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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted

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to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals

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and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the

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content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, I'm Deb. And I'm Beth. And we want to welcome you to another episode

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of Dying to be Found. Beth, we were talking with some of our fellow podcasters and they

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made a really good point. And what would that be?

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I am not sure that all of our listeners know that you and I are sisters.

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That shocked me. I guess we just assumed. Yes, exactly. So I'm bringing up now. And

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I thought that we'd give that a little mention because I wanted our new listeners to know

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that we both grew up in Canada, but I now live in the United States and you're still

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there. Yeah. And sometimes I'm sorry I didn't move

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down with you guys. Sometimes I kick myself even today because I miss you guys. But I

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decided to stay in Canada and now... Oh, I know. It's a long distance relationship.

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Yeah. And we reconnected through podcasting and...

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Thank goodness for technology. Yes.

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And you're bringing my Canadian accent back because while I was at work today, I actually

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said eh at the end of my sentence. It was so...

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Did you? Did they say something? No, they always say something about my outs

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and abouts, but they don't usually say anything about that because I don't say it too much.

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I say it in a lot. Eh? All right. So yeah, we have a long distance

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sisterhood and I will tell you, Beth, I don't know if I've told you this lately, but you

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are one of my best friends and I'm so glad you're here with me.

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I feel the same way. Thanks. I feel so loved.

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Oh, you are loved. Well, if this is your first time joining us, be sure to check us out on

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social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Pinterest at Dine2BFound. You

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can also learn more about us on our website at Dine2BFound spelled just like you see it

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on our logo. So you can just go look up to see what Beth and I are up to. And do you

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have anything else to add? No, no, I'm interested to see what you're

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going to tell us. All right. So Beth, you recently took us to

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Finland and now I wanted to take you to Belgium. Oh, interesting. That's such a beautiful country,

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isn't it? It is. And I'll tell you, Belgium is one of

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our top five countries for listeners. So I just wanted to show a little bit of love and

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to cover a story from there. So here we go. All right.

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I will say it's a little bit of a doozy. Today we're going to talk about Andres Pandy, who

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was born in the Ukraine on June 1st, 1927. So we're going back a little ways. Andres

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immigrated to Belgium in 1956 after becoming a refugee during a battle between Hungary

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and the Soviet Union. So there was a little bit of a conflict. Andres fled his native

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country and eventually started a Hungarian Protestant church for other Hungarian immigrants

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in the Dutch or Flemish region of Belgium. Well, that sounds interesting.

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Well, let me give you a little bit of a rundown on how Belgium is set up geographically as

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far as language. The Northern region speaks Dutch primarily, and the Central and Southern

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region speaks French, while the Far Eastern region of Belgium speaks German. Did you know

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they had three languages there, Beth? I didn't.

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I didn't either. So that's quite interesting. Well, Andres established himself in the Northern

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region of Belgium where they speak Dutch, and he opened a church. He eventually met

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and married his first wife, Ilona, and they had three children together. The oldest was

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a girl whom they named Agnes, and she plays a big role in the story, Beth, which we will

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get to, but Andres and Ilona's other two children were two boys named Daniel and Zoltan.

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Now that's a cool name, Zoltan. Isn't it?

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And I will also mention too that at this church, they set up an orphanage of sorts, so they

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had a foster system. So he was doing good things, right? However, unlike the fairy tales

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that were all told as children, things did not have a happy ending between Andres and

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Ilona. Oh dear.

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I know. Well, Ilona left with her two boys, leaving Agnes behind to stay with Andres.

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So they lived in separate households, raised the children up separately. And in 1967, Andres

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eventually moved on to remarry a woman named Edith Fintore, whom he had met through a personal

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ad called, get this, The Lonely Hearts.

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Hmm. Kind of reminds me of The Lonely Heart Club.

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What is that?

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I don't know, but doesn't that, doesn't that resonate with you?

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It does.

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Must have been a movie.

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Yeah, it could be. To me, it's no different from online dating today. It's just got a

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different name.

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How did you and John meet?

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Well, I've talked about this before. Yeah, we met online and I'm quite proud of it.

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Yes. You made yourself a very, very good catch.

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You got me there. All right. So Edith came into the relationship with three of her own

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children whose names were Tunde, Tamiya, and Andrea. Andres and Ilona would eventually

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have two more children together. So the couple had six children between them, which if you

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included Agnes into the mix, she would have been the oldest. And so they had six kids.

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That's a lot.

