SPEAKERS Deb, Beth Deb 00:02 Hi everyone. This is Deb from Dying to be Found. Before we get started, I just wanted to say that episodes contain disturbing discussions on harmful acts in crimes against animals and or humankind. Recordings are not intended for young or sensitive audiences due to the content nature of this podcast. Listener discretion is strongly advised. You're all giggly today. Beth 00:28 I am because I had a great day. Deb 00:30 Goodie, are you going to tell us about it? Beth 00:31 Well, after you introduce us. Deb 00:34 Okay. Hi, everyone. This is Deb. Beth 00:38 And I'm Beth. Deb 00:39 As always, we appreciate you joining us. So thanks so much for being here today. If you have a storyline you would like to hear look at our show notes to view our link tree, where you can view our website, social media, and even to place a storyline request. And Beth, I'm going to tell you the requests are starting to roll in. Beth 00:59 Nice. Deb 01:00 Yeah, absolutely. To our listeners, you should be hearing those in just a couple of weeks. We absolutely appreciate your feedback. So keep those requests coming. As usual. We're going to check in with Beth How are you today, Bethie boo? Beth 01:14 Oh, great. I'm having a great day. And that's why I'm so smiley. I've spent the day in my art room, I looked over at a chair that I'm painting. So, after I was done a little bit with my cardmaking I took my chair out and sanded it all after the first coat. Deb 01:31 Refinishing furniture. Beth 01:32 Yeah, I guess so. Deb 01:33 I can't wait to see it because you're so artistic. Beth 01:36 Thank you. I found a Mandela online from like a coloring page. Yeah, you can just Google coloring pages and you can print out pages to color. Deb 01:47 Oh, I've seen that. Beth 01:48 Adult coloring is super popular. Deb 01:51 Yeah, I've seen those books in multiple different stores. I never really see the markers to go with it. I think I gave Cathie one of those one year, and she was using the heck out of it. I think it's good for stress relief, isn't it? Beth 02:05 It is. I find that coloring really relaxes me. I use my pencil crayons and an odorless mineral spirit and that blends your pencil crayon and your colors together, so you get your shading and highlighting and you don't see the strokes in the pencil crayon. Deb 02:20 That is going above and beyond adult coloring Beth. I've ever heard of that, but it sounds fascinating. Beth 02:26 Will Sarah, I taught her and she said, "I don't think I'm going to have the patience to do this." Next thing I know she is winning a contest. When she went back and as an adult, there was a contest going on, she won a contest. Deb 02:41 What? Awesome Sarah, congratulations. I love it. Well, what else is going on anything? Beth 02:48 Not really. Deb 02:49 Okay, I wanted to touch on a couple things before we get started today because we've been talking about our love for the outdoors throughout our episodes. So, I wanted to ask you what you like about it? Beth 03:01 Well, right now in the fall. It's nice to smell the fall air. It feels very relaxing as we were talking earlier about relaxation, that's what it gives me and I think it gives you peace, too. Deb 03:15 Oh gosh, yes. absolute peace. I love that. Great description Beth. Well, do you remember when we were growing up? There were a couple of folklores out there that spoke of the Loch Ness Monster and Bigfoot. Do you remember those? Beth 03:30 For sure. Deb 03:30 We're going to talk about Bigfoot today. Beth 03:32 We are?! Deb 03:33 Yes, we are. For our listeners. Bigfoot is also known as Sasquatch. I know you've heard these words, Beth. So, I'm trying to put this into context for you and our listeners. The meaning behind Sasquatch is defined as a wild man. And if you've seen any pictures of Bigfoot or Sasquatch, you can see that it's much larger than the average human being. Beth 03:56 It sure is. I watch it on TV. Whenever I see an episode on Bigfoot. Deb 04:01 Cool. You watch those shows often? Beth 04:03 Yes, because I believe in that kind of stuff. Deb 04:06 I was going to ask you Well, let me just tell you that Bigfoot or Sasquatch has been cited mainly in North America specifically to the western regions in Canada and the United States. So, I'm thinking, Beth, that we are safe from Bigfoot. Beth 04:25 Oh, thank goodness. Deb 04:28 I don't know what you've seen on Bigfoot, but it's in the western region. We're in the Eastern Region. I wanted to throw in there that Bigfoot is also known as Yeti or the Abominable Snowman. Think back to Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer. Beth 04:43 I watch it