WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.500 Hey y 'all, welcome to Questions You Didn't Ask. 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:07.179 Did you know that this very spot could be showcasing 00:00:07.179 --> 00:00:10.320 your business or event? Whether it's an audio 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.460 ad on our podcast, or a visual ad on our new 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:18.100 YouTube station, or even both, we've got the 00:00:18.100 --> 00:00:21.620 space for you. Nyesha Frey Consulting is reaching 00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:24.420 a growing audience of over a thousand leaders 00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:27.839 who are passionate about health equity, social 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:32.070 justice, and civil rights activism. These are 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:35.329 professionals just like you working across higher 00:00:35.329 --> 00:00:40.409 education, research, healthcare, nonprofit, government, 00:00:40.590 --> 00:00:44.030 and even public health sectors. If you're ready 00:00:44.030 --> 00:00:46.630 to get your message in front of a dedicated and 00:00:46.630 --> 00:00:52.469 engaged audience, send me an email at naishafrayconsultingllc 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:57.149 at gmail .com. Let's talk about how we can help 00:00:57.149 --> 00:00:59.710 you connect with the people who need to hear 00:00:59.710 --> 00:01:02.829 about your services and products that advance 00:01:02.829 --> 00:01:06.969 health equity and wellness. Don't miss out. Get 00:01:06.969 --> 00:01:09.269 in the mix and let's make an impact together. 00:01:23.109 --> 00:01:25.939 Welcome back. To questions you didn't ask, with 00:01:25.939 --> 00:01:29.219 me, Nyesha Frey, and my guest, Jesse McCoy, as 00:01:29.219 --> 00:01:33.739 we continue the series, Justice or Just Us? How 00:01:33.739 --> 00:01:37.819 Law, Health, and Equity Collide in America. Let's 00:01:37.819 --> 00:01:40.060 pick up where we left off. Let's get back into 00:01:40.060 --> 00:01:45.920 some of these disparities that we see. We often 00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:49.739 talked about... Durham is our chocolate city, 00:01:49.879 --> 00:01:52.120 one of our chocolate cities here in North Carolina. 00:01:52.500 --> 00:01:57.579 And we have been talking a lot about the rich 00:01:57.579 --> 00:02:01.859 history, I love how you say that, of racial disparities 00:02:01.859 --> 00:02:05.239 as it relates to the school to prison pipeline. 00:02:05.920 --> 00:02:08.819 But we also have some gender disparities, right? 00:02:09.020 --> 00:02:11.539 And I'm thinking about the racial and gender 00:02:11.539 --> 00:02:15.560 disparities in sentencing and how that affects 00:02:15.560 --> 00:02:19.039 community health. and contributes to long -term 00:02:19.039 --> 00:02:21.539 inequities. How do these disparities manifest 00:02:21.539 --> 00:02:25.060 in your work? And what changes do you believe 00:02:25.060 --> 00:02:27.020 could address these inequities from a criminal 00:02:27.020 --> 00:02:29.400 justice standpoint? So I don't know that I've 00:02:29.400 --> 00:02:32.860 looked at gender -based sentencing. I think one 00:02:32.860 --> 00:02:34.340 of the things, just because I'm a housing law 00:02:34.340 --> 00:02:37.639 guy, one of the things that often comes up in 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:39.439 housing law presentations, not just here, but 00:02:39.439 --> 00:02:42.620 across the nation, is that at the time where 00:02:42.620 --> 00:02:45.740 Black men were disproportionately being imprisoned, 00:02:46.569 --> 00:02:48.849 Black women were disproportionately being evicted. 00:02:49.770 --> 00:02:52.949 So, you know, it's one of those situations where 00:02:52.949 --> 00:02:56.710 I feel like, again, the systems work the way 00:02:56.710 --> 00:02:59.349 that the engineer designs them to work. But it 00:02:59.349 --> 00:03:03.069 also comes down to kind of how do we assess what 00:03:03.069 --> 00:03:06.870 our priority is going to be, be it through statues, 00:03:07.189 --> 00:03:10.169 ordinances, whatever. The focus has up to this 00:03:10.169 --> 00:03:14.479 point has been, in my opinion. on the destabilization 00:03:14.479 --> 00:03:17.960 of Black communities, because we don't have the 00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:23.840 ability per se to have and own our own, right? 00:03:23.979 --> 00:03:26.740 So like, there are things that can be done, again, 00:03:26.740 --> 00:03:29.139 reparations, there are things that can be done 00:03:29.139 --> 00:03:32.060 for us to be able to be in that position. But 00:03:32.060 --> 00:03:34.539 because the government, for whatever reason, 00:03:34.580 --> 00:03:37.620 sees consent to not do that, everybody is trying 00:03:37.620 --> 00:03:40.419 to kind of figure it out on their own. Under 00:03:40.419 --> 00:03:44.219 the microscope of law enforcement, when it comes 00:03:44.219 --> 00:03:47.539 to I'm trying to think that for any of the female 00:03:47.539 --> 00:03:52.080 clients that I've had. I don't know that I've 00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:55.240 had enough to really have a sample size that 00:03:55.240 --> 00:03:56.699 was established. And it's not to say that there 00:03:56.699 --> 00:03:59.560 aren't women getting arrested. I've had enough 00:03:59.560 --> 00:04:02.340 to have a sample size to be able to compare what 00:04:02.340 --> 00:04:05.460 the sentence was like for one versus the other. 