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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.

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Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.

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Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.

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Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Deb.

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And I'm Corey.

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And we are going to welcome you to episode number 63 of Dying to be Found.

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Thanks so much for choosing this podcast.

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My son Corey is here to help me out today,

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which is always, in my opinion, enlightening because he gives a great perspective from a law enforcement's point of view.

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Be sure to check out our episodes where I get together with other family members as well.

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But for today, Corey, does anyone that you know call you a podcaster now?

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No, I haven't told anyone because I'm too embarrassed because I hate my own voice.

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You're embarrassed to be a podcaster because you hate your voice?

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I'm sure I'll say something dumb or every time I hear my voice on a recording, I despise it.

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Actually, I'm getting some good feedback on you and they think you're actually quite intelligent.

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So you've got some really good feedback, but you're a real podcaster now.

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Don't be embarrassed.

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We need the listeners.

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So get out there and tell people.

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I mean, people know I have told people that you have a podcast.

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I've told several people that you have a true crime podcast.

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You've told people that I have a podcast, but now you have a podcast.

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I don't have a podcast.

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I participate in a podcast every once in a while.

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I'm going to come by and I'm going to bring you stickers.

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Like my summer break is coming up.

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So I'm going to just head your way, show up at your work, and I'm going to pass out stickers.

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Yeah.

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I mean, heck, I'll put them on my water bottle and stuff because every gun company and whatnot

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that I buy from gives out stickers.

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So I just, I have too many.

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I started putting them on my chest freezer because I have so many stickers.

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I don't know what to do with.

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Oh goodness.

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What else is going on?

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Anything new?

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We have not talked in a while.

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So I know you've been really busy, but you want to tell us about anything before we get into our story?

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Yeah.

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Work's been crazy.

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We had a hostage situation the other day.

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Don't be telling me too many stories that are going to get me to worry.

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I don't.

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Yeah.

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I don't tell you a lot of things.

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No, I don't tell you most of the stuff.

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Oh, well, speaking of which we're going to get into a pretty heavy case today.

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We're talking about the Virginia Tech massacre that took place back in 2007.

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Before we started recording today, Corey, we had talked a little bit about how many school

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shootings were going on over time.

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What was it that you said?

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There weren't too many up until recently.

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Columbine was really the big one that started it.

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Yeah.

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They didn't really start until becoming mainstream, I guess, is a lack of a better term.

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I'd say 2013, 14.

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Yeah.

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There was definitely a spike, Corey, between I would say, oh gosh, anytime after 2010.

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I mean, historically, mass shootings in schools go back as far as the mid 1800s,

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but you're only talking about a handful.

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And one is too many, but we're talking about probably less than 10 in a year span.

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Beginning in 1970, there definitely was a spike because on an annual basis,

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it looked like there were 80 shooting.

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Actually, no, in a decade's time span, it was probably about 80 shootings in the 1970s.

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And then believe it or not, this is crazy, Corey.

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After 2000, there have been 422 incidents where there have been school shootings,

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whether it be in an elementary school, a high school, or even universities.

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But there's definitely a big spike after 2010 because between 2000 and 2009,

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there were only 80 incidents.

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Between 2010 and 2019, there were 210 incidents.

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So we're already at 132 incidents in the United States or since 2020.

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So it's really not getting any better.

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I mean, other than, you know, I know that we're really addressing mental health these days,

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but do you have any insights from a law enforcement perspective

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on how many shootings are occurring in the United States?

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I 100% think it's a mental health issue.

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I mean, the guns have always been here, realistically,

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but people's mentality has definitely started to shift.

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I mean, I'm noticing it within our county ourselves,

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but it's definitely a mental health issue.

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I think.

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Right.

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Well, today we're talking about the Virginia Tech Massacre,

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where unfortunately 32 people died in a span of somewhere around three and a half hours

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on April 16th, 2007.

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I'm going to really try to stick to the facts and be as respectful as I can

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because one thing, Corey, that I've learned since beginning Dine to Be Found is that

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I completely have to give victims a name and a voice.

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Now there are 32 victims.

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So for time purposes, I probably won't be able to name all of those off,

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but I will definitely make sure that we put those into the show notes

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because there are a lot of different not-for-profits or even annual events

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that always commemorate the victims here.