every year. Deb 04:45 The difference between the identifiers, I suppose are that Yeti is over in the Himalayan Mountain region, which separates Asia from the Indian subcontinent. I don't know if you've looked at the map lately, but I looked at that today because I wanted to make sure you and our listeners were getting a good history lesson today. Beth 05:05 I think I need it. I haven't read my map lately. Deb 05:08 Do you know where Mount Everest is? Beth 05:10 I was thinking it was in the States. Where is it? Deb 05:12 It's in the Himalayan Mountains. It separates China from the Indian subcontinent. Beth 05:17 Oh. Deb 05:18 Believe it or not. This would be something I'm familiar with. Because I told you before I've read that book Into Thin Air. And it was about mountain climbers that got stuck in a huge snowstorm. Of course, me being me. Whenever I read anything historical. I have to look stuff up at the exact same time that I'm reading it and that's how I knew it was in the Himalayas. I'm sure I learned that way back in the day, but you know, over time you don't remember these things, Beth 05:45 Especially at our age. Deb 05:49 Oh goodness. Before we get started since we were talking about camping, do you ever hear anything outside your camper at night? Beth 05:56 We hear coyotes. Deb 05:57 Nothing else? Nothing lurking around the trees or anything? Beth 06:01 Not from where we are. Deb 06:02 Alright, today we're going to talk about Theresa Ann Bier. This is a story about a 16-year-old girl who went on a camping trip and according to her companion was taken away by Bigfoot himself. Beth 06:16 That is really crazy. Deb 06:18 It is, it gets a little crazy Beth. Let's start by talking about Theresa's early life. She was born on April 16, 1971, to Shirley and David Bier, in Fresno, California. Just as many cases before her, Theresa grew up in a highly unstable environment. Her mother, Shirley, suffered from mental illness and David suffered from PTSD from the Vietnam War. So, I know that's got to be tumultuous to a small child growing up in that kind of household. Theresa was abused as a child and mostly by her mother. For example, when Theresa was only three years old, Shirley took Theresa's leg and wrapped it around one of the slats in her crib and twisted it until Theresa's leg was broken. Beth 06:25 Off awful. I don't even know how somebody thinks to do something like that. Deb 07:17 I know. What's your earliest memory? Beth 07:20 When I was roughly two and a half to three years old when dad was stationed in Germany and we live there, I have a couple of memories from that like when dad took me in a wheelbarrow and pushed me along with turnips in it. Deb 07:35 Do you have a picture of that? That sounds so cute. Beth 07:38 I don't know. I'll have to look. Deb 07:40 Ah, well, I wanted to jump in and just say that I remember being around that age as a toddler being in the crib because Cathie and I shared a room pretty much our entire life. But when she was in the big girl bed, I was still in a crib. And I remember specifically, I would say somewhere around the same age that Teresa was, I remember scooting out of that crib and getting in the bed with Cathie. I cannot imagine. I never fell out. I never hurt myself. But I cannot imagine having my leg wrapped around that slat. That is so horrific. That poor, poor child. How do you do that? Beth 08:20 Exactly. Very weird. Deb 08:21 Another time. Theresa suffered broken ribs by the hand of her mother. Obviously social services at this point had been called in and Theresa, along with her siblings, were eventually placed into foster care for a small amount of time. Shirley and David eventually split up; I can imagine why. And Theresa ended up being passed around between multiple family members for the next couple years. First, David, her father did try to take Theresa back for a little while but by this period of time he had eventually remarried, and Theresa's stepmother wasn't very receptive of taking her in. Beth 09:03 That's so common. Deb 09:04 It is. I've never been a stepparent. So, I don't know what it's like to take a child in. But I will say I know what it's like to be thrown into a stepfamily situation. And in our case, we were not the Brady Bunch Theresa's stepmom would often lock the refrigerator and proceed to sit down in front of Theresa all while eating whatever she wanted to eat out of the refrigerator, just letting Theresa watch. That is child abuse. Beth 09:30 Yes, it is. For sure. Deb 09:32 Theresa was eventually passed around. to various family members, including her great grandmother then onto her Uncle Johnny, who was