1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:03,100 Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. 2 00:00:03,100 --> 00:00:07,840 Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:12,380 on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind. 4 00:00:12,380 --> 00:00:17,640 Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:18,640 podcast. 6 00:00:18,640 --> 00:00:23,440 Listener discretion is strongly advised. 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:25,100 Hi everyone, I'm Deb. 8 00:00:25,100 --> 00:00:26,160 And I'm Beth. 9 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:31,400 And we want to welcome you to episode number 37 of Dying to be Found. 10 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:33,220 We're so glad you're here today. 11 00:00:33,220 --> 00:00:35,080 We appreciate our listeners. 12 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:38,780 And if you want a sticker, be sure to DM us on Instagram. 13 00:00:38,780 --> 00:00:41,660 And please be sure to leave a five star review. 14 00:00:41,660 --> 00:00:43,960 Let's see what Beth is up to today. 15 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:45,720 Hi Bethy Boo, what are you doing? 16 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:49,920 Well, I'm off today and I worked on more Christmas cards. 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:57,080 I know I said I was done with my 45, but I'm working on nine more for four dear friends. 18 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:02,480 Oh, now I will tell you this because it is so cool to go back and listen to everything 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:03,640 that we've recorded. 20 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:09,320 And I will tell you that when I was editing for some reason, when you said 45 cards, it 21 00:01:09,320 --> 00:01:10,320 didn't come through. 22 00:01:10,320 --> 00:01:13,200 The number 45 did not come through in the recording. 23 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:18,500 So now we're letting our listeners know that you are working on 45 Christmas cards. 24 00:01:18,500 --> 00:01:21,040 And I'm saying that's a little too early for me. 25 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:26,600 I know you're always just sliding in, but the problem is I have Christmas presents I'm 26 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:27,600 making. 27 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,400 I wish I had that talent. 28 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:34,640 I just don't have the patience to do all that home crafting, which we all really need to 29 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:35,880 get back to. 30 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,720 If everything closed on Sundays, maybe we would have time. 31 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:42,600 Yeah, but you're the mastermind behind this podcast. 32 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,840 You know all the ins and outs can download this. 33 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:47,400 I don't know any of that. 34 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:48,920 So I'll stay in my stamp room. 35 00:01:48,920 --> 00:01:49,920 I love it. 36 00:01:49,920 --> 00:01:51,320 That's what makes us so diverse. 37 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:56,440 What makes you someone who looks forward to podcasting every week? 38 00:01:56,440 --> 00:02:03,480 I look forward to seeing you because you're my sister. 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:09,080 But technically, I love the research because my mindset, that's what I do. 40 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:14,840 I'm glad you asked that because what keeps me going is that I feel like we're giving 41 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:21,440 the victims in our stories a voice because a lot of them happened a long time ago and 42 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:25,140 some of them that we've talked about are unsolved. 43 00:02:25,140 --> 00:02:33,200 And so sometimes if you just resurface stories that kind of go on the wayside or you know, 44 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,420 forgotten unfortunately, bring it up. 45 00:02:36,420 --> 00:02:38,040 Maybe somebody knows something. 46 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:41,960 That'll be cool if we can get some of these cases solved. 47 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:42,960 That would be awesome. 48 00:02:42,960 --> 00:02:44,600 But I do have a question for you. 49 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,600 What? 50 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,560 If you were to live in an era besides the one we're in now, what would it be? 51 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,680 I love the Victorian era. 52 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:53,680 Why? 53 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:58,000 Because I'm a fashionista and I love all those clothes. 54 00:02:58,000 --> 00:03:03,320 Of course I would have to be somebody that is well to do so that I could dress up and 55 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:05,360 change twice a day. 56 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:10,280 Oh, so do you think that you would fit right in with Downton Abbey? 57 00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,320 Yes, I would. 58 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:13,440 Did you watch that series? 59 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:16,840 I did in the movie on the big screen. 60 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:17,840 Awesome. 61 00:03:17,840 --> 00:03:21,880 Okay, I also love the English Victorian vibes. 62 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:22,880 I think that's cool. 63 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,120 I really do say I have an old soul. 64 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:30,520 So if I were to pick an era, I would also say the Victorian age because again, like 65 00:03:30,520 --> 00:03:32,720 you, I love how people dressed. 66 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:37,560 There's a really cool show on PBS called Mr. Selfridge. 67 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:38,560 Have you seen that one? 68 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,600 No, I'll have to look for that. 69 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:42,480 It's kind of the same concept. 70 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:46,320 It's at the beginning of the turn of the 1900s. 71 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:53,220 Mr. Selfridge is a real man who started a retail line kind of like Sears Roebuck. 72 00:03:53,220 --> 00:03:59,400 So he was an American salesman or an American businessman who opened retail stores over 73 00:03:59,400 --> 00:04:00,400 in England. 74 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:01,640 And guess what? 75 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:02,640 What? 76 00:04:02,640 --> 00:04:06,120 He's the one that coined the term, the customer is always right. 