WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.500 Hey y 'all, welcome to Questions You Didn't Ask. 00:00:02.839 --> 00:00:07.179 Did you know that this very spot could be showcasing 00:00:07.179 --> 00:00:10.320 your business or event? Whether it's an audio 00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.460 ad on our podcast, or a visual ad on our new 00:00:14.460 --> 00:00:18.100 YouTube station, or even both, we've got the 00:00:18.100 --> 00:00:21.620 space for you. Nyesha Frey Consulting is reaching 00:00:21.620 --> 00:00:24.420 a growing audience of over a thousand leaders 00:00:24.420 --> 00:00:27.839 who are passionate about health equity, social 00:00:27.839 --> 00:00:32.070 justice, and civil rights activism. These are 00:00:32.070 --> 00:00:35.329 professionals just like you working across higher 00:00:35.329 --> 00:00:40.409 education, research, healthcare, nonprofit, government, 00:00:40.590 --> 00:00:44.030 and even public health sectors. If you're ready 00:00:44.030 --> 00:00:46.630 to get your message in front of a dedicated and 00:00:46.630 --> 00:00:52.469 engaged audience, send me an email at naishafrayconsultingllc 00:00:52.469 --> 00:00:57.149 at gmail .com. Let's talk about how we can help 00:00:57.149 --> 00:00:59.710 you connect with the people who need to hear 00:00:59.710 --> 00:01:02.829 about your services and products that advance 00:01:02.829 --> 00:01:06.969 health equity and wellness. Don't miss out. Get 00:01:06.969 --> 00:01:09.269 in the mix and let's make an impact together. 00:01:19.810 --> 00:01:22.450 Welcome back to Questions You Didn't Ask with 00:01:22.450 --> 00:01:25.489 me, Naisha Frey, and my guests, Melba Perry and 00:01:25.489 --> 00:01:28.299 Jessica Burris. As we continue the series from 00:01:28.299 --> 00:01:31.379 birth to beyond, unveiling challenges of maternal 00:01:31.379 --> 00:01:34.219 and infant health. Let's get back into the discussion. 00:01:34.500 --> 00:01:38.959 I really appreciate you shedding light on the 00:01:38.959 --> 00:01:43.420 mental health of fathers and father figures, 00:01:43.659 --> 00:01:48.120 male birthing support people in that situation, 00:01:48.439 --> 00:01:51.579 their emotional health and well -being while 00:01:51.579 --> 00:01:54.549 they are supporting the mother. And after the 00:01:54.549 --> 00:01:58.849 birth of the child, it matters too. I really 00:01:58.849 --> 00:02:05.409 appreciate you speaking on how these men, or 00:02:05.409 --> 00:02:08.189 even if it's a woman, you know, supporting another 00:02:08.189 --> 00:02:11.849 woman, if they're in a domestic relationship 00:02:11.849 --> 00:02:15.550 where they are seeing each other on a routine 00:02:15.550 --> 00:02:17.750 basis, waking up and going to sleep, whether 00:02:17.750 --> 00:02:19.770 or not they're sexually involved or not, we're 00:02:19.770 --> 00:02:24.009 not making any statements about that. They do 00:02:24.009 --> 00:02:27.150 have a very unique and important perspective 00:02:27.150 --> 00:02:34.849 on the actual well -being and health of the mother. 00:02:34.909 --> 00:02:38.909 And women, for a number of different reasons, 00:02:39.030 --> 00:02:43.870 and Black women in particular, commonly are cultured 00:02:43.870 --> 00:02:50.789 to downplay a lot of our ailments, a lot of our... 00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:56.000 mental health issues, pain, discomfort. And so 00:02:56.000 --> 00:03:00.580 having a caring partner there to talk to the 00:03:00.580 --> 00:03:03.300 doula, talk to the healthcare professionals, 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:07.500 talk to the WIC counselors, whoever, to help 00:03:07.500 --> 00:03:10.919 be a voice for this woman who may not be able 00:03:10.919 --> 00:03:13.780 to articulate or may not, for whatever reason, 00:03:13.819 --> 00:03:16.500 be willing to share, to truly share what it is 00:03:16.500 --> 00:03:19.539 that she's going through. And I think that that's 00:03:19.539 --> 00:03:21.840 just really powerful to acknowledge and lift 00:03:21.840 --> 00:03:26.259 up that there is a place, a very important place 00:03:26.259 --> 00:03:29.699 and a very important role of the males in this 00:03:29.699 --> 00:03:32.340 situation and their mental health matters, too. 00:03:32.860 --> 00:03:37.740 Absolutely. It's like for me, I come. We're one 00:03:37.740 --> 00:03:41.789 big family for like. Because you have to have 00:03:41.789 --> 00:03:44.810 that trust and relationship, not just what the 00:03:44.810 --> 00:03:47.729 mom or the mother to be, but you have to have 00:03:47.729 --> 00:03:50.569 that trust and relationship with the whole family 00:03:50.569 --> 00:03:55.289 unit. Because you got to think you having somebody 00:03:55.289 --> 00:04:00.129 that you don't know coming into your space. Do 00:04:00.129 --> 00:04:03.909 I trust them? How do I feel about them? You have 00:04:03.909 --> 00:04:07.689 to, you know, make sure that you let them know. 00:04:08.219 --> 00:04:10.520 I'm not just here to support her. I'm here to 00:04:10.520 --> 00:04:13.819 support you as well. I'm here to support the 00:04:13.819 --> 00:04:16.279 family as a unit because there may be things 00:04:16.279 --> 00:04:20.560 going on that mom don't want to talk about. But 00:04:20.560 --> 00:04:24.439 dad is like, look, I don't know how we're going 00:04:24.439 --> 00:04:27.459 to do this when she get ready to go back to work. 00:04:28.480 --> 00:04:31.779 Help us make a plan. Help us make a plan. Like 00:04:31.779 --> 00:04:35.019 she wants to breastfeed. I don't see her breastfeeding 00:04:35.019 --> 00:04:38.019 because she got to go back to work. We got kids 00:04:38.019 --> 00:04:41.920 in daycare. We got who's going to pick up, who's 00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.019 going to drop off like different things. And 00:04:45.019 --> 00:04:48.240 for me as a community -based doula, it's my job 00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:50.579 to be like, okay, you have this problem here, 00:04:50.680 --> 00:04:53.980 here, and here. Don't worry about that. I'm going 00:04:53.980 --> 00:04:56.759 to see if I can help find some resources to help 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:00.560 you get past it or something to help bridge you 00:05:00.560 --> 00:05:03.639 through that until we figure something out. At 00:05:03.639 --> 00:05:05.920 least that's one less thing they have to stress. 