1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,960 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 2 00:00:03,960 --> 00:00:08,480 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions 3 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:13,440 on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,240 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this 5 00:00:18,240 --> 00:00:19,240 podcast. 6 00:00:19,240 --> 00:00:24,400 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 7 00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:25,800 Hi everyone! 8 00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:29,660 Welcome to episode number 42 of Dying to be Found. 9 00:00:29,660 --> 00:00:30,800 My name is Deb. 10 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:32,160 And I'm Shelby. 11 00:00:32,160 --> 00:00:35,400 And we are so glad that you're here today, Shelby. 12 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:36,400 Welcome back! 13 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:38,080 It's been a while since you've dropped in. 14 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,980 And like our logo says, it's a family thing. 15 00:00:40,980 --> 00:00:43,240 You have to know us to understand, right Shelby? 16 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:44,240 That's right. 17 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:45,240 I'm excited to be back. 18 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:52,240 It's been a very, very busy last few months, I would say, between school starting and Halloween 19 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,280 and now it's our Thanksgiving. 20 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:56,760 How is that possible? 21 00:00:56,760 --> 00:00:58,160 This year has flown by. 22 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,600 Yeah, like they say, time flies for sure. 23 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:02,200 But I'm glad you're here. 24 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:07,440 And by the time this episode is released, like you said, we will be in full-blown holiday 25 00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:08,440 season. 26 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:12,080 So we wish our listeners well and thank you all for tuning in. 27 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:18,060 Just like I said, Shelby and I are a mother-daughter duo living a world apart. 28 00:01:18,060 --> 00:01:22,280 And when we're not talking on the phone, practically every day, right Shelbs? 29 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:23,360 That is very true. 30 00:01:23,360 --> 00:01:24,360 Yep. 31 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,720 We reconnect to bring you a true crime story or two. 32 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:31,660 Our episodes are left open to the interpretation of our listeners. 33 00:01:31,660 --> 00:01:36,680 So if you have a storyline you would like to hear, be sure to message us on Instagram, 34 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:44,460 email us at dyingthenumber2theletterbefound at gmail.com or check out our Linktree account 35 00:01:44,460 --> 00:01:49,840 in our show notes where you can find all of our contact information in one place. 36 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:55,800 So Shelby, I have been opening up our storylines by asking Aunt Beth a question. 37 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:58,160 Now I get to do the same with you. 38 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:00,000 I'm trying to recollect. 39 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,160 I don't even know how much time you spent outdoors. 40 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:08,280 I don't recall you doing very much of that unless you were on the ball field growing 41 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,280 up. 42 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:11,720 So did you play around the woods a lot or was that just your brother? 43 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:15,720 I was in the woods all the time. 44 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:16,720 All the time. 45 00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:23,480 I remember behind the house we had a creek and if you actually walked far enough, there 46 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:24,740 was a waterfall. 47 00:02:24,740 --> 00:02:26,960 I don't know if you know about that. 48 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:29,300 That's how far back we had to walk. 49 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:35,320 And then probably I'd say a 30 minute walk a little further into the woods we had the 50 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:36,320 rock quarry. 51 00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:41,640 I don't know if you remember us getting into trouble a few times down there. 52 00:02:41,640 --> 00:02:47,120 I do remember that because do you know how many people die every year in rock quarries? 53 00:02:47,120 --> 00:02:49,240 Yes, it's so sad. 54 00:02:49,240 --> 00:02:53,120 That's why the police always come around to make sure that the kids in the neighborhood 55 00:02:53,120 --> 00:02:54,440 are not in the rock quarries. 56 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:59,360 But I do remember they actually made a movie with Kevin Costner and Elijah Wood. 57 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,680 Yeah, the two of them were making a movie back there. 58 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:04,880 So I don't even remember the name of that movie. 59 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:06,920 And that movie is called The War, Mom. 60 00:03:06,920 --> 00:03:07,920 Yeah. 61 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:12,520 So there was a movie called The War with Kevin Costner and Elijah Wood. 62 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:17,800 In my opinion, it was sort of a slow movie, but it had Kevin Costner in the title and 63 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,080 I am an avid fan of him. 64 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,080 So I will watch anything that he puts out. 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:29,000 Yeah, if you see an old water tower, Elijah Wood is back in, I don't know, a rocky area. 66 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:31,720 That's the rock quarry that was just behind our house. 67 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:35,040 And that water tower stood for years and years and years. 68 00:03:35,040 --> 00:03:38,120 I don't think I even remember the water tower being there. 69 00:03:38,120 --> 00:03:39,120 Wow. 70 00:03:39,120 --> 00:03:40,720 Yeah, it was there for a really long time. 71 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:43,280 They finally took it down, I think, when a new neighborhood went up. 72 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,840 Okay, I used to play in the woods too when I was a kid. 73 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:50,360 And let me just tell you a real quick story before we get started because back in the 74 00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:55,560 day, there was not a ton of stuff that would stimulate your mind indoors like there is 75 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,680 today, gaming and everything that goes along with that. 76 00:03:58,680 --> 00:04:02,120 We went out and used our imagination all day, every day. 77 00:04:02,120 --> 00:04:06,080 So let me tell you about the time when I was a young lassie. 78 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:11,040 There was a day that Aunt Kathy and I and several of our neighborhood friends were exploring 79 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:15,080 in the woods on our property, which is down a steep hill. 80 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:20,320 One day we were walking through the woods and apparently we ended up on the property 81 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:21,320 next door. 82 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,840 Now, the couple that had moved in next door to us, we were terrified of them because they 83 00:04:26,840 --> 00:04:28,240 were so mean. 84 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:34,860 Oh, they built a privacy fence when they came in and isolated themselves away from everybody 85 00:04:34,860 --> 00:04:36,080 in the neighborhood. 86 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,720 One day while we were in the woods, I'm pretty sure I heard this really booming voice that 87 00:04:40,720 --> 00:04:43,160 said, what are you doing down there? 88 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:48,800 And when we looked up Shelby, the man next door was standing there with his hands on 89 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,160 his hips glaring at us. 90 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,880 Think about this, a bunch of kids and how we just scattered. 91 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,520 As a young child, I'm sure that was scary. 92 00:04:57,520 --> 00:04:58,520 Yes. 93 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:03,220 Well, of course we all screamed and we did scatter in all different directions, I'm sure. 94 00:05:03,220 --> 00:05:08,200 And the problem was though, is that as we were running, I really don't remember if it 95 00:05:08,200 --> 00:05:12,280 was Aunt Kathy or me, but one of us lost our shoe in the mud. 96 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:13,280 Oh no. 97 00:05:13,280 --> 00:05:14,280 I know. 98 00:05:14,280 --> 00:05:21,360 It was that really thick mud that if you put your foot into it, it sinks deep and you just 99 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:22,680 can't get it out of there. 