1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,040 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 2 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:12,340 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 3 00:00:12,340 --> 00:00:18,560 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. 4 00:00:18,560 --> 00:00:21,240 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 5 00:00:23,760 --> 00:00:24,540 Are you there? 6 00:00:24,540 --> 00:00:25,300 I am here. 7 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:27,600 Somehow I can't even see you now. 8 00:00:27,600 --> 00:00:31,600 Well, no, you wouldn't be able to see me because I told you I'm reserving the camera. 9 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:34,200 You know me, I'm always going to do something different. 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:36,900 Always because I'm that wild child. 11 00:00:36,900 --> 00:00:38,460 Why do you think it's my hair though? 12 00:00:38,460 --> 00:00:39,660 It's intuition. 13 00:00:39,660 --> 00:00:40,260 Okay. 14 00:00:40,260 --> 00:00:41,000 Are you ready? 15 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:42,040 I don't think so. 16 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:43,060 Not for this. 17 00:00:43,060 --> 00:00:45,560 I have a feeling I'm going to be scared shitless. 18 00:00:45,560 --> 00:00:48,960 You either went with extensions or you went red. 19 00:00:48,960 --> 00:00:50,840 Oh dear Lord. 20 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:52,400 My eyes are closed. 21 00:00:52,400 --> 00:00:53,040 Okay. 22 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:59,040 Reveal. 23 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:01,960 You scared me. 24 00:01:01,960 --> 00:01:11,160 No, the reason I did this is because I'm going to work on Monday dressed as a book character and I'm going to be the Mad Hatter. 25 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:12,600 Oh my gosh. 26 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:14,640 Oh, you've got that hat, don't you? 27 00:01:14,640 --> 00:01:16,240 I do. 28 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:20,640 So God almighty, let me take this scarf off. 29 00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:26,240 I have been sweating for two hours waiting for the finale here. 30 00:01:26,240 --> 00:01:28,440 Holy crap. 31 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:30,040 Well, here it is. 32 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:38,840 We took an hour folks to get everything ready and then I jumped backwards when Deb revealed the camera. 33 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:40,040 Did you see me jump? 34 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:41,340 No, honey bunny. 35 00:01:41,340 --> 00:01:43,040 I don't have a picture of you. 36 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:44,340 Oh, that's right. 37 00:01:44,340 --> 00:01:49,040 Why do you think I have been hinting for the last hour that I really needed your camera? 38 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:51,440 But audio was plenty. 39 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:53,240 I really was scared. 40 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:53,640 Really? 41 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:54,640 Why? 42 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,640 Because I really thought you went red with extensions. 43 00:01:57,640 --> 00:01:58,040 Okay. 44 00:01:58,040 --> 00:01:59,740 Well guess what I'm about to do? 45 00:01:59,740 --> 00:02:00,040 What? 46 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,640 I shared my weekly reel on Instagram. 47 00:02:02,640 --> 00:02:12,340 Everybody go check us out at Dying to be Found because I have had all day to figure out how I was going to prank you because I haven't had a chance to do that in a while. 48 00:02:12,340 --> 00:02:13,140 But I guess what? 49 00:02:13,140 --> 00:02:16,640 I figured I'm going to do it with my reels. 50 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:22,540 Alrighty then, so welcome to our little podcast Dying to be Found everyone. 51 00:02:22,540 --> 00:02:24,340 We're so glad you're here. 52 00:02:24,340 --> 00:02:25,440 I'm Deb. 53 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:26,640 And I'm Beth. 54 00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:37,440 And I'm not even going to say what episode we're on because Beth, I was waiting to see what your reaction was on our recording today to see if I was going to bump it up and it looks like I'm going to. 55 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:45,240 But secondly, things are really creeping up on me on my calendar and regardless, we're excited that you are here for another episode. 56 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:48,940 It looks like Beth is going to take the wheel on this one. 57 00:02:48,940 --> 00:02:51,040 Tell us what you have for us today. 58 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,040 Well Deb, like you said, it's my turn to take you on a trip. 59 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:55,940 Good. 60 00:02:55,940 --> 00:03:01,840 So today we're going to go far away to the world's most northern region. 61 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:02,640 Any guesses? 62 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:08,640 Okay, so you're going to throw me under the bus just like that because you're testing my geography. 63 00:03:08,640 --> 00:03:10,940 Of course not. 64 00:03:10,940 --> 00:03:22,940 All right, I feel like I've been really looking at our heat map lately, Beth, because we have a lot of listeners way up north and I saw that we have someone up there in Victoria Island in Canada. 65 00:03:22,940 --> 00:03:24,240 Hi, Victoria Island. 66 00:03:24,240 --> 00:03:26,240 Thank you for listening. 67 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:27,440 Absolutely. 68 00:03:27,440 --> 00:03:32,440 And so that is isn't that way up in the Canadian territories? 69 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,740 The yeah, the Canadian territories. 70 00:03:34,740 --> 00:03:36,240 Am I right? 71 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,940 Wrong. 72 00:03:38,940 --> 00:03:40,640 I need to get one of those buzzers. 73 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:41,540 I'm going to get one. 74 00:03:41,540 --> 00:03:45,240 No, I can go find a sound online. 75 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:46,040 Okay. 76 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:50,140 Today we're going to talk about an unsolved murder case in Finland. 77 00:03:50,140 --> 00:04:02,840 And before I go any further, let me tell you how excited I was to learn that the official hometown of Santa Claus resides in the most northern region called Lapland. 78 00:04:02,840 --> 00:04:06,340 Oh my gosh, I was so excited. 79 00:04:06,340 --> 00:04:14,940 There is actually a town that has Santa Claus Village, which is open 365 days of the year. 80 00:04:14,940 --> 00:04:25,240 Oh, now I will tell you in Stone Mountain, Georgia, they have a little village and it's not like you're describing, but they have a Christmas store that's open year round. 