Hi listeners of Dying to be Found. If you're fans of Deb and Beth like we are, we hope that
you'll give us a try. We like them a lot and we hope that you'll like us too. I'm Beth and I'm
Bailey and we are True Crime B&B. We do a podcast every week. We release on Fridays and every week
we'll bring to you two different true crime stories. First we'll bring you a disturbing story
and then one that will hopefully uplift your spirits a little bit. We'd love to have you
listen to our podcast. Yeah so join us every week on Friday. Find us anywhere you find your
podcasts on Spotify, Apple, Google Podcasts. I don't know anywhere else. And also you can find
us on Instagram, Twitter, or Facebook at True Crime B&B. Did we even mention that we're mom and daughter?
No. I hope you join our crime family. Bye. Bye.
Hi everyone. This is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that
episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this
podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised. Hi everyone. This is Deb from Dying to be Found.
If this is your first time listening, I want to thank you for being here today. We drop new episodes
every Thursday and if you have a storyline request, please shoot us an email, message us on Instagram,
or go to our show notes to find our storyline request under our Linktree account. And besides
that, we love what we do. We're a little bit of a pain in the ass. But we're going to do our best.
We're going to do our best to make sure that we're able to get the best out of our lives.
We love what we do, but would love it even more if you can give us a five star rating.
Now, if you are a regular listener, you may have already caught on that my sister and co-host
Beth isn't in the studio today and I'm pretty sure she's out Christmas shopping. So I've invited two
special guests to join me today. I've been following these ladies for a little while now
and absolutely love how one plays the good guy and one plays the bad guy on their podcast.
They're a mother daughter duo from the True Crime podcast, True Crime B&B. If you've not had a
chance to check them out, you really need to do that. So without further ado, please let me
introduce Beth and Bailey from True Crime B&B. Hi guys. Hi, I'm Beth and I'm Bailey. So you can
get the voices down. Before we get started, first of all, I find it very ironic that I'm talking
with another Beth right now. If you're regular followers, you know that my sister Beth is a
co-host on my own podcast here, but Beth, today you are not taking my sister's place and I'm going to
try not to mix the two of you guys up, but it really is nice to talk with you guys in person.
It's very nice to talk to you too and thank you for inviting us. Yeah, absolutely. I know that
we talked a few months ago about doing a collab, so I'm really excited about this happening today.
Awesome. Well, this is going to be fun. Yeah, and Bailey, I'm so excited to meet you as well.
Yeah, I don't think we've talked. No, we haven't talked. Who was I talking to yesterday? Was that
you? Beth. Got you. Yeah, yeah, she's the millennial, but she's also, what is it I call you? The
anti-technology. Conscientious objector to technology is my millennial. Yes, yes, I got you.
But in the meantime, I get it. Beth is the same way. I'm the technology guru at our end,
so we get it done. That's really what matters, right? It is. Yeah. And Bailey, I don't know if
you've heard any of my episodes with my daughter Shelby. She fills in from time to time, but she's
around your age. Really? Yeah, she's on a couple of them. I like to do episodes where it kind of
hits home with her and gets her aware of things. I like to do that little motherly thing from time
to time and do an episode that's going to make her pay attention. That's right, to help her stay safe,
because there's so much out there that she may not be cognizant of. Yeah, absolutely. Okay,
I just wanted to mention that Bailey and Beth live in Georgia, just like I do, which is kind of cool.
So in just a couple of minutes, we're actually going to talk about a case from Georgia. But
before we do that, I thought I might ask you guys a couple questions about your own podcast. Okay,
cool. First question, I was wondering what made you guys decide to even do a podcast together?
Well, I think it kind of goes into another question that we're often asked. People ask
about the format. And the whole reason for us doing the podcast was because we found from our
podcast listening, that there was a niche that seemed to be not being filled. Whereas you've
listened to a lot of true crime podcasts, and they're all going to leave you down at the end,
because they're really heavy subject matter. And so we thought, what if we were to do a podcast,
and we left you with an upper story at the end on every episode. And that's kind of where we
came from. Yeah, a lot of the main ones, they'll have a survivor story every like 10 episodes.
And we were like, well, what if we just ended on one every episode, so you don't just walk away
feeling depressed after that day. So that's what I really like about that is you're right. I mean,
a lot of what my sister Beth and I talk about is heavy subjects. I think a lot of the time we use
humor to kind of get us out of that rut, because some of the stories that we tell are just rough,
and we need palate cleansers. So I love the idea that you guys do that with your storylines.
Yeah. How did you decide who's going to be the bad guy, good guy? Well, it started that I was
going to be the good guy every week. But sometimes Bailey comes with a story that she really wants to
cover. Yeah, I think I'm just better at being the bad guy. I cry too much when it's a happy ending,
and she's way better. No, I cried too. We just edit all that out. That's where half our bloopers
come from is us trying to say the same sentence five times and crying every single time.