100 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:27,580 Well, Aunt Kathy and I were so terrified that even though we did try for just a split second 101 00:05:27,580 --> 00:05:31,280 to grab it, we ran and left the shoe behind. 102 00:05:31,280 --> 00:05:32,280 But guess what? 103 00:05:32,280 --> 00:05:33,280 What's that? 104 00:05:33,280 --> 00:05:37,680 The very next day we did go back to look for that shoe and it wasn't there. 105 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:38,680 Oh no. 106 00:05:38,680 --> 00:05:39,680 Yep. 107 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:44,520 So I'm sure the neighbor went down the hill. 108 00:05:44,520 --> 00:05:48,880 He probably got a good chuckle out of that, but he probably went down that hill and removed 109 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,840 the shoe, never to be seen again. 110 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:51,840 That's for sure. 111 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:55,320 I'm sure he threw it away, but he sure was not going to give it back. 112 00:05:55,320 --> 00:06:00,120 Anyway, so yeah, that's my childhood memory of playing around the woods. 113 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,080 Well that's a very scary memory. 114 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:03,840 Yes it was. 115 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:11,400 All right, well today I'm going to bring you a mystery of a boy found in a box in Philadelphia, 116 00:06:11,400 --> 00:06:12,840 Pennsylvania. 117 00:06:12,840 --> 00:06:16,880 And this episode does talk of the death of a child. 118 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:22,700 So I want to give our listeners the opportunity to opt out of this episode today. 119 00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:27,880 We completely understand, but please make sure that you check back next Thursday or 120 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,120 you can go back and catch up on some of those other episodes. 121 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,960 I will recommend episode 39, Joyce McKinney. 122 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:39,640 If you've not heard that one yet, there is no death involved and it's actually a pretty 123 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:41,040 interesting story. 124 00:06:41,040 --> 00:06:44,160 I can't wait to hear, but I already know that I'm going to cry. 125 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,440 Oh, do you know this story already? 126 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,600 No, anything involving a death of a child is going to make me cry. 127 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,160 I know. 128 00:06:51,160 --> 00:06:59,600 Well in February of 1957, a hunter came across a bassinet box in the Fox Chase neighborhood 129 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,360 near Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 130 00:07:02,360 --> 00:07:09,060 Inside the box was a boy's remains who to this day Shelbs, 65 years later has never 131 00:07:09,060 --> 00:07:10,640 been identified. 132 00:07:10,640 --> 00:07:11,640 Wow. 133 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:15,600 What would you do if you were in the woods and you came across something like this? 134 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:16,600 I would be terrified. 135 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:17,600 Yeah. 136 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:19,200 Well guess what the hunter did? 137 00:07:19,200 --> 00:07:20,200 Left it? 138 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:21,200 Yep. 139 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:23,880 He went on his merry way and continued to hunt as usual. 140 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:24,880 No. 141 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:30,280 The hunter did because he did not want the police interfering with his illegal muskrat 142 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:34,720 traps that he had set in the woods when he came across the boy. 143 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,720 Well illegal or not, that's not what you should do if you find some remains. 144 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:40,720 Exactly. 145 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:47,760 Well, a few days later on February 25th, 1957, a college student by the name of Frederick 146 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:56,160 Bononice was walking near Susquehanna Road, which is in the 700 block near Vare Road and 147 00:07:56,160 --> 00:07:59,560 Pennyback Park in Northeast Philadelphia. 148 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,880 And Shelby, basically what I like to do is I like to give a lot of identifiers when I'm 149 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:11,240 talking just because especially in cold cases, maybe some of our listeners may know the area 150 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:12,240 pretty well. 151 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,760 So I try to give as much of that information as possible so they could obviously go back 152 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,280 and refer to that if they needed to. 153 00:08:19,280 --> 00:08:22,740 But what was Frederick doing in this area? 154 00:08:22,740 --> 00:08:23,740 You ask? 155 00:08:23,740 --> 00:08:24,740 What was he doing? 156 00:08:24,740 --> 00:08:30,320 He was spying on some girls in a home for wayward youth, like a peeping Tom. 157 00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:31,560 Oh my. 158 00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:39,480 Frederick stated that he had seen a cute little bunny hopping into the woods and he knew that 159 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:41,960 this forest was known for hunting. 160 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,040 So he set off to save the bunny. 161 00:08:44,040 --> 00:08:45,440 Isn't that sweet? 162 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:51,680 It is sweet, but that's not typically something I would think I would see a man doing, maybe 163 00:08:51,680 --> 00:08:52,680 a woman. 164 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:53,880 Yeah, that's true. 165 00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:58,280 His whole point of being in that area shelves later, he confessed that he was a peeping 166 00:08:58,280 --> 00:08:59,280 Tom. 167 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:00,280 Oh. 168 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,280 Yep. 169 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:03,240 The story goes two ways here. 170 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:08,760 Frederick was either playing a peeping Tom near the Foxchase Woodline when he came across 171 00:09:08,760 --> 00:09:15,780 the box or he really was looking around the woods for those traps in order to save the 172 00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:16,780 bunny. 173 00:09:16,780 --> 00:09:21,920 Regardless, when he came upon the box, Frederick didn't really think very much of it. 174 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:26,560 He thought it was a doll and went on his merry way, just like the hunter did. 175 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,200 Oh wow. 176 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,200 A doll? 177 00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:30,200 Yeah. 178 00:09:30,200 --> 00:09:36,280 There's a couple times when I've heard several stories, not just in our own podcast, but 179 00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:41,520 other podcasts that I listen to, that sometimes eyewitnesses are just passing by and they 180 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,960 think they are looking at a mannequin or a doll or something of that sort. 181 00:09:46,960 --> 00:09:49,160 So they don't really think anything of it. 182 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:50,160 Oh. 183 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:55,080 Well, the next day Frederick heard on the local news that a four-year-old girl had gone 184 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:56,080 missing. 185 00:09:56,080 --> 00:10:01,520 So he did do the right thing and he called the police to mention his findings in the 186 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:03,960 woods thinking, okay, well, wait a minute. 187 00:10:03,960 --> 00:10:08,520 I did see something odd yesterday, so maybe I'd better report that. 188 00:10:08,520 --> 00:10:10,500 That's when everything clicked with him. 189 00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:13,180 So he did call the police. 190 00:10:13,180 --> 00:10:18,260 Before I continue, I just wanted to make mention that the little girl that was found or the 191 00:10:18,260 --> 00:10:22,960 little girl that was missing was found in an abandoned home. 192 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:25,700 There was no foul play involved. 193 00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:29,240 According to what I read though, it looked like she did starve to death. 194 00:10:29,240 --> 00:10:31,160 Oh, that's so sad. 195 00:10:31,160 --> 00:10:32,160 Yeah. 196 00:10:32,160 --> 00:10:33,400 Think about it too, Shelbs. 