81 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,940 I don't know if it's still there, but that's so cool. 82 00:04:27,940 --> 00:04:34,840 I was on Stone Mountain 10 years ago at Christmas time and there was a little village with lights on and everything. 83 00:04:34,840 --> 00:04:36,140 I was there. 84 00:04:36,140 --> 00:04:38,140 Yeah, that's where we went. 85 00:04:38,140 --> 00:04:41,040 I was just at Stone Mountain, gosh, this summer. 86 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:41,840 Nice. 87 00:04:41,840 --> 00:04:43,340 It's changed a little bit. 88 00:04:43,340 --> 00:04:43,840 Did it? 89 00:04:43,840 --> 00:04:45,040 Is there more stores open? 90 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,340 No, it did commercialize quite a bit. 91 00:04:47,340 --> 00:04:49,240 It's no longer like a state park. 92 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:50,540 They've commercialized it. 93 00:04:50,540 --> 00:04:52,940 So to me, it's just not what it used to be. 94 00:04:52,940 --> 00:04:59,140 Oh, anyway, so yeah, if you guys are going to visit Georgia, come on down and visit Stone Mountain. 95 00:04:59,140 --> 00:05:00,540 It's kind of cool. 96 00:05:00,540 --> 00:05:01,340 Yeah. 97 00:05:01,340 --> 00:05:09,740 Well, our regular listeners will know by now how much I love Christmas. I have 70 Christmas cards, handmade 70. 98 00:05:09,740 --> 00:05:12,040 Snap, crackle and pop 70. 99 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:17,340 I'm feeling bad about the cards that I'm probably going to, I have any, let's just put it this way. 100 00:05:17,340 --> 00:05:18,640 I'm not recycling them. 101 00:05:18,640 --> 00:05:20,140 I've just never used them. 102 00:05:20,140 --> 00:05:24,840 You might see the same one again because I don't know which one I sent you five years ago, Beth. 103 00:05:24,840 --> 00:05:26,640 Well, I don't know which one you didn't either. 104 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,440 So it'll all be new to me. 105 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:29,240 What are you saying? 106 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:31,140 You throw them away every year? 107 00:05:31,140 --> 00:05:33,940 I have so many of them. 108 00:05:33,940 --> 00:05:36,240 I'm just kidding. 109 00:05:36,240 --> 00:05:42,940 I was just over to the US border doing some Christmas shopping. 110 00:05:42,940 --> 00:05:47,940 Beth, I think you need some wine every time we do this. 111 00:05:47,940 --> 00:05:58,240 No, it's because I, well, yes, that may be that, but I'm excited about Christmas and about you're being all dressed up for Halloween. 112 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,240 Do you love it? 113 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:00,140 Yes. 114 00:06:00,140 --> 00:06:01,140 That is so funny. 115 00:06:01,140 --> 00:06:05,340 It's supposed to be the mad hat or but it's two hours worth of makeup all day. 116 00:06:05,340 --> 00:06:07,240 This one used to be like white. 117 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,940 Oh, now it's just pasty because the lipstick. 118 00:06:10,940 --> 00:06:13,440 I have to sip wine through a straw today. 119 00:06:13,440 --> 00:06:14,440 Cheers. 120 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:21,040 Clink. 121 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,040 You better put in a clink in that. 122 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,240 Okay, I will. 123 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:33,640 So I love Christmas and it's my time to gift my friends and my family with handmade Christmas cards. 124 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:41,540 And this year I'm doing more calendars, but for my coworkers, I have approximately 25 of them. 125 00:06:41,540 --> 00:06:45,240 And Deb showing me hers. 126 00:06:45,240 --> 00:06:46,140 I still have it. 127 00:06:46,140 --> 00:06:48,240 You don't think I throw these away, right? 128 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:53,840 Well, I think what I'm going to do this year is I this is this is horrendous. 129 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:58,640 I bought some mini tear off calendars. 130 00:06:58,640 --> 00:07:01,240 They were on sale 10 for $2. 131 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:02,240 Wow. 132 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,340 And I had to get them in the States. 133 00:07:04,340 --> 00:07:07,140 So I bought four packages because it's a good deal. 134 00:07:07,140 --> 00:07:10,540 I'm just going to give you one of the calendars and you can reglue it on. 135 00:07:10,540 --> 00:07:11,640 Absolutely. 136 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:12,840 These were so cheap. 137 00:07:12,840 --> 00:07:23,040 Then it was $19 in shipping plus the American exchange and these $2 calendars worth $10 cost me $43. 138 00:07:23,040 --> 00:07:24,540 I won't be doing that again. 139 00:07:24,540 --> 00:07:30,740 But at Christmas time, our regular listeners will know by now how much I love Christmas. 140 00:07:30,740 --> 00:07:32,340 Yes, you do. 141 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:40,040 It's my time to gift my friends and family with handmade Christmas cards and calendars plus my baking. 142 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,140 Oh my gosh, Beth. 143 00:07:41,140 --> 00:07:43,640 I love your baking. 144 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,040 Beth is a fine baker. 145 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:57,640 In one year, she even put together a homemade family recipe book that was made from a brown paper bag of all things, which I still have by the way, Beth. 146 00:07:57,640 --> 00:07:58,240 You know what? 147 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,440 That means a lot to me that you still have it. 148 00:08:00,440 --> 00:08:02,040 Oh, okay. 149 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:07,240 So in the meantime, Beth, I love that you have the spirit of Christmas. 150 00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:08,240 Thanks. 151 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:10,940 So today we're going to talk about Finland. 152 00:08:10,940 --> 00:08:19,440 It is a country with four regions, the Lapland, Lakeland, Coast and Archipelago and Helsinki region. 153 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:28,840 Finland has the world's cleanest air, visible northern lights year round and in the northern Lapland region, it has eight seasons a year. 154 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:30,240 Imagine that. 155 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,240 What? 156 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,140 What do you mean eight seasons? 157 00:08:33,140 --> 00:08:36,440 Well, they just rotate their seasons a little quicker than we do. 158 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:37,240 Okay. 159 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:43,940 So what they have spring, summer, fall, winter, spring, summer, fall, winter in the time period that we do? 160 00:08:43,940 --> 00:08:44,440 Yes. 161 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,440 Wow, that sounds fascinating. 162 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:48,340 It's interesting. 