Right now I'm doing a running episode on it's not out yet. It'll be a probably a bonus episode at
our year anniversary. You listeners, you're going to be able to listen to a whole episode of nothing
but bloopers. And oh my gosh, we did one on the bog bodies. Holy cow, I could not get through. It
took me more than five minutes to stop laughing crying. That sounds awesome, though. I can't wait
for that one to come out. So when is your one year gonna be? In February, we started a little late.
Oh, us too. Yeah, we're only just a couple episodes behind each. I think I'm just three
episodes behind you. Yeah, so you started about the same time. And it's probably because we
released four in the first week. And that's probably the only reason that we're even ahead of you.
Oh, wow. So how do you guys decide on the stories that you report? A tactic I've done recently is
because we always say we try to cover the smaller town cases and stuff that aren't in the mainstream
more often than not. But what I've been doing is just kind of Google mapping, just dropping my
spot like anywhere in America or in the world and then just zooming in on a tiny little town
and searching homicide and see if something comes up. And I don't know, it's worked out so what so far.
I don't know. Yeah. And for me, it's a little bit harder sometimes to find uplifting survivor stories,
because as you know, from listening to Bailey's survivor stories, they're still pretty brutal to
get through a lot of the time. Yeah. And it's hard to find them that actually have something positive
at the end that's, you know, this survivor went out and started this foundation or this survivor has
been helping domestic abuse victims and things like that. So for me, it's I start with randomly
picking a crime like brutal knife attack survivor or something like that. And also we try to not do
every single episode in the United States because there are so many crimes that people in the United
States will never have heard of. Because we don't hear about those crimes unless they're really big
ones. And there are people just like us everywhere in the world that have the exact same things
happening to them. So it's kind of a crapshoot every week, as far as which one of us is going
to come up with what and it's kind of fun finding the right one though, because then you get excited
and then you get to researching, you know. Yeah. And then you can go down those rabbit holes and
turn it into something completely different. Exactly. Yes. Yeah. Well, with today's story,
I couldn't really find a ton on one of the topics that I'm going to be talking about, which is why
I'm going to end up blending it, which you know, we'll get to in a minute. But before we do,
I wanted to ask you, what is one of your favorite episodes that you would recommend to our listeners?
Bailey said that for her, her favorite episode is always the most recent one.
Just because it kind of is the one that's still in our hearts the most. We get very, very involved
in these stories and you know, we sit here talking about these victims as if we knew them. Yeah. I
mean, after researching them for hours and hours and hours and watching videos of them and their
family mourning them, it's just, you feel like you lost a friend a little bit. So it's always
kind of what sticks to you a little bit. And I think for me specifically, one that really,
really stands out to me is the Joshua Law story, because I have my little architect mayhem series
and that was one of the architect mayhem bonus episodes. So there was only one case in that
episode, but it was very telling to me of how people really take on more than they can handle.
Yeah. And bring so much stress into their lives and it just affects you. It affects everything
about your life. Oh yeah. When you allow that kind of stress to build up. And with him, he ended up
doing a horrific thing that he never would have done otherwise if he had been in a normal life
situation. So for me, that's kind of the episode that will always be in my heart because I can
really relate to what he was going through and just, I was luckier than he was. Yeah. Well,
where can we find you online? You can find us on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook at True Crime B&B.
And if you wanted to send us an email, which nobody ever does, but if you wanted to, you could email
us at truecrimebnbpod at gmail.com. Okay. Well, thanks so much for sharing and I appreciate that.
So sometimes when we step out of our own podcast, I think it really makes us human, sort of like what
you were mentioning a little while ago, and it helps to keep things in perspective for sure.
And with that, I guess I'll ask you if you're ready for me to tell the tale. I am ready. Are
you ready, Bailey? Yep. Let's hear it. Let's go. Okay. Since we all reside in Georgia, I thought
this would be a perfect time to bring up a case coming out of Georgia today. Okay. So usually what
I do is I start by asking my sister, Beth, a question, which kind of relates to the story.
So I'm going to ask you guys a question now. Have you ever been in a room or maybe out shopping
anywhere where just everybody's phone goes off at the same time, like an alert sort of message that
child is missing? I have not ever been out in public when that happened, but I know what you're
talking about. Yeah. I was in a room full of phones one day that just went off all at the same time.
And everybody of course stops and looks at it. But yeah, that had to be a little bit creepy.
It really kind of was. And I'll tell you, I was going to mention this a little bit later, but one
of the people in the room made a derogatory comment about everybody's phones going off at the same
time. I just basically set them straight in a nice diplomatic way to say, Hey, like this is serious.
