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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.

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Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.

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Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.

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Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Deb.

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And I'm Shelby.

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Welcome to episode number 52 of Dying to be Found.

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I love to say that this is a family thing.

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And yes, my daughter Shelby, who holds the same fascination of the criminal mind, is helping me finish out our season and grand finale.

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Woo!

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New sir audience popping here.

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For our new listeners, I personally have been spread out from family members my entire life.

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And for those who don't know me well, I live in Georgia, at least for now.

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Shelby's in the Carolinas.

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But we always come together every week to tell you stories that are left open to interpretation.

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If you have a storyline you want us to tell, click on the link tree in the show notes and you'll see all the different ways to get in touch with us.

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Absolutely.

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We'd love to hear your thoughts.

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Love to hear what you're interested in hearing about.

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Yes, especially going into season two, because we will definitely push down those episodes already got planned.

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If you guys want to hear something before we even air.

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So yeah, do that.

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Shelby on another note, we do have an excellent season ahead of us for sure.

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But today I want to give a shout out to Miranda for sending in this request.

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Today, we're going to be talking about J.C.

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Dugard, which was suggested a little while back and I really knew this story was going to be noteworthy for our season finale.

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So I hope I do this justice for you, Miranda.

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Thanks so much for listening and making sure I pronunciate J.C.'s last name correctly.

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Sometimes it's difficult.

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Thank you.

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J.C.

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Dugard is the story of an 11 year old girl, Shelby, who was ripped off the streets literally by a couple of Whackadoodles.

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While she was on the way to the bus stop as a parent,

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I was fortunate shelves because your bus stop was at the end of our driveway.

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And I would say my recollection is that I may have let you take the bus to the elementary school,

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but I was fortunate to drive you and your brother,

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Corey to school on my way to work for the majority of your childhood.

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I loved being in the car with you.

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I don't know how you felt about that.

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No, I remember that very well.

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It started I guess in sixth grade and then all the way through middle and high school.

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You did drive us to school until I could start driving.

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I do remember one time.

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I don't remember how old I was.

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I don't remember if Corey was even in school yet,

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but I had been getting off the bus one afternoon and I had to walk across the street to get to our driveway.

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So not a very far walk, but I remember a car.

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The bus had stopped.

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The lights were on.

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The stop sign was out and I was I guess getting ready to cross the road when somebody coming into the neighborhood

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had decided to just completely disregard the bus and drive around it.

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Right.

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And you were so mad.

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You were so mad.

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You literally got in your car and drove through the neighborhood to find that person.

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Do you remember that?

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Oh, yeah, I remember that.

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And I also remember your dad actually was the one that found the car.

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I think.

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Oh, I don't think I did that.

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I was on the porch.

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I was like, did you see what just happened?

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And yeah, he went ballistic.

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Statistically, Shelby, even today that happens all the time.

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Yeah, I believe it.

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I do bus driving myself and I have to do training every year.

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But that's one of the things that you have got to tell these kids.

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I mean, just because you're getting off the bus and the lights are turning on doesn't mean people are going to stop.

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Yeah, I don't know.

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I read a long time ago that even if you're speeding down the road to get to your destination,

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let's just say that you left your house a little late.

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Statistically, you're only going to get there maybe three minutes early.

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So even if you are on time and you're speeding, you're only going to get there three minutes early.

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So is it really worth it or beneficial?

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Absolutely not.

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But it's crazy with the amount of people that pass those buses with the lights on.

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Yeah, for sure.

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Do you get quality time in the car with your kids?

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I would say yes.

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But you know where we live, it takes five minutes or less to get anywhere.

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Can't even hardly finish one song when we're in the car.

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I love that.

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When I lived there, I was able to just, you know, go through a couple of traffic lights and I was at work already.

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Couldn't even get through a song on the radio.

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Like you said, what I liked about being in the car with you is, I don't know if you even know this,

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I strategically held those difficult conversations with you and Cory in the car.

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Like, I don't know, let's say the birds and the bees.

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And why? Because I knew you guys could not get out of the car.

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Those were the best times to hold those conversations.

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That sounds about right.

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Yeah.

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So listeners, if you are about to have the birds and bee talk with your child, do it in the car.

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They can't go anywhere.

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And make sure this day and age, make sure their technology is turned off.

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All right.

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Are you ready to get into our season finale?

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I'm ready.

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All right.

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On June 10th, 1991, Philip Guarido and his wife, Nancy snatched J.C. Lee Dugard off the streets of South Lake Tahoe, California,

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while she was making her way to the bus stop.

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J.C. later recalls taking her daily walk up a hill on the morning she was abducted

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and how she looked forward to going on a field trip that day.

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She remembers that she was wearing her favorite pink outfit with a little kitty cat on her shirt.

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Shelby, you'd appreciate that.

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And she had this really sweet butterfly ring that her mom had given her.

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So she was all dressed up for that field trip that day.

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J.C. heard a car approach as she continued her way to the bus stop.

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And without notice, a man shot his arm out the window as J.C. walked alongside the road.

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He used a stun gun on her to subdue her.

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Oh, wow.

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Where do you get a stun gun?

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Right.

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I bet that just has ruined field trips for the entire rest of her life,

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even when her kid, you know, the days her kids go on field trips.

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I bet that brings back just the worst memories.

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Oh, I bet it does.

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Yeah.

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Well, J.C. remembers feeling tingling and going numb all over her entire body.

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And then she just fell into some bushes.

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She remembers trying to get away, but said that her body simply would not work.

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J.C. was then dragged into a waiting vehicle.

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She was handcuffed, thrown onto the floorboard and covered with a blanket.

