Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, welcome to our true crime podcast, Dying to be Found.
I'm your host Deb, where every week I'll pull in different co-hosts to talk about true crime.
If you are a new listener today, thank you so much for tuning in.
We are glad you're here.
And do you want to know who else is here today?
It's my sister Beth.
Hi, Beth.
Hi.
Oh my gosh, I'm so excited to have you back.
I'm really excited to be back.
Good. We got through the holidays.
It was pretty hectic, I think.
To our listeners, Beth, you took off a couple of weeks to get started on a new venture.
Do you want to tell us about that?
Well, I am now a Canadian, because I do live in Canada, stamp and upwrap.
If you have any stamping hobbies, please contact me at BethStamps.com and I can help you with your needs for all your stamping.
Excellent.
So I have never touched on that, but Beth, you are always so creative.
I look forward to the cards that you send in the mail to me for whatever occasion.
They're just amazing.
So definitely go check her out.
And I'm excited for you, Beth.
It has been way too long.
I made an announcement several episodes ago that season two is going to be a little bit different this go round.
Beth, I really think that you're going to like it too, because I have lined up some oldies, but goodies specifically geared towards you.
How about that?
Oh, fantastic.
Yeah, last season, I was kind of reflecting on this and you told me several stories that I never heard of, one being H.H.
Holmes.
Beth, how did I go this long without ever hearing of H.H.
Holmes before you told me?
Well, that's what I thought when a coworker told me about H.H.
Holmes and thought it might be a good thing to podcast.
How did I not know?
Because I really do like the old era stories that fit right in with what I like.
It was unknown to me too.
OK, so I'm not the only one.
What I found interesting is that people at work knew about it and they were talking about it in class when I just happened to finish taping that episode with you.
So I joined in the conversation.
It was quite fascinating, to be honest with you.
You're kidding.
Yeah.
So I am thrilled to have you back because I always say this is a family thing and you are my sister.
Yes.
And that's better than being a sister, Beth.
You know, I call you my sister.
Yes, I like that.
Well, to our listeners, we want to hear what you have to say about our new rotation this season.
We haven't done a ton of top headline cases up until now, but today's your lucky day because welcome to episode 54 where we're going to tell you the story of Elizabeth Short, also known as the black doll.
Yeah, Beth, how much do you know about this case?
I've seen quite a few stories on TV about it and whenever I can, I do watch it.
It was a very intriguing story.
Yeah, there's actually a movie out with Scarlett Johansson.
I remember seeing that a while back.
It was really, really good.
Okay.
So, you know, a little bit about this case.
I do feel free to critique me all the way through whatever you want.
Okay.
Let me know how I do.
Okay.
A lot has changed about this podcast, but some things do remain the same because I do have a question for you today, Beth.
Oh, what's that?
How often did you take your kids out for a walk in the neighborhood while they were in the baby buggy or stroller or just out for a walk when they were old enough to go with you?
Oh, lots of times.
Did you ever come across anything interesting or questionable?
No, never.
Oh, on January 15th, 1947, a young woman was out walking with her three-year-old daughter somewhere around 10 o'clock in the morning where they happened upon a body of a deceased woman in a vacant lot along their path.
The woman was lying right next to the sidewalk.
And like several cases that we've talked about in the past, Beth, the young mother believed that she was approaching a mannequin.
What?
A mannequin?
Yeah. Do you remember the episode we talked about with the Elvis Presley fans?
Yes.
Yeah. That was another case where somebody came across a body in the same circumstances.
So I personally have no idea how I would react to that.
But I do know that the woman turned around rather quickly, did it in a boat face and off she went and called the police.
Good for her.
Yeah. The odd thing about this discovery, Beth, is that the victim had been sliced completely in half at the waist at the second and third lumbar vertebrae of her spine.
I've never heard of this.
And I'm sure there's a medical explanation for everything.
But this procedure actually has a name.
Oh, yeah.
It's called a...
Hold on. Let me see if I can get this right.
It's a hemicorporectomy, which is the only location of our body that can be precisely separated into two pieces without breaking bones.
That's curious.
I know. So think about this, though.
Somebody actually had to know that in the medical world.
For sure. Not everybody would know such a thing unless you're a doctor.
Exactly. And I'm not a medical doctor, but I've seen plenty of medical records in my time, as I'm sure you have as well.
And do you have any idea why a hemicorporectomy would ever be performed on a human being for any reason?
