Hi everyone, this is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that
episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts and crimes against animals and or humankind.
Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast.
Listener discretion is strongly advised.
Hi everyone, it's Deb. And this is Beth. And we want to welcome you to episode number
36 of Dying to be Found. As always, we try to bring you episodes that you can relate to.
So if you have a storyline you would like to hear, be sure to give us a shout out on social media.
Or better yet, click on our Linktree link in our show notes. Speaking of which, we would like to
give a shout out today for one of our listeners for filling out that storyline request and giving
us an idea on what to talk about. Jenny, thanks so much. This one is for you today.
Hi Jenny, thank you. Today, Beth and I will be talking about the unsolved case of Molly Bish.
And Beth, I'm going to warn you ahead of time, this is a heartbreaker. Oh dear. And I really
hope that her family can get closure very, very soon. It looks like authorities are getting close,
but Beth, we are still decades into Molly's abduction and murder. So hopefully we will
find closure really, really soon. That's all I have to give you right now. We will certainly
get into that in just a couple of minutes. But before we do get started, is there anything that
you want to add? Yes, Christmas. Christmas in, I was going to say Christmas in July, but it's October.
Well, I sent to a lot of my stamping friends and family and extended family. How many friends do
you have? That's putting me to shame. I'm making nine masculine cards for Alice coworkers because
they all deserve a card and a homemade rum cake. Oh, that sounds yummy. It is. So I'm starting on
making another craft. What kind of craft? Can't tell. Oh, okay. I guess I'm going to have to start
thinking about Christmas because holy cow, it's a little too soon for me. I like to start thinking
about that in December. That's too late. Everything's gone by then. I mean, amazon.com. Beth,
you should know me by now. That's true. I don't do Amazon. I still love going in the stores.
Oh, that's just too much pressure on me. Well, maybe you can start up card making. Yeah, maybe.
I'll add that to my list of things I never finish. This podcast is about the only thing I have been
following through with. Oh, good. I don't want to be here alone. Good one. I have a question for you.
Shoot. Do you remember that pond that you and I used to go swimming at when we were kids? We
used to go swimming in the summer and ice skating in the winter. Yes, but today nobody swims there
anymore. I just drove by it about three weeks ago. It is all overgrown. The wild took over.
Wow. Do people still go there just to have picnic or anything? It doesn't look like it from
my vantage point. Oh, that's sad. It's very sad. Well, I brought this up to you because I want you
to envision back to when we were kids. I remember what it looked like when I was a kid. So I guess
that's what we're going to have to do today is go along with those similarities. Sure. You might
hear some similarities as to where Molly Bish went missing as we go along with this case. And
I will go ahead and just say that Molly Bish was a 16 year old girl who was abducted from her life
guard job in Warren, Massachusetts. How could you be abducted as a lifeguard? She must not have been
on duty. Well, I will tell you in just a little while, I think there might be a little bit of
reasoning behind it. And as we progress, I'm sure you'll understand as I start describing the area
that she was a lifeguard at. Okay. Or that's why I wanted you to think about where we used to go,
because it was that type of setting. It wasn't a pool. It was a public swimming area, but it wasn't
a water park or anything like that. It was simply a swimming pond that anybody could go to. Okay.
Molly was a 16 year old girl who was abducted from that lifeguard job. And as we will find out
later, Molly's remains were discovered not far from where she disappeared. The area that Molly
was abducted from was almost identical to what you and I had gone swimming in, which we're going to
come around full circle on that. But let me just give you a little bit of Molly's background.
She was born Molly Ann Bish on August 2nd, 1983 to John and Maggie Bish. And when she was small,
Molly's family encountered a crime in their own neighborhood while living in Detroit, Michigan,
which prompted them to pack up the family and move to Warren, Massachusetts with the hopes,
Beth, of raising their kids in a safer environment. Oh, that is really sad right there. Yeah. After a
little bit of digging, I discovered that the crime that drove the Bish family away was when one of
their own neighbors was abducted when walking home from work and was later found murdered.