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So just bear with me.

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Yeah, that's a lot of victims and that's a very long time for an active shooter to be going on.

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I mean, that one in Nashville, I mean, they did a spectacular job.

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From the point that the first officer arrived on scene,

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there was three minutes from that point to the point where the shooter was put down.

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Wow.

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I mean, that's incredible.

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Three minutes.

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It's like 316 or something like that, but that's incredible.

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They did a phenomenal job.

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Yes.

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But three and a half hours is insane.

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Yeah, absolutely, especially because, I mean, some of the times it was still relatively new.

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I mean, we're just talking about the first part of the millennium.

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So mental health issues weren't really being addressed at the time.

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It's just crazy how this all went down.

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So what I'm going to do is I'm going to actually give you a timeline

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of how everything started and basically how it ended up.

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At 715 in the morning, shots rang out across the Virginia Polytechnic Institute

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and State University campus in Blacksburg, Virginia.

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Now, we know this today, Corey, as Virginia Tech.

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One female freshman and a male resident inside the West Ambler Johnston Hall dormitory

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on the Virginia Tech campus had just been killed by Sung Wee Cho,

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a 23-year-old senior and English major who was attending the university.

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Pretty early for him to be getting up in the morning to do this.

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Yeah, he had his clock set, that's for sure.

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Emily Hilscher had just been dropped off at her dorm at 7.02 a.m.

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according to her access card where she had swiped to get into the building.

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Ryan Clark was a resident assistant in the dorm.

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And basically, Corey, if you don't know what a resident assistant is,

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it's basically the head resident on a hall

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that's kind of in charge of all the residents there.

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They do answer to the university as far as the goings on in the building

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and things like that.

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And they usually have one resident assistant per floor or at least per wing.

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So Ryan Clark was the resident assistant there.

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And he had heard some gunshots at that 7 o'clock hour.

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So when he ran out into the hall to investigate, unfortunately, Corey, he was killed.

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So this is for the listeners.

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If you hear gunshots and if you're not armed, don't investigate that.

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Just hunker down, call 911 immediately.

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If you're armed, in my opinion, the right thing to do is go towards the gun front.

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Go towards the gunfire and eliminate that issue.

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But there are other alternatives such as bunkering down.

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If you've got other people in there and you can always hold security.

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But then you're just protecting the people within the room and others might be harmed.

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But if you're not armed, don't investigate.

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Just hunker down, lock the doors, call 911.

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Yeah, and be quiet.

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Be quiet.

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Yeah, don't make a noise.

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Between 720 and 725, Cho used his access card to return to his own dorm room to change clothes.

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While he was there, Corey, he deleted emails and his university account.

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Plus, he removed his computer hard drive before heading out onto the campus.

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So all while these gunshots were being reported, the police arrived to find Emily and Ryan deceased.

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During this time frame, Cho also accesses his Virginia Tech account and erases all the files.

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So he was in a different building at this point in time and all the activity is going on at the dorm

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where the two people had just been shot.

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He's already out of sight.

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Now, by 940 a.m., Cho made his way over to Norris Hall,

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which is the building that held engineering science and mechanics courses.

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Oh, goodness, Corey.

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Fair warning, classes were in session.

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Cho carried a 22 caliber handgun that he had purchased online on February 9th.

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And he had a 9 millimeter handgun that he had just purchased in March.

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All this occurred again in April.

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So obviously he had a plan from the get go.

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He made sure all the serial numbers were also filed down before he began his shooting spree.

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OK, I'm surprised he used just pistols, really.

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I mean, actually, he had some knives on him as well.

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He carried two knives, but he also had plenty of ammunition

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because he carried 400 rounds with him as he made his way through the campus.

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That's a lot of ammunition.

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It's a good bit, especially with, yeah, with pistols.

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That's definitely a lot of ammo.

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But it also 22.

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I'm sure most of it was 22 caliber because they're tiny, tiny rounds.

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So you can you can carry a box of them.

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That's probably three by four inches that'll hold like 100 rounds in it.

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Yeah, it's about the size of a box that you would have staples in.

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Well, as he arrived at Norris Hall, Cho proceeded to chain and lock

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many of the doors before making his way to the second floor.