00:05:06.389 --> 00:05:09.410 their stuff's about trying to find. I'm like, 00:05:09.470 --> 00:05:12.149 we'll figure it out. Let me see. Let me look 00:05:12.149 --> 00:05:14.990 at what type of insurance do you have? Oh, you 00:05:14.990 --> 00:05:16.990 have this type of insurance. Let me see what's 00:05:16.990 --> 00:05:19.730 in your benefits that you can call the insurance 00:05:19.730 --> 00:05:22.930 company and ask for. A lot of people don't realize 00:05:22.930 --> 00:05:26.509 how much benefits they have with their insurance 00:05:26.509 --> 00:05:30.750 companies, with Medicaid and different types 00:05:30.750 --> 00:05:32.410 of UnitedHealthcare, Blue Cross Blue Shield, 00:05:32.589 --> 00:05:35.790 all of that stuff. A lot of them. Like recently, 00:05:35.910 --> 00:05:38.189 one of my clients was like, I had a healthy blue 00:05:38.189 --> 00:05:42.689 and I was able to get a $25 gift card for school 00:05:42.689 --> 00:05:45.350 supplies that I didn't even know. Like little 00:05:45.350 --> 00:05:49.149 small stuff like that. They don't think about 00:05:49.149 --> 00:05:52.870 doing the investigation and seeing what they 00:05:52.870 --> 00:05:56.269 can get from these insurance companies. And most 00:05:56.269 --> 00:05:58.389 of the time, they're not going to just say, hey, 00:05:59.189 --> 00:06:02.709 you know, we're giving this away for free. Which 00:06:02.709 --> 00:06:04.709 they probably should do better about, you know, 00:06:04.730 --> 00:06:07.629 and that's one of the things. Right. You know, 00:06:07.649 --> 00:06:09.350 especially if they know that they're receiving 00:06:09.350 --> 00:06:13.110 claims for a woman that's having a baby and, 00:06:13.129 --> 00:06:16.370 you know, and then we also have challenges with, 00:06:16.410 --> 00:06:18.310 I know I'll speak for myself and Jessica, we're 00:06:18.310 --> 00:06:20.810 going to come to you in a second, in that, you 00:06:20.810 --> 00:06:24.709 know, I get inundated with so many emails, phone 00:06:24.709 --> 00:06:29.920 calls, text messages. And what I love about what 00:06:29.920 --> 00:06:33.620 you're sharing, Melba, is that as a community 00:06:33.620 --> 00:06:37.019 -based doula, sometimes you can be that extra 00:06:37.019 --> 00:06:43.319 brain for a mother, for a couple, for a family, 00:06:43.399 --> 00:06:47.199 where, you know, we struggle to have enough brain 00:06:47.199 --> 00:06:50.819 power to do all of the things, right? It's like, 00:06:50.819 --> 00:06:52.899 yeah, that sounds like a great idea, but who, 00:06:52.899 --> 00:06:56.000 when, and where, you know? And so being able 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:58.480 to have someone to say, make this phone call, 00:06:58.660 --> 00:07:00.920 ask for this person, hit this extension number, 00:07:01.079 --> 00:07:04.540 complete that form, or give me your information 00:07:04.540 --> 00:07:07.060 so I can help you get the application started, 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.399 right? All those things help to empower people 00:07:11.399 --> 00:07:14.819 to be healthier and to better utilize the resources 00:07:14.819 --> 00:07:18.699 that are available. But I do believe in transformative 00:07:18.699 --> 00:07:22.720 systems change where we should have better health 00:07:22.720 --> 00:07:27.040 systems that make a lot of these things more 00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:31.240 automated, okay? Take some of the thinking out 00:07:31.240 --> 00:07:34.699 of it. And can we use some of this AI technology 00:07:34.699 --> 00:07:37.699 and all this other technology for something other 00:07:37.699 --> 00:07:41.920 than these frivolous annoyances, right? And so 00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:46.040 that also leads me to, you know, Jessica, in 00:07:46.040 --> 00:07:50.899 terms of the postpartum, the breastfeeding part, 00:07:50.980 --> 00:07:53.959 the care and support, how do you incorporate 00:07:54.750 --> 00:07:58.790 the family, the men and boys, right? The sons, 00:07:58.949 --> 00:08:01.970 maybe the grandparents and what have you. How 00:08:01.970 --> 00:08:04.689 do you see their role in that process related 00:08:04.689 --> 00:08:08.029 to breastfeeding and breast health and all that 00:08:08.029 --> 00:08:11.769 good stuff, maternal health? Well, I talk a lot. 00:08:11.970 --> 00:08:16.750 So my husband had a whole education series about 00:08:16.750 --> 00:08:20.790 breastfeeding when I had both kids, but he saw 00:08:20.790 --> 00:08:24.620 firsthand. Well, he was just supportive, but 00:08:24.620 --> 00:08:27.399 I also demanded support, but that doesn't always 00:08:27.399 --> 00:08:29.680 work, but he was very supportive. It was actually 00:08:29.680 --> 00:08:33.259 easier on him too, just because there was less 00:08:33.259 --> 00:08:35.259 things to do, you know, when you're breastfeeding. 