Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found.
Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, this is Deb.
And I'm Shelby.
And welcome to episode number 47 of Dying to be Found.
As always, thanks for being here with us today, Shelby.
Guess what?
What's that?
We just reached a major milestone and I wanted to thank all of our listeners who downloaded 10,000 of our episodes.
So a big hurrah.
Wow.
Thank you so much.
Can you believe it?
10,000.
No, that is awesome.
Yeah, we're getting there.
I just about spent all of my Christmas break putting together some quality time just to get season two ready.
And if you tuned into our last episode number 46, we made a big announcement on some of those changes, but that's not all.
Keep watching on social media and you will continue to see those changes.
It's like our little gift to you that just keeps on giving.
Absolutely.
I'm so excited.
Yeah.
So Shelby, happy New Year to you.
I hope you had a great Christmas.
I mean, mother to daughter, I know we've talked, but I heard that you heeded my warning from our last episode, took a little advice to heart, and you went out and got a little home security.
I did.
First of all, happy New Year to you.
And I did.
I got a very small home security system.
She is about two pounds.
She is a black and gold Yorkie and I am in love.
Oh.
She looks like a little teddy bear.
Oh, what'd you name her?
Her name is Holly.
Oh, Holly for Christmas.
You know, I almost named you Holly.
I do.
That's partly why I fell in love with that name because I do.
I love the name Holly.
That is a great name.
Oh, I know.
And you all she is so so cute.
Well, I'm so excited for you because everybody needs an animal to snuggle up to.
It's kind of like our own little animal therapy and I love my dogs.
You know that I sure do.
So I have a question for you as always.
I was going to say you always have a question for me and I always say I have an answer for
you.
What are your thoughts on those apps where you can add a circle of friends or family
so that they know your location and where you're at?
I love them just because I found them to be fairly useful.
Not only when you go on long trips so your family knows where you're at or if anything
happens, but there's been instances where my daughter was done with cheerleading practice
and they have a bus that shuttles them from the county out into town.
So I don't have to drive as far to pick her up.
You know, I've been having some issues with receiving text messages and she happened to
send me a few texts saying she was on the way and I never got them.
Thank goodness I was able to utilize one of those apps and see that she was almost to
the school where I pick her up at.
And so in that instance, I actually found it extremely useful.
It is useful because I know that between you and me, there's quite a bit of a difference.
So we do travel back and forth and we don't ever have to call or text and say, hey, where
are you or what time are you going to be here or how much longer because we can gauge each
other's path and where we're at.
And I think it's pretty useful.
It's come a long way since GPS.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So today we're going to talk about the Jamison family out of Ufala, Oklahoma.
On October 8th of 2009, the Jamison family set out to scout a 40 acre tract of land that
was for sale near Red Oak in the San Boy Mountains located in Southeast Oklahoma.
I say that for our listeners who may know the area, I do not know much about Oklahoma,
but there's always somebody out there that I feel if you can get the visual, it really
helps a lot with the story for sure.
Yeah.
I don't know much about Oklahoma either, but that is one state I've always wanted to visit.
I heard it's beautiful.
Me too.
Yeah.
The Jamison family in Medale, age 44, Sherrilyn Leanne, age 40 and Madison Stormy Jamison,
age six, were last seen when the Jamisons told family members that they were planning
on moving out to rural Oklahoma for a change of scenery.
Let's move on to the fact that when the Jamisons went out for the day to look at that plot
during Shelby and it took authorities eight days to locate the vehicle that they had driven
out to the land just after they had gone missing and their white pickup truck was found abandoned
in Latimer County, just about one hour from their house.
The truck was locked and several personal items were left inside.
First and foremost, I do give a disclaimer at the very beginning of every episode that
sometimes animals are involved and in this case, their dog, Maisie, was locked inside
the car.
Maisie was found in poor condition, almost starving to death, Shelby, but Maisie did
survive.
Oh, good.
Yeah.
Eight days.
That's a long time.
And you know, for those first several days, the poor thing was probably doing nothing
but barking.