77 00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:07,120 You're kidding. 78 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:08,680 I learned that. 79 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:09,800 Okay, you know me. 80 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:11,520 I'm going to look at something historical. 81 00:04:11,520 --> 00:04:12,520 I'm going to watch it. 82 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:17,320 I'm going to read it, but I'm also going to be researching it at the same time. 83 00:04:17,320 --> 00:04:19,920 And that's how I learned that he was the one that coined that phrase. 84 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:20,920 I like that. 85 00:04:20,920 --> 00:04:28,200 And wasn't it nice the manners that the ladies and gentlemen had back then and no hooligans? 86 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:30,480 What is it you, the word you use? 87 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:31,480 Whackadoodles? 88 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:35,080 Yes, no Whackadoodles. 89 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:36,080 You're so right. 90 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:42,240 I did want to let you know I'm turning the script here because we are going to go back 91 00:04:42,240 --> 00:04:45,520 to the Victorian era. 92 00:04:45,520 --> 00:04:46,520 Cool. 93 00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:47,520 Yeah. 94 00:04:47,520 --> 00:04:50,200 And we're going to talk about Amelia Dyer. 95 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:54,440 And I do want to give a trigger warning to our listeners before we get started because 96 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,920 this can be a tough topic for a lot of people. 97 00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:04,320 And I am going to be as respectful as possible, but we are talking about baby victims today. 98 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:07,560 Yes, I think that is a great warning. 99 00:05:07,560 --> 00:05:13,760 I know my daughter has a hard time when it comes time for the children on our podcast. 100 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:14,760 Understandable. 101 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:21,200 Well, we're going to be talking about Amelia Dyer, who is also known as one of the most 102 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,080 prolific Victorian serial killers in British history. 103 00:05:25,080 --> 00:05:33,680 She was born Amelia Elizabeth Hobbly in 1836 to Samuel and Sarah Hobbly in a small village 104 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,480 named Pile Marsh just east of Bristol, England. 105 00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:42,840 Samuel was a master shoemaker and provided for his family the best he could. 106 00:05:42,840 --> 00:05:49,120 Amelia's family was not rich by any means, but Samuel did have a good reputation around 107 00:05:49,120 --> 00:05:55,040 town so that allowed him to bring in a steady income, which is good for those times, right? 108 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:56,040 Yes. 109 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Amelia was the youngest of five siblings. 110 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:02,360 She loved to read and write and was especially fond of poetry. 111 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,120 Do you like poetry, Beth? 112 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,120 No. 113 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:06,120 Why not? 114 00:06:06,120 --> 00:06:08,480 Because I don't understand a lot of it. 115 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:09,480 That's true. 116 00:06:09,480 --> 00:06:16,000 During her humble upbringings, Amelia was very well educated and was considered to be a natural 117 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:17,220 caretaker. 118 00:06:17,220 --> 00:06:22,920 When she was very young, Amelia's mother suffered from typhoid fever, which is a bacterial 119 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:29,400 infection that causes mental disease and it's usually transmitted by mosquitoes or lice. 120 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:37,160 When symptoms of typhoid fever or typhus include a rash and sensitivity to light, the infection 121 00:06:37,160 --> 00:06:43,000 eventually attacks the brain and is known to cause delirium, which is what happened 122 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,640 to Amelia's mother. 123 00:06:44,640 --> 00:06:45,640 That's sad. 124 00:06:45,640 --> 00:06:46,640 Yeah. 125 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:49,440 That would be really hard to see your own mother like that. 126 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:55,600 Well, Sarah's mental health took a turn for the worse and the family could do very little, 127 00:06:55,600 --> 00:07:00,000 to watch their mother's mental health deteriorate, just like you said. 128 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,120 So they were just bystanders watching it happen, unfortunately. 129 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:04,960 Yeah, that's very sad. 130 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:10,080 I had an older friend that had a very successful career as a missionary. 131 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:11,480 She went overseas. 132 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:16,400 Unfortunately, she was bit by a mosquito and developed typhoid fever. 133 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:17,660 Oh my. 134 00:07:17,660 --> 00:07:19,620 She had hallucinations. 135 00:07:19,620 --> 00:07:23,000 She didn't know where she was or anything. 136 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:29,120 And she was very ill, both physically and mentally and had to be sent home to Ontario 137 00:07:29,120 --> 00:07:31,840 where she lived out the rest of her life with mental illness. 138 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:38,440 Now she started with her illness in her early thirties, late twenties. 139 00:07:38,440 --> 00:07:39,440 What? 140 00:07:39,440 --> 00:07:40,440 Yes. 141 00:07:40,440 --> 00:07:46,920 So much life ahead of her and she still had her hallucinations throughout her life. 142 00:07:46,920 --> 00:07:47,920 Wow. 143 00:07:47,920 --> 00:07:51,920 I don't know too much about the fever, but of course that would be something I'd have 144 00:07:51,920 --> 00:07:53,360 to research a little bit. 145 00:07:53,360 --> 00:07:54,360 And that is so sad. 146 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:59,320 I mean, yeah, like you said, to be so young and have her life ahead of her, especially 147 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,420 if you knew her personality before she became ill. 148 00:08:03,420 --> 00:08:08,660 And then of course watching somebody like that, I suppose it would be very similar to 149 00:08:08,660 --> 00:08:15,000 Alzheimer's and I've witnessed people with Alzheimer's and it's difficult to watch. 