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Definitely. They got to have their act together for sure. Oh, what is the name of that movie?

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Like The Sound of Music.

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Yes.

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Andres took an immediate liking to Edith's daughter Tamiya, but not in a good way.

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Uh oh.

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He proceeded to seduce her under his own roof without Edith's knowledge and bathed by seduce,

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I mean, he molested her.

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That's terrible. I hate that.

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I know. According to Agnes, Tamiya eventually became pregnant. And one thing I didn't mention

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to you already was that Andres was in a sexual relationship with Agnes, his oldest daughter.

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And this had been going on since she was 13 years old.

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Oh my goodness. How old was Agnes and Edith when her children moved in?

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You know, I'm not really sure because I couldn't really find much information on that. So I

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will get into a little bit more details about Andres' relationships with Tamiya and Agnes.

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But right now I really don't have that answer for you, Beth. I don't really know. I'm going

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to assume she was in her teens. She was already in that relationship with her father when

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she was 13. If I were to guess it'd be somewhere around the age of 15, 16, who knows? I think

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it's important to mention that either out of jealousy or under the direction of her

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father, Agnes attempted to bludgeon Tamiya to death and it was not successful.

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Oh, I even hate the thoughts of that. I know. In 1984, after this incident, Tamiya fled

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to Canada, then eventually made her way to Hungary. Well, she never ended up coming back

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to Belgium ever. So out of curiosity, where do you think my story is going to go from

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here? Well, I don't know.

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Well, okay. Let me tell you. Around 1986, Andres Pandy, along with his daughter Agnes,

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who was 38 years old at this time, set out on a killing spree. I didn't see that coming.

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Yeah. They were very selective about their victims and they were not random by any means,

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Beth. Andres chose family members. Oh God. I may imply that this was a group effort between

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Andres and Agnes. In my opinion, he was the mastermind toward Agnes taking any part in

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these killings, which I will get to in just a couple of minutes. Okay. So I'm going to

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jump forward just a little bit, Beth, and talk about how Andres got caught. Okay. And

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I only mention Andres because Agnes had gone to the police to report these murders of her

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family members, which at the time, Beth, they did not take seriously at all. What? Yep.

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The official police investigation on Andres Pandy took place around 1992 when pressure

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from the government erupted from a local community. Now, let me just tell you, this blew my mind

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just this morning when I was on my way to work. I started listening to this podcast

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and it's called Le Monstre. I was into episode four when I could not believe what I heard

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because the name that dropped, there was a pedophile that was on the loose back in the

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1990s. Okay. So a string of kidnappings and murders were occurring throughout Belgium.

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So it was a really high profile case. By 1997, this high profile case targeted a pedophile

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murder case involving Mark Dutroux, which prompted public outcry to take action. So

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I'm just going to tell you a little bit of what I learned. I could not believe I was

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listening to this case because I knew we were about to record this session. Now that's a

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coincidence. I know. Dutroux was originally convicted of abducting and raping five girls

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back in 1989. He was arrested but was released on parole after serving only three years in

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prison. That's disgusting. Yes, it is. And this went on for so many years, Beth. So if

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you have an opportunity to go listen to that docu-series, it's called Le Monstre. Oh my

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gosh. You will connect the dots beyond what I'm telling you about today. Oh, I'd love

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to listen to it. And what episode was it? Do you remember? Well, it was episode four

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when the name Mark Dutroux, which is D-U-T-R-O-U-X is how you spell his last name. But there

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are so many circumstances leading up to his arrest. Okay. And this public outcry from

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the community had just occurred and the government was feeling a ton of pressure to do something

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about the crime sprees going across Belgium. Thinking about it, the timeline between Dutroux

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committing his crimes and him serving time, then being released after three years, I would

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say there was probably an eight year window of everything that had occurred with the girls

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missing and the police investigating and Dutroux going to jail, going to prison. Belgium residents

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had organized a major protest against the government to bring awareness of officials'

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failure to investigate crimes, which ultimately led to Dutroux's release into society. The

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demonstrators felt that the government had botched efforts to formulate a plan to reduce

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crime, which they felt that the country was at risk for violent crimes. So they did not

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feel the police were doing anything to keep them safe. And so public outcry really put

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pressure on the police department at this point because at this time of the protest,

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police officials had 60 open cases for missing persons, 60 cases. That's a lot. Absolutely.

