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Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that

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episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.

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Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.

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Listener discretion is strongly advised.

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Hi everyone, it's Deb. And this is Beth. And we want to welcome you to episode number

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36 of Dying to be Found. As always, we try to bring you episodes that you can relate to.

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So if you have a storyline you would like to hear, be sure to give us a shout out on social media.

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Or better yet, click on our Linktree link in our show notes. Speaking of which, we would like to

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give a shout out today for one of our listeners for filling out that storyline request and giving

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us an idea on what to talk about. Jenny, thanks so much. This one is for you today.

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Hi Jenny, thank you. Today, Beth and I will be talking about the unsolved case of Molly Bish.

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And Beth, I'm going to warn you ahead of time, this is a heartbreaker. Oh dear. And I really

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hope that her family can get closure very, very soon. It looks like authorities are getting close,

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but Beth, we are still decades into Molly's abduction and murder. So hopefully we will

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find closure really, really soon. That's all I have to give you right now. We will certainly

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get into that in just a couple of minutes. But before we do get started, is there anything that

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you want to add? Yes, Christmas. Christmas in, I was going to say Christmas in July, but it's October.

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Well, I sent to a lot of my stamping friends and family and extended family. How many friends do

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you have? That's putting me to shame. I'm making nine masculine cards for Alice coworkers because

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they all deserve a card and a homemade rum cake. Oh, that sounds yummy. It is. So I'm starting on

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making another craft. What kind of craft? Can't tell. Oh, okay. I guess I'm going to have to start

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thinking about Christmas because holy cow, it's a little too soon for me. I like to start thinking

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about that in December. That's too late. Everything's gone by then. I mean, amazon.com. Beth,

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you should know me by now. That's true. I don't do Amazon. I still love going in the stores.

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Oh, that's just too much pressure on me. Well, maybe you can start up card making. Yeah, maybe.

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I'll add that to my list of things I never finish. This podcast is about the only thing I have been

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following through with. Oh, good. I don't want to be here alone. Good one. I have a question for you.

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Shoot. Do you remember that pond that you and I used to go swimming at when we were kids? We

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used to go swimming in the summer and ice skating in the winter. Yes, but today nobody swims there

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anymore. I just drove by it about three weeks ago. It is all overgrown. The wild took over.

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Wow. Do people still go there just to have picnic or anything? It doesn't look like it from

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my vantage point. Oh, that's sad. It's very sad. Well, I brought this up to you because I want you

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to envision back to when we were kids. I remember what it looked like when I was a kid. So I guess

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that's what we're going to have to do today is go along with those similarities. Sure. You might

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hear some similarities as to where Molly Bish went missing as we go along with this case. And

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I will go ahead and just say that Molly Bish was a 16 year old girl who was abducted from her life

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guard job in Warren, Massachusetts. How could you be abducted as a lifeguard? She must not have been

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on duty. Well, I will tell you in just a little while, I think there might be a little bit of

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reasoning behind it. And as we progress, I'm sure you'll understand as I start describing the area

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that she was a lifeguard at. Okay. Or that's why I wanted you to think about where we used to go,

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because it was that type of setting. It wasn't a pool. It was a public swimming area, but it wasn't

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a water park or anything like that. It was simply a swimming pond that anybody could go to. Okay.

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Molly was a 16 year old girl who was abducted from that lifeguard job. And as we will find out

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later, Molly's remains were discovered not far from where she disappeared. The area that Molly

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was abducted from was almost identical to what you and I had gone swimming in, which we're going to

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come around full circle on that. But let me just give you a little bit of Molly's background.

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She was born Molly Ann Bish on August 2nd, 1983 to John and Maggie Bish. And when she was small,

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Molly's family encountered a crime in their own neighborhood while living in Detroit, Michigan,

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which prompted them to pack up the family and move to Warren, Massachusetts with the hopes,

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Beth, of raising their kids in a safer environment. Oh, that is really sad right there. Yeah. After a

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little bit of digging, I discovered that the crime that drove the Bish family away was when one of

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their own neighbors was abducted when walking home from work and was later found murdered.