None.
Yeah. And neither have I.
But I think too, maybe this would be something considered the scientific exploration of back in the day, you had to learn about the skeleton somehow.
So I'm sure they probably performed this function in medical school to teach upcoming doctors on how to deal with the human skeleton.
That's the only concept I can come up with.
Elizabeth's upper torso was arranged about 12 inches or 30 centimeters away from her lower body with her arms above her head.
Her face, breasts, and genitals had been mutilated.
And get this, there was not one drop of blood anywhere in sight.
She had been drained completely of her body fluids.
Really?
Isn't that something?
I did forget that.
That is crazy.
Yeah.
There was evidence that the victim had been tied up and sexually assaulted before her death.
And it was very apparent that she had been killed elsewhere before being placed in that vacant lot, only to be discovered by that poor mother and her little toddler.
Once investigators arrived to the scene, they examined the positioning of the body and found that the victim's intestines had been neatly placed underneath her buttocks.
Wow.
That's really a clean job, isn't it?
It is.
They were very methodical about this.
They just had it all planned out, that's for sure.
Mm-hmm.
The Los Angeles police and FBI began an immediate investigation, drawing in over 400 police officers to try to solve this case.
They collected the woman's fingerprints and, get this, that they identified her in less than one hour after using a machine.
I cannot remember the name of it, but it is an early age fax machine that generated records from across the state.
So imagine a fax machine.
Do you remember those days when the fax machine came out?
Oh, yes.
The paper it printed out on and...
The thermal paper?
Yes.
Oh, that was a day.
It was.
I remember the very first time I stood there and I was so mesmerized with the fact that there was somebody at the opposite end of the telephone pole that was shooting something over to me and it was spitting out in a machine.
Gosh, Beth, how the mind works, how the human mind can even make anything like that, that I just still be on my grasp.
It is.
It's like the telephone.
And how do airplanes really stay up there?
Yes.
I know there's, you know, those things I question myself because there's just so many unique things that human beings have made.
Yeah.
And do you know helicopters aerodynamically?
They are not even supposed to be able to fly.
I didn't know that.
Yeah, the human mind is absolutely amazing.
Well, as it turns out, the victim here was 22-year-old Elizabeth Short, who was a young waitress living on the fast track towards becoming a Hollywood icon.
Elizabeth's fingerprints were on file because she had previously applied for a job at the military commissary.
She had also been arrested for underage drinking just a few months earlier.
She had her fingerprints taken, but she was never arrested.
They did have those on file.
Now, Elizabeth was given the name Black Dahlia after her murder because at the time there was a famous Hollywood movie that had recently been released called The Blue Dahlia.
And that movie, I don't know if you've ever seen it.
I have not.
I don't think I have.
This is something I want to go look up for sure.
I want to see the similarities here.
Mm-hmm.
The storyline is based on a woman being murdered because she had an affair with a nightclub owner.
You're going to see this come into play in just a minute.
But in the meantime, Elizabeth was also called the Black Dahlia because she often wore sheer black clothing among other things.
So she was always seen in black.
And since that movie was out at the time, they kind of went hand in hand with The Blue Dahlia, The Black Dahlia.
I wanted to give you a little bit of information on Elizabeth's upbringing.
She was born on July 29th, 1924 in Boston, Massachusetts to Cleo and Phoebe Mae Short.
She was the middle child of five girls.
I mean, smack in the middle.
She was the third oldest.
And her family lived a rather modest lifestyle until the infamous stock market crash of 1929.
I believe that Elizabeth's dad was a pretty well-known small business owner.
He made many golf courses, which I thought was kind of cool.
Yeah.
But he had lost his entire life savings during that crash.
I know that's devastating.
I was just talking at work about the stock market crash.
It's believed that Cleo abandoned his car near a bridge one night and then committed suicide by jumping into a river,
leaving Elizabeth's mother to raise her and her four sisters alone after that.
However, that was not the case.
Thirteen years later in 1942, Cleo sent a letter to Phoebe to apologize for abandoning the family,
saying that he had left for a new life in California.
What do you think?
I know a Phoebe.
That's a cool name.
All right.
So I suppose I can understand.
I'm sure he had a lot of pressure on him, Beth.
He had five girls, a wife, a business.
He had a lot on his plate.
And then that stock market crashed.
That had to have been devastating.
Very.
Elizabeth was elated that her father came back into the picture.