00:04:05.659 --> 00:04:09.900 I will say that for. The women that I've had 00:04:09.900 --> 00:04:13.340 who were arrested largely either dealt with substance 00:04:13.340 --> 00:04:16.899 abuse or it dealt with people making financial 00:04:16.899 --> 00:04:19.639 decisions about their body that the law says 00:04:19.639 --> 00:04:22.720 they weren't able to make as a means of putting 00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:25.920 food on the table for their kids. So it's a little 00:04:25.920 --> 00:04:28.319 bit different. But again, my sample size is going 00:04:28.319 --> 00:04:32.420 to be rather small. But I do think there is a 00:04:32.420 --> 00:04:36.990 lot to say about the stresses of increased. living 00:04:36.990 --> 00:04:40.350 expectations, living costs, the increases that 00:04:40.350 --> 00:04:43.269 people don't seem to get in their wage, and the 00:04:43.269 --> 00:04:46.750 fact that rent can continuously go up, wage remains 00:04:46.750 --> 00:04:49.410 stagnant, and people are still somehow expected 00:04:49.410 --> 00:04:52.149 to be able to make it in a system that's not 00:04:52.149 --> 00:04:55.430 designed for them to make it. So I think that 00:04:55.430 --> 00:04:57.470 that's probably the best contribution I can do. 00:04:57.550 --> 00:04:59.870 I wish I had a bigger sample size to be able 00:04:59.870 --> 00:05:04.379 to know otherwise. So, you know, just looking 00:05:04.379 --> 00:05:07.180 at the 2023 demographic differences in federal 00:05:07.180 --> 00:05:09.199 sentencing, which of course there's federal and 00:05:09.199 --> 00:05:11.019 then there's state and, you know, other things 00:05:11.019 --> 00:05:13.500 that, you know, we have to consider is that, 00:05:13.500 --> 00:05:16.139 you know, especially among Black males that they 00:05:16.139 --> 00:05:21.800 receive sentences 13, excuse me, 13 .4 % longer 00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:26.860 and Hispanic males receive sentences 11 .2 % 00:05:26.860 --> 00:05:31.360 longer than white males. What they found also 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:34.220 was that Hispanic females received sentences 00:05:34.220 --> 00:05:38.360 27 .8 % longer than white females, while other 00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:40.540 race females, and I'm assuming that's including 00:05:40.540 --> 00:05:44.779 Black females, received sentences 10 % shorter. 00:05:45.000 --> 00:05:46.839 So, you know, we've been talking a little bit 00:05:46.839 --> 00:05:50.899 about... Oh, similar trends. Okay, so Black males 00:05:50.899 --> 00:05:54.040 were 23 .4 % less likely and Hispanic males were 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:58.259 26 .6 % less likely to receive a probationary 00:05:58.259 --> 00:06:01.819 sentence compared to white males. And similar 00:06:01.819 --> 00:06:04.879 trends were observed among females with Black 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:07.639 and Hispanic females less likely to receive a 00:06:07.639 --> 00:06:11.839 probation sentence than white females. 11 .2 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:16.920 % less likely. for Black and 29 .7 % less likely 00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:20.899 for Hispanic females. So that is a huge disparity 00:06:20.899 --> 00:06:25.420 on the federal side. So that's just a touch on 00:06:25.420 --> 00:06:29.139 that. And I appreciate you sharing about your 00:06:29.139 --> 00:06:34.899 experience and what your small sample size communicates 00:06:34.899 --> 00:06:37.240 to you and your experience. And I think it's 00:06:37.240 --> 00:06:41.550 fair to say that There are some major inequities 00:06:41.550 --> 00:06:44.089 there that we need to address as a community 00:06:44.089 --> 00:06:48.230 and as a voting constituent and recognizing that 00:06:48.230 --> 00:06:51.649 they say we're still a democracy. And so whether 00:06:51.649 --> 00:06:55.649 we're talking about housing or school to prison 00:06:55.649 --> 00:06:59.649 pipeline, affirmative action and so on, our vote 00:06:59.649 --> 00:07:03.610 matters. Absolutely. So along those lines, you 00:07:03.610 --> 00:07:05.350 know, we started talking about the social determinants 00:07:05.350 --> 00:07:07.430 of health, which, of course, housing is one of 00:07:07.430 --> 00:07:10.029 that. Health care is another. Food security. 00:07:10.089 --> 00:07:12.689 All those have long term effects on what we call 00:07:12.689 --> 00:07:16.009 population health. And so from a legal perspective, 00:07:16.250 --> 00:07:18.589 what are some of the most harmful policies or 00:07:18.589 --> 00:07:21.569 practices that restrict formerly incarcerated 00:07:21.569 --> 00:07:24.449 individuals from accessing these basic needs? 00:07:26.389 --> 00:07:29.490 So, again, I think my area tends to be a little 00:07:29.490 --> 00:07:31.649 more limited, so I might not know all the ways, 00:07:31.750 --> 00:07:34.910 but I was many years ago on part of the panel 00:07:34.910 --> 00:07:38.430 that expanded the expungement statutes. We used 00:07:38.430 --> 00:07:40.790 to only have one, right? But now we have way 00:07:40.790 --> 00:07:43.629 more. So one of the things that we commonly saw. 00:07:44.110 --> 00:07:46.769 was that a criminal record impacts people's ability 00:07:46.769 --> 00:07:50.050 for housing. It impacts people's ability to secure 00:07:50.050 --> 00:07:53.689 public benefits. It impacts people's ability 00:07:53.689 --> 00:07:56.990 to get employment. And those are kind of the 00:07:56.990 --> 00:07:59.290 main things that you need in order to have a 00:07:59.290 --> 00:08:03.209 life, right? So I was fortunate to work with 00:08:03.209 --> 00:08:06.720 Daryl Hunt. When he was alive, for those who 00:08:06.720 --> 00:08:08.740 don't know, he's a guy who spent 20 years in 00:08:08.740 --> 00:08:11.220 prison for a crime he didn't commit. But when 00:08:11.220 --> 00:08:13.959 he was released, he came out and he established 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:17.000 all these programs to help with reentry issues. 00:08:17.100 --> 00:08:19.800 And this is kind of before reentry issues were 00:08:19.800 --> 00:08:23.290 even popular. Right. And one of the things that 00:08:23.290 --> 00:08:25.310 I was able to learn in that relationship and 00:08:25.310 --> 00:08:27.949 working with him and helping to expand these 00:08:27.949 --> 00:08:31.149 expungement statues is like a lot of people who 00:08:31.149 --> 00:08:33.830 are just looking for an opportunity to do right. 