1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:04,720 Hi listeners of Dying to be Found. If you're fans of Deb and Beth like we are, we hope that 2 00:00:04,720 --> 00:00:09,840 you'll give us a try. We like them a lot and we hope that you'll like us too. I'm Beth and I'm 3 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:17,040 Bailey and we are True Crime B&B. We do a podcast every week. We release on Fridays and every week 4 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:21,600 we'll bring to you two different true crime stories. First we'll bring you a disturbing story 5 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,600 and then one that will hopefully uplift your spirits a little bit. We'd love to have you 6 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:31,200 listen to our podcast. Yeah so join us every week on Friday. Find us anywhere you find your 7 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:38,320 podcasts on Spotify, Apple, Google Podcasts. I don't know anywhere else. And also you can find 8 00:00:38,320 --> 00:00:44,560 us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at True Crime B&B. Did we even mention that we're mom and daughter? 9 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,200 No. I hope you join our crime family. Bye. Bye. 10 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:54,080 Hi everyone. This is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that 11 00:00:54,080 --> 00:01:00,960 episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 12 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:06,400 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this 13 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:15,040 podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised. Hi everyone. This is Deb from Dying to be Found. 14 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:21,200 If this is your first time listening, I want to thank you for being here today. We drop new episodes 15 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:27,760 every Thursday and if you have a storyline request, please shoot us an email, message us on Instagram, 16 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:33,120 or go to our show notes to find our storyline request under our Linktree account. And besides 17 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,880 that, we love what we do. We're a little bit of a pain in the ass. But we're going to do our best. 18 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,600 We're going to do our best to make sure that we're able to get the best out of our lives. 19 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:48,720 We love what we do, but would love it even more if you can give us a five star rating. 20 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:55,360 Now, if you are a regular listener, you may have already caught on that my sister and co-host 21 00:01:55,360 --> 00:02:01,920 Beth isn't in the studio today and I'm pretty sure she's out Christmas shopping. So I've invited two 22 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:06,960 special guests to join me today. I've been following these ladies for a little while now 23 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:13,280 and absolutely love how one plays the good guy and one plays the bad guy on their podcast. 24 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:18,960 They're a mother daughter duo from the True Crime podcast, True Crime B&B. If you've not had a 25 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:24,960 chance to check them out, you really need to do that. So without further ado, please let me 26 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:32,240 introduce Beth and Bailey from True Crime B&B. Hi guys. Hi, I'm Beth and I'm Bailey. So you can 27 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:39,920 get the voices down. Before we get started, first of all, I find it very ironic that I'm talking 28 00:02:39,920 --> 00:02:46,320 with another Beth right now. If you're regular followers, you know that my sister Beth is a 29 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:52,160 co-host on my own podcast here, but Beth, today you are not taking my sister's place and I'm going to 30 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:56,560 try not to mix the two of you guys up, but it really is nice to talk with you guys in person. 31 00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:01,120 It's very nice to talk to you too and thank you for inviting us. Yeah, absolutely. I know that 32 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:06,320 we talked a few months ago about doing a collab, so I'm really excited about this happening today. 33 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:11,920 Awesome. Well, this is going to be fun. Yeah, and Bailey, I'm so excited to meet you as well. 34 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:17,280 Yeah, I don't think we've talked. No, we haven't talked. Who was I talking to yesterday? Was that 35 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:24,880 you? Beth. Got you. Yeah, yeah, she's the millennial, but she's also, what is it I call you? The 36 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:34,240 anti-technology. Conscientious objector to technology is my millennial. Yes, yes, I got you. 37 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:39,600 But in the meantime, I get it. Beth is the same way. I'm the technology guru at our end, 38 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:45,280 so we get it done. That's really what matters, right? It is. Yeah. And Bailey, I don't know if 39 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:49,920 you've heard any of my episodes with my daughter Shelby. She fills in from time to time, but she's 40 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:56,480 around your age. Really? Yeah, she's on a couple of them. I like to do episodes where it kind of 41 00:03:56,480 --> 00:04:01,360 hits home with her and gets her aware of things. I like to do that little motherly thing from time 42 00:04:01,360 --> 00:04:06,640 to time and do an episode that's going to make her pay attention. That's right, to help her stay safe, 43 00:04:06,640 --> 00:04:11,920 because there's so much out there that she may not be cognizant of. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, 44 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:19,120 I just wanted to mention that Bailey and Beth live in Georgia, just like I do, which is kind of cool. 45 00:04:19,120 --> 00:04:23,520 So in just a couple of minutes, we're actually going to talk about a case from Georgia. But 46 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:28,480 before we do that, I thought I might ask you guys a couple questions about your own podcast. Okay, 47 00:04:28,480 --> 00:04:34,880 cool. First question, I was wondering what made you guys decide to even do a podcast together? 48 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:40,800 Well, I think it kind of goes into another question that we're often asked. People ask 49 00:04:40,800 --> 00:04:46,480 about the format. And the whole reason for us doing the podcast was because we found from our 50 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:52,560 podcast listening, that there was a niche that seemed to be not being filled. Whereas you've 51 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:58,000 listened to a lot of true crime podcasts, and they're all going to leave you down at the end, 52 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:05,600 because they're really heavy subject matter. And so we thought, what if we were to do a podcast, 53 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:10,960 and we left you with an upper story at the end on every episode. And that's kind of where we 54 00:05:10,960 --> 00:05:16,080 came from. Yeah, a lot of the main ones, they'll have a survivor story every like 10 episodes. 55 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:20,480 And we were like, well, what if we just ended on one every episode, so you don't just walk away 56 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:26,240 feeling depressed after that day. So that's what I really like about that is you're right. I mean, 57 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:32,000 a lot of what my sister Beth and I talk about is heavy subjects. I think a lot of the time we use 58 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:39,200 humor to kind of get us out of that rut, because some of the stories that we tell are just rough, 59 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:45,280 and we need palate cleansers. So I love the idea that you guys do that with your storylines. 