Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted
to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals
and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the
content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, I'm Deb. And I'm Beth. And we want to welcome you to another episode
of Dying to be Found. Beth, we were talking with some of our fellow podcasters and they
made a really good point. And what would that be?
I am not sure that all of our listeners know that you and I are sisters.
That shocked me. I guess we just assumed. Yes, exactly. So I'm bringing up now. And
I thought that we'd give that a little mention because I wanted our new listeners to know
that we both grew up in Canada, but I now live in the United States and you're still
there. Yeah. And sometimes I'm sorry I didn't move
down with you guys. Sometimes I kick myself even today because I miss you guys. But I
decided to stay in Canada and now... Oh, I know. It's a long distance relationship.
Yeah. And we reconnected through podcasting and...
Thank goodness for technology. Yes.
And you're bringing my Canadian accent back because while I was at work today, I actually
said eh at the end of my sentence. It was so...
Did you? Did they say something? No, they always say something about my outs
and abouts, but they don't usually say anything about that because I don't say it too much.
I say it in a lot. Eh? All right. So yeah, we have a long distance
sisterhood and I will tell you, Beth, I don't know if I've told you this lately, but you
are one of my best friends and I'm so glad you're here with me.
I feel the same way. Thanks. I feel so loved.
Oh, you are loved. Well, if this is your first time joining us, be sure to check us out on
social media. We are on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Pinterest at Dine2BFound. You
can also learn more about us on our website at Dine2BFound spelled just like you see it
on our logo. So you can just go look up to see what Beth and I are up to. And do you
have anything else to add? No, no, I'm interested to see what you're
going to tell us. All right. So Beth, you recently took us to
Finland and now I wanted to take you to Belgium. Oh, interesting. That's such a beautiful country,
isn't it? It is. And I'll tell you, Belgium is one of
our top five countries for listeners. So I just wanted to show a little bit of love and
to cover a story from there. So here we go. All right.
I will say it's a little bit of a doozy. Today we're going to talk about Andres Pandy, who
was born in the Ukraine on June 1st, 1927. So we're going back a little ways. Andres
immigrated to Belgium in 1956 after becoming a refugee during a battle between Hungary
and the Soviet Union. So there was a little bit of a conflict. Andres fled his native
country and eventually started a Hungarian Protestant church for other Hungarian immigrants
in the Dutch or Flemish region of Belgium. Well, that sounds interesting.
Well, let me give you a little bit of a rundown on how Belgium is set up geographically as
far as language. The Northern region speaks Dutch primarily, and the Central and Southern
region speaks French, while the Far Eastern region of Belgium speaks German. Did you know
they had three languages there, Beth? I didn't.
I didn't either. So that's quite interesting. Well, Andres established himself in the Northern
region of Belgium where they speak Dutch, and he opened a church. He eventually met
and married his first wife, Ilona, and they had three children together. The oldest was
a girl whom they named Agnes, and she plays a big role in the story, Beth, which we will
get to, but Andres and Ilona's other two children were two boys named Daniel and Zoltan.
Now that's a cool name, Zoltan. Isn't it?
And I will also mention too that at this church, they set up an orphanage of sorts, so they
had a foster system. So he was doing good things, right? However, unlike the fairy tales
that were all told as children, things did not have a happy ending between Andres and
Ilona. Oh dear.
I know. Well, Ilona left with her two boys, leaving Agnes behind to stay with Andres.
So they lived in separate households, raised the children up separately. And in 1967, Andres
eventually moved on to remarry a woman named Edith Fintore, whom he had met through a personal
ad called, get this, The Lonely Hearts.
Hmm. Kind of reminds me of The Lonely Heart Club.
What is that?
I don't know, but doesn't that, doesn't that resonate with you?
It does.
Must have been a movie.
Yeah, it could be. To me, it's no different from online dating today. It's just got a
different name.
How did you and John meet?
Well, I've talked about this before. Yeah, we met online and I'm quite proud of it.
Yes. You made yourself a very, very good catch.
You got me there. All right. So Edith came into the relationship with three of her own
children whose names were Tunde, Tamiya, and Andrea. Andres and Ilona would eventually
have two more children together. So the couple had six children between them, which if you
included Agnes into the mix, she would have been the oldest. And so they had six kids.
That's a lot.