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She immediately heard a man laugh and telling whoever it was with him

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that he could not believe they had just gotten away with this.

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What psychos?

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I mean, what is it that they want with these young children?

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I know.

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It's a crazy world out there for sure.

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J.C. felt the terror as her captors cackled

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and she tried not to cry because Shelby, she knew those tears would make her face itch.

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She was handcuffed.

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She would not be able to scratch her own face.

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And that's what she was worried about.

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Right.

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The car sped off making its way to Antioch, California,

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a suburb just outside of San Francisco.

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And that's somewhere around 170 miles or 274 kilometers away from J.C.'s town of South Lake Tahoe.

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J.C.'s stepfather witnessed her abduction and immediately hopped on his bike to chase after the getaway car,

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but was unsuccessful in keeping up.

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That's got to be horrifying.

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Oh my gosh.

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Absolutely.

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Shelby, it kind of goes right back to what we were talking about with witnessing that car coming around the bus with the flashing lights.

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Same thing, you know, you have a car that just sped off.

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Yeah.

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That's got to be definitely something that weighed heavily on him, I'm sure.

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Yeah, for sure.

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At least he was a witness.

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He saw the car that had taken her, possibly, probably a very acute description of the people.

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Mm-hmm.

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And since there was a witness, they didn't have to wait that 24 hours to see if she came back.

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Right.

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Absolutely.

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Well, like you said, he was able to give police a partial description of the car, plus one of the people inside.

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The South Lake Tahoe community immediately sprung into action.

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Like you said, they did not wait that 24 hours and they did try to locate 11-year-old J.C.

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Police canvassed the area by talking to residents and bringing in several search dogs.

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Thousands of flyers were distributed and leads began flooding in,

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but Shelby, for the next 18 years, J.C. went missing without a trace.

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18 years.

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That is just crazy.

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So sad.

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Yeah.

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After arriving at the Garrido's home in Antioch, California, J.C. was lifted out of the car

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and she remembers somebody asked if she wanted something to drink.

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J.C. wasn't even sure who had asked this question.

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She did realize that there were two people involved in her kidnapping.

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The couple then proceeded to threaten to use the Taser on J.C. again if she ever tried to leave

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and they also told her that Doberman Pinschers were roaming the property and were trained to attack if J.C. ever tried to leave.

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This poor child from the get-go is already getting mental abuse, you know?

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Yeah, for sure.

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And Dobermans are not very nice dogs from what I can remember.

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No, they're pointy ears.

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Pointy-eared dogs have a little bit more aggression for sure.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I was chased after one one time when we were at Aunt Jamie's house.

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A Doberman?

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Yeah, I was running down the hill to the playground and their neighbor's dog, which was a Doberman,

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had, I guess, gotten a peek of me because I was running.

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I mean, I didn't notice the dog and I ended up running up on the slide and here comes Dad running after me

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and probably didn't do very nice things to the dog.

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Oh, yeah.

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Speaking of which, I did see two Dobermans one time I was working and I was at the front desk

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and I happened to look out the window and there were two Dobermans chasing after a cat and they caught it.

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Oh, no.

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Yeah, that was horrifying.

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Well, J.C. was led to a soundproof makeshift recording studio in the backyard, way in the backyard Shelby,

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and immediately was shackled inside.

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J.C. was ordered to choose a different name to go by and so she chose to go by the name Alyssa going forward.

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I'm not going to mention that name too much.

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I'm going to continue to call her J.C.

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but just for the purpose of her having to come up with a new name, that's what she chose to go by.

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Wow.

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I mentioned the couple who snatched J.C. from the bus stop that morning were Phillip and Nancy Garrido.

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Phillip was 60 years old.

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Nancy was 55.

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Something you should know is that Phillip was currently on parole for a 1976 rape conviction

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after kidnapping and sexually assaulting a woman.

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He had an earlier charge placed on him as well, but those charges did not stick.

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So he did have one rape conviction under his belt and Phillip was sentenced to 50 years in prison,

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but only ended up serving 11 years before he was released on parole.

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Isn't that crazy?

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I mean, I know that sometimes they put people out if they are on good behavior possibly due to overcrowding.

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Yeah, that's exactly what I was going to say.

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Mm-hmm.

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I don't even know the reasons behind why he was released so early, especially with something that violent.

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Yeah, for sure.

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After living in captivity for three years and enduring drug-induced rape sessions almost daily, Shelby,

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Jacey gave birth to her first of two children when she was just 14 years old.

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Wow.

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During her labor, Jacey was placed inside a room where Dr. Quinn, medicine woman, was playing on the TV set

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and she gave birth alone without medical assistance.

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Oh my gosh.

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I couldn't imagine.

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Mm-hmm.

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I know she had to be terrified.

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Three years later when she was 17, Jacey did this all over again when she gave birth to her second child.

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Wow.

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During a 2011 interview with Diane Sawyer, Jacey said obviously that she was terrified when she first gave birth,

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but the moment her baby was born, she absolutely fell in love and felt at least she wasn't alone anymore.

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As a parent, Shelby, I think we can all say that as soon as that baby is born,

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I mean that definitely changes the world, may not change the circumstances,

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but I'm sure that was probably, if anything, part of her saving grace to deal with what she had to endure

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for those years that she was held captive.

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Absolutely.

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It gave her something to live for, for someone to live for.

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Yeah.

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And she did say that someone belonged to her and she knew that she was able to protect from the burritos.

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Throughout those 18 years of captivity, Jacey did not once attempt to escape

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because she wanted to keep her children safe from the monsters, she said, that lived in the house.

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Now remember, she was outside.

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She wasn't outside the absolute entire time.

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She was kept in the house at least until the second baby was two years old,

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and that's when the burritos put everybody outside into those sheds.

