Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Deb.
And I'm Beth.
Welcome back to Dying to be Found True Crime Podcast.
If you're new here, thanks so much for listening.
My sister Beth is here to help me out with today's episode, which is always fun because Beth, we don't talk so much in between anymore.
I know we just have busy lives, so it's always a new experience getting in touch with you again.
Yes, it is.
Yeah.
So with that, just make sure you're checking out all of our episodes because sometimes you'll get my sister Beth.
Sometimes you get my daughter Shelby.
And sometimes you get my son Corey.
Just depends on the mood and what you want to listen to because every episode is different.
And then I'll just throw in one more little thing, Beth.
If anybody out there is interested in listening to just short stories or even collabs with other podcasters that I like to listen to, head on over to Dying to be Found The Dash.
You will find it under a very similar logo like we have with Dying to be Found.
So head on over there and check that one out as well.
Check it out, folks.
Anything going on with you, Beth?
It has been a couple of weeks since we talked.
Gosh, it has.
No, I worked this weekend, so it's quiet and I got to do some reading.
I'm reading a book for a book club.
Oh, good.
Are you one of these people that has to, when you start a book, you have to finish it?
Yes.
I think I am too, but I'll tell you what, I'll start a book.
Let's just say that I have some downtime, maybe the electricity is out in the wintertime.
I'll start a book.
I'll get halfway through it and then life gets back to normal again.
It can be three years before I finish that book.
Get out of here.
Uh-huh.
But it does.
It sits on my bedside table and I look at it.
But by gosh, I finish it.
My gosh.
If I waited that long, I wouldn't finish it.
In fact, I almost stopped finishing it.
I was almost finished reading it when I was a third of the way through and I thought,
no, just give it a couple more pages and then it picked up again.
So.
Oh, good.
Yeah.
That's good.
All right.
What else?
Anything else going on?
No, you?
No, I've had some downtime here.
I put out some notices.
I got laryngitis or something a couple of weeks ago.
I have never been hit by pollen this hard in my life.
It has just been, ugh, it's been a struggle.
But yeah, I took some downtime and I thought, you know what, maybe I just need to step back
a little bit.
So I'm really toying.
This would be something that will affect our audience space.
I'm toying with just going to every two weeks on Dine to be Found, but I'll definitely let
people know on the direction I'm going to go with that.
So other than that, no, everything's good.
Good.
So what are we doing today?
So we're going to be talking about a bank heist.
And I originally had this one prepared for Corey, but the more I thought about it, the
more I thought, well, first of all, I just did a bank heist with him, with the Brian
Wells, if you have heard that one.
Right.
Now this one here, I think you're going to remember, but before I go into this, I wanted
to know if you have ever heard of the term Stockholm syndrome.
I didn't until this particular case.
I don't want to give things away, so I'm not going to say.
You can say because it's in the title.
People chose this podcast to listen to today because of the title.
Okay.
We are talking about Patty Hearst today and you were saying Beth, she started feeling
sorry for and was on the side of the bad guys.
Yeah, exactly.
Let me just tell you, I thought that Stockholm syndrome came from the Patty Hearst case.
I thought that's where it was first pegged, but it wasn't.
It got its name from a famous bank heist that took place in the 1970s shortly before the
Patty Hearst case.
To answer your question, what is Stockholm syndrome?
Like you said, Beth, it's a psychological response to being held captive where that
person being held against their will begins to sympathize with their captors.
So just like you said.
Yeah.
How did you find that out about the other case with Stockholm syndrome in your research
on Patty?
I did because I've heard the term Stockholm syndrome quite a bit since we've been recording
and this is not the first time I looked it up or even referenced it in our podcast because
since I associated Patty Hearst with Stockholm syndrome, I wanted to see if this is where
everything originated.
But no, there was another case where a man in Stockholm, Sweden, who robbed a bank and
he took people hostage.
It's kind of a prequel to the Patty Hearst ordeal because even though this bank robbery
occurred back in the early seventies, Patty Hearst truly is the one who is mainly associated
with this.
