1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,040 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:12,340 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 3 00:00:12,340 --> 00:00:18,560 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,200 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,080 Hi everyone, I'm Deb. 6 00:00:26,080 --> 00:00:27,200 And I'm Shelby. 7 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,240 And Shelby, I can already tell you feel better. 8 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:32,480 I feel so much better. 9 00:00:32,480 --> 00:00:34,480 Good, good, good. I'm so glad. 10 00:00:34,480 --> 00:00:38,880 So much better. I think I might have had a strand of the flu or something. 11 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:42,000 I don't know. I was not doing so well last week. 12 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:43,920 Oh, well, welcome back. 13 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:44,960 Thank you. 14 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:49,360 We are on episode number 49 of Dying to be Found. 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:57,280 And if you, our listener, have hung out with us this long, you are just as amazing as my sweet daughter, Shelby. 16 00:00:57,280 --> 00:01:02,880 And Shelbs, I'm so glad you're here today to help me wind down season one. 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,760 We only have two more episodes. 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,600 Wow, that is so awesome. 19 00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,680 It is. And I couldn't do without you. 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:14,000 So and I can't think of a better person to help me out during these months, Shelby. 21 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:15,280 It has been cold. 22 00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:16,480 It has been dreary. 23 00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:22,960 I'm under a blanket right now, but it's just one of those really good days to just be under the blanket and watch old movies. 24 00:01:22,960 --> 00:01:24,080 Oh, yeah. 25 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:26,080 So I'm excited that you're here. 26 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:26,560 Thank you. 27 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:30,160 It's very rainy and dark and cold here today, too. 28 00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:33,920 I walked out of work at five o'clock this afternoon and it looked like it was seven. 29 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:39,520 I know. As soon as that sun goes down, I'm a hibernator in the wintertime. 30 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:41,120 It feels like 10 o'clock already. 31 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:44,640 And the sun's only been down for probably 45 minutes. 32 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:45,920 And it feels like 10 o'clock. 33 00:01:45,920 --> 00:01:46,560 Right. 34 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:47,360 Isn't that crazy? 35 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:47,840 Yes. 36 00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:48,320 Yeah. 37 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:50,560 All right, shelves, I have a question for you. 38 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:52,560 And as always, I have an answer. 39 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,560 I don't really remember this. 40 00:01:56,560 --> 00:02:00,160 Did you go to the prom a lot, even in your senior year? 41 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:03,520 I mean, I don't really remember you going to the prom. 42 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:04,560 I did. 43 00:02:04,560 --> 00:02:06,560 I did my senior year, but that's it. 44 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,760 I wasn't impressed. 45 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:08,560 Just one time? 46 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,760 Yes, I wore a twenty dollar dress. 47 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:15,520 With a lot of jewelry. 48 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:19,520 It was fun for a little while and then I was gone. 49 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:20,160 There you go. 50 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:21,920 I think most people feel that way. 51 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:23,840 You go in, you check everybody out. 52 00:02:23,840 --> 00:02:26,320 They have lovely clothes on and then you leave. 53 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:27,520 You make your appearance. 54 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,720 Yeah, that's right. 55 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:30,880 OK, I don't even know you if you know this. 56 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,240 Back in my day, it was a really big thing to go to the prom. 57 00:02:34,240 --> 00:02:36,160 Like you had to go to the prom. 58 00:02:36,160 --> 00:02:37,520 That was everything. 59 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,360 If you were not a cool kid, if you did not go to the prom. 60 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:42,880 Oh, we did. 61 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:48,400 We dressed up in those old timey down to the floor. 62 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:53,760 They look like Gone with the Wind dresses and we just had a really good time. 63 00:02:53,760 --> 00:03:00,080 I remember seeing pictures of you in a few different dresses because I know you went 64 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:01,520 to several different proms. 65 00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:03,280 You went to way more than I did. 66 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:03,760 I did. 67 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,080 I went to four in one year. 68 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:06,720 Wow. 69 00:03:06,720 --> 00:03:07,760 Oh my gosh. 70 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:14,320 I remember you had this pink one and it was, you know, obviously wasn't fitting me at the 71 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,360 time, but it was one that you would let me try on. 72 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,880 Oh my gosh. 73 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:20,000 I forgot about that. 74 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:21,920 That was in your dress up box. 75 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:22,420 Yes. 76 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,600 Yeah, I didn't go to proms just because I had four different boyfriends. 77 00:03:27,600 --> 00:03:32,960 I went because we were just a group of friends that would just go out and spend a lot of 78 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:33,920 time together. 79 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:35,280 It was so much fun. 80 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:37,120 I just love that era. 81 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:37,600 Yeah. 82 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:38,320 I do too. 83 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,800 I think if I lived during that time, I would have gone. 84 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,240 I feel like as the years go on, the shorter the dresses get. 85 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:47,680 Yeah, but they are getting along again, believe it or not. 86 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,720 They're trends, but right now they are getting along again. 