And of course, he did stay in California.
She decided it was time for a fresh start.
So at the age of 18, she packed up all of her belongings and moved to California to be closer to her father.
I think that's pretty good.
That's cool.
Yeah.
Well, unfortunately, Beth, that was short lived.
Elizabeth and her father did not exactly see eye to eye, mainly because she was 18 years old.
She was not 100% responsible or motivated at that time.
She wasn't cleaning the house.
She wasn't going out to get a steady job.
And she found herself arguing with her father quite constantly.
But she ended up moving out on her own and did work odd jobs until she eventually made her way to Florida.
She's starting to explore, which I think is really cool.
Yeah.
It's good to see that she was starting some odd jobs, maybe to get in a little bit more enthused.
But I'm not impressed that she wasn't motivated to work or to even clean the house.
Yeah, I agree with you there.
Well, while she was living in Florida, Elizabeth met an Air Force officer, got engaged, but Beth, he died during combat during World War II.
Well, that's sad.
Yeah.
Elizabeth took this news very hard and even went on to tell people that she was not only a widow, but she lost her baby during childbirth.
I mean, that's really sad.
You just don't know how people are going to deal with grief.
Exactly.
That's a lot for one person to handle and in such a short time span.
Elizabeth eventually returned to California and worked as a waitress, taking on some modeling gigs and working her way up through the Hollywood chain while still living a humble little life in an apartment located behind, guess what?
What?
A nightclub.
Elizabeth was known amongst her friends to be feisty yet emotionally vulnerable.
And I understand that she had some challenges already in her life.
She preferred quiet nights as opposed to going out on dates.
But on September 23rd of 1932, Elizabeth was out with her friends where things got a little rowdy.
Police were called and that is when Elizabeth was booked for underage drinking.
It didn't really change very much though.
That was how she was arrested or how she was fingerprinted when she was doing her underage drinking that I had just mentioned at the very beginning of this episode.
She wasn't charged with anything, but this is where those fingerprinting records come in that helped identify Elizabeth's corpse when they found her within that hour.
Let me tell you a little bit about her last sighting.
Elizabeth was last seen alive on January 9th, 1947 by a 25-year-old married companion as she was getting out of his car at the Biltmore Hotel at 506 South Grand Avenue in downtown Los Angeles.
So that was her last sighting.
Elizabeth's companion later told police that she was going to meet up with her sister who had flown in from Boston to visit, which is nice.
Elizabeth was dressed in a black suit with no collar, a white fluffy blouse, black suede heels, stockings, white gloves, a beige overcoat and a black purse.
Gosh, Beth, this is to me just one of those absolutely fantastic classical movies where black and white movie where you just see this elegant lady get out of the car.
Isn't that cool how people dress back then?
Yeah. Oh, I love the way that they dress back then.
They were just such cute styles and elegant and their hair was so cool.
Yeah, I just watched Breakfast at Tiffany's and it was really cool to go back to that era.
Of course, Elizabeth's companion was questioned, but police eventually cleared him of any wrongdoing after he provided an alibi.
Plus, he took two lie detector tests.
Why two?
Well, maybe the first one came up looking like he didn't do any wrongdoing and wanted to do it again to find where they could have got some wrong answers.
Yeah, so inconsistencies.
Mm-hmm. That's true.
The news media quickly picked up on Elizabeth's murder and made a really big field day of it.
They proceeded to publish articles for 31 consecutive days.
Most of these articles continuously elaborated on the brutality of Elizabeth's demise.
Beth, I don't care what era this is.
I know this kind of thing sells newspapers, but was it really necessary?
Not at all, especially back then when people do not read or hear about these things.
Well, the LA Examiner's newspaper sales skyrocketed.
Mm.
On the very day they first published news about Elizabeth's murder, sales surpassed the day that the paper announced that World War II had just come to an end.
Wow.
So this case surpassed World War II coming to an end.
Isn't that crazy?
It is.
Very soon after Elizabeth was identified, a reporter from the Examiner proceeded to contact Elizabeth's mother to dig into her background.
The reporter did not tell Elizabeth's mother exactly what happened to Elizabeth, not yet anyway.
He told her instead that Elizabeth had just won a beauty contest and they were calling to get some background on her life.
Well, isn't that interesting?
Very clever.
Yeah, but also very unethical.
It is very unethical.
Well, mothers being mothers, I'm this way.