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Yeah. Well, to give you an example of the type of person that Molly was, I wanted to tell you

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about one time in 1993, Molly would have been somewhere around 10 years old. She had written a

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letter to a family of a little girl whose name was Holly Paranen, who had gone missing and was later

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murdered in Warren, Massachusetts, where they had ended up moving to. Although both Holly and Molly's

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cases were seven years apart and similar in nature, neither of these cases could be connected to one

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another to pinpoint a suspect in Molly's abduction. Like any other teenager, Molly was excited about

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starting her first job as a lifeguard. On June 27th, 2000, Molly's mother, Maddie, dropped her off

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at Coleman's Park shortly before 10 a.m. to begin her eighth day on the job and to give swimming

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lessons. Let me get back to giving you the description of the area where Molly had worked

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as that lifeguard, because you couldn't envision this a moment ago. Coleman's Park was what looked

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like a very small lake, which had a small beachfront. The pond itself was surrounded by trees,

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so the swimming area was very isolated and the tree line was very thick and it backed up

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all the way to the sand on the beach. So basically, Beth, you could be in the water, come up on the

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beach, which was probably 10 feet of sand, and then it directly went into a thick of woods right

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behind where Molly's lifeguard stand would be. Sure as in the wild, secluded. Very secluded. In

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my opinion, anyone could easily lie in wait for an unsuspecting victim and then quickly drag them

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into the brush, never to be seen, you know? Yeah. When her first students of the day arrived for

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their lesson, they noticed that several of Molly's belongings were there, but she was nowhere to be

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found. Well, that's a shame. Yeah. And only three hours after Molly disappeared, Maggie received a

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call from the police, who broke the news that several people reported that there was no lifeguard

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at the pond. That would send the mom into panic. Oh yeah. How horrifying to get a call like that.

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Yes. Maggie went to the park and confirmed that Molly's water bottle, sandals, beach chair,

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towel, whistle, police radio, first aid kit, and a packed lunch were left on the beach.

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So that was around lunchtime, I suppose. Yeah. It's too bad she didn't have that whistle around

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her neck. Oh yes. Never thought of that, but yeah, you're right. In the police radio. As they began

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their investigation, police originally assumed that Molly had either run away or skipped out

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on work to be with her friends because there was no sign of a struggle. Obviously that's the first

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thing that police always think about, right? Yes. Divers were called in to sweep the pond,

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search parties went out into the woods, but unfortunately there was no sign of Molly.

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Well, that's nice that they at least acted on it really quick. Yeah. No downtime there. Absolutely.

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Well, let's rewind to the day before Molly went missing because this is really an important part

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of this case. When Maggie went to drop Molly off for her seventh day of work, she recalls seeing

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a white sedan parked by the pond and just had a gut feeling bath. She was very uncomfortable.

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Listen to your gut folks. Absolutely. Pay attention to your surroundings. Oh yes. And that's good

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because Maggie did that. And her feelings prompted her to follow Molly down to the beach to ensure

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that nothing would happen to her. When she returned to her car, the man was still there.

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Maggie made eye contact with this man and the two of them had a stare down with each other, Beth.

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Could you imagine coming up to a parking lot, having somebody just sitting there lingering and

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staring at him for a minute or two? Gosh, I think I would have ran and got my daughter back and

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got her home. That's pretty ominous. Well, Maggie did continue to hang out in her car until the man

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finally drove away. So he broke eye contact and he was the one to take off. Thank goodness. I don't

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know. I would have reported it that day that there was a stranger lurking. It's hard to say. Yeah,

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that's true. I've come up on people just sitting in parking lots at, I don't know, grocery stores,

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Walmart, wherever. And I mean, I've never had the inkling to ever report them for anything.

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No, I think I mentioned having a man yelling at me, hello, hello, hello from his truck.

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No. Yes. When was this? Gee, about three to four weeks ago. And it scared the living crap out of

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me. Just three or four weeks ago? Yes. And it made me look around my surroundings for the rest of the

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day. And when I was walking into work, I was working three to 11 and walking back to my car.

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And when I said to him, what do you want? He says nothing. I just want to say hi. And he was very

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far away from me. Thank goodness. Isn't that weird? That is weird and random. It is. Just sitting in

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the parking lot, wanting to say hi to passersby. Yeah. Okay. My gut said to park across from him

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because I was ready to pull in the spot beside him. It was just a funny feeling I had. And so you did,

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you parked across from him? Oh, Beth. Wow. No, you did not tell me about that. Holy cow.