197 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:36,520 At four years old, you don't have a sense of direction. 198 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,040 You really are not paying attention to your surroundings. 199 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:43,840 I can see her wandering off and getting lost. 200 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:47,880 I mean, I don't know what the neighborhood was like, but I'll be giving some statistics 201 00:10:47,880 --> 00:10:50,220 at the end of this episode. 202 00:10:50,220 --> 00:10:57,480 So my thoughts are that she would probably be amongst some of the children that go missing 203 00:10:57,480 --> 00:11:02,200 that I will mention a little bit later and they just get lost and can't find their way 204 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:03,200 home. 205 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,320 Oh, yeah. 206 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:13,100 Frederick was investigated as a suspect in the boy's death, but took and passed a polygraph. 207 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:19,420 So he was cleared of any involvement beyond finding the boy in the box in the woods. 208 00:11:19,420 --> 00:11:24,560 And for consistency going forward, I am going to refer to the boy as John Doe. 209 00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:28,200 I'm going to kind of talk about the investigation of the boy first. 210 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:34,800 John Doe was believed to be between the ages of three and seven years old, primarily because 211 00:11:34,800 --> 00:11:37,920 he still had all of his baby teeth when he was found. 212 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:40,160 And Shelby, I mean, it's pretty fresh in your mind. 213 00:11:40,160 --> 00:11:44,280 I think that most children lose their teeth between seven and eight. 214 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:45,280 Is that right? 215 00:11:45,280 --> 00:11:46,280 Yeah. 216 00:11:46,280 --> 00:11:48,180 I think mine started losing them a little earlier. 217 00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:54,240 My oldest still has quite a few baby teeth left and she's 12, but the eight-year-old 218 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,680 has lost all of her baby teeth. 219 00:11:56,680 --> 00:11:57,680 Wow. 220 00:11:57,680 --> 00:11:58,680 Okay. 221 00:11:58,680 --> 00:12:03,400 Well, based on those findings, authorities believe that the boy was born somewhere around 222 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,880 the year of 1952. 223 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:12,520 And police believe someone may have passed this boy off as a girl because chunks of long 224 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:19,080 hair had been shaven from John Doe's head and some of the locks were still inside the 225 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:20,080 box. 226 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,440 He basically got a really choppy haircut. 227 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:27,100 It wasn't anything professional from a barbershop by any means. 228 00:12:27,100 --> 00:12:32,680 There also appeared to be an evidence that someone had plucked John Doe's eyebrows to 229 00:12:32,680 --> 00:12:34,880 make them appear a little more feminine. 230 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:35,880 Wow. 231 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:41,160 I was wondering before you mentioned the eyebrow plucking, if maybe the boy had just gotten 232 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:44,600 a hold of pair of scissors because that's very common for that age. 233 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,560 Oh, I think you know from experience, right? 234 00:12:47,560 --> 00:12:48,560 Yes. 235 00:12:48,560 --> 00:12:54,400 I think I remember you cutting your cousin's bangs one time and I got in trouble for that. 236 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:55,400 Thank you very much. 237 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,600 I vaguely remember that. 238 00:12:57,600 --> 00:12:58,600 Yeah. 239 00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:05,760 Well, my response was, what are you doing with scissors unattended in the toy room? 240 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:06,760 Right? 241 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:13,680 Anyway, John Doe was naked and wrapped in what appeared to be a flannel blanket with 242 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:15,080 a weird design. 243 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:21,440 I can't quite describe, but the best I can do is to say that it looks maybe like a Navajo 244 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,160 or Native American pattern. 245 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:29,600 You know what you would see from the Western States, Arizona, New Mexico, things like from 246 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,600 that region? 247 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:31,600 I do, yes. 248 00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:32,600 Yeah. 249 00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:39,640 So the blanket was later found to be mass produced in North Carolina or in Quebec, Canada, 250 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:45,800 which would have made it virtually impossible to track down or even figure out which stores 251 00:13:45,800 --> 00:13:47,240 it had been sold to. 252 00:13:47,240 --> 00:13:48,560 It was that mass produced. 253 00:13:48,560 --> 00:13:50,760 It was like looking for a needle in a haystack. 254 00:13:50,760 --> 00:13:52,480 That's what it sounds like. 255 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:59,520 Police fingerprinted and footprinted John Doe, but never had any luck identifying him, 256 00:13:59,520 --> 00:14:05,920 which led them to believe that the boy could possibly not have been born in any hospital 257 00:14:05,920 --> 00:14:06,920 system. 258 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,560 He could have been born at home. 259 00:14:08,560 --> 00:14:12,680 I don't think it was popular at that time, but it was not unheard of. 260 00:14:12,680 --> 00:14:15,600 So he just wasn't documented possibly? 261 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:16,960 He was not documented. 262 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:18,240 Yeah, exactly. 263 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,240 I think so. 264 00:14:19,240 --> 00:14:20,640 And I'll get into that in just a little bit. 265 00:14:20,640 --> 00:14:26,040 So as far as theories are concerned, things look to be stacking up against the authorities 266 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,160 because they just didn't have a good identification of the boy. 267 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:35,400 They didn't really know because of the weather, Shelby, it was, what did I say, February? 268 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:37,600 They just didn't have a whole lot of information. 269 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:42,920 February in Pennsylvania is very, very cold. 270 00:14:42,920 --> 00:14:45,320 So in those conditions... 271 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,040 Lots of snow, I would assume. 272 00:14:47,040 --> 00:14:48,040 Yeah. 273 00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,560 And the conditions would preserve the body. 274 00:14:50,560 --> 00:14:54,760 So it was difficult for the police to come up with a timeline as far as how long the 275 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:56,640 boy was in the box. 276 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:03,360 And because he was so well preserved, let me talk to you now about the autopsy. 277 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:10,520 John Doe looked to be quite dirty and malnourished, which could have stunted his growth and could 278 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:15,000 have potentially made him appear younger than he actually was. 279 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:20,800 He had blue eyes, was fair-skinned, and was somewhere around three feet tall. 280 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,360 And Shelby, he only weighed 30 pounds. 281 00:15:23,360 --> 00:15:24,360 Oh my. 282 00:15:24,360 --> 00:15:25,360 Yeah. 283 00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:31,400 I did go look up a chart to see how much a male would weigh. 284 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:37,240 And I would say that's probably a good 15 pounds lighter than he should be if he were 285 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:38,240 seven. 286 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,120 But if he were younger, then it could be on par. 287 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:43,460 I'm not really sure. 288 00:15:43,460 --> 00:15:50,120 The medical examiner believed that John Doe had a chronic eye problem, which he had been 289 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:55,280 treated for because apparently they had found some sort of eye drops in his eyes. 290 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:59,920 He had neatly trimmed fingernails, but his hair was matted. 291 00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:05,680 And again, I had mentioned that he had lots of tufts of hair just on his person when he 292 00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:07,440 was found in that box. 293 00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:09,360 Now this was pretty interesting. 