60 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,840 Yeah. How did you decide who's going to be the bad guy, good guy? Well, it started that I was 61 00:05:49,840 --> 00:05:54,800 going to be the good guy every week. But sometimes Bailey comes with a story that she really wants to 62 00:05:54,800 --> 00:06:00,720 cover. Yeah, I think I'm just better at being the bad guy. I cry too much when it's a happy ending, 63 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:07,120 and she's way better. No, I cried too. We just edit all that out. That's where half our bloopers 64 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,240 come from is us trying to say the same sentence five times and crying every single time. 65 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:19,280 Right now I'm doing a running episode on it's not out yet. It'll be a probably a bonus episode at 66 00:06:19,280 --> 00:06:24,240 our year anniversary. You listeners, you're going to be able to listen to a whole episode of nothing 67 00:06:24,240 --> 00:06:30,480 but bloopers. And oh my gosh, we did one on the bog bodies. Holy cow, I could not get through. It 68 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,040 took me more than five minutes to stop laughing crying. That sounds awesome, though. I can't wait 69 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:41,840 for that one to come out. So when is your one year gonna be? In February, we started a little late. 70 00:06:41,840 --> 00:06:46,480 Oh, us too. Yeah, we're only just a couple episodes behind each. I think I'm just three 71 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:51,440 episodes behind you. Yeah, so you started about the same time. And it's probably because we 72 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,680 released four in the first week. And that's probably the only reason that we're even ahead of you. 73 00:06:55,680 --> 00:07:03,920 Oh, wow. So how do you guys decide on the stories that you report? A tactic I've done recently is 74 00:07:03,920 --> 00:07:09,520 because we always say we try to cover the smaller town cases and stuff that aren't in the mainstream 75 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:16,080 more often than not. But what I've been doing is just kind of Google mapping, just dropping my 76 00:07:16,080 --> 00:07:21,120 spot like anywhere in America or in the world and then just zooming in on a tiny little town 77 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:26,000 and searching homicide and see if something comes up. And I don't know, it's worked out so what so far. 78 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:33,040 I don't know. Yeah. And for me, it's a little bit harder sometimes to find uplifting survivor stories, 79 00:07:33,040 --> 00:07:38,880 because as you know, from listening to Bailey's survivor stories, they're still pretty brutal to 80 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:44,560 get through a lot of the time. Yeah. And it's hard to find them that actually have something positive 81 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:50,400 at the end that's, you know, this survivor went out and started this foundation or this survivor has 82 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:57,120 been helping domestic abuse victims and things like that. So for me, it's I start with randomly 83 00:07:57,120 --> 00:08:04,800 picking a crime like brutal knife attack survivor or something like that. And also we try to not do 84 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:09,680 every single episode in the United States because there are so many crimes that people in the United 85 00:08:09,680 --> 00:08:15,760 States will never have heard of. Because we don't hear about those crimes unless they're really big 86 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:21,680 ones. And there are people just like us everywhere in the world that have the exact same things 87 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:27,760 happening to them. So it's kind of a crapshoot every week, as far as which one of us is going 88 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:32,480 to come up with what and it's kind of fun finding the right one though, because then you get excited 89 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:37,440 and then you get to researching, you know. Yeah. And then you can go down those rabbit holes and 90 00:08:37,440 --> 00:08:42,560 turn it into something completely different. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Well, with today's story, 91 00:08:42,560 --> 00:08:48,240 I couldn't really find a ton on one of the topics that I'm going to be talking about, which is why 92 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:53,120 I'm going to end up blending it, which you know, we'll get to in a minute. But before we do, 93 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:59,360 I wanted to ask you, what is one of your favorite episodes that you would recommend to our listeners? 94 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,200 Bailey said that for her, her favorite episode is always the most recent one. 95 00:09:04,080 --> 00:09:09,760 Just because it kind of is the one that's still in our hearts the most. We get very, very involved 96 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:16,320 in these stories and you know, we sit here talking about these victims as if we knew them. Yeah. I 97 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:21,600 mean, after researching them for hours and hours and hours and watching videos of them and their 98 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,920 family mourning them, it's just, you feel like you lost a friend a little bit. So it's always 99 00:09:27,040 --> 00:09:32,400 kind of what sticks to you a little bit. And I think for me specifically, one that really, 100 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:39,360 really stands out to me is the Joshua Law story, because I have my little architect mayhem series 101 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:45,040 and that was one of the architect mayhem bonus episodes. So there was only one case in that 102 00:09:45,040 --> 00:09:51,840 episode, but it was very telling to me of how people really take on more than they can handle. 103 00:09:51,840 --> 00:09:58,080 Yeah. And bring so much stress into their lives and it just affects you. It affects everything 104 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:04,160 about your life. Oh yeah. When you allow that kind of stress to build up. And with him, he ended up 105 00:10:04,160 --> 00:10:10,320 doing a horrific thing that he never would have done otherwise if he had been in a normal life 106 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:15,440 situation. So for me, that's kind of the episode that will always be in my heart because I can 107 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:22,560 really relate to what he was going through and just, I was luckier than he was. Yeah. Well, 108 00:10:22,560 --> 00:10:30,000 where can we find you online? You can find us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at True Crime B&B. 109 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:35,120 And if you wanted to send us an email, which nobody ever does, but if you wanted to, you could email 110 00:10:35,120 --> 00:10:42,400 us at truecrimebnbpod at gmail.com. Okay. Well, thanks so much for sharing and I appreciate that. 111 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:48,240 So sometimes when we step out of our own podcast, I think it really makes us human, sort of like what 112 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:52,960 you were mentioning a little while ago, and it helps to keep things in perspective for sure. 113 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:59,040 And with that, I guess I'll ask you if you're ready for me to tell the tale. I am ready. Are 114 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:04,800 you ready, Bailey? Yep. Let's hear it. Let's go. Okay. Since we all reside in Georgia, I thought 115 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:10,960 this would be a perfect time to bring up a case coming out of Georgia today. Okay. So usually what 116 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:16,080 I do is I start by asking my sister, Beth, a question, which kind of relates to the story. 117 00:11:16,080 --> 00:11:21,600 So I'm going to ask you guys a question now. Have you ever been in a room or maybe out shopping 118 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:28,960 anywhere where just everybody's phone goes off at the same time, like an alert sort of message that 119 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:33,120 child is missing? I have not ever been out in public when that happened, but I know what you're 120 00:11:33,120 --> 00:11:39,680 talking about. Yeah. I was in a room full of phones one day that just went off all at the same time. 121 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:45,440 And everybody of course stops and looks at it. But yeah, that had to be a little bit creepy. 122 00:11:45,440 --> 00:11:49,280 It really kind of was. And I'll tell you, I was going to mention this a little bit later, but one 123 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:54,480 of the people in the room made a derogatory comment about everybody's phones going off at the same 124 00:11:54,480 --> 00:12:00,720 time. I just basically set them straight in a nice diplomatic way to say, Hey, like this is serious. 125 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:06,000 You're making a joke of it. This is somebody's child. Yeah. I'm sorry. We inconvenienced you 126 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:12,000 that somebody's child might be stolen. Excuse us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I think they 127 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:17,680 felt bad about it and hopefully they have a different mindset now. Well, I asked you that 128 00:12:17,680 --> 00:12:23,920 because we are going to talk about Levi Frady and Amber Hagerman. You may or may not recognize 129 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:29,680 their names. You certainly will in just a little bit. In the state of Georgia, we have something 130 00:12:29,680 --> 00:12:37,040 that's known as Levi's Call, which is that alert system that we all get on our phones from time to 131 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:44,160 time when a child is missing or abducted. And at the national level, we know this as the Amber Alert. 