And then of course, you know, going forward, you always have people apply.
But did you know that there is no such thing as Stockholm syndrome?
What?
It's just a term.
Oh, okay.
And do you know why?
No.
There has never been a formal study on the Stockholm syndrome and how people being held
captive do associate or do begin to sympathize with their captors.
There's never been a formal study statistically or scientifically to solidify that Stockholm
syndrome even exists.
Intriguing.
All right.
Well, let me tell you about what happened to kind of lead into the Patty Hearst case.
On August 23rd, 1973, Jan Erik Olsen entered a bank in Stockholm, Sweden and simply began
shooting.
I think he might have shot up in the air.
Beth, I don't think he shot anybody on purpose or specifically.
He was just trying to get people's attention.
And he did end up taking three hostages until he discovered after probably some people were
let out of the bank or people just kind of dispersed in different directions, he discovered
a fourth person hiding inside the bank.
So he had four hostages back in 1973 and things didn't actually go as he had planned here.
Olsen planned his bank robbery with two factors in mind.
Okay.
So this is the thought process of just an everyday ordinary citizen with some sinister
behavior.
Okay?
Okay.
Number one, there was a major political campaign going on at the time.
So Olsen planned this bank robbery around that political campaign.
And number two, Sweden citizens on a whole naturally steer away from any forms of violence.
So basically, Beth, Olsen was thinking that if he were to rob a bank, no one would resist
his attempts to rob that bank because Swedish citizens are nicer than Canadians.
I know stereotypically Canadians are nice, but apparently Swedish people are nicer.
So yeah, I'm stereotyping right now.
Well, stereotype, keep us Canadians up there.
Yeah.
So Olsen planned his bank robbery between the political campaign and the fact that Swedish
citizens were naturally nice people and wouldn't resist his efforts.
How about that?
Pretty interesting.
I guess I can see his point.
You want as minimal resistance as possible, right?
Yes.
All right.
When Olsen took hostages inside the bank, he didn't exactly get what he bargained for,
at least not this go round because believe it or not, based on what I just said, Beth,
authorities refused all of his demands, which turns into a four day pretty intense hostage
situation inside that bank because the authorities were not giving in.
Apparently Olsen misjudged them.
Wow.
I don't think I've heard of a four day hostage situation.
How many days have you heard?
Just one day.
Yeah, I guess, I don't know.
I guess he was just planning on trying to get a few things while he was in there besides
money, but then again, he did have hostages as well.
All right.
During those four days, Olsen actually treated the hostages with kindness.
Despite his aggressive entrance into the bank, Olsen made assurances to his hostages that
he was not going to hurt them or let them get hurt.
He actually made them as comfortable as possible in this high stress situation.
For example, Beth, Olsen untied the hostages, spoke very calmly and allowed them to call
their families.
How about that?
Hmm.
I don't even know what to say because it's so strange.
Well, guess what?
He even consoled one hostage who could not get in touch with their family member.
I'm sure that the stress levels were really high.
They were pretty upset with the situation, obviously being held at gunpoint.
He consoled the person.
Wow, that's awful nice of him.
How polite.
Obviously, the police had to do something here and we know that hostage negotiators
are going to try everything in their power to minimize collateral damage.
At one point, police did have Olsen directly in their crosshairs when one of the hostages
saw what was going on.
They realized that a gun was being pointed at Olsen and they screamed at the police,
Beth, not to shoot.
Could you imagine?
No.
Long story short, police were eventually able to use gas to force Olsen out of the bank
after that four day mark.
The hostages were all released safe and sound.
Now enter the commentators who said that the hostages sympathized with their captors here,
Beth.
And that's how the term Stockholm syndrome was born.
That's very interesting.
Yeah, I thought it was interesting too.
When I took a deep dive into that.
Well, that's why your podcasts are so good.
Because you dive deep, your listeners are even telling you.