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00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:10,400
And when I say outside, Shelby, they put him in such a spot in the backyard that they were really covered

236
00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:15,000
pretty well with trees and that building itself, like I said, was soundproof.

237
00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:17,900
So they were really, really sheltered back there.

238
00:14:17,900 --> 00:14:19,200
Yeah, that's interesting.

239
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:20,000
Mm-hmm.

240
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:27,400
Now, since Philip was a convicted rapist on probation, of course, he had a plan all worked out.

241
00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:32,700
Jacey was instructed that if she were in the house and anybody were to come to the door,

242
00:14:32,700 --> 00:14:39,600
like maybe a parole officer unannounced, Jacey and the children would quickly run outside to hide.

243
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,500
And that was pretty easy to do.

244
00:14:41,500 --> 00:14:47,300
If they were discovered inside the house, however, Jacey would tell them that it was perfectly okay

245
00:14:47,300 --> 00:14:52,700
for Philip to be around her children because, you know, and I know that as a sex offender,

246
00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:53,900
that's a big no-no.

247
00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:55,900
They just can't be around kids.

248
00:14:55,900 --> 00:14:56,600
Oh, yeah.

249
00:14:56,600 --> 00:15:00,600
In the event that Philip would be arrested for any reason,

250
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:06,800
Jacey was instructed to ask for a lawyer so that her lawyer could confer with Philip's lawyer

251
00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:11,700
and everyone could maintain lawyer-client confidentiality privileges.

252
00:15:11,700 --> 00:15:16,300
So basically, once you have a lawyer, you know, they can't say anything

253
00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:18,200
and nothing is going to be held against them, right?

254
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,100
Because it is, I mean, they just, it's all hush-hush after that.

255
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:25,100
So whatever they said could not be disclosed to the authorities.

256
00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:32,700
I do want to know though what Philip was doing besides exercising false imprisonment of a minor

257
00:15:32,700 --> 00:15:37,000
that he would even put so much thought into getting arrested one day.

258
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,000
I guess he's just what, crossing his t's and dotting his i's?

259
00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:41,600
Yeah, that's a very good question.

260
00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:48,000
After Jacey's youngest child did turn two, they were permanently put outside in the yard

261
00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:53,500
and they slept on the ground plus had a bucket to use as a toilet.

262
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:56,000
There were also some tents back there, Shelby.

263
00:15:56,000 --> 00:16:00,900
So, I mean, pick and choose, I suppose, where the kids are going to go.

264
00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:05,400
They could go into the tent, into the building, but they just couldn't go into the main house.

265
00:16:05,400 --> 00:16:07,300
Wow. I wonder why that is.

266
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:10,100
I mean, I guess less chance of being caught.

267
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:11,200
Yeah, that's true.

268
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:17,800
And for everyday life, Jacey took great care to teach her children everything she knew

269
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,600
despite her own fifth grade education.

270
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:27,000
She taught them reading, history, math and science and I thought this was pretty cool, Shelby.

271
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:32,900
Jacey knew enough about the stars and the constellations that she was teaching her kids

272
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:38,300
about the scientific aspect of it and she also taught them about plant life in the yard.

273
00:16:38,300 --> 00:16:41,600
I mean, very resourceful for a young, young person.

274
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:42,600
Absolutely.

275
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:48,000
Throughout the years, Jacey took to journaling and made daily entries into a notebook

276
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,500
to help her cope with her daily life.

277
00:16:50,500 --> 00:16:55,800
Clearly, she was an emotional rollercoaster because inside these journals, Shelby,

278
00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:02,100
there was evidence that Jacey was thinking about Phillip's feelings as well as her own.

279
00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:06,100
And in case you don't know this, that's called Stockholm syndrome

280
00:17:06,100 --> 00:17:11,000
because you're always taking your captor's feelings into consideration.

281
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,300
I don't know if you know much about that, Shelby.

282
00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:15,100
No, I really don't.

283
00:17:15,100 --> 00:17:18,900
Yeah, so I think I'm going to end up having one of these episodes,

284
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,100
but there was a lady named Patty Hearst.

285
00:17:22,100 --> 00:17:28,500
She was kidnapped in Stockholm and she ended up kind of going along the same lines

286
00:17:28,500 --> 00:17:29,800
of what her captors were doing.

287
00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,900
They were robbing banks.

288
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,500
She was part of that because she took, what's the word I'm looking for?

289
00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:40,600
She took, not pity, but she was so brainwashed that she felt compassion,

290
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,900
maybe is a word for that, towards her captors.

291
00:17:43,900 --> 00:17:50,500
But I will say this, expert psychiatrists do criticize this syndrome

292
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:56,000
because there has never been any research performed to validate how captive victims

293
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:57,600
do relate to their captors.

294
00:17:57,600 --> 00:17:58,800
And that's understandable.

295
00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,300
I have never seen any kind of research outcomes on that.

296
00:18:03,300 --> 00:18:04,300
So that makes sense.

297
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:05,800
It's not really been validated.

298
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:07,400
Yeah, no, I mean it does.

299
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:12,200
If you're with these people all the time, I mean, that's kind of who you know,

300
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:17,000
who you're around and I mean, I can certainly see how feelings could evolve.

301
00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:24,900
Throughout the years, the Geritos got comfortable taking JC on supervised outings in public,

302
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:30,000
but only after Philip and Nancy felt that they had pretty much scared JC

303
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:34,900
or threatened her enough into obeying them when they did have to go somewhere.

304
00:18:34,900 --> 00:18:37,200
That in itself, I mean, that's the Stockholm.

305
00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:41,700
I mean, they're comfortable with each other and they are going out into public.