132 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:50,560 I know you guys know those. I don't think I recognize Levi's Call. Yeah, I knew Amber Alert. 133 00:12:50,560 --> 00:12:55,680 I've never heard about Levi. Okay. Well, I'm here to educate you guys today. How about that? 134 00:12:55,680 --> 00:13:01,680 Fantastic. That sounds great. All right. So I'm going to start by talking about Levi, who 135 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:08,960 unfortunately was abducted back in 1997 while riding his bike home from a friend's house. 136 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:17,360 Those are awful stories. Oh, I know. Levi was born to Marilyn and Milton Frady in 1986 and had a 137 00:13:17,360 --> 00:13:23,040 twin sister named Lacey. As life would have it though, Levi's parents divorced when the twins 138 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:29,440 were three years old and Marilyn received full custody of the children. They moved on to live in 139 00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:36,080 Forsyth County, Georgia and the twins attended North Forsyth Middle School and Cumming. They 140 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:41,680 were in grade six. So they just started middle school. Levi was a typical boy who loved the 141 00:13:41,680 --> 00:13:48,960 outdoors and music. I couldn't tell if maybe he had an ear for music. He was in the band or 142 00:13:48,960 --> 00:13:54,000 you know how that's really a coming of age. So kids that age really start defining their own 143 00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:59,360 style of music that they enjoy. I mean, I remember being that age and going into my own genres as 144 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:04,320 opposed to listening to Beth's music, my sister's music. Right. I had the same experience with Beth. 145 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:09,600 Okay. Now let's fast forward to October 22nd of 1997 where 11 year old Levi Frady arrived home 146 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:14,480 from school and called his mother to ask if he could go to a friend's house. Marilyn gave him 147 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:20,320 permission to do so, but asked him to come home for supper at 630 that evening. I know that we've 148 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:25,200 done that, you know, let the kids go out and play. My son, Corey has lived in the woods when he was 149 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:31,840 growing up at that time. He was a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, 150 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:36,080 very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, 151 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:41,520 very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very happy. Maybe he's a little too young at the 152 00:14:41,520 --> 00:14:46,400 age that he may have died at and I think he has lived in the woods when he was growing up at that 153 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:53,280 age. Just be home in time for supper. And the friend whose house Levi had gone to later told 154 00:14:53,280 --> 00:15:00,640 police that he had left around 630 to make his way home. Around 638 p.m, Levi made a pit stop 155 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:08,000 Levi would have had to call from a landline. Now according to witnesses Levi was seen taking an 156 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:14,640 alternate route on his way home somewhere around 6 45 pm. So he's already late because he was told 157 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:21,840 to be home at 6 30. By seven o'clock Marilyn began calling around to Levi's friends to see where Levi 158 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:28,160 was but didn't get an answer so she and Lacey got in the car and started going out to look for him. 159 00:15:28,160 --> 00:15:33,920 So he went a direction home that is not his normal route that he would take? Yeah I think likely 160 00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:40,240 because he made that pit stop at that second friend's house. Okay. So you know it wasn't it 161 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:45,120 wasn't the direct route that he would have taken otherwise. And he only stopped there so he could 162 00:15:45,120 --> 00:15:51,360 call his mom? Yeah. Did she not know where he was calling from? I believe that she knew which house 163 00:15:51,360 --> 00:15:57,920 he was going to to visit his friend but he was already late going home so he probably made that 164 00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:03,760 pit stop along the way at the second friend's house. Yeah I mean that's responsible of him that 165 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:10,720 he's thinking about that. Okay. About a mile from the house they reached a road called Little Mill 166 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:18,000 Road in Dawsonville Georgia where they came upon Levi's red bike lying abandoned in a ditch. 167 00:16:18,640 --> 00:16:26,320 So Levi is gone his bike is found. Oh no. As in many missing persons cases Marilyn waited until 168 00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:31,600 eight o'clock the next morning to call police to report Levi missing. I don't think I could do that 169 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:37,040 though. I think my motherly instincts would definitely kick in. I think I'd panic too much. 170 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:44,960 I know the the standard answer is you have to wait 24 hours and this was back in 1997. So you know 171 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:50,400 that they were probably going to tell her well you know maybe he just went to another friend's house. 172 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:57,120 Yeah but a kid is different than an adult and if your kid is missing and your kid's bike has been 173 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:02,640 abandoned somewhere I think it's ridiculous to say let's just wait and see what happens. Yeah. 174 00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,200 Yeah especially a kid who literally just called to say hey I'm running a little bit late but I'm on 175 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:12,880 my way like that's not a kid that's about to run off you know. Yeah so true. Well I will tell you 176 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:17,600 this too just as a side note I just got back from Washington DC I had this trip planned for a little 177 00:17:17,600 --> 00:17:24,880 while. While we were up at the Lincoln Memorial there was a woman walking around and I could hear 178 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:29,440 the panic in her voice. She had lost her children there were two of them that she was yelling out 179 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:33,760 for and it took me just a minute because I was listening to her yelling. I thought okay well 180 00:17:33,760 --> 00:17:39,120 she's just getting her kids attention but the more I listened I noticed that she was panicking and 181 00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:44,720 she couldn't find her kids. So I was just about to go help her when somebody walked up and told her 182 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:49,840 that they had found the kids. That's a terrifying feeling when you do not know where your child is. 183 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:55,280 Yes. This one would hide under things at the Galleon store. Yeah I hid under a canoe and fell 184 00:17:55,280 --> 00:18:03,920 asleep for a while once. Oh my gosh. They had to shut the Galleon store down they had the 185 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:11,200 they had the exits blocked. I was panicked. Oh my gosh how old were you Bailey? Maybe like six, 186 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:18,640 seven. I don't even know if you're that old four or five. Yeah. Oh my gosh and you fell asleep. 187 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:22,400 I didn't know. I didn't know bad things happened here. I'm still mad about it too. 188 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:31,120 As well you should be. I will tell you this once that woman in Washington discovered that her 189 00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:37,760 children were okay I mean she went from panicked to very angry in a hot second. I literally heard 190 00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,880 her saying she was going to kill her kids when she was walking towards them. Now that you're alive 191 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:48,480 I'm gonna kill you. Oh my gosh I know I couldn't imagine though. I did lose Cory once by a lake. 192 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:54,640 We were camping one time and I lost my son when he was three. Camping would be scary. All in a lake. 193 00:18:54,640 --> 00:19:00,560 By a lake yeah. He had the need for speed. He had this little tricycle he was riding and just followed 194 00:19:00,560 --> 00:19:06,320 the guy that was working at the park blowing leaves. He followed him around a corner found a 195 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:12,480 nice long hill to ride down and ended up at somebody else's camping spot. Oh my goodness. But 196 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:18,000 for 15 minutes of my life it was terrifying. That would be terrifying because at a lake you would 197 00:19:18,000 --> 00:19:26,160 be extra vigilant. Yes. All right well after Marilyn had called the police they went to patrol the 198 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:32,320 areas that Marilyn and her neighbors believed that Levi had traveled between the houses the day before. 