87 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:52,800 I did see some people floor length. 88 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:56,400 They're really definitely not the Gone with the Wind, really puffy. 89 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,520 You have to wear those, what do you call those, coily things? 90 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:00,640 What do you call those? 91 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,120 Oh, the little underskirt things. 92 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:03,620 Yeah. 93 00:04:04,160 --> 00:04:04,640 Yeah. 94 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:08,080 I can't remember what those are called, but I totally would have gone to four different 95 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:10,000 proms if that's how they dressed when I went. 96 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:15,040 Oh, goodness. 97 00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:17,520 Well, we're going to talk about the Pelley family today. 98 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:25,040 It's a blended family living in Lakeville, Indiana, who unfortunately, Shelby, were brutally 99 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:33,520 murdered in 1989 just as Jeff Pelley, the eldest son, had made plans to go to the prom. 100 00:04:33,520 --> 00:04:37,120 It was on prom night that everything happened back in 1989. 101 00:04:37,120 --> 00:04:38,240 Oh, yeah. 102 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:40,560 I'm going to tell you a little bit about Jeff. 103 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:49,280 He is the oldest and he was born on December 10th, 1971 to Ava Joy and Bob Pelley. 104 00:04:49,280 --> 00:04:54,160 He and his younger sister, Jackie, grew up in Cape Coral, Florida, 105 00:04:54,160 --> 00:04:57,280 where Bob was a computer program and a pastor. 106 00:04:57,280 --> 00:05:03,840 Now, Bob raised the family with strong Christian upbringing, but unfortunately, 107 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:12,000 Shelbs, Joy died of cancer in February of 1985 when her son, Jeff, was just 14 years old. 108 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:12,800 That's tough. 109 00:05:13,440 --> 00:05:15,760 Oh, cancer is a terrible thing. 110 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:16,720 That is tough. 111 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:17,220 Yeah. 112 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:20,400 I don't know what I would do if I lost a parent that young. 113 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:27,760 Well, just nine months later, Bob remarried a woman named Dawn who came into the family 114 00:05:27,760 --> 00:05:29,600 with three daughters of her own. 115 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:34,560 So Jeff, who was 14 years old, had just lost his mother and almost immediately, 116 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:37,920 just nine months later, he was thrown into a blended family. 117 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:40,800 I know that in itself is a transition. 118 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:42,560 That was very fast. 119 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,800 It was, but you know, there are people who just can't live alone. 120 00:05:47,520 --> 00:05:49,120 And I don't know if you know that, 121 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:53,200 but there are definitely some personality types of people that just have to have somebody. 122 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,720 And Dawn's girls were Jesse, Janelle, and Jolene. 123 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:01,680 And these girls were very young, but I'll tell you a little bit about that 124 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,440 because I'm really bad at math and I'll try to do some calculations in just a little bit. 125 00:06:07,440 --> 00:06:18,400 Now, in late 1986, Bob abruptly moved the family 1,238 miles away, or 1,992 kilometers, 126 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:24,320 from Lake Coral, Florida to Lakeville, Indiana, where Bob became a pastor of a very small 127 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,520 community church that was called the Olive Branch. 128 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:33,520 And Shelby, get this, back in 1986, the church itself only had 50 members. 129 00:06:33,520 --> 00:06:36,320 And that in itself, I'm going to say is pretty darn small. 130 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:36,960 Very. 131 00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:41,200 And just to give you a perspective on where they moved to between these two towns, 132 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:44,400 I wanted to kind of tell you what the population is today. 133 00:06:44,400 --> 00:06:50,800 And this is in 2023, or at least in the last census, Lake Coral, Florida has a population 134 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:53,840 of 850,000 people. 135 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:55,280 Wow, that's a lot. 136 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:57,200 It is. Yeah, that's pretty big. 137 00:06:57,200 --> 00:07:04,160 And Lakeview, Indiana has 960, less than 1,000 people in the population. 138 00:07:04,160 --> 00:07:06,320 That is a huge difference. 139 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:11,280 And I think that's probably smaller than the town you live in, my dear. 140 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,320 Pretty significantly. 141 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Mm-hmm. 142 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:19,040 I know that when I lived in North Carolina, this town here of Lakeview, Indiana is just 143 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:23,520 one quarter of the size of the town that I lived in when I lived in North Carolina. 144 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:29,680 So I imagine there's probably a little bit of a culture shock for the kids moving so far. 145 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:33,120 Maybe not for the younger ones, but definitely for Jeff. 146 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:40,320 He's a teenager, he's hormonal, he just moved schools, he moved far, far away from what he 147 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:41,440 was used to. 148 00:07:41,440 --> 00:07:42,640 He lost his mother. 149 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:44,480 He had a lot going on. 150 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,600 Yeah. Oh, I couldn't imagine at that age. 151 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:52,160 Yeah. And honestly, Shelbs, that's pretty similar to my circumstances when I moved from 152 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,160 Canada. I had a lot going on too. 153 00:07:54,160 --> 00:07:56,960 And a lot of this, I'm going to say is somewhat similar. 