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And several of these cases included Ilona Pandy, Edith Pandy, Tunde and Andrea Fintore,

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and Daniel and Zoltan Pandy. Any of these names ring a bell? That's Andreas' entire

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family. Absolutely. Well, during their original investigations, police had a hard time identifying

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suspects, although Andres was on the list and they simply let things fall through the

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cracks. The missing persons cases of, I'm going to call them the Pandy family. So the

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missing Pandy family case was put on the back burner. Oh dear. Yes. And as I had mentioned,

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due to the public outcry, police did begin looking at their cold cases once again. And

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after careful consideration, they chose one of these cases to address based on the evidence

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that they had in the file. Guess which case that was? I hope it was the Pandy family.

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It was. It was the case of Andres Pandy. Wow. That is fantastic. Isn't it? So the high profile

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case of Mark Dutroux raised awareness and the police reopened the case. Wow. I know.

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Well, back in 1992, Agnes Pandy, who was 38 years old at the time, had decided to go to

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the police and accuse her father of trying to seduce her. And I had already mentioned

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what that means. Then he wanted her to help him murder several of his family members.

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Remember Agnes had stated that she was seduced since the age of 13 and now she's 38. What

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a ruin of a life. I know. Somewhere along the way, Agnes did state that the relationship

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she had with her father did become consensual. And I would say probably Beth because she

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was under his control for so long. It's almost like that Stockholm syndrome. Oh, yes. Yeah.

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So it could be very similar to Stockholm syndrome where you feel sympathy for your captor. And

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I wouldn't say that she was captured at this point. But since she was in that relationship

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for so long, you know that he had to have control over her. For sure. Now, the family

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members that Agnes spoke to the police about were Pandy's first wife, his second wife,

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his two stepdaughters, and his two sons. Now get this Beth, police initially ignored Agnes's

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allegations against her father. Because of all things, they took Agnes's appearance

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and demeanor into consideration. That's crazy. Well, how was her appearance and demeanor?

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Well, in 1992, the police report described Agnes as mousy. And she simply blended into

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society. What do you think of that? Talk about judging a book by its cover. No pun intended

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because did I tell you what Agnes does for a living? No, you didn't. She was a librarian.

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Okay, so yeah, part of the reason that police felt Agnes went unnoticed is because she worked

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at the local library and was simply an average person like you and me. Nothing stood out

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about her. That is so unusual that just because of the way she looked. I know. You're right.

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Judging that book by the cover. Yeah. Now I will say during her initial report, she did

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have a story to tell. Do tell. Agnes self reported and told police that when she was

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13, her father had sent her out of town on holiday. I don't know where she went. I could

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not find that information, but he sent her away for a little while. Okay. After returning

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from holiday, Andres had told Agnes that her stepmother Edith plus her two stepsisters,

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Tunde and Andrea, has simply disappeared. No further explanation given. They just took

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off. That's crazy. How would anybody just disappear? You'd think there would be an

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outcry, you know, there'd be people, neighbors, friends. Oh, yes, I would think so too. I

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mean, but you do have to remember this was back in the 90s. Okay. You know, life was

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so much different then before the new millennium. Yes, it was. At this point, Andres had turned

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Agnes into his sex slave. And once again, because of her appearance and demeanor, police

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did not feel there was enough evidence to pursue any allegations and sent Agnes on her

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way. How would you feel if you finally mustered up enough courage to walk into a police station

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and tell them a tale of what she had been experiencing practically her entire life and

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the police just brush her off because she was mousy and she looked average? I think

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I would lose it. Yeah, poor Agnes. Yes. All right. So let me mention that back in 1992,

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the police did make an effort to investigate as well they should have, but more so likely

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out of obligation due to the demonstrations going on at that time. Andres had told investigators

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that his family had simply returned to Hungary. They took him at his word and never looked

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into any further allegations against Andres. All right, pause. Let me just ask you, I'm

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thinking with the fact that Andres was a preacher. Do you think maybe he was just simply convincing

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to the police because of his livelihood? Yes, I do. I think people look to anybody in

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clergy as somebody who's truthful, honest, and deeply committed to human beings and making

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lives better. Oh yeah. Well, I will tell you this, the prosecutor at the time, let me see

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if I can get my French right. Francois Moncier took Agnes at her word and continued to pursue

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the case. So good for them. Yes. Yeah. Let me give you an example here. Agnes had even

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gone to the newspaper to have an article written because the police didn't take action. Agnes

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had proclaimed that her father had turned out to be one of the worst serial killers

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in history. Yeah, it sounds like he is. Yeah. Well, guess what? Even with this article,

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Agnes was not fully taken seriously by the media or once again, the police officials.