306
00:18:41,700 --> 00:18:48,000
It kind of reminds me of the Elizabeth Smart case that we did where the captor also took

307
00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:53,900
Elizabeth out into public and the person never runs away because they do have some kind of connection.

308
00:18:53,900 --> 00:18:54,600
Right.

309
00:18:54,600 --> 00:18:59,200
Whether it's, you know, being threatened or I don't know.

310
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:05,200
I mean, in this case, I think JC was probably just looking out for the safety of her own children.

311
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:06,500
Yeah, absolutely.

312
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:15,300
We're going to jump ahead now to August 25th, 2009 where 18 years after JC was first abducted,

313
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:24,100
Philip, JC and her two kids were observed milling around the University of California on the Berkeley campus.

314
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:27,300
They were attempting to distribute religious literature.

315
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:33,400
Some university employees passing by felt that the younger girls were just that.

316
00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:40,200
They were absolutely too young even to be on a university campus and that the group itself

317
00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:45,400
that would be Philip, JC and the two girls were acting a little oddly.

318
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:51,500
Police were eventually called and two police officers took note of the group's odd behavior as well.

319
00:19:51,500 --> 00:19:54,500
And I'm not sure what behavior stood out.

320
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,000
I couldn't find any information on that shelves,

321
00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:02,900
but it was enough for the police to run a background check on Philip Guarido while they were questioning him.

322
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:05,600
This is when they discovered his criminal history.

323
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,700
That day Shelby, they didn't have any reason to hold him for anything.

324
00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:13,400
All he was doing was passing out literature, freedom of speech, right?

325
00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,400
But yes, he was being a nuisance.

326
00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:20,400
So they sent Philip, JC and the children on their way.

327
00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:25,900
Afterwards though, they promptly placed a call to Philip's parole officer

328
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:33,100
because Philip was a known sex offender who was being around children and who was in his presence.

329
00:20:33,100 --> 00:20:34,400
JC's two kids.

330
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:35,400
Wow.

331
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:43,800
The next day on August 26, 2009, Philip was ordered by his parole officer, do not stop go.

332
00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,400
You are to report to this office immediately.

333
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:54,600
He also ordered to bring along his wife plus the young woman and children that he was with the day before.

334
00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:01,800
Remember now the two police officers from that day witnessed two minors in his presence on University campus

335
00:21:01,800 --> 00:21:04,300
and likely questioned JC as well.

336
00:21:04,300 --> 00:21:10,700
But if you remember when I first told you when she was put in the backyard, she presumed the name Alyssa.

337
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:14,600
So I'm going to say she likely gave that name to the police that day.

338
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:19,100
Probably, but they might be starting to put two and two together now.

339
00:21:19,100 --> 00:21:24,600
I mean after 18 years, it's likely that they have what's it called?

340
00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:29,600
The technology where it ages missing children.

341
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:30,100
Yeah.

342
00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:30,600
Okay.

343
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:31,100
Yeah.

344
00:21:31,100 --> 00:21:32,600
That age progression.

345
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:33,100
Yes.

346
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:34,100
Age progression.

347
00:21:34,100 --> 00:21:34,900
Mm hmm.

348
00:21:34,900 --> 00:21:35,400
Yep.

349
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:36,200
Oh, that's true.

350
00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:38,600
I don't think I've ever seen one of those on her though.

351
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:46,100
It was during the parole meeting that JC now age 29 Shelby was separated from Philip

352
00:21:46,100 --> 00:21:53,100
and she was able to tell the parole officer what she had gone through for the past 18 years.

353
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:54,600
Wow.

354
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,600
Yeah, I know I have goosebumps.

355
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:57,600
Me too.

356
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:05,300
During this meeting, JC recalls being extremely hesitant to tell the parole officer her real name

357
00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:09,100
because she had used Alyssa for the last 18 years.

358
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:12,100
But I'm sure that she was coaxed a little bit.

359
00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:19,600
She eventually wrote her name down and she wrote JC Lee Dugard all in capital letters

360
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:23,600
and pushed it across the table toward the parole officer.

361
00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:27,100
And at that point, Shelby, she asked if she could see her mom.

362
00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:28,600
I am tearing up.

363
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:29,600
Me too.

364
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:31,100
This is oh my gosh.

365
00:22:31,100 --> 00:22:36,600
I just these stories, even though I researched them and I know what I'm about to tell Shelby,

366
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:42,100
I can't help just to be feeling a sense of overwhelming.

367
00:22:42,100 --> 00:22:44,100
It's just heartbreaking.

368
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:45,600
It's heartfelt.

369
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,600
It's just so many emotions going on right now.

370
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:49,600
Wow.

371
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:54,600
I can imagine Shelby, the officers were probably thinking the same thing at this time.

372
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:55,600
Yeah.

373
00:22:55,600 --> 00:23:00,600
As soon as JC asked that question, they emphatically told her yes.

374
00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,600
And what an amazing moment.

375
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,100
All right, now I'm crying.

376
00:23:06,100 --> 00:23:09,600
Well, let me just tell you, let's not forget about Philip here.

377
00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:11,600
He was being held in another room.

378
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:17,600
Obviously, after JC said who she was, he was immediately confronted by authorities.

379
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:21,600
And by the way, I don't mean to make you cry, but maybe I'm a good storyteller.

380
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:22,600
Who knows?

381
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,600
You are.

382
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:32,100
Obviously, the jig was up and he confessed to his crimes before he even left the parole office.

383
00:23:32,100 --> 00:23:33,100
All right.

384
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:35,600
Now, let's talk about the reunion.

385
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,600
By August 27th, 2009, JC was reunited with her mother.