294 00:16:09,360 --> 00:16:14,960 John Doe had some surgical scars on his ankle, groin, and chin. 295 00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:19,720 So you would think that there would be some kind of documentation along the way where 296 00:16:19,720 --> 00:16:22,560 he had had some kind of surgical procedures. 297 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:27,160 But I'll tell you why in just a little while why police couldn't find any information on 298 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:28,160 that. 299 00:16:28,160 --> 00:16:34,760 John Doe's autopsy showed blunt force trauma to the skull and four bruises on his forehead. 300 00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:40,800 He also had bruises all over his body and a bloody lip, and he was so malnourished that 301 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,200 you could distinctly see his ribs under his skin. 302 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,840 Oh, that's sad. 303 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:53,920 There were no signs that any of his bones had been broken and authorities believe that 304 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:57,400 he suffered years of abuse before he died. 305 00:16:57,400 --> 00:16:58,920 That poor child. 306 00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,080 Absolutely. 307 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:06,880 The autopsy also revealed baked beans in his system and his fingers were wrinkled like 308 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:11,120 what you would see if you were in the water too long, like in the bathtub. 309 00:17:11,120 --> 00:17:14,960 I know that you've played in the bathtub long enough or your girls have been in the bathtub 310 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,080 long enough to get wrinkly fingers. 311 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:23,600 Yes, John Doe's throat still contained vomit residue indicating that he had gotten sick 312 00:17:23,600 --> 00:17:25,240 before he died. 313 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:30,320 Although the medical examiner believed that he had not eaten for probably around three 314 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,720 hours before he passed. 315 00:17:32,720 --> 00:17:36,660 Police did their best to locate any missing children in the area. 316 00:17:36,660 --> 00:17:43,600 They checked local orphanages, hospitals and foster homes in and around Philadelphia, which 317 00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:46,400 you know, Shelby is a metropolitan area. 318 00:17:46,400 --> 00:17:49,740 So I want you to think about how big Atlanta is. 319 00:17:49,740 --> 00:17:56,640 So again, trying to locate as much information on a child that they really have no leads 320 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,360 that would be extremely difficult to do. 321 00:17:59,360 --> 00:18:02,600 And such a large area too. 322 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:07,600 Forensic teams eventually conducted facial reconstruction on John Doe and were able to 323 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:11,000 develop a better identification of the boy. 324 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:20,000 This allowed them to publish John Doe's picture on news media and placed over 400,000 flyers 325 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:26,080 in gas and electric bills mailed out to local residents throughout Pennsylvania. 326 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,040 And I've seen those flyers, those inserts. 327 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:33,240 That is a lot of flyers. 328 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,240 Yes it is. 329 00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:35,800 And that tells you how big the area is. 330 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:42,560 So before distributing the flyers shelves, authorities dressed John Doe up, propped him 331 00:18:42,560 --> 00:18:48,400 up on a chair and took his photo, making it appear that he was alive. 332 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:52,600 That is the most awful thing I have ever heard. 333 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:59,200 I think they did this because they did not want to give the perception that the boy was 334 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:00,380 deceased. 335 00:19:00,380 --> 00:19:01,640 Just in case somebody came forward. 336 00:19:01,640 --> 00:19:03,280 What do you think of that? 337 00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:06,080 Is that what they sent in the flyers? 338 00:19:06,080 --> 00:19:08,120 Yep, they sure did. 339 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,360 Did they not have sketch artists? 340 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:11,360 What year was this? 341 00:19:11,360 --> 00:19:12,360 57. 342 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:14,560 So they should have had sketch artists by then. 343 00:19:14,560 --> 00:19:16,320 That is a great point. 344 00:19:16,320 --> 00:19:18,540 I don't know why I didn't think of that. 345 00:19:18,540 --> 00:19:20,720 But yeah, that's what they sent out. 346 00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:25,240 And if you were to look and I'll see if I can put this picture on our social media, 347 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:27,440 but I don't know what the tactic was all about. 348 00:19:27,440 --> 00:19:31,000 I just think that they wanted it to appear that he was alive. 349 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,000 And if as realistic as possible, I guess that was their mindset. 350 00:19:35,000 --> 00:19:37,120 But absolutely, you are so right. 351 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:43,360 I think a sketch artist photo would have been just as effective in this case. 352 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:49,880 I mean, had the parents come forward or somebody come forward to claim him thinking that he 353 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:54,200 was alive and then to find out that's what they did. 354 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:56,880 That is awful. 355 00:19:56,880 --> 00:20:03,120 Police also published an article in a pediatric journal with the hopes that a physician might 356 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:09,360 come forward to say that they had performed that surgery on a boy with this description. 357 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:14,640 Nothing in the articles that I found say that the police followed up on local eye doctors. 358 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:18,240 I had mentioned the eye drops they had found in his eyes. 359 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:23,200 Maybe they were thinking that the journal would also attract eye doctors to the article. 360 00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:28,960 And Shelbs, you had mentioned if parents had come forward, unfortunately, no one did. 361 00:20:28,960 --> 00:20:34,520 From those flyers that were distributed, nobody came forward to report a missing boy. 362 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:41,360 I will say that families from 10 surrounding states drove all the way to Philadelphia to 363 00:20:41,360 --> 00:20:45,680 attempt to identify John Doe to no avail. 364 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:52,040 I mean, how sad is that that 10 families came from all different directions to identify 365 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,580 a little boy under this description? 366 00:20:54,580 --> 00:20:56,400 What does that tell you Shelbs? 367 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:02,160 That they probably didn't have the news outlets that we do today. 368 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:07,420 If they sent out the flyers, those can only go so far. 369 00:21:07,420 --> 00:21:12,320 It makes me wonder, I guess, how they found, how the people, the families in the surrounding 370 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:17,740 states found out about the boy, but I just couldn't imagine that drive home knowing that 371 00:21:17,740 --> 00:21:20,040 it wasn't who they were looking for. 372 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:25,840 I know, but the question to me is why were 10 families looking for a little boy with 373 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:26,840 that description? 374 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:31,900 That's a lot of people looking for lost boys, don't you think? 375 00:21:31,900 --> 00:21:32,900 Very much so. 376 00:21:32,900 --> 00:21:37,680 I'm wondering if the surgeries were done at home. 377 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:40,280 Yeah, or another state. 378 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:41,280 That's true. 379 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,280 That's true. 380 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:47,480 And you have to remember back in that era, a lot of these agencies did not communicate 381 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:48,600 with one another. 