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I mean, what does it take for poor Agnes to be taken seriously here? Well, I guess you

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can kind of see the other side because if somebody just walks in and says, I've killed

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or I've helped killed and naming big numbers, they would think, how could they have missed

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it? How could this girl have been involved when she does look innocent? So I'm starting

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to see what the police, how they are looking at her. Okay. Well, that's a good perspective.

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I never thought of that as I'm looking at this research, I'm like, oh my gosh, poor

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Agnes. Nobody's taken her seriously, but I suppose you're right to have somebody just

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walk in. What is this? April Fools? Are you being serious right now? Yeah, exactly. So

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regardless of the police perceptions, Agnes continued to be relentless with her allegations

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against her father. And she had later testified that Andres had raped her beginning at the

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age of 13, like I had mentioned, and then he did turn her into his sex slave for the

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next several decades. But I mean, Beth, she was 13 and at that age, you're still quite

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impressionable. You're going to believe those people closest to you, especially if it's

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a parent. Those relationships are built on trust. And this is the time when kids turn

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into adolescents. And I know there's that huge hormonal change, but there is nothing

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normal about having a relationship with your father. No, there isn't, not at all. But you

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did say she's impressionable at that age. And I think maybe you look up to your father

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as somebody with authority and somebody who's always right. Oh, yes. Well, let me talk a

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little bit about Agnes's accounts in this situation. She later stated that she and Andres

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held an incestual relationship that began early in life and it allegedly continued into

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her 40s. Wow, that's a long time. I know. So let's backtrack to when Agnes stated that

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she had attempted to murder her stepsister, Tamiya. According to her statement, Andres

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had ordered Agnes to complete his dirty work and to kill Tamiya. Remember now, Tamiya had

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said that she was pregnant and authorities do believe that Agnes was either under duress

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when these events occurred because she was more than likely under Andres control or she

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was just simply jealous. Agnes admitted later that her compliance to her father's demands

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were based on jealousy and duress. Now remember, she was under his influence since she was

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13, but Beth, when she self-reported, she was in her 40s when she came to authorities.

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Okay. I'm going to say that based on the ease of Agnes's confession, she clearly had a guilty

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conscience and couldn't live with herself. What do you think of that? That's exactly,

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exactly my thoughts. You know, you get to be alone some evenings and you're ironing,

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for instance. And like me, when I have those times, I ruminate about my past. And that's

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probably what happened to her, you know, thoughts start, you know, at 40 years old is when you

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start feeling all these, why did I do that? And so regrets. Yes. I don't live my life

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with regrets, Beth. I just chalk it up as experience, lessons learned. And I really,

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everything is a learning experience, you know, it just makes you stronger. It makes you who

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you are and it guides you into your future. Yeah. Yeah. Well, her accounts to the police

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were rather gruesome. Trigger warning. There's going to be a little bit of graphic descriptions

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here. So just a little bit of a trigger warning. Agnes had described her father as being a

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bully and authoritarian in addition to a sexual predator who preyed on vulnerable women and

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foster children. And remember, I had told you that Andres had started that church and

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he had a foster system there. Andres and Agnes would place the bodies of their victims into

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vats of drain cleaner to decompose their bodies or they would dismember them, then dump the

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remains at a local abattoir, also known as a local meat processing plant or a rendering

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plant, Beth, if you remember the case of Robert Picton that we had talked about. Right. Yeah.

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This is where, don't forget, this is where your makeup comes from and your toiletries

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and your baking supplies. Don't tell me that kind of stuff. I'm always telling Al, don't

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tell me what's in hot dogs. I don't want to hear because I like them so much. Okay. So

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Agnes was placed in charge of removing the organs from her family members before they

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placed the bodies in these acid vats. And from my understanding, they dumped body parts

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at the meat plants. I don't get that. Jumping Johesifats. That is gross removing organs

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from the family members. What the heck is jumping Johesifats? What? What did you say?

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Jumping Johesifats. Now I can't say it. You never heard of that? I've never heard that.