apparently married to a prostitute at the time. How about that? Beth 09:44 Not good. Deb 09:46 No. Well, their living conditions obviously were not the greatest and Johnny's wife would often make Theresa babysit her boys while she went to go turn tricks around the neighborhood. Beth 09:57 That's horrible. No mother figure there. Deb 10:01 No, absolutely not. Johnny was not overlooked, by the way. He was well known enough to have a nickname amongst law enforcement. He was often referred to by the Fresno police as blind Johnny. Not sure what that means because I really couldn't read too much into that and he often received and resold stolen goods out of his home. Uncle Johnny also reportedly molested Theresa at some point and, get this Beth, allowed some of his friends to do the same thing from time to time. Beth 10:33 Oh my gosh, that is so sick. Deb 10:36 It is and oh my gosh, poor Theresa. One of Johnny's friends was named Russell Welch and he went by the name of Skip. So, for the duration of our podcast today, Beth, I'm going to refer to Russell as Skip. He was an outdoor enthusiast just like us, who had a healthy obsession of Bigfoot, just like one of us. So much so that he claimed to have seen the creature himself. Numerous times, Beth, during many of his trips up into the mountains camping. What are your thoughts on that? Beth 11:11 I don't know. Was he on drugs? Deb 11:13 Are you reading ahead? Beth 11:14 I'm not reading ahead. I promise. I want everything to be fresh so you can get my real reactions. Deb 11:22 I love it. Listen, I'll get into that in just a little bit. But I will say that skip was a 43-year-old man. Do you remember how old Theresa is? Beth 11:32 No. Deb 11:33 16 Beth 11:34 Okay. Deb 11:34 Skip was 43 and lived off food stamps and disability checks. Honestly, there's nothing wrong with that. That's what those programs are there for. So, I'm not dogging that he's living that way, but Beth, he was also addicted to meth. Which might explain like you inferred that some of the tall stories that he had come up with. I will say a side note, I had to look this up because I had no idea that meth was this old, did you? Beth 12:03 No. Deb 12:04 I thought it just came around probably within the last couple of decades. Beth 12:08 An interesting tale. We had just a couple kilometers from us, or perhaps two miles there was another apartment building. It had a big fire and the little bit of a explosion and apparently there was a meth lab being used in that apartment. Deb 12:26 Wow. I've had neighborhoods raided before for having marijuana in their basement and it's not legal here. Beth 12:35 It is here. In Ontario anyways. Deb 12:35 I had no idea, is it really? Beth 12:36 We have so many little stores where you can buy it in edibles. Deb 12:38 I have no idea. All right let's go back to this methamphetamine. According to the History Channel. Meth was introduced in Japan way back in 1893. Again, I had no idea. Beth 13:03 Me neither. Deb 13:04 Its street terms are also known as crank and crystal meth or speed. In early years, it was used to treat narcolepsy, asthma, and to help lose weight. Even during World War Two, Beth, meth was used to keep the military troops awake. But it was soon found to be very addictive, so it became illegal only in 1970. So back to Skip. He was a self-professed Bigfoot expert and often spoke with his friends or acquaintances of Sasquatch sightings in the Sierra Nevada Mountains located between the Central Valley region and the basin inside of California. In fact, Skip considered himself to be a student of the legend itself. Intriguing isn't that? Beth 13:54 Very. And stop using my word intriguing. Deb 13:57 Okay! I assume that this means that Skip researched Bigfoot as much as you and I research on our podcast. Over the Memorial Day weekend, which is the last weekend in May back in 1987, Theresa confided in her friends that she planned on going camping with the guy she just met. His name happened to be Skip. Remember, he's 43 years old and she's 16. Beth 14:23 Okay, Deb 14:24 I do want to mention that Theresa was diagnosed with learning disabilities and had a slow or immature mental capacity for her age. And I mentioned this because I really feel, Beth, that Skip had taken advantage of this to lure Theresa into the mountains. So he's probably embellishing the story of Bigfoot to get her attention. And I will say that I remember when I was growing up, I was quite mesmerized by that folklore, so wouldn't she be as well? Beth 14:52 Exactly. Deb 14:53 He talked in depth about Bigfoot, and I thought there was a couple different things that were worth