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.720 But I think I just pretty much educated him too, 00:08:38.820 --> 00:08:42.240 and just let him know the benefits of, you know, 00:08:42.240 --> 00:08:44.639 if we breastfeed and if you support me with breastfeeding, 00:08:44.659 --> 00:08:47.519 if you're here for me, this is how bad, you know, 00:08:47.519 --> 00:08:51.340 it could be better. And, and not just better 00:08:51.340 --> 00:08:55.409 with. not as many bottles or we sleep more or 00:08:55.409 --> 00:08:59.330 sleep better, but just the health benefits. And 00:08:59.330 --> 00:09:01.409 I think that's what got him is just educating 00:09:01.409 --> 00:09:05.289 him on the health benefits for the baby and specifically 00:09:05.289 --> 00:09:08.769 for me, because you know how they say, if you 00:09:08.769 --> 00:09:10.669 breastfeed, you know, you lose weight faster. 00:09:10.830 --> 00:09:13.649 It's really not that it's just that you're, you're 00:09:13.649 --> 00:09:16.970 literally like getting like expelling and just. 00:09:17.309 --> 00:09:21.330 recovering from from pregnancy he could see firsthand 00:09:21.330 --> 00:09:24.950 whenever it was feeding time i was like in a 00:09:24.950 --> 00:09:27.789 daze like i was high or something because that 00:09:27.789 --> 00:09:32.509 what is it the oxytocin is that right melba you 00:09:32.509 --> 00:09:36.169 know serotonin it's the good hormones that make 00:09:36.169 --> 00:09:41.259 it it's oxytocin too is it oxytocin yeah so but 00:09:41.259 --> 00:09:44.279 you can feel it like you could feel it you just 00:09:44.279 --> 00:09:48.059 feel so calm i just remember just i just remember 00:09:48.059 --> 00:09:50.740 being just you know just chill and i felt good 00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:55.500 about myself and i can't say i didn't have postpartum 00:09:55.500 --> 00:09:58.620 but i mean i i know that's real i mean i've seen 00:09:58.620 --> 00:10:03.580 it but i do think that if it if if it does help 00:10:03.580 --> 00:10:07.139 with postpartum and just you know better mental 00:10:07.139 --> 00:10:09.379 health, like after a baby or just really, it's 00:10:09.379 --> 00:10:11.519 just the changeover of hormones when you have 00:10:11.519 --> 00:10:14.039 a baby. Cause it's so quick. As soon as you have 00:10:14.039 --> 00:10:16.820 your baby, just the switching the hormone levels 00:10:16.820 --> 00:10:20.580 of your body is crazy. So, and I think that's 00:10:20.580 --> 00:10:26.200 a lot to do with postpartum, but if, if it works, 00:10:26.259 --> 00:10:30.799 then I felt it, but I don't know. I just, I got 00:10:30.799 --> 00:10:33.059 my husband involved. He's really the one I talked 00:10:33.059 --> 00:10:35.840 to. I mean, I've pretty much have given lessons 00:10:35.840 --> 00:10:38.139 to like my oldest daughter, my sister, she's 00:10:38.139 --> 00:10:40.720 already, you know, she's a big breastfeeding 00:10:40.720 --> 00:10:43.000 supporter, but she also wants to be a doula. 00:10:43.019 --> 00:10:44.519 So I have told her about, you know, you should, 00:10:44.559 --> 00:10:46.440 but that's, I mean, Melba, but that's a different 00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:53.480 conversation. She lives in Raleigh too, but that's 00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:57.039 where she lives. But, but no, I just, I just 00:10:57.039 --> 00:10:59.340 talk. I just talk a lot. I think that's what 00:10:59.340 --> 00:11:02.740 it, at the end of the day, it works. but I didn't 00:11:02.740 --> 00:11:05.700 have everybody on board. Like my mom had passed 00:11:05.700 --> 00:11:08.019 away. Well, my mom was a supporter with my son 00:11:08.019 --> 00:11:09.779 and with my first daughter when I was a teen 00:11:09.779 --> 00:11:13.860 mom. But when my daughter was born, my mom had 00:11:13.860 --> 00:11:16.539 passed away already like the year before. So 00:11:16.539 --> 00:11:19.580 all I had really was my husband's mother, but 00:11:19.580 --> 00:11:24.139 she was the type to, well, they're too old to 00:11:24.139 --> 00:11:26.320 be breastfeeding. Even after six months, it was 00:11:26.320 --> 00:11:29.580 like, well, they were like, are you? you know 00:11:29.580 --> 00:11:32.419 so some people you just can't and that does and 00:11:32.419 --> 00:11:35.580 that wasn't anything to do with like uh black 00:11:35.580 --> 00:11:38.840 women like she's a white woman so that as far 00:11:38.840 --> 00:11:41.539 as support and just culture when it comes to 00:11:41.539 --> 00:11:44.879 breastfeeding in the south it's really or even 00:11:44.879 --> 00:11:46.940 in rural areas in the south is what i'll say 00:11:46.940 --> 00:11:51.580 it's across the board so i just say i think the 00:11:51.580 --> 00:11:54.480 best thing is to have support where you can find 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:57.100 the best support whether it's a peer counselor 00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:03.279 or a doula or just or the right friend group 00:12:03.279 --> 00:12:06.159 because you can't always rely you know on your 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:08.700 husband or or the family but if you have a good 00:12:08.700 --> 00:12:11.899 support system it really gives you so much more 00:12:11.899 --> 00:12:15.259 confidence and then not only you'll be confident 00:12:15.259 --> 00:12:18.360 and you know yourself You'll also be teaching 00:12:18.360 --> 00:12:20.320 people at the same time. Yeah, you're providing 00:12:20.320 --> 00:12:23.659 education, support and helping other people on 00:12:23.659 --> 00:12:25.940 their pathway. And I think that that's, you know, 00:12:25.940 --> 00:12:28.259 reflects directly back to, like you said, what 00:12:28.259 --> 00:12:31.019 kind of keeps you motivated to do this type of 00:12:31.019 --> 00:12:34.620 work and why you're so invested in these things 00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:36.679 and why you're so passionate about it. You know, 00:12:36.679 --> 00:12:39.320 if you're enjoying the show as much as we love 00:12:39.320 --> 00:12:42.960 creating it, consider showing your support by 