Yeah. Well, to give you an example of the type of person that Molly was, I wanted to tell you
about one time in 1993, Molly would have been somewhere around 10 years old. She had written a
letter to a family of a little girl whose name was Holly Paranen, who had gone missing and was later
murdered in Warren, Massachusetts, where they had ended up moving to. Although both Holly and Molly's
cases were seven years apart and similar in nature, neither of these cases could be connected to one
another to pinpoint a suspect in Molly's abduction. Like any other teenager, Molly was excited about
starting her first job as a lifeguard. On June 27th, 2000, Molly's mother, Maddie, dropped her off
at Coleman's Park shortly before 10 a.m. to begin her eighth day on the job and to give swimming
lessons. Let me get back to giving you the description of the area where Molly had worked
as that lifeguard, because you couldn't envision this a moment ago. Coleman's Park was what looked
like a very small lake, which had a small beachfront. The pond itself was surrounded by trees,
so the swimming area was very isolated and the tree line was very thick and it backed up
all the way to the sand on the beach. So basically, Beth, you could be in the water, come up on the
beach, which was probably 10 feet of sand, and then it directly went into a thick of woods right
behind where Molly's lifeguard stand would be. Sure as in the wild, secluded. Very secluded. In
my opinion, anyone could easily lie in wait for an unsuspecting victim and then quickly drag them
into the brush, never to be seen, you know? Yeah. When her first students of the day arrived for
their lesson, they noticed that several of Molly's belongings were there, but she was nowhere to be
found. Well, that's a shame. Yeah. And only three hours after Molly disappeared, Maggie received a
call from the police, who broke the news that several people reported that there was no lifeguard
at the pond. That would send the mom into panic. Oh yeah. How horrifying to get a call like that.
Yes. Maggie went to the park and confirmed that Molly's water bottle, sandals, beach chair,
towel, whistle, police radio, first aid kit, and a packed lunch were left on the beach.
So that was around lunchtime, I suppose. Yeah. It's too bad she didn't have that whistle around
her neck. Oh yes. Never thought of that, but yeah, you're right. In the police radio. As they began
their investigation, police originally assumed that Molly had either run away or skipped out
on work to be with her friends because there was no sign of a struggle. Obviously that's the first
thing that police always think about, right? Yes. Divers were called in to sweep the pond,
search parties went out into the woods, but unfortunately there was no sign of Molly.
Well, that's nice that they at least acted on it really quick. Yeah. No downtime there. Absolutely.
Well, let's rewind to the day before Molly went missing because this is really an important part
of this case. When Maggie went to drop Molly off for her seventh day of work, she recalls seeing
a white sedan parked by the pond and just had a gut feeling bath. She was very uncomfortable.
Listen to your gut folks. Absolutely. Pay attention to your surroundings. Oh yes. And that's good
because Maggie did that. And her feelings prompted her to follow Molly down to the beach to ensure
that nothing would happen to her. When she returned to her car, the man was still there.
Maggie made eye contact with this man and the two of them had a stare down with each other, Beth.
Could you imagine coming up to a parking lot, having somebody just sitting there lingering and
staring at him for a minute or two? Gosh, I think I would have ran and got my daughter back and
got her home. That's pretty ominous. Well, Maggie did continue to hang out in her car until the man
finally drove away. So he broke eye contact and he was the one to take off. Thank goodness. I don't
know. I would have reported it that day that there was a stranger lurking. It's hard to say. Yeah,
that's true. I've come up on people just sitting in parking lots at, I don't know, grocery stores,
Walmart, wherever. And I mean, I've never had the inkling to ever report them for anything.
No, I think I mentioned having a man yelling at me, hello, hello, hello from his truck.
No. Yes. When was this? Gee, about three to four weeks ago. And it scared the living crap out of
me. Just three or four weeks ago? Yes. And it made me look around my surroundings for the rest of the
day. And when I was walking into work, I was working three to 11 and walking back to my car.
And when I said to him, what do you want? He says nothing. I just want to say hi. And he was very
far away from me. Thank goodness. Isn't that weird? That is weird and random. It is. Just sitting in
the parking lot, wanting to say hi to passersby. Yeah. Okay. My gut said to park across from him
because I was ready to pull in the spot beside him. It was just a funny feeling I had. And so you did,
you parked across from him? Oh, Beth. Wow. No, you did not tell me about that. Holy cow.