mentioning about Bigfoot since I've given you the geographic location and the names behind them. I wanted to give you a little bit more information about the folklore behind Bigfoot. Beth 15:09 Yes, I'd love to hear that. Deb 15:10 You're the expert here. So maybe you can tell me if it's correct or not. According to Native American folklore, Bigfoot would abduct children or women if the opportunity presented itself. Some tribes believe that Bigfoot has a cannibalistic nature. In contrast, other tribes believe that Bigfoot is strongly motivated by love and very nurturing. What are your thoughts there? What do you know about it? Beth 15:37 I believe that it's motivated not necessarily by love, but it's nurturing. Deb 15:42 Okay. Back in 1924, a survivalist by the name of Albert Osman, a Canadian lumberjack, claimed to have been taken from his campsite in British Columbia by Bigfoot, and was held captive amongst the man beasts for six days before he was able to escape. Another man, a Nootka tribe member named Muchalat Harry also claimed to have been abducted by a large man like animal back in 1928. Presumably to become a suitor have one of the female members of the Sasquatch tribe or on the flip side to become their next meal. Beth 16:22 Liar liar, pants on fire. Deb 16:24 Is that little bit out there you think? Beth 16:26 Yes. Deb 16:27 Maybe he was on meth. Beth 16:28 Yes, I agree there. Deb 16:30 Well, Mushalat Harry said that they soon lost interest in him and let him go. Beth 16:36 Yeah. Deb 16:37 Well, let me just tell you this though. A Catholic priest named Father Anthony Terhaar went so far as to vouch for Muchalat Harry and stated that he had nursed him back to health for three weeks after Harry presented as weak and insane, so he just showed up out of the blue and Father Terhaar started caring for him. He also stated that during his treatment, Harry's hair had turned snow white, and he refused to ever leave his village again to earn his living as the trapper in outdoorsman that he was before his capture. So there might be a little bit of truth about that. Possibly, I don't know. Beth 17:18 I'm not sure. There may be something that got him really freaked out. But if there was, it certainly wasn’t being held by Sasquatch for all those weeks. That has never been reported and there have only been sightings. Deb 17:35 That is so true. You have a great point there. Realistically, when was the last time you ever heard of a Sasquatch sighting? Beth 17:42 It's been a very long time. Deb 17:44 I don't think I've heard of one since I was a kid. My thoughts with that are that when we were growing up, we still had a lot of outdoor play in the woods, and we really used our imagination. Today, there are so many distractions, and Bigfoot was a folklore that we considered during our upbringing. But today, I'm not so sure because it's been a really, long time since I've heard about Bigfoot being cited. All right, the plan for Theresa and Skip was to go out to hunt in the Shuteye peak, an area that Skip bragged of often citing Bigfoot himself. And I wanted to mention that before this trip, Skip's own daughter, Chandra, stated that Skip had visited her on June 5th. Now remember, this is right after the Memorial Day weekend, which is the last weekend in May. And shortly thereafter, Chandra had seen Skip before his outing with this girl. He did have a girl with him and Chandra states that she was somewhere around Theresa's age. Looking back, Chandra does highly believe that it was her. Chandra states that she told Theresa to stay away from her father because he had a history of luring young girls into the mountains by offering drugs. Beth 19:04 Wow. So, the daughter knows, eh? Deb 19:07 Yeah. A 17-year-old girl by the name of Michelle Ryan told authorities that she had previously been lured into the mountains by Skip with stories of Bigfoot. And during her trip with Skip, Michelle believes that she was drugged. However, she had a little bit of foresight and for some reason she had taken a couple of male friends along and she believes this is what saved her life. I don't know how long she was out there, but she did have people with her so skip wasn't given any opportunity. Beth 19:39 Good. Deb 19:40 We're going to kind of backtrack just a couple days before Chandra was interviewed on June 1, 1987. Uncle Johnny received a call from Theresa's school, stating that she had not shown up that day. He thought that this was a little odd because he had just seen Theresa that morning getting ready for school. Naturally, he thought she was skipping, told the school officials that Theresa was home sick that