You're making a joke of it. This is somebody's child. Yeah. I'm sorry. We inconvenienced you
that somebody's child might be stolen. Excuse us. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I mean, I think they
felt bad about it and hopefully they have a different mindset now. Well, I asked you that
because we are going to talk about Levi Frady and Amber Hagerman. You may or may not recognize
their names. You certainly will in just a little bit. In the state of Georgia, we have something
that's known as Levi's Call, which is that alert system that we all get on our phones from time to
time when a child is missing or abducted. And at the national level, we know this as the Amber Alert.
I know you guys know those. I don't think I recognize Levi's Call. Yeah, I knew Amber Alert.
I've never heard about Levi. Okay. Well, I'm here to educate you guys today. How about that?
Fantastic. That sounds great. All right. So I'm going to start by talking about Levi, who
unfortunately was abducted back in 1997 while riding his bike home from a friend's house.
Those are awful stories. Oh, I know. Levi was born to Marilyn and Milton Frady in 1986 and had a
twin sister named Lacey. As life would have it though, Levi's parents divorced when the twins
were three years old and Marilyn received full custody of the children. They moved on to live in
Forsyth County, Georgia and the twins attended North Forsyth Middle School and Cumming. They
were in grade six. So they just started middle school. Levi was a typical boy who loved the
outdoors and music. I couldn't tell if maybe he had an ear for music. He was in the band or
you know how that's really a coming of age. So kids that age really start defining their own
style of music that they enjoy. I mean, I remember being that age and going into my own genres as
opposed to listening to Beth's music, my sister's music. Right. I had the same experience with Beth.
Okay. Now let's fast forward to October 22nd of 1997 where 11 year old Levi Frady arrived home
from school and called his mother to ask if he could go to a friend's house. Marilyn gave him
permission to do so, but asked him to come home for supper at 630 that evening. I know that we've
done that, you know, let the kids go out and play. My son, Corey has lived in the woods when he was
growing up at that time. He was a very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very,
very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very, very happy. Maybe he's a little too young at the
age that he may have died at and I think he has lived in the woods when he was growing up at that
age. Just be home in time for supper. And the friend whose house Levi had gone to later told
police that he had left around 630 to make his way home. Around 638 p.m, Levi made a pit stop
Levi would have had to call from a landline. Now according to witnesses Levi was seen taking an
alternate route on his way home somewhere around 6 45 pm. So he's already late because he was told
to be home at 6 30. By seven o'clock Marilyn began calling around to Levi's friends to see where Levi
was but didn't get an answer so she and Lacey got in the car and started going out to look for him.
So he went a direction home that is not his normal route that he would take? Yeah I think likely
because he made that pit stop at that second friend's house. Okay. So you know it wasn't it
wasn't the direct route that he would have taken otherwise. And he only stopped there so he could
call his mom? Yeah. Did she not know where he was calling from? I believe that she knew which house
he was going to to visit his friend but he was already late going home so he probably made that
pit stop along the way at the second friend's house. Yeah I mean that's responsible of him that
he's thinking about that. Okay. About a mile from the house they reached a road called Little Mill
Road in Dawsonville Georgia where they came upon Levi's red bike lying abandoned in a ditch.
So Levi is gone his bike is found. Oh no. As in many missing persons cases Marilyn waited until
eight o'clock the next morning to call police to report Levi missing. I don't think I could do that
though. I think my motherly instincts would definitely kick in. I think I'd panic too much.
I know the the standard answer is you have to wait 24 hours and this was back in 1997. So you know
that they were probably going to tell her well you know maybe he just went to another friend's house.
Yeah but a kid is different than an adult and if your kid is missing and your kid's bike has been
abandoned somewhere I think it's ridiculous to say let's just wait and see what happens. Yeah.
Yeah especially a kid who literally just called to say hey I'm running a little bit late but I'm on
my way like that's not a kid that's about to run off you know. Yeah so true. Well I will tell you
this too just as a side note I just got back from Washington DC I had this trip planned for a little
while. While we were up at the Lincoln Memorial there was a woman walking around and I could hear
the panic in her voice. She had lost her children there were two of them that she was yelling out
for and it took me just a minute because I was listening to her yelling. I thought okay well
she's just getting her kids attention but the more I listened I noticed that she was panicking and
she couldn't find her kids. So I was just about to go help her when somebody walked up and told her
that they had found the kids. That's a terrifying feeling when you do not know where your child is.
Yes. This one would hide under things at the Galleon store. Yeah I hid under a canoe and fell
asleep for a while once. Oh my gosh. They had to shut the Galleon store down they had the
they had the exits blocked. I was panicked. Oh my gosh how old were you Bailey? Maybe like six,
seven. I don't even know if you're that old four or five. Yeah. Oh my gosh and you fell asleep.
I didn't know. I didn't know bad things happened here. I'm still mad about it too.
As well you should be. I will tell you this once that woman in Washington discovered that her
children were okay I mean she went from panicked to very angry in a hot second. I literally heard
her saying she was going to kill her kids when she was walking towards them. Now that you're alive
I'm gonna kill you. Oh my gosh I know I couldn't imagine though. I did lose Cory once by a lake.