154 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:01,360 And I was thrown into a blended family, moved very far away. 155 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:02,720 Your mother turned out okay. 156 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,480 Or at least I think I turned out okay. 157 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:10,480 Well, I'm going to talk about Jeff and his adult life because after he graduated from 158 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:16,000 high school, so he was 14 when he moved there, he was probably in ninth or 10th grade. 159 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:21,760 And so he probably just had three years in Indiana because he decided as an adult, he 160 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:27,280 graduated from high school and he moved back to Florida and he followed in his dad's footsteps, 161 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:32,560 actually, because if you remember, I had told you his dad was a computer programmer and 162 00:08:32,560 --> 00:08:38,320 Jeff also got into the techie business by becoming a computer consultant for IBM. 163 00:08:38,320 --> 00:08:38,960 Right. 164 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:40,640 Yeah. So life went on. 165 00:08:40,640 --> 00:08:46,960 He seemed to be very well-rounded until the day that Jeff was arrested in 2002 at the 166 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:51,120 age of 30 for the murder of his family members. 167 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:52,880 Oh, that just gave me goosebumps. 168 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:59,360 Yeah. Now, Shelby, I do believe that his sister is still alive, his blood sister, but the 169 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:05,520 step-family did not make it out, his dad, his stepmother and his two stepsisters. 170 00:09:05,520 --> 00:09:07,280 So we're going to rewind a little bit. 171 00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,080 We're going to go back to when Jeff was in high school. 172 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:16,880 On April 30th, 1989, Jeff's dad, Bob, failed to show up at the church one day where he 173 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:21,760 was a pastor and he had a sermon to speak that morning at the church. 174 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:26,560 One of his parishioners got worried, of course, because the pastor did not show up to church 175 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:29,120 that day and he went to check on him. 176 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:35,600 And Shelby, in the 1980s, when people could live with their doors unlocked in a small 177 00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,120 town, they were one of them. 178 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:38,480 Nobody locked their doors. 179 00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:45,200 And this, of course, struck the parishioner at odds because he found the doors locked, 180 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:48,880 but the Pelley family didn't usually lock their doors. 181 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:54,560 So he used a spare key to get in because the Lakeville, Indiana community is really trusting 182 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,120 like that, they give each other house keys. 183 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:01,360 The parishioner entered the Pelley home to check on things. 184 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:11,200 And Shelby, when he walked in, there lay Bob, age 38, his wife Dawn, 32, Janelle, age eight, 185 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,200 and Jolene, age six. 186 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:15,200 They were all in the house deceased. 187 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,200 Wow. 188 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:18,240 I know, right? 189 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,480 Bob was in the hallway and the rest of the family was downstairs in the basement. 190 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:26,160 There did not appear to be any forced entry to the home. 191 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:32,080 But remember now, the parishioner that found the Pelley's said the doors were locked, which 192 00:10:32,080 --> 00:10:33,680 was quite unusual. 193 00:10:33,680 --> 00:10:37,920 Police say that it did not look like a burglary had occurred either. 194 00:10:37,920 --> 00:10:42,800 However, there was a shotgun missing from a gun rack in the family's home. 195 00:10:42,800 --> 00:10:46,880 And I believe that was in Bob's bedroom hanging on the wall. 196 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,080 And police do believe that was the murder weapon that was used. 197 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:51,120 Wow. 198 00:10:51,120 --> 00:10:54,160 Bob had died of two gunshot wounds to the head. 199 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:59,200 Dawn and the girls had also died the same way, but it was very evident, Shelbs, that 200 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:03,040 Dawn was trying to protect the girls from whoever was attacking them. 201 00:11:03,040 --> 00:11:04,400 Of course she was. 202 00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,000 They were so young. 203 00:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,360 I know. 204 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:09,440 She's not much older than me at all. 205 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:10,240 Mm-mm. 206 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:11,760 And I'd do the same thing. 207 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:13,760 Oh, yeah, absolutely. 208 00:11:13,760 --> 00:11:16,000 Well, the rest of the kids were not at home. 209 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:21,920 Jeff did have one step-sister, Jessie, age nine, who was sleeping over at a friend's 210 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:22,880 house. 211 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,320 And Jeff's sister, Jackie, who was 13 at the time, was at a church camp. 212 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:31,200 So Jeff and his sister were away. 213 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:35,680 One of his step-sisters was away, and the rest of the family was in the house. 214 00:11:35,680 --> 00:11:39,200 Jeff, on the other hand, he was 17 at this time. 215 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,360 Remember, he moved there when he was 14. 216 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,960 So three years later, he was actually enjoying the day. 217 00:11:44,960 --> 00:11:51,280 He was actually enjoying the day at the Great America Amusement Park near Chicago, Illinois, 218 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:53,200 after attending the prom the night before. 219 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:55,440 I mean, nothing unusual about that, right? 220 00:11:55,440 --> 00:11:56,480 It's great. 221 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:57,520 It's like Six Flags. 222 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,040 You've been there before, and I believe it's actually part of the same franchise. 223 00:12:01,040 --> 00:12:02,240 Mm-hmm. 224 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,040 So he just went to a theme park the day after prom. 225 00:12:05,040 --> 00:12:09,600 He got dressed up, went to the prom the night before, and then he went and hung out with 226 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:11,040 his friends the next day. 227 00:12:11,040 --> 00:12:13,040 Wow. 228 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:18,360 Could you imagine being at that park and investigators walking up to you while you're just hanging 229 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:19,480 out with your friends? 