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All right. The next day, which was the day that Molly disappeared, Maggie did not see that man

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again in the white car. But later on, witnesses stated that they had seen that man in the same

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parking lot at Coleman's pond and also at a nearby cemetery. That's creepy. Oh yeah. Just sitting in

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a... Okay. I mean, I'm reading way too much into this because I'm a little distraught with what you

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just told me about this guy saying hi to you in a parking lot. The cemetery, by the way, was connected

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to the pond by a walking path through those woods I had told you about. I'm just thinking to myself,

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he could have easily have just parked in the cemetery and come up on that walking path and

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dragged her into those woods. Oh, very good. Park workers who were there to dump fresh sand on the

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beach had told police that they saw that same man in a white car in the parking lot only a few

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minutes before Maggie dropped Molly off for her 10 a.m. shift. And again, this was on June 26th,

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which was the day before Molly went missing. Molly's family, when she did go missing,

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quickly set up a website asking people for information on Molly's disappearance. And they

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were able to send out over 30,000 emails as well. Now, I don't know where they would have gotten these

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email addresses from. I have no idea where they could collect that many emails to shoot out.

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Yeah, that 30,000 is a really large number. It's like sending you and me an email about a missing

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person. A sketch artist made a composite of a man that Maggie had made eye contact with, which took

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about nine hours to complete. And the reason it took so long is because after Maggie finished

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describing the suspect, she asked if the sketch artist could add him smoking a cigarette. Once

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that final detail was complete, Maggie positively identified this man as to whom she had seen the

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day before. Wow, just one little change, eh? Yeah. The man in this composite is described as having

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brown hair, dark eyes, and he was somewhere in his 50s and a heavy smoker. Okay, imagine just a 50

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year old man sitting in a parking lot with his windows down, looking around, smoking heavily.

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Would you not call the police? I don't know. You could think he's waiting for somebody. Oh,

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that's true. All right. On June 9th of 2003, this is where Molly's story comes to an abrupt halt.

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Beth, remember that she was abducted in the year 2000? Yes. And for the next 20 years,

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Molly's case went cold. Mm-hmm. Police exhausted all efforts to find this mystery man, but simply

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could not produce enough evidence to charge anyone for her disappearance. Oh, that's sad.

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Yeah. On June 9th, 2003, Molly's remains were discovered in some woods in Whiskey Hill,

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approximately five miles or eight kilometers from Coleman's pond, along with the blue bathing suit

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that she was wearing the day she disappeared. Her cause of death has never been determined

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other than it's classified as being a homicide. They have no evidence of how she might have died.

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It's not good. Yeah. Well, as we go, Beth, you'll see the direction that her parents are really

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trying to push. As of June 16th now, we are going to fast forward again, because just like when Molly

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first disappeared, police had no luck finding her killer once her remains were discovered in 2003.

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And of course, now we're at least 20 or more years into DNA identification, and science is

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so much more advanced today, wouldn't you say? Mm-hmm. That's too bad. I wish they had something.

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Yeah. So I sit here and wonder how this case could still be unsolved. Oh, yes, most definitely.

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It's too bad they didn't have some of those cigarette butts. Oh, gosh, yes. Oh, Beth, that

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is such a good thought process. Well, you've heard me talk about familial DNA, which is where police

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investigate DNA from family members, right? Yes. In June 2016, authorities took 24 pieces of evidence

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from Molly's case and began running DNA tests. I'm going to assume that the articles they tested

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were likely Molly's bathing suit and some of the items that she had left on the beach that day.

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That sounds logical. Well, I had no idea how long it would take to get DNA results back,

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because about a year later, just in June of 2017, the DNA tests led police to a nearby campground

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where supposedly the white car was seen around the day that Molly had disappeared. Wait, you're saying

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that the same car all those years later? Yeah. What? Guess why they did not find that car.

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Apparently someone had buried it on the campground. That's weird. Right? Who buries a car?

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Police used ground penetrating radar to locate a late model white Buick LaSaber sedan. And long

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story short, police identified a suspect, but were never able to collect enough evidence on him to

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press charges. That's not good. Well, I'm going to come back to that in just a couple of minutes,

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because there is a suspect list and it's pretty lengthy. And as I go through this list, Beth,

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I'm going to give you my personal opinion on some of the resemblances from the composite drawings,

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because you know me, I like to paint a visual for you and our listeners. And we would love to hear

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what our listeners think. So be sure to give us some feedback when I post on our Instagram.