I'm sure you are too.
We like to brag about our kids, right?
We sure do.
Yeah. So of course, Phoebe was elated that Elizabeth had won this contest and she told the reporter everything that she could about Elizabeth.
Uh-oh.
It was only after he got what he needed that the reporter proceeded to tell Phoebe the real reason why he was there and what had happened to her daughter.
Oh, that's terrible.
That is inhumane.
Well, especially having the mother find out that way.
Oh, yeah.
There's everything wrong about this.
Absolutely.
To sell newspapers is crazy.
In the meantime, it seems that Elizabeth's real killer was dying to be found.
See how I did that.
Oh, I think that's cool.
See what I mean when there is more left to our interpretation about our podcast.
Someone began calling the LA Examiner telling the editor how disappointed they were in how this case was being reported.
He went on to say that he enjoyed the cat and mouse game with the police and would eventually turn himself in.
Wow. So the killer called.
Yeah, and he's quite bold about it.
Sure was.
To ensure his identity to the newspaper editor, the caller mailed the Examiner a copy of Elizabeth's birth certificate, business cards, some photographs of her,
and an address book of the occasional guest that stayed at Elizabeth's apartment behind that nightclub.
That is very strange.
I wonder how they got a hold of that stuff.
If Elizabeth had a personal relationship with this person, I'm sure that they would probably easily have access, don't you think?
But the birth certificate?
You know, with that being said, do you think her dad had anything to do with it?
I don't know.
All the items, Beth, were wiped down with gasoline to eliminate fingerprints.
And I have never heard of that.
Have you?
Gasoline to wipe down fingerprints?
No.
They were very methodical with that.
They were.
I don't know if I mentioned this to you.
They actually wiped Elizabeth's entire body down with gasoline as well.
Get out.
Yeah, I think I'm actually going to cover that in the, when I talk about the autopsy.
Okay.
Letters continue to arrive at any and all newspapers that were covering the Black Dahlia case.
And one very elaborate letter was mailed, which was meticulously put together with those cut and pasted letters from a magazine.
I know you've seen those in the past, movies or whatever.
The author stated that they would give themselves up in return for just 10 years behind bars.
That doesn't sound plausible.
Well, I never did see any two-way conversations between that person who mailed these articles and the police.
And I read a ton of articles on this, Beth, but I just never saw anything on how the police responded to that.
In all, more than 500 confessions and 60 hoaxes began coming in as well.
I mean, because, you know, there's always that copycat.
They weren't mailed in though.
Many were phone calls.
But can you imagine keeping up with this volume on such a high profile case?
No.
That's crazy.
Now, I don't really understand what people are thinking when they would call something in like this, Beth.
Is it their state of mind?
You know, I'm not a psychiatrist and I'll never understand that.
But even if they think they're being helpful, what possesses somebody to call in as a hoax or even to confess something that they didn't do?
That makes no sense to me.
It doesn't make any sense to me neither.
And I wonder if anybody today in today's age does that.
Yeah, that's a good question.
Because we never hear about this.
Yeah, like we never hear about the Loch Ness Monster or Bigfoot anymore.
No, we don't.
But we did recently hear about a UFO hovering over you.
Yes.
Yes, you did.
And that's a true story.
All right, even more tips came in offering a $10,000 US currency or 13,300 Canadian currency or 8,177 pound reward.
And for our listeners who are new, I know we have international, I believe we are being heard in about 84 countries.
So I am trying to give that so everybody can kind of think about the calculations in your head.
In today's time, Beth, that would equal $133,000 US dollars, $178,000 Canadian dollars and £109,000.
That's quite a bit of money.
So really between the amount of hoaxes produced by this case and the amounts of tipsters coming out of the woodwork,
really there's more harm than anything else that occurred here.
The police found themselves wasting tons of resources chasing these leads.
Obviously, you know, they could be putting their resources elsewhere, but they have to follow up on everything.
Yeah, and that obviously stops them from capturing the real criminal.
Absolutely.
One reputable tipster came forward to say that around 9 p.m. on January 14th, 1947, which was the night before Elizabeth was found,
he went to compost some grass clippings in the empty lot area when he witnessed a middle-aged,
medium-built man wearing a tan coat, a dark hat and driving a light colored 1935 sedan.
Oh.
So he possibly could have seen the killer, Beth.
This witness actually dropped off those grass clippings, but got in his car and circled the block to see what that man was up to again.