Definitely. They got to have their act together for sure. Oh, what is the name of that movie?
Like The Sound of Music.
Yes.
Andres took an immediate liking to Edith's daughter Tamiya, but not in a good way.
Uh oh.
He proceeded to seduce her under his own roof without Edith's knowledge and bathed by seduce,
I mean, he molested her.
That's terrible. I hate that.
I know. According to Agnes, Tamiya eventually became pregnant. And one thing I didn't mention
to you already was that Andres was in a sexual relationship with Agnes, his oldest daughter.
And this had been going on since she was 13 years old.
Oh my goodness. How old was Agnes and Edith when her children moved in?
You know, I'm not really sure because I couldn't really find much information on that. So I
will get into a little bit more details about Andres' relationships with Tamiya and Agnes.
But right now I really don't have that answer for you, Beth. I don't really know. I'm going
to assume she was in her teens. She was already in that relationship with her father when
she was 13. If I were to guess it'd be somewhere around the age of 15, 16, who knows? I think
it's important to mention that either out of jealousy or under the direction of her
father, Agnes attempted to bludgeon Tamiya to death and it was not successful.
Oh, I even hate the thoughts of that. I know. In 1984, after this incident, Tamiya fled
to Canada, then eventually made her way to Hungary. Well, she never ended up coming back
to Belgium ever. So out of curiosity, where do you think my story is going to go from
here? Well, I don't know.
Well, okay. Let me tell you. Around 1986, Andres Pandy, along with his daughter Agnes,
who was 38 years old at this time, set out on a killing spree. I didn't see that coming.
Yeah. They were very selective about their victims and they were not random by any means,
Beth. Andres chose family members. Oh God. I may imply that this was a group effort between
Andres and Agnes. In my opinion, he was the mastermind toward Agnes taking any part in
these killings, which I will get to in just a couple of minutes. Okay. So I'm going to
jump forward just a little bit, Beth, and talk about how Andres got caught. Okay. And
I only mention Andres because Agnes had gone to the police to report these murders of her
family members, which at the time, Beth, they did not take seriously at all. What? Yep.
The official police investigation on Andres Pandy took place around 1992 when pressure
from the government erupted from a local community. Now, let me just tell you, this blew my mind
just this morning when I was on my way to work. I started listening to this podcast
and it's called Le Monstre. I was into episode four when I could not believe what I heard
because the name that dropped, there was a pedophile that was on the loose back in the
1990s. Okay. So a string of kidnappings and murders were occurring throughout Belgium.
So it was a really high profile case. By 1997, this high profile case targeted a pedophile
murder case involving Mark Dutroux, which prompted public outcry to take action. So
I'm just going to tell you a little bit of what I learned. I could not believe I was
listening to this case because I knew we were about to record this session. Now that's a
coincidence. I know. Dutroux was originally convicted of abducting and raping five girls
back in 1989. He was arrested but was released on parole after serving only three years in
prison. That's disgusting. Yes, it is. And this went on for so many years, Beth. So if
you have an opportunity to go listen to that docu-series, it's called Le Monstre. Oh my
gosh. You will connect the dots beyond what I'm telling you about today. Oh, I'd love
to listen to it. And what episode was it? Do you remember? Well, it was episode four
when the name Mark Dutroux, which is D-U-T-R-O-U-X is how you spell his last name. But there
are so many circumstances leading up to his arrest. Okay. And this public outcry from
the community had just occurred and the government was feeling a ton of pressure to do something
about the crime sprees going across Belgium. Thinking about it, the timeline between Dutroux
committing his crimes and him serving time, then being released after three years, I would
say there was probably an eight year window of everything that had occurred with the girls
missing and the police investigating and Dutroux going to jail, going to prison. Belgium residents
had organized a major protest against the government to bring awareness of officials'
failure to investigate crimes, which ultimately led to Dutroux's release into society. The
demonstrators felt that the government had botched efforts to formulate a plan to reduce
crime, which they felt that the country was at risk for violent crimes. So they did not
feel the police were doing anything to keep them safe. And so public outcry really put
pressure on the police department at this point because at this time of the protest,
police officials had 60 open cases for missing persons, 60 cases. That's a lot. Absolutely.