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So let's start with our suspect list. In 2007, a known sex offender by the name of Robert Bernow

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attempted to abduct a jogger just a few miles outside of Warren, Massachusetts. Police feel

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that he matches the description of the composite drawing. And that's all I could really find on

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this suspect, Beth. But take note that Robert was arrested seven years after Molly's disappearance,

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and police just couldn't get enough evidence to charge him in this case. I hate when that happens.

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Well, I mean, if he's innocent, we certainly want to give him that respect, right? Yes. Rodney

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Stranger is the second suspect who lived close to the YMCA where Molly attended her lifeguard

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certification classes back in 2000. He drove a white car and matched the composite drawing.

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I mean, sort of to me, he was a little bit too skinny, Beth, when you're looking at his mugshot,

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he had white hair. And that's opposite of what the composite drawing was. But if he did have

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dark hair at the time of Molly's disappearance, I can somewhat see the resemblance, but not enough

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to positively identify him. Rodney was known to hunt and fish in Warren, Massachusetts.

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He frequented the swimming area at Coleman's Park and liked to hang out in those woods behind the

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pond. Eventually, Rodney moved to Florida shortly after Molly's disappearance. I'm going to say,

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Beth, he was probably under a lot of pressure from that case in the media. For sure. And get this,

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in 2008, Rodney was convicted and sentenced to 25 years in prison for stabbing his girlfriend to

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death. What do you think of that? Oh, that's horrible. So he does have the capability of

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killing. Yeah, he does. Suspect number three is Gerald Badastoni. He was a convicted child

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rapist and resembled the composite according to the police and also frequented Coleman's pond.

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Okay, I saw the mugshot of Gerald and it shows that he's got blonde hair. So the hair to me was

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a little bit too light in comparison to that composite drawing. The sketch out there on the

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internet looks more like somebody who has an Italian or Greek features. You know how they have

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the dark hair and olive skin? Yes. That's what was in the composite drawing. But in this sense,

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Gerald to me does not look enough like the suspect. He, I mean, just basically looks like a creep.

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Gerald is connected to another case in 1993 for a 10 year old girl named Holly Perenin, who

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disappeared on the way to her grandmother's house and get this Beth to see a new litter of puppies.

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Holly's remains were found two and a half months later in Brimwood, which was just about an hour

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away from Warren. And in 2011, Gerald was found guilty and sent to prison on four counts of rape

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that occurred back in the early nineties. Wow. He attempted suicide in 2011 after learning that he

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was added to the suspect list in Molly's murder and eventually died in November of 2014 without

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ever being charged in this case. Now the last suspect is Francis Frank Sumner, senior. Frank's

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mugshot to me looks a lot like the composite drawing. He has that dark slicked back hair,

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like in the picture, but I'd certainly encourage you, Beth, and our listeners to go look at the

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suspect's photos and pretty much decide for yourself. I've made my decisions on this, but

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you all go decide for yourself. Frank owned a white sedan similar to the car that witnesses

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reported seeing the day that Molly disappeared. One witness came forward to tell the police that

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Frank had told them something bad had happened when he was in the woods, but he never would

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elaborate on what. During this conversation, the eyewitness noted that Frank had scratches on his

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face. That's horrible. That definitely sounds like he could be guilty if he's the one. He's at the

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top of the suspect list. Yeah. I would assume just from what I saw, the resemblance is there

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and certainly the eyewitness accounts and scratches on his face. I mean, he would have a

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lot of explaining to do. Book him, Dano. Police did investigate Frank pretty heavily over the years

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and discovered that he was a level two sex offender who was convicted of kidnapping and rape in 1981.

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Geez. Yeah. I had to go look at this, Beth, because just to again, give you and our listeners an

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indication, according to massachusetts.gov, a level one sex offender would have a low risk of

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reoffending and pose a low threat to the public. Level two would be a moderate degree of reoffending

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and posing a danger to the public, while level three is a high risk in both of those categories.

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Frank was classified as a level two, a moderate risk. I wonder why it's only moderate. I know.

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I'd like to know how they classify these people, but I'm sure the experts have some kind of scale,

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whatever they use. Yeah. I'm not an expert here, but apparently Frank was never placed on the sex

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offender registry. So this was a critical piece of information that the police was not aware of

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during the early days of their investigation. Well, with his history, he certainly should be

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on the list. Oh yeah. Somebody just overlooked it. And I don't know how that happens either.

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Well, Frank was paroled in 1998 and lived close to Warren during the time of Molly's disappearance.