230 00:12:19,480 --> 00:12:20,800 They track you down at a park. 231 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,720 Could you imagine getting news like that? 232 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:24,160 No, not at all. 233 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,160 I know. 234 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:29,280 No, and that's crazy because it's not like they really had the cell phones back then. 235 00:12:29,280 --> 00:12:33,360 So I wonder how quickly they were able to find out that's where he was. 236 00:12:33,360 --> 00:12:34,360 Yeah. 237 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:36,520 Well, I'll bet his sister told them probably. 238 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:37,520 Oh, possibly. 239 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:38,520 Yeah. 240 00:12:38,520 --> 00:12:44,000 So the police conducted an investigation and came to some pretty swift conclusions, being 241 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:45,880 how small that town was. 242 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:46,880 Oh yeah. 243 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:48,200 Well, somebody knew where he was. 244 00:12:48,200 --> 00:12:49,200 Oh yeah. 245 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:50,200 Yeah. 246 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,200 Small town. 247 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,200 Everybody knows everybody. 248 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,480 And when they interviewed Jessie, the nine-year-old, she believed that Bob had committed murder 249 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:58,920 or suicide murder. 250 00:12:58,920 --> 00:13:02,720 Now, these are my grownup words, Shelves, because nine-year-olds wouldn't know how to 251 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,720 say that. 252 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:09,360 But she did tell police that she thought Bob did it because he was a mean, mean stepdad 253 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:10,880 and he spanked her a lot. 254 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:11,880 Oh wow. 255 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:14,720 So that's coming from the mouth of babes, you know? 256 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:15,720 Yeah. 257 00:13:15,720 --> 00:13:16,720 Oh. 258 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:17,720 I know. 259 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:22,080 Police quickly dismissed this idea though, because number one, they never found the murder 260 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:23,080 weapon. 261 00:13:23,080 --> 00:13:25,840 Number two, they also interviewed Jeff. 262 00:13:25,840 --> 00:13:30,480 And during their conversation with him, police discovered that Jeff had gotten to a little 263 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,160 pickle at home just the night before the murders. 264 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:40,800 According to Jeff, Bob had restricted him for stealing some money and some CDs and forbade 265 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,840 Jeff to drive his date to the prom on April 29th. 266 00:13:44,840 --> 00:13:51,440 So basically Jeff was grounded and he was not permitted to attend any social events 267 00:13:51,440 --> 00:13:56,680 with his friends, including that trip that they planned to the amusement park the next 268 00:13:56,680 --> 00:13:57,680 day. 269 00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:59,840 Oh, I would say there's the motive right there. 270 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:00,840 Oh yeah. 271 00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:05,560 Well, I just wanted to mention too, there's a difference between being grounded and being 272 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:06,560 restricted. 273 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:11,040 I'll tell you what though, when I first moved to Georgia, oh my gosh, the lingo here, Shelby, 274 00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:12,040 it was crazy. 275 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:13,840 It was like a different foreign language to me. 276 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:17,480 I had no idea what half these people were saying around here. 277 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,360 What's the difference between being grounded and restricted? 278 00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,480 Well grounded means that you can't go anywhere. 279 00:14:23,480 --> 00:14:26,720 Restricted means that obviously you have restrictions. 280 00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:28,060 You can still go somewhere. 281 00:14:28,060 --> 00:14:32,400 I'm not going to let you drive your date to the prom, but I'll be happy to escort you 282 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,000 there son. 283 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:37,640 I'm sure at 17 that's a little embarrassing too. 284 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:38,640 Yes. 285 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,920 Being chaperoned to the prom with dad. 286 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:41,920 Yeah. 287 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:42,920 Well, that's what happened. 288 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:46,720 And don't forget he was a pastor, so he was probably a little stricter. 289 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:47,720 Right. 290 00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:48,720 Yeah. 291 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,880 So Bob never said that Jeff couldn't go to the prom. 292 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:56,280 He just said, yeah, you're going to leave your Mustang parked in the driveway and I'll 293 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:58,560 be happy to drop you off. 294 00:14:58,560 --> 00:15:05,800 So Jeff also openly admitted that he and Dawn, his stepmother didn't always see eye to eye. 295 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:07,880 Again, Shelbs, I've kind of been there. 296 00:15:07,880 --> 00:15:13,160 I've been in a household where it's his boys and her girls and everybody was split down 297 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:14,160 the middle. 298 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,760 So there's obviously tension, especially if you're thrown into that blended family. 299 00:15:18,760 --> 00:15:19,840 There's nothing wrong with it. 300 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,000 I have wonderful stepbrothers. 301 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:27,560 I had a really wonderful stepfather, but when you're first thrown into all that, it really 302 00:15:27,560 --> 00:15:30,480 takes a lot of time to adjust to that. 303 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:31,480 For sure. 304 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:33,120 It's not an overnight process. 