And several of these cases included Ilona Pandy, Edith Pandy, Tunde and Andrea Fintore,
and Daniel and Zoltan Pandy. Any of these names ring a bell? That's Andreas' entire
family. Absolutely. Well, during their original investigations, police had a hard time identifying
suspects, although Andres was on the list and they simply let things fall through the
cracks. The missing persons cases of, I'm going to call them the Pandy family. So the
missing Pandy family case was put on the back burner. Oh dear. Yes. And as I had mentioned,
due to the public outcry, police did begin looking at their cold cases once again. And
after careful consideration, they chose one of these cases to address based on the evidence
that they had in the file. Guess which case that was? I hope it was the Pandy family.
It was. It was the case of Andres Pandy. Wow. That is fantastic. Isn't it? So the high profile
case of Mark Dutroux raised awareness and the police reopened the case. Wow. I know.
Well, back in 1992, Agnes Pandy, who was 38 years old at the time, had decided to go to
the police and accuse her father of trying to seduce her. And I had already mentioned
what that means. Then he wanted her to help him murder several of his family members.
Remember Agnes had stated that she was seduced since the age of 13 and now she's 38. What
a ruin of a life. I know. Somewhere along the way, Agnes did state that the relationship
she had with her father did become consensual. And I would say probably Beth because she
was under his control for so long. It's almost like that Stockholm syndrome. Oh, yes. Yeah.
So it could be very similar to Stockholm syndrome where you feel sympathy for your captor. And
I wouldn't say that she was captured at this point. But since she was in that relationship
for so long, you know that he had to have control over her. For sure. Now, the family
members that Agnes spoke to the police about were Pandy's first wife, his second wife,
his two stepdaughters, and his two sons. Now get this Beth, police initially ignored Agnes's
allegations against her father. Because of all things, they took Agnes's appearance
and demeanor into consideration. That's crazy. Well, how was her appearance and demeanor?
Well, in 1992, the police report described Agnes as mousy. And she simply blended into
society. What do you think of that? Talk about judging a book by its cover. No pun intended
because did I tell you what Agnes does for a living? No, you didn't. She was a librarian.
Okay, so yeah, part of the reason that police felt Agnes went unnoticed is because she worked
at the local library and was simply an average person like you and me. Nothing stood out
about her. That is so unusual that just because of the way she looked. I know. You're right.
Judging that book by the cover. Yeah. Now I will say during her initial report, she did
have a story to tell. Do tell. Agnes self reported and told police that when she was
13, her father had sent her out of town on holiday. I don't know where she went. I could
not find that information, but he sent her away for a little while. Okay. After returning
from holiday, Andres had told Agnes that her stepmother Edith plus her two stepsisters,
Tunde and Andrea, has simply disappeared. No further explanation given. They just took
off. That's crazy. How would anybody just disappear? You'd think there would be an
outcry, you know, there'd be people, neighbors, friends. Oh, yes, I would think so too. I
mean, but you do have to remember this was back in the 90s. Okay. You know, life was
so much different then before the new millennium. Yes, it was. At this point, Andres had turned
Agnes into his sex slave. And once again, because of her appearance and demeanor, police
did not feel there was enough evidence to pursue any allegations and sent Agnes on her
way. How would you feel if you finally mustered up enough courage to walk into a police station
and tell them a tale of what she had been experiencing practically her entire life and
the police just brush her off because she was mousy and she looked average? I think
I would lose it. Yeah, poor Agnes. Yes. All right. So let me mention that back in 1992,
the police did make an effort to investigate as well they should have, but more so likely
out of obligation due to the demonstrations going on at that time. Andres had told investigators
that his family had simply returned to Hungary. They took him at his word and never looked
into any further allegations against Andres. All right, pause. Let me just ask you, I'm
thinking with the fact that Andres was a preacher. Do you think maybe he was just simply convincing
to the police because of his livelihood? Yes, I do. I think people look to anybody in
clergy as somebody who's truthful, honest, and deeply committed to human beings and making
lives better. Oh yeah. Well, I will tell you this, the prosecutor at the time, let me see
if I can get my French right. Francois Moncier took Agnes at her word and continued to pursue
the case. So good for them. Yes. Yeah. Let me give you an example here. Agnes had even
gone to the newspaper to have an article written because the police didn't take action. Agnes
had proclaimed that her father had turned out to be one of the worst serial killers
in history. Yeah, it sounds like he is. Yeah. Well, guess what? Even with this article,
Agnes was not fully taken seriously by the media or once again, the police officials.