So as soon as he started approaching, the man got startled, jumped in his car and sped away.
That witness probably did see the killer.
Yes.
And isn't that something if he could have gotten a license plate number at least?
Yes, that's like a case we covered where the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby when the man in the gas station wrote down the license plate on the dollar bill.
Gosh, I forgot about that one.
Can't remember the season, the episode number you all, but you need to go listen to that, the Lindbergh kidnapping.
Over the next several months, police accumulated over 200 suspects, 75 from which came from that address book that was mailed to the examiner.
That's a lot of people.
It is.
With the amount of hoaxsters, they only made a handful of arrests based on obstruction of justice due to those false confessions.
Now, this is the interesting part.
In their investigation, Beth, police found concrete bags near Elizabeth's body and various articles of her clothing were distributed around town.
A few miles from where she was discovered, one of her shoes was found in a trash can.
Her empty purse was found but wiped down with gasoline to rid any fingerprints.
So there's definitely a pattern on that here.
Yeah, this is really interesting because I've never heard in a modern-day case about finding clothes miles away from the victim.
That is very strange.
It is.
I can't understand.
Well, maybe at the end here, we'll see what caused all this, but because I do forget the ending.
Well, the interesting thing too, like you said, I mean, everything is scattered all over town.
Did somebody just happen to be taking trash out and I guess there was probably enough information in the 31 consecutive days that the news reported on this
that they would have identified some of the articles of clothing because you remember we had a pretty good conversation about how Elizabeth was dressed the night before she disappeared or the night before she was found.
Right.
Yeah, I just think it's very odd that somebody would have taken the time to scatter her items around town for sure.
Well, an autopsy was performed on Elizabeth which included heavy and Beth, I mean heavy mutilation to her body.
I'm not going to actually mention everything that was done.
If you're interested, you can go look that up yourself.
But I will say she did have a Glasgow smile carved into her face in case our listeners don't know what that is.
It's like a Joker grin like you would see in a Batman movie.
She had that carved into her face and of course that hemicoporectomy that has separated her body into two pieces.
So the rest I'm going to just kind of leave alone.
It was evident though that Elizabeth had been sexually assaulted and interestingly enough there was no sperm present because I've said this once or twice.
The perpetrator wiped Elizabeth's body down with gasoline to get rid of any evidence.
That is just crazy.
I know.
Very methodical.
Very.
The cause of death was ruled as a hemorrhage caused by a concussion. So obviously Beth, she was hit over the head.
Most of her body mutilations were administered post-mortem including the separation of her body.
The medical examiner came to the conclusion that whoever did this to Elizabeth was a skilled professional due to the precision and clean cuts throughout and along Elizabeth's body.
There was very little bruising and the cuts were very, very neat.
So somebody knew exactly what they were doing.
Yes.
And it sounds to me like it's somebody who maybe has OCD that everything is precise.
Oh, yeah.
And definitely a vendetta against her.
They definitely went above and beyond.
I mean none of this was necessary.
No.
There were a few solid suspects that police felt fit the bill in Elizabeth's murder.
The man who occasionally stayed over at Elizabeth's apartment, he was the nightclub owner and police felt that he may have made some advances toward Elizabeth at some point but was rejected.
A bellhop at the hotel where she stayed at that Biltmore Hotel?
Mm-hmm.
They volunteered to discuss the case with a psychiatrist who was assigned to this case.
Interesting.
So he just thought he would come forward and say, hello doctor, if you have a moment, I'd love to have a conversation with you about this case.
A bellhop.
He claimed to be writing a book and was seeking information on Elizabeth.
Isn't that weird?
It is strange that a bellhop would be wanting to get involved in this case.
It would be.
However, I'm glad you said that because this bellhop previously worked as a mortician's assistant and according to biographics.org,
quote, showed intimate knowledge of the murder, unquote, which may have stemmed from working at a funeral home.
Hmm.
I know, right?
Now that's very interesting.
The bellhop just so random and randomly knowing having a funeral home experience.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, that fit right into the case for sure.
And they did look at him rather closely because according to the police, the bellhop seemed a little bit delusional and named another suspect who they didn't even believe existed because he was that odd.
The police believed the bellhop was the actual killer there for a hot minute and he suffered from a split personality.
Hmm.
That would be an interesting person to talk to, to say the least.
Well, the police set up what we today, Beth would call entrapment.