163 00:08:48,340 --> 00:08:49,640 It's a little different. 164 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:51,740 I was very surprised when I read that. 165 00:08:51,740 --> 00:08:53,640 But so I thought I'd throw that tidbit in. 166 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:59,040 Yeah, we appreciate that because I always love to learn new things. 167 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:03,940 Especially since Santa Claus lives up there today. 168 00:09:03,940 --> 00:09:04,940 Absolutely. 169 00:09:04,940 --> 00:09:06,040 Hi, Santa. 170 00:09:06,040 --> 00:09:07,540 Don't listen to this episode. 171 00:09:07,540 --> 00:09:09,440 I'm sure it's about to get worse. 172 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:10,440 It is. 173 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:17,840 Today's story comes from the Helsinki region, which is a central part of Finland and in a town close to Helsinki called Espoo. 174 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:24,240 This unsolved mystery was so sensational, it became common knowledge among residents of Finland. 175 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:30,140 Statistically, Finland is considered a safe country compared to so many others. 176 00:09:30,140 --> 00:09:34,040 And I'd like to give our listeners an example of just how safe it is. 177 00:09:34,040 --> 00:09:43,540 Not to pick on Americans, but I will be comparing Finland and the United States as the United States is well known to you around the world. 178 00:09:43,540 --> 00:09:48,440 I know the states are a melting pot of crime, so no offense taken. 179 00:09:48,440 --> 00:09:50,640 Good. I didn't want you to think I'm picking. 180 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:53,240 No, not at all. 181 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:59,740 So the murder rate in Finland is two to five murders in the United States. 182 00:09:59,740 --> 00:10:10,940 And the number of police officers in Finland are 157 versus 243 in the United States. 183 00:10:10,940 --> 00:10:13,140 54% more than Finland. 184 00:10:13,140 --> 00:10:14,140 Okay. 185 00:10:14,140 --> 00:10:22,840 So I'm going to talk a little bit in the statistics about violent crimes because what I'm going to describe today is a violent crime. 186 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:23,640 Okay. 187 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:33,040 So in Finland, I have 1.64 violent crimes to 4.7 crimes in the United States. 188 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,640 So you can see there that there's quite a number fluctuation. 189 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:38,640 Is that like shoplifting or violent? 190 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:40,740 Like when you say violent? 191 00:10:40,740 --> 00:10:42,640 Intentional homicide. 192 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:43,640 Oh, okay. 193 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:44,540 I got you. 194 00:10:44,540 --> 00:10:55,340 For the murder rate, there's 118 murders in Finland to the United States, 12,996 murders. 195 00:10:55,340 --> 00:10:57,640 Snap, crackle, and pop. 196 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:58,740 Wow. 197 00:10:58,740 --> 00:11:05,340 Murder rate in Finland is 22 and in the United States, it's 42.1. 198 00:11:05,340 --> 00:11:07,340 Wow. So that's almost doubled. 199 00:11:07,340 --> 00:11:11,040 Yeah, it says actually 91% more than Finland. 200 00:11:11,040 --> 00:11:14,840 Now, please don't think that this United States is full of crime. 201 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:15,940 It's not. 202 00:11:15,940 --> 00:11:20,840 It's a heavily populated country, which is reflected in these statistics. 203 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:24,440 So with more people, you're going to find more crime. 204 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,940 Yeah, like rats in a big city. 205 00:11:27,940 --> 00:11:28,740 Yes. 206 00:11:28,740 --> 00:11:33,140 Oh, I mean based on news reports that I see every day, that's all I see. 207 00:11:33,140 --> 00:11:35,140 So I believe you. 208 00:11:35,140 --> 00:11:36,340 Well, here we go. 209 00:11:36,340 --> 00:11:42,840 It's the night of June 4th, 1960, a group of teenagers decided to go for a hike. 210 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:50,440 This group of friends included Seppo and Tiro Boisman, age 18, and his girlfriend Anya 211 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,340 Tolukimaki, age 15. 212 00:11:53,340 --> 00:12:00,640 Along for the trek were 18-year-old Niles Gustafen and his girlfriend, 15-year-old Malaya 213 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:02,340 Ermele Borkland. 214 00:12:02,340 --> 00:12:08,340 So there were two guys and two girls out hiking that night who went to one of the hundreds 215 00:12:08,340 --> 00:12:11,440 of trails that Helsinki region had to offer them. 216 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:17,040 It's important to note that the group made their way up into the trails by motorbike, 217 00:12:17,040 --> 00:12:18,640 which will come into play later. 218 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:23,740 But once they arrived at their location, the group walked along Lake Bodom in Espoo, not 219 00:12:23,740 --> 00:12:25,640 far from the city of Helsinki. 220 00:12:25,640 --> 00:12:31,540 This adventure was a hike like so many others where they pitched a tent, ate, drank, and 221 00:12:31,540 --> 00:12:32,540 told stories. 222 00:12:32,540 --> 00:12:34,040 I mean, that sounds delightful. 223 00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:38,640 I know you love to go camping and that sounds right up my alley because when I was their 224 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,240 age, Beth, I did a lot of that. 225 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:44,040 I enjoyed the outdoor life. 226 00:12:44,040 --> 00:12:45,040 I did too. 227 00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:49,640 But unless there's Bigfoot and I know we've talked about Bigfoot already. 228 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:51,940 Yes, but they're nurturing. 229 00:12:51,940 --> 00:12:55,840 So you don't have anything to worry about. 230 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:01,240 I mean, not according to our episode on Teresa Bear, but go on. 231 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:06,240 Everyone was enjoying the natural outdoors plus the peaceful tranquility of the hiking 232 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:07,240 trails. 233 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:12,640 Around 1030 that night, everyone settled in for the night and went to bed. 234 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:17,520 Around 11 a.m. the next morning, a couple of hikers came upon the grisly scene. 235 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:24,440 They had stumbled upon three murdered teenagers with a tremendous amount of blood in and around 236 00:13:24,440 --> 00:13:25,440 the scene. 237 00:13:25,440 --> 00:13:27,640 I mean, it's tremendous. 238 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,000 It's horrifying when you look at the photo. 