00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:46.840 buying us a cup of coffee. Visit. buymeacoffee 00:12:46.840 --> 00:12:53.299 .com slash Nyesha Frey O. That's buymeacoffee 00:12:53.299 --> 00:13:00.240 .com forward slash Nyesha Frey O. All one word. 00:13:00.299 --> 00:13:05.000 Each cup is just $5 and every single one helps 00:13:05.000 --> 00:13:08.139 us continue to produce, develop, and sustain 00:13:08.139 --> 00:13:11.340 the high quality content you've come to expect 00:13:11.340 --> 00:13:14.659 from questions you didn't ask. Thank you. for 00:13:14.659 --> 00:13:17.279 your continued support. And let's keep the conversation 00:13:17.279 --> 00:13:21.740 going. And I also appreciate the fact that not 00:13:21.740 --> 00:13:26.120 all women are supportive. Sometimes you get your 00:13:26.120 --> 00:13:29.799 support from a male in your life, right? That's 00:13:29.799 --> 00:13:33.059 very true because my mother -in -law was not 00:13:33.059 --> 00:13:36.840 supportive. My husband was very supportive. But 00:13:36.840 --> 00:13:41.379 what I also learned is with working, it was rare, 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:45.179 but there were... There was enough times for 00:13:45.179 --> 00:13:48.220 me to be like, this could be an issue. Husbands 00:13:48.220 --> 00:13:51.220 cannot be supportive because for the strangest 00:13:51.220 --> 00:13:55.740 reason, they are jealous. They don't want their 00:13:55.740 --> 00:14:01.059 wife to breastfeed. They didn't support it from 00:14:01.059 --> 00:14:05.759 before the baby was born. It's just crazy. It's 00:14:05.759 --> 00:14:08.019 strange. And I kind of want to dive into that. 00:14:08.240 --> 00:14:11.320 I just want to look into that. What is the mentality 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:14.029 going on there? It was strange to the men is 00:14:14.029 --> 00:14:16.549 how it was portrayed to me. Like my husband doesn't 00:14:16.549 --> 00:14:19.389 want me to do that. He thinks it's weird, you 00:14:19.389 --> 00:14:22.029 know, stuff like that. And I couldn't believe 00:14:22.029 --> 00:14:24.049 it when I heard it. I think that that's really 00:14:24.049 --> 00:14:26.649 important to talk about too, is that there are 00:14:26.649 --> 00:14:31.710 a lot of myths, misconceptions. There are people 00:14:31.710 --> 00:14:38.990 who confuse a woman's body as being solely a 00:14:38.990 --> 00:14:43.940 sexual instrument. as opposed to a conduit of 00:14:43.940 --> 00:14:49.759 life that is hers, right? And that, you know, 00:14:49.759 --> 00:14:52.360 sometimes in relationships, the way that our 00:14:52.360 --> 00:14:57.840 culture and our society has defined what a relationship 00:14:57.840 --> 00:15:01.980 is, especially in a heterosexual dynamic, that 00:15:01.980 --> 00:15:07.799 somehow there is a man's ownership of a woman's 00:15:07.799 --> 00:15:12.009 body. And you're right. We talk about postpartum 00:15:12.009 --> 00:15:14.870 for women, but men go through some things too 00:15:14.870 --> 00:15:18.450 where they realize that, yeah, you got to share 00:15:18.450 --> 00:15:22.409 and you got to wait your turn. And now the priority 00:15:22.409 --> 00:15:25.629 in terms of the woman's body is not his sexual 00:15:25.629 --> 00:15:28.450 pleasure, but the priority in terms of the woman's 00:15:28.450 --> 00:15:34.269 body is the health and welfare of her child and 00:15:34.269 --> 00:15:38.669 the baby, whether the baby is... inside of her 00:15:38.669 --> 00:15:41.889 body or now has been born and she's now holding 00:15:41.889 --> 00:15:44.909 the baby on her lap and breastfeeding. I do think 00:15:44.909 --> 00:15:48.110 that there's also some interesting aspects of 00:15:48.110 --> 00:15:51.950 people's perceptions of breastfeeding in terms 00:15:51.950 --> 00:15:54.889 of how long and this and that because of, and 00:15:54.889 --> 00:15:56.669 I did look it up, you know, I'll be Googling 00:15:56.669 --> 00:16:00.289 the prolactin and oxytocin effect that women 00:16:00.289 --> 00:16:05.169 have and the bonding that happens uniquely between 00:16:05.169 --> 00:16:08.809 the mother and the child. Yeah, the bonding is, 00:16:09.029 --> 00:16:15.090 it's beautiful. And at the same time, some people 00:16:15.090 --> 00:16:17.750 experience it and they say things like it's painful 00:16:17.750 --> 00:16:22.029 or it's not comfortable for me or I don't get 00:16:22.029 --> 00:16:24.809 that feeling. You know, I had good friends of 00:16:24.809 --> 00:16:28.250 mine who did have beautiful, wonderful bonding. 00:16:28.590 --> 00:16:33.350 They experienced that. kind of relaxed euphoria. 00:16:33.789 --> 00:16:38.029 And it was very easy for them to, you know, continue 00:16:38.029 --> 00:16:41.210 to breastfeed and see the benefits of it, not 00:16:41.210 --> 00:16:43.950 only in their child's health and wellbeing, but 00:16:43.950 --> 00:16:47.350 in their own mental health. And so for me, I 00:16:47.350 --> 00:16:49.269 was kind of sad that I didn't get to have that 00:16:49.269 --> 00:16:51.269 particular experience, but I know that I bonded 00:16:51.269 --> 00:16:53.529 with my child in other ways. And I think that 00:16:53.529 --> 00:16:56.090 that's really important for me to bring up in 00:16:56.090 --> 00:17:00.149 this discussion because mothers and mothering, 00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:06.240 And parental bonding, whether it's between a 00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:09.839 mom and her child, where the mom is having challenges 00:17:09.839 --> 00:17:12.220 with breastfeeding or isn't able to breastfeed, 00:17:12.279 --> 00:17:14.920 or the father who's not equipped to breastfeed 00:17:14.920 --> 00:17:17.779 and wants to bond uniquely with their child now 00:17:17.779 --> 00:17:20.920 that the child is finally. outside of the woman's 00:17:20.920 --> 