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And I will say this.

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Oh, gosh, Corey, I remember when this was on the news

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and that was just one of the most astounding things is that he took the time

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to chain the exits so that nobody could leave the building.

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One student who was there the morning of April 16th stated that they remember Cho

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peeking into his classroom two times, which he found odd because surely a student at this time

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is April now, he's probably been in school at least since August.

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Nobody is going to be lost at this point of the school year.

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So he thought that was rather odd of somebody just peeking in.

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I mean, I'm imagining that this might be where Cho is probably

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making the decision on if he was going to go through this plan or not.

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It's probably a good bit of that.

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I mean, there's there's going to be a whole lot of adrenaline with that.

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So he's really got to commit or there could there's a possibility that he could have been

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looking for the room with the most amount of people.

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Yeah.

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So it's probably a little bit of both.

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But yeah, he's definitely trying to psych himself up because that's a heavy decision to make.

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Absolutely.

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Well, he made the decision because as Cho proceeded to move from room to room,

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he did begin shooting as many people as he could find along his path.

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Over a dozen people were wounded during Cho's rampage, but 25 students and five

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faculty members were not as fortunate.

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None of those victims survived.

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That's a lot, especially with pistols.

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It is.

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Now for the next 10 to 12 minutes and oh gosh, that just doesn't seem like a ton of time here,

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but when you're thinking about it, the next 10 to 12 minutes,

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Corey Cho zigzagged between classrooms specifically to room 206 and 207.

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And here's where he went up and down the aisles of desks and killed everyone in his path.

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At 12 minutes, it must have seemed like an eternity.

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Well, I'll tell you this, though.

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There were students in room 205 that heard the gunfire and knew what it was that they

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were listening to. They took immediate action, Corey, and they worked together to fight back

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despite the maniacal laughter that they heard as Cho made his way through the building.

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Could you just imagine that? Just hear the gunfire.

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You hear this guy laughing hysterically, making his way through the building.

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Yeah, that's haunting. But I'll say the students that fought back are heroes.

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That takes a lot of bravery, especially if you're not armed.

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That's incredible that they did that.

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100%. Well, those students created a barricade between Cho and themselves as they shoved tables

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up against the doorways leading into their classroom. So I'm imagining all this.

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They're just taking tables and they're pushing it up against the door.

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Witnesses reported to CNN that Cho attempted to enter that room by kicking in the door and

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jiggling the door handle. That to me is just one of those things that you would see in a movie,

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jiggling the door handle. But he was not able to get in because those classmates were really

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pushing those tables hard to keep him out. Yeah, just death on the other side.

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Yeah. So bravo to them. That did not stop Cho, Corey, because after the students shoved the

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table against the door to keep him out, Cho fired through the door in the hopes of killing someone,

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anyone who was standing against that door. One of the professors, a Holocaust survivor,

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was standing there trying to keep Cho from entering the room. Unfortunately,

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Corey, he did not survive. People inside room 211 also heard the gunshots and called 911.

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The room was barricaded, but Cho did manage his way inside. And Cho did the same thing as before.

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He walked up and down several rows of desks while gunning people down. You know, that's a fear of

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mine is that that is going to happen in our building. And I mean, it doesn't have to be

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just a school, Corey, because in Metro Atlanta, there was just a shooting at a hospital. And

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I mean, you just don't know. Yep. You never know. You always have to be vigilant,

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even if you're not somebody that believes in carrying a firearm. You need to at the very

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least be vigilant. Be aware of your surroundings because that'll prevent you from becoming a victim.

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Absolutely. And have an escape plan if you can. Well, three people in that room,

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211 who were shot, they ended up playing dead and they survived. You hear that a lot too,

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is even if you do get shot, I know it's going to be painful, but play dead. And that is how

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a lot of people survive. Yeah. In that situation, that may be your best bet. And

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certainly you fight back, but that's a massive risk also. Yeah. Either way, I think it just depends

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on who the perpetrator is too and what their goals are or what their mentality is. You just,

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I mean, you can't, you can't read their minds and I'm sure they're very unpredictable.