150 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:16,000 Yes. 151 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:22,880 Sarah often became violent, which resulted in regular beatings for Amelia and her siblings. 152 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:29,160 Amelia looked after Sarah until her death in 1848, which would have been when Amelia 153 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:32,160 was somewhere around the age of 12 years old. 154 00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:38,880 So she's caring for her mother at the age of 12 and then she loses her mother at that 155 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:39,880 age. 156 00:08:39,880 --> 00:08:40,880 That is so hard. 157 00:08:40,880 --> 00:08:46,480 There's a lot of hardship on Amelia having to play the mother role. 158 00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:47,480 Yeah. 159 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:52,680 I wonder why though, because if she was the youngest of five siblings, why was she given 160 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:53,680 that responsibility? 161 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:54,680 I don't know. 162 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:58,040 Nothing I read alluded to anything. 163 00:08:58,040 --> 00:08:59,040 What do you think? 164 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:02,480 Well, maybe she was the most responsible, even if she was the youngest. 165 00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:07,220 I think there were other girls in the mix and of course back in the day, girls over 166 00:09:07,220 --> 00:09:12,000 boys, boys would be helping around the house or on the farm or whatever they were doing, 167 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,040 but girls would probably be given that responsibility and maybe she just had a maturity about her 168 00:09:17,040 --> 00:09:20,320 at that age and she was a natural caregiver. 169 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:21,320 True. 170 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:23,360 And maybe her mother trusted her more. 171 00:09:23,360 --> 00:09:24,360 Agreed. 172 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:25,360 There's so many maybes. 173 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:26,360 There is. 174 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:32,680 Well, soon after her mother's death, Amelia went to go live with her aunt in Bristol and 175 00:09:32,680 --> 00:09:39,640 it's speculated that the combination of Amelia's experiences might be one of the things that 176 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:46,280 Amelia held onto during her adult life causing deep resentments plus mental health issues. 177 00:09:46,280 --> 00:09:52,600 As Amelia reached adulthood, her aunt sent her to intern with a corset maker, which will 178 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:54,680 come into play in just a little bit, Beth. 179 00:09:54,680 --> 00:09:55,680 That will be interesting. 180 00:09:55,680 --> 00:09:58,120 I'm anxious to hear about that. 181 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:04,420 Somewhere around the age of 24 or 25, Amelia married a man named George Thomas, who was 182 00:10:04,420 --> 00:10:06,720 presumed to be in his late fifties. 183 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:08,160 Oh my gosh. 184 00:10:08,160 --> 00:10:10,000 Yeah, quite the age gap. 185 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:16,460 Both ended up lying about their ages because it looked odd to others and they added six 186 00:10:16,460 --> 00:10:21,920 years to Amelia's age and deducted 11 years off of George. 187 00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:24,760 Well, wasn't that clever of them. 188 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:25,760 But why? 189 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:26,760 Why would they? 190 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:27,960 Why would they, you ask? 191 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:29,800 Why would they, Deb? 192 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:35,360 Well, it just goes to show you that social pressure goes way back to the 1800s. 193 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:36,360 What a shame. 194 00:10:36,360 --> 00:10:37,360 Yeah. 195 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:41,320 People are judging couples based on how much older he is. 196 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:44,360 It's not common, but to each his own. 197 00:10:44,360 --> 00:10:45,360 Right. 198 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:48,960 Of course, those were different ages or different times. 199 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:54,320 During their marriage, George encouraged Amelia to go to nursing school where she became a 200 00:10:54,320 --> 00:10:56,060 nurse and a midwife. 201 00:10:56,060 --> 00:11:01,600 The couple had one child together, but because of their age difference, Amelia eventually 202 00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,760 became a widow with a newborn. 203 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:10,240 And like many widows during that era, Amelia had to quickly find income and had heard about 204 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,240 this thing called baby farming. 205 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:13,240 Have you heard of that, Beth? 206 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:18,000 No, but I'm going to assume it's not good since we're talking about crimes here. 207 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:23,080 Is it similar to what H.H. Holmes did when he collected corpses for the medical schools? 208 00:11:23,080 --> 00:11:24,080 Hmm. 209 00:11:24,080 --> 00:11:25,080 Good question. 210 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:27,840 Sort of, but not exactly. 211 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:33,920 Because if you go back to our episode on H.H. Holmes, we talked about during that era, which 212 00:11:33,920 --> 00:11:41,120 was probably a little bit later in time, but he was collecting skeletons because the medical 213 00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:44,180 field was short on corpses during that era. 214 00:11:44,180 --> 00:11:48,300 So he was collecting skeletons to make money. 215 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:54,580 In this case, Amelia had heard about that baby farming because it was also a moneymaker. 216 00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:59,940 Because of the era, pregnancy out of wedlock was considered extremely taboo. 217 00:11:59,940 --> 00:12:09,720 So in 1834, a Poor Law Amendment Act was drafted, which allowed men to take absolutely no responsibility 218 00:12:09,720 --> 00:12:16,320 in fathering children, but it gave women a chance to foster out or adopt out their illegitimate 219 00:12:16,320 --> 00:12:17,320 child. 220 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:21,960 What is this about the father not having to take any responsibility? 