00:08:34.610 --> 00:08:37.049 Struggle with the things that we would consider 00:08:37.049 --> 00:08:41.070 to be necessities. So if we are in a position 00:08:41.070 --> 00:08:44.289 where we can help somebody to get a job because 00:08:44.289 --> 00:08:47.879 of an expungement. Right. then maybe we need 00:08:47.879 --> 00:08:50.039 to expand the expungement statutes to include 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:52.840 certain things. But that's a legislative process. 00:08:53.220 --> 00:08:56.120 And I think the legislative piece of it is what 00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:59.679 deters people from really seeing it through and 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:01.659 getting the change you need. The interesting 00:09:01.659 --> 00:09:04.519 thing about when we did it was it was at a time 00:09:04.519 --> 00:09:07.700 where even people in quote unquote conservative 00:09:07.700 --> 00:09:11.690 counties. had the same issues, right? And so 00:09:11.690 --> 00:09:14.210 when everybody has the issue, if the conservative 00:09:14.210 --> 00:09:17.049 county folks are a lot more vocal about what's 00:09:17.049 --> 00:09:19.389 happening, the policy change across the board 00:09:19.389 --> 00:09:22.269 helps everybody. But it shouldn't have to be 00:09:22.269 --> 00:09:25.250 set up so that we've got to politically lean 00:09:25.250 --> 00:09:27.809 it in to get a certain way, even though I do 00:09:27.809 --> 00:09:29.950 appreciate the benefit now of people having that 00:09:29.950 --> 00:09:33.230 option. The other thing we did, there was something 00:09:33.230 --> 00:09:36.070 called certificates of relief. People laugh at 00:09:36.070 --> 00:09:38.460 them now. But at the time, there were certain 00:09:38.460 --> 00:09:41.299 professions that you couldn't enter if you had 00:09:41.299 --> 00:09:44.100 a criminal record, like one such being a barber, 00:09:44.299 --> 00:09:47.600 right? And so what the certificate of relief 00:09:47.600 --> 00:09:51.120 was designed to do, it was a first step in providing 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:53.360 people, particularly folks who were in the last 00:09:53.360 --> 00:09:56.179 few months of incarceration who were getting 00:09:56.179 --> 00:09:59.419 ready to return, the ability to be trained as 00:09:59.419 --> 00:10:01.460 a barber and to have a certificate that would 00:10:01.460 --> 00:10:04.360 vouch for them so that that issue on that record. 00:10:04.860 --> 00:10:07.980 wouldn't mess it up it was the precursor to what 00:10:07.980 --> 00:10:11.860 ultimately we wanted to be a state bonding program 00:10:11.860 --> 00:10:14.480 which would be the state having basically an 00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:16.980 insurance policy on any person you hired who 00:10:16.980 --> 00:10:19.899 was formally convicted and if something went 00:10:19.899 --> 00:10:22.779 wrong you would be able to get money the federal 00:10:22.779 --> 00:10:25.309 government does this really well with their federal 00:10:25.309 --> 00:10:28.509 bonding process. But the state government was 00:10:28.509 --> 00:10:30.429 cool with the certificates of relief, not cool 00:10:30.429 --> 00:10:33.210 with the bonding. So they split it and we got 00:10:33.210 --> 00:10:34.970 certificates that essentially mean nothing. They 00:10:34.970 --> 00:10:39.769 have no teeth. So I think that was a place where 00:10:39.769 --> 00:10:41.889 North Carolina dropped the ball policy -wise. 00:10:42.710 --> 00:10:45.690 I also think, you know, we've seen with housing 00:10:45.690 --> 00:10:47.809 authorities now, they're starting to reconsider 00:10:47.809 --> 00:10:51.350 kind of what constitutes a crime that disqualifies 00:10:51.350 --> 00:10:55.559 somebody for housing. But I think, you know, 00:10:55.559 --> 00:11:00.159 the hard part for us is people try to make the 00:11:00.159 --> 00:11:02.320 challenges and changes that they want to make 00:11:02.320 --> 00:11:06.440 on the granular level that they can. But so much 00:11:06.440 --> 00:11:09.200 of this is bureaucratic and it's set up by a 00:11:09.200 --> 00:11:12.179 legislative process. So even if somebody wanted, 00:11:12.259 --> 00:11:13.720 like, let's say a housing authority, even if 00:11:13.720 --> 00:11:15.799 a housing authority wanted to say, you know what, 00:11:15.879 --> 00:11:17.799 we're not even looking at criminal records anymore 00:11:17.799 --> 00:11:20.250 as long as it's not a violent crime. Well, they 00:11:20.250 --> 00:11:21.889 were getting in trouble because the federal government 00:11:21.889 --> 00:11:24.289 and the Department of Housing and Urban Development 00:11:24.289 --> 00:11:26.649 was like, no, no, no. We provide you with HUD 00:11:26.649 --> 00:11:29.009 regulations that dictate how this works. And 00:11:29.009 --> 00:11:30.830 if you're going to change a HUD regulation, you 00:11:30.830 --> 00:11:34.730 need to talk to Congress. And so to win over 00:11:34.730 --> 00:11:38.629 congressional officials, it's not the simple 00:11:38.629 --> 00:11:40.490 process. Like, you know, when I was growing up, 00:11:40.490 --> 00:11:43.320 people used to say. Write a letter to your congressman. 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:45.480 You do that now. It's probably not getting read. 00:11:45.679 --> 00:11:49.700 Right. But what what it does matter is numbers, 00:11:49.879 --> 00:11:55.559 statistics, data and an effort to show the impact 00:11:55.559 --> 00:11:57.960 that voters could have on a future election. 00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:01.200 So if you can show that you have a constituency 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.620 that is actively engaged in a policy issue that 00:12:04.620 --> 00:12:07.700 wants to change and if they don't change it, 00:12:07.779 --> 00:12:09.899 that there's going to be repercussions and ramifications. 00:12:11.289 --> 00:12:14.129 Election time. And guess what? Like people respond 00:12:14.129 --> 00:12:15.929 to you. People want to come out, at least do 00:12:15.929 --> 00:12:18.250 a photo op with you, like whatever the case may 00:12:18.250 --> 00:12:20.809 be. So I think there are things that can be done. 00:12:20.889 --> 00:12:24.289 But I wonder sometimes with so many things at 00:12:24.289 --> 00:12:27.490 the state, local and federal level, there's so 00:12:27.490 --> 00:12:29.350 many different groups of people at a time where 00:12:29.350 --> 00:12:31.929 folks aren't necessarily politically educated. 