We were camping one time and I lost my son when he was three. Camping would be scary. All in a lake.
By a lake yeah. He had the need for speed. He had this little tricycle he was riding and just followed
the guy that was working at the park blowing leaves. He followed him around a corner found a
nice long hill to ride down and ended up at somebody else's camping spot. Oh my goodness. But
for 15 minutes of my life it was terrifying. That would be terrifying because at a lake you would
be extra vigilant. Yes. All right well after Marilyn had called the police they went to patrol the
areas that Marilyn and her neighbors believed that Levi had traveled between the houses the day before.
On October 23rd of 1997 this would be the day after that he went missing. This was opening day
for hunting season in the Dawson Forest which was heavily populated with avid hunters. And for our
listeners who don't know the Dawsonville area Dawson Forest is the same area that Gary Michael
Hilton took Meredith Emerson when he abducted her in 2008 which my sister Beth and I had talked
about in episode 23. If you have not had a chance to go listen to that I would say you'd need to go
listen to that one. All right unfortunately at around 2 p.m on October 23rd Levi Frady was
discovered deceased in the Dawson Forest about 20 miles from his house. Hunters found Levi face up
in a water-filled ditch inside the Dawson Forest Wildlife Management Area in Dawson County which
is one county over from Forsyth where Levi lived. And according to the GBI or Georgia Bureau of
Investigations the Forsyth County Sheriff at the time Denny Hendricks stated that he believed Levi
was killed near his home before being taken to that forest. That's horrifying. Yeah both Forsyth
and Dawson counties continue and I'm going to say present terms they continue to collaborate on this
case but to this day Levi's death still remains unsolved. Levi's mom still lives in the same
house that Levi and Lacey grew up in and now has a grandson who is the same age that Levi was when
he disappeared and Lacey Levi's sister gave her son Levi as his middle name in memory of her brother.
Oh sweet. Yeah. I'm going to talk about two suspects from eyewitness accounts. One suspect was later
identified in Levi's murder. Well it's a suspect they weren't really identified they were just from
eyewitness accounts like I said this case is still unsolved but one suspect was seen on Little Mill
Road where Levi's bike was found and this man is described as a white male who at the time was in
his 50s so he would probably be somewhere around 75 today. The man had gray hair a scruffy beard
and was wearing a blue faded baseball cap plus walked with a stoop. Do you guys know what a stoop
is? It's kind of like walking in maybe with their head down or kind of hunchy. Yeah he was seen
somewhere around 6 30 p.m. which was around the time that Levi was making his way home for supper.
The second suspect was seen hanging around Dawson forest and was also described to be a white male.
He was somewhere between 45 and 55 years old. He also had gray hair was clean shaven stood somewhere
around six feet tall and had a slim build. Witnesses saw the suspect driving an older
blue Toyota pickup truck with a camper shell on the back. The pickup is believed to be a Toyota
model between the years of 1980 and 1985 which I'm mentioning in the case that any of our listeners
have information on this case. So when they say that they found him in the area of Dawsonville
or Dawson Dawsonville forest or Dawson forest? Dawson forest. When they saw him in the area of
Dawson forest did they mean in the area near to where he lived or in the area near to where he
was found? Where he was found so Levi lived in Forsyth county in Cumming Georgia and Dawson
forest is in Dawsonville Georgia. Oh I thought it was a very expansive forest I thought it took up
parts of both of those counties. Oh I see I gotcha. No he was found in Dawson county about 20 miles
away from where he lived. Okay but the man with the truck cap was also seen in that same area
where he was found. Yes now suspect number one with the stoop he was seen on the road where Levi's
bike was found and the second suspect was found over by the forest. Okay yeah. I'm going to jump
forward a little bit to July 7th of 2020 and based on a tip the GBI successfully obtained a search
warrant on July 7th 2020 to search a man's home by the name of Marshall Talent who lived in Cumming
and according to a tipster Talent was apparently in possession of the gun used to murder Levi.
And let me just mention the person that presented this tip to police was Talent's lifelong partner
and he reported this information guys back on August 16th of 2013. 2013. Oh wow yeah it took
him seven years to go and follow up on this tip. It did I wonder why it would take that long. I bet
you're gonna give us a theory about that. No I'm stumped I have no idea. Oh okay I thought you were
gonna say he worked for the Bureau of Investigation. I know I like to do thorough research but I am not
that good. All right. Okay so the very day that the search warrant was issued Talent was found
dead on his property by a delivery driver. Apparently a man named Tommy Albert Samples
stabbed Talent to death when a drug deal went wrong. So it was just coincidental that he
happened to be murdered on the same day that the search warrant was supposed to be? Yes.
That's crazy. I know and the problem with that is he really could have given some information.