00:17:24.819 body and he can embrace the child and bond with 00:17:24.819 --> 00:17:26.740 the child. So there's a lot of that going on 00:17:26.740 --> 00:17:29.339 too. Melba, did you have anything you wanted 00:17:29.339 --> 00:17:31.440 to add or Jessica before we move on to the next 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:37.519 topic? No, but I definitely understand what Jessica 00:17:37.519 --> 00:17:40.660 was saying that some dads don't, they look at 00:17:40.660 --> 00:17:44.740 the mom's breast differently when they start 00:17:44.740 --> 00:17:47.880 breastfeeding. And like she said, I think that's 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:52.460 where... a lot of the education and as a doula 00:17:52.460 --> 00:17:56.660 that's something that we discuss during um when 00:17:56.660 --> 00:18:01.799 we see our clients initially and for like you 00:18:01.799 --> 00:18:04.539 know birth and plans and postpartum plan is something 00:18:04.539 --> 00:18:07.480 that we discuss how you want to feed your baby 00:18:07.480 --> 00:18:12.039 and how dad looks at breastfeeding and to help 00:18:13.539 --> 00:18:16.559 get rid of some of that. I don't know what the 00:18:16.559 --> 00:18:21.359 right word is, but get rid of some of those negative 00:18:21.359 --> 00:18:24.880 thoughts when it comes to breast and or chest 00:18:24.880 --> 00:18:28.599 feeding. It's funny you say that. And I'm not 00:18:28.599 --> 00:18:33.519 this, my husband, he, he, he never, he just always 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:36.220 seemed to admire me like breastfeeding. Like, 00:18:36.279 --> 00:18:39.019 you know, he just would like, I don't know. And 00:18:39.019 --> 00:18:42.400 not in a weird way. But he just was so supportive. 00:18:42.599 --> 00:18:45.240 And out of all the things that pissed me off 00:18:45.240 --> 00:18:50.259 about this man, that just meant a lot to me. 00:18:50.579 --> 00:18:53.480 And he was very supportive in my birth plan. 00:18:53.799 --> 00:18:56.839 You know, besides the fact, I mean, I understand 00:18:56.839 --> 00:19:00.359 he fell asleep. I mean, he... It's not the first 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:02.200 time he fell asleep in a weird situation. He 00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:05.259 literally fell asleep while I was talking to 00:19:05.259 --> 00:19:07.140 him one time. But I can talk. Y 'all know I can 00:19:07.140 --> 00:19:10.259 talk. Yes, Jessica. And I was probably talking 00:19:10.259 --> 00:19:13.420 during labor, too. So I probably gave him a story 00:19:13.420 --> 00:19:15.680 and he just went to sleep. But no, he was really 00:19:15.680 --> 00:19:20.519 supportive. But I heard a couple of moms, too. 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:24.440 It was strange for them. Not because it hurt 00:19:24.440 --> 00:19:27.079 or anything. They felt uncomfortable nursing 00:19:27.079 --> 00:19:30.519 a baby. They just did not feel comfortable with 00:19:30.519 --> 00:19:34.059 it. And it was strange to me to hear that. But 00:19:34.059 --> 00:19:36.319 one thing I did learn as a peer counselor is 00:19:36.319 --> 00:19:39.759 to not be judgmental, to be open -minded because 00:19:39.759 --> 00:19:46.180 again, I did not know hardly anything about the 00:19:46.180 --> 00:19:48.559 life of breastfeeding beyond the fact that I 00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.240 did it. It was easy, no issues. So I just, I'm 00:19:52.240 --> 00:19:54.460 really grateful for that one year that I worked 00:19:54.460 --> 00:19:58.079 there because That's why I wanted to become a 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:02.119 counselor because there's just so many ways to 00:20:02.119 --> 00:20:04.819 like support a woman. Oh, and another thing too, 00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:06.259 while we're talking about breastfeeding real 00:20:06.259 --> 00:20:08.940 quick, do y 'all remember when the formula shortage 00:20:08.940 --> 00:20:17.599 was? Did you ever hear anything about more support, 00:20:17.660 --> 00:20:20.539 more encouragement, more education about breastfeeding 00:20:20.539 --> 00:20:23.619 ever? It's like, if that, if that right there 00:20:23.619 --> 00:20:26.309 doesn't show you that. There needs to be more 00:20:26.309 --> 00:20:28.630 support to encourage, you know, for moms to breastfeed. 00:20:28.730 --> 00:20:31.069 And I didn't even touch on this. And we might 00:20:31.069 --> 00:20:33.970 can have a whole other like podcast about this, 00:20:34.029 --> 00:20:39.589 Naisha, but just the fact of not support in the 00:20:39.589 --> 00:20:41.910 workplace and moms not knowing their rights when 00:20:41.910 --> 00:20:44.769 they go back to work for pumping. Like that's 00:20:44.769 --> 00:20:48.430 a whole nother subject. Yeah. Well, you know 00:20:48.430 --> 00:20:50.309 what? I don't know if it is a whole nother subject 00:20:50.309 --> 00:20:52.869 because one of the next questions that I was 00:20:52.869 --> 00:20:57.599 going to ask. What are some of the contributing 00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:02.660 factors in our society and our healthcare system 00:21:02.660 --> 00:21:08.640 that contributes to some of the, and I'll say 00:21:08.640 --> 00:21:12.019 morbidity. So morbidity is different than mortality. 00:21:12.019 --> 00:21:16.980 So mortality is the ultimate, right? It is counting 00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:24.119 or accounting for people who die. Morbidity is 00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.079 different because it's accounting for the things 00:21:27.079 --> 00:21:31.779 that might challenge someone's mortality, their 00:21:31.779 --> 00:21:35.940 well -being, their health, symptoms that can 00:21:35.940 --> 00:21:39.299 challenge their mortality, right? So we're thinking 00:21:39.299 --> 00:21:42.980 about what are the things that challenge the 00:21:42.980 --> 00:21:48.339 health and well -being of birthing people, right? 