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What is that? It's like an OMG. Or Holy Moly. Exactly. Agnes is Holy Moly a lot, but I'm

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wondering if this might be an East Coast thing that I picked up when I lived out East. It

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could be. How about Good Golly? Oh yes. Dad used to say that all the time. Yeah. So I

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don't understand how they would just be able to dismember bodies and go take them to the

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local plant and just dump them there. Was it outdoors? Did they just, you know, how

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some people will drop off a bag of, I don't know, old clothes and just leave it outside

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of goodwill or whatever? What did they do? I don't understand that concept. I don't

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either. Either that or the people in the abattoir were in on it. Mmm. Never thought of that.

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But they probably didn't. Just probably leaving it there. Yeah. I'm sure they were very sneaky.

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Agnes had described in full detail how she and Andres shot or bludgeoned their family

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members to death, then cut them into pieces, placed them into bags, then sent some of them

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to the abattoir while placing others in the vat of cleaning fluid. Now police finally

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took Agnes seriously and went to her home with search warrants and again questioned

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Andres. The original account that Andres had given the police when Agnes first reported

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these murders was that his first wife, Ilona, and his boys had moved to either France or

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South America. He also stated that Edith and her girls had moved away to Germany. So with

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very little explanation beyond this, police seemed satisfied with these explanations and

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just moved on. Case closed. Right then and there? Yeah. They were like, okay, well, he

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sounds believable. He's a preacher. He's a pastor in the area. He's got a good explanation

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as to where his first and second wife and all the kids left and all the kids went. So

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all right, case closed. Let's move on to case number 59. Well, it seems that when Andres

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was first questioned, he did become a little spooked, Beth, because during this time period,

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he took the time to cover his tracks by hiring actors to pose as family members. Geez. Yeah.

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Guess where he got them from? Now, let me remind you, Andres was a preacher at the local

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church who worked actively with fostering in the community. Andres took several of the

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foster children from his church and had them pose in pictures in order to paint the story

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that his family was alive and well. What do you think of that? That is, that's a laughable

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act. Hiring actors for goodness sakes. This is just so wrong on all levels. It's crazy.

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I don't even know how a human being even starts to think of doing something like this. That's

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quite methodical. Yes. Yes, it is. If you're thinking about the fact that somebody is now

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putting in an action plan into place to cover his tracks, that's very methodical. Agnes

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confessed that she was solely responsible for her mother, Ilona's death, but was an

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accomplice to the rest of the murders, including her brothers, Daniel and Zoltan and her stepsisters,

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Tunde and Andrea. So let me ask you based on Agnes's account, is it reasonable to say

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that authorities should go ahead and arrest Andres at this point? I mean, I'm going to

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say this is at least the second or third time that that Agnes had gone to the police. No

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idea. Well, authorities decided that by all accounts, Agnes had a very interesting tale

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to tell. But once again, there was not sufficient enough evidence to pursue this case likely

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based on those pictures that Andres produced. Get out of here. That is just ridiculous.

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I know. And prosecutors definitely felt though, that there was enough evidence to indict Andres,

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but of course they still had the burden of proving their case. That's true. I've talked

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to a police officer here about a case that is high profile and they've never solved it.

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And I did ask, I says, you know, why can't you guys catch this, this killer? Lack of

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evidence, lack of evidence. Wow. They, I mean, they really have to have their ducks in a

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row with that for sure. Cause they don't want to come back and have somebody sue them for

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false arrest. That's right. I have the impression that the authorities know who the perpetrator

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was, but it's all the lack of evidence. Yeah. And plus they probably don't want to, you

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know, we talk about keeping things close to the chest. You can't give away a ton of information

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or else it can blow the case. Well, authorities later stated that they initially believed

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that Tamiya's pregnancy had sparked the Pandies crime spree. And they also believe that Tamiya's

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pregnancy may have been what set Andres off in the first place to begin that killing spree.

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Why would that be? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe because he was afraid she was going

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to open her mouth. Okay. And spill the beans, you know, because if he was already in that

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incestuous relationship with Agnes and he moved on to Tamiya. I mean, when you got too

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many people that know what's really going on, somebody is going to open up. Yes. And

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upon Agnes's accounts and confession, police did obtain a search warrant and discovered

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the following on several abandoned properties known to be owned by Andres Pandy, which some

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of the findings, Beth, were very horrifying. I'm sure. In the basement of one of Andres's

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homes, police found blood splatter on the walls, ashes containing bone fragments, teeth,

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kneecaps and an unidentified meat in the freezer. Geez. That is just crazy. Yeah. Agnes confirmed

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that her direct family member and step family members all met the same fate after she and

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her father had used kitchen knives and axes to break down the corpses. Wow. One of the