305 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,160 No, not at all. 306 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:40,640 Naturally Jeff became the prime suspect behind the Pelley family murders and the police believed 307 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:46,320 that Bob and Jeff had gotten into an altercation where Jeff ended up killing his family members 308 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:52,000 before getting dressed in his little white tuxedo and showing up late to pick up his 309 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,960 date who went to the prom with him that night. 310 00:15:54,960 --> 00:15:55,960 Wow. 311 00:15:55,960 --> 00:16:01,560 Seems to me like the reason maybe why he locked the door was because he was coming back to 312 00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:06,440 where he had it in his mind that he didn't want anybody coming in and he had planned 313 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:08,960 to do something with the bodies later. 314 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:09,960 Wow. 315 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:10,960 Yeah. 316 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:14,400 Gosh, that's a great concept. 317 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:15,400 You're probably right. 318 00:16:15,400 --> 00:16:17,520 I could be a detective. 319 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,000 They have an opening here. 320 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:21,000 Do they now? 321 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:22,000 Yes, they do. 322 00:16:22,000 --> 00:16:24,600 Well, you never know until you try. 323 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,280 You can tell them you have experience because you're a true crime podcaster now. 324 00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:29,280 That's right. 325 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:30,280 All right. 326 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:38,400 So Jeff's girlfriend had been interviewed by the police and she stated that she was 327 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:43,880 actually kind of surprised when Jeff came to pick her up because she knew that Bob had 328 00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:46,800 restricted him from driving that day. 329 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:53,320 And Jeff told her that Bob had a change of heart and he indeed would drive himself. 330 00:16:53,320 --> 00:16:54,840 So that's kind of where that went. 331 00:16:54,840 --> 00:17:00,800 She was surprised that he was coming to pick her up in the Mustang and everyone else the 332 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:06,280 police talked to said that Bob was very adamant that Jeff would not be driving himself to 333 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:07,280 the prom. 334 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,280 So lots of conflicts. 335 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:09,740 Yeah, for sure. 336 00:17:09,740 --> 00:17:14,680 After reviewing all the evidence, the district attorney decided that there was not enough 337 00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:18,500 evidence to prosecute Jeff and all charges were dropped. 338 00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:22,320 There was no murder weapon, no forensic evidence at the time. 339 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:28,240 Remember this is back in the 80s and Jeff certainly did not confess to any of the murders. 340 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:29,800 So life went on, right? 341 00:17:29,800 --> 00:17:30,800 Right. 342 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:36,160 Police backed off and did not pursue Jeff in his family's murders and Jeff, like I 343 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:42,560 said before, eventually grew up, moved away to Florida, got married, had a child and life 344 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:43,560 was good. 345 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:44,560 So life went on. 346 00:17:44,560 --> 00:17:45,560 What do you think so far? 347 00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:47,720 It's a very crazy story. 348 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,160 It's kind of like double jeopardy. 349 00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:54,000 They didn't want to charge him yet because it was, I don't know, did they have that double 350 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:56,360 jeopardy law in the 80s? 351 00:17:56,360 --> 00:17:57,360 Yeah. 352 00:17:57,360 --> 00:18:02,320 If anything, they probably dropped the charges because you can't charge him and then him 353 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:05,480 be acquitted and then charge him again. 354 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:09,200 If they didn't have enough evidence, they were definitely going to just drop it and 355 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,960 there is no statute of limitations on murder. 356 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:15,320 I don't even think there was back in the 80s. 357 00:18:15,320 --> 00:18:20,760 So yeah, I think they felt that it was a better idea just to kind of drop it. 358 00:18:20,760 --> 00:18:22,680 Didn't say they closed the case. 359 00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:23,680 They just dropped the charges. 360 00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,240 Have you ever seen that movie, Double Jeopardy? 361 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,560 Oh my gosh, that's a good movie. 362 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:31,480 Oh, it's such a good movie. 363 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:34,000 Yes, that was a really good movie. 364 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,000 Really good. 365 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:36,000 I loved it. 366 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:37,760 Oh yes, me too. 367 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,600 A new prosecutor reopened this case in 2002. 368 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:46,680 So 80, 90, it's about 22 years later, Shelbs. 369 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:52,800 Yeah, really good with math here, but it's about 22 years later, the new prosecutor in 370 00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:54,640 town reopened the case. 371 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:02,040 Jeff was officially arrested and charged with four counts of murder on August 10th, 2002 372 00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:07,640 and he remained behind bars until his trial began on July 10th, 2006. 373 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:11,920 That is a long time for somebody to sit behind bars. 374 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:12,920 Very long time. 375 00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:16,600 I mean, I guess they were still gathering evidence, but holy cow. 376 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:21,520 Jeff's step-sister, Jessie, who was nine at the time that her mother and sisters had been 377 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:27,660 murdered said that Jeff was a bully back in the 80s and firmly believed that he had something 378 00:19:27,660 --> 00:19:29,120 to do with their deaths. 379 00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:34,840 Jackie, his blood sister on the other hand, is still standing by her brother and is working 380 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:40,600 even today, Shelbs, to help Jeff have all murder charges dismissed. 