I've had some new listeners just really say just that and I absolutely appreciate it.
Now that we know what Stockholm syndrome is, we're going to start talking about how this
applies to Patty Hearst.
But first, let me tell you who she is and give you a little bit of her background.
You're going to like this, Beth.
Okay.
Patricia Campbell Hearst was born on February 20th, 1954 in San Francisco, California.
One of my favorite cities, by the way.
Oh, I'd love to go there.
Have you never been?
No, I want to see those rural houses that you always see on TV.
Oh, Beth.
That's what I love so much about it.
It is like you're there.
Just surrounded by what you always see on TV.
There's just no comparison.
Well, Patty was the third of five daughters and grew up in a well-to-do neighborhood,
mainly because she came from a very affluent family.
Patty is the granddaughter of William Randolph Hearst, a very powerful newspaper publisher
who pretty much shaped how journalism is reported today through all things, Beth, the tabloids.
Oh.
Beth loves her tabloids.
Yes.
Oh, even as a kid.
Even as a kid.
Oh, me too.
I liked them as a kid.
I haven't read them lately.
Patty's grandfather, William Randolph Hearst, is said to have invented tabloid magazines,
which inspired Orson Welles music classic, Citizen Kane.
Patty attended Catholic schools growing up.
She graduated early from high school.
Won some pretty prestigious awards in junior college and then went on to major in art history.
Things were going pretty well for 19-year-old Patty Hearst in 1974.
She had just gotten engaged and recently moved in with her fiance.
This is very curious.
She seems like she has the world by the tail.
That she does, a very well-rounded family for sure.
Yes.
Now, here's where things are going to take a turn.
According to FBI files, around 9 p.m. on February 4th, 1974, Patty Hearst received unexpected
visitors in her flat at 2603 Benvenue Street, apartment 4 in Berkeley, California.
Patty heard a knock at the door and when she answered, several men and women burst inside.
The intruders proceeded to beat Patty's fiance up, who was home at the time.
They grabbed Patty, tied her up, blindfolded her, and led her off only to be thrown in
the trunk of their car before speeding off.
Wow.
Just wow.
Well, this kidnapping, Beth, was no accident.
Patty had just been kidnapped by the Symbionese Liberation Army, also known as the SLA, who
were known as domestic terrorists that used guerrilla warfare against the U.S. government.
Adding fact here, I thought this was really odd.
The SLA only consisted of about 12 members, Beth.
Get out.
Yeah.
So it wasn't really a big radical group and it wasn't money that they were after here.
The SLA had planned Patty's kidnapping to get the country's attention, kind of like
Olsen did.
Oh, they sure did, didn't they?
Twelve members.
It sounds to me like Olsen too, because there was a political campaign going on at the time.
It sounds to me like he was also trying to get attention in Sweden.
Well, here in America, one of the SLA members was later interviewed to say why and how the
kidnapping took place.
The reason was because Patty had come from that very affluent family and the SLA felt
that kidnapping her would send a message to the capitalist state by creating massive press
coverage.
So they did their homework a little bit.
They knew who they were kidnapping and Patty was directly linked to the tabloids.
So you know that this is going to get some kind of press.
Yes.
The SLA member in Donald DeFries, who was SLA's leader, stood on either side of the
door so that they could not be seen through that peephole.
A female SLA member knocked on the door saying that there was an accident and asked to use
the phone.
Once that SLA member gained access, the two male SLA members stormed the apartment, attacked
Patty's fiance, and the female SLA member began tying Patty up with some clothesline.
So obviously they had a plan.
Patty's fiance later said in an interview that he thought it was just a robbery gone
bad.
He fended off the assailants the best he could.
And after Patty was taken, he went to the neighbor's door to get help.
And the bad news here, Beth, is that no one answered, likely out of fear, because I'm
sure they heard some kind of ruckus going on.
But the good news is Patty's fiance was left behind with no further injury.
Not exactly a good situation, but at least he survived.
Yes.