239 00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,880 That tent is just full of blood. 240 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:34,280 Did you see the photos? 241 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:35,280 No. 242 00:13:35,280 --> 00:13:36,280 Mm-mm. 243 00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:41,400 Sipo and his girlfriend Anya were both inside the tent. 244 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:46,800 Niles and his girlfriend Armela were lying on top of the tent and police speculated that 245 00:13:46,800 --> 00:13:48,920 they had tried to escape. 246 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:54,200 All teenagers had died except for Niles, but he was barely conscious. 247 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,720 Apparently he suffered bruises, a broken jaw and a concussion. 248 00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:02,000 And he played dead because if you were in this situation, I know that's what you're 249 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:03,680 told that you should do. 250 00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:06,160 Yes, that's smart. 251 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:11,440 Well the photo of the tent showing the crime scene that I saw was covered in a lot of blood 252 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:17,120 and the police believe the attack occurred between 4 and 6 a.m. on the morning of June 253 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:18,120 5th. 254 00:14:18,120 --> 00:14:24,240 The tent was ripped and had slashes from a sharp object streaked across the tent and 255 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:29,560 three of the deaths from this group of teenagers were allegedly caused by numerous stab wounds 256 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,840 caused from outside the tent. 257 00:14:31,840 --> 00:14:37,600 Wait, did someone creep up on everyone while they were inside the tent or? 258 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:43,000 Yes, that's what they were guessing because there was something blunt. 259 00:14:43,000 --> 00:14:45,520 They felt because they were bludgeoned to death. 260 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:47,920 So they began slashing from the outside. 261 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:48,920 Yes. 262 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:52,160 They didn't run into the tent where they were first attacked. 263 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,400 I mean, you know how people run away? 264 00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,440 No, because they were sleeping. 265 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:57,920 Oh no. 266 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:00,440 Yes, they were sound asleep. 267 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:02,040 Oh gosh. 268 00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:07,200 They were bludgeoned to death in the very early hours of June 5th. 269 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:11,680 Once the police arrived, they began looking around and noted that money and clothing were 270 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:12,680 missing. 271 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:15,240 I mean, how would they know that money was missing? 272 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:21,280 Probably because they looked through everything and saw that they had no money and who didn't 273 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,720 carry some cash back in those days. 274 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:24,720 Got you. 275 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:30,840 I went into a hardware store and I kind of got scolded by the cashier because I was paying 276 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:33,680 something that was under $5 with debit. 277 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:35,960 And I said to her, well, I don't carry cash anymore. 278 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:37,720 You got scolded. 279 00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:38,720 That's rude. 280 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:39,720 I know it is. 281 00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,200 Do you carry cash now? 282 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,680 No, I don't think I ever carry cash. 283 00:15:43,680 --> 00:15:44,680 It's very rare. 284 00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:47,560 I mean, I probably do from time to time. 285 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:52,680 Pre-COVID, I had money put in envelopes and I would write everything on it, what it was 286 00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:54,960 for, and I would pay cash. 287 00:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,680 But now I realize I actually spend less money using my debit card because I can track it. 288 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:01,680 I do too. 289 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:04,520 And that's why I don't carry cash and I haven't carried it for years. 290 00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:11,300 I mean, like I said, I do carry cash when it's necessary, but very rarely, but interesting. 291 00:16:11,300 --> 00:16:12,760 So they had money missing. 292 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:13,760 Yeah. 293 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,760 They did have money missing and the most curious items such as the keys to the victim's motor 294 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:22,600 bikes were gone when the motor bikes were still left behind. 295 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,920 Niles's shoes were found buried a long way from the tent. 296 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:30,080 Again, different reports had different distances mentioned. 297 00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:34,000 One said 500 meters, one said three miles. 298 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:35,160 Wow. 299 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:36,160 I know. 300 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:43,040 So when you're reading all these different reports, it's hard to put everything down 301 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,320 is this is definite. 302 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,880 Yeah, that makes sense. 303 00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:50,320 So a long ways away works. 304 00:16:50,320 --> 00:16:55,000 The knife and the unidentified blunt item that were used through the tent, it was never 305 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:56,000 found. 306 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,080 So the question here is what the heck happened? 307 00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:00,080 Yeah. 308 00:17:00,080 --> 00:17:01,760 I mean, what did happen? 309 00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:06,400 This reminds me a little bit of the Dyatlov Pass incident. 