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For lack of better words, Corey Cho completed his mission to do as much damage as he could before

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turning the gun on himself and completing suicide. He did so just as police entered the building and

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made their way up to the second floor. The shooting rampage lasted a total of 11 minutes.

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Cho fired 174 rounds of ammunition in this time period. He killed 30 people and wounded 17 more

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while six others received injuries after attempting to jump out the windows. Remember those main doors

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had been chained shut. So this, the initial shots were at 7 15. Yep. 7 15 in the morning.

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And this was a little after nine, correct? So what were the police doing? Why did it take them so

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long to make entry? I mean, I know that it's chained, but I would assume in 2007 they would

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have a ramp to get into the facility. I mean, so interesting that you say that. Yeah, there is

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definitely a little bit of downtime between the time that he went to the first dorm and killed

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those two students before he made his way over to the hall where classes were in session. What

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happened, Corey, is that because the two victims in the dorm had been shot, the police were really

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focusing their time and efforts on just those two victims. Because remember everything was quiet

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after the two shootings. First thing in the morning, everything got quiet. Cho was in his room

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erasing his hard drive. He was deleting emails and things like that. Police originally thought

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that this had something to do with one of the two people or both people that had gotten killed in

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the dorm room. They specifically looked at Emily Hillshure's boyfriend because they originally

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thought it was a domestic situation. Yeah, I see where they're going with that. I don't really like

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to armchair quarterback, but I don't think that was the correct way to handle that. Okay. So let

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me talk about that downtime where things were quiet because police are over on another part of

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the campus investigating a shooting, thinking that it was a domestic dispute. So let me tell you what

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happened in that two and a half hour timeframe. Two days after the mass shooting on April 18th,

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2007, this is two days after Cho went through on his rampage on campus. NBC News in New York

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received a package from Cho. The package was incorrectly addressed. That's why it probably

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took two days to get to New York. And that could have been why there was a delivery delay. The

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timestamp on the front of the package confirmed that Cho had mailed the package in between killing

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the two people at 7.15 in the morning and going to the education building. So he was definitely

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completing some chores. He was doing everything he was doing in his own dorm room. And then he

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made a pit stop to the post office. That's crazy. Doing that and then going about your ways. I just

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said it's a mindset that I cannot understand. Yeah, I get it. When the package was examined,

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investigators discovered a manifesto of sorts showing that Cho had planned his attack for

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quite some time. And I had mentioned he had bought some handguns at least two months in advance.

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The package included several photographs of Cho posing with guns. There was a videotape with Cho

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ranting and raving about wealthy snobs and brats and how he was being picked on. He even referenced

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Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the two students responsible for Columbine. So interesting that

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you said that earlier. Yeah, there's a lot of related factors with a lot of these shootings.

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There's a lot of things that, yeah, it's common trends that you see with them. It's a big reason

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why I think it's a mental health issue. Yeah. And then do you think too that it's a copycat?

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Oh yeah, 100%. So they are talking about releasing the manifesto for the Nashville

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shooting that just happened. And the reason why they're saying that they haven't released it yet

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is because they don't want any copycat killers. Because a lot of these guys look up to the

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other ones, the previous ones, and they try to outdo them and whatnot. Well, I mean, in today's

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day and age, I think that we definitely are a lot more educated on how these things need to be

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approached. But in the meantime, as far as Cho was concerned, there was no motive for the Virginia

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Tech shootings that were evident inside the videotape. Investigators, they really do not

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believe that Cho was targeting anyone in particular. It was just whoever was in his path that day.

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I want to give you a brief background on who Sung-Wi Cho is. He was born in 1984 and moved to

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America with his family from South Korea in 1992 when he was eight years old. Because, Corey,

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why do people move to America? Better opportunity. Absolutely. His parents were hoping that he and

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his sister would get a better education. Growing up, Cho was extremely shy and socially withdrawn,

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which his parents actually recognized and were very concerned about. They believed that when Cho was

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just three years old, he was traumatized by a medical procedure that contributed to his social

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anxiety. I'm not really sure what that was, Corey, but I get it. Cho was later diagnosed with selective

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mutism. I don't know if you've ever heard of that. You really just kind of choose when you're going

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to talk and when you're not. He also had major depression and was placed on medication at a young

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age. When Cho was in grade seven, two students entered a high school in Columbine, Colorado,

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and killed 15 people, including themselves. They injured 24 more. A year later, after this event,

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Cho wrote a paper for his eighth grade English class, Corey, referencing the Columbine shootings

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and stating that he wanted to repeat this incident. Okay. Why did the teacher not tell the parents?