221 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,120 That is just plain ridiculous. 222 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,120 Yeah. 223 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:31,560 I think it just goes back to, it's just a time of where people were struggling financially. 224 00:12:31,560 --> 00:12:33,120 It was hard to find jobs. 225 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:39,020 And of course, even if you were farming, then maybe you could only go so far as far as the 226 00:12:39,020 --> 00:12:41,120 crops that you could sell out. 227 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,400 It was just hard times financially. 228 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:48,080 It was, but I just still think that it's really a hard thing to- 229 00:12:48,080 --> 00:12:51,000 Encourage men to be absentee fathers? 230 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:52,000 Yes. 231 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:53,000 Bingo. 232 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:55,040 Yeah, well, here's my deal on that. 233 00:12:55,040 --> 00:13:01,040 How is it okay to have an absentee father, but you're going to judge a single mother? 234 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:02,040 Exactly. 235 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:03,040 Yeah. 236 00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,760 Well, I don't think it's too much different in today's age, but- 237 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:07,280 It's not. 238 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:13,800 The baby farming era was not anything like today's fostering or adoption process. 239 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:19,560 But I will say, Beth, that this case did change how babies were processed through the system 240 00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,600 in the future after I finished telling you what Amelia had done. 241 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:26,120 I'm very interested in hearing about that. 242 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:27,520 I can't imagine. 243 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:34,160 Well, in Victorian times, mothers would be charged a fee to have their children fostered 244 00:13:34,160 --> 00:13:36,000 or adopted out. 245 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,200 Many times, they never went back to check on their babies because of that social stigma 246 00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,560 and shame that went along with it. 247 00:13:43,560 --> 00:13:48,520 All single mothers could do was assume that their child was being well taken care of. 248 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:52,160 Well, you would think they would be if they're paying good money. 249 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:56,360 Sure, and they're getting assurances from the people that they're sending their babies 250 00:13:56,360 --> 00:13:57,640 to. 251 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,320 Mothers would often answer ads in the newspaper. 252 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:09,160 In 1869, one of these ads read, quote, highly respectable married couple wish to adopt child, 253 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,120 good home, premium required, unquote. 254 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:18,840 Of course, since Amelia was a midwife, it was easy for her to win over these mothers. 255 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:24,480 She was quite convincing and assured the mothers that their child would be well taken care 256 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:25,480 of. 257 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:32,080 Naturally, baby farming became quite the lucrative business for Amelia, as she always demanded 258 00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:33,720 upfront payments. 259 00:14:33,720 --> 00:14:38,600 And if you go back to the ad that she had, the premium required pretty much tells you 260 00:14:38,600 --> 00:14:41,680 that you were going to have to pay to place the baby with her. 261 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:48,120 Oh, and she charged depending on the health of each child, but she could easily collect 262 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:56,700 anywhere upwards of 80 pounds, which is 90 in US dollars or 123 Canadian dollars. 263 00:14:56,700 --> 00:14:58,520 Just trying to put that into perspective for you. 264 00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,240 That's a lot back then. 265 00:15:00,240 --> 00:15:02,840 Oh gosh, yes, absolutely. 266 00:15:02,840 --> 00:15:12,640 Now remember, this was the 1800s, so today that 8,000 pounds would equate to almost 9,000 267 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:18,120 US dollars or 12,405 Canadian dollars today. 268 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:19,120 Holy cow. 269 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:23,240 I mean, I think that's average if you think about it. 270 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:25,560 It's expensive to adopt babies. 271 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:30,600 It is, but it would seem to me that with the fees like those days, mothers could keep their 272 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:33,640 children and raise them themselves. 273 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:34,640 What do you think of that? 274 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,000 Oh my gosh, you are so right. 275 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:38,000 Absolutely. 276 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:39,940 I mean, I think that was just the thing though. 277 00:15:39,940 --> 00:15:44,320 They were probably worried that they couldn't make ends meet. 278 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:50,240 And if they just made a weekly salary and they were able to give that over to whoever, 279 00:15:50,240 --> 00:15:53,240 but Amelia demanded fees upfront. 280 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,040 So imagine paying that kind of money in one lump sum. 281 00:15:57,040 --> 00:15:58,320 That would be tough. 282 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:03,800 And remember though, that being an unwed mother during that era was frowned upon. 283 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:04,800 True enough. 284 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:11,120 By 1872, Amelia eventually remarried for a second time to a man named William Dyer. 285 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,600 The couple had two more children together, but eventually separated just a few years 286 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:16,600 later. 287 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:22,400 And of course, Amelia went back to baby farming and made an honest go of it for a couple of 288 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:23,400 years. 