day, and figured that he would probably take care of Theresa himself when he saw her. Beth 20:09 She was going to be in trouble. Deb 20:11 Yep. Have you ever skipped school Beth? Beth 20:13 Only once in my life. And I felt so guilty. I skipped the last day of school before Christmas. Break. Everybody did and during the holidays I ended up telling on myself. I told Mom. Deb 20:29 Did you get in trouble? Beth 20:30 No, because I was honest. And I told her I would never do it again. And I didn't. Deb 20:35 Okay. Beth 20:35 Did you skip? Deb 20:36 I honestly didn't skip until my last month of my senior year. I was a good girl too, you know. Beth 20:44 Nice one, Deb. Deb 20:45 Johnny spent the next several hours looking for Theresa himself and discovered that she may have gone off with his buddy, Skip. No pun intended, eh? By the end of the day around 9:30 that night, Johnny eventually reported Theresa missing and I'm glad that he did that Beth. Okay, I'm going to go ahead and talk about the excursion that Theresa and Skip went on. As it turns out, Theresa had taken off with Skip Welsh on June 1, 1987. And they eventually made their way up into the Sierra Nevada Mountains and set up camp in the Shuteye Peak. Like I had mentioned, this is about 25 miles or 40.23 kilometers northeast of Bass Lake. For those listeners who know that area, I don't but I wanted to throw that in there so people can visualize. Eyewitnesses stated that Skip Lured Theresa into his camping trip by his charismatic personality and those stories of personal encounters with Bigfoot. Skipping forward to June 5th, the day that Chandra had been interviewed, Skip resurfaced and told friends that Theresa was last seen at 7:20pm, four days earlier on that day that he took her up into the mountains. One eyewitness stated that Skip had shown up at her house likely high on something and stated that he did indeed take a girl up into the mountains but a satanic group had kidnapped her. Beth 21:03 Yes. That's crazy. Deb 22:31 Well, if he's on drugs, Beth, I'm sure that he had hallucinations. Beth 22:41 Yeah. Deb 22:42 While the satanic group still had Theresa in Skip's presence, he witnessed her physically changing into something that was all white in color. What, like a ghost? What the heck? Beth 22:56 Yeah. Deb 22:56 During this investigation, one of Skip's relatives stated that Skip had told them that a girl needed to be sacrificed to the devil, and she needed to be taken to Ghost Canyon up in those mountains. Beth 23:13 I don't know, do you report something like that? If not, then maybe they would just... Deb 23:19 Chalk it off as hallucinations and tall stories that he's used to telling, sort of like the boy that cried wolf? Beth 23:26 Yes. Deb 23:27 Or in this case, Bigfoot? Beth 23:28 That's right. Deb 23:29 All right. Well, obviously things weren't adding up and Skip was eventually arrested. Police use this opportunity to visit his mother's home in Fresno, California. where he was staying, and they came up with some charges to go ahead and arrest him on the spot. Beth 23:47 Yes! Deb 23:48 During his arrest, Skip spoke freely and openly about Bigfoot living in those mountains where he liked to camp. He also stated that these creatures were highly intelligent and knew how to stay hidden in the mountains. What do you know about your research? Are they highly intelligent? Beth 24:05 They have never actually been able to find one. They've only seen the footprints. And they would follow them and there would be a little sighting but from very far away, and they're very skittish of people. Deb 24:17 Okay, like a feral cat. Beth 24:19 Yes. Deb 24:20 Like I have on my front porch right now that I'll tell you about another day. Beth 24:24 Stop feeding it. Deb 24:25 Oh, that's not going to happen. But Skip went on to say that he communicated with Bigfoot frequently. Okay, cool. Probably because every time he hallucinates, he's probably having that conversation with himself. Beth 24:38 Never thought of that, but that's the point. Deb 24:40 I mean, if you're going to see something like that. I don't know, it's crazy. When questioned about Theresa's whereabouts, Skip stated that he had dropped her off at school. Now okay, going in a completely different direction, right? However, he changed his story to say that Theresa class to spend the day with them up in the mountains as originally motivated, I suppose, right? Once they arrive to their destination, Theresa immediately ran off into the woods with a friend. These are just the little things he's coming up with. Satanic cult. Teresa just took off as soon as they got there. To find a