00:12:32.370 --> 00:12:37.580 I wonder if sometimes if we lose our power. Just 00:12:37.580 --> 00:12:40.000 because, you know, most people I deal with, like 00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.659 when I go back to my community, like when I'm 00:12:42.659 --> 00:12:44.700 in the hood, people like I don't want to raise 00:12:44.700 --> 00:12:48.580 my kid. I don't want to be like part of the political 00:12:48.580 --> 00:12:50.580 movement. I don't care about that. Just make 00:12:50.580 --> 00:12:52.779 sure I got money in my pocket. I can take care 00:12:52.779 --> 00:12:55.480 of my kid and that's all. Whereas on the other 00:12:55.480 --> 00:12:57.440 side, when I go to work with the people I work 00:12:57.440 --> 00:12:59.879 with, they're doing fundraisers for political 00:12:59.879 --> 00:13:04.100 candidates like they know the power. So I'm just. 00:13:04.840 --> 00:13:06.740 I don't know. I hate to ask people who are already 00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:08.840 dealing with so much to tell them that they have 00:13:08.840 --> 00:13:10.759 to do more, which we seem to do every four years 00:13:10.759 --> 00:13:14.899 anyway. Right. But I do feel like there is a 00:13:14.899 --> 00:13:18.159 mechanism or lever of power that you miss out 00:13:18.159 --> 00:13:21.940 on that allows these bad policies to flourish 00:13:21.940 --> 00:13:25.659 or perpetuate just because, you know, they beat 00:13:25.659 --> 00:13:28.740 you into submission to a certain extent. And 00:13:28.740 --> 00:13:32.340 then I think lastly, accountability is major. 00:13:32.539 --> 00:13:35.570 Right. Every four years, people come out, like, 00:13:35.610 --> 00:13:37.809 vote for me, vote for me, vote for me. We vote, 00:13:37.830 --> 00:13:40.309 however we vote. People get in office, and then 00:13:40.309 --> 00:13:42.850 you don't see them again until four years from 00:13:42.850 --> 00:13:47.009 now, right? And not just that you don't see them 00:13:47.009 --> 00:13:48.470 because they don't come back to the community, 00:13:48.570 --> 00:13:50.509 but we don't see them because we don't go to 00:13:50.509 --> 00:13:52.350 the meetings. Like, we don't hold people accountable. 00:13:52.610 --> 00:13:54.970 That part. Yeah, we don't go to the meetings. 00:13:55.129 --> 00:13:56.950 We're not going to see what General Assembly 00:13:56.950 --> 00:14:01.259 is doing. We don't pop up, right? They haven't 00:14:01.259 --> 00:14:04.600 really been forced to earn your vote yet. Right. 00:14:05.240 --> 00:14:08.740 And because of that, it is an added thing. I 00:14:08.740 --> 00:14:10.519 know that I'm putting on people's plate, but 00:14:10.519 --> 00:14:12.899 it will be helpful for you to do research on 00:14:12.899 --> 00:14:15.799 people's voting records. And, you know, how do 00:14:15.799 --> 00:14:18.240 they vote? Why do they vote? Like, who are they 00:14:18.240 --> 00:14:21.299 listening to? What do they read? Right. In order 00:14:21.299 --> 00:14:24.120 to see kind of where who they are, why they're 00:14:24.120 --> 00:14:26.720 doing it. And for some people, maybe not everybody. 00:14:27.419 --> 00:14:29.379 But for some people, when I go to the barbershop, 00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.500 they have brilliant ideas about how this place 00:14:32.500 --> 00:14:34.299 could be run. Well, maybe you need to put your 00:14:34.299 --> 00:14:36.720 name on a ballot. Maybe you need to run for something 00:14:36.720 --> 00:14:40.279 because telling me is not helping you. No. I'm 00:14:40.279 --> 00:14:41.919 just here to get my fade and I'm going home. 00:14:42.039 --> 00:14:44.259 I need you to go out here and present this to 00:14:44.259 --> 00:14:48.460 the people. Right. Because, you know, I don't 00:14:48.460 --> 00:14:50.639 believe, you know, and maybe this is, I don't 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:52.259 know, for better or for worse, I don't believe 00:14:52.259 --> 00:14:56.570 that. a career or occupation makes you more or 00:14:56.570 --> 00:15:00.210 less of a person. I think that we have people 00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:02.450 who are brilliant. Most of the law I learned 00:15:02.450 --> 00:15:05.210 was from the clients I represented who were already 00:15:05.210 --> 00:15:07.409 incarcerated and already looked through all the 00:15:07.409 --> 00:15:10.809 cases. I'd be like, check out this case. That's 00:15:10.809 --> 00:15:13.509 not going to work. I would go back and research 00:15:13.509 --> 00:15:17.309 and be like, wow, he was right. That's how you 00:15:17.309 --> 00:15:20.889 learn. I don't feel like... I get this a lot 00:15:20.889 --> 00:15:22.470 at the barbershop where people are like, when 00:15:22.470 --> 00:15:26.389 you go run for office, when you go run, no, I 00:15:26.389 --> 00:15:28.850 like my family. I like my life. I'm not running 00:15:28.850 --> 00:15:31.789 for office, but I can definitely advocate for 00:15:31.789 --> 00:15:33.870 you or, you know, tell you the candidates that 00:15:33.870 --> 00:15:35.610 I know are based on my research who's trying 00:15:35.610 --> 00:15:38.429 to help you accomplish the things that you want. 00:15:38.960 --> 00:15:41.720 But at the same time, like, you know, maybe some 00:15:41.720 --> 00:15:44.100 of you can run like let's put you out there. 00:15:44.179 --> 00:15:46.600 Let's see, because, you know, people get intimidated 00:15:46.600 --> 00:15:49.879 when it comes to things like campaign financing. 00:15:49.980 --> 00:15:51.700 You know, how do I do this? How do I do that? 00:15:52.100 --> 00:15:54.440 It's difficult. If it was easy, everybody would 00:15:54.440 --> 00:15:58.340 do it. Right. But the folks who are in there 00:15:58.340 --> 00:16:02.659 are supposed to be representative of you. And, 00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:05.080 you know, so even things we talked earlier about. 