289 00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:29,480 However, it is believed that a combination of the death of her first husband, plus the 290 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:35,720 trauma that she may have experienced watching her own mother's mental health deteriorate, 291 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,240 that this began to have an effect on Amelia's own mental capacities. 292 00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,720 And that makes sense. 293 00:16:41,720 --> 00:16:49,260 If she's watching her own mother, she wouldn't know any better how to behave or act because 294 00:16:49,260 --> 00:16:50,680 it was normal. 295 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:51,680 Exactly. 296 00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:56,280 So true, and she was 12 years old and that's still an impressionable age. 297 00:16:56,280 --> 00:16:58,880 It is, sadly. 298 00:16:58,880 --> 00:16:59,880 Yeah. 299 00:16:59,880 --> 00:17:04,960 Amelia did all but take good care of the children that she later took in. 300 00:17:04,960 --> 00:17:09,800 In fact, Beth, she took several avenues to get rid of these children. 301 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:11,880 Oh, do tell. 302 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:16,280 She often neglected and even starved them to death. 303 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:18,680 And I heard that's a horrible way to die. 304 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:21,160 Oh, that's horrible. 305 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:26,280 Even worse, the children's deaths didn't happen soon enough for Amelia, so she took measures 306 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:27,680 to speed up the process. 307 00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,040 I hate to hear what comes next. 308 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:38,000 Amelia would overdose the babies with an opioid syrup meant to calm crying babies. 309 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,880 And depending on the health of the children Amelia took in, their deaths could take anywhere 310 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:47,880 between several days and even the same day before they died. 311 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:48,880 That's brutal. 312 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:49,880 Yeah. 313 00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,120 It was one of the signs of the times. 314 00:17:52,120 --> 00:17:57,840 Infant mortality rates were considerably high and Amelia felt that it was rather safe to 315 00:17:57,840 --> 00:18:00,680 call the doctor to report these sudden deaths. 316 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:07,040 In order to obtain a death certificate, doctors eventually became suspicious of Amelia when 317 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:10,840 they noticed a large number of children were dying under her care. 318 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:14,360 Well, I'm glad it was being noticed. 319 00:18:14,360 --> 00:18:20,360 These doctors did report her, Beth, to the authorities, but Amelia only received charges 320 00:18:20,360 --> 00:18:24,040 of neglect and was given six months of hard labor. 321 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:25,040 Couldn't be enough. 322 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,720 I've never heard of a woman getting hard labor. 323 00:18:27,720 --> 00:18:28,720 Neither have I. 324 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,200 I wonder what they did. 325 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:33,520 Did they break up rocks at the side of the railroad track? 326 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:35,000 I don't know. 327 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,980 After she served her time, Amelia took this as a lesson learned. 328 00:18:38,980 --> 00:18:44,180 She began to move around often and continued to farm more babies. 329 00:18:44,180 --> 00:18:50,040 By this time, she stopped taking the children that she was caring for to the doctor, either 330 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:53,160 for treatment or for a death certificate. 331 00:18:53,160 --> 00:18:58,880 Instead, she continued to collect the baby farming fees from desperate mothers, starve 332 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:04,320 their children to death, and dispose of the bodies around town or in the Thames River. 333 00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:05,880 That's pretty horrifying. 334 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:06,880 Yeah. 335 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:12,080 The babies would often be wrapped in packing paper before she disposed of them. 336 00:19:12,080 --> 00:19:18,080 Anytime that Amelia felt that police might be getting close to her, to identifying her 337 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:22,560 as a suspect, she would check herself into a mental asylum. 338 00:19:22,560 --> 00:19:23,560 What do you think of that? 339 00:19:23,560 --> 00:19:25,840 Well, that's pretty clever of her. 340 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:26,840 Yeah. 341 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,320 Very manipulative, I think. 342 00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:29,640 Yes, very. 343 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:36,580 She also kept on the move and had several aliases to keep up her image to unwed mothers 344 00:19:36,580 --> 00:19:38,980 and to keep the police off her trail. 345 00:19:38,980 --> 00:19:44,820 I think she would have a lot of aliases too going into the mental asylum because she would 346 00:19:44,820 --> 00:19:48,200 know how to act when she needed to act. 347 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:49,200 You're right. 348 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:55,480 Well, during one of her, and I'll call it a foster, the mother returned to check up 349 00:19:55,480 --> 00:20:01,360 on her child, which was very unusual, of course, because I had mentioned that it's shameful 350 00:20:01,360 --> 00:20:06,040 for the mothers to give up their babies or to even be a single mother. 351 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,040 Right. 352 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:12,120 Because most mothers who farm out their babies never come back into contact with the child 353 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:15,160 that they gave up because it was very humiliating. 354 00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:21,860 However, this one mother named Evelina Marmon showed up to check on her baby, Dolores. 355 00:20:21,860 --> 00:20:27,400 And while she was holding Dolores, Evelina went to look for a birthmark that she knew 356 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,680 that her child had, but there was none, Beth. 357 00:20:30,680 --> 00:20:31,680 What? 358 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:32,680 Yeah. 359 00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,680 Amelia had given her a different baby. 360 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:35,680 Get out of here. 361 00:20:35,680 --> 00:20:40,200 I mean, wouldn't you know, I don't care what the separation time would be. 362 00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:41,920 Wouldn't you know your own baby? 363 00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,280 Yes, most definitely. 