382 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:54,160 So if you were in the small town where you live, your authorities are going to manage 383 00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:59,860 a case without talking to the next town down or the next town down or the big city. 384 00:21:59,860 --> 00:22:03,400 They're just going to be treating it like a local case. 385 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,380 That's true, especially back then. 386 00:22:05,380 --> 00:22:12,100 In the meantime, 270 investigators combed the crime scene in the woods outside of that 387 00:22:12,100 --> 00:22:18,080 Fox Chase neighborhood and were able to come up with some possible evidence there. 388 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:25,440 A royal blue corduroy cap was discovered near the area where the box was found, as well 389 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:32,320 as a tan colored child's scarf, plus a handkerchief with the initial G embroidered in the corner. 390 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:37,920 And back in the day, Shelbs embroidery was very popular as were handkerchiefs. 391 00:22:37,920 --> 00:22:43,720 So that would be difficult to follow up on, at least a handkerchief anyway. 392 00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:50,160 The corduroy cap, on the other hand, held a manufacturer's tag inside and police were 393 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,800 able to track down the shop owner who had customized it. 394 00:22:53,800 --> 00:23:01,000 The shop owner had identified a man who was blonde between the age of 26 and 30, had no 395 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:05,240 definable accent and paid cash for the purchase. 396 00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:11,840 Of course, with cash purchases back in those days, at least police had absolutely no record 397 00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:13,400 of the transaction. 398 00:23:13,400 --> 00:23:17,940 So this led the suspect to an abrupt halt. 399 00:23:17,940 --> 00:23:21,520 There was nothing more that they could do to try to track this person down. 400 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,640 I'm sure that made it a lot more difficult. 401 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:24,640 I know. 402 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:29,840 I am going to move on to the investigation of the box itself. 403 00:23:29,840 --> 00:23:33,360 The police actually had a pretty good lead on it. 404 00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:39,520 I had mentioned that the box John Doe had been found in was a bassinet box. 405 00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:46,040 Police were able to trace the box back to a JCPenney store in Upper Derby, Pennsylvania, 406 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,920 located on 69th and Chestnut Street. 407 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:56,800 Authorities determined that a white bassinet had been sold between December 5th, 1956 and 408 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,400 February 16th, 1957. 409 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:07,920 Fortunately, it looks like JCPenney only sold 12 bassinets during that time period, but 410 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:14,120 unfortunately all identified purchasers led to a dead end in the investigation. 411 00:24:14,120 --> 00:24:15,520 So there you go again. 412 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:16,720 There is another lead. 413 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:17,720 I wonder why that was. 414 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:19,520 I mean, I don't know. 415 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:24,360 I would assume they probably didn't have security cameras. 416 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:25,360 Not in 1957. 417 00:24:25,360 --> 00:24:27,000 No, it really didn't come out. 418 00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,480 I mean, surveillance as prevalent as it is today, it really didn't come out until after 419 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:37,780 the new millennium because that's when computers are now in every household. 420 00:24:37,780 --> 00:24:42,480 We have this online streaming capabilities, Bluetooth and everything else. 421 00:24:42,480 --> 00:24:48,240 So they absolutely did not have any of that functionality back in 1957. 422 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:54,720 Now I wanted to mention one of the medical examiner employees by the name of Remington 423 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:55,720 Bristow. 424 00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,240 That is such a cool name. 425 00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:05,880 Remington felt deeply connected to this case and worked more than 36 years on this case 426 00:25:05,880 --> 00:25:11,840 on his own time with the hopes of finding the person responsible for John Doe's death. 427 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:13,920 36 years, Shelby. 428 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:14,920 Very dedicated. 429 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:15,920 Yeah. 430 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:22,440 Remington went so far as to publish a fake article in the paper hoping to draw out anyone 431 00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:27,680 who may be responsible, but unfortunately this ploy was unsuccessful. 432 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:33,160 I believe that he did state that the boy had been found injured and made no mention of 433 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:34,440 the true details. 434 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:38,720 Kind of like that flyer that was sent out to 400,000 people. 435 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:43,480 They made it look like the boy was alive, which we know in this case was completely 436 00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:44,920 opposite. 437 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:51,840 Remington also put $1,000 of his own money as a reward up for any information leading 438 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:53,360 to an arrest. 439 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:57,880 And I looked this up, Shelbs, that would be close to $10,000 today. 440 00:25:57,880 --> 00:25:58,880 Wow. 441 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,480 What a good man. 442 00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:02,360 Yeah, absolutely. 443 00:26:02,360 --> 00:26:04,760 We need more people like that in this world, don't we? 444 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:05,760 We do. 445 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:12,320 Remington traveled extensively throughout the United States following leads on this 446 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:18,520 case and even kept a mask molded from John Doe's face in his briefcase so that he could 447 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,200 show people a true image of what the boy really looked like. 448 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:23,720 What do you think of that? 449 00:26:23,720 --> 00:26:25,440 I think that's a little off. 450 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:26,960 I would say the same thing. 451 00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,840 That's kind of what I was thinking. 452 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,520 Very a picture, a sketch, preferably. 453 00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:33,840 Yeah, and it's bulky too. 454 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:35,240 Bulky in the briefcase. 455 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:36,240 For sure. 456 00:26:36,240 --> 00:26:39,400 Yeah, it looks like a mask that you would wear at Halloween. 457 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:44,200 I was envisioning the Drew Carey, the mask. 458 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,680 Actually that would not be a, you're not far off. 459 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:47,680 Let's put it that way. 460 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:48,680 Okay. 461 00:26:48,680 --> 00:26:49,680 All right. 462 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:55,280 So I'm going to talk about multiple theories behind the boy in the box, and I'm going to 463 00:26:55,280 --> 00:27:01,160 say there are at least a half a dozen theories behind John Doe's identification, but I'm 464 00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,680 just going to talk about three of them that seem to have a little bit more substance than 465 00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:06,920 the rest. 466 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:13,080 Theory number one, a psychic, by the way, Shelby, back in the 50s, psychics were used 467 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,760 a lot in cases like this. 468 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,200 Oh, that's interesting. 469 00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:18,200 Yeah. 470 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:24,720 So a psychic reported that the boy had been in foster care and likely died in a mansion 471 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:26,640 where he had been placed. 472 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:32,160 When police investigated, they uncovered a couple of interesting details. 473 00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:38,480 Police originally theorized that John Doe could have belonged to the daughter of the 474 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,920 foster parents who lived in the house back in 1957, and that the boy's death could have 475 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:49,960 been accidental, or it was a cover up for an illegitimate child. 