Now we have nothing. Well so was there any forensic evidence that was saved from the remains of Levi
or from the crime scene? Yes actually there is which I will talk about in just a moment.
Okay don't mean to jump ahead. Oh no you're fine. I mean in this day and age back in 1997 DNA was
not a thing. No but they a lot of times they save that stuff. Well Albert Samples was arrested for
Talent's murder pretty quickly. During his interrogation he made mention of the gun used to
kill Levi Frady and police either overlooked his comment or disregarded this information. Would you
like to know why? I would like to know why. They wanted to know more information on Marshall
Talent's stabbing. That's what they were focusing on. So they prioritized the guy doing a drug deal
stuff over the child that was possibly murdered. The only thing that I can think of from this
scenario is that because it was in 2020 even though we have this emergency alert system in place
because of the time that went by maybe the investigators weren't really familiar with the
name Levi Frady. I don't know I mean I have no idea why they were more interested in this stabbing.
And I don't know why they couldn't ask about both things. It's not like you only get to
allow a certain number of questions you know. Go ahead and ask about the stabbing and then
follow up on the gun. Yeah now the reason that the gun was even brought up is because when
Talent and samples got into an altercation at some point in time during the interrogation he had
removed his shirt to show the police that Talent had shot him in the arm so that's why he stabbed
him in self-defense. Oh okay. When they asked him what gun was used Albert replied the same one that
they shot Levi Frady with. Oh my god and they didn't even go hey do a quick google search who's
this Levi Frady kid. I know. So was Talent of the correct age that he could have been the guy that
was seen by the bike or near on the street where the bike was found? I could not find any information
on him as much as I looked. I really couldn't that's a great question I mean I would love to
answer that for you but I don't have an answer today. Well either of them it sounds like would
have been in their 70s in 2020 so yeah that's very true. Georgia legislation called for Levi's call
which is the state's version of the amber alert system that I had mentioned a little while ago.
This emergency system dispatches across everyone's cell phone and those digital signs that you guys
see on the expressway or interstate anytime a child goes missing. Levi's call partners with
Georgia broadcasters so the news media, law enforcement officials, and the emergency management
system to create real-time alerts on abducted children under the age of 18. So they have some
pretty specific criteria that they use it has to be somebody under the age of 18. Non-custodial
parents are not allowed to request an emergency response activation so you have to be a custodial
parent or guardian before that can be issued. That seems like it's a little bit lopsided. Yeah. I
mean just because somebody's the custodial parent doesn't mean they're going to do anything to hurt
a child. Yeah unfortunately when divorces happen it's not always a good parenting situation. Right
if you as Valo like that's yeah if her older brother had been able to report his sister
missing that probably would have been solved a lot sooner but yeah that's rough. Yeah that sounds
like a little bit wrong headed there as far as I'm concerned. Absolutely. Alerts with the Levi's call
alerts are transmitted through the Georgia Emergency Management Agency and pictures are
immediately sent out to the news media so they're broadcasted pretty quickly and really that's all
I have on Levi. He would be 36 years old today and if any of our listeners have any information on
this case you can contact the Georgia Bureau of Investigations in Cleveland Georgia at 706-348-4866
or 1-800-597-8477 if you need to remember that one is 800-597-TIPS. So that is Levi Frady but I'm
going to move now to talk about Amber Hagerman. She was born in Texas on November 25th 1986
and she is the girl known from the Amber Alert Emergency System that it's named after. On January
12th 1996 Amber and her family went to Arlington Texas to visit their grandparents. The next day
on January 13th of 1996 Amber and her six-year-old brother Ricky got permission to go out bike riding.
Their mother Donna warned them to stay within one block of the house but around 3 10 p.m. the kids
made their way to an abandoned Winn-Dixie parking lot about two blocks from the house. People who do
not know what a Winn-Dixie is because I sure did not know what that was before I moved to Georgia
it's a grocery store. Winn-Dixie is known to be located in rural towns in southern states I can't
really say that I've ever seen them in big towns and honestly I don't even know if it exists anymore
because over time over the years I've seen many of them shut down. Well I've lived in Georgia coming
up on 10 years and I've never seen a Winn-Dixie. I think they're more western okay because I think
Kroger owns them now I only know that because I worked for Kroger but yeah I'm pretty sure Kroger
owns them and now they're just on the west coast probably. Okay so they probably still exist but
Kroger merged with the rest of them yeah gotcha. Well little Ricky got scared about traveling
further than where he was told to which is cool because he's a little rural follower yeah and he
turned back to return to his grandparents house but Amber kept going she decided she was going to
go on down the road on her bike. Once Ricky arrived back at the house his mom asked about
Amber of course and sent him back to fetch her. Ricky rode to the Winn-Dixie and found her little
pink bike but did not find Amber so of course he went back home to tell his mom. Oh no that poor
little kid. Oh I know Amber's grandfather Jimmy Whitson immediately got in his car to go looking
for Amber. Between the time that Ricky had doubled back to go home the first time and
Jimmy going out to look for Amber only 10 minutes had passed. Well it's only two blocks away right
so it you know you can move fast between those places but a lot can happen in 10 minutes.