364 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:45,280 Yeah. 365 00:20:45,280 --> 00:20:51,200 Before Evelina could take her suspicions to the police, Amelia disappeared, likely back 366 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:52,680 into the insane asylum. 367 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:55,920 Yes, that sounds very plausible. 368 00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:01,700 Well, because of her nursing training, Amelia knew how to manipulate that situation. 369 00:21:01,700 --> 00:21:08,120 Like we had mentioned, she would check herself in and put on a very good show for the hospital 370 00:21:08,120 --> 00:21:11,640 staff for a few months before she was released. 371 00:21:11,640 --> 00:21:16,840 This seemed to help keep visits away from the law enforcement, which gave Amelia time 372 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:20,000 to move towns and to change her identity. 373 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:25,480 I'm starting to see familiarity among these criminals. 374 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:26,480 Do you say? 375 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:28,480 Well, it's like H.H. 376 00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:29,480 Holmes. 377 00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:35,960 He would go to different towns and woo a woman and then he would bring her back and then 378 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:38,040 he'd use different names. 379 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:43,840 He would have different signatures for different companies he worked with. 380 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,280 It just seems like they all have that same mentality. 381 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:48,840 You are so right. 382 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:53,960 There's definitely no handbook for this, but it's got to be in the genetic makeup of these 383 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:54,960 criminals. 384 00:21:54,960 --> 00:21:57,320 Yes, I believe that's right, Deb. 385 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:01,920 I mean, in childhood development, you've got so many different personalities and you know 386 00:22:01,920 --> 00:22:06,760 within the first five years how essential those years are in your development. 387 00:22:06,760 --> 00:22:07,760 Very. 388 00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:14,240 But if you are missing something because of how you were raised or what you were exposed 389 00:22:14,240 --> 00:22:15,760 to, you're right. 390 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:19,880 It's very interesting that they would have those same traits. 391 00:22:19,880 --> 00:22:25,600 But me, I am not a psychiatrist or a psychologist, so it's just an opinion, folks. 392 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,760 So did they ever catch Amelia? 393 00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,400 Well, they did. 394 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:36,440 For almost 30 years, Amelia successfully farmed babies without ever getting caught. 395 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:42,840 Six babies in total were eventually discovered, but the one found in the Thames River led 396 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:44,960 police back to Amelia's house. 397 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:46,880 And you're not going to believe this. 398 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:47,880 What? 399 00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:49,160 I'm very interested. 400 00:22:49,160 --> 00:22:56,040 A bargeman who was traveling up the Thames River through reading noticed a parcel floating 401 00:22:56,040 --> 00:23:00,880 by the riverbank and used his boat hook to reel it in. 402 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:07,920 A baby girl was later identified as Helena Frye, and she was wrapped in the packing paper 403 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,400 like the others and had dressmaking tape around her neck. 404 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:17,680 I just want to mention, what did I say Amelia was doing when she went to go live with her 405 00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:18,680 aunt? 406 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,440 She was she interned as a dressmaker or corset maker. 407 00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:30,360 When police were called in, they noticed a name and address of a woman named Mrs. Thomas 408 00:23:30,360 --> 00:23:32,220 in the corner of the package. 409 00:23:32,220 --> 00:23:34,480 This was one of Amelia's aliases. 410 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:35,600 Wow. 411 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:43,400 Can you believe that she was stupid enough to package a child with her address inside 412 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,760 of the box? 413 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:47,460 Pretty cocky of her thinking she'd never get caught. 414 00:23:47,460 --> 00:23:48,460 So true. 415 00:23:48,460 --> 00:23:54,760 Mrs. Thomas was one of the names that Amelia went by to elude police or to draw single 416 00:23:54,760 --> 00:23:55,760 mothers in. 417 00:23:55,760 --> 00:24:01,200 Upon further investigation, neighbors had told police that Mrs. Thomas had moved. 418 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,560 So she must have known they were on to her. 419 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:10,440 When they searched the apartment, police could clearly smell human decomposition, but found 420 00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:12,480 no bodies on the property. 421 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,520 That's awful. 422 00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,520 Yeah. 423 00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:22,200 They did discover, however, receipts for baby farming advertisements, some telegrams showing 424 00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:28,040 adoption arrangements, letters from mothers who were requesting to see their baby, and 425 00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:34,680 a sewing basket with dressmaker's tape, similar to what was found around several of the baby's 426 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,560 necks who were discovered around town. 427 00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:42,560 And this was enough to send police back to the Thames River to dredge it up in the area 428 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,120 where baby Helena had been found. 