199 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:39,680 On October 23rd of 1997 this would be the day after that he went missing. This was opening day 200 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:46,080 for hunting season in the Dawson Forest which was heavily populated with avid hunters. And for our 201 00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:53,200 listeners who don't know the Dawsonville area Dawson Forest is the same area that Gary Michael 202 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:59,920 Hilton took Meredith Emerson when he abducted her in 2008 which my sister Beth and I had talked 203 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:04,800 about in episode 23. If you have not had a chance to go listen to that I would say you'd need to go 204 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:13,840 listen to that one. All right unfortunately at around 2 p.m on October 23rd Levi Frady was 205 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:22,880 discovered deceased in the Dawson Forest about 20 miles from his house. Hunters found Levi face up 206 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:29,840 in a water-filled ditch inside the Dawson Forest Wildlife Management Area in Dawson County which 207 00:20:29,840 --> 00:20:37,600 is one county over from Forsyth where Levi lived. And according to the GBI or Georgia Bureau of 208 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:44,560 Investigations the Forsyth County Sheriff at the time Denny Hendricks stated that he believed Levi 209 00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:51,760 was killed near his home before being taken to that forest. That's horrifying. Yeah both Forsyth 210 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:58,160 and Dawson counties continue and I'm going to say present terms they continue to collaborate on this 211 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:05,920 case but to this day Levi's death still remains unsolved. Levi's mom still lives in the same 212 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:12,320 house that Levi and Lacey grew up in and now has a grandson who is the same age that Levi was when 213 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:20,080 he disappeared and Lacey Levi's sister gave her son Levi as his middle name in memory of her brother. 214 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:27,040 Oh sweet. Yeah. I'm going to talk about two suspects from eyewitness accounts. One suspect was later 215 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:32,800 identified in Levi's murder. Well it's a suspect they weren't really identified they were just from 216 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:39,600 eyewitness accounts like I said this case is still unsolved but one suspect was seen on Little Mill 217 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:45,520 Road where Levi's bike was found and this man is described as a white male who at the time was in 218 00:21:45,520 --> 00:21:53,040 his 50s so he would probably be somewhere around 75 today. The man had gray hair a scruffy beard 219 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:58,640 and was wearing a blue faded baseball cap plus walked with a stoop. Do you guys know what a stoop 220 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:04,720 is? It's kind of like walking in maybe with their head down or kind of hunchy. Yeah he was seen 221 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:11,440 somewhere around 6 30 p.m. which was around the time that Levi was making his way home for supper. 222 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:18,960 The second suspect was seen hanging around Dawson forest and was also described to be a white male. 223 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:26,640 He was somewhere between 45 and 55 years old. He also had gray hair was clean shaven stood somewhere 224 00:22:26,640 --> 00:22:32,800 around six feet tall and had a slim build. Witnesses saw the suspect driving an older 225 00:22:32,800 --> 00:22:39,920 blue Toyota pickup truck with a camper shell on the back. The pickup is believed to be a Toyota 226 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:47,200 model between the years of 1980 and 1985 which I'm mentioning in the case that any of our listeners 227 00:22:47,200 --> 00:22:53,040 have information on this case. So when they say that they found him in the area of Dawsonville 228 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:59,520 or Dawson Dawsonville forest or Dawson forest? Dawson forest. When they saw him in the area of 229 00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:06,800 Dawson forest did they mean in the area near to where he lived or in the area near to where he 230 00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:14,640 was found? Where he was found so Levi lived in Forsyth county in Cumming Georgia and Dawson 231 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:20,240 forest is in Dawsonville Georgia. Oh I thought it was a very expansive forest I thought it took up 232 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:26,960 parts of both of those counties. Oh I see I gotcha. No he was found in Dawson county about 20 miles 233 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:33,120 away from where he lived. Okay but the man with the truck cap was also seen in that same area 234 00:23:33,120 --> 00:23:40,800 where he was found. Yes now suspect number one with the stoop he was seen on the road where Levi's 235 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:46,640 bike was found and the second suspect was found over by the forest. Okay yeah. I'm going to jump 236 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:54,800 forward a little bit to July 7th of 2020 and based on a tip the GBI successfully obtained a search 237 00:23:54,800 --> 00:24:02,560 warrant on July 7th 2020 to search a man's home by the name of Marshall Talent who lived in Cumming 238 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:08,880 and according to a tipster Talent was apparently in possession of the gun used to murder Levi. 239 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:15,360 And let me just mention the person that presented this tip to police was Talent's lifelong partner 240 00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:24,240 and he reported this information guys back on August 16th of 2013. 2013. Oh wow yeah it took 241 00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:30,640 him seven years to go and follow up on this tip. It did I wonder why it would take that long. I bet 242 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:38,560 you're gonna give us a theory about that. No I'm stumped I have no idea. Oh okay I thought you were 243 00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:45,440 gonna say he worked for the Bureau of Investigation. I know I like to do thorough research but I am not 244 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:54,240 that good. All right. Okay so the very day that the search warrant was issued Talent was found 245 00:24:54,240 --> 00:25:01,520 dead on his property by a delivery driver. Apparently a man named Tommy Albert Samples 246 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:06,800 stabbed Talent to death when a drug deal went wrong. So it was just coincidental that he 247 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,800 happened to be murdered on the same day that the search warrant was supposed to be? Yes. 248 00:25:12,080 --> 00:25:20,160 That's crazy. I know and the problem with that is he really could have given some information. 249 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:27,200 Now we have nothing. Well so was there any forensic evidence that was saved from the remains of Levi 250 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:33,120 or from the crime scene? Yes actually there is which I will talk about in just a moment. 251 00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:40,880 Okay don't mean to jump ahead. Oh no you're fine. I mean in this day and age back in 1997 DNA was 252 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:48,320 not a thing. No but they a lot of times they save that stuff. Well Albert Samples was arrested for 253 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:54,560 Talent's murder pretty quickly. During his interrogation he made mention of the gun used to 254 00:25:54,560 --> 00:26:00,880 kill Levi Frady and police either overlooked his comment or disregarded this information. Would you 255 00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:06,640 like to know why? I would like to know why. They wanted to know more information on Marshall 256 00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:12,640 Talent's stabbing. That's what they were focusing on. So they prioritized the guy doing a drug deal 257 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:18,160 stuff over the child that was possibly murdered. The only thing that I can think of from this 258 00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:25,920 scenario is that because it was in 2020 even though we have this emergency alert system in place 259 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:31,920 because of the time that went by maybe the investigators weren't really familiar with the 260 00:26:31,920 --> 00:26:38,080 name Levi Frady. I don't know I mean I have no idea why they were more interested in this stabbing. 