Yeah.
So true because it was a little dog and we do know little dogs have big personalities.
It was one of those Lhasa Opso or Shih Tzu mix dogs, really cute little puppy.
Oh, at least they found her in time for sure.
Now I'm curious though about some of the things that were locked inside the vehicle.
First, if the family just went out to scout land and they specifically took their family
dog with them, why would they not have just taken Maisie outside if they were planning
to roam the land for a little while?
Yeah, you would think they would unless they just didn't plan on being there long.
But then again, you said it was 40 acres, so no telling.
Yeah.
If I were to go out and look at land, I know that 40 acres would be quite, I mean, you're
going to be at least outside for about an hour or more.
Additional items found inside the vehicle were the Jamison's wallets, Sherlyn's purse,
car keys, cell phones, a GPS, plus a little bit of cash, Shelby, in the amount of $32,000.
I wish I had that little bit of cash.
Yeah, that'd be really nice for retirement.
I'm already thinking ahead.
Right?
I know.
Yeah, that does sound good.
I will say that later during interviews, Bobby's mother does speculate where that $32,000 came
from.
Shelby had been in a car accident a while back and he did reach a settlement.
He was living on disability, but his mother could not be sure where that $32,000 came
from.
And it was a mystery as to why it was in the car in the first place.
So they don't know what the intentions of that money was.
To me, Shelby, if it was left in the car, that does not look like a robbery was about
to take place.
No, I 100% agree.
Yeah, and then of course, there's Maisie, why she was left in that car that I had mentioned.
Upon the discovery of the family's truck, police immediately began an investigation
and brought in over 100 police officers, tracking dogs, and volunteers on horseback to blanket
the area.
And they also brought in a drone.
Yeah, they started a search pretty quickly.
They continued the search over the next eight months and they simply couldn't find any
of the Jamison's.
They just vanished shelves.
So sad.
Yeah.
For the next several months, local authorities worked closely with the FBI, but you know,
there were just no leads and the case went cold.
However, on November 16th, 2013, Bobby, Sherlyn, and Madison were all discovered in a wooded
area by deer hunters about three miles from where their truck had originally been discovered
when they first disappeared in 2009.
By the time they were found, they were only skeletal remains and the medical examiner
was unable to determine any of the causes of death.
The family was found laying side by side in a dense brush and no one appeared to die a
violent death.
There was, however, a small hole in Bobby's skull that could have been caused by a small
pistol, but nothing was conclusive because it appeared that something carnivorous had
done damage to the family's bones.
Meaning Shelby, the Jamison's could have been ravaged by rodents, wolves, or something
else that came along after they had died.
I just couldn't imagine.
It sounds to me like maybe they had gotten lost.
Yeah, they very well could have.
I mean, 2009, you certainly had enough technology and such to keep yourself from getting lost,
but 40 acres is a big area, but something that you should know about the area that they
were in.
The Sand Boys Mountains, where they were located, the name Sand Boy is actually the terminology
for that is that there are no woods.
Imagine a huge open field that may have a tree line.
So the mountains were really just more open and there wasn't a ton of trees in the area.
I mean, yeah, they're going to have clusters, but it's not going to be a full foliage forest.
You know what I mean?
Well after the Jamisons were found, several theories came into place, which is that the
family, like you said, could have gotten lost in the wilderness or they had died from hypothermia.
Now it was October in Oklahoma and temperatures had dropped to somewhere around 40 degrees
Fahrenheit or four degrees Celsius, which is just above that freezing mark.
And for our listeners, Shelby, I'm going to make it easy on you.
I've done some calculations here.
All you have to do is take Fahrenheit temperature that I gave you, subtract 32 and then multiply
by 0.5556.
That's all you have to do.
So I do try to give the Fahrenheit and Celsius at the same time.
It's easy, right?
That is pretty easy, says the person who knows no math.
And I really had to go look this up.
To me, the hypothermia Shelby could make sense because of the Jamisons were found side by
side.