310 00:17:06,400 --> 00:17:08,800 Have you heard of that? 311 00:17:08,800 --> 00:17:10,680 No, please do say. 312 00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,800 I'm not going to because I'm going to ask you to follow up on that one day and you're 313 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:19,320 going to tell us all about it because it's going to be right up your alley. 314 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:20,320 Is it? 315 00:17:20,320 --> 00:17:21,320 It sure is. 316 00:17:21,320 --> 00:17:26,520 You personally, this is going to be your genre for sure. 317 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:27,520 Okay. 318 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:32,440 Police called in the military to help with this case to little avail and to the detriment 319 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:34,120 of the investigation. 320 00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:39,920 Police did not rope off the crime scene like they do nowadays, nor did they even document 321 00:17:39,920 --> 00:17:41,680 the details of the scene. 322 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:42,680 That's odd. 323 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:43,880 I know. 324 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:48,320 Can you believe that a mob of police were allowed to trample the entire crime scene 325 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:50,760 and they even disturbed all the evidence? 326 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,960 What year did this happen? 327 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:53,960 1960. 328 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:55,760 You still think they would know. 329 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:01,880 Yeah, but it doesn't seem that the standards of securing crime areas were the same as they 330 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:02,880 are today. 331 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:07,600 I'm going back to that case that we had with the two girls that went missing, the Elvis 332 00:18:07,600 --> 00:18:08,600 fans. 333 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:13,360 Well, the police even brought in soldiers to search the lake for the missing objects 334 00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:16,080 and weapons and none were found. 335 00:18:16,080 --> 00:18:21,240 Autopsies of the victims later showed that Armelli received the worst of the attack. 336 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:28,040 She received most stab wounds and blunt force trauma and was even stabbed multiple times 337 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,720 after she was already dead. 338 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:32,080 I know. 339 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:33,080 That's terrible. 340 00:18:33,080 --> 00:18:37,080 I mean, Beth, that sounds like an act of rage to me. 341 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:39,000 Somebody went directly for her. 342 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,960 You know, that does sound very plausible. 343 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:47,440 Maybe somebody was really angry, you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, who knows what the 344 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,440 drama is back then. 345 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:50,440 True. 346 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:52,360 And if they were drinking. 347 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:53,360 Yes. 348 00:18:53,360 --> 00:18:59,040 As you can imagine, with the lack of physical evidence, only three suspects were placed 349 00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,720 on police radar throughout the years. 350 00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:11,000 Tip number one, Carl Vladimir Gilstrom, a man who ran a kiosk on the campgrounds. 351 00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:17,720 He had a hot temper and especially if there was noise, he would be seen throwing rocks 352 00:19:17,720 --> 00:19:20,560 at visitors when he was very angry. 353 00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:22,280 Oh my gosh. 354 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,280 How rude. 355 00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:24,280 Yeah. 356 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:25,280 How boyish. 357 00:19:25,280 --> 00:19:26,280 Exactly. 358 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:31,880 Boyish is a great word for that because come on now, you're trying to run a professional 359 00:19:31,880 --> 00:19:32,880 business. 360 00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:33,880 That's crazy. 361 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,160 I mean, not only that, but scary. 362 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:40,600 And you said that the group was partying around the campfire. 363 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:46,360 Yes, but they went down to sleep after that and I'm assuming they must've gone in a little 364 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:47,360 early and... 365 00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:49,400 Yeah, not soon enough. 366 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:50,400 No. 367 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:57,080 Carl died by suicide in 1969, but before he died, he confessed to the crime. 368 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:58,880 Oh wow, really? 369 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:04,520 That's really strange, but this claim was later debunked by his wife because she said 370 00:20:04,520 --> 00:20:08,680 he was with her throughout the whole night of June 4th, which is when the occurrence 371 00:20:08,680 --> 00:20:09,680 took place. 372 00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:10,680 Okay. 373 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:15,760 According to police, there was absolutely no evidence that Carl had executed the murders, 374 00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:21,040 so they closed Carl's file and moved on to search further suspects. 375 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:28,080 Suspect number two, Hans Asman was considered a suspect. 376 00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:31,800 I know, I know, I know. 377 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:34,840 Can you believe living your entire life with that name? 378 00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:40,880 Well, it's funny because I see a lot of names like that throughout my day and it's like, 379 00:20:40,880 --> 00:20:43,520 can you imagine having that name? 380 00:20:43,520 --> 00:20:46,000 Oh, that in itself. 381 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:53,540 Well, can you imagine having a middle name like Rose, like me, because I was teased terribly 382 00:20:53,540 --> 00:20:54,540 in school. 383 00:20:54,540 --> 00:20:55,540 Are you serious? 