476 00:27:49,960 --> 00:27:57,080 Now again, back in the 1950s, Shelbs, having a child out of wedlock was extremely taboo. 477 00:27:57,080 --> 00:28:03,160 So they could have possibly covered up having the daughter having an illegitimate child 478 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:06,720 at the time, and authorities could not prove that theory. 479 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:13,440 But before the foster family moved away, Shelby, the foster father refused to take a polygraph 480 00:28:13,440 --> 00:28:14,760 test. 481 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:15,760 That's interesting. 482 00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:16,760 Isn't it? 483 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:17,760 I thought so too. 484 00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:20,680 I mean, you can't make them, and plus it doesn't hold up in court. 485 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:27,240 So there's multiple reasons, but we know just from our obsession with true crime that when 486 00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,000 people don't take a polygraph test, they're going to be bumped up on the suspect list, 487 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:33,000 right? 488 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:34,000 Absolutely. 489 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,160 Something's fishy. 490 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:41,000 After the foster family moved away, the new owners had an estate sale, and one of the 491 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:47,800 investigators happened to follow up and go to the estate sale amongst the items in the 492 00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:53,880 sale was a white bassinet, which fit the description of the furniture box that John Doe was found 493 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:54,880 in. 494 00:28:54,880 --> 00:29:00,240 Now remember, John Doe could have potentially been living in that house. 495 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:06,200 Blankets with the same pattern that John Doe was wrapped in were seen hanging on the clothesline 496 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:11,120 at the estate, but by this time the foster family was long gone. 497 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:16,760 I guess so my question is why would the new family have blankets that were similar to 498 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,680 the ones John Doe was wrapped in? 499 00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:20,760 I was thinking the same thing. 500 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:26,760 Did the original family that lived there just leave everything because that's a bunch of 501 00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:27,840 red flags. 502 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,360 I think so too. 503 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:34,000 Now I don't even know if authorities were able to follow up on where the foster family 504 00:29:34,000 --> 00:29:38,040 moved to, but it does sound like they left a ton behind. 505 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:44,040 With all that, there's definitely some coincidences here with the bassinet at the estate sale 506 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:46,560 and the blankets hanging on the clothesline. 507 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:51,360 There was no other evidence that could be collected and the police moved on, which I 508 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,520 felt was a little odd. 509 00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:57,720 Yeah, to me it just sounds like there's a little bit more there. 510 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:04,920 Well, moving on to theory number two, police believed John Doe could be the son of migrant 511 00:30:04,920 --> 00:30:08,560 carnival workers, Kenneth and Irene Dudley. 512 00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:14,840 It was not uncommon at the time during this era, Shelbs, for migrant children to die of 513 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:18,320 malnutrition or to simply go missing. 514 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,080 And the Dudleys had 10 kids to keep up with. 515 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:23,680 That's a lot. 516 00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:25,360 Yes it is. 517 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:31,080 One of the Dudley children had already died of malnutrition and they had not given her 518 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,880 a proper burial. 519 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:39,240 Instead, the Dudleys wrapped their child up in a blanket and buried her in a shallow grave 520 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,260 in some woods close by. 521 00:30:41,260 --> 00:30:42,760 How interesting is that? 522 00:30:42,760 --> 00:30:45,080 That's a coincidence as well, I would say. 523 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:46,080 I know. 524 00:30:46,080 --> 00:30:50,880 That's why we have so many of these theories, but it's interesting too how they're all coming 525 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:51,880 to a dead end. 526 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:52,880 It is. 527 00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:59,320 But I will mention too, many times carnival workers in the day were very poor and did 528 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:03,880 not possess valid papers upon migrating to the US. 529 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,760 So as we would call that today, undocumented immigrants. 530 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:13,680 Based on these circumstances, the police were never able to validate John Doe's connection 531 00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:15,400 to the Dudley family. 532 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:18,880 So of course, everything once again came to a dead end. 533 00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,040 That theory to me doesn't seem as, I don't know, theory number one still stands out to 534 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,040 me. 535 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:29,440 Yeah, I think maybe because there was just a little bit more evidence and at this point 536 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,320 in time they could just be grasping at straws. 537 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:37,680 But again, if they were given a lead off of any of those 400,000 flyers, they have to 538 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:39,840 follow up on everything, eh? 539 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:40,840 Absolutely. 540 00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:46,080 Theory number three, and to me this one sounds the most plausible and you'll see why in just 541 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:52,040 a moment, a woman that we are going to call M gave multiple accounts of events that she 542 00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:56,160 believes should lead directly to John Doe's identity. 543 00:31:56,160 --> 00:31:57,160 And here's why. 544 00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:03,040 M reported to the police that John Doe was obtained through sex trafficking by her own 545 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,040 mother. 546 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:06,680 Oh my goodness. 547 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:11,920 And he was given the name Jonathan and lived in their residence for several years in the 548 00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:18,920 basement of their home where he slept on a bed made out of a cardboard box, placed inside 549 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,080 a coal bin, and only had a drain for a bathroom. 550 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,820 I'm going to call this boy Jonathan just for a moment while we are talking about this theory 551 00:32:28,820 --> 00:32:32,640 because M does refer to him frequently. 552 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:38,080 So just for consistency during this portion, I am going to refer to him as Jonathan. 553 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:43,360 One night, Jonathan vomited up his dinner, which included baked beans. 554 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:49,440 Now, I had mentioned to you that baked beans were found in John Doe's system, remember, 555 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:50,440 from the autopsy? 556 00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:51,440 I do remember. 557 00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:58,840 I'm just very glad, I guess, that they were feeding him on occasion, but don't understand 558 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,200 why they couldn't give him a decent place to sleep. 559 00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:02,200 I know. 560 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:03,200 That's so sad. 561 00:33:03,200 --> 00:33:09,680 I do want to mention too that at the time, the findings from the autopsy with the beans 562 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:15,420 being undigested in his system had not been released to any media outlets. 