261 00:26:38,080 --> 00:26:42,400 And I don't know why they couldn't ask about both things. It's not like you only get to 262 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:47,360 allow a certain number of questions you know. Go ahead and ask about the stabbing and then 263 00:26:47,360 --> 00:26:55,360 follow up on the gun. Yeah now the reason that the gun was even brought up is because when 264 00:26:55,360 --> 00:27:02,000 Talent and samples got into an altercation at some point in time during the interrogation he had 265 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:08,080 removed his shirt to show the police that Talent had shot him in the arm so that's why he stabbed 266 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:15,840 him in self-defense. Oh okay. When they asked him what gun was used Albert replied the same one that 267 00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:21,760 they shot Levi Frady with. Oh my god and they didn't even go hey do a quick google search who's 268 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:28,480 this Levi Frady kid. I know. So was Talent of the correct age that he could have been the guy that 269 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:35,600 was seen by the bike or near on the street where the bike was found? I could not find any information 270 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:40,480 on him as much as I looked. I really couldn't that's a great question I mean I would love to 271 00:27:40,480 --> 00:27:45,280 answer that for you but I don't have an answer today. Well either of them it sounds like would 272 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:53,920 have been in their 70s in 2020 so yeah that's very true. Georgia legislation called for Levi's call 273 00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:58,800 which is the state's version of the amber alert system that I had mentioned a little while ago. 274 00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:04,880 This emergency system dispatches across everyone's cell phone and those digital signs that you guys 275 00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:11,280 see on the expressway or interstate anytime a child goes missing. Levi's call partners with 276 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:17,600 Georgia broadcasters so the news media, law enforcement officials, and the emergency management 277 00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:24,480 system to create real-time alerts on abducted children under the age of 18. So they have some 278 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:31,520 pretty specific criteria that they use it has to be somebody under the age of 18. Non-custodial 279 00:28:31,520 --> 00:28:38,800 parents are not allowed to request an emergency response activation so you have to be a custodial 280 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:44,720 parent or guardian before that can be issued. That seems like it's a little bit lopsided. Yeah. I 281 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:48,560 mean just because somebody's the custodial parent doesn't mean they're going to do anything to hurt 282 00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:54,560 a child. Yeah unfortunately when divorces happen it's not always a good parenting situation. Right 283 00:28:55,280 --> 00:29:01,120 if you as Valo like that's yeah if her older brother had been able to report his sister 284 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:05,440 missing that probably would have been solved a lot sooner but yeah that's rough. Yeah that sounds 285 00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:11,920 like a little bit wrong headed there as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely. Alerts with the Levi's call 286 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:18,240 alerts are transmitted through the Georgia Emergency Management Agency and pictures are 287 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:24,320 immediately sent out to the news media so they're broadcasted pretty quickly and really that's all 288 00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:32,080 I have on Levi. He would be 36 years old today and if any of our listeners have any information on 289 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:41,840 this case you can contact the Georgia Bureau of Investigations in Cleveland Georgia at 706-348-4866 290 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:53,840 or 1-800-597-8477 if you need to remember that one is 800-597-TIPS. So that is Levi Frady but I'm 291 00:29:53,840 --> 00:30:01,600 going to move now to talk about Amber Hagerman. She was born in Texas on November 25th 1986 292 00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:08,400 and she is the girl known from the Amber Alert Emergency System that it's named after. On January 293 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:16,080 12th 1996 Amber and her family went to Arlington Texas to visit their grandparents. The next day 294 00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:24,000 on January 13th of 1996 Amber and her six-year-old brother Ricky got permission to go out bike riding. 295 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:30,960 Their mother Donna warned them to stay within one block of the house but around 3 10 p.m. the kids 296 00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:36,560 made their way to an abandoned Winn-Dixie parking lot about two blocks from the house. People who do 297 00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:41,360 not know what a Winn-Dixie is because I sure did not know what that was before I moved to Georgia 298 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:47,280 it's a grocery store. Winn-Dixie is known to be located in rural towns in southern states I can't 299 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:53,120 really say that I've ever seen them in big towns and honestly I don't even know if it exists anymore 300 00:30:53,120 --> 00:30:58,080 because over time over the years I've seen many of them shut down. Well I've lived in Georgia coming 301 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:04,320 up on 10 years and I've never seen a Winn-Dixie. I think they're more western okay because I think 302 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,840 Kroger owns them now I only know that because I worked for Kroger but yeah I'm pretty sure Kroger 303 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,640 owns them and now they're just on the west coast probably. Okay so they probably still exist but 304 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:22,160 Kroger merged with the rest of them yeah gotcha. Well little Ricky got scared about traveling 305 00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:28,560 further than where he was told to which is cool because he's a little rural follower yeah and he 306 00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:35,120 turned back to return to his grandparents house but Amber kept going she decided she was going to 307 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:40,960 go on down the road on her bike. Once Ricky arrived back at the house his mom asked about 308 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:46,800 Amber of course and sent him back to fetch her. Ricky rode to the Winn-Dixie and found her little 309 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:53,120 pink bike but did not find Amber so of course he went back home to tell his mom. Oh no that poor 310 00:31:53,120 --> 00:32:00,640 little kid. Oh I know Amber's grandfather Jimmy Whitson immediately got in his car to go looking 311 00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:07,200 for Amber. Between the time that Ricky had doubled back to go home the first time and 312 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:14,560 Jimmy going out to look for Amber only 10 minutes had passed. Well it's only two blocks away right 313 00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:20,240 so it you know you can move fast between those places but a lot can happen in 10 minutes. 