Like I had mentioned, they could have been trying to huddle together to keep each other
warm.
But then again, why was Maisie not with them?
That theory of them getting lost.
I do agree.
To me, it sounds accurate that they got lost for sure.
Yeah.
And then if the sun goes down, you know, if it was 40 degrees during the day or four degrees
Celsius during the day and those temperatures plummet after the sun goes down.
Well, additional theories do come into play and family members do not accept that the
Jamisons just simply wandered off or even got lost or died of hypothermia.
Instead, they believe that foul play was involved based on how the truck was parked when it
was discovered.
They believe that the family came upon something that they probably should not have and were
forced to make a stop in a very isolated area.
Bob's mother is adamant that the mountains where her son drove to was rampant with meth
labs and outlaws.
So meth was pretty prominent in that area and she happens to think that they probably
came across something they might not have needed to at the time.
I could somewhat see that.
But then again, the money was left behind.
So exactly.
Well, a plethora of other theories associated with the Jamisons family deaths also occurred,
including the supernatural and witchcraft, a drug deal gone wrong, and plain and simple
family problems.
So I'm actually going to go through each of these theories because I don't think that
any of this needs to be left unturned.
On the opposite spectrum though, some speculate that this could have been a murder suicide
plot brought on by Sherilyn's depression that was onset by the recent death of her
sister, which I will get into in just a little bit.
So let's talk about the supernatural and witchcraft.
Sherilyn's mother voiced concerns that the family got caught in a religious cult, but
police did not see any evidence to support this.
And the family pastor was interviewed and said at some point that the family was dealing
with spiritual warfare in the home.
Now let me give you an example here.
Bobby and Sherilyn at one point had come to the pastor to discuss spiritual entities
that they believed were occupying their house.
In other words, Shelbs, the couple felt that their house was haunted.
I don't even know if we've talked about this.
Do you believe in ghosts?
I do.
I think, gosh, what's that lady's name?
I love to watch her.
She's one of my favorites.
The Long Island medium?
Yes, I love her.
And then there's another one.
I think he's fairly new.
His name is Matt Frazier.
I think they actually more so refer to them as spirits.
But yes, I do.
I've not experienced it myself, but I don't think I necessarily want to, but I believe
it.
I refer to something else's spirits, but that's another story.
We'll have to talk about that later then.
Well, I mentioned to you in past episodes that I've had premonitions and even dreams
that have come true.
I personally have never encountered a real spirit, nor do I ever wish to.
Holy cow.
I do not know what I would do, but yeah, that is definitely something I do not ever want
to come up against.
Do I believe in spirits?
Yes.
Would I deliberately stay in a presumably haunted house?
Never.
Would you?
No, absolutely not.
I 100% would love to, I think, get read, but I don't really have anybody too terribly close
to me that has passed.
So I personally don't think that I would have any spirits around me.
That's just me though.
Your uncle tells me that we have a ghost cat in the house.
I remember hearing that.
For our listeners, apparently I have a ghost cat that came when my brother came to visit.
He was sleeping in the guest room and he swore that there was a ghost cat in the house.
And just this past summer, I was talking with a neighbor.
There was a fire at my house before I moved in and apparently a cat died here.
Wow.
I don't know if I even told you that.
I do remember you telling me that.
I forgot about the fire though.
Yep.
Okay.
Back to our story here.
I told the pastor that the spirits of family members lived with them and that their daughter
Madison was in contact with one of the younger spirits.
Some of these spirits even had names, Shelby.
Their names were Emily and Michael.
Okay.
Let me pause here for just a moment.
I know one of our listeners who's probably going to freak out when I say Emily and Michael.
I know you're crapping your pants right now.
It's so funny because Emily is my stepsister.
And Michael's her boyfriend.
So hi Emily.
I hope you're listening.
That's so crazy.
Hi Emily.
Hi Michael.
We're sending you love right now.
Yes we are.
Let me know what you think about this episode afterwards.
Yeah.
All right.