And I don't know if they were armed or not.
Obviously they had something to detain Patty, but I don't think that they were armed.
They may or may not have been, but I didn't really look into that.
Patty Hearst endured brutal treatment by her kidnappers.
Patty spent almost two months blindfolded and locked in a closet where she succumbed
to relentless radical rantings from the SLA, shouting, abuse, and unfortunately rape.
Geez, she really did go through it rough.
I can't even have imagined flipping and feeling sorry for them later on.
I'd be pretty angry.
Yeah, I would say, Beth, if you're thinking in those terms at some point in time, if you're
going through such, what would I say, such abuse over and over and over again, and then
maybe you're going to be given empty promises that, hey, we'll stop doing this if you start
following our beliefs.
True.
I can see how she could probably turn a little bit here, but I'll get into more a little
bit later because that actually, I mean, it'll fall into place as we keep talking.
Patty later said that she was brainwashed during that captivity period because of the
tactics that SLA members used.
Patty felt a sense of dread based on the fact that she knew that she was going to be killed
if she did not begin to cooperate.
So basically what I just said, because she had been isolated, sexually abused, and fed
radical propaganda for almost two months straight with no rescue in sight, Patty began to show
vulnerability towards her kidnappers.
So there you go.
Three days after Patty had been kidnapped, the SLA began releasing audio tapes to a local
radio station stating that they were holding Patty Hearst as a, quote, prisoner of war,
unquote.
All 12 of them were holding one person as a prisoner of war.
They demanded, get this Beth, $70 for every needy person between Santa Rosa and Los Angeles,
California to receive of all things, food donations in return for Patty's release.
That's what they wanted.
That's crazy.
I know.
Okay.
So who sat down here and put this down on paper as far as their list of demands?
Oh my gosh.
That sounds like something out of a movie, not true.
The SLA was able to extort 2 million US dollars or 2.7 Canadian dollars from Patty's parents
as they began to give away food items.
Patty was never released.
Instead 2 million US dollars or 2.7 million Canadian dollars was simply not adequate and
demanded another 6 million US dollars or 8.1 Canadian dollars.
So they got what they wanted, but all of a sudden it's not enough.
Like you said, did they sit down and think when they were writing out the demands?
Yeah.
I mean, did they look at the population and to see how much $70 would go, how far that
would go makes no sense.
No.
Patty's family told the SLA that they would most certainly donate that sum of money, the
8 million dollars, if Patty would be released.
But they ran into a little glitch.
In April 1974, two months after Patty's abduction, another audio tape was released to the radio
station.
Only this time, Beth, Patty was the one talking.
In these recordings, Patty stated that she had joined the SLA to fight oppression.
In her words, Patty said, I have been given the choice of number one being released in
a safe area or two, joining the forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army and fighting
for my freedom and the freedom of all oppressed people.
I have chosen to stay and fight.
What do you think of that?
She's just crazy.
I think after two months of being yelled at and tortured and all sorts of different things,
Beth, I think that it's hard to say where my mindset would be.
That's true.
It's like one of the past cases we talked about when a girl was kidnapped and felt sorry
for the people that she was with.
Can't remember that case name, but we talked about it.
Yeah.
So it's not uncommon.
No.
It happens more frequently than we think.
In a later interview, Patty stated that these tape recordings were scripted and she was
forced to read them.
So it's a he said, she said.
And for the purpose of details going forward, we'll just say that it appeared outwardly
that Patty had joined the forces with the SLA.
I'll give you an example here.
Not long after those recordings were released to the radio station, Patty was captured on
videotape brandishing a gun while robbing a bank in San Francisco, plus another store
in Los Angeles.
Yeah.
That's why I'm saying it outwardly appears that she may have joined forces.
But as we go on, you'll hear Patty's side of it.
Okay.
Of course, the news media went wild on this story.
Patty was photographed brandishing that rifle, which did appear that she was taking part
in the bank robbery.
They had zoomed in on her, Beth.