All right. The next day, which was the day that Molly disappeared, Maggie did not see that man
again in the white car. But later on, witnesses stated that they had seen that man in the same
parking lot at Coleman's pond and also at a nearby cemetery. That's creepy. Oh yeah. Just sitting in
a... Okay. I mean, I'm reading way too much into this because I'm a little distraught with what you
just told me about this guy saying hi to you in a parking lot. The cemetery, by the way, was connected
to the pond by a walking path through those woods I had told you about. I'm just thinking to myself,
he could have easily have just parked in the cemetery and come up on that walking path and
dragged her into those woods. Oh, very good. Park workers who were there to dump fresh sand on the
beach had told police that they saw that same man in a white car in the parking lot only a few
minutes before Maggie dropped Molly off for her 10 a.m. shift. And again, this was on June 26th,
which was the day before Molly went missing. Molly's family, when she did go missing,
quickly set up a website asking people for information on Molly's disappearance. And they
were able to send out over 30,000 emails as well. Now, I don't know where they would have gotten these
email addresses from. I have no idea where they could collect that many emails to shoot out.
Yeah, that 30,000 is a really large number. It's like sending you and me an email about a missing
person. A sketch artist made a composite of a man that Maggie had made eye contact with, which took
about nine hours to complete. And the reason it took so long is because after Maggie finished
describing the suspect, she asked if the sketch artist could add him smoking a cigarette. Once
that final detail was complete, Maggie positively identified this man as to whom she had seen the
day before. Wow, just one little change, eh? Yeah. The man in this composite is described as having
brown hair, dark eyes, and he was somewhere in his 50s and a heavy smoker. Okay, imagine just a 50
year old man sitting in a parking lot with his windows down, looking around, smoking heavily.
Would you not call the police? I don't know. You could think he's waiting for somebody. Oh,
that's true. All right. On June 9th of 2003, this is where Molly's story comes to an abrupt halt.
Beth, remember that she was abducted in the year 2000? Yes. And for the next 20 years,
Molly's case went cold. Mm-hmm. Police exhausted all efforts to find this mystery man, but simply
could not produce enough evidence to charge anyone for her disappearance. Oh, that's sad.
Yeah. On June 9th, 2003, Molly's remains were discovered in some woods in Whiskey Hill,
approximately five miles or eight kilometers from Coleman's pond, along with the blue bathing suit
that she was wearing the day she disappeared. Her cause of death has never been determined
other than it's classified as being a homicide. They have no evidence of how she might have died.
It's not good. Yeah. Well, as we go, Beth, you'll see the direction that her parents are really
trying to push. As of June 16th now, we are going to fast forward again, because just like when Molly
first disappeared, police had no luck finding her killer once her remains were discovered in 2003.
And of course, now we're at least 20 or more years into DNA identification, and science is
so much more advanced today, wouldn't you say? Mm-hmm. That's too bad. I wish they had something.
Yeah. So I sit here and wonder how this case could still be unsolved. Oh, yes, most definitely.
It's too bad they didn't have some of those cigarette butts. Oh, gosh, yes. Oh, Beth, that
is such a good thought process. Well, you've heard me talk about familial DNA, which is where police
investigate DNA from family members, right? Yes. In June 2016, authorities took 24 pieces of evidence
from Molly's case and began running DNA tests. I'm going to assume that the articles they tested
were likely Molly's bathing suit and some of the items that she had left on the beach that day.
That sounds logical. Well, I had no idea how long it would take to get DNA results back,
because about a year later, just in June of 2017, the DNA tests led police to a nearby campground
where supposedly the white car was seen around the day that Molly had disappeared. Wait, you're saying
that the same car all those years later? Yeah. What? Guess why they did not find that car.
Apparently someone had buried it on the campground. That's weird. Right? Who buries a car?
Police used ground penetrating radar to locate a late model white Buick LaSaber sedan. And long
story short, police identified a suspect, but were never able to collect enough evidence on him to
press charges. That's not good. Well, I'm going to come back to that in just a couple of minutes,
because there is a suspect list and it's pretty lengthy. And as I go through this list, Beth,
I'm going to give you my personal opinion on some of the resemblances from the composite drawings,
because you know me, I like to paint a visual for you and our listeners. And we would love to hear
what our listeners think. So be sure to give us some feedback when I post on our Instagram.