314 00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,200 And if you're on a bike too yeah that time will go quickly. After the police were called 78 year old 315 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:33,280 eyewitness Jimmy Keville stated that at approximately three o'clock pm that afternoon 316 00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:40,720 he was in his backyard when he saw a man get out of a full-sized single cab black pickup truck with 317 00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:47,120 a short wheelbase and a clear rear window. And again I'm being very specific on these descriptions 318 00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:52,000 just in case anybody knows anything. And for those of you who don't know what a short wheelbase is I 319 00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,880 actually did my research on that I went to go look up a picture. It's not an extended cab pickup 320 00:32:56,880 --> 00:33:02,560 truck like you would see today. I don't even know if they had extended cabs back in the 80s which was 321 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:09,280 the model that the truck was believed to be used in in Amber's abduction. This man was seen snatching 322 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:15,760 Amber straight off her bike. Amber at this point was kicking and screaming but he threw her into 323 00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:22,080 his vehicle and sped off. And did that man call the police? He sure did. Okay. He immediately went 324 00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,160 inside to call the police. I mean I would too if I heard if I saw a kid screaming. I don't care if 325 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,880 that's my parent mad that somebody didn't come home. If that was my parent mad at me because I 326 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:35,840 wasn't where I was not supposed to be or if I didn't come home on time I would basically call 327 00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:40,720 the police too even if that person was related to them because like I said with that woman in 328 00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:46,320 Washington DC you're scared for your child and sometimes your emotions take over. You just can't 329 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:51,520 be too careful these days. That's right. Yeah I'm sure the police would rather we said the same thing 330 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:55,280 when we did the episode with picture of the scene but the police would probably rather get a call 331 00:33:55,280 --> 00:33:59,920 that turns out to be just silly and nothing rather than nobody call and now they have no idea where 332 00:33:59,920 --> 00:34:04,960 this kid is you know. Oh yes. And even if you thought it was going to be a parent snatching the 333 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,080 kid and throwing her in the cab of the truck the parent's gonna grab the bike and throw it in the 334 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:15,040 bed. So true. I mean they're gonna be mad but they're not gonna leave a bike behind. Yeah you're 335 00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:21,600 absolutely right. Well Jimmy did the right thing as far as the 1990s era this story absolutely went 336 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:28,400 viral. Police immediately began searching for Amber over the next four days without any breaks or 337 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:36,320 very little sleep. Everybody was on watch for her. Well four days later on January 17th 1996 338 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:43,440 a man was walking his dog and discovered Amber lying naked and deceased in a creek approximately 339 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:49,600 four miles away from that Windexie. Her autopsy showed that Amber had multiple cuts and bruises 340 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:56,160 all over her body and died from a slash to her throat that was either caused by a knife or a 341 00:34:56,160 --> 00:35:04,000 screwdriver. My god that's so brutal that poor thing. Yes. What an awful thing to go through. Yes. 342 00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:11,200 Police believe that Amber's abduction occurred by a local man who was presented with an opportunity 343 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,880 so it was not planned out in advance he just saw her and decided in that very moment that he was 344 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:24,000 going to snatch her off the streets. Yeah. Oh what's your cat's name again? Puss. Oh yeah. 345 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:30,000 Puss agrees with us. Puss does. She says I am against violence in all its forms. She can sense 346 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:36,560 the emotions and she likes to cheer us back up. Yes I know this one's getting a little rough here. 347 00:35:36,560 --> 00:35:42,560 I mean I guess I have a question here. If police believe that this was a local person that had 348 00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:49,600 snatched Amber how many full-sized single cab black pickup trucks with a short wheelbase are 349 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:56,240 registered in the area? But it's Texas. I was gonna say yeah maybe but it is a small town Texas. I feel 350 00:35:56,240 --> 00:36:01,760 like specifically that car you could probably name every person that has that car. Oh yeah. 351 00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:08,320 Maybe so did the guy have a description of the man who? Why yes. I mean a good description not 352 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:14,240 like just a middle-aged guy. Middle-aged white guy? No he had a he had a pretty good description. Let 353 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,560 me see if I can find this in my notes because I actually wrote that down. I wasn't sure if you had 354 00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:24,000 fully described the guy or just the truck. Nope I haven't described him yet. He was in his 20s or 355 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:31,600 30s at the time so he'd be about between 46 and 56 today and he is believed to be white or Hispanic. 356 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:38,480 The perpetrator who took Amber stood under six foot tall had a medium build and had dark brown 357 00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:43,600 or black hair. So there you go. I think that's a pretty decent description though and I just I mean 358 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:50,560 I'm going back to why yes we're in Texas but in this instance I think police need to follow up 359 00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:57,280 on every single pickup truck. I know it would be exhausting but I don't know. Yeah well I wonder how 360 00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,160 large the police force is and if they didn't have enough manpower I'm sure they could have called in 361 00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:07,280 the state police. Oh yeah. Or the what is it the Texas Marshals is that what they call them there 362 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:12,960 or the Rangers Texas Rangers? Yeah and they also didn't have like the databases where you could 363 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:18,480 easily search okay every Toyota every like registered in this county or whatever. But how 364 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:26,080 times have changed with technology for sure. Police believe that something likely triggered this 365 00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:33,200 abductor like maybe a recent argument or maybe losing a job something like that that may have 366 00:37:33,200 --> 00:37:38,880 gotten him to act impulsively when he saw Amber. Right just taking out his rage on the first person 367 00:37:38,880 --> 00:37:43,440 he found or the first person he thought would be vulnerable to him. Yeah wouldn't fight back as 368 00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:51,680 hard. Yeah. Okay so he's 20s to 30s dark brown black hair Hispanic or white and under six feet 369 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:56,560 tall. That's a fair description when you also know what his truck looked like. Yeah. So how did they 370 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:03,520 never really even come up with any suspect for that guy? No idea that is what's baffling to me. 371 00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:12,000 Yeah I don't get it. That's frustrating. Yes well 14 days after Amber's abduction a regular citizen 372 00:38:12,000 --> 00:38:19,040 like you and me named Diane Simone wrote a local radio station in Dallas Texas asking if local 373 00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:25,760 broadcasters could partner with law enforcement to get the word out quickly when children are 374 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:32,720 abducted. Diane did not have any ties to the Hagerman family. She was just a woman following 375 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:39,360 up on this story very carefully on the news. She felt compelled from these events to send that 376 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:44,960 letter to the media. I know when I see this on the news it really hurts my heart so she actually did 377 00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:50,640 something about it. That's awesome good for her. Yeah she wrote a letter to the local news station 378 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:57,040 proposing an emergency response system called Amber's Plan which prompted Dallas Fort Worth 379 00:38:57,040 --> 00:39:02,400 broadcasting officials to come up with what is known today as the broadcast emergency response 380 00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:09,600 system. This of course is where all our phones go off at one time and I say good for you Diane 381 00:39:09,600 --> 00:39:15,280 for taking action on this because more of us need to do that. Absolutely to not just say oh I wish 382 00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:20,480 someone would do something but to actually stand up and do something yourself that's awesome. Yes. 383 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,320 Let me ask you a question though Deb Amber's remains were found four days after she was snatched. 