I mean, what does it take for poor Agnes to be taken seriously here? Well, I guess you
can kind of see the other side because if somebody just walks in and says, I've killed
or I've helped killed and naming big numbers, they would think, how could they have missed
it? How could this girl have been involved when she does look innocent? So I'm starting
to see what the police, how they are looking at her. Okay. Well, that's a good perspective.
I never thought of that as I'm looking at this research, I'm like, oh my gosh, poor
Agnes. Nobody's taken her seriously, but I suppose you're right to have somebody just
walk in. What is this? April Fools? Are you being serious right now? Yeah, exactly. So
regardless of the police perceptions, Agnes continued to be relentless with her allegations
against her father. And she had later testified that Andres had raped her beginning at the
age of 13, like I had mentioned, and then he did turn her into his sex slave for the
next several decades. But I mean, Beth, she was 13 and at that age, you're still quite
impressionable. You're going to believe those people closest to you, especially if it's
a parent. Those relationships are built on trust. And this is the time when kids turn
into adolescents. And I know there's that huge hormonal change, but there is nothing
normal about having a relationship with your father. No, there isn't, not at all. But you
did say she's impressionable at that age. And I think maybe you look up to your father
as somebody with authority and somebody who's always right. Oh, yes. Well, let me talk a
little bit about Agnes's accounts in this situation. She later stated that she and Andres
held an incestual relationship that began early in life and it allegedly continued into
her 40s. Wow, that's a long time. I know. So let's backtrack to when Agnes stated that
she had attempted to murder her stepsister, Tamiya. According to her statement, Andres
had ordered Agnes to complete his dirty work and to kill Tamiya. Remember now, Tamiya had
said that she was pregnant and authorities do believe that Agnes was either under duress
when these events occurred because she was more than likely under Andres control or she
was just simply jealous. Agnes admitted later that her compliance to her father's demands
were based on jealousy and duress. Now remember, she was under his influence since she was
13, but Beth, when she self-reported, she was in her 40s when she came to authorities.
Okay. I'm going to say that based on the ease of Agnes's confession, she clearly had a guilty
conscience and couldn't live with herself. What do you think of that? That's exactly,
exactly my thoughts. You know, you get to be alone some evenings and you're ironing,
for instance. And like me, when I have those times, I ruminate about my past. And that's
probably what happened to her, you know, thoughts start, you know, at 40 years old is when you
start feeling all these, why did I do that? And so regrets. Yes. I don't live my life
with regrets, Beth. I just chalk it up as experience, lessons learned. And I really,
everything is a learning experience, you know, it just makes you stronger. It makes you who
you are and it guides you into your future. Yeah. Yeah. Well, her accounts to the police
were rather gruesome. Trigger warning. There's going to be a little bit of graphic descriptions
here. So just a little bit of a trigger warning. Agnes had described her father as being a
bully and authoritarian in addition to a sexual predator who preyed on vulnerable women and
foster children. And remember, I had told you that Andres had started that church and
he had a foster system there. Andres and Agnes would place the bodies of their victims into
vats of drain cleaner to decompose their bodies or they would dismember them, then dump the
remains at a local abattoir, also known as a local meat processing plant or a rendering
plant, Beth, if you remember the case of Robert Picton that we had talked about. Right. Yeah.
This is where, don't forget, this is where your makeup comes from and your toiletries
and your baking supplies. Don't tell me that kind of stuff. I'm always telling Al, don't
tell me what's in hot dogs. I don't want to hear because I like them so much. Okay. So
Agnes was placed in charge of removing the organs from her family members before they
placed the bodies in these acid vats. And from my understanding, they dumped body parts
at the meat plants. I don't get that. Jumping Johesifats. That is gross removing organs
from the family members. What the heck is jumping Johesifats? What? What did you say?
Jumping Johesifats. Now I can't say it. You never heard of that? I've never heard that.