So let's start with our suspect list. In 2007, a known sex offender by the name of Robert Bernow
attempted to abduct a jogger just a few miles outside of Warren, Massachusetts. Police feel
that he matches the description of the composite drawing. And that's all I could really find on
this suspect, Beth. But take note that Robert was arrested seven years after Molly's disappearance,
and police just couldn't get enough evidence to charge him in this case. I hate when that happens.
Well, I mean, if he's innocent, we certainly want to give him that respect, right? Yes. Rodney
Stranger is the second suspect who lived close to the YMCA where Molly attended her lifeguard
certification classes back in 2000. He drove a white car and matched the composite drawing.
I mean, sort of to me, he was a little bit too skinny, Beth, when you're looking at his mugshot,
he had white hair. And that's opposite of what the composite drawing was. But if he did have
dark hair at the time of Molly's disappearance, I can somewhat see the resemblance, but not enough
to positively identify him. Rodney was known to hunt and fish in Warren, Massachusetts.
He frequented the swimming area at Coleman's Park and liked to hang out in those woods behind the
pond. Eventually, Rodney moved to Florida shortly after Molly's disappearance. I'm going to say,
Beth, he was probably under a lot of pressure from that case in the media. For sure. And get this,
in 2008, Rodney was convicted and sentenced to 25 years in prison for stabbing his girlfriend to
death. What do you think of that? Oh, that's horrible. So he does have the capability of
killing. Yeah, he does. Suspect number three is Gerald Badastoni. He was a convicted child
rapist and resembled the composite according to the police and also frequented Coleman's pond.
Okay, I saw the mugshot of Gerald and it shows that he's got blonde hair. So the hair to me was
a little bit too light in comparison to that composite drawing. The sketch out there on the
internet looks more like somebody who has an Italian or Greek features. You know how they have
the dark hair and olive skin? Yes. That's what was in the composite drawing. But in this sense,
Gerald to me does not look enough like the suspect. He, I mean, just basically looks like a creep.
Gerald is connected to another case in 1993 for a 10 year old girl named Holly Perenin, who
disappeared on the way to her grandmother's house and get this Beth to see a new litter of puppies.
Holly's remains were found two and a half months later in Brimwood, which was just about an hour
away from Warren. And in 2011, Gerald was found guilty and sent to prison on four counts of rape
that occurred back in the early nineties. Wow. He attempted suicide in 2011 after learning that he
was added to the suspect list in Molly's murder and eventually died in November of 2014 without
ever being charged in this case. Now the last suspect is Francis Frank Sumner, senior. Frank's
mugshot to me looks a lot like the composite drawing. He has that dark slicked back hair,
like in the picture, but I'd certainly encourage you, Beth, and our listeners to go look at the
suspect's photos and pretty much decide for yourself. I've made my decisions on this, but
you all go decide for yourself. Frank owned a white sedan similar to the car that witnesses
reported seeing the day that Molly disappeared. One witness came forward to tell the police that
Frank had told them something bad had happened when he was in the woods, but he never would
elaborate on what. During this conversation, the eyewitness noted that Frank had scratches on his
face. That's horrible. That definitely sounds like he could be guilty if he's the one. He's at the
top of the suspect list. Yeah. I would assume just from what I saw, the resemblance is there
and certainly the eyewitness accounts and scratches on his face. I mean, he would have a
lot of explaining to do. Book him, Dano. Police did investigate Frank pretty heavily over the years
and discovered that he was a level two sex offender who was convicted of kidnapping and rape in 1981.
Geez. Yeah. I had to go look at this, Beth, because just to again, give you and our listeners an
indication, according to massachusetts.gov, a level one sex offender would have a low risk of
reoffending and pose a low threat to the public. Level two would be a moderate degree of reoffending
and posing a danger to the public, while level three is a high risk in both of those categories.
Frank was classified as a level two, a moderate risk. I wonder why it's only moderate. I know.