563 00:33:15,420 --> 00:33:20,440 So this is one of the reasons why I would think that the police were looking at this 564 00:33:20,440 --> 00:33:24,220 case or this theory a little more closely. 565 00:33:24,220 --> 00:33:30,440 And according to M, her mother had become extremely angry when Jonathan threw up and 566 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:35,720 went to go give him a bath, but not before she bashed his head on the bathroom floor 567 00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:36,720 several times. 568 00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,840 That is so sad. 569 00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:40,960 I know. 570 00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:46,120 I know, Shelby, these poor little innocent children that just can't defend themselves. 571 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:51,300 Now, I know that you have a child who is not feeling really well and you were cleaning 572 00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:58,160 up some stuff in the last 24 hours, but there's just no way I could even imagine taking it 573 00:33:58,160 --> 00:33:59,420 out on a child. 574 00:33:59,420 --> 00:34:04,360 You can't help it when they get sick and they definitely can't defend themselves. 575 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:06,080 Absolutely not. 576 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,080 Nope. 577 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:12,960 According to M, Jonathan died while he was in the bathtub, likely from his head injury. 578 00:34:12,960 --> 00:34:18,520 M stated that her mother wrapped him in a blanket and they both went out into the woods 579 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,840 to dispose of his body. 580 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:25,760 Wouldn't she be able to show them where they disposed of the body? 581 00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:31,200 I'm going to tell you, I did not put these in my notes, but I do remember seeing something 582 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:37,400 along those lines that she did take them out to the area that they had dropped John Doe 583 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:38,400 off. 584 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:44,520 It was accurate to the geographical location of where he was found. 585 00:34:44,520 --> 00:34:47,100 To me, this is why it's so plausible. 586 00:34:47,100 --> 00:34:52,520 This theory probably has the most substance and accuracy out of all of them. 587 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:59,920 So I'm not really sure why they didn't take her seriously, but I will say that the investigators 588 00:34:59,920 --> 00:35:05,880 did interview several neighbors and friends of the woman who M had accused of killing 589 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,960 Jonathan and none of them had ever seen this boy around their house. 590 00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:14,920 But that's understandable if he was kept in the basement. 591 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:16,440 Yeah, I agree. 592 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:22,480 Ultimately, police took M's accounts with a grain of salt and brushed off her reports 593 00:35:22,480 --> 00:35:27,480 because of all things, Shelby, she had a history of mental illness. 594 00:35:27,480 --> 00:35:36,160 What I don't understand is if she's providing information to the investigators that wasn't 595 00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:43,920 released to the public, such as the baked beans, then how is her story not considered 596 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:45,200 credible? 597 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:46,480 Exactly. 598 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,380 Mental health issues are not. 599 00:35:48,380 --> 00:35:50,920 Somebody has that much information to give. 600 00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:53,680 I think they do need to take it a little bit seriously. 601 00:35:53,680 --> 00:36:01,520 And maybe just because it was back in 1957, maybe mental illnesses weren't as normal. 602 00:36:01,520 --> 00:36:06,320 Yeah, they didn't approach mental health the same way that they do today. 603 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:07,320 So you're right. 604 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:12,620 They had a lot of institutions, but were these people really being helped in those institutions 605 00:36:12,620 --> 00:36:14,600 or were they just institutionalized? 606 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,440 Yeah, back in the day, they would just stick them in a mental health hospital and they 607 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:22,480 didn't treat them like they would today. 608 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:28,960 Long story short, they thought M was absolutely genuine in her accounts, but they did not 609 00:36:28,960 --> 00:36:33,140 trust her because of her mental illness, which is a shame. 610 00:36:33,140 --> 00:36:36,200 They really should have followed up on that a little bit more, I think. 611 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,200 They should have. 612 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,560 Well, a couple of noteworthy comments in this case. 613 00:36:41,560 --> 00:36:47,720 John Walsh featured the boy in the box on one of his episodes, America's Most Wanted. 614 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:49,760 Now, he's an amazing man. 615 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:58,800 In 1998, John Doe's body was exhumed to extract DNA, but absolutely nothing came up in the 616 00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,000 databases regarding his identification. 617 00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:08,320 The same process occurred back again in the year 2000, basically with the same results. 618 00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:12,600 They could not get anything as far as his identification. 619 00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:19,720 And in 2001, DNA was removed from one of John Doe's teeth, but to this day, they simply 620 00:37:19,720 --> 00:37:21,480 don't have any results. 621 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:28,120 Now in August 2018, Shelbs, you know, just a couple of years ago, the agency that helped 622 00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:34,120 identify the Golden State Killer after all of these years announced that they are also 623 00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:40,120 conducting testing to try to help identify John Doe through familial DNA. 624 00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:45,520 And if our listeners listen to any of our other podcasts, we actually talk about familial 625 00:37:45,520 --> 00:37:47,000 DNA quite a bit. 626 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,440 To this day, this case remains unsolved. 627 00:37:50,440 --> 00:37:57,560 And the boy in the box was originally buried in a potter's field in Holmesburg, Pennsylvania, 628 00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:02,120 where his headstone read, Heavenly Father, bless this unknown child. 629 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:03,720 That made me tear up. 630 00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:04,720 Oh, I'm sorry. 631 00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,720 I don't mean to make you do that. 632 00:38:06,720 --> 00:38:08,800 Well, good news though, Shelbs. 633 00:38:08,800 --> 00:38:12,520 If you really think about it, I mean, we're going to celebrate his life here for just a 634 00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:18,520 moment because the detectives who worked on this case paid for John Doe to have a proper 635 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:24,040 burial and he was placed in Ivy Hill Cemetery located in Philadelphia. 636 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:31,240 The funeral home donated the burial plot and the Vidoch Society provided a grave marker 637 00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:35,320 that now says America's unknown child. 638 00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:42,960 Shelbs still bring flowers and stuffed animals and toys to his grave, which is amazing because 639 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:48,600 if you were to see a picture, it's just so heartwarming, Shelby, that this child is so 640 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:49,600 loved. 641 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:52,240 I think that's the worst of it, Shelbs. 642 00:38:52,240 --> 00:38:59,540 For our listeners, the Vidoch Society was founded in 1990 in Philadelphia and consists 643 00:38:59,540 --> 00:39:08,200 of volunteer forensics experts and investigators who assist law enforcement in unsolved homicides. 644 00:39:08,200 --> 00:39:14,400 Many of the volunteers in the society hold professional careers in criminal profiling, 645 00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:22,120 criminology, forensics, medical examiners, prosecutors, polygraph technicians, and retired 646 00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:24,000 law enforcement. 647 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:31,440 Volunteers meet once per month to review cases and often offer assistance in unsolved cases. 648 00:39:31,440 --> 00:39:37,500 People like you and I, Shelby, could request assistance on solving an unknown homicide 649 00:39:37,500 --> 00:39:40,180 as long as we meet certain criteria. 