And if you're on a bike too yeah that time will go quickly. After the police were called 78 year old
eyewitness Jimmy Keville stated that at approximately three o'clock pm that afternoon
he was in his backyard when he saw a man get out of a full-sized single cab black pickup truck with
a short wheelbase and a clear rear window. And again I'm being very specific on these descriptions
just in case anybody knows anything. And for those of you who don't know what a short wheelbase is I
actually did my research on that I went to go look up a picture. It's not an extended cab pickup
truck like you would see today. I don't even know if they had extended cabs back in the 80s which was
the model that the truck was believed to be used in in Amber's abduction. This man was seen snatching
Amber straight off her bike. Amber at this point was kicking and screaming but he threw her into
his vehicle and sped off. And did that man call the police? He sure did. Okay. He immediately went
inside to call the police. I mean I would too if I heard if I saw a kid screaming. I don't care if
that's my parent mad that somebody didn't come home. If that was my parent mad at me because I
wasn't where I was not supposed to be or if I didn't come home on time I would basically call
the police too even if that person was related to them because like I said with that woman in
Washington DC you're scared for your child and sometimes your emotions take over. You just can't
be too careful these days. That's right. Yeah I'm sure the police would rather we said the same thing
when we did the episode with picture of the scene but the police would probably rather get a call
that turns out to be just silly and nothing rather than nobody call and now they have no idea where
this kid is you know. Oh yes. And even if you thought it was going to be a parent snatching the
kid and throwing her in the cab of the truck the parent's gonna grab the bike and throw it in the
bed. So true. I mean they're gonna be mad but they're not gonna leave a bike behind. Yeah you're
absolutely right. Well Jimmy did the right thing as far as the 1990s era this story absolutely went
viral. Police immediately began searching for Amber over the next four days without any breaks or
very little sleep. Everybody was on watch for her. Well four days later on January 17th 1996
a man was walking his dog and discovered Amber lying naked and deceased in a creek approximately
four miles away from that Windexie. Her autopsy showed that Amber had multiple cuts and bruises
all over her body and died from a slash to her throat that was either caused by a knife or a
screwdriver. My god that's so brutal that poor thing. Yes. What an awful thing to go through. Yes.
Police believe that Amber's abduction occurred by a local man who was presented with an opportunity
so it was not planned out in advance he just saw her and decided in that very moment that he was
going to snatch her off the streets. Yeah. Oh what's your cat's name again? Puss. Oh yeah.
Puss agrees with us. Puss does. She says I am against violence in all its forms. She can sense
the emotions and she likes to cheer us back up. Yes I know this one's getting a little rough here.
I mean I guess I have a question here. If police believe that this was a local person that had
snatched Amber how many full-sized single cab black pickup trucks with a short wheelbase are
registered in the area? But it's Texas. I was gonna say yeah maybe but it is a small town Texas. I feel
like specifically that car you could probably name every person that has that car. Oh yeah.
Maybe so did the guy have a description of the man who? Why yes. I mean a good description not
like just a middle-aged guy. Middle-aged white guy? No he had a he had a pretty good description. Let
me see if I can find this in my notes because I actually wrote that down. I wasn't sure if you had
fully described the guy or just the truck. Nope I haven't described him yet. He was in his 20s or
30s at the time so he'd be about between 46 and 56 today and he is believed to be white or Hispanic.
The perpetrator who took Amber stood under six foot tall had a medium build and had dark brown
or black hair. So there you go. I think that's a pretty decent description though and I just I mean
I'm going back to why yes we're in Texas but in this instance I think police need to follow up
on every single pickup truck. I know it would be exhausting but I don't know. Yeah well I wonder how
large the police force is and if they didn't have enough manpower I'm sure they could have called in
the state police. Oh yeah. Or the what is it the Texas Marshals is that what they call them there
or the Rangers Texas Rangers? Yeah and they also didn't have like the databases where you could
easily search okay every Toyota every like registered in this county or whatever. But how
times have changed with technology for sure. Police believe that something likely triggered this
abductor like maybe a recent argument or maybe losing a job something like that that may have
gotten him to act impulsively when he saw Amber. Right just taking out his rage on the first person
he found or the first person he thought would be vulnerable to him. Yeah wouldn't fight back as
hard. Yeah. Okay so he's 20s to 30s dark brown black hair Hispanic or white and under six feet
tall. That's a fair description when you also know what his truck looked like. Yeah. So how did they
never really even come up with any suspect for that guy? No idea that is what's baffling to me.