384 00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:32,320 Yes. How long had they thought she had been deceased? Would it have helped if they had had, 385 00:39:32,320 --> 00:39:37,040 did they have four days that they could have found her or or had he killed her the first time? I did 386 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:43,440 not find any information on that. That's what's so odd about these two stories even with Levi and 387 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:50,240 Amber so little information is to be found out there about the circumstances of their death how 388 00:39:50,240 --> 00:39:56,160 long they were there. I don't even know how long Levi was left in the forest. I think a lot of that 389 00:39:56,160 --> 00:40:02,240 time now information that we get about those kinds of details I think a lot of that's included in the 390 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:08,640 autopsy findings and I don't know that those were always available in the 90s. Yeah I agree with you. 391 00:40:08,640 --> 00:40:13,120 Well what I was thinking is because they're both unsolved cases I wonder if they're almost doing 392 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:17,200 that on purpose that they have a little bit of leverage if somebody were to confess or turn 393 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:22,960 somebody in. That's a good point too. Yeah maybe. Good thought. So true I always say you know police 394 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:28,960 do hold certain information at the chest so yes so they can hold somebody accountable if they ever 395 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:36,720 find them. Authorities used the letters in Amber's name to call this alert system America's Missing 396 00:40:36,720 --> 00:40:42,160 Broadcast Emergency Response which is known as the Amber Alert. I thought that was pretty cool. 397 00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:48,080 It's not just named after her it is definitely given that long name and it's an official name 398 00:40:48,080 --> 00:40:53,120 but I did not know there was meaning behind that which is really cool. I also didn't know that but 399 00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:58,240 it is great because it was a gesture to include her in it because it was her case that sort of 400 00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:06,160 prompted the whole thing. Well like Levi's call certain criteria must be met before it's activated 401 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:12,800 and law enforcement has to determine if cases meet specifications which I had mentioned non-custodial 402 00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:17,600 adults cannot request the Amber Alert they have to be under the age of 18 and so on. 403 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:25,040 Once a missing child is established police agencies notify broadcast media and an Amber Alert 404 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:30,560 is distributed over your phone and on those interstate digital signs that you see. Believe 405 00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:35,600 it or not you guys I did not know this Amber Alerts are now on Facebook. Have you guys seen that? 406 00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:40,800 Oh Beth have you seen that? No offense. Bailey I don't know how much you are into Facebook because 407 00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:48,960 of your age. No you are correct she is not really into Facebook. Well I was in high school not 408 00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:55,920 anymore. Okay that was a while ago. Yeah. I think I have seen an Amber Alert on Facebook but I don't 409 00:41:55,920 --> 00:42:01,840 see them very often so I guess they must still be locally targeted not just across all of Facebook. 410 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,160 I think that they are targeted based on where you're located. Yeah that's true. I do know that if 411 00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:10,560 I'm driving down the interstate and I see the sign now I'm looking around for the silver Nissan 412 00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:19,040 with ZXQYYJR you know. Yes. Whenever I see those it's usually like at the tail end of a long road 413 00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:24,400 trip so it's always like well this is like a game I can play now and it's horrible to say that but 414 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:29,280 it's like okay now I can focus on something and that's why I recognize them so often. This will 415 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:33,840 keep me alert long enough to get the rest of the way home. Yeah exactly. Yeah. It does wake you up 416 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:39,280 for a second like whew somebody else is having a bad day because that sucks. It does. During an 417 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:48,880 interview in 2016 Amber's mother Donna is quoted as saying that this emergency system is bittersweet 418 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:56,000 obviously because she wonders if Amber would have been returned safely had the system already been 419 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,400 in place. Totally agree there. Totally agree. Right. I mean that's the same thought I had a 420 00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:05,200 minute ago is that I wonder if it would have been the difference in finding her before it was too 421 00:43:05,200 --> 00:43:11,760 late. Yes now interesting enough in my research what I discovered is believe it or not once those 422 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:19,760 Amber alert systems are sent out kids are discovered or found or rescued rather quickly 423 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:25,120 because whoever took them in the first place usually give themselves up really quickly because 424 00:43:25,120 --> 00:43:29,600 they see it out there they know everybody's looking for them so they'd rather just give it up. So I 425 00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:33,840 thought that was pretty interesting that they turn themselves in really really quickly after they see 426 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:39,360 those Amber alerts not everybody but a lot of them do which is really cool. Well they're thinking I 427 00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:44,400 can either walk in there and turn myself in or I can be the guy on the 11 o'clock news with my face 428 00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:52,400 on the concrete and my hands cuffed behind my back. Yes. All right as of May of 2022 the Amber 429 00:43:52,400 --> 00:44:01,600 alert system has recovered 1,114 kidnapped or abducted children so that's awesome. That is. 430 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:08,560 There are currently 82 Amber alert systems in place throughout the United States including Levi's 431 00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:13,680 call that we discussed here in the state of Georgia. The Amber alert system is not just in 432 00:44:13,680 --> 00:44:21,200 the United States it's also internationally used now in 33 countries and counting. So what a great 433 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:26,400 thing that Diane. That yeah I mean good for her that was a great idea she was really thinking 434 00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:34,240 outside the box you know. Yes okay so you had mentioned earlier was there any DNA available 435 00:44:34,240 --> 00:44:41,680 and police did collect DNA for this case and they do hope that this will help close the case one day 436 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:47,760 there is nothing in concrete but they do have DNA available for testing. Have they run testing 437 00:44:47,760 --> 00:44:54,160 against the database events against CODIS? That is not clear nothing's confirmed and I did read 438 00:44:54,160 --> 00:45:00,000 that in some notes that I found that they have the DNA but they don't have anything that can confirm 439 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,040 anything just yet. Okay well if they aren't in the system then that won't that won't hit. No and then 440 00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:10,080 too if they don't have much of DNA maybe they're saving it. I wanted to point something out which 441 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:15,920 was also pretty interesting in Amber's case you would think after 26 years that this would be a 442 00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:23,440 cold case but it's not. That's good it's not I'm glad it's not. Yeah I had no idea that cold cases 443 00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:30,960 reached this kind of criteria but apparently a case is not classified as a cold case unless there 444 00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:41,440 are no leads for 180 days and police have never gone without a lead for 180 days in these 26 years 445 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:47,040 that have passed. That's amazing isn't it? But they've had all those leads and they still don't have 446 00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:52,720 any suspects. I mean that's what gets me I guess is about the fact that somebody was very distinct 447 00:45:52,720 --> 00:45:58,160 on the description of the person that took her, the vehicle that was taken, and if they do have a 448 00:45:58,160 --> 00:46:03,600 little bit of DNA I just don't understand why there's no closure just yet. That's my two cents. 