386
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:47,600
And this was just three days after everyone was observed on that university campus, passing out literature.

387
00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:54,600
JC's mom admits that she and JC had a hard time readjusting when she first returned home.

388
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,600
But I want to emphasize that during an interview, her mom said, and I quote,

389
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:05,600
I knew that no matter how tough it was for all of us, I would never give up hope that we'd get through it.

390
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:12,600
Just like I knew I'd never give up hope of holding her in my arms again and telling her that I love her, unquote.

391
00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,600
Oh, that's sweet.

392
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:15,600
It is.

393
00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,600
I mean, that's family ties right there.

394
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,600
JC also reunited with other family members.

395
00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:33,600
One of her aunts fondly remembers that when JC returned home, they just sat around talking about their favorite foods and really not much about anything besides what they wanted to do for the day.

396
00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:40,600
Unfortunately, JC's mom and stepdad ended up divorcing after JC disappeared.

397
00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:45,600
But I do want to emphasize that JC's stepdad did reunite with JC.

398
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,600
And he was quoted as saying, I've gone through hell.

399
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,600
I mean, I'm a suspect up until yesterday, unquote.

400
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:59,600
So, yeah, he's the one that witnessed JC being dragged off in that car.

401
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,600
He's the one that chased her on the bike.

402
00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:04,600
And for 18 years, Shelby, he was a suspect.

403
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:05,600
Wow.

404
00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:07,600
That's got to be hard.

405
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,600
You know, they always look at the people closest to you.

406
00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:12,600
Oh, yeah, for sure.

407
00:25:12,600 --> 00:25:20,600
Yeah. Well, I mean, he had a good disposition because he also went on to say, quote, to have people in custody is a triple win.

408
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,600
It's like winning the lotto, unquote.

409
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:25,600
So, yeah, he had a lot of positivity.

410
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,600
I mean, at least he didn't have regrets or people could get bitter over the years.

411
00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:30,600
You know what I mean?

412
00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,600
Oh, for sure.

413
00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:38,600
But with him being the sole witness, you know, he knew what happened, even though other people were trying to point fingers at him.

414
00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:41,600
I mean, he had no guilt on him whatsoever.

415
00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:42,600
He saw what happened.

416
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:44,600
So that makes sense to me.

417
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:47,600
Yeah. And I'm so glad that they reunited.

418
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:48,600
Me too.

419
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,600
JC and her children were given a medical examination after their rescue.

420
00:25:53,600 --> 00:25:56,600
None of them appeared malnourished, which is good.

421
00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:10,600
When going to the Garrido's home during the investigation, authorities found a primitive campsite on the property that I had mentioned was so well hidden that even if you walked in the backyard,

422
00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,600
Shelby, you wouldn't have even known it was there.

423
00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:14,600
Wow.

424
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:29,600
In fact, the Garrido's were visited by Phillips parole officer at least 60 times and the parole officer never noticed children present on the property, nor the makeshift camp in the backyard.

425
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:36,600
I will say this neighbors at some point had reported that they had seen children in their backyard.

426
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,600
I don't know if they reported that to the parole officer or who they had mentioned that to.

427
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:50,600
So, you know, unless they did a thorough investigation, then the Garrido's did a pretty good job of keeping everybody hidden.

428
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:51,600
They sure did.

429
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:56,600
Now, I don't know what happens when a parole officer goes to check on the parolees.

430
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,600
Maybe that'd be a good question for Cory to answer.

431
00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:05,600
If they're not really searching, then they weren't really bound to find it, you know?

432
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,600
Yeah.

433
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:07,600
And they would have to have reason.

434
00:27:07,600 --> 00:27:09,600
It's kind of like a search warrant.

435
00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:14,600
They can't just, you know, start milling all over without a reasonable doubt, I guess.

436
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:15,600
Yeah.

437
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:18,600
Too bad somebody hadn't tried to record the children back there.

438
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:21,600
You know, that could have changed everything a lot quicker.

439
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:22,600
Oh, gosh.

440
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,600
Are you ever spot on with that?

441
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:26,600
Absolutely.

442
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:27,600
All right.

443
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:34,600
Well, obviously, JC would spend quite a long time recuperating from her 18 years in captivity.

444
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:43,600
She mentioned that it's very easy to take things for granted, but her experience gave her an appreciation for the small things in life.

445
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,600
I know that we can easily take for granted some of those things.

446
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:54,600
On some days, JC says she struggles from being overly cautious or wary of others.

447
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:55,600
Understandable.

448
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,600
And I'll give you an example.

449
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:10,600
She had taken a trip to New York at some point to receive an award and she found herself unable to enjoy the city as much as she would have liked because she was constantly on guard.

450
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:11,600
You've been to New York.

451
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,600
I've been to New York.

452
00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:15,600
We know how populated it is.

453
00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,600
So I'm sure she was looking over her shoulder.

454
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:22,600
Oh, there are so many people.

455
00:28:22,600 --> 00:28:23,600
All right.

456
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:35,600
And then let's see, JC even felt during one of her cab rides that the ride was taking too long and even began wondering where the cab driver may be taking her to.

457
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,600
That is a flashback.

458
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,600
It's so hard.

459
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:40,600
Absolutely.

460
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:52,600
And I'm just wondering, you know, if somebody sent her there to receive an award, why wouldn't they have given her bodyguard security, a private car to take her back and forth?

461
00:28:52,600 --> 00:28:57,600
I mean, I don't understand why they didn't give her that extra protection.

462
00:28:57,600 --> 00:29:01,600
I mean, 18 years of, you know, after being kidnapped.

463
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:03,600
Oh, yeah, you are right.

464
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,600
That's always going to be a thought through her head.