00:21:48.779 --> 00:21:53.180 What are some of the society like... things that 00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:55.460 get in the way of that because we have these 00:21:55.460 --> 00:22:00.299 crazy maternal and infant mortality issues. And 00:22:00.299 --> 00:22:02.559 it's not just about whether or not you got a 00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.819 doula. It's not just about whether or not you 00:22:05.819 --> 00:22:08.740 are able to breastfeed. But as you mentioned, 00:22:08.819 --> 00:22:13.039 Jessica, some of it might be related to some 00:22:13.039 --> 00:22:17.039 of the policies that we have in our society and 00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:21.359 in our culture that make it difficult. for women 00:22:21.359 --> 00:22:26.839 and particularly Black women to be able to live, 00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:31.880 thrive, survive, and for their infants within 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:34.579 that first year, especially, to live and thrive. 00:22:34.720 --> 00:22:36.960 If you could speak on, Jessica, because you got 00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:40.259 to start it. I'm going to pull Melba and our 00:22:40.259 --> 00:22:46.079 guest, Lena, baby Melba, back into the conversation 00:22:46.079 --> 00:22:48.539 to talk about some of the things that you see 00:22:48.539 --> 00:22:54.259 in society. Well, number one, six weeks to go 00:22:54.259 --> 00:22:56.039 back to work. Like if your job says you have 00:22:56.039 --> 00:22:59.480 six weeks, that is not long enough for a mom 00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:05.079 to recover physically, mentally, and to even 00:23:05.079 --> 00:23:07.299 get into a great breastfeeding routine with her 00:23:07.299 --> 00:23:11.539 baby. Six weeks. That's ridiculous. Like I hate 00:23:11.539 --> 00:23:14.180 jobs that require moms to go back to work after 00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:17.259 six weeks. That is, you're not even ready to 00:23:17.259 --> 00:23:20.420 have sex at six weeks yet. That's a whole other 00:23:20.420 --> 00:23:22.019 subject, though, because I wanted to talk about 00:23:22.019 --> 00:23:26.380 that, about educating moms. Please wait the adequate 00:23:26.380 --> 00:23:28.460 amount of time before you dive back in there 00:23:28.460 --> 00:23:33.099 because what are you doing? I do know what you're 00:23:33.099 --> 00:23:38.359 talking about. I hear stories of young moms and 00:23:38.359 --> 00:23:42.799 they're going back in at four weeks. I can't 00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:46.500 believe it. But that's another thing. there needs 00:23:46.500 --> 00:23:49.960 to be better pay or support from the jobs for 00:23:49.960 --> 00:23:55.359 maternity leave. And I cannot believe that a 00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:58.259 woman can have a baby and be released from the 00:23:58.259 --> 00:24:03.559 hospital within 48 hours. That blows my mind. 00:24:05.019 --> 00:24:07.180 Well, so some people would say they'd rather 00:24:07.180 --> 00:24:10.720 be at home. I just feel like, yeah, but you know 00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:14.119 what I've seen from working where I worked? Tell 00:24:14.119 --> 00:24:16.940 us. This wasn't even related to breastfeeding. 00:24:17.000 --> 00:24:20.720 When I had women or girl women, they're women 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:24.559 on my breastfeeding program. We had, you know, 00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:26.819 we had a good communication. You know, they have 00:24:26.819 --> 00:24:29.420 my cell phone because I was part time. So they 00:24:29.420 --> 00:24:34.299 could contact me after hours, but they would 00:24:34.299 --> 00:24:37.940 come home. And this one girl, for example, she 00:24:37.940 --> 00:24:41.160 it was because of high blood pressure. So she 00:24:41.160 --> 00:24:44.339 was released within like. 48 hours, maybe less. 00:24:44.779 --> 00:24:48.180 But she was having these feelings. And I was 00:24:48.180 --> 00:24:51.779 like, honestly, I'm not allowed to help you, 00:24:51.859 --> 00:24:55.799 but just go to the ER, please. But she was dealing 00:24:55.799 --> 00:24:59.559 with, I don't know if it's preeclampsia or whatever 00:24:59.559 --> 00:25:03.500 it is. Preeclampsia. Even though it's like after 00:25:03.500 --> 00:25:08.720 the preeclampsia. But there's been other situations 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:12.140 where moms are going home. And they're not getting 00:25:12.140 --> 00:25:14.579 the, you know, they're not being looked after. 00:25:14.680 --> 00:25:18.400 Like you having a baby is a big deal. Like it's 00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:22.279 hard to, especially like at risk people like 00:25:22.279 --> 00:25:25.460 this girl was on the heavier side. And I think 00:25:25.460 --> 00:25:27.619 the other situations there was, there was something 00:25:27.619 --> 00:25:30.920 like, I think one girl had diabetes and, you 00:25:30.920 --> 00:25:33.119 know, you can't be releasing people, you know, 00:25:33.119 --> 00:25:35.319 from the hospital that quick, not after having 00:25:35.319 --> 00:25:38.650 a baby, unless they're like super healthy. But 00:25:38.650 --> 00:25:41.089 there needs to at least be some follow up care 00:25:41.089 --> 00:25:45.869 or something. So I hear you. I mean, I remember 00:25:45.869 --> 00:25:48.950 when my daughter was six weeks old and I looked 00:25:48.950 --> 00:25:51.430 