381 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:41,600 Wow. 382 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,400 And when I say today, I mean, he's still behind bars. 383 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,400 Oh my gosh. 384 00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:46,400 Yeah. 385 00:19:46,400 --> 00:19:51,280 I mean, you always hear of people that are behind bars, innocent people behind bars or 386 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:52,440 cases such as that. 387 00:19:52,440 --> 00:19:56,720 I mean, there's really no closure right now, but I'll tell you the surviving children, 388 00:19:56,720 --> 00:20:03,640 Jessie, Jackie and Jeff are all in agreement of one thing from an adult perspective, because 389 00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:08,880 remember they were all kids when this happened and the blended family they belonged to in 390 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:12,060 the 1980s was not the Brady Bunch. 391 00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:17,760 If you've seen that show ever, they're all just happy, go lucky, they love each other, 392 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,760 they sing together. 393 00:20:18,760 --> 00:20:19,760 You know? 394 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:20,760 Oh, too bad. 395 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:24,840 That's not what it's really like. 396 00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:25,840 Nope. 397 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:26,960 It's really not. 398 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:32,560 The older Pellie siblings did not always get along with Dawn, like I had mentioned, because 399 00:20:32,560 --> 00:20:37,360 she had a different idea on how to raise her daughters from what they were used to. 400 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:39,420 Remember now, their father was a preacher. 401 00:20:39,420 --> 00:20:45,120 They probably had a little bit stricter upbringing and she was probably a little bit more lenient. 402 00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:47,280 Plus her kids were younger, you know? 403 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:48,280 Yeah. 404 00:20:48,280 --> 00:20:52,340 And Jessie also felt the same way about her new stepfather. 405 00:20:52,340 --> 00:20:57,560 She states that Bob was much more strict on her than what she had been used to. 406 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:03,200 He had lots and lots of rules and if anybody broke those rules, they'd get a spanking. 407 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,640 That was not unusual back in the 80s, but it is if you're not used to getting spanked 408 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:08,640 for sure. 409 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:09,640 Yeah, for sure. 410 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:12,580 Now, we're going to talk about some theories here. 411 00:21:12,580 --> 00:21:18,920 After this case was opened, prosecutors developed a timeline of events that placed Jeff at the 412 00:21:18,920 --> 00:21:20,440 scene of the crime. 413 00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:26,880 They believe that there was a 45 minute window between when Bob was last seen to the time 414 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:30,760 that nobody could get in contact with him, which is somewhere around five o'clock in 415 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:31,880 the afternoon. 416 00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:36,480 This is when prosecutors believe that the murders took place because what time do you 417 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,920 usually get ready for the prom shelves towards the late afternoon, right? 418 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:41,920 Right. 419 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,080 Based on the position that Bob's body was found in the hallway, investigators believe 420 00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:52,640 that whoever had shot him had just come out of the bedroom and I had mentioned that that 421 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:54,760 was where the gun rack was at. 422 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:59,680 So somebody probably knew where that was at, went straight for it, came out and caught 423 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:01,040 Bob in the hallway. 424 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:02,380 And that's pretty much it. 425 00:22:02,380 --> 00:22:06,040 That's what got Jeff convicted was that theory right there. 426 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:07,040 Oh wow. 427 00:22:07,040 --> 00:22:08,040 Yep. 428 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:13,120 I would have liked to see how he was reacting or acting when they were interviewing him. 429 00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:14,120 Yes. 430 00:22:14,120 --> 00:22:19,240 I did not find any videos online every now and then I can come up with the police video 431 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:22,880 on YouTube or something, but I did not see any of that because you're right. 432 00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:23,880 He would have been 14. 433 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,120 No, he would have been 17 at the time. 434 00:22:26,120 --> 00:22:27,120 Right. 435 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:31,440 But in today's age though, Jeff as an adult has theories of his own. 436 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:37,300 He believes that Bob was involved in illegal mob activities that got him killed. 437 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:41,920 And there was a witness from the original investigation that actually supported this 438 00:22:41,920 --> 00:22:42,920 claim. 439 00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:48,160 According to the witness, they had tried to sell an electronic membership directory to 440 00:22:48,160 --> 00:22:54,480 Bob at that olive branch church that I had mentioned, but he did not want his photo published 441 00:22:54,480 --> 00:23:00,680 because he said, quote, I had another life prior to becoming a minister and do not want 442 00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:02,680 to be found unquote. 443 00:23:02,680 --> 00:23:05,680 Ooh, that's eerie. 444 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:06,800 Right. 445 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:14,160 Bob also told his eyewitness that he quote, moved money for bad guys and wanted a life 446 00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:16,520 and more family unquote. 447 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:21,720 So you know, according to the witness that is kind of corroborating the fact that there 448 00:23:21,720 --> 00:23:25,800 could have been some illegal mob activities. 449 00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:32,960 You know, why did they move to Indiana so quickly and why so far from Florida? 450 00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:33,960 Yeah. 451 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,520 That's definitely a cause for concern, I would say. 452 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,920 Or at least a flag, right? 