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As I said, he resembled that composite drawing, but was found deceased in his home on May 4th,

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2016 at the age of 71 without ever being charged in Molly's disappearance. Remember police found

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a white sedan in the campgrounds. Remember how I said that it had been buried. They found that car

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a year after Frank passed away. My gosh, a whole year. Yep. Obviously they couldn't follow up on

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that. No. But last year in 2021, all that DNA came to fruition because police once again began

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looking at Frank as the main suspect in this case after they took a DNA sample from his son, Frank

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Jr. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I guess where Frank was located at. Where? He was in an Ohio prison

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for aggravated robbery. Get out. Yep. And I'm not sure how that familial DNA collection works, Beth,

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but did old Jr. willingly give it up? Or I would say they probably collected it from one of his own

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crime scenes where police were probably looking and collecting DNA evidence. Sure. Bad news though,

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just this past summer, the DNA testing came back on Jr. and it was not a match to his father.

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Really? Yep. So again, they have more dead ends. They do. I hate dead ends. You know that. Oh yeah,

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absolutely. And I wonder too, with so much evidence and eyewitnesses in the case, plus DNA. I mean,

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how are they not able to close this case already? Exactly. This news obviously devastated the Bish

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family. They have expressed their disappointment and they remained hopeful after hearing that police

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are still following up with at least 100 new leads in 2022. Gee, that's a lot. I know. And for them

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to get that much information this year, that's phenomenal. It is. It's nice that the people are

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keeping the case on top. Oh yeah. In 2021, the Bishes were very vocal with their support of the

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police. This was around the time that they began testing that familial DNA. Wonderful. And the

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family acknowledged how authorities are doing everything they can to bring Molly's case to a

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close. And I agree with that because everything that I have found that shows that this case is

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still highly active. Great. However, this year, the family began expressing some frustration on how

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this case was handled back in the beginning days and weeks that Molly had disappeared. Heather Bish,

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who is Molly's sister, stated that the crime scene was never preserved the day that Molly

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disappeared. She also stated that police zoned in on Molly's boyfriend and seemed to be stuck on him

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a little bit too long. I could not find any articles on that. That was just coming straight

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from her recollections. Okay. And Heather feels that she and her family experience ongoing trauma.

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And I quote, knowing that there are so many, many abusive men and they exist in our society and

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they're fixing our cars and they're delivering our mail and they're coaching our kids' soccer teams,

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unquote. Before Molly disappeared, Heather admits that she had a mindset that there was just one bad

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person going around doing bad things. I agree with that, Beth. We can talk about these cases all day

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long. We are not in that situation. And until we are, there's got to be just a disconnect in a

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certain extent. I mean, we've got listeners who listen to true crime as much as we do, but you

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have to admit, or at least I do, there's at least some level of disconnect until you are actually

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going through it. Just two weeks ago, and I'm talking about two weeks ago in September of 2022,

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the Bish family asked authorities to assign new investigators to this case because they're

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beginning to lose faith in the district attorney's office. I agree with that somewhat because I think

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sometimes, Beth, especially in cold cases, fresh eyes sometimes uncover new information, don't you

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think? Oh, for sure. I totally agree with you. Heather Bish wrote a formal letter requesting that

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the case be moved from Worchester County to Hampton County because she feels that she can access more

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resources from trained professionals who can bring this case to a close. And that kind of goes back

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to the fresh eyes. Yes, I totally agree with that, the fresh eyes. And on the other hand, the flip

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side is these investigators are working so hard and keeping this case alive that it does seem to

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be a shame that the Bish family is starting to lose their confidence in the investigators. Yes,

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well said. Heather states that Worchester County officials do not have the technology, nor do they

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have what's needed to close the case. Let me give you an example. She's really pushing that DNA

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testing and is trying to bring in renowned DNA experts to help solve this case. So far, however,

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Heather is hitting a brick wall. I can imagine it's not going to be easy. And I understand her

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frustration because we all grieve in our own ways. But this type of grief to me is very, very

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unimaginable. Right. And I'll say though, that in a public statement, the Worchester District Attorney's

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office did say that they're still making headway in Molly's case. And while they're cognizant of

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keeping family members informed on any updates, they're still limited as to what information they

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can disclose to the victim's family members. And I think that's fair. You can't tell family members

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absolutely everything. You have to keep things close to the chest, especially if the investigation

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is still open. Yeah. There's just too many what ifs. And I understand they have to keep information

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to themselves. And on the flip side of that, giving the Bish family as much as they can,

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I think they're doing a decent job. In every interview that I looked at before we started

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recording today, Beth, you can tell that Molly's family just needs to be informed. And I think

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that's US

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and is very willing to assist the police

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in their DNA research.