The pastor stated that Bobby Jamison asked him about using silver bullets to extinguish
the entities from their home.
And after the family disappeared, police discovered a witch's Bible inside the house, which they
discovered that Sherrilyn had bought earlier in time just as a joke to put on her coffee
table.
Bobby on the other hand was reading a satanic Bible to exercise the property and cryptic
messages were written on the side of a steel storage container that the couple had begun
packing in preparation for their move because they were dead set on moving out to that property
they were looking at.
Wow.
So pause for just a moment.
Shelbs, have you ever seen that movie The Exorcist?
I have not and I don't plan to.
Okay.
Just asking.
So let's move on to theory number two and that would be methamphetamine.
I had mentioned earlier that meth was rampant in the areas and that the Jamisons may have
happened upon a meth lab along their path and ultimately paid the price because close
friends and family members noted how thin both Bobby and Sherrilyn were, which led them
to believe that the couple was on meth and may have gone in pursuit of drugs.
So I don't really know what the behaviors are of people that do that drug.
I suppose I could probably look into it, but do you know much about meth?
I don't.
Yeah.
Well, video surveillance outside the Jamisons home documented that while they were packing
that storage container, they kept walking back and forth and passing each other in a
trance like state and they simply were not talking to each other.
They just went back and forth like robots packing the storage container and apparently
they did quite a lot of time doing this without interacting with one another.
But I do want to be clear here, police found no evidence of meth or any other drugs on
the property when they came to investigate.
So I am not saying that they are doing drugs, we're doing drugs.
I'm making it very clear.
It's just video surveillance.
If you go out to the internet, you will see yourself.
You can make your own decisions there.
All right.
The next theory is family values.
Bobby's dad, Bob Sr., apparently had an extremely tumultuous relationship with Bobby Jr.
Apparently Bob continuously provided empty promises throughout the years in how he would
give Bobby half ownership in a family business.
Bob owned a gas station and while Bobby was in high school, he spent a lot of time working
at the gas station helping to keep the business afloat with the understanding that he would
benefit from its sale one day.
And of course this never happened.
Fast forward, Bobby is now in his forties and he has seen nothing coming from this business
as of yet.
At one point, the father and son's relationship got so bad that Bobby obtained a restraining
order against his own father and Bob threatened to kill Bobby not once, but twice.
Wow.
Bobby did have an outstanding lawsuit against his father in which he was ordered to receive
a large sum of money.
So some theorize that Bob may have placed a hit on his own son and that may have been
what happened.
Yeah, that's sad.
Yeah.
There was a lingering family grudge and some speculate it could have gotten to the turning
point where the Jamisons disappeared.
There's really no substance to this.
Of course, the police are going to do their investigations as well and they came to the
same conclusion.
Yeah, for sure.
I understand the differences maybe between Bobby and his dad, but if that were to be
what happened, then why the grandchild?
Why the wife?
Yeah, you're so right.
Let's move on to the next theory.
Apparently Sherrilyn was diagnosed with severe depression, which does say contributed to
the Jamisons demise.
And I had mentioned that Sherrilyn had a sister.
Well, Shelby, her sister died from a bee sting that stung her mouth a couple of years earlier
and her sister ended up dying from that bee sting.
Wow.
Was she allergic?
I'm going to say yes, because if she was Shelby and she got stung in the mouth, then if her
tongue's going to swell up, it is 100% going to block her air passages.
All I can think of is if you're going to get stung in the mouth, was she sipping from a
straw?
Did she go get a drink?
Maybe they were sitting around the campfire, who knows?
And she went to go take a drink from her cup.
And that's the only way that I can think that she could have gotten stung.
Apparently Sherrilyn never recovered from her loss.
That's so sad.
Yeah, that's got to be pretty traumatic.
There are two theories stemming from Sherrilyn's actions and interactions with not only the
community, but her own husband.
Some say that Sherrilyn had threatened a Native American tenant who was renting out one of
the Jamisons rooms in their house.
And the two had gotten into a racially motivated altercation where Sherrilyn eventually pointed
a gun at the tenant and ordered him off the property.