If you were to see the picture of Patty, you would probably recognize it.
And Patty was later interviewed on CNN's Larry King Live, where she gave details on what
she says actually happened.
Patty stated that she had no idea that a bank robbery was about to take place.
The SLA simply ordered her to pick up a rifle because she was about to go in and rob a bank.
Patty also stated that she was threatened to be killed if she did not go along with
that bank heist.
Now that makes sense.
Yeah, I think so too.
Two innocent bystanders were shot, unfortunately, during this robbery, Beth.
It's unclear if Patty shot anyone, but from everything that I read in this case, I don't
think that she did.
She was in the bank with that weapon, but I don't think that she did it.
On April 15th, 1974, the day of this bank heist, Patty and the SLA were able to get
away with $10,000 US dollars or $13,600 Canadian dollars.
That was a lot of money back then.
That was, it went far.
Patty later stated that by the time the bank robbery occurred, she no longer felt that
she could turn back because she felt she was in too deep.
I can see that.
Yeah, I can see that too.
A few days after that bank robbery, another audio tape was released, again in Patty's
voice.
This recording definitely had a little different air about it.
Patty strongly denied that she had been brainwashed and that she was recording on her own free
will.
She declared that she was a quote, soldier of the people's army, unquote, and even threw
in some name calling against her own family members.
That's not good.
No.
Some outlets theorize that Patty fell in love with an SLA member and this is why she followed
along.
I do remember hearing that back in the day.
I remember that she possibly fell in love with somebody, but in her interviews, Patty
did deny having any kind of romantic relationship with SLA members.
She still insists that she was just following along with the SLA out of fear.
I can see that for sure.
Other outlets glamorized Patty's involvement with the SLA, stating that she was drawn in
by the attention that she was receiving.
The cool outfits that she was dressed in, for example, there was that picture of her
in the bank wearing a beret and a long jacket, so it was a fashion statement, right?
She also glamorized carrying a machine gun and all sorts of things, Beth.
It was quite romantic in the terms of what media was putting out there.
Yes, and I do agree that they certainly were glamorizing it.
Like Bonnie and Clyde.
Yes, yes.
Finally, the SLA seemed to fit right into what was going on in America in the early
1970s.
According to NPR Broadcasting Media, there were 1000 bombings recorded around America,
Watergate was going on, and there was a major energy crisis.
So on top of all that, the glamorization of the Patty Hearst case had also come into view.
Today's society doesn't seem all that bad anymore, does it?
No.
Do you remember Harrison to the 1970s?
Oh, I know.
I remember this case so well when you're going through a lot of this.
I'm thinking, and here I was only in grade seven, but yet I remember all of this.
Must have been in the tabloids.
That I read.
Yes, probably was.
On May 16th, 1974, two SLA members plus Patty Hearst were out doing their thing and tried
to steal an ammunition belt out of a sporting goods store in Los Angeles.
It was actually just the SLA members, Beth.
They had left Patty in the van with the keys to the ignition.
Go, Patty, go.
Okay.
Do you think she drove off?
I doubt it.
Yeah, exactly.
Okay.
So here were her options.
She could either start the car and take off, or she could jump out of the car and run away.
Third option is just sit there and wait.
Which one did she do?
She just sat there and waited.
She sure did.
She stayed put.
Basically what was going on, the SLA members were inside and she didn't drive away unsupervised,
nor did she try to run away on foot while the SLA members were shopping, or in this
case, Beth, shoplifting.
I had said that SLA members tried to steal.
Well, one of the members was detained out there on the sidewalk.
Somebody inside, the clerk saw him doing it.
He ran outside and tackled one of the SLA members on the sidewalk and managed to get
ahold of them.
Wow.
Don't get too excited though, because guess what Patty did?
Not shoot them.
Nope, she didn't shoot them, but she did pull out a gun, jump out of the van, and start
spraying gunfire outside that store.
Oh, for goodness sakes.
Yep.