00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:08.059 school -to -prison pipeline. For a while, there 00:16:08.059 --> 00:16:10.720 was a whole movement about privatization of prisons, 00:16:10.919 --> 00:16:13.679 right? You could put a private prison in a certain 00:16:13.679 --> 00:16:16.059 place that would increase access for the purpose 00:16:16.059 --> 00:16:18.679 of expanding your representatives in Congress, 00:16:18.840 --> 00:16:21.259 but yet not give those prisoners the right to 00:16:21.259 --> 00:16:25.519 vote. You would have people getting hired who 00:16:25.519 --> 00:16:28.019 could work at the prisons, but you got a labor 00:16:28.019 --> 00:16:30.179 force of inmates who are going to do the bulk 00:16:30.179 --> 00:16:34.240 of the work. There's so many levels. to this 00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:37.519 and so many policies that I don't present it 00:16:37.519 --> 00:16:40.639 for people to look at the breadth of the policies 00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.259 and say, OK, well, I got to fight everything. 00:16:42.659 --> 00:16:45.759 Right. That's where coalitions come in. So for 00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:49.919 me, I've got people in my Rolodex who. If there's, 00:16:49.919 --> 00:16:52.120 you know, a police killing, a wrongful police 00:16:52.120 --> 00:16:54.480 killing, I got an attorney I can call to help 00:16:54.480 --> 00:16:56.960 you with that. Right. If there's something with 00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:58.960 housing, I can be the person to help you with 00:16:58.960 --> 00:17:00.720 that. Right. If there's something dealing with, 00:17:00.820 --> 00:17:02.759 you know, anything else, like you've got people 00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.440 to deal with that. And that's the coalition building 00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:07.160 you need in order to change the laws, because 00:17:07.160 --> 00:17:09.579 everybody can't be experts on everything. No, 00:17:09.619 --> 00:17:13.289 sir. You shouldn't. You shouldn't. It'll drive 00:17:13.289 --> 00:17:17.710 you crazy. Not recommended. If you're enjoying 00:17:17.710 --> 00:17:20.930 the show as much as we love creating it, consider 00:17:20.930 --> 00:17:24.309 showing your support by buying us a cup of coffee. 00:17:24.630 --> 00:17:30.190 Visit buymeacoffee .com slash Nyesha Frey O. 00:17:30.670 --> 00:17:37.630 That's buymeacoffee .com forward slash Nyesha 00:17:37.630 --> 00:17:42.579 Frey O. All one word. Each cup is just five dollars 00:17:42.579 --> 00:17:46.140 and every single one helps us continue to produce, 00:17:46.460 --> 00:17:49.700 develop and sustain the high quality content 00:17:49.700 --> 00:17:52.799 you've come to expect from questions you didn't 00:17:52.799 --> 00:17:56.299 ask. Thank you for your continued support. And 00:17:56.299 --> 00:17:59.359 let's keep the conversation going. So let me 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:01.920 let me ask you. You're touching on so many things 00:18:01.920 --> 00:18:03.900 that I want to talk about. I appreciate this 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:06.859 so much. And I knew you would. So. You know, 00:18:06.940 --> 00:18:10.039 we're talking a lot about policies. You talked 00:18:10.039 --> 00:18:12.740 about expungement so well, what the limitations 00:18:12.740 --> 00:18:15.640 are. You talked about bureaucracy. So one of 00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:17.900 my new, and I don't know how new it is, maybe 00:18:17.900 --> 00:18:19.779 it's just new for me in terms of, you know, my 00:18:19.779 --> 00:18:23.700 soapbox, if you will, is how bureaucracy is an 00:18:23.700 --> 00:18:26.619 instrument of institutionalized racism, right? 00:18:27.259 --> 00:18:30.619 And everywhere that I haven't, and I think the 00:18:30.619 --> 00:18:33.779 reason why that's now my new soapbox is that 00:18:33.779 --> 00:18:37.730 I've started to see it. in action. a lot more 00:18:37.730 --> 00:18:40.910 in my life recently. I've seen it affect me and 00:18:40.910 --> 00:18:45.210 other people that I care about. And so there's 00:18:45.210 --> 00:18:49.390 levels to everything, right? And so like you 00:18:49.390 --> 00:18:52.009 talked about, there might be a group at a certain 00:18:52.009 --> 00:18:53.730 level that wants to do something, they're ready 00:18:53.730 --> 00:18:56.269 to move, but then there's another group at another 00:18:56.269 --> 00:18:58.670 level that have power and oversight over them 00:18:58.670 --> 00:19:01.630 that restrict that, right? And so then you try 00:19:01.630 --> 00:19:04.309 to find some sort of compromise so that you don't 00:19:04.309 --> 00:19:09.740 wind up in a bigger... cluster, right? So when 00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:13.819 we think about, you know, things like expungement, 00:19:13.839 --> 00:19:16.960 when we think about things like, you know, these 00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:20.680 predatory housing and fact that, you know, certain 00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:23.759 people can't get jobs because of their background, 00:19:23.900 --> 00:19:25.900 because of their criminal record, they can't 00:19:25.900 --> 00:19:28.359 get housing, they can't qualify for Medicaid, 00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:33.200 they can't qualify for food stamps, right? Who 00:19:33.200 --> 00:19:36.250 do you think? benefits from maintaining these 00:19:36.250 --> 00:19:39.970 restrictions? And I think I know the answer. 