There could have been retaliation because of racially motivated conversations.
The police felt that this created racial tension between the two, which may have caused the
tenant to retaliate.
However, after a thorough investigation, the tenant was released from any wrongdoing and
was also able to provide a solid alibi.
Again, dead end.
Nothing has come from this.
Wow.
But secondly, authorities discovered an 11 page letter inside of that vehicle that Sherrilyn
had written to her husband, Bobby, which may have prompted Bobby to take his family out
to a remote area to do everybody in.
In the letter, Sherrilyn accused Bobby of being a hermit.
Plus, she made several references to death.
And remember the pistol that I had mentioned that Sherrilyn had pointed at her tenant?
Yes.
It was a 22 handgun, which is very, very small.
And Shelby, I don't know if you remember this.
I used to have a 22.
And one of your police officer friends at the time told me that a 22 could do damage,
but it would be more like a bee sting than anything else.
Yes, 22s do do a lot of damage, but not as much as a bigger gauge shotgun.
You know what I mean?
If any of our listeners have anything to add, please email me because I really don't know
much about handguns.
But this handgun in particular in the Jamison's case, the 22 did go missing from the family's
home and something the medical examiner did mention in his report was that small hole
in Bobby's skull could have been caused by a 22 or it could have been from those carnivorous
beasts that they feel had ravaged their bodies after they died.
Wow.
Well, again, the autopsies were inconclusive and like all other theories, Shelby, there's
no substance to a murder suicide plot.
So lots of speculation in this case, just no closure.
Right.
I mean, they weren't found until six years later, so I'm sure it is hard to determine
what happened.
Well, this last theory that I'm going to talk about is actually pretty interesting.
I'd not heard of this, but oh goodness, I guess this might go along the lines of supernatural
as well.
It's called the 35th degree latitude theory.
Have you heard of it?
I have not.
It's a pretty wild theory, Shelby.
First of all, there is a big scientific explanation on the coordinates of the earth in relation
to the equator.
I mean, if you're a scientist, you're probably going to go by coordinates.
And if you've ever looked at a map, I don't even know if you know how to read a map besides
a GPS, Shelby, do you know how to read a real paper map?
I don't know.
I don't think I've seen one since I was maybe seven or eight.
Well, it's not hard to explain.
They have coordinates on maps.
There you go.
I guess that's what I'll have to learn the next time we're together.
Absolutely.
Please let me show you how to read a map.
You'll probably need to use it one day and it's not hard to explain.
It's just easier right now to tell everybody to go look this up because the 35th degree
latitude is rather interesting here.
It's also referred to as the line of tragedy, which references a string of unfortunate events
that occurred along the 35th degree latitude in Oklahoma.
Wow, that's interesting.
I know.
There's a lot of instances.
You may have heard of some of these.
In 2001, Andrea Pia Kennedy Yates drowned all five of her children in a bathtub while
suffering from postpartum depression.
I remember that one was in the news.
I feel like I remember that one.
That's just awful.
Pastor Carol Daniels was found mutilated and propped inside a church in a crucifix position
on the 35th degree latitude.
Timothy McVeigh, who is known to have bombed the Alfred P. Murray Federal Building in Oklahoma,
that was on the 35th latitude.
And that bombing Shelby, I don't know if you remember this one, it killed 168 people and
injured almost 700 more.
Oh my gosh.
I know.
And then finally, a very similar case to the Jamison family also occurred when Tommy Raymond
Eastup disappeared on July 7th, 2013 on the 35th latitude.
His truck was also abandoned under very similar conditions as the Jamison's.
So there are several cases on what has occurred over the years on that 35th degree latitude
in Oklahoma.
Coincidence?
There are, and I would suggest everyone just stay away.
Stay away.
Good suggestion, Shelbs.
So this ends the mysterious story of the Jamison family deaths.
And there are, like I had mentioned, plenty of theories out there, so to our listeners,
we would love to hear what you guys have to say.