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I don't know what type of doctorate that she has,

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but they told her they can't give her access

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to the case file, and I get that.

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If I had the means and capacity,

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I personally would help with this case if I could.

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I would absolutely volunteer to help any way I can.

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You're a good soul.

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Oh, well you are too, Beth.

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Now, Heather currently has a TikTok feed

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to keep this case alive,

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and I actually went to go look this up

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because I wanted to see what she is doing on TikTok.

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You can find her at HeatherBish,

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and when I looked this up,

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she is doing a really good job posting lots of stories

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about her sister just to keep the case alive.

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So go check that out if you have a chance.

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I'm gonna do that right now.

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Well, not right now.

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We still have to finish recording, but do that after.

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Okay.

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Molly's parents, John and Maggie,

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organized the MollyBish Foundation

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and opened a Life Guard Center,

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and I say guard in quotes,

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which brings awareness to children and family safety

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and abductions through legislative reform.

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And the cool thing about this foundation

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is that they promote that familial DNA searches

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to assist law enforcement in their investigations.

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So that makes sense as to why

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they're really pushing the DNA.

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00:32:05,580 --> 00:32:07,180
Mm-hmm, that's wonderful.

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Yeah.

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I'm gonna add a link to our show notes

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for our listeners to visit the website.

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You'll find a six-minute video

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from several of Molly's family members

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who talk directly to whoever abducted Molly that day,

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and they also give some really beautiful stories about Molly.

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I highly encourage you all to go look at that.

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There is currently a bill actively filed

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on MollyBish's behalf that would allow police

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to use familial DNA to expand their search in cold cases.

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However, this law is yet to be passed

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due to the questions regarding people's privacy.

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I understand that.

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It is under review with the U.S. Department of Public Safety

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and Homeland Safety Committees.

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As of today, Molly would be 39 years old.

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This case is still open and active

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with a $100,000 reward for any information

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leading to an arrest.

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So to our listeners, if you have any information

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00:33:08,060 --> 00:33:10,580
about Molly's murder, you can contact

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the Massachusetts State Police tip line

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at 508-453-7575.

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And Beth, that is where we stand

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with the MollyBish case today.

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00:33:23,380 --> 00:33:25,520
Well, I'm really glad that this was brought

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to the limelight once again so that listeners

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may know more or hear something or rumors.

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Everything can be a tip.

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Absolutely, and nothing is too small.

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Even if you think it's the minute amount,

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and I feel like Heather may have said that

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00:33:42,120 --> 00:33:46,640
in one of her interviews, even if it's just a small tidbit

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00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,220
that you don't think is relevant, call it in.

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Yes.

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00:33:50,060 --> 00:33:53,020
So Deb, what's your teachable moment for today?

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Oh, this one was a hard one today, Beth.

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I think my takeaway from this case

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is that you have to stand up for what you believe in.

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It's obvious to me that the Bish family

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has a deep love for each other,

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and they will go to no ends to bring justice to Molly.

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When you feel passionate about something,

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Beth, you just need to speak up.

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People tend to talk the big talk sometimes

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and voice their opinions.

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We all know we have opinions, right?

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Oh, for sure.

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But when do they really take action?

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That's the big question.

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The Bish family is a perfect example

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of stepping up for what they believe in,

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and even if they don't see the changes that they want today,

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I can see it happening one day.

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I say Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are laws.

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Sometimes when you're passionate about something

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00:34:43,540 --> 00:34:47,820
and act on it, that speaks volumes over just words

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00:34:47,820 --> 00:34:49,260
or just talking about it.

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So that's my teachable moment.

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00:34:50,740 --> 00:34:51,700
Great.

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You always have excellent teachable moments for us,

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and I like how they're always relevant

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to the cases that we're talking about.

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00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:01,860
Yeah, I've been doing this for a little while, Beth.

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We're on episode 36, so I think we got our groove.

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I think we do.

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And that's a wrap.

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That is a wrap.

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00:35:09,980 --> 00:35:12,420
Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found.

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["Dying to Be Found"]