453 00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:43,120 Might not be a red flag, but it's definitely a flag. 454 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:48,680 According to Jeff, this eyewitness testimony was dismissed by Indiana police during the 455 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:56,480 1989 investigation and police turned their focus on Jeff at that time as a prime suspect. 456 00:23:56,480 --> 00:24:02,460 Prosecutors also did not subpoena the eyewitness for Jeff's 2006 trial because their statements 457 00:24:02,460 --> 00:24:05,320 were considered at that time, Shelby, just hearsay. 458 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,280 I mean, it's like me telling you something that I saw. 459 00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,000 Okay, well, that's what I saw, but was it true? 460 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:12,000 Was it factual? 461 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,000 Could you prove it? 462 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:14,000 Yeah. 463 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:18,680 Jeff's defense originally filed a motion for his case to be dismissed because his rights 464 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,120 to a speedy trial were violated. 465 00:24:21,120 --> 00:24:22,440 And what did I just say? 466 00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,680 He spent four years behind bars before his trial even started. 467 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,160 Yeah, that's quite a long time. 468 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:30,480 Well, this notion was denied. 469 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:36,080 Jeff's defense lawyers then asked for a camera that was placed into evidence that they believed 470 00:24:36,080 --> 00:24:40,920 contained photos of Jeff with his prom date that were taken before the prom. 471 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:42,640 I mean, you know how that goes. 472 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:47,880 You go out with your date, you go into the garden, you go to wherever it is, you go get 473 00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,640 pictures taken and you get a lot of pictures, right? 474 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:51,640 Yes. 475 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:55,880 The defense states that the camera was never released, which could be a matter of showing 476 00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:59,240 proof regarding Jeff having permission to go to the prom. 477 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,160 So if he was all dressed up to go, who took those pictures, right? 478 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,160 Exactly. 479 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:05,560 Could have been his dad. 480 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:11,320 17 years after the Pelley family murders, Jeff Pelley was convicted on four counts of 481 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:19,700 murder and sentenced Shelbs to 106 years behind bars at the Wabash Valley Correctional Facility 482 00:25:19,700 --> 00:25:21,720 in Terrahot, Indiana. 483 00:25:21,720 --> 00:25:22,880 Wow. 484 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,720 And the earliest that Jeff will be released is 2082. 485 00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:28,720 Oh my gosh. 486 00:25:28,720 --> 00:25:30,600 Isn't that something? 487 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:31,600 Wow. 488 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:37,440 Jeff appealed his sentencing to the Indiana Supreme Court and on February 19th, 2009, the 489 00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,080 conviction was upheld. 490 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,400 So basically he's still sitting behind bars. 491 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:48,340 In 2010, the wrongful conviction clinic at Indiana University took on Jeff's case to 492 00:25:48,340 --> 00:25:54,040 assist in freeing him from prison based on his innocence of the family murders. 493 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:59,240 According to Jeff's attorneys, a law went into effect after the Pelley family murders 494 00:25:59,240 --> 00:26:04,200 that stated counselor or client records were subject to disclosure. 495 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,320 And in this case, the records were requested after this law took effect, which if you think 496 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,280 about it, Shelby, the law wasn't in place when Jeff was placed behind bars. 497 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:17,440 So that really does compromise his civil rights. 498 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:22,720 Because when you say subject to disclosure, it just basically means that there are certain 499 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:29,600 things that you can either hold in counselor client confidentialities and that wasn't the 500 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:30,600 case for him. 501 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:31,600 Wow. 502 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:32,600 I didn't know that. 503 00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:33,600 Yeah. 504 00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:34,600 Please tell me if that is correct. 505 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:38,120 I think I explained that right, or at least that's what I was looking at when I was doing the 506 00:26:38,120 --> 00:26:39,120 research. 507 00:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,280 I'm pretty sure we have some legal listeners out there. 508 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,760 If I did not get that right, go ahead and email me. 509 00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,120 I'd love to know. 510 00:26:46,120 --> 00:26:49,800 Additional appeals and petitions are still active today. 511 00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:55,000 And if anyone is interested, there's a ton of legal motions found on the internet pertaining 512 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:56,320 to this case. 513 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:04,320 As of April 2022, Jeff continues to file motions for post-conviction relief, which includes 514 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:11,320 filing motions for charges to be dismissed, motions for a new trial, and motions to lessen 515 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,400 his sentence. 516 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,920 So Jeff continues to be quite active in his own defense here. 517 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:24,560 And his sister, Jackie, stands behind her brother and has a website set up at justiceforjeff.com, 518 00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,120 which I will put in our show notes. 519 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:27,640 And I actually went to that website. 520 00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:28,640 It was pretty good. 521 00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:29,640 Yeah. 522 00:27:29,640 --> 00:27:30,640 I'll have to go check that out. 523 00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:31,640 Yeah. 524 00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:36,000 Well, that is the ongoing case of the Pelley family murders. 