650 00:39:40,180 --> 00:39:46,120 There has to be a body associated with the crime, a known crime scene, plus the presence 651 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:47,840 of physical evidence. 652 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:55,360 How awesome is that that so many volunteers take time out of their day to help assist 653 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,280 with unsolved cases? 654 00:39:57,280 --> 00:39:59,000 Oh, absolutely. 655 00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:03,560 Thankfully, we haven't had anything like this go on in our town, but I would absolutely 656 00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:06,720 volunteer my time to do that. 657 00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:08,880 If I had that background, I sure would too. 658 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:15,760 Well, to be clear, the Vidoch Society does not conduct independent investigations nor 659 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:19,560 take over any investigations like the FBI would. 660 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:25,000 It's simply a society that assists with open cases. 661 00:40:25,000 --> 00:40:32,160 And the Vidoch Society only becomes involved if local law enforcement asks them to, so 662 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:34,360 they're not going to come forward and offer anything. 663 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:36,080 They have to be invited. 664 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:40,600 And only then do they offer guidance in an ongoing case. 665 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,040 Very interesting. 666 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:49,840 Law enforcement officials' latest conclusion from this case is John Doe is an undocumented 667 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:55,700 immigrant, which is why they have never been able to solve this case. 668 00:40:55,700 --> 00:41:04,040 They went so far as to review around 11,000 passports, but still cannot find anyone similar 669 00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:08,000 to a person that might match John Doe's description. 670 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:15,480 So that shall be in a nutshell is the story of the Boy in the Box, which is a 65-year-old 671 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,920 unsolved case out of Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. 672 00:41:18,920 --> 00:41:24,680 And for our listeners, if you have any information on this case, you should contact the Philadelphia 673 00:41:24,680 --> 00:41:37,560 Police Homicide Division at 215-686-3334 or the Philadelphia Medical Examiner at 215-685-7444. 674 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:44,280 Or 215-685-7458. 675 00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:47,600 And that's the case of the Boy in the Box. 676 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:49,600 I enjoyed listening. 677 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:50,600 Thank you very much. 678 00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:56,120 I do hope that someone comes forward with some more information so that they can solve 679 00:41:56,120 --> 00:41:57,120 this case. 680 00:41:57,120 --> 00:41:58,120 Absolutely. 681 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:01,800 In today's times, there's not one case that cannot be solved. 682 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:08,520 I know it may take some time, but surely we have enough tools and technology to help us 683 00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:09,520 out. 684 00:42:09,520 --> 00:42:15,320 But let's hope one day this case, let's give John a name and an identity. 685 00:42:15,320 --> 00:42:17,120 I really hope so too. 686 00:42:17,120 --> 00:42:19,580 Now, I'll tell you what. 687 00:42:19,580 --> 00:42:25,600 Since you're filling in today, it's been a while and I've been giving teachable moments. 688 00:42:25,600 --> 00:42:29,960 And I wondered if you are interested in listening to one today. 689 00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:30,960 Absolutely. 690 00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:32,840 What is your teachable moment for the day? 691 00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:35,800 Well, it's not a teachable moment per se. 692 00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:41,120 I'm actually going to give you some statistics that I believe will serve as my teachable 693 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:42,120 moment. 694 00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:51,320 According to the Center for Missing and Exploited Children, there are about 1,000 to 1,300 unidentified 695 00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:56,360 deceased children across the United States at any given time. 696 00:42:56,360 --> 00:42:57,360 That's a pretty big number. 697 00:42:57,360 --> 00:43:00,560 That's a huge number. 698 00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:06,640 One in 10,000 are eventually found, unfortunately, deceased. 699 00:43:06,640 --> 00:43:10,320 Some are endangered runaways, others are abducted. 700 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,000 And believe it or not, Shelby, some are simply abandoned. 701 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:21,600 35% of all missing cases involve a minor and have a lot to do with noncustodial parents 702 00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,680 losing custody of their child. 703 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:32,880 In 2019, over 421,000 children were reported missing in the United States. 704 00:43:32,880 --> 00:43:36,480 So you know this number is much higher today. 705 00:43:36,480 --> 00:43:42,920 An estimated 40,000 sets of remains every year go unidentified. 706 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:50,280 Over 112,000 children go missing in the United Kingdom on average every year, which breaks 707 00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:56,080 down to one child going missing every two minutes in Europe alone. 708 00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,120 Oh my. 709 00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,640 Millions, Shelby. 710 00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:06,520 Millions of children in India go missing every year and are believed to be sent out into 711 00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,800 forced labor or the sex trade. 712 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:16,380 Children in Africa face the same fate, although statistics are not clear other than to say 713 00:44:16,380 --> 00:44:21,420 that Nigeria tops the list of missing and exploited children. 714 00:44:21,420 --> 00:44:22,680 So that's it. 715 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:28,720 Just a little way to bring awareness to the mass amounts of children that go missing every 716 00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:29,720 year. 717 00:44:29,720 --> 00:44:31,840 To me, Shelby, this is very eye opening. 718 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:35,080 I hope it compels people to do something about it. 719 00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:36,560 I know I feel compelled. 720 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,520 I just have to figure out what there is that I can do. 721 00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,200 Just one little random act of kindness goes a long way. 722 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:48,320 And I don't know what it looks like for you because it's different for everyone. 723 00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:49,640 But we've said it before. 724 00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:52,120 It takes a village to keep our children safe. 725 00:44:52,120 --> 00:44:54,000 We just need to act on it. 726 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:58,640 So yeah, I mean, I guess I got a little teachable moment out of this even for myself. 727 00:44:58,640 --> 00:44:59,640 Wow. 728 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,140 So there you have it. 729 00:45:01,140 --> 00:45:04,000 That is the case of the boy in the box. 730 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:05,120 That's a wrap. 731 00:45:05,120 --> 00:45:06,120 That is a wrap. 732 00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:08,600 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. 733 00:45:08,600 --> 00:45:13,640 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 734 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:19,360 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 735 00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:25,240 You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking 736 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:28,020 on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 737 00:45:28,020 --> 00:45:33,520 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at BuyMeACoffee.com slash Dying 738 00:45:33,520 --> 00:45:36,760 to be Found spelled just like you see it on our logo. 739 00:45:36,760 --> 00:45:40,440 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. 740 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:41,880 Or if you'd like a sticker. 741 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:46,920 With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday, wherever you get your podcasts. 742 00:45:46,920 --> 00:46:12,760 We will talk to you all next week.