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That's a huge issue. That needs to be addressed ASAP. That's falling on the adults at that point.

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Yeah. It sounds like the parents at least knew that he had some issues and they were

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attempting to seek help on his behalf. But yeah, if I were to read that, obviously this is

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15 years later, but- Still, that's showing he's got a pattern at a very early age.

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How old are you when you're in grade eight? 13? Just early teens. That's definitely a time

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changing life events happen during that time period. But yeah, that to me is a big red flag.

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If you're an English teacher and you're reading something like that, I'd be contacting parents,

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the administrators, all sorts of people. Yeah. When I was that age, I was just trying to be like

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Travis Pastrana. I didn't want to hurt anybody. I just wanted to have fun and do crazy stuff.

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Years later, when Cho moved on to the University of Virginia Tech campus, he continued to be

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described as a loner with some significant mental health problems and he was a social recluse. So

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nothing's really changed. I mean, his parents described him as that when he was younger and

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he just grew up, got taller and did the same thing. He always wore sunglasses indoors and

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pulled his cap over his eyes. He spoke in low tones and hesitated before responding to

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many conversations. In 2005, when Cho would have been a second year student, he was held briefly

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at a psychiatric facility when he did express his thoughts of suicide to one of his roommates.

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His roommate went and reported, which was a good thing in my opinion. I mean, he was given help.

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Cho was ordered to seek outpatient care after he was diagnosed with a mood disorder. And it was at

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this time that the courts did consider Cho to be a danger to himself, but he did not convey any

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outwardly homicidal thoughts. Clearly he has some mental health issues. His roommate was insightful

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enough to make a report on that. He got some treatment. He was ordered to have outpatient

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treatment, but Corey, as many incidents that we talk about here on Dying to be Found, Cho kind of

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fell through the cracks here. Nobody followed up on his outpatient treatment. So what his roommate

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did was exactly what you need to do in this situation. This is for the listeners also.

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If you recognize something is off, if they say something like having homicidal thoughts,

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suicidal thoughts, that needs to be reported because too many times with these active shooters,

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you'll see that they had said things to people before and it never went reported. They don't

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take it seriously. Yeah. Because you think they're joking. Yeah. That needs to be reported all the

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time. If anything, it's creating a paper trail. Oh yeah. Absolutely. Now I will tell you this,

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speaking of paper trail, there are some patterns going on here because at Virginia Tech, one of

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Cho's previous professors who was later interviewed also became concerned when she worked with Cho

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one-on-one and was quite disturbed by his written assignments, kind of going back to middle school

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there, but obviously still continuing on by the time he reached his university level. Although

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nothing seemed forthcoming immediately, Cho did have a tendency to write in a style with

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underlying threats. And I'll give you an example here. There was one assignment where Cho had

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written about a 13 year old boy who accused his father of molesting him, which ended in the boy

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completing suicide. So I don't know if this is diary style or there's no concrete evidence that

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he was abused. He was sexually abused as a young boy, but clearly he is writing it all down for

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people to read. I mean, is this a cry for help? I mean, it could be. It could just be him writing

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down the fantasy. You can never tell with people with these mental issues like this. So true.

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A second play that Cho wrote included a conversation where several high school students

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confront an abusive teacher. I'm not sure that this one would go over in today's school system

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again, but Cory, this was quite some time ago. Like you said, it could be fantasy. It could be

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a cry for help, but we'll never know. In the second playwright, Cho wrote, quote, I want to kill him.

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I want to watch him bleed like the way he made us kids bleed, unquote. Well, that's a red flag.

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Yeah. That's definitely a fantasy. 100%. Yeah. Definitely some alarm bells going off here. Yeah.