friend? Really? Up in the mountains? Beth 25:20 Yeah, that doesn't sound plausible. Deb 25:23 Another version of the story that Skip told was how Theresa left on her own to track down Bigfoot herself. Because that makes a lot of sense. I have a young teenager out in the remote area of the mountains that she is not familiar with. I'm just going to say oh, Skippy Do, you are tripping. Beth 25:41 Right. Deb 25:42 Skip also mentioned that he and Theresa had gone for a hike in the hopes of sighting Bigfoot, but the two of them became separated along their journey. Is this is when she ran off to find her friend? Beth 25:54 Probably. Deb 25:55 Skip then stated that Theresa had been abducted by Bigfoot himself. And last of all, Skip said that Theresa decided to stay up in the mountains to live with the nurturing Bigfoot and his tribe. Beth 26:09 That's where I chime in Liar liar pants on fire. I mean, so many different versions. He's digging his own grave there. Deb 26:19 Absolutely. Well, he said that was okay, because she would have been much happier up there in the mountains living with this super intelligent being. All right now we're going to jump over to the interview after Skippy Do has been arrested. Police listened to what Skip had to say about Theresa's disappearance. During his interview, Skip showed no emotion, but offered the fact that Theresa was never sexually abused on their outing. Why? That again, is random. Within hours Skip did take authorities up to the campsite where he said he had taken Theresa. The campsite consisted of a three foot by eight-foot area where pine needles were set on fire and were still smoldering when they got there. I guess my question is, how soon after his arrest did he voluntarily take authorities out to his campsite where the fire was still smoldering? Beth 27:20 Yeah. Deb 27:21 Several blankets were piled up in some sort of formation. A woman's purse, bra, t-shirt, and camera were all left at this campsite, along with a picture of Skip playing the guitar and some pictures of Theresa herself. Beth 27:36 How wholesome, having a photo of Skip playing a guitar. Deb 27:42 Sure, absolutely. Police are obviously smarter than that, because when they evaluated the scene, they concluded that this campsite was staged by Skip and believe that he had taken his Theresa elsewhere in the mountains at least 20 miles away. Beth 27:59 I wonder why they think 20 miles. Deb 28:01 I don't know. But I'm going to say I have to agree with the authorities here. It just seems like how convenient that there would be that campsite set up? But I mean, I don't know how they came up with the distance. Yeah, regardless, obviously they were not taking anything that Skip had to say with a grain of salt. Now as far as the aftermath, Skip was eventually arrested and charged for child endangerment and child stealing, which would give Skip a maximum of four years in prison. Beth 28:35 Good, good. Deb 28:36 And I wanted to tell you what child stealing was, Beth, because I had to go look that up to see what the differences were besides that and kidnapping. It's another word for abducting, which is in simple terms concealing someone from their legal guardian when you have no rights to custody. And it's very similar to kidnapping only it's considered a crime against a parent of the abducted individual and not the victim themselves. So, kidnapping would be the victim themselves. Child stealing would refer to the parents. Skip was released on his own recognizance. The child stealing charges were eventually dropped, as were all other charges. Any ideas why? Beth 29:18 I can't even imagine. Deb 29:20 Police wanted to save any evidence collected to recharge Skip in the future as opposed to avoiding double jeopardy. Beth 29:29 That's right. Deb 29:30 Now, all charges were dropped just three days before Skip's court date because again, local police didn't believe that they had enough to charge him and take him to trial. They did recommend and your one-year sentence if Skip would sign a waiver stating that they could come after him later if Theresa's body was located. Beth 29:50 That's unusual, isn't it? Deb 29:52 I think so. I don't know of anybody, criminal or not, I don't know if anybody who would sign a waiver like that. Makes no sense. Beth 30:00 Are you going to tell us? Deb 30:02 Oh, am I going to tell you if you sign it or not? What do you think? Beth 30:06 He probably didn't. Deb 30:07 No, he did not. Authorities didn't want to charge him and risk that double jeopardy. So no, he didn't sign it. And so, they ended up having to drop the charges. Beth 30:18 Ridiculous. Deb 30:19 Well, that