384 00:20:55,540 --> 00:20:56,540 Yes. 385 00:20:56,540 --> 00:21:01,000 And the funny thing is, remember the Halloween party that I went to? 386 00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:02,000 Yes. 387 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:07,960 Well, we got the last laugh because we took all those boys that were teasing me and we 388 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:10,320 were Googling them. 389 00:21:10,320 --> 00:21:14,000 And let me say, justice was done. 390 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:18,360 I got the last laugh and so did the group of ladies that were with me. 391 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:19,360 Yeah. 392 00:21:19,360 --> 00:21:20,360 You look like you had fun. 393 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:21,360 Good for you. 394 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:22,360 All right. 395 00:21:22,360 --> 00:21:27,920 So moving on past this name, man, I'm glad I never had to live with a name such as that. 396 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:28,920 Nope. 397 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,720 Hans Asman lived nearby Lake Bottoms Coast. 398 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:39,040 According to a local physician, Carl had presented at the hospital with multiple cuts and abrasions, 399 00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:42,880 dirt under his fingernails and blood on his clothes. 400 00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:49,600 Several novels had been written on Hans stating that he was guilty of this heinous crime. 401 00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:54,360 Police also believe that a figure that resembled Carl was amongst the mourners at the teen's 402 00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:55,360 funerals. 403 00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:56,360 Wow. 404 00:21:56,360 --> 00:21:59,160 I know that's kind of crazy, eh? 405 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:05,040 Well, you know, I mean, I've heard that criminals like to show up at that scene, either the 406 00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,720 crime scene or the teen's funerals. 407 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:08,840 That's shameful. 408 00:22:08,840 --> 00:22:10,320 It is shameful, but you're right. 409 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:13,880 They like to go back to the scene of the crime. 410 00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:14,880 Yeah. 411 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,000 His photo is a little grainy, so his identification could not be confirmed. 412 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,800 Police could find no further evidence that Carl took any part of the murders. 413 00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,400 Plus he had an alibi. 414 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,000 Apparently he was in Germany at the time of the murders. 415 00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:35,280 Don't you think though that he could sue someone for slander if so many books were written 416 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:41,840 about him in this case, especially if they were deliberately accusing him of this crime? 417 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:43,760 That's a very good thought. 418 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:45,840 Maybe people didn't sue each other back then. 419 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:46,840 That's true. 420 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:47,840 And plus it's another country. 421 00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:55,920 I mean, I know the United States is sue happy, but other countries might not be so much. 422 00:22:55,920 --> 00:22:58,960 So he was out of the picture for being a suspect. 423 00:22:58,960 --> 00:23:03,520 They moved on to suspect number three, Niles William Gustafen. 424 00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:06,680 Deb, does that name sound familiar? 425 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:07,680 How do you say that? 426 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:08,680 Gustafen? 427 00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:09,680 Gustafen? 428 00:23:09,680 --> 00:23:10,680 Okay. 429 00:23:10,680 --> 00:23:11,680 No. 430 00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:15,080 It sounds like one of those names from Beauty and the Beast. 431 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:16,080 I think it is. 432 00:23:16,080 --> 00:23:19,080 Oh wait, no, that's Gaston. 433 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,880 Oh, wait a minute though. 434 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,320 Niles, he was on the trip. 435 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:27,320 Yes. 436 00:23:27,320 --> 00:23:33,200 He was the one person who lived in that crime of violence the very night of the murders. 437 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:40,280 Over the next 40 years, after the murders of Sipo, Anya, and Amelie, Niles lived an 438 00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,000 average life, just like you and me. 439 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:44,000 Wow. 440 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:48,000 He married, he had two children, and then he went off to retire. 441 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:50,080 Way to put it into perspective, Beth. 442 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:57,980 Well, in March of 2004, Deb, 44 years after the incident, the police arrested Niles stating 443 00:23:57,980 --> 00:24:00,640 that he had been a suspect all along. 444 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:01,640 What do you think of that? 445 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:06,400 If you think about it, I mean, they always go back to the scene of the crime and he was 446 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:10,080 the only survivor. 447 00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:16,000 They based this arrest on the blood found in Niles' shoes of all three victims, but 448 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,140 there was not any blood from Niles himself. 449 00:24:19,140 --> 00:24:24,080 It was thought that the killer wore Niles' shoes when the victims was bludgeoned to death. 450 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,560 That's kind of strange, eh? 451 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:26,560 That is. 452 00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:32,120 Are they saying that Niles was in his own shoes or somebody else was in his shoes? 453 00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:36,480 Well, they were thinking somebody else was from all the reports that I read. 454 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:41,760 I mean, that's kind of weird in itself, but what injuries did Niles incur on the night 455 00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,200 of the murders or did he come out unscathed? 