449 00:46:03,600 --> 00:46:08,320 Yeah I agree with you it seems like they had enough that they should have at least been able 450 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:13,840 to canvas and find somebody to talk to about it. I wonder if it's one of those things where after 451 00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:18,960 so much time that they maybe know who for the most part did this where they just don't have enough 452 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,320 for a warrant arrest you just don't know. Yeah just like I said before we don't know what they 453 00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:29,120 know and what they don't know half the time. It's like that search warrant it took them seven years 454 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:35,200 to go search Talents House in Levi's case. I don't know how you can make any excuse for that though. 455 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,920 They knew that information for seven years. I don't know I guess they just really have to make 456 00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:44,080 sure that they're following laws and have their ducks in a row before they can accuse because 457 00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:51,760 imagine the lawsuits right? Well it came from his partner. If your partner says my partner is the 458 00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:57,920 one who has the gun who killed this child I think you have to investigate that or at least go and 459 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:03,840 ask the guy do you have this gun? Yeah not even arrest them you don't necessarily need to go and 460 00:47:03,840 --> 00:47:08,960 gun blaze it and say you're under arrest but like at least have a conversation. At least question 461 00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:14,960 yeah yes well they couldn't have that conversation because the delivery man found him deceased. Well 462 00:47:14,960 --> 00:47:19,360 I know but they he wasn't deceased seven years earlier when they first found out. Yeah that's so 463 00:47:19,360 --> 00:47:25,840 true you are right. So that the whole case both of these cases are just frustrating. They are and 464 00:47:25,840 --> 00:47:32,560 they're so similar too. Very much. Well if you have any information on Amber's case you can call the 465 00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:47,120 Arlington police at 817-575-8823 or Crime Stoppers of Toront County 817-469-8477 which is also 817-469 466 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:55,840 TIPS. Those are the cases of Levi, Frady, and Amber Hagerman and since my sister Beth is not here to 467 00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:00,880 ask I usually note that we have a teachable moment and I have one today if you guys are willing to 468 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:08,640 listen to this. Oh no we refuse to learn anything. Of course what's the teachable moment? Okay I know 469 00:48:08,640 --> 00:48:13,520 from what I do for a living that when you see something for a really long time you know it's 470 00:48:13,520 --> 00:48:19,920 there you just don't pay attention to it anymore. On that note me personally I am guilty of seeing 471 00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:27,120 those digital road signs showing an amber alert and really not thinking much of it past maybe one 472 00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:33,040 or two minutes which is horrible to admit because Bailey I liked your idea how you consciously make 473 00:48:33,040 --> 00:48:38,720 a game of it especially if you're on a long road trip but here's the deal when those alerts go off 474 00:48:38,720 --> 00:48:47,120 it really is a serious situation. A child has been taken so time is of the essence and that's when 475 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:52,560 you really need to pay attention to your surroundings not just for that minute or two but until that 476 00:48:52,560 --> 00:48:58,240 child is found you need to watch the news you need to just look at those cars on the road just because 477 00:48:58,240 --> 00:49:03,200 I might see a vehicle with Florida license plates I don't know maybe that's the getaway car it 478 00:49:03,200 --> 00:49:07,840 doesn't mean that they're not going to drive through Georgia to get to another state so don't 479 00:49:07,840 --> 00:49:13,360 think just because it's got out of state license plates that they're not driving through your state. 480 00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:20,240 So my teachable moment here is to put your instincts on high alert and take an active role 481 00:49:20,240 --> 00:49:26,960 in saving a child from the same fate that Levi and Amber succumbed to Diane Simone did and she 482 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:33,600 changed history so you go girl yeah she did yeah that is amazing that's my teachable moment. I think 483 00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:39,040 people just need to put themselves in the shoes of the people who love that child that are missing 484 00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:43,840 just think for one second what we talked about earlier when your child has disappeared at the 485 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:50,880 fair or the mall or at galleons under a canoe yes you're in a total panic mode just imagine if that 486 00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:56,080 was your child that that amber alert was issued for you would want people to pay attention and 487 00:49:56,080 --> 00:50:02,560 help you find your kid absolutely and it takes a village when I was in Washington DC I was literally 488 00:50:02,560 --> 00:50:07,200 walking towards that woman who had lost her kids to see if I could help when she found them but it 489 00:50:07,200 --> 00:50:13,280 takes a village quit being a bystander and watching do something yeah don't assume somebody else is 490 00:50:13,280 --> 00:50:17,920 going to handle it well yeah if you're like the bystander you're probably going to be a lot calmer 491 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:22,400 and thinking more rationing about where would a child hide right here rather than the mom who's 492 00:50:22,400 --> 00:50:27,360 like where where where like yeah going back and forth you know right because her mind's in a flurry 493 00:50:27,360 --> 00:50:34,720 yeah well you did a great job covering those steps and I I didn't know the Levi story but I'm happy 494 00:50:34,720 --> 00:50:40,080 that you shared it with us you know and I I did know that Amber I had heard her story but I didn't 495 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:45,760 know almost any of the details that you gave so thank you for for informing us about absolutely 496 00:50:46,320 --> 00:50:51,360 well I want to thank you guys for being good sports and playing today it was a really really 497 00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:56,080 good time having you guys today it was very enjoyable for me well me too why'd you say it 498 00:50:56,080 --> 00:51:01,760 like that because I didn't want to speak for you she's an adult she gets to say her own things 499 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:10,960 that's true well to our listeners be sure to check out true crime bnb wherever you get your podcast 500 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:16,800 and follow them on social media and since my sister Beth is not here today I know you're 501 00:51:16,800 --> 00:51:24,640 listening to this though guess what I get to say that's a wrap thank you though hold on Dennis is 502 00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:32,000 barking can you hold up one second so sorry be right back where's plus get her meows out of the way 503 00:51:32,000 --> 00:51:36,160 squish her a couple times she said if she meowed she would just leave him in anyway 504 00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:51,520 okay we left you a surprise goody I love that I love surprises 505 00:51:56,640 --> 00:52:02,240 thanks for listening to dying to be found before we go we would love for you to leave a review on 506 00:52:02,240 --> 00:52:08,800 your favorite podcast platform be sure to follow us on instagram twitter facebook and pinterest at 507 00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:15,440 dying to be found you can access our website email social media and storyline request form by 508 00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:20,720 clicking on our link tree account found in our show notes if you like our episodes consider buying 509 00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:27,280 us a coffee at buy me a coffee.com slash dying to be found spelled just like you see it on our logo 510 00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:31,840 feel free to message us on instagram and let us know how we're doing or if you'd like a 511 00:52:31,840 --> 00:52:37,760 sticker with that be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts we will 512 00:52:37,760 --> 00:53:02,720 talk to you all next week.