465
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,600
And I'm sure they had to, I don't know.

466
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:08,600
I don't know.

467
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:09,600
That's that's my thought.

468
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:17,600
Why didn't they provide her with more personal support rather than just having her, you know, hop in a cab in the middle of New York City?

469
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,600
So true.

470
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:23,600
I didn't see any reasons for that when I was doing my research shelves.

471
00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:28,600
The only thing I can say is maybe she was offered it and she rejected it, but I don't know.

472
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:30,600
Oh, that's possible.

473
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:42,600
Well, much of the journaling that JC documented during her captivity became a checklist or what we would call a bucket list these days of the things that she wanted to accomplish during her lifetime.

474
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,600
And one of these things was to see her mother again.

475
00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,600
Oh, I bet that was the best one.

476
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:49,600
That was probably at the very top of her list.

477
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:51,600
I'll bet it was.

478
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,600
And for her mother to meet her grandkids too.

479
00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,600
Gosh, I can goosebumps.

480
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:12,600
JC continued to check items off that bucket list, which included seeing the pyramids in Belize, going up in a hot air balloon, learning how to drive, which Shelby, I thought this was really cool.

481
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:15,600
Her younger sister taught her how to do that.

482
00:30:15,600 --> 00:30:17,600
Isn't that cool?

483
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:19,600
Wow.

484
00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:21,600
Oh, I know.

485
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,600
JC also went swimming with dolphins, rode on a passenger train.

486
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,600
Oh my gosh.

487
00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:29,600
I have to stop right there.

488
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:34,600
If you have never had the experience to take a passenger train, do it.

489
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,600
It may take you a little bit longer to get there.

490
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:38,600
Never done it.

491
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:39,600
Holy cow.

492
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:40,600
The space.

493
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,600
And that's what Aunt Beth typically does, right?

494
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,600
When she goes to see Sarah.

495
00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:46,600
Yeah, she does.

496
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,600
Hi, Sarah.

497
00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,600
Hi, Adam.

498
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:53,600
Hi, everyone in our family.

499
00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:55,600
Hello.

500
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,600
If you're listening, I don't think everybody's listening.

501
00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,600
So yeah, JC took a passenger train.

502
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,600
She went sailing.

503
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:06,600
She went horseback riding and even wrote a book or two.

504
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:16,600
After living in captivity for 18 years, then putting the pieces of her fractured life back together again, Shelby, JC wrote two books.

505
00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:21,600
Her first book was titled A Stolen Life, which was written in 2011.

506
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:28,600
And the second book was written in 2016, which is titled Freedom, My Book of Firsts.

507
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,600
Wow.

508
00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:31,600
Oh, that's so cool.

509
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,600
Yeah, I'd like to get copies of those.

510
00:31:33,600 --> 00:31:34,600
I'd love to read them.

511
00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:35,600
Uh-huh.

512
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:40,600
And then the third book is called The Jace Foundation.

513
00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:46,600
JC has also gone on to be a public speaker advocating for victims' rights.

514
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:55,600
She began working with law enforcement to create more victim-focused programs and started the Jace Foundation.

515
00:31:55,600 --> 00:32:04,600
And that's J-A-Y-C, which stands for Just Ask Yourself to Care to help those who have been abused or traumatized in similar experiences.

516
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:14,600
She also started a group called The Jace Foundation, which is a group of women who have been abused or traumatized by women.

517
00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:19,600
They're also doing online therapy in addition to traditional therapy.

518
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,600
And Shelby, this is such a good cause.

519
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:29,600
I spent some time looking through the Jace Foundation website, and they do a lot of wonderful things.

520
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:31,600
I'm going to go ahead and add that link to the website.

521
00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,600
Shelby, I'm going to add that link to the website.

522
00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:38,600
And then the third book is called The Jace Foundation.

523
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:44,600
She and her family used equine therapy throughout their own healing process.

524
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:46,600
Shelby, do you know what equine therapy is?

525
00:32:46,600 --> 00:32:47,600
I do not.

526
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,600
It's using horses as therapy.

527
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:51,600
Oh, wow.

528
00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:56,600
I've heard really wonderful things about that, and I've known that there are a lot of...

529
00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,600
Me personally, I can see that. I mean, I love animals, and horses are my favorite animal.

530
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:10,600
I would absolutely love to work on a farm and be able to help people overcoming emotional issues, you know?

531
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:11,600
Oh, yeah.

532
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:17,600
Jacey was able to move on and purchase her own home for her and her children.

533
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:25,600
She enrolled her daughters in a real school, and now I believe at this point, Shelby, they may have finished college.

534
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:34,600
And they were also able to adopt pets that Phillip, throughout the 18 years, would always threaten to take away from Jacey.

535
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:35,600
Really?

536
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,600
Yep. So she adopted her own pets.

537
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:42,600
She's living, I guess, what we could say, what we would see as a normal life.

538
00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:50,600
I'm sure she still has a ton of things that she deals with on a daily basis, but from an outsider looking in, it's just a normal existence, you know?

539
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:51,600
Absolutely.

540
00:33:51,600 --> 00:34:10,600
All right. Jacey eventually filed a $20 million lawsuit claiming physical, emotional, and psychological damages under the pretense that Phillip Garrido's federal parole officers failed to properly manage and supervise him as a registered sex offender.

541
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:30,600
She was originally awarded a settlement, but the United States Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals ruled against this lawsuit, stating that, quote, holding the government responsible would lead to endless liability for those federal agents who have dangerous people in their care and supervision, unquote.

542
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,600
Wow.

543
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:34,600
I know. I'm on the fence with that one.

544
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:41,600
You're going to just say one case here is going to lead to endless liability. I mean, that's not taking accountability at all.