at her and I was like, how did my mother leave 00:25:51.430 --> 00:25:55.589 me when she had me? And she had to go back to 00:25:55.589 --> 00:25:59.230 work because this is little, little micro. And 00:25:59.230 --> 00:26:02.640 my daughter was full term, full term. Good weight, 00:26:02.759 --> 00:26:05.400 good length, all that other good stuff. But I 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:08.220 was just like, I can't believe I couldn't, I 00:26:08.220 --> 00:26:11.299 couldn't, I was financially struggling, but I 00:26:11.299 --> 00:26:15.779 was privileged in that I had time to be with 00:26:15.779 --> 00:26:19.400 my child. And then when it got to two months 00:26:19.400 --> 00:26:21.720 and I looked at my baby, I said, I still ain't 00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:24.940 ready. I mean, I didn't leave. I didn't go back 00:26:24.940 --> 00:26:27.720 to work on a part -time basis until she was six 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:30.089 months old. or maybe a little older than that. 00:26:30.109 --> 00:26:32.609 But, you know, and that had to do with, right, 00:26:32.769 --> 00:26:35.269 because we are talking about this high risk, 00:26:35.549 --> 00:26:39.529 right? So I was pregnant with her when I was 00:26:39.529 --> 00:26:43.930 35. By the time she was born, I was 36. She had 00:26:43.930 --> 00:26:48.769 already been diagnosed pre -labor with genetic 00:26:48.769 --> 00:26:51.650 disorder down syndrome. And then she had also 00:26:51.650 --> 00:26:54.049 been diagnosed with a congenital heart defect, 00:26:54.250 --> 00:26:59.440 right? And so she had a lot of growing and healing 00:26:59.440 --> 00:27:04.019 and intervening to do but even with that i was 00:27:04.019 --> 00:27:08.480 just like my mind was blown Now, she's my one 00:27:08.480 --> 00:27:10.759 and only baby. And I know that there's that commercial 00:27:10.759 --> 00:27:13.039 that everybody agrees with that says your first 00:27:13.039 --> 00:27:15.900 baby, you want to put bubble wrap around them. 00:27:15.940 --> 00:27:18.440 And then the next baby, you roll them down the 00:27:18.440 --> 00:27:20.299 hall like a bowling ball. Right. You don't even 00:27:20.299 --> 00:27:22.740 care to say not to say that you don't love them, 00:27:22.779 --> 00:27:25.099 but you're just not as hyper vigilant. Right. 00:27:25.180 --> 00:27:27.160 As you were with your first baby. So I never 00:27:27.160 --> 00:27:29.259 had that second baby. So all I remember is the 00:27:29.259 --> 00:27:31.619 first one and being just hyper, hyper vigilant. 00:27:32.299 --> 00:27:34.480 And I agree with you. I think that it's too short. 00:27:34.579 --> 00:27:36.740 I think that it's way too short. And I think 00:27:36.740 --> 00:27:39.420 that in a lot of ways, it's inhumane to have 00:27:39.420 --> 00:27:42.559 to rush back to work and being forced because 00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.079 you have no choice, right? The other alternative 00:27:45.079 --> 00:27:47.700 is that you're homeless, that you lose your health 00:27:47.700 --> 00:27:49.900 insurance, that, you know, all the rest, you 00:27:49.900 --> 00:27:51.519 lose your car and your transportation because 00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:53.480 you can't pay for those things without working. 00:27:53.849 --> 00:27:58.349 These are structures and systems in our society 00:27:58.349 --> 00:28:01.329 that force people to make decisions that are 00:28:01.329 --> 00:28:05.650 not in their own best interest. So Melba, I'm 00:28:05.650 --> 00:28:09.190 going to turn to you and Lena. What are some 00:28:09.190 --> 00:28:15.369 of the things that you see in our society and 00:28:15.369 --> 00:28:20.410 our culture, systems, healthcare system, so on? 00:28:21.160 --> 00:28:26.440 that you think contribute to some of the maternal 00:28:26.440 --> 00:28:30.720 mortality and infant mortality challenges, especially 00:28:30.720 --> 00:28:32.819 if they're the ones that really kind of get your 00:28:32.819 --> 00:28:36.819 goat. I want to talk about that. So just to piggyback 00:28:36.819 --> 00:28:39.660 a little bit to what Jessica said in regards 00:28:39.660 --> 00:28:43.119 to moms getting released out of the hospital 00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:49.660 so soon, I feel like because of that, that's 00:28:49.660 --> 00:28:56.480 where doulas again come into play. So, you know, 00:28:56.480 --> 00:28:58.920 like for instance, the two incidents, Jessica 00:28:58.920 --> 00:29:02.619 said one mom, blood pressure was high or she 00:29:02.619 --> 00:29:06.519 wasn't feeling a certain type of way. You know, 00:29:06.519 --> 00:29:09.039 for the most part, if we have doula clients, 00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:13.680 we'd typically follow up with them within 48 00:29:13.680 --> 00:29:17.299 to 72 hours, even if it's just a phone call. 00:29:17.839 --> 00:29:20.660 If you can't actually go to their house physically, 00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:24.420 if it's a phone call or FaceTime or Google me 00:29:24.420 --> 00:29:29.019 or Zoom or something, we try to make contact 00:29:29.019 --> 00:29:33.420 with them, you know, within that first week when 00:29:33.420 --> 00:29:35.619 they come out of the hospital, just to make sure 00:29:35.619 --> 00:29:39.700 things are going okay. One of the things like 00:29:39.700 --> 00:29:45.039 Jessica said with that is a lot of times the 00:29:45.039 --> 00:29:49.539 doctors will say, Oh, you're feeling that way 00:29:49.539 --> 00:29:52.519 because you're pregnant. That's normal in pregnancy. 