456 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,640 No, he was badly bruised and he even had stabs on him. 457 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:50,960 Oh gosh. 458 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:52,040 Okay. 459 00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:56,800 Because those shoes did not have Niles' blood on them, the prosecution surmised that the 460 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:01,120 attack on Niles occurred before the attack on the others. 461 00:25:01,120 --> 00:25:05,160 Authorities believed that Niles had committed the murders, then faked the disappearance 462 00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:10,640 of the missing items like the motorbike keys and the money they believed was there. 463 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:15,600 Then he returned to the tent where he proceeded to stab and bruise himself to make it appear 464 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,680 that there was another perpetrator. 465 00:25:17,680 --> 00:25:18,680 What was the motive? 466 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:19,680 Did they say? 467 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,360 Well, through the years, Niles kept tight lipped about the accounts of what had happened 468 00:25:23,360 --> 00:25:24,360 that night. 469 00:25:24,360 --> 00:25:25,520 So I have no idea. 470 00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:30,040 He was very disoriented and couldn't remember anything that had happened. 471 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:36,320 He just said he saw a black figure with red eyes near the camp right before the attack. 472 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,880 Oh, that's where your big foot comes in. 473 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:39,880 It does. 474 00:25:39,880 --> 00:25:40,880 Okay. 475 00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:41,880 Red eyes. 476 00:25:41,880 --> 00:25:42,880 I mean, that's believable. 477 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:43,880 I don't know. 478 00:25:43,880 --> 00:25:46,320 Wait, what does he mean though by red eyes? 479 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,640 Was it a monster with glowing red eyes as red as my hair right now? 480 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:51,640 Yes. 481 00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:54,160 Did it have bloodshot eyes? 482 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:55,160 I don't know. 483 00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:59,640 He might not have, maybe he didn't even have a drink, so he didn't have bloodshot eyes. 484 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:04,640 Niles was finally cleared of the murders on all counts on October 7th, 2005. 485 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,320 And when you think about it, that's not that long ago. 486 00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,880 It was long ago, but you know, this poor guy. 487 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:11,880 Yeah. 488 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:15,640 The court stated that there was not enough evidence to go through a trial. 489 00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:16,640 Wow. 490 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,720 To me, it doesn't sound like the police did much of an investigation here. 491 00:26:20,720 --> 00:26:27,120 No, it doesn't because after Niles, no other suspects were ever identified and the case 492 00:26:27,120 --> 00:26:28,400 went cold. 493 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:35,640 To this day, the Lake Bodom murders continue to be Finland's most heinous and longest unsolved 494 00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:36,640 crime. 495 00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:38,320 Oh, that's a shame. 496 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:39,400 It is. 497 00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:43,560 And I don't know if they still have the tent or any other evidence, but surely they could 498 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:46,520 test it for DNA now if they did. 499 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,160 Yeah, absolutely. 500 00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,880 My understanding that even if in recent years, Finland is still somewhat behind the times 501 00:26:52,880 --> 00:26:55,300 with DNA progression. 502 00:26:55,300 --> 00:26:59,520 So much of the time has gone by though, we may never know what really happened with the 503 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:00,960 Lake Bodom murders. 504 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:01,960 Huh. 505 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:05,200 So tell me again, what happened with the shoes? 506 00:27:05,200 --> 00:27:11,320 Because you said that everyone's blood was found on Niles shoes except his own. 507 00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:12,320 Yes. 508 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,720 The weird thing is I had three or four different records. 509 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:22,760 Each of the reports said the same thing, but nobody said how the shoes went missing. 510 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:25,000 So I'm going to be honest here. 511 00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:31,480 I don't know how the shoes ever got to be where they did, but there was blood in everyone 512 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:32,760 except Niles. 513 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:33,760 Okay. 514 00:27:33,760 --> 00:27:36,200 That's kind of strange in itself. 515 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:41,320 And you said that the shoes were buried away from the tent where they were stashed. 516 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:44,160 So he was basically found shoeless. 517 00:27:44,160 --> 00:27:45,800 Yes, he was. 518 00:27:45,800 --> 00:27:53,040 And I think when one report said 500 yards away, I think that's more plausible than the 519 00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,220 three miles because they'd never find the shoes three miles away. 520 00:27:57,220 --> 00:28:02,440 So they were far from the tent, but not obscenely far. 521 00:28:02,440 --> 00:28:03,440 Yeah. 522 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,160 I mean, that makes sense if you're settling in for the night, but I mean in itself, it 523 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,320 kind of sounds suspicious. 524 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:10,400 It does. 525 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:11,400 I don't know. 526 00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:12,400 Interesting. 527 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:14,040 It is. 528 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,840 So that's the mystery of the Lake Bodom murders. 529 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:19,040 Wow. 530 00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:20,040 That's it, huh? 531 00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:21,960 So it's an unself case today? 