She was trying to let her SLA sidekick get away from the situation.
Miraculously, Patty did not kill anybody in this process, and the three people were able
to get away.
Within days though, police were able to locate the SLA's van.
I'm sure somebody got the license plate number, and it led them to a safe house where the
SLA members were staying.
Well, that's good that they managed to find where they're staying, so maybe we can get
to the bottom of this.
Yeah.
Within 24 hours, Beth, on May 17th, 1974, the SLA safe house was surrounded by all sorts
of agents and Los Angeles police where a massive shootout took place.
Oh boy.
Donald DeFries, SLA's leader of the 12, well actually 11, well maybe Patty made 12, but
the SLA's leader, Donald DeFries, along with several other SLA members were killed during
this confrontation.
But Patty and several other members were able to slip away, I guess out the back door, out
the back hatch, I'm not sure.
By this time, the story was being covered on live media, Beth.
Patty and the SLA members were able to perch a distance away as they watched the safe house
become engulfed in flames.
Oh my gosh.
I know, right?
Geez, this case, you're teaching me a lot too.
It's in my blood.
Yes.
For the next 16 months, Patty and the remaining SLA members managed to lay low.
Patty assumed the name Tanya and continued to stay hidden because she felt at this point
in time, Beth, in September of 1975, she felt there was absolutely no way that she would
be able to reappear in public at this point.
She was in too deep.
She was much too deep.
So she and the group kept moving.
They traveled across the United States.
They made their way back to California.
Why do you do that when you know that you are a wanted person?
Maybe they want to give up, turn themselves in.
Possibly.
Well, on September 18th, 1975, Patty was detained in San Francisco.
Upon her arrest, news outlets were in high pursuit and were able to capture several photos
of Patty smiling at the camera while she was being detained.
That's terrible.
I mean, I'm sitting here thinking, okay, was she brainwashed?
She's smiling at the camera.
Another photograph was taken showing Patty clenching her fists while in handcuffs with
more smiles for the camera.
What do you think of her behavior at this point, Beth?
Very strange.
It's like she thinks she's going to get off.
Yeah, possibly.
I mean, she comes from an affluent family.
While she was in the process of being fingerprinted, Patty stated that her occupation was an urban
gorilla, and not like the animal, Beth, like guerrilla warfare.
Dictionary.com defines a gorilla as a member of a small independent group, sorry, small
group, 12 people.
Yeah.
Taking part in irregular fighting, typically against regular forces.
That makes sense.
After Patty had time to reflect behind bars, she was quoted as saying, quote, I don't want
to be a part of all this lunacy anymore.
I recognize that my family loves me.
I recognize that I want to go back to my former life, unquote.
So let me ask you again, Beth, do you believe Patty was manipulated while being held against
her will, or do you think she gave in to SLA ideologies?
I think she gave in.
What do you think?
It's hard to say because I can see how she felt she was getting in too deep, and she
couldn't really come out in the public.
I mean, I'm sure she knew she was probably facing some kind of repercussions for breaking
the law and all that.
I don't know.
So this is where Patty Hearst is connected to the Stockholm syndrome, and that is where
it originated back on August 23rd, 1973 in Stockholm, Sweden, which was that prequel
to the Patty Hearst experiences.
Well, on March 20th, 1976, Patty Hearst eventually went to trial for that bank robbery that she
took part in.
She faced charges of armed bank robbery in the commission of a felony.
A well-known attorney agreed to take on this case and began working on her defense right
away.
I don't know if you've ever heard of F. Lee Bailey, Beth, have you?
Yes, yes.
Okay.
Well, I don't know who this is.
Somebody knows them.
You haven't.
I don't know.
I'm going to say I don't know who this person is, but I will say that he defended a pretty
well-known criminal by the name of Albert DiSalvo.
Do you know who that is?
No.
The Boston Strangler.
Ah, maybe that's how I know.
Okay.
I would have to go look it up to see what else they're known for, but sorry, F. Lee
Bailey, I didn't know who you were.