00:19:40.130 --> 00:19:43.329 You probably said the answer. Who suffers? Other 00:19:43.329 --> 00:19:47.170 than the obvious, right? The direct person that 00:19:47.170 --> 00:19:49.210 is told, no, we know they're suffering because 00:19:49.210 --> 00:19:50.509 they can't get to the house and they can't get. 00:19:51.029 --> 00:19:53.750 But what's the fallout? Who benefits and then 00:19:53.750 --> 00:19:56.390 what's the fallout? So this is actually a very 00:19:56.390 --> 00:20:00.029 deep question, right? So any kind of system that's 00:20:00.029 --> 00:20:02.230 based on the white supremacist construct is going 00:20:02.230 --> 00:20:06.150 to be white heterosexual men. a benefit. I'll 00:20:06.150 --> 00:20:09.049 explain why that is. Think about it like this. 00:20:09.470 --> 00:20:11.890 Some of the people in government who are the 00:20:11.890 --> 00:20:14.390 biggest opponents of things like immigration 00:20:14.390 --> 00:20:17.569 are folks who are partnered with folks who have 00:20:17.569 --> 00:20:20.069 corporations that benefit entirely on immigrant 00:20:20.069 --> 00:20:24.009 labor, right? The reason that they wanted to 00:20:24.009 --> 00:20:25.710 be illegal is because they want to have the threat 00:20:25.710 --> 00:20:28.549 of deportation if people working for them don't 00:20:28.549 --> 00:20:31.809 want to act right, right? It's not that they're 00:20:31.809 --> 00:20:33.630 trying to stop and build a wall and all that 00:20:33.630 --> 00:20:35.769 stuff they claim they care about, right? It's 00:20:35.769 --> 00:20:37.430 the fact that we need somebody to be out here 00:20:37.430 --> 00:20:39.069 doing this work, right? And they want to stay. 00:20:39.890 --> 00:20:42.470 We're not going to do it. So how do we do it 00:20:42.470 --> 00:20:45.690 in a way that people have limited rights? If 00:20:45.690 --> 00:20:48.190 you deem folks to have like a faster pathway 00:20:48.190 --> 00:20:51.420 to American citizenship. Then now you get access 00:20:51.420 --> 00:20:53.319 to the benefits of being an American citizen, 00:20:53.500 --> 00:20:55.779 which means you're going to have minimum wage. 00:20:56.059 --> 00:20:58.140 You're going to have certain employee employer 00:20:58.140 --> 00:21:01.299 relations. Right. It has to be set up and you 00:21:01.299 --> 00:21:03.619 can get a complaint to the EEOC if you don't. 00:21:03.619 --> 00:21:05.759 All right. They don't want that. They don't want 00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:07.359 it. They want the they want the just like with 00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.859 us. They want the labor, not the issues. They 00:21:10.859 --> 00:21:12.460 don't want the accountability. They don't want 00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:14.940 the accountability. Right. But it's just fascinating 00:21:14.940 --> 00:21:17.769 to see how many people. will be, oh, build a 00:21:17.769 --> 00:21:20.970 wall, build a wall, build a wall. It's like you 00:21:20.970 --> 00:21:23.130 work for this, you know, this canning company. 00:21:23.269 --> 00:21:26.650 And I know that y 'all don't even give me start. 00:21:26.769 --> 00:21:30.269 Right. Everything, even when you look at, you 00:21:30.269 --> 00:21:32.990 know, one of my lessons that I teach my young 00:21:32.990 --> 00:21:36.529 people all the time is people are going to eat 00:21:36.529 --> 00:21:39.950 regardless. So what does that mean? That means 00:21:39.950 --> 00:21:43.690 that folks who are actually humble enough to 00:21:43.690 --> 00:21:46.069 come down to the county social services building. 00:21:46.460 --> 00:21:49.940 to apply for food stamps or to apply for benefits, 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.740 those are the people who are trying, right? But 00:21:53.740 --> 00:21:56.240 if you tell them no, they still going to eat. 00:21:56.380 --> 00:21:58.259 It's just a matter of how's the food going to 00:21:58.259 --> 00:22:01.400 get there, right? And there are some people in 00:22:01.400 --> 00:22:03.519 our community who don't even have the patience 00:22:03.519 --> 00:22:05.500 to do the application, right? They're like, oh, 00:22:05.539 --> 00:22:06.940 I'm going to eat with grass. I don't care what 00:22:06.940 --> 00:22:11.099 you got to say, right? So my thing is, if there's 00:22:11.099 --> 00:22:14.890 somebody behind the screen who knows that. So 00:22:14.890 --> 00:22:16.970 they're like, okay, if you're going to eat regardless, 00:22:17.150 --> 00:22:20.190 and we tell you no, that helps us. Because if 00:22:20.190 --> 00:22:22.650 you do something criminal, feed you in our system, 00:22:22.970 --> 00:22:25.470 now we can exploit you for your labor. It's all 00:22:25.470 --> 00:22:27.569 tricks. These are traps that are set out for 00:22:27.569 --> 00:22:30.750 you, right? If you can't find housing, then you 00:22:30.750 --> 00:22:32.269 got to live with someone else. But if you live 00:22:32.269 --> 00:22:34.509 with someone else who's also renting, now they're 00:22:34.509 --> 00:22:37.109 in violation of their lease. So what? Either 00:22:37.109 --> 00:22:39.589 you can increase the rent or evict them too, 00:22:39.769 --> 00:22:43.529 right? So it's a system. It's a vicious system, 00:22:43.630 --> 00:22:45.309 right? I don't want to sound like Malcolm X, 00:22:45.390 --> 00:22:47.250 but it's a corrupt, vicious, hypocritical system. 00:22:47.250 --> 00:22:49.750 Please sound like Malcolm X on my show. Go right 00:22:49.750 --> 00:22:54.970 ahead. It's a system, right? And there's always 00:22:54.970 --> 00:22:57.630 somebody with a handout who's going to benefit 00:22:57.630 --> 00:23:02.049 from you, whether you do the system or not, right? 00:23:02.430 --> 00:23:06.309 What I always tell people is I don't think anybody 00:23:06.309 --> 00:23:10.089 should ever feel ashamed. for applying for any 00:23:10.089 --> 00:23:14.349 social benefit that we offer. Never feel ashamed. 00:23:14.690 --> 00:23:18.910 Reason why? You pay taxes, right? You pay taxes, 00:23:18.930 --> 00:23:21.029 and this is the government's way of returning 00:23:21.029 --> 00:23:23.650 your taxes to you in some way, shape, or form 00:23:23.650 --> 00:23:27.069 that allows you to live a more full life. So 00:23:27.069 --> 00:23:31.170 you should do it, right? I also feel like there 00:23:31.170 --> 00:23:33.710 are tons of benefits that people who are getting 00:23:33.710 --> 00:23:37.099 food stamps don't even know about. Let me tell 00:23:37.099 --> 00:23:38.960 you about corporate subsidies and how they work. 00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:42.500 You may be thinking, oh, I'm asking for too much 00:23:42.500 --> 00:23:45.079 if I'm trying to get $400 a month in food stamps. 