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family members that were discovered in the basement of one of Andres's properties was

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that of Ilona, which was his first wife. Really? Yep. And the firearms used to kill family

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members were discovered in the ceilings of his residence, along with an acidic drain

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cleaner, which by the way, is no longer on the market in Belgium due to its maximum ability

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to eliminate residue. It was that strong. This drain cleaner was so strong, it could

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break down bodies. It could decompose them very quickly in that vat. That's pretty amazing

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that a product can do that. I know. Well, by October of 1997, Andres Pandy was arrested

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for the disappearance of both of his wives and his four children and stepchildren. Charges

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included premeditated murder and the rape of three of his daughters, which would have

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been Agnes and Tamiya, and I'm going to assume also Tunde. Although I could not find anything.

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I mean, I'm just doing the math here. So I couldn't really find anything on Andres seducing

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her, but we'll just add her to the mix since we know that those were all the girls in the

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family. On November 21st, 1997, just weeks later, Agnes was arrested and charged as an

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accomplice in the disappearance of her brothers and stepsisters. In addition to these charges,

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this was also linked to another crime regarding the disappearance of a 12 year old girl whose

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mother had dated Andres at some point. Wow. I know. So I could dig a little bit deeper

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into this. I'm sure it probably goes a lot further, but I mean, that was just one of

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the incidents that I had come across. You're finding a lot of information on this case.

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I know. I was quite surprised when I just started it. I had no idea folks that we would

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be looking at somebody who's so sinister. Yes. Well, Agnes and Andres both had their

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days in court. In March of 2002, Andres Pandy and Agnes were both placed on trial. And at

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the time, Andres was 74 and Agnes was 44. Andres was convicted on three counts of rape,

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attempted murder and six counts of murder. He eventually died of natural causes at the

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age of 86 while still in custody serving out his life sentence. Darn, I hate when that

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happens. I know. He lived a good long life, didn't he? Yes. He should have lived longer,

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so he suffered more. At the time of his death, police believe he could one day be connected

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to at least 60 missing persons, cold cases, either through his fostering or casual relationships

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from the ads that he placed in those newspapers to lure in his victims with a promise of marriage.

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What do you think of that? That's a lot to take in. It is. Like 60 missing people. I

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feel that is so tragic. It is really sad. And I mean, really, Agnes was living with

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this too for a long time. Yes. That surprised me to hear that that came into play. Yeah.

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I mean, good for her though that she came forward because I know she was living her

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own life in hell, right? I agree. Well, Agnes was convicted of being an accomplice and was

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sentenced to 21 years in prison. And she was released in 2010 where she now is living in

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a convent as a nun. Really? Yeah. I think that obviously this definitely impacted her

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life, but I mean, good for her that she came forward and did the right thing. And it's

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sad that she was pulled into this. It's sad that somebody had that much control over her,

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but in all actuality, I mean, I do give her, I wouldn't say praise. I'm not going to praise

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her for coming forward because of the actions that did take place. But I'm just glad that

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she had it in her to come forward and confess. For sure. I'm really glad too. And then got

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some cases solved and this was quite the case. You really shocked me with this report. You're

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a very good storyteller. You put everything together very well and professional because

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it is such a hard topic to give all the details like you did. Thanks, Beth. You're welcome.

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But yeah, well, thanks. So that's the story of Andres Pandy. Very good. What's your teachable

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moment for us today? Well, Beth, you had mentioned earlier how the police judged a book by its

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cover when Agnes first came forward. And for our listeners who don't really know what that

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means, it basically means that too many times people are judged by the way they look or

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the way they act. And Agnes Pandy was that book cover. Police judged her and even went

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so far as to say that she'd appeared mousy. I mean, that's an insult, but there is so

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much more substance to every one of us. And we just need to step away from stereotyping

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or judging people before we get to know them. Talk to someone at work that you don't normally

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talk to. Go eat lunch with somebody that you've known for years in the building, but you've

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never taken the time to get to know. And you might find something quite interesting about

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them, which will allow you to tuck away your biases, your first impressions, or initial

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perceptions. So that's it, Beth. That's my teachable moment. Don't judge the book by

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the cover. Get to know people. You will probably be pleasantly surprised with who you really

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meet. Amen to that. Anyways, okay. So that is a wrap. Don't do that. That's mine. Okay.

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That is a wrap. Did you say that's a wrap? And that's a wrap. That is a wrap. Thanks

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Bye.