According to the biography channel, they lured the bellhop to a quote, gangster squad, unquote, who detained him to try to coerce a confession from him.
And long story short, the ploy did not work because the suspect the bellhop had named that the police didn't even believe existed turned out to be real.
Really?
Yep.
And guess what?
What?
The cops got slapped with a lawsuit.
Really?
Yep.
He knew what he was doing to a certain extent though.
Didn't he?
Clever.
Yeah.
Well, a passing acquaintance Elizabeth had met at the nightclub was also placed on the suspect list.
And this person was a doctor who had previously been convicted for assault with a deadly weapon for beating and torturing his secretary to death in a motel room.
Now, there is one more suspect on this list and the police placed this one at the very, very top only in the last couple of years, Beth.
Really?
Yeah.
None other than the suspect's son has done extensive research on the Black Dahlia case and firmly believes that his own father is responsible for her death.
Get out.
Yeah.
I'm surprised that the Black Dahlia was still being looked after.
Oh, well, let me tell you why.
Okay.
Back in 1949, a man named George Hodel came under suspicion for other assault and questionable deaths.
Hodel is said to have dated Elizabeth briefly before her death and may have acted in jealousy by killing her and mutilating her body.
Hodel was a known physician with a violent streak and may have sexually assaulted his own daughter and killed his secretary with a lethal overdose in a hotel room.
It seemed to be the trend back then, take people out in a hotel room.
Hodel was charged with crimes against his daughter, but was acquitted before he took off to the Philippines and then returned years later after marriage and divorce.
So he ends up back into the States. Hodel's son, Steve Hodel, is a retired LAPD detective.
How about that?
Well, that's interesting too.
Yeah.
A lot of interesting things in this case.
Yeah.
And see, I think that's one of the cool things that I like about these older cases, Beth, because they don't seem to go away.
People still look into these and even though this case happened 80 years ago, there's a lot more information to be said.
And people still make movies of these old cases.
Yeah, very interesting.
After his dad passed away in 1999, Steve and Hodel went through his father's personal belongings and found photographs of Elizabeth Short,
as well as some letters that match the handwriting of the letters that were sent to the newspapers that were covering the Black Dahlia case back in 1947.
Steve spent several years after his father died putting together a chronological list and even wrote a book called The Black Dahlia Avenger,
a true story, which was placed on the New York Times bestseller list in 2003.
That was cool.
Yeah.
Steve filed the Freedom of Information Act to retrieve FBI files on his father's case.
He also had an expert handwriting analyst compare George Hodel's handwriting with those letters sent to the examiner.
And the expert's opinion was that there is a strong likelihood that the samples were a match, but it could not be proved beyond reasonable doubt.
Steve analyzed receipts found in his father's belongings, which included a purchase for several concrete bags just days before Elizabeth's murder.
Do you remember that I mentioned that some concrete bags were found near her body?
Yes.
Yep.
He definitely sounds like the perpetrator.
Definitely.
There's a lot of similarities.
It's too bad we don't have DNA.
Exactly.
And who's going to just randomly buy concrete bags?
Exactly.
Well, that's about where we are at with the Black Dahlia.
It is still unsolved as of today.
Those are the suspects that have been named so far.
And that's it.
That's our first episode with you back on board.
It feels great to be back.
I love that you're back and I love that I get to tell you these old timey stories.
Yes.
How did I do?
I think you did really well.
Excellent.
Good.
So what's our teachable moment today?
Oh, goodness.
You know what?
I say take a chance.
I don't know about you, Beth, but when I was younger, I had a terrible fear of the unknown.
And really looking back, I feel like that was probably one of the reasons I never moved back to Canada.
Really?
Yeah.
I really feel that I had the fear of the unknown.
Oh, yes.
But take Elizabeth Short's path in life.
She moved from Massachusetts to California to Florida.
Go see the world.
It is a huge world out there.
And if you've never experienced it, I 100% at this point in my life, I know things change.
I think that age helps with maturity, but it also lets us not sweat the small stuff in life.
Go be an adventurist.
So that's really my teachable moment here, Beth.
Elizabeth took a chance.
Unfortunately, it did not work out for her in the end, but she lived her life.
She lived her best life, you know?
Yes.
So that's my teachable moment.
Age makes us wiser.
It sure does.
And that's a wrap.
That is a wrap.
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With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts.
We will talk to you all next week.