532 00:28:21,960 --> 00:28:22,960 It is. 533 00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:28,440 It's always, it's a shame when there's a case that just gets into your head and you can't 534 00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:30,160 find any answers. 535 00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:32,480 I hate unsolved mysteries. 536 00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:33,480 I know. 537 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:38,480 In this day and age, I keep saying after the year 2000, you have got to have some kind 538 00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:45,960 of way to connect that DNA, but you had mentioned Finland doesn't have the resources like maybe 539 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:48,960 the bigger countries or what have you have. 540 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:49,960 Exactly. 541 00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,120 I was quite behind even back then in the sixties. 542 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:54,120 Poor people. 543 00:28:54,120 --> 00:28:56,120 I feel bad. 544 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:57,320 I know. 545 00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,480 So Deb, what's your teachable moment? 546 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,080 Well, bear whistles. 547 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:02,080 What? 548 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,080 Yeah. 549 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Bear whistles. 550 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:08,980 Look, I have been hiking in some pretty desolate areas in the North Georgia mountains. 551 00:29:08,980 --> 00:29:13,980 There was one time Beth, that I took a five kilometer hike all by myself. 552 00:29:13,980 --> 00:29:16,380 I was never so creeped out in my life. 553 00:29:16,380 --> 00:29:20,320 It was just nothing but trees and hills and isolation. 554 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:26,480 I mean, these are parts known for black bears and black bear sightings. 555 00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,840 And one black bear was even found in my neighborhood not too long ago. 556 00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:31,840 Oh my. 557 00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:32,840 Yeah. 558 00:29:32,840 --> 00:29:37,920 So you'd better believe every sound from the surrounding woods, leaves rustling, twigs 559 00:29:37,920 --> 00:29:40,400 breaking scared the crap out of me, Beth. 560 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:42,440 Yeah, it would me too. 561 00:29:42,440 --> 00:29:49,120 So if you know you plan on going out on a hike in the woods or the mountains, especially 562 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,600 if you're roughing it and you just simply need to bring a bear whistle. 563 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:59,240 Believe it or not, I looked up its effectiveness while I was trying to think of a teachable 564 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:02,720 moment and bear whistles do not deter bears. 565 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:03,720 Did you know that? 566 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:04,720 No. 567 00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:05,720 Yeah. 568 00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:07,080 They are not deterred from the sound. 569 00:30:07,080 --> 00:30:09,240 You need some kind of repellent for that. 570 00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:15,700 Bear whistles are highly effective for drawing attention due to its intensity. 571 00:30:15,700 --> 00:30:18,920 So if you go out, be sure you carry a bear whistle. 572 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:22,280 This is not just about group settings and being in the wilderness, Beth. 573 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,740 If this group went hiking and camping and had a bear whistle on them or even a police 574 00:30:27,740 --> 00:30:34,240 whistle, Beth, they may have likely been able to stop the attack long before it happened 575 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:35,240 and bring help. 576 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,760 So basically that's my teachable moment. 577 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,000 That's a good one, Deb. 578 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:42,200 I actually carried a whistle for years. 579 00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:43,600 Dad's military whistle. 580 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:44,880 Do you remember that one? 581 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:45,880 Yeah, for sure. 582 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:49,760 And I do feel like it was pretty much dry rotted when I was a kid. 583 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:54,840 So Beth, that was an amazing, amazing story as usual. 584 00:30:54,840 --> 00:31:01,560 You were so good at finding these stories that are just kind of off the beaten path. 585 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,080 So that was interesting. 586 00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,960 I hope one day that we can find resolution to this. 587 00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:11,800 As always, that's kind of what you and I look forward to is always trying to find answers 588 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:15,120 to the missing case or to the cold case. 589 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:16,340 All right. 590 00:31:16,340 --> 00:31:18,280 So there you have it. 591 00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:20,080 And that's a wrap. 592 00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:21,080 That is a wrap. 593 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,560 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. 594 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,580 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 595 00:31:28,580 --> 00:31:34,280 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 596 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:40,160 You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking 597 00:31:40,160 --> 00:31:42,920 on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 598 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:48,440 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at BuyMeACoffee.com slash Dying 599 00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:51,680 to be Found spelled just like you see it on our logo. 600 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,360 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. 601 00:31:55,360 --> 00:32:00,620 Or if you'd like a sticker with that, be sure to check us out every Thursday or every get 602 00:32:00,620 --> 00:32:01,620 your podcasts. 603 00:32:01,620 --> 00:32:03,640 We will talk to you all next week. 604 00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:04,640 Bye. 605 00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:33,500 Shake hands.