00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.400 But they think about $400 million that they're 00:23:48.400 --> 00:23:51.279 trying to get in corporate subsidies. So these 00:23:51.279 --> 00:23:55.319 corporations are getting over on your tax money. 00:23:55.539 --> 00:23:58.079 They take advantage of their government. And 00:23:58.079 --> 00:23:59.900 I'm not knocking the corporations. That's what 00:23:59.900 --> 00:24:03.160 it's for, right? So if we are feeling ashamed. 00:24:03.980 --> 00:24:07.579 to take like what is a minuscule percentage of 00:24:07.579 --> 00:24:10.259 what we pay into the system. And we're made to 00:24:10.259 --> 00:24:12.839 feel ashamed or like welfare queen, whatever 00:24:12.839 --> 00:24:15.579 the case may be. But they out here basically 00:24:15.579 --> 00:24:18.599 financing all sorts of arms development or whatever 00:24:18.599 --> 00:24:21.339 with government money that you paid for. What's 00:24:21.339 --> 00:24:23.910 the issue? Just like at the barbershop now, a 00:24:23.910 --> 00:24:25.750 lot of people say a lot of stuff about Ukraine. 00:24:26.089 --> 00:24:28.349 Like we send a lot of money to Ukraine. It's 00:24:28.349 --> 00:24:30.390 funny how when we ask for reparations, ain't 00:24:30.390 --> 00:24:32.849 no money, right? But when we're in Ukraine, we're 00:24:32.849 --> 00:24:34.890 like, yo, can I get another? Or universal health 00:24:34.890 --> 00:24:37.829 care, universal child care, anything like that. 00:24:38.450 --> 00:24:40.589 Absolutely. And that's the thing. The government 00:24:40.589 --> 00:24:42.750 pays for the things that it wants to pay for, 00:24:42.849 --> 00:24:45.589 the things that it cares about, right? So it 00:24:45.589 --> 00:24:47.849 tells you it's kind of a vicious slap in the 00:24:47.849 --> 00:24:49.970 face, particularly in the Black community. about 00:24:49.970 --> 00:24:53.589 what they think about us, right? So I think that 00:24:53.589 --> 00:24:56.150 you should definitely take advantage of anything 00:24:56.150 --> 00:24:59.589 that is out here and available for you to have 00:24:59.589 --> 00:25:02.349 and use to better your life through the government. 00:25:02.549 --> 00:25:04.450 I also think that's the point of government. 00:25:04.609 --> 00:25:06.829 Like the government is supposed to be for us 00:25:06.829 --> 00:25:10.670 by us. So if the government is set up for us, 00:25:10.829 --> 00:25:12.849 it should be for our benefit, not for the benefit 00:25:12.849 --> 00:25:16.630 of a select few. I think that the issue with 00:25:16.630 --> 00:25:19.210 just the United States of America generally, 00:25:19.450 --> 00:25:26.190 is our ideals are awesome. If we lived up to 00:25:26.190 --> 00:25:29.589 our ideals, we'd be the best place in the universe. 00:25:30.069 --> 00:25:33.069 Seriously. But the problem is the people who 00:25:33.069 --> 00:25:36.410 came up with those ideas were white elite people 00:25:36.410 --> 00:25:39.970 who were slave owners. And they didn't really 00:25:39.970 --> 00:25:42.950 want everybody to have it. They wanted them to 00:25:42.950 --> 00:25:47.359 have it. Right. So we've never been able to rectify 00:25:47.359 --> 00:25:49.740 that. It's always been, well, somebody who's 00:25:49.740 --> 00:25:53.500 a white heterosexual man has to be in charge 00:25:53.500 --> 00:25:55.799 of the system. And not even just white heterosexual 00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:59.220 male, white heterosexual affluent male has to 00:25:59.220 --> 00:26:00.839 always be in charge of the system. So if you 00:26:00.839 --> 00:26:03.039 look at the presidential election, you got Kamala 00:26:03.039 --> 00:26:07.009 Harris versus what? A white affluent. Right. 00:26:07.369 --> 00:26:09.450 That's the way that it always is going to work. 00:26:09.490 --> 00:26:11.289 That's the way that they always want to feed 00:26:11.289 --> 00:26:14.910 it to us. And what we are now showing is that. 00:26:15.400 --> 00:26:17.859 it doesn't have to be that way, right? Like we 00:26:17.859 --> 00:26:20.700 have other people with other ideas. On top of 00:26:20.700 --> 00:26:23.200 that, you know, I always make fun of this kind 00:26:23.200 --> 00:26:25.680 of white supremacist construct. They developed 00:26:25.680 --> 00:26:28.420 this thing called the one drop rule to keep black 00:26:28.420 --> 00:26:30.559 people from being accepted into white society. 00:26:30.960 --> 00:26:33.279 But we're at a point in American history now 00:26:33.279 --> 00:26:36.039 where those numbers is changing and that one 00:26:36.039 --> 00:26:38.180 drop rule means you can't create whiteness. You 00:26:38.180 --> 00:26:42.329 can only create more. Black. So if you still 00:26:42.329 --> 00:26:44.549 follow the one drop rule and you got one drop 00:26:44.549 --> 00:26:46.170 of black, you might want to come on over here 00:26:46.170 --> 00:26:48.710 with us. You would have. And the problem is that's 00:26:48.710 --> 00:26:51.250 changing up your mathematical dynamics for your 00:26:51.250 --> 00:26:53.670 elections because they call it the browning of 00:26:53.670 --> 00:26:56.569 America. But, you know, people are like, OK, 00:26:56.630 --> 00:27:00.589 well, we've got to force feed our way into societies 00:27:00.589 --> 00:27:03.009 that we didn't have to previously deal with. 00:27:03.529 --> 00:27:06.109 And so that's why you get your Mark Robinsons, 00:27:06.109 --> 00:27:08.170 right? Somebody who's Black and wants to say, 00:27:08.210 --> 00:27:10.769 I want to own slaves. That's why you get that, 00:27:10.849 --> 00:27:13.349 because you need him to influence a group of 00:27:13.349 --> 00:27:15.970 people to vote against their interests, right? 00:27:16.130 --> 00:27:19.529 Herschel Walker. Herschel Walker, right, right? 00:27:20.690 --> 00:27:22.730 To the point that, you know, some of them, like, 00:27:22.809 --> 00:27:24.990 especially during COVID, like Herman Cain was 00:27:24.990 --> 00:27:29.740 at a party during COVID. And I'm like, yo, and 00:27:29.740 --> 00:27:31.700 then it ends up passing away. And you just act 00:27:31.700 --> 00:27:34.980 like nothing happened. Absolutely nothing happened. 