429 00:24:45,120 --> 00:24:48,920 And this is when they recovered another six bodies, Beth. 430 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:49,920 Wow. 431 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,480 I'm sure she did a lot more than that. 432 00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:54,120 Oh, yes. 433 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:59,440 Each of these babies that they had found had dressmaker tape wrapped around their necks, 434 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,800 which at this point had become Amelia's signature. 435 00:25:02,800 --> 00:25:06,440 One of the babies that they had recovered was Doris Marmon. 436 00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:12,360 And this is Evelina's baby who had that birthmark that her mother was looking for on the day 437 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,160 that she came to check on Doris. 438 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:15,560 Get out. 439 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:16,560 Yep. 440 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:23,120 Once police located the baby, police called Evelina in to identify her, then began to 441 00:25:23,120 --> 00:25:27,520 make a pretty great effort in tracking Amelia down at this point. 442 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:30,160 Oh, how devastating to poor mom. 443 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,840 Oh, I know. 444 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,800 Once they located Amelia, they did not immediately arrest her. 445 00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:43,080 Instead, they placed her under surveillance, and with the help of Evelina, they used her 446 00:25:43,080 --> 00:25:49,320 as a decoy by placing an ad in the paper asking for someone to adopt her baby. 447 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:55,960 How brave of Evelina to do something like that, knowing what Amelia had done to her 448 00:25:55,960 --> 00:25:56,960 own child. 449 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,440 Yes, for sure. 450 00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:02,880 Amelia was the one to respond to her ad. 451 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:08,080 And when Amelia set up a time to meet with Evelina, the police rushed in and arrested 452 00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:09,080 her. 453 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:15,120 They found that Amelia took full blame and admitted to the baby murders to a jailhouse 454 00:26:15,120 --> 00:26:20,480 chaplain saying that she knew the babies that had been recovered were hers based on the 455 00:26:20,480 --> 00:26:22,080 tape found around their neck. 456 00:26:22,080 --> 00:26:23,080 That's interesting. 457 00:26:23,080 --> 00:26:25,920 I wonder why she had tape around their necks. 458 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:27,240 She choked them to death. 459 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:28,240 She strangled them. 460 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,680 Some, if it didn't happen quick enough, she strangled them. 461 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:32,680 But they were starved. 462 00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:34,720 Did I not tell you that? 463 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:36,720 Sorry, folks. 464 00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,200 Okay. 465 00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:45,640 In March 1896, Amelia was tried for the murder of the first baby that police had discovered. 466 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:52,240 She pled insanity for the other six murders based on being admitted to insane asylums. 467 00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,560 So she was using that as a ploy. 468 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:55,560 Yeah. 469 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:56,560 She knew what she was doing. 470 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:57,560 Oh, sure. 471 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,560 She did. 472 00:26:58,560 --> 00:27:06,000 However, the jury saw right through her and found her guilty in just four and a half minutes. 473 00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,000 That's a record. 474 00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,000 Yeah. 475 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:09,000 I like that. 476 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:10,000 Mm-hmm. 477 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:17,560 Amelia was sentenced to death and died by hanging on June 10th, 1896 at the age of 57. 478 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,320 Her last words, what do you think she might have said before she died, Beth? 479 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,320 Maybe an apology? 480 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:23,320 No. 481 00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,000 She literally said, quote, I have nothing to say, unquote. 482 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,000 What do you think? 483 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:29,280 That's horrible. 484 00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:33,080 She has grandiose ideas of herself. 485 00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:34,080 Has no conscience. 486 00:27:34,080 --> 00:27:35,080 Exactly. 487 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:36,760 No conscience at all. 488 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,800 Was poor parents. 489 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,760 Police believe that although Amelia was charged with only one death, she could have killed 490 00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:48,760 as many as 400. 491 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:50,300 Oh my gosh. 492 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:57,520 They also believe that had they not been led to little Helena Fry, Amelia likely would never 493 00:27:57,520 --> 00:27:58,920 have been caught. 494 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:05,360 And after Amelia's death, adoption laws became much, much stricter in the UK. 495 00:28:05,360 --> 00:28:06,360 Fantastic. 496 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:07,440 Mm-hmm. 497 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:14,040 Some experts compared Amelia's actions with Jack the Ripper due to their similarities. 498 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:16,600 I thought that was pretty interesting. 499 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:18,920 And I did see that in several articles. 500 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:23,440 So I fact checked that one, but I found it quite interesting that they would compare 501 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:25,160 her to Jack the Ripper. 