basically is the story Beth, but I'm going to give you a little bit of feedback on when Theresa was last seen. She was wearing a white t shirt, blue jeans, and laced sandals. She had brown hair and hazel eyes, her front teeth protrude outwards, and she had a surgical scar on her lower leg due to that fracture that I had mentioned where Theresa's mother had wrapped her leg around that slat in the crib. She was five foot five inches tall and weighed 110 pounds. Today, Theresa would be in her early 50s. Skip died of severe coronary artery disease in March 1998 without ever being charged for Theresa's disappearance. He was 54 years old. I'm glad that he left this earth early. Beth 31:14 Yes, me too. It is a shame that he didn't ever get charged. Deb 31:19 And it's a shame that he never gave closure to the family. I just don't understand that. Beth 31:24 That's right. Closure is so important. Deb 31:27 Uncle Johnny spoke in later. Interviews how close he was to his niece. And he eventually died of cancer in 2008. So that's the story of Theresa Ann Bier. I'm going to ask you a question though that I asked you when we first got started, Beth. Beth 31:43 Okay. Deb 31:44 What would you do if you went camping in the woods and you heard a noise outside of your camper at night? Beth 31:50 I'd be so scared. But would you open the door? No, Deb 31:53 Not even for a bagel? Beth 31:55 That is a true story, folks! Deb 31:58 Okay, I'm going to stop you there, because I don't want to give anything away to our listeners. But if you go back to our very last episode, you will hear all about Beth opening the door for bagels at 2am. All right, that's the case of Theresa Ann Bier. If you have any information on Theresa's whereabouts today, you can call the Fresno police department at 559-621-2541 and reference the case number 8736264. Beth 32:30 Well, that was quite a crazy Bigfoot story, because clearly, it's made up case. Deb 32:36 Oh yeah. And especially with him having hallucinations and being on meth constantly. Alright, I understand where you're coming from on that, absolutely. Beth 32:45 So, Deb, what's your teachable moment for us today? Deb 32:48 I am glad you asked Beth. I mentioned during this episode that Theresa had confided in a friend just a few days before that she was going off with a 40 something year old man. Theresa was 16. I've said that a few times too, and really, I'm talking to the teenagers out there. Based on my experience, I know that there is a code amongst teenagers. A lot of the time they protect each other and don't tell adults what's really going on, even if they know that someone is going to be hurt in the interim. So, my teachable moment today, Beth, is to speak up. Be the voice and don't be afraid to tell an adult. Theresa never should have been allowed to go off with the ban more than twice her age. I don't think anyone was protecting her. But there were at least two or three people who did know that she was associating herself with ole' Skippy Do. They should have told someone way sooner, than maybe Theresa may not have come to Skip or, as he claimed, Sasquatch. I know what it's like to be a teenager, Beth. I still have vivid memories and to hide something from parents is not uncommon for most teenagers. But even at that age, I was ultra-responsible and always did the right thing. It's pretty much like a kid getting his hand caught in the cookie jar, like when you skip school that day. Repercussions are far less severe if you fess up and tell the truth instead of denying things and getting caught later. My point, Beth, is that if you know something's wrong, report it. I truly believe that if someone spoke up between Memorial Day and June first, the year that Theresa disappeared, we would not be recording this case today. So that's my teachable moment. That's a good one. Thank you very much. No problem. Beth 34:39 And that's a wrap. Deb 34:40 That is a wrap. Thanks for listening to Dying to be Found. Before we go, we would love for you to leave a review on your favorite podcast platform. That really does help us in the rankings. Be sure to follow us on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and Pinterest @dying2bfound. You can access our website, email, social media and storyline request form by clicking on our link tree account found in our show notes. If you like our episodes, consider buying us a coffee at buymeacoffee.com/dyingtobefound spelled just like you see our logo. Feel free to message us on Instagram and let us know how we're doing. With that, be sure to check us out every Thursday wherever you get your podcasts, and we will talk to you next week.