DM us on Instagram or shoot us an email at dyingtobefound at gmail.com or if you have
anything else to add to this story.
So there you go, Shelbs, the Jamison family deaths.
It's very sad.
I do hope that the family gets some closure on that someday soon.
Absolutely.
So what's your teachable moment for us today?
Teachable moment.
Well, I had mentioned I was going to talk about those apps, those location apps.
And in this day and age, we give our privacy away to a lot of techie companies.
Would you agree?
I agree.
I try and turn it off as much as possible.
Yes, as do I.
And that's why I don't comment a lot on social media.
But it's also important that we think a little closer to home than just giving our information
to the techie companies.
I had mentioned there are a lot of apps that we can share amongst family members that provide
us with a peace of mind when we are as spread out as you and I are, Shelby.
We use Life360 to know where everybody is when we're traveling.
So Life360 sponsor us.
We'll talk about you again, I'm sure.
Please.
And I know I find it extremely helpful to know where you are, especially if you're traveling
alone.
You know, I travel alone quite a bit, so I know it's a peace of mind to you as well.
Absolutely.
We'd like to watch you drive down the road.
It is kind of cool, isn't it?
I also share my location with family members on my Maps app so that they can estimate my
driving time.
Now, this is a cool thing.
Remember Thanksgiving, I went to go visit your uncle who happened to be looking at that
app.
He and your aunt were wondering how much longer I would be before I got to their house that
day.
Well, the app said that I was about to arrive.
So Uncle Sean was looking at his phone as he was walking out into the driveway while
I was pulling up.
So there's an accuracy to that for sure.
Oh, wow.
I know.
We do the same thing.
Do you notice that we're outside most of the time when you're getting here now too?
Yeah.
I mean, really, there's no reason why you shouldn't be telling everybody where you're
at.
Yeah, that is the cool thing about it.
I don't mind sharing my data with you.
That's for sure.
I know.
I get asked, why are you not on Life 360 when mine is turned off for some reason?
I do the same thing with John.
John travels on his motorcycle all the time and he goes like five hour trips.
So my teachable moment here is regardless if you tell your family members where you
are going for the day, clearly the Jamisons left evidence behind because they did tell
their family members.
They may not have intended to stay out for very long, but you need to send at least one
family member some sort of tracker, especially if you are traveling alone or if you know
that you're going to be in an isolated area.
In the Jamisons case, they probably didn't have that technology back in 2009, but as
of today, we certainly do.
Are you sure?
Am I sure what?
That they didn't have those apps in 2009?
I was in high school.
You were able to track me.
Thank you for that reminder.
You're no, but you know what though?
It wasn't an app.
I don't even think we had smartphones then Shelbs.
It was a notification that went through the phone company where you actually had to give
me permission to track you.
So there was no hiding it.
Oh, I don't remember that.
I mean privacy rights for our younger listeners.
That's what we still had flip phones.
But that's where it all began.
Millennials probably don't know what those are.
No, they don't.
They have no idea.
Do they?
I'm still a millennial, but I'm the older part of that generation.
I know some of our thought processes are so similar.
I sometimes forget Shelby that honestly your experiences are very similar to mine growing
up because you did go the majority of your life without a cell phone while you were growing
up.
I was literally just thinking today what luxury my children have and they get to be on their
cell phones and me at this age used to get in trouble when I just tried to connect to
the internet on the desktop computer.
Wow, what's a desktop?
I don't even know what that is anymore.
Just kidding.
If you don't know what a desktop computer is, you're too young to listen to this podcast.
All right.
Use one of those apps or at least send the link where people know where you are.
This could be a matter of life and death when you least expect it and it will really help
authorities find you if you do get yourself into a sticky situation.
So that's it Shelbs.
That's my teachable moment.
That is it.
I think that's a very good teachable moment.
I know that I do enjoy being on Life360 as do my children.
So I think that's a good teachable moment.
All right.
Well, with that, I think we're done here and be sure to check in next week and we will
talk to you soon.
Talk to you soon.
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