502 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:26,160 Yeah. 503 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,280 Amelia and Jack the Ripper occurred during the same era. 504 00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:37,160 And many believe that with Amelia's background as a midwife, she may have performed botched 505 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:43,640 abortions on area prostitutes who later fell into Jack the Ripper's hands. 506 00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:44,720 Wow. 507 00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:45,920 That's something. 508 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:49,400 And it's very interesting to see how these two cases are connected. 509 00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:50,400 Mm-hmm. 510 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,320 Well, I know one day you're going to do Jack the Ripper for us, Beth. 511 00:28:54,320 --> 00:28:56,520 So remember this case. 512 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:58,280 See if we can find that comparison. 513 00:28:58,280 --> 00:28:59,280 I will. 514 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:00,280 Okay. 515 00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:01,680 Well, there you have it. 516 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:08,260 That is the story of Amelia Dyer, which, wow, I've never heard of her before. 517 00:29:08,260 --> 00:29:12,160 So I thought this was a very interesting case to go back that far. 518 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,660 Yes, for sure. 519 00:29:13,660 --> 00:29:15,560 Because I never heard of her neither. 520 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:16,560 Okay. 521 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:17,560 Well, there you have it. 522 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:18,560 That's Amelia Dyer. 523 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:22,080 So Deb, what's our teachable moment for today? 524 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:29,720 Well, I know that background checks were definitely not possible in that day and time period, 525 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,360 but today you can't be too careful. 526 00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:37,600 Newspaper ads have turned into dating websites and social media connections. 527 00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:41,320 And Beth, you know that John and I met the old fashioned way, right? 528 00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:44,320 Is it old fashioned? 529 00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:45,880 No, folks. 530 00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:47,200 John and I met online. 531 00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,200 Yeah, we did. 532 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:49,640 And I'm proud of it. 533 00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,380 You two are just a perfect pair together. 534 00:29:52,380 --> 00:29:53,380 We are. 535 00:29:53,380 --> 00:29:55,000 We have a lot of fun together. 536 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,360 John, if you're listening to this, I love you. 537 00:29:57,360 --> 00:30:03,960 Hey, all kidding aside, spend some time getting to know that person that you meet online and 538 00:30:03,960 --> 00:30:05,440 agree to go out with. 539 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,480 You better believe that I found out as much as I could. 540 00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:13,360 Yeah, John, if you're listening, I found out as much as I could about you before I met 541 00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:14,360 you. 542 00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:15,360 What? 543 00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:16,360 Yep, I sure did. 544 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,680 The internet is my friend. 545 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:22,380 But don't worry what other people are going to think of you. 546 00:30:22,380 --> 00:30:23,920 Do your homework. 547 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:26,280 Your life could depend on it. 548 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:33,800 But like today's case with Amelia Dyer, you can be anybody that you want to be in an ad. 549 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,600 And in today's terms, Beth, do you know what that's called? 550 00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,240 No, but you're going to tell me. 551 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:40,280 I sure am. 552 00:30:40,280 --> 00:30:41,280 It's called catfishing. 553 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:42,840 Have you heard of that? 554 00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,520 Yes, Dr. Phil has catfishing on his show all the time. 555 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:47,520 There we go. 556 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,080 So Amelia Dyer was a catfish. 557 00:30:50,080 --> 00:30:51,080 Okay. 558 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:57,680 Obviously, it's human nature to behave that way and find out as much as you can about 559 00:30:57,680 --> 00:30:59,840 who you're going to meet up with. 560 00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:04,720 Then make sure that they can validate who they are, who they make themselves out to 561 00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:05,720 be. 562 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:06,720 And that's it, Beth. 563 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:07,720 That's my teachable moment. 564 00:31:07,720 --> 00:31:09,520 And that's a great one again. 565 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:11,040 And that's a wrap. 566 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:12,040 That is a wrap. 567 00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,640 Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. 568 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:19,640 Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. 569 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:25,340 Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook, and Pinterest at Dying to be Found. 570 00:31:25,340 --> 00:31:31,220 You can access our website, email, social media, and storyline request form by clicking 571 00:31:31,220 --> 00:31:34,000 on our Linktree account found in our show notes. 572 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,560 If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com slash Dying 573 00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:42,760 to be Found, spelled just like you see it on our logo. 574 00:31:42,760 --> 00:31:47,040 Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing, or if you'd like 575 00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:48,040 a sticker. 576 00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:52,880 With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts. 577 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:54,880 We will talk to you all next week. 578 00:31:54,880 --> 00:32:13,880 Bye.