I'd like to know how they classify these people, but I'm sure the experts have some kind of scale,
whatever they use. Yeah. I'm not an expert here, but apparently Frank was never placed on the sex
offender registry. So this was a critical piece of information that the police was not aware of
during the early days of their investigation. Well, with his history, he certainly should be
on the list. Oh yeah. Somebody just overlooked it. And I don't know how that happens either.
Well, Frank was paroled in 1998 and lived close to Warren during the time of Molly's disappearance.
As I said, he resembled that composite drawing, but was found deceased in his home on May 4th,
2016 at the age of 71 without ever being charged in Molly's disappearance. Remember police found
a white sedan in the campgrounds. Remember how I said that it had been buried. They found that car
a year after Frank passed away. My gosh, a whole year. Yep. Obviously they couldn't follow up on
that. No. But last year in 2021, all that DNA came to fruition because police once again began
looking at Frank as the main suspect in this case after they took a DNA sample from his son, Frank
Jr. That's pretty cool. Yeah. I guess where Frank was located at. Where? He was in an Ohio prison
for aggravated robbery. Get out. Yep. And I'm not sure how that familial DNA collection works, Beth,
but did old Jr. willingly give it up? Or I would say they probably collected it from one of his own
crime scenes where police were probably looking and collecting DNA evidence. Sure. Bad news though,
just this past summer, the DNA testing came back on Jr. and it was not a match to his father.
Really? Yep. So again, they have more dead ends. They do. I hate dead ends. You know that. Oh yeah,
absolutely. And I wonder too, with so much evidence and eyewitnesses in the case, plus DNA. I mean,
how are they not able to close this case already? Exactly. This news obviously devastated the Bish
family. They have expressed their disappointment and they remained hopeful after hearing that police
are still following up with at least 100 new leads in 2022. Gee, that's a lot. I know. And for them
to get that much information this year, that's phenomenal. It is. It's nice that the people are
keeping the case on top. Oh yeah. In 2021, the Bishes were very vocal with their support of the
police. This was around the time that they began testing that familial DNA. Wonderful. And the
family acknowledged how authorities are doing everything they can to bring Molly's case to a
close. And I agree with that because everything that I have found that shows that this case is
still highly active. Great. However, this year, the family began expressing some frustration on how
this case was handled back in the beginning days and weeks that Molly had disappeared. Heather Bish,
who is Molly's sister, stated that the crime scene was never preserved the day that Molly
disappeared. She also stated that police zoned in on Molly's boyfriend and seemed to be stuck on him
a little bit too long. I could not find any articles on that. That was just coming straight
from her recollections. Okay. And Heather feels that she and her family experience ongoing trauma.
And I quote, knowing that there are so many, many abusive men and they exist in our society and
they're fixing our cars and they're delivering our mail and they're coaching our kids' soccer teams,
unquote. Before Molly disappeared, Heather admits that she had a mindset that there was just one bad
person going around doing bad things. I agree with that, Beth. We can talk about these cases all day
long. We are not in that situation. And until we are, there's got to be just a disconnect in a
certain extent. I mean, we've got listeners who listen to true crime as much as we do, but you
have to admit, or at least I do, there's at least some level of disconnect until you are actually
going through it. Just two weeks ago, and I'm talking about two weeks ago in September of 2022,
the Bish family asked authorities to assign new investigators to this case because they're
beginning to lose faith in the district attorney's office. I agree with that somewhat because I think
sometimes, Beth, especially in cold cases, fresh eyes sometimes uncover new information, don't you
think? Oh, for sure. I totally agree with you. Heather Bish wrote a formal letter requesting that
the case be moved from Worchester County to Hampton County because she feels that she can access more
resources from trained professionals who can bring this case to a close. And that kind of goes back
to the fresh eyes. Yes, I totally agree with that, the fresh eyes. And on the other hand, the flip
side is these investigators are working so hard and keeping this case alive that it does seem to
be a shame that the Bish family is starting to lose their confidence in the investigators. Yes,
well said. Heather states that Worchester County officials do not have the technology, nor do they
have what's needed to close the case. Let me give you an example. She's really pushing that DNA
testing and is trying to bring in renowned DNA experts to help solve this case. So far, however,
Heather is hitting a brick wall. I can imagine it's not going to be easy. And I understand her
frustration because we all grieve in our own ways. But this type of grief to me is very, very
unimaginable. Right. And I'll say though, that in a public statement, the Worchester District Attorney's
office did say that they're still making headway in Molly's case. And while they're cognizant of
keeping family members informed on any updates, they're still limited as to what information they
can disclose to the victim's family members. And I think that's fair. You can't tell family members
absolutely everything. You have to keep things close to the chest, especially if the investigation
is still open. Yeah. There's just too many what ifs. And I understand they have to keep information
to themselves. And on the flip side of that, giving the Bish family as much as they can,
I think they're doing a decent job. In every interview that I looked at before we started
recording today, Beth, you can tell that Molly's family just needs to be informed. And I think
that's US
and is very willing to assist the police
in their DNA research.