545
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:42,600
No.

546
00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:55,600
Judge John B. Owens, who oversaw the case, wrote a 44-page document that stated, quote, while our hearts are with Ms. Dugard, the law is not, unquote.

547
00:34:55,600 --> 00:35:06,600
So he's a judge. He kind of has to follow the rules, and that's his job to oversee and literally interpret the law, not the emotion. Does that make sense?

548
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:08,600
Very much so. Yeah, that makes sense.

549
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:37,600
I know everybody here is wondering what J.C. had to say about her experiences during the 18 years in captivity. I'm really not going to spend a ton of time here because J.C. is doing extremely well today, but I do want to give you a brief insight as to some of her experiences made from an 11-year-old girl who spent 18 years under the influence of what I like to say, Shelby, is two wackadoodles.

550
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:39,600
And what they can do to someone's psyche.

551
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:44,600
I know. I've heard you and Beth talk about that.

552
00:35:44,600 --> 00:36:00,600
Even with the dysfunction that she felt while in captivity, J.C. was paralyzed with fear of the unknown, obviously. She was 11 years old, which is one of the reasons that she never attempted to escape, especially after she had two children.

553
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:13,600
Much of this fear is what the Garrido's planted in her head about it being a big bad world out there, and she didn't want to go outside the perimeters of the house that she was being held at.

554
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:28,600
And we didn't really talk much about Nancy Garrido, Phillip's wife, but during one of her interviews, J.C. said that she had a very strange relationship the entire time she was there, emphasizing that Nancy was very, very jealous.

555
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:36,600
Phillip and Nancy Garrido both pled guilty to 29 felony counts, including kidnapping, rape, and false imprisonment charges.

556
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:43,600
Because they pled guilty, J.C. was not required to appear in court to face her captors.

557
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:48,600
She did exercise her privileges, however, to write a letter to them instead.

558
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:53,600
And I had mentioned J.C.'s journaling that she had done while she was in captivity.

559
00:36:53,600 --> 00:37:09,600
Although she did not appear in court during their sentencing, J.C. did write a victim statement, which read, quote, I chose not to be here today because I refuse to waste another second of my life in your presence.

560
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:21,600
Everything you did to me was wrong, and I hope one day you will see that. I hated every second of every day for 18 years. You stole my life and that of my family, unquote.

561
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:29,600
J.C. closed by saying that she was doing well and the Garedos did not matter to her anymore. Good for her.

562
00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:31,600
Wow, I have goosebumps.

563
00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:39,600
Phillip received 431 years in prison. Nancy only received 36 years to life.

564
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:45,600
As part of their plea deal, both defendants waived their rights to appeal for any of their sentencing.

565
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,600
Geez. Let's hold on. I'm sorry. Hold on.

566
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,600
Okay, no problem.

567
00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:58,600
All right, you all. Shelby has walked away. Let me give you a story because that's what Deb does.

568
00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,600
She tells stories about her family members when they walk away.

569
00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:12,600
Um, all right. Let's talk about the fact that Shelby hates, and I mean absolutely hates, for me to pick out her clothes from the age of three.

570
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:21,600
She went to a concert once, and I think it was the Backstreet Boys. I went out, got her this fantastic outfit that I thought was pretty cool,

571
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:28,600
but not only was she ticked off that she had to wear it, but you can see it in the picture that she had with the Backstreet Boys.

572
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:32,600
And to this day, I can't live that down. Here she comes. Hi.

573
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,600
Hi.

574
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,600
Shelby, do you remember the Backstreet Boys concert?

575
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:47,600
Absolutely. I was just wearing my Backstreet Boys shirt. That's what I wore to Pa's 95th birthday yesterday, and we listened to the song,

576
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:51,600
Everybody. Yeah. Yeah.

577
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,600
We listened to that song on the way there.

578
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,600
That's amazing. What do you remember about the concert?

579
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:05,600
I got to meet them, and I was in like second grade, and you dressed me terribly.

580
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,600
Why? What did you not like about that outfit?

581
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:20,600
Well, I had my shirt tucked in. I had, you know, these jeans on. They were decent. I was wearing these jeans, sparkly shoes that I absolutely hated.

582
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:28,600
And then I had my hair up in one of those, what's called, what they call claw clips today. So that's back in.

583
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:35,600
I don't know. Maybe if I can, I've got that picture where my picture with them. I don't know if you can post that on the page, but yeah.

584
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:45,600
I totally, I met them when I was in second grade, and I was in love with Nick Carter, and he literally like touched my hair in the picture and is making a funny face.

585
00:39:45,600 --> 00:39:52,600
So yes, I met the Backstreet Boys, and I was in the 13th row. Thank you, Amber, for taking me.

586
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:56,600
That's amazing. And thanks, Mom, for that awesome outfit.

587
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,600
Yes. Thanks, Mom, for that awesome outfit.

588
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:01,600
I bet you hated so much.

589
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:02,600
I did.

590
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,600
All right. This is my last thought regarding this case.

591
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:32,600
J.C. stated during an interview that she and her two children share a story together whenever they feel the need to reflect on their captivity. Because J.C. was not the only one being held captive here, Shelbs, her children were as well. Whenever the need arises, they recite the following, quote, Once upon a time, there was a mom and two daughters, and they lived with a crazy person for a really long time.

592
00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:42,600
And then they came out of the backyard, and there were ups and there were downs, and they met a whole lot of amazing people, and they lived their life, unquote.

593
00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,600
Oh my gosh.

594
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:47,600
I have goosebumps again.

595
00:40:47,600 --> 00:40:49,600
Me too. Oh my gosh.