00:29:52.880 --> 00:29:56.559 That's typical. That's going to happen. I think 00:29:56.559 --> 00:30:01.900 everything is not normal to pregnancy. Or you 00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:04.539 can't just chop everything up to it's happening 00:30:04.539 --> 00:30:08.079 because you're pregnant. Sometimes look into 00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:11.019 it to make sure there is not a real underlying 00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:17.599 issue going on that's causing this problem. That's 00:30:17.599 --> 00:30:21.900 where some of the mortality rates with African 00:30:21.900 --> 00:30:24.500 -American moms go up at. They feel like we can 00:30:24.500 --> 00:30:28.440 endure more pain than our counterparts. We can 00:30:28.440 --> 00:30:33.339 endure more everything pretty much than our counterparts. 00:30:34.380 --> 00:30:38.660 So that's where a lot of it comes from. And some 00:30:38.660 --> 00:30:42.099 of the disparities that people may have even 00:30:42.099 --> 00:30:46.750 prior to getting pregnant will. come into play 00:30:46.750 --> 00:30:54.529 as well if they're homeless before or not have 00:30:54.529 --> 00:30:57.809 a stable home or stable food prior to pregnancy 00:30:57.809 --> 00:31:01.109 then they get pregnant then you got to worry 00:31:01.109 --> 00:31:04.130 about what's going to happen after this baby 00:31:04.130 --> 00:31:07.690 when this baby come you got to think about the 00:31:07.690 --> 00:31:10.710 mental health is mom okay is she going to leave 00:31:10.710 --> 00:31:14.259 this baby somewhere is she going to take her 00:31:14.259 --> 00:31:17.099 life the baby life it's like a real big snowball 00:31:17.099 --> 00:31:20.539 effect when those things come into play and a 00:31:20.539 --> 00:31:23.859 lot of times i'm not going to say all providers 00:31:23.859 --> 00:31:27.099 but a lot of providers they don't look into that 00:31:27.099 --> 00:31:30.720 aspect of where are you at like if you go to 00:31:30.720 --> 00:31:33.099 the health department you just go to the health 00:31:33.099 --> 00:31:35.339 department they're not thinking about where you 00:31:35.339 --> 00:31:38.569 live in Or where are you going to get your next 00:31:38.569 --> 00:31:42.130 meal from? And so that's where, you know, doulas 00:31:42.130 --> 00:31:44.849 can help out at because a lot of times, again, 00:31:44.970 --> 00:31:48.009 we build this relationship, a trust and relationship 00:31:48.009 --> 00:31:51.730 with these clients to help them get to a place 00:31:51.730 --> 00:31:53.609 where they feel like they're going to be okay 00:31:53.609 --> 00:31:57.130 when they have their babies. And it's really 00:31:57.130 --> 00:32:01.109 like systematic racism, pretty much. If you think 00:32:01.109 --> 00:32:06.730 about a lot of times. Why is this a big issue 00:32:06.730 --> 00:32:12.349 now when it comes to African -Americans and their 00:32:12.349 --> 00:32:15.650 maternal mortality or infant mortality? Why is 00:32:15.650 --> 00:32:19.569 it a huge issue now? Why do we think? Because 00:32:19.569 --> 00:32:23.710 there's more people that's coming out that are, 00:32:23.869 --> 00:32:27.329 they have more money than the typical person 00:32:27.329 --> 00:32:31.670 that are having issues postpartum. The Serena 00:32:31.670 --> 00:32:34.559 effect. You got the Serena Williams. Beyonce 00:32:34.559 --> 00:32:40.559 had an issue during her pregnancy. And I can't 00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:44.200 remember which one of the judges lost daughter 00:32:44.200 --> 00:32:46.579 or daughter -in -law lost their lives during 00:32:46.579 --> 00:32:51.180 or after the baby was born. So it's like now 00:32:51.180 --> 00:32:53.619 it's like, oh, this is not just happened to regular 00:32:53.619 --> 00:32:56.660 common people. We're having issues with people 00:32:56.660 --> 00:32:59.079 that have money right now. Why do people that 00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:03.740 have money is having issues? So that's a lot 00:33:03.740 --> 00:33:08.960 of it. I hope that makes sense. I feel like Jessica 00:33:08.960 --> 00:33:11.380 be saying like, I feel like I'm rambling, but 00:33:11.380 --> 00:33:14.359 you know. You're not, you're not. I still feel 00:33:14.359 --> 00:33:17.420 like I'm rambling way more than you. But no, 00:33:17.640 --> 00:33:22.279 I love your perspective. I love that you're a 00:33:22.279 --> 00:33:25.369 doula. I think that's so great. I wish. i wish 00:33:25.369 --> 00:33:27.930 i don't even think i knew about doulas when i 00:33:27.930 --> 00:33:30.390 was pregnant with both kids well when i say both 00:33:30.390 --> 00:33:33.970 like the last two kids and i wish that i could 00:33:33.970 --> 00:33:35.930 go back in time and i would hire you so fast 00:33:35.930 --> 00:33:40.289 look i would hire somebody too like i had three 00:33:40.289 --> 00:33:43.890 kids and didn't know anything about like doulas 00:33:43.890 --> 00:33:48.380 and for instance right here I'm close to Greenville. 00:33:48.460 --> 00:33:51.380 At Vidant, I didn't even know that they had a 00:33:51.380 --> 00:33:55.059 volunteer doula program. I'm like, y 'all have 00:33:55.059 --> 00:33:58.000 volunteer doulas? Say what? Like, how did I not 00:33:58.000 --> 00:34:00.640 know? And if you don't know, you don't know to 00:34:00.640 --> 00:34:03.940 ask, hey, is there a support person here that 00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:07.039 can help me out through this? Like, you don't 00:34:07.039 --> 00:34:11.360 know to ask for things like that, you know? Thank 00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:14.219 you for joining us on Questions You Didn't Ask 00:34:14.219 --> 00:34:18.000 with me, Naisha Frey, and my guests, Melba Perry 00:34:18.000 --> 00:34:21.960 and Jessica Burris. Tune in next week as we continue 00:34:21.960 --> 00:34:25.840 our series, From Birth to Beyond, unveiling challenges 00:34:25.840 --> 00:34:27.980 of maternal and infant health.