What is that? It's like an OMG. Or Holy Moly. Exactly. Agnes is Holy Moly a lot, but I'm
wondering if this might be an East Coast thing that I picked up when I lived out East. It
could be. How about Good Golly? Oh yes. Dad used to say that all the time. Yeah. So I
don't understand how they would just be able to dismember bodies and go take them to the
local plant and just dump them there. Was it outdoors? Did they just, you know, how
some people will drop off a bag of, I don't know, old clothes and just leave it outside
of goodwill or whatever? What did they do? I don't understand that concept. I don't
either. Either that or the people in the abattoir were in on it. Mmm. Never thought of that.
But they probably didn't. Just probably leaving it there. Yeah. I'm sure they were very sneaky.
Agnes had described in full detail how she and Andres shot or bludgeoned their family
members to death, then cut them into pieces, placed them into bags, then sent some of them
to the abattoir while placing others in the vat of cleaning fluid. Now police finally
took Agnes seriously and went to her home with search warrants and again questioned
Andres. The original account that Andres had given the police when Agnes first reported
these murders was that his first wife, Ilona, and his boys had moved to either France or
South America. He also stated that Edith and her girls had moved away to Germany. So with
very little explanation beyond this, police seemed satisfied with these explanations and
just moved on. Case closed. Right then and there? Yeah. They were like, okay, well, he
sounds believable. He's a preacher. He's a pastor in the area. He's got a good explanation
as to where his first and second wife and all the kids left and all the kids went. So
all right, case closed. Let's move on to case number 59. Well, it seems that when Andres
was first questioned, he did become a little spooked, Beth, because during this time period,
he took the time to cover his tracks by hiring actors to pose as family members. Geez. Yeah.
Guess where he got them from? Now, let me remind you, Andres was a preacher at the local
church who worked actively with fostering in the community. Andres took several of the
foster children from his church and had them pose in pictures in order to paint the story
that his family was alive and well. What do you think of that? That is, that's a laughable
act. Hiring actors for goodness sakes. This is just so wrong on all levels. It's crazy.
I don't even know how a human being even starts to think of doing something like this. That's
quite methodical. Yes. Yes, it is. If you're thinking about the fact that somebody is now
putting in an action plan into place to cover his tracks, that's very methodical. Agnes
confessed that she was solely responsible for her mother, Ilona's death, but was an
accomplice to the rest of the murders, including her brothers, Daniel and Zoltan and her stepsisters,
Tunde and Andrea. So let me ask you based on Agnes's account, is it reasonable to say
that authorities should go ahead and arrest Andres at this point? I mean, I'm going to
say this is at least the second or third time that that Agnes had gone to the police. No
idea. Well, authorities decided that by all accounts, Agnes had a very interesting tale
to tell. But once again, there was not sufficient enough evidence to pursue this case likely
based on those pictures that Andres produced. Get out of here. That is just ridiculous.
I know. And prosecutors definitely felt though, that there was enough evidence to indict Andres,
but of course they still had the burden of proving their case. That's true. I've talked
to a police officer here about a case that is high profile and they've never solved it.
And I did ask, I says, you know, why can't you guys catch this, this killer? Lack of
evidence, lack of evidence. Wow. They, I mean, they really have to have their ducks in a
row with that for sure. Cause they don't want to come back and have somebody sue them for
false arrest. That's right. I have the impression that the authorities know who the perpetrator
was, but it's all the lack of evidence. Yeah. And plus they probably don't want to, you
know, we talk about keeping things close to the chest. You can't give away a ton of information
or else it can blow the case. Well, authorities later stated that they initially believed
that Tamiya's pregnancy had sparked the Pandies crime spree. And they also believe that Tamiya's
pregnancy may have been what set Andres off in the first place to begin that killing spree.
Why would that be? I don't know. I don't know. Maybe because he was afraid she was going
to open her mouth. Okay. And spill the beans, you know, because if he was already in that
incestuous relationship with Agnes and he moved on to Tamiya. I mean, when you got too
many people that know what's really going on, somebody is going to open up. Yes. And
upon Agnes's accounts and confession, police did obtain a search warrant and discovered
the following on several abandoned properties known to be owned by Andres Pandy, which some
of the findings, Beth, were very horrifying. I'm sure. In the basement of one of Andres's
homes, police found blood splatter on the walls, ashes containing bone fragments, teeth,
kneecaps and an unidentified meat in the freezer. Geez. That is just crazy. Yeah. Agnes confirmed
that her direct family member and step family members all met the same fate after she and
her father had used kitchen knives and axes to break down the corpses. Wow. One of the
family members that were discovered in the basement of one of Andres's properties was
that of Ilona, which was his first wife. Really? Yep. And the firearms used to kill family
members were discovered in the ceilings of his residence, along with an acidic drain
cleaner, which by the way, is no longer on the market in Belgium due to its maximum ability
to eliminate residue. It was that strong. This drain cleaner was so strong, it could
break down bodies. It could decompose them very quickly in that vat. That's pretty amazing
that a product can do that. I know. Well, by October of 1997, Andres Pandy was arrested
for the disappearance of both of his wives and his four children and stepchildren. Charges
included premeditated murder and the rape of three of his daughters, which would have
been Agnes and Tamiya, and I'm going to assume also Tunde. Although I could not find anything.