596
00:40:49,600 --> 00:41:02,600
I mean, honestly, if you're going to get a good story out of a bad situation, this has got to be it. Then this Miranda, my dear listener, this is why I saved this for the finale.

597
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,600
Yes, thank you so much. This was a great one.

598
00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:30,600
What is our teachable moment for today? Well, Shelbs, age 11 seems like a reasonable age to let your children walk to the bus stop unshaperoned. I did the same thing when I was that age, but I also had two sisters and a whole lot of kids in the neighborhood that would come outside around the same time every day to meet up at the community mailbox around the corner.

599
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:45,600
And I don't ever remember letting you stand outside at the end of our driveway by yourself. Usually, Shelby, what I would do is we wait for the bus to come into the neighborhood and time it just right so as it was pulling up, you'd be going down the driveway as the bus pulled up.

600
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:58,600
Do you remember that? I do. Yeah. Well, even today, even today I pass other people on my drive into work, and I do see them standing in their driveway with their kids waiting for the bus.

601
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:12,600
So my teachable moment today is to say that it takes just one time for someone to slow down and talk to or entice a child left alone, even if it's in their own driveway.

602
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:20,600
Do you want to see a puppy? Do you want some candy? Hey, I've got a really cool video game at home. Want to come with me?

603
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:35,600
Absolutely. And sometimes it happens way too close to home. I remember there was one time she's my oldest who had been out in the front yard and was just doing flips. It was a beautiful summer day. It was warm outside.

604
00:42:35,600 --> 00:42:51,600
You know, she was maybe eight or nine at the time, and I was I just happened to be standing in the backyard talking with my neighbor and we saw a truck pull up and stop and start talking to her.

605
00:42:51,600 --> 00:43:00,600
And as soon as I saw this, you know, I'm making a beeline to the front yard. Who was talking to my kid? You have no reason to be talking to my kid.

606
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:07,600
And the closer that I got, the truck ended up pulling off. And when I asked, what is this man saying to you? It was an older man.

607
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:16,600
And maybe he didn't have bad intentions. But the fact that he just pulled off when I was walking up gave me a very uneasy feeling.

608
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:26,600
But she, you know, she had said that he had just mentioned, oh, his daughter used to do gymnastics. And that was one of the one of the scariest things.

609
00:43:26,600 --> 00:43:35,600
I mean, like I said, maybe he didn't have bad intentions, but it's like, really? Why would you pull up to an eight or nine year old girl and just say that?

610
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:38,600
Like, just go on with your day. There's no reason for that.

611
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:47,600
No, and there wasn't. You're right. I mean, he could have had that memory as he kept on driving past her. He didn't need to stop and say something to her. So, yeah.

612
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:48,600
Yeah, exactly.

613
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:54,600
I was going to say too, I mean, obviously kids don't have that spidey sense that you had that day.

614
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:56,600
No, no.

615
00:43:56,600 --> 00:44:02,600
Especially when they're probably like you said, Shelby, at that tween age mark. They just don't have that yet.

616
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:12,600
So teach them a moment here. Bundle yourself up. I don't care if it's raining, if it is cold outside, get yourself out to the bus stop to the end of the driveway.

617
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,600
Give the bus driver a friendly wave as they pick up your child.

618
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:25,600
I think, Shelby, I know from experience that they are just as protective about your child as you are. So that's my teachable moment.

619
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:26,600
That's a good one.

620
00:44:26,600 --> 00:44:27,600
Thanks.

621
00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:38,600
Kids don't understand, or my kids don't always understand why I don't like them in the front yard by themselves, but when they get older and they have their own kids, they will completely understand.

622
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:43,600
Might be mad at you for 10 minutes or so, but better than 18 years without them.

623
00:44:43,600 --> 00:44:45,600
Oh gosh, yes. Absolutely.

624
00:44:45,600 --> 00:44:48,600
Well, that's the story of JC Dugard.

625
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:56,600
We would love to receive feedback from our listeners on what you have to say about this case or any other episode.

626
00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:00,600
Be sure to DM us on Instagram and tell us what you think.

627
00:45:00,600 --> 00:45:01,600
We'd love to hear your thoughts.

628
00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,600
Absolutely.

629
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:03,600
Okay, Shelbs.

630
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:23,600
Well, guess what? Not only is this a wrap, but this wraps up our very last episode of our very first season of Dying to be Found. And we cannot thank you enough for the storyline requests, your support, DMs, likes, shares, reviews, and all that jazz over our first year.

631
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:39,600
I know I've said it a few times, but we have an awesome season two coming up. Be sure to check that out as we revamp, rework, and redesign versions of Dying to be Found, including our new bonus episodes called The Dash.

632
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:48,600
I'm not one to ask for too much from our listeners, but if you like what you hear, consider buying us a coffee by clicking on the link in our show notes.

633
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,600
And there you have it, Shelbs.

634
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:52,600
What a fun year.

635
00:45:52,600 --> 00:45:55,600
Thank you so much for letting me be a part of this.

636
00:45:55,600 --> 00:46:01,600
Absolutely. Thanks for agreeing to jump on board. I'm loving every minute of it.

637
00:46:01,600 --> 00:46:08,600
Me too. Alrighty. Well, bye guys. Thank you for a great year. You are the reason why we're here.

638
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,600
Absolutely. We will talk to you soon.

639
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:24,600
Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found.

640
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:33,600
You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking on our Linktree account found in our show notes.

641
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:41,600
If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at BuyMeACoffee.com slash Dying to be Found spelled just like you see it on our logo.

642
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:46,600
Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing or if you'd like a sticker.

643
00:46:46,600 --> 00:47:07,600
With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. We will talk to you all next week.