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All right. Well, that's enough time that I'm going to spend on Cho. I will say that he didn't just

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mail a package off to NBC News in New York. He also left a note in his dorm room and inside that

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note, he ended with the phrase, quote, you caused me to do this, unquote. And I'm not sure who you

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are, but he did just say that somebody caused him to do this. All right. I'm going to give you a small

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timeline of events provided by CNN that Virginia Tech officials took part in after that package

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arrived at NBC News on April 18th, 2007. School officials sent out an email at 9.26 AM. This is

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two hours and 15 minutes after the shooting, first thing in the morning at the Ambler Johnston Hall

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and where the two students had gotten killed. They sent out an email at 9.26 AM, kind of warning

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students, hey, you might want to stay in your dorm rooms or just keep a watchful eye out. At 9.45 AM,

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a 911 call comes in to report the shootings at the Norris Hall for engineering and mechanics.

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At 9.50 AM, Virginia Tech officials send out another mass email telling all students to,

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quote, please stay put, unquote. A second email followed warning students that a gunman was

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loose on the campus. At 9.55 AM, Virginia Tech students received a third email to warn them

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of the shootings over at the Norris Hall. At 10.16 AM, all classes were canceled. At 12.42 PM,

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students and faculty were released from campus and classes and classes were all canceled for

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the next day. All right, pause here for just a second here, Corey. For our listeners, I specifically

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give my son Corey stories that he can give us some insights here on law enforcement perspectives.

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And Corey, you had just mentioned the Nashville one and what a phenomenal job that they have recently

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done. So you've had some SWOT training here and I kind of want to see what your thoughts are on how

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things could be handled in this situation because I'm not hearing a lot about law enforcement's

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involvement here in any of these events that are happening on campus. So what are your thoughts on

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that? Okay, so law enforcement has come a very long way since 2007, but after the very first

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shootings, higher-ups would have definitely been alerted, especially if the guy is not

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tracked down yet. Every K-9 guy that we have is going to be on scene. Our SWOT team would start

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getting texts and phone calls. I'm sure that we would get a helicopter from State Patrol to

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patrol the area. We would be doing everything in our power to find this guy. Once the second

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shooting would have happened, we would have been able to find out pretty quick where it's coming

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from because it's hard to conceal gunfire. Once that gunfire is heard, we have to move as fast

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as physically possible. If you go back and watch the Nashville body cams, what they're doing is

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once they make entry, they hadn't heard any gunfire recently. They just have a general idea of where

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the shooter is at, and they're slowly clearing every room as they push forward. But once they

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hear gunfire, they just start pushing. And that's what exactly you need to do is go directly to that

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gunfire. He shouldn't have had an opportunity to go room to room to room because that's a very long

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timeframe. It is, and it all happened in 11 minutes. Now remember how I had told you, though, police

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did actually enter the building and were making their way up to the second floor towards those

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shots, but 10 minutes had gone by. So yeah, that's a tremendous amount of damage. I mean, once you're

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in the building and you're hearing gunshots, it shouldn't take 10 minutes to get there. But at the

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same time, they didn't have that kind of training like we do now. Today, we really emphasize on

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active shooter stuff because it's so big now. We'll train with buses. We learn the ins and outs of

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how the buses work, how to open all the doors and everything. And San Luis schools and churches, we

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have training every year. We get volunteers that either attend the church or work at the school.

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They'll come and play as role players and we'll have simulation rounds, which is basically like

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paintball. And we're given an active shooter situation and we just run through them and

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practice on how we react on everything. Oh, that's intense. I've been in a practice

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lockdown of sorts and I knew it was a simulation, but I mean, it gave me a panic attack and it

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wasn't even a real thing. Yeah. I mean, you never know. I mean, even whatever you're training, it's

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good to try to simulate that feeling that you're going to have. So it's at least now you have a

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better idea how you'll react. Yeah, I'll cry. I'm sure most people will. All right. For all

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intense purposes, I do want to let you know that Sung Wee Cho was never identified as the shooter

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until the day after the shooting, Corey. Virginia Tech officials made a statement that the reason

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they never canceled classes earlier in the morning when everything occurred was because they believed

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it was that domestic dispute that I had told you about earlier. Virginia Tech was fined an undisclosed

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amount of money by the department of education for failing to issue a prompt campus wide warning

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after Cho initially killed the two coeds at 7.15 on the morning of April 16th. And I will say this,

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they did not know that he was the active shooter because I had told you that he had committed

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suicide and he was amongst the victims. They saw the gun laying by him and just assumed that he

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was probably just another victim until they got the gun and got his fingerprints. Yeah. I see

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the direction they were going, but I mean, clearly there's not a whole lot of information on the law

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enforcement reaction. So I'm not really sure what led them to believe it was the boyfriend directly.