00:27:35.099 --> 00:27:37.220 I don't believe in COVID. It's the cause of death, 00:27:37.259 --> 00:27:42.539 COVID. So it's one of those things where I oftentimes 00:27:42.539 --> 00:27:47.220 feel bad because I've studied, I've read all 00:27:47.220 --> 00:27:49.359 this stuff, and you probably can tell I'm an 00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:52.400 avid reader. I read newspapers every day, magazines 00:27:52.400 --> 00:27:56.140 every day, all that stuff. It's frustrating because 00:27:56.140 --> 00:27:59.099 for me to know what I know and to work in the 00:27:59.099 --> 00:28:02.359 space that I work and be fighting for change, 00:28:02.759 --> 00:28:05.859 but then know that like, it's like whack -a -mole. 00:28:05.940 --> 00:28:07.819 You get one thing bad, there's gonna be 10 more 00:28:07.819 --> 00:28:10.559 things that come up. And it's just no way of 00:28:10.559 --> 00:28:13.460 battling on. I can't imagine what somebody who 00:28:13.460 --> 00:28:15.019 all they're trying to do is work and raise their 00:28:15.019 --> 00:28:17.700 kid and don't read any of this stuff. I can't 00:28:17.700 --> 00:28:20.740 imagine like the levels of like psychological 00:28:20.740 --> 00:28:23.660 warfare that you see it on your TV or whatever. 00:28:24.380 --> 00:28:28.059 or your kid watching on YouTube. The levels of 00:28:28.059 --> 00:28:31.160 this stuff to deter you and detract you from 00:28:31.160 --> 00:28:33.779 questioning and challenging the system is astronomical. 00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:38.220 It sometimes can feel like we're not getting 00:28:38.220 --> 00:28:40.720 anywhere and then I always get hope when I'm 00:28:40.720 --> 00:28:43.460 at a meeting or a convention and I see other 00:28:43.460 --> 00:28:46.779 people who look like me who understand and who 00:28:46.779 --> 00:28:49.700 are doing it in their respective fields. That's 00:28:49.700 --> 00:28:53.960 inspirational. It keeps me going. Yeah, I think 00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:57.519 we are all way more brilliant than anybody in 00:28:57.519 --> 00:29:00.720 this system has ever given us credit for. I think 00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.140 that we don't always apply to brilliance because 00:29:03.140 --> 00:29:06.339 it's just a lot to deal with. But at the same 00:29:06.339 --> 00:29:08.400 time, I feel like it don't take much, right? 00:29:08.500 --> 00:29:10.599 It doesn't take much if we can encourage each 00:29:10.599 --> 00:29:13.279 other to build our own coalitions or whatever. 00:29:13.539 --> 00:29:17.059 And then just to hark back to. kind of this immigration 00:29:17.059 --> 00:29:21.720 piece, right? So the immigration piece is a calculated 00:29:21.720 --> 00:29:26.519 risk. And what I mean by that is there are images 00:29:26.519 --> 00:29:30.839 of kind of what Black people are that are projected 00:29:30.839 --> 00:29:33.920 to folks who come here from other places. Child, 00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:35.880 now you about to talk about something. Go ahead. 00:29:36.240 --> 00:29:39.250 Go ahead. I'm going to give you some room. So 00:29:39.250 --> 00:29:42.950 the whole point is to perpetuate archaic stereotypes 00:29:42.950 --> 00:29:46.130 about who we are, how violent we are, how dangerous 00:29:46.130 --> 00:29:48.329 we are, so that there will be acceptance. How 00:29:48.329 --> 00:29:51.430 lazy we are. How lazy we are at the building 00:29:51.430 --> 00:29:54.970 of the country. Imagine that. Oh, yeah. So they 00:29:54.970 --> 00:29:58.190 put this out there so that they can win acceptance 00:29:58.190 --> 00:30:00.930 and establish kind of this white supremacist 00:30:00.930 --> 00:30:04.130 mantle that people can somehow immigrate and 00:30:04.130 --> 00:30:06.759 bleed into regardless of how they look. With 00:30:06.759 --> 00:30:08.799 the full understanding that they're never going 00:30:08.799 --> 00:30:11.660 to, on the other side, they're never going to 00:30:11.660 --> 00:30:15.099 integrate fully into that society, right? Yeah, 00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:18.480 not the rich white elite. You can strive for 00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:21.880 it. Right, but it's the otherism. It's, well, 00:30:22.019 --> 00:30:26.299 at least you'll be better than Jaquan. You're 00:30:26.299 --> 00:30:29.559 better than Jaquan. And the problem is that people 00:30:29.559 --> 00:30:31.640 don't understand that Jaquan been getting money. 00:30:31.779 --> 00:30:33.960 Jaquan do what he's supposed to do. He got his 00:30:33.960 --> 00:30:37.559 degrees. He do whatever it is. You see that with 00:30:37.559 --> 00:30:40.279 sisters all the time. The fact that all of these 00:30:40.279 --> 00:30:42.960 obstacles were made to keep Black women from 00:30:42.960 --> 00:30:44.700 doing things, but yet, who's the most educated 00:30:44.700 --> 00:30:48.059 group of people in America? The thing about Black 00:30:48.059 --> 00:30:49.920 people that they haven't figured out yet, we 00:30:49.920 --> 00:30:53.220 gonna figure it out. We gonna find a way. You 00:30:53.220 --> 00:30:55.140 can't tell me I can't do something. I just gotta 00:30:55.140 --> 00:30:57.900 be creative about it. I'll figure it out. So, 00:30:57.900 --> 00:31:01.029 it's this. It's like, how do you create... a 00:31:01.029 --> 00:31:04.390 party that's based on a mantle of a white supremacist 00:31:04.390 --> 00:31:07.970 construct when you don't have the the numbers 00:31:07.970 --> 00:31:11.650 to sustain the white supremacy exclusively right 00:31:11.650 --> 00:31:14.630 when you created the race label in the first 00:31:14.630 --> 00:31:17.250 place thank you for joining us on questions you 00:31:17.250 --> 00:31:20.410 didn't ask With me, Naisha Frey, and my guest, 00:31:20.650 --> 00:31:23.710 Jesse McCoy. Tune in next week as we continue 00:31:23.710 --> 00:31:28.210 our series, Justice or Just Us? How Law, Health, 00:31:28.349 --> 00:31:30.390 and Equity Collide in America.