I mean, I'm just doing the math here. So I couldn't really find anything on Andres seducing
her, but we'll just add her to the mix since we know that those were all the girls in the
family. On November 21st, 1997, just weeks later, Agnes was arrested and charged as an
accomplice in the disappearance of her brothers and stepsisters. In addition to these charges,
this was also linked to another crime regarding the disappearance of a 12 year old girl whose
mother had dated Andres at some point. Wow. I know. So I could dig a little bit deeper
into this. I'm sure it probably goes a lot further, but I mean, that was just one of
the incidents that I had come across. You're finding a lot of information on this case.
I know. I was quite surprised when I just started it. I had no idea folks that we would
be looking at somebody who's so sinister. Yes. Well, Agnes and Andres both had their
days in court. In March of 2002, Andres Pandy and Agnes were both placed on trial. And at
the time, Andres was 74 and Agnes was 44. Andres was convicted on three counts of rape,
attempted murder and six counts of murder. He eventually died of natural causes at the
age of 86 while still in custody serving out his life sentence. Darn, I hate when that
happens. I know. He lived a good long life, didn't he? Yes. He should have lived longer,
so he suffered more. At the time of his death, police believe he could one day be connected
to at least 60 missing persons, cold cases, either through his fostering or casual relationships
from the ads that he placed in those newspapers to lure in his victims with a promise of marriage.
What do you think of that? That's a lot to take in. It is. Like 60 missing people. I
feel that is so tragic. It is really sad. And I mean, really, Agnes was living with
this too for a long time. Yes. That surprised me to hear that that came into play. Yeah.
I mean, good for her though that she came forward because I know she was living her
own life in hell, right? I agree. Well, Agnes was convicted of being an accomplice and was
sentenced to 21 years in prison. And she was released in 2010 where she now is living in
a convent as a nun. Really? Yeah. I think that obviously this definitely impacted her
life, but I mean, good for her that she came forward and did the right thing. And it's
sad that she was pulled into this. It's sad that somebody had that much control over her,
but in all actuality, I mean, I do give her, I wouldn't say praise. I'm not going to praise
her for coming forward because of the actions that did take place. But I'm just glad that
she had it in her to come forward and confess. For sure. I'm really glad too. And then got
some cases solved and this was quite the case. You really shocked me with this report. You're
a very good storyteller. You put everything together very well and professional because
it is such a hard topic to give all the details like you did. Thanks, Beth. You're welcome.
But yeah, well, thanks. So that's the story of Andres Pandy. Very good. What's your teachable
moment for us today? Well, Beth, you had mentioned earlier how the police judged a book by its
cover when Agnes first came forward. And for our listeners who don't really know what that
means, it basically means that too many times people are judged by the way they look or
the way they act. And Agnes Pandy was that book cover. Police judged her and even went
so far as to say that she'd appeared mousy. I mean, that's an insult, but there is so
much more substance to every one of us. And we just need to step away from stereotyping
or judging people before we get to know them. Talk to someone at work that you don't normally
talk to. Go eat lunch with somebody that you've known for years in the building, but you've
never taken the time to get to know. And you might find something quite interesting about
them, which will allow you to tuck away your biases, your first impressions, or initial
perceptions. So that's it, Beth. That's my teachable moment. Don't judge the book by
the cover. Get to know people. You will probably be pleasantly surprised with who you really
meet. Amen to that. Anyways, okay. So that is a wrap. Don't do that. That's mine. Okay.
That is a wrap. Did you say that's a wrap? And that's a wrap. That is a wrap. Thanks
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