.289 Lives Matter has also opened up conversations 00:34:12.289 --> 00:34:15.989 about colonization. People are toppling Christopher 00:34:15.989 --> 00:34:18.929 Columbus statues. We can talk about that Native 00:34:18.929 --> 00:34:21.530 white dichotomy, but what does it look like if 00:34:21.530 --> 00:34:23.969 we look at African -American protesters and think 00:34:23.969 --> 00:34:25.710 about our own communities and how people talk 00:34:25.710 --> 00:34:28.630 about Black people often? And so there was a 00:34:28.630 --> 00:34:31.650 deep dive, I think, that has died out for some 00:34:31.650 --> 00:34:36.710 people. But I would like to think that for a 00:34:36.710 --> 00:34:39.960 lot of activists and a lot of people of the millennial 00:34:39.960 --> 00:34:43.360 generation, that desire still remains. And I'm 00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:45.780 kind of hopeful from talking to a number of people 00:34:45.780 --> 00:34:49.159 when I visit colleges or when I do talks who 00:34:49.159 --> 00:34:52.539 do say, you know, I still have that desire to 00:34:52.539 --> 00:34:54.440 learn more about my nation's interactions with 00:34:54.440 --> 00:34:56.820 Black people and the way we talk and think about 00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:58.980 Black people today. And so, yeah, it's still 00:34:58.980 --> 00:35:01.380 around, but, you know, just like with the United 00:35:01.380 --> 00:35:04.599 States and anti -Black racism, it's kind of gone 00:35:04.599 --> 00:35:09.090 underground in some ways. That's a wrap on this 00:35:09.090 --> 00:35:12.289 episode of Questions You Didn't Ask. I'm Nyesha 00:35:12.289 --> 00:35:14.309 Frey, and it's been a privilege to speak with 00:35:14.309 --> 00:35:17.969 award -winning author Dr. Elena Roberts. Join 00:35:17.969 --> 00:35:21.010 us next week as we continue our series, Sankofa 00:35:21.010 --> 00:35:24.590 and Solidarity, uncovering Black and Native legacies 00:35:24.590 --> 00:35:26.969 for health equity. See you then.