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So that's why I don't like to armchair quarterback with law enforcement stuff,

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because you never really know exactly how things played out from their side. Exactly. In 2008,

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families from the Virginia Tech shootings agreed to an 11 million US dollar settlement, which is

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said to have covered survivors' medical expenses, plus compensate families who lost a loved one. To

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me, that's not a ton of money. Any family who accepted the settlement gave up any rights to

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sue Virginia Tech, the state or any other local government in connection to the case. It's unclear

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how many families agreed to the settlement, but just know that $11 million distributed amongst

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32 victims and numerous wounded people. That is to me, not a ton of money. I'm willing to bet that

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didn't cover a lot of medical bills and funerals. It took another two years before Norris Hall was

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reopened on the Virginia Tech campus. On April 10th, 2009, Norris Hall took on a new role by

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housing the Center for Peace Studies and Violence Prevention. The original engineering science and

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mechanics courses were relocated to another area on the Virginia Tech campus. I mean, I can kind

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of see that. If you're brave enough to go back and continue on with your education there, I think that

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that was probably wise for them to move the area that you're going to be making your studies, you

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know? Yeah. Yeah. I wouldn't want to go in there, especially if you're a survivor and you got to see

422
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:36,720
that. That's going to trigger some PTSD right there. I don't know, Corey, if you were wondering

423
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:42,720
if Virginia Tech was held responsible in any other way for this massacre. And the answer is actually

424
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:49,360
yes. As it turns out, Cho was known for writing those angry and or violent papers for class

425
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:56,240
assignments, which at one point had grown to cause concern amongst faculty members and even students.

426
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,840
Apparently, Cho had written at least two scripts of some plays that he was assigned to write for

427
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:07,600
his English class, which reflected violence that someone should have taken note of. The problem here,

428
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:13,920
though, is that no one reported Cho to administrators or authorities before he went on his early morning

429
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:18,640
rampage on April 16th. I mean, I certainly think that people need to be held accounted for with

430
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:25,040
not reporting his behavior. But then, I mean, look at horror movies, the sick and twisted stuff that

431
00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:30,000
people would put in there, the writers of that stuff. It's probably pretty dang similar, if you

432
00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:36,640
think about it. Yeah. So that could easily be a defense for him. Absolutely. Mental health services

433
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:42,240
on the Virginia Tech campus also came into question because medical staff has stated that they were

434
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:49,040
unaware of the outpatient treatment that Cho was ordered back in 2005. I had mentioned that nobody

435
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:57,680
followed up on that. So mental health services were also questioned. According to the Clary Act of 1990,

436
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:03,760
US colleges and universities are required to disclose any known crimes to faculty, staff,

437
00:34:03,760 --> 00:34:09,760
and students that occur near any college or university campus that receives federal financial

438
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:17,280
aid. This act was put in place after Jean Clary, a 19-year-old woman, was raped and murdered on her

439
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:25,360
university campus in 1986. Her attack went unreported for quite some time, along with 38 other

440
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:31,520
incidents at Lehigh University in Bethlehem, Pennsylvania, where she attended. Good Lord.

441
00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:38,560
I know, right? Yeah, that's ridiculous. Various lawsuits were filed from wrongful death to failing

442
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:44,800
to notify students early enough. Virginia Tech eventually paid fines in the amount of $32,500

443
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:51,760
to the Department of Education in violation of the Clary Act. Let me say that again,

444
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:58,480
Corey. $32,000. That's nothing to them. That's pocket change to a university. How much money they

445
00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:04,720
pull in at universities. It's insane. That's a pretty big school too, isn't it? Yeah, it's pretty

446
00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:10,800
big. That's nothing to them. Nope. Well, I think for time purposes, I don't have a lot of time to

447
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:18,640
go through the list of victims, so I will place those in our show notes. And Corey, that is the

448
00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:24,160
story of the Virginia Tech massacre. I will tell you this, because we don't have a lot of time to

449
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:32,560
put those names into this episode. I did find a really good website called weremember.vt.edu

450
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:39,760
that commemorates the 32 victims. And the one neat thing that I saw too, Corey, is that they do hold

451
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:44,960
all sorts of events throughout the entire year, like an expression of remembrance. They do

452
00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:52,640
candlelight ceremonies. They do 5K runs. And I mean, so much more. And it's not just in Virginia.