Yeah, I'm very interested in that Boston Strangler.
I think maybe we're going to have to venture out and do one of those big cases.
What do you think?
I think so.
Yeah.
Get it right on it.
Yes, ma'am.
Patty's legal team argued that she had been brainwashed, but that defense strategy did
her no good.
Patty was found guilty of all charges and on March 20th, 1976, she was sentenced to
seven years in prison for the bank robbery.
Let's not forget that other robbery that took place at the sporting goods store where the
SLA members attempted to steal that ammunition.
Patty had sprayed gunfire outside on the sidewalk.
She also faced charges against that, pleaded no contest, and was given probation.
I don't know how she was given probation based on the fact that she was also given
a prison sentence where she put on probation after she was released in seven years.
I didn't look all that up.
I'm glad they found her guilty.
Oh, well, yeah.
I mean, you would have to.
I mean, she was clearly there.
I mean, there was evidence and she was brandishing a gun.
That ain't no joke, you know?
No.
After 21 months, President Jimmy Carter commuted that sentence and Patty was released from
prison in February of 1976.
For goodness sakes.
Patty went on to marry her bodyguard.
She wrote a book of her experiences during her captivity and even went into acting for
a hot minute.
I think that she played in a movie, Beth, I didn't really look into this, but I think
she played herself.
You know how they have spoof movies?
Yes.
Yeah, I think that's the kind of movie that she was in.
In 2001, President Bill Clinton gave Patty a full pardon for her crimes.
That is ridiculous.
Tell me why.
Because she committed crimes.
Like how can you pardon somebody that shot guns?
I wonder though if that has got to do with the Stockholm syndrome.
Again, there's no clinical proof that exists.
So if it was based on that, then I see what you're saying.
Yeah.
Thinking back to what would happen in court, there wouldn't be able to be a psychologist
on the stand talking about Stockholm syndrome because it hasn't been studied.
No, you're right.
I'm very interested to know why he gave her a pardon.
Well look that up and let me know.
Will it say?
It will, somewhere.
Okay.
I'll look it up.
That's it, Beth.
That is the story of Patty Hearst, the heiress of tabloid magazines.
You know I had to do this story because of the tabloids.
Thank you again for telling us a very interesting story.
You're welcome.
And those 12 men making up that SLA.
Right.
So do you have a teachable moment for us?
I do have a teachable moment, Beth.
Don't answer the door if you don't know who it is.
I'm going to give you an example about Shelby, my daughter.
She told me about an incident that just happened, Beth.
Like literally this week she told me about this.
A man knocked on her door.
He was wearing blue jeans, a white button down shirt and had a spray bottle with a rag
in his hands.
That's curious.
She's at home by herself.
Someone knocks at her door and her gut feeling said, don't answer the door.
I hope she didn't.
She did not.
She just kept peeking out.
She said, Oh, I think the guy probably saw me.
He had a backpack, Shelby with her wits about her, took a picture of the guy.
Oh, interesting.
Hey.
So what she did is she posted it on social media for the neighborhood and other people
had posted some things as well.
So she did good.
She did not open the door because that what was in that backpack?
I said that could have been his kill kit.
Well, what could be in that spray bottle too?
Exactly.
Why is he holding a rag?
So many questions.
Oh my gosh.
Long story short, keep your doors locked.
Don't answer that door.
If you're not expecting anybody, Shelby, I know you're listening to this.
So you did good.
And that is my teachable moment.
Well, that teachable moment was quite interesting.
Very scary for Shelby.
Shelby, I'm so glad you didn't answer that door.
Well, Beth, it is always fun having you here on Dying to be Found.
I hope you did like this episode.
I really kind of thought about you as I was researching it.
I felt it was a better fit for you.
And we would love to receive feedback from any of our listeners on the storyline or any
other episodes.
Awesome.
So be sure to DM us on Instagram and until next time, talk to you soon.
And that's a wrap.
That is a wrap.
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