Yeah I don't get it. That's frustrating. Yes well 14 days after Amber's abduction a regular citizen
like you and me named Diane Simone wrote a local radio station in Dallas Texas asking if local
broadcasters could partner with law enforcement to get the word out quickly when children are
abducted. Diane did not have any ties to the Hagerman family. She was just a woman following
up on this story very carefully on the news. She felt compelled from these events to send that
letter to the media. I know when I see this on the news it really hurts my heart so she actually did
something about it. That's awesome good for her. Yeah she wrote a letter to the local news station
proposing an emergency response system called Amber's Plan which prompted Dallas Fort Worth
broadcasting officials to come up with what is known today as the broadcast emergency response
system. This of course is where all our phones go off at one time and I say good for you Diane
for taking action on this because more of us need to do that. Absolutely to not just say oh I wish
someone would do something but to actually stand up and do something yourself that's awesome. Yes.
Let me ask you a question though Deb Amber's remains were found four days after she was snatched.
Yes. How long had they thought she had been deceased? Would it have helped if they had had,
did they have four days that they could have found her or or had he killed her the first time? I did
not find any information on that. That's what's so odd about these two stories even with Levi and
Amber so little information is to be found out there about the circumstances of their death how
long they were there. I don't even know how long Levi was left in the forest. I think a lot of that
time now information that we get about those kinds of details I think a lot of that's included in the
autopsy findings and I don't know that those were always available in the 90s. Yeah I agree with you.
Well what I was thinking is because they're both unsolved cases I wonder if they're almost doing
that on purpose that they have a little bit of leverage if somebody were to confess or turn
somebody in. That's a good point too. Yeah maybe. Good thought. So true I always say you know police
do hold certain information at the chest so yes so they can hold somebody accountable if they ever
find them. Authorities used the letters in Amber's name to call this alert system America's Missing
Broadcast Emergency Response which is known as the Amber Alert. I thought that was pretty cool.
It's not just named after her it is definitely given that long name and it's an official name
but I did not know there was meaning behind that which is really cool. I also didn't know that but
it is great because it was a gesture to include her in it because it was her case that sort of
prompted the whole thing. Well like Levi's call certain criteria must be met before it's activated
and law enforcement has to determine if cases meet specifications which I had mentioned non-custodial
adults cannot request the Amber Alert they have to be under the age of 18 and so on.
Once a missing child is established police agencies notify broadcast media and an Amber Alert
is distributed over your phone and on those interstate digital signs that you see. Believe
it or not you guys I did not know this Amber Alerts are now on Facebook. Have you guys seen that?
Oh Beth have you seen that? No offense. Bailey I don't know how much you are into Facebook because
of your age. No you are correct she is not really into Facebook. Well I was in high school not
anymore. Okay that was a while ago. Yeah. I think I have seen an Amber Alert on Facebook but I don't
see them very often so I guess they must still be locally targeted not just across all of Facebook.
I think that they are targeted based on where you're located. Yeah that's true. I do know that if
I'm driving down the interstate and I see the sign now I'm looking around for the silver Nissan
with ZXQYYJR you know. Yes. Whenever I see those it's usually like at the tail end of a long road
trip so it's always like well this is like a game I can play now and it's horrible to say that but
it's like okay now I can focus on something and that's why I recognize them so often. This will
keep me alert long enough to get the rest of the way home. Yeah exactly. Yeah. It does wake you up
for a second like whew somebody else is having a bad day because that sucks. It does. During an
interview in 2016 Amber's mother Donna is quoted as saying that this emergency system is bittersweet
obviously because she wonders if Amber would have been returned safely had the system already been
in place. Totally agree there. Totally agree. Right. I mean that's the same thought I had a
minute ago is that I wonder if it would have been the difference in finding her before it was too
late. Yes now interesting enough in my research what I discovered is believe it or not once those
Amber alert systems are sent out kids are discovered or found or rescued rather quickly
because whoever took them in the first place usually give themselves up really quickly because
they see it out there they know everybody's looking for them so they'd rather just give it up. So I
thought that was pretty interesting that they turn themselves in really really quickly after they see
those Amber alerts not everybody but a lot of them do which is really cool. Well they're thinking I
can either walk in there and turn myself in or I can be the guy on the 11 o'clock news with my face
on the concrete and my hands cuffed behind my back. Yes. All right as of May of 2022 the Amber
alert system has recovered 1,114 kidnapped or abducted children so that's awesome. That is.