453
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:59,920
They have annual events in Delaware, Colorado, Illinois, North Carolina, South Carolina,

454
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:05,840
and Virginia. So again, I'll go ahead and link those notes. But yeah, so that is the story of

455
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:13,280
the Virginia Tech massacre of 2007. Texas just passed a bill where they're going to start hiring

456
00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:19,280
veterans to be security guards within schools now that are paid by the schools. Oh, good. They're

457
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:23,040
armed. As of right now, I think they just have handguns. They'll be plain clothed so they won't

458
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:29,120
look, you know, the whole military look. Yeah, that's great. In Texas, you said? Yes, in Texas.

459
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:33,760
Awesome. They need to have ARs because most of these school shooters are using rifles. Because,

460
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:38,480
I mean, in all reality, a pistol is not... You're going to lose that gunfight any day of the week.

461
00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:43,760
And there are ways for them to be able to conceal that a lot better, because I wouldn't want them

462
00:36:43,760 --> 00:36:48,800
walking around with rifles all day anyways. But there are ways around that. Yeah, absolutely.

463
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,480
These guns aren't going away. There's more guns than people in America. Whether or not you like

464
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:57,920
that, best bet is to act defensively, make plans, and then we can work on this mental issue.

465
00:36:57,920 --> 00:37:02,320
Absolutely. Well said, Cory. I think that's our teachable moment today.

466
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:07,520
Do you have one? I mean, I've got plenty. Do you want to do the teachable moment? I've got one,

467
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:12,240
but based on our conversation, I'm not sure that you might even correct me on this.

468
00:37:12,240 --> 00:37:14,880
No, that's serious. I say fight back.

469
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:20,480
I agree, completely. I know it's terrifying, and you really don't know how you're going to react

470
00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:24,800
in that situation. No one truly does until they're put in that kind of situation. But fighting back

471
00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:29,120
is the best way to solve it, because otherwise, I mean, I know it's scary. I know you might get hurt.

472
00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,680
I know you might get killed, but that's a risk that you have to take, because otherwise, several

473
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:37,360
other people are going to get killed. There's no reason why 32 people should have been killed.

474
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,240
I know that several students did fight back or at least defend themselves, but there are ways that

475
00:37:42,240 --> 00:37:47,840
he could have been taken down. It's your duty as a citizen of the country to protect the others

476
00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:53,040
around you. Yeah. I mean, look, there's more of you than that. There's one gunman. There's going to be 30 of y'all.

477
00:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,680
Yeah. I mean, what comes to mind to me here is the Pennsylvania Flight 93,

478
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:02,080
where passengers stood up against the hijackers during 9-11. Let's roll.

479
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:07,760
Yeah. I went to a safety course several years ago, Cory. I think maybe when I first moved back to

480
00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:12,560
Georgia, but they did tell us to fight back if you can. I mean, gosh, if you're in the middle of

481
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:19,040
Walmart and you're on the toilet paper, I'll throw those big old containers of toilet paper at the

482
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:24,240
perpetrator. Just do everything that you can. You definitely want to get out of danger's way, but

483
00:38:24,240 --> 00:38:30,560
yeah, you're right. Force in numbers, like you said. All right. Well, I guess between you and me,

484
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:35,120
we got a teachable moment out today. Good. I hope that helps people. Hopefully, they never have to use it,

485
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:40,960
not for bed. Absolutely. All right, Cory, thanks for helping me out with this episode of Dying

486
00:38:40,960 --> 00:38:46,080
to be Found. Yeah. Yeah, that was a good one. If any of our listeners have any more insights on

487
00:38:46,080 --> 00:38:51,920
the Virginia Tech shootings, please DM us on Instagram. Okay. Talk to you next week.

488
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:57,280
Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review

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