I don't know what type of doctorate that she has,
but they told her they can't give her access
to the case file, and I get that.
If I had the means and capacity,
I personally would help with this case if I could.
I would absolutely volunteer to help any way I can.
You're a good soul.
Oh, well you are too, Beth.
Now, Heather currently has a TikTok feed
to keep this case alive,
and I actually went to go look this up
because I wanted to see what she is doing on TikTok.
You can find her at HeatherBish,
and when I looked this up,
she is doing a really good job posting lots of stories
about her sister just to keep the case alive.
So go check that out if you have a chance.
I'm gonna do that right now.
Well, not right now.
We still have to finish recording, but do that after.
Okay.
Molly's parents, John and Maggie,
organized the MollyBish Foundation
and opened a Life Guard Center,
and I say guard in quotes,
which brings awareness to children and family safety
and abductions through legislative reform.
And the cool thing about this foundation
is that they promote that familial DNA searches
to assist law enforcement in their investigations.
So that makes sense as to why
they're really pushing the DNA.
Mm-hmm, that's wonderful.
Yeah.
I'm gonna add a link to our show notes
for our listeners to visit the website.
You'll find a six-minute video
from several of Molly's family members
who talk directly to whoever abducted Molly that day,
and they also give some really beautiful stories about Molly.
I highly encourage you all to go look at that.
There is currently a bill actively filed
on MollyBish's behalf that would allow police
to use familial DNA to expand their search in cold cases.
However, this law is yet to be passed
due to the questions regarding people's privacy.
I understand that.
It is under review with the U.S. Department of Public Safety
and Homeland Safety Committees.
As of today, Molly would be 39 years old.
This case is still open and active
with a $100,000 reward for any information
leading to an arrest.
So to our listeners, if you have any information
about Molly's murder, you can contact
the Massachusetts State Police tip line
at 508-453-7575.
And Beth, that is where we stand
with the MollyBish case today.
Well, I'm really glad that this was brought
to the limelight once again so that listeners
may know more or hear something or rumors.
Everything can be a tip.
Absolutely, and nothing is too small.
Even if you think it's the minute amount,
and I feel like Heather may have said that
in one of her interviews, even if it's just a small tidbit
that you don't think is relevant, call it in.
Yes.
So Deb, what's your teachable moment for today?
Oh, this one was a hard one today, Beth.
I think my takeaway from this case
is that you have to stand up for what you believe in.
It's obvious to me that the Bish family
has a deep love for each other,
and they will go to no ends to bring justice to Molly.
When you feel passionate about something,
Beth, you just need to speak up.
People tend to talk the big talk sometimes
and voice their opinions.
We all know we have opinions, right?
Oh, for sure.
But when do they really take action?
That's the big question.
The Bish family is a perfect example
of stepping up for what they believe in,
and even if they don't see the changes that they want today,
I can see it happening one day.
I say Rome wasn't built in a day, and neither are laws.
Sometimes when you're passionate about something
and act on it, that speaks volumes over just words
or just talking about it.
So that's my teachable moment.
Great.
You always have excellent teachable moments for us,
and I like how they're always relevant
to the cases that we're talking about.
Yeah, I've been doing this for a little while, Beth.
We're on episode 36, so I think we got our groove.
I think we do.
And that's a wrap.
That is a wrap.
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