525 00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,240 We love feedback from our listeners on this storyline, so make sure you DM us and there 526 00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:43,400 you go. 527 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:44,400 That's our story. 528 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:45,400 Very interesting. 529 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:46,400 Thanks for sharing. 530 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:49,000 I'll have to go check out the website. 531 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,520 So what's your teachable moment for us today? 532 00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,280 I'm glad you asked me that, Shelves, because you kind of mentioned this a little while 533 00:27:55,280 --> 00:28:01,440 ago that what was Jeff's demeanor like when he was being interviewed when he was 17 years 534 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:02,440 old? 535 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:05,320 My teachable moment is lawyer up. 536 00:28:05,320 --> 00:28:10,520 Not one article that I read stated that Jeff had legal representation when he was questioned 537 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:11,520 by the police. 538 00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:15,000 And, Shelves, I do work with adolescents frequently. 539 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,640 They are just little children in grown up bodies. 540 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:25,200 So you know, I know our brains are scientifically proven not to be completely developed until 541 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:26,200 we're in our mid 20s. 542 00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,880 I mean, think about some of those choices that you made before you were 25 or 26 years 543 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:31,880 old. 544 00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:32,880 I don't like to think about that. 545 00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:38,000 I wonder what year it was that the Miranda rights came out. 546 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:39,280 Oh, the Miranda rights? 547 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:42,200 Oh, gosh, I think that was a long time ago. 548 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,120 I don't know for sure, but it was it was quite a while back. 549 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:46,120 I don't know. 550 00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:47,120 That's a good one. 551 00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:48,120 1966. 552 00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:49,120 Wow. 553 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,480 So I'm wondering why he didn't have a lawyer. 554 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:53,640 I mean, I'm sure he had one. 555 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:59,320 I just didn't find anything in when I was researching to say he had one at all. 556 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:00,680 I'm sure he did. 557 00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,180 But there was not a whole lot of information on that. 558 00:29:03,180 --> 00:29:07,960 And so if he was being questioned, I mean, they did drop the charges there for a hot 559 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:08,960 minute. 560 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,960 Right. 561 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:10,960 Yeah. 562 00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:17,720 So in this case, he was only 17 when he was first looked at for his family's murders. 563 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,880 And honestly, Shelbs, you can't convince me that any 17 year old is going to know what 564 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:29,920 to do when investigators place you in an interrogation room and put that pressure on you to tell 565 00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,680 them everything you know, especially if you don't have counsel. 566 00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:35,240 Oh, I'm sure. 567 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:36,240 Yeah. 568 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:40,760 And as a parent, honestly, Shelbs, you need to tell your children if they are ever 569 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,560 put into this position of being questioned, they need to ask for a lawyer. 570 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:46,560 Think about it. 571 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,300 You got kids that are driving age. 572 00:29:48,300 --> 00:29:52,360 If they get pulled over for the wrong thing and get toted off to jail, you need to tell 573 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:53,600 them to get a lawyer. 574 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:56,880 And obviously, just circumstances are extenuated. 575 00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:02,760 But it doesn't matter if a kid is pulled over for driving and then they end up at the police 576 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:04,120 precinct. 577 00:30:04,120 --> 00:30:09,120 Ask for a lawyer because if Jeff had, then maybe things might have turned out a little 578 00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:10,120 bit differently. 579 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:11,120 Absolutely. 580 00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:12,280 So there you have it. 581 00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,280 That's my teachable moment. 582 00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:14,280 Well, that was a good story. 583 00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:15,280 Thank you for sharing. 584 00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,280 You are so welcome. 585 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:22,920 And thanks for indulging me this week for all your feedback and thanks to our listeners. 586 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:26,920 And I guess this is a good time to say talk to you next week. 587 00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,400 See you next week. 588 00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:30,480 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. 589 00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:35,720 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 590 00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:41,400 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 591 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:47,280 You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking 592 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,080 on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 593 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:55,560 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash Dying 594 00:30:55,560 --> 00:30:58,840 to be Found spelled just like you see it on our logo. 595 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,480 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. 596 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:03,960 Or if you'd like a sticker. 597 00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:08,960 With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. 598 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:34,960 We will talk to you all next week.