There are currently 82 Amber alert systems in place throughout the United States including Levi's
call that we discussed here in the state of Georgia. The Amber alert system is not just in
the United States it's also internationally used now in 33 countries and counting. So what a great
thing that Diane. That yeah I mean good for her that was a great idea she was really thinking
outside the box you know. Yes okay so you had mentioned earlier was there any DNA available
and police did collect DNA for this case and they do hope that this will help close the case one day
there is nothing in concrete but they do have DNA available for testing. Have they run testing
against the database events against CODIS? That is not clear nothing's confirmed and I did read
that in some notes that I found that they have the DNA but they don't have anything that can confirm
anything just yet. Okay well if they aren't in the system then that won't that won't hit. No and then
too if they don't have much of DNA maybe they're saving it. I wanted to point something out which
was also pretty interesting in Amber's case you would think after 26 years that this would be a
cold case but it's not. That's good it's not I'm glad it's not. Yeah I had no idea that cold cases
reached this kind of criteria but apparently a case is not classified as a cold case unless there
are no leads for 180 days and police have never gone without a lead for 180 days in these 26 years
that have passed. That's amazing isn't it? But they've had all those leads and they still don't have
any suspects. I mean that's what gets me I guess is about the fact that somebody was very distinct
on the description of the person that took her, the vehicle that was taken, and if they do have a
little bit of DNA I just don't understand why there's no closure just yet. That's my two cents.
Yeah I agree with you it seems like they had enough that they should have at least been able
to canvas and find somebody to talk to about it. I wonder if it's one of those things where after
so much time that they maybe know who for the most part did this where they just don't have enough
for a warrant arrest you just don't know. Yeah just like I said before we don't know what they
know and what they don't know half the time. It's like that search warrant it took them seven years
to go search Talents House in Levi's case. I don't know how you can make any excuse for that though.
They knew that information for seven years. I don't know I guess they just really have to make
sure that they're following laws and have their ducks in a row before they can accuse because
imagine the lawsuits right? Well it came from his partner. If your partner says my partner is the
one who has the gun who killed this child I think you have to investigate that or at least go and
ask the guy do you have this gun? Yeah not even arrest them you don't necessarily need to go and
gun blaze it and say you're under arrest but like at least have a conversation. At least question
yeah yes well they couldn't have that conversation because the delivery man found him deceased. Well
I know but they he wasn't deceased seven years earlier when they first found out. Yeah that's so
true you are right. So that the whole case both of these cases are just frustrating. They are and
they're so similar too. Very much. Well if you have any information on Amber's case you can call the
Arlington police at 817-575-8823 or Crime Stoppers of Toront County 817-469-8477 which is also 817-469
TIPS. Those are the cases of Levi, Frady, and Amber Hagerman and since my sister Beth is not here to
ask I usually note that we have a teachable moment and I have one today if you guys are willing to
listen to this. Oh no we refuse to learn anything. Of course what's the teachable moment? Okay I know
from what I do for a living that when you see something for a really long time you know it's
there you just don't pay attention to it anymore. On that note me personally I am guilty of seeing
those digital road signs showing an amber alert and really not thinking much of it past maybe one
or two minutes which is horrible to admit because Bailey I liked your idea how you consciously make
a game of it especially if you're on a long road trip but here's the deal when those alerts go off
it really is a serious situation. A child has been taken so time is of the essence and that's when
you really need to pay attention to your surroundings not just for that minute or two but until that
child is found you need to watch the news you need to just look at those cars on the road just because
I might see a vehicle with Florida license plates I don't know maybe that's the getaway car it
doesn't mean that they're not going to drive through Georgia to get to another state so don't
think just because it's got out of state license plates that they're not driving through your state.
So my teachable moment here is to put your instincts on high alert and take an active role
in saving a child from the same fate that Levi and Amber succumbed to Diane Simone did and she
changed history so you go girl yeah she did yeah that is amazing that's my teachable moment. I think
people just need to put themselves in the shoes of the people who love that child that are missing
just think for one second what we talked about earlier when your child has disappeared at the
fair or the mall or at galleons under a canoe yes you're in a total panic mode just imagine if that
was your child that that amber alert was issued for you would want people to pay attention and
help you find your kid absolutely and it takes a village when I was in Washington DC I was literally
walking towards that woman who had lost her kids to see if I could help when she found them but it
takes a village quit being a bystander and watching do something yeah don't assume somebody else is
going to handle it well yeah if you're like the bystander you're probably going to be a lot calmer
and thinking more rationing about where would a child hide right here rather than the mom who's
like where where where like yeah going back and forth you know right because her mind's in a flurry
yeah well you did a great job covering those steps and I I didn't know the Levi story but I'm happy
that you shared it with us you know and I I did know that Amber I had heard her story but I didn't
know almost any of the details that you gave so thank you for for informing us about absolutely
well I want to thank you guys for being good sports and playing today it was a really really
good time having you guys today it was very enjoyable for me well me too why'd you say it
like that because I didn't want to speak for you she's an adult she gets to say her own things
that's true well to our listeners be sure to check out true crime bnb wherever you get your podcast
and follow them on social media and since my sister Beth is not here today I know you're
listening to this though guess what I get to say that's a wrap thank you though hold on Dennis is
barking can you hold up one second so sorry